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My Story I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
OP: February 28, 2019, 07:28:45 AM
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But I have to take into account that at some point, if/when I can move forward, the courts will say, "But you did have contact with him at certain points..."   

Anjae, under the normal circumstance, I fully agree.  Be civil and be the bigger person.  Absolutely.
I read the above and thought about the legal implications.   

How realistic is that above scenario, Nas, in your situation and in your state?

I'm really not sure how realistic it is, Acorn.  Which is why I'm hesitant to risk it.

When the dog got very sick, he sent me an email in which he claimed he hadn't contacted me for a year because his phone went through the washing machine.  He also said he can't email me unless he goes to the local library because his laptop died. (I guess he lives in that house with OW and 3 kids but no computers, tablets or working cellphones?)

Then when the dog died, he posted to Facebook but didn't tell me.  He was so solely concerned with his own grief over the dog, he didn't even consider me.  When I messaged him the next day, he promised to send me the dog's collar and then never did.

When my mother died, I contacted him in a moment of weakness.  So I really don't know if/when he would have reached out about that.  But my sense is MIL told him about my father and who knows if he reached out on his own or if she "suggested" it or told him to.  Is it a change?

Not really.  He also reached out briefly immediately after he heard I had cancer, and also wished me a happy birthday (from the dog) a month later.  Then he disappeared completely, stopped checking his email and changed his phone number. 

So he does do the bare minimum expected of a human being.  I don't think the fact that he does just enough to be able to say he did something is anything to be celebrated, though. 

Again, it would be different if he hadn't moved so far away with my dog and then made the unilateral decision to euthanize the dog and not think about my feelings enough to even tell me before posting it on social media.

It would be different if he hadn't moved in with his mom rent free and then moved away to OW without a care of where I would live or if I was okay.

It would be different if he hadn't paid me the agreed upon spousal support for only 2 months in 2016 and then quit and not paid me anything since.

It would be different if he had maybe checked in once or twice even to just ask how I was doing during my scary, difficult cancer journey - instead of disappearing and changing his phone number.

It is also of note that the last email I sent him, the one that he didn't read for 10 months, was the one in 2017 where I sent him a note on the 20th anniversary of his father's sudden death (his father who, incidentally, died while with his OW after leaving H's mother.)
So he knows how it feels to lose a father suddenly.  And it makes sense to think hearing about my father's sudden death triggered memories back to the day he learned of his own father's sudden death.



To go back to your cousin, Nas, did she mention her exH? If she did, did she give any idea that she messed up or shouldn't have let him go?

She has only mentioned him in regards to her 2 daughters who still don't talk to her, when she said, "Somehow [ExH] is a saint and I'm the bad guy."
So no, she didn't show any sense of wishing she hadn't let him go.  But again, he got remarried and there's no chance of reconciling, so my opinion is even if she feels it was a mistake, she'd have to be a lot further ahead in her growth and healing to admit she made a mistake, knowing he's moved on.

Previous thread:
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10641.150
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#1: February 28, 2019, 07:37:23 AM
Attaching...

And you can change the title of your thread later if you want...
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« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 07:43:27 AM by UrsaMajor »
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#2: February 28, 2019, 07:40:03 AM
Welcome to your new thread, Nas.   :)

I'll be following. 
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#3: February 28, 2019, 07:45:56 AM
Nas,

I am here - can't say much as I am not in your shoes, just that I can understand not wanting to read the full message... you are right, leave it as long as you wish. There is no need to go pain shopping.

Certain popular apps for communication have a means of knowing whether a person has read a message or not, but there are ways to NOT allow your interlocutor see whether you have read it. My boss uses this subterfuge ::) - it's in the settings - I don't know if it is specific to iPhones or not. My h. has taken to turning off his "last seen", but I get the blue ticks when he reads something. I am an open book, you can see last seen and when I read messages :P

(((Hugs)))

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#4: February 28, 2019, 07:48:59 AM
Welcome to your new thread, Nas.

I am not seeing the legal problem with saying thank you to his condolences. There has been previous contact between the two of you and he didn't sent any money.

Therefore, the not sending money does not seem to be a legal reason for not saying thank you. Otherwise, it would also be a legal problem to have sent him a message the day after your dog died.

Sorry, I thought it has been him who had contated you when your mum died. If you contacted him when she died, again, what is the legal problem with saying thank you to his condolences?

You contacted him before, he has e-mailed in the past = there has been contact.

The money issue already existed when that other contact happened, including when you contacted him when your mum died. Why is it different this time?

Is it so horrible to say thank you? I understand that you may not want to read the message right now. But that has nothing to do with reading it and saying thank you being a legal problem.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#5: February 28, 2019, 07:54:52 AM
It's different because - at least the way I see it, and maybe a lawyer can chime in with an opinion - the more time that passes and the more communication we have about things other than my need for him to pay/legal issues, the worse position I am in to actually get anything out of him.  So it's in my best interest to cease communication until I am in a place where I can respond to his message AND also follow up on legal issues.  And that time is not right now, because it always includes frustrating foolishness on his part that I can't deal with now while I'm dealing with cancer, the death of both my parents in a 3-week time span and complete emotional exhaustion.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#6: February 28, 2019, 07:58:46 AM
I did consider responding by saying thank you and then adding that it's been an extremely tough time and I need him to do right by me.  But again, I'm too emotionally exhausted right now to handle his potentially uncooperative or foolish response.  Best to say nothing for right now.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#7: February 28, 2019, 08:11:44 AM
Things are different here from a legal point of view. Here, 2 years or more without communication is grounds for divorce. I am not up to give Mr J one more silly reason for him to run to divorce court. So, a once a year e-mail, be it by him to me, or mine to him, sorts that matter.

Also, here, it is important to always be civil and reply to things like condolences. It means that, despite the situation, there is no resentment and that one is being correct.

Different countries, different laws.

I did consider responding by saying thank you and then adding that it's been an extremely tough time and I need him to do right by me. 

That could go several ways. He wouldn't say more. He would fire tons of crazy MLC stuff.

But again, I'm too emotionally exhausted right now to handle his potentially uncooperative or foolish response.  Best to say nothing for right now.

Take time for yourself, Nas.


Take time for yourself, Nas.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#8: February 28, 2019, 08:15:38 AM
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#9: February 28, 2019, 09:51:58 AM
Nas, I understand after all the emotional stuff you have gone through being completely and emotionally exhausted.

YOU are what's important right now, not him.  Being that exhausted is not good for you.  You need what ever strength you have right now to get through your treatments.
Do what ever it takes to concentrate on you right now.

Everything else can wait until you are stronger.

Hugs

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#10: February 28, 2019, 11:02:18 AM
Following along
 

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#11: February 28, 2019, 03:13:50 PM
Hi Nas....just sending a hello your way and wanted to share what a big deal this is that your parents have died and your uncle.....I had a therapy session today, a rather intense and painful one and all of a sudden my thoughts switched from "him" to my mom and dad and how much I miss them...My dad died in 1999 and my mom in 2009 so I was a bit surprised by that. But is tells me that my thoughts and memories, although buried and although I may think are "resolved" are still there.

I am exhausted after this session today and will give myself a time to rest...everything you are going through is such a huge stress!

Re his messages to you...just adds to the "confusion" and fills your head with more "what should I do, what shouldn't I do?". You will decide and whatever you choose to do is the right thing..it truly is.

Take care.
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I think that it’s the Messenger app makes it easier to just let it sit unopened because for all he knows, I don’t check that app all the time. After all, the people close to me have my email and phone number and I have theirs. It’s not my fault he couldn’t send me a text that I would get immediately. It’s his fault. He chose to not give me his new phone number.

Xyzcf, I used to find that the therapy sessions where I came away the most exhausted were the ones that ended up being the most beneficial for me. I hope it’s that way for you as well. I’m sorry to hear about your parents and I know that you miss them just as much today as in 1999 and 2009.

I was messaging a bit last night with MLC cousin. Apparently after I left my uncle’s wake, her exH showed up with the one daughter who speaks to her, and also with her youngest daughter who doesn’t speak to her.

She said it was hard. She hugged her youngest daughter and tried to talk to her and said it was very stilted conversation and then another cousin came and interrupted and after that her daughter pretty much stayed away from her.

Her exH didn’t recognize her! He was standing right next to her and turned to her mother and asked where she was. She said that was crazy. She does look so much different because she’s SO thin, but they were together for 21 years and he didn’t realize he was standing right next to her. Crazy!

I talked some about H. I told her about how he told me he hadn’t contacted me for a year because his phone went through the washing machine. She immediately responded “It sounds like he lost his emotional awareness.” She can see it clearly in H, more than she can see it in herself even. She said when he “gets it back” it will be powerfully overwhelming. That was her experience.
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I think I forgot to share also that when MIL texted me the other night, she for some reason at the end of her message added “You look great, by the way. 💕”
Lol. Thanks MIL, make sure you keep telling your son that!!
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Nas,

I can tell you that, when I went back to the US for D29's High School Graduation, I hadn't seen xW1 for 15 years.... She walked up to me and said Hello and I didn't recognise her at all..... She went the OTHER direction from your cousin... So it is quite possible... and strange...
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Nas, my lovely girl, you are quite right to not bother with his message right now. At the moment you just have too much to process so I formally give you HS permission to do anything that makes it 1% less hard or 1% better!

Objectively the fact that he sent a message is a tiny glimmer of normal human. Makes f all difference to you right now much like your mils inane efforts to communicate. But it is a small act of normal. Perhaps that will turn out to be useful down the line. who knows?
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Thanks, UM and Treasur.
And you’re right. It was HIS choices that have left only one open avenue of communication and if I choose not to travel that particular avenue anymore and he really wanted to get his message of condolence to me, he would find another way. People who have known each other intimately for 20 years don’t communicate solely over Facebook Messenger. Strangers do.
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Hello,

I am so sorry for your loss. It seems so that so much that happens to us and every year it seems to pile on more. Our energy level each year is like frosting a cake. Every year they give us a bigger cake to frost but no more extra frost. We find our energy spread thinner and thinner.

As the others have stated, your h chooses his method of communication. It is simple, he doesn't have to give you anything, and he knows if you read the message. I agree not to rush to read the message. It sends a strong message of detachment and moving on.

I also agree that you need to do something small to bring a little joy in your life. Something that will spark a little comfort to your hurting heart. Please take care of yourself and you are in my prayers.

((((Hugs))) and more ((((Hugs)))

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Thanks, Ready.

I just realized this ignoring of his message comes on the heals of my accidentally sending him a message saying "thinking about every choice I've ever made" and then telling him that message was meant for someone else and him replying "Easy to do."

Well, I have lately been thinking about every choice I've ever made.  And every choice that's been made without my knowledge that has affected my life.  So no surprise thinking about those choices has led to me not wanting to read his message atm.

