Author Topic: My Story The pink fridge moment continued!  (Read 2155 times)

Online KeepItTogether

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My Story Re: The pink fridge moment continued!
« Reply #110 on: April 15, 2019, 12:22:10 PM »
Stay on the Milly side of the street, it's much nicer  :)

I quite agree.  :D

My 2 cents on this cake-eating thing FWIW. I have heard Acorn say this over and over. And others too of course. But, the reality is, NOTHING we do will help the MLCer on his/her journey. And until they reach that elusive emotional maturation, they will remain in crisis. Nothing is lost by being civil/nice to them. But by no means should cake eating be looked at as a paving the way tactic. (I don't believe so anyway, but what do I know?) And allowing for some family time, especially when one has small children is necessary. But I do not see this as cake eating at all b/c we do it for the kids. They absolutely must come first.

Anyway, Milly, glad to hear H re-paid that cc debt.
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Anjae

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Re: The pink fridge moment continued!
« Reply #111 on: April 15, 2019, 12:35:03 PM »
Milly fwiw...don't let our debates kick off the monkeys in your brain.
By all means watch the show if it pops up and costs nothing. Enjoy the free lawn work. Even have a little hope that your h might start to be a slightly better father. Be grateful for the money that got repaid perhaps surprising you and his admission that he is the main cause of your eldest daughter's disconnection.

Second Treasur, Milly.


Mort, they aren't called clingers for nothing.  ::) I've always said that Mr is a vanisher because I turned him into one, otherwise he would still be clinging like there was no tomorrow.

Would he be out of MLC? I don't know. The MLC lifestyle he choose is very addictive. If he had keep clinging he would probably still be DJing, clubbing and clinging. That was his big plan in early 2008, we would divorce, I would become his girlfriend and he would carry on with his MLC lifestyle including anyone new he may want to date.  ::) He got a no.

Mr Bursty, Kikki's husband, was another super clinger. He had OW and lived with OW, but he would bring food to Kikki and the boys, etc. If I am not mistaken he went so far as leave food on the doorstep. We laughed a lot with Mr Bursty adventures back in the day. At a point, Kikki needed to sort several things - there were legal issues and a property that needed to be solved - and Mr J Bursty was a bit cut off. Not sure what is the current situation.

The articles are clear, if the MLCer is cut off, the MLCer will grab to OW/OM/MLC friends/lifestyle like there is no tomorrow. They will feel isolated, etc. The articles are also clear a LBS has to do what a LBS as to do. Real vanishers are different, they vanish from the start.

Of course, abusive MLCers are another matter so are those who marry OW/OM since they become someone else's spouse. Does that mean a MLCer who marries OW/OM will not return? It does not. DGU had a friend whose wife married OM. DGU's friend stayed away, but it his MLCer would contact he would be light, friedly and civil. She divorced OM and after a while remarried DGU's friend. Last I heard they were very happy.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Re: The pink fridge moment continued!
« Reply #112 on: April 15, 2019, 03:01:41 PM »
Ooh, you guys are good. I'm reading along with great interest and ended with a big laugh at Treasur's post.

Anjae, I'm glad you think there is no harm in me noticing things. I do value your opinion, and very nice to hear you think I'm not doing anything wrong. Thank you!

Maleficent and Puzzled, yes, it's not our original home so basically my garden has absolutely nothing to do with H. In reality, what is an ex who cheated and dumped his wife doing mowing her lawn? Wish I could do that little emoji with the eyes turned up to one side.

Oneday, I find what you're pointing out about the MLCer losing interest in things, important. It's funny how it takes someone else pointing things out to us. You know, I think that a spouse becoming bored with his family and what used to be fun for him, should be a big MLC clue.

Treasur, absolutely, right on, everything you listed. As Anjae said, this was a touch and go that's all. But fascinating when it happens out of the blue by a semi-vanisher.

Kit, I guess that I now would have a more precise idea of what I consider cake eating. Kissing, hugging, sex with the MLCer whilst he's with OP is cake eating to me. Spending time in the house with me or the kids, feeling comfortable coming around the home is not necessarily cake eating.. It's more like having a drug addict loved one who is not in their right mind but I wouldn't say they couldn't come in.

