[Thunder]

Once again Marvin, I agree with you.

It's very important to understand fully what detachment means, and doesn't mean.
You hit it spot on.

[Treasur]

I found 'respect' was an easier aim than 'kindness' while I was trying to detach.
Not that this was always easy, but my 'kindness' could drift too easily into excusing the unacceptable (to me) or a kind of self-righteous 'nannying' when I would behave as if my h did not know his own mind. Which may have been true-ish, but it was disrespectful, arrogant and foolish to think I had the right to tell him what it was lol.

Respect looked like not lying (even if I was judicious with truth and started to say little), not doing things in order to hurt or shame him and ultimately respecting that he had the right to do what he thought best for himself. Including ending our marriage. It was a shame that he couldn't treat me with the same respect, but it was as it was.

I think respect is closer to deep love for me than kindness. And ultimately, when he asked me to let him go, I respected us both enough to do so. If some post-crisis version of my xh comes to see that as a loss or his 'fractured' mistake, then that too will be as it is. I had very little voice in how things unfolded. I think in a funny way treating my xh with respect was a mixture of rebellion and love in a way that kindness would not have been.

[marvin4242]

Treasur: great perspective. From my view respect has to start with clear boundaries between two people, and then it moves into detachment in the form that as you said you “let him go.” That is both emotional and physical detachment almost in embodied. And its very close to what I said to my sister in law at one time when she was confused, I told her I respected her sister enough to respect her wishes and let her go, even if she is wrong and in pain.

On another note I had a reality check on my own detachment yesterday. After 18 months of pretending I don’t exist my wife suddenly reached out and talked to (at?) me for 2.5 hours. I had not seen or heard her voice in 1.5 years, and it was interesting to see her. I was not distant, nor was I upset, nor was I happy. I did not feel connected, but I was not talking to a stranger either. She is still in pain and confused and agitated, but it was all hers. My energy level was even, and by the time the call ended nothing had changed in my life emotionally or in any practical sense. It was almost impact less. She even mentioned coming to visit, and I have already put it out of my mind.

Maybe this is an good acid test of detachment?

[Ggg4life]

Hi Marvan-

That is great you were receptive in kindness when she reached out.  Baby steps of peeking in and back into the tunnel.  That sounds like a healthy detachment on your part.  I pray you keep getting many more opportunities to pave the way.  Staying the course for yourself as you are doing, is beneficial to everyone in the long run.  Great job! God Bless!! GGG

[Treasur]

Well, interesting, Marvin. As you say, a test of your own detachment. And as you say, talking "at". (So I'm guessing your W's Me Me level was still upper quartile lol) And I guess possible too that detachment in the moment and detachment over the next few days might not be quite the same bc hey, we LBS cycle sometimes too a bit right? Normal.

Out of interest (if you want to share) was the 1.5 years previous NC from your choice or at the request of your w? And why did you agree to talk/listen? No judgment implied btw....we all learn here that we learn and adapt as we go  Did you feel she wanted anything from you which was a potential threat to your current level of detachment? Or indeed any of those sneaky little expectation beasties that sometimes creep up on us LBS lol.....

[marvin4242]

Out of interest (if you want to share) was the 1.5 years previous NC from your choice or at the request of your w? And why did you agree to talk/listen? No judgment implied btw....we all learn here that we learn and adapt as we go  Did you feel she wanted anything from you which was a potential threat to your current level of detachment? Or indeed any of those sneaky little expectation beasties that sometimes creep up on us LBS lol.....

Completely legit question, I documented my entire story over the first 1.5 years at another site. Brief version is I figured out very early what was going on, I went back into therapy, I detached (over time) and removed all pressure and stress and continued with my life while my wife was going through her various cycles (throughout BDs). I have remained as non reactive as I can and really have been living my life without any push or pull from what she does. I try to remain civil, kind, and will accommodate her unless it is crossing a boundary and/or is harmful to me.