I messaged him when my mother died - a kneejerk reaction to the shock.  But he's not my go to person anymore when times are bad.  So messaging him about my mother was a mistake. 

Maybe I will eventually read his message and say a simple thank you.  Maybe I won't.  But if I do, it won't be until all of the chaos of my father's death, dealing with my father's things and my current cancer/diagnostic issues are all handled.

I am moving in with my other brother and his family within the next week.  Very stressful as I am so broken and exhausted and really don't have the energy to pack and move again, but it is what it is.  They don't have room for me and it's going to be difficult, but I'm grateful they'll be taking me in and I hope I can find a decent full time job (with good health insurance and with an understanding company that will allow me time off for treatment....is that even feasible?? does a job like that exist????) soon and live on my own again.
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Really glad Nas that you are moving in with a bit of your family that if I remember right love and appreciate you. Xxx
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
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Glad that your brother is taking you in. Hope the move goes smoothly

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Nas, don't you worry about a thing.  Your brother is taking you in out of love, not convenience.
It will work itself out...but some evil part of me hopes your other brother has to carry guilt for what he has done.

I would take in a family member whether I had room or not, as I'm sure you would.
It's what family does.

Hope the move is smooth and you settle in pretty quickly.
Are you still close to your doctors?
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Thanks, guys.  To clarify, the brother I'm moving in with has NO room for me.  I'll literally be living in a tiny, tiny room in their basement.  (The brother I've been living with lives alone in a 4 bedroom colonial.) So this move, while I'm grateful to not be out on the street, is going to be very difficult. 

Speaking of the brother I've been living with,  I don't think he feels guilty.  And I've heard from no less than 7 people who attended my mom's services who have all commented that his girlfriend (the 29-year-old) was "not very friendly," "seemed like a b!tc#," "doesn't seem to like anybody" and on and on.  She didn't make a very good impression. 
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I suspect the other brother is either a narcisstic jerk or an MLCer and feels no guilt at all. No empathy = no guilt. Also = pi$$ poor quality human but hey ho.

A tiny room in a basement in a house where you are loved and respected beats the pants off where you were, Nas. I'm sure you will find a way to make the space feel good and to contribute to your brother's family in other ways. And tbh, it might just be a lovely thing for you to feel less alone and have a bit of normal life going on around you. And a little patch of predictability. Not to be sneezed at imho. Xxxx
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Do MLCer's ever pick the cream of the crop?  Of course the family sees right though her.   ::)

Nas, I'm not saying your brother will feel any guilt right now, how can he when he is kicking you out while you struggle with cancer, but if he is truly in a crisis, he will someday.
And that guilt will be huge.
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Glad to know you're moving in with your other brother and his family.
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Nas, I'm so glad to hear you're moving in with your other brother even if it is a tiny room in the basement. I'm sure if he had a better room, he would have given you that, too. At least this relieves you of having to make the money immediately for rent.

I agree with the others that a tiny room in a place where you are wanted is better than where you are right now. It gives you a break in the stress of having to find somewhere. You can make it your own. Little things can do that, a pillow case, a candle, a picture on the wall. This can be a sanctuary for now.

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A tiny room in a basement in a house where you are loved and respected beats the pants off where you were, Nas. I'm sure you will find a way to make the space feel good and to contribute to your brother's family in other ways.

Nas, I would take in my sister and her entire family if they needed it and she would do that same for me. And I am sure you would as well. Heck, you would probably take in your brother who is booting you out now. More a reflection of him. But I hate that it causes you stress. I am hopeful that this new situation with your older brother, while not ideally comfortable, brings you peace and happiness.

The comments about your other brother's girlfriend remind me of the movie Shallow Hal. How he saw everyone's "inner beauty."  And b/c of that that he saw his bff's girlfriend as truly unattractive, when in reality, she was a super model. Inner beauty, or lack thereof, ALWAYS shines through.

Nice of MIL to text that. Whatever her motivation, always ice to receive a compliment.

You are amazing Nas!
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Thanks everyone  :) ❤️

 In regards to something Ready said earlier about my not responding being seen as detachment by H, I tend to wonder if detachment is even noticed buy them at this far in. I’m just about four years in. So I don’t think at this point they see anything we do or don’t do as detachment or pursued anymore. I mean, at a certain point even they are crazy brains must realize that it has been so long.

Not sure if I’m making sense.
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They do still see it as persue many years down the road. However, one day that may see it as persue and go monster, the next think nothing of it and be nice.

Not certain they notice detachement. The impression I have since I cut contact more and more with Mr J is that he notices contact, but does not seem to realize how much time goes between contact.

He may know it has been X years, but does not tend to understand what it X years really mean. Their sense of time is warped.

During my MLC I don't recall noticing if anyone detached. I knew X years had passed, but had no notion of what exactly it mean. As you know my crisis was short and mild. Would say in the longer, deeper crisis sense of time is much more off.

Also, there are good parts of the crisis when one is only wrapped on one self/MLC things. Nothing else matters. Tunnel vision, remember? Tunnel vision inside a dark tunnel filled with fog.
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I just think the disconnect between changing his phone number and avoiding divorce or doing right by me and yet also sending a condolence note as if that’s “normal” is beyond crazy. We’re almost 4 years from BD. He knows what he’s doing. My best educated guess is that his mother texted me, then contacted him and now he’s offering condolences because his mother told him to and then he can tell himself he did what his mother told him to do so he’s a good boy.

Plus, the death of his father over 20 years ago obviously profoundly affected him, considering his Facebook profile picture has been a picture of his father since shortly after he left me in 2015. His “journey” or whatever it is has so much to do with his father.
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I read it.
It said “[MIL] told me about your father. Sorry to hear. I know that you weren’t close but both parents in such a short time period is tough. I’m sorry for your loss.”

 First of all, my father left when I was 12 so we were not close but reconnected and have been slowly working on our relationship since around 2010. We hadn’t come very far and had a lot more work to do but it’s not like he was completely out of my life the way he had been for many years during my childhood.

It seems very minimizing and as if to say that because we weren’t close it’s probably not as bad but still tough coming on the heals of my mother’s death.
Obligatory condolence so that he can say that he did it. It was as detached and devoid of emotion as I was expecting though. I got more heartfelt condolences from complete strangers.
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I'm sorry, Nas.
Common decency and empathy chip is obviously still turned off.
To be fair - while still wanting to punch him in the face a bit if that's ok - I suspect the deluge that would happen if he turned it back on would probably shake him to his boots particularly bc of what led up to BD.
I guess if you feel inclined you could mentally award him 1 point for trying a bit?
And I suppose the tough truth for those of us with vanishers is that life has moved on and they chose to become strangers didn't they? My xh has no idea about anything that has happened in my life since late 2016. He never asked and I stopped seeing any point in trying to tell him bc he didn't care.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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 It is surprising that he even sent condolences. But also ridiculous, considering that he has been avoiding me and avoiding divorce and yet sending me a condolence message as if that’s a normal thing to do.

At the risk of having goner accusing me of playing the victim or trying to garner sympathy, the loss of both of my parents in the last three weeks has been a massively huge and traumatic time. Three weeks ago I had a mother and a father, today I have neither. They are both gone. Any human being with a beating heart and half a brain can see how brutal that is. Since he was already sending a fake condolences, he could have at least faked it better and said something a little more heartfelt than the obligatory “ I’m sorry for your loss.”

 Considering he was so affected by the loss of his father over 20 years ago that his Facebook profile picture since he’s been in MLC has been a picture of his father, you would think he would have a bit more empathy.

But as I said, it was as devoid of emotion as I expected. He actually showed a bit more human-mess when I messaged him about my mother.
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Tbh, Nas - and I consider myself well-battered by grief - I can't even imagine how brutal it must be to lose both parents and your uncle, and be part of a grieving family, while packing to move and having uncertainty about your health. Even writing it is overwhelming.

So, you read it. It was a fail on his part. Just more of the same circus.
But not your circus, dear girl. You have your own jabbering monkeys to feed or beat away right now.
Please do the best you can to be as kind to yourself as you feel able to be xxxx
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Nas, I'm sorry your H's message was so unauthentic. It's very possible he did do it to please 'Mummy.' They are just such useless humans whilst in this crisis. I guess it's just as well you read it and got it out of the way.   I sense that he is just wearing the mask that fits the moment. It's not normal to not feel genuine consideration for someone you've lived with for a large chunk of your adult life. Someone you loved and shared your most intimate moments with. For me this is the hardest part to accept.

And yes, considering the death of his own father 20 years ago is clearly still affecting him since he has his father's photo as his fb profile since BD, you would think he could be more sensitive. Yet even the comparison to his own pain can't bring out the good man in him. He's locked in his pain. Maybe it is too close for comfort for him. Maybe he would rather not think of you losing your father since he hasn't yet coped with his own father's loss.

Nas, try not to think of him right now. Not easy I know, but he's not himself. Try to focus on you and the people who are worthy of your attention at the moment.
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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So I had let his message said unopened for days.  Then today I finally read it and just replied “thank you“ which he read immediately hours ago. Now I just got a message from him that says “how is your health?“

I have no idea how to answer. It is interesting to me that he keeps asking me how is your health and never says the word cancer. I don’t know if I should tell him about the recent bad news. Unless I can parlay that into a conversation about getting him to pay me some money.
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Awe Nas...you see they do not ever really forget us.....when he asks about your health, I do think it matters to him...but while he is in crisis, well...they just do so many stupid things.

If I had a dollar for every time I wanted to tell my husband something but I learned, how I learned, that telling him anything would in the long run cause me grief....

But my story Nas is not your story...he would have been the first person you would have turned to, but now?

As I sit here shaking my head...such a mess!
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Now I just got a message from him that says “how is your health?“

Tell him the truth. In a simple manner with simple words. MLCers don't get more than a few simple lines/words. Some people are afraid of using the word cancer.
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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

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So the actual message says “it’s hard. I know. I’m so sorry.” And then another message that says “how was your help?” I’m tempted to answer very honestly.
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I’m tempted to answer very honestly.

Why not? What is the worst that can happen? Monster? No answer? You're prepared for those. And even if there is monster or no answer something can stick to be processed later on.
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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

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I guess maybe I’ll sleep on it.
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I second giving him factual honesty, along with anything you feel regarding your situation. As long as you do it expecting nothing, and not trying to guilt him into anything, he asked.

"I found out..."insert facts here.  Follow up with  "I don't mind telling you I'm scared."  If appropriate. This is what you would say to anyone who asked, would you not?

Of course, this is only if you can handle him ghosting you, or monstering at you. If you have any expectations, you will likely be disappointed.

