Author Topic: My Story Bits and Pieces  (Read 2784 times)

Offline AnonTopic starter

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My Story Bits and Pieces
« on: April 18, 2019, 06:42:44 PM »
I didn't plan on starting a new thread but here I am,,, starting a new thread. 

My story (in more detail than I've ever revealed before):
Best friends since 1996, he was my roommate for about 18 mo.   H was interested in me immediately but I wasn't interested in him at all that way.   We did lots together and had fun, just as friends, even after he was no longer my roommate.    Then in 1998, he told me he wanted to reduce the frequency of contact because he still had those romantic thoughts about me and it was too hard to continue.   To my surprise I didn't like hearing that, told him I felt more than friends too, and we began to date.  I fell hard and fast after that.  H was ecstatic and went overboard showing me the most romantic side of him.  I was blown away.   Engaged 1999, but cancelled when H's 18 yr old son was killed in a highway accident in 2000.  It was a horrible time for him and all of us who loved him and his son.  Soon, H soon distanced himself from me and everyone else he felt couldn't relate to the experience of losing a child.  That included me, although I lost my only sibling to an accident when I was 28 yr old.  Not the same as losing a child, I agree but still an incredible loss than just didn't seem to count to him at all.  We split romantically by the end of 2000, but intended to remain friends.   His grief was just awful to see.   He would come over to visit but he was just so antsy and anxious he couldn't manage to stay longer than 1/2 hour or so.   He would do anything to escape the pain of his loss but nothing worked, of course.   It followed him wherever he went.   

When he distanced himself from me romantically I was hurt but understanding.   It was nothing like BD after we were married.   Not even close.   I got on with life quite easily back then.  Happy to be friends, still hurt for awhile about the loss of the romantic relationship, but really was okay getting on with my life and not expecting to resume anything. 

We had very sporadic contact between 2001 and 2003.   In mid 2001 he met a woman who was his sisters step daughter and they began a very short lived romance.   Hot and heavy to the point that he planned to relocate to where she lived after seeing her for one week and then phone calls after that for just 2 months.   He was crazy about her but something happened and he didn't relocate.   To this day he considers he dodged a bullet there because she is one weird woman according to him.

Mid 2003, his feelings seem to change again in relation to me and he showed again a lot of interest romantically.   I fell in right away and couldn't be happier to have him back as a boyfriend.   We married a year later and had a great marriage (I thought) until a year or so before BD and then at BD it all blew up, of course.   I thought at the time that he had moved through some grief stages and now wanted our relationship back.   Now... I wonder.... was he in MLC then?   And when he came back did he shortcut his MLC journey?  He was 45 yr. old when his son was killed.  It was only 24 months later (approx) that he resumed with me in 2003.   Then married in mid 2004.

I wonder now if he was in a MLC from 2000 - 2003, and if resuming with me cut short his journey.   If so,,, no wonder his MLC came back with vengeance in 2017. 

So... that's my back story.   BD June 2017 out of nowhere.   OW who he met at a high school reunion present for 3 weeks before BD.   Good marriage before then but not exactly lustful in the bedroom.   We had passed that crazed stage but it seems that's what he wanted and could be why he left.   Those new relationship feelings where sex predominates.  It's all about that and his OW is at the ready at a moments notice.   


Where am I now?   I don't know anymore.    What I do know is I am still very confused.   I'm pretty sure I don't want to reconcile  with H but at the same time I dwell and obsess on what's happened and what he's doing ,,, endlessly. 

I just started seeing a new psychologist (the 3rd one and the other 2 were useless).   This guy seems promising.   He is a Family Therapist specializing in EMDR, PTSD, trauma etc.  I've had one visit.   We talked about my interest in moving on but feeling held back somehow so my progress is pretty slow.  He called this 'sediment'.   In the beginning it's pure chaos and hell but eventually unresolved things settle as sediment but we can still improve and progress.   But that sediment... think of a flowing river.  The river continues to flow around the sediment, sometimes getting backed up by it but slowly making it's way through it.   Contrast that with a river flowing with no sediment in it's way.   It moves quickly and freely and as it should.    He says this sediment is what's creating my dwelling and obsessing.   I believe him.   I don't want to reconcile - but I do want to stop obsessing.   

My homework after session 1 with the psychologist is this:   make a list of what angers you, and don't hold back.  It's all important. 
Well,,, for someone who doesn't feel much anger of late, this really stirred up quite a bit of anger.   Back to the beginning anger like.. how could you just decide that unilaterally and leave after 21 years?  without even a conversation?   And... the anger that goes with knowing that H and OW were conspiring how to get him out of his marriage while I was oblivious that there was even a problem.   And.... the anger that goes with knowing he had to completely throw me under the bus to family and friends in order for them to make sense of his awful actions.   

All this needs to be brought out again into the light of day to be examined and dealt with,,, and well, the anger is pretty intense.   I'm glad I found this therapist.   I think he is on the right track unlike the previous 2 I've seen.   He is trained in PTSD, EMDR etc so I'm sure if he thinks I'll benefit he will tell me and that's the direction we will take. 

Back to my thread title - Bits and Pieces - that's what this stage of my recovery feels like.   My thoughts are all over the place.   There isn't really a rhyme or reason to what I think from one day to the next.   I do believe I'm good at suppressing feelings and ignoring the pain and horror.   I'm so good at it that I feel less affected by my LBS experience than many here.   At the same time,,, I think the real thoughts and the raw pain, are there but I haven't been willing to bring them to the surface and address them.   I think I could be in for a bumpy ride with this new therapist. 

In the meantime, it seems my H still has to have some kind of regular contact.   Less than just after BD but still pretty often.   We used to hug in the early days and show some affection but not for ages now.  I refuse and he seems fine with it too.   We couldn't be more distant than we are now but even so, he just added a few hundred dollars to his regular payment to me so I could deal with a few irregular expenses (new tires, vet bill etc.)   That pleased me for reasons way beyond that I could use the money.  His behavior is confusing and my reaction (or not) is confusing too.   Despite what I think about my great progress,, I think I'm mostly kidding myself and I still have a long way to go and a lot more to understand about myself and where I am in this quagmire.   

Previous thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10583.0









   
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 10:23:27 PM by Thunder »

Offline barbiedoll

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2019, 08:15:40 PM »
Anon.. I wanted you to know that 2 days ago I posted this huge long post to you and lost the entire thing! Ugh. By then it was after midnight and I was exhausted . I had suggested PTSD and to see about EMDR...and it sounds like you have taken steps in that direction. EMDR helped me tremendously ..maybe even saved me. It is NOT a magic pill and there is much work to do as well, but it "dulled" the sharp edges that cut me every single day. Rumination. A horrible place the brain takes us as we try to process trauma. To this day ( almost 5 years ) I have to be very aware of my thinking and be pro-active about my tendency to ruminate over and over and over. I think you have made a great move in the right direction.

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how could you just decide that unilaterally and leave after 21 years?  without even a conversation?   And... the anger that goes with knowing that H and OW were conspiring how to get him out of his marriage while I was oblivious that there was even a problem.   And.... the anger that goes with knowing he had to completely throw me under the bus to family and friends in order for them to make sense of his awful actions.   
.

Just reading this, I can feel anger . My anger and utter rage has been my #1 struggle. I believe I finally have it under control or it is done with me and has passed. Anger is very important to process trauma . And you are right . WHO DOES THIS?   After 21 years ..for me it was over 30. And how DARE there be no conversation and all decisions about MY life was up to him and some temporary OW?. I was most enraged that SHE knew MY marriage was "over" before I did !.   Regardless, I do wish you great success with this new trauma counsellor and I will be following along .

Interesting article:

https://drjillmanning.com/betrayal-trauma/
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 08:20:26 PM by barbiedoll »
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Online Treasur

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2019, 12:53:42 AM »
Sediment fits how it feels/felt to me too. And like Barbie, EMDR saved my life and spirit.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Schratz66

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2019, 11:58:37 AM »
Still riding along with you Anon. So glad you seemed to have gotten a decent therapist this time. I gave up after 2 and there aren't many more where I am at.
Me 52
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2019, 02:40:22 PM »

  Despite what I think about my great progress,, I think I'm mostly kidding myself and I still have a long way to go and a lot more to understand about myself and where I am in this quagmire.   


Yep, here is where I am too. Except that I began this over a year before you. I think I kidded myself that first full year, maybe more, that my H would just return. That there really was no OW. That we were....wait for it....DIFFERENT. Ummm Hmmmmm. 

Anywho, my take on all this is that if you are questioning your own healing, then, by definition, you are healing. Every day, bit by bit. Maybe in such small increments, it is not noticeable to the naked eye. But certainly in retrospect, you will see it. I always joke that I am going to be the healthiest most "healed" person on the planet after all this. I dare say we all will be. We are all here. Looking for answers. Looking for advice. Trying to be graceful. Trying to choose joy. All while at the threshold of hell.

Much of what you wrote resonates with me. I am really awesome at suppressing feelings and emotions too. Quite stoic and controlled....until I explode. Usually via chardonnay. I am very interested to hear about your EMDR therapy. The more I hear Treasur and Barbie talk about it, the more I think I may need it too.

I admire your strength and honestly. I have great hope for you.
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2019, 09:59:29 PM »
Barbie, Treasur, Schratz, Kit,,, thanks for taking the time to read and post!  Your comments are all so valuable.   

Schratz,,,thanks for following along.   Are you out of options for therapists in your area?  I hope not and I hope you give it another try.   I know that I was not ready to do the work I need to do with my 3rd therapist until now.  If I had tried even 6 months ago it would have bombed again because I wasn't ready to recover and move forward.   I wanted to stay stuck and where I was and resisted any suggestion on their part that my healing depended on my willingness to let go.   So I baffled them with BS and told them what they wanted to hear.  Therapy for me then, was just too soon.   Back then I just needed a shoulder to cry on... a lot.   

Ahh, Barbie... I hate that when we lose our well thought out lengthy posts, and I even hate it more when it was a post for me from someone as wise as you are.   I never thought the rumination had anything to do with unprocessed trauma.   I thought it meant I had to be still pining for my H, which I really am not.   But yes, I definitely ruminate, and obsess and the MLC fallout is pretty much on my mind 24/7.   I would give anything to have normal thoughts about normal things and normal problems.   Not this sick obsessing over what my adulterous husband did to me.   It's like a poison and I hope my therapist helps me resolve it once and for all.    I am serious about moving on and truly want to put this MLC horror in my rear view mirror.  It's frustrating that I can't so I hope EMDR, PTSD, or whatever therapy is out there, this therapist will know what's best for me.   

The assignment to recall what angers me the most about what happened is quite the trip.   Purposely going there (instead of purposely not going there), has been truly eye opening about all that I have suppressed.   The ugliness of it all, the rage, the devastation to me and my well-being,,, oh wow,,, to recall that and let it come forth is freeing.  I see it for what it is now, and not what I wish it was.   I've buried a lot to psychologically survive and to get to where I am now.   

I didn't deserve what happened to me and my marriage.   None of us deserved it.   My marriage was solid (haha), I had 100% emotional security, and I was happy.   Really happy.  Life was good.   Until it wasn't.    I can't believe I didn't recognize his shallowness and his inability to truly love.   I have to take some of the blame for my tragic blindside.   It was coming all along, from the first day we met, and I just chose to look the other way and not question those little irregularities throughout the marriage that were signposts of something ominous to come one day.   

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I am really awesome at suppressing feelings and emotions too. Quite stoic and controlled....until I explode. Usually via chardonnay.
I can relate!  Except the match to my dynamite is usually Pinot Grigio.   

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I admire your strength and honestly. I have great hope for you.

Thanks Kit but this is how I feel about LBS's in general.   We lived through (and still are) one of life's most painful tragedies.   At first we survived by taking each day hour by hour, then began slowly rebuilding our lives.  Eventually we thrive,,, if not now, but eventually when we are through our own tunnel.   We gain strength this way but,,, I still greatly resent H for forcing this growth on me instead of me choosing my own time to grow and become strong.    (See,,, I have lots of work to do with that therapist, lol).   

Have a great night everyone  - it's late here and I have to work tomorrow.   :-\


Offline Schratz66

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2019, 10:26:01 AM »
Unfortunately there are no more therapists in my area that are covered by my insurance and I really can't afford out of pocket costs right now.
The forum will be my therapy  :D
You are right - none of us deserved it - like you I should have seen my H inability for true, deep emotions. I just always thought he just couldn't show them due to his FOO cold upbringing.
Me 52
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2019, 04:46:22 AM »
To be fair this forum is probably more helpful than many therapists out there!  :)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2019, 04:55:46 AM »
I agree with you Morte 100%

Offline Sam I Am

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2019, 08:08:59 AM »
Following Anon!
10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.19 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -29 Married with 2 children  Lives Local
S - 27 Engaged in Prof School across country
3 Dogs (he left them all behind - taking care of them but not really visiting or interacting with them yet)

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2019, 11:22:50 AM »
To be fair this forum is probably more helpful than many therapists out there!  :)

Agreed! My IC was asking me all about HS one day. And she was amazed and said that it was really great to have a support group that went through/was going through exactly what I am.  Tell you what, I am pretty sure HS has saved my life on more than one occasion!
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Online Treasur

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2019, 11:39:08 AM »
Certainly saved my sanity  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2019, 10:04:40 PM »
Just shaking my head at the latest ridiculousness from my MLCer.  He thinks he can outsmart me.  He should know better - he couldn't before MLC and he still can't, lol. 

A year ago I was shocked and hurt when he tried this but now sh!te like this is no big deal - it goes with MLC.  I didn't even get angry,,,, I laughed and it still brings a smile when I think of it. 

The last week of March H called about something and before we hung up we had a few moments of casual conversation.   I had mentioned a couple of weeks prior that I might be away in June for a few days and again in Sept.  Anyway, during our casual conversation, he says he would like to look after the house and the pets while I am away.  Me, initially happy because I don't have to pay for a pet sitter, said "sure - that would be great - saves me a lot of money and you can cut the lawn while you are here too"  ::)   He asked for my exact dates because he might plan a party one night (we have a great house for entertaining).   I wasn't sure so told him I would let him know but possibly 1st week in June and for a couple of weeks sometime in September.  I could have given him exact dates but something told me to be careful about revealing them.  The dates really are 2 nights in the 2nd week of June and 2+ weeks in September ending on Oct 1. (Tuscany,,, here I come.   Then right after that.... Portland, OR,,, here I come). 

The next week or so,,, I got more and more uneasy about letting him look after the house.  I wondered about the guest list for the party in June and wondered if he planned to fly OW out to stay in MY house, unbeknownst to me.  OW has never been in the house and I know H would LOVE to show her what his hard earned money was capable of buying, since all she saw last year was the tiny 60 yr old suite he was ashamed to be living in.  Nothing like the modern house we still own.   I quickly ruled that hunch out because I would only gone for 2 nights - Sunday and Monday - hardly party nights either, but he didn't know that (remember I was vague).   But then,,,,what about September???  Would he dare then?  Bring her out for much of the time I was away so they could live as a couple in MY house?   Over my dead body, lol....

In case you wonder if I'm overthinking all this, he tried to get her into my house last year.   He asked if I would trade places with him for a few days while his cousin and her husband were out visiting and hotels were super pricey.   I said I would consider (not!), and eventually sent him some private rental info that would be perfect for 2 couples, lol.  He called almost right away and said it's NOT 2 couples - just him and his cousin and her husband.  He swore convincingly that OW would not be there.   Of course, we didn't swap and they stayed in his tiny ancient suite on the east side of the tracks (seriously..).    AND,,,when the cousin and her husband arrived,,, drum roll,,,,,so did the OW.  (I bet that took you all by surprise, right?)   I found out about it, of course.  Eventually he realized I knew all about his little deception even before she arrived.   I never spoke of it to him but he knew ,,, that I knew.  I think that was the beginning of the end of my stand.   I was pretty sure he wouldn't be dumb enough to ever try that again!   And I was dumb enough to think he wasn't dumb enough to try it again.  (Like, duhhh, Anon... really?  :P)

That whole first week after he offered to look after the house and pets,,, I recalled his attempt last year and whether he would dare try it again,,, to get her into our house.  The more I thought of it the more it made sense he would attempt it, if not in June but certainly in Sept when I was gone for over 2 weeks.   So,,, I sped up a plan I had been pondering for awhile,,, I advertised and immediately got a tenant/roommate for the lower level.  $900/mo!! She's perfect and we get on great which is a good thing since we share the kitchen and the outdoor space.  I'm enjoying the company too.   I sent a text to H advising him of the 'good news'  ;D   Less than 10 seconds later he calls.  He didn't exactly sound happy for me - it was obvious he was a bit choked despite the fact that our agreement means we share the $900.  But he had to rein it in otherwise I would wonder why he wasn't thrilled.  And being less than thrilled meant I thwarted some of his plans, I suspect.