Now Morte, to answer your question. But first a big caveat: do not do this at home! What I mean is, what I'm going to say about my personal view about cake eating in my situation is just my opinion.

So the first year after BD, I was lurking on the forum but not posting so there was a lot happening with my H that I have never posted about. He was a typical boomerang. He would come by the house, we'd have heavy R talks that lasted hours. We spoke on the phone for hours.

He would come to the house several times a week, sit and watch sports in our living room. Play ping pong with S who was 10 at the time. He would stay through dinner, take a plate to the living room and eat alone. He would fall asleep on the couch but never stayed the night. He would make sure to leave at some point. He would help bring the shopping upstairs, help in my winery, he asked my advice on what he should do about his job which he said he hated.

We had many loud fights as well, which always ended with me screaming about OW and how could he and did she sound like me and the poor kids and he was just like his father......Then we would message or phone about something silly and get talking again and then he'd come by again. If he went out with S for a pizza, he would bring one back for me. Once he went to the market with S and came back with tons of flowers for me. He still called me his wife to people, called our house home, said first we'd get divorced then we could talk about getting back together again.

Anyway, I was getting hurt every time I thought he was getting closer and then he would go off to OW. I was also reading on HS and HB that I must not allow cake eating, that I had to let the MLC go off and really live this new life so that he could see what that would be really like.

I had learned that I needed to have a strong boundary about cake eating. So one time he'd been at my house all day until midnight and had said he'd come back in the morning but then he didn't and sent S a message that he was going to be away for a couple of days and OW sent a message from his phone to make sure I knew H was with her. So the next time he came to the house I said, 'I don't think it's right that you come into the house and enjoy the things you like about family life but then you go and have your real fun elsewhere. That's not fair to me. ' He nodded and that was the last time he came into the house.

Soon after, our conversations ended. H got much closer to OW and moved her to our town. H stopped coming around the house because it was cold and what was he going to do with S outside in the winter? By not coming in any more, talking about anything became awkward. Then I was blocked on his phone. He stopped knowing what was happening with the kids. I feel that I helped OW alienate him from his family.

When I told H that he was not to come into the house any more he looked brow beaten. Maybe it's right that he should feel that way, but my H is not a fighter. He's used to rejection and he just takes it. I think my cutting him off made it real for him. I think it might have propelled him deeper into his new life, in that he might have felt that he'd made his bed now and needed to make the most of making it work.

To make it work with the kind of OW he has, he had to do it her way, which also meant going against me and D21 legally. I think he tried really hard to make it work with OW. Maybe he's still trying, what do I know? The harder he tried to make it work with OW, the more damage he was causing me and the kids, making it impossible for him to come back.

Anyway, I think my boundary might have been too tough for my H. I think it's important to keep up communication. It was important for him to be reminded of those cosy family things he still liked even after BD. I think that if we're standing, it's good for them to get glimpses into our new lives.

I did not have a clinger, and with those I think it might be important to have some kind of boundary. The clingers will tell the LBS they love them, then go back to the OW living at the end of the road. That is really hard. There are LBS who reconciled and said they wished they'd cut contact sooner, that they might have prolonged their H's crisis. Who knows. But at least their H still had good thoughts of their wives, so that when they fought with the OW, or reached their rock bottom, they knew where they wanted to be and that they could go there. Mama Bear comes to mind.

What I realize now (for me) is that boundaries are about behaviour directly to me or the kids, that's all. In fact, HB, says you cannot have boundaries about the affair or the D. These two things need to run their course.

When I had a private counseling session with RCR, she said I needed to let H know that I was standing. I didn't feel comfortable doing so because I feared his rejection. I was like that the last few years before BD, too. Scared to tell H I loved him because he was withdrawing from us and I was scared to hear he didn't want me any more. I think there's nothing wrong with telling a spouse we love them as long as we are also moving forward on our own journey at the same time.

If I could have a do-over, I would err on the side of cake eating. My H has been a semi vanisher for the last 2.5 years. If we didn't have children, I believe he would have been a complete vanisher.

