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Author Topic: My Story Reconnecting Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3

J
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My Story Reconnecting Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
OP: March 27, 2019, 11:32:44 AM
link to my previous thread https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8589.0

Things are going well with my H.  Friends of ours asked us to go as a family on spring break and H said yes....he is closing his office, paid the $3k for the rental property and we leave on Saturday for Florida.  A week away from it all!  Honestly aside from his family's big beach vacation we go on every June....H has NEVER taken off extended time EVER in all the 22 years of our marriage to go on a vacation.  Early on it was money related, but honestly as time went on I don't think it was a priority to spend time with me or with his family.  It is so nice to have that now....it's been a long time coming!  I think about it all and I think back to how he was raised.  What his parents priorities were.  His dad really never did or still doesn't spend much time with his mom.  Sure they have been married for 52 years but really they are more irritable roommates more than husband and wife.  Crazy how much your childhood influences what you do as an adult.

But I am looking forward to this trip.  Sitting on the beach, no alarm clocks, we have a pool at the house we are renting, I picked up two of my future book club books to get reading....I am packing lots of yummy snacks and plan on making bloody marys to start the day off right!  LOL  Wish us safe travel and some nice sunny days!!!!  It's so nice to feel happy and looking forward to time together!

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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#1: March 27, 2019, 01:43:37 PM
Lovely J, hope you have a great time. You’re right about modelling, we don’t learn how to be married, except from watching our parents, no wonder things can go awry 😕
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BD December 2013, left home August 2014, D June 2018
OW 17 years younger

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#2: March 27, 2019, 02:27:31 PM
I hope you have a lovely holiday.
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#3: March 27, 2019, 03:47:23 PM
Jo--I am so happy for you both. Have a wonderful time with H. A new tradition it seems. And a very good one. I shall pray for sunny skies throughout the duration!
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S13
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H Moved out 6/16
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#4: March 30, 2019, 05:08:27 AM
JoJoJo must admit I haven't read your story but I'm a sucker for purple.

The wise LBS always tell us to watch for their actions. I didn't always understand what that meant.  Your post made it crystal clear what ACTIONS on their part looks like. 

Along for the ride and so happy for you.
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Married 21 years
Bomb 💣 Drop O7-2014
Husband Left 09-2014
Divorce 2015
S27; D23; D20
No contact 2015-2018
Contact and Positive communication-01-2019
Unsure if he’s dating; Unsure if I'm still standing
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“I walked a mile with Pleasure;
She chatted all the way;
But left me none the wiser
For all she had to say.

I walked a mile with Sorrow;
And ne’er a word said she;
But, oh! The things I learned from her,          
When Sorrow walked with me.”
Robert Browning Hamilton

J
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#5: April 08, 2019, 11:30:16 AM
Home from a week away at the beach!  We had a fun time...adults and kids.  Got a bit of sun.  Played cards, walked up to a beach front bar for drinks and fried cheese bites!  We rented bikes and rode around the island.  It was relaxing and a nice getaway.  Now back to reality.....I am a teacher so we are at the end of our school year....the countdown begins.  We are also starting the end of the year testing so really real school work is done.....wrapping things up. 

H is planning his 50th birthday "guys' trip" to Nashville and Louisville....music, craft beer and then heading on distillery tours on the bourbon trail.  It bothers me that he picks a trip like that.....make me feel like given the choice, he'd rather be with the guys and not with me.  I mean my 50th is in October.  He could have planned a nice trip for the two of us....but instead it's like this recapture your youth hanging with the guys.  I don't know.  I brought it up after a few drinks on vacation.  He thinks we need to discuss this in our next therapy session.  It's just I see so many changes in him, he has come back from the selfish jerk place he was living during MLC but....then this trip is planned and it just reminds me.  I see glimpses of that ugly attitude.  I don't know.  It bothers me. 

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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

K
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#6: April 08, 2019, 11:44:06 AM
Totally normal to be triggered by what may be construed as a replay activity. I get it. But I think it is very positive that H wants to discuss it in therapy.  I for one, always took girls trips. I stink girls/guys trips are actually quite healthy. However,  in this scenario I can see how you would feel left out again. But maybe there is an opportunity to also celebrate his 50th as a couple in addition to this guys trip.

Anyway, what I see as important here is that you communicate how this makes you feel and why. I am sure there is still some amount of self-centeredness in his not-quite-fully-cooked MLCer brain and likely has no idea that this could possibly impact you at all.

Remember, it takes time to re-build what has  been completely destroyed. Time, patience and baby steps.

Hugs friend.
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Me 49
H 47
S13
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#7: April 08, 2019, 02:32:47 PM
Attaching
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Me - 28
H - 35
3 children together D3 D6 D8 (D1 D4 and D6 at the time of BD)
Together - almost 8 years

BD & MLCer moved out - November 2017
OW discovered - December 2017
Moved in with Ow - November 2019
Ow met children - December 2019

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#8: April 08, 2019, 04:03:10 PM
How do you feel about waiting to talk with your counselor about it?  It’s totally normal to feel the way you do and you should be able to bring it up.  Back when I was being gaslit though, “let’s talk about that with our therapist” was code for, you are overreacting and I will have our MC tell you so.  Turns out, I was rarely over reacting but he got her to tell me so every single time.
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M: 45
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No kids
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BD1 (Summer 2014) "We aren't happy, I should move out, we should divorce"  Nothing happened.
Nov 2014 we moved across the country for H's job
BD2 (July 2015) "I'm not happy.  I want a divorce"  H moves out for 2 weeks.
BD3 (Nov 2017) H takes a new job 2 hours away and moves out.
BD4 (September 2018) OW2 discovered despite claims there has never been one.  She outs MOW1 and discloses that H filed for Divorce, but has not served me.  OW2 dumps him.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#9: April 08, 2019, 06:17:39 PM
Quote
he has come back from the selfish jerk place he was living during MLC but....then this trip is planned and it just reminds me.  I see glimpses of that ugly attitude.  I don't know.  It bothers me. 
.

I think it is important to accept that "reminders" and triggers will be with us ...forever. I believe that 100%. Whenever we remember our life or look back at our history , this will forever be part of our memories . We cannot just take a pair of scissors and cut out this particular time frame. And it changed us . It was gutwretching painfull. So given all of that...how could you NOT feel "uncomfortable" about what appears to be "maybe" the actions of a "selfish jerk".  I believe it is a good idea to talk about it in therapy, we frequently take issues to our therapist. What I do see in you that is remarkable is "responding" and not so much reactivity and I am standing an applauding. It seems wise and calm on your part. I STILL can be extremely reactive ...STILL! .
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Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#10: April 12, 2019, 07:27:57 AM
KIT...you are right, time is the key!

And honestly his self-centeredness is nothing new.  It went sky high during his MLC and the affair but it was always part of him.  I think it is how he was raised, to make himself happy....his parents never stressed that you do for others....and an example of this in 1998, we had our first baby, literally two weeks before Thanksgiving, his parents come to town and we are going to his aunt's country club for Thanksgiving dinner.  Aunt invites H and his brother and his sister to come play tennis at the club before dinner.  We have a brand new baby and this is actually my FIRST real outing with a newborn and I am breastfeeding.  I know I am going to have to breastfeed in public and I am nervous....instead of telling his family no, he goes!  He says his mom will come "help me out with the baby".  Well his mom is a lovely woman but she is flaky, she brings my sister-in-law who was 6 months pregnant and my 3 year old niece.  I adore these people BUT I am a new mom, who is still bleeding into those big huge post pregnancy pads, with sore not used to breastfeeding boobs, and now I have a tiny apartment full of guests (we lived in a 710 square foot one bedroom apartment) and I have to pack up the baby, get myself together, etc....  I was a emotional mess but trying to keep my sh*t together when I see him at dinner....and he is 100% clueless! 
I do see that now he works at trying to think of me, to put me and the kids first, but it really doesn't seem to come naturally to him.  Actually now that I think of it, it is sad for him.....I like that generous giving side of myself and it feels better to be helpful to someone else than to be selfish....

Strawberry- I think H genuinely wants us to have productive discussions in a controlled environment.  When I was being gaslit he would just turn everything around on me.  I was the one who had problems, it was MY PERSONALITY....he didn't want to talk at ALL in therapy.  It was a mess!  And he is right, we don't need to discuss our troubles when we are drinking and when I am at a crazy emotional high.

Barbie-  I appreciate you pointing out my positives.  I don't often feel positive about myself.  I do see that reactive stuff coming out when I am drinking.  I need to stop after a two drinks....that would make things better for me.

So yesterday here at work a co-worker confided in me that she had a conversation with her sister-in-law who is trying to cope with an affair and staying in her marriage.  She was saying how she feels like her sister-in-law is obsessing about things and how she doesn't know how to help her.  She was asking about the couples therapist we see but they live too far away.  It just really pulled at my heart strings.  I know my co-worker is awesome, but I also know she just doesn't "get it" so she isn't equipped to help her sister-in-law.  I referred this forum as a place to send her sister-in-law to find people who understand her feelings.  I just HATE that any of us need to be here,  this brings out anger in me.  I really felt tears welling up in my eyes for a complete stranger.  Ok I can feel myself gritting my teeth and my leg starts to bounce as a reaction even as I type this.  I will NEVER understand what these MLC do to the people they love, what they do to themselves.  My co-worker was describing her brother-in-law (the cheater) and had a disgusted look on her face and that is HIS legacy.  She said it was so out of character for this man she knew for years....they have no idea...  dumba$$es! 
Ugh!  Thanks for reading this far....

