Author Topic: My Story MLC Wife  (Read 972 times)

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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My Story MLC Wife
« on: March 12, 2019, 12:57:55 PM »
Hey guys

Not sure how to do this - but been a long lonely road and just need to talk about it.

Married for almost 12 years.  We used to be very very happy, did everything together and were best friends.  Went to bed at the same time, watched movies together, did everything together and never had issues.

At the start of 2018 my wife started talking to me about passion and excitement lacking in our marriage, this was already a shock, but nothing compared to what was coming.  I then started suspecting something was going on with her and her phone, I checked it once in a while and then found flirting messages with her male hairdresser.  I left it for months and then eventually confronted her, she was very apologetic.  This in itself was so so out of character for her.  I then started to suspect something big was going on.  The weeks went by each having another explanation, ranging from:

The marriage is not working for her
The relationship is placing too many expectations on her (she is a stay at home wife and I do not expect her to cook or clean)
Complaints that she tried and I was too busy working (I have the only income)
She wants her freedom (which I gave her)
She feels trapped
She asked for space (which I gave her)
She asked that we have no physical interactions (which I gave her)
Told me she settled for me and never really committed
Lack of her own income/job is bothering her
Her personal journey to improve herself

She has also gotten a tattoo since and completely thrown herself into training.  She is alot on her phone, chatting to different people.  Seems to range from 1 guy friend to another, and some girl friends.  She actually went out to have coffee with one of the guys, she told me about it beforehand.....at this point I am just letting her do whatever she needs to and I try to not react, but it is tough sometimes.

During this process there were times where she broke down and apologised and said she never wanted to hurt me etc. but then it will be fine for a few days and then something new will start.  A few days ago she got into bed and moved over to me and hugged me for the first time in months and started crying, I thought here is the turning point.  But it seems I was wrong.  2 days later and she told me she is going to see a psychologist and marriage counsellor.  She got back today saying we should go see a marriage counsellor and send me 2 books, the one is about saving our marriage and the other about uncoupling the marriage.  That just threw me off again.  She said that inside her she can not see the marriage work, but she has not made a decision yet whether to divorce or not because of fears.  She still wants to go see the marriage counsellor - maybe he can help her with her feelings were her words.

It really feels like she has no idea what she wants.  It is becoming very difficult for me to sit around and just wait. I read alot of HB stuff which has helped me so far.

I do think that I am emotionally okay if she does not want to carry on, but I also don’t want her to make a wrong decision and destroy something that should not be destroyed.  My biggest worry is around our kids and that I won’t be able to see them everyday as I now do. That is what has me sitting here with tears in my eyes now.  I love my wife, but I kinda made peace with what she wants to do, although I wish she would awaken.

I am just so confused and don’t know how much longer I should wait.  I read that I should not be the one to move out or agree to the divorce.

The vibe in the house is not bad, I try and be positive although she somehow thinks that there is a bad vibe due to me.  I have been working hard on myself and feel a better person, but I really hurt inside and just don’t understand how someone that loved me so much could change like this.  We are mostly kind to each other, unless we start talking about our issues, then she feels I do not understand her and push her for answers which she does not have.

I do think she recommitted to the kids, and I thought she did to me - I am not sure if maybe this is part of her healing process as she was never keen to see any psychologist and now decided to do it.

I know I have made mistakes in the journey as well, but have always been willing to fix our marriage where she would just say “I don’t know”.

I guess what I am trying to ask is where to from here?  Should I just stick with it and not expect much and let her do what she wants to and hope she comes back to me?  Could you possibly advise where she is in her journey?  There is something future talk.  Is she even in a MLC?

I struggle big time to focus on my work, the moment I get my energy up and happy she will drop something else on me......

Thanks guys

Offline OldPilot

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2019, 01:35:01 PM »
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

RCR has asked everyone to keep to one thread until  that thread is 150 posts

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

Offline Skates

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2019, 01:55:36 PM »
You are not alone.  If you read my story we are almost the same - word for word and event by event.  You think everything is fine and then find out that it is not.  You worry about losing everything you have known and not seeing your kids every day.  You can't believe that it has come to this.  You can't believe that this has happened to you because you feel that although you aren't perfect you have done your best to give her what she wants.  What she wants seems to be a moving target and every time she asks you for something them some new things you have never heard of comes around.  You look at her and see the person you married 12 years ago but she is different.

She is lost, and has no clue what to do and so she will blame you for everything that has caused her to feel unhappy.  Its an awful feeling and i know you try to carry on but its freaking hard cause the person you have known for years turned into a monster you don't recognize and seems to only think about herself and not you.  You feel like you have zero control of your life and you are just standing there losing everything and the harder you try the worse it gets.  My W was in the same situation - she did not work for 14 years and instead looked after the kids.   Everyone would tell her that she had such a great life because she could do her own thing and still be at home with the kids every night.

You are going to hear this repeated a million times.  This isn't about you it's about her.  I like that the first thing you thought about was not seeing the kids - that's huge.   That means you know they are more important than your wife.  Thats huge too.  The kids are going to keep you going through all of this.  I didn't believe it when this happened to me but its true.  I have grown closer to my kids than i ever thought i would.  We separated for ~3 months.  I missed my kids like crazy, i cried all the time.  i cried to my mom and my friends.  I was a grown man who cried constantly.  But i had a friend who told me to let go and give her space.  So i spent 3 months missing my wife and my kids and my family.  I was hopeless.  But the days the kids were mine were that much better.  I enjoyed every second of it.  I became a better father.

My wife was a total b*tch to me.  She was awful.  But i ignored it for 3 months and unless it was about the kids or money i never spoke with her.  After 3 months she wanted to move back in with me.   I let her and she was awful to me.  She would say random things blaming me for stuff and telling me she feels nothing for me.  She would tell me she doesn't love me at least once a week.  its been 3 months since then and things started to change and get better.  A lot of the things she said she stopped saying.  The  big thing for her was that she started to work full time 40+ hours a week and do more stuff by herself.  She needed to feel that if she wanted or needed to leave and support herself then she could.  Based on some of what you said about your W she might be similar that she needs just needs to know she can be her own person.

My answer, it's a terrible situation but you should stay.  And when she treats you like crap, just think that you get to see your kids every day.  I like to think of it this way - if my wife was sick and had some disease that took 2 years to heal i would stay.  I consider the MLC to be a disease and i just have to stick it out for now.  No matter how hard it is.
Married 2001
MLC W 44
LBS H 46
D15, S17
BD August, 2018
Left home 2.5 months, home since Nov.
Blames me for all of the negative but none of the positive in her life.

“You beat cancer and then you went back to work at the carpet store?.”
― Rick Sanchez

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2019, 03:17:16 PM »
Hello,

I am so sorry you are on this site. But there are many good people and many will come with great words of wisdom.

First rule: You can not fix, solve, influence, control, force, heal, or any words of wisdom, acts of kindness, or any other thing will cure her. This is her issue and only she can do it. Believe me, I am a researcher and educator and I tried everything to no avail. In fact, when I did nothing and let the river flow, was progress made.

I failed in my stand. However, like early explorers, you can read my journal and navigate a different course if you choose. Not guaranteeing success nor happiness. To be honest, I am in a very good place right now, not the place I envisioned, but I am content.

So, let go. Keep your interactions to a minimum and professional. Talk about the kids, the weather, events of the day. No R talks to be initiated. If she does, do what is called mirror action. You mirror her. If she really sweet, enjoy the moment, but no expectations that it will last. MLCer cycle.

Set boundaries and be prepared for alienators. How you will react is up to you. After all, you have to live your life. While the MLCer runs from the fire, you face the fire. How can you improve? Read self-help books and take up a new hobby. Exercise for your health and stamina. Don't do it for her, do it for you. If she wants to go to counseling, go, but have no expectations. Listen, validate her feelings, but like a record, state your boundaries. Even Marriage counselors cant figure out MLCers. Individual counseling is recommended so you can work on yourself. Be deliberate and intentional in your actions- that is different from the MLCer.

Protect your finances. She can bankrupt you fast. Believe me. I barely kept my house and my family from going under.

Keep posting and know you have a long journey ahead for yourself,

((((Ready)))))
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline serenity

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2019, 03:32:37 PM »
Hello lovemywife,

Welcome to the site. A place you’ll find help, support and answers.

I am sorry you find yourself here but at least it’s a place where we all understand what you’re going through.

Only you can decide what you want to do and how much you can tolerate at home. From what you’ve said it sounds very early days and your wife will be in replay, escape and avoid.

Some of these crisis can be shorter if they are mid life transitions and usually last around the three year mark but if it’s a full blown crisis they are on average 7 years! I’m at the 7 1/2 year mark!

All you can do, which you sound like you’re already doing is let her go. Look after yourself and your children and protect your finances because MLCers burn through money!

Your wife will/has become the opposite of the person you knew. It’s as if the shadow side takes over. You can’t help her and none of this is about you. It’s something within your wife, maybe a childhood issue or maybe something else.

Post and ask questions and others will be along to help too

X

Offline MKnight10

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2019, 05:14:13 PM »
LMW - Sorry your here -

Your post is an almost exact replica of my initial post - there are no answers - you cant fix it.

Whatever is going on with her, it has nothing to do with you; its something within her that is broken and only she can fix it.

That will take time - a great deal of time. If its fixed at all.

The best thing you can do is concentrate on yourself, your interests, hobbies, kids and friends.

There is wealth of experience on this site from men and women in exactly the same situation.

Keep posting. We all understand.

Offline megogirl

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2019, 06:02:20 PM »
My answer, it's a terrible situation but you should stay.  And when she treats you like crap, just think that you get to see your kids every day.  I like to think of it this way - if my wife was sick and had some disease that took 2 years to heal i would stay.  I consider the MLC to be a disease and i just have to stick it out for now.  No matter how hard it is

AMEN, Skates!

IMO -- it's attitudes such as yours (and mine, hopefully!) that, ultimately, will prevail.  I absolutely believe that all of our efforts will pay off someday.

And I certainly mean no disrespect to those who opt to walk.  Just different Strokes.... 

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2019, 12:41:21 AM »
Hi Guys

Wow - thank you so much for the response!  So many useful/confirming suggestions/thoughts from you guys!  It helps big time.

Some more info - from what I read (I have been going through HB's stuff, Larry Bilotta (Chaos Kids), Mort Fertel).  So what I got from it was that the death of someone could kickstart the MLC.  When my wife was in school (ages 3-10 I estimate) both her parents worked and she was looked after by her grandma.  Her grandma passed away September 2015, and the tattoo that she got was that of her grandma's passing date.  I am thinking that could have started the whole process. 

Honestly, the issues really started end of 2017 beginning 2018 - things like I love you, but not in love with you etc.  then it escalated to the points I mentioned before.  So the really tough things have been ongoing since then.

She was never willing to go see anyone, but that has changed - I get the feeling she tries 1 thing, if it fails she is onto the next......all the time avoiding facing her internal issues.  What I do know is that the lack of a business that is her own (she is not interested in a job) is huge for her.   So last night after the uncoupling talk, she messaged me (she was in the living room and I was in the room and we sometimes message as that does not result in a fight) and said thank you for being a great dad to the kids and that she really wants to try the couples counselling.  This morning she messaged me saying she knows I am hurting and may be angry, resentful, but would I still be willing to help her get her fitness business up and running.  I wasn't sure what to answer as I try and remain detached, but I also don't want to be mean or give up an opportunity where could do something together, so I said I would  :-\

I think I have become pretty good with detaching, but the moment I get some sort of positive intent form her I want to meet her halfway, but then a day or 2 later she would drop something new and my emotions would take a knock.  I realized I needed to detach completely to be able to focus on myself, kids and my work, so that has been better and I have been in a good mood.  We do have good days where we laugh and joke etc. 

We are not mean to each other in the house and I personally do not want her out or anything and happy to stand and wait for her - I told her last night that the last we discussed was that she needed space, and that is where I am still mentally, giving her the space but now she is talking about uncoupling (she did mention a month or 2 ago that she looked at divorce, but she could not go through with it for the kids - it became too real she said).

I struggle to find the sweet spot between remaining detached and still supporting her........for example she asked for a new laptop to help her with the business (yes, the laptop she has is not great, but it functions (she wants to go sit at coffee shops and work sometimes, and she can't do it with the old one)) - so I was worried that why should I spent money on a new laptop (so she is getting the advantages of the marriage, but not committing to it), but I also want to help her.  She did mention this morning she will sell her camera to help pay......

