Author Topic: My Story My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths  (Read 2367 times)

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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My Story My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« on: February 28, 2019, 03:52:33 PM »
My first new thread in what seems like forever.  I used to start new ones almost daily in the early days but things have slowed down now.....thankfully.

STP - don’t know what you meant by the last comment but it was very rude sounding.  She’s a very beautiful lady and very humble about the fact.  She could certainly do better than me in the looks department, and I hope that at 50+ you’re not still dating women due to looks alone.

Had dinner last night along with a very frank and honest discussion.  The title of my thread comes from the fact that she forced me to face some very painful truths about myself and the past eight years - truths I not only haven’t detailed here but have also been in denial about.  This was what led to her frustration and lashing out the other night, and she stated she wasn’t even drinking at the time.  We did have a nice discussion and decided to keep working on us as we have much to offer each other.  We were at a very good place when we parted ways last night and today has been great. 

I’ll get to the painful truths later but for now suffice it to say that she is my friend first and foremost and I truly believe wants to bring me up rather than tear me down.  She was right about what she said and worded things in a more diplomatic tone yesterday.  She wants the best for me and especially for my kids so for that I’m grateful.  I know she has healing yet to do as well but she did point out all the ways she has been doing better and what she still needs to work on.  Still going to be some rough times ahead but we’ll have several hours alone over the next month to cover any ground we haven’t yet.  Relationships ain’t for sissies!

Peace to you all.

Previous thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8477.0
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 07:19:40 PM by Thunder »
One day at a time.

Thundarr

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2019, 07:57:05 AM »
My weekend was phenomenal, as have been most weekends since we got back together in November.  I had the extreme pleasure of watching my son perform in an honor band at my alma mater which was like a dream come true for me.  He was one of the few selected out of 40 middle schools and over 500 students whose band directors had recommended them so it was a very huge achievement for him and the fact that he was performing in a place that I will always call home made it that much more special to him.  Unfortunately the gf couldn't attend as she had to work late but I did go there after dropping the kids off at home.  Spent the day Saturday with the kiddos and my future SIL who treated us all to lunch at one of our favorite restaurants before we all attended an arcade convention.  Saturday night was again spent at the gf's where we watched a documentary about a child predator that had both of our blood boiling since we could relate to so many clients who had been through similar situations.  She was in an extremely romantic and loving mood this weekend as I could tell even more of her walls were down, as if we had reached another milestone or passed another test or something.  We also came to an agreement on the painful truths part that she had shared with me and she agreed that she would help me with anything I needed.  More on that later.......
One day at a time.

Thundarr

Offline OldPilot

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2019, 08:49:57 AM »
  She’s a very beautiful lady and very humble about the fact.  She could certainly do better than me in the looks department

Had dinner last night along with a very frank and honest discussion.  The title of my thread comes from the fact that she forced me to face some very painful truths about myself and the past eight years - truths I not only haven’t detailed here but have also been in denial about.
So - maybe this has been already said but is she also a therapist?

Personally like I have said in the past, enjoy the ride.
It is not always the destination that matters but the traveling to get to it that matters.

She looks like a very nice lady and the battle of getting along is between the two of you.
It is something that your skills that you use in life as well as the ones you learned here will help
with immensely.

I wish the two of you the best.

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2019, 11:00:39 AM »
Thank you very much, OP.  She is a very nice lady and very well-regarded among all of our mutual friends which is why they were very happy to see the two of us together.  She is a social worker now but used to work with me in my clinic, and in fact was in the very same office I'm in now and where we will be having lunch together tomorrow and Friday as she comes to visit our mutual friends tomorrow and will be picking me up for a long road trip to visit one of her foster kids on Friday.

So....about the painful truths.  Last weekend was the first time she had been to my house and the first time any of the girls I had dated had been.  Since she's a social worker, doing home visits and inspections is a big part of her job and I could tell when she first walked in after bringing my daughter home that something was not sitting well with her.  I thought she may have been upset from our small argument in the morning or that something with D18 had frustrated her but when I walked her to the car she alluded to something about the house was very upsetting.  She messaged me the next morning to tell me she was "disappointed" in me and that we would talk later in the week.  She was more distant the next two days and then sent a long text on Tuesday night that bordered on harsh but we didn't get ugly and agreed to meet the following night.  We discussed at length what was bothering her as well as how the problem could be corrected.  I think it was my openness to her concerns and suggestions that helped us to reach a new level in our relationship.

Basically, since XW left almost 8 years ago I've hardly changed anything in the house other than installing the TV and surround system in my bedroom.  We still have the same furniture, the same pictures on the wall and things have gotten dusty and cluttered over the years.  It's not to the level of hoarding but she could tell right away that I had let many things in the house go over the years, partly because at first the stress of working and raising two small children was very high and later because of so many kid commitments along with working so many on-call shifts for the extra money.  She said it looked as if I had left things just the way they were when XW was still living there and as if in some way I had not moved on and had maybe kept the kids from moving on in some way.  I had to take time to digest and think about it but she is correct.  I haven't so much as painted a single wall in over 8 years, and only painted the deck outside along with XW's help.  She pointed out that the kids have had things exactly the same for so long even though their lives have changed drastically since XW left and that they were doing fantastic in school and extracurricular activities so perhaps they had moved on more than I had.  She was very understanding and non-judgmental in her observations, and didn't take offense that I still had pictures of XW in the photo collages hanging in the hallway.  I do need to do a lot of things to remodel and repair things in the home as well as get the garage cleaned out and rid ourselves of the clutter.  She pledged to help me with it and said that the changeover needs to be sweeping as she could sense the negative energy in the house as soon as she walked in.  In some ways it has become exactly what I never wanted it to - a crypt or tomb of the family that was.  She said we will take a weekend to de-clutter and suggested that D18 and S14 be the ones to pick out the new colors for the hallways and living areas and to encourage them to redecorate their rooms as well (which they have since XW left, but with her help).  She's not trying to replace or supplant XW but pointed out that XW had forfeited her right to make decisions about how the house should be and look so the kids and I need to make it ours.  It hit me like a sledgehammer in the chest when she told me all of this, but it did so because I knew deep down she was right.  I was hanging on to the old life in the only way I could subconsciously and the thought of moving on to something new was stressful enough, but now the thought of staying the same is even more stressful.

So that's my painful truth.  Wish me luck and motivation to make the changes in my life that I need to, for our relationship but mostly for the kids and myself.

Peace to you all.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

Offline OldPilot

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2019, 11:07:03 AM »
Good luck with that - but I think it will be a good change and can help the two of you bond.

New scenery will be good!

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2019, 11:23:30 AM »
Hello,

I went through the same process. I took truckloads of stuff to the Goodwill. My new wife and I cleared out all this clutter that held me back. Then as a couple, we selected the colors and painted the interior. We also replace light fixtures and then took out all the old carpet. We put in laminate flooring and new carpet in the bedrooms. Looked awesome.

It was a process of moving forward, as an individual and a couple. I then was able to lease the old home and we worked as a team to buy a new home. Our place.

My advice it to embrace the change and as OP wrote, the work as a couple will build bonds between both of you.

Fist bump,

Ready
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Online Treasur

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2019, 11:58:39 AM »
Idk, Thundarr...not sure you're going to like this or even that it is my place to say anything...but then I guess there is some reason you are still sharing here....

Well, I was expecting something much more scandalous....probably says more about me lol

But something just doesn't feel quite right in this somehow.
"Disappointed" doesn't sound very non-judgmental to me.
It was the first weekend she had been to your family's house....and goes from that to an assertion that you have 'not moved on'...to how she will 'help' you and your kids make a 'sweeping' changeover? To make it 'ours'?

I get what OP and Ready both say about doing that as part of making a new shared living space.
But have you actually invited her to move in?

And tbh, I would humbly suggest that the opinions that matter most and first about YOUR family home are yours followed by your kids. Without her input, what conversations have you had with them about what they like and dislike about how their home is now?

You will do as you see fit of course. But as an outsider, the previous flags about points of conflict, her own issues and her drinking would all make me want to go slow and steady...but I see you talk about 'future SiL' and then she visits your house once, texts you that she is disappointed, gets distant and harsh, then unfolds a psychological critique and a speedy action plan? Idk...something doesn't smell good about this...it really feels like it is about her tbh, and seems pretty disrespectful and manipulative to me.

If nothing else, please ask your kids how they feel and what they want first in a open minded way...it is their home and their safe harbour and all three of you suffered a lot of upheaval and difficult adjustments in the past.

My sincere apologies if I have crossed a line here bc I don't know you at all.
But after hesitating for a while, I just wanted to say that something doesn't smell right to me.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2019, 02:42:18 PM »
T-
In my honest opinion
The last time I checked your profile you noted divorced but standing?
Is it that? Or are you divorced and done?

Again moving on a bit with a few changes is ok.

When the kids are involved  with the changes it may go a bit more smoothly.
They are still young and those photos etc they may find some comfort in?
Maybe they would like them in their rooms?

I'm not sure if she's having a walk in take right over attitude?
Eight years is a really long time to not have changed anything.

These changes need to take place slowly and with everyone on board with it.

Regardless of where this relationship goes you might want to think about making that house more your own.

There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2019, 07:49:18 AM »
Thank you all.  Treasure, I welcome any and all feedback and discount none so please never be afraid to post whatever you feel or see.  We're all fumbling in the dark at times and there have been many occasions where the unbiased observations of others have saved me from making a terrible decision or stepping off a ledge.

Which brings me to the gf.  Since our relationship began as friends who would share the details of our personal lives with each other as well as give each other said unbiased feedback, even 2x4's as they were once referred to on here, it is somewhat natural to us that we continue to do so now.  When we worked together I was seeing multiple people and she went out with a couple and we would share our stories and give each other feedback on whether or not something seemed like a good idea or what might be considered a danger zone.  Since we had shared experiences of being LBSes we naturally bonded and looked out for each other.  It wasn't until recently that I realized she pretty much told me that everyone I went out with did not seem like a good fit because she herself liked me and wanted to pursue a relationship, and the history of our conversations match what she said as she did in fact ask me out in 2017 after she no longer worked here and I pretty much blew her off unknowingly as I honestly thought I didn't have a chance with her.  Strange to think of now.

And as far as the house goes, she never tried to take over things or change who I am but rather told me she thought I was holding the kids back by not letting go myself.  She really does seem to care about them and stressed that I do need to make it "our" home rather than the one XW decorated as her own, which it of course no longer is.  In talking with D18 this morning she not only agreed but said she had felt that way for a while now but didn't bring it up.  She already has designs on how she wants things to look so it seems like I was the one late to the party here.  Working on that....

Waking up this morning I had many triggers from my past MLC experience with XW that may or may not have been caused by the gf getting closer into my life now.  I kept thinking about how just ten short years ago I thought that XW and I would be together forever and since we had already been together for 20 years at the time it only makes sense that I would have thought that way.  I never dreamed that anyone or anything could come between us as I was flooded with so many happy memories, many of which were the small intimate moments like gf and I share now.  Times that no one else but us would understand but that meant so much to both of us.  Now......the realization that as much "in love" as gf and I seem to be at times the knowledge that it could go the exact opposite way and I wouldn't even see it coming is very sobering.  She SHOULD be past the age for MLC but I know that menopause is likely around the corner and no one knows how that might go, and as OP wrote so many times that in itself can be an unwieldy beast to try to tame or even understand.  So much uncertainty and so little reassurances in life.

Peace to you all.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2019, 07:53:23 AM »
Well, thundarr, if it opened up a useful conversation with your kids and fits their instinct and your own, then no harm done.  :)

And most of us would share your 'how did that happen and how could I possibly avoid it in future' feeling. No idea. I am a million miles away from even being able to imagine loving someone other than my former h in that way....but maybe some other folks here who have moved forward with new relationships can help.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 07:56:09 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2019, 09:08:30 AM »
....but maybe some other folks here who have moved forward with new relationships can help.

Was that a hint? Well, as a happily remarried man, I am still in the bliss of the honeymoon period. However, we have been a couple for almost five years and have been working as a team ever since.

I have two fears- her going into MLC or I have my own crisis.

In my own situation, I have reflected and based upon the trend here, I'm  probably a low risk. My parents were not rich, but provided me a sound childhood with no drama. In fact, I have few memories of being a young child other than pleasant memories which studies indicate are a good sign of an overall emotionally healthy childhood.

In her situation: There are a few issues between her and her mother. However, I have yet to meet any female without a few issues between them and their mothers. She never knew her father. She did grow up without a childhood and helped raise her younger siblings. During our time together, while she has been working on me to be more organized and productive, I have worked on her to relax and play-at least a little.

It has been a while since the honeymoon. So I am looking forward to two trips that will be just the two of us in April. We both decided early on in our relationship to go off every few months and have some "us" time away for the home and family just to focus on us.

I have thought about it, but I have decided to let it go. Fear can paralyze us and keep us from being our best.

Quote
Now......the realization that as much "in love" as gf and I seem to be at times the knowledge that it could go the exact opposite way and I wouldn't even see it coming is very sobering.

Unfortunately, with or without MLC, all relationships can turn on a dime. But you are not a player and she doesn't seem like one either. I am a little concerned about the alcohol, because any addictive substance can disrupt all relationship dynamics. But you already know that.

My advice is to create a safe environment where both of you can share your vulnerable sides and grow together as a couple.You may even want to bring up and discuss your MLC fears. Good communication is vital and it brings good information that enlightens. After all information is like oxygen-without it, we start to hallucinate.