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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

J
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#11: April 15, 2019, 12:06:37 PM
Therapy was very productive yesterday.  H is so open to admitting his weaknesses and not playing the blame game anymore....it isn't all about my personality and what I do or don't do.

He seems invested in US....and how we communicate.  He has been sharing his feelings, talking about his past and where he thinks his issues come from....this is the man who very bluntly told me years ago exactly what he would and wouldn't discuss with me. 

I feel like I am in a new relationship with the man I have been married to for 22 years....
I wish we could have had our relationship mature without the pain and heartache we went through but....maybe that is just the path we were meant to take?
Just happy the way things are going.....



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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

s
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#12: April 15, 2019, 01:38:43 PM
It all seems very positive steps jo! The only thing I can reallt say is I do really believe that everything happens for a reason and unfortunately the journey isn’t always pretty but the destination is worth it.
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H - 35
3 children together D3 D6 D8 (D1 D4 and D6 at the time of BD)
Together - almost 8 years

BD & MLCer moved out - November 2017
OW discovered - December 2017
Moved in with Ow - November 2019
Ow met children - December 2019

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#13: April 15, 2019, 04:26:39 PM
I am so glad you are finding the good from this situation.

Sometimes growth can only come from pain.

Little consolation in the early days perhaps, but...maybe easier to understand at your stage? :)
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J
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#14: April 24, 2019, 07:30:55 AM
sachat and mortes.....I think the only way to stay sane and to not feel punished by God or the universe or whatever you believe in is to look for the good that comes from bad situations.  Without bad times, can you really appreciate the good things in life?  Well of course after going through H*LL I choose to say NOPE....those bad times help me feel happy about the good things! 

So positive step in H communicating and taking me and my feelings in consideration today....
I was leaving for work and he said he has the last night of this study club series he has been going to for professional growth and development.  He wanted me to know that the class asked that you bring one member of your staff tonight, specifically someone who deals with patient scheduling or patient money collections.  He asked his new front desk/office manager to attend.  He made the point that they will drive their own vehicles, no sharing a ride to the location, he will leave and come straight home after the meeting, no going out for dinner or drinks after to discuss what they just learned in the study group.  He said he wanted to assure me that he is keeping his relationship 100% professional. 

It meant a lot to me that he is thinking to safeguard our relationship.  In years past when I felt he was too loosey goosey with his office manager who eventually became the OW he would laugh it off....he felt he was in control and I was just trying to be bossy. 

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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#15: April 24, 2019, 08:18:19 AM
I 100% agree. You’ve got to find the silver linings of the clouds. Heck some days I’m so happy for the friends I have now, which I wouldn’t have had had BD not happened and I’m almost *almost* thankful for MLC.

It’s great your H is making these progresses but even better that he’s doing it without being asked!
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Me - 28
H - 35
3 children together D3 D6 D8 (D1 D4 and D6 at the time of BD)
Together - almost 8 years

BD & MLCer moved out - November 2017
OW discovered - December 2017
Moved in with Ow - November 2019
Ow met children - December 2019

J
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#16: July 23, 2019, 06:31:16 AM
Update...
So we did our Retrouvaille weekend in June and now we are halfway through our follow up sessions.  Have done 3 of the 6 follow ups.  H is fully committed and getting up on Saturday mornings at 7:30 to drive 35 minutes with no complaints or even hesitation.  So much emotional connection in Retrouvaille, sharing your feelings and trying to understand your spouse’s feelings they share.  It’s been good...hard work but overall good.  Wish we had been mature enough to do this years ago!  But glad we are doing it now!  It does stir up unsettling feelings though.  Last week was about forgiveness and after we went to the hospital to visit an employee of H who is battling cancer.  This employee was the person who when it all came out was the one and only person to SEE H and the other woman together....she walked in on an intimate situation at the office.  He told me after it happened he asked her “What are you going to do?” and she said “Nothing, it’s none of my business.”  Knowing what she saw and said, knowing if she had blew it all up I could have been spared years of emotional pain and then sitting there in the hospital being a comfort to her during her toughest time spun my emotions into a mess!  Sunday I cried and cried and cried....just couldn’t get a grip!  H almost gets angry with me saying I shouldn’t be angry with anyone but him.  It’s all so complicated and he won’t ever understand.  I appreciate he wants to protect innocent people that got dragged into the crazy situation he is responsible for but...it sucks all around and I resent being told what I should feel by the number one person who put me in this horrific situation!

Anyway that’s an update and if you are reconnecting with your spouse and you both want to make your marriage better and a priority I suggest Retrouvaille.  It is Catholic based but very little religious references...it’s about communication and making your marriage stronger.  No one is turned away due to cost... and while it is HARD work emotionally...so worth it!

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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#17: July 23, 2019, 02:21:21 PM
Thank you for the update, Jojo.

Happy to know that despite not being easy things keep improving.

H almost gets angry with me saying I shouldn’t be angry with anyone but him. 

He is kind of right, isn't he? It is all on him.

As for the employee, I would do/say what she did/said. It is none of my business. Why do you think if she told you it would spare you years of emotional pain? I received an anonymous phone call telling me about Mr J and OW1. It didn't made a difference. And I had been certain that there was someone else for a couple of months.

In my view, the blow would be the same and there would be equally nothing we could do because there isn't a thing we can do about MLC. Now, what I think would had been different, at least in terms or truth and loyalty, was for Mr J to tell me, rather than lie.
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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#18: July 25, 2019, 09:56:59 AM
I disagree.

While it isn't her fault he was doing what he was doing...she kept important information from you. Without that information you were no longer able to make an informed choice.

Would her telling you have changed anything? Maybe.

But that isn't the important part is it? The important part is feeling betrayed by everyone. He knew. OW knew. The co-worker knew. You start to question who else looked you in the face, smiled...and knew.

Your relationship 'wasn't her business' but that is a coward conflict avoidant move if I ever saw one. It isn't fair to keep your mouth shut when someone is being kept in the dark about something so important.

For all she knew you could have contracted a disease or anything because she kept her mouth shut.

You have every right to be mad at her for what SHE did. And that was keeping you in the dark.
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#19: July 25, 2019, 11:19:40 AM
I was told by a friend, that she saw my husband in a gift shop with another woman..of a certain nationality which is the same as the nationality of his OW. It was in a town close by, a place that is lovely and quaint, a place I stay away from..years later, the street he was on with her, the image of them looking at stuff in the gift shop together still invades my mind. Such a shame, it is a delightful town. I would like to go there to browse or have dinner but I am not comfortable there.

I have thought about it alot. I wish my friend had not told me. It just added another vision into my head that I am unable to reverse, even years later it haunts me.

I would have preferred not knowing. I already knew there was an OW...anything else didn't matter.
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 11:21:09 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#20: July 25, 2019, 02:25:42 PM
Everyone is different. Ii there had been an ow in my case, i would prefer to be told "I saw your husband kissing this other person. You might want to ask him the circumstances". It wouldn't ruin any place for me, and as Mortesbride said, given me the opporty it to make an informed choice.  Having conflicting emotions over comforting someone who withheld information from you makes complete sense if you are a person who likes to make decisions based on the knowledge of all facts avaiable.

And we get to be angry at whomever we choose. No one gets to tell us how we are supposed to feel. It's within his scope to say that it was all his fault and that he would like it if you weren't mad at so and so, but he doesn't get to tell you what you should do. That is for you to decide.
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 02:28:28 PM by OffRoad »
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#21: July 25, 2019, 05:04:30 PM
Maybe the difference is that in mine and Xyzcf's case is that we already knew there was OW? Telling was, as we were told, what we already knew, made no difference.

I wonder exactly what measures could you ladies take. I told Mr J in his face I knew there was someone else. It made no difference, and, as far as I am concerned, it did not help prepare for the reality of a spouse who lives to be with OW. There is a big difference between the existence of someone else and a spouse leaving to be with that person.

On the other hand, when I was a teen, my uncle told me he had OW. I did not told my aunt. I did not knew if she already knew, in which case I would be bringing up something she knew and may not want to speak about. If she did not knew, since all I was told by my uncle is that there was OW, I did not knew if my aunt and uncle were, or were not, going to work things out. I could see no positive in I, a teenager, breaking the news to my aunt.

Many years later I found out my aunt had knew for years. My uncle's OW has existed since we were children, but as children we had no clue about it.

What I may do with friends I know are cheating is say something to the friend, not their spouse or partner. I never saw any good in telling a spouse/partner.


I am not hauted by the anonymous phone calls (there were two, one after the one telling who OW1 was) nor by had seen, by chance, Mr J with OW1 once. When we both still lived in the capital and OW1 was around we would always tell each other in which part of town/venues we were going to be to avoid unecessary pain, but that once. For some reason, that weekend, we forgot to text each other.

