Author Topic: My Story Hunting Normal Service  (Read 2274 times)

Online TreasurTopic starter

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My Story Hunting Normal Service
« on: May 01, 2019, 10:09:37 AM »
My mother is in hospital still. I don't know if she will pull through. I'm not always sure I want her to, much as I love her. Hanging around hospitals is a lot of inactive thinking time though which I don't much like. But I have learned to be still and to accept what is out of my hands so that helps. Just got back and am off to the allotment for a peaceful evening hour.

I seem to have reached that point - and in many ways it is a blessing - where I can look with a more dispassionate eye at what an extraordinary and surreal experience this has been. So many layers to it, so few knowns and such a lot of destruction. It feels peculiar and at the same time absolutely obvious that it would take much longer to recover from than one might imagine. I have read a few other posts by people at the 3/4 year mark and see many musing on the same uncertain building blocks as I am. Less about MLC and more about a post WTF life really.

I think my thread really is becoming a recovery thread, an alternative maybe to other stories of reconnection or reconciliation or new romances or fighting in the active MLC trenches. I hope it is useful to others and I will carry on posting while I think it is and while it is still useful to me.

Old thread https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10760.0;all
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline PJ Ames

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2019, 10:17:13 AM »
Attaching Treasur. So sorry about your mother.

Nothing wrong with a recovery thread. Wishing you many peaceful hours.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Shining Star

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2019, 10:31:50 AM »
I am sorry about your mom, as I said in an earlier post, I went through a similar experience.  Your words are always useful whether posting on your on site, or commenting on others.  My posts are also generally about recovery or lack there of.  I am an educated, successful, very pulled together woman in RL, and this experience has knocked me over.  Who could have imagined that 5 yrs post BD, and one year post D, I could still be struggling with a level of despair that is shocking.  I want to recover, not just for myself, but to help someone else living with so much pain.  Enjoy your evening.  I hope you have time to rest and relax.
H:56, I am 54
BD: March 2014, Left Sept 2014, Back Nov 2014
Left again in February 2015.  Asked for D on 9/22/15
Said he was "sure" he wanted a D in Dec 2015; 
Admitted long term affair - May 14, 2017 - says he is in love with the "symptom" but wants to build a relationship with me with "clear expectations" WHATEVER THAT MEANS!  Settlement Agreement signed 9/20/17.
Divorce final 3/14/18.
NC - by choice - 1/2018

Online One day at a time

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2019, 10:40:05 AM »
Attaching Treasur. Sorry to hear about your mum but I can understand why you might not want her to pull through. Sometimes it's better for them go.. if they are ill, not really enjoying life, it's hard to watch. It doesn't make it any easier when the time comes but at least their suffering ends.. big hugs

Thanks for continuing to post.. we all need to heal and rebuild regardless so I always find your threads very helpful.
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.


"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline heroIam

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2019, 10:40:14 AM »
Hey Treasur,
Sorry to hear about your mom.  I also think your words are very useful, and appreciated.
Looking forward to meeting you in Sept.
Take good care of yourself. 
I continue to follow along.
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline Thunder

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2019, 11:15:59 AM »
Sending prayers for your mom, Treasur.
What ever happens to her, I hope it brings her, and you peace.

That's all I wished for my parents towards the end.  It wasn't about me losing them anymore it was not wanting them suffering anymore...so I do understand.

She's in God's hands.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2019, 11:34:38 AM »
Thanks all....let's call ourselves the Recovery Gang  :)
And for anyone who doesn't know my backstory, I have no homicidal instincts but my mother has advanced vascular dementia and her life is a sad thing to see. Hence my comment.

My new little plastic greenhouse withstood the storm of a few days ago hurrah (memo to self...MUST update my blog for those of you who want to see my little growing plot by the sea, sorry, was a bit allergic to social media for a while). All my seedlings and young plants seem to do be doing spiffingly well. I am sure to be wandering around in a few months by the beach pressing lettuces and courgettes into the hands of strangers lol.

Gosh I must sound dull. I promise like Shining I used to be a very different kind of woman...seem to have metamorphosed into a rather solitary soul with roses and raspberries instead of cats lol.

None of us want to BE victims even if we WERE victims of the actions of those we most loved and trusted. So it is frustrating to realise how long it takes to see your own recovery isn't it? But maybe that is why I find it comforting that I am not alone and that others after a similar timescale are ploughing through similar stuff. I guess what matters most is that we find our own way to really believe that we will, that there is a good life on the other side even if we carry scars and even though it is not at all what we hoped and planned for a few years ago. For a very long time, I did not believe that. I do now even if I am not yet there.

Underneath I feel ashamed that these events almost destroyed me and that I got lost for so long. And the shame is about how I coped - or didn't - and that Shame leads me to Fear and the Fear leads to Doubt and the Doubt keeps me stuck sometimes. The Fear is no longer about the next bit of crazy or even fear of pain or loss, although I know them well. It is also thankfully not Fear about no longer being myself bc EMDR has done a sterling job on that. Perhaps it is the LBS equivalent of the MLCers Final Fears...it is a Fear I think about being able to trust myself again. Not the world or other humans, but me. Doubting my abilities and judgment and sense of reality in this New Normal. Which seems to create its own strange cycle when I long for Normal but I'm not quite sure what it is or how to do it. And I absolutely know that this experience has changed me profoundly even if I don't know if that is good or bad or to be decided. Or how to use the new me. Or how to reconnect to a normal RL world that will never get just how abnormal this experience really has been and will think I am delusional if I try to explain it.

So, as I stumble through trial and error to my new normal, it feels less isolating to know that many of you are doing exactly the same. We will get there together and share both our successes and our failed experiments right?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 01:12:42 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Rising Phoenix

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2019, 12:20:22 PM »
Following along treasur  x
Me 51
H52
Married still, 22yrs
Together 30yrs
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier. Not yet finalised.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Clinging boomerang for 3 yrs now Vanisher but  twice a yr pops his head up. ow has balls in a vice!

Offline Schratz66

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2019, 12:29:16 PM »
Solitude, roses and raspberries at the sea cottage sounds pretty heavenly to me.
I am sorry about your mom.
I love the fact that you are still posting because for those of us still in the midst it is sooo comforting to know that someone was as low as me and yet is coming out on the other side. It shows true courage and gives me such hope and I do hope to learn from this entire painful episode what my life is really all about..

Me 52
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2019, 01:08:55 PM »
Homicidal tenancies--you do have a way with words my friend. I watched my Mom fight an infection after her cancer had metastasized for a week. It was pretty violent. I was praying by day 2 that God would take her soon and end her pain. I understand completely.

I want to tell you not to feel shame for how you responded to all this. But then I realize your feelings are yours alone and you get to name them. But from outside I see one strong, resilient and determined person unwilling to recreate past mistakes. And how you responded initially, or didn't, is part of the journey that led you to where you are now.

Yes recovery. I like it. I think I am finally coming out of the "I want my H back" phase. You have inspired me through your writings here and many threads to heal first and foremost.

Hugs friend. I am praying for your dear Mom.
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Anon

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2019, 02:00:11 PM »
Treasur,, I'm so sorry to hear about your mom.  The end of life stage is so difficult.  Many hugs to you while you go through yet another difficult time.

My mother also had dementia and she declined rapidly in the last several months of her life.   She had no mobility, and no ability to do even the simplest tasks for herself.   It was heartbreaking to see.  She wanted to go and had dealt with enough of this life.    It had been an exhausting year in both our lives and I was relieved and grateful when her time came.   Then BD only 7 weeks later.   Something I'm not sure I can ever forgive because it completely derailed my process of grieving my mother to deal with the horrifying nightmare of abandonment and betrayal. 

You and your mom are in my thoughts and prayers. 

Anon




Offline Anjae

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2019, 02:24:55 PM »
Welcome to your new thread, Treasur.

I am sorry to hear about your mum. I understand you. At a point, with grandmother, I had the same feeling. Paternal grandmother has Alzheimer's and mum has vascular dementia, but we still aren't in the going to hospital phase.

Glad to know things are going well with the allotment. Looking forward to see new pictures of it.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2019, 02:38:55 PM »
Be careful what you wish for. Poor Whyus said his thread was boring then he got a MLC roller coaster.  :o

Don't wanna jinx yourself.

I am sorry to hear about your mother, but understand your feelings too.

Me and my father had a complicated relationship to say the least. In the end we at least got some time to talk, and get a bit of closure I guess before he died. But it was tough to watch this 6' 5'' man wither away slowly over 2+ years, knowing there was nothing we could do to help him. Watching everything he was become....everything he wasn't. When he finally passed I was of course sad, as all children are, but...also relieved he was no longer suffering. By the end he had no quality of life.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online Rosetintedglasses

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2019, 03:16:36 PM »
Joining in on your recovery story Treasur. Your thoughts and writings are always good as you are so knowledgeable having gone through so much.

💕 Sending love to you and your Mother 💕

Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017 then EA
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2019, 04:45:51 PM »
Treasur,
Following along.  Sending thoughts and prayers and virtual yellow roses for you and your mother.  Wishing you peace and grace. Maleficent
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline Nerissa

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2019, 01:01:18 AM »
I hope your mother is as comfortable as she can be and am thinking about you.

Online Whyus

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2019, 01:45:18 AM »
Sorry to read about your Mother Treasur, do you have room in the "recovery Gang" for another fan of yours.

Be careful what you wish for. Poor Whyus said his thread was boring then he got a MLC roller coaster.  :o
This! Boring is good, I wont be complaining about that anymore i promise.  :o
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is actually getting People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Online Silver

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2019, 02:52:28 AM »
Attaching Treasur, sorry to hear about your mother's situation.
"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Offline sachat3

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2019, 02:56:19 AM »
Staying with you.

I’m so sorry to hear about your mother. I agree. Keep writing. There’s so many people your words will help. Even if you don’t realise it.

Me - 27
H - 34
3 children together D2 D5 D7
Together - almost 8 years

BD & MLCer moved out - November 2017
OW discovered - December 2017

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2019, 05:39:24 AM »
Mum seems slightly better. Read this book hanging around at the hospital this morning https://www.simonandschuster.co.uk/books/In-Search-of-Silence/Poorna-Bell/9781471169212 and it is a remarkable window into my/our Recovery Gang head. (Her first Chase the Rainbow was about the love and death of her depressed husband and was equally as it is and remarkable imho)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2019, 06:03:59 AM »
Following along Treasur,

I hope that your Mom is as comfortable and pain-free as possible....

As far as the "Recovery Gang" thread, "Recovery" regardless of the form IS really what HS is about... Reconnection/Reconciliation is one possible outcome, a new R is another, a happy single life yet a third possibility but at the heart, it IS really about our recovery more than anything else.
Me - 54
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online Milly

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2019, 09:17:42 AM »
Treasur, I'm so sorry to hear that your mother is in hospital. I'm sorry to think of you in the hospital. I remember the sad feelings the hospital environment brought back to you when you took your uncle in for his procedure.


Please do keep posting. For me, like for so many on here I'm sure, you are extremely helpful because you often put words to how I'm feeling, but I had not even realized it.

We all have to recover, whether our Hs come back or not. Isn't that the point of our journey in this mess? Plus your musings come with seedlings and strawberries and coloured chairs and lettuces handed to strangers. Wouldn't miss it!
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2019, 12:58:15 PM »
Glad to know mum is a bit better, Treasur.

As far as the "Recovery Gang" thread, "Recovery" regardless of the form IS really what HS is about... Reconnection/Reconciliation is one possible outcome, a new R is another, a happy single life yet a third possibility but at the heart, it IS really about our recovery more than anything else.

This.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Evermore

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2019, 05:06:28 PM »
Following along Treasur. Sorry to hear about your mum.

Agree with everyone else, please keep posting. I know for me your words/thoughts are hugely influential. I desperately need help to learn how to Recover and your words are some of the very best and most helpful. xx
M: 48
H: 51
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 20
D: 18
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (44) - he met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Is now pressuring family to meet her.
Moved in with OW 'by stealth' Dec18-Jan19? (just started staying over and not staying at 'home' anymore (caravan at his brothers))

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2019, 07:37:11 PM »
I am so sorry to hear about your mother, and so very glad you had those nice times with her not so long ago. I hope that whatever happens is best for both of you. You have my heartfelt empathy.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline Acorn

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2019, 05:25:31 AM »
How is your mum today?
And, you?
Live-in MLCer
Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2019, 06:40:56 AM »
Thank you for asking, Acorn. My mother seems to be recovering so the antibiotics have done their job although her dementia has been much worse which I gather is normal. And me? I'm ok. Doing what I need to do, trying to use the hanging around/thinking time in a constructive way. Squeezing in pockets of self care where I can. Bit numb on the emotional front but in an appropriate way if that makes sense. I may have run out of both tears and fears...or perhaps just become much more proficient at accepting all the many things beyond my control.

Beach walk thinkys have been replaced by hanging around waiting for a doctor to speak with thinkys. I took my laptop with me this morning to do some clean up work on it deleting old stuff that is slowing it down. Which included photos and documents that had been automatically backed up until Jan 16 from my then h's phone. No hidden horrors but a few things I now look at with a different eye.