Today,,, I find out my hunch was dead on correct.   Within 2 days of my first conversation with him where he offers to stay at the house, he plans and books a trip for OW to come out from Sept 14 - 22.   Hilarious - those are exactly my Tuscany trip dates!  I didn't give him exact dates but he had enough info to suspect I would be gone then.  And now.... where are they going to stay?  He currently lives in a small basement bachelor suite.  So now there are plans for a road trip to the coast and back.   Pricey,,, compared to living free in my house while I'm gone. 

He seems to have gotten over the shock of once again being out smarted by me.   He knows he can't do a thing about it either... who in their right mind would object to getting half of that $900/mo revenue???   







Offline Rippedapart

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2019, 12:43:59 AM »
Hi Anon,

I rarely post but I have been following most stories here on HS.

Great news that you have extra income coming in and company is a bonus.

Nice move on your part, I'm sure it stopped your H in his tracks.  At the same time its quite hurtful to think he would bring OW into your home, I suppose he feels "entitled "  I'm lost for words. 

Ripped

Offline Whyus

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2019, 01:25:56 AM »
Well played Anon and you actually done him a favor too so your still the good guy (to a normal Person) ;)

I didn't deserve what happened to me and my marriage.   None of us deserved it.   My marriage was solid (haha), I had 100% emotional security, and I was happy.   Really happy.  Life was good.   Until it wasn't.    I can't believe I didn't recognize his shallowness and his inability to truly love. 
This, exactly this!!! If anybody had told me 3years ago what XW was upto I would have throat punched them on the spot. She wasnt like that (Whyus was a tool  :o)!
We also has a big detached house with a cellar and 2 garages, 2 cars, pets, healthy Kids, good Jobs and friends, common Hobbys and a plan. We could have both retired at 60, sold the house and bought something smaller, a Bungalow maybe and we would have been sorted. Now its all gone because of some Gymnerd who is 15 years younger and who cant have Kids of his own. A MILF in midlife is just perfect isnt she? She doesnt want Kids, shes done that $h!te and not ist time to party! Wait a Minute, she is married with 2 Kids... who cares, ill Show her my six pack and make some compliments.
None of this is fair, I suspected Nothing at BD, no conversation, nothing! She was already checked out after 6 months of being a double Agent, i was completely blindsided.
Quote
[/b]
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. W is actually getting People to accept/Tolerate them.
2 Sons - 19 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline Thunder

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2019, 02:13:18 AM »
Hi Anon,

I was smiling (maybe smirking) reading your post.
The poor dear didn't know what hit him...he had such grand plans.   ;D

You have good instincts Anon, I would always follow your gut.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline sachat3

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2019, 02:34:35 AM »
Attaching

I love how you outsmart him ha! These MLCers aren’t too clever are they!
Me - 27
H - 34
3 children together D2 D5 D7
Together - almost 8 years

BD & MLCer moved out - November 2017
OW discovered - December 2017

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2019, 06:11:53 AM »
What's that I smell?  ???

Oh yeah...



Burned MLCER!


You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Whyus

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2019, 06:21:30 AM »
 ;D now morte knows how to insert Gifs it may get even more interesting around here  :D

I do love how you stitched him up though Anon, class! :)
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. W is actually getting People to accept/Tolerate them.
2 Sons - 19 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2019, 09:42:18 AM »
Nicely played Anon. I am very impressed!

Also really impressed with Morte's gif!!

So excited for Tuscany!
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2019, 11:49:38 AM »
Thanks for the comments!  There is no better place to share a win like this except here.  ;D   Morte - love the gif.   I want to know how to do that!  Ursa - where are u?  You are about to be outdone here,  :P

Thunder - I can't help smirking either.  It's so smirk worthy isn't it?

Whyus - your comments make me laugh - about the gymnerd etc.   haha.   I've envied your recovery from the MLC madness but I feel I might be catching up a bit to where you are.   Or maybe I'm there, idk.   Life just feels pretty good right now. 

Ripped -
Quote
At the same time its quite hurtful to think he would bring OW into your home, I suppose he feels "entitled "  I'm lost for words. 
 
Last year it was pretty devastating when he tried it but this year I truly just shook my head and laughed at his nerve.   It doesn't hurt.  It just reinforces my stand,, to NOT stand.   I won't waste any emotion on this man - someone who has such little respect for my privacy.  Just confirms to me he is no where near worthy to be my friend, never mind a life partner. 

KIT - I'm with you!  So excited about the upcoming cult gathering!!  Have the t-shirts been ordered yet?
 
This latest discovery of my MLCer's deception has drawn my attention back to another recent win for me where he loses out huge and I do mean HUGE.   Less than 2 months after BD, the ow was pressuring my h to get the house up for sale to get me out and get his hands on his share of the equity.  He put her off by saying he wouldn't do it until I was a bit stronger and better at handling my unwanted new life.   It's almost 2 years later and ow is still pressuring h about why he hasn't sold the house yet.  I don't know what he's telling her these days about why it's still not sold but it's causing big problems for them.  She doesn't understand why and his excuses seem flimsy to her 2 years later.   

I know the reason he isn't selling the house but there is no way he could tell her the honest truth.   He's likely told her in the beginning he has equal share of the equity and that he would get a significant amount when it sells.   Amazingly enough,,, he forgot the terms of our prenup, until I reminded him several months later when he first talked to me about selling the house.   I won't go into detail but this is how it would have gone in the beginning if we sold both homes - he would get about 90k.   I would get the rest.   Hardly something he could tell ow about especially since she expects he will get half.  I would have bought him out if I could but it was pretty impossible for me to come up with 90k so if he wanted to sell then I would not stop the sale.   

Fast forward to today... almost 2 years later...and my, how things have changed.   The market has fallen here quite a bit since BD.   Hardly the time to sell anything when it's dropped this low.   It will recover but it will take time and patience for the turn around.   H was holding out for better news but then in late January decided he needed to move on selling the house.  Probably to pacify ow.   So I said, ok,,, whenever you are ready to meet with a realtor, let me know and we will get it on the market.   We meet with 2 realtors who confirm the bad news about the market.   Then he stalls, and stalls...doing nothing.   Eventually I realize that the drop in value means I now only need $65k to buy him out which I CAN manage.  If he finally gives in (again) to the ow pressure and wants to sell, then I simply offer to buy him out and I will own both homes with a cash flow from the rentals of $700/mo, after all the monthly expenses are paid.   It's no longer in my best interest to sell and since I hold ALL the cards,,, the houses will not be sold.  He has no say anymore.   

He recently told me he had been out looking at new condos but then with frustration said it won't happen because he had no money for the down payment.   I reminded him I could buy him out and he would have his down payment to which he replied - I don't want to be bought out!  I haven't waited this long to take a buy out now!  This is good news to me too,, because as long as he is a joint owner, he pays me $650/mo.  I don't know how long he can handle that payment but I doubt he can last as long as it will take for the market turnaround.   So a couple of years or so go by, I get his monthly payments, but he would still only be entitled to a $65k buyout unless the market improves.   

I can't see any way he could ever tell the truth about this to the ow.   The same ow that wanted me out of the house less than 2 months after BD so he could be free of me.  He's backed so tight into a corner it's hilarious.   If he wants to sell, I won't go along with it but instead will offer him the buyout.  His only choice is to stay invested in the homes or walk away with $65k - barely enough for a new car and a vacation with ow then it's all gone.    No other option is available to him.   Anyone play chess?  Well this is checkmate.  :D

Feels like I got them both with a dart right between the eyes.  ;D    Love that karma bus now that it's finally arrived.   8)







« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 11:51:15 AM by Anon »

Offline sachat3

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2019, 02:02:28 PM »
Maybe I’m just really petty and immature. Ahhh heck there’s no maybe about it. I am. But I always laugh at things like this. I mean it’s amazing that it works so well in your favour but also it’s such a big haha hehe in their face. I would so love to be a fly on the wall when they have these chats  and even more so when he explains the buy out.
Me - 27
H - 34
3 children together D2 D5 D7
Together - almost 8 years

BD & MLCer moved out - November 2017
OW discovered - December 2017

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2019, 11:25:13 AM »
Can I just say that I am grinning ear to ear with that post??? Does that make me petty. Eh, oh well. Nicely played Anon. <Slow dramatic clap>
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Milly

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2019, 12:46:27 AM »
I'm petty, too! Love that you outwitted your H on the housesitting scam and love, love your house ownership situation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me, I would have liked to have let H know that you know that he would bring OW to the house.

I'm going to bring a batch of cult wine for our Tuscany gathering!
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2019, 06:05:51 AM »
Quote from: Anon
Thanks for the comments!  There is no better place to share a win like this except here.  ;D   Morte - love the gif.   I want to know how to do that!  Ursa - where are u?  You are about to be outdone here,  :P

Watch and learn, worthy Padawan.....


Oh my......

What can I say except for



We all bow in awe:


before



As far as your Mid-Lifer goes.....
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 06:07:14 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Schratz66

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2019, 07:32:20 AM »
This was such a joy to read Anon - I, too, am grinning from ear to ear.
Well played - well played.

Me 52
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2019, 08:50:38 AM »
I'm going to bring a batch of cult wine for our Tuscany gathering!

You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2019, 03:12:43 PM »
UM, I take it back.  You are not undone.   Those gifts were some of your best 🤣.  Morte - you tie!  We need a tie breaker now.    Thanks for the laughs you guys. 

Milly - cult wine - how perfect! 

I have had a great few days grinning from ear to ear about my latest revelation of my financial situation and revelling in the petty ‘gotcha’ mentality.  I also grin from ear to ear because I had no idea 2 years ago that it would play out like this.   I was terrified for many reasons at BD, including financially.  I didn’t believe then and for a long time that I could do this well on my own financially.  In that respect I am actually better off than I was before BD.   Way better off,,,while h couldn’t have blown up his financial future more if he had tried.   

It’s a bitter victory though.  I loved that man, every ounce of my being loved him.  I am happy for me but incredibly sad for him.  My future looks bright while his looks pretty dim.   I’m just getting into the retirement travelling we both planned to do together  - starting with Rome, Florence, Tuscany (the cult meetup), then right after another trip to the US for a coastal trip with a longtime friend.  Then in March - Tel Aviv and Israel.  In the meantime, h spends all his vacation time visiting his ow in her home town, doing nothing all day because until she gets home from work.   Every trip is the same except the occasional road trip.   The contrast on how things have played out for each of us couldn’t be more stark.  I have to wonder now if he’s already paid dearly enough for his choices.   He’s destroyed and lost more than I ever could have imagined when this all started.  And I’ve gained.  Not just financially but I am happier now than I’ve been in a very long time, even when all was still good in the marriage. 

I feel like I’ve come out the other side where I know without a doubt I will be better than fine without him.  I’m not hoping for nor encouraging a reconciliation.   I like my own new life a bit too much to dive back into the uncertainty that awaits if we reconcile.  Will it always be this way?  I think so and  I want it to be so.   But who knows what is down the road 5 or so years from now?  I just know that today, all is right in my world.  😎


Offline Shining Star

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2019, 06:06:01 PM »
Awesome!  Love the karma bus...
H:56, I am 54
BD: March 2014, Left Sept 2014, Back Nov 2014
Left again in February 2015.  Asked for D on 9/22/15
Said he was "sure" he wanted a D in Dec 2015; 
Admitted long term affair - May 14, 2017 - says he is in love with the "symptom" but wants to build a relationship with me with "clear expectations" WHATEVER THAT MEANS!  Settlement Agreement signed 9/20/17.
Divorce final 3/14/18.
NC - by choice - 1/2018

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2019, 02:44:20 PM »
It’s a pretty slow day here, raining, windy.  Not much to do.   I was reflecting that I don’t post much anymore on my own thread which says my life has pretty much stabilized despite MLC and all the horrors it brings.   I feel like my old self in most ways.  When I see or talk to H I don’t have to pretend anything.  I am exactly who I am with him which is to say,,,I don’t have to pretend to not be interested in seeing or talking to him because I am truly not interested and I don’t have to try to GAL because I definitely have a full life that’s enjoyable for the most part.  It feels like I’ve somehow “arrived”.   H in the meantime still makes regular contact - weekly if not more frequent.   I keep it short and to the point though.   

Anyway, thought it might be interesting to go back and read my postings when I first came here.  I wasn’t wrong - it was fascinating reading and the most interesting part of it is that I almost didn’t recognize the woman I was back then.   The difference in me back then and me now is like night and day.  I have come a very long way.  I’m doing way more than surviving.  I’m thriving and enjoying life.  Lots to look forward to and very little looking back. 

I cringed when I felt the horrible pain in my postings back then but it was also awesome to see the growth and change in me since then.  It made my day to do that review.  😎

So if you are a new LBS, I can truthfully say, it gets better or at least it did for me.   Do your best to move forward and build your life without him, whether you are standing or not. 

Offline Milly

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2019, 03:01:02 PM »
Anon, thanks for coming and posting about how you feel about yourself now. When I read that you almost don't recognize the person you were when you first started posting, it makes me feel so hopeful about my own progress. I take it that you mean that you don't recognize that person because you're not devastated like you were at BD, and because you are a different woman now?

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement, even if I'm not a newbie.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2019, 01:43:43 AM »
Anon,

I hear you ... Ember bounced my thread and asked what was going on because I hadn't updated in a while.... Well, a "while" turned out to be since early February.... VERY little MLC-related is going on in my life anymore.. I too have regular contact (every couple of days) with my STBXW because of the kids but it is all business..... Polite, friendly, but business....

Life? Yep, like you, full to the brim - new projects, new experiences, new challenges and, like I said on Treasur's thread, new fires to fight thanks to the little 2-legged pyromaniacs known as "children." (NOT literal fires but you know what I mean)

I don't know if I'd say I have "arrived" as much as I find myself in transit and moving forward.... and that is good enough for me. Forward movement, even if one is NOT 100% sure of the destination is still movement and it is still forward.... There maybe the odd detour along the way but I believe that the journey is the goal rather than the destination... Mostly because, at the end of the story, the destination is the same for all of us - passing through the veil of life... The journey that we take to get there is what fills our days, fills them with joy and laughter, also with sorrow and tears... That journey called "life."
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2019, 06:04:30 PM »
Another update on my most recent revelation about my journey, or my current state of mind, or just my mindless rambling. 

First off, for those I follow, my apologies for being so 'absent' on your threads lately.   I am busier than I can ever remember, even before BD.  That's what GAL does I suppose.   I have time to read here occasionally but that's about it.  Summer (spring) is here and that is when the light switch turns on for me.   Winter is the opposite when I lie around like a beached whale with no energy or interest in anything.

I am facing another crossroads in my journey.   I've been content to be separated but not divorced and keep the houses and keep h on title and accept his contribution etc.   Until now.   Maybe its the therapy I've been going to for the last month but I might have changed my mind,,, to my financial detriment.   The best plan for me is to continue as is, and let h contribute but stay invested with me in our matrimonial home and our rental property.   I've offered to buy him out and he has refused and wants to wait for RE to improve in our area (3 - 5 years out).  Its a terrible decision on his part but what the heck.   I'm not about to educate him on how dumb that decision is.... or maybe I am for my own mental health going forward.

Despite all I've said previously about "I'm done", I don't totally feel done as long as we have these joint investments and I feel a bit stuck moving forward.   I would prefer to have no contact once we have severed these ties with the joint investments.  Until then, its necessary occasionally to talk or see each other.    It doesn't help that 1/2 my garage is occupied with his stuff.    I have no choice in the matter.   He is joint owner, pays half the expenses and is entitled to 1/2 the garage.   A lot of his stuff is in my garage, including the mushy cards ow has sent him for Christmas, and Valentines Day.