I so wish there was some other thing than "I am so sorry for all of your losses". Nothing seems to come close to expressing how much I wish none of this happened to you.
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Nas, I agree his condolences was detached and devoid of emotion, but why not be honest with your reply about how you are, if that is what you want to do?  What is it going to change?

Just do what ever you want.  Say what ever you want.
This is all about you now.  You choose!
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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I hope you slept ok, Nas.
I guess you could do:
- short but factually honest
-short but fake polite
-ignore the question
- short but really honest to test if he will now settle things with you financially/legally
- oh yes, I guess you could do a big rant about how he is a PoS but I'm assuming you are too tired to bother  :)

What does your gut say is best for you right now?
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Nas, I agree with those who say give him an honest answer about your health. I like the 'I just found out that...I also like Offroad's suggestion of adding 'I don't mind telling you I'm scared.' It makes it human without laying guilt.

I would not mention money just because that tends to send them running, and that isn't helpful to you at all. They feel that all we want from them is money, so might be best to wait on mentioning the financials.

Ideally, if your answer gets a further question from him, it might lead to where you're living and that might be the time to include you have no money since you haven't been able to work full time because of your treatment.

It seems to me he chose to send this second message. The condolences might have been to please his mother, but asking about your health is for him. I would treat him like a friend. You would tell your friend.
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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I replied with a simple “everything’s really rough right now.”
That basically sums it up. Doesn’t flat out mention money but let him know things are rough. And then later down the road if any of these conversations are used against me or him in court to try to say that I never asked for anything, I have my past conversations where I flat out asked for money and then everything else is left vague enough that I can say I was just psychologically exhausted. If that makes sense.

 I chatted back-and-forth with my MLC cousin last ( in between being verbally abused on another thread lol).
Her take was interesting. I didn’t tell her anything about his relationship with OW,  not even the fact that she was an old girlfriend from high school etc.

So knowing nothing about either of them really, this was my cousin’s take:
“I doubt either of them have a moment of peace   She’s stalking him to keep him away from you and his mommy syndrome is feeding her ego and round and round it goes”

Very interesting.  She referred to it as a “narcissistic-codependent freakshow.“ LOL


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Sounds like a good response, Nas. Honest but not too honest. Maybe a tiny seed which might be useful down the line. I agree actually that his question was more than a platitude bc he didn't have to ask. But I'm sure you are exhausted so more crazy or unkindness is simply not what you need.

Funny how your MLC cousin (bit like lawprofessor's friend J) might help you understand things you couldn't before. Particularly bc you loved her so much and knew who she was before. Probably easier to see the MLC wood for the trees when it isn't our spouse. I'm sure she is right about the freak show....tbh she probably knows more about that than we do...I know a bit of you has always seen it sometimes as your h 'winning' somehow but when I read over your past threads, I just see someone who is running hard from consequences that will inevitably eventually catch up with him. Even if we all wish sometimes we could make the karma bus run a bit faster lol. Sadly it sounds as if it took a few years but caught up with your cousin full on.

Have you moved into your new place yet? What are you doing today to take care of yourself and feed your spirit a bit of cake?
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Oh, how I would love some “spirit cake” LOL. And I like that phrase, I think I’m going to try to incorporate it more into my daily conversation.

 Today my brother and sister and I will be clearing out my fathers apartment. So it should be quite a heavy day. Which is why I’m glad I answered was just the one line response to H. It was not a response that I expect him to be able to reply to and today of all days, I would not be able to even engage in any further back-and-forth.
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Oh my, so a physically and mentally not too easy day, my friend?
My thoughts are with you. I hope you find unexpected joys as well as sorrows. Please pace yourself though.
And yup, 'cake for your spirit' - should be on your to do list as soon as you can  :)
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Nas, best wishes as you clear out your father's apartment today. A difficult day both physically and mentally. Like Treasur said, I hope you might find an unexpected joy.
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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Oh my God, I said everything is really rough right now and he wrote back “I’m sure it is. Hang in there.” Is he firetrucking serious
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Why respond to me at all? If he cares so little and has so little empathy for what I’m going through and takes no accountability for it, why is he even messaging me in the first place? Why didn’t he just stay disappeared like he has been
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Who knows why he just doen't stay disappeared like he has been. Who knows what is going on with him. Maybe he is having a moment of clarity. Maybe he giving first steps towards the end of the tunnel. Maybe it is something else.

Time will tell.
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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

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 Nas I totally get your frustration. Bc well, your H like mine is an idiot. I was told somewhere along the line, I think by Handpuppets, that these little communications from these guys are likely “bids.” Basically they are throwing something out there in an attempt to communicate. I know it’s silly, but it’s probably the most he can do at the moment. I’m not excusing his behavior in any way. Just some insight I was given. These mlcers are a huge mess. Imagine a 12 year old trying to comprehend the enormous loss you’ve suffered. Then imagine what that 12 year old might say, if anything. Old H has left the building and was replaced by new and unimproved Man-child H.

My heart is with you today my friend. We waited a full tear before going through our Moms things. And that hurt like he!!.  You are so strong. Not that it helps the pain any. But wow. Hugs friend.
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Me 49
H 47
S13
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

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As Anjae says who knows. Could be a little touch and go to see your reaction. Maybe he does care even though he still needs to be in the tunnel at the moment.

If you still care it’s a good opportunity to show yourself.
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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I agree with others. He is trying, but he is emotionally incompetent. He wants to say something...for whatever reason...but doesn't really know what to say. And when you have spent years lying and hiding, simple honesty must feel like climbing Everest.

Kit is right. Tough day today but I hope you and your siblings can at least support each other.  :)
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Thanks, guys. I’m ignoring his crappy response. No need to keep this conversation going.
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  • How I long for your precepts! Psalm 119:40
Thanks, guys. I’m ignoring his crappy response. No need to keep this conversation going.

You are right! I sometimes get these inane comments too ::) Totally self serving when you think about it.
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M 58
H 58
S 28
D 25
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

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Just wanted to check in and send you a long distance hug x
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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  • You can't please everyone. You are NOT a pizza!
Thanks, guys. I’m ignoring his crappy response. No need to keep this conversation going.

Exactly. No need to reply to vapor.... Of course he "knows everything is rough" because he hasn't bothered to do what he is obligated to do....

Seriously...

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Me - 57, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 13, D - 9
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Hi Nas, thinking of you today. Hope you're ok.
Sending you a big hug.
Milly
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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Thank you to all who have checked in.  I appreciate your support more than you know.

I have to echo what Acorn posted on her thread.  There has recently been some particularly egregious behavior and some extremely serious unfounded allegations made against "certain posters," particularly Anjae, of "cyber bullying...and cyber bullying leads people to suicide."  This allegation is too extreme to not be addressed. 

Like Acorn, I no longer feel as safe as I once did to post here.  Even more than the fact that nasty verbal attacks go unchecked, I'm deeply saddened and more than uncomfortable with the idea that any strong or bold opinion expressed by myself or anyone else could put me at risk of being repeatedly vilified and subject to such extreme allegations by another member.

I wish you all the best and thank you for your immense support of me, especially over the last year and a half as I've battled some pretty heavy issues.

xx
Nas
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I understand.

Love you, Nas.  If it's ok I will PM you from time to time to see how you are doing.
You will remain in my prayers.
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Nas, I posted to both of you on Acorn’s thread. I’m devastated about this decision but I understand and it’s tempting to follow you both out the door.  Enough is enough.   Especially when we start losing the best of HS.  So sorry it’s come to this.  You will be in my thoughts and prayers  :'( 
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"This too shall pass.  It might pass like a kidney stone but it will pass."
"Don’t blame a clown for acting like a clown.  Instead, ask yourself why you keep going to the circus."

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I’ve unlocked my thread so as not to hijack anywhere else.
As this is my thread, I will use it as a place to muse on my feelings about compassion versus enabling.

I believe that many people here show tremendous compassion to others. Compassion to me does not equate to “Oh you poor thing, your MLCer is terrible” etcetera.

Compassion is caring enough to tell the truth, even when the truth might hurt.
Compassion is helping another lbs grow by shining a light on some of their behaviors that appear unhealthy.
Compassion is sharing our own experiences in the hopes they might help others.
Compassion is presenting alternate views of a situation to ensure an lbs doesn’t get stuck in a misguided belief that their MLCer is acting in any way other than what benefits them.

In other words, to me, it’s actually an act of deep compassion to disagree, question and present alternative lines of thinking.
It’s an act of compassion to highlight unhealthy behaviors that will only continue to cause someone pain.

We all have or will have moments of deep despair, and of course we come here hoping others will say “I hear you. I’ve been there. You will get through this.”
Compassion does not have to equal enabling. In fact, it shouldn’t.

My opinion is that encouraging, and if need be, forcing another to look differently at their situation and hold themselves accountable is one of the most compassionate things a truly caring person can do for another.

There seems to be a trend lately of labeling people judgmental when they present an alternative view, ask questions, give 2x4s or address unhealthy patterns.
I know some will say it’s always been this way. But lately it seems much more prominent.

We can’t gelp others if we’re not willing to speak the sometimes harsh truths.
And we can’t be helped unless we’re willing to accept hearing the sometimes harsh truths.

Just my thoughts for this Saturday morning, fwiw.
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Well those are some darn good thoughts!

I agree with you.   :)
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Me too  :)
And I also believe that there are things that are simply too painful for most newbies to hear so they need a gentle touch bc mostly when we first come here our skin is very thin indeed.
And people have different characters and different goals, so sometimes it helps to alter our own style a little to help them hear us.
And compassion also means accepting that people have the right to ignore what we say either for now bc they are not ready or forever bc of whatever reason.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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No, it was not always like now.

I agree with all you've said, Nas.
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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

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I hear ya girl. Watching a train wreck right in front of us triggers some serious fixing needs in many of us. Sadly, some trains have to fully wreck before they are able to start to repair. I always love your advice and know you come from a place of understanding and compassion. Which is amazing in light of what you’ve been through. Anyway, I appreciate you.  ;D
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Me 49
H 47
S13
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

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Nice to see you back, Nas.

You are a deep thinker, and I have always valued your ability to remain dignified and compassionate through difficult situation and with challenging people.

And I certainly see the wisdom in your recent post.
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"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

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Hi Nas...I hope that you are well.

I think, that there are times when a person is not able to "listen" or will not do anything about their problems....I am thinking of a drug addict or alcoholic or some other type of addiction that the person will continue on their march towards death no matter what. Even when loved ones try, they are often not successful in convincing that person to get help....


So, eventually, it is time for the "helpers" to bow out...the addict will either reach a place where they have no choice but to change or not.....an online site like this is not capable of being everything to all people.