So guys, yeah - there was a very clear push for me to end the marriage about 4 months ago......that then blew over, and now it seems to be there again.  But the moment I detach or I don't defend the marriage or myself, then she will come back with compliments and basically be nice.

Thanks for letting me share, all you comments above has been so helpful - pls respond and let me know your thoughts?

Online Silver

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2019, 01:08:05 AM »
Hi lmw,

Welcome, sorry you had to found us. Many similarities in our stories, sounds very stereotypical MLC, all that feeling trapped, need to improve, marriage (suddenly for whatever reason that changes from day to day) isn't working... Been there.

You had very good advice already. I would emphasize protecting your finances (I didn't well enough) and focus on your relationship with kids, as well as yourself. What would be the best life for you without her if she ever decides that to happen. And if she does, you can't prevent that, fix her, nice her to her senses, only to decide what your boundaries are as long as living with her and how long and if you will stand. This site is primary for standers obviously, but there are us that consider ourselves as 'done' too. Whatever you decide, do not stand still, that is one of the best advices I got from here. That means doing concrete things in your life to live the best you can as if she won't come back.

I have often shared this OP's line to me bc it helped me a lot (not exactly his words but the point): She either finds you again or she does not, you can't make that happen.

You obviously have already found all this yourself and seem doing emotionally great taking account the situation. True detachment can come only with time and to me it never happened as long as I lived with her. My timeline was short though.

From the point my XW started her pre MLC (saw that retrospective of course) at Jan 2015, to BD, was more than 2 years. A lot of signs about what was to come then, didn't see it coming though. Now from BD about 2 years so far. No really signs of change, she is either in deep replay or then I have been wrong all the time and she is happily engaged with OM and lives happy ever after together  :o In my case, at time of BD I could never thought I would be this ok if she left me and broke the family. She did and I am ok, most of time even good.

Just trying to point that as been said, timelines are long and there is no guarantee about the result. Still there is always hope and happy endings. I suggest you keep thinking about 'happy ending' without her atm, what would that mean to you. If you reach it together, great!

Keep posting.

"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2019, 01:11:17 AM »
You are not alone.  If you read my story we are almost the same - word for word and event by event.  You think everything is fine and then find out that it is not.  You worry about losing everything you have known and not seeing your kids every day.  You can't believe that it has come to this.  You can't believe that this has happened to you because you feel that although you aren't perfect you have done your best to give her what she wants.  What she wants seems to be a moving target and every time she asks you for something them some new things you have never heard of comes around.  You look at her and see the person you married 12 years ago but she is different.

Wow Skates!  Your story and mine are pretty close together.  Did I say the mail hairdresser was also in the gym - we actually became friends - he is not a bad guy and I shared the stuff with him and told him I saw the messages, which he said had stopped - I do believe him as she has since found other chat buddies, no idea what they talk about - it is apparently light topics......

I keep you in my thoughts as well and yes, I am also standing, I have nowhere else to be - but just need to get rid of my own emotional rollercoaster.......

Oh, and on valentines day I got her a few gifts for her and the kids (and the kids and I together got her something).......barely a thank you.  But my birthday was the 17th of Feb, and she basically forgot - if it was not for facebook or the family chat she would not have known.  Needless to say she did not get me anything, and I am not big on presents at all, but it hurt, I guess because I get nothing else from her.  We did go out for a nice lunch, she did have 1 glass of wine with me, she stopped drinking beginning of the year (not that she had an issue or anything, neither of us did).

I then said to her that evening of my birthday, how lonely I felt on my birthday - I was sitting alone in bed and she was chatting (or reading, she says she reads, which I know she does read a lot of self help books, just not how much is reading and how much is chatting) in the living room.  She then got up and came to bed, I said she didn't need to, but then she said "What a bad wife would I be if I didn't"  :-\ :-\
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 01:19:26 AM by lovemywife »

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2019, 01:47:34 AM »
One other thing which I did not go into detail - was that I have always said to her that if she want's a divorce she can go and do it.....I want to make us work.  So last night with the uncoupling stuff, I started talking to her about it in a sense that if we go ahead if this, how will we make this work etc etc. kinda trying to paint the picture.  At the end I did tell her, "Just so you are 100% sure, I DO NOT WANT TO DO THIS, but if that is what you need to do then so be it"

Offline Whyus

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2019, 02:04:36 AM »
Hey lmw, I dont have much to add but These MLC Ws sure follow script!
My Story too is very similar, Gym, new friends (all younger) etc...

I dont have much to add as the lads have basically said it all already. Just Detatch and take nothing personally. I thought that was total BS for a loooooooong time but ist true. This is not about YOU or YOUR marriage, ist all on her.
The good Thing is that she is reading the right stuff and willing to go to therapy, that is huge. You may be one of the lucky ones but still "live as though she is not coming back". and have "No expectations"

No matter what happens, do not leave the Family home. If she wants out then she has to go! If she wants a Divorce then be prepared for her to drag it out or even do nothing atall.
About you helping her with a Laptop, new Business etc. That is your decision but be careful, you may be Building the foundations for her new happy life in lalaland which may not include you.
Just a warning, helping her that way generally wont help you, we cannot "nice them back".

Protect your Heart and your finances!...  hang in there, this is hard as firetruck and thats is coming from somebody who is "done"!

I failed in my stand.

WTF ready, you failed nothing mate. You stood for as long as you could. Standing for a Minute of this $h!te is a minor achievment imho. We all have our boundaries. Your stand helped you become who you are, you moved on but your happy, that was a succesful stand id say .
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2019, 04:56:27 AM »
No matter what happens, do not leave the Family home. If she wants out then she has to go! If she wants a Divorce then be prepared for her to drag it out or even do nothing atall.
About you helping her with a Laptop, new Business etc. That is your decision but be careful, you may be Building the foundations for her new happy life in lalaland which may not include you.
Just a warning, helping her that way generally wont help you, we cannot "nice them back".

Thank you!  I am aware that I could be helping her build her exit plan.....but like Skates said, she also needs to have something that is her own so she feels worth something and not so dependent on me - this is stuff she has told me as well that she wants.  I tend to take it personally that she wants to get away, but I think that is the wrong mentality.  I am also generally a person that loves helping others, so I don't want to change and not help her, cause that is not in my nature.

This morning she actually sat down and took the oldish laptop and started working on her stuff and showed me for my opinion as well, so it seems like she is starting and she said she just needs to empower herself.  I will help where I can but want her to take the lead.  She made a comment and said she thinks she should just work with women (in the fitness thing) as men are full of BS anyway, but quickly added that it was only a joke......interesting is that she still wants to use her name and our surname for the website domain......I thought she would want something that does not include anything of me.

As I said, it is not all bad - but the moments the monster comes out it is a lost cause and she has said many times that she can not control her emotions and then say things she does not mean.  I think last night she got the message that I won't stand in her way if she wants to end this and that I am also getting tired of the ride.......she is involving me alot more today than before, telling me what her mom said etc etc.

The other thing is that I read the article from HB about abandonment......that was so spot on because my wife has said to me that she was always afraid of ending up alone and during the last year she told me that she is not afraid of that anymore, which is good, but still why bring that up if it does not bother you? It is as if she feels she is not good enough, she mentioned a few times why do you hang on to me if I am such a bad wife etc.  so the fact that I am standing must be very confusing for her, because anyone else would have walked out by now, but I hope me standing shows her that she is worth so much more and how much I love her.  She also told me that she wants the fairytale love......I think that has passed now.....

I would love to figure out where exactly she is in her journey - she does not tell people the whole truth, for example she told her mom all these smallish issues about our relationship, NOTHING like the stuff she told me, which threw me off.......I have also made mistakes in the process, but I guess that is to be expected with the stress and pressure.

I heard this saying - "The only thing you get to keep, is the thing you give away"
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 04:58:18 AM by lovemywife »

Online Silver

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2019, 05:18:40 AM »
lmw to me you seem to have great ability to self reflect and observe her cycling etc but that's what may easily get you on wrong track too.
I used to overanalyze everything, just couldn't help it and though there was a lot that could be seen, there was much more stuff  that happened without clear logic and got me very disappointed and confused. Seeing the stages is so much easier retrospective, would be better for you not to think about stages at all atm, though we ALL did and do that, I had a stage obsession tbh.
"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2019, 05:49:52 AM »
You are so correct Silver - I tend to over analyze like crazy.....I am trying to stop......  :-X :-X

W helps out with the house, but I have always been helping out more than I should have.  Started working from home when our oldest was born, so I changed nappiest and all - she did also, but I did not mind doing it either.  Even now, my parents and her own parents, told me that I did too much for her and that she is not really a good wife or mother.....now this is interesting because if she can get through MLC and get to be at peace with herself, I would love to see that mother and wife!  I think she will be awesome, but lets see when/if we get there.

She wanted to go away to her parents for a week (2 weeks ago) and said if the kids want to go along then it is fine, but when the kids asked why I am not going with, she said because she wanted alone time.  So, then she wanted to get on a bus for 24 hours with 2 kids - she could barely keep her composure with the kids in the house, but that is better now. I then discussed with the kids as well and said she wants and needs alone time, so if they really want to go then fine, but if they are okay to stay then that would be good too.  I even offered to buy her a flight ticket to cut down the trip to 2 hours, but then she needs to go alone (too expensive for kids also).  Anyway, she eventually one night said to the kids they don't need to decide anymore as she is not going......last night she said we will talk about that in therapy......I was so confused, no idea what she thinks happened because apparently she has her side of the events.  Was I wrong to discuss with the kids?


Online Silver

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2019, 06:25:59 AM »
Something like "he is always doing things I should be doing myself because I am a big girl already and want to do them my own, see how controlling person he is?"
Just guessing. I don't see you did anything wrong but maybe she takes it pressing or something that you got involved in her plans?
Maybe start being just a bit less nice and helpful and give him more 'space' as that's what they THINK they lack.. even they don't.

Edit: btw MC may be good or may not. I was warned about it as XW suggested going at very beginning of replay. People here kept saying she probably tries to find justification to go and to get to say that she 'tried her everything' for our M. My reply to her was that I'm ok to join her at MC if we both can bring up anything we want to, totally honest and without having to fear the subjects. She didn't seem to want to go anymore after that, just asked what I want to talk about there...

There are risks in MC in MLC, people with more experience here may open it better to you.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 06:29:44 AM by Silver »
"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2019, 06:28:28 AM »
Hi lovemywife,

I'm sorry you are going through this, but I have to say you sound pretty good.
No in my opinion there is nothing wrong with discussing certain things with your children, as long as you are taking no blame and not demonizing your wife.  Kids usually sense when something is not right.

You are giving her space and treating her kindly.  Nothing ever works, or changes, if there is a lot of anger and arguing going on.   Sounds like neither of you are doing that, so great.

Your wife sounds like a Low Energy Wallower.  Sometimes their crisis seems milder because they don't run around and party, their not Monsters, but inside it is still a crisis.  A lot of what they do and think are more fantasy based.  Some never do find a real alienator.

I like what you told her, that you will not stop her if she wants a divorce, but be sure to add you will also do nothing to help her get a divorce.  That she will need to do it on her own, all of it.  The only thing you will do is protect yourself, if she files.  (Which means you would get your own lawyer and she would have to get her own lawyer, which you will not pay for).

I'm also glad to hear you are not moving out.  That is something she would need to do.

What this is, is tough love.  You won't stand in her way, but she has to figure things out by herself.
It stops a lot of them, or slows them down, when they see they have to do all this on their own, without your help, financially or any other way.
   
I hope it never gets to that point, it may not, but if it does remember this is HER divorce not yours.  It is not a mutual decision.

I like that she does have clarity sometimes and at least realizes she is hurting you, and that you are a good father.   I think that's pretty good.  :)

Just keep doing what you're doing.  But keep in mind, you can be friendly and polite with these MLCer's but you can not "nice" them out of this.  So no bending over backwards for her, it will not help.

Like with gift giving, mirror what she does.  If she buys you something, say for your birthday, then you can too.  If she doesn't than you don't either.
It's just mirroring her actions and it won't be seen as pursuing, or ignoring.   :)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2019, 06:30:53 AM »
There are risks in MC in MLC, people with more experience here may open it better to you.
Like Thunder here?  ;)

"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2019, 06:45:10 AM »
Thanks Thunder!  Appreciate it!

We do fight less, because I THINK I have learnt to keep quiet and not react.  One of her issues was/is that I don't know when to stop (when we argue) and then she is just raging mad.  But I NEVER ever go in to fight with her, I only ever wanted to find out what do we do to get better - yes, I now understand that not even she knows, which is why she also tells me that I want answer that she does not have.