If I could have things exactly the way I want, his stuff would be gone, he would be off the title, and I love to tell him I don't want him in my life and please leave me alone and have a happy life with what's her name.   Right now, he contacts me way too frequently and only lives about a mile or so away.  He is always coming by for something in the garage or to drop something off.   Drives me nuts.  He told me earlier today he was coming by after his work to pick something up.   I told him that was no problem, but I wouldn't be home so just come by whenever.  I would have been home then except once he told me he was coming by I decided I needed to go get groceries and do a few other errands so I wouldn't be home.    Truth is,,, I would have loved to have stayed in, but I just didn't want to see him and have to pretend 'nice'.  So I left my own home to avoid having to do that and that has got to change. 

So... force a buy out so I can get rid of him?   What if he refuses again, then what to do?   Or sweeten the pot and pay him more than I need to just to get him gone?  Doing this would cost me a small fortune.   Giving up 2 or 3 years more of financial contributions from him so he can stay on title is a lot to give up, never mind giving him more than the buy-out should be.   I seriously am at a crossroads.   One road keeps me financially healthy but mentally not so healthy, the other road gives me mental health but at a great financial cost.   I don't know what to do. 

It's a weird thing, but I feel nothing when I talk to him or see him.  The feelings are gone and I don't miss him.   But... the obsessive thoughts are still there and is why I'm seeing a therapist again.   How can I have no feelings for him but still obsess about what happened to us?  and to him?   Still obsessing about how could he have done this?  Obsessing that he is still with the same woman that led him to blow up my life.   Obsessing that he's somehow 'won', and I'm still the biggest 'dumpee' in this whole soap opera.  It offends me so much that he's still with the original alienator (she's 'won' too), and the thought of continued contact with him going forward makes me ill.   To me the only cure for this is to say a final and forever good bye.  I dream about it.   Anything less is not going to cut it.   So do I force a buy out to my financial detriment (and it's a big detriment), or do I hang in there and find a way to deal with him still being around at times and me having to get away from my own house if I don't want to see or talk to him?










 

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2019, 02:57:20 AM »
How about neither?

I am going to come left field here but if I was in your situation....

Step 1. Gather together all OW mushy cards from Valentine's and Christmas, place them in your fire place/grill and burn them. Make sure you apply liberal fuel as not to have a scrap left. If he ever questions where they went well...it certainly isn't your job to keep track of his love letters is it?

Step 2. Set boundaries about when he is allowed into the garage. Tell him you appreciate it if he keeps his drop bys in the evening, or weekend, or whatever. Yes it is both of your house but you reside in it. He does not get to just drop by when he feels like it. If a landlord owns your home, they don't get to walk in as they please. His ownership of the house is different from his right to walk in. Ask him if he would like you randomly dropping by his and OW's house to collect mail and take out the trash. Guarantee he will get the message loud and clear.

Step 3. Once number 1 and 2 are in place..see how you feel mentally then. Perhaps they will be enough to help ease that feeling. Personally my mortgage is a joint mortgage with me and Beast. It is cheaper than any rent I would get in the area. It would be ridiculous for me to sell the house, and go rent somewhere twice what I pay...just so I am not tied to him. But we have small children and will be tied together anyway. If cutting off the house allows you to break free completely and you feel that is what you need after reflecting on it a while just do it. Money can always be made again. Peace of mind is priceless. Just make sure you don't jump to anything without a plan.

Just my advice anyway.  8)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 02:59:41 AM by Mortesbride »
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online Treasur

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2019, 03:03:48 AM »
I think Morte is right about taking a step back from either/or.

Ignore the 'solutions' for a moment but take a bit of time to think about what you most need, why and what the priorities are between different needs. Then, and only then, get a bit of paper and brainstorm some options. Or do it here lol.

It sounds as if your instinct is that what you are currently doing isn't quite right for you but you don't like what you see as the alternatives much either? So it is healthy that you want to find some new ones.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Schratz66

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2019, 05:18:41 AM »
Anon,

Don't ever apologize for being busy - we all are happy for you and like you I love summer and the long days and the sun and being outside enjoying life.

Maybe you are obsessing because I do believe we feel that in order to move on we have to understand what happened. At least for me it is so hard to accept something that I don't understand. That's why I was crap in some subjects in school, because unless I could see it and understand it, I didn't get it and I couldn't accept it as facts. I am glad you are back in therapy to get to the bottom of the need to know what happened. Isn't it funny though how we LBS are the deep thinkers...lol...I do not think a single MLC is concerned why they bolted.
Which is also why we LBS will grow from this horrid experience and the MLC will just run until they collapse exhaustedly.

I have to admit that I am a wee bit jealous that you are at a point where you have zero feelings for H. I would imagine that to be so freeing in itself. Hoping I will get there in time myself.

As far s the properties. That's a tough one. Whenever I cannot decide something, I set myself a date and until that date I do not think about the decision. When the date comes I then go with my gut instinct the first time I think about it again. Don't rush a decision and make sure it is what is truly best for you.

Me 52
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2019, 05:30:25 AM »
Schratz, Anon,

Remember the First Axiom of Beardom.....

"Trying to 'understand' MLC is like trying to taste green with your elbow!"

so, unless you LIKE sticking the fork up your nose over and over, you might want to consider evaluating the cost vs. benefit ratio of what it would take to gain the "understanding" you seek, especially if your Mid-Lifer isn't telling you what it was like in their fog.... Without that input, you are working off assumptions and biased observations...
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Whyus

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2019, 07:03:49 AM »
It's a weird thing, but I feel nothing when I talk to him or see him.  The feelings are gone and I don't miss him.   But... the obsessive thoughts are still there and is why I'm seeing a therapist again.   How can I have no feelings for him but still obsess about what happened to us?  and to him?   Still obsessing about how could he have done this?  Obsessing that he is still with the same woman that led him to blow up my life.   Obsessing that he's somehow 'won', and I'm still the biggest 'dumpee' in this whole soap opera.  It offends me so much that he's still with the original alienator (she's 'won' too), and the thought of continued contact with him going forward makes me ill.   To me the only cure for this is to say a final and forever good bye.
I can so relate to this Anon. My XW lives a mile away and is still with her Toyboy, the original AP. I obsessed with this all day, every day for a looooooong time. Its quite horrific really.
What I realized is that im actually better off without her, she hasnt won anything and neither has OM. She has lost everything and when he is my age XW will be 60 (no offence but I couldnt imagine my GF being 60 atm.) They deserve each other, they could get married and have 17 Kids and he would STILL BE HER AP! They know it, I know it, our Kids know it, her Family knows it and half of the town knows it! What Kind of life is that??? They are welcome to it, we can hold our heads up high Anon. We have nothing to be ashamed of.


Now go back and read mortes post again! Really, I wanted to write the same
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 07:23:02 AM by UrsaMajor »
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. W is actually getting People to accept/Tolerate them.
2 Sons - 19 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline Shining Star

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2019, 10:28:02 AM »
I totally agree - burn anything related to OW.  That is not acceptable that it is in your living space - even a garage.  Secondly, is it possible to move out.  Maybe rent an apartment and then rent the house since he doesn't want to sell right now.  That way you would have your private space and not need to see him.  AND, you don't lose financially when you are ready to go to settlement.  Just a thought.  I lived through what you described, and eventually, I sold the house, moved, and sent him a text that he had to get his stuff out within the following week.  At the time it seemed like a good decision and probably was, but I preferred my old house.  Maybe you can temporarily live somewhere else, and then when you settle the financials, you can move back in.  That way you aren't rushed.  Even though I was completely fed up, the divorce has been incredibly painful and emotionally I don't think I was prepared - thought I was - but wasn't.
H:56, I am 54
BD: March 2014, Left Sept 2014, Back Nov 2014
Left again in February 2015.  Asked for D on 9/22/15
Said he was "sure" he wanted a D in Dec 2015; 
Admitted long term affair - May 14, 2017 - says he is in love with the "symptom" but wants to build a relationship with me with "clear expectations" WHATEVER THAT MEANS!  Settlement Agreement signed 9/20/17.
Divorce final 3/14/18.
NC - by choice - 1/2018

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2019, 11:36:55 AM »
Or just have a garage sale... open the doors and offer each item for £1.  8)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online Treasur

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2019, 12:14:13 AM »
How are you doing, Anon?
And are you still musing on the plan you had a while ago to sell the current house and move to the smaller rented one?

Fwiw...your feeling about being at a crossroads is perhaps a healthy sign that some part of you wants to move forward and have more control over your own life. If it helps, remember that all the anecdotes here suggest that MLC trumps divorce, the selling of marital homes etc. Doing what is best for you will not affect your h's progress, or not, one way or the other. But it may make a big difference to the quality of your life. It sounds at a basic level as if you simply want very little contact with your h at all. Which is entirely reasonable. And that having financial and property links prevents that from happening. Thinking hard and honestly about what kind of contact you do and don't want...if that is the heart of the issue for you....may help you to consider all of the different options you have for boundaries to get what you need. But worth considering too that if your h has some emotional need for contact with you, he will find other ways to try to make that happen regardless of legal or financial links. So it will always be your responsibility to say yes or no based on meeting YOUR needs if that makes sense.

Is there a way you could experiment say for a month or two in sharply reducing contact with him to see how that feels but without making big financial decisions? What is the bare minimum  of contact you need to have and why?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

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Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2019, 06:15:35 PM »
Hi all and thanks for the interesting replies!
Morte,,burn the OW cards, I really would love to except I’m sure h would suspect me instantly if they disappeared.    And then,,, he would think I’m still pining for him and can’t handle the evidence of his ongoing happy R.   I’m not going to lie though,,,the thought has occurred to me to make those cards disappear.  Ever since then, I’ve been trying to figure what that says about ME and I’m sure it’s not exactly complimentary.  So they are still where I found them,,,, for now ::)

Boundaries for h are very firm about him coming into the house.  He can’t come in period, unless I know ahead of time and agree to it.    He can come and go whenever to the garage and has a remote he can use but the house is off limits without notice.   There are 2 locks on the doors and his key only opens one of those locks.  Unless he’s made arrangements in advance to go into the house when I’m not home, both locks are engaged and he has no access.   

I recently changed the lock situation because I suspect ow will be visiting our city soon and he may just try to get her in the house when no one is home.   To show off the nice house he used to own, at least while he was still a decent man.  He owns nothing here but is still on title - of course she would know nothing about that so he can still try to show off.   He’s tried it before - didn’t work then either   ;D ;D

Quote
Maybe you are obsessing because I do believe we feel that in order to move on we have to understand what happened. At least for me it is so hard to accept something that I don't understand
Yep, 66 you are bang on.  I saw my therapist yesterday and he said the exact same thing.  I am done but want to understand wtf happened.  He tells me that will likely be a futile quest.  Just like Ursa keeps telling us all over and over again like a broken record, lol.   There is no explanation that will make sense.   My therapist is interesting and I will try to relay more a bit later about our sessions.

Quote
she hasnt won anything and neither has OM. She has lost everything and when he is my age XW will be 60 (no offence but I couldnt imagine my GF being 60 atm.) They deserve each other, they could get married and have 17 Kids and he would STILL BE HER AP! They know it, I know it, our Kids know it, her Family knows it and half of the town knows it! What Kind of life is that??? They are welcome to it, we can hold our heads up high Anon. We have nothing to be ashamed of.
Despite what I say about them winning anything, I know it’s quite the opposite.  They have won nothing.   They think they have for awhile and my therapist says they will try dozens of times to confirm that but never get there.  Never.   It’s a doomed life from the beginning.  What ails them wasn’t caused by a relationship and it can’t be fixed by one either.   And yes, so true Whyus, we CAN hold our heads up high .  At first I was humiliated and felt such shame, but eventually realized the shame is NOT mine and I no longer feel it.   Humiliation because of how h handled thing with so little respect for me?   Well it’s not as big now either but hard to drop all together when I think of how little he must of thought of me to end our m with a bd and new r with ow. 

Shining, I did consider your suggestion awhile back but I decided to stay put and work on whatever I can to keep him away as much as possible.  It’s a work in progress and I’ve had success recently.  I am moving toward a divorce at some point but until then I play my cards to my advantage for the most part.   It helps that my cards are awesome and his cards are garbage.   8)

Treasur,,, my plan awhile back to move to the smaller house and sell the current house got sidelined when h refused to put the house on the market.  He wants to wait until the market improves.  So I advertised and got an amazing roommate for the lower level - we share the kitchen up otherwise we have our own space.  She is delightful and is good company when we sit out on the deck or share a meal together.   If h changes his mind about selling,,well the reality now is that I can buy him out!  Give him his measly share and I remain the owner of both homes with great cash flow thanks to my roommate and the rent from the renters in the other house.  If he takes the buy out he’s gone for good.  If he doesn’t (bad financial move on his part), he has to pay me $650/mo. to remain a joint owner.   I’m not sure what’s ideal for me because BOTH are good scenarios except if he stays invested then we still remain connected. 

I saw my therapist yesterday and talked a bit about the options.  He says to back off any decisions at the moment.  He wants to go through a few other steps with me first before addressing this issue.   It makes sense knowing what he plans in our next few sessions and it’s not urgent enough for me atm. 

I do think h contacts for emotional reasons more than practical ones.   Whenever he leaves a message to call, I will try to guess what it’s about and just send a text with the answer to my best guess, 😝.  It never works but instead he texts back just asking if I will call him, please.  A phone conversation is never necessary but he won’t accept anything else.   Strange because this man is capable of sending and receiving over 800 texts/month.   Not lately but he certainly is no stranger to texting.  When it comes to what the bare minimum of contact would be for me?  None.  My goal is divorce, all ties cut, no contact.   Not mad, just not interested in having anything to do with him.  I will never give him an opportunity to put a wedge in that closing door when it’s time.   I just want him gone for good as soon as it’s possible.   It may be awhile yet but that’s where I’m going.

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2019, 05:21:24 AM »
Well I am with your therapist. Just work on the mental and emotional parts of it first because...well you financially have the upper hand. Packing up and selling will hurt you more than it will hurt him so...hold off. :)

Hi all and thanks for the interesting replies!
Morte,,burn the OW cards, I really would love to except I’m sure h would suspect me instantly if they disappeared.    And then,,, he would think I’m still pining for him and can’t handle the evidence of his ongoing happy R.   I’m not going to lie though,,,the thought has occurred to me to make those cards disappear.  Ever since then, I’ve been trying to figure what that says about ME and I’m sure it’s not exactly complimentary.  So they are still where I found them,,,, for now ::)

You are a stronger woman than I. I had to contain myself not to smash the picture frame in MIL's house with her drawing in it that said ''Best Boyfriend ever''....if something like that was left in MY house well...I got three kids and a dog...and there must have been a rat in the garage...or you know. Something. ;)

What does that say about me? Hmm...guess I got a firey temper when someone blatantly flaunts the pain they caused in my face. I am okay with that.  :)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 05:22:36 AM by Mortesbride »
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Milly

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2019, 03:36:09 PM »
Hi Anon, I'm very happy for you that you are better financially now than ever, and that you are so detached. This is wonderful.

I'm a little bit naughty, because I would burn those OW letters, too. I find it to be a real nerve to leave that stuff where his wife is living. I wouldn't admit doing it, though. I have become a little more sly than I ever was before. The criminal doesn't get my honesty any more. I'm more a tooth for a tooth kind of girl now.

I would throw them in the trash and feign ignorance. After all, haven't the MLCers lost their memories during this crisis? I mean if he really cared about them, he wouldn't leave them in the garage down the road, would he?
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2019, 04:07:28 PM »
Thanks Milly and Morte,  those OW mushy cards don’t bug me like you would think they would.   The stuff in the garage came here on short notice for him.  I doubt he had time to hide them or even think about them being in my garage.   They weren’t exactly sitting on the top of anything either.   ::).   Along with her 4 cards were 2 that I gave him years ago.   They were all mixed up with other weird stuff he kept for whatever reason.   I did have that thought too Milly,,,like if they meant that much to him he wouldn’t have stashed them in a box along with cards from me, where I could find them with no effort.   It doesn’t matter much to me that they are there but I chuckled because 2 of the 4 cards (Xmas & Valentines) are very sexual.   (Stuff about being naughty,,,).  The other 2 are mushy, lovey-Dovey.   I felt a bit voyeurish reading the sexual ones.   