I think HS has done an incredible job of helping 99% of the people who spend some time here.....we are not going to help eveyone though.
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« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 12:08:33 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Great post Nas.
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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Completely agree with you, xyz. I think we are on the very same page.

I guess my point was more that especially when someone demonstrates that they aren’t able to hear well meaning advice, the worst thing one can do is coddle them and not only not tell them hard truths, but actually validate their victim mentality.

When one is in a bad state of mind and catastrophizing, it’s not helpful to them to reinforce “yes, you are a victim of your MLCer.”

That’s what I think, just my opinion. There’s a difference between offering compassionate understanding and enabling a person.

I think I’m back to chemo brain babbling nonsense so that’s all from me today. 😂
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« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 12:27:18 PM by Nas »

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So glad to see you back. Love reading your insightful posts!!
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M 53
H 48
M 12 years; together 17 years
D18, S28
Summer 2014 - H wanted to runaway
9/14 I was diagnosed with Breast cancer
11/14 Surgery for BC..3 day after my father dies
11/14 BD 2 days after surgery. I have no passion for you.
2/15 moved out
Dated each other all year affection back on..
3/16 moved home
7/16 Diagnosed with Breast cancer again
8/16 No affection again. I knew something was wrong.
9/16 Another surgery for Breast Cancer
9/16 BD 11 days after surgery discovered -EA with much younger W from Work. That is over. I think he has meaningless flings. Work is his mistress
10/16 I filed for D (financial reasons)
10/16 I moved out.
10/16 Now off and on vanisher
5/17 Divorce final

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Quote
the worst thing one can do is coddle them and not only not tell them hard truths, but actually validate their victim mentality.

I agree Nas with this.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Thanks Nas. A reasonable voice. So welcomed.
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Sada
Married 13 years, together 23
Apr 2014: PA discovered, ow 22 yrs younger
May 2014: "I love her & she loves me"
("But I'll always love you the most")
Jun 2014: Left home to live w OW
Aug 2014: Back home. "Sorry, made mistakes".
Late 2015: Ow2 (a couple of dates I think). Monster
  returned for several months 
Early 2016: Health scare, including major surgery, resulting in fog lifting some more.
Today: H progressing thru mlc positively.Mostly cooked, has remained home and reconciling
Arguments & disagreements very infrequent
Enjoying our time together

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Great post, Nas.  So glad to see you back. :)
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Hi Nas,

VERY well said...

Coddling, enabling, and winding people up to inflame their already raw nerves is NOT compassionate or caring or supportive.... It is actually quite the opposite..... It is more often destructive and self-serving...

After all, is it helpful if you go to the doctor and tell the doctor "Doc, it is REALLY painful when I stick this fork in my eye!" and the doctor says "Yes, it is and it is ALL the fork's fault.  What an AWFUL fork!" ?  I think not... It is MUCH more helpful if the doc looks at you and tells you "Well, you have the choice - live with the pain and the resulting damage or STOP STICKING THE FORK IN YOUR EYE!"
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BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
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Divorce final 30 August 2019

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Apparently I was blocked on a thread for suggesting that a former MLCer frame her story in terms of what happened to her, rather than generalizing about all MLCers, as each person is individual.

I guess that makes me a judgmental, simplistic, narrow-minded and bitter person who doesn't want to help fellow LBS.
So in that spirit, I'm kind of starting to think: f**k this.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#80: August 08, 2019, 06:28:47 PM
I’ve had an extremely distressing and disturbing day and didn’t know where to put this, so I figured I’d unlock my mostly dead story thread.

I wanted to talk about the subject that started on the old timers thread about the differences in our situations and about empathy and about a lot of things. I’m not even sure where to start. But maybe some of you have general thoughts.

I just want to say that we all hurt from MLC. And then we all have individual lives outside of here where things can either compound our stress or add to our healing and comfort. Most of us have a little of both. Some of us have more of one than the other. And like everything in life, it’s all subject to change at a moments notice m.

But you know, emotional pain is subjective. We’ve all seen and marveled at those rare lbs who get bded and seem to be a okay within a short time. For most of us, the grief lingers for a long time and takes a lot of work to get through.

I have never and will never minimize the grief of an lbs. Earlier today it was suggested that I was a $h!te stirrer and a bully, and that hurts me. Because we all come here to heal. And I do believe we’re here to help each other move forward. So I have looked back in my posts and found that on multiple occasions I have spoken of lbs being responsible for their own feelings and that no one can make you feel anything. If you feel something, it’s a clue that you might need to do some introspective digging.

I’ve touched on that many times. I can see it just looking through my post history.
And I can also see that when I have brought up that topic, the word “bully” or something similar gets used somewhere in the same thread.

So I’m genuinely trying to figure out the correlation and I’m really hoping to stoke discussion about this.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#81: August 09, 2019, 12:08:03 AM
I just wanted to say Nas, that I'm sorry you've had such a distressing day, but I'm glad you unlocked your story thread...

I've also been thinking about some of the things that came up on the Old Timer's thread...

I have pretty much only been a 'lurker' here so far, but reading along I've found that I really value what you write, and I feel your care for your fellow posters in what you write, and it is also clear to me the care you take with how you say things and the words you choose. While doing that though, you don't turn away from hard questions or things that are difficult to approach. I often feel that in these situations you strike a perfect balance between being truthful and being sensitive.

It will be interesting to see what discussion might open up here...

Xx Ever
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#82: August 09, 2019, 04:00:29 AM
Quote
I have never and will never minimize the grief of an lbs. Earlier today it was suggested that I was a $h!te stirrer and a bully, and that hurts me. Because we all come here to heal. And I do believe we’re here to help each other move forward. So I have looked back in my posts and found that on multiple occasions I have spoken of lbs being responsible for their own feelings and that no one can make you feel anything. If you feel something, it’s a clue that you might need to do some introspective digging.

I’ve touched on that many times. I can see it just looking through my post history.
And I can also see that when I have brought up that topic, the word “bully” or something similar gets used somewhere in the same thread.

So I’m genuinely trying to figure out the correlation and I’m really hoping to stoke discussion about this.

I'm glad, Nas, that with your usual straight-speaking grace you have raised this discussion. Why? Bc I think there are things some of us can learn and use in how we connect and play with other humans when we are healing. And it isn't always a clear path.

I speak only for myself.
During this bit of my life at various times I had obvious triggers. Some made sense to me, some not so much but they were visible to me if that makes sense. So, even at my worst I knew that vomiting on your shoes bc you are afraid of getting on a train is not the normal me lol.
Other feelings were obviously a direct link to a similar experience. I remember a bit over a year ago for instance how my mind went haywire when my new landlord took a few days to respond to a text from me. I knew I wasn't thinking rationally and I knew why bc I had been ignored by my then h.
Once I understood how PTSD affects your brain, I could/can even understand that nameless floating sense of being afraid in the world. And understanding it means I can observe it rather than being unconsciously gripped by it.

But I think there are other feelings triggered less obviously and less consciously.
Those are the ones that I don't always see at the time or sometimes don't see in myself but see in others or I don't see it until someone is kind enough to challenge me in a respectful way.
These feelings for me are less like triggers and more like echoes maybe.
And I don't always own the feeling bc I don't always see it for what it is, how my experiences have changed some of my lens. Maybe forever, maybe just for a while.
My skin is undoubtedly thinner though.

If I read a news story about a h killing his wife, it is no longer a distant unimaginable thing to me.
If I see a small girl bounce along holding her father's hand, it makes my heart twist in my chest.
If I see people being needlessly cruel, it makes me sad and very angry.
If I read here stories of LBS doing well, I feel a mixture of envy, delight and shame.
If I read stories here of LBS who are suffering or alone or frightened, it is hard not to see them as me and me as them.
If another poster suggests that I am not doing what they think I should be doing (even if I agree with them) or why my situation is x or y, I feel judged and found wanting, guilty or as if I have failed at some damn job I never applied for lol.
If I read someone stuck in an unhealthy loop that seems so frigging obvious, I feel frustrated and irritated by them sometimes bc I feel frustrated by my own times of loops.
I hate it when someone here hurts another poster, is challenged and chooses not to simply say sorry bc my h ignored every plea I made to simply be kind, to stop hurting me bc he didn't care and I was bewildered by that.

I don't always understand those kinds of feelings but I feel them and sometimes I react to them or carry them with me for a while.

And almost all of these feelings are not how I was before this experience or they are very exaggerated versions of how I used to feel.
And tbh I am getting tired of living with such a watchful eye on my own thoughts and feelings.
And that I know, but can't always remember, what it was like to not be how I am now.

I honestly do believe that when we resist strongly, when we feel the need to defend ourselves or justify ourselves, here or in RL, it is bc something has unknowingly and probably unintentionally hit one of those echoes. What others say or do might be useful to me; it might not. But sometimes I see it through the filter of my own echoes.

 I hope I heal by being as honest as I can be about the echoes and as gracious as I can be that if I don't always see my own echoes, it is quite unfair to expect that others should or that they are responsible for my feelings. They are only responsible for their own actions and echoes. But some of the heat that pops up in discussions on HS and words like 'bully' or judgements about more/less pain or standing vs not...I suspect these are echo moments for others too sometimes. Even projection sometimes. And some posters are more or less ready or interested in looking at that.

My echoes are solely my responsibility. And trying to be more aware of them is part of getting a life with less unconscious echoes and more conscious choices imho.

I also think that part of coping with a life up-ended, often for reasons that make no real sense to us emotionally, is that we gradually build a sort of story. One that kind of makes sense enough to us. And our survival can become probably a bit invested in that particular story, whatever it is. I know I have reacted with quite big emotions and sometimes quite negatively when someone has said something to me that challenges the reality of that story. In my case, that my h obviously was not who I thought he was and never loved me as I thought, or a comment about vanishers, or a comment about how I shouldn't be here because I was divorced or bc my xh had remarried for instance.

Doesn't mean that there was not some rationale in what they said, or that they meant to hurt me, but it felt as if it was attacking my own imperfect glue at the time. Sometimes as my perspective has evolved of course these things no longer feel like attacks....sometimes though they do or they feel like someone else needs my story to be the same as their story so their story feels more solid?
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« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 04:18:15 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#83: August 09, 2019, 05:10:43 AM
So much thoughtful discussion here. Thanks everyone.

Two things they stand out for me are:
The echoes - when we are feeling hurt or judged, what is it from our situation, or, perhaps even more probably, our distant past, that is stimulating these feelings?  Only sometimes  do I read comments that I think were designed to hurt.

The other is that deeming others judgmental or bullying may occasionally have some truth, but just as often, they may be  an avoidant, passive aggressive retaliation (especially when the accusation is made in general terms and it addressed non specifically) and a good way of avoiding mirror work.
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« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 05:17:09 AM by Nerissa »

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#84: August 09, 2019, 06:41:56 AM
Yes, I think this is good discussion!