For me - and I speak only for me - him leaving, even the affair, was not what almost destroyed me. Even losing his much loved face from my life.  It hurt and it wasn't what I wanted and I grieved...but is the all the insane WTF stuff that caused me to doubt what was really Real that almost broke me and how impenetrable and peculiar it all was. That was the stuff in the end that made me want to let go, even push him/it away, bc it was exhausting and futile and made me doubt myself and my own sanity. And no one can live like that for very long. It is as if the darkness in him was polluting everything it touched.

I still don't know if was MLC per se....I wanted to think so for a while bc I wanted to believe that he would not always be as he was, I wanted to have hope that he/things would get better somehow....but with time the label doesn't matter so much. But looking at some of his old stuff on the laptop, it was very clear that the darkness started to creep up on him, that he fought it for a bit and that whatever broke in him it really wasn't about me at all. But I also saw some signs of him unravelling that I felt sad that I did not know or see at the time and that he chose or felt unable to simply talk to me about. Bc I would have listened and I suspect judged him much less than he feared. I found strange OCD photos of taps and light switches in 2011 for about 3 months when I remember he was unhappy at work and had failed a professional exam. More at a later patch in 2012 when we had just moved house, he was re-sitting the exam and had a new boss who he really didn't like and his industry and company was getting a lot of public flak. And I could see too that in 2013 he was focusing a lot of attention on work, including some glam client jaunts, and being rather more self-centred than he had been before. I was busy...renovating the house and also cleaning my self up to run off and deliver client workshops, so two jobs really. I was never jealous or controlling but I remember feeling that he was being a bit of a selfish a$$ at times and saying so. I saw no signs of any affairs in the photos etc, just an unhappy anxious man who loved me but was also slowly unravelling. And then 2014/15 came along and people got sick and died and life got very hard for both of us. Somewhere along the line my h obviously decided that his life would not be happier until he got rid of me.....and that it was not worth a conversation. Somewhere he decided that work was all he had and that he would build a new life centred on it with a coworker and a new set of work colleagues as his new friends. That this was who he would be, that this would make him feel better or safer.

The stories we tell ourselves are a very important bit of our own recovery I think. For the longest time, I just could not find a sensible story that explained the change in my h and best friend into someone who apparently hated and despised me so much that he did not care if I lived or died, that I deserved to be threatened and frightened and lied to and abused by strangers. And I couldn't live with rewriting my own past so completely either. I just had no idea what my story was and bc I lost sight of my own story, and I had lost my family who were my safe witnesses who knew my story, I lost sight of me. In fact only recently I reached out to another HS poster who understands the peculiarity of the vacuum that comes with a vanisher. That was the really damaging thing. It helped when someone else could see the simple facts that I had forgotten as detachment and NC had also faded some of my recollections.

And now? I have no doubt that my h unravelled into a breakdown. He will have his own story about that. I am sad about the lost opportunities in the things he kept hidden and my inability to see them at the time bc I was too busy being busy and too complacent. Tbh I was not entirely happy either in 2013-15...I felt taken for granted and tired and life was hard. I just didn't blame my h (maybe I should have lol) or stop loving him. But I could also see that he loved me, that while he was unravelling and getting lost he was fighting to push it away, that he did not plan what happened and that I did not imagine the person I shared my life with even if there were some things I did not know. But I can also see that once he broke, there was nothing I can do to put the healthy genie back in the bottle. And how understandable it was that I continued to see him as a broken version of himself for a long time as opposed to the inconceivable unrecognisable person he became. Other people's madness is both impenetrable and contagious I think. And by 2016 he had become a different person who simply wanted to run away and have a different life.

I could not find my story, or see reality, until I was completely unhooked from his story. Bc his story was not mine and I could make no sense of it at all. In fact I was the evil villainess probably in his story lol. Reclaiming ones own story and sense of reality, albeit with some gaps, is an essential building block in recovering from the inexplicable effects of a reality twisted into something unrecognisable by someone else's reality. As I say, I have no idea what his is now, or will be. I suspect, sad as it is in parts, I am probably left with a rather nicer story of my life up to here than my xh may have. It WAS a big good love and partnership. I miss him. And he was also unravelling in ways I could not see and that he chose not to speak about and that eventually blew his and our old life into a million jagged pieces. He may be happy of course with his story now; that is quite possible. But what matters most for me as I move forward is that I can be content that I am beginning to see the reality of mine again. Including the reality of the bits that have been written and the bits left to write.

So my hospital thinky to share is how important it is to fight hard through the WTF layers to find and own your own life story again.  :)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 06:48:45 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2019, 09:47:43 AM »
I am glad your mom is doing a bit better, not so glad you are stuck waiting around in hospitals. That is tiring, I know that.

When you talked about being a villain I got images of a fancy pants queen like.



At least you would look smoking hot in velvet.  8)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2019, 10:39:46 AM »
Actually I have a dark blue velvet coat....just sayin'  8)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Acorn

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2019, 11:57:18 AM »
Glad to hear your mother is responding to medication and that you are using the hospital time for some serious thinking.

Quote
And now? I have no doubt that my h unravelled into a breakdown. He will have his own story about that. I am sad about the lost opportunities in the things he kept hidden and my inability to see them at the time bc I was too busy being busy and too complacent. Tbh I was not entirely happy either in 2013-15...I felt taken for granted and tired and life was hard. I just didn't blame my h (maybe I should have lol) or stop loving him. But I could also see that he loved me, that while he was unravelling and getting lost he was fighting to push it away, that he did not plan what happened and that I did not imagine the person I shared my life with even if there were some things I did not know.   

So true. 

A Total breakdown (emotional, spiritual and relational) is an expression I prefer to use for my H.   MLC doesn’t cut it for me.  Too light a word to describe the change that was so profoundly bewildering.

A Crisis, to me, indicates that the essence of the vessel/medium is intact to express its status gone awry. 

A Breakdown, to me, suggests disintegration of the core material - ‘Self’ is broken. 
I think it’s the same with your xh. 

I doubt anyone wants or plans a breakdown ... 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 12:02:18 PM by Acorn »
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Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
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Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2019, 12:48:03 PM »
I'd like to schedule one for 10 years from now...

I would like to travel the world drinking calorie free cocktails with a hot stud muffin on my side feeding me grapes and ...you know whatever other fruity fantasy crap is out there.  ;D

You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2019, 04:07:32 PM »
Treasur, I'm very pleased to hear that your mother is a little better. A bit of a breather for you.

I do like Morte's gifs. I don't think of you as a villain, but I do think of you looking like the lady in velvet very much. Maybe you've given us little clues about what you look like over the years because I think of you as petite and feminine and dark and powerful.

And, Morte, you ARE the lady in the gangsta dress with the drooling Champagne by the pool!
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2019, 12:19:18 AM »
Ah but Morte...you'd have it planned and then one of your kids would ring up needing your help...back to adultier adult right? I think we LBS value nice normal way more than champagne and stud muffins!

Milly...hmmm, not sure...a few people told me I used to look like the Mona Lisa.  :P....shorter hair now though. Powerful, dark haired yes. Dark in other ways, not really. Feminine? Not sure...woman more than girl I think, probably seemed older when I was younger and younger now I am older maybe. Maybe bc I am not a mother and was a daddy's girl?

Oh, that's weird...woke up to bright sunshine and then as I am sitting here with my coffee, suddenly a burst of hailstones....strange weather today, supposed to be cold and rainy. MLC weather ha ha.

Acorn, I think you put your finger on something important there about the 'self' being broken or disintegrating. And I speak only for me. As I have started to recover, it is much easier to trust my instincts, to trust how something really feels to me even if it is hard to explain to myself or others. My marriage and life suddenly became this very dark twisted irrational scary thing...like a huge dark cloud suddenly turning a sunny day into a cold evening light...and it was never my dark twisted scary bc I don't have that kind of darkness in me. (I have my own but it is a completely different freezing kind of despair darkness, I think, the abyss is not in me but around me perhaps?)...so I always knew in my bones that it wasn't my darkness. There was a rage and spite in it which simply isn't in me. I could feel that.

And after maybe the first few months, I truly felt that the person I knew was no longer in him. It wasn't 'hidden'; it wasn't there. Or not in his limited interactions with me. He didn't feel like a confused version of himself; he felt like someone quite different. Hard to explain but his energy felt different somehow. Dark and a bit frightening bc it felt like someone who was full of rage and not in control of that. Like something rotting. Initially he felt grey and flat I suppose...and then as 2016 went on he felt black and spiky somehow. It honestly felt like the old him had been erased and replaced entirely...and I struggled with that feeling bc I felt it but it didn't seem rational to feel it. But I still felt it.

I was afraid of him tbh...not even in a very concrete way...this person I had never been afraid of before, never seen anyone else be afraid of him either...but I was. And that didn't make sense to me either but didn't go away. Which was my stumbling block with the MLC 'process', I guess, the idea that the 'real' self is somehow still in there and will in time at least partially reappear. I stopped believing that. It didn't feel like that to me. Which tbh sometimes made me feel a bit loopy....that my instincts were shouting something that my head couldn't understand. That this man who couldn't have killed a sick rabbit before was now someone who would not have cared if I'd been hurt or killed, that some perhaps unconscious bit of him wanted to obliterate me. Even through his silence, I could feel the rage. And of course in RL, no one understands that do they? But part of my recovery, of feeling normal again, was to trust what I felt and reject the darkness seeping into my life or my soul. Very weird feeling. Made me doubt my own sanity for a while tbh and I very rarely talked about it to anyone. I mean, it isn't a normal kind of life experience is it? That a decent kind gentle church going man becomes something so dark and destructive? Almost like a psychotic breakdown I suppose, that the very worst bits of you kind of explode out into the world...who on earth can hear that, particularly if they knew my h, and not think that I am delusional or deceitful?

So, yes, I'm sure no one would choose that kind of breakdown. But yes also, whatever happened to my h did not run in tandem with the intact 'vessel' I had known so well and for so long. And loved. Whatever it was, it was on a whole different scale to that. There simply was no 'him' there, but something else. Something that needed/wanted control, that felt stronger or bigger somehow if he hurt people. Maybe it was only with me or what I represented, that's possible, but it was darker than just a not caring feeling. Much darker. I have no idea what he will become or who he is now...I just knew that he had become something else. His new wife calls him a 'sweet soul' and says he is 'her sunshine'....so presumably she sees a different version of him, maybe more like the one I saw or perhaps he is the victim that she has rescued? Idk. I only know how it felt to me. And that 'sweet souls' don't behave the way he behaved towards me and everyone who used to know and love him.

Sorry if that sounds a bit nuts  ???....it is hard even now to find words to explain how it felt but good to no longer doubt that it did feel that way. Sad too bc it is not what I hoped for him but it was never my darkness so nothing I could do. If I am wrong though and there is a 'him' still in there, I imagine it would be very frightening to look at that kind of darkness in yourself so I can have (distant) compassion for that.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 12:37:44 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline serenity

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2019, 12:50:54 AM »
Hope you’re ok Treasur and that your mum is continuing to improve

Have a good w/e

X

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2019, 07:04:22 AM »
Treasur, I understand every bit of your post regarding his transformation. 
I could have used similar words to describe my H in the first 18 months (minimum) after BD. 
He was Darth Vader, only in reverse.  He looked like H but the core was hollowed out and replaced by something dark and twisted.  While H was Darth Vader in H’s bodysuit, he was totally gone.  It was truly frightening to witness that.

He could have evolved either way - complete transformation to Darth Vader within and out, or, the way he is now where he triumphed over the ‘evil’ power.  The best pundits in the world could not have bet on either option.

I agree that the general concept of MLC which often tells us that there is ‘real’ H deep inside the monstering MLCer can lead LBS to be partially blind to the reality and secretly harbour expectations, rather than tentative hope.



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Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2019, 10:08:50 AM »
So reassuring to know I'm not the only one who has felt the darkness, Acorn. Actually I know from other stories here, not all but some, that I am not. There may be a common script to how they break but I think both the darkness and any path to recovery are absolutely individual. Actually now I think about it, the same is probably true for we LBS. Some people might read my ramblings and think it is all piffle; others might see someone else clumsily describe exactly what they feel.

Hope would have killed me, Acorn. That's the truth of it. I felt too alone with my hope. And it stopped me letting go. I do still have hope for my beloved to find his way out of the darkness, but I could only let myself have that when I knew absolutely that I had not only let go but shut the door and turned away. So my hope is unseen and unheard and nothing to do with me. Which means there are no expectations, just a little bit of floating hope. That keeps him in my prayers and I suspect was what made me send the birthday text actually. And why it hurt that the universe showed me that he is still in the dark. But I love him and I hope someday he will not be.

Looking back at my own progress - as I can now more and more - and notwithstanding the leftover shame I feel about how poorly I coped with what happened in my life....I can also see how much courage I have found in pushing myself over and over to let go. I have had to let go of so much. And it is brave to do so. I am starting to take a little pride in that. Which is important. I need to feel proud of myself again - it motivates me more than anything else - and I haven't felt that for a long time. Well, I was proud of building my deep beds all on my own lol.

I also think that part of recovery is, once you reach the point where you feel like yourself again, working out what to do with the bits of you that are left. I have loved people in my life in lots of different ways but there was a sort of open tenderness that came with loving my h and sharing myself with him for so long. A bit like you saw with your h and your son. It was a good thing that unfurled in me bc of who my h was to me. I think it is a good part of me...but I have no idea if I will be able to access that bit of me again. I was watching a TV series last night about someone recuperating from a stroke...I suspect emotional recovery requires the same kind of repetitive grit, like learning to walk again even if you don't know what kind of walks you will take in the future. Just that you won't be able to walk anywhere until you relearn the basics.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 10:11:34 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline FaithWalker

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2019, 12:57:20 PM »
Was several threads behind due to my lack of visits to HS recently, but I'm all caught up.  I missed a question you had asked me about EMDR but the next poster on the thread answered it fairly well I think. 