That night, Mr J told me two people had told him they had seen me with someone (of course they had, I was going out to concerts and dancing with a number of friends, but that was it). I asked him if those people knew what happened, he said one knew, the other didn't. My reply was, the one who knows is an idiot, the one who does not knows likes to ruin marriages. That is my view of people who tell a partner/spouse, they are into drama and ruin marriages. Because, 99.9% of the time someone did that, the relationship/marriaged end right away.

Of course this is my life experience and my way of seeing things.

Yes, we get to be mad/angry at whomever we like. But, in a view, a point comes when we need to realize being mad/angry only hurts us more. Anger can be a great driving foward force. Other than that, it tends to cause damage. To ourselves, as well as to others.
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#22: July 25, 2019, 06:08:50 PM
Quote
But that isn't the important part is it? The important part is feeling betrayed by everyone. He knew. OW knew. The co-worker knew. You start to question who else looked you in the face, smiled...and knew.
.

I continue to feel betrayed by "everyone" in the family that knew...and I did not. None of them stepped up and said anything to me. It is a permanent severe of those that cowardly chose to "mind their own business". Safeguarding my daughters should have been part of their business. It will never be repaired to a entact family again...ever.
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#23: July 26, 2019, 04:33:15 AM
I guessed there was an OW at BD when H talked about a business friend who he really liked but I didn't know who. 

However it was later confirmed who it was by someone who knew all 3 of us and they phoned me full of apology and angst to let me know who it was and what they had seen.

I thanked them for letting me know - they felt they couldn't keep quiet but by then I had been BDd and everything had changed anyway.  All it did was confirm my suspicions as to who it was.   
Sadly these friends were in a performing arts group that all 3 of us had belonged to and OW and H had the effrontery to stay with the group and perform in concerts.  These friends did nothing except to ignore them. Inside I really wanted them to say something or eject them from the group but it really was none of their business and it would have been inappropriate of me to ask.

As I said on another thread - more often than not people who are not directly connected with us who see wrong things happening more often than not will NOT inform the respective spouse because it is "none of their business. It's a form of self protection. 

Had your H asked these female colleague to keep quiet and complicit in his affair then that is poor judgement on her part but that doesn't mean she has to let you know.  If she chose to contact you, would it have stopped what was happening between H and OW?

Perhaps H should have visited this person on his own.  Easy to say in hindsight.

Your tears are part of the necessary cathartic process that we all go through time and time again.  It's not for him to say anything to you about this even though he may be right - you should only be angry with him.

This too shall pass

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OW for 3.5 years - finishing Autumn 2016
Reconnection started 2017 and still going with no sign of reconciliation.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#24: July 26, 2019, 04:34:18 AM
Quote
But that isn't the important part is it? The important part is feeling betrayed by everyone. He knew. OW knew. The co-worker knew. You start to question who else looked you in the face, smiled...and knew.
.

I continue to feel betrayed by "everyone" in the family that knew...and I did not. None of them stepped up and said anything to me. It is a permanent severe of those that cowardly chose to "mind their own business". Safeguarding my daughters should have been part of their business. It will never be repaired to a entact family again...ever.

Family knowing and saying nothing though is completely different and creates all kinds of inner conflict that can run very deep indeed.
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Reconnection started 2017 and still going with no sign of reconciliation.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#25: July 26, 2019, 08:39:43 AM
I still think it is a cop out if I am honest.

Saying people who 'tell only want to cause drama' is just justification for keeping it to yourself.

It isn't being told about the OW that breaks the marriage...its the fact the man is with the OW.

I knew all of Beast's co-workers at his work. I used to bring the kids in after they were born. They used to buy our kids little presents and fawn over them. Always so excited to see them.

Then Beast starts dating a co-worker. None of them say a thing. Women I have known for nearly 9 years. Women who fawned over our children. Who got excited to see them as if they were their own grandchildren. Women who knew I was from overseas and gave up everything to come here. Women who loved our 'love story'.

They were just ''minding their own business''.

It felt like they all betrayed me. Not because they were involved in what he did. But because they 'kept their mouths shut'.

I wondered how many of them knew. How many of them kept silent while I brought my children in. How many smiled and laughed with me while knowing what was happening.

It is cowardly. It is dishonest. Whatever excuse you want to give it.
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#26: July 26, 2019, 10:38:19 AM
Quote
It is cowardly. It is dishonest. Whatever excuse you want to give it

Yes it is but most people I know would rather not get involved in someone else's marriage because more often than not - they don't get MLC and as far as they are concerned "the marriage must have been on rocky ground anyway " And " If my H or W ever did this to me I would divorce them on the spot " etc......

People only see it from their paradigm and to say it's none of their business is a cop out; it is a feeble excuse but IMHO the fact remains that people will not get involved unless they feel highly motivated to do so.

I have learned to trust no-one implicitly and not to rely on them to do or say the "right thing". Not H, not my close circle of friends who all supported me but told me to move on  and not my wider circle of friends who kept their distance until they realised I was ok. 
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#27: July 26, 2019, 11:08:33 AM

I have learned to trust no-one implicitly and not to rely on them to do or say the "right thing".

And that my friend is the moto I live by. Sometimes we have to do the right thing, even when no one else is doing it.
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#28: September 08, 2019, 02:59:19 AM
So she died....the employee of my H who walked in and saw H and the OW getting it on in his office and never told me...she’s gone...brain aneurism while in the hospital fighting leukemia and she was in a coma in hospice.  We went yesterday to see her a few hours before she died.  H reminisced with her sisters about how she was the first person he hired when he opened his office 12 years ago.  I know he has emotions and sadness and I feel for him.  I also can’t deny the triggers and wondering if OW will be at the funeral. They did work together for 9 years.  I can’t say much to H because I am making this “all about me”.  I don’t mean to be that way.  I just have all these memories and I wonder.  It’s all so sad...and I hate the feelings and thoughts I am having!
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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#29: September 08, 2019, 08:09:43 AM
Sad news...let me take a different spin on all of it for you..
This woman probably made the best call she could at the time based on her situation. She may have made a different one in light of events or regretted the one she did make.

But perhaps your h is right...the real blame and responsibility lie with him.
Which is maybe difficult to work with when you are reconciling. But still true. He was the one who broke his obligations to you as your h...he made choices and they had effects. You may understand more now about why he made them, but he had other choices and made the ones he did.

And if indeed ow is at the funeral? Well you will be there with your h proving without saying a word that despite her efforts, the two of you managed to pull together to rebuild your marriage. And that has happened bc in the end it mattered enough to BOTH of you to do that.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#30: September 08, 2019, 10:51:06 AM
I was once in the unfortunate position of being told about an ongoing affair, and having to decide whether to tell my friend. One of my friends (A, who was newly married herself) was having an affair with the husband (H) of another friend of mine (C). I had been friends with C and H for years. A was a new friend, who confided in me about her affair with H. My husband was good friends with H. I told him what was going on, and we agonized over whether to tell C. C and H had small kids, and both were living in the US, but were from Europe.
I decided not to tell C. I reasoned that this was a short lived fling, and it would blow over. I worried that this could break up the marriage, and that C would leave the US with the kids. I told A that the affair had to stop, and I broke off my friendship with her. The affair ended quickly. C as far as I know still doesn't know, C and H are married, both seem to be happy. I am glad I didn't say anything. If the affair had carried on, I think I would have spoken up.
I think sometimes people don't want to break up a marriage, and just hope the affair is temporary. Now that I have been on the otherside of this s*#t show, I think I would want to know.
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H52
M50
Married 28 years, together 35.
BD 12/15 ILYBINILWY
Affair discovered 12/17
moved out 12/17
Trying to stand for the marriage.
H mentioned Divorce twice, no action yet.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#31: September 11, 2019, 12:09:55 PM
Thank  you for all the input in this situation.  Appreciate the comments before she passed and after...
I guess I just need to realize that people in general will do what works best for themselves in any given situation.
This woman had a job, it was her boss who was cheating, he owns the company and signs the paycheck.  The OW was the office manager and could have made her life day in and day out miserable if she wanted, so she had to just keep quiet.  And who knows sometimes people think it is ok, or expected for a 40 something year old guy with a bunch of kids to cheat...  I don't know.
I just know I have to move past all this.
I need to GAL....
Really I never did that.  I got a job....
I didn't get a life.
I need to concentrate on making ME happy.
Last night we did a dialogue question in our Retrouvaille notebooks.  This has been a valuable outlet for me to explain my feelings to my H and for me to understand his feelings about things.  It is 10 minutes of writing and then 10 minutes of sharing what we wrote, totally just describing feelings to your spouse that relate to the question at hand.  We take turns picking questions from a list of random questions.  Last night H chose a question about music and how we feel when we hear music from when we were first dating.  As I read how he looked at me then, and as I thought myself about how trusting, positive and happy I was then, and how that happy trusting positive person is gone I realized, I need to try to find a piece of her again.  I miss the old me!  I was awesome!
So I need to GAL....I need to find that old me.  I need to be happier.  Be positive.  stop living in the past.
I almost WANT to see OW at some point. I almost WANT to walk past her, hand in hand with H and know that she was the mistake.  I am the prize! 
I don't know if I will ever get that chance, and probably I don't want to see her again. 
But I have to keep my head up, I need to get my confidence and happiness back!
I have my marriage, I have my children, I have amazing family and friends who are still here with us....
That is all I need!
I need to remind myself of this, as I just saw on Saturday when H's employee passed away at 35, life is short and we are not guaranteed tomorrow!
Thank you all for being here....letting me get all my feelings out. 
Understanding...
Giving me things to think about, giving me positive messages.
It really means more than you will ever know!
 :)
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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#32: September 12, 2019, 03:55:16 PM
Goodness Jo,

35 is so young isn’t it. Good on you visiting her. 