The echoes - when we are feeling hurt or judged, what is it from our situation, or, perhaps even more probably, our distant past, that is stimulating these feelings?


This is very important point, I think, in relation to what Nas was talking about re 100% responsibility for one’s emotions. 

Aren’t we the sum total of our experiences?   Each person carries a unique set of predictable emotional responses and red buttons that get pushed in response to external stimuli, to state the obvious.  Then, it could lead one to surmise that denial of ownership of our emotions is to perhaps minimize one’s unique personal history. 

We feel the way we do because of who we are.  That is not to deny the catalyst that evoked such feelings.  Give due where due is.


The other is that deeming others judgmental or bullying may occasionally have some truth, but just as often, they may be  an avoidant, passive aggressive retaliation (especially when the accusation is made in general terms and it addressed non specifically) and a good way of avoiding mirror work.


I unreservedly agree!  Because I did it myself toward H...

I occasionally see in real life the use of ‘bullying’ and ‘judgemental’ as default catch-all terms employed in order to blame and could be viewed as an example of avoiding personal responsibility for his/her own words, behaviours and, above all, emotions.  I am the prime example of this at the early stages of LBScrisis. 

I hope the discussion continues. 

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« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 06:48:31 AM by Acorn »
My first thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8164.150

My reconnecting thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10524.msg699615#msg699615

Live-in MLCer

Feb 2015: BD. 
Oct 2015: ILYBINILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#85: August 09, 2019, 11:06:11 AM
Nas I will confess that many of your posts have had the initial effect of stirring something in me. And I tend to read into them my own experience. And I confess that sometimes I have felt they were hurtful. To me. But I always re-read them, and then I see really where you are coming from. And it is always a good place. I know you enjoy the debate. And you are good at it. But I am conflict avoidant I fear.  And sometimes those discussions scare me a little.  :D

But, I am truly happy that you are part of my journey. I have learned so much from you. Mostly about myself. LOL. You may not realize it, but you have had a profound effect on my own growth.

Quote

If I read a news story about a h killing his wife, it is no longer a distant unimaginable thing to me.
If I see a small girl bounce along holding her father's hand, it makes my heart twist in my chest.
If I see people being needlessly cruel, it makes me sad and very angry.
If I read here stories of LBS doing well, I feel a mixture of envy, delight and shame.
If I read stories here of LBS who are suffering or alone or frightened, it is hard not to see them as me and me as them.
If another poster suggests that I am not doing what they think I should be doing (even if I agree with them) or why my situation is x or y, I feel judged and found wanting, guilty or as if I have failed at some damn job I never applied for lol.
If I read someone stuck in an unhealthy loop that seems so frigging obvious, I feel frustrated and irritated by them sometimes bc I feel frustrated by my own times of loops.
I hate it when someone here hurts another poster, is challenged and chooses not to simply say sorry bc my h ignored every plea I made to simply be kind, to stop hurting me bc he didn't care and I was bewildered by that.


Oh boy can I relate to this!

See, this is why I love this forum. It is good to be challenged. Yes, there is a time to be treated with kit gloves. But there is also a time to grow and look into that mirror and fix ourselves. We are a tough lot. Tougher than most.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#86: August 09, 2019, 11:12:14 AM
Do you know, Kit, you are so right! I had just forgotten it.
We mostly come here metaphorically bleeding out, but you're right, we are a tough lot
Thank you, needed that reminder today xxx
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#87: August 11, 2019, 02:47:23 PM
Hi Nas (et al). I had popped onto HS for the first time in ages the other day, and visited a few threads, including the one you had posted that sparked this discussion. I wanted to take a few days to think about it, and am so glad to see the wisdom shared by others here over that time.

I find I don't come to HS all that often any more. The reasons are many-fold, not the least of which is my life is very busy at the moment. And my 'MLC-er' situation has changed not one bit. I don't think I'm particularly helpful to most folks because I am at a different stage in this process and others express what is closer to my experience so much better than I (I'm looking at you, Treasur).

And because when I look back, I spent so many hours and hours and hours on HS sometimes getting caught in discussions that hurt me more than they healed.

Make no mistake, I have met wonderful friends here, and I have no idea where I would be without the forum and the community we have here. But I have come to believe that it is possible to lose sight of what we members can, and cannot, do for ourselves and each other.

Yes, we all have experienced something similar in the end to our marriages, in a way that most did not see coming and did not want.
And yes, we are all experiencing grief.

BUT - no matter the similarities, each and every one of us has experienced something completely individual. No one else's marriage was my marriage. No one else's situation was my specific situation. No one else is going to process their grief like I am processing my grief.

So each of us has something in common -- and at the same time completely distinct. And there, I think lies the rub.

A month or so ago, my pastor did a 3 week lesson on grief, including a lesson on grief and community. I took so many notes, some of which I'll share here, because I think they contribute a lot to this topic that pops up on the board.

Starting with the note that "posting on social media is grief searching for companionship". I think that is the essence of what brings and keeps so many here. Something I need to remind myself of, not just on HS, but when I see people posting in other forms of social media.

From a list of things one should NOT say to the grieving:

"I know how you you feel". No, you don't. each situation is unique due to the nature of the relationship. So we have much in common, and we can relate, but none of us know how another feels. And I think pushing back against that is the start of many a kerfuffle here on HS.

"Everything happens for a reason". No, not everything that happens is for a reason.

"Well, at least............" This is a generally the start of something not good.  Because is dismisses the griever, and initiates comparison. And that is definitely not good.

Grief is a normal, deep response to loss and we experience more than one loss through this process.

One of the challenges in western societies is that we see grief as a problem to be (quickly) solved as opposed to an experience to be journeyed through. And that journey can take a long time.

Plus, we tend to be problem solvers, we speak up with solutions rather than just listening when others are processing their grief. (And processing it. And processing it :-)). Even though we recognize much of what we are experiencing is grief, we are still uncomfortable with it, in part because socially we have not learned how to lament.

I personally think the root of so many of the internal storms on HS are created in that space between where what we have in common (the loss) bumps into how we each must individual journey through that loss. And added to the mix is that when and how we each become reconciled to our grief also differs, even though we don't generally 'get over' it.

Even if we have the company of friends, or a community ostensibly 'gets it', grief is still incredibly, relentlessly lonely. 


   
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« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 02:51:10 PM by Onward »
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#88: August 11, 2019, 04:51:35 PM
Hi Nas (et al). I had popped onto HS for the first time in ages the other day, and visited a few threads, including the one you had posted that sparked this discussion. I wanted to take a few days to think about it, and am so glad to see the wisdom shared by others here over that time.

I find I don't come to HS all that often any more. The reasons are many-fold, not the least of which is my life is very busy at the moment. And my 'MLC-er' situation has changed not one bit. I don't think I'm particularly helpful to most folks because I am at a different stage in this process and others express what is closer to my experience so much better than I (I'm looking at you, Treasur).

And because when I look back, I spent so many hours and hours and hours on HS sometimes getting caught in discussions that hurt me more than they healed.

Make no mistake, I have met wonderful friends here, and I have no idea where I would be without the forum and the community we have here. But I have come to believe that it is possible to lose sight of what we members can, and cannot, do for ourselves and each other.

Yes, we all have experienced something similar in the end to our marriages, in a way that most did not see coming and did not want.
And yes, we are all experiencing grief.

BUT - no matter the similarities, each and every one of us has experienced something completely individual. No one else's marriage was my marriage. No one else's situation was my specific situation. No one else is going to process their grief like I am processing my grief.

So each of us has something in common -- and at the same time completely distinct. And there, I think lies the rub.

A month or so ago, my pastor did a 3 week lesson on grief, including a lesson on grief and community. I took so many notes, some of which I'll share here, because I think they contribute a lot to this topic that pops up on the board.

Starting with the note that "posting on social media is grief searching for companionship".

I think this is true of any social media.  People post selfies on Instagram and comments on Twitter and Facebook looking for validation or to know someone is out there.

From a list of things one should NOT say to the grieving:

"I know how you you feel". No, you don't. each situation is unique due to the nature of the relationship. So we have much in common, and we can relate, but none of us know how another feels. And I think pushing back against that is the start of many a kerfuffle here on HS.
I think we've probably all said a well-meaning "I know how you feel" a time or two in our life.
 In certain cases, I think it's okay.  A woman at my cancer center said it to me recently; I didn't bat an eye.
 I believe she does know how I felt in that particular context we were talking about.
"I know how you feel" in regards to having a marriage be turned upside down - not literally because we all feel different the way snowflakes are the same but all different.  But yes, I believe everyone here knows how I felt to be BDed.
But "I know how it feels to be homeless because I volunteer at a soup kitchen" or "I know how you feel to have cancer because I've known people with cancer" - no, sorry, you don't, not in any way, shape or form.
 I just had this situation because my brother and SIL who have been my biggest support and caregivers have just proven to me they don't know how I feel.  I won't get into specifics, but it made me realize yet again that no one can have any idea until they go through it.

Just like I have no idea what it feels like to go through this with kids or even what it feels like to have kids period. Etc, etc.


"Everything happens for a reason". No, not everything that happens is for a reason.
This is my least favorite saying in the world and makes me want to scream anytime I hear it.
 To me, when most people say it, it's dismissive, like "Well, I have no idea what to say and I'm uncomfortable and don't want to have to talk to you about it, so I'll just tell you everything happens for a reason."


"Well, at least............" This is a generally the start of something not good.  Because is dismisses the griever, and initiates comparison. And that is definitely not good.
Again, I think most people say this with good intention, trying to cheer up the person or show at least something positive.  But I agree, it can lead down a road of comparison.  I don't think anyone in the conversation about stress levels said to anyone else, "Well, at least you..." in a dismissive or divisive manner. I know for my own part, I simply stated the stone cold facts of my situation and how it is for me, that I miss my home, that I do look at people who sleep in their own beds each night and think how much easier it would be if I too were sleeping in my own bed and waking up to my own stuff, that not having any money and being sick have made things considerably more stressful and harder to come back from.



I personally think the root of so many of the internal storms on HS are created in that space between where what we have in common (the loss) bumps into how we each must individual journey through that loss. And added to the mix is that when and how we each become reconciled to our grief also differs, even though we don't generally 'get over' it.
I think the root of so many of the storms is also the internalizing and personalizing of general or broad statements.  When I say I feel a certain way about my H or I'm not going to respond to him or I am going to do or not do something in regards to my situation, it's part of my truth and my story.  I can't control, nor should I be expected to be responsible for, anyone else's response to what I say about my situation.
 And I'm responsible for how I respond to someone else's statements about their own situation.  And believe me, many times over my time here on HS, I've found myself feeling uncomfortable things in response to something going on in someone else's situation.  I'm sure we all find that at times.