Fist bump bro-

((((Ready))))

 
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2019, 10:30:04 AM »
Thanks Ready and Treasure.  Communication is key and luckily that's one of our strong suits as we both tend to be brutally honest and don't like holding things in.  Unfortunately, that also means that we tend to butt heads at times but who doesn't?  We have always worked out our problems and come to agreements even if it just to disagree.  We did talk about the alcohol the other night and I brought it up solely as a concern for her health since she has had some concerns lately.  She's actually going to an appointment this afternoon to get her heart checked out and then this evening for her lung checkup. So far everything has been fine so fingers crossed there's nothing to worry about, but when I mentioned that they are probably going to want her to decrease the drinking and stop smoking she acknowledged that she drinks more than she should and that she needs to find healthier way to cope with her work stresses.  She stated today that she's going to stop taking work home to do there and may work a Saturday or two in her office instead so this should help her to not be thinking about work stresses on her free time, which is a problem as she often needs to vent about work when we are together.  I know her job is very stressful and her work ethic of being a completionist in a job that is never done is an ongoing stressor for her.

I also want to mention how I do see things in her actions and behavior that indicate the effects of past traumatic experiences for her. specifically the narcissistic first ex-husband who was so emotionally and physically abusive to her.  The other day she got her hair done at one of the nicer salons in town and I made a conscious point to compliment her on it as soon as I saw her that evening.  Her reaction was to say that I was just relieved that she didn't get it all chopped off or done in a way that I would be embarrassed to be seen with her.  She seemed to be joking but I could tell there was some relief in her voice.  Her first XH told her she looked like a "dyke" when she cut her hair shorter and would tell her she dressed like one when they would go out, but when she went out with friends he would say she looked like a "$l*t."  I have noticed that she is very conservative in her dress and does not flaunt her curves or any other part of her body when we are not spending the whole time out together such as today, and that she does still tend to be overly self-conscious.  I always tell her that I want her to be herself and not to live according to me as I was never that way with XW or anyone I've dated.  I hate that in the back of her mind she thinks I would judge her or think differently of her based on something as small as how she wears her hair but perhaps that is something she will eventually accept once we are together long enough.  You ladies who have been in such relationships are the experts on whether or not this ever goes away or not but I honestly want her to be the ultimate version of her rather than trying to be who she thinks I want her to be.  Any insight into this or how I should go about reassuring her, or even if I should just go along and act the part since that is what she's expecting?
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2019, 06:40:04 PM »
It probably will fade with her with time.

You listen to so many put downs or very seldom received any compliments and you start to believe what they say in an abusive relationship.

I was never told  I was beautiful or amazing or anything positive by the ex or any other man I have been with- until now. My new man said he finds that hard to believe.

It's true.
The most the ex ever said to me is I cleaned up nice. ::)

This new relationship has been an adjustment for me.
Pay her genuine compliments Thundarr. Not just about how she looks . Her strength..just to take a chance on another relationship is huge (after her last one) and takes courage.

Until I believed them myself ( from myself) they were hard to accept from someone else.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 07:21:39 PM by in it »
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2019, 08:06:31 AM »
Thanks Init.  I do see subtle changes in how she responds to things as it seems that we are getting more used to each other.  I also think the fact that we knew each other as friends and co-workers helped her to be more comfortable with me and was probably the determining factor for her to even risk opening her heart again.  One of our mutual friends even said that if things don't work out with us that this may be her last hurrah as she had not gone out with anyone for two years prior to me asking her out.  Her older sister is a "crazy cat lady" who doesn't date and lives alone with several cats and she's mentioned before that she thinks her sister wants her to follow in her footsteps. 
One day at a time.

Thundarr

Offline OldPilot

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2019, 08:08:55 AM »
Thanks Init.  I do see subtle changes in how she responds to things as it seems that we are getting more used to each other.  I also think the fact that we knew each other as friends and co-workers helped her to be more comfortable with me and was probably the determining factor for her to even risk opening her heart again.  One of our mutual friends even said that if things don't work out with us that this may be her last hurrah as she had not gone out with anyone for two years prior to me asking her out.  Her older sister is a "crazy cat lady" who doesn't date and lives alone with several cats and she's mentioned before that she thinks her sister wants her to follow in her footsteps.

Relationships are HARD WORK!

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2019, 08:16:30 AM »
Not sure i agree actually.
I think they can have times when they require some hard work from us....
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2019, 09:04:17 AM »
Quote
I think they can have times when they require some hard work from us....

This is a good hijack moment and discussion. What is the right amount of effort needed to sustain a thriving relationship?

I am trying to phrase this because so many of our MLCers complain that we didn't put effort into the relationship like we used to. Is that true, partially true, or just typical MLCer nonsense.

I am contemplating the idea of balanced life with balances in our relationship. I don't believe that you ever truly reach a state of balanced life. Instead you monitor all aspects of your life and focus on the areas that need your attention at that time. For example, my work can explode at times and I have to focus a lot of time and energy to work at the cost of my physical and social health. Just as I get work back under control, I need to put more energy to my relationship. So it is a constant focus on examining all aspects of your life and allocating the appropriate time and energy based upon need.

In my case, I feel that I let things slide with my MLCer prior to bomb drop. I was very focused on work and although I saw warning signs, I didn't give them the same focus as I did work. Had I noticed and focused on us would have I stopped bomb drop or would have I just merely postponed the inevitable?

So my question is, "How much work/effort does a good relationship need?"

Thanks,

((((Ready))))

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Offline OldPilot

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2019, 09:11:31 AM »
So my question is, "How much work/effort does a good relationship need?"
Nice one - I will stick with what I said that relationships are HARD WORK.

LOVE is a CHOICE.

It is not a feeling, although it is nice when it is.
There are always going to be times that you will be tested in any relationship.
People change and the rates of change in two people in a relationship are not the same.
So you need to be able to do the work to keep a relationship going.

Are there times when it is not hard work. Sure - enjoy those times and save them for when the going gets tough. 

JMHO


Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2019, 11:01:11 AM »
Thank you everyone for the very though-provoking responses.  I would agree that sometimes relationships are hard work but at other times things just happen naturally and two people grow closer just by spending time together and/ or shared experiences. Sure there are hard times but I think the key to whether a relationship is too much work would be to assess the cost/ benefit ratio - how important is the person to you and how much work or sacrifice is actually involved?  In my case, learning to deal with the effects of her past traumatic experiences has been difficult but also very eye-opening at the same time and what has benefitted me the most has been the ability to honestly say the two words "I understand."  This has helped me to look past her behaviors and some of the things she has said and look instead at why she says and does the things she does and whether or not any of it is really personal, and it has also helped her to open up and share her feelings rather than lashing out as a way to protect her feelings or to create space.

Case in point, this past weekend we attended a rock concert with her favorite band of all time and it was the first time she ever saw them live.  To say it was a bucket list thing and/ or a dream come true for her is an understatement and she had not been to a concert in almost 30 years (other than the small outdoor one we went to last year the day we officially started dating).  We had a little miscommunication about what time I would be picking her up and she thought it was an hour before I actually got there, and when I arrived she was sitting on the couch looking a bit sad and made a statement that I was late.  After we left she opened up a bit and said that she thought I had stood her up.  When I asked why in the world she would ever think that as I've never stood her or anyone else up she told me the story of when it had happened to her.  We had a great conversation after the concert about her insecurities and how she told herself for a long time that I was only with her to make XW jealous.  She said that she's starting to not believe that anymore sees that I really do care for her and that what we have is real.  I shared some of the insecurities I have and have had and she was very receptive to them as well as reassuring me of what and why she loves me.  It felt pretty good to hear her say that she thought I was "too good to be true" for a while.  Such is the life of an LBS, and especially one who has been through even worse in their life.  I can't put my finger on it but something changed with us this weekend and my comfort level is way higher.  Perhaps another wall was dropped, or maybe the fact that she chose to publicly "out" our relationship on Facebook makes me at ease in a way that I didn't know I wasn't. 

Either way, we're in a really good place now and have several things planned for the future.  Saturday will be our first outing together with her youngest grandchildren and Sunday she will be attending my daughter's orchestra concert with me and my 3 kiddos so we are both getting enmeshed in each other's families.  She has a day planned with D18 the weekend after next and we are discussing projects to work on at my house and her apartment.  Tonight I will be attending D18's school concert and likely sitting with XW since she will be bringing S14 from school but gf will not be able to attend.  I'm still a bit nervous about her meeting XW for the first time as it may go okay and........it may not.  XW has shown to be very passive-aggressive and downright rude to other women who have stepped up and helped me out with the kids as she likely feels threatened, and gf will not take any type of dismissive or disrespectful behavior lightly or without calling it out.  Interesting times for sure, but I really am looking forward to the next few months

Peace to you all.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2019, 11:29:22 AM »
Well if your GF can keep her cool your ex will look like the ass.
Sometimes not an easy thing to do, keep your cool, when you have been abused or disrespected.
I didn't really meet my SOs ex .not the first time anyway.I didn't want to or need to. Neither did my SO feel at need for me to meet her.
I was there for a drop off his youngest Daughter.
His ex may not have seen me sitting in the car at first.
But when she did she banged on the roof of the car to get my attention.
I didn't jump, barely flinched..slowly looked up from my phone and over my sunglasses in her direction.

She gave a little smile and waggled her fingers at me through the driver's side window.
I waggled mine at her and went back to looking my phone.
I'm not sure why everyone feels it's necessary that a current GF need to meet an ex.
Maybe you can enlighten me as to what that reason is?
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2019, 03:17:49 PM »
I for one dread the two of them meeting but also hope one day they can co-exist and we can all sit together at kid functions and such.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2019, 03:29:54 PM »
No no no no!
Please don't tell me you  want to play happy divorced family.
(It will be years and years down the road maybe.)

For now if you like peace and no drama give yourselves the break( if GF agrees) maybe after dating at least a year.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 03:31:07 PM by in it »
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2019, 03:58:19 PM »
One day, lol.  Gf has no desire or intention of meeting her but is prepared for the possible eventuality.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2019, 07:29:59 AM »
Hello,

Listen to the others. My new wife has only met my ex once. It was at my daughter's college graduation December of 2016. My ex came down for the commencement and the party.

Both were cordial to each other and we had one dinner together and the party. At the party, my ex stayed to one group of friends and I and my new wife stayed to the other.

Of course, my kids are older and the focus and the attention was on my older daughter. It was her graduation.

Since then, I have only seen my ex one other time. We  basically vanished from each others' lives. And I like it that way.

You don't have to have the happy divorced family. You can come together if you have to and act like reasonable adults, but you don't have to become BFF's either.

Just my thoughts,

Ready
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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2019, 08:32:39 AM »
Had a fantastic weekend as well as the long road trip with the gf almost a week ago.  We've spent a great deal of time together over the past week and I think it has really brought us closer.  The long road trip was very good for us as we both went somewhere we've never been and got to fall back on our friendship in helping each other process through things that are going on in our lives.  We had a blast even though there were times we were both dealing with a great deal of frustration (we got lost thank to the unreliable GPS on my phone, lol) but all in all it was a great experience for us and was everything I hoped it would be.  Having her join my co-workers and I for lunch so that she could catch up with them was a boost too as she spoke very highly of me to them and talked about things we had done and plans we have for the near future.  I have to admit it felt good.

Friday night we hung out with her grandkids and got to have a very deep heart-to-heart talk about some of our concerns and how much our relationship has evolved over the past eight months.  We really have come a long way and to hear how she used to see things compared to how she does now was very reassuring for me.  Communication has and will probably always be a struggle for us as she very much speaks on the emotional side and I speak from a logical standpoint, but she accepts that it might take me a bit to truly get what she's trying to say at times and I understand not to take any initial reactions of hers personally.  Any disagreement we have is much more a ripple than a wave now as we both know how to manage each other's temperament without adding fuel to the fire.  I still struggle with adjusting to how much she is unlike XW as she doesn't try to push buttons and instead speaks from her heart as opposed to how XW would keep things to herself and lash out with passive aggression or try to instigate me when she knew I was in a bad mood or not feeling well.  The relationship I have with gf is very unlike the one XW and I had, and for that I'm thankful.  I'm still not at a point to where I feel comfortable being open about all of my insecurities both with myself and in our relationship, but she also doesn't push and told me we could discuss them when I'm ready just as she has some things with her past that she's not ready to share as of yet.

We spent Saturday with two of her grandkids and had a wonderful time.  I got to meet a couple of her co-workers but didn't find them to be very talkative.  She did mention Friday night that she regretted bashing me to her co-workers when we "broke up" in November and that some have questioned why we got back together if I was as "bad" as what she made me out to be then, but said the two that were there weren't the ones who did.  Either way, I really don't care what anyone thinks of me and know that both men and women tend to vilify their exes so I wasn't surprised that she did.  Still makes me wonder what she told them....

Sunday she went with me and all three of my kiddos to D18's concert and eating out.  Things were a bit stressful at first as D18 was in one of her moods, but things quickly changed after the dress rehearsal an everyone was in a great mood.  Gf is very respectful to my kids and advocates for children in her profession so I'm very happy that they seem to be clicking with her.  She was very careful to "stay in her lane" and acted as more a guest than someone who was trying to replace their mom, which was something D26 said they feared.  She handled her role marvelously and interacted pleasantly with them while never pushing them to talk to her or redirecting them in any way.  All things considered, things went about as well as I could have hoped for given it was the first time for all of us to be together.  She also scored brownie points with the kids by being completely selfless and going to D26's with us to drop D26 off and spent time with my grandson who she had been wanting to see anyway, then insisting that I stop for dog food on the way home after the kids mentioned we were out.  She certainly didn't give them any reason to complain about her so we are inching every closer to being a family unit.  She did make it clear this weekend that her long-term goal was for us to be married someday but acknowledged that we both have a long way to go before we're ready for that.  Funny thing is that I noticed that she changed the wallpaper on her phone to a picture of us together and when her granddaughter saw it she asked her if we were going to get married, to which she told her to ask me.  I just said that was cute.  :)

Peace to you all.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2019, 06:23:03 PM »
Hello,

Thundarr and his lady are kissing in a tree,
K-I-S-S-I-N-G
First comes love, then comes marriage
then comes baby in a baby carriage.