You sound awesome so the old you is definitely in there still!

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#33: September 16, 2019, 08:32:39 AM
H and I talked about the celebration of life coming up for his employee.  I told him really it would be nice to know if OW was attending.  He had the well who cares attitude but after hearing me out he agreed, it would be nice to be prepared if she has RSVPed that she would be there.  The husband of his employee texted him to get of an idea of how many people from her "work family" who would be attending and H texted him back asking "I know this is uncomfortable but I have to ask , will OW (fill in blank with OW first name) be attending?"  The husband came back with "OW who?"  He didn't know who she was.  H replied "OW worked at my office two years ago but no longer is here."  The husband said "Well I have no idea who she is, so no she won't be invited" 
Made me feel good knowing OW is not even known and I can go without having to think about having  to run into her there!

H and I had therapy this weekend.  We really had some real conversation and I feel like we are communicating better than ever.  I think our downfall was we never fought, we never had conflict at all, I would cry, he would say forget it, and nothing was resolved....
I feel like we are getting to a much better, happier more mature relationship...
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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#34: September 16, 2019, 09:57:08 AM
Attaching to your thread Jo Jo - it gives me hope to read your story of reconciliation - it's so positive to read about your therapy sessions and what comes out of those.  It seems so obvious that all these discussions about how each person in the R feels and what they want out of life but so often these deep conversations don't occur or get swept to one side and then for too long.
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M: 49
W: 40
Married 1 year together 3.5 years
No kids but we have dogs
BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#35: October 03, 2019, 12:40:54 PM
Made it through the "celebration of life" last weekend.  It really was a sad event, seeing as the employee of H's who died was only 34 years old!  There was another old employee (not OW) who was planning to attend and I was feeling a bit anxious about seeing her...love her and she was very supportive of me and my family and of H NOT cheating, I found out she knew during the affair and repeatedly told H he was messing up his life and he needed to stop all of it.....but she didn't come.  All that worry and NOTHING!  It would have been nice to see her but a trigger.  It would have messed with me emotionally.  So that was kind of a relief.  I bet H felt the same.  I know he feels very sorry that he wasn't true to his character and he just let go and became the ugliest and most selfish version of himself.  I was thinking of that whole "Scarlet Letter" story....this stupid affair is a horrible mark on us...all of us.  My kids feel it, I feel it, H feels it, our extended family feel it to some lesser degree....and the only one who has walked off Scott Free is the OW.  But she was damaged goods to begin with. 

Well not much more to say....just trying to keep looking forward MORE than I am looking back! 



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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#36: October 03, 2019, 04:40:14 PM
Glad to know you've made it through the "celebration of life" weekend.
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#37: November 03, 2019, 09:19:13 AM
October was a busy month.
I turned 50!  Can’t even believe it! H was 50 in May.  Now we are both “old”!  LOL
But I really didn’t want to celebrate.  I still have issues thinking about the past 6 or 7 years and how I was so naive and stupid and really I don’t want to celebrate.  But everyone around me disagreed and made my birthday week so nice!  Weekend before I took Friday off of work, H rented a cabin an hour north of us in the mountains.  We drove up Thursday after work. We had fun...hung out in the hot tub, went into the little mountain town nearby and had lunch and beers overlooking the river.  It rained but we still had a good time.  H arranged for us to have dinner with old friends we’ve known 23 years.  Nothing like friends who “knew you when”!  Great night!  Then Saturday our 4 kids came up to spend the night...then as a surprise my two nieces, nephews, my great niece and nephew And two sisters in laws and their spouses showed up for dinner and brought me a cake!  We played cards and games and had fun!  Sunday morning it was just our family so we went out to eat at this delicious local place and drove home.  I wasn’t ready for real life just yet so H and I hit a local brewery on our way home!  Tuesday neighborhood friends threw me a “mom’s night out” party!  Wednesday night a couple we love insisted on a dinner out!  Then Thursday (Halloween) is my actual birthday so at work the teachers on my team made an awesome taco bar for lunch!  Friday night my sisters in law and 23 yr old niece took me to dinner and Cirque Du Soleil.  And last night Saturday my dearest friend and her husband took us to dinner and then ELTON JOHN CONCERT!  Amazing!  I am on such a high feeling loved in so many areas of my life.  H has been so caring and has told me often how much he loves and appreciates who I am as a person and thanks me for his second chance to do things right.  My self esteem has teetered in the low “I feel like a loser” range for awhile but really reflecting and feeling the low in so many areas of my life this past week I feel rejuvenated.  Maybe a piece of that old fun loving happy Jojo is poking through! 
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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#38: November 03, 2019, 05:18:55 PM
Happy belated birthday JoJo!
Sounds like things have turned around amazingly, and it's so nice to hear of your self-esteem returning.
The celebrations of your birthday sound amazing, and there are so many out there who love you...
Enjoy the beginning of your 6th decade of life!
50 is still young BTW  ;D
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#39: November 03, 2019, 06:01:09 PM
Hi jo jo
Happy birthday! Sounds like a great way to celebrate. I’ve read your thread and you should be so proud of yourself. You are a strong woman. You have nothing to feel bad about. You showed your husband trust, loyalty and love. You should be celebrating the wonderful person you are! Best for the next decade and a healthy self esteem!
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Me- 47 at BD
MLC husband -45 at BD
1 daughter - 2 1/2 years at BD
BD 1 - January 6, 2018 moves out
November 2018 - moves back in for 1 month then leaves saying relationship over, wants a divorce then flies over last minute to be with OW on holiday.
BD 2 - OW confirmed December 14, 2018 - meeting up with her for holiday
BD3 - engaged to OW December 21, 2018
BD 4 - tells me he is moving back to home country on January 27, 2019. Gives me 5 days notice. His flight date is February 1, 2019.

I just want the money and him out of my life!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#40: November 03, 2019, 09:49:20 PM
Happy Birthday!!!! You are wonderful and should be celebrated!!!!

Thank you for sharing your journey!!!
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#41: November 04, 2019, 02:36:17 AM
You really have made the most of it, and deservedly so, happy birthday, wishing you every happiness x
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Me 46
H 50
3 young adult kids
BD December 2013, left home August 2014, D June 2018
OW 17 years younger

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#42: November 26, 2019, 05:34:09 AM
Just when I think everything is going great...H fails to maintain boundaries with his office staff and it’s me who has to call his attention to it and be the bad guy enforcing the boundaries. 

So he is super busy doing a renovation on a new office space that we purchased this summer.  His business is moving to the new location in hopefully January or February.  Very exciting but he is spread very thin right now.  Thursday I was making dinner and it was 6:20pm and I hadn’t heard from him all day.  I called his cell and he answered, he was in his car WITH his front desk office manager!  Ummm totally awkward explaining took place with them, they had me on speaker.  She drove to work and her boyfriend came for lunch...she left car keys in his car....boyfriend is still at work so H was dropping her home. 

Innocent enough BUT the fact that he is opening up our relationship to someone feeling this familiar and comfortable that he’s their go to for a ride...not healthy boundaries!  His defense is he would never cheat again it was a horrible time in his life, he learned his lesson about selfish behavior and he’d never do that again. 

Another part of it that pissed me off is I had to call to find out.  Would he have told me if I hadn’t called?  He says yes he would have.  He claims it was just one of those things, she realized her keys weren’t there as they were closing up the office, it’s “kind of” on the way home.  I don’t  know....I have no sympathy for the situation...Uber home.  Call a friend.  Call your boyfriend.  She knows the history....and he is your boss, not some buddy from work.  So it doesn’t end there.

 I express my feelings and he apologized etc....  a few hours later we are getting ready for bed and he looks at his phone....she texted asking if he could pick her up for work bc her car is still at the office, or should she take an Uber?  And he is asking me???  Answer seems pretty clear.  Uber!  He tells her to grab an Uber but I am not over this. Major trigger to the past.  I am super anxious, feeling that panic attack feeling all day the next day.  We have a discussion and while he understands....he doesn’t really get it. He maintains that his MLC and affair was the absolute worst thing ever, he would never allow someone into his personal life like that again.  I just hate that this is part of my life now...the anxiety is real, all those ugly feelings come back! 

I am so glad we are working through all this but wow reconciliation is hard!   

(edited for ease of reading)
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 07:46:10 AM by Songanddance »
Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#43: November 26, 2019, 06:03:01 AM
Im so sorry and I would be majorly triggered too.
I hate to say it, but SHE sounds like she lacks boundaries. Why would she call him again for a ride when she could have just called an Uber without even involving him? She knew when he dropped her off that she would need a ride to work in the morning and she has a boyfriend so why couldn’t she have him drive her in? She seems way too comfortable with her boss. I’m not saying there’s anything nefarious going on but he definitely should be aware that his employee is way too familiar and crossing boundaries and he needs to shut that down completely 100%.