Even if we have the company of friends, or a community ostensibly 'gets it', grief is still incredibly, relentlessly lonely. 
I agree.  It is lonely.  No one of us knows what anyone else is really feeling or going through, but we one thing we all do have is the right to tell our own truths and our own stories.  Others might react with comfort that someone feels similar or discomfort that someone's view differs from theirs, but - and I've said this for probably over a year on here now - as long as we're not out to purposefully hurt or blatantly insult another, HS should be a place where we can come to tell all of our unique and individual stories.


 
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#89: August 11, 2019, 05:10:37 PM

Even if we have the company of friends, or a community ostensibly 'gets it', grief is still incredibly, relentlessly lonely. 
I agree.  It is lonely.  No one of us knows what anyone else is really feeling or going through, but we one thing we all do have is the right to tell our own truths and our own stories.  Others might react with comfort that someone feels similar or discomfort that someone's view differs from theirs, but - and I've said this for probably over a year on here now - as long as we're not out to purposefully hurt or blatantly insult another, HS should be a place where we can come to tell all of our unique and individual stories.


all of this
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#90: August 12, 2019, 08:13:46 AM
There is so much I don't share on this forum - not because I don't feel safe (although there are times when I do hold back from saying something because I am still sad to say affected by the debacle a few months back where I was called a bully and "one who should be avoided") -
but most of what I don't share is because this is a public forum easily accessed through a simple google search and I need to hold some specifics back to protect a level of anonymity.  I suspect others do the same.  And even for those who share everything, we don't really know each other.  But it is a place where one thing we do know is that other people here know what it's like to be BDed and many others have seen things similar to what we've experienced, while many IRL can't relate at all or are too uncomfortable with the thought of it to even try to relate.

The journey through grief gets considerably lonelier when we separate ourselves into camps of standers/non-standers, assume what other's intentions are and react to our hurt feelings by blaming others for them. 

Loneliness is deadly.  Why would we do anything to increase that feeling.

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#91: August 12, 2019, 09:31:43 AM
Very good question, Nas  We shouldn't.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#92: August 14, 2019, 05:23:42 PM
I just got a message on Fakebook from this guy who looked a bit familiar. He asked, “Are you the Nas who used to work at [name of restaurant I worked at when I was 18]?”
I hesitantly said yes.
He wrote back, “It’s me, Mikey the truck driver.”
This guy was about 40 when he used to come in every single day and just order coffee. I remember him well. He seemed nice and we all knew him by name. But that’s all I remember about him really, it was almost 30 years ago.
I wrote back an enthusiastic “oh my gosh, hi!”

Long story short, not long into chatting, he drops this bomb:
“Boy, you really almost broke up my marriage.”

What now? I did what?  ??? ??? ???

He proceeds to tell me how his crush on me was so big, and he kept the restaurant flyer with my picture in his truck (gag) and his wife totally knew he had a crush and she hated my guts (yeah, I was oblivious and barely talked to the guy beyond serving him coffee but...okay.)

So I guess I was some truck driver’s midlife fantasy. Eww.
They’re still married but he says they were separated for a while. I didn’t get to ask how long because first I asked if he cheated.
He said, I kid you not, “not in real life.” With a winking face emoji.

BLOCKED.

I have to go take a shower now.

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#93: August 15, 2019, 02:37:04 AM
His poor wife, she`s probably gone or more than likely, is still going through the MLC hell with him.

More power to you for blocking him Nas. No doubt by doing so, you`ve broken his heart yet again but like all MLCers (teenagers), he`ll get over it once he grows up.


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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#94: August 15, 2019, 02:47:56 AM
Eeew, just eeewww.
Well, on a positive note Nas, you have obviously still got 'it' lol...but yup, blockety-block  :)
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#95: August 15, 2019, 03:00:38 AM
CALL OUT THE DECON TEAM!!!!!



Good grief..... That dude is seriously in the tunnel...
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#96: August 15, 2019, 07:29:48 AM
To be fair, he was talking about 27 years ago when I was 18, but still creepy, creepy, creepy,
especially considering he's pushing 70 now. 

I would say he's just always been a lech.  But he just seemed like a nice, normal guy.  All the girls I worked with loved him (and we were most definitely all girls - all under 21, most of us were just out of high school).
I'm still good friends with one of them and in contact with all of them so I asked them if they've heard from him, but it appears I'm the only one he's hit up (so far).  ::)

So if he was an MLCer, maybe he was a wallowing MLCer back then because it was all fantasy. 
But he's 27 years older now and came off like a lech, so maybe he's still "wallowing" lol.  Or maybe he never completed his midlife transition and is now in a late life transition. 

Who knows.  People are so strange.  :-\

It does make me feel icky sometimes knowing that the age of social media allows so many people to "look" at us without us even knowing it.
I have my social media settings pretty locked down and I go on Fakebook less than once a month at this point, look at the top two stories in my timeline and then shut it down.  I very rarely post.

I used to be very lax in my settings, back in my naive innocent days, lol.  After OW "liked" my picture on Fakebook, my innocence was gone.  I realized there had probably been people stalking my social media for months and I had no idea.

I know social media is there to be looked at and it's the age we live in now, and in so many ways, social media is great because it helps us reach and connect with so many people we wouldn't otherwise be able to...but the idea of the wrong people checking out my pages still kind of creeps me out.  I really value my anonymity and privacy.

One of the things that I faced after BD, and I'll bet a bunch of other forum members might relate, was the awful feeling of realizing that I'd been in a sort of "competition" for my marriage that I didn't even know I was in, and that anything I did or said or posted in the early MLC pre and even post BD days was being scrutinized and critiqued and compared behind my back.  I felt like such an idiot and of course, worthless and pathetic for "losing" the competition I didn't know I was in.

I still have days where I feel very much like a "loser."  One step at a time to manage my health and rebuild my life, but I feel like H got a huge, huge head start and then just when I was gaining ground, I got thrown way, way, way back while he continued to move forward at a steady pace. 

But I think I'm doing things in a way that will ultimately leave me in a mentally healthier place because I'm going through this insane pain and stress instead of trying to cover it up.

I love the book "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a firetruck" (highly recommend if you haven't read it) and the quote
"The more you pursue feeling better, the worse you feel."
Basically, the more you chase after feeling better all the time, the less satisfied you actually feel.

I think that probably applies or will ultimately apply to most MLCers, although I'm certainly not saying anything novel here.

I read this recently:
"people who reported valuing happiness more highly also reported less well-being and more instances of depression – especially in situations of low stress, when they couldn’t blame their failure to achieve their ideal high levels of satisfaction on negative external events. Why? In the end, valuing happiness too much ended up being a set-up for disappointment."
(from this article:
https://bigthink.com/artful-choice/pursuing-isnt-being-why-the-pursuit-of-happiness-might-undermine-being-happy
and I love the phrase "pursuing isn't being.")

I added the bold for emphasis.  This resonated a lot with me and I think applies to the advice to "let them be." 
I think the more external factors MLCers have around them to blame things on, the longer they can avoid moving forward.
We can't control anything but ourselves, but we can certainly remove ourselves from the mix and not be one of the external factors the MLCer uses to avoid looking at themselves.

Of course, that applies to everybody, not just MLCers.  The more factors an LBS focuses on as "reasons" for our unhappiness, the less able we are to do the work we need to do to detach and do our internal work and reshape or rebuild our lives. 
We all have external stressors and problems beyond those relating to MLC.  Focusing on the MLCer or focusing narrowly on any negative or stressful parts of our lives (or I guess just focusing too narrowly on anything) keeps us stuck.

Pursuing isn't being.  I really love that.  "I have to be happy...I have to do a, b and c to be happy..."  Chasing after "happiness" (which is so subjective anyway) does seem ultimately counterproductive. 
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#97: August 21, 2019, 09:09:41 AM
Just some rambling throwaway musing.
Do you ever feel like there's some sign the universe is sending you but you can't quite put all the pieces together?
I've felt that way for a few weeks.

Then this morning I was sitting in my car on an unfamiliar street waiting to pick up my niece from an appointment.
I opened my phone and read barbiedoll's post about her husband hearing Kenny Rogers' "The King of Oak Street" and breaking down in tears.
I looked up and saw a street sign and realized the street I was parked on was named Oak Street.

Then I just got back and turned on my radio to start some work.  It was a talk radio station so even though they play snippets of songs on the intro and outro of the various talk shows, I never notice music on this station.
Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton immediately starts blaring from the speakers.
Literally haven't heard Kenny Rogers on any radio I've listened to in probably 10 years. 

Little weird coincidences.  Everything in the universe is somehow connected.

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#98: August 21, 2019, 10:04:26 AM
It is, Nas. Butterfly wings and quantum physics and all that.
Any idea what the universe might be trying to tell you?
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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#99: August 21, 2019, 10:11:12 AM
Were you listening to Radio Andy this am by chance?  A little Islands in the Stream? ;) Made me smile just now.

I definitely think the universe speaks to us. But I am pretty obtuse and rarely see what it is, at least right away. That you are listening says you are open to something. What that is, I am sure you will find out when the time is just right for you.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#100: August 21, 2019, 10:20:39 AM
KIT, we definitely have the same exact pop culture interests because you always seem to know all my references.  ;)
Yes, it was Radio Andy, LOL.
Which is funny, because I listen to the show "Reality Checked" every day at 4pm but almost never listen earlier in the day and today just happened to turn it on.  And oddly enough, they were playing Kenny Rogers.

Treasur, no idea what the universe is saying but I wish it would stop talking in riddles and just tell me, lol.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#101: August 21, 2019, 11:10:05 AM
Great minds--I love Reality Checked! Only recently started listening. So good!
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#102: October 13, 2019, 05:13:35 PM
I haven't updated my own thread in a while.

And I'm not going to now either.

Even though I have had some interesting activity from my "vanisher."
But I am dismayed to see that not only has a long-time member been banned from the site (for whatever reason - unless there are threats of physical violence or a person "outs" the personal identification of another, I find banning a person's IP to be extremely unnecessary), but that member's thread has been locked so that others cannot even post goodbyes, thank you notes, or words of encouragement. 

There is nothing that bothers me more on this forum (or anywhere) than the silencing of others. 

EXTREMELY disappointing.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#103: October 17, 2019, 06:18:08 PM
Quote
One of the things that I faced after BD, and I'll bet a bunch of other forum members might relate, was the awful feeling of realizing that I'd been in a sort of "competition" for my marriage that I didn't even know I was in, and that anything I did or said or posted in the early MLC pre and even post BD days was being scrutinized and critiqued and compared behind my back.  I felt like such an idiot and of course, worthless and pathetic for "losing" the competition I didn't know I was in.
.