Just kidding. I am so glad that you had a great weekend. I am really enjoying my life as well. In my situation, I don't see myself as a replacement father to her kids and she doesn't see herself as the mother to my children.

Of course, they are adults now. I just give advice and listen. Mother is the parent. She does the same for me. They are extremely appreciative of what I do and very respectful.

Everyone chipped in and helped with the wedding. I appreciated all my kids helping and being a part of my wedding. It made it really special and I am so happy how everything is turning out.

The most important thing I want for you my friend is to find a source of joy that makes each day feel special.

I have posted on my thread. My wife brings so much to me. I come home happy and looking forward to seeing her. I like seeing her come through the door and I smile the second our eyes lock.

We talk about everything and we have our moments. But at night, just to hold her and have her near just brings a special peace to my heart.

I want you to feel the same,

(((Ready))))
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2019, 11:02:15 AM »
Thanks Ready.

Ah, relationship drama.  How it rears its ugly head when least expected.  This week has been a rough one for us as we had planned to see a movie together Tuesday night, but due to XW not picking S14 up and then having her boyfriend at her apartment when I took him to drop him off which precipitated him crying and deciding he didn't want to be there when the boyfriend was, I ended up taking him to the movie with me and getting there right on time.  Gf was angry about waiting so long for me to get there as well as the fact that XW screwed S14 over so she insisted I see the movie with him and she went on home.  She told me last night about how horrible her day had been Tuesday and apologized for being short with me even though it was mutual and we kissed and made up before she left.

Last night we decided to try again and this time went out to eat and had a great time.  We talked about the previous night and the stresses in our weeks as well as our future plans for the next month.  She informed me that she has decided to extricate her FOO out of her life as much as possible as she now sees them as toxic to her and her kids, and from what she's told me about them I would agree.  We talked about having family get-togethers with just our kids and grands and she said she wants holidays to just be with us as far as her family is concerned, but of course with my  mom and family just as always. She informed me that her ex-boyfriend (the one she said she would "love forever as a friend") had contacted her and sent her a FB friend request and told her that he was now divorced again.  She said she had decided that it would not be appropriate to be friends with him and that she loved me and my kids and didn't want anyone or anything coming between us.  I thanked her for being open and honest with me and she later sent a text stating that she meant everything she said and that she was looking forward to our vacation over her birthday weekend as well as everything that's ahead for us.  She closed by saying she was glad she took the chance on us as she had been resolved to spend the rest of her life alone at one point and I responded that I was glad we took the chance too.  That was at 9 pm.

I went home and went to bed and was awakened by a series of texts at midnight from her where she was expressing anger that I had "liked" a couples posts on FB of a woman whom I had known for 35+ years and who she had had a conflict with almost 10 years ago.  This woman was never more than an acquaintance, and honestly for most of the time I've known her I didn't even like her, but she told me she saw this as a betrayal and that she felt I had stabbed her in the back.  She then texted that she might accept her ex's friend request after all because "at least he was  honest."  I wasn't going to respond at first because I knew she was very tired and cranky as well as being in her period but when she sent that I lashed out and things went south from there.  She eventually said she would go on the vacation alone and that I "wasn't worthy of her love" and that "(XW) and I deserve each other."  I sent the last text pretty  much wishing her an early happy birthday and telling her to have a nice life and safe trip.  High school crap on both our parts, I know.

So now my question is this:  Neither of us has texted the other today and I know that she's probably feeling really dumb for making such a big deal out of something so trivial especially given how it escalated, but also realize she may be seething and really may see this as a betrayal since I knew how the woman had done her wrong and that me liking her post may have triggered a memory of how the woman tired to screw up her previous marriage.  It was definitely a trigger now that I think about it and on the same night when she made herself vulnerable by telling me something I would never have known about otherwise.  Giving the knowledge that perception is reality I'll send the olive branch to let her know I care about her feelings and reassure her that this woman will not do the same thing to us that she did to her previous marriage (she wasn't an OW but rather just a drama starter).  This relationship stuff is all so new to me and makes me wonder if my marriage was so dysfunctional because we didn't have these problems.  *Sight*

Peace to you all.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2019, 11:20:39 AM »
You seem to spend quite a lot of time speculating or deciding what this person feels or why she acts this way (which I appreciate may be an occupational hazard lol)...and then deciding how to act to clarify or reassure her.

What do YOU feel about this stuff? How do YOU feel when it is happening?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2019, 11:51:47 AM »
Treasure, at first I was a bit surprised but laughed it off as I knew she was overreacting and would look back and see this for herself but became a bit angry when I felt she was comparing me unfavorably to her ex.  I have recently come to accept that I have a great deal of fears that I was in denial of that I need to work through for our relationship to work and confided some of those to her last night.  Of course I have the fear of abandonment from the whole MLC situation but also some childhood abandonment and feelings of not being enough to work through as well. 

Incidentally, we've been texting since my last post and she explained her perception as well as admitting that she knows I don't like the woman and meant nothing by liking her post.  She also pointed out that she had said in one of her texts that she was not wanting to break up but was expressing how she felt hurt by that, which now makes me feel like an idiot in some ways as she is correct.  I think I read what I expected to read rather than what was actually written, but she also asked if something was going on with me as she has senses my being quick-tempered lately and has been worried that I might be looking for a way out.  She's right on that as well as this week has been very hard on me due to it being my late brother's birthday week and working on-call so much that I have little to no time for myself and have been letting negative thoughts and doubts cloud my mind when I know they're unrealistic.  Relationships are hard work!
One day at a time.

Thundarr

Offline OldPilot

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2019, 12:00:31 PM »
I went home and went to bed and was awakened by a series of texts at midnight from her where she was expressing anger that I had "liked" a couples posts on FB of a woman whom I had known for 35+ years and who she had had a conflict with almost 10 years ago. 
This woman was never more than an acquaintance, and honestly for most of the time I've known her I didn't even like her, but she told me she saw this as a betrayal and that she felt I had stabbed her in the back.
Really?

So she is blowing up your relationship over a FB post?

IDK sounds a little over the top to me.

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2019, 12:01:03 PM »
Hello,

Quote
I went home and went to bed and was awakened by a series of texts at midnight from her where she was expressing anger that I had "liked" a couples posts on FB of a woman whom I had known for 35+ years and who she had had a conflict with almost 10 years ago.

There are some issues here. She has a habit of reacting and not waiting. I like lots of friends posts and pictures. It's meaningless and it is just a public acknowledgement that I saw the post. If you saw the same person walking down the street, would you say "Hi, how are you?" Not that you are best buddies, but just a common courtesy.

As I have suggested before,you both need to sit down and discuss your social media practices.

Quote
She eventually said she would go on the vacation alone and that I "wasn't worthy of her love" and that "(XW) and I deserve each other."

This is not acceptable. First of all, it is a personal attack with the only aim to personally hurt you. My new wife and I have a strong boundary that when we argue, we avoid put-downs, or use our arguments to attack each other. Also, we leave exes out of the argument-positive or negative.

My new wife and I have our drama. However, we recognize our drama and work towards resolution. It often means compromise by both parties. But it is our commitment to each other and our ability to communicate with each other.

The other day, I was making a latte on my Nespresso machine. I managed to knock it over and spill the entire cup down the crack between the counter and stove. The look on her face let me know that she was not happy. I offered to clean it up, but the kitchen is her kingdom and she did t. I did pull the stove out. She never put me down or stated I was sloppy, clumsy, or lacked intelligence.

While I did wrong, my intent was not to harm. Your Facebook activity was not to harm and she needs to recognize that. Furthermore, you dealt with monster with your ex-why are your accepting monster now?

Quote
Neither of us has texted the other today and I know that she's probably feeling really dumb for making such a big deal out of something so trivial especially given how it escalated, but also realize she may be seething and really may see this as a betrayal since I knew how the woman had done her wrong and that me liking her post may have triggered a memory of how the woman tired to screw up her previous marriage.

You are trying to mind read. Can't do it. Only focus on the actions and words that are spoken. I may be wrong, but there is a lack of trust on her part. For both you and her, it needs to be addressed.

I really want what is best for you Thundarr. I am concerned because in this relationship, she seems to have a habit of lashing out at you. When others on the forum post about her bad behavior, you then defend her. Why?

I know you care and have feeling for her, but she needs to reciprocate these feelings back to you.

Quote
I'll send the olive branch to let her know I care about her feelings and reassure her that this woman will not do the same thing to us

You can extend the olive branch to open up communication and let her know that you are sorry that her feelings are hurt. However, the facebook woman is not the issue. It is her reaction that is the issue. That needs to be addressed.

Just my opinion,

Fist bump,

Ready
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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2019, 12:36:37 PM »
Hmm...jmo fwiw...I think you tend to mindread and focus on assumed intent over behaviours, and she tends to lash out and then gaslight you about your reaction so you apologise. Something about this isn't good....is that why you come here to post about it, Thundarr?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline lawprofessor

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2019, 02:06:42 PM »
God Thundarr,

I heard you were posting and thought I'd drop in and see how you are coming along.  Your Grandbaby is just darling and has his Grandpas cheeks. 

Now on to the "woman" in your life. I'm not going to bang heads with you over this one like I had to over your ex where you swing into big Daddy defender mode but come on!

First, so what if she is on her period.  That old explanation is pathetic.  It doesn't give her the right to act like an immature childish 13 year old brat and have a tantrum.  Grown up women know how to control themselves. Excuses are for children.

2. Each time is the same old tired thing.  You do something that "triggers" her and she lashes out like a barracuda to ensure you feel as badly about yourself and your actions as she does. 

Sound familiar? It should.

Then you are to come crawling to her with an olive branch, prostrate, worried about her feelings.  Ensuring your self esteem is lower than hers.

Rinse with a little love bombing.
Repeat

That is manipulation and control not love.

Codependency. 

Why are you trying to read her mind?  I see that on HS all the time.  "Ex probably ______".  Umm nope.  That's what you all are hoping ex thinks or feels based on what you would feel had you done the same thing. 

Why are you signing up for another trip through hell? 

Another round of spending your life trying to walk on eggshells?

Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

Come on man, you are worth more than this.

Look at her words and behaviors detached from who you want to see her as. 

Fights over Facebook?
Midnight texts fighting?  What was she drunk?
Demands of loyalty. You can't like some woman's posts or its disloyal to me since she was mean to me 10 years ago.
Scorekeeping wrongs from years ago
Control
Gas lighting
Trash talking you to her co-workers when you two disagree about something.
Cutting off your connection to other people who are women.
Threatening to friend an ex because you fell off your white horse and liked some random woman's post in order to punish you.
Using your insecurity you revealed in confidence to her as a weapon against you to control and hurt you.

Really?? Is this what you want to invite in your life?

Honey, save all the defense of her as I'm sure you were warming up your keyboard to tell me how wonderful a time you two have together sometimes, how beautiful she is, how great the sex is, etc. Ive already been through all that with you years ago over your ex and won't watch this "woman-child" do the same to you all over again. 

Oh, and on the subject of triggers, adults get to own their triggers.  It's their responsibility to deal with their triggers not hold innocent 3rd parties responsible for the triggers.  She has more hair triggers than the local gun shop, and none of which she owns and deals with like an adult apparently.  It's all on you to use your crystal ball to find out the trigger exists, then walk in eggshells around it or suffer the consequences and her wrath if your crystal ball is fogged in or getting poor reception at that moment.

Wow brother you really know how to pick'em.

One more time around the moon, I guess,

Lp
if people won’t listen to you, there’s no point in talking to people. If they won’t listen, you’re just banging your head against a wall.

Sadly Ive used up all the time I had allotted to spend banging my head on the wall

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2019, 02:19:39 PM »
Texts at that time of night (short of an emergency) cost you sleep and that's over the top inconsiderate.
There's way too many trust issues she hasn't dealt with.

Being understanding on your end is Ok but she has some other issues. Like what she think you haven't had friendships or acquaintances  with women at your age? Both of you have a past and that has to be accepted or what's the point?.You have an ex you still have to deal with.

Yes T relationships are hard work. But this "break up make up" with her ought to be raising some flags.

And I modified this post to add: What Law Professor said..yep..
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 02:23:09 PM by in it »
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline Anjae

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2019, 02:38:38 PM »
Hello LP, nice to read you.

That is manipulation and control not love.

Codependency. 

This. I have said pretty much all I think of your relationship with this woman several times. You know where I stand. No need to repeat myself.

Wow brother you really know how to pick'em.

Glad to know I am not the only one who thinks it and says it.

T, for some reason, you seem to like these women and the drama that comes with them. Why, I don't know. Or maybe I do, but I not in the mood to be an armchair psychologist. You're a therapist, you most certainly know it better than most of us.

Agree with In It, texts at that time of the night only for emergencies.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2019, 03:06:55 PM »
I am sorry this is going to be hard to read, like so many of the other posts here...but I don't think that is good.

Honestly reading your post I was shocked. It sounds like dealing with a MLCer to be honest. And it felt (pure speculation obviously) that she made some big declaration to get rid of this ex...then used you liking a picture as an excuse to get out of it.