Still, I believe that NC is important when the LBS really wants to move on or when the MLCer is abusive. If the LBS feels worse by being in contact with her MLCer, then she needs to cut that contact because it does help once we get through the two weeks of withdrawal. However, the LBS should know that cutting contact might push her H further away so if this is not what she wants, she should avoid NC.

My H has always been the kind of person to give up when the problem got big instead of working to resolve it. He's the kind that will drive right into the crash instead of swerving. My H will bury his head in the sand rather than deal with a problem. When he's criticized, he'll drop that person rather than look at himself and see if anything that person said might be true.

But it's not as simple as keeping contact. This is just one aspect that can help. The MLCer has to go through his crisis anyway. A bit like us having to go through our pain to get stronger and be better versions of ourselves.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Anjae

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Re: The pink fridge moment continued!
« Reply #113 on: April 15, 2019, 03:52:55 PM »
If it was wrong for us to point that we notice things, we would't know much about MLC/MLC behaviour and progress.  :)

You had a clinger, Milly. A clinger is a MLCer who is always, or almost always, around and in contact. What do you call a MLCer who still bought food and flowers and who stayed in your house until midnight?

Mr J didn't say he loved me and go back to OW1 who lived down the road. He never said he loved me since a bit before BD (but for once after OW1 was made public) and OW1 lived some 200km from where we lived. Mr J and OW1 never lived together.

We can have boundaries about the affair, as in, no, you are not allowed to come home while there is OW/OM or I do not want OW/OM to come to by house. We cannot decide the affair will have to end and to end now or can only last X. Same for divorce, it is not possible to prevent a person to divorce if they want to.

It was far, far worst for me to have contact with king of clingers Mr J. No peace, no calm, just insane mood swings, not to mention the abuse. Also, I am not the sort of person who lets someone who has left and leads a life with someone else keep knowing about my life. Mr J lost the right to had anything to do with my life the day he left. He was told as much. Didn't stop him from trying.  ::)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Anon

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Re: The pink fridge moment continued!
« Reply #114 on: April 15, 2019, 04:08:22 PM »
I love reading your posts Milly.   Your situation parallels mine so closely it's weird.   Would you mind if I just copied your stuff and posted it on my thread??   haha... don't answer that.   :P

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: The pink fridge moment continued!
« Reply #115 on: April 15, 2019, 04:24:03 PM »
My 2 cents on this cake-eating thing FWIW. I have heard Acorn say this over and over. And others too of course. But, the reality is, NOTHING we do will help the MLCer on his/her journey. And until they reach that elusive emotional maturation, they will remain in crisis. Nothing is lost by being civil/nice to them. But by no means should cake eating be looked at as a paving the way tactic. (I don't believe so anyway, but what do I know?) And allowing for some family time, especially when one has small children is necessary. But I do not see this as cake eating at all b/c we do it for the kids. They absolutely must come first.

I guess part of it ''what is defined as cake eating'' is so subjective between individuals. I agree nothing we do will help the MLCer come out of it, but I think there is a lot we can do to make it worse/delay it/ make it harder to return.



Milly thanks so much for really taking the time to explain and answer my question. I really appreciate it.  :-*

Going to just make notes in your quote.

I guess that I now would have a more precise idea of what I consider cake eating. Kissing, hugging, sex with the MLCer whilst he's with OP is cake eating to me. Spending time in the house with me or the kids, feeling comfortable coming around the home is not necessarily cake eating.. It's more like having a drug addict loved one who is not in their right mind but I wouldn't say they couldn't come in. -Great definition of it I think.

I had learned that I needed to have a strong boundary about cake eating. So one time he'd been at my house all day until midnight and had said he'd come back in the morning but then he didn't and sent S a message that he was going to be away for a couple of days and OW sent a message from his phone to make sure I knew H was with her. So the next time he came to the house I said, 'I don't think it's right that you come into the house and enjoy the things you like about family life but then you go and have your real fun elsewhere. That's not fair to me. ' He nodded and that was the last time he came into the house. -Actually I think I probably would have done the same thing to be honest. Having Beast around is okay...in small doses. To midnight every day would have driven me nuts to.  :o


When I told H that he was not to come into the house any more he looked brow beaten. Maybe it's right that he should feel that way, but my H is not a fighter. He's used to rejection and he just takes it. I think my cutting him off made it real for him. I think it might have propelled him deeper into his new life, in that he might have felt that he'd made his bed now and needed to make the most of making it work. -This sounds similar to what I would expect to happen.