Last BD was 1.5 years ago, after she had cycled back much closer and was showing a lot of signs of her old self. We had just spent 3 meetings at various places where she was much more herself. She was even back home and was saying things like “why did I think this place is so bad?” Then we parted ways and I went to LA for a trip and she went back to visit with OM. We met back home after two weeks. She arrived after me, late one night. Then she avoided me for a day or so. When I ran into her the next morning I asked “hey do you want to grab dinner” and she responded with “no I think we should go our separate ways, so plan whatever you want for dinner.” And she was back to full on shark eyes and complete reversion to complete disassociation. The trigger may have been a cousin who was her age committing suicide during that time, or it may have been a squirrel who looked at her funny. But I simply asked her “is this what you want, because its not what I want.” She said yes but was completely acting strange. She went shopping and got me things after that, she said she wanted to say goodbye to the “house” but when I asked “can I say goodbye before I leave” she said “sure if you want.” So complete MLC clown logic. From that point she avoided me completely, would not talk to me by voice, would only send text as she wanted. My basic approach for contact is I match her exactly wherever she is. Because of my own set of skills to detach I didn’t need NC to protect myself, it is rather keeping a complete boundary whenever we do interact. If she is superficial I remain superficial. A few times she has cycled closer to self awareness and has talked I have matched her exactly and only answered questions asked. I have never offered advice, not told her what is going on, or what she should do. Well almost never, there was one time where she was being very mean and I called the OM a hippy! We have had numerous times where there have been long conversations, which really was her just talking and me listening. Sometimes for hours. There were a couple of times where my old wife returned and we actually had deeper conversations (but not about what is going on with her). And a lot of just ranting/venting from her and me smiling and nodding.

So brief version (hah) is it was her choice, she just disappeared. I never pushed it. When she texted I would respond, but almost always she ended the brief trail of conversation. So this was her doing. I have no agenda, no plan, no dream that this will work out. This is just someone who I care for deeply, who I shared 23+ years with, and will help if and when a day comes that she seeks it. No expectations. My life has moved on without her and that is the direction its headed.

[9393roo]

This thread could not come at a better time for me as the last 2 months I been been focusing on my own detachment.

Detachment for me has come in many, many layers in the last 4 years.  Just when I think I have been detached I find myself caught up in the antics of my H and start to cycle with him.  At BD I think I was the poster child of what not to do.  I did not detach, I did the opposite.   I hyper attached.  I've come to realize now how much our marriage was based on a codependency. My thinking back then was if I detached I would lose a part of me.  I continued to let things happen.  My H is a clinger live in and never really monstered.  Most of his replay took place in another state that he traveled to 2 times a month.   He had set up 2 different lives.  He would come home and tell me he loved me (Sometimes) and go back to the OW and his other life.  I lived 2 years in complete pain believing all of his lies because after all we were one person and he wouldn't do that to me.  He became so different.  I was lost and thought that if I detached I would be even more lost.  BD #2 happened 2 years in and I realized then I had to start detach before he ruined me.  Since that time I have taken the steps.  Baby steps, but steps. 

Detachment for me has not just been about detaching from my H but attaching to myself.  It has been a long and sometimes painful journey to take a look at myself as a separate person.  I've had to go back into our 32 year marriage and dissect things and change myself and my thinking.  I think Treasur wrote on Kits thread something about figuring out what belongs to me, what belongs to my H and what belongs to God,  This is what I'm really trying to do right now.   
I want to tell all newbies that you will figure out what detachment means when you are ready.  It has taken me 4 years to get to a place today where I'm practicing it daily and it has brought on a whole new level of peace and understanding.   It's a work in progress that I don't think should ever end even if there is reunification. 

I want to thank everyone who is sharing on this site.  I continue to learn things often. 

[Treasur]

Detachment for me has not just been about detaching from my H but attaching to myself. 

What a very wise and useful way to see it, Roo. Thank you for sharing that.

[Helpingme!]

I think in beginning for me my mindset of detaching was all physical. I wouldn't speak to her. I wouldn't touch her. Well with a live in that didn't work. I still road the emotional rollercoaster of when she came back and forth like a yoyo .

It became an emotional detachment. That works for me.
She could do and say her crazy crap and got to where I didn't care. I looked at everything she did and said as fake. Only way I made it.

[9393roo]

You make a very good point Helping.  There is a huge difference between physical detachment and emotional.  I thought I was detaching by staying away from him when I could and stopped doing his laundry  .   I was stuck in trying to give myself physical detachment with a live in MLC'r  for quite awhile, emotional detachment has taken much more time and work!