Then digging at you about not loving you or not wanting you on a trip as punishment? Ouch.

Yeah that's really not cool.

And as a young woman who get's periods...still way over the top! Sure you might get a bit weepy or emotional over cat commercials or whatever...but starting a text war over a FB like?! No...
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline forthetrees

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2019, 07:06:44 PM »
T,
Unless you have training for how to move through a mine field, it´s time to think about your own well-being first.

Maybe she is the one for you- after she deals with her own issues. She is a reactor not a responder and I have to wonder if alcohol use took place between your date and the late night text. I would think that being an LBS teaches one patience and emotional equanimity. She seems to have missed out on those lessons. In a way she has given you a gift- her reaction to your FB like was so over the top that you now have an easy exit from the relationship.

me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2019, 04:07:50 AM »
Thank you all, and it’s so great to hear from LP, FTT and other old friends who’ve been there for me throughout all the ups and downs.  Nothing but love for you all. 

Now the big question is whether it’s salvageable or not.  Of course I want to think it is because I love her and honestly believe she loves me.  Alcohol was definitely a factor that night because she had two beers at dinner and I’m sure had a few afterward.  She is trying to cut back and said she hadn’t had any for a week and I believe her as she is honest to a fault.  Several factors probably played into her lashing out but insecurity had to be at the forefront.  She invited me over tonight as we had planned and I’m sure that’s where she’ll apologize for her actions and will give me the opening for a heart-to-heart about relationship rules and boundaries.  Past experience has shown that she is open to feedback and has worked to make changes that I’ve asked her to make.  She doesn’t complain about her XH’s anymore, the past rarely comes up and we haven’t “broken up” in over 3 months as  told her the next time would be the last.  I can see that i’ve allowed behaviors I shouldn’t have due to over-relating  and honoring the friendship we had before we started dating.  But that needs to stop as the closer we get and the more enmeshed we become in each other’s families the greater impact a bad break-up will have.  She treats my kids like gold whether she’s mad at me or not and is a very good influence on D18 as a strong and educated career woman, but I definitely wouldn’t want the kids to see that side of her.  I’m going to make a list based on what you guys have pointed out as well as my good friend and fellow therapist who stated his belief that my Virgo-derived kindness and big heart cause me to self-sacrifice much more than I should.  But, in fairness, I’m sure gf could write paragraphs about me and why I’m difficult to be in a relationship with.  God knows I can be very difficult at times, too!

Peace to you all.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2019, 04:18:33 AM »
Omg your a Virgo?
What is she?
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2019, 04:40:18 AM »
She’s an Aries.  Her birthday is 1 week from today.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2019, 04:54:08 AM »
I'm laughing my rear off as I post this. ;D ;D
I'll bet I could write a few paragraphs and tell you why you might be difficult to be in a relationship with..
Just trying to lighten things up.
Self reflection is a good thing.
None of us are perfect, but there are people who can be more more compatible.

Virgos and Saggitarius are a couple that don't work.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 04:56:41 AM by in it »
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline lawprofessor

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2019, 05:12:51 AM »
Ummmm, I'm a Sagittarius. 

You difficult?  I don't see it. 😉

Lp

if people won’t listen to you, there’s no point in talking to people. If they won’t listen, you’re just banging your head against a wall.

Sadly Ive used up all the time I had allotted to spend banging my head on the wall

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2019, 05:27:32 AM »
I am an Aries. And well I react before responding so... :-[

It is a work in progress to be fair.

But my devil sister is a Virgo. We really don't get on. Complete opposites!
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2019, 05:29:00 AM »
Nahh..we aren't difficult LP.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline Anjae

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2019, 06:09:34 AM »
Now the big question is whether it’s salvageable or not.

Is the Titanic salvageable?  ???


There are several Aires and several Libras in the family. They are all totally different. Sun sign alone doesn't mean much. Emotions are run by the moon, not Sun sign.

Rising sun, Venus, Mars, etc. also play an important part. It is the Rising sign, not the Sun sign, we show the world.

Sagittarius don't tend to be difficult, they tend to be full of life. They also tend to be blunt, straightfoward and get along with everyone.

Capricorns and Saggitarius are a couple that does not work, yet Mr J and I did for 20 years. I'm a Saggitarius rising, however. And Mr J is not a blunt and straightfoward Saggitarius.

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline lawprofessor

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2019, 06:43:18 AM »
Now the big question is whether it’s salvageable or not.

Is the Titanic salvageable?  ???


Hi Anjae, just popping on, not a return to posting.  I refuse to spend my time blowing sunshine up the proverbial posterior and supporting harmful advice which seems to abound on HS of late, in my opinion.  Good to see you still fighting the good fight as it were. 

Best and funniest quote I've read in a long long time on HS!!!!

Thundarr, you wrote me almost that exact sentiment some years ago but good luck with that plan and bring an umbrella as the love bombing will begin shortly.  I wait with baited breath to see how this turns out to be twisted in to your fault with her being the injured party that is having triggers and you just need to understand and help save her.

Lp
if people won’t listen to you, there’s no point in talking to people. If they won’t listen, you’re just banging your head against a wall.

Sadly Ive used up all the time I had allotted to spend banging my head on the wall

Offline Airmid

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2019, 07:20:05 AM »
Thundarr -
In December when you and I corresponded you wrote to me...

Quote
She is risky, but she does have a track record to go by since I've known her for a few years and several co-workers have known her even longer.  If I had just met her a few months ago I would have bolted after the first time.

So you have known for some time now that this woman has some serious red flags.
I personally think she has more red flags than China.

Lets start with the biggest flag - the woman is an active alcoholic.
You stated this in your own posts.  Somewhere you described her as a functioning alcoholic.
You are a therapist - you know from training that no one can save an alcoholic except themselves.
She need to go to AA.
And what does AA tell the recently recovering alcoholic?
"Don't enter into a romantic relationship for at least a year".

You know this - but for others who read this and may not know...
Alcoholism is a disease of the attitudes as well as a physical disease.
This means that active alcoholics and recently recovering alcoholics have unhealthy behaviors.
They are addictive personalities and need to learn how to deal with those personality issues.
The fact that this woman is not directly addressing her addiction (but instead is trying to cut back on her own) is an indication that the problems you are facing will not go away.

If she is truly an alcoholic - and does not address the root causes for her drinking she may end up as a "dry drunk"

Quote
"Someone struggling with dry drunk syndrome may still maintain strained relationships with their loved ones. They may still suffer from unhealthy habits, both internally and externally. In short, while they may have quit drinking, the individual has yet to deal with the emotional baggage that led them to alcohol in the first place. Dry drunk syndrome is more common among individuals who quit their addiction on their own, as they do not have a professional support team to guide them through this difficult change in their life.
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/alcoholism-treatment/dry-drunk

Other red flags include her possessiveness and extreme jealousy.
This indicates serious issues with her personal maturity.

She most certainly is manipulating you.
She knows what buttons to push.
I do hope you are joking about the zodiac issues (I assume you are).
You say you have a big heart.
While that may be true, you lack personal boundaries and you let your big heart turn you into a big doormat.

Come on T - you are a therapist for God's sake!
You know that good self care involves healthy boundaries.

What is truly going on here?
Are you so enamoured that this woman has indicated she wants to marry you that you are willing to overlook every red flag?

I know relationship territory is difficult after BD.
Sure it is nice to have a partner to share things with, to be intimate with.
But it seems to me like you are overlooking every warning sign.

Ask yourself this -
if your teenager came to you and said...

"Dad, I met this really great guy - he has a few kinks - like he is an alcoholic, and he has irrational behavior tham makes him text me angry texts in the middle of the night.  And he insists that all my Facebook "likes" are an indication of my feelings and commitment to him..." 

How would you counsel your daughter? 
Just think about that.








Offline STP

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2019, 07:23:52 AM »
Great post Airmid.

Jumping back in. You're in for wild ride Thundarr and I've never had a good feeling about this one. I want you to be happy which means no drama. There is WAY TOO MUCH scrutiny of you under her magnifying glass. Judging, analyzing, controlling, with unkept emotion. Are either of you saying "I'm sorry" once a week? I don't have much to say but jaw drop ata therapist who believes in astrology?

I have am extreme dislike for astrology. Begin Rant. Why would WHERE the stars are in the sky have ANY impact on ones personality? WTF!
• There is no force, known or unknown, that could possibly affect us here on Earth the way astrologers claim.  Known forces weaken too fast, letting one source utterly dominate (the Moon for gravity, the Sun for electromagnetism).  An unknown force would allow asteroids and extrasolar planets to totally overwhelm the nearby planets.
• Like psychics, astrologers tend to rely on human’s ability to remember “hits” and forget ”misses” – a form of selective bias.  Even accurate predictions may be due to simple chance. My groceries came out to exactly $18.00! Am I lucky? No, stop it.
• Study after study has shown that claims and predictions made by astrologers have no merit. They are indistinguishable from chance, which means astrologers cannot claim to have some ability to predict anyone’s life’s path or destiny.
• There is harm in astrology.  It weakens people’s ability to rationally look at the world, an ability we need now more than ever. Listen.

Say Yes to more Astronomers and No to Astrologers. End Rant.
M52 XW51
S26, S24, S19, S17
BDs 11-09 & 4-16
D 10-16

You are responsible for your own happiness!

Offline Anjae

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2019, 07:27:51 AM »
I refuse to spend my time blowing sunshine up the proverbial posterior and supporting harmful advice which seems to abound on HS of late, in my opinion. 

Makes two. Think we could use a bit of LP around here.  :)

Airmid, T wrote all the red flags, including the woman's excessive drinking and his doubts on his threads. I and a couple others pointed things to him. There was a huge metdown last November with the woman, some texts, if I recall well. Then it was all "fine" again, then it was not, the it was.

I was probably the one who insisted the most on the red flags. Doubt there is anything we can do, T seems to like these relationships. You probably need to bang your head once more, T.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2019, 08:41:34 AM »
Hello,

I am a Taurus, I am pretty much compatible with anything that feeds me. I also operate under the moon of absolute lunacy which speaks for my silly side. My father once asked the doctor, "Why is he so silly?" The doctor replied, "Don't worry, he'll grow out of it." My dad has been waiting for 48 years. I'm 53. Still hasn't happened by MLC almost turned the trick.

Enough about me. I think STP and I agree on Astrology. Fun, but completely useless. If you want a true source of information and guidance, I strongly urge all of you to buy a magic eight ball. They are much more reliable.

I am not going to pile on to the posts that everyone has written. I think they have all done a great job of all the flags of the relationship.

So I thing you need to ask yourself the following questions:

1. What is the true current state of your relationship? Be honest.
2. Where would you like the relationship to go?
3. What principles or boundaries will guide your journey to where you want the relationship to go?
4. What barriers do you forsee?
5. What works needs to be done?
6. Can We select a plan that will work for both of us?
7. Can we adjust our plan to meet our goal?

Anjae posted can the Titianic be salvaged. Yes, it can but is it worth the price?

Quote
Hi Anjae, just popping on, not a return to posting.  I refuse to spend my time blowing sunshine up the proverbial posterior and supporting harmful advice which seems to abound on HS of late, in my opinion.

Interesting comment. If I saw bad advice going out, I would be the first to speak up. I am not always right, not even close. Last year, I predicted the Broncos would be a wild card team. Yeah, right. Why not post?, as a law professor you know: qui tacet consentire videtur "He who is silent taken to agree"

((((Ready)))))

"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline xyzcf

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2019, 09:36:01 AM »
Quote
I am not always right, not even close. Last year, I predicted the Broncos would be a wild card team.

Oh I WISH!!!!!


Thundaar, you do know that that Catechism of the Catholic church is against astrology.

I must cast my vote on what others are saying to you...this woman seems to have many many issues...getting mad at you for liking someone's picture on fb? I shudder to think what she would do if you really did something she found "wrong".
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Anjae

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2019, 09:44:23 AM »
I think STP and I agree on Astrology. Fun, but completely useless.

Nothing wrong with some harmless light fun.  :)


Anjae posted can the Titianic be salvaged. Yes, it can but is it worth the price?

It can? Uhhh... didn't it sunk and was broke by crashing against an iceberg? I know what you mean, if can be brought back to the surface, repaired, etc. No one in their right mind would do it.


... as a law professor you know: qui tacet consentire videtur "He who is silent taken to agree"

Or in Portuguese, "Quem Cala Consente". On the other hand we also have "O Silêncio é de Ouro" (Silence is Gold), meaning at times, if no often, it is better to keep things for ourselves.

Thundarr, take a step back and think. You liked some innocent posts on Facebook from a woman who you have known for 35 years. Does it seems logical to you the lady you are involved with does what she did for such an innocent thing?
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline lawprofessor

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #52 on: March 29, 2019, 09:56:36 AM »

Interesting comment. If I saw bad advice going out, I would be the first to speak up. I am not always right, not even close. Last year, I predicted the Broncos would be a wild card team. Yeah, right. Why not post?, as a law professor you know: qui tacet consentire videtur "He who is silent taken to agree"

((((Ready)))))



Good morning Ready,

Yes, I'm familiar with the phrase.  In my case I've already spent years here presenting my opinions related to MLC.  I've handled 17 divorces for LBS's in those years to the best of my recollection and at my own expense.  4 couples have reconciled that I spent time with.  Lastly, I've spent countless hours on the phone with LBS's talking through problems.

And now I'm tired and frankly bored with MLC.

I find that I disagree with many parts of the advice given here and the focus of too many posters.

