[Enough]

Hello All,

I haven't posted in a while, well, because I would need to reach author status to recap all that has gone on since November and I don't have the time or the strength at this point to write that novel-- let's just say he has been all 4 seasons over and over and over and over again since November, but now, it's a little different. 

Last major event was about 7 weeks ago, when he declared he was jumping a plane across the pond in 2 days to go to her.  I said go ahead, but we are done and she will never get to be near our son-- she has nothing to do with him and is only 12 years older than he is (he is 9) and is not a good person for him to be around (my opinion counts in this-- Who thinks it's ok date a married man with a young child???-- NOT A GOOD PERSON).  He didn't get on the plane- told me to take his keys and cried like a very small child.   

All replay activities have bit the dust (only gym was with me, he followed me to exercise room once and went through the motions as I worked out).  Stopped taking all medication. He wears sweatpants 24-7.  I think he has showered 1 time in 4 weeks. He rarely comes out of his room during the day.   He chain smokes.  He "works" (not sure what he is doing) all the time.  He either completely ignores the kid and I, or loads the kid up with junk food.  His conversations with me have been brief and about nothing.  We watch TV (as in ALL 7 seasons of Game of Thrones so far...) at night in "my" room (AKA our old bedroom)-- I fall asleep and I wake up the next morning and he is back to his cave.

I, on the other hand, am doing MUCH better.  I don't know if that is good for him, but it is good for me-- I don't seem to care that much any more-- I mean I care, I have been on suicide watch with him-- I check for a pulse, but that is about it.  I am kinda liking just me and then just me and the kiddo-- far less drama.  I work, I exercise, I read (like a real book, not cr@p on crisis- haha), I go to my therapy, I meditate,  I sleep (this is recently new and AWESOME-- I just PASS OUT), I hang out with friends, I hang out with my Sunshine (the kiddo).... Just LIVIN'....(for those Dazed and Confused fans out there...) 

Anyway-- my question is-- what did/ does liminality look like in "real life"-- I have read all the "betwixt and between" and lots of other philosophical things-- but what does that really look like?  Is this it, or should I get him to a Depression Clinic?  I DO NOT want my child to witness a suicide attempt or worse.... and yes, I am VERY aware this could just be another cycle...

STATS-- Me- almost 45, Him- almost 44, together 23 years, married 19. Moved upstairs 4/2016, ILYBNIL 8/2017, girl discovered by me 5/2018, moved out to hotel 11/2018, back at house 12/2018, run away attempt #2- didn't go 12/29/2018.....

And on an odd note, he just brought me eggs and bacon??? at 11:30am-- I am in crazy land, I tell you! (We both work from home on Tuesdays). Just walked in my office and handed me a plate-- I said "thank you" and he left.  WTH?

I appreciate all the feedback-- you guys have done so much for me, you don't even know!

Enough

[OldPilot]

From what you described this sounds more like OW depression/withdrawal which is still part of replay.

[hope2018]

Maybe I missed it in your post, but is he still talking with ow? If he has had any recent contact then from what I understand it can not be ow withdraw. I think your answer will clarify this.

[OldPilot]

Maybe I missed it in your post, but is he still talking with ow? If he has had any recent contact then from what I understand it can not be ow withdraw. I think your answer will clarify this.

Good point.

[Enough]

In all honesty, I don't know.  Last word of her was one day after he was supposed to hop a plane-- which was actually 1/29/2019-- typo in my first post. We don't talk much, and if we do, it's about nothing.  I am plumb worn out and would rather not talk about her any more.  I am trying to focus on me and my young child, but I guess since I posted this today, I am still focusing a little too much on him.  I need to drop the d@mn rope.  Thanks for the feedback.

[OldPilot]

In all honesty, I don't know.  Last word of her was one day after he was supposed to hop a plane-- which was actually 1/29/2019-- typo in my first post. We don't talk much, and if we do, it's about nothing.  I am plumb worn out and would rather not talk about her any more.  I am trying to focus on me and my young child, but I guess since I posted this today, I am still focusing a little too much on him.  I need to drop the d@mn rope.  Thanks for the feedback.

I think you are making a good point too.

These things are best decided looking in the rear view mirror.
Not as you are doing it.

So down the road you may look back at this time and then you will know the answer.

[Anjae]

Liminality is different for each MLCer. It can look like what you wrote. Liminality is overt depression what you wrote about your husband's current behaviour is overt depression.

But, for now, it is impossible to know if it is Liminality or just a stop in Replay.

It could be OW depression/withdrawal. Time will tell what it is.

[Silver]

Good and interesting question Enough. I have been thinking the same, a lot during XW's MLC.
I have lots of exprerience (trough work especially) about depression and it has so many faces, even when overt, that I would imagine it being difficult to point in liminality as well. In many cases anyway. Maybe it is about apparent change in spouse in some way or something else? In my case, my XW has been the master of the projection, so I could imagine if she ever hit liminality, maybe the change in that could be visible and point liminality.
Interesting thread, hopefully gets lots of posts!

[Treasur]

Best description I have read is lawprofessor's posts about her friend J.
She was clear both about how awful it was for him and how important it was for her to say/do little but keep her own boundaries solid.

[9393roo]

I think for me liminality began right after OW withdrawal.  They were 2 very distinct phases in hindsight.  OW withdrawal was very overt.  He told me how much pain he was in all the time he would cry about what he was losing (he said it was the loss of the section of the company OW worked in- but in hindsight I know it was the high he was getting from her). When Liminality hit he went quiet, very very quiet. As a clinger this was something new.  He tried several times to go back into replay because it felt so much better for him.  His efforts failed because of the boundaries I put in place.  He had another awakening about 3 months into liminality when I told him to get help or move out.  One of my sons witnessed his breakdown and told him he needed to leave me alone.  I believe now this is what started him out of the tunnel.  And with that brought many months of cycling. 

Don’t know if it helps.  Like Anjae stated it is different for each individual.  I’m seeing so much more in hindsight then I did at the moment.

Hang in there Enough and give that little boy all that you have.  You are doing really well for having a live in MLCer, it’s no easy task facing it on a daily basis.