I must admit to you Nas, this was one of my deepest injuries ..the "competition that I had no idea I was in". I think of it now...and still it stings like a bi#tch. How. dare. anyone. do. this?. I have raged these words ...100 times. H just stares...speechless. He never "thought of that" outcome for me in a million years . He never thought of ANY consequences or long term devastation period. Why would he ? He had NO intention of returning ...ever . In reality..if we can ever remove the shock and emotion...there was no competition, she really was no more than a temporary blow up doll for a man all un-done. Regardless, as recently as last weekend , a friend of my sisters said to me " well, atleast YOU got him...he came back to you ". Shocking . Yes, women seem to see this as a competition. How sad. I am sure my husband and his little ow-fling whispered and planned while I was washing his dirty underware and cooking his supper. I did nothing wrong...I trusted him just exactly like I should have. If a persons intention is to deceive ...they will be successful 100% of the time. But not forever. It still hurts me and yes , felt deep humiliation for a long long time.

Quote
Then this morning I was sitting in my car on an unfamiliar street waiting to pick up my niece from an appointment.
I opened my phone and read barbiedoll's post about her husband hearing Kenny Rogers' "The King of Oak Street" and breaking down in tears.
I looked up and saw a street sign and realized the street I was parked on was named Oak Street.
.

Wow! How bizarre really ! And indeed the song would make a rock cry. Perhaps there are messages coming your way. Such things do happen.

Quote
The Subtle Art of Not Giving a firetruck" (highly recommend if you haven't read it) and the quote
.

I have seen this book in bookstores. Now on my reading list...thanks !

Quote
But I am dismayed to see that not only has a long-time member been banned from the site (for whatever reason - unless there are threats of physical violence or a person "outs" the personal identification of another, I find banning a person's IP to be extremely unnecessary), but that member's thread has been locked so that others cannot even post goodbyes, thank you notes, or words of encouragement. 

There is nothing that bothers me more on this forum (or anywhere) than the silencing of others. 

EXTREMELY disappointing.
.

I had no idea that such a thing could even happen. Lifetime ban?  I know that I a very sensitive ( now) to loss , people leaving, endings, etc...especially when I have ZERO control or vote in the matter. We all may be affected by this . It is no doubt a very big loss to HS.







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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#104: November 03, 2019, 05:25:12 PM
Some of you may remember that back earlier this year, the brother I was living with who recently turned 50 and who I suspect is MLC, basically kicked me out on the street so he could move his 29-year-old girlfriend in. I had to move out (of his 3800 sq ft 4 bedroom home where he lived alone) when she moved in because she wanted her privacy.  ::)

So that is why I’m basically homeless and living in an unfinished basement.

I just found out that Miss 29-year-old chippie promptly quit her “rigorous accelerated radiology tech training program” when she moved in with my brother. She is now taking 1 class at a community college and took a part-time job working at Target.

So my brother (who, again, shows signs of MLC) kicked his cancer-stricken sister out to move in his young girlfriend, who promptly started mooching off of him and now she is living for free in his huge house and he’s irritated as all hell with her but can’t even break up with her because she only works at Target so she’ll end up out on the street. You know, where I basically ended up.

Jackass.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#105: November 03, 2019, 05:35:57 PM
Nas - I'm sorry that you've had to go through this.
It's not fair at all.

We're all here for you...

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#106: November 03, 2019, 05:39:19 PM
Yes we are!!
I’m sorry he is being a jackass!
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M 53
H 48
M 12 years; together 17 years
D18, S28
Summer 2014 - H wanted to runaway
9/14 I was diagnosed with Breast cancer
11/14 Surgery for BC..3 day after my father dies
11/14 BD 2 days after surgery. I have no passion for you.
2/15 moved out
Dated each other all year affection back on..
3/16 moved home
7/16 Diagnosed with Breast cancer again
8/16 No affection again. I knew something was wrong.
9/16 Another surgery for Breast Cancer
9/16 BD 11 days after surgery discovered -EA with much younger W from Work. That is over. I think he has meaningless flings. Work is his mistress
10/16 I filed for D (financial reasons)
10/16 I moved out.
10/16 Now off and on vanisher
5/17 Divorce final

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#107: November 03, 2019, 06:15:12 PM
Wow, those gold diggers are in every town/city.  There seems to be plenty of them. 

I'm sorry that your brother made that stupid decision that affected you. 
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#108: November 04, 2019, 12:55:34 AM
Your name for your brother is MUCH nicer than the one I came up with....

I'm really sorry that you are having to deal with this...
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S - 13, D - 9
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Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
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Divorce final 30 August 2019

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#109: November 04, 2019, 01:14:44 AM
Nas, what can I say? I'm just glad your brother is irritated as hell with her. I hope (naughty me) that life over at the big house is awful. These MLCers are so selfish, they'll kick their sick sister to the curb to get what they want. What really irritates me, is how the MLCer can't possibly do to the OW what they've done to their family. Can't hurt her. Why? I just don't get it.

I imagine that the 25year old can only get worse. This might cause your brother to wake up and get rid of her. It will be interesting to see if your brother's crisis should be shorter since he doesn't have an LBS so he's left completely alone to live out his fantasy. I wish this on him if only to give himself a better life.

Thanks for sharing about your brother, Nas. Again it's just naughty me, but it does give me some satisfaction to hear that the MLCer is not having it easy.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#110: November 04, 2019, 02:42:58 AM
Nas,

The sickening thing was this chippie wanting your brother to kick you out, knowing you had cancer and no job to speak of, because she wanted her privacy....which I bet was real hard to find in a huge 4 bedroom house. 

Your brother may have been going thru a midlife crisis, but she is just pure evil.
There's a special place for people like this.
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#111: November 04, 2019, 03:08:17 AM
Your brother may have been going thru a midlife crisis, but she is just pure evil.
There's a special place for people like this.

Yep.....

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Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 13, D - 9
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Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
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Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#112: November 05, 2019, 03:17:20 PM
Thunder, I totally agree with you. I hadn't thought about it properly, Nas' brother's girlfriend was a full participant, or even more, in having Nas kicked out whilst very sick. This is so terrible when I think about it. A big house with plenty of bedrooms, no kids, everyone works, a family member who is already living in the house is going through treatment and has no where else to live, and you kick them out? What kind of people are these? I just get so angry when I think of it. And they even seem to win as in they are living and maintained in the house, whilst Nas is on a basement floor for no fault of her own. Sometimes it feels like Karma has an outdated map.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#113: November 22, 2019, 06:03:15 AM
I just wanted to use my own thread to make a statement that’s been on my mind.

There is a huge, massive difference between having a healthy skepticism and feeling empowered to express it and flat out accusing people of something or saying things that are truly mean. Skepticism in general is good imo. It keeps us from falling into unhealthy situations or going along with things that make us uncomfortable. Accusing people and making assumptions is something else altogether. I think we should be careful especially on a forum such as this to not equate the two. Sometimes people express healthy skepticism or disagreement or genuine concerns about things and those people should not be condemned. I for one am proud of the fact that I am empowered to use my voice and express my opinion even when I know it’ll be unpopular.

Edit. I have immense respect for lbs who persevere through unbelievable situations and for previous former MLC folks who have given back to this community with sharing their experiences. Pumpkin was the spouse of an LBS here very kindly started her own thread to answer questions.
If you’re interested in seeing how she went about sharing her sample of one MLC experience, here is a link to her posts:


https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=4472
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« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 07:32:07 AM by Nas »

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#114: November 22, 2019, 07:43:07 AM
Thank you, Nas, for sharing the link! 
I’m truly happy for RG and Pumpkin for being able to reunite and rebuild their marriage.

His attitude matches up with that of my H, particularly in respect to humility and taking full personal responsibility for what he has done and his recovery efforts.  He messed up, he cleaned up. 




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My first thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8164.150

My reconnecting thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10524.msg699615#msg699615

Live-in MLCer

Feb 2015: BD. 
Oct 2015: ILYBINILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#115: November 22, 2019, 08:29:30 AM
Wow I remember those posts from Pumpkin.

Thanks Nas for posting them, they were quite helpful for some people.
Plus it was nice to hear from a female MLCer.  I had a male MLCer so it may not have resonated as much with me at the time, but still good information.
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#116: November 22, 2019, 08:39:01 AM
She? He?
If it’s a ‘she’, what about ‘OW’ in the posts?
I’m confused! 
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My first thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8164.150

My reconnecting thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10524.msg699615#msg699615

Live-in MLCer

Feb 2015: BD. 
Oct 2015: ILYBINILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#117: November 22, 2019, 08:46:11 AM
She? He?
If it’s a ‘she’, what about ‘OW’ in the posts?
I’m confused!

Lol sorry I should have introduced them better.
Rainbow Gal was a wonderful member and moderator here and her wife, Pumpkin, was an MLCer who returned and was kind enough to answer some questions for a time.
We all remember recent examples like denjef. There was also sewing, a female former MLCer turned LBS.

Pumpkin is unique also in that she was here only as a returned MLCer, not also as an lbs. So different but equally interesting and helpful perspective from someone like denjef.
I know there’s others but Pumpkin was one that has always stuck with me.
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#118: November 22, 2019, 08:49:17 AM
O, got you.  Silly me ‘assumed’ certain things.  My bad!
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My first thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8164.150

My reconnecting thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10524.msg699615#msg699615

Live-in MLCer

Feb 2015: BD. 
Oct 2015: ILYBINILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#119: November 24, 2019, 12:42:18 PM
Pumpkin wanted to answer questions so she got an account, answered questions and then stopped posting. And now we have the blessing of being able to very easily find and read her specific archived posts.

But hey, let’s just have multiple different people posting under people’s single usernames and then see how helpful it is in the future for anyone to find reliable and accurate information in the archives m. Have at it. I’m sure future newbies who show up here heartbroken, scared and vulnerable will really appreciate that. And the integrity of this forum that has helped us all so much won’t be affected at all.  ::)
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#120: November 24, 2019, 02:02:55 PM
I really appreciated being able to read Pumpkin’s thread as it explains one MLCer’s headspace during crisis. 

It makes sense to remove as much confusion as possible on a site like this because the new arrivals are heartbroken, perplexed and need simple route to information they are seeking.    I know how I felt! 
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My first thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8164.150

My reconnecting thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10524.msg699615#msg699615

Live-in MLCer

Feb 2015: BD. 
Oct 2015: ILYBINILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#121: December 19, 2019, 01:03:11 PM
This is a post in response to the following that was on 3longyrs thread https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?action=post;quote=752985;topic=7812.60
as I did not want to hijack:

To clarify for the final time.  This person Nas refers was known personally to OP and had been friends for some time.  Not only that the family knew of the forum and had no problem with OP releasing the information.

