[Not Applicable]

If you could be a fly on the wall of the alienator's relationship with your spouse you would likely feel empowered and enlightened.

But that doesn't mean her Fakebook take on their relationship or what your friends tell you about her to make you feel better.

It doesn't mean your monkeybraining thoughts.

It means real, genuine observation.

If you were a fly on the wall in their relationship, you would see that your spouse does not treat the alienator as well as you, is selfish, is monster, is all the bad traits they develop in MLC with the OP, maybe even more so than with you. You would see that as HB says, it really is some recreation of a bad childhood dynamic they previously lived. You would see that the alienator is jealous of you and even wishes they were you. You would see that your spouse has no feelings of true love or empathy for the OP, they are just using them. You would know that the OP actually has many of the same flaws your spouse complained about in you.

I agree that nothing good comes in trying to manipulate their relationship, but knowledge is power. The more real information you have about the OP, the more it builds your self-confidence. The more you can see how your spouse is with another person, the more you can reflect on your own relationship and improve on it.

As a fly on the wall...but don't be the fly that lands on their plate, as the reaction to that is predictable.

[Treasur]

For those of us with Vanisher, Goner, trickier to do bc we have very little info. And I have always valued my dignity too much to hunt for it. Turning away has always felt like the wise thing to do to me. Not my circus.

what you say may be true, idk....it could equally be true that my xh is treating her much the same as he did me in the first few years bc he was very happy and healthy then so is aiming for a do-over. Of course logically two things are different...she is not me and he is a heavily medicated depressed man under psychiatric care for over 2 years when they got married who treated his first wife appallingly. But I guess both he and she believe that they are sufficiently special, or I am sufficiently terrible, that none of this will affect them.....still not my circus though.

[Mortesbride]

Whelp mine is the 22 year old co-worker who is obsessed with becoming a Disney Princess, avid stalker fan girl of the guy from walking dead, and likes to eat skittles in parking lots for their secret dates. 

I spoke to her on the phone in the beginning when I found a 40 minute call from him to her, I was calm cool and collected and directly asked her what her relationship with my husband was. At the time she said ''they were just friends'', ''she is sorry for her part in this'', ''I can talk to her whenever''. At this stage it was an emotional affair and had been I would say for about a year, it only took them a few weeks after this to become physical. MLCer used to say she was ''like a sister to him''...glad he never had a real sister. 

The reality is she is very naive, and in love with the idea that he gave up everything for her. She lives with her parents, considers her cat her child, and is an art student. 

He sees a young girl (who looks similar to me), who is responsibility free and full of fun. Talks about how he has to entertain her, and has gave many speeches about how ''crazy and broken'' people who seemed so nice were. 

They share no interests, and have a completely different sense of humour...but she is ''pliable'' and believes everything he says. She is the ego fluffer he desperately needs. She can't see through his lies and bull$h!te. She drew a picture, framed it, and put it on his desk (to mark her territory?). The picture said ''Best boyfriend ever''. How can a married man, with three kids, cheating on his wife and living with his mother be ''The best boyfriend ever''? 

In all honesty writing this post has made me think of her more than I ever have so far. I am thankful for that truly.

Before I came to HS I knew she was a poor imitation of me from that time period when we were single, kid free, and fun. Only...she clearly has heaps less character, dignity, respect..and has a set of teeth that makes you think she might eat you when she grins at you. 

I knew that whole dynamic wasn't because she was special, or better than me...I knew if it wasn't her it would have been one of the other low character girls from his work. I knew it in my gut, and then came here and read it all over HS and it confirmed what I knew.

So far the whole thing is kept on the hush hush. He deleted his FB so I (or she) couldn't post or tag him I believe. She has not updated her's the entire time. There are no pictures around of them so far. She is still the secret hiding in his closet.

He has changed departments at work (away from her, but still in the same company etc), and routinely talks of changing jobs. I wonder if this is because of the job (which he has had nearly a decade) or because he now needs to get away from her a bit. He goes through spells of calling in sick to work for a week..I imagine this is when they fight.

Last time I really heard/talked about her she had grounded him from using her toy car because he told her he wanted space. 

I am not angry with OW, she is just an idiot who was in the way. But I do not like her, because I do not like her character. Not because she is OW, but because I don't tend to like anyone who would destroy a family for their own happiness. Movies, books, TV programs...even before BD I didn't like those characters. She is just a character playing her part. Perhaps she see's herself as saving him from his evil wife, likely that is what he told her. The reality is, she is going to be collateral damage in a war she didn't know she was in... She has branded herself a cheater, an other woman, a home wrecker and that is a mark that will always be there...long after MLCer is not. I can't imagine she will garner much sympathy in the end.

So personally I feel in due time she will get what she put out. I direct the fault where it belongs, on my MLCer.

[Silver]

Wow, Morte... Disney princess and skittles... 

MLCer used to say she was ''like a sister to him''...glad he never had a real sister. 