Thanks for your update. Reconnecting and reconciliation sure is not for the weak!!
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#44: November 26, 2019, 06:43:53 AM
Hi jojojo

Your feelings are totally valid. It’s great that you can communicate your anxiety to your husband. He has got to understand that your relationship has changed and he has to reassure you - constantly. Perhaps in a few years that trust will be rebuilt but for now he has to be transparent and understanding.

This girl is being too familiar. I would never text my boss asking for a lift to be picked up in the morning.

Are you still doing counselling together and on your own? Are you glad you took him back?
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Me- 47 at BD
MLC husband -45 at BD
1 daughter - 2 1/2 years at BD
BD 1 - January 6, 2018 moves out
November 2018 - moves back in for 1 month then leaves saying relationship over, wants a divorce then flies over last minute to be with OW on holiday.
BD 2 - OW confirmed December 14, 2018 - meeting up with her for holiday
BD3 - engaged to OW December 21, 2018
BD 4 - tells me he is moving back to home country on January 27, 2019. Gives me 5 days notice. His flight date is February 1, 2019.

I just want the money and him out of my life!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#45: November 26, 2019, 07:35:31 AM
Jojojo...That would indeed be a massive trigger..like in epic proportions. Are men really this dense ? No...really?  Honestly I do think my husband keeps his affair in a little "compartment " in his brain, totally separate from the rest of life. I have had things happen that were extremely triggering and it never even entered his tiny little brain. That is a fair junk of re-occurring injustice is it not ? I have never witnessed him being "trigerred". The second thing that jumps out at me is cell phones. He has one I am sure. He could have called and said " I will be a little late because Sally-Sue lost her keys and I could run her home...are you ok with that ?". That may have avoided the entire episode. I have frequently talked to my husband about "forthought"....what did you THINK would happen? . Seems he is totally VOID of forthought ...doesn't "think" that way . But he is starting to. I am sorry that happened...and I do believe we all have some degree of PTSD.

BUT...my husband has repeatedly said the same thing ...NEVER would he repeat the mistakes he made ...EVER. He tells me that if he saw signs of his "thinking" going to bad places , he would be speaking up really fast. He would recognize the "signs" of depression etc etc. I do believe him ( fingers crossed) ...and very likely your husband feels the same.

I am particularly impressed at your ability to "nip that sh&t in the bud". No zipping it ...make him accountable for a crappy choice and his lack of forthought . You are reacting exactly as I would.... UGH!
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#46: November 26, 2019, 07:50:26 AM
This is so much my situation at the moment.

H is doing exactly the same as your H but on a regular basis with his new assistant/office manager.  His is more return to basic replay without all the shenanigans and adultery and lies and admittedly I have not had an apology or promise to reconcile but I recognise everything you say and feel with you your frustration and anger and utter despair that this could continue for the rest of your reconciled life.

Like Barbie I am mighty impressed with your ability to confront it.  Unlike you and Barbie who have received never to do it again promises- I haven't and so cannot really call my H out on it.

So all power to you JoJo - heading in a good direction despite the triggers.
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#47: November 26, 2019, 07:59:18 AM
Quote
Are men really this dense ? No...really?   

Some can be...  We are not short of female examples, either.

Having said that, Jo, it was not a Nobel prize worthy move on his part to drive her (too personal), and he did not inform you of it, which was disrespectful to you.  I’m glad you talk about it with him.  He really has to learn to put you above everyone else’s wants and needs.   ‘I’m never going to have A’ has nothing to do with what happened.  it’s a form of gaslighting and inferring that you are in the wrong to bring it up because  his motives were squeaky clean.
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 08:01:06 AM by Acorn »
My first thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8164.150

My reconnecting thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10524.msg699615#msg699615

Live-in MLCer

Feb 2015: BD. 
Oct 2015: ILYBINILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#48: November 26, 2019, 01:27:33 PM
Jo,

I am far behind you in reconnection but I could have written what you just did.  My H seems to have an unresolved problem of being too personal with his employees.  He has no clue how his current actions, as innocent as he seems to say they are, continue to affect me. He is far from putting two and two together.  It is difficult because in many other areas he is moving forward and I see good changes.  He has always walked a fine line in his relationships with women employees and then he had an affair with one.  He wants to go back to this being ok, but it is far from ok with me anymore and he is having difficulty understanding this. 

Quote
‘I’m never going to have A’ has nothing to do with what happened.  it’s a form of gaslighting and inferring that you are in the wrong to bring it up because  his motives were squeaky clean.

Gaslighting 101-I'm seeing it clearly now. 

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Husband 55
Me 55
Kids 3 sons 29, 27, 25 1 daughter 20
BD #1 Spring 2016
BD #2 Winter 2017
married 33 years.  Together 35
H never moved out except 3 weeks after BD #1
OW 30 year single mom employee-He says EA only I don’t believe him.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#49: November 27, 2019, 01:04:18 PM
Hi Jojojo,

I'm reading up on your story... while I'm not confident enough to say my h and I are reconciling, we are starting to reconnect.  It's helpful to read about people that are further ahead in this whole thing than we are so thanks for sharing your story! 

For what it's worth, I would feel the same way if my h had taken home an employee and not mentioned it first.  I do believe it probably didn't even register on his radar as being inappropriate, but that doesn't make it okay especially now.  Before this all happened, I probably wouldn't have batted an eye at h taking someone home from work.  Now?  I would definitely be triggered even if it was the most innocent of situations.  I guess that's just the collateral damage of all we've been through. 
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#50: November 27, 2019, 05:22:58 PM
I really don't want to buy the men are "dense" stuff either. Maybe all you could do is explain it to him like this:

 How would you feel if our roles were reversed I had the affair and I was giving some guy a ride home and didn't say anything about doing that?  ???

Hard for them to have any empathy when they did not go through it. Your trust has been shattered and it's really hard for me to understand how he doesn't get that. That's what this is mostly about is trust and that's a really long road after what's gone on.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#51: February 02, 2020, 09:48:38 AM

Are you still doing counselling together and on your own? Are you glad you took him back?

Limbo-  yes still seeing our couples therapist monthly now. I have yet to find someone for myself that I like enough to continue but so far so good at managing my emotions on my own. 


I want to thank you all who are reading and encouraging me along this journey. 

Today is a milestone....3 years ago 2/2/2017 I found out about the affair!  Very proud of how far we have come but still feel devastated and angry that it ever happened.  I know I am emotionally better three years out than I was 2 years or a year out but man it freaking sucks! 

I don’t know if H knows what day it is or if he is ignoring it.  His M.O. is avoidance when situations are uncomfortable!  He hates conflict.  Today is the Super Bowl and he has invited a few friends over to watch the game.  I am feeling less than enthusiastic about this so he can do the prep and cleaning to host his crowd. 

My job is stressful.  Being promoted unexpectedly last year from a teaching assistant (para pro) to a teacher was exciting but it is stressful to have to plan and document my lessons plus grading!  Ugh!  Money is nice...my take home pay literally tripled...but I feel exhausted half the time.  I just need to organize myself! 

Well wish me luck making it through today!  I know when this date has passed I feel less stress.  It’s been between Christmas and February 2nd that I am on edge and emotionally fragile.  But less each year so that is good. I can’t wait til one day it’s February 2nd and it doesn’t even register in my brain....that probably won’t ever happen but I can dream!  Doesn’t help that it is Groundhog’s Day too so that is always a blurb on the news or in the schools bc I am an elementary school teacher.

Anyway thank you again for being there to read and encourage me! 

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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#52: February 02, 2020, 12:15:07 PM
Hello,

First of congratulations on becoming an elementary teacher. I taught for over 11 years myself. I taught fourth, first, second, and subbed every position from K-6 to special education.

Now as a superintendent, I am at the top of my game and realize I don't know that much!

Quote
Today is a milestone....3 years ago 2/2/2017 I found out about the affair!

That was a milestone for me as well. My new wife and I went to the courthouse to get married. Ours was in 2018. We had to get married to qualify for our home loan. Just about to celebrate two years in our home.

Quote
His M.O. is avoidance when situations are uncomfortable!  He hates conflict. 

In my opinion, this needs to be addressed. My ex and I were both hated conflict and the avoidance led to burying issues. By the time we were in counseling there was so much in the attic, it was impossible to clear it. You need to bring up issues and work on them as a couple. Conflict and the process of how you resolve the conflict will either bring you closer or further apart.

In my current situation, we have our disagreements and our fights, but we attack the issue- not each other. It allows the pressure to be let out without having to mask and pretend that we are just a happy , loving couple 24/7.

Quote
It’s been between Christmas and February 2nd that I am on edge and emotionally fragile.  But less each year so that is good. I can’t wait til one day it’s February 2nd and it doesn’t even register in my brain....that probably won’t ever happen but I can dream!

It will take time, but don't worry.....with communication and counseling, you can reach acceptance first and hopefully forgiveness later. It won't happen overnight, but with time, you will get there.

Enjoy the Superbowl and (((((Hugs)))))

Ready
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#53: February 03, 2020, 08:34:23 AM
I am so glad we are working through all this but wow reconciliation is hard! 