I was horrified to read about the OW's text, and found myself nodding along to what others were posting about the whole thing.

Your little place by the sea, and your lovely flowers and garden, even though the solitude can feel lonely at times, would be what I would pick every time over the life that your xH has picked.  I do think that you will reach that sense of community feeling again, with time, as you continue to build your new life.

I'm sorry to hear about your Mom being in hospital. 
M-40
H-43
S-18
D-16
S-13
Friends 7y before M
Married 14y
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniv.
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17
Eng. off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
Saw his POF the first month back
1.5y later no signs of anyone new - workaholic

Link to my journey: 
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10630.new#new

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes - some things have to break apart so better things can be built."

"If we don't take time to heal, we will bleed on people who didn't cut us."

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2019, 01:50:48 PM »
Thank you, Faith.
There is something very good and cleansing about getting unconfused enough to say...this is horrible, this is nasty, this is not good. And to hear others say so helps us get unconfused doesn't it?
We don't need to understand it or even blame really to just be able to say...this is horrible.
I've become a bit allergic to horrible.
And a bit hungry for kindness.
So yes, you're right, my life is not perfect and not yet rebuilt, but I think a kind life by the sea with roses is better too  :) Thank you for cheering me and my mum on. X
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Laugh or Cry

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2019, 02:04:17 PM »
Kindness… What a concept! It's something that we certainly all deserve, but one of the most terrible aspects of what our husbands have done to us is to adjust our baseline from the basic decency we should be expecting from all people to just hoping to endure a lower level of evil than we have been. It seems like such a victory when my husband treats me with even basic courtesy, but your post has reminded me that I deserve some kindness, too! Thank you for the reminder! I hope that like you, I can start actually feeling the need for kindness again, rather than just being relieved at the absence of overt evil!

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2019, 02:25:45 PM »
It is out there, Laugh...and I am always very touched when I see it.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Jackolar12

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2019, 04:27:08 PM »
Well T, the most important thing is to get your kidneybeans off to a good start, the MLCer can wait. Have you got cats?

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2019, 12:07:26 AM »
Cat-free right now, Jack. But my plan is to get a rescue cat in October for my birthday.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Rising Phoenix

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #42 on: May 05, 2019, 02:25:58 AM »
Kindness is I feel a basic necessity and lbs have kindness in abundance and give it unconditionally so it stings when we arnt even shown a basic level of kindness. Mlcer goes to the dark side with monster or complete empathy shut down where I feel lbs go to the other end and show more kindness and empathy . That’s just my opinion. Am I wrong? Not from what I see and read. Perhaps there is a stronger need for kindness towards us after the trauma we have endured without inviting it. Xx
Me 51
H52
Married still, 22yrs
Together 30yrs
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier. Not yet finalised.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Clinging boomerang for 3 yrs now Vanisher but  twice a yr pops his head up. ow has balls in a vice!

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2019, 03:15:15 AM »
I think we need kindness as LBS like water, RP.
We need to rebalance the awful inexplicable unkindness....sometimes that means doing anything we can to stop the unkindness getting in if it just carries on appearing. Often it means having to be very, very kind to ourselves. :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2019, 02:51:13 AM »
Funny weather here this week but it is forcing me to tackle some of the stuff on my ( long) avoided to do list. Bit by bit. Some actions, some decisions, some tidying and some throwing away. Of course there is the odd hidden land mine now and then, but they no longer break me even if they sometimes make me pause for a moment.

With the health warning that of course it is futile and usually impossible to know what MLC spouses actually think or feel, the fact is that often they behave as if everything including us is pretty much worthless to them and always was. It is hard not to feel 'not enough' in some way when you experience that isn't it? No matter what your sane brain and normal level of self esteem tell you. Ending a long marriage is never going to be an easy thing bc it does require you saying that you no longer want what you used to care about...but it seems quite possible to me to do so in a way which respects the reality that you did care about these things and people often for many years. MLCers rarely do that it seems to me. And they seem to feel the need to get us to agree with their rewriting or erasing sometimes. I wonder why?

It is an odd feeling to separate the value you place on things and events and people when the main person you created or grew or shared them all with behaves as if they are all worthless to them. Takes a while to pull out your reality from their new reality, I guess, while also accepting that they most probably DO feel these things are worthless bc that is how they behave. The homes we made, the friends we laughed with who knew us best, Louis the cat, the times I did things to support him or looked after him when he was sick and vice versa, even the ways that my family consistently showed genuine love and respect for my h, all the small things you do when you love the person you share you life with that say you matter and I value you....worthless to my xh apparently. Yet so many of those things, especially bc I have lost my family and therefore there can be no new moments like that, are precious to me. Very odd thing to untangle. I am grateful that my xh deciding I was worthless, even if it sometimes made me feel worthless, never made me believe I was worthless just bc he thought so. It did make me wonder sometimes what the point of our marriage and life together was tbh and what was Real and not. Normal LBS stuff. But when I look more objectively, I suppose I think for instance that my mother's love for him like a son was not worthless and she is not worthless just bc he decided that it/she was. He is simply a broken idiot who does not see how valuable and irreplaceable these things are in life....that discarding and trading in family and friends and cats and wives and homes with no apparent respect or regard for them is not wise or reasonable or gracious. It is a bit like spitting in the face of everyone who loved you or ever gave you their time or energy or friendship. And I suppose the truth is that if you can act that way, the person who REALLY becomes worth less is you isn't it?

Still, it isn't an easy feeling to pick through or a new normal to get past is it?
Like a 'my name is Treasur and I spent 20 years with someone who decided I was worthless' confession lol. It is HIS truth as far as I could see so it is hard work to not let it become mine. But if I take myself out of the equation and look at everything and everyone else...my family, our cats, our friends, his church choir etc...no, those things and people didn't suddenly become nothing just bc my xh decided they were nothing to him. Yet there is always a bit of a residue to keep washing off isn't there?

How did the rest of you tackle that? Or did you?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 02:52:15 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2019, 06:27:27 AM »
Quote from: Treasur
And they seem to feel the need to get us to agree with their rewriting or erasing sometimes. I wonder why?

Because, if we agree with them on their revisionist history, then they are no longer the bad guy. They don't need to feel guilty for what they did because WE were the bad person and made them miserable for their entire married lives.... You see, as long as someone holds a different view of that history, they are confronted with the $#!ty things they have done to the LBS and the guilt comes crashing down so they cut off anyone who was witness to the nonsense and they try to get us to accept their version of events....

Quote from: Treasur
How did the rest of you tackle that? Or did you?
By honoring MY reality rather than the fake reality of the Mid-Lifer. By appreciating all those good things in my life that she simply can't or could not or will not appreciate because it is no longer about her and "us." It is about my healing and my reality going forward as a single person... The past is the past. It can't be changed just because someone else wants it to be changed or rewritten...> the future is a blank canvas over which we have NO control in many ways but we CAN chart our course for the future in the present that is here and now.....
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 07:10:58 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 54
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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Offline Acorn

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2019, 06:41:36 AM »
Quote
By appreciating all those good thing sin my life 

Snort. 

I know what you mean, Treasur.  My H tried to gaslight that he was miserable throughout our M from the wedding day, blah, blah.  I did get sucked in big time! 

I could not think well back in those tumultuous days and had one simply saying I kept repeating in my head: ‘what you think of your mother in law is not your mother in law.’  As in, ‘what H says about M is not what our M was really like.’   I guess I was trying to train my mind to separate his perception of our M from the reality of our M. 

I subscribe to what Marcus Aurelius said: “The happiness of your life depends on the quality of your thoughts”. I had to change MY thoughts that were contaminated by H’s gaslighting if I were to get over the hump and be truly happy with our 30 years of M.


« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 06:52:46 AM by Acorn »
Live-in MLCer
Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2019, 02:35:43 PM »

 He is simply a broken idiot who does not see how valuable and irreplaceable these things are in life....that discarding and trading in family and friends and cats and wives and homes with no apparent respect or regard for them is not wise or reasonable or gracious. It is a bit like spitting in the face of everyone who loved you or ever gave you their time or energy or friendship. And I suppose the truth is that if you can act that way, the person who REALLY becomes worth less is you isn't it?


Yep.  I think we can all agree that they are in crisis and, because so, their thoughts/feelings are drastically altered.  And I do believe they feel pretty worthless, especially after they indulge in their replay activities.

I don't think I have consciously tackled my MLCer's truth vs. mine, mainly b/c he literally ran away form his whole life, except his work life. But see, he had just started a new job and so many of the people he works with now, he didn't know on a personal level, and they didn't know him. So he gets to play make-believe. And to be honest, I do struggle with people having no idea that I even exist. Or that I was the one who ended our M. I care too much what people think I suppose. But of course, this all goes back to thinking/living in the past, which I understand to be the key to being depressed. And that makes sense, especially when that "past" has been re-written where the starring villain is US!

I like Acorn's quote--that the happiness of life begins with the quality of our thoughts. It makes sense. I think it is really hard to do, but if mastered, could be the key. Now, if I could only drag my thoughts away from that MLCer.....
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Online Whyus

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #48 on: May 07, 2019, 11:39:24 PM »
Come on T, you know as good as anybody else here that the rewritting of your history is no more than crazy MLCer BS! Your marriage was good, it wasnt a lie and it was real as was mine and 99% of the other marriages here which were apparently so bad.
Please stop stressing about that, you had 20 years which were good, nobody (not even your XH) can take that away from you.

I too would much rather be living your life right now than that of your XH. You have a lot of life left in you and still a hell of a lot to give...... and you have fresh vegetables  ;D
Yes we LBSs Need kindness and Show kindness, more than we did pre BD im sure. I often find myself speaking to elderly People (and not so elderly) while waiting at the checkout when Shopping for example. Its great, most love it when a stranger says something out of the blue, they light up and it costs me nothing  :D
It can really make somebodys day.

"We have greatness within us" - Rou Reynolds

Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is actually getting People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2019, 04:01:17 AM »
Oh Treasur I really wish I had something wise and witty to say the help yank you out of this pain.  :-\

I don't have any good advice about the struggle with feeling worthless or the like.

I think for me, even before BD, I could see all the beautiful things we had around us...and I realised that HE just didn't have the ability to see it. It wasn't perfect by any means, but what man isn't overjoyed to have three beautiful healthy children watching at the window for daddy coming home every day? What man doesn't like to walk into a house and smell his dinner on it's way to the table, and get a hug and kiss and ''How was your day baby?'' from his wife? We did those things every single day...and if it was terrible weather and he got stuck walking home in it...we ran a hot bath and had a towel ready for him. That man had everything a man could want. But HE couldn't see it.

That didn't make me, or the kids, or our marriage worthless. That stranger in the park watching the kids play with the dog could see their worth in an instant, with only one snapshot in time.

These MLCers are weak in one way or another. They can not see the good things around them, and are hyper focused on the bad. We can't force the blind to see.

You are not worthless. You never were. Your marriage never was.

He is just blind.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2019, 04:03:46 AM »
Oh Treasur I really wish I had something wise and witty to say the help yank you out of this pain.  :-\

I don't have any good advice about the struggle with feeling worthless or the like.

I think for me, even before BD, I could see all the beautiful things we had around us...and I realised that HE just didn't have the ability to see it. It wasn't perfect by any means, but what man isn't overjoyed to have three beautiful healthy children watching at the window for daddy coming home every day? What man doesn't like to walk into a house and smell his dinner on it's way to the table, and get a hug and kiss and ''How was your day baby?'' from his wife? We did those things every single day...and if it was terrible weather and he got stuck walking home in it...we ran a hot bath and had a towel ready for him. That man had everything a man could want. But HE couldn't see it.

That didn't make me, or the kids, or our marriage worthless. That stranger in the park watching the kids play with the dog could see their worth in an instant, with only one snapshot in time.

These MLCers are weak in one way or another. They can not see the good things around them, and are hyper focused on the bad. We can't force the blind to see.


You are not worthless. You never were. Your marriage never was.

He is just blind.


THIS!

IS

GOSPEL!
Me - 54
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
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Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2019, 09:16:30 PM »
I don't believe any of our marriages were worthless either, we all knew how happy we were.

The LBS wasn't a broken person to begin with.  The MLCers were always broken and it's possible they never really felt love the way we were able to due to their upbringing being so full of holes.  The MLCer will never be able to truly feel unless they do the work required to make themselves whole.

What you had with your husband was real and it was real for him as well until he felt the emptiness of a poor childhood tug at him at his half life.  What he had with you will always be the best of his life, what he has now is some sort of fantasy life with an affair/marriage down person.  This is not truly living for him, just existing in a very broken reality.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #52 on: May 08, 2019, 10:38:06 PM »

These MLCers are weak in one way or another. They can not see the good things around them, and are hyper focused on the bad. We can't force the blind to see.

You are not worthless. You never were. Your marriage never was.

He is just blind.

Thanks guys...read your wisdom, had a little cry, know you are right.
Clearing stuff out just comes with old WTF landmines that's all.
And my mother's health, a health blip of my own, a lost bank card and a feeling of stuckness all played their part.