Goner, your post made me think...
What I believe is that my XW doesn't have the connection with him, not like we did anyway. Not sure if it's only about kids together which of course bonds us as long as we live but I don't really think so. In fact last summer I asked her, straight, did they get the connection, like we always did and she told me "probably not". At jan this year she told me she isn't going to get married again, right after that they got encaged... Maybe the connection found, or maybe not, probably just that she is dependent on SOMEONE, can't be on her own.

I'm not FB friend for XW anymore, I don't really know about their relationship, what I see is 2 minutes glance when picking up kids so  you are right goner, without having a chance to be a fly on their wall, it's really no use to make any assumptions.

[sachat3]

Morte - maybe it’s a teeth thing as that’s exactly what my Hs Ow is like. One of my friends said she looked like a horse and another said she could eat an apple through a letter box 🤣 juvenile I know but hey

Goner - I’m not sure if it’s lucky or unlucky. But I know people who know Ow and every so often I get sent screenshots or her posts. She makes it clear with quotes etc on her Instagram when things don’t go well. There was even a time, she shot herself in the foot because she started getting her nails done at the salon (like I have been doing since I was 16) and then they split she uploaded a pic of her nails natural with no polish no acrylic and captioned it something about “not pretending anymore out with the old” that type of thing. I think we all know really that the relationship won’t last. I know it won’t. We all do. I think even they do which promotes the online gushy posts. Which promotes the photos like morte had. To prove to the outside world.

My Ow is an affair down in all sense of the word. Intact very soon after BD I remember telling H that he had “down graded” and he laughed and said something like “it’s not always about looks” which he’s right, but if you aren’t physically attracted to someone what hope is there? Especially at the start!

[Father5]

   When I found out about the affair I went ballistic. I don't think I have ever been that angry. I broke a chair and said horrible things to my wife. All of which I wish I could take back and now are used as justification. The fact is I don't think about the other man anymore. I have never seen a picture of him and he lives 2500 miles away. 

  I think my biggest concern is they don't see enough of each other to have the infatuation wear off fast enough. She flies out once a month or every other month to see him for a few days. The good thing is my kids haven't met him, so there is that. The only thing I have heard about him is from my nanny. She told me he is married and that my wife stated that "he is just like father5 his wife just fell out of love with him".

  But I will never accept him and never be around him. I wish I was able to have Xmas and birthdays together for the kids but I just can't. I feel like I would be condoning what she is doing. She has asked for a life without me in it and that is what i'm giving to her. We don't talk at all accept about the kids in a text message or email only.

[Tyks]

Goner, thanks for the post.  I think having a vanisher is what makes me want to be a fly on the way.  But you could very well be right about the whole thing.  It made me think.

Morte, wow, disney princess for sure.  Interesting about a younger you.  I once showed my boyfriend a pic of the ow, one that i found somewhere online early on, and he said "a younger you?"  Very interesting indeed.

[KeepItTogether]

Oh Song...that letter! GROSS!!!!  Like Treasur said, what a delusional self centered fruit basket indeed!

My H's OW has been married twice.  Had a son with H1. Cheated on H1. Divorced. Then, after marrying H2, decided she wanted another child....but with H1. So cheated on H2 with H1 for that child.

H broke up with her August 2017. She then proceeded to "go looking/stalking" him, with her S13 and D5 in tow. She sent her S13 to my MILs door at 7:30 am to see if H was there. MIL walked out to the car and yelled at her. Called her a homewrecking ow. Told the kids their mother was a bad person and that her "boyfriend" was a married man with a family of his own.  2 months later, H brings OW to his sister's wedding. OW had not spoken to MIL since the "incident." MIL kicks her out of the reception. Now H no longer speaks to any of his family--mother, father, sisters and brother.

I don't know how H treats her. But he has told me as recently as a month ago, while still with her, that he hasn't been happy in years. That he "ruined" his life.  I know it is partly for sympathy from me. But I am sure there is some truth in it too. This particular variety of OW controls every aspect of his life. Best for me to bow out gracefully.

[OldPilot]

But he has told me as recently as a month ago, while still with her, that he hasn't been happy in years. That he "ruined" his life.  I know it is partly for sympathy from me. But I am sure there is some truth in it too. This particular variety of OW controls every aspect of his life. Best for me to bow out gracefully.

This is exactly the role that the other person plays in the crisis.
They take care of our spouses while the crisis persists.
Their relationship is doomed and very likely to blow up but
it is reality for the time being.

[sachat3]

It’s funnt isn’t it because I didn’t realise how bad these Ow (and men I’m sure) are. I remember thinking that it I confronted her. She would stop seeing my H. Heck I know if I was talking to someone and their ex sent me abuse i would bow out. Not her. I sent her evidence of him cheating on her. Again thinking she would bow out. To no avail. So around 4-5 months after BD I completely left them alone. No messages. No sly digs online. Literally nothing. Now I know what I’m dealing with I leave them to it. Oddly enough I see evidence daily of it crumbling around me without me doing anything.