Of course if this person's name had been released without any permission then fair cop. But that is not the case - the family knew of  and are aware of the forum and how their relative had been involved with both the forum and OP personally.

First of all, it took weeks to get any response to my messages of concern about this particular post that contained SO MUCH identifying information.

Then the response I received was a condescending "I'm sorry you feel that way."

Now after no response at all, there's a haughty post about how this guy's family knows about his participation in the forum.
Okay, fine.  Assuming that's the case, there is STILL no reason to include his name and so much personal information.
Assuming OP knew this man personally (which from the post, it was written as though OP had been alerted to the man's death by another member whom OP knows personally, elray) - UNLESS every single other member past and present of HS knew this man personally and knew all of his personal info, what is the reason for and how is it OKAY to post his full name on the forum? 

How many people knew this man by his real name?  Probably none, or a handful.  And that handful would have met him through the forum where they knew him by his username.  So why would you ever need to post anything other than his username?

And if anyone really felt such a burning need to post all that personal info and had the consent of the family, why not say upfront that his family was okay with it?
And why would his family be okay with it?  That seems odd in itself. 

And why the need to rehash the man's troubled past with the forum and his personal issues and the fact that he was banned?

There seemed very little need for any of it and no explanation for some very questionable decisions. 

And the final why: why are very valid concerns about privacy met with first silence and then a condescending response and then sanctimonious frustration over having to deal with answering the concern? 

There was no reason to post that man's name alongside his username.  Or where he lives.  Or his occupation.
Even if members know each other by real life names, there is NO reason ever to post those names on the forum.
I'm sure the family did not say "Please post that he died and include all of his personal info."
In fact, from the way the post is written, the family didn't contact OP.  Elray, another poster, did. 

Regardless, it really doesn't mean squat that his family knew of the member's participation in the forum.  The member had passed away and was not able to give his permission to use his name. 
And unless each and every single member of his family gave their individual permission to post his full name and personal info, it's a breach of privacy that leads back to all of his family members. 

And anyone who thinks I'm just being a troublemaker, think to yourself how you would like it if something happened to you and your forum friend posted:
"[insert your full real name here], who goes by the username ___ from [insert your city of residence here] had an accident and is in the hospital and needs your prayers."
Or God forbid:
"The member [username], whose real name is [real name] passed away from [abc disease] on Dec 19.  You may remember that this member struggled with [your personal demons/struggles that you shared on the forum]..."
OR how about if someone were to post your personal info such that your spouse's personality-disordered OP was somehow able to connect you to all the posts you'd made on this forum (and all the things you've written about your spouse and their OP)? 

There are a huge number of downsides and potential problems that can come of posting identifying info and absolutely ZERO upsides. 

There is just never, ever a valid or appropriate reason to use a members real name, especially full first and last name in conjunction with many other identifying facts.
"I knew him personally" is not a reason.

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« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 02:21:45 PM by Nas »

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#122: December 19, 2019, 11:24:23 PM
Posting here bc I was going to post on a discussion thread FAO of the Moderators. But it seems to have disappeared overnight? Which seems a bit odd.

Initially I was undecided about the issue. (Which I think has now been resolved with the name redacted?). Logically Nas is quite right but I didn't feel strongly about it. However, after a rule of 3 aka a night's sleep, I think the simple truth for me is that using real names here is against HS's own code of conduct. If we have rules governing how HS works - regardless of the circumstances or 3rd party permissions given by non HS members or offline relationships - we should stick to those rules or the code of conduct becomes pointless.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#123: February 16, 2020, 12:46:14 AM
Hallo Nas, I hope everything`s okay with you as you haven`t posted in quite a while.
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Me: 56 (when he left in April 2017)
MLCer: 57 (when he left in April 2017)
Together since: 1986
Married: No
Children:No
Begin of P`s MLC: around Spring 2010 with breaks inbetween when he behaved like his pre MLC self.
OW: YES , he`s living together with an old spinster who just happens to live up the road.
Animals: 1 doggie, belongs to both of us but MLCers has abandoned him too.

"Surrender to what is, let go of what was, have faith in what will be"

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I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#124: August 01, 2020, 07:45:58 PM
Someday I’ll have a birthday where I’m so fabulously celebrating, I don’t even think to locate my long abandoned thread and post a rare check in.

I see lots of newbies on the forum. That makes me sad. 😞

Not much to report from me anyway. 5 years out. Still hear from mil but in a delusional “let’s pretend my son doesn’t exist” kind of way that is unhealthy and not something I’m interested in doing.

I’m still fighting cancer and trying to rebuild every aspect of life. Though “fighting” is maybe not the right word. I’m stable disease atm but with some worrisome issues being monitored (and a separate primary thyroid cancer to boot) and have already made the decision that if I come up again against a situation where I need to go back on a whole new chemotherapy regimen or any other protocol, I will decline.
That is far from a “I have nothing to live for without my marriage” decision. (I don’t pay my H any mind and have not been focused on him for a long long time.) It’s much more of a “I just can’t put my body through that again knowing that I will remain financially struggling and therefore under high anxiety and stress for literally for the rest of my life.” It doesn’t seem worth it. So that’s my decision. It’s maybe the only thing I have control over.

I’m being super cautious due to this pandemic that is wreaking havoc in all of our lives. Based on a recent event that I can only consider a miracle, I *think* I have an opportunity to have a stable roof over my head from September until May. It’s tremendously uncertain right now what will happen between now and May and I can only pray that I find a job before then.

Of course it seems like yet another practical joke from the universe that I had just started entertaining the idea of becoming a teacher -possibly reading specialist -  when the pandemic hit and now of course being high risk, teaching in a school is for the time being completely out of the question for me. (And online teaching when I am living in between a flooded basement and a storage unit is not ideal and I can’t imagine any school district that would entertain  it LOL.)
In fact, it seems like all of the potential soul-satisfying careers I have brainstormed about are all in lines of work that are heavily affected by this pandemic. For instance, I’ve realized along my cancer journey that there is a high demand for massage therapists who specialize in cancer patients. So I had thought about going to school for massage. Well, a high-risk cancer patient certainly cannot be in an occupation that literally requires touching people all day long. 🤦‍♀️

I really hope this virus can get under control sooner than later.

 I’ve realized along this journey just how little I need in my life to be happy. Unfortunately, I’ve also realized how much harder it is for me to even obtain the little that I need to be happy. Bit by bit, piece by piece, I am just trying to put it all back together. Working really hard. Someday I will have a really positive and happy update. Until then, updating my thread will probably remain a rare occurrence.

I wish nothing but the best for all of you and hope that you are all keeping safe and not having too hard of a time during this crazy, crazy time in history.
Love to you all.
xx
Nas

ETA: my thread title Is still appropriate. I’m STILL really tired. Just really, really tired.
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 07:47:05 PM by Nas »

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I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#125: August 01, 2020, 11:49:00 PM
Good to hear from you, Nas, and happy birthday  :)
I hope that the stable roof option works out as a belated birthday gift from the universe.....

I can't even begin to imagine how frustrating and exhausting it must feel that the realities of the pandemic are closing off other avenues to you right now. And you don't owe us a 'happy' update.....tbh I think that 'ta dah magically fixed' kind of update is pretty rare after a life s$itstorm of epic proportions...the bit by bit slog is much more common it seems to me. Along with small pleasures and a real sense of gratitude that, whatever else is happening, we are no longer in the throes of pain that we see when a newbie posts and remember still. And that, with time, our spouses do fade from our musings.....

Thank you for coming back to say hello for those of us who value your voice so much, and our little clanishers of the vanishers subgroup  :) And, if nothing else, I hope your update reminds anyone who isn't so sure about the importance of adjusting their behaviour to protect others from the risks of this virus that there are folks for whom it is vital even when we don't know their circumstances.
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 11:50:29 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#126: August 02, 2020, 02:34:20 AM
Hi Nas, nice to have an update from you. Sorry that your health issues continue to be a worry, and on top of that, they limit your opportunities. I admire you for having a plan in place. I certainly hope that your health may remain stable.

You have done so well searching for job opportunities that would in normal circumstances (without COVId) have been an option for you. You really are inventive and determined, a great example for all of us. You think that your job ideas are not an option for you, but there's a good chance that there will be a vaccine for covid at the beginning of 2021, and then you could implement some of these ideas you have.

Wishing you a happy birthday for yesterday.xx
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#127: August 02, 2020, 05:08:26 AM
I’m also sorry life has given you such huge obstacles and that the pandemic has paused some of your plans.  It must be a constant worry to think that some bad medical tests change everything in an instant.  Your fortitude is amazing. 
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Re: I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#128: August 02, 2020, 10:42:46 AM
Big hugs and support always, Nas!!
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"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

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I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#129: August 02, 2020, 07:33:33 PM
Belated birthday wishes, Nas. 

I had noticed that you had posted briefly on another thread recently and I was wondering how you were doing. 

Thank you for the update. 

Yes, COVID has certainly made a mess of our school systems. 

I do hope you are able to secure the stable roof.  Please do keep us updated.   My best to you. 
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BD: 1/1/16
Together 15 years - married 7 years
His divorce final 7/26/16
Married the OW

After all, tomorrow is another day.

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I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#130: August 03, 2020, 11:52:51 AM
HI Nas,

    Good to hear from you. I want to thank you for some of the things you have posted in the past. A lot of it was at the height of my BD and my loss. You said some wonderful things that encouraged and poked me to look at something a different way.

  Thank you and God Bless
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Together 12 yrs Married 5
5 kids 3- Step (21) (20) (18) Two together ( 8 ) (9)
BD1 March 2018 - I wish I could give you more of what you need
BD2 Aug 2018 - I want a divorce sent by text ILWYBNILWY

O/M Discovered Nov-18

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I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#131: August 03, 2020, 02:21:57 PM
Happy belated birthday Nas!!
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Sada
Married 13 years, together 23
Apr 2014: PA discovered, ow 22 yrs younger
May 2014: "I love her & she loves me"
("But I'll always love you the most")
Jun 2014: Left home to live w OW
Aug 2014: Back home. "Sorry, made mistakes".
Late 2015: Ow2 (a couple of dates I think). Monster
  returned for several months 
Early 2016: Health scare, including major surgery, resulting in fog lifting some more.
Today: H progressing thru mlc positively.Mostly cooked, has remained home and reconciling
Arguments & disagreements very infrequent
Enjoying our time together

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I'm tired; My next thread will have a clever title
#132: August 03, 2020, 02:44:12 PM
Hello,

Happy birthday! I know I am late, but I still wanted to acknowledge you on your special day.

Keep posting and be good to yourself!!!!

((((hugs))) and more ((((hugs)))

Ready
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"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

 

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