1. Focus on paving the way-generally the biggest time waster for anyone beginning this journey.

2. "Let him own the divorce." Too many have lost everything following that advice. I own my divorce-my ex owns the consequences. And the consequences are what matter in the long run for both the MLCer and the LBS.

3. Lack of focus on things that were core when I began. Working and focusing on yourself rather than "pain, pain, pain." Job, volunteer, activities, hobbies, education, rebuilding self esteem, self care, GAL, mirror work, family, dreams, defining ones self and goals.

4."It takes as long as it takes." Yes, and no. Yes, healing takes time but sitting down and doing nothing other than focusing on pain, pain, pain does nothing to shorten the time to healing for everyone involved.

5. Misconstruing the idea of blame vs owning a portion of actions. I wrote a long time ago that for me healing took place when I faced my part in the crisis. I got shrieking responses as to how his crisis was only about him, that they (posters) weren't responsible for anything.  In my view that's childish and immature.  I was an active participant in my marriage. I became a fixer. I fed into and allowed or accepted certain behaviors of his that fed the seeds already planted for the MLC.  I own that.  That's where I needed to focus.  Not the screams that it's not my fault. No one said it's the LBS's fault the MLCer had a MLC. But nothing happens in a vacuum.

6.  Continue to contact the MLCer even if told by the MLCer to stop or by the OP.  Just dead wrong and unnecessary on a dozen levels, especially for any but those on the clingy end of the spectrum.  Legally, the LBS puts themselves in jeopardy of criminal charges.  Takes the focus off healing oneself. Reassures the MLCer they can take another trip around the moon and their old safety net will still be there waiting. Lack of respect and dignity. Acting like the very thing the LBS hates-the OP, which I refuse to lower myself to do for anyone. Lacking self respect. Appears to be weak and desperate, just what the MLCer wanted to leave. On and on. Unnecessary because if the MLCer is going to come back, he will find a way, not because the LBS chased him, but because he made the choice and the effort. A man makes effort, a boy looks for the easy way.  If it's meant to be, if it's Gods will, it will happen regardless of one's ham handed attempts to control an outcome.

7. The inability of some to distinguish between disagreeing with a post and personal attacks that speaks to a core level of reactivity and immaturity, the pampered, spoiled wife syndrome.

Those are some of my personal core differences as to the focus of HS at this time. In my estimation, the gap is not bridgeable based on my years of trying to do just that.  Therefore, I've chosen not to disrespect RCR, bang my head on any more walls, and closed the chapter on my time here, except for a few dropin's when the mood strikes.

Best to you all,

Lp
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 10:01:55 AM by OldPilot »
if people won’t listen to you, there’s no point in talking to people. If they won’t listen, you’re just banging your head against a wall.

Sadly Ive used up all the time I had allotted to spend banging my head on the wall

Offline Busy_Bee

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #53 on: March 29, 2019, 10:08:28 AM »
LP,
great minds think alike
1-6 - YES!!!
I have nothing to add.

Offline xyzcf

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #54 on: March 29, 2019, 10:15:11 AM »
Agree totally LP..thanks for the reminders!
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Acorn

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #55 on: March 29, 2019, 10:28:58 AM »
LP, thanks for your very refreshing remarks. Call a spade, a spade.  Absolutely.

It is possible that some of us may be focusing too much on validating LBS and not pay enough attention to constructive criticism and advice.  Isn’t that what we are supposed to do to MLCers, not to other LBSs?


Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Anjae

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2019, 10:36:21 AM »
My answer would be similar to LP's on why not speaking up/posting more, aside from handling divorces (unlike LP I am not a lawyer), spend countless hours on the phone with LBS (not something I deal well with) and spending time with HS couples (I don't know anyone from HS in real life).

I was a tech mod for years on end on HS and did my share of work so that HS was in funcioning order for LBS to have a place to post, vent, etc.

Like LP I am tired of MLC. In my case, for many different reasons. I am also tired of getting "burned" and being called nasty things when I say things like they are, several of which similar to the points LP gave.

LP  and I do not agree on everything, we never did, but on some matters we have similar views. I am a softer, but also straitfoward. Of late, HS does seem to be more of a lets just pat the back of LBS no matter what than a place for learning, healing, and, yes, 2x4 when necessary.

You know, Ready, at times people do tire. Also, our lives change. And we have long learned a person only changes if they want to/are ready for it.

Years of HS and real life MLC situations tell me there is nothing we can do about the MLCer. LP is totally right, it the MLCer wants back, they find a way back. Come on, Mr J managed to e-mailed me. He is one of the nastiester MLCer on HS and I think the one who has been in crisis for long. He still e-mailed. No, he didn't want back, but it was him who got in contact.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing right in calling names and being rude/nasty towards the MLCer. Getting away is a much better and healthier option. With clingers it is complicated because, well, they cling. Mr J was a master clinger after BD and for years after. I had to cut him off for my own sake. Like I said above, he still found a way of contacting me.


There is nothing wrong with validating LBS when it makes sense. There are a million wrong things  with validate whatever a LBS does, even when the LBS does illegal things. We are not here to put LBS down, but to advice, signal red flags, question, and, of course, help and support. However, help and support aren't always saying yes/pat on the back.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 10:38:18 AM by Anjae »
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Treasur

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #57 on: March 29, 2019, 10:39:43 AM »
1. Absolutely
2. Wish I had done so in Sept 2016 when I toyed with it bc I would have had more control of the process.
3. Yes...but was rubbish at it for a long time...I think there are things you can't do while you are feeling in shock but radical self care is the only way to salvation after that. But I am holding my hand up to admit I didn't do this and it made more damage and mess for me.
4. Also yes. But with an ish. I believe lots of LBS suffer from deep trauma and need professional treatment for it. Untreated trauma keeps us stuck.
5. Yes. Taking off our rose coloured glasses tends to come with time and kicks. I never believed I caused my h's breakdown but I did contribute to some of the context that made life hard before it and in things I was niave about and behaviours i didn't challenge. The stuff we learn to survive what happens means that hopefully most of us will behave rather differently in a new relationship. And getting out of victimhood when we blame others we can't control is a lifesaver.
6. Yes. The rule of 3 and the delights of doing nothing. NC as a way of healing and protecting yourself. And tbh the futility of talking rationally to crazy just keeps you in a losing and exhausting game anyway. My life improved dramatically when I chose NC...and the recent blip just reinforces that. I think LP is right...if they want to return they will feel as strong a compulsion as they did to run. And if they don't you are better off without them bc they are no longer your kind of people.
7. And yes. Compassion for the reality that newbies come here reeling and are not always emotionally ready to hear what they read is one thing. Venting at other posters or personal attacks is just immature and helps no one. And surviving and rebuilding requires each of us to take responsibility for our own behaviour anyway, so it should be the same here. I hope the new policy will nip it in the bud more quickly though.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #58 on: March 29, 2019, 11:20:21 AM »
Wow.....it's been many years since one of my threads evoked such spirited and intellectual debate (from all corners of the world, in fact!  Where's  Stayed to chime in?) but everything posted here is great stuff for vets and newbies alike.

First off though, I want to be clear that I do NOT believe in astrology whatsoever.  I only added the part about being a Virgo because of what my colleague said.  I have brought up in my groups several times how absurd the whole concept is in fact.

Gf and I have been texting this morning and she said she can tell that something is bothering me or something's off and it has her concerned.  I told her we would talk about it at length tonight but I don't want to break things off with her unless she refuses to make the needed changes.  I know that I also have things I need to change about myself and the way I go about things as I can be quite difficult in my own ways so it's not all her.  The main thing will be how our visions for the future correlate with each other and whether we are both willing to do the work to achieve the possible positive outcomes we desire from this relationship.  I'm not blinded by love and we have both agreed in the past that things not working out is a definite possibility and that we can part ways as friends if it's not working, but she has indicated that she is committed and wants to do whatever it takes for things to work out so we'll see.  She also clarified that she was not jealous or thinking I had any interest in the other woman but just sees her as a mortal enemy due to the things the women did in the past.  D26 worked with the woman a couple years ago and has no use for her whatsoever as well, saying much the same thing as gf did.  Gf knows that I have a few female friends who I've slept with on FB and doesn't question me about them or even ask who they are, but she does put way too much thought into FB at times.  She has the two exes from her mid-20's that I wouldn't mind if she deleted but they are in Texas and Alaska so at least they're not going to be dropping in on her.  My mind still struggles with a great deal of fears that I need to work through and that manifest at times as things I have little patience with or when I get short with her.  As I said, I'm only posting one side of the story and I know she probably has quite a list of things I need to improve on two.  We are two imperfect people in an imperfect world and whether or not we are or can be what's best for each other will be something we will both have to find out when we get there.  I'll definitely be using Ready's list and LP and the others' observations as a template in our deep discussion tonight.

Peace to you all.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

Offline lawprofessor

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2019, 11:55:22 AM »

It is possible that some of us may be focusing too much on validating LBS and not pay enough attention to constructive criticism and advice.  Isn’t that what we are supposed to do to MLCers, not to other LBSs?


Good afternoon Acorn,

No, I would not say we are supposed to be validating the LBS and offering constructive criticism to the MLCer.  2 part response. The 2 work together, not either or.

Validation is important especially in the beginning to the new LBS.  However:

Everything needs balance. One without the other is ineffective at best and toxic at the other extreme.

Validation can be so easy and can lack substance. Everyone likes you when you tell them how right they are.  Thats all about ego and a conflict avoidant personality which is unbalanced and patently unhealthy, something that played a part in bringing many of us to this point in our lives and is something one has the opportunity to adjust.  Years ago we went through a time when newbies and others farther along complained they heard nothing in response other than trite phrases like, oh you sound strong! Nothing substantive, just lots of feel good exclamation points.   

Validate but encourage direction and growth, which includes constructive criticism.  The encouragement of growth and direction is absolutely lacking in my opinion.

As to the 2nd half of your statement concerning offering constructive criticism to the MLCer.  I think the idea of constructive criticism is often confused with setting ones own boundaries.  In the beginning, the MLCer likely isn't interested and could be or is even angry and or rebellious when the LBS tries to give them constructive criticism.  It smacks of being parental and controlling.  It's also used too often by the LBS in relation to the MLCer, and is a convenient excuse by the LBS for not learning to detach and still being a controlling fixer.  Much later on, it could be useful, depending on the case/issue.

Nothing is a case of either or. 

THE OW validates the heck out of the MLCer.  Is that useful to his healing or growth?  Nope.  It's toxic long term.  I'd rather not do anything like what the OW does. 

Lp
if people won’t listen to you, there’s no point in talking to people. If they won’t listen, you’re just banging your head against a wall.

Sadly Ive used up all the time I had allotted to spend banging my head on the wall

Offline Anjae

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2019, 11:58:36 AM »
Mortal enemy? How old is the lady you're seeing? They had a conflict ten years ago. That is their business, not yours. And it does not excuse the texts, let alone the hour they were sent. She could had tell you about her upset today. She reacts to things, she does not think nor waits.

There was no emergency, yet she went crazy.

I am sorry, T, but it is always the same thing. A text will come, she is drunk, she didn't mean to do it, she is sorry, etc. It goes around and around and around.

No one is perfect. The woman you're dating as been showing for months on end she does not have it together. You always fall for her excuses.

I agree with LP that you are worthy more than this. I also think you still need to heal and work on yourself and that it may be better if you do it alone, no woman in your life.


THE OW validates the heck out of the MLCer.  Is that useful to his healing or growth?  Nope.  It's toxic long term.  I'd rather not do anything like what the OW does. 

Validating for me has nothing to do with OW/validate crazy stuff. It has to do with, for example, validate Treasur yellow roses, patio, allotment, someone doing good, healthy things for themselves. It does include validation of absurd stuff.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Acorn

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2019, 12:11:47 PM »
Thank you, LP, for your comment.
I see that I was as clear as mud with my statement.  O dear...

What I meant was that we can focus too much on validating, and spend too little time in giving constructive advice to LBS on HS.  (Validate when it’s called for.  Don’t shy away from giving honest and constructive advice.)

We are told to validate when MLCer decides to talk about his mental state, R, whatever.  Stay away from advising, debating, explaining.   Hence, my comment that ‘a lot of validating and little advice’ is for MLCers, not LBS (not a newbie, of course).

I hope it’s less muddy now.

Your comment is very helpful in any case. 




« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 12:15:08 PM by Acorn »
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Online in it

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2019, 02:40:49 PM »
Wow lots of great posts here since page 5..

Great to see you post Lp and Airmid..wow long time no hear from.
Hey STP lighten up! I don't take astrology totally seriously But I can tell you this:

If my SO had been a Virgo I would have ended it before it got started. So there may be nothing to it? But I'm not taking any chances.

Thundarr I really think you are attracting women who need fixing in some aspect and as we all VERY WELL  know here you cannot fix what's wrong with someone else. You cannot make her feel secure..you cannot reassure her enough. She has to have that within herself..you cannot give that to her.

So unless you like drama, which is OK some people do, I think I'd end this thing. But I wouldn't come here complaining about drama if that's  what you want. And if you choose to stay in this realtionship more than likely that's what you will get. I agree she has a drinking problem which she needs to address.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline Nas

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2019, 07:15:35 AM »
Interesting discussions going on here, both in regards to Thundarr’s current situation and the current climate on the forum.
I’ve recently seen some a few examples of unhealthy behavior that has alarmed me: responders who are in Uber fixer mode, boundary crossing among LBSs.
I think it’s important that we are able to shine a light on these things, but it seems we really can’t anymore without being lambasted as judgmental and lacking empathy.