Anyway - she used to say, "we can't carry on like this and fight every day" - so with the last fight, about 2 almost 3 weeks ago, she said (and we didn't have a fight for 3 weeks before that also) "We can't be having fights every month!" - I thought that was some progress!  ;D ;D

It is very clear that when I become distant that she then comes towards me - that other night (4 days ago) when I was asleep and she got in to bed and just moved closer until I had to take her in my arms and hold her and she started crying - I literally woke up the next morning, wondering if it was a dream - she was not in a great mood the morning either, so I still wonder whether it was a dream or not  ::) ::)

I am happy that I started working on myself - I really got into the Law of Vibration - I thought, "Hell, why not use this opportunity to see if I can manifest some stuff!"  It helps to raise your level of vibration, you just feel more positive - but W has the skill to knock my vibrations down to nothing, but I am getting good and getting over it quickly.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 06:57:39 AM by lovemywife »

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2019, 06:48:28 AM »
There are risks in MC in MLC, people with more experience here may open it better to you.
Like Thunder here?  ;)

I hear you - interesting the therapist we got recommended was one of the books she got to read, she was not impressed with it as he was really knocking her behavior in the first chapter.....I said she must guide me in whether we go and see him - so I will leave it with her to take it further.

Offline gman242

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2019, 08:22:31 AM »
Just saying hello and welcome! As they say here this is the club that no one wants to join.. but since here you're here, you've already seen it's an awesome place to be. Many cool people around here! and if it had to happen, there'd be no where better to be.

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2019, 08:32:09 AM »
thx gman!

One other thing I wanted to share with you guys.....not sure if it meant anything.  But I had access to W's phone always, but that stopped when we got new phones, she still has access to mine.  But what was interesting was one day, few months ago where I was secretive with my phone (I chatted to the person she flirted with as at that point we became friends)......and I discussed W's issues as this guy said he went through something similar 9 years ago and he came to realize the grass was NOT greener and reconciled with his wife.  Point being, W wanted my phone to send pictures I took to her......I left the chat open as I was driving and did not want to give my phone to her......that got her very suspicious....to the point when we got home she said she is going for a drive.  She messaged me and said it feels like I am hiding something from her  :o :o I thought that was kinda ironic!  Anyway, she was clearly not okay with me doing that. 

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2019, 12:14:09 PM »
Guys

Can you assist me with this - so W asked me tonight if I will be reading both books recommended by the therapist she went to see yesterday. The one book is of the marriage counselor we are likely going to see which is called "The truth about relationships" and the second is "Conscious Uncoupling".  Now, the first book is something I could get onboard with, I feel it is pretty standard stuff that one should be doing, and I think I have been doing most of it anyway, but she hasn't.  The second one, well, that is something I am not interested in - I read the first few pages and it is about basically splitting up in a good way.

So, should I read the second book as well even though that is not something I want to do at all?

Then also, I tend to look alot after the kids, I put them in bed, I make breakfast for them (she does once in a while) and so on - should I move away from doing all of this and give her a chance to do it? I am not sure I should as I do not want to penalize the kids....
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 12:35:32 PM by lovemywife »

Offline megogirl

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2019, 12:58:08 PM »
The second one, well, that is something I am not interested in - I read the first few pages and it is about basically splitting up in a good way.

Maybe this is just me because I'm admittedly "old-school", but I find everything about this to be BS.  Divorce hurts children.  Cut, and dry. 

There is no "splitting up in a good way!"  That is just a load of crap, written by all those who also enjoy terms such as "Modern Family."  Makes me physically ill!

Hey, Gwyneth?  Your kids hated your so-called "conscious uncoupling", and are permanently scarred by your DIVORCE.

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2019, 01:19:07 PM »
hahaha, thx, that made me laugh!  But I agree, in fact I said it to W last night.......I guess it is all ways to justify behavior and actions.  I just want to make sure I act in a correct way.

Offline PJ Ames

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2019, 08:48:44 PM »
Following along, lovemywife. Glad you found us, but I'm sorry you're here.

Reading your thread I see that you're already getting some great advice. I don't have much to add. But I will say that cycling is normal, both for the LBS and the MLCer. Your W may go through a pattern of coming close and acting normal, then drifting off to Monsterville or LaLa Land. You will probably also have some ups and downs. As you go through cycles, you'll get better at recognizing what is happening.

Post often and ask questions. You're among people who understand.

Take care.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2019, 11:51:23 PM »
Thanks all!  Thx for following along as well.  The advise is great.

This morning W got up and I could see she is thinking deeply, no idea what.  I really just want to hug her, but I am not sure how she would take it.  Previously she did not mind if I hug her, but I also want to detach as much as possible and not provide any distraction to take her away from working through her issues.  Will see what the day delivers, she does seem to be moving closer to me in bed (used to be on the one side), almost as if she wants me to hold her like the other night, but she is afraid to engage....... :-\ :-\

Online Silver

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2019, 12:21:54 AM »

Maybe this is just me because I'm admittedly "old-school", but I find everything about this to be BS.  Divorce hurts children.  Cut, and dry. 

There is no "splitting up in a good way!"  That is just a load of crap, written by all those who also enjoy terms such as "Modern Family."  Makes me physically ill!


Agree that divorce hurts children, always. Still it can be better option sometimes than really bad marriage.
I know this may be discussed enough already here but grey is a good color sometimes.
Opinions, just opinions here.
"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2019, 01:12:33 AM »
Hey Silver

I agree, but the thing is we don't really have a bad marriage - again, I don't walk around being mad at W or picking fights or issues.  She basically got all she asked, but she is still in moods/deep thinking/depression that then affects the vibe.  I would fully agree to this if the environment was hostile, and it only gets to that when there is an argument, which we have under control now it seems - it happens less and less as the things that I react to have become fewer.

My question though is whether I should read the book as well or not?

Online Silver

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2019, 01:23:37 AM »
Sorry lmw, didn't mean to refer to your marriage in any way, just speaking in general  :)

So, should I read the second book as well even though that is not something I want to do at all?

You answered to your own question imho.


"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2019, 02:45:45 AM »
Thx Silver!

One other thing I forgot to mention - 2 nights ago when W mentioned the 2nd book (Uncoupling) I was upset, I did not act on it, but she asked me whether I was upset and I said "No upset, just confused" and then I walked away to the room (I was emotional and I told her that via chat and asked her to put kids to bed which is what I normally do etc.)  but just a little before that she messaged me and said thanks for being a great dad to the kids and she also said that she would never do anything to keep the kids away from me.  I told her that was my biggest fear.

Now - and yes, maybe I am stuck in the 6 stages - but as HB said when they get to withdrawal they hopefully recommit to their jobs, lives, relationships, spouse and finally marriage. As I said before, she re-committed to the kids a month or 2 ago, that I am sure off - I can see it in her actions and it is not once off.  She seems to be re-committing to her job/business, she said yesterday that she do want to make the fitness business work, she does not know how yet, but would appreciate if I can help her.  Would you guys see the above comment that she is re-committing to the me as in the spouse, I am not saying the marriage, just me being her spouse?

Offline Whyus

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2019, 02:55:11 AM »
To be honest mate, anything is possible. They can Change quicker than the weather but mostly, when they have "checked out" then thats it until the MLC is over (if that were to happen).

she messaged me and said thanks for being a great dad to the kids and she also said that she would never do anything to keep the kids away from me. 
This is JMHO and nothing more, others may see it differently but to me this is a classic "checked out" line. She is being nice to you before the slaughter.

Would you guys see the above comment that she is re-committing to the me as in the spouse, I am not saying the marriage, just me being her spouse?
Again, JMPO! I personally wouldnt, not yet. You Need to see consictency and the 2 quotes here Show that she is all over the place. She wants a new shiny future without you in her way but she cannot make that possible without you.
I think you Need to be very careful but remember, whatever you do you have to do it for the right reasons and not be an enabler. She will find enough of those without you helping her.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Online Silver

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2019, 03:02:10 AM »
I have to agree with Whyus, lmw. Consistent actions is what you need. Thinking about timeline she probably is very far from that. Just my 2 cents though.
But I so feel for you about this, you sound just like me 2 years ago. That's why I talked about over analyzing. We want so desperately to see progression, we obsess with stages and try to make sense and get hope from that. Don't get me wrong, it is not necessarily bad in any way. Just don't put much weight on it, you are easily misleaded if you do.
I hope of course your W would be some kind of exceptation and more like in MLT than MLC and gets trough it fast and without doing much damage.

"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2019, 03:13:35 AM »
Thanks Whyus and Silver!

Yeah, I am not putting expectations on this - I am just watching the journey.  I agree, it is about consistent actions - she took the kids to the beach now and gave me my 2nd kiss for the day.....also asked me to rub her back with tan spray......ended up saying, it is not actually needed as she wants to tan :-)

I am not sure about the timeline - the monster/mean behavior started 2017/2018, but I do think that the MLC was triggered by her grandma's death almost 4 years ago.....so she has been going through this for a while if I am correct.

I find the process very interesting, but I am at a point where I know I will be fine no matter where it goes, I will be sad if it does not work out, but I will be just fine.

Added
I completely forgot about this - about 2 weeks ago she said to me - one of the guy friends she talks to told her the doc said he only has 5 months to live.  She then said to me, wow, and here she is complaining about a few arguments we have........
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 03:15:35 AM by lovemywife »

Online Silver

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2019, 05:28:59 AM »
I am not sure about the timeline - the monster/mean behavior started 2017/2018, but I do think that the MLC was triggered by her grandma's death almost 4 years ago.....so she has been going through this for a while if I am correct.

Probably, seems to me that they all or at least most of them have years from trigger event until BD and many kind of pre MLC symptoms. Mine did, so easy to see them now!

I find the process very interesting, but I am at a point where I know I will be fine no matter where it goes, I will be sad if it does not work out, but I will be just fine.

Listen mate, this attitude when having it in heart too, is the best gift you can give to yourself. I dare to say I had it, still do. Makes you go trough any kind of s*itstorm that MLC may bring to your way. Have it and believe in it and you have nothing to worry about.

Sorry to hear about that friend of your W's. Always makes one think about dimensions in life doesn't it.


"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2019, 05:44:31 AM »
Thx Silver.  Yeah, realized how little gratitude one shows - life is good man, my kids are playing in house and loud as hell......while I try to work.  W is in the room, not a good day for her, but she started making jokes when I walked in, she is doing laundry, so her mood is picking up.

I had to get to a point where no matter what she does/say affects me anymore, does not mean I don't care or love her, heck I do so much, but this is her journey (as she said herself) and I know now that I had to learn to be okay without her if it got to that, as she was my world man!  My thoughts for now are on myself and my 2 kids, she does jump into the picture once in a while and I hope it will become more and more, but time will tell and it will be a journey well worth it, although it was damn difficult to get here......
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 05:47:15 AM by lovemywife »

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2019, 01:19:30 AM »
Last night W said she wanted to go have drinks (me, her and kids) - she normally meets a girl friend and they walk and talk for an hour or so, but last night they didn't - not sure girl friend is good influence as she is going through something as well, but W is supporting her.  Anyway, I thought that is pretty good that she wanted to go out for drinks, she then messaged me that she invited my business partner along as well (now, he knows we are having issues as I had to tell him that it affects my work) and I had no issue with him coming along.  He came along with his kids and it was all good.  I just find it weird that W almost wanted to be alone with us, but got the feeling she was afraid of what we will talk about.......

Got home and we had a power outage - sat in the dark with the kids with some candles and told jokes.

This morning she is better, made some jokes as I have stopped going to gym for now and she asked if my plan is to get fat and she can get me in shape in her new business so she has before and after pics - I found that funny and we had a laugh - oh and she called me husband!  She was off to gym and asked me to take the laundry out of the machine once done, she will fold when she is back - I did (even set a reminder, cause I get the feeling she is testing me).  A lot of "Babes, can you help me with this.....".  I can see she is stewing as you guys call it, and I am just leaving her.

She said 2 nights ago that she and girl friend want to go out to watch the band, they have done that a few times, maybe once a month or so......she NEVER went out without me before last year......but all good, I actually enjoy the times when she is not here. 

I guess I will just carry on as we are for now, it is not bad, but also not good - no idea what she is thinking in her head.  She is waiting for the marriage counselor to call her to setup an appointment for us, I think.....but I get the feeling she hopes he does not - she again made a suggestion that we buy an apartment to AirBnB it out.......she did at one stage mention that if we had an apartment, then she could have "escaped" to it when things got tough.....but if we do that, then we need to rent it out to cover costs and she knows that.  So I do find that kinda "future" talk interesting, don't know what it means do and not reading too much into it.....waiting on consistent actions.....