Other than with my EMDR therapist, this is the only place where I feel I can be honest about the messy stuff I feel, don't much like and often don't even quite understand myself.
Some of my own process is a function too of having a vanisher and one who remarried so quickly.
There are good things about that. My head does not have to work through a shopping list of criticism. I do not have to navigate the fear of monster or the mindf**kery of clinging confusion. I have no doubt about what could be repaired or restored bc it is impossible now he is someone else's h. There are no remaining links other than in my head and heart.
But I also think a remarried vanisher leaves some big WTF holes after so many happy years together. And they were pretty happy...my h's face used to light up when he saw me, even up until a few months before BD. I have no idea what my h's complaints would be; he simply never said. And of course - unlike Morte's recent evidence of her h's 'prostatitis and toast' life - it is probably foolish denial on my part to assume that my xh is not happy with his new life or that his marriage to ow doesn't publicly legitimise his actions. It shouldn't matter but of course some days it does feel as if the world is on one page and I am on another being ignored.

But my stuckness is not about that.
Nor is it about my h or xh or ow or all the crazy nasty stuff even.

I feel really cross with myself and a bit disheartened tbh that I feel stuck in a kind of limbo of my own making.
I do see that it is mine and I don't want to be where I am...I'm just not sure what is causing it or if I can unstick it if that makes sense. I seem to be caught in the middle between surviving and living, a kind of no (wo)man's land. It is a pretty squirmy place to be but, maybe like being an addict, it feels important to be honest. At least with myself and at least here.

My best guess on the cause/s (and I will take this into my next EMDR session lol)...
Too big a bit of me is living in the past emotionally. Bc that is where my parents are still alive and my h's face is there and I feel safe and life makes sense. Some bit of me is mentally living with ghosts. And truthfully I don't like or value my life without them all. I can do it and it is easier to do in the moment without big thought. But as soon as I try to plan and move forward, I think a bit of me sabotages myself bc actually a bit of me doesn't want to.
And I feel ashamed and weaker bc of how I responded to all of these events in my life - or avoided some - and that shame makes me feel worth less to myself. I have been no prize in the last couple of years; I have been a sad broken rather pathetic victim tbh. I don't much like that version of me but it is true, or partially true. I have not shaken things off and created a FU miracle life of climbing literal or metaphorical mountains. I have got lost and wallowed in my grief. And while I know what I SHOULD do, I frequently fail to do it. I sidle and half-try. And why do I do that? Bc I feel as if I have lost the abilities I used to have to do normal living...I am like a toddler learning basic stuff all over again. How to plan. How to play with other humans. How to care. How to laugh. How to hope. How to do all the basic stuff of life outside a momentary window. I used to be quite different. Perhaps I just don't like who I am now and/or don't know how to use her in the real world outside my head?

So, none of this is about MLC or my MLCer.
Some of it is probably a kind of complicated grief.
Some of it is like I have lost confidence in living. Which is weird. Or maybe I have just lost faith with my own living somehow. Perhaps it all feels a bit pointless or too ephemeral or too fragile.
But that is honestly where I am, this very strange kind of self-imposed limbo where I can do today and even tomorrow but next week and next month and next year feels a bit pointless and uncertain. And I feel incredibly alone in my living but also absolutely safer alone. Which is weird too.

Ah well, I shall press on with today and wait for inspiration to strike, therapy to unstick me or small actions to unlock something different.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Trustandlove

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #53 on: May 08, 2019, 11:03:10 PM »
Oh, treasur, you always write so honestly and eloquently.  And FWIW, I think what you are feeling is completely normal.  I know it seems like a lifetime, but it's "only" been a few years, and you have had serious trauma to deal with.

I can't see any shame in how you have responded, or dealt with anything, not in any way, shape or form.  As a matter of fact, I, one of the oldest timers still reading this forum, learn a lot from you.

I've recently had some days where I have been left wondering how on earth I got here.  I don't mean becoming an LBS, but the kinds of things you say -- I thought I had made good decisions about things that I needed to do in life, yet it seems that some of those might not have been perfect after all.

Now my sensible self says that I did the absolute best I could with the advice and information I had, I honestly did think I was laying the best foundation for my future (business, finances, etc.,), but now some other things are different (nothing to do with my MLCer) and it seems that I have to re-think again.

My critical self wonders why on earth I didn't have my crystal ball and make even more perfect decisions, taking into account all sorts of things that I couldn't have known a few years ago, why I didn't get it even more right. 

You said it exactly:  I have not shaken things off and created a FU miracle life of climbing literal or metaphorical mountains.

I've worked hard, extremely hard, over the last decade and a bit, but still life comes round to bite me.  I can't seem to build an impenetrable shield.  And I wonder if I'm just not working hard enough, if I'm denying reality, all that. 

And I find myself longing for my H, rather, for the H he used to be, and the security that brought.  The security of knowing that however bad things got, we would be in it together. 

Anyway, the point of all this rambling is that a few years really isn't a lot of time in the scheme of things when we are hit with what we've been hit with.  It IS hard to deal with, and my own opinion is that as long as we're putting one foot in front of the other we are doing OK.  The important thing is that the overall trajectory is upwards, and that takes that dreaded word TIME.

We frequently on this forum say that MLC takes more time than we ever could have imagined, and then some more; well, I think the same applies to our own recovery.  The reason we can't just shake it off is because it IS horrible. 

And for what it's worth, from where I'm reading you are just brilliant. 

Online Milly

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #54 on: May 09, 2019, 12:14:16 AM »
Treasur, once again you put words to my feelings. On one side, it reminds me that I feel stuck, too. On the other, it makes me feel more normal, as normal for someone who's suffered trauma.

I also think it might be important for us to embrace the fact that we are in limbo. Not too different from a MLCer's limbo. As RCR says, it's a place where you feel stuck. A place where nothing seems to happen, but neither does anything bad. She also says it's a place where there is a lot of thinking going on, although you can't see it on the outside. It often takes something external to proper the person forward. I wonder if this could be applied to the LBS, too. For me, it's helpful to consider this comparison.

Trust, how kind of you to come here and give us your view from someone who's been at it a while. I found your words very helpful and they show how full of grace you are.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Online Milly

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #55 on: May 09, 2019, 12:16:20 AM »
Another thing just came to me, since you live in the UK and it's all about Harry and Meghan right now and their in love marriage, baby, big refurbished house, mother flown in to live with them. Could it be affecting you a little? I love seeing their photos but I can't help feeling a little envious, too. They don't seem to have a problem in the world.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2019, 12:57:32 AM »
Fortunately Milly I stopped looking at the news much a long time ago. Brexit feels like a political version of MLC with Mrs May as the sane LBS trying to deal with the mess. Sad stories make me cry. Kind stories make me cry. Horrific marital stories make me cry (there is one here about a guy who works for the same bank as my xh who killed his horse riding wife, beat her head in, no idea why as the trial hasn't happened yet...everyone shocked as he seemed normal and their m a good one...could have been me I suppose.) I did avoid the wedding coverage bc it reminded me too much of what love feels like. Probably it is more the sense of time passing as everyone else I know does normal living while I haven't....but it is much more of an inner thing than an outer one tbh.

One of the aftershock feelings - which is real life of course but we pretend otherwise bc it is too hard to live by - is that sense of how suddenly life can implode. A photo of my father building a wall two months before we found out he had terminal cancer. A photo of my mother from 2015 where I can now see an echo of dementia in her facial expression but had no clue at the time. A note from an old friend killed in an accident a week later. Small stuff...but with big things lurking I suppose...and finding a way to live with gratitude once you know that reality is a bit tricky sometimes. Maybe not having kids or family makes it harder sometimes too?

Trust - amongst her other wise words - talked about wanting and maybe failing to build an impenetrable shield. I think wanting one is a residue of trauma. And we want it at exactly the same time as knowing absolutely how fragile things are no matter what we do. And I suppose that a shield keeps things out as well as protecting us. Including good things. That is a big bit of existential cognitive dissonance right there for a lot of LBS isn't it? How to be safe and value what we have whilst also knowing how vulnerable we are and how little control we have. No wonder roses and courgettes and a beautiful sunrise and a funny pet and chocolate and wine and going for a run are easier  :)

But unfortunately for me they do not seem to be big enough to build a life on...
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 01:14:03 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #57 on: May 09, 2019, 01:12:23 AM »
Quote from: Treasur
Maybe not having kids or family makes it harder sometimes too?

You may be on to something here..... I wonder if those of us with youngish kids are so busy focusing on them and their lives that we are basically dragged up out of the past, whether we like it or not... Having kids, especially school aged ones, seems to be like lurching from one mini-crisis to the next, fire-fighting if you will where the kids are little pyromaniacs....

Case in point... I am STILL waiting for STBXW's final D paperwork/court appearance notification to arrive (been nearly 9 months in process so far and should have been a 4-5 month thing) and that has been weighing on my mind (the anticipation when opening the mailbox every day)  but that is TOTALLY overshadowed by a love note from the school that showed up yesterday saying that S12 is failing math and, if he keeps going the way he is, he will be kicked out of the academic track .... So, the D thing is now (again) off to the side while my focus is getting S to get off his Cell Phone and his Hind end and get with it... It is not that he can't but he has the motivation that God gave a turnip.... So, lesson plans, searching out tutors, kicking S12 in the backside, all these things are taking priority over dealing with the WTF moments in a concerted way... They tend more to trickle through slowly rather than me actively seeking them out to get them behind me...
Me - 54
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Trustandlove

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #58 on: May 09, 2019, 03:49:42 AM »
I think Ursa has a point; I think that one of the reasons I have been having some more down days again lately is that my children are no longer small, and the day when they will truly leave for a home of their own is no longer just something wooly in the distance.

I spent many many years of this madness just keeping them on an even keel, dealing with the many issues that they have that have nothing to do with MLC, loads of doctors, therapists and goodness knows what, and then the ordinary bits about school, getting into university, all that.  It really is a great distraction from so much. 

And the end of that is looming, and with it some more of my security, the world feels a lot scarier right now.  I have to face and deal with things that I could always see as secondary to what they needed, and it's not fun.  I am more alone now, and that is scary on many levels. 

I know they will always need me, but it is normal and right that they should fly with their own wings, it just means that I wave from a distance....


Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #59 on: May 09, 2019, 08:44:08 AM »
First off..I can't remember...are you on anti-depressants? If not...maybe get a bottle?  ;)

If you can help yourself out of this little slump it would be good, because I have noticed over the last little while you seem to be having a lot more emotional pain. Perhaps that is just an observation because we come here to write about the hard stuff, but if it is affecting you to where you don't have the will to get out of bed...it might be worth a look.

Second of all I was going to say something similar to Ursa actually. I have three small kids, a dog, a house to run, bills, a career to plan, and study constantly looming. How is that relavent? It keeps my mind busy (not unlike a replay MLCer actually). My mind never has time to rest and dwell...but the occasional weekend when study is caught up, the kids are gone, the dog is chill....the brain just goes and goes. Sometimes on those rare quiet weekends I get mopey, and sad, and lonely and have time to think about it all. Those lovely weekends I should be enjoying can occasionally turn into a ruminating session.

I think because you have such a quiet life that you spend a lot of time in this thinky ruminating way...and it is keeping you a bit stuck in your limbo as you call it.

Definitely one of the reasons 'GAL' is so important...isn't just for self improvement, but also so you don't sit stagnant in this energy right?

So..I propose you make up a list of 5 things you have always wanted to do. Learn piano, watch a movie series, take up knitting, take a course at the local college for fun, volunteer with a charity....

Just do something to get you OUT of the house, and more importantly OUT of your head.

Bonus you might make a friend or meet a handsome cuddly guy who makes you forget all this madness.  ;D
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 08:46:27 AM by Mortesbride »
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2019, 12:36:26 PM »
I also think that not having kids or family makes it harder.. I have family but they are very far away and while they are just a phone call away, it's not the same as having family around.. I have a job that occupies some of my time but right now I'm not particularly happy with it and I feel "stuck" there also..

And yes, there are GAL activities like you said "roses and courgettes and a beautiful sunrise and a funny pet and chocolate and wine and going for a run"  but it all feels so pointless sometimes, doesn't it?

Lately I'm finding that some of my friends make me feel worse rather than better.. with all their plans and projects, new houses, new jobs, new babies... I'm happy for them but I can't stop thinking.. what about me? what long term plans do I have? What does a good life look like for me now? And I have absolutely no idea.. How can I possibly start taking steps to get the life I want if I don't even know what does that look like?

So I keep doing GAL things that pass time.. And time passes.. but I still have no plan.. and I don't even know how to go about making one.. So I go back to things that pass the time....  :-\
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.


"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2019, 11:04:36 PM »
So, stuckness....

PTSD froze me. Don't like that but it is the truth. I reckon I lost about two years when I barely functioned at all. How ridiculous is that? EMDR has unfrozen me and I reckon emotionally I am probably just playing catch up now. Which is a good thing but an irritating one.

Yes it is hard being without family in my life who are doing all the normal stuff around me. Is it harder without kids or family? Idk...other people's lives and needs are a good bit of normal, true, but I have not had some of the terrible struggles that others have had to protect their kids.

Grief...it's a slog. I lost too much and it overwhelmed me tbh. Yet I am also tired of feeling sad. I have come a long way, I no longer yearn as I did, but I don't value my life without all of them as I did before. I miss them and I miss me with them and I can't replace them.  Not wanting to die, just not sure how to do a new normal that's all. Am I depressed? No, I don't think so. Probably have some old depression 'habits' but the stuck feeling is a different kind of feeling altogether.