Thundarr, I’ve just been reading about your situation. I agree with others that the alcohol dependence is a major obstacle to a healthy relationship. A functioning alcoholic is still very much an alcoholic, and in some respects it can be worse because they are functioning and it’s easier for them to gaslight and make those around them question the reality of their concerns.

If I knew nothing else about her, I would say the issue with you liking something on Facebook in and if itself presents a major red flag. In all my years of marriage in the age of social media, I’m not sure I ever even took notice of what my partner was liking or commenting on. To place such importance on a simple “like” seems to indicate very deep insecurity.

I think you’re getting very good sound advice here.
Married 8 years at BD, together 16.
BD March 2015
H moved out July 2015
I found out about OW March 2016 (She went to high school with H, long distance EA since September 2014, became PA November 2015)
H moved 1100 miles to live with OW June 2016
I was diagnosed with advanced breast cancer June 2017
H became a vanisher

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2019, 03:30:57 PM »
Thank you all.  Well I had the serious talk with gf as planned and just as I expected it went very well.  She acknowledged overreacting and that lashing out in that way was very childish and assured me it would not happen again.  No blaming of me or making excuses.  This led to a very good talk about boundaries and non-negotiables as well as our underlying insecurities and concerns.  We ended up having a terrific night together watching a horror movie and eating at her place.

I know I don’t need to defend my relationship choices here but I also don’t want to paint her as a bad person.  The little things that she does shows me that she really does love me and cares about my kiddos.  She often buys me things unexpected or gives me things she has extra of along with stepping up and helping with my kids.  I’ll admit my experiences with relationship love have mostly been with XW, but unless gf is reading from the fake love playbook I’d say she’s legit.  Her phone background is us and she treasures everything I’ve ever given her.  If this isn’t love then I really don’t know what is, and most of our time together is completely drama free as we go to movies, eat out occasionally and mostly hang out at her place.  An argument every few weeks or months doesn’t seem like too big a deal, and as long as she keeps her word and respects the boundaries when we do I’m okay with it.

As far as her being “broken” I would say that’s too extreme.  I learned more last night about what she’s been through and how it’s made her stronger but she freely acknowledges the need to let go of the past.  She HAS made progress but has been through a lot.  Her first marriage ended after 11 years but should have much sooner as her XH was convicted of spousal batted and other things I won’t mention that resulted in him being demoted from a SSG to an airman and in today’s world would have landed him in prison.  He got kicked out of the Air Force shortly after their D for similar things toward another woman.  She tried to divorce him sooner but the JAG office talked her into staying married 10 years so she and the kids would get part of his retirement but he lost all that with the Dishonorable.  OP will know what I’m talking about.   Gf still gets upset when talking about it but states she uses her experiences to help her clients in DV situations.  We are going on a trip to visit her son next weekend for her 50th birthday and she mentioned how letting go of her past would be the best present she could give herself.  Hopefully the trip will be life-changing in a good way and I’m not giving up on her, or at least not yet.

Peace to you all.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #65 on: April 03, 2019, 06:54:40 AM »
Things continue to go well despite my growing anxiety about our upcoming weekend trip as it will be the first time we've been together even 24 hours straight, much less 72.  It will be a test of our relationship for sure but it is our first trip out of state alone and a chance to create new adventures together.  It's her first vacation in several years and I do feel honored to be spending her 50th birthday with her.  Best of all she insisted on splitting all the expenses down the middle, with the exception of her birthday dinner of course, and it will be the first vacation that I've been on since I was a kid that I wasn't driving.  We may split that some way as well but she stated that she is perfectly comfortable driving the entire way as she used to commute back and forth from Texas to Ky after her first divorce.  It will be different and interesting to say the least.

We had another long talk Saturday night and I brought up my concerns about her drinking and let her know that if we do eventually co-habitate I would not be comfortable with my kids seeing her drink to excess.  In fairness, I don't know that she drinks every night and she claims it's only 2-3 nights a week.  There have been times that I stayed over and neither of us drank anything and we were perfectly fine.  We also usually spend the mornings together when I stay over and she's the same as the night before.  She admits to having at least some dependence as she does tend to crave it when she gets home after a long and stressful day, but pointed out that she never drank while pregnant and only about half the time when we're out does she even have a drink at a restaurant, and then only two at most.  We talked about being responsible for one's behaviors whether drinking or not and she wholeheartedly agreed and stated that she wouldn't want me to ever give her a pass or feel as if I'm walking on eggshells.  The argument about what's the harm if one drinks as long as one is taking care of their responsibilities and not harming anyone is a valid one, although we both agreed it would be nice if she spent less on beer each week.  Not my business at this time and she's a grown woman who can do what she wants but I will be monitoring for any further signs of it impacting our relationship.  We have too many positives for me to just up and bail but I am at a point where I know I'll be okay whether we work out or not and so will she.  That's a life lesson learned the hard way through XW's MLC and one I'll carry with me for life.

Speaking of XW, she has been doing a pretty good job of being a grandmother although her parenting is still very lacking.  She's on vacation this week and the kids are on Spring Break but my first reaction was that she timed her vacation to put up the image that she was taking it off to spend with the kids.  She did spend Monday with them and told them she would pick them up yesterday but balked reportedly due to having a headache and not feeling like hanging out with them. Today she is supposed to pick them up again but we'll see if that happens.  My other concern with her is that she has stopped paying anything other than the child support that is garnished out of her wages.  Gf and I have talked since we've known each other about how I should hold her more accountable but other than taking her back to court to pay her half of the medical expenses there's really nothing I can do as things like band are not covered under educational expenses, or at least I don't think they are.  Gf encouraged me to check with my lawyer to see what my options are as it's not fair to the kids or me that I have to either take care of everything or they do without and that I have to work extra on-call shifts just to cover what XW is not.  Such is the life of an LBS but perhaps it's way past time to draw the line and upset the balance for a change.  Thoughts?

Peace to you all.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

Offline OldPilot

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #66 on: April 03, 2019, 07:01:15 AM »
Is your profile correct about the ages of your kids?

I thought they were older and if that is the case is it really worth it for the amount of years left until they are out of high school?

Online in it

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #67 on: April 03, 2019, 07:21:27 AM »
One thing I learned in a school I had to attend due to a DWAI when I was 30 was.
The minute alcohol interferes in any aspect of your life, you have a drinking problem.

It's also said you really don't know anyone - however when you travel with them you get to know them a bit better.
Have a safe trip.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2019, 03:20:42 PM »
OP, it’s outdated.  The kids are D26, D18 and S14.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #69 on: April 03, 2019, 04:37:30 PM »
Hello,

I do agree with the trip as a measurement of the relationship. Just finished the first part of a conference trip with my wife. Got up early and hit the road before 5 am to beat LA traffic. Breakfast at Santa Barbara and we ate sandwiches we brought with us in our room at Pismo Beach. They upgraded our room to a full ocean view and it is stunning. I exercised in the room since they don't have a fitness center. Now I am off to register for the conference, attend a class, then reception, and finish with Sushi with her tonight.

Every relationship has it pros and cons. Eventually, you have to make the determination on basic traits of the person with the truth, can I live with this? You are not going to change the other person. Part of the relationship is acceptance and love of their faults.

With that said, emotional abuse is just like physical abuse and while the bruises fade, the sting of angry words last for years. I am still particular concerned about her comment that "you and your ex deserve each other." That was particularly mean and cutting. It was stated not to make a point, it was to throw a verbal punch.

I don't care if she buys things for you or your kids, if it is done to pay back abusive behavior. What would you tell your daughter if she was being abused by a boyfriend and she told you, "But its okay Dad, he's nice to you!"

Of the many people I want to find joy and peace in a rewarding relationship is you! Even during my down and out times, I thought about you and hoped that all was well with you. I was just spent and I had to focus on my own survival. Besides, I was of little use to post as I was just an angry man. But I still hoped for you.

Please don't let this woman or any other person abuse you in any fashion. You deserve better.

Fist bump,

Ready
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #70 on: April 03, 2019, 07:54:07 PM »
Thank you, my friend, and know that you’ve been on my mind over the years as well.  I never forget a good turn and those who have helped me along the way.

The other night was an anomaly in our relationship as it was the first time she has ever lashed out in such a way and I recognize it was from a point of hurt.  I fired back at her but stopped short of attacking her as that’s not who I am.  I will not tolerate emotional abuse and made it clear that would be the last time and she stated understanding.  I meant it wholeheartedly.  Her being hurt in the past did not and will not justify mistreating me and that works both ways.  In fact our 3 relationship rules are honesty, no cheating and treating each other right and all 3 go both ways.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

Offline forthetrees

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #71 on: April 03, 2019, 09:24:38 PM »
I´ve been thinking about the phrase "functioning alcoholic." I don´t know if there´s a DSM definition but I used to think it implied holding down a job. Now, having read your thread, I think it implies to not throwing relationships off kilter. Just because she´s employed does not mean she´s fully functioning. If her drinking leads to upheavals in relationships, it´s a problem.

Last year I had the honor of meeting someone who decided to travel the journey of sobriety. This person is now past the one year mark and boy oh boy was it (and is it) a hard journey but so worth it.

Hopefully your travels unravel more mysteries. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2019, 06:55:53 AM »
Well our weekend away is over and I honestly don't believe it could have possibly gone any better. An absolute 10/10.   We left our a little later than planned on Friday and made it to Wisconsin just in time for dinner and a drink with her son, grandson and son's girlfriend.  We hit it off right from the start as we are into many of the same things and developed a quick rapport that lasted throughout.  He has a hobby of craft beer and is an avowed foodie so he knew the best restaurants and taught us a great deal about beer making and the differences between the mainstream brands and the local and specialty brews.  It was great fun and it quickly became obvious that drinking is much more a family cultural thing than something to be  hidden.  She never had more than 2 at any of the places we went and I always drove back to the room anyway, and she neither brought beer or had any in the room at all and we had fun throughout.

Overall, the trip did answer many questions for me as we just clicked.  One major positive was that we were able to go more than thirty minutes in the car together without saying a word and were completely comfortable with not breaking the silence until we had something substantial or funny to say. We got along great despite a few minor flare-ups that de-escalated within minutes.  I think I understand her a lot better now and I know I love her even more.  She brought up our conversation about her drinking and asked where I stood on it now.  We came to the agreement that if it's something she enjoys and it's not an every night thing, but most importantly not something that affects me or our relationship or the kids then I'm completely fine with it but if it does become a problem then that will change.  Now that we're at a point where she feels completely safe expressing her feelings and opinions she doesn't let things build up like she used to.  She asked me what the difference was between when we have a disagreement when she's drinking and when we have one when she's not and I honestly couldn't answer that.  She also brought up how she knows she can be over-bearing at times to the point of seeming controlling but I have the same tendencies and realize it's not something we consciously do and are comfortable bringing things like that to each other's attentions.  I still have to work through my own insecurities and doubts that things are as good as they seem and that the other shoe isn't getting ready to drop.  Luckily we can discuss those things with an open mind I can leave them in the past just as she's trying to leave her bad memories.  The funnies thing was her question of when have I ever seen her even pretend to like someone she doesn't as she wears her feelings on her sleeve and has always been told she'd make a terrible poker player so I have no reason not to believe her words and actions.  Ah, the lasting ramifications of MLC....

Peace to you all.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2019, 07:12:02 PM »
Hello,

Good. I want you to have a satisfying relationship. I'm in one and I have learned a lot about myself as well as my new lady.

We are really good friends first. We talk and even argue about everything. However, we fight fair and the love is always present.

Keep working on things, but honor each other's boundaries.

You can do this!

Fist bump,

Ready
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2019, 11:03:09 AM »
Ah, the joys of moving on.  Sarcasm intended there, btw.  My good friend Rebel Yell used to have a saying "Standing ain't for sissies" and boy was he right, but what we all didn't realize was that moving on after having gone through the most insidious and devastating ends of long-term marriages like we have was not for the faint of heart either.  XYZCF once had a thread titled "We are the walking wounded..." and part of me now wonders if we always will be or if the after-effects of BD and the ensuing chaos ever truly goes away.  I post this for all those who are considering ending their stand and who are thinking the grass is greener on the other side.  There IS green grass over here but in many ways it's six of one and half a dozen of another, as we say in the country.

Gf and I have had a great week and a very romantic Friday night together.  We'll be together again tonight and would have been last night if not for my being on call and her having her grand-kids.  She still asked me to come over and hang out but I was too busy with work and she understood.  We continue to move ever closer to each other and I see her inner walls coming down more and more as she seems more at ease than ever and we've learned to talk through our problems and disagreements like mature adults.  It's very refreshing and yet another reminder of how things should have been with XW and what I learned to put up with all the years we were together.  Funny how I was blamed for the entire breakdown of the marriage yet I continue to see more and more reasons why I should have been the one to bail a long time ago.

My problem lies in the fact that I continue to jump at shadows and play mind movies in my head that she will do the same thing that XW did.  I've caught myself more than once being suspicious or jealous and having to remind myself that she and XW are two completely different people.  I know the AWALT (All Women Are Like That) followers would say I have reason to be paranoid, but the fact is that she's open and honest with me and I've never found her to lie or suspected that she was.  If anything, she's more honest than I'm comfortable with at times!  But I keep hearing this whispering in my ear (not literally, I'm not psychotic lol) that tells me she's going to abandon me too or that there is someone else in the picture.  I didn't hear from her for a few hours Friday night and caught myself either fearing that she had plans with someone else or that she was going to message me late that night breaking things off as we usually plan our weekends by that afternoon.  It turns out she worked late and sent me a message to come over whenever I wanted as she knew I was working on-call and that sometimes I can't get to her place until after midnight.  I texted her back but she never answered due to going to bed right after she texted me (she was going to surprise me as she likes when I slip in quietly and try to come to bed without waking her) but her son came home early and locked the deadbolt so my I couldn't get in with my key.  I rang the doorbell and knocked on the door but no one answered and my mind immediately went to her being with someone else and not at home.  I eventually knocked on her bedroom window and she got up and let me in, apologizing for her son having locked me out as he didn't know I was coming over.  I confided to her about how my mind was going places that it shouldn't and she smiled understandingly and we laughed about a similar situation a couple weeks ago when it was her catastrophising.  We're both working on overcoming our insecurities and trust issues and have gotten much better, but I can tell that the closer we get the more stressful things become.  And this time it's really not her.....it's me.