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2019, 02:57:53 AM »
Sorry lovemywife, but I think getting an apartment she can "escape" to is a very bad idea, but that's just my opinion.

It sounds like she just wants a place to go and can't afford to get it herself.  Hope I'm wrong.
It's just seems like a big red flag to me.

I'm glad things have calmed down though.

Just take good care of yourself.  This is sure not easy.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2019, 03:49:42 AM »
Hey Thunder, possibly.  Don't know how she thinks she will be able to stay there, as we would need to rent it out to cover the mortgage and so on.....but yes, I also have that as a "red flag".  I am not pushing that suggestion, I am leaving with her to see what comes up......

The marriage counselor we wanted to go see can only take us in May. Initially W was okay with that, but then later said she can’t wait till then, so she contacted some other therapists.  I think she wants someone to make the decision of divorce for her…...someone to tell her, “You are right, this is not going to work” so it will justify all her actions and thoughts.  This hurts as it worries me what if someone does tell her that, then I think well, I already made peace with whatever happens. I’m letting her take the lead with the therapists and I am just saying OKAY, GOOD WITH ME with what she suggests.......

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2019, 04:09:46 AM »
Oh I'm so glad you saw it as a red flag too.

You're also right, most of the time, they are looking for validation that what they are doing is the right thing.  "See even the counselor said I was right."

Trouble is the counselors don't know you two so all they can go by is what she tells him/her.
That's why sometimes counseling is not the right thing, it can even be damaging.
It can be very helpful when they come out of their crisis to settle things in the head, but now what's in her head in not pro-marriage.

If you do end up going, maybe you could make it clear to the counselor, right from the start, you are doing this to help your marriage, not end it.  You are not looking for a divorce.

lovemywife, it's perfectly ok to take a stand on some things.  Whether it be about the apartment, or counseling.  It shows strength.  You can lead too.

Something like:

"I don't feel getting an apartment, for times to escape, will be helpful for our marriage."
Or "I will go to counseling, but ONLY if we are going to work on the marriage.  Is that why you want to go?"
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2019, 04:26:49 AM »
I agree, if having little horns on forehead for a while it could be seen as MLC teenager planning her move out to live on her own as big girls and boys do.

Sorry don't want to speak disrespectfully about her but there just are so much common between teens and MLCers. You (us) are the ones to rebel against (moms and dads) and the life they have and have chosen trough their own free will is the one they are suddenly 'trapped in'. I am sorry to say but it feels to me too that she may hurry to MC just to make things happen and have justification for her obviously bad choices. I so hope I am wrong of course. Sounds very good that you have peace with whatever she decides to do.

What makes it so twisted is that the person you trusted on suddenly becomes one you can't never say what she is planning about and what are her (or his) goals, or whether they speak truth or not. Probably bc they fool themselves as well imo in their denial or whatever fog it is.

Still, we all may be very wrong here, let's hope we are in your case, just remember to protect you heart and don't try to nice/help her out of it by doing things aren't good for YOU (like putting money to her escape plan).



"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2019, 04:31:15 AM »
Trouble is the counselors don't know you two so all they can go by is what she tells him/her.
That's why sometimes counseling is not the right thing, it can even be damaging.
It can be very helpful when they come out of their crisis to settle things in the head, but now what's in her head in not pro-marriage.

If you do end up going, maybe you could make it clear to the counselor, right from the start, you are doing this to help your marriage, not end it.  You are not looking for a divorce.

lovemywife, it's perfectly ok to take a stand on some things.  Whether it be about the apartment, or counseling.  It shows strength.  You can lead too.

Something like:

"I don't feel getting an apartment, for times to escape, will be helpful for our marriage."
Or "I will go to counseling, but ONLY if we are going to work on the marriage.  Is that why you want to go?"

I was thinking of doing that - I want the counselor to know that I have no interest in ending the marriage. W's answer to why she wants to go the marriage counseling is to find out if we have a chance still.......she said she does not think we do.

There are quite a few things working against W - the house we live in is her parents and they are coming to stay here (it is a big house with rooms outside) when they retire in a few months.  The agreement is that we (me because I have the income) then assist with paying off the mortgage.......I think W is worried that her parents will see her behavior (they already seen some).  But I feel for her, as she really as no where to escape to, but I am trying to back off as much as possible so she can get a sense of that.  Thinking of it, no idea why she never decided to move into one of the spare outside rooms........it has always been there.

It seems like she is really at 2 extremes - 1 is to re-commit to the marriage and the other is to get out, but get out is very tricky due to no income, and above points I raised.  What really gets me though is how she can make plans for us (like saying we should buy that car when her parents move here etc.) and then read a book about uncoupling...... :-\ :-\

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2019, 04:37:10 AM »
I agree, if having little horns on forehead for a while it could be seen as MLC teenager planning her move out to live on her own as big girls and boys do.

Sorry don't want to speak disrespectfully about her but there just are so much common between teens and MLCers. You (us) are the ones to rebel against (moms and dads) and the life they have and have chosen trough their own free will is the one they are suddenly 'trapped in'. I am sorry to say but it feels to me too that she may hurry to MC just to make things happen and have justification for her obviously bad choices. I so hope I am wrong of course. Sounds very good that you have peace with whatever she decides to do.

What makes it so twisted is that the person you trusted on suddenly becomes one you can't never say what she is planning about and what are her (or his) goals, or whether they speak truth or not. Probably bc they fool themselves as well imo in their denial or whatever fog it is.

Still, we all may be very wrong here, let's hope we are in your case, just remember to protect you heart and don't try to nice/help her out of it by doing things aren't good for YOU (like putting money to her escape plan).

Thank you Silver!  You always destroy my positive expectations  ;D ;D Only joking, I know I should not expect anything at this stage.  Actions baby, that is what we looking for.......

I do think that a mountain of fears/decisions is coming down on her, see my previous post re her parents - and she is being pushed to make those calls.  I honestly think that she sometimes see through the fog based on what she says, but then it changes again.  She is far more depressed, staring out of windows, almost not answering me that ever......definitely thinking a lot.

Question I have - BB said, they will start to recommit to animals first, then kids, then jobs and lastly to the marriage.  She has done the first 3 it seems (and last night said if this new venture does not work then she is done and will become a housewife) - but are you guys aware of any correlation in terms of recommitting, eg: if they recommit to kids and job does that mean there is a better chance for them to recommit to the marriage as well, as in they accept their live as it was (I know it will be different, but they accept the elements that make up their live)?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 04:39:56 AM by lovemywife »

Offline Whyus

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2019, 05:01:05 AM »

Question I have - BB said, they will start to recommit to animals first, then kids, then jobs and lastly to the marriage. 

that seems to be the script but all are different of Course. Think about it, its easier to reconnect to the pets and Kids than the spouse. We are obviously last to know, as always.
Stay strong and have no expectations.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Online Silver

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2019, 05:03:55 AM »

Thank you Silver!  You always destroy my positive expectations  ;D ;D Only joking, I know I should not expect anything at this stage.  Actions baby, that is what we looking for.......


I am sorry buddy  ;D Maybe I shouldn't say this then.. About her plans together, sorry but you can't take them very seriously if  you ask me (you probably won't anymore  ;D). My XW planned with me selling the house and buying the new one for our family, 5 months before she divorced from me. I was taking her plans as a very good sign, felt relieved... Once again I hope your's is different and she just may be! Have hopes at 100 and expectations at 0.

I was thinking if her parents moving in is some kind of issue to her, I mean psychologically too, do you think? Does she feel pressured about some how apart from the fact she doesn't want them to see her crisis?
"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2019, 05:12:16 AM »
She's only been in this for a little more than a year.

Unless she is not in a MLC and is in a MLT (midlife transition) I wouldn't expect any kind of reconnection for quite awhile.  Way too early.  I'm sorry.
what you see may just be her cycling.  Some days are good, some days are bad.

I guess if she says she wants to see if the marriage can be saved but she doubts it, to me says it's not even worth going.
Marriage counseling should be to work on your issues and fix the marriage.
It just doesn't sound like that is on her agenda at the moment.

Oh boy, I don't know.  I guess I go along with Silver, just make sure any decisions you make are not to help finance her escape.  That has to be on her and only her.  This is not what you want.
If she truly wants to leave she will need to figure out how she is going to do that, because you're not leaving the house or your kids.

Like I said, none of this is easy but you do need to protect yourself.
Sad isn't it?  You need to protect yourself from your own spouse. But she is not in any kind of rational mind.  These MLCer's are really not themselves anymore.

That's why we try to tell the LBS's sometimes you need to take off your emotional hat and put on your business hat.  Do what is best for you and your kids.  She'll be doing what is best for her, believe me.

A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2019, 05:25:41 AM »
Please take advice my friend. It may seem harsh. Even busting your happy bubble.  BUT!!!!! IT'S ALL FOR YOUR SAFETY!!!
My W did alot of false comebacks. CYCLING it is.  I got advice my E may have been MLT.  Lord I wish it would have been. But some just keep checking anchor more often. From my experience, don't change my friend. Keep doing your thing. Thunder, Whyus, and Silver are some of the best advice. They may  seem blunt. They may seem to bust your bubble, but they are just looking out for you.
Actions for 6 months or more, until then??? Don't change. JMO.

Online Treasur

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2019, 05:42:52 AM »
I'm a bit of a bubble buster too, I'm afraid.
Don't push MC at all...in fact I wouldn't even mention it. If she does, just do a bland 'whatever you think best' kind of response. Right now she is one foot out and it is unlikely to help you as Thunder says.  If she does organise it and you go, say little, listen and have clear boundaries on whether it is useful to you or not and how much one-sided blame you will listen to.

Side issue but maybe an important one...the parents moving in thing? Have you taken legal advice on where you would stand if you pay off on their house...and then your w decides she wants a divorce and she stays in the house? Sounds like you would be very exposed there. Worth getting some objective advice and you might need to tell her parents that the original plan needs to go on hold or be adapted or have a legal document drawn up. The awful thing about this situation is that they look like our spouse but unfortunately they can do things that we simply never imagined they would, be tremendously unfair and usually their family will back them up bc blood is blood.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 05:44:12 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2019, 06:03:13 AM »
Very good point, Treasur.

It's just protecting yourself.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2019, 06:17:40 AM »

Thank you Silver!  You always destroy my positive expectations  ;D ;D Only joking, I know I should not expect anything at this stage.  Actions baby, that is what we looking for.......


I am sorry buddy  ;D Maybe I shouldn't say this then.. About her plans together, sorry but you can't take them very seriously if  you ask me (you probably won't anymore  ;D). My XW planned with me selling the house and buying the new one for our family, 5 months before she divorced from me. I was taking her plans as a very good sign, felt relieved... Once again I hope your's is different and she just may be! Have hopes at 100 and expectations at 0.

I was thinking if her parents moving in is some kind of issue to her, I mean psychologically too, do you think? Does she feel pressured about some how apart from the fact she doesn't want them to see her crisis?

Thanks Whyus! 

Silver - it has always been her dream to have all her family living together, now it is happening and I get the feeling she is not happy about the timing - I'm guessing that is because she won't be able to hide her actions.  I have spoken with the in laws and they backed me, but I am not sure for how long.  They said that if she wants to end things then she needs to move......I stay here with the kids.......but we will see if it gets to that....

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2019, 06:19:04 AM »
She's only been in this for a little more than a year.

Unless she is not in a MLC and is in a MLT (midlife transition) I wouldn't expect any kind of reconnection for quite awhile.  Way too early.  I'm sorry.
what you see may just be her cycling.  Some days are good, some days are bad.

I guess if she says she wants to see if the marriage can be saved but she doubts it, to me says it's not even worth going.
Marriage counseling should be to work on your issues and fix the marriage.
It just doesn't sound like that is on her agenda at the moment.

Oh boy, I don't know.  I guess I go along with Silver, just make sure any decisions you make are not to help finance her escape.  That has to be on her and only her.  This is not what you want.
If she truly wants to leave she will need to figure out how she is going to do that, because you're not leaving the house or your kids.

Like I said, none of this is easy but you do need to protect yourself.
Sad isn't it?  You need to protect yourself from your own spouse. But she is not in any kind of rational mind.  These MLCer's are really not themselves anymore.

That's why we try to tell the LBS's sometimes you need to take off your emotional hat and put on your business hat.  Do what is best for you and your kids.  She'll be doing what is best for her, believe me.