Good advice from Morte and I'm going to focus on that for the next couple of days. Action is hard when you feel stuck...but of course that doesn't change the reality that living IS about doing not thinking about doing. And I have spent too much time thinking. Feels like the starting line for a new marathon really lol. Which is ridiculous too.

And shame? Well I think that goes with PTSD et al. Truth is that I broke and turned out not to be at all as resilient as I thought I was. And some of how I reacted to these life events did make my situation worse. I can't change that bc it is done but the good thing about shame is that it makes you want to act differently. I think my biggest motivators now are that I want life to be more normal and I want to feel proud of myself again.

There are some real positives in my situation. Unlike others, my h selfevidently had a breakdown. I saw it and he was diagnosed and under psychiatric care. I have no doubt that he was profoundly mentally ill at least for a while and that I was naive about how fractured he was. And that unleashed a chain of events that I never imagined for either of us and could do very little to stop.  Tbh I suspect that part of his rage and rejection of me is that in his head somehow me or our relationship had kept his demons, as he called them, at bay for a very long time and (unreasonably of course) he felt that I had 'failed' him in some way. But perhaps it is also a testament to him, me and the authenticity of our love and appreciation that it worked for so long bc some of his early life issues are textbook horrific. I guess he sees that as ow's job now or his psychiatrists...I hope that he does get well again and deals with his own demons of course but I will probably never know. Ironically of course in crisis the behaviour adds new demons so I guess it may keep his psychiatrist and ow busy for a few years  :)
But ow is not me, not even close, so maybe God knows that my xh would never deal with his own baggage until there was nobody else able to keep it at bay any longer...and that he couldn't either so he had to deal with it. Pretty textbook Jungian psychodymamics stuff really where all of us real humans become objects in someone else's unresolved stuff I guess. But I am and have always been more than a bit player in my xh's head...and tbh it is crowded in there lol.

Minimal contact with a vanisher, divorce, no kids, his remarriage...all make it easier to accept that my m and my h are gone and that I have no idea what he felt/feels about anything. It happened, it was horrific, it was cruel and unfair and sad...but it still happened and no questions or answers will change that. I miss the person I loved but it is no different from missing my dead father tbh....just how life is...but it is also self evident that my then h decided that he wanted a future with no part of me in it and that is his path and mine now. It really is quite easy to think of him as dead and so I do. I was lucky to have had many lovely years but I would not want someone who does not value me or who wants to be unkind to me. Didn't before, don't now....we may all think there are lots of complicated reasons for him becoming that and they never made sense to me...but doesn't change the reality that he did and he is. Moving forward for both of us probably requires a different kind of acceptance of that. Tbh I would rather feel my shame than his if indeed he ever feels it. But his feelings are no longer part of my life; too busy doing the last tidy up on my own. Which also means accepting the basic incomprehensibility - for me - of why he did what he did and how he feels about what he did and if it turns out well for him or not. I feel grateful though that I have memories of my own life that I can now reclaim and smile about...bc my family live there and my homes and my old friends and my cats and many of my successes and joys. Just doing the last slog to line up how to start making new different memories that my brain can enjoy and that makes me feel good.

Tbh, PTSD is a strange experience and recovering is not for sissies lol...but it is do-able and even I know that there is better on the other side.  ;)
Small actions right Morte?

I found an old photo that my father had saved of me. I don't even remember it tbh. I'm about 5 and the photo is called 'with Tommy'. Tommy was a koala bear toy and I loved him. He got lost at Manchester airport, never found again, and it broke my heart as a child. I hadn't realised that my father years later even remembered his name....it is a really nice photo and full of all kinds of love...prompted some memories I had forgotten about the extraordinary lengths my parents went to trying to find him, practically an Interpol alert as I recall lol. And almost 50 years later my father had found this photo, scanned it and remembered how important Tommy was to me. Wasn't I lucky to be loved as I have been loved? So much good stuff in that one tiny photo which I will print out and keep by my desk...

And my mother is out of hospital.
And a new bank card arrived.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 11:32:05 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Online Milly

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2019, 12:17:07 AM »
Treasur, wonderful that your mother is out of hospital. And a new bank card in your wallet is a sense of security.

I hope the weather gives you some moments of sunshine today to spur you to get out and doing.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2019, 02:55:55 AM »
Much of what you wrote about your H could have been written about mine too.  A true mental breakdown of monumental proportions.

I do hope they both come out one day.  It would be sad to think they never find themselves and stay with a truly horrible woman who uses them.  The do both deserve what they now have and are unhappy, as we have always known.  It's only time which will reveal all but I'm sure you are as tired of waiting for that as I am.

Hope your mother continues to improve her strength.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2019, 03:42:06 AM »
Thanks, Savvy. Yes it is pretty sad. The difference for me is there is no waiting. My h is gone. I have given him into God's hands and wish him well. I genuinely do not expect to ever know what happens to him, if he is even alive or dead. And he was the most important person in the world to me so swallowing that down was not easy at all.

But on the plus side it does mean there is no waiting, no watching and no WTF madness either  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2019, 03:52:39 AM »
You know Treasur, maybe I am just weird but, besides feeling glad that your mom is out of the hospital and your card arrived, the thing that affected me most was your description of the Tommy photo and the love you described for your parents....

the parts about the PTSD, about the vanishing H and the mindmucking that happened I nodded too and thought "Yep." but Tommy  was the important part - the recalling of something real and genuine.... triggered by an old photo...
Me - 54
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2019, 03:58:36 AM »
Yup, Tommy really touched me too...my father would be kicking my a$$ now if he was here and bluntly telling me to get up off my knees, stop feeling sorry for myself and get practical. Bc I deserve better than I've had in the last few years but it is up to me to make it happen. My father was an engineer and Practical was his favourite word  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Thunder

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2019, 04:23:34 AM »
Treasur,

I'm happy to hear your mother is out of the hospital. I hope she can keep getting better, physically.

I have a question for you.  I know the treatment you have for your PTSD has worked very well for you to feel normal again.  Yay!

But I was wondering do they have any kind of plan for aftercare, for lack of a better word, for a patient to get a re-evaluated to make sure things are still progressing, or do they just know at the end of the sessions it was successful?
Just curious.

I had to go i for my bp check up yesterday and it just got my thinking. My blood pressure was spiking off and on for months so my doctor put me on blood pressure meds, which worked wonderfully to keep my bp in check.
However he has me come back every 6 to 12 months to recheck that the meds are still doing their job. 

I realize I am talking apples and oranges here because one is physical and the other is physiological.
Probably a dumb comparison but hey I'm only on my first cup of coffee.   ;D
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2019, 05:07:00 AM »
Yup, there is a review process but mostly based on my self assessment of where I am I suppose. My current work at the end of it now is about working with her to look at the Present and Futurd stuff...so actions and blockages that might be getting in my own way really.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Thunder

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2019, 05:16:45 AM »
Oh ok, that makes sense.  Thank you.   :)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2019, 08:19:34 AM »
And finally for you, Thunder, and anyone else who is interested, my allotment japes can be seen here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com/. Currently updated to March but more to come soon!
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2019, 08:23:45 AM »
And finally for you, Thunder, and anyone else who is interested, my allotment japes can be seen here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com/. Currently updated to March but more to come soon!
I'm running out the door now but looking forward to having a look at your site later!!  :)
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.


"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline Anjae

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2019, 01:29:30 PM »
Thank you for the allotmenet pictures, Treasur. Lovely.  :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2019, 05:29:39 PM »
Beautiful! Look forward to May blooms.

I am pleased to hear your mother is better and out of the hospital.

I loved the story of the photo of Tommy and yes, you were so lucky to have been loved and know such love. So much good stuff in that one photo and I like to think of Tommy the koala bear riding planes around the world, having adventures, but missing you, too, and looking for the Manchester airport.  Perhaps a children's story in the making....
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline Acorn

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2019, 05:59:58 AM »
Thank you, Treasur, for sharing the pics of your lovely garden adventures.
May you be like those tulips - Cheery, even though you may be living amongst the disordered ‘rows’ of this world. 
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Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2019, 08:49:28 AM »
OOOOO here's and idea...

You can make some homemade fresh jam for Tuscany! :)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #76 on: May 13, 2019, 09:08:41 PM »
Looking fabulous Treasur, I had a look about a year ago but lost the link.  It's growing just like you are - definitely in the right direction.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Online Milly

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #77 on: May 14, 2019, 01:02:54 AM »
Loved the update on the Little plot by the Sea! Your allotment is really coming along. Your garden stands out against the ones surrounding it. Yours is an oasis of order and colour and growth. Loved reading about the tool to make nice neat seed rows. Nothing like a bit of symmetry to calm me down.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #78 on: May 14, 2019, 02:16:08 AM »
Nice!
Me - 54
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #79 on: May 14, 2019, 11:27:52 PM »
Yesterday I spent the afternoon with a friend who lives in the village we used to live in until 2012. Usually we meet midway but her car had broken so I went there.

It was a beautiful day here yesterday, sunshine and hedgerows full of hawthorn blossom. Lime green new growth everywhere, birdsong and a big blue sky. It was a day to feel good about being alive. Turning off a main road brought me to our old village of about 200 people which is built essentially like an equilateral triangle, mostly thatched cottages of pale pink and cream surrounded by open fields with the church at one corner of the triangle. I was early so I parked by the church and took a stroll. Went to visit an old friend, Alan, who is buried in the churchyard. Went in to our old church to say hello to God and a few ghosts. What was interesting though was how grateful I felt for this few square miles of a place, how special this village is to me still even though I could never live there. I felt deeply conscious of my blessings, of how lucky we both were to be loved in this small place, of how it will always hold a corner of my heart. It was a day for counting ones blessings much more than mourning.

I met my friends new slightly stupid Abyssinian cat brothers...both very beautiful bronzed cats and intrepid killers but surprisingly stupid at the same time. Louis would have sneered at their vapid  posing in the sunshine, surrounded by all the bee-loving flowers of an English country cottage garden. We drank tea in the sunshine and then went to a small local plant nursery for a little plant R&R, chatting about old gardens and families and cats and politics and life as we mooched around, cooing at a beautiful blue pelargonium here or sniffing honey-scented alyssum there. And my friend helped me choose some climbers for the new garden at my house which I will plant this morning...jasmine bc it reminds me of my Middle East home as a child; a beautiful pure white Passion flower with bronze stems for my first London garden; yellow and white honeysuckle for the bees and a white clematis to grow on the trellis along with the rose planted there. Like me, my friend has strong emotions about plants...we were talking about a peony that came from her father's garden, just on the cusp of flowering in her own...and she insisted on buying me a white peony for my home here. Now to be known as Amanda's peony!

One of the things I regret most is that I was too battered and overwhelmed to take cuttings or transplant some of the plants from my parents garden before I sold the house. I understand why I couldn't but I regret it. However the people who bought the house are good people and keen gardeners so it occurred to me that I can still ask them when I go to visit my father's grave next month. My parents loved their garden and that was a happy place too.

Normal - and I am more grateful for it than I can say - seems to me to be less frantic than GAL effort. A time when the blessings and happy places and hawthorn moments are not overshadowed by the lost things but more of a grateful nod to them. Normal too is being able to look more calmly and kindly perhaps at just how much of our treasures were destroyed or lost and how unimaginably hard it is to start to rebuild a new life when we are in such pain and confusion. Yesterday seemed to rebalance my sense of shame about my own (not) coping skills somewhat; I still see my failures but I feel a little more respect for the scale of my losses and my courage in still being here at all. My friend and me chatted about how important that deepest bit of instinct is when life makes no sense at all. Looking back, the few instinctive decisions I made were often life or sanity saving game changer ones...leaving the old house, running away to the sea, saying no to contact with nasty crazy stuff, the urge to plant and grow things. There were only a few but they were very important. Moving forward is about more of those I think, less logic and more instinct. My friend said it showed that I had a deep sense of self preservation but I'm not sure that is what it feels like. It feels like a tiny bit of graceful optimism that disappeared out of sight sometimes but never entirely went away, the Babeish bit of me. Same bit that smiles at hawthorn blossom and a cat lazing in a pocket of sunshine and a church filled with the motes of love and happy ghosts. And that is perhaps my biggest blessing.

Today will be a good day of planting in morning sunshine, work and new schemes. The life I have instead of the life I had.  Light instead of dark. How lucky am I?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 11:32:58 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #80 on: May 15, 2019, 01:24:19 AM »
"Blessed are they who can see the beauty in the world around them, that see the light amidst the shadows, who can take joy and pleasure in the simple things for they shall have life and happiness in abundance..."

That is NOT in the bible or anyplace because I just made it up but it should be... the Gospel according to the Bear...

Sounds like another crossroads has been reached...

That'll do, Babe, that'll do!

Me - 54
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #81 on: May 15, 2019, 01:26:28 AM »
Ah, UM, you just made my good day even better  with that gif  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #82 on: May 15, 2019, 02:37:08 AM »
"Blessed are they who can see the beauty in the world around them, that see the light amidst the shadows, who can take joy and pleasure in the simple things for they shall have life and happiness in abundance..."