 I was reading your post and nodding my head all the way through it. We are 6 years post reconnecting-re-conciliating and there are still triggers. The pottery of our marriage has been glued back together but there are still cracks and chips.

 
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Married 18
BD April 2012
Left home Nov 2012
Home May 2016

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#54: February 04, 2020, 10:39:34 AM
Ok so yesterday I got a text in the morning that simply said "I love you :) "

Then in our family text thread he asked if we all wanted to go do something as a family....dinner and a movie....something....we decided to go to a local restaurant that had trivia night. 

When I got home from work he had just gotten home and he bought me a bouquet of flowers that he arranged in a vase and later at bedtime brought the vase up to our room! 

So I think he is trying to acknowledge that we just made it through February 2nd without saying it out loud....
I think tonight I will bring it up so we can discuss.  Hate that he is so weird about addressing anything that has even the slightest hint of conflict.
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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#55: February 04, 2020, 11:10:19 AM
Or
You could just both have a night of peace and enjoy the flowers.
Sometimes words are not everything. Sometimes words get in the way.
Just an idea.....
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#56: February 04, 2020, 11:29:20 AM
Quote
Hate that he is so weird about addressing anything that has even the slightest hint of conflict.
.

I also have a man like this. ANY remote possibility that there may be an issue or a conflict...and he is gone into his turtle-shell. It makes resolving any issues almost impossible . He is very aware of this and is "working" on it. I found it very interesting a remark from our therapist that I had NO IDEA about. When I have a "trigger" that I can not manage, I am loud, crying, attacking , swearing ( yep..I am) . When he is "triggered " he shuts-down, retreats, avoids. She made a comment that at this point he triggered more than I did. I would not have seen his shut down as a reaction to a  trigger. As a child there was lots of conflict in his life...trust me, he would never had spoken back to his father. He was silent, looked for an escape and tried to hide. In many many ways, this is his behavior as an adult . Apparrently this shut-down reaction is involuntary. That is very hard to believe .
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#57: February 04, 2020, 02:02:22 PM
I’m going to second Treasur here.  Unless you absolutely feel the need to talk about it, why not let the actions speak for themself?  We all talk about live languages and words are not for everyone.  Sometimes gifts and acts of service take the place of words.

I’m glad he recognized the date because it was on your mind.  I doubt mine knows the date of that fateful accidental text that blew up his, my, and his OW’s world.  It’s a date I will never forget though.  I’m trying to put less importance on the date.  It’s just a day.  I don’t want to celebrate or mourn it.  I want to move past it.
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H: 44
M: 45
M: 2003, T: 2001, Friends: 1996
No kids
2 dogs, 2 cats
BD1 (Summer 2014) "We aren't happy, I should move out, we should divorce"  Nothing happened.
Nov 2014 we moved across the country for H's job
BD2 (July 2015) "I'm not happy.  I want a divorce"  H moves out for 2 weeks.
BD3 (Nov 2017) H takes a new job 2 hours away and moves out.
BD4 (September 2018) OW2 discovered despite claims there has never been one.  She outs MOW1 and discloses that H filed for Divorce, but has not served me.  OW2 dumps him.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#58: February 04, 2020, 02:02:29 PM
I’m going to second Treasur here.  Unless you absolutely feel the need to talk about it, why not let the actions speak for themself?  We all talk about live languages and words are not for everyone.  Sometimes gifts and acts of service take the place of words.

I’m glad he recognized the date because it was on your mind.  I doubt mine knows the date of that fateful accidental text that blew up his, my, and his OW’s world.  It’s a date I will never forget though.  I’m trying to put less importance on the date.  It’s just a day.  I don’t want to celebrate or mourn it.  I want to move past it.
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H: 44
M: 45
M: 2003, T: 2001, Friends: 1996
No kids
2 dogs, 2 cats
BD1 (Summer 2014) "We aren't happy, I should move out, we should divorce"  Nothing happened.
Nov 2014 we moved across the country for H's job
BD2 (July 2015) "I'm not happy.  I want a divorce"  H moves out for 2 weeks.
BD3 (Nov 2017) H takes a new job 2 hours away and moves out.
BD4 (September 2018) OW2 discovered despite claims there has never been one.  She outs MOW1 and discloses that H filed for Divorce, but has not served me.  OW2 dumps him.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#59: February 05, 2020, 07:00:01 AM
I third what Treasur said, at least for now. 
If it still bothers you after a few days, then bring it up.

Jo I just wanted to say, and don't think men are exactly dense, but I do feel they can be when a woman is getting too personal or familiar.  I doubt he thought anything of giving her a ride, but the fact that she called him for a second ride should have been seen as too personal.  Ok, he did her a favor, but she now needs to know he has no intentions of giving her rides anywhere, anymore.  I bet she got the message loud and clear.  He is a married man, call an Uber!

I hope things keep getting better and better for you two and I hope you had an enjoyable evening.

Hugs
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#60: February 06, 2020, 12:11:46 PM
Thank you all for your input.   :)
I appreciate being called out on being so pushy with how I want things done when I obviously know that is NOT his way of doing things.  I left it all alone and didn't bring up what I wanted him to do.  I just appreciated the fact that he did try on his terms to acknowledge and let me know I am loved and he is wanting to be here with his family.  That is what the family dinner was all about.  Trying to do something with ALL of us to connect because of our major disconnect that led to such a mess! 

Anyway thank you very much for setting me straight....outside point of view is always good to have!
 
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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#61: February 18, 2020, 10:18:55 AM
Wake me up when this nightmare ends!  It is like the collateral damage from his stupid choices keeps popping up!  Usually it is triggers for me and my insecurities but every once in awhile I see it in our older kids....now it’s popping up with our youngest!  He was 12 when the damage was done. And I admit I was unprepared to handle the reality of my husband cheating on me....I was paralyzed and emotionally blindsided.  I lost it and didn’t hide anything from anyone.  I couldn’t. I just couldn’t pretend so all the ugly was out there for all to see.  Here we are 3 years later and the damage from all the kids saw and heard is coming out.  Our youngest is 15 and recently was acting out....he just lost it, emotional mess!  So now we have him in therapy with plans for him to go solo for a few weeks but then to go with us present so he feels supported enough to say his peace.  I just feel angry and upset with both H and myself.  First to the selfish a$$ side of my H that just had to cheat with that manipulative skank....and with myself for not being stronger, smarter, etc...  ugh!  I just hate that there is even more suffering and fallout.  Anyway just sharing and getting it out.  One of these days I hope this will all be a memory of how it used to be rather than horrible pain and disgust for such a horrific experience in my life! 
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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#62: February 19, 2020, 03:47:13 AM
I can relate to your Kid stuff as well in certain ways. My S12(almost 13) is having some issues with D9 that seem to be that he is really still  trying to advocate or be my Proxy but, since he can't do it with mom (xW), D9 is catching the brunt of it. xW is convinced that the whole issue stems from S12 not being around at the hospital when D9 was born and, the person that was supposed to be staying with S12 (then S4 - TGF1 in fact) had actually put him to bed and then gone out partying. S12 woke up and found no one in the apartment until later so xW blames all of S12's anger at D9 on that episode rather than recognize some of her own responsibility for her actions. My personal take on it is that S12, as I said, somehow thinks that he needs to be angry for me because of xW's decision (this has been backed up by a couple of comments that S12 has made re: xW)  to leave the marriage but since he can't be angry at mom, he takes it out on D9.

I'm trying to get him to see someone as well and at least have a neutral place to talk but also to let him know that what happened between xW and me is between xW and me. I am perfectly capable of dealing with the issues and, in fact, I am rebuilding my own life into something even better. Meanwhile, xW is continuing to use D9 as an emotional crutch so the poor kid is catching it from both sides.

So, yeah, there is a bit of anger directed at xW, at myself, and the desire to relieve both kids of a burden that it is NOT their job to carry....
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#63: February 19, 2020, 06:52:34 PM
I remember when I 1st started to attend marriage counselling after my husbands return. She ( the counsellor) encouraged me NOT to make any decisions regarding my marriage ( I really felt I would not recover ) for atleast 6 months.  She also stated that whatever I choose to do in the present will have an impact and an effect on 3 generations to come. HUH?   So that felt like pressure to me ( who wants to screw up generations?) and I remember spitting out a question.."so, how many generations are affected by a lying, cheating, selfish, immature husband? ". Not sure what her response was .

I understand you completely. How long will we pick up big huge pieces of a mess we never created? How long will people hurt as a result ? . I do not know but I imagine it will take a long long time. I see the damage in my daughters especially in my youngest who was living at home thru the entire nightmare. I believe she has some form of PTSD .She tells me she has no plan whatsoever to ever get married ...too "risky". I see the damage in my 3rd daughter . She started counselling on her own because she was so enraged at her father … she could not even look at him. She never told me she was attending counselling...one of my other girls told me. They watch their husbands , afterall if their "perfect pedestal " dad could have a MLC and an affair...anybody can. I have a middle daughter who refuses to talk about any of it and has left any conversation that has ever come up about it. She has NEVER talked to me about any of it. There are going to be pieces to pick up for a very long time and in many ways I think it could be forever.  My husband is aware of these issues and whenever I can , I direct my girls to him to be accountable to them. Even that has failed in ways I did not forsee.  We can only do our best ..that's all we have. I am sorry JoJo. Its like the pain that never ends . You are not alone in that struggle.
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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#64: February 21, 2020, 06:58:22 AM
 So a question for barbie doll and jo jo....