Thank you Thunder!

The question I have re MLC/MLT - I am pretty sure this started Sept 2015 with the passing of her grandma......so am I wrong in saying that she is approaching the 4 year mark this Sept for MLC?  Or do you work it from the time the BD started, which was around end of 2017 when I got "I love you, but I am not in love with you"?

I thought that Denial and Anger maybe took up the 2 years before the BD (well I think I got a few) and replay has been ongoing since then.......and that she is possibly now getting to the end of the tunnel, although I know this can still take months to finish with shades of different stages.  I would then expect another 2 odd years for her to really reconnect/make peace etc. which would take this journey to around 6 odd years.......anyway, not placing bets/expectations on this.....just really like to analyze it
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 06:35:29 AM by lovemywife »

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2019, 06:25:57 AM »
Helpingme and Treasur!  Thanks.

The house is a bit of an issue - her parents have helped us out before quite a bit, so I am very happy to return that now - the idea was we would continue renting the house from them with a large enough payment so they can cover the repayments and they would live here as well.  If that can not happen, then they would need to sell the house. 

With MC - I am not pushing, I am just saying, happy to do as you see best.  Not pushing and not resisting - will see where it goes.

I have really seen her work through different issues as HB says - the kids and the job specifically.  I just wonder if she is now working through the marriage thing - she seems to go all out and when it comes to pressing the button she will drop off and re-commit......other than MC I am not sure what else she as left to try and justify her actions.  I have picked up that the chatting with others seems to have become less, she is coming to bed earlier as well, but is very depressed.  My parents noted the "dead" look in her eyes.

Another question - lets for argument's sake say she is finished with replay, would she still after that try and push me away while she works through depression and withdrawal?  She has previously made a very very strong attempt for me to end the marriage - like really strong - that was about 3-5 months ago.  I know they can go back and forth, but just out of interest sake what do you guys think?

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2019, 07:02:18 AM »
Yes we count from the time of bd, which sound like yours was early 2018.

You have to remember this crisis is about depression.  It's all depression, until they can do the inner work to get better.  I saw depression in my H or over a year before bd.  I just though he was working too much and exhausted.  He did the staring out the window thing too.  Black, dark eyes.

It like when they drop this nice bomb on us, they are free.  They even think of themselves as single much of the time.  Their unhappiness is now out in the open, you now know, they don't have to cover it up so replay starts.

Although with your wife seeming to be more Low Energy, you may not see a lot of crazy replay antics.

It also may be a good thing her parents are coming.  It will be interesting to see how she acts with them there.  Might help...maybe.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2019, 07:38:01 AM »
Thank you Thunder!

My W has had some crazy moments, mostly when we had an argument.  But she also got up to some things she should not have, flirting via chat (and I thought maybe I am insecure or oversensitive) etc.  I digged a bit but then got tired of it and stopped doing it.....so not sure what/if she is still doing stuff.  We did have a talk about it when I found out, which was around July 2018......she was very apologetic.  So based on the other guys here it does seem less bad in terms of actions I guess.  But the stuff she said to me over the last year and a bit is what hurt.  I said to her a month ago, you have become really really mean!  That seemed to hit a nerve and she apologized a few days later for becoming a mean person.

I really see 2 people fighting in her.  She just read to me out of the uncoupling book "Just as a near death experience can wake you up to some truths in life, so can the death of love" - I wanted to ask more about it, but she does not want to discuss it......so I kept quiet.....not sure if I should keep quiet or not, but she seems to be allowed to throw out comments and am not allowed to respond.......maybe I should start doing the same?

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2019, 08:27:42 AM »
Hi guys

I am struggling with the below - can you maybe give me your opinions?

If my wife decides to go ahead with a divorce/uncoupling whatever - it will have a few consequences, which I am not sure she is aware of.  For example: We would not be able to afford 2 places to live.  It may affect her parents house as well as they may not be able to pay the mortgage on it going forward.  It will affect the kids education.  It will affect some of the things she is doing now.  Basically stuff that I am paying for, and I always saw it as our money, but I guess I need to change that for now at least.  So, my question is, should I make her aware of that? 

Seems we are going to MC next week.  She does not really want to discuss anything when I bring it up as it ends up in her getting emotional (me sometimes, but not a lot).  Should I maybe make this clear to her in a message that I have these concerns?  Something like:  If you want to go ahead with a divorce, I am worried how we will do XYZ.........

Would the above not be seen as pressuring her?  I am sure she will see it as being trapped and it is my fault........so pls help me here?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 08:29:03 AM by lovemywife »

Offline serenity

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2019, 08:42:31 AM »
Hello LMW,

What you said all makes sense and to a logical mind that’s fine.

But you know your wife is in crisis so I doubt that the sensible way forward will have much effect on her. She may even see it as pressure on your part!

My H left our home when we were struggling financially and he rented himself a cosey cottage! It just put an even bigger financial strain on us. No sensible person would make a financial situation even worse!

X

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2019, 09:11:11 AM »
That's a tough one.  Wait and see what she does.

If she wants to divorce than MC won't make sense.

You can't uncouple and then try MC, that makes no sense either.

I guess if she does
you could just tell her if she is that unhappy and wants a divorce I won't stop you, but I will not help you either.
You'll have to do the divorce by yourself.  I want no part of it.  Then let her do it.
If she gets mad, ask her why she is angry you're not fighting her, she can divorce you if that is what she wants, but it's her decision not yours.

You could ask her if she is planning on moving out, because you're not.  Or if she is getting a job to pay for a lawyer and an apartment.

I don't think you will need to say anymore.

Maybe you could tell her you are not interested in uncoupling but she can go ahead if she wants.
You don't need to tell her this, but she will need to get a job so she can afford an apartment because you will be paying the mortgage.  You can't pay both.

You can't talk her out of it by using logic.    All you can do is tell her you don't want a divorce but you can't stop her and you will have no part of it.  Where is she going to get the money for a lawyer??
She certainly can't expect you to pay for her divorce.

Oh man, I am so sorry.  I know you don't want this but you have no control over what she wants or does, except over money.  Wait and see what she does.

Just keep any conversation as short, to the point, and stay as calm as you can.  Let her figure out how this is going to get paid for, if she wants to leave...then leave her be.

That's my best advice for now.  Just don't make this easy on her and please keep an eye on your finances.

She may not even bring up divorce, if not don't you being it up.  Sometimes they bring up divorce but never go through with it.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2019, 09:34:37 AM »
Serenity and Thunder, thank you!  I think you saved me from a huge argument with your replies!  I could feel I was in panic state, my head was running away with me and I was ready to "take her on"........but you calmed me down. 

It makes sense, I will wait until she brings it up.  Not sure what she will say at MC, but will see.

She has brought up D before, months ago and then when I got tired of her throwing it in my face I said fine, she can do it if she wants to, I don't want to, but she can.  Then she backed off that idea.  Came back again a month or 2 ago without her telling me, she told me afterwards saying she looked into it online, and it seems easy, but she couldn't do it due to the kids and it all became suddenly too real.

So she has brought up uncoupling now, not divorce, but I honestly don't think there is a difference - it is just a nicer word for divorce if I am not mistaken, pls correct me if I am wrong.  So maybe it is best that I leave it with her to bring up.  I am sure somewhere in her head she knows the huge consequences that her actions can trigger......time will tell.

Thanks again Serenity and Thunder, I think this was a close one.  But I feel much better now.

Online Treasur

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2019, 10:03:24 AM »
In crisis it isn't that they don't understand, it's that they don't care. Or more accurately maybe they don't care about the impact on everyone else and don't care enough to think about even the practical consequences for them. Until they happen and then they get either angry or feel like a victim.

It makes no sense, I know...but pretty common.

Imho try to avoid talking about anything R related at all, including all this practical stuff. But meanwhile, yes, you should be cautious about 'us' money thinking bc you don't know what will happen.

And please remember too that you have the right, politely, to say no, I don't want to discuss x or I have no opinion right now about y, whether it is 'uncoupling' nonsense or anything else.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #59 on: March 15, 2019, 10:08:21 AM »
And please remember too that you have the right, politely, to say no, I don't want to discuss x or I have no opinion right now about y, whether it is 'uncoupling' nonsense or anything else.

That is some great advice Treasur! Thank you! I struggle to do that, I am one that feels I have all the answers now and when I don't I go look for them NOW.

I definitely need to do that more, because when she brings certain things up I feel I NEED to respond NOW.  That could be a stance I could take more.....thank you!

I appreciate all of you taking the time to comment, this means so much!  I don't know all of your stories yet, but I am busy reading an catching up as well.

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #60 on: March 15, 2019, 10:36:33 AM »
We're all here to support you, and each other, lovemywife. 
You will support others when you're ready.

I guess I don't understand this "uncoupling."
It sounds like 2 people who want to uncouple and need a process.
But how does that include you???

Have you asked her what that book is supposed to do?   I'd be curious to hear her answer, because uncoupling isn't what you want, it's what she wants, so why not just read it herself???
Like Treasur said you can always say no.

Guess I'm confused.  But then MLCer's are confusing.   ::)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2019, 11:10:32 AM »
Yeah Thunder.  That is not what I want, I think that she thinks that IF we get to a D we should do it that way. I think she is trying to get me to the point where I say, "Yes, lets do it, good idea".  What I don't get is that I am nowhere near D at all.  I was thinking today, she was too tired to take the kids to their horse lesson, so I said I will take them (we were suppose to go together) - she was very thankful.  But, I was thinking, how will not seeing your kids everyday, having to find your own job/money, looking after kids yourself when you have them, possibly a new apartment etc. doing all the shopping alone (she does the shopping, but I jump in often, always have). How would that change make you any happier????  I would understand if I was an azz or something, but I am not, I in fact said I support her "alone" time thing.  I had a time in my life where I was alone for years, and I found and figured myself out......I didn't enjoy that time, but I now see what purpose it had.

She never had that alone time, always dated someone etc.  so I can see why she needs it, and I support that.  But damn, don't throw everything away, it's not like I am locking her up.....she is as free as can be.

Back to the book - yeah, the therapist she went to see recommended the 2 - I said to here, these 2 books are completely different?  She said, the therapist saw she was unsure and had fears, so recommended both to see the possibilities.......I think that is stupid, but that is what happened.  She is very big into these personal empowerment books, but I think the issue is that some of these guys always think they are an expert or their way is the only way......they have no idea how our situation is, so how can you just believe or take their way?

I am not interested in reading the book, but I may end up reading it just to see what it says.......just don't have as much time as W as I need to work in between.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 11:14:35 AM by lovemywife »

Online Treasur

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2019, 11:17:05 AM »
Her therapy...not sure why you need to read the book. Jmo. Maybe her therapist is trying to get her to look at the realities of unpicking a long marriage and family...but you don't want that so why do you need to read it? Not your therapist.

MLCers can't do 'conscious uncoupling' bc it requires way too much adulting and reciprocal respect.
Gwyneth Paltrow was big on it as I recall....her exh said later that (while she was posting floaty uncoupling memes) he was suicidal for months......
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2019, 11:43:45 AM »
Hey Treasur, good point!  I think the book's intro mentions Gwyneth......when they throw a celeb in I am already running for the hills......

So, if it gets to that I will tell her I need to do my own research to see if it makes any sense at all.....I just realized with the last post that she is trying to get me to "go along" with it....again, not willing to make the decision, because if "we" do it then it's not her fault......

All through our relationship I was very accommodating to make her happy, give her what she needs even if I did not think it was right or I was worried that she would be unhappy because of MY decision.......so I think she still thinks I will give in to that, but I also have my journey, and I am learning plenty of lessons.  One being that it is okay if she does not get her way.....it is okay if she is unhappy with me for a while. 

I remember BB talked about his W leaving clues for him to hold on.......that made me look at some things differently (don't worry, no expectations), but take this example.  She is out with friend to a restaurant with a band playing.....before she left I asked what time she needed to go etc. and she said "I need to pick THEM up at X", I was like "Them?" and she explained her friend and her kids (they are older).......anyway, I could see in her face she was thinking about something, not sure what.......but 1 our later and she posts a photo on her social media feed showing "them" all.......now, I did not doubt her or anything, but it just felt like she was worried that I thought she was lying and with that post (she knows I will see it) she is kinda putting me at ease (not that I wasn't)........it just reminded me of what BB said......

I guess sometimes we need to take the hope from the situation but not tie it to expectation......I think I am getting good at that.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 11:47:12 AM by lovemywife »

Offline gman242

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2019, 12:18:55 PM »
The clues BB was talking about are different.. Sometimes they can be conscious and sometimes not.