I had an interesting session with my therapist last week.   He knows I’m finished with h but need to eradicate the remaining obsession with him and why this happened.   He says I still have to vent my anger and disappointment in him..  He asked me to do homework about this but I misunderstood and didn’t get the anger part.   So he gave me 5 minutes to write down some anger about him and what he’s done.  To be honest, it didn’t come right away but once I started it came pretty freely 🙂.   He says the venting out loud is very important, then next is compassion for his broken a$$, then forgiveness.   Yes, true forgiveness and then freedom from the obsessive thoughts.   He says unforgiveness and buried anger causes the obsessive thoughts.  I’ve obviously summarized in my own words but this is pretty close.   He also said what happened will probably never make sense to me because what happened had nothing to do with me or the marriage.   He says he’s a long-standing empty and lonely man who is trying to feel something.  ow is part of his attempt to fill the void within him.   The R may work for awhile before failing, but many will try dozens of times to hang on to their ow/om before it eventually fails completely. 

My therapist doesn’t refer to MLC but he describes it like it is without calling it MLC.   Where he differs is in the prognosis.   He believes marriages that successfully reconcile are rare in these instances because they never are able to fill the void but will keep trying in all the wrong ways.

Wow,,,I’m sure there are plenty of examples here of successful reconciliations but they do seem rare compared to the number that don’t reconcile. 

My homework for next session is the same - continue to release pent up emotion by writing it down.  Eventually all these writing will be used to then write a proper letter to h saying goodbye - not to be mailed of course.    I’m not sure how long it will take but I like how it’s going so far.

Offline hopeandfaith

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2019, 08:29:25 PM »
Way to go Anon.  What you described about the therapists approach made sense to me.  I can see that as a logical path through this.  Good luck with your venting!
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D17 and S15

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2019, 01:44:36 AM »
Quote from: Anon
My therapist doesn’t refer to MLC but he describes it like it is without calling it MLC.   Where he differs is in the prognosis.   He believes marriages that successfully reconcile are rare in these instances because they never are able to fill the void but will keep trying in all the wrong ways.

Wow,,,I’m sure there are plenty of examples here of successful reconciliations but they do seem rare compared to the number that don’t reconcile.

I am afraid that your Therapist is correct. My mom is a clinical psychologist and said that reconciliations are VERY rare and usually only occur when the MLC'er has finally learned that they can sooth their own selves and that they do actually have the internal strength and power to do so - she called it a "Road to Damascus" experience for the Mid-Lifer....

Another therapist told an LBS that the Mid-Lifer only will come back if they have totally failed at their replay activities and in finding their illusive "happiness." THAT means that the LBS is a "fall-back option" because nothing else worked so the mid-lifer might as well go back to what was familiar because that is better than being alone... ....

If one trolls the HS archives, there are maybe .... a dozen? reconciliation (true and complete reconciliation) stories, incl.  RCR herself, Stayed and a few others.... out of ... ??? 3000 members past and present?  so, about a 0.5% success rate?
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline sachat3

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2019, 03:26:06 AM »
On the subject of reconciliation I suppose my view is a lot of those that don’t reconcile are more LBS that put the block on it as opposed to the MLCer. I guess that’s why reconciliation is rare is because both parties have to be willing and ready at the same time. And I think a lot of MLCers have done too much damage and the LBS stops “standing” leaving the door open or whatever you wish to call it. 
Me - 27
H - 34
3 children together D2 D5 D7
Together - almost 8 years

BD & MLCer moved out - November 2017
OW discovered - December 2017

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2019, 03:37:29 AM »
On the subject of reconciliation I suppose my view is a lot of those that don’t reconcile are more LBS that put the block on it as opposed to the MLCer. I guess that’s why reconciliation is rare is because both parties have to be willing and ready at the same time. And I think a lot of MLCers have done too much damage and the LBS stops “standing” leaving the door open or whatever you wish to call it.

Or, the LBS is tired of waiting for 7, 9, 10, 13 years for their Mid-Lifer to get their head out of their..... fog.... and has moved on with their lives... If the Mid-Lifer then "comes around" it is too late...
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline sachat3

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2019, 03:52:19 AM »
Exactly! I think if MLC lasted days instead of years there could be more reconciliation stories. But I do think we’re pushed for finding reconciliations that pan out because there comes a point where the LBS thinks “Firetruck this I’m out” and that’s that. There’s a mum at school, her first husband had a MLC and she divorced his ass. Remarried and has a baby with her new husband. Now the first husband is out the dog and wants his family back. Too late pal!
Me - 27
H - 34
3 children together D2 D5 D7
Together - almost 8 years

BD & MLCer moved out - November 2017
OW discovered - December 2017

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2019, 04:11:39 AM »
I think with those kind of numbers we also have to take into account how many of those 3000 just buggered off and quit posting.

You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online RedStar

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2019, 07:43:14 AM »
I think with those kind of numbers we also have to take into account how many of those 3000 just buggered off and quit posting.

True, Morte. And, for all we know, some of their MLCers might have come back at some point and they didn't tell us about it.

There are also posters on a part of this site we can't access if we don't subscribe to it, as well as other places to post about things. I've seen people post on more than one site and also switch from one to another depending on what suits them. (There are probably more groups on Big Blue Brother these days since it aims to be all things to all people...)

In short, once again, there is NO way to compile true stats on this phenomenon, and there may never be.

But the fact that ANY of these people come back at all is pretty astonishing, considering how they all start out. It is surprising how many do try, frankly.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 07:47:34 AM by RedStar »

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2019, 09:05:53 AM »
If there is no reconciliation because the LBS doesn’t want the MLCer back its still a failed marriage.   I wanted my h back for quite awhile and believed he would be back.  Don’t most of us who come here want that when we first come here? 

I do believe most will eventually come out of MLC just like an entitled teenager eventually grows up and becomes a mature, rational adult.   But just like the teenager, it takes years and once an adult, there can be many more years of selfishness and immaturity. 

What’s heartbreaking is the huge percentage of us who hold onto the reconciliation dream when the reality is a huge percentage of marriages do not recover for whatever reason.   Standing for me is too much like waiting and implies limits on what you will do going forward (ie. dating, remarriage).  Many years of standing and denying ourselves all options for our lives is truly a tragedy in the face of such dismal odds. 

The advice to live like they are never coming back is golden.  If you wind up being the exception to those overwhelming odds,,great, but if you are not the exception then at least you didn’t spend years thinking you might be.   








Offline Whyus

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2019, 02:07:33 AM »
What’s heartbreaking is the huge percentage of us who hold onto the reconciliation dream when the reality is a huge percentage of marriages do not recover for whatever reason.   Standing for me is too much like waiting and implies limits on what you will do going forward (ie. dating, remarriage).  Many years of standing and denying ourselves all options for our lives is truly a tragedy in the face of such dismal odds. 
YES YES YES AND firetruckING YES ANON!!!!! We have one shot at life so go and grab it
The advice to live like they are never coming back is golden.
It should be at the top of the page right underneath "The Hero's Spouce"
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. W is actually getting People to accept/Tolerate them.
2 Sons - 19 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline sachat3

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2019, 08:48:43 AM »
No I agree it’s still a failed marriage however I do think it’s different. I think it FEELS different when your the one saying no as opposed to being told no. Kind of like when you say “I never want any more kids” your happy with that mostly until a doctor says “your infertile” and then you feel robbed because the choice is no longer yours.

For me personally I don’t know if I would class me as standing. I live my life my way. And my way of thinking is, Clington is either going to return and it’s going to be amazing because he will be my “the one” OR I’m going to bump into a god like hunk who will be my “the one”. And so either way it’s a positive. If I was in a situation where I met someone who wanted to take me out on a date and I wanted to go on it. Then I sure as hell would go. Just like if I don’t want to. I won’t. And that’s how I see it. So I do think I’m living like he’s not coming back. But I’m also prepared that he may and I may want him to. I’m very much a what’s meant to be will be scenario.
Me - 27
H - 34
3 children together D2 D5 D7
Together - almost 8 years

BD & MLCer moved out - November 2017
OW discovered - December 2017

Offline Rising Phoenix

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2019, 05:27:24 AM »
Attaching anon xx
Me 51
H52
Married still, 22yrs
Together 30yrs
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier. Not yet finalised.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Clinging boomerang for 3 yrs now Vanisher but  twice a yr pops his head up. ow has balls in a vice!

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2019, 10:30:52 AM »
Thx for attaching Phoenix.  You also brought my thread back under my radar so I'll post a quick update.

I still see the therapist but not so frequently.   We are not doing EMDR.   He is an EMDR therapist but says I don't need it.   That's nice to know and says I'm not as PTSD'd as I once was or once thought.   It sure felt like it back when but what were big triggers to PTSD are no longer triggers or mild ones at the most.   For example,, h flying cross country to see ow - that was a huge trigger the entire first year and part way through the 2nd year.   I fell apart knowing that once again he was off to see her for a another clothing free week except for the fine dining in her favorite romantic restaurants.  The pain was excruciating at the beginning but now... after knowing all I know about MLC and what's typical, I see this is just par for the course.   

Last visit with the therapist I told him I was sure there was no remaining anger in me because when I tried to evoke some anger recently, I couldn't.   It was part of the work he asked me to do between sessions so I tried again,,, still nothing so I lost interest and believed I was ready for the next stage of my healing.   So naive of me....  We started talking about compassion, the kind of compassion you find for someone without thinking you need to act on it.   That led to me debating with him why I should feel compassion if he's living the life of his dreams while I'm still working to put my life back together?  How can I feel compassion for him and for what,,if his gamble paid off and he's happy while I was so badly wounded in the early days I wasn't sure I would make it out of that darkness.  Told my therapist I would save my compassion for me and others that have endured the lbs life.  So he says 'then you still have anger'.  I'm thinking,,, fine, then let me have anger instead of this compassion that for him that is supposed to aid my healing?  I left more than a little confused so now I'm trying to dig deeper to figure out this compassion issue and to see if it's true I still have anger that needs to be released.

So yeah,,, I do have anger.   It seems to center around the betrayal more than that he wanted to leave the marriage.   It feels like he kept me in the dark about his lack of feelings until someone came along that he wanted badly enough that he finally jumped ship.   Was I always just a Plan B?   Or when was it I was demoted from Plan A to Plan B?   Was the demotion to Plan B after his MLC started or has it always been there.

I have to admit I still have lot of anger toward h and his ow.   For h, because he was a selfish weak wimp of a man whose morals are lower than the average alley cat.  For ow, because she is just that type that cares only for what she wants.  Because she connived with h to help him out of our marriage, because she claims to be a nice person and probably believes it too.    I could go on but you get the idea... lots of unreleased anger there.

On a final note...those mushy cards that h stored in my garage - I haven't burned them but I've got them somewhere where he will not find them.   Let him scratch his head about what happened to them if he goes to retrieve them one day.   Let him DARE ask me if I had anything to do with their disappearance.   And how DARE he store them in my garage.   So once again,,, lots of anger still left in me.   



Offline Schratz66

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2019, 10:34:06 AM »
Interesting Anon - did your therapist explain what would require EMDR therapy as to what does not ?
Me 52
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2019, 10:43:37 AM »
Not specifically Schratz but probably because I don't present as traumatized or suffering from PTSD.  If I still had extreme reactions to the triggers of the early days, then it might suggest PTSD where EMDR might help.   

Offline Milly

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2019, 03:19:47 PM »
Oh, Anon, you just expressed many of the my own feelings right now. I couldn't have said it better. OMG how awful it is when that anger flares. I'm having a moment right now. All you say about how the affair destroyed you more than your H just leaving, whether you might have always been a plan B, OW conniving with your H to help him destroy his marriage is EXACTLY how I've felt about it all along.

I like the sound of your therapist, and I would have likely had the thoughts you had. I can still get angry so clearly there are still issues, but how can there not be? Thank you for your candor. I have no advice to give you because I've not reached the next step myself yet. But thank you for putting your honest thoughts out there. It makes me feel like I'm not abnormal.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Offline hopeandfaith

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #60 on: June 14, 2019, 04:42:24 AM »
I like your willingness to look at anger again even though you thought you might have dealt with it.  Maybe its like an onion.. many layers. 

I have really only just realised that I have denied my anger.  I think that if I admitted to myself that I was angry, I would have to give up H.  I am interested in your therapist prodding about the anger.  I'd like to see where he goes with it. 

I used to see it as such a bad emotion.  Now I want to make friends with it and I most certainly want to dig up any that I have pushed down and learn to deal with it in a healthy way.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D17 and S15

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #61 on: June 17, 2019, 05:08:20 PM »
I'm fairly certain he will never ask about those lurve letters Anon. I would be surprised if he even remembers they exist. I mean, they were so important that they get stored in the garage after all right?

And I definitely still have anger. I have some compassion too, but I find I have that when I am feeling more detached, which isn't that often. But it does happen every so often. I think anger is one of those emotions that will cycle around the entire time of our healing. Especially if we learn new "details" of their other life. And, like H&F, I think anger is not such a bad thing when channeled properly.
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Sam I Am

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #62 on: June 18, 2019, 10:48:39 AM »
Anon...still following along.  A lot is going on with your.  It is amazing at far you have come recently.  Good for you!  Keep it up!
10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.19 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -29 Married with 2 children  Lives Local
S - 27 Engaged in Prof School across country
3 Dogs (he left them all behind - taking care of them but not really visiting or interacting with them yet)

Online Treasur

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #63 on: June 18, 2019, 10:11:39 PM »
Your IC sounds useful, Anon.
I think some of us turn our anger inwards into depression for a while.
And then bc our MLC spouse simply doesn't care, any anger feels like it has nowhere to go. And perhaps we worry that the anger will unleash something we don't want to do or feel.
But of course, like anything else, it is just a feeling isn't it?
I had very little anger but a LOT of resentment....and in a funny way, my resentment kept me attached after my h was long gone. It fed some assumptions (which may or may not have been true) and it fed my sense of having been a victim I think. I have always rather envied those who have little doubt that their spouse is a miserable mess bc they see it....it is easier with a vanisher to assume the opposite perhaps and I resented the idea that he/ow were happy while I was struggling so much with all the stuff he had run away from. Almost as if my pain had bought his pleasure....which is a bit of a twisted kind of connection really isn't it?  No idea which story was closest to the truth, but the one I got stuck in didn't help me much.

What happened wasn't right or fair and it took us to a kind of hell.
We grieved while apparently they ran and did not.
It's reasonable to feel angry about how we were treated by people we trusted. And to not much want to worry or feel compassion about their invisible pain while we are bleeding out from our own.
With time, my anger did come out a bit...more about the situation actually than aimed at my then h. For him I felt irritation and a kind of distaste and even contempt sometimes particularly as his MLC flavoured divorce unfolded.

Now? Towards him I cycle round distaste, disappointment and disbelief. I have lost respect for him almost entirely I think and the love is well boxed lol. If it pops out, then I feel compassion for who he was and how horrific it would be if he ever wakes up as that kind of person again, like when I read ShockSis.  I'm not sure I believe that bit of the process in my situation though or maybe I just don't believe in 'him' anymore. Which maybe makes/made me more conscious of my losses and doubting that he had lost anything at all bc he no longer valued it or me. I suppose with time it feels as if my memory of the person who loved and valued me so much, who would have been horrified by all of this, has faded. Rationally though I do know that we both were damaged by what happened - I just don't see his only mine - and that erasing 20 years of your own life as worthless is not necessarily an easy thing for any healthy adult to live with long term. And bc our relationship was a close one, if my xh wanted to avoid ever thinking about me, he will have to do a mental skip from 1997-2016 or keep the conversion of it to whatever horror story he believed about our shared life as a terrible mistake he made. I've found my own 'rewrite' struggles a bit hard tbh...no idea how I could sleep at night with his  :)

But as I have slowly started to focus more on my recovery, I have probably also started to take it less personally in a real way and that reduced the resentment. And forgiving myself for my own choices and responses that brought me here and made me more vulnerable to a spouse in crisis. Seeing it as more something that happened as opposed to something he did if that makes sense, a bit futile like shouting at the wind. Having said that, I am sure that if I ever had to interact with him again, some anger and resentment would resurface so perhaps it's good I don't!
« Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 10:41:41 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2019, 11:56:09 AM »
I’ve just proven the theory in my own case at least, that recovery for the lbs is AT BEST, 2 steps forward, 1 back.   Yep,, I’ve had some psychological set-backs lately.