Are you glad you got back with your mlcer if the pain still continues? You both had the choice to move on and end the marriage with divorce.

If I’m to stand I would want the pain to end at some point. Has it been worth it for you both?


Regards limbo
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Me- 47 at BD
MLC husband -45 at BD
1 daughter - 2 1/2 years at BD
BD 1 - January 6, 2018 moves out
November 2018 - moves back in for 1 month then leaves saying relationship over, wants a divorce then flies over last minute to be with OW on holiday.
BD 2 - OW confirmed December 14, 2018 - meeting up with her for holiday
BD3 - engaged to OW December 21, 2018
BD 4 - tells me he is moving back to home country on January 27, 2019. Gives me 5 days notice. His flight date is February 1, 2019.

I just want the money and him out of my life!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#65: February 21, 2020, 09:31:12 AM
Quote
So a question for barbie doll and jo jo....

Are you glad you got back with your mlcer if the pain still continues? You both had the choice to move on and end the marriage with divorce.

If I’m to stand I would want the pain to end at some point. Has it been worth it for you both?

.

Sorry for the tiny hijack Jojo, but I will respond to Limbo. Its a hard question for me and I have been asked this before . I need to be honest about my response ...otherwise what could be the point.
One answer that I am very aware of is the fact that you need to recover from an intimate betrayal NO MATTER if you reconcile or not. There is no escaping the "pain", the struggles of our children, the brokenness of our "self" and simply many other parts. Reconciliation or divorce ..neither path eliminates emotional pain or struggle. I know that had I chosen divorce , I would still have to walk the healing journey of betrayal and a new challenge of painful consequences. There would be all the painful consequences that go with divorce...and that is significant to say the least. 
Once a betrayal takes place ( in my opinion) NOTHING easy will follow. There is no easy path.
I have had profound moments of regret that I attempted to reconcile. I lived for months ( maybe more) having decided that I was looking for a way to leave ...and not continue to reconcile. Those times were excruciating as I faced that I believed I was not going to be able to forgive and move forward with him. My life with him was over and I just wanted him to move out and let me go my own way. He refused to leave ..told me he was never ever going to leave me again. If not for his perserverance , we would without doubt be divorced.
I have always believed ( and still do ) that a MLC'er that returns to the marriage needs to be 1000 % committed to the marriage , committed to full accountability and able to withstand whatever is thrown at him. He needs to want the marriage far more than the LBS and it has to show a million times over and in a million ways . It was thru his ability to stand strong, receive that pain and rage, do the work, get to counselling, show the changes , match his actions to his words and show genuine and true remorse ….that I slowly started to be convinced that maybe ...just maybe … I "might" make it thru this .
Had he faltered in any of those things, I would have been gone . I still have moments that hurt deeply ...and I imagine that had I chosen divorce, I would not be feeling this pain. But that is not the truth either . I would still be deeply hurt , just in a different way.
Divorce is excruciatingly painfull as well and comes with years of new issues.  So, I am sure I have not answered your question well . I do have times I wish I had NOT reconciled but they are getting less and less . Complicated. I am nothing if not honest.
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« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 01:21:55 AM by Songanddance »
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#66: February 21, 2020, 09:35:23 AM
Wow, thank you Barbie for sharing that. Powerful. Very insightful.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#67: February 21, 2020, 10:05:16 AM
That seems like a very honest response, Barbie.
And one worth reading for all of us perhaps.
I don't know what the % split is but you are quite right that whatever path we take as an LBS, there is a shedload of healing which is the same regardless. Divorce, or indeed Standing or reconnection, might come up with costs/benefits but it doesn't change that. I suppose rationally (even if they try to outrun it lol) the same is true for the MLC spouse; they still have to deal with what they did and why, whether they return to their family or not.

Also occurred to me that your h actually was a different kind of strong gatekeeper, albeit a flawed one, when you were (understandably) not so sure. I'm not sure I ever remember you saying that in quite this way before.
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 10:07:24 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#68: February 22, 2020, 08:02:17 AM
So a question for barbie doll and jo jo....

Are you glad you got back with your mlcer if the pain still continues? You both had the choice to move on and end the marriage with divorce.

If I’m to stand I would want the pain to end at some point. Has it been worth it for you both?


Regards limbo

My answer to this question is yes...I am glad!  I know it might have been easier to divorce and move on but I just couldn’t do it.  Once H showed me how sorry he was, he committed to working on us and working on himself, I had to extend grace and forgiveness to him.  The pain is not gone, our family is still healing but things are getting better. I have faith that one day this will just be a past life lesson.  We won’t forget but we will have forgiven and moved past it. 
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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#69: February 22, 2020, 08:55:48 AM
Barbie doll and jo jo

Thank you for your honest and thoughtful answers. Both of you had mlcers that really wanted to come back. There was no half heartedness. You had to feel that they were remorseful and regretted what they had done and in fact they did (and do) have to prove themselves.  They had to work hard to earn your trust while you had to deal with your own set of issues to trust again.

I enjoy getting different perspectives and experiences from those who have travelled before me - so, thank you.

Limbo


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Me- 47 at BD
MLC husband -45 at BD
1 daughter - 2 1/2 years at BD
BD 1 - January 6, 2018 moves out
November 2018 - moves back in for 1 month then leaves saying relationship over, wants a divorce then flies over last minute to be with OW on holiday.
BD 2 - OW confirmed December 14, 2018 - meeting up with her for holiday
BD3 - engaged to OW December 21, 2018
BD 4 - tells me he is moving back to home country on January 27, 2019. Gives me 5 days notice. His flight date is February 1, 2019.

I just want the money and him out of my life!

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#70: March 03, 2020, 12:09:49 PM
This weekend we had a 2 1/2 hour WHOLE FAMILY therapy session.  This was in response to my S15's breakdown the other weekend.  He went and had individual sessions with our therapist and the idea was we would all came together for a family session so S15 could address his issues with everyone.  So there we are, all six of us and the therapist in the office.  Wow.....I am glad I didn't cheat on H....bc the true feelings of our children would have crushed me.  It was a great session.  They expressed their anger, betrayal, and disappointment.  He was able to apologize to them.  I was able to apologize for the fact that after finding out I was a shell of mother to them for quite sometime.  We all talked, they all agreed that as horrible as this situation was, we are closer and stronger as a family because of it.  I think it was good for everyone.  Still lots of healing to do but really we are on our way.  H and I had our own therapy session scheduled for two weeks from now and the kids all expressed interest in doing another whole family session. So in two weeks we will all  go back.  Talk about all the feelings and how to make things better.  This is just so exhausting but super important.  Really even if there is not affair to get over, sitting down and talking and being guided by a professional is amazing to help with family communication.  I will tell you.....I miss my easy life with a 5, 6, 9 and 11 year old.....this 15, 16, 19 and 21 year old parenting is a new ball game!  And add H's affair and us almost getting divorced into that mix!  Wow!  So many feelings!  But the good thing, we are on the right track. We aren't perfect.....but we are doing pretty good.  Just wanted to share!
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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#71: May 25, 2020, 09:10:24 AM
Just checking in....looking to get some feelings out of my head. 
So still doing monthly family therapy sessions.  Those are going well....I think very positive for the family to be able to share in a safe space with our therapist there to guide us.  No major breakthroughs or any life changing moments but just healthy communication.  That’s hard with the kids at 15, 17, 19 and 21...but they are willingly no complaints going to sessions!  Makes me happy!

Quarantine has been ok...got a few home projects done (painting the deck, hiring someone to clean the gutters and pressure wash the house) now we have moved to new landscaping out front of the house.  Hopefully that project gets started and finished soon, we are hiring someone bc it’s back breaking work...maybe a week or two and it will look nice out there! 

With Coronavirus H had to close his office for a month.  He did get some unemployment and he owns his own business so he did qualify for government relief to keep the business’s bills paid.   Lately he has pushed more for me to be involved with his office.  He has had me go along with him to the office while he is working on a case, having me do some of the accounting entries in QuickBooks.  I have seen the statements for the office American Express and it’s nice knowing that it is all on the up and up as real business expenses.  I saw the statements back during divorce proceedings...OW was having a field day with that card every month! 

Now to take some time to work on me...signed up for this free class through Yale.  https://www.coursera.org/learn/the-science-of-well-being
A few neighbors are doing it as well so we can discuss the lectures and our thoughts.  I have issues with follow through so I need to complete this, no excuses! 

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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#72: May 25, 2020, 09:32:18 AM
I am happy to read things are going along as smoothly as possible. You have a lot of kids with things to "say" and I think you are so blessed that they will all participate !  How good is that ?  This virus and lockdowns just add to so many situations that are already hard ..another layer of uncertainty .  You sound like you are in charge of your ship and I like that .  Not saying there are not hard times, I am sure there is, but you sound calm .