Nice :)

Sound like a good day with your friend Treasur. I am sure the new residents will be happy to let you take some cuttings if you explain why it is so important to you. :)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #83 on: May 15, 2019, 01:06:42 PM »
Another who finds normal far less frantic than GAL. I did GAL like crazy, normal is far better. Normal, of course, is GAL, since we are living.

"Blessed are they who can see the beauty in the world around them, that see the light amidst the shadows, who can take joy and pleasure in the simple things for they shall have life and happiness in abundance..."

That is NOT in the bible or anyplace because I just made it up but it should be... the Gospel according to the Bear...

Love this.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Thunder

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #84 on: May 15, 2019, 02:24:16 PM »
Treasur!!!  I am so excited!!!!

I just saw your post about your allotment...and had to go check everything out!   ;D

I haven't been around a lot because of some dental procedures I was having done so I missed this post.

Everything looks great!

I only have a patio and decided this year no flowering plants. I'm going with just some green Ivy's and a few other hanging plants, BUT I do have some patio tomatoes I'm planting out there tomorrow.

I might do carrots and radishes too.  I don't have a lot of space.
Anyway thank you for updated your site.  I will be watching all your stuff grow.   :)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Schratz66

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #85 on: May 16, 2019, 05:30:57 AM »
OMG Treasur - I love the link to your allotment and looks like it will be so much fun. Will definitely follow along and watch it grow and prosper.
Maybe you could approach the new owners of your parents house and ask to get some starters off the old plants for your allotment. How great would that be to have your parents plants right there with you.

And Ursa - stop it - we already know you are the smartest one around, but really, you just whip out these deep, profound sayings like it's nothing......maybe it's time for you to publish something - Bear Poetry and 2x4s
Me 52
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Shining Star

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #86 on: May 16, 2019, 08:09:33 AM »
T:  I love the garden by the sea.  So beautiful and soothing....

I am sure the new owners would let you clip some of the yard.  When you are ready, you might ask.  It would be nice to add to your own garden.
H:56, I am 54
BD: March 2014, Left Sept 2014, Back Nov 2014
Left again in February 2015.  Asked for D on 9/22/15
Said he was "sure" he wanted a D in Dec 2015; 
Admitted long term affair - May 14, 2017 - says he is in love with the "symptom" but wants to build a relationship with me with "clear expectations" WHATEVER THAT MEANS!  Settlement Agreement signed 9/20/17.
Divorce final 3/14/18.
NC - by choice - 1/2018

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #87 on: May 16, 2019, 09:37:33 AM »
Glad you guys like the pics...will keeep posting and maybe add an extra blog page for the little yellow and white garden too if only to share my first roses.

Only in LBS land...just walking back from buying a pint of milk and heard someone call my name. A chap called Chalky, a short bronzed tattooed Yorkshireman who I'd chatted to at the allotment occasionally. Know nothing about him really but I had mentioned my struggle with keeping the grass down and he went over to the plot this morning and strimmed it all down for me. I was so touched that I gave him a hug. And all he wanted in return was could he have a couple of newts from my well for his new wildlife pond. Of course I said, but in the spirit of barter I'll make you some jam when the fruit is ready too. Ah, he said...twinkling blue eyes and a cheeky grin...well I'm sure there are ALL kinds of things we could enjoy bartering....which made me laugh out loud. (It was cheeky but not offensive if you know what I mean  :) ) so in LBS land newts, allotments, jam and sex all in one short conversation...well, a new kind of normal I guess...who knew? Nice to be flirted with again actually even if it was a bit of a surprise lol.

On a slightly more serious note, my beach walk thinky in the sunshine this morning (and it was a beautiful morning here) was about recovery. I share it in case it is useful to anyone else. I remember reading on an old post (by someone whose h was pretty bonkers and had got remarried to ow speedily) that acceptance for her had two bits; reality and finality. That she found the first easier than the second. Which made me realise that for me it was/is the other way round. I accepted the finality of it probably in 2017...I simply could see no bridge unburned and it didn't make sense to me to try to keep crazy, nasty people or things in my life even if I did not understand why they wanted to hurt me....but accepting the reality of some of what happened has always been harder for me. Perhaps bc PTSD froze some of my responses. Perhaps bc my other losses meant that I could get finality like another death.

And that made me think about post-PTSD....which is probably where I am now. It would be lovely to think one goes in a mighty bound from PTSD to normal after EMDR. But I don't think it works that way exactly. I think while you have PTSD (and the same maybe applies to depression or anxiety) you develop PTSD 'habits' over time. Your brain recovers from PTSD but you are still left with some of the habits....so I think there is a very structured job to do then to break those habits and make new ones. That is probably just about where I am...but I do feel now that it is do-able and that a new normal is not so far away. Which has changed my to do list a bit too. (Have not yet added hot sex surrounded by newts or courgette plants though lol)

« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 10:11:10 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Thunder

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #88 on: May 16, 2019, 10:33:07 AM »
You made me laugh.  Remembering the first time some man (young man at that) flirted with me after BD.
I didn't know what to do, or how to act, it had become so foreign to me.
I guess it felt good but it was scary back then.   Still had the "T" on my forehead for taken, but apparently he didn't see it.  lol

How nice of that Chalky to help you out.  Now you have a barter partner.   ;D  Never know what he might come up with.   ;)

I'll be looking forward to seeing your first roses, Treasur. 
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #89 on: May 16, 2019, 11:34:58 AM »
What's that you said Treasur? Oh I couldn't hear you for the image of you meeting your new pal..


You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline PJ Ames

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #90 on: May 16, 2019, 01:27:09 PM »
I always love reading your story Treasur. Even though I don't have much to add, I always appreciate what you have to say and I learn so much from you. 

Quote
A chap called Chalky, a short bronzed tattooed Yorkshireman
This sounds like the beginning of a very interesting story. I can't wait to hear where this goes!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Married 1991
S: 24, D: 21 both doing great.

BD #1: June, 2016 - discovered EA with co-worker
BD #2: November 2018 - discovered online relationship with dude she met playing video games; she has never met him in person.
5-day separation (she left), November, 2018
W is trying (a little), but has no remorse. Nowhere near fully-cooked.

Offline Disillusioned

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #91 on: May 16, 2019, 01:43:22 PM »
Yes, Treasur "A Chap Called Chalky" has all kinds of possibilities!   ;D
M=51
W=47
D=8
BD Feb 17 Thinking of divorce
Atomic BD June 17 Spying revealed OM at work
Still home.  Threatened to leave several times and has asked me to leave about a dozen. 
Says divorce proceedings will start Jan 18.
She has scheduled mediation Feb 7,  2018
I moved out March 16, 2018
Several mediations, mostly instigated by me.  Foot dragging by STBXW.  Nothing filed. Yet.
STBXW filed D behind my back.

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #92 on: May 16, 2019, 01:49:48 PM »
I just caught up with the last few posts... I honestly think that the people who bought the house would be more than happy to let you take some cuttings. Specially if you explain how special it would be for you to have some of your parents plants in your new home..

I love your allotment!! I never really did any garden work and now I have a garden and a few flower beds to look after... Not the same but I might learn some tricks from your site  :) I will keep an eye on it! Definitely interested in yellow and white garden pics too!

And then off course I got to your last post... Well, well.. What have we got here? Chalky, eh?  ;D ;D
This kind of encounters are always a good little push for our own self esteem.. But what really caught me was that you actually laughed out loud.. Isn't that something in itself? Isn't that a very healthy sign? Something that a while ago you probably thought you would never do again.. I like it!  ;)

(Have not yet added hot sex surrounded by newts or courgette plants though lol)
Not yet... but who knows what the future might bring right?
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.


"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #93 on: May 16, 2019, 02:48:00 PM »
You had me at Chalky! I love it!

Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Anjae

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #94 on: May 16, 2019, 04:11:21 PM »
Glad you guys like the pics...will keeep posting and maybe add an extra blog page for the little yellow and white garden too if only to share my first roses.

An extra blog page for the yellow and white roses would be lovely.  :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Trustandlove

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #95 on: May 16, 2019, 11:04:36 PM »
As always, you find words to express things that I feel -- you definitely do have a book or two in you.

That it is two different things accepting the reality and the finality  --- I get that.  I think that describes what I have felt as well; not quite sure where I am on it all, but the reality took a while, probably because my situation has been a long-running one rather than lightning fast; the finality is in some ways easier (not quite the huge physical shock as all this was at first), but it isn't always so smooth either.  It is a work in progress, taking its time with me; I do still find it hard to believe, sometimes.  That he has so changed (dare I say messed up?) his life that it may well be final. 

I've always been one for believing that people are capable of great change, of growth, and so on, and I've always believed that they do come through these crises, but looking realistically at what is I can see that that belief might well seem somewhat unrealistic.  Not quite as final as death, but I really am not at all sure if there is enough (or even any) of the H I knew left for him to pull himself up and out. 

I think it is because as we all grow older, and I am more than a decade older than when this began, we are continually faced with scenarios where, had things been "normal" (whatever that is now), we would have faced them as a couple, be those happy family events or decisions about retirement, or anything else.  That is gone, there is a new normal but I sometimes still have to remind myself that it's only me, it is all down to me.  No respite. 

The fighting of crisis fires has now long since died down, but the rest is there, still for me to deal with.  The effects of his MLC have been long-reaching for me. 

Just a thinky, that's all; I do get up every morning and get on with it, I very much take joy in the many many good things in my life, that has been a wonderful lesson from this. 

But still. 

Offline Evermore

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #96 on: May 16, 2019, 11:20:47 PM »
As always, you find words to express things that I feel -- you definitely do have a book or two in you.


Agree. I don't comment much but I read all your words Treasur.
M: 48
H: 51
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 20
D: 18
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (44) - he met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Is now pressuring family to meet her.
Moved in with OW 'by stealth' Dec18-Jan19? (just started staying over and not staying at 'home' anymore (caravan at his brothers))

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #97 on: May 16, 2019, 11:39:52 PM »
But still...as you say, Trust.
Accepting reality is often a bit of a series of hiccups for me. What does it feel like? Idk. Like I can accept the today and accept the reality of those 20 years, but struggle still sometimes to accept the straight line going from one to the other. Probably bc it wasn't a straight line and wasn't drawn by me lol. It is much easier to accept today and the new next than it was, and that is a great blessing, but it may always be difficult to connect the reality of what was with what happened. Partly bc it was so very extreme and not normal perhaps.

Finality for me though was not about what happened with my xh, it was about MY finality. I even remember the moment when I got it in July 17. With all the mixed and conflicting emotions, I knew that my then h had crossed lines that I could simply never live with. Rightly or wrongly, no matter the reasons, I knew in my bones that I would never feel ok about myself or my life if I allowed that kind of cruelty and deceit in it. It wasn't about love or reasons or forgiveness or compassion. It was about a life that felt like it made sense to me. That I could never feel safe as myself with someone who could do what he did. There was a darkness in my h that once seen I could not unsee and I wanted no part of it. Actually I found it repulsed and scared me....that uncomfortable truth was my finality. I simply could not see him in the same way or believe that he was not fundamentally changed forever by it. As I was actually.  But accepting the reality of what had happened to bring me there has always been intermittently hard.

But Babeish can't live with that kind of darkness and I honestly felt....perhaps bc i had an angry vanisher so saw little evidence of anything but that lol...that the darkness had overwritten almost all of the light that I had treasured in the person who used to be my beloved.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 11:50:25 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Online Whyus

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #98 on: May 17, 2019, 01:47:39 AM »
Glad you guys like the pics...will keeep posting and maybe add an extra blog page for the little yellow and white garden too if only to share my first roses.

An extra blog page for the yellow and white roses would be lovely.  :)

An extra blog page for your "banter" with chalky is what we really Need  ;D ;)
Go T!  8)
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 45
W: 45 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 30) Trainings partner. W is actually getting People to accept them.
2 Sons - 19 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #99 on: May 17, 2019, 01:56:16 AM »
I do get up every morning and get on with it, I very much take joy in the many many good things in my life, that has been a wonderful lesson from this. 

But still. 
It's still early for me in all this so I cycle wildly but when I find myself in a calm cycle the words above describe exactly how I feel.. "But still" - without saying any more than those 2 words I think many of us know what that feels like.

Reality and finality.. I still have a way to go to get to either.. Accepting the reality of "right now" is probably as far as I have gotten..
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.


"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #100 on: May 17, 2019, 02:14:42 AM »
I do get up every morning and get on with it, I very much take joy in the many many good things in my life, that has been a wonderful lesson from this. 

But still. 
It's still early for me in all this so I cycle wildly but when I find myself in a calm cycle the words above describe exactly how I feel.. "But still" - without saying any more than those 2 words I think many of us know what that feels like.

Reality and finality.. I still have a way to go to get to either.. Accepting the reality of "right now" is probably as far as I have gotten..

And honestly that's ok, One day. We all find our own way to stumble forwards and often - maybe like MLC - I think we see the big shifts when we look back at our own progress. None of this is normal is it?

To clarify too, I am truly only talking about my feelings and my situation. I know my h loved and respected me for many years. I don't understand how he became someone who at least passively felt ok or satisfied in some way if I was frightened, threatened, humiliated or might die. That I deserved no respect or kindness at all. But I can see from his actions that he did...and the actions mattered more than the feelings. That wasn't normal for us, for him or frankly even normal for normal people. Once I accepted that peculiar reality though, incomprehensible as it is, that brought the sense of no return for me. I guess it felt healthier to live with No than with iDK....for me anyway. I have no idea how he lives with it. Other than lying to himself I suppose to make it normal or justifiable I suppose. But it never was normal for me and I knew I would never feel normal again if I tried to make it so.