It started off slowly a month or so ago, when I feared that h was going to bring ow to my city for a visit before going to the coast for a mini vacation.    They did this last year and at that time h tried to talk me into switching places to entertain family, but denied ow was coming.   That was a lie so now I don’t trust him.   If I’m right and she’s coming here again this year, I suspect he will try to get her in the house when I’m at work to quickly show it to her.   We have a nice house and it’s all he can show to her since he has lived in cheap rentals since moving out.   He would only want to do this to elevate himself in her eyes somehow.   I don’t know how,,, since it’s not really even his house anymore technically, but she doesn’t have to know that. 

So,,, I didn’t exactly change the locks (legally I can’t) but I added a lock that can be engaged so if I suspect ow is around I can lock him out temporarily.   The only thing to figure out was if she was in town or not.   

H uses a cell phone on my account.   He pays the bill but the account is in my name.   That gives me access to the phone records.   From there I can tell if he’s still calling her where she lives.   Anyway, about a month ago I started looking each day around noon to see if he called her.  If he did then I knew she wasn’t in town.   If there was no call then I would use the second lock.    It’s a bit nutty to do I know, but it’s given me peace of mind when I have to leave the house that they cannot get in if she’s in town.   For this purpose it’s great and tells me what I need to know but overall,,, a really really bad idea.   Looking at stuff like this is pure poison to the lbs….

Looking at the records,,, I’m shocked to see a typical day is 10 - 20 calls made from h to ow starting the second he wakes up and continuing anywhere from every 30 - 90 minutes until about dinner time when they stop.  Rarely any calls after dinner.   The calls continue throughout their work day and total talk time is usually around 90 minutes/day but can reach 3 hours - every day.   If he calls and gets no answer he will try again every 5 minutes or so until he gets through.    None of my business.   It isn’t, and I’m looking way beyond what I need to determine if she’s visiting here or not.   

Surprisingly it upsets me to know this.   Am I not as detached/indifferent as I hoped or thought I was?   Clearly,,, the romance is stronger than ever or maybe I should say the obsession is stronger than ever.   Who talks that much on the phone???   I couldn’t stand that much contact every day for 2 years on the bloody phone?   Don’t they have a life outside of talking on the phone?   Is this what a long distance relationship is or is it what a long distance mlc relationship is?   

So I have mixed feelings about so much right now.   First off,, what the heck is wrong beyond MLC with h?  The obsession seems way beyond MLC behavior.    Is he even in MLC?   My h doesn’t monster, at least not with me.   The worse he gets is indifferent but never rude or nasty.   He always pays what he’s supposed to every month and on time,,, sometimes more.   He comes over to do little acts of service that I generally discourage but even that has been tapering off lately.   From what little I know and from what I have heard he does not run down ow but admits he is crazy about her and thinks she’s every man’s dream.   He dotes on her, pays for everything, does whatever it takes to keep her ‘his’.   The worse thing he ever said about her to me and shortly after bd and before he really took the plunge was that “there’s something ‘off’ about her”, and she is controlling and watches him like a hawk.   I don’t know if he still thinks that now - doubtful.   He is so thoroughly entangled in this r its hard to believe.   From a stable M to this R almost instantly.   

I’ve pretty much known most of this for awhile now and even so, I’ve been able to detach and move on quite nicely.    At first I was in disbelief that this R could go so deep so quick but here we are 2 years later and he is if anything even deeper and not really acting too MLCish anymore.   He still dresses a bit different compared to what he used to but not MLC obviously anymore.    What he does/did doesn’t stop me now from going forward, so why does this obsessive phone calling bug me so much?   She almost never is the initiator of the phone calls either - why does THAT bug me when none of this should?

My blood boils thinking about it.   So much anger.   Is it because he really did get away with what he did to me?  to us?   It sure looks to me like he did.   His insane gamble paid off and I’m furious.   He left me with a million pieces to pick up, assemble and glue back while his gamble paid off and I’m more than a little enraged that he didn’t pay emotionally for what he did.   
I wouldn’t be so furious at him if I really believed he’s a MLC case but lately,,, I can’t help but think he’s not.   

This is a totally irrational rant on my part.  I know I’m way better off than he is in many ways so I should be okay that he seems to have found his better half.   I’m doing well even though it has been a rough 2 years.    My adjustment from married to single hasn’t been super easy but I”ve done okay.   I enjoy my own company and I enjoy choosing exactly what and when I’m going to do something, but to be honest,,, I’m jealous of him - that he is someone’s #1, that someone ‘has his back’ and is his safe place to fall.  He loves someone and is loved back.    I miss all those things a lot at times.   So furious that he got all he has through his ugly betrayal of me.   

Offline Sam I Am

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2019, 12:50:05 PM »
Anon...Is there something in the air?

I just had some insecurities about H and OW that led to me ranting and rambling on my journal.  LOL! 

As for the phone records.....I used to look at the records constantly.  Do you know what I found.   That H called OW and they spoke for long hours.  Like you, I could pinpoint when they were together and when they were not based on call volume.  Ya know what else I did.  I gave myself reason to monkey brain.

Once I weened myself off looking....OMG...I felt so much better.  So much!  So now I don't look.  Am I curious....yes I am!  But I don't like the anxiety I got.  A few weeks ago I caved and looked again and the anxiety I caused myself for hours for a few minute peek was not worth it.

Looking did not move things along.
Looking did not tell me about the substance of the convos.
Looking did not stop the crisis.
Looking did nothing to help me and everything to keep me stuck.

I realize now....it was me trying to keep a last link to H.  I had nothing else.  I let it go.

I understand why you look.  I won't try to dissuade you...you are a grown woman!  You do what is best for you.  I will support you if you try to stop looking.  I'll help in anyway I can but I won't condemn you for looking!  This in essence is your crisis too and you have to figure things out for you too!  You are and will! 
10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.19 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -29 Married with 2 children  Lives Local
S - 27 Engaged in Prof School across country
3 Dogs (he left them all behind - taking care of them but not really visiting or interacting with them yet)

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2019, 01:25:27 PM »
Thanks Sam - I KNOW looking is not good and I haven't really until recently when trying to detect when ow might be in town.   The problem is once I am there to find that much out, I just keep on looking.   Like I said,,, it is pure poison for us lbs!


I just came back from the mailbox and I'm furious all over again!!    Since h left he has continued to use the marital home address for everything.   He hardly gets anything since most is online now but every so often there is something.   Like today.   His ow sent him a birthday card to my (our) address, complete with her return address and swak xxx on the back.  Swak = Sealed with a kiss.    I just called him and told him it was highly inappropriate for her to send this card to the address where I live, knowing I pick up the mail and would see it.   H got a bit defensive saying it wouldn't be from his gf - she wouldn't do that.   I told him the return address and he said yeah, that's her.    I asked him to get his mail redirected and he got ticked saying 'oh come on, it's just one thing and it won't happen again'.  And...'it's already been 2 years', like I shouldn't be bothered in the least by it.   

Seeing that card in my mailbox was a massive trigger - how dare she!  And how dare he defend her.   


Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2019, 02:38:11 PM »
Oh Anon--make NO mistake. That card was not for H. It was for YOU and you alone. She sent that b/c she is feeling insecure. Clearly, 20-30 phone calls a day is a whole lotta crazy.  And likely the result of a lack of trust on both parts. As hurtful as this is, it is actually kind of a good thing b/c it shows everything isn't so great in lala-land.  The cracks are beginning to show. 2 years isn't that long, particularly if they are not living together. And even more particularly when in MLC.


but to be honest,,, I’m jealous of him - that he is someone’s #1, that someone ‘has his back’ and is his safe place to fall.  He loves someone and is loved back.    I miss all those things a lot at times.   So furious that he got all he has through his ugly betrayal of me.   


Oh boy, I could have written every last word! I feel this way all the time! And it sucks. But.....we assume OW has the prior versions of our Hs. And well, she doesn't. Did you ever get 20 phone calls a day? No, b/c that is BAT SH!TE CRAY CRAY!  They are 2 peas in a pod. And she is clearly jealous of you, even though she is the "winner."

Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2019, 03:04:44 PM »
Oh KIT,,, this triggered a horrible reaction in me.   h called to tell me he called her and asked her why she sent it here.    Supposedly she apologized but didn't think it was a big deal but at the same time asked if I was going through his mail?   What??  I collect the mail and there it was.  She's nuts.   I eff'n hate them both right now.   10 days ago they were celebrating the 2nd anniversary since they met.   They are celebrating the beginning of their R when it was another 3 weeks before I knew a thing about what was going on.   All the triggers are in overdrive and killing me.   The insensitivity, cruelty, whatever....   No way I would ever have a married boyfriend but if I did I can't imagine being so cruel to send a xxx swak card to his ex's house knowing she would pick up the mail.   I never want to talk to h again....he's trash, she's trash, never want to see or talk to him again, wish I never knew him.   So unrealistic but if I could have one wish that's what I'd wish.   >:(

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2019, 03:45:47 PM »
I totally get it. Of course they are cruel--they are selfish children with no regard for anyone else's feelings.  I hear ya, I get extremely angry when I think about things too. Hugs friend. You didn't deserve any of that.

And also, WHO sends BDay cards in the mail to their boyfriend????  I mean, above the age of 12?

Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Online Treasur

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #70 on: June 19, 2019, 03:48:06 PM »
First of all, and most importantly, how you feel is completely justifiable. It was a s$itty action and a s$itty response from your h.
I wish I had been with you bc tbh the card would have 'accidentally' been shredded with junk mail... ;D

Now, with love from the cheap seats, I want to show you the facts and the lesson. Bc that will be more useful to you...well, after I completely grant you permission to punch an inanimate soft object or draw a moustache on an old photo of your h  ;)

Welcome to triangulation in action.
Ow sent the card to your address. With external teenage SWALK and her return address. What, she doesn't have an address for where your h actually lives? And he doesn't have her address? After 2 years of hours of phone calls every day?  ::)...nope, it was intended for you to see and to get a reaction. Part 1 of the triangle....
So you contacted your h...angry and upset...he defends her....part 2 of the triangle
Then he contacts ow...blah blah, she defends herself and blames you for looking at the post that comes to YOUR house, blah blah your w is horrid to shout at you, she is a mad woman bc 'our love is real' etc etc...part 3 of the triangle.
The triangle story ends with you feeling angry and violated, your h getting a high from the drama with a side order of victim blaming you for being angry and ow (who started the whole thing) gets to play victim AND rescuer. And if she's lucky, you will stay angry with your h and have some more good fights about it...

And next time you will see it and refuse to play....

This is not normal adult behaviour, my friend.
And the phone calls? Yup, not normal either for grown ups who y'know need to work and have friends and do grown up s$it. Teenagers act this way bc they have plenty of time and few responsibilities and teenagers like drama. Your assumptions about the phone calls are blinding you to the fact that it is obsessive, immature and possibly controlling....this is not a healthy pair of grown ups in a healthy secure relationship.

And looking at the phone calls in order to know where ow is in order to know if you should secure your home....I get anxiety, I do...but imho there are other options. Oh dear, look, you lost your keys in Starbucks and had to have an emergency locksmith but haven't seen your h to give him a new key. Oh well ::) Or bc he hasn't been around, you forgot to tell him about the new alarm system... ::) :) Or the Rottweiler you are looking after for a friend  :)

Both of them are trash right now. But as my gran used to say, one should never mud wrestle with pigs bc they like it and you just get muck on your dress  :)
Once your justifiable and understandable desire to punch them both in the face eases, please see this as a free gift lesson to step away from the crazy nasty folks and their drama. You are worth a life without this kind of nonsense. And it's ok to find elegant subtle ways to show what FU looks like when a grown up with a life does it. Jmo. Xxxx

And a PS...please don't be cross with yourself for accidentally tripping into the triangle. These are the home turf of disordered people and as a sane normal adult, unfamiliar to us. Like a foreign language. So your reaction was normal...but you are not dealing with normal folks.  :)
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 03:59:11 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #71 on: June 19, 2019, 04:39:20 PM »
Oh, so that's triangulation.   I can't say this has happened before though.  So why now after 2 years?    My original thought was to act and say nothing about it and just carry on.    So why didn't I?   Kicking myself now, but seriously I don't know if I can stomach talking to him anytime soon.   If I refuse to and enforce text or email communication, does that give her what she wants?  or him?   Play further into their drama?  Ack,,,, this is such bs stuff.

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2019, 06:38:29 PM »
This next question may be part of my over reaction to the earlier events of today, but I have mused about this for awhile anyway.  It's a legal question.   

I'm in Canada in a part of the country where the housing market is dead or next to it.   There is some optimism for the future 1 - 3 years out depending on what our new provincial government does and what our (hopefully) new federal govt does in the next election in October this year.   If all goes well the housing market here may revive and recover.   

For me,,, it means h and I hang onto our 2 joint property homes especially since he won't agree to sell anything right now in the hopes things will improve significantly.    It's a stupid financial decision on his part because it could take a few years and in the meantime he is paying me 1/2 mort and expenses to stay invested in a house that he currently has zero equity in (thanks to my prenup).   That could change if the market improves and he may wind up with something - not much - and not enough to offset the monthly payments he makes to me to stay invested, so it makes no sense, but whatever....   Only thing is I can't cut him loose and get a quick and cheap uncontested divorce.   

I could hire a lawyer to get the ball rolling but that means instead of paying $1000 for the uncontested divorce (prenup makes it easy), I'm going to pay,,, I dunno,,, maybe $10 - 15k to a lawyer if I'm lucky just to force the sale of the houses or to force a buy out to get him off the titles.   That amount of money is worth a few travel trips for someone who has acquired the travel bug and I'm not sure I am ready to shell that out when $1000 will do if I'm patient.

The problem with being patient is it gives h a reason to contact me and involve me in his drama.   His first wife had to tell him not to call her again because he was always calling her about non-issues and making it appear that they were issues when they weren't.   He's doing that to me too,,, with my SD (his daughter), who I have a close relationship with.  After the latest bs today, I am craving a divorce even if I can't sell the properties right now. 

I am disgusted and repulsed by this man and his ow, and after today I want to end the marriage.  Is there a way to do that and remain joint owners (not tenants in common) until a more favorable housing market returns to this province?  Or is it always going to be a cart before the horse scenario?   I just can't stand the thought of being married to this moron anymore and it's killing me to think I have to wait 2 -3 years before I can get it over and done with.   

KIT, I know you are in a different country but can you comment at all whether this might be possible?  Or any other legal types that might know how that works in Canada?

« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 06:45:32 PM by Anon »

Offline Milly

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #73 on: June 19, 2019, 11:55:08 PM »
Dear Anon, sorry can't comment on the law there as you know where I live. It might be worth investing in a one off visit to a lawyer just to know where you stand, and then you make your decisions accordingly.

My first suggestion would be not to be thinking of doing anything major such as D or selling properties as a reaction to the card event. Never make big decisions when you're low. So in your personal interest, the answer would be no to both right now.

As far as paying a L 10-15000 just to get rid of your H, or have him stop contacting you, or for you to be able to show him you're done, I would not do that. It's a waste of money. And if you think dealing with a non-monster, paying MLCer is difficult, wait until you start getting lawyers involved and force him to sell and D. You will never hear the end of it.

I'm so sorry about the card and I agree with Kit, she did it on purpose because that's what these lowlife pathetic OW are like. I would have returned to sender if I were you. However, this behaviour would cause me to go complete NC with your H. Any communication you have to have with him would be on the 'only what's absolutely necessary' kind. Sending the card to your home was inconsiderate and hurtful. But beware of feeding the drama she's challenged you to. She likes to have the threesome where she feels she's winning. Just like the teenage stupid pretty girl who gets the jock and then has to feel that others want her jock too, otherwise maybe she doesn't want him either.