Like for instance I was talking with my W and i used the past tense in saying we were close and she told me she wasn't ready to say we're, past tense and that were still close. She's still going through with the divorce, but there's a part of her that doesn't want to let go.

Sending you a photo doesn't mean anything. She's trying to gain your trust, but at this point try and realize that for every 1 thing she's trying to make good on, there's at least 10 you don't know about. That's just a word to the wise. It takes a long time for the "I thought I could trust her" goggles to come off. The sooner the better.. Just keep your eyes opened and be prepared.

My w was similar.. Married young, right into being a mom. I told her for years to have hobbies and friends etc. She didn't listen.. One of the things she told me around BD was she wants to do things she wants to like go to the beach by herself. I literally told her that the week before.  ::)

Eyes open man.. It'll make it easier

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2019, 12:36:12 PM »
Hey gman!

Yeah, I am fully aware of that, not really thinking much of it, just used it as an example.....but there are a few other things happening which is telling me she is moving forward......not expecting anything and don't know here it will lead, but we learn and I feel that if you can watch, take some hope from it without expectations then that is good......

I am way past the "I can trust you" phase, I lost that a while ago.....I am very close to the "I don't care" phase  :-X :-X

Will see where things go, thx for your opinions guys!

Offline PJ Ames

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2019, 01:13:52 PM »
Quote
I guess I don't understand this "uncoupling."
It sounds like 2 people who want to uncouple and need a process.
But how does that include you???
Totally agree. If my W or MC suggested "Conscious Uncoupling" my first thought would be "I'm not uncoupling and my W is not conscious."

There's probably a safer way to say that (maybe "I don't think we're at that point since I am fully committed to our marriage"), but still. Jeez. "Conscious Uncoupling" sounds like a punchline to a bad joke.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2019, 11:43:33 PM »
haha, that is funny PJ! 

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #68 on: March 15, 2019, 11:51:20 PM »
Hey guys - so W was out last night to watch a band play with friends.  The one guy of the band I have met, and a while ago my wife told me he said "Tell you husband he is a lucky guy" (as if knows whats going on!).  So she has been chatting to him as well and actually went out to coffee with him, she told me before hand.  So last night she came back, she did not message me when she was on her way back, she usually does, but I also did not message at all. She came back and I was in bed, but I could see and feel that she was very depressed, she got into bed said goodnight and laid there for a while staring at the ceiling.......anyway, this morning I had the urge to ask her if she wanted me to hold her (I sorted out my expectations beforehand and was okay with whatever happened) she look at me confused and then said OKAY and ended up staying in my arms for about 30minutes......

I got to the living room and then see 2 roses (she put it right on my desk where she knew I would see it) - I ask her about it, 1 was given by the rose lady and the other by the same dude from the band she has been messaging/had coffee with......I just said OKAY......then before she left she said, she wants to make a dish, which she knows full well I end up making it (we usually cooked together)......almost as if she feels bad or something.......

I guess I should just leave it?  Not push any further?

It “looks” like she is starting to see the traps she built for herself, and now needs to find a way to get out of them…..maybe she is subconsciously asking me to get her out of it, but I am so close to not caring that I am not sure I want to?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 12:09:47 AM by lovemywife »

Online Treasur

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #69 on: March 16, 2019, 12:40:07 AM »
Don't want to rain on your parade my friend but is there any chance this band guy is an OM? At least an EA from the sound of it? And therefore your reading of what is going on right now is off?

In normal life, a man doesn't give a married woman a red rose for no reason...sorry. And her telling you the 'does your h know how lucky he is' comment.... To me that is another red flag tbh (and of course you are not lucky at all right now  ::) ) along with your gut sense about the cooking that she feels 'bad or something'....i am sorry but I think your w might be playing head games and thinking she is dropping hints with you and you probably need to stop mind reading and focus on your GAL and detachment more than worrying if she needs a hug or not. Take your eyes and energy away from her and back on you. Spend less time around her not more.

I hope I'm wrong and if I am, you detaching more won't make a big difference. But if I'm not, trust that the truth will come out bc it usually does, and your detachment will help you.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #70 on: March 16, 2019, 01:11:08 AM »
Thx Treasur!

According to me she has had at least 1 EA, likely a few more - all via text as far as I know.  I am not aware of anything more than that. But I also stopped digging a long time ago......I guess my confusion is should I act on this or not?  I don't want any cries for help from her to go unanswered, or should they maybe go unanswered so she can sort out her own mess?

Would love to hear your opinions further......guess if unsure, don't act and detach.

Online Treasur

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #71 on: March 16, 2019, 01:43:09 AM »
Well, I found a couple of things helpful (for my sanity...did nothing to save my m or stop my h running)...and it took me months with many epic fails and getting back up again moments although my sitch was very different from yours.

1 when in doubt, do nothing and the fab rule of 3 for any interactions
2 feelings pass so distract myself with something else until I can respond calmly rather than react
3 keep reminding myself that I had no control over anything but myself and that my then h simply didn't care enough about my opinion for it to be worth sharing
4 wasn't my crisis and I wasn't a mind reader and I didn't create the mess so my then h had to figure stuff out for himself and deal with his own mess..and he might not...but I could choose to protect myself, try not to add to the mess or damage and step away.

And the 'cries for help' thing? Well, sometimes we maybe think they are looking for 'help' when they are not....or not from us...sometimes they just flail around muttering things that make no sense or change with the wind. You don't have to be actively unkind, but yes you need to let your w figure all of it out for herself. Or not. You can have detached compassion and validate e.g. I'm sorry you feel that way or I can hear that you are feel under some stress right now. And then shut up like the marvellous Acorn does bc a) you can't fix it and b) your w has fired you (or given you notice more accurately) that she no longer wants you on her support team as a h and c) they cycle and lie and blame which can really mess your own head up if you try to follow along on the rollercoaster.

Didn't stop it feeling agonisingly painful or completely bewildering...but it did probably stop me adding to the mess or losing my self-respect. Tbh I think you are trying to do all of these things; you just need to turn up the volume on them and try to mindread less so you can live a bit more?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 01:55:24 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #72 on: March 16, 2019, 02:00:38 AM »
I think you are right!

MC booked for Wednesday.....I'm kinda excited, but also nervous, don't know what W will say, and not sure how I should respond, if at all?

I was thinking I wanted to start the session by just clearly making my stance, something like:

#1 - I am here to save my marriage
#2 - I do NOT want to bring up all the old stuff/issues to hurt W
#3 - I do NOT want to walk out of here being mad at each other fighting

What do you guys think?  With number 2 I am unsure whether I should bring the issues up - stuff like: flirting which I knew of almost a year ago (don't know if it is still going on), chatting late into the night with guys(other people), her requests for space and no expectations, the fact that I feel I need to be okay with ANYTHING she does etc etc. 

I don't know if I want to bring all those things up? 

Online Treasur

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2019, 02:10:07 AM »
Well, you don't need to decide until Weds...jmo but the fact that you are monkey braining about it now is probably bc you feel (understandably) anxious and are trying to plan for it to feel a bit more control maybe? You might find this link to another site helpful in thinking about your own boundaries as MLC or not the behaviour is much the same imho http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Others who have done MC will have more useful things to suggest than me. I'd be tempted to go along with an open calm mind and listen more than want to lay out any stance at all. You can still HAVE that stance and act based on it, but not everything has to be said out loud does it? And a bit like a business negotiation you sometimes need to choose what you say based on the info you get from what others say first?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 02:18:52 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2019, 05:51:31 AM »
I think you may be right - I know she can see a change in me, not sure if it is big enough......I have taken away a bit, but no real consequences yet for her.  I did mention yesterday that we need to discuss the house arrangements (renting from her parents) with them when they are here, she looked at me like "Huh?  Why is that an issue......I thought you sorted it" - and I was thinking "How can it be sorted if you are reading uncoupling books".  I also mentioned we would need to check where we spending money, so she knows something is up, but may let her get a feeling of the consequences - I will try and turn this heat up a bit when the opportunity arise.

The other thing - I pay for her damn phone that is being used to chat away to who knows - I am worried to make a decision on that because I do not have any proof that she is in fact doing stuff she shouldn't be. I know she did at one time, but no idea if it is still going on.  Something I will keep in my back pocket if we get to that......

The point is, she has no income at all - I move money to her account each month for groceries etc. and from that she would use for her hair and so on, she does not really spend too much.  Other than that she asks me for money when she runs out.  The money I give her should last about a month.  I guess I can become 'n bit tougher on saying yes if she runs out.........

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #75 on: March 16, 2019, 07:43:45 AM »
The way I see it, consequences and punishment are 2 different things.

Consequences for her actions is something that will happen to her, punishments are something you do to her.
It a fine line, you can have boundaries with consequences, but don't do anything that is unnecessary, like not paying for her phone. 

Giving her extra money when she runs out?  That's a tough one.  Has she always done that, or is it something new since bd?   Is she spending more now?  If so, on what?

As far as the MC, they may ask you what you want to achieve by coming, then you could tell him "you are here to save your marriage not to divorce.   Hoping to learn how to make the marriage stronger."

I wouldn't have any hard rules on what should be discussed or what shouldn't.  See where the counselor is goings with it.
When they ask questions just be honest.  Don't hide things.

You will get an idea of what the MC is doing for the marriage.
Any counselor who says you should divorce is not a good marriage counselor, they will try to work problems out between you two.

I hope you get a good MC.   :)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #76 on: March 16, 2019, 07:46:36 AM »
One more thing..I would stop bringing up uncoupling.  Don't even talk about it.
If she does.. listen then..ah ha. oh I see..not committing to anything.  Then drop it.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline MLCwife

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #77 on: March 16, 2019, 08:00:23 AM »
The point is, she has no income at all - I move money to her account each month for groceries etc. and from that she would use for her hair and so on, she does not really spend too much.  Other than that she asks me for money when she runs out.  The money I give her should last about a month.  I guess I can become 'n bit tougher on saying yes if she runs out.........
Just be aware that whatever you give her at this point could be the basis of what a judge will award her in a divorce proceeding.

You can not NICE her back into the marriage.

Giving her more is not going to help you.

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #78 on: March 16, 2019, 08:26:42 AM »
Thanks guys!

Thunder, thank you - you always have very good way of explaining things which get me to calm down!  Thank you so much for giving your time to my story!

No, she has not started spending more really, maybe a little, but nothing serious, nothing that clearly says, WHOAW stop.....but that is okay. I am comfortable with sticking to consequences and not punishment - I also don't want to change the person I am, I am very kind hearted (well, I think so) and giving/helping where I can, but I am starting to also function from the point of some tough love where if we are not together, then I won't be able to do that for you......so I won't be jumping to do certain services for her, or go out of my way as I used to....for now at least until I can see some consistent positive actions from her.

Yes, I won't bring up uncoupling, again, I think she is floating the idea, to see if I will bite. 

With the MC - I am worried that she will be bringing small issues around the house, or I don't do that for her, or stuff like that - which is NOT the core issue of our problems......do I then respond by telling them the real issues I have?  Or do I just go with that, and make the changes that she asks for so she can't use that again next time? The point is, she needs to get to her inner issues at one point......

I can see however she is very much working on an internal struggle, much much more than before.  I can see the depression/withdrawal stages very clearly, I have never seen her like this.  She would come home from gym and go lie on bed, thinking deeply.  Then come out and be nice'ish with me, very nice and kind with kiddies which is good.  She does not snap at them anymore as she did before MLC, so that is lovely to see.  Definitely a better mom already!

Interesting thing I noted through the process, is that her music taste has changed as she progressed......it has become calmer now, almost as if there is hope - where previously it was either weird songs she never listened to before, or very angry stuff.

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #79 on: March 16, 2019, 08:44:54 AM »
Just two things, lovemywife.

Of course she is bring up small things you don't do for her, she has nothing big to bring up, so she's knit picking little things.  I would not try to defend yourself, just "I'm sorry you feel that way" and walk away.  None of it is worth talking about.

My H's change in the type of music he normally would listen to was dramatic.  He liked soft rock, 70's music, or country, but started listening to heavy mental angry songs.  Spent hours on ITunes buying and listening to this stuff for hours,  Major change.
It took him a few years to get back to his normal music, so it may be a positive your W is going back to her original type music.

I think when they are in that angry stage they find music to fuel that anger.

Also thank you for your kind words, I appreciate that.   :)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #80 on: March 16, 2019, 08:54:09 AM »
Thank you again Thunder!  I agree, I am really not interested in bringing up issues, I want to do whatever is needed to save the marriage, but it helps to understand the underlying issue.  Hoping for a good MC.