I do thank you for the link. I think you read my mind and my own struggles . I am also going to do it . I appreciate you sharing .
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#73: May 25, 2020, 10:22:31 AM
Thanks for the update, Jojo. I'm going to check out the course you've suggested. Hope things carry on going well at home.
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#74: June 26, 2020, 02:58:30 PM
So I started listening to a podcast "Healing Broken Trust" with Brad and Morgan Robinson.  It has really been so helpful.  So many things I already knew but I feel like HEARING it, rather than reading it, really helps me digest it and maybe even BELIEVE IT.  Hearing another human being tell me that H's affair had less to do with me and more to do with him....brought me to tears!  Hearing him describe typical personality types that 100% fit both me and my H and how we handled conflict (or didn't handle conflict) really made SO MUCH SENSE.  My H was seriously "ripe for the picking" when it came to the OW.   And Brad really seems to be well versed and know his stuff.  His wife kind of asks him questions and tries to understand what he is saying, sort of clarifying what he is telling his audience.  I don't know, I just really found this to be a source of healing for me.

There is a website too, www.healingbrokentrust.com but that seems so be lots of stuff for sale.  The podcast was just on my iPhone podcasts and didn't cost anything. 

I just found this to be a good resource and wanted to share if anyone is reading my story.  I am struggling with getting stuck in this recovery.  I know we are moving forward, I know we have come a LONG way....but I still have those moments that I am in tears and obsess about HOW DID THIS HAPPEN, I have these moments of anger, I have these moments of self hatred.  Little by little I am healing though....so far it has been a 3 year process since we decided to stay together and work through it all. 



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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

b
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Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#75: June 26, 2020, 05:43:58 PM
Quote
  I am struggling with getting stuck in this recovery.  I know we are moving forward, I know we have come a LONG way....but I still have those moments that I am in tears and obsess about HOW DID THIS HAPPEN, I have these moments of anger, I have these moments of self hatred.  Little by little I am healing though....so far it has been a 3 year process since we decided to stay together and work through it all. 
.

I understand. I feel "stuck" as well . There are times I am content and it is going to be OK. Other times, I cannot believe how much hurt is still inside of me. I still feel sensations of "shock and disbelief" , I really do . I find it interesting that you experience "self-hatred" . I have to say that I also have felt times of intense self hatred. Any idea why??   I just cannot figure out why I would ever feel self hatred.  I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Re: Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#76: June 27, 2020, 02:54:53 AM
Jojo, thanks for sharing the podcast. I am going to listen to it, I need reassurance about the affair not being about me, too.
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#77: June 27, 2020, 10:10:50 AM
I find it interesting that you experience "self-hatred" . I have to say that I also have felt times of intense self hatred. Any idea why??   I just cannot figure out why I would ever feel self hatred.  I'd love to hear your thoughts.

So I think my feelings of self hatred stem from the gas lighting that H did to convince me the problem was ME....the disconnect was me and I needed to fix myself.  He had nothing wrong with him....he was fine.  He now says looking back he didn’t want to admit that he was closed off and he had issues, it was easier to blame me.  He says he really thought if I fixed myself then things would be better.  But he’s realized we BOTH had issues to face and he never should have focused on my faults. 

Another thing I get mad at myself is the stupidity.  OW was a blatant skank.  Stereotypical!  The heels 👠, bleach blonde, self promoter, that vocal fry voice, tight clothes....so many people I know who went to his office as a patient commented to me about “that front desk girl” with the “watch your husband around her” comments.  I guess I just trusted H bc he’s not a “ladies’ man” but I mean honestly she worked there for 10 years...you’d think I would have listened to someone!  I read my stuff here and over and over as I described my situation  people told me “there is an OW” and I brushed it off.  Like I was knew better....he’d never do that TO ME! First off I am an awesome wife, people love me, I think I am pretty cute, and I kept him happy in bed.   Ummm it still happened so yeah Jojo you aren’t THAT special! 

But I need to stop that, putting myself down.  We went to the beach with H’s family the first week of June.  I was sitting with my sister in law and she was asking how I feel.  I told her how I am trying to focus on the positive and where H and are going rather than the past.  I said honestly on Mother’s Day I realized after our family get together that it was the first time I can recall not standing among our family thinking “here I am...the loser that got cheated on”.  My sister in law immediately said she had no idea I had ever thought that way....and she assured me all she ever thought was “there’s my brother, the loser who cheated on his wife”!  Eye opening to hear that perspective!  Now obviously she’s moved forward and applauds the act of humbling himself and work her brother has done to fix his mistakes but she said it was never that I was the loser....
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« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 05:17:26 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

b
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Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#78: June 27, 2020, 11:26:55 AM
Word for word , I have experienced all that you mention. I have felt very uncomfortable at times around family or at gatherings ( even around my own daughters) because I too am the " looser that was cheated on".  Isn't that awful??   Nothing in this world should make me feel like that ..nothing. And yet it has happened many times.  Another unexpected emotional response to being cheated on. I have told my therapist and my husband that I have extreme feelings of no longer "belonging or fitting in".  I would isolate from people all together if I stop trying...mostly want to be alone. People ( LBS) really and truly have no idea the emotions they have to face if/when they attempt to reconcile. Never did I imagine I would feel self-hatred, a total and complete loss of self esteem, feelings of not belonging anymore, constant need to isolate, feeling "ugly",  over-reacting to "dirty jokes" or comments made by friends in fun, feeling like everyone has "secrets" and I am left out ...I could go on. I never realized how difficult , how extreme I can react, how painful this is or for how long.

I am not sure where/why I feel surges of self-hatred. I have even said it out loud ( to my husband) and just shocked myself when that came out of my mouth in a moment of fury.  Maybe it is a result of gaslighting and the feelings of "stupid" or humiliation...I am not sure . I will talk with my therapist specifically about this and I will let you know what she thinks.  Sometimes I am angry at myself for chatting with OW and family members while they knew my husband was having an affair and I did not . However, how could I EVER EVER had known that???  I likely would have had doubts my husband would ever have touched this OW-cow...even IF someone told me . She has a very long history of nasty...he is one of a long line of stupid men. 

Quote
My sister in law immediately said she had no idea I had ever thought that way....and she assured me all she ever thought was “there’s my brother, the loser who cheated on his wife”!  Eye opening to hear that perspective!  Now obviously she’s moved forward and applauds the act of humbling himself and work her brother has done to fix his mistakes but she said it was never that I was the loser....

I do believe we are hard on our selves …and yet it is very hard to stop. I have felt very judged as the "poor little wife that kept the cheater because  she could not make it on her own".  That is far from the truth, but only I know that. Your sister-in-law likely speaks the truth . 
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

J
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Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#79: September 13, 2020, 02:59:19 PM
It’s been awhile since I have been here!  Just a quick check in to say we just celebrated 24 years of marriage.  It was a very nice weekend although I have been a crazy mess with lesson planning since school is back in session but virtually.  Had to throw my normal lessons out the window...I teach elementary school computer lab and they come in to my class and we all have the same computers, software, printers etc...  Now they are at home and some are on laptops, some iPads, some desktops....it’s been a crazy challenge!  Our anniversary weekend I seriously was ready to quit my job bc this is so difficult!  But I made it through.  H has been super supportive and very kind.  He is working super hard at building his business with goals of us having a nice life in retirement.  That’s been reassuring and good to hear him planning for our future.  I started walking the dogs 3 to 4 miles regularly since the vet said our one pup needed to drop a pound!  Happy to announce he went from 18 lbs to 16.8!  Woot woot!  And I have gotten myself up to the upper end of healthy weight for my height and I have lost about 6 lbs with the dog walking!  So that is good! 
We are still in therapy and have monthly family sessions.  H has heard about his “selfish” side from everyone in the family in one way or another and they have all said how they see him not making mom or family a priority.  He has taken it to heart and really has worked on having a better connection and not tuning all of us out.  So that has been good!
Not sure what else there is to share....things are progressing nicely in our little corner of the world!  Wishing everyone here the same!  I know how bad things can feel!  I try to appreciate all the good I have going!
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Me 50
H 50
Married Aug 1996
4 kiddos- S21, D19, S17, S15
July 2014 BD "thinking of divorce, let's go to therapy"
Aug 2014 to Fall 2016 weekly therapy
January 2017 BD he says he's seeing a lawyer about divorce
February 2017 OW confirmed but H doesn't know I know yet...affair began July 2014, when he decided things were bad
February 2017 I filed for divorce
March 2017 H FINALLY  admitted OW and said it was over
May 2017 H moved out
June 2017 New therapist who mentioned reconciliation as an option and we began "dating"
June 2017 dropped divorce case/H fired OW/we began serious reconciliation
May 2018 lease up on apartment and H is back home full time
Currently still seeing therapist once a month, still working through the issues we had with communication that led up to our disconnect!

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Who ever thought I would be here? Part 3
#80: September 13, 2020, 04:39:25 PM
JoJoJo

Thank you for your update. I am always so grateful when members come back to post their stories of reconciliation. Happy anniversary! Wishing you and your husband a strong and healthy marriage in the years to come.

Also, good luck with your students. It is a really hard time for teachers and all school personnel. Stay safe.

Please continue to drop by now and then with your updates. They are really appreciated! Especially hearing how your husband has taken what he did to heart.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

 

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