She sent me a song from the band Godsmack entitled "Under Your Scars" and that's now our new theme song as it fits us both perfectly.  It's definitely worth a listen and I'll try to link it here.  It honestly melted my heart as did her mentioning in passing this weekend that she wished she was a few years younger as she regretted we will never have kids together.  That's deep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4O3z39xz28
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2019, 11:24:48 AM »
I'll give you one word:

BAGGAGE

It's a lot of work T.
You have to remember she is she isn't your ex w
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #76 on: April 14, 2019, 09:08:06 PM »
It sounds to me like you have some work to do on yourself. Those voices you're hearing don't mean you're psychotic. Those are injured parts from your childhood. You need to spend some time learning how to listen to, understand, and reassure them. Those voices aren't going to go away on their own.

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #77 on: April 15, 2019, 09:20:19 AM »
Honest to God when I start hearing those voices I become a better PI than the FBI!

It is extremely helpful at times, particularly with a lying cheating MLCer....

But I imagine one day, it will be hard to control and quiet them when they are no longer needed.  :-\
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #78 on: April 15, 2019, 11:20:13 AM »
Hello,

Quote
It sounds to me like you have some work to do on yourself.

Yes, we all are works under progress. What a great post.

Quote
I post this for all those who are considering ending their stand and who are thinking the grass is greener on the other side.  There IS green grass over here but in many ways it's six of one and half a dozen of another, as we say in the country.

I definitely agree with you. After reading many threads, I can assure that reconciliation is a difficult process. It comes down to a matter of:

TRUST

Trust is the very oxygen that breathes life in all our relations and our interactions with others. We trust others as we drive they will stay on their side of the rode. We trust our employers to pay us and they trust us to do the work they asked us to do.

Once trust is lost, it is difficult to build and even more difficult to extend. Especially if you have had your trust destroyed by your MLCer.

In my situation, we both had to work through our trust issues. Both of our exes had cheated on us and it is a very painful betrayal.

She often thought I was spying on her when she was on the phone. I worried about her and the fact that she worked in a field dominated by men (Construction sales). Especially when one of her customers was from England and she commented on his English accent. (My ex had a online and physical affair with a man from England).

It's important to talk through these issues and let the person know your feelings and fears. Communication builds trust. It keeps everyone in the loop and helps reduce anxiety and fear.

Quote
We're both working on overcoming our insecurities and trust issues and have gotten much better, but I can tell that the closer we get the more stressful things become.  And this time it's really not her.....it's me.

Of course, the more you are emotionally invested in the relationship the more exciting the highs are and the more lower the lows become. I dated a girl for a few months after the divorce. We broke up and I was like okay. It wasn't the end of the world because it wasn't bad, but it wasn't really great.

In my new marriage. It was different. Five years later, we are hitting our stride. Still have a lot of work to do. It is both exciting and can be frustrating as well. That's life. Add in four children and it really becomes life!

Quote
It honestly melted my heart as did her mentioning in passing this weekend that she wished she was a few years younger as she regretted we will never have kids together.  That's deep.

Yes that's deep, but in my situation, no....please...no. I love children, love babies, but I love them as long as they belong to someone else.

You are doing fine,

Fist bump,

Ready




"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2019, 12:17:20 PM »
It's important to talk through these issues and let the person know your feelings and fears. Communication builds trust. It keeps everyone in the loop and helps reduce anxiety and fear.

The problem is that sometimes the fear is justified. How do you deal with that? Sometimes an orange really is an orange and sometimes a lack of trust is caused by a lack of trustworthiness.

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #80 on: April 15, 2019, 12:32:20 PM »
I wonder if learning to trust ourselves again is really the heart of it.
To trust our judgment, to trust our ability to hold good boundaries, to trust that we will walk away if we must even if it is hard and to trust that we will be ok even if other bad things happen in our lives.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2019, 12:40:02 PM »
IDK. I'm not sure how learning to trust ourselves helps when we're dealing with so  many other people who can't be trusted.

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #82 on: April 15, 2019, 01:24:11 PM »
Quote
The problem is that sometimes the fear is justified. How do you deal with that? Sometimes an orange really is an orange and sometimes a lack of trust is caused by a lack of trustworthiness.

I totally get that. So do you commit to a relationship with a person you don't trust? Especially if they lack trustworthiness?

I understand MLC and the bomb drop. That is the devastation of trust in what were harmonious marriages. Reconciliation only occurs when the couple decide to re-establish trust. And that takes a lot of work and driving the fear out.

Whether its reconciliation or a new relationship- without trust, what do you have?

Fist bump,

Ready

PS- Great discussion. Great observation.
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #83 on: April 15, 2019, 02:51:50 PM »
Maybe I have trust issues. How do you get past being hit by a bus? When you're abandoned by your mother, then the person you were with for 36 years and trusted completely betrays and abandons you, how do you ever trust again?

Sorry Thundarr. I hope this isn't too far off your topic.

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #84 on: April 15, 2019, 03:00:37 PM »
Trust is everything. I think most of us do have trust issues Hawkeye.

And it took a long time for me trust myself again, much less someone else.
Without trust in a relationship you have nothing.

That's why for me trying to patch up that old relationship would be impossible now due to the ex's abuse..I have no trust and that's been wrecked for the rest of my life.

Although a new relationship is pretty damn scary, it comes with it's own challenges and in time trust is built.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #85 on: April 15, 2019, 03:06:05 PM »
I guess that's how it works, isn't it? Trust has to be earned.

Why didn't I learn this stuff when I was a kid?

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #86 on: April 15, 2019, 03:22:02 PM »
I don't know I didn't really learn it as a child either. Children are naturally trusting and niave.

I still have a tendency to trust first, until someone proves themselves untrustworthy.
 I also tend to invest in people who were not worth my trust.
Giving them benefits of the doubts..make excuses for them.

Means I get hurt a whole lot.
Right after this last BD I hated , I mean hated men.I'd look at a guy and think "What kind of A$$hole are you?"

I try not to do that so much anymore. Invest myself in someone who isn't worthy of trust. At any level, friend or a family member.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 03:42:21 PM by in it »
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #87 on: April 15, 2019, 04:51:27 PM »
IDK. I'm not sure how learning to trust ourselves helps when we're dealing with so  many other people who can't be trusted.

Honestly this resonates so much with me. I trust myself implicitly....but Beast was the first person I truly trusted and well... :-[


So do you commit to a relationship with a person you don't trust? Especially if they lack trustworthiness?
Reconciliation only occurs when the couple decide to re-establish trust. And that takes a lot of work and driving the fear out.

Whether its reconciliation or a new relationship- without trust, what do you have?

Well I am probably totally firetrucked on both fronts!  :o I really am not sure how the trust will be rebuilt with MLCer or a new person. I think each will be equally hard tbh.


I still have a tendency to trust first, until someone proves themselves untrustworthy.
 I also tend to invest in people who were not worth my trust.
Giving them benefits of the doubts..make excuses for them.

I think I am actually of the camp...I do not trust anyone, but I will give them a chance or the benefit of the doubt. I watch them carefully to decide if they are worth more trust...and give accordingly. The problem is once I start investing that trust in someone, I can get a little blinded by love and then...I get really hurt if they break it. Really hurt. Most times to the point of cutting ties and walking away. My MLCer is the first person I have interacted with after huge betrayal (besides my mom I suppose). It is an exercise in growing up for sure. But trust?

I don't see myself really truly trusting anyone again.

I sure hope I am wrong.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #88 on: April 15, 2019, 09:03:24 PM »
Great discussion, guys!

In my case gf hasn’t given me a reason NOT to trust her as she has never lied to me to my knowledge and was forthcoming about having cheated in her first marriage as well as one relationship after, but both were in her 20’s and before she “grew up” by her own admission.  She maintains being completely faithful in her 2nd marriage despite being an LBS and knowing her H was having an affair.  She has been transparent about everything as she said she didn’t want anything to come out later that might cause a problem between us or a question of why I wasn’t told.  I’ve done the same and it seems her trust issues have improved.

She also keeps her phones in another room when we’re sleeping and keeps them unlocked or has given me the password.  I’ve been tempted to check her phone several times when I get up in the night but choose not to because I’d feel crappy and would probably torment myself by looking through old pictures or texts from before we met and definitely don’t need THAT crap to make me more insecure.  She has my password too but usually needs me to remind her when she uses my phone to take pics.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 09:07:10 PM by Thundarr »
One day at a time.

Thundarr

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #89 on: April 15, 2019, 09:14:12 PM »
Well I am probably totally firetrucked on both fronts!  :o I really am not sure how the trust will be rebuilt with MLCer or a new person. I think each will be equally hard tbh.

Amen!

God bless you Thundarr. You're a stronger and braver man than I am.

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #90 on: April 16, 2019, 03:01:51 AM »
Well I'm pretty sure I wouldn't reinvest in that old relationship.
And I'm in a new one too.
And after what I went through.. I think pretty much  anyone could find it within themselves to love and be loved again too.
In time.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #91 on: April 17, 2019, 07:06:34 AM »
Really being reminded of what I liked about  not being in a relationship over the past few years today.  Our usual weekend routine is that we hang out at her place on Friday and Saturday night and I spend the night after watching movies and such.  This weekend I was on-call and she had her grand-kids Saturday while also deep-cleaning her apartment and I know she was tired afterward and that they were going to spend the night.  She asked me if I wanted to come over Saturday night or Sunday night, or both, and I chose Sunday as I was spending time with my kids and had several things to take care of, plus I know she needed her rest.  She said that was fine and was looking forward to seeing me Sunday.

When Sunday came we texted back and forth during the day and I took care of some work and home responsibilities.  When I texted her around 7 to see if she was home yet she just said yes and that she was going to bed early and wished me a good night, followed by an ILY.  I replied back that I thought we were hanging out and didn't know if she wanted to me come over and still spend the night or what.  After a couple hours not hearing back I texted that she had blown me off and ended with a WTF.  The next morning she texted and apologized, saying she had been sick most of the day and was not going to work that day (Monday).  She said she didn't mean to blow me off and that she had forgot all about it when sick.  I told her I understood and thought that might be the case and that I hoped she got feeling better soon.  She later replied that my text Sunday night didn't indicate that I understood and that what I said was "mean."  I apologized for hurting her feeling if I did and said it was a natural reaction to having plans cancelled last minute for no apparent reason.  She said I didn't have to "lash out at her" and that I'm always "jumping to conclusions that she's blowing me off" when she was legit sick that night.  I apologized again and said I would have appreciated it if she had told me that she was sick Sunday night but she never answered back and that was at 4 pm yesterday.  I wished her good night and asked her if she needed anything as well as a good morning text as we always take turns with those and another wish for good health but heard nothing back.  Finally sent a text about how I didn't like the silent treatment and how it was hurtful, but did not accuse her of trying to hurt intentionally.  Not going to mind-read.

Addendum:  Heard back from her as I was typing this out but choose to leave it for reference sake.  It looks like yet another case of us both being triggered by past experiences as she reacted to my getting upset and blew it out of proportion, which is a constant struggle for her due to her being a naturally sensitive person, and she perceived my text as lashing out or an attack.  She is right that I shouldn't have included the line about blowing me off as part of trusting each other is giving the benefit of the doubt when all the facts are not known.  We're both in the wrong here.

On top of that, AnneJ once pointed out that it seems that gf and I are in a pattern of her doing something that upsets me and then turning it around to where I have to extend the olive branch or apologize.  In examining that pattern and discussing it with her I can see now that pattern is a result of my failing to hear what she is saying many times.  Case in point - yesterday she stated that she felt it was "mean" when she felt I lashed out at her and that she feels taken for granted sometimes.  My response was that I didn't feel I lashed out, that it wasn't meant to be "mean" and that I never take her for granted.  Basically I completely failed to VALIDATE what she was saying and essentially told her she was wrong.  She wasn't looking to be right or even for an apology, just opening up and expressing how she felt.  Looking back, she told me early on that she doesn't have to be right but just not to be told that she's wrong in how she feels about something and it never really sunk in until now.  So while I sometimes go out of my way to prove something to her or to make amends for it I'm doing things from my perspective of what she needs and/ or wants and not really giving her what she's needing or even asking for.  There's no need to apologize or prove myself, just VALIDATE how she feels and let her know it's okay to feel however she does.  Hopefully this isn't a lesson I've learned too late as things are still very tense between us and I have yet to hear from her today.

Peace to you all.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #92 on: April 17, 2019, 07:29:38 AM »
Idk, Thundarr....I see you both reacting sure, but I see you being very quick to apologise and to mind read and excuse her behaviour bc she is 'sensitive'.