Offline PJ Ames

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #81 on: March 16, 2019, 02:51:23 PM »
W and I are going to MC - we've now had three sessions. I'll post an update on my thread soon. I'll try to post one after every session - we should have at least two more.

Here are some random thoughts from my MC. Hope a few of these help.
* No Hallmark moments, Hollywood endings or quick fixes.
* It has been worth it.
* Our second session was difficult. You know when you go to the Dr. with an injured shoulder and the Dr. pokes it and moves it around in painful ways to assess the injury? Be prepared for some discomfort as the counselor assesses things by poking tender spots. It may take several sessions before it moves from painful assessment to working on the problem.
* Concentrating on breathing, posture, and non-verbal communication helps. Box breathing (Google it if you don't know about it) beforehand helps me.
* The counselor probably will figure out what's going on, but that doesn't mean he/she takes your side in counseling. If you're the strong one, you may be poked and prodded more than the weak partner.  C might realize you can take it and concentrating on you helps your W feel less on the spot. She probably feels, at some level, overwhelming guilt. Putting her on the spot takes her out of her rational brain and into her emotional brain. And you don't want that.
* My approach is to generally speak only when spoken to. I try to respond but not react. My W's narrative is that I'm critical and controlling so I try not to feed that narrative. So if I were you, I would be cautious about what I bring up.
* Being able to talk about our marriage has been extremely valuable in and of itself. Acknowledging the elephant is the first step to towards dealing with it.

In short, MC has been helpful for me. Don't expect any miracles, but baby steps over time do add up. Survive and advance!

Good luck to you! You'll do well.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #82 on: March 17, 2019, 02:56:19 AM »
Thanks PJ! That helps alot!

So update.

In my own journey I came across this book called No more Mr. Nice guy.  Now I have always seen myself as a nice guy! And the points he brought up fit me perfectly.  He said I should share the book with my partner and I did and said she can read it only of she wants to, but that is what I am reading.  Her first response was: the title scares me!

Anyway she then pushed me again and asked if I am reading the uncoupling book....I said I started but am not comfortable with it as I do not want to do it.  She responded saying but if we are to divorce should we not do it in the best way possible.  I said either way would be a disaster no matter what name you give it.

I then told her about the consequences if she wanted to go ahead with this.....not manipulating her, just telling her that we can not afford 2 places, kids would be affected daily and emotionally.  She got angry!  I said all I am trying to do is keep the kid's mom and dad together for them and I am standing for this marriage as I know we can be happy again. I also said I know she is going through something big....meaning her personal journey as she calls it.

She said shes not going through anything she is just miserable in the marriage.  I said sorry you feel that way.  She then said "Fine you win! Like men always win in this world!" Again I responded with sorry you feel that way.

She also said she in a prison now.....

I left to take a drive.

The above all played out over text....but this reminded me alot of BB's post when he made things real for his wife.

The fact is the stuff I said will happen if she carries on....

Any thoughts? Did I screw things up more?

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #83 on: March 17, 2019, 03:26:32 AM »
I don't think you screwed anything up.  You were honest with her.

You don't want to uncouple so you're not interested in reading the dang book.  Truth
You can't afford 2 places..truth.
It will effect the kids, that is also true.
You want to save the marriage, that is our choice.

Nothing you said was bad, she just doesn't want to hear it so she got angry.  Good for you with the "I'm sorry you feel that way."  It's anger because you're not making this easy for her.  She wants you to help her get divorced.  I'm not even sure why she wants to go to MC, to be honest.

Lovemywife, you can't control how she feels, anymore than she can control how you feel.

If she wants a divorce, then it is up to her to figure it out.  You won't help her with it so she is on her own.
She may have to get a job, if that is what it takes.  The harsh reality is, nothing about a divorce is cheap.  You're talking thousands of dollars on lawyers.  There may even be Mediator fees.
I would never recommend doing it without lawyers.  There is a lot that has to be sorted, marital property, finances and the kids. 

Ok, now I would just leave her alone, and don't bring it up again.  You told her how you felt and you don't need to repeat yourself.  Let her think about it.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #84 on: March 17, 2019, 03:39:10 AM »
I agree with Thunder. You answered her questions honestly and calmly. She just didn't like the answers. It sounds as if in her head she expects you to fix it all for her somehow, to put effort into making the unpleasant realities of what she says she wants magically disappear. Is this a pattern in your relationship, where she says I don't like x or I want y and then full stop and you scurry round coming up with the practical solutions?

Jmo but I would do even more to stop having any kind of R talk at all. And the books conversations seem like an indirect way of both of you doing that, just different books. You feel pressure from her. She feels pressure from you. Right now neither of you want the same thing apparently.

The nice guy book - or ones like it - are not about her or even your m. They are about you deciding what kind of man and parent you are and want to be regardless of what happens. Which might mean breaking some of your own old habits and assumptions. Always an uncomfortable thing and it will likely be uncomfortable for your w too bc she is probably still assuming that you will behave the same way you did before BD. It will possibly make her pretty angry if you don't and she will at least subconsciously work hard to charm or bully you back into that place. Do you have your own IC to support you as you work on this kind of stuff?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #85 on: March 17, 2019, 04:27:26 AM »
Thank you Thunder and Treasur!

Yes, in our relationship I usually fixed the things for her.  I expect she was hoping to get me on board to handle the whole divorce thing for her.

She has now moved my clothes to another room and asked to sleep alone - I said, Why must I be the one to move if you are the one who wants the changes?  She just said "because".  Is she now trying to hurt me, not that I am worried, but I was thinking of just leaving it as is else it will be a huge fight, so I will sleep on the couch or another room tonight.  She is also locking our bedroom now when she goes in and out.....maybe her safe place now?

The kids know stuff is very wrong, should I sit and discuss with them without making their mom look too bad?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 04:30:02 AM by lovemywife »

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #86 on: March 17, 2019, 04:39:23 AM »
I'm sorry but you made me laugh.

Yes she is going to punish you now for not doing what she wants..so she's going to lock the bedroom door on you.   ::)

Now isn't that just like what a teenager would do to her parents to punish them when she was told no?
These MLCer's do act like teenagers.

I would totally ignore it.  Make a place for yourself in another room for now like nothing is wrong.  Does it have a lock on it?  Just kidding..
She'll eventually get over it.  Just let her cool down.

I did like what you said that about why should you be the one to move out of the bedroom.
The "because" again sounds like a teenager, doesn't it?  Sort of like.."I dunno."

You're doing fine.

A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #87 on: March 17, 2019, 04:46:10 AM »
Others with kids will give you a more useful perspective than me.

On the MBR/clothes thing...fwiw, my take is slightly different.
From what you write, your w is using your fear of conflict and desire to keep her to control you and get you to take responsibility for things that are her issues and her needs. It seems likely that she will keep doing that bc it works...until or unless you stop playing the same role and it stops working. Right now if I was a betting woman I would say that her 'plan' (bc they never really think far ahead to have a plan as such) will be a list of things that you will do to make an amicable divorce where you live somewhere else and finance her and the kids pretty much as you do now. Oh, and finance and help set up her new business too, and probably listen sympathetically when she feels a bit sorry for herself or step in to fix a problem with the kids/house/car bc you are great 'uncoupled' friends....Essentially that you do adult and she does teenager. The MBR is a test marker imho as well as a teenage tantrum.

What you said was quite right...so now you get to choose your boundary and if you want to act on it.
Your w may no longer love you but you deserve to be treated with respect as a man in your own home and as a father to your kids and as the guy who pays the bills.

If you choose to avoid a fight, then you accept you are sending the message that you will bend if she pushes you hard enough rather than have a fight.
If you choose to say 'no' then you will have to assert yourself and feel uncomfortable and risk her reactions by moving your things back into the MBR and saying clearly that you are staying there and if she wishes to sleep elsewhere, that is up to her. But you are not sleeping on a couch to please her. It would send a clear msg that you are civil but no longer the same 'mr nice guy' and that as she is the one who wants out, it's not your job to make that happen for her at your own expense.

Your choice, my friend, on what your boundaries truly are and what you are prepared to do to stand by them.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 04:58:55 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #88 on: March 17, 2019, 04:56:32 AM »
haha, happy you got a laugh Thunder!  I am okay sleeping elsewhere, I would actually prefer it at this stage.  Very interesting the teenage behavior you pointed out.

Treasur - the thing is, I have 2 kids in the house under 10 - I don't want to expose them to another fight + she has the key, so I can't really move my stuff back.  She did say, "I want to sleep alone tonight....." not sure if it is a 1 night deal or not.....

I am just going to carry on with my usual stuff and see where this goes.  Big big realization for me this week was that I have just been bending over backwards to make her happy my whole life.  So that has now stopped and the moment I don't "go along" with her she backs off, but will punish me.......


Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2019, 04:58:41 AM »
Fair point, Treasur.

You can do either I suppose but if you choose to let her have the room, for now, I wouldn't sleep on the couch.  Make yourself comfortable in another room.  Don't put yourself out and be uncomfortable.

As far as the kids go, have they said anything?  Maybe let their mother explain, if they ask anything.
"I'm not sure, you need to ask your mom."

Let this be on her.  Again it was her choice to do this, not yours.

Gosh I'm sorry.  Like I said, none of this is easy.

A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #90 on: March 17, 2019, 05:05:00 AM »
Thanks Thunder.  Okay, yes, I will use another room.  Her parents are coming for a week or 2, not sure how things will go - but the kids will sleep with them in one of the outer rooms (the one next to where my clothes are :-))

I will just take one of the kids' rooms and sleep there.

Okay, so you think I should let her explain to the kids?  I was also thinking of it that way, but don't want to punish the kids, but she does need to answer for her actions.  My boy already ask her where the roses came from - she said "I got given them" no details.......

I also think she is under pressure now with her parents coming, she will need to act respectable in some way as they know we have issues and asked that there should be no weird vibe, but I can't control her.  Not sure if they know that she wants a D, because when her dad called and asked what she was reading, she said "a couples" book.....in reference to the Uncoupling book....big difference!!!!   And last night she send me a link to become a counselor for "uncoupling" to get my thoughts - I just said, I can't give you an objective opinion on that.....and left it there.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 05:07:38 AM by lovemywife »

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #91 on: March 17, 2019, 05:20:39 AM »
Oh that's right, her parents are coming.  Wonder what she'll do about the room situation.

See?  She thought by punishing you, you would now look at the uncoupling site.  You gave her a perfect answer.  No objective opinion.

Roses?  What roses?   :o
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #92 on: March 17, 2019, 05:32:21 AM »
Roses....yes she went out on Friday to watch a band play with friends....came back with a rose given to her by 1 of the band members who she has been chatting with and who she had coffee with.....

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #93 on: March 17, 2019, 05:42:14 AM »
Oh ok, I see.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #94 on: March 17, 2019, 05:45:31 AM »
Was she wanting you to GO to a uncoupling counsellor or was she wanting to BE one? I didn't understand that.

Oh my days, I have a mental picture now of an MLC relationship uncoupling counsellor.... ::) ::) ::) their room would be full of 'you deserve bliss' posters I guess....

On the kids issue, wait a bit and see what others suggest particularly as your kids are small. Maybe that is the issue you want to take to the MC session? I think say little but be truthful, assume the MLC spouse will avoid, blame you and lie and have faith that your kids will judge things more on what they see and your actions than on what you say, so there is no need to find any 'perfect' words. And actually YOU don't know what will practically happen next so pretty difficult for you to tell your kids what will happen right?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 05:46:55 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #95 on: March 17, 2019, 05:48:49 AM »
Yes not sure what will happen next.  I'm just leaving her alone now.

She wanted to become an uncoupling counselor!!!! And thought I would say....good plan let me pay for it.....

Online Treasur

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #96 on: March 17, 2019, 05:59:38 AM »
OMG  :o
That's what I thought you meant...but it was so crazy I thought I had misunderstood you.

The universe brings us these small WTF gifts to remind us that this is not our fault and we are not insane and that our spouse is not the normal ticket.
Who would think that rationally while your own marriage and family is in an unresolved crisis that you would have the capability or objectivity to train as any kind of relationship counsellor?....yup, that sounds like one of those bits of MLC spaghetti thrown against the wall to see if it sticks. An 'I will be happy if...' and of course a few days ago didn't she want you to help her set up a completely different business? (Which humbly I would suggest you stay a million miles away from and tell her to get professional help like any other start up  :) )
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #97 on: March 17, 2019, 06:08:42 AM »
hahaha, that gave me a good laugh!