I would have written on the card 'Return to sender,' and 'you can have him, I'll even throw in a free case of wine.'

Regarding the checking the phone logs, guilty here, too. I haven't done it in 2 years though because it hurt. What hurt was the feeling that she got so much of my h's attention. That my H was happy to speak to her constantly. Same stuff by the way, tons of texts to OW. The fact that she doesn't instigate them means nothing. They are like cult leaders: they set the rules and sit back and watch the prey tangle themselves up in the net.

And by the way, your H saying 'there's something off about OW...she's controlling.....watching him like a hawk,' tells you it's not a normal relationship. Would you ever go out with someone you knew had something off about them? And this is how you know they are having a MLC.

Your H bringing OW to your town is what they do. I tried to stop my H doing this the first year after BD but it only caused tons of drama, which OW loved, and brought H closer to her to protect her against big bad Milly. In the end I had to accept that she would be around. I avoid places they might be when she's in town.

Anon, you will get through this cycle. Try to wean yourself off looking at the phone log, etc. I suggest that when you leave your house for more than a day, you use your extra lock. If your H were to make any legal complaint about it, say you were worried you'd lost your spare set of keys and that someone could have found them. Is there any way you can set up a camera to watch if he comes and goes when you're not around? There are some really cheap ones online these days and you can watch from your cell phone.

Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Online Treasur

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #74 on: June 20, 2019, 12:24:26 AM »
Milly is right. Never make any important decision that affects your wellbeing in the emotional aftermath of something like this. Fwiw I would do nothing, let your emotions settle, have NC with your h for a bit and then look at with a calmer mind.

Sounds as if there are two issues, an emotional one and a financial/legal one. If you don't want contact with your h, you can control that by refusing to engage other than via something like email. You have the right to say no, not now or only in this way. Truly you do. And if he is an MLCer who wants to contact you, imho a divorce won't change him trying to do so.

On the legal/financial stuff as Milly says, it would be best to talk to a L and see what your options are.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline hopeandfaith

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2019, 12:46:56 AM »
Firstly, well done on getting the extra lock.  On the back of looking at the phone records, I am not surprised that you reacted the way that you did over the card so cut yourself some slack.  I would have done the same...possibly worse.  Silly child shouldn't write her address on documents going to the wife!!  Maybe she is hoping to set a trap IDK  ::)  Anyhoo, you know for next time.  Card?  What card?  Maybe she spelled the street name wrong??

I agree with the others about cooling your heels for a minute in regards to the divorce.  The whole no contact and divorce thing also plays completely into ow's hands (or at least she thinks it does).  In reality, a divorce is where your H potentially starts to realise that his insane gamble did not in fact pay off.  It def looks like MLC to me and I don't think ow will get more sane over the passage of time.  He has just delayed his hell. 

How do you know that he is the initiator of the calls?  Perhaps they are speaking to each other twice as much as you can see.  How crazy would that be?

Loved Treasur's explanation of the triangle!
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D17 and S15

Offline Nerissa

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #76 on: June 20, 2019, 12:56:02 AM »
First of all, and most importantly, how you feel is completely justifiable. It was a s$itty action and a s$itty response from your h.
I wish I had been with you bc tbh the card would have 'accidentally' been shredded with junk mail... ;D

Now, with love from the cheap seats, I want to show you the facts and the lesson. Bc that will be more useful to you...well, after I completely grant you permission to punch an inanimate soft object or draw a moustache on an old photo of your h  ;)

Welcome to triangulation in action.
Ow sent the card to your address. With external teenage SWALK and her return address. What, she doesn't have an address for where your h actually lives? And he doesn't have her address? After 2 years of hours of phone calls every day?  ::)...nope, it was intended for you to see and to get a reaction. Part 1 of the triangle....
So you contacted your h...angry and upset...he defends her....part 2 of the triangle
Then he contacts ow...blah blah, she defends herself and blames you for looking at the post that comes to YOUR house, blah blah your w is horrid to shout at you, she is a mad woman bc 'our love is real' etc etc...part 3 of the triangle.
The triangle story ends with you feeling angry and violated, your h getting a high from the drama with a side order of victim blaming you for being angry and ow (who started the whole thing) gets to play victim AND rescuer. And if she's lucky, you will stay angry with your h and have some more good fights about it...

And next time you will see it and refuse to play....

This is not normal adult behaviour, my friend.
And the phone calls? Yup, not normal either for grown ups who y'know need to work and have friends and do grown up s$it. Teenagers act this way bc they have plenty of time and few responsibilities and teenagers like drama. Your assumptions about the phone calls are blinding you to the fact that it is obsessive, immature and possibly controlling....this is not a healthy pair of grown ups in a healthy secure relationship.

And looking at the phone calls in order to know where ow is in order to know if you should secure your home....I get anxiety, I do...but imho there are other options. Oh dear, look, you lost your keys in Starbucks and had to have an emergency locksmith but haven't seen your h to give him a new key. Oh well ::) Or bc he hasn't been around, you forgot to tell him about the new alarm system... ::) :) Or the Rottweiler you are looking after for a friend  :)

Both of them are trash right now. But as my gran used to say, one should never mud wrestle with pigs bc they like it and you just get muck on your dress  :)
Once your justifiable and understandable desire to punch them both in the face eases, please see this as a free gift lesson to step away from the crazy nasty folks and their drama. You are worth a life without this kind of nonsense. And it's ok to find elegant subtle ways to show what FU looks like when a grown up with a life does it. Jmo. Xxxx

And a PS...please don't be cross with yourself for accidentally tripping into the triangle. These are the home turf of disordered people and as a sane normal adult, unfamiliar to us. Like a foreign language. So your reaction was normal...but you are not dealing with normal folks.  :)

Print this in pretty colours, frame it and stick it on the fridge!

If you make a premature, emotional decision to sell the house you’ll suffer from doubt later on  so wait a bit.  Then think through with your IC about the financial loss v the emotional cost of keeping/selling.

I’d go to contact via email only.  It’s more formal and controlled and creates emotional space. Between you.

It has occurred to me before that you are kind - allowing silly old cards from ow to stay in your garage for example.  Burn them.  Get all reminders away.    If he isn’t living with you he doesn’t need easy access.  Think about using the additional
Lock all the time or changing them.  In this country, I believe once a spouse has been gone for six months, they no longer have a right to just walk in your house.  Your mental health matters and I don’t see any court punishing you after the treatment you are receiving.  What is anyone going to do?  Make you give him a set of keys is the worst I imagine?  You need, for your mental health, to have a safe home. 

Checking phone records will keep you tied to him.  It is your tenacious attachment system not wanting to let go and malfunctioning.  It’s probably also hypervigilance.  It’s an addiction and doesn’t serve you in the end.  I know - I used to track H via his cashless card spending and it kept me hooked. When a friend told me to stop, life got better.

When you get a bit of distance you will see how dysfunctional these idiots are and what a huge boost the relationship gets out of baiting a reaction from you.  You will also see that they pull you into dysfunction too.  It isn’t easy to get out when we feel so threatened so think of how to make yourself feel safe from threat and do those things.  If another card comes, burn it. 
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 12:57:21 AM by Nerissa »

Online Treasur

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #77 on: June 20, 2019, 01:16:49 AM »
Oh, so that's triangulation.   I can't say this has happened before though.  So why now after 2 years?    My original thought was to act and say nothing about it and just carry on.    So why didn't I?   Kicking myself now, but seriously I don't know if I can stomach talking to him anytime soon.   If I refuse to and enforce text or email communication, does that give her what she wants?  or him?   Play further into their drama?  Ack,,,, this is such bs stuff.

When you feel calmer, and maybe chat it over with your IC, I hope you will realise that what he wants/feels or what ow does is not the right question. It is about doing what is best for you regardless of what anyone else is doing or feeling. But when you feel understandably emotional, it is hard to pick that out from the noise...but you'll get there, my friend.

If it helps...if you have followed my story, you might remember (after much thought) that I broke NC after about 9 months to send my xh a simple unemotional happy birthday text bc it was a special birthday. In response a few days later I got an unpleasant text from ow, essentially telling me that she was speaking for him and I was a worthless nothing who should go away...or if it was important I could ask her permission to relay info to my xh. Yup, all normal people will now go  ::)  :o

Now all of us could speculate about his role in that, why she did it, what it says about him/her/their relationship.....and it was yucky to receive. I had a bunch of choices, and did have some pretty snarky responses to him/her in my head. And I knew that if I went back to NC, owife would feel she had a 'win' and scared me off lol.

But here is the thing. I had only ever intended to send a small birthday message and then go back to NC. I chose NC for me for good reason, for my sanity and recovery. And her message reinforced my perception that he/she/their marriage is not very pleasant, adult or similar to mine with my then h. Oh and that she is spiteful and can't spell! Her/his response was frankly weird and disproportionate. Imagine the kind of conversation one would have to lead up to her texting me like that...either he is a victim of an evil xw sending mind viruses by saying 'happy birthday from me' and asks her to rescue him bc y'know he can't ignore it or respond himself? Or some kind of control game where she reads his texts and sends me the msg but he knows nothing maybe? Is he a weak fool? Is she threatened by me? Was it triggered by some argument they had? Who knows....but is is disordered BS and not how grown ups behave. But not my circus, not my m. Pause for a moment and think of all the many other rational healthy responses available to her and him.....and then at the response he/she chose. After 9 months of NC with xh, not seen him since late 2016, didn't contest his divorce, not spoken to him in over a year (after he sent the police round bc I didn't respond to his texts for 3 days lol),  when I have never contacted her despite her best prodding efforts, when they were in the first year of their 'twu luv' marriage....

It was a clear invitation to play a triangle game...nope, not playing. I gain nothing from the triangle bc it isn't set up to serve me...it is for her or him or both. And my ego is just fine if ow or xh would to prance around believing that they 'won' somehow...bc I know why I sent the text and I know that it was always intended to be a kind one of acknowledgement of the man my h used to be for two decades who was much loved and is missed by me and his old friends.

My feelings of anger at his/her nastiness could have made me respond with more contact....but that was never my original plan. So, I forwarded the text to my L's file with some of the other nasty messages just in case, deleted it, blocked her number and went on my way. It did take me a couple of days to shake off the yuk and the anger and the frustration feelings...but they passed bc I kept reminding myself that I have no place for crazy nasty BS people in my life. Didn't before, don't now...all that changed was my h became one and married another.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 01:25:53 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Enyo

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #78 on: June 20, 2019, 02:50:04 AM »
Hi Anon

Completely understand your anger but I agree with Treasur and Nerissa that your H was not the intended recipient of the message on the outside of card - that was solely for you and I absolutely agree it was a means to drag you into their soap opera, obviously she needs more drama to keep the spark alive.

Good idea Treasur's to lose your keys and have to change the locks though - anything to stop you monitoring his movements, which keeps you attached and ultimately ruins your day!

BTW why would he be showing her your home.  It is not as if she would ever get to live in it as it would be sold as part of a divorce settlement.  If seeing it builds up her expectations of a lovely, well financed, life in the end then just imagine how she will feel when that particular dream is dashed.

As to you filing and selling the house, why? - You enjoy living there and he is paying half the morgage which means less money to spend on OW - which is always a bonus!  Ask yourself if you were divorced and living in another house would you feel any different / better - probably not.  Don't be pushed on when / if you eventually file, make sure that your decision is a considered one, taken on a stable emotional foundation, serves your best interest and is done at the right time for you.  There's really no rush and you don't need the extra hassle whilst you are on your travels.

Enyo X 

Me 60
MLCer 58
M37 years, Together 39 years
S27 & S26
BD Aug/Sept 15
Moved Out Aug16

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #79 on: June 20, 2019, 06:05:12 AM »
Thanks guys for those comforting responses.   I will respond more in detail later.   Not sure when because today is packed with work, then after work I have a coffee date.   Not sure if I’m ready for it but it’s just a coffee date so I’ll see.    I’ll do my best to reply more in detail sometime today because there is much more I want to say.  In the meantime, you guys are the best!  I do feel somewhat better after a nights sleep but I am still a bit rattled.   Nothing like this has ever happened before in 2 years so it was like a new blindside/bd because it was so unexpected.   Tbh,,, I’m a bit surprised I let it get to me this much instead of just shrug it off.  Tells me something about where I am emotionally I suppose.   Have a great day and more later. 🙂
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 06:06:13 AM by Anon »

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #80 on: June 20, 2019, 09:28:17 AM »
Sending hugs Anon. Legally yes, you have options. But I agree with everyone else in that you should absolutely wait on any decision for the time being, especially if you are thinking of doing these things simply to rid yourself of your MLCer. THAT I think is something HE likely won't allow and will try to make things difficult for you.

The triangulation thing is strange. I received a photo from H while he was on vacation with S12 a couple months ago. It was a photo of S12 and OW's son. I wasn't aware he would be on the trip. And no way would H have ever sent it. But clueless me assumed he did and I let him have it. It was a visceral response, like yours, to an incredibly cruel thing to do. I now realize that OW must have sent it. And I played right into her evil plans. Oh well. Lesson learned. It is the only way I learn unfortunately--by my mistakes.

Anyway, I'm sorry this happened. But really, this shows the utterly childish and reckless nature of their relationship, if you even want to call it that. SMAK--I mean seriously? I am mortified for this person.

Alright, pick yourself up, dust off the OW stank, adjust your crown and get on with it girl.  You are the queen and always will be. OW isn't even the jester.
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #81 on: June 21, 2019, 07:46:11 AM »
Last night, after a very long and tiring day, I worked on a detailed reply to all the great posts I received about the recent drama in my life.   Then I lost it and almost cried.   I couldn’t handle starting over again and had to go to bed.  I have a short bit of time this morning to post before I have to get ready for work and get through another long day.

So last night,,,, I ventured into the world of online dating and had my first coffee ‘date’.   It was a complete bust.   He got lost finding the coffee place and was 15 min late.   That left only 45 minutes before the coffee place closed.  Perfect.  He was polite and respectful but there was so little common ground that there was really nothing left to say.  I expect this will happen more often than not.   Another coffee get together tonight with someone else.  He looks promising - loves to travel, plays golf, nice pic.   A big old red flag though,,, he loves his Porsche.  Immediately, I think MLC?  So we’ll see.   I wonder if I’m ready for this stuff.   I would like some male company at times but not all the time.   A travel companion would be nice too - with someone easy going.  Looking for friendship but not romance.  If it develops fine, but not going to search for it.   Overall?  Am I ready for this?  I really don’t know.  It seems harmless at the moment but it’s only about coffee right now.  All I know is there is some room in my life for a casual friendship, nothing more and my profile says so.   

I have not talked to h since the day I received the birthday card.   He’s on a guys golf trip for a few days but I suspect when he returns he will be calling me to see if I am still mad about the card.  I’d put money on it.  It will take some strength to not take the bait.  I still have a feeling of disbelief - that she thought it was no big deal and so did he since “it’s been 2 years already”.   I know it was a deliberate antagonist action on her part to create drama.   No other explanation for sending it here - and then when confronted by h about it, she accuses me of going through his mail - to take the heat off herself and put it on me.   So I’ll not bite at all.   

I plan to go NC or as close to it as I can get.  I don’t need him over here doing acts of service and I don’t need casual chitchat either.   I’ve never been keen on that but I’ve done it to keep the peace and ensure his cooperation with my agenda regarding our joint assets.   There is no purpose to that now.   I’ll buy him out or sell tomorrow if he’s willing.   I’ve wondered at times if his reluctance to sell has anything to do with maintaining some connection to his old life.  If so,,me engaging in any kind of cordiality with him might just feed that.   So that has to end so that reason for hanging on is gone.   I could be wrong and maybe it is all about hanging on because it’s a smart financial move,,,except it’s not a smart financial move.   He’s paying me almost 1|2 the mortgage and expenses for a house he has almost no equity in.   Doesn’t matter what the market does in the future,, this is just dumb on his part to hang on and keep paying me.   