Anyway, I think my boundary might have been too tough for my H. I think it's important to keep up communication. It was important for him to be reminded of those cosy family things he still liked even after BD. I think that if we're standing, it's good for them to get glimpses into our new lives. -I think it is extremely important that you are able to identify this, and that it will help you in the future...if you wish to use it. :)

There are LBS who reconciled and said they wished they'd cut contact sooner, that they might have prolonged their H's crisis. -I do wonder if this is because they didn't cut contact, or because they didn't continue with mirror work and growth and movement. I think some people with clingers get stuck..as in standing still...because they are so emotionally dishevelled with the back and forth they can't focus on their own growth. Probably irrelevant as we can't ultimately change an MLCer but interesting none the less.

But at least their H still had good thoughts of their wives, so that when they fought with the OW, or reached their rock bottom, they knew where they wanted to be and that they could go there. -Must be an important factor in facing the destruction caused for sure.


When I had a private counseling session with RCR, she said I needed to let H know that I was standing. I didn't feel comfortable doing so because I feared his rejection. I was like that the last few years before BD, too. Scared to tell H I loved him because he was withdrawing from us and I was scared to hear he didn't want me any more. I think there's nothing wrong with telling a spouse we love them as long as we are also moving forward on our own journey at the same time. -Hmm interesting. I have NOT told Beast anything of this sort. Not since before things went physical with OW anyway. I do not tell him because I do not want him thinking ''Oh well she is waiting, I can do whatever''...I want him to feel that I might not be here forever. Because frankly I might not be;)


My H has always been the kind of person to give up when the problem got big instead of working to resolve it. He's the kind that will drive right into the crash instead of swerving. My H will bury his head in the sand rather than deal with a problem. When he's criticized, he'll drop that person rather than look at himself and see if anything that person said might be true. -Same

Thanks for that detailed post. These kinds of discussions really help me piece things together and hopefully help others too.  :)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Anjae

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Re: The pink fridge moment continued!
« Reply #116 on: April 15, 2019, 04:49:33 PM »
I agree nothing we do will help the MLCer come out of it, but I think there is a lot we can do to make it worse/delay it/ make it harder to return.

That used to be one of the main thoughts around here for a long time, and RCR has that view. Xyzcf thinks nothing we do will make a difference and I am more or less of the same opinion.

Also, what is make it worst/delay/make it harder to return? LP cut her MLCer pretty quickly - he was physically violent and tried to kill her, and they had a brutal divorce. It has been years since he wants back. She has no interest and recently she said even if she did he was still not ready.

Xyzcf and Mitz have been nothing but grace, their MLCer is allowed in their homes, they are close, etc. Their MLCers remain in crisis 8 or 9 years down the road.

What would had happen Mr J's crisis wise if I had cut contact with Mr J sooner, lets say at BD? I don't know. He may had panic and come rushing home. What good would that do? He wouldn't had done any work on himself and would had not hit rock bottom.

Clingers, especially super clingers, can hinder their LBS growth. They never let go and they can be overwhelming. Mr J certainly was. It has been years since he cannot come and go and that there is barely any contact. It is not like he has been using those years to do any inner work. MLCers do not tend to work on themselves while in Replay.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline MillyTopic starter

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Re: The pink fridge moment continued!
« Reply #117 on: April 16, 2019, 12:34:48 AM »
Great discussion. Yes, you can have clingers and indulge them, and they never come home. Likewise, you can cut them off right away, and they never come home. Some MLCers get stuck in their crisis.