Okay, so I am not insane!  :o :o  I was thinking the exact same thing, like "Hang on, I am trying to process this - so you think you can now help other people while your own situation is not even resolved".....I think she assumed, based on our relationship that I will get onboard with the idea of uncoupling and it would be this magical solution to our problem.

Correct about the other business......

There has been many things over the past year that I just brushed to the side, telling myself I am being jealous or insecure or whatever, but I realize that I was wrong.  I also don't exactly understand why she is angry with me.....all I stated was the actual consequences IF she wanted to go ahead, no judging nothing, just that if you do X then Y will likely happen. Also, I was told numerous times that I do NOT affect her happiness.......she does not look very happy to me now though.

Shame, I really feel for her - I can see why she thinks she is trapped, BUT you need to grow up and realize what you have is probably a lot better than what you think you will get on your own out there.  I am just really seeing this child, crazy!

Pls keep me in your prayers that the in-laws don't support her in her thinking - last we talked they were on my side.....but who knows.

And you know what gets me?  She can sit and mope over all this, I need to get back to work - something I really struggle to focus on.  So all this childish behavior is seriously affecting the business I am in.......
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 06:12:30 AM by lovemywife »

Online Treasur

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #98 on: March 17, 2019, 06:15:35 AM »
If it helps, love, you'll find as an LBS that you will start to 'get your eye in' on MLC spaghetti nonsense and teenage tantrum stuff. Being that bit more detached, not rushing in to fix but standing back, does help you see it for what is is. Can't stop it happening but saves your sanity anyway! And cash probably!
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

Grateful for any appearance of the tiny karma bus  
"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #99 on: March 17, 2019, 06:23:20 AM »
Thanks Treasur!

I just sit here sometimes thinking, "How did we get here?" - we were really so happy, we rarely had any arguments, but the last year we surely made up for that!  People called us the Power Couple!  But I can see where I am growing, so I am starting to see the purpose of this - I can also see where W is growing and what she needs to deal with, I just hope she gets there before she throws it all away......I really do.

However, I know that my world does not revolve around her anymore, that I got to a month or 2 ago already......and now I can see where I need to change in my ways as well.  It almost feel like we on the same journey, just different roads.  I honestly feel I have become a better person through this, while I can not see how W can think she has.

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #100 on: March 17, 2019, 06:40:28 AM »
You're not saying or wondering any thing different than the rest of us have.

Most people on this site had good, solid marriages until one of the spouses went off in La La Land.
It's a terrible, destructive thing that hits them..and you literally are in shock and can do nothing about it.

So your singing to the choir.  We were all confused.

Seriously all you can do is live your life the best you can and let her spin around.
In her fogged up mind she wants out but expects you to not only help her rip the marriage apart, but you should pay for it to.  Coo Coo   ::)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #101 on: March 17, 2019, 06:58:35 AM »
Thanks Thunder.  So now it is a bit of a waiting game.....

Can I read anything into the fact that she backs of the D idea when I do not want to go along with that?

Then also, pls can someone explain this to me.  So her parents arrive, and eventually her mom wants to make coffee and I get up and say I would.  I make coffee for me and the in-laws, because W does not drink coffee.  I do not ask her if she wants something, hell I just got kicked out of the room!  So later she stands up in front of parents saying "I will make my own tea as I was not offered" and she walks off......I don't respond.  She comes back with her tea, walks passed me saying sarcastically "Thanks for offering to make me something".......I still don't respond.....

She keeps on locking and unlocking our bedroom door to keep me out....but I must ask her if she wants tea?!?!?! 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 07:08:32 AM by lovemywife »

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #102 on: March 17, 2019, 07:14:16 AM »
Some do.

I mean how is she going to afford a lawyer, or an apartment, car insurance, phone, groceries, clothes?
She would need to get a full-time job and still wouldn't be living as good as she is now.  Even if you had to pay child support or spousal maintenance for a few years, it's still not going to be easy.

I hope she figures that out on her own.  Just let her think it out on her own. 

I sure wouldn't bring it up anymore and I sure wouldn't ask her.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #103 on: March 17, 2019, 07:15:59 AM »
Thx Thunder - I updated last post with a part about tea :-)  Did I act wrong not to ask?

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #104 on: March 17, 2019, 07:25:28 AM »
Imho, she wants what she wants...but it probably was a bit petty and passive-aggressive of you. If she was an acquaintance say or a neighbour and you were behaving with common social courtesy, you would have asked or made tea i suspect.

You probably feel angry about the bedroom thing and a bit powerless, so you took a small 'sucks to you' swipe. And she responded back with a bit of passive aggressive snark.

That's ok- in the greater scheme of things it doesn't matter, but it might help you to see that it is a bit passive aggressive and I'm not sure that's the kind of person you want to be. So, let it go, understand why you did it and try not to do it again. Treat her civilly like an acquaintance or a distant family member you don't know well.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #105 on: March 17, 2019, 07:30:03 AM »
Of course not, like you said..you should reward her for kicking you out of your bedroom???
That would be crazy.
That's her consequence for her actions.

You don't need to act mean, but just let her do things for herself.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #106 on: March 17, 2019, 07:40:59 AM »
Oops, looks like Treasur and I actually disagreed on something.  That has to be a first.   :)
Actually I can see it both ways.  I have to be careful not to think too jaded sometimes.

I was only looking at consequences for her actions, not to be mean to her.
She's not incapable of making herself a cup of tea.  She was capable enough to move your clothes without your help.

Well Ilove, guess this is entirely up to you. 
To be honest it probably won't even matter.  So do what you feel most comfortable with.
I will support either decision you make.  You've been doing pretty good with your decisions so far.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #107 on: March 17, 2019, 07:45:08 AM »
It is a first, Thunder ha ha.
I think we both agree though that love is understandably just learning to adapt his behaviour to a new (surreal) normal and that these small things won't make a difference one way or the other. That big boundaries count but small irritations are just part of the ebb and flow.  ;)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #108 on: March 17, 2019, 07:48:13 AM »
Yep, I agree!   ;D
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #109 on: March 17, 2019, 08:14:55 AM »
Thanks Treasur and Thunder!

Honestly, I did not even think of asking her, it just did not enter my mind at all.  So I did not intent any malice.

Had a chat with FIL - we on the same page it seems - if she wants out she needs to get a job and make it happen.....so feeling better about that.

So, is it okay to see the lack of a job for her as a possible blessing in disguise - basically holding her here?  Because right now we are playing for time if I am right?

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #110 on: March 17, 2019, 08:42:45 AM »
Well yes and no.  It can make her stay but then she could always stay with friend, if she wanted to.

But yes I do think it's a plus she has no job, for now. 

I hate the term "waiting it out" because not all of them come back so waiting for them really makes no sense.  You can hope she comes back but that's about it.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #111 on: March 17, 2019, 08:59:28 AM »
yeah I understand that.  It is so weird, she is pretending to be this happy person in front of her parents (loud and talkative), but behind the scenes she is not like that at all. 

I have to say, it is scary to think I am standing for something that may not happen, but as I have seen in BB's posts, it does take a long time.  Even if she awakes tomorrow, it could take a long time to get back.....

Her mom told her (I hear from FIL) that she must think about D very carefully, she will need to get a job etc etc etc.  so in-laws seem to be on my side.  Also no bad talk about me apparently.....which makes sense as there isn't any. 

Just can't fathom how they are so misguided.....


Offline PJ Ames

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #112 on: March 17, 2019, 09:32:21 PM »
Catching up LMW. Yikes! Sounds tense at home! Hang in there.

I know how you feel with having your smallest microaggressions being treated like huge deals while your W minimizes her own mistreatment of you. It sucks, but try not to take it personal. And the tea thing - in normal times that wouldn't have been a big deal at all, right? So try not to let your brain get twisted into pretzels by things like that. I know it's exasperating.

Thunder and Treasur are giving wise advice as always. Nothing to add but another voice in the choir. You seem to be keeping your sanity well. Keep rolling with the punches and take care of yourself.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Whyus

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #113 on: March 18, 2019, 01:20:12 AM »
Firstly, i love the way that treasur calls you "love",  :D its cute but we all know where these harmless comments can lead dont we?  ;)

If it helps, love, you'll find ..........  :D

Seriously, the tea Thing. Thats a difficult one, I stopped doing Things for my XW but sometimes there was no harm in asking if she too wanted a tea if I was making a coffee. There was one incident pre BD where XW made herself a coffee (Decaff of Course) without asking me, she sat down with her Tablet and done whatever. I said, "Thanks, the coffees perfect" (as I had expectations that she would make me one too as always  ;D) and she answered "oops, I didnt think about you" to which I replied "You just summed up the last few weeks in a matter of seconds" and then left and walked the dogs.
Its no biggy and will have no relivance on her your Story unfolds.

The telling the Kids Thing! This a biggy and you shouldnt rush but also dont let  them figure it out themselves or hear from anybody else.
Let your W explain (I explained our Situation as my XW crumbled and couldnt do it, i didnt know about OM att). She Needs to own this but you have to be present to stop her just talking $h!te/ Lying to cover herself.

The ILs. Mine were great for 19 months and now nothing. La Famiglia cannot look me in the face though MIL always tells the Boys to say hi to me. Remember though, Blood is thicker than water and when the $h!te gets real you may loose their Support as they will Support their innocent Little Darling daughter. Just a Little warning from my own experience.

......and, YOU shouldnt have left your bedroom, she wants out then she should leave. There is no "Because"! You arent looking for Change, she is so she should leave the bedroom.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is trying to get People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 20
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Online Silver

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #114 on: March 18, 2019, 02:00:30 AM »
I hate the term "waiting it out" because not all of them come back so waiting for them really makes no sense.  You can hope she comes back but that's about it.

THIS!

About the Tea-gate, teen acting up. No reason not to be polite but taking account you got kicked off your bedroom if I got it right.. Maybe not offering tea for her was just a tiny reminder that you are not a doormat?
"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #115 on: March 18, 2019, 07:04:34 AM »
Thanks PJ, Whyus and Silver!

Today I have been out most of the day, so only got a text from W asking me some questions which I suspect have hidden motives behind them, dont know yet what they are, but not really being very talkative with her.  I do think she is up to something, but I guess that is to be expected?

I enjoyed sleeping alone last night  ;D ;D ;D I felt like a bachelor!

Online Silver

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #116 on: March 18, 2019, 07:10:09 AM »
Yes she may well be up to something, OR you may over-analyze.
Sleeping alone is really ok for me too, most of the time. When kids are at my place, they usually sleep in my bed in turns and that's great but when it is my week alone, I'm perfectly happy to have all the bed just for ME  ;D
"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #117 on: March 18, 2019, 07:27:36 AM »
Be on your toes, lovemy.
If your gut is telling you something is going on, there may be something to it.

Time will tell.  You may not be punished enough yet.   ::)

A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #118 on: March 18, 2019, 08:08:33 AM »
haha, very true Thunder.  Thx Silver!

She asked me if I read another book she recommended a long time ago and I didn't.  I was wanting to give reasons to defend myself why I didn't, and I thought to myself, "You know what? I am not going to defend my actions (or lack thereof) anymore, and I just said No and left it there".  I knew the book in question would "support" her feelings/actions etc. so I had no want to read it.

I guess I am about 90odd percent detached, I do get sad when I think about things, but I am very close to being numb.  I do struggle to really focus on work though as my mind run away with me, can you guys recommend something that I could take to keep me focused maybe?  Is it okay to take something?

Offline Thunder

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #119 on: March 18, 2019, 08:23:00 AM »
There is but a doctor would need to give it to you.

Maybe you should find a book on "How to appreciate your Husband" and tell her to read it.

Ha ha ha ha... I am kidding.
You gave a good reply.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #120 on: March 18, 2019, 10:08:33 AM »
Haha thunder! Funny!  Just realizing how these MLCers focus ONLY on things that support their cause.....nothing else exist.

Thx again guys for listening to my issues!

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #121 on: March 18, 2019, 10:58:43 AM »
AD medication helped me to focus, a lot. After 2 weeks I started them I felt like woken up, started to see clearer and feel more energetic etc. I obviously needed it, not sure if you do though. What makes me think is you are talking about feeling numb and not focused, you could visit your doctor, buddy.
"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Online lovemywifeTopic starter

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Re: MLC Wife
« Reply #122 on: March 18, 2019, 12:07:52 PM »
Thx Silver.....maybe numb was the wrong word choice.....I just need to not get distracted by W and het shenanigans.  I need to get some serious work done and out....

 

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