And I got to a point where I yearned for normal more than I yearned for the h I knew and loved.

The life I have not the life I had. And the life I have does not have space for people who want to hurt me to make themselves feel better.

On a funny side note, saw Chalky's fab efforts at my plot this morning but chuckled bc one of my neighbours...an elderly married chap called Paddy...was slightly sniffy about it saying that he would have done it if I had asked him bc his strimmer is a better more powerful one.  :) You chaps are a funny species lol...lovely but funny  :)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 02:39:39 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #101 on: May 17, 2019, 03:06:32 AM »
On a funny side note, saw Chalky's fab efforts at my plot this morning but chuckled bc one of my neighbours...an elderly married chap called Paddy...was slightly sniffy about it saying that he would have done it if I had asked him bc his strimmer is a better more powerful one:) You chaps are a funny species lol...lovely but funny  :)

Aaaaaaannnnnnd <BOOM!>

Down the rabbit hole they go....

So, you now have the duelling gardeners <snort>

Me - 54
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #102 on: May 17, 2019, 03:53:43 AM »
My spade is bigger...

..No MY spade is bigger.  ::)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #103 on: May 17, 2019, 04:06:57 AM »
Ha ha...strimmers at dawn eh  ::)
I remember my uncle saying after his wife died that women in his neighbourhood did something similar with casseroles and cake....
Not the kind of male attention I am looking for tbh (not sure I am looking actually)...but happy to smile graciously and accept the free grass cutting  ;)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Savoir Faire

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #104 on: May 17, 2019, 05:45:04 AM »
Treasur,

Just let them fight it out between them.  You'll have the garden in tip top shape and tropical fruit growing from all the heat they will generate.  You can sit back sipping cocktails while they do the work ;D
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline Schratz66

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #105 on: May 17, 2019, 08:28:31 AM »
The Chalky and Paddy throw down - I love it  ;D
Me 52
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Anjae

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #106 on: May 17, 2019, 03:26:19 PM »
Savy has the right idea.  ;D

The Chalky and Paddy throw down - I love it  ;D

At noon! Or Sunset! Treasur, your thread is becoming very funny.  ;D



Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Busy_Bee

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #107 on: May 18, 2019, 11:39:04 AM »
I kind of like Paddy.. :)

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #108 on: May 18, 2019, 11:46:46 AM »
I like him too, Busy, but most folks don't. He is very grumpy and very harsh in loud opinions about people he sees as not doing things the way he thinks they should  :)
But I value his advice and he decided early on that I am not a complete vegetable idiot so he is quite nice to me....

He reminds me a bit of an old chap who used to look after my parents garden years ago when they were overseas. Always wore a cap, probably slept in it lol. They came home once to find that he had dug up their asparagus bed bc he said he didn't approve of 'furrin veg'.... :)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 11:50:07 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Busy_Bee

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #109 on: May 18, 2019, 12:00:43 PM »
Quote
They came home once to find that he had dug up their asparagus bed bc he said he didn't approve of 'furrin veg'.... :)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
That was really funny

I'm afraid Paddy has decided to take patronage over ....your vegetables :)

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #110 on: May 18, 2019, 12:10:39 PM »
In my experience, elderly grumpy people react well to having a purpose. (Not all, there are some narcissists out there) I sometimes think people get grumpy because they feel like they are not recognized for whatever usefulness they still have.

I'll bet Paddy loves it when you ask his advice. I don't suppose either want to jump the pond for a help out over here? In my neighborhood , no one offers help, they just write nasty grams if your weeds get out of control. Even if it is in your own backyard. You are fortunate to have people willing to help.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #111 on: May 19, 2019, 10:06:58 AM »
I am, OR....always used to be pretty independent but easier to be like that when you have a back up team of course. I suspect I may need to dust off my damsel skills...well until I am old enough to use my fragile old lady skills lol.

I have a friend who insists on looking at xh's social media occasionally. I've been clear with her that I am not interested and don't want to discuss it. Tbh, I think she does it more bc of her emotions...initially (other than me) she honestly believed he was mentally ill and would recover, so was standing as a friend in a way I suppose. Now tbh I think she is angry bc she feels like she was duped and wants to see the karma bus show up. Anyway, she sent me a picture of xh this morning - so I had to give her a loving boundary reminder - but it was an interesting experience which I share as encouragement that our perspective DOES change with the lovely infamous Time.  :)

The photo is taken at what looks like a party for his birthday in March, posted by a young work colleague who refers to him as 'her work dad'.  ??? She looks early 20s and the photo is of the two of them drinking 'OMG Pornstar Martinis'  ::) (I know...no words for that kind of feeble narcissism and the knowledge that these are the people who work in our financial services, sigh). Well, my xh looks dreadful. The two chins from his wedding photo that ow kindly sent last year have become three chins. He is wearing a white open necked shirt with a necklace around a very fat neck, dark jeans and has a huge overflowing gut that he never had in all the years I knew him.  Unshaven, dead eyes, grey, celebrating his big birthday with work colleagues in their 20s...actually looks like his father who was a short butterball of repressed rage. So whatever his new happy life is bringing, he doesn't look good. (To be fair, could be antidepressants or his new wife could be a great cook in their first year of wedded bliss, who knows). But what struck me which is more important is that for the first time he looked like a stranger to me. And not a very appealing one. Just a fat middle aged corporate wannabe from a small provincial town with no life. Even his smile looked different, a different shape. And this is after 3 years of his new happy....tbh he was almost unrecognisable.

Now I loved my h very much but even though he was younger, he was never my best looking bf...I just loved his face and his body bc it was his if that makes sense...but this guy? I felt nothing at all other than a bit of yuk bc he was such a cliche. I would not find him attractive or interesting at all if I met him now. Not just that he didn't look attractive but he had no sparkle in him if that makes sense, no oomph. It is easier for me to imagine a male stranger in my bedroom now than to imagine this fat, grey dull looking man...and I'm not even actively recruiting lol. Isn't that strange? I wonder if that means the love is dead now or if it is just the final healthy stage of detachment? Idk.

 But, hard as the last few years have been for me and my own sparkle surely took a kicking,  tbh I look better than I did pre-BD and he undoubtedly looks far worse. I have felt so conscious that my life just stopped for a couple of years while his apparently moved on with work and tattoos and weddings and new chums. And bc I did not snoop, I made all kinds of assumptions and I think in my head saw my h as he was just living a happier life without me in it. But the photo simply did not look like him at all, just a not very attractive stranger. Odd. No doubt in my mind that I got his best years and ow is getting his paunchy grey middle-aged years...hope she likes that as a prize! But for the very first time, I felt nothing and could not imagine that I ever did even.....very strange feeling after almost two decades when other friends and family - bc of course we all change a bit with time...still look like themselves in photos I see and feel like them if that makes sense. Just fatter/thinner/different haircuts...but still them. This didn't.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 10:47:51 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #112 on: May 19, 2019, 10:31:57 AM »
Actually, now I think about it, it is a bit like my mum. She no longer looks like her either even trying to look through the changes of age and ill health. Those of you who have experienced it know that there is a kind of dementia look...I first saw signs of it in a photo from 2014 when she did not know she was in frame...the dementia look is a kind of rigid, angry blankness, best way I can describe it, and I know that look well now. My xh's look is not quite the same but there is something a bit empty and dead and rigid too...very strange. I suppose the benefit for MLCers is that usually the new people in their life don't know the old version so I guess it looks normal to them...but my friend was as shocked (if a bit ruder) than I was. It really is as if someone has aged ten years in three.

Have others seen that too either in photos or in person?

I suspect above all my reaction to the photo of my xh said more about where my head is at than it said about him.  :)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 10:43:58 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Schratz66

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #113 on: May 19, 2019, 10:57:40 AM »
I believe we connect to other people with our souls and if their souls change they appear like strangers to us. Your mum unfortunately lost her true soul to dementia and xH lost his to Insanity.

Are you okay ? While I would think the moment itself of realizing you have no feelings looking at his picture is freeing and liberating, my mind then would snatch back into sad mode on how it’s possible that our spouses do become strangers. Not sure I’m explaining it right.
I just hope you’re okay even after the First excitement of realizing he means nothing any more.

How sad though that a grown ass man has to pretend to be half his age to feel good about himself. What would he even talk about with his young friends :)
Me 52
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #114 on: May 19, 2019, 11:37:13 AM »
I am ok, 66, but thank you for asking. It was just an odd feeling that's all. In a way when I get the odd burst of 'where did my beloved go' moments...as I do still now and then, just much less, I guess I just say in my head 'he's dead'. Which is weird I know but in my situation that is what it feels like tbh. Maybe my h felt the same about me...perhaps in his vanisher head I am dead to him too. Maybe the old him is dead to him as well or feels like a stranger? Which must be a weird feeling.

And it is a good reminder of why expecting any kind of answers, remorse or goodbye is pointless. No different than with my mother actually although in her case I have had the odd surprise hour with a glimmer of her.

And the younger work colleagues? Well, his new life with co- worker wife seems from the little I know to be centred around work friends and her friends. She is, I think, in her late 30s but seems to act as if she is in her 20s. I guess he gets to look like a big important guy with a glamorous life in a posh bit of London who turns up in the provincial town at the weekends ( financed by his aunt of course but others won't know that). I suppose if you don't feel good about yourself then hanging around with people who are impressed by what you seem to be is a pretty standard way to feel good isn't it? I would imagine that this is why so many MLCers remove lots of people as well as us...and why those who reconnect seem to do so gradually and also shed the MLC friends they had too. Just too difficult to be both versions of yourself I imagine. To be fair, my xh may be quite content...he just doesn't look like himself or look very good or healthy...but I have no idea how he feels about anything at all.

I honestly did stop believing that the person I knew would ever be seen again. That he had changed irrecoverably and forever. He undoubtedly had a breakdown and chose to make a new life/self bc he believed he would be happier. Which may be working just fine for him. I sometimes wonder if I am wrong, then it must hurt like hell to feel any reappearance of the 'real' you.

But I honestly don't know anything about who my xh is now which is strange when I knew so much about my h. It is a bit like the odd moment of lucidity that my mother has...when she knows what is lost and how awful her life is...heartbreaking to see. And nothing I can do about either of them but remember how very much love there was and how much they both mattered to me. But yes, their souls are no longer the same and I can't reach them as I did.

« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 11:49:03 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #115 on: May 19, 2019, 11:49:13 AM »
I had a weird thinking moment on my way to get the kids...

In summary it was about how I don't seem to love a person for their aesthetics on the outside, but what is on the inside.

All the men I have been with were drastically different...yet I did love them all in a way. But it has never been for their outside appearance. I tend to fall in love with their looks afterwards BECAUSE I love them if that makes sense.

To me a body is just a vehicle for the soul or personality.

At any rate I was on a whole different train of thought about it but...it came to mind when reading your post because...

If he was still the man you loved, and got a bit podgey round the middle and sported a third chin...you would still love him because he was him. But you are not longer in love with him...so you can see him for what he is. A man in his state with a good personality might have you soften and be accepting of his flaws, but with him you can see the nasty on the outside and on the in.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #116 on: May 19, 2019, 11:56:23 AM »
Makes perfect sense, Morte...I was always the same...insides are where the unique stuff is  :)
Perhaps it is evidence that my love has finally died off.
Or that he is simply no longer the same human at all.
Or that I can only see the bad.

To be fair, a photo is only that. I have no idea how it would feel if I saw him in person or heard his voice.

But it feels like a big deal to me. I no longer love my h/xh. And that feels good. Don't hate him either. I feel...bleh, nothing.

Which is why I wondered if other people have had the same feeling after a few years...maybe this is part of Normal  :)


« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 12:54:48 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #117 on: May 19, 2019, 01:07:33 PM »
Well unfortunately (fortunately?) mines is of the Clinger variety so...our situations are a bit different.

I have seen only 2 pictures of Beast post BD. One was a Polaroid hidden in his wallet on Christmas day, and the other was on OW car key chain. In both pictures he looks...flat. Dark dead eyes..a small pinched smile. Empty is the word that comes to mind. She of course is grinning like a demented Cheshire cat...eyes bugged wide like she is ready to eat you. I always thought seeing a photo of them together would hurt me, but it didn't because...it just doesn't look like him. It looks like a photo you see on the news, before they tell you a story of some horrific murder, and then you look at the pic and say ''Oh yeah you can totally tell...look at his eyes! You can see he was a psycho''.

So I think if I didn't have routine interactions with him, and just saw the picture...I would still see the same thing. An empty haunted man. I can't imagine I would find it attractive. I certainly didn't when I saw him.

But seeing him in person does add a bit of a new element on it. Some days I see him and he looks like he is doing okay, and he has all the charm and personality I remember...and it pulls on the heart strings of what once was. What might return one day, or what may never be again. Those days are probably the hardest afterwards. They make you question yourself, if maybe he just left because ''you grew apart'', maybe ''MLC isn't real''...they are hard on your ego and your mind. But they seem to give hope to your heart. Hope that he is still in there, somewhere. That maybe he is the guy you thought he was.