The locks on the house.   It cost me $135 to change the lower locks on two entrance doors to have the option to lock him out.  To rekey all the locks now to one key will cost $185.   So that has to wait - money is leaving my account in bagfuls for other things that are more important (travel stuff, mostly).   So I’ll engage both locks whenever I’m worried.   My sd told me the dates when ow is here (just a few) so once she is here and gone I can relax again.   He doesn’t ever just walk in here.  The only reason he might want in when she is here is to show her how nice the house is that he used to live in.  He has nothing else to show her to impress her.   She might not even care but he may need to show her that he wasn’t always a total loser and did own a nice house once upon a time.  And,,, I might be completely wrong about him attempting to get her in.    So for now,,I can handle the lock situation as it is. 

Phone records,,, done.   I’ve always believed looking has been a bad idea and I know the peace that comes from not looking and the misery that comes from looking.   It’s a no brainer decision.   

Thanks for the insight you have all provided me.   I learned a lot.  Triangulation would be fascinating in a morbid way if it wasn’t so painful to be part of it.   I’m convinced my h is a full blown narcissist and they love the drama from this, don’t they?

Anyway,,,I have to get going and get ready for work.  Have a great day and a wonderful weekend!

Anon
xo



Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #82 on: June 21, 2019, 08:53:04 AM »
Well from my humble third party opinion...reading your entire post...I would say the answer to

  Am I ready for this? 

would probably be no. By all means go out and date and seek out a guy if that is what you are ready for but...I get the feeling you are doing it to soothe yourself more than to find company. Any relationships started now will be for the wrong reasons with the wrong person. A plastership if you will (relationship plaster). It isn't a good thing in the long run, though it may soothe you in the short term.

That's just my take on it. :)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline heroIam

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #83 on: June 21, 2019, 08:57:26 AM »
I'd have to agree with Mortesbride here Acorn.

If you are asking yourself if you are ready, than you aren't.   ;)
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline Acorn

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #84 on: June 21, 2019, 09:00:40 AM »
I'd have to agree with Mortesbride here Acorn.

If you are asking yourself if you are ready, than you aren't.   ;)

Don’t tell my H I’m dating, with us reconnecting and all!
Just joking.  You are not the first one to get us mixed up.
Live-in MLCer
Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #85 on: June 21, 2019, 09:48:41 AM »
Quote
If you are asking yourself if you are ready, than you aren't.   ;)

Thanks Mort & Hero.   I’m not sure I’m ready but seriously though,,,I’ve always been super cautious and might wonder this even if I’d never married and gone thru the lbs hell so I can’t say I’m not ready just because I wonder if I am.   If I’m not ready then I need more evidence of it from other things,,not just that I wonder.   

Seeking to be soothed?  Partially perhaps.   A movie or an evening out once in a while wouldn’t satisfy a need to be soothed and I’d be searching for much more than a friendship, which I’m not.  I just want to get back to a normal life and normal living which means turning my h into my xh, and spending time with normal people doing things that normal people do.   I'm good at applying brakes to a situation if it’s not right for me.  At least I used to be and still hope I am.😜

Offline heroIam

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #86 on: June 21, 2019, 10:44:57 AM »
oh jeez.  sorry..... :-[
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #87 on: June 21, 2019, 10:56:27 AM »
I may have accidentally given my number to a guy at a winery a couple weeks ago....after a bottle or 3. He started texting me and I FREAKED out. LOL. So yeah, I know I'm not ready. It is especially strange to do these things after we've been with our supposed "person" for so long. Which makes me realize how crazy MLC is since most seem to settle into a kind of "married" life with the OP's almost immediately.

Anyway, I get it Anon. I always think of a line from When Harry Met Sally .... "You had a date for national holidays!"  B/c now we don't. And it does make me sad and lonely. It is a tough process--no doubt about it! Tuscany will help. ;)
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #88 on: June 22, 2019, 06:11:19 PM »
Ahh, KIT,,, Tuscany - it will help huge!  I can’t wait to meet the cult  ;D.

Last night I went on date #2,,well coffee date #2, and I loved it!  I felt so normal, enjoying a lively conversation with an intelligent man who was relaxed, who smiled, and who revealed that he enjoyed our ‘date’ as much as I did.   We have a lot in common and I really enjoyed his company.  We like to do similar things in our leisure time as well.    Will it continue?  Idk,,,but we have tentative plans to meet again end of next week.  It would have been sooner but I am swamped with commitments until then.   He seemed disappointed.   I’m trying not to get too far ahead of things but I hope find enough commonality to be friends if nothing else.  I did tell him just friends and he seemed okay and not the type to be pushy for more. 

I have scarcely given h a thought lately and when I have it’s to marvel at the contrast between his personality and the normal guy’s personality.   Night and day.   It’s so refreshing to spend a bit of time with someone who seems normal as opposed to MLC-ish.

I’m aware that we are all on our best behaviour when we first meet and my opinions could do a drastic turn around but ,,,, that feeling of having a normal conversation with a normal guy about normal things is nothing short of miraculous for me. 

As far as h goes,,, no guilt or hesitation no nothing holding me back from this forward move.   Today I blocked his calls.   He can text or email but I am done talking to him.  It’s sick how he’s dragged me back in emotionally over and over in the past by just not leaving me alone.  ow can have his sorry a$$,   He’s the last person I care to spend even one more minute with.   And,,,, haha,,(Milly),,she (ow)  can have him and I’ll even toss in a case of wine!!   Actually,, I can’t WAIT to use that line when the opportunity arises,,,and it will.   

Enjoy the weekend you guys, or what’s left of it for the UKer’s and EUer’s 🙂

« Last Edit: June 22, 2019, 06:26:11 PM by Anon »

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #89 on: June 22, 2019, 09:42:05 PM »
What the heck and does the craziness never end?   My SD told me tonight that the last time she talked to her dad he raged at her over the phone, screaming so loud into the mouthpiece that she couldn’t make out any words.  Just pure rage.  And over her saying she couldn't meet ow when she’s here next week because it’s traditionally when she and the family head out of town to visit her mother (long weekend).  SD doesn’t have the least bit of interest in meeting this woman and doesn’t want to scrap seeing her mother to do so.   But h decides she’s not going to get out of it 2 years in a row because then ow might take the refusal ‘personal’.  That’s what the incoherent raging was about. 

I guess she gave in and will sacrifice seeing her mom to meet the ow.   Not because she wants to but because she is tired of getting ‘monster’ from her dad.   She was upset and told him she was seeing a therapist because of the conflicts with him.   When she told him this he let out a mean laugh and says ‘so you have daddy issues now?’    No empathy or compassion,,,just sarcasm.   She says it’s nothing new lately.  He truly is a monster this man.  Ugly to right down to his selfish core.  And why the horrible rage?  Talk about losing control - wow 😮

I have managed to avoid monster by staying clear for the most part.   I’ve never seen h rage like this at me or anyone before or after bd.  But his poor daughter can’t avoid him because she must meet ow and he’s been pressuring her since day 1 to do so.   I know her well.  H may wish he didn’t force this introduction because SD doesn’t plan to be friendly.   Not rude but not friendly.  No,,,”so happy to finally meet you ow”.  Oh no,, SD will go for maximum discomfort without being rude but make them both squirm and wish they had left her alone.   

From what Ive seen lately,,I’d guess things are starting to really unravel and pick up speed in Lalaland.   Time for me to take a long vacation - I’ve already been through my own explosion - don’t need to see theirs.  It’s just ,,,my heart is breaking for my SD because she has lost her father to MLC.

Online Treasur

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #90 on: June 22, 2019, 11:57:09 PM »
I'm glad that your coffee#2 was a nice reminder of normal  :)

I'm sorry for your SD. Of course - and I guess this is something she will probably learn - she should stick to her plans rather than let the monster bully her. Bc it won't stop with one feeding. But much as you empathise, it is her choice and not your responsibility. And tbh potentially another triangle for you to stay emotionally detached from as you say.  The rage though is a reminder that this is not and never was about you my friend. And that it is not normal behaviour for a sane decent adult.

As you say too...a nice long vacation from other people's lives is just what you need  :) (and haven't you picked yourself up well and pretty quickly from the card debacle!)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
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Offline Milly

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #91 on: June 23, 2019, 12:15:01 AM »
Anon, everything Treasur said!

First, I'm glad you're enjoying going for coffee and meeting men for a male friendship or whatever. You have learned a lot since BD, I'm sure you'll know how to watch for those clues in people we missed the first time. Plus, you know you can go it alone, so any less than good sensations in a new man, and I'm sure you wouldn't give him your time. So have fun with that.

Your raging H. Well, what a jerk. I agree with Treasur, SD should stick to her commitment with her mother and not let the bully get away with it, but it's SD's lesson to learn. I did see this terrible rage in my H the 2 years before BD. He looked like he had fire coming out of his mouth. Imagine that you get yourself into this state to please an OW who will give you hell if you don't force your children to meet her and hang out with her? My H did the same with my S. I forbade it. OW got H to sue me for not letting H see his S. Judge threw it out. H had fights every time he got together with S over it. Two years later, H gave up.

Have a lovely Sunday.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #92 on: June 23, 2019, 01:46:21 PM »
Treasur,,, so true,,, recovered nicely from the card debacle and it's not taken any more headspace from me.  And, I am prepared to shut it down if h tries to bring it up again. 

Milly,,, I remember reading something ow and your son on another thread.   Why do these ow insist?  Don't they wonder if they are vilified because of what they have done to these kids?  Why push it?  Or maybe it's our h's that push it and the ow really don't care much either way.  They only make waves (legal, etc) just because they like to rattle the lbs.   

My SD agreed to meet ow before the weekend with her mom was planned.   She said her dad planned this ow visit as soon as the one last year was over and she agreed way back then.   Then forgot all about it and what weekend it was even planned for.   When it turned out it was the special weekend with her mom she tried to get out of it.    She eventually agreed because he held her to her original word to meet her, one year ago.    All I can say is this insistence that she cancel all to meet ow is only going to pile more resentment onto ow.   She already dislikes her intensely because she is a low-life that will mess with a married man,,and will even send xxx cards to his W's house.    And now,,, giving up seeing her mom and deny-ing her mom her company and the opportunity to see her grandkids because she has to meet ow is going to make SD feel sick.   
   

 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 01:49:15 PM by Anon »

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #93 on: June 24, 2019, 02:46:38 AM »
Well, if MLCH is going off on SD, it is a good thing you blocked his calls.... Written communication is admissible...

And, of course, he is enraged that SD picked her mom over the ADOW.... Sounds like he is really doing his best to destroy the R with his D though...  and that is 100% his responsibility.  Maybe OW SHOULD take it personally.... After all, she is banging a married man....

As for his comment  to her "having Daddy Issues now." I'm thinking the appropriate response might be "No, just a$$hole issues."
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
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Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #94 on: June 25, 2019, 03:50:10 PM »
Well,,, just like I predicted h calls me today (a couple of days after his golf trip) for another flimsy, ridiculous reason. 

So ow is flying in Saturday morning and then Sunday they are leaving for a 2 week road trip to other parts of the country.   His call today is to ask if I would mind if he came over one night this week to use the shop vac in my driveway to vacuum out his car.   Yes,,, I would mind.   Are you kidding me?   So he can spiff up his car for the ow?   In my driveway???  Who is this crazy nut?   Sheez.

We have not divided any property yet so the shop vac belongs to both of us.   So, denied his request and told him to pick it up and throw it in the back of his SUV (lots of room), and take it to where he lives and vacuum his car in the driveway there - it's 5 blocks away for crying out loud.  Isn't that what a normal person would think to do right off?  Say:  "Hey,, okay if I borrow your shop vac and I'll bring it back later tonight?"   Instead MLC nut wants to use my driveway to get his car (my old car) ready for a road trip with ow.  The insensitivity is mind boggling.   And actually, the shop vac is an old pos and wouldn't  do a good job.   The smart person would just use the vacuums provided at the car wash. 

It occurred to me that he might  be testing the warmth of the water with me (not very warm) after last week's birthday card scandal.  If he just went to the car wash to use the vac then he wouldn't have a reason to call me. 

My challenges these days are to not show him how much his little mind games bother me.   And to keep him from calling me.   The phone block I use still takes a voicemail and allows texts.    Next time I'll just text him when I get a voicemail and say "what the h@ll do you want now?"

 

 

« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 03:54:46 PM by Anon »

Offline Milly

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #95 on: June 25, 2019, 11:47:53 PM »
Totally insensitive, Anon. They just can't put 2 +2 together. It's almost as your H wants you to join in with his excitement at his road trip with OW. I can understand your frustration.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #96 on: June 26, 2019, 12:18:25 AM »


The fog thick in that one is.....
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #97 on: June 26, 2019, 06:39:59 AM »
Milly, I’m not sure he even realizes I know about the road trip.  He thinks I’m stupid and would only think he likes a clean car.  Haha,,that’s a joke in itself.    Sdaughter mentioned it last week when she was venting that her father was forcing her to meet ow and cancel her plans to see her mother.   All so that ow doesn’t take it personally, you know.  ::).

Ursa,,,I can always count on your crazy posts to make me smile.  😂

I had a great bbq dinner last night with 6 of my closest friends from church.  Ever since the pizza party back in March (that I planned to help me come out of my winter depression), I have had a dinner gathering once a month.   I usually make the main course and the others contribute whatever they want - no rules either.   If they all show up with desserts,,,fine with me. 😝.   I shouldn’t say no rules because there is one rule for me and it’s the ongoing theme of the dinners.   Whatever I make is guaranteed to be something I have never made before.   I get to experiment with new ideas & recipes that I otherwise would probably never make.   It takes the pressure off a bit too - if it’s a flop,,,,oh well,,,it’s part of the risk of attending my dinners.   What’s really cool there is always at least one other experimental dish that someone brings.  The results so far have been spectacular - better than I imagine because I am challenging myself with some multi-step technical cooking skill recipes.   And the others can choose to do the same with their contributions if they want.   

So last night - after dinner - nice night on the deck with fire-pit going, we are are relaxed, chatting, laughing lots and just enjoying being in each other’s company.   It’s been this way with all the dinners so far and everyone tells me they really look forward to the next one.   In the midst of this great evening, it dawned on me that I really do have not just a life, but a wonderful life filled with love and laughter and great friends.  I can honestly say this part of my life is much much better than it ever was while with my h.   I couldn’t see it then, but looking back from where I am now,,,it’s impossible not to see the difference and how much richer my life is today.   I feel very blessed and very grateful to be where I am now.  The biggest (only) thorn is h.  If he was female he would be a ‘Debbie downer and who needs that?

And,,, date #2 coming up this weekend.   Don’t worry,,I won’t be doing many updates about this, and it’s way too soon to tell if anything will develop.  For now my excitement is a bit about what might happen with him because I am interested,,,, and a whole lot of excitement that ,,,wow,,, I am not to old or too unattractive or too dull to get a nice man interested enough to want to see me for a second date.   The boost to my self esteem is about time and more than a little welcome.  😊




Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #98 on: June 26, 2019, 02:26:51 PM »
I love that vignette you described with the firepit and fun conversation. That you do have a wonderful life filled with love, laughter and great friends. This is that whole counting our blessings thing. Sometimes we can take it a step further where we realize things might actually be better in some respects. But I think it takes a while. 


and a whole lot of excitement that ,,,wow,,, I am not to old or too unattractive or too dull to get a nice man interested enough to want to see me for a second date.   The boost to my self esteem is about time and more than a little welcome.  😊


I LOVE reading this. We LBS take a beating on the self esteem and confidence. So once we start to feel worthy again, well, that is true healing my friend. And you are doing it!
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Milly

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #99 on: June 27, 2019, 01:28:38 PM »
Anon, love your monthly dinners with the girls, and yes, isn't it good when we realize that our lives are actually pretty good, maybe even better than when our Hs were with us, the only thing missing is our Hs, though. Ugh!

Love that your dates are boosting your self esteem, and I totally get what you mean. BD destroys self esteem. So glad it's helping you. That is certainly a big positive.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #100 on: July 01, 2019, 08:57:40 AM »
Just catching up and happy to see you getting your confidence back and practising your cooking skills. :)

I would say that I am struck again about the lack of boundaries in the situation at the moment.

-Ow love cards stored in your garage.

-Swak cards arriving in the post.

-Forced meeting between SD and OW.