You are both grown ups. You had an arrangement. She was ill and forgot. She could have texted you before to cancel. By not doing so, she did inconvenience you and did seem like you weren't important enough to remember. Let's assume she didn't have her phone on so didn't get your checking text or your follow on until the next morning. Surely the olive branch should have been hers bc she DID blow you off and didn't tell you in advance? And she apologised, you said ok and then she went straight for you being 'mean'. So essentially it's ok for her to forget and not cancel and not ok for you to be annoyed or hurt by that? A bit 'not what I did but your reaction to what I did' as the problem surely? Idk...seems a bit of a pattern from what you post...perhaps you should go a bit slower and validate less when she is in the wrong?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #93 on: April 17, 2019, 08:38:15 AM »
Thanks, Treasure.  She did apologize and validate my feelings and concerns the next morning along with explaining what was going on and didn't make excuses from what I could see.  What I was trying to say in my post was that the apologies and olive branches that I've been giving would be unnecessary as long as I validate what she's feeling and saying.  Validating does NOT mean that I agree with her or that I think she's right or wrong, just that I acknowledge her and what she's saying.  I'm going to really work on not doing on the defensive or taking things personally as she states she doesn't mean it as a criticism or attack on me, and that she's neither looking for an explanation or an apology but just letting me know.  Her history of not being validated by her family or the military when she was in the abusive first marriage has created a need for her and she has made me aware of that from our early days.  In It can probably shed even more perspective on it from what she's told me.   The funny irony is that I teach validation, self-validation and invalidation as part of my DBT groups but can look back on our past communications and see where I dropped the ball. In fact, our first three "break-ups" were likely not intended as that at all as she was expressing her concerns about us as a couple and NEVER used the term break up or "it's over" except for the one in November where we did break up for a month.  She never name-calls or says anything that I would consider abusive even though I think my subconscious is expecting it and even twisting what I'm perceiving due to the emotional abuse and neglect that XW perpetrated on me.  Baggage to work through.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #94 on: April 17, 2019, 09:02:28 AM »
Well I guess you have the skills lol...and I hope that as things move forward that validation is reciprocal bc imho reciprocity is about respect and respect is so important for those of us with some old scars isn't it?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline forthetrees

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #95 on: April 17, 2019, 09:19:19 AM »
DBT is all about emotional regulation, yes?
me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #96 on: April 17, 2019, 09:24:22 AM »
It sounds to me like both of you need to learn how to count to 10, or maybe 100, before responding. And I don't think it would hurt either of you to start identifying your parts that have been hurt in the past, getting to know them, and helping them to learn how to relax.

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #97 on: April 17, 2019, 09:28:32 AM »
Quote
Case in point - yesterday she stated that she felt it was "mean" when she felt I lashed out at her and that she feels taken for granted sometimes.  My response was that I didn't feel I lashed out, that it wasn't meant to be "mean" and that I never take her for granted.  Basically I completely failed to VALIDATE what she was saying and essentially told her she was wrong.  She wasn't looking to be right or even for an apology, just opening up and expressing how she felt.  Looking back, she told me early on that she doesn't have to be right but just not to be told that she's wrong in how she feels about something and it never really sunk in until now.  So while I sometimes go out of my way to prove something to her or to make amends for it I'm doing things from my perspective of what she needs and/ or wants and not really giving her what she's needing or even asking for.  There's no need to apologize or prove myself, just VALIDATE how she feels and let her know it's okay to feel however she does. 

Thank you for sharing this. Your conversation sounds verbatim to many I've had with my h in the past.

I'm gonna print it out & show it to him.  Your hi-lighted sentence is key. I understand her reaction 100% as I too have a history of not being validated by my family, especially my mother.

Communication is so important. I think you've got it.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 09:29:54 AM by sada »
Sada
Me - 55
H - 54
Married 11 years, together 21
Apr 2014: PA discovered, ow 22 yrs younger
Jun 2014: Left home to live w OW
Aug 2014: Back home. "Sorry, made mistakes".
Late 2015: Ow2 (a couple of dates I think). Monster
  returned for several months 
Early 2016: Health scare, including major surgery, resulting in fog lifting some more.
Today: H progressing thru mlc positively.Not cooked but has remained home and reconciling
Arguments & disagreements less frequent
Enjoying our time together

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #98 on: April 17, 2019, 10:28:19 AM »
I am in the she did blow you off brigade.

She talked about how she was looking forward to seeing you Sunday night...then when you text her she is going to bed early.  :o

That is some passive aggressive ''I am mad at you'' type behaviour. If it was just because she was sick she would have text ''Hey I am not feeling well today, maybe you should come round X''.

I dunno..I am glad you worked it out but... ???
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #99 on: April 17, 2019, 10:30:07 AM »
FTT,  Emotion Regulation is one of the 5 key component modules of DBT along with Mindfulness, Walking the Middle Path, Distress Tolerance and Interpersonal Effectiveness.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #100 on: April 17, 2019, 10:37:26 AM »
Mortesbride, I hadn't texted her since around noon and she had been laying around all morning by that time so she might have already not been feeling well.  My guess is that she took a late nap and just woke up and texted me.  I've never known her to lie and have no reason to think she was upset about anything at the time, plus she missed work Monday and almost never does that.  She gets kind of embarrassed about having stomach or gastro issues when she does so that could be part of it too.

Thanks Sada!

Hawkeye - You are correct in that I at least need to take time to respond rather than react and analyze the situation and text to make sure I'm getting the intent and not just the face value of it.  Listening and not hearing has become a problem for me in this relationship.  Funny thing is that our mutual friend and my co-worker said she is the same way as gf and has been talking to me about how her H successfully responds to and supports her.

Things are great now and she's back to being her old, loving self.  We are planning on going to a cookout with my friends tonight and then a movie Friday when we'll make further weekend plans.  I just have to stop catastrophising and remind myself that her bad moods are always temporary and normal and don't mean anything bad is going to happen.  She tends to turtle up when upset so I also know her well enough to know the silent treatment wasn't to manipulate or control but rather just her avoiding me and probably other parts of her life.  We are works in progress.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #101 on: April 17, 2019, 11:18:46 AM »
Yes everyone is a work in progress.

However she could have just texted she was not feeling well then you wouldn't wonder what was going on.

None of us are 100 percent all the time.

Communication, everyone. If you want to have a relationship you have to communicate. NO ONE is a mind reader.
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Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
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Offline STP

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #102 on: April 17, 2019, 11:28:46 AM »
You've apologized more this month than I've needed to in a year!
I agree with Mortesbride. Her behavior reminds me of my last gf who would pull that crap on me and belittle me. It may be good 'n fun at times, but it seems quite dysfunctional at others. I'm laying money out, this pattern will continue because there's too much character analyzing, judging and negativity.  :(
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 11:42:55 AM by STP »
M52 XW51
S26, S24, S19, S17
BDs 11-09 & 4-16
D 10-16

You are responsible for your own happiness!

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #103 on: April 17, 2019, 01:05:29 PM »
You've apologized more this month than I've needed to in a year!

 ;D

Sorry. It isn't really funny, but yet, it is. Kind of like giggling at a car accident.

Listening and not hearing has become a problem for me in this relationship.

That's because it's not you who is hearing and responding. She's triggering one of your internal programs and causing it to run. That's why you need to slow down. So that you can shut down that program before it can respond, and then you can respond more appropriately.

A couple of things to consider.

What is it about your relationship with her that seems to trigger these programs so often?

Once you figure that out, is that what draws you to this relationship? Maybe you have some issues that your subconscious is trying to work out through your relationship with her. If so, there are more effective and less painful ways to resolve those issues.

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #104 on: April 17, 2019, 07:29:58 PM »
Hello,

Quote
She's triggering one of your internal programs and causing it to run.

Hawkeye, can you explain this to me for clarification. I don't understand. Thanks.

Quote
I just have to stop catastrophising

I do the same at times. A small argument and I think she is ready to divorce. It's gotten much better for me. It's not her, it's all in my head making a mountain out of an ant hill.

Like everyone else, communication is vital. Information is like oxygen, without it, we hallucinate.

Quote
We are planning on going to a cookout with my friends tonight and then a movie Friday when we'll make further weekend plans.

That's better. Enjoy the weekend. Last weekend, I got trapped in the garage with my wife and ended up cleaning it for two hours. Normally, when I go out there, I make sure she is busy and doesn't follow me. Grab what I need and get the hell out.

Losing my touch. She was right behind me and I heard the sinister, "We need to do something about this garage today!" We cleaned out about a quarter of it. She told me, "Next week, we'll do another part of it."

Sure, only if you catch me in the garage....baby!!!!

Thundarr, enjoy the weekend dates, the relationship deepens when you do chores together.

Fist bump,

Ready



"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline Anjae

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #105 on: April 17, 2019, 08:08:34 PM »
On top of that, AnneJ once pointed out that it seems that gf and I are in a pattern of her doing something that upsets me and then turning it around to where I have to extend the olive branch or apologize.

Yes, I have.

When I texted her around 7 to see if she was home yet she just said yes and that she was going to bed early and wished me a good night, followed by an ILY.

What was the part of going early to bed, good night and ILY, you missed, T? If I would text someone I was going early to bed and said good night, I would not be expecting anyone to come around. And if I texted them asking what you then asked and had not received a reply, I would assume the person was asleep. They had said they would go to bed early and wished good night.

Ending your next text with WTF after you had been told she was going early to bed, means you didn't stop to think she could be asleep and blew it/reacted poorly.

I get you had an arrangement, but she had said she was going early to bed. Wouldn't it make much more sense to think she had fallen asleep? And wait until the next day to ask if all was well?

You both blow each other off, over react, and are in constant emotional turmoil.

Not only you need to learn to count until 100, you also need think and to not freak for so little.

In this case, it was you who went overboard. But I still think it would be healthier for both to you to end the relationship. It is like a relationship with a MLCer. Too much drama. Great moments, tons of problems. Doubt the pattern will change and that the relationship will ever be a good, sane, healthy one.

Have to agree with Hawkeye, something is attracting you to this relationship. What, I do not know.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #106 on: April 17, 2019, 08:50:19 PM »
Quote
She's triggering one of your internal programs and causing it to run.

Hawkeye, can you explain this to me for clarification. I don't understand. Thanks.

Sure. Most of us don't realize it but we were programmed when we were children to react in specific ways in response to certain stimuli. This programming is recorded in our neural circuitry. The brain tends to continue to run those programs after we become adults. Sometimes we learn to modify our response but when stressed or something triggers us the programming is still there and the brain simply runs the old programs.

Those programs are part of the emotional brain. If we slow down our response, quite often we can use our rational brain to override those programs.

BTW, the sum of all those early programs is often referred to as the inner child. When you do inner child work you are connecting with that early programming.

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #107 on: April 17, 2019, 09:09:58 PM »
Hawkeye, it sounds like you’re a fan of Susan Anderson’s book “From Abandonment to Healing.”  That was a lifesaver for me in the months after BD.

Had a great time with gf and my best friends of several years.  They really like her and she was very comfortable with them.  They invited us back in a couple weeks for my frjend’s Birthday party and gf is looking forward to it.

Had a long talk afterward about the past few days and she admitted to being scared about the future.  I told her I wanted her to to be happy and have a great life and if it’s not with me I’m fine with that.  No expectations and no hard feelings if we part ways.  She stated her love for me and commitment to trying to make things work as did I.  We talked about how there are definitely no certainties in life and the need to just relax and enjoy the time we are together rather than over-thinking and worrying about the future.  A good friend recently said that all relationships are temporary - someone either leaves or dies.  Pretty profound.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #108 on: Today at 10:09:39 AM »
Quote
Sure. Most of us don't realize it but we were programmed when we were children to react in specific ways in response to certain stimuli. This programming is recorded in our neural circuitry. The brain tends to continue to run those programs after we become adults. Sometimes we learn to modify our response but when stressed or something triggers us the programming is still there and the brain simply runs the old programs.

Thank you. How does this relate to Erickson's stages psycho-social development? I can see some connections. For example, a baby that develops mistrust and due to the mistrust, develops responses and action throughout their lives especially in emotional responses and high stress or high trauma situations. Now, with therapy, they could learn to slow down and train to ignore the signals and respond to the situation using a more mature or rationale system. Am I on the right track?

Quote
Ending your next text with WTF after you had been told she was going early to bed, means you didn't stop to think she could be asleep and blew it/reacted poorly.

I am glad that Anjae brought this point up. I was struck by it as odd, immature, and inappropriate as well. There are many ways to voice displeasure. However, I really think that texting is not an effective means to communicate a deep conversation or argument.

I would have waited till the next day and in a conversation discuss how you felt disappointed and hurt when your plans fell through. Don't get me wrong, my new wife is HUGE, I mean HUGE on keeping commitments especially with time together. He ex consistently planned things with the family and then bailed to go to work.
In fact she asked me if I worked weekends, I told her..on a off occasion, I might have to work a Saturday or attend an event. She said fine and that was one of her boundaries that I have always respected.

I'm not faulting you for the disappointment, I think you could have responded better.

Fist Bump,

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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: My Story pt 2 - Painful Truths
« Reply #109 on: Today at 10:52:24 AM »
Thank you. How does this relate to Erickson's stages psycho-social development? I can see some connections. For example, a baby that develops mistrust and due to the mistrust, develops responses and action throughout their lives especially in emotional responses and high stress or high trauma situations. Now, with therapy, they could learn to slow down and train to ignore the signals and respond to the situation using a more mature or rationale system. Am I on the right track?

You're right on track. The therapy is being used to create new neural programs. But, it's important to note that every time you repeat a behavior, you strengthen the neural connections. That's why pianists spend hours practicing. Muscle memory is really neural programming.

Some of those programs from childhood can be really strong. The new program may be strong enough to overcome the old program while thinking rationally but under stress you may revert to the old, stronger program. Eventually, with enough repetition, the new program should become strong enough to completely replace the older one.

 

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