Other days you see him in person and he LOOKS tired and ill. He has no energy for anything, is fed up with life, falling out with everyone around him...and just anger. Anger at everything. You notice the dark psycho eyes, the lines starting to form between his eyebrows and his new crows feet that he didn't have before...what seems to be a constant decrease in his body weight. I know just by looking at him that he is having a hard time mentally. That no matter what it may seem like to me, from my point of view, he is not happy. Not in the slightest. Those days are easier for me because it validates that I am ''right'', that something is 'wrong' with him...that it isn't all in my head. But they are harder on my heart because you wonder if he will ever come out of it. If he was ever the person you thought he was, or maybe it was just an act he could no longer perform.

Unfortunately these two shift and change...I want to say within a week, but even on a day. He might turn up one way in the am, and be completely different by that afternoon.

So what does this have to do with you? I guess my point is...with a boomerang/clinger you are gifted with this painful insight of fluctuation. You have to watch this battle within themselves and the toll it reaps. The constant change in how they feel, and think, and act. With a vanisher you don't get to see any of this. You can only base it on 'script' and the pictures you see of his life. But the pictures don't tell the whole story. Not even a fragment.

I reckon if a stranger saw a picture of OW and Beast they would just think ''They look okay I guess, but something's weird'' and maybe they wouldn't be able to put their finger on it. If it was uploaded to FB it would get liked and shared by friends...told how wonderful they look or whatever...but no one is going to mention the darkness they see are they? Or perhaps you can't see it if you don't know the story.

Perhaps it just looks like your husband is having a great time at his party, with a group of kids half his age. Frankly I think that says a lot as an outsider. ::)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Anjae

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #118 on: May 19, 2019, 03:25:47 PM »

I believe we connect to other people with our souls and if their souls change they appear like strangers to us. Your mum unfortunately lost her true soul to dementia and xH lost his to Insanity

Interesting view, Schratz. I still see my paternal's grandmother soul even if she has Alzeimer's. Mr J's one? Not really. His soul is depressed and, often, gone.


As for the MLCer's physical changes, that happens to many of them. Mr J was a slender, good looking man, he become a pot belly, two chins, bloated creature whose arms belong to some other man. His eyes are dead and one is almost closed. He looks like he hasn't sleep in a decade or so. When I see a photo of him I often only knows it is him because of his name. Otherwise, he would be a stranger to me.

I like hansome men, however, handsome alone doesn't do it for me when it comes to love/relationships. The inside is important to me.

If he was still the man you loved, and got a bit podgey round the middle and sported a third chin...you would still love him because he was him. But you are not longer in love with him...so you can see him for what he is. A man in his state with a good personality might have you soften and be accepting of his flaws, but with him you can see the nasty on the outside and on the in.

Thinks this is the heart of the matter. In some photos Mr J looks like a bad, unhealthy, version of FIL and that, to me, is creepy. Had we remained together, he may, over the years, look a bit more like FIL, but it would had been different. It is the difference between growing old together with someone you love and becoming separated and look at this person we once loved and do not recognise in any way.

And, at least for those of us whose MLCer left when we were in our 30's and now we're on our 50's it is a big visual shock.


Which is why I wondered if other people have had the same feeling after a few years...maybe this is part of Normal  :)

Other people have the same feeling after a few year and it is part of Normal.  :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #119 on: May 19, 2019, 04:26:27 PM »
You know, Treasur, I had a similar experience a while back I passed right by exh at S (then 18) 's school. I didn't recognize him. That guy was no one I know. XH also does the opposite of the flat demeanor now. He's HAPPY, ANIMATED, HAVING A GREAT TIME. All the time, if I would believe his antics around his family. Oddly enough, they no longer believe him, either.
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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #120 on: May 19, 2019, 08:25:37 PM »
A useful confirmation for you Treasur.  He is a different man.  He may be happy in his different-ness but if he is, then he is clearly not a person who would derive happiness from the same things you do (and he used to).  Sounds like you having nothing in common at all.....except 20 years history :-\
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
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OW confirmed Feb 2013
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BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
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Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #121 on: May 19, 2019, 10:32:39 PM »
Well, it has been three years and he is someone else's' husband, so probably a good thing and long overdue lol  :) We don't even have the history in common I suspect as he has rewritten it and evidently placed no value on it at all. Today tbh I wish I had never known him at all...at the same time I am grateful for the relationship we had and the experience of loving and being loved as I was. Odd but lots of this LBS experience is odd isn't it? I guess I'm assuming that God knows what his plan is for me now but I am content that much of what I treasured was Real and healthy and worth treasuring...and that we both treasured each other for many years and that is understandably hard to pack away. Or it was for me anyway. Not sure any of this will ever feel normal really...but I do have faith that there is normal on the other side of it.  :)

Funny though to reflect on the bits that have been easier to 'get' or decide on in the middle of so much confusion. Keeping my name. Keeping my vows until the divorce was done. Using NC and no snooping for my own sanity. Never wanting to remarry. Running away to a new house by the sea. Never believing I broke him but absolutely getting that he was broken in ways I couldn't understand. Not wanting to hurt or disrespect someone I loved and valued. Accepting that there was nothing left to stand for but myself and my own healing. That none of this felt normal for him or a normal way to end a marriage. That it was reasonable to expect respect and kindness...but also futile bc it wasn't going to happen. That my h's shift into seeing things and me as worthless or hating what he once most loved made him unreachable by love or logic....but it did not convert those things or me into being worthless. There is a peace that comes with all of that. Or for me there is anyway.

As Morte says, there is a difference that comes with the practicality of disappearing spouses one doesn't see. Does reduce the hard work of crazy but maybe means the 'old' them lives in your head for a bit. I have no idea how I would feel or react if he contacted me bc he was in big trouble, as Morte posted about on her thread; I am absolutely sure though that my xh would be indifferent if the same was true for me bc he has been for so long now. A stranger in the street would be kinder.  Again makes no sense to me when you spent years loving and liking someone who did nothing to harm you but hey ho, it is as it is. He is a broken thing and he trashed his life and mine until it broke too. Oooh, look, a bit of anger...also a good thing probably...and maybe I couldn't be open to new love and life until I completely stopped loving my former h or wanting to keep a bit of it...so today I feel grateful for the weird universe gift of the unsolicited photo too  :)

I need a kinder gentler life than I have had for the last few years...
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 11:38:13 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #122 on: May 20, 2019, 12:45:43 AM »
The seeing them in pictures vs. real life thing is , as Mort said, really kind of odd...

In pictures, there is the perfectly styled, dressed up, wanna-be manikin version with no life in her eyes or emotional expression on  visible through the mask....

In real life, there is the "still loosing weight, clothes hanging off of most parts but having a belly poking out now but trying desperately to appear 'young'" look...

And yesterday she made a comment about one of D8's friends mom's looking at her belly as if she were pregnant (it DOES look like that - say 4th/5th month....)

Neither version is reconcilable with the person I married in 1998..... or even the one that I celebrated our Anniversary with in 2015.... (when the MLC was already in progress)
Me - 54
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #123 on: May 20, 2019, 03:40:16 AM »
The seeing them in pictures vs. real life thing is , as Mort said, really kind of odd...

In pictures, there is the perfectly styled, dressed up, wanna-be manikin version with no life in her eyes or emotional expression on  visible through the mask....


Gosh, if this photo was a 'styled wanna-be' version, my xh must look truly dreadful in RL  ::)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #124 on: May 20, 2019, 03:45:07 AM »
The seeing them in pictures vs. real life thing is , as Mort said, really kind of odd...

In pictures, there is the perfectly styled, dressed up, wanna-be manikin version with no life in her eyes or emotional expression on  visible through the mask....


Gosh, if this photo was a 'styled wanna-be' version, my xh must look truly dreadful in RL  ::)

Na ja, Treasur, like Mort, I have an alien Face-hugger Clinger so the only photos I see are those that she is posed/made-up. dressed up for.... We have no "mutual" friends on FB, she dissed all of the people that "we" were friends with and took up with her own "clique" so to speak so , aside from the kids, we have no mutual point of contact where I'd get to see candid photos like you did...

If someone took a photo of her in her natural habitat, it would probably be similar (but different) to what you say - "Wow... Who IS that anyway?"
Me - 54
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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Offline Maleficent

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #125 on: May 20, 2019, 03:54:11 AM »
Treasur, when I read you first post yesterday, I wondered perhaps we looked at them with "loving eyes" and did not notice the effects of aging.  But, some of the transformations people have described over time, and what I have seen of my own H recently after a long absence, really make me wonder who they have become. Or who they are pretending to become? And different days they may look like different people. It seems more than "normal" aging.
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline sachat3

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #126 on: May 20, 2019, 04:20:04 AM »
Is it just me that’s now sat here imagining what everyone looks like and wondering if they look like the image I have in my head of them haha!
Me - 27
H - 34
3 children together D2 D5 D7
Together - almost 8 years

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OW discovered - December 2017

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #127 on: May 20, 2019, 04:26:54 AM »
I never fit the image people have of me in their head.

I think people imagine a nose ring, tattoos, dark hair....or something.  ::)

Usually see me and go  :o didn't expect that.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #128 on: May 20, 2019, 04:28:43 AM »
I suppose rationally (unless they have a portrait in the attic lol) they morph into their new persona and sometimes that comes with lifestyle changes that are not so healthy. And they look different bc they ARE different. And we start to see them over time as who they ARE not who they WERE particularly if we don't see them regularly.  But as UM says, my xh is unrecognisable almost from photos pre-BD and has aged significantly more than my other friends have in three years....his new happy for whatever reason is apparently not good for his health or looks.

Compassionately, I guess too that if we believe they are in crisis, then depression and inner angst will eventually write its effects on their faces and bodies too. I know that when I was at my worst I looked grey and gaunt and dead-eyed too. I don't now, but looking at photos from 2016 I feel very sorry for the poor creature I was. But I still looked like me, just a really battered sad version...no mask. And now I am still thinner but look younger strangely probably bc I am no longer walking around in fear and pain.

But more importantly, that sudden flash for me of seeing who he IS now and realising that I don't feel the same...that was a big deal for me. Perhaps the person i loved was the one I remembered and this very different one is the person who ghosted his way out of a long marriage, abused people who trusted him and ran away from being a sane decent adult? There are not enough Pornstar Martinis in the country to make that an attractive quality in a man are there?  ::)

Sach..I'm sure we all do that...it is funny being so open with strangers we don't see. But when we do meet up in RL, I think all of us conclude pretty quickly that our spouses were maybe always lucky to have such attractive funny great LBS.  :) some of us will get to see in Tuscany of course lol...I hope it isn't like reading the book and then being disappointed by the actor they choose in the movie!
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #129 on: May 20, 2019, 05:51:22 AM »
Funny, bit sad today. I suppose a bit of me liked having a left over bit of love in me.

On a 'so script' note, story in the press here of two xws doing a makeover show...one of whom freely admits that she struggled after her rugby playing  h of 11 years/together over 20,  2 small girls took part in a celebrity dancing show in 2013 and ran off with his ow dance partner.

What amused me in a very 'ow script' though was an article with ow talking about how they have had one baby, and are planning to get married and have another. Meanwhile the xh does another interview saying no they are absolutely not and it looks as if their relationship is now hitting the rocks after 5,years or so   ::) but the vomit-inducing bit is how dancer ow describes the xw as a 'headache', that 'it is all in the past and we are a family now' (him, her, the baby and xh's two 10 year old girls from his marriage), that 'the girls love me and we are very close although they do have another mum of course'. I wanted to punch this woman in the face...talking about the Xw like an inconvenient baby producer for her 'new' family and conveniently ignoring that she and the h and the w AND THEIR KIDS posed in publicity photos in 2013 while ow and xh were having their affair.(and yes, this is ow's third marriage wrecking rodeo....I may be biased too bc she look a bit like xh's ow, so maybe the punching desire is displacement lol)  These are crappy people, really crappy and completely Script...but I feel sad and a bit ashamed tbh that this kind of crappiness became part of my life story. I can't change that but I don't like it.

There was a recent CL post which is worth a read. It is a reminder of two things; that there is a shoddy cliched predictability that comes with infidelity, a chess game with limited moves. And that we LBS take a while to see that because we are by and large very good quality humans who are loyal, generous, kind and honest. That this may leave us on the back foot for a little while until we get the Script but those are also the very good qualities that will create a good happy healthy loving life no matter what happens with our marriages. And that seems to me to be true and worth remembering...I am often astounded by the courage and humour and integrity and sheer heart of other posters here.

So, a shout out to every lovely LBS here  :)...your spouses are broken fools and your worth is beyond rubies  :)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 06:19:15 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Evermore

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #130 on: May 20, 2019, 06:11:39 AM »
Thank you Treasur. Right back at you.

Yes, you’ve hit the nail on the head. I always was so pompously sure we were so far above all that low life cheating palava. That could never be us (in fact I said just that to some girlfriends only several months before BD). I got that wrong didn’t I.
M: 48
H: 51
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 20
D: 18
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (44) - he met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Is now pressuring family to meet her.
Moved in with OW 'by stealth' Dec18-Jan19? (just started staying over and not staying at 'home' anymore (caravan at his brothers))

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #131 on: May 20, 2019, 06:32:29 AM »
Well, most of us did Ever...our friends and family were just as shocked as me though which made me feel less of an idiot! Maybe we were complacent or arrogant...but tbh we usually had years of reason to feel that way and to assume what we assumed bc we never could have foreseen this kind of WTF stuff. Bc we are not broken folks at heart.

But here is the truth which we LBS CAN lose sight of