-Shop vac in the drive to prepare for OW arrival.

He isn't crossing boundaries he is trying to stomp all over them and laughing while he does it.  :o

Granted you can't change his relationship with SD, but how awful to pressure her so much that she doesn't see her own mother?!  >:(

The SWAK cards and the forced meeting between SD and OW are both triangulation. One with you, one with SD. They are a way to ignite drama, and 'woe is me', 'everyone won't play along' type energy. Generally with an affair is fuelled by drama and excitement, it starts to wane eventually over time, so these events stir it all back up again.

Storing love letters in your house, allowing love letters to be mailed to the house, and preparing (YOUR?!  :o) old car to ride around for OW is just plain old boundary stomping. You need to get some combat boots on and kick the crap out of that self entitled attitude.

Honestly with that SWAK return address the OW might find herself anonymously receiving a life time subscription to ''eat a bag of d!cks'' or a 3 ton delivery of farm fresh 'fertilisers' delivered to her door...or you know...Something like that.  ;)

You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #101 on: July 02, 2019, 06:18:00 PM »
Hi Morte and thanks for posting.   I can see how you would think boundaries everywhere are being stomped on while he laughs.   From the outside it would appear that way but it's not what it seems.   I will admit I struggled with boundaries in the first year but I can't say I've had trouble with boundaries in year two or now going into year 3.   If he butts up against a boundary, I let him know and he pulls back and shows more respect.   

To comment on the lack of boundaries you mention:
1.  allowing love letters to be stored in the garage.   I can't stop him.   Our separation is slightly different than is typical in most marriages.   We have a prenup which means we can expedite a divorce very quickly and without involving a lawyer and legal fees as long as we have a property settlement.   Right now we don't have one and until then we continue to be joint property owners of the home and all the contents (not including personal items).   He could insist on living here instead of me but fortunately he hasn't done that but if he did, then lawyers would have to be involved at some expense or we would have to co-habitate.   Where he lives now he has no storage and has asked for 1/2 the garage for storage of his stuff.   I have no good reason to say no,,, 1/2 the house is his after all.   I don't hate him, I don't wish him ill-will, and I don't wish to make life more difficult for him and the space was unused anyway.   Besides, if he rented storage space I would have to pay for it since I refused him space in the garage which is technically 1/2 his.  If there was no storage room here and he rented a locker I would still have to pay for 1/2.  Those expenses are split equally in our situation. Also... his stuff in the garage is not co-mingled with my stuff (my car is all I have in my 1/2).     When I became aware there were a few cards from ow in his stuff, along with other stuff,,, it was because I stepped onto his side of the garage to look for a document I needed that I thought might be in one of his boxes.   That's when the cards were found along with some other cards including some from his kids, his family, and from me.   They were not left out in the open for me to find and he had no reason to think I would find them where they were.   So I don't see that as boundary crossing at all.   I hadn't laid out a boundary either about what kind of stuff he could store on his 1/2 of the garage either.  I saw that as his business and still do.   tbh,,,those cards don't bother me much at all.   I did grab them a few weeks ago and hid them but since then I've returned them to where they were found.   I just don't care enough to do stuff like that now.   

2.  Using the shop vac in the driveway to vacuum his (my old) car.    Same as above,,, he is joint owner of the house and joint owner of the stuff in the house or garage including the shop vac.   He asked and I refused to let him do it on the driveway.   So, at my suggestion,, he took it over to his own place to use there and then returned it.   It's not my vacuum,,, it's still our vacuum.   And,,, he has no idea I know why he wanted to vacuum the car.   He doesn't know that I know ow is visiting.  So he isn't boundary breaking and laughing in my face.   If anything he has always taken great effort to keep me from knowing when ow is here or when he goes to see her.   Don't ask me why, but this is what he does.   He figured I would just think he had a dirty car to vacuum but had no idea I can put 2 and 2 together to know that it's because ow's visit is imminent.

3. SWAK cards arriving in the post.    Neither me nor my h had any control over this one and no expectation that this would ever happen either.   After 2 years this was the first time it happened and trust me a firm boundary was put in place immediately.    If it happens again, the letter gets returned to sender if it has a return address on it.   Before anyone chimes in telling me that I should destroy it or burn it etc,,, it is a federal offense (mail theft) to do so and I wouldn't put it past ow to set me up for such a charge.   Besides, I don't need to stoop to her level and play such games.   She will simply get the letter returned back to her with no comment or drama whatever.  H is currently blocked on my phone and is only able to communicate through text or email as a result of his attempt to minimize what ow did.   I have also seriously considered forcing a property settlement which clears the path to divorce once that's done.   I've already sent him one email suggesting this is in his best interest and if he still refuses then unfortunately it means I need to hire a lawyer to get it done.   Costing me a fair of money unnecessarily to sell a house at the wrong time in a down turn.  It will cost him too.   So.. that was the fall-out for him because his ow thought it was okay to send his bd card to me.    I realize this is probably exactly what she wanted to accomplish and I'm fine with that because he is no longer someone I want in my life and she is welcome to have him,,, and I'll even throw in that case of wine.    This may seem like an overreaction if I really am truly done with him.   It's not.   I am over him,,, over the loss of the marriage,,,, but may never be over the horror and cruelty of how it ended.   So I don't need his ow sending me reminders in the mail of how that all went down.   There is clearly a few screws loose in her head and in his head too if he doesn't appreciate the trigger than her bd card caused for me.   

4.  SD - well she did her best to avoid the meeting and went to visit her mother with her h and kids this past weekend anyway.   So h and ow decided to stay in town until they returned today and then meet up with them as soon as they got home.   Nice, hey?  All you want to do when you get home from a weekend away is to unwind and relax, but no... you've got some crazy man who thinks he's a father and his crazy girlfriend waiting on your doorstep.   These are not my boundaries being broken though and I have no say in what SD does or doesn't do.   SD is in a difficult spot,,, as crazy as he is, this man is her father and she can only avoid for so long.   

The past 2 years since bd, and especially the last year, I've been pretty aware of where I want this to end up and I know I can accomplish more with less money if I handle h in a non-aggressive manner.   The last thing I need is to anger him to the point where he questions the validity of the prenup or something.   I'm in a good spot and I don't need to jeopardize that by being too reactive.    But overall, I don't think my combat boots have been gathering much dust.  I use them if I need to.    And,,If my reaction to the birthday card created that much needed drama to revive ow and h relationship then whatever.  But it was a one time deal and there will be no future drama opportunities from my end. 

On another note,,, I have enjoyed a few dates in the last week or so.   3 coffee dates and a golf/dinner date.   One date was a possible 'maybe' something there but after the golf/dinner date this was quashed.   It's amazing how much more I learned on the second date that made me see that there was no future here for even a friendship.   Nice people, all of them, but I don't see anywhere near enough commonality to continue.   It has been nice though,,, to enjoy normal company and normal conversation.   I realize over these last few weeks that I am not in a hurry to meet anyone either.   I'll consider another coffee date when I have some curiosity about someone's profile.   Until then,,, I'm fine. 


Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #102 on: July 15, 2019, 09:00:26 AM »
Well that was a very big and detailed replay. All I can say is you are certainly a more calm, level headed woman than I am.  :)

You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #103 on: July 15, 2019, 06:35:53 PM »
Okay,,, but.... what would you do instead Morte,,, if you were me in my circumstances?   


Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #104 on: July 22, 2019, 04:37:08 AM »
Honestly? Well ...I am a bit firey to say the least. Sometimes I can calm that crap down...sometimes not so much.

The love letters in my garage just wouldn't happen. I don't care if it is somehow 50% his property or whatever. They would be gone. Burned, trashed, Shredded...used to poop scoop the garden. They just would. He can leave all his tools or clothes, or whatever else in there...but love letters would not make it in my house.

And I am saying that when this house has both mine and Beast's name on it. I packed ALL his $h!te and it left with him. The only thing of his still here is stuff like the weed eater and tool box. That's it.

The fact that you found the cards because you were snooping...(yeah I said snooping, we all do it in MLC because that is sometimes the only way to get info right?! ::)) that is irrelevant in my opinion. It is stuff he left in your garage, you own half the house, you can do what you like with the stuff he leaves there. A card is of no monetary value, he can't prove you did it....etc. Maybe that makes me childish. Don't really care. So I take my hat off to you for being more mature about it than I would lol.

Preparing his car in your driveway for his OW...again. Technically 'you don't know' that is what it is for...but let's be real...you do...he does...and I would take it as a virtual slap in the face. Granted perhaps that is not how you view it. But if it were me since you were asking...I would flat out say in a sorta jokey way ''If you want to hoover out your toy car you best do it at your house. Kinda weird preparing your ride at your wife's house for your affair partner''. That would get the point across in a big way.

Glad you made him go away to do it. But sometimes I think as long as you say it in a funny detached way sometimes you just have to bring the truth round for them to face. Sometimes they should be called on their bull$h!te, so they know you aren't as stupid as they seem to think.

I can not begin to guess what I would do if OW sent a love letter here to my house. I imagine it would be something creative, funny, and make her look like an @$$hole. Perhaps sign her up to a delivery service or two...who knows...

So like I said. You are a more calm and level headed woman than I am.  :)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Rising Phoenix

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #105 on: July 22, 2019, 04:45:06 AM »
I agree with mort, sorry. When h did one of his early returns he left a love book which was a story of how they met and what she loved about my h. The title was slapper(insert her name) and h love story. There were also love letters. I had a nice little bonfire! No way staying in the house I live in with his children. H has fishing gear here and when 5 yrs are up and he has not removed it will be binned. His name is on the mortgage so half his house but it’s MY home. Xx
Me 51
H52
Married still, 22yrs
Together 30yrs
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier. Not yet finalised.
Crazy divorce started by him.
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Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #106 on: July 22, 2019, 05:02:01 AM »
WWMD = What Would Mort Do? .... or Wicked Weapons of Mass Destruction...



She IS a "bit firey" after all...
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #107 on: July 22, 2019, 07:51:25 AM »
Ok,,you both make valid points.  So I’ll just say that I think I’m at a different place or stage emotionally than you guys.  I’m not hoping one day my h comes back but if there was any possibility of that one day or if I was standing or if we were friends,, I would respond like you would. 

Boundaries are for the lbs -  to protect us emotionally.    In the early days I would have totally lost it on h.  To lose it on him now in my indifferent state of mind would fall a bit flat because I just don’t have enough emotion to pull it off.    Grabbing the cards and burning them - when I feel this indifference and there is no way we will ever reconcile - seems vindictive with no other purpose.   And why give his ow any satisfaction of knowing I blew up?  Won’t that encourage the triangulation?




Offline Rising Phoenix

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #108 on: July 22, 2019, 08:50:32 AM »
You sound really healthy anon and in a good detached place. I am rather jealous that you have the strength to be so indifferent. My bonfire was over 2.5 yrs ago so I was a bit of a newbie then. I don’t think I wouldnt burn them now but I’m still not as detached as you as I still wouldn’t have them in the house. I would give them to him. Xx
Me 51
H52
Married still, 22yrs
Together 30yrs
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier. Not yet finalised.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Clinging boomerang for 3 yrs now Vanisher but  twice a yr pops his head up. ow has balls in a vice!

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #109 on: July 22, 2019, 09:23:50 AM »
WWMD = What Would Mort Do? .... or Wicked Weapons of Mass Destruction...


Ha I like it. I need a bracelet or a whole movement of this.

Bet I could come up with some crackers.  ;D

So I’ll just say that I think I’m at a different place or stage emotionally than you guys.

Probably very true.  :)

Boundaries are for the lbs -  to protect us emotionally.    In the early days I would have totally lost it on h.  To lose it on him now in my indifferent state of mind would fall a bit flat because I just don’t have enough emotion to pull it off.    Grabbing the cards and burning them - when I feel this indifference and there is no way we will ever reconcile - seems vindictive with no other purpose.   And why give his ow any satisfaction of knowing I blew up?  Won’t that encourage the triangulation?

I can understand that. Hard to be mad and fight for something you no longer deem worth it right?

For what it's worth I don't think it would be triangulation as OW would never know what you (or metaphorical I) did. Triangulation would be if you burned it and sent a picture. If you put things on facebook to fuel the fire (ha ha, get it...fire  ;D). If cards go missing and you don't mention it. It won't be found for ages...not like your MLCer is going in the garage staring at them lovingly  ::)

Triangulation needs drama. It needs ego's, anger, jealousy...it needs an audience.

Things that happen in the garage...stay in the garage.  8)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #110 on: July 22, 2019, 11:31:02 AM »
To lose it on him now in my indifferent state of mind would fall a bit flat because I just don’t have enough emotion to pull it off.   

Oh how I long to be where you are emotionally. Life goals.  As long as it doesn't bother you, then why rock the boat or waste your energy on that stuff? I get where you are coming from. You are sounding great my friend.
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OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #111 on: July 22, 2019, 03:34:09 PM »
To lose it on him now in my indifferent state of mind would fall a bit flat because I just don’t have enough emotion to pull it off.   

Oh how I long to be where you are emotionally. Life goals.  As long as it doesn't bother you, then why rock the boat or waste your energy on that stuff? I get where you are coming from. You are sounding great my friend.

Exactly my thoughts too KIT.   Waste of energy.  Some of this stuff throws me for a loop in the first few minutes or maybe hours, but then pfft... I let it go.   Life is just too short to waste energy and time on such stuff.   8)

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #112 on: July 22, 2019, 03:47:38 PM »
RP - that is a good suggestion!! To collect the cards, give them to him and tell him that our garage is not the appropriate place to keep them.   (Gutter maybe,,, but not the garage.... lol....)

Morte -

Quote
Triangulation needs drama. It needs ego's, anger, jealousy...it needs an audience.
So true.  I am careful how I react and what I say to h because I know it will be part of a bedtime conversation between them and she would love to hear how I lost my cool over something like cards in the garage or vacuuming in my driveway.   Im not that indifferent that this wouldnt bother me.  So I watch what I say and how.

Quote
Things that happen in the garage...stay in the garage.  8)
Love this,, 

Oh,, and the snooping in the garage?  Im not going to play all innocent there but it wasnt pure snooping.   I was legitimately looking for something and saw a bin of old pictures and cards from years back,,, including cards from me.   I was curious if he had any recent additions to that bin.   Pure curiosity and I didnt quell it but ,,yep,,, rummaged through.   So it wasnt first degree snooping (pre-meditated) but I will confess to second degree (not premediated) snooping.   haha... ::)

Offline Milly

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #113 on: July 23, 2019, 12:57:40 AM »
Me, I would feel those cards were tainting my new life. In earlier days, I would have burnt them, nowadays, I would put them in the trash and just have them off my territory. What is the MLCer going to say? Where are the cards from my lover?
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OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #114 on: July 26, 2019, 08:50:22 AM »
Cards?? What cards? Business cards? Christmas cards?!

Love cards from OW?!

Why on Earth would that be in MY garage?!  ??? ::)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #115 on: July 26, 2019, 09:11:46 AM »
Okay,,can we please drop it?  I’ve explained my position on the cards in detail in a previous post.  If I am not bothered about them enough to get rid of them then no one else needs to be either.  My feelings and reactions about them may not be typical but they are mine and I’m entitled to them. 

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #116 on: July 26, 2019, 09:31:22 AM »
Wow. Sorry Anon I was just joking around. No offence meant.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #117 on: July 26, 2019, 10:15:56 AM »
I apologize Morte if I misunderstood the intent of your post.  I took it as sarcasm and sorry for my reaction.   It’s been a stressful week.   I made the decision earlier this week to sell my house and it will be listed in a few weeks.   After that I intend to pursue a divorce.  Even though it’s my decision, I’m still stressed and heartbroken that it’s finally come to this.  It’s a very sad time at the moment.   Not an excuse for my reaction but an explanation for why I’m a bit irritable.  It’s not my usual way to be. 

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Bits and Pieces
« Reply #118 on: July 26, 2019, 11:05:48 AM »
No worries.  :)

I am sorry you are having to sell your home and start the divorce. Even though it is your decision I know it will still hurt. It is very sad we are all put in these situations and it isn't what we want, but sometimes what we have to do.

You will get through this. You are a strong woman.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

 

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