However, there are different personality types. The clinger will normally not vanish even if the LBS goes NC. The LBS has to insist on her NC for the clinger to really go, like Anjae's H.  On the other hand, the MLCer who is an initial boomerang can vanish very quickly if the LBS goes NC. It just takes the LBS saying go away once and the MLCer really goes away, and not only for a long time, but often in distance too, moving far away. 

I'm just going to throw this out there, it's possible that the clinger needs to feel the LBS's love is there, he needs confirmation of that love, it gives him security similar to what a mother provides. The vanisher type, however, takes offense and immediately pulls down the big doors on the LBS. She hurt him and he knows how to cut someone off who hurts him. He's probably done that with one of his parents at some point as a child or teen.

My friend who is a doctor, I've spoken about her before, told me it was important to keep a line of communication. I spoke to her about NC and the advice here, and she said that contact must be kept up if I wanted to reconcile. Her H also had a MLC, he was a vanisher, went to the other side of the world, gave her no address, was monster, no maintenance, but he was a wallower, no OW. One day he just woke up is how he described it. He talked about living in a fog. They are now reconciled and better than ever.

It's hard to know how much contact is correct. We don't want to appear needy as that is unattractive, we also don't want to appear as though we're waiting. I would say that the fundamental point of whatever contact we choose to have, is that we must keep working on ourselves and moving forward in our lives. The whole point being we cannot resolve their crisis. As long as we don't neglect our own work, then I don't think that communicating with the MLCer can hurt. My opinion only of course.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Acorn

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Re: The pink fridge moment continued!
« Reply #118 on: April 16, 2019, 07:04:25 AM »
Hi Milly, I read your most recent posts several times as I truly wished to understand where you were coming from.  I’m not going to comment on contact/going dim/ no contact and how they may affect the chances of reconciliation.  Because, I firmly hold the opinion that any type of contact LBS chooses is not dependent upon the future prognosis of M but the needs and wants of LBS so that he/she can heal and live her life to the full.  That would be the ultimate paving in my view.  It’s strong, mature and honourable. 

I read and understand your regret about the decisions you made regarding your boundaries.  If I may, please, I would like to offer a different view.

For what it’s worth, I think your H’s initial back and forth is no different than many MLCers of newbies described here.  At the beginning of their journey, they still have the habits/memories of their old life.  They can still see their ‘old’ life as they are not that far away from the entrance of the tunnel.  They maintain one foot in the old life, the other in the tunnel, afraid to let go of either. 

I think you did the right thing by putting a firm stop to his indecision.  He was maintaining both worlds to your and your kids’ detriment.  Even if you had left the decision to him, OW would have made it for him fairly soon anyway.   You, not OW, took control of your situation and decided on a course that upheld your dignity and gave you a decent chance to chart your own course in life.  It’s my guess that you wouldn’t this strong, independent, gracious and dignified had you allowed him to continue to waffle between your family and OW. 

As for showing LBS’s love to MLCer.  Love is not a tool that can be used to convince/persuade MLCer that they have chance with us if they repent(!).  It’s not our job to make them see our love.  It’s their job to SEE and understand.  It’s only one anecdote, however, I will share....  H has recently told me that it was my love that kept me praying for him all these dark years.  Yes, I told him I loved him, begged him, pleaded with him, immediately after BD.  After that, I did not breathe a word about it, nor did I show him.  I kept my interactions polite and gracious.  Nothing more.  I left him alone completely and treated him like a distant cousin/demented uncle who was down on his luck and living with us for a while.  I think I showed more love to a checkout clerk than my H!  However, he knew.  He always knew that I loved him. 

Just my 2 cents’.  Discard if it is total nonsense to you, Milly. 
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 07:37:58 AM by Acorn »
Feb 2015: BD 1. H has a Nuclear meltdown.  The next morning arctic cold descends.
Oct 2015: BD 2,  ILYBIANILWY. “We should not have gotten married.”
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Never left home
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: The pink fridge moment continued!
« Reply #119 on: April 16, 2019, 07:27:14 AM »
Milly that is a constant battle in our heads on what we should do and how we do it.
My opinion is all MLCers are different. What works on one   , will not work on the other.
That probably doesn't help you one bit,  but it's the way I see it. We just have to do what we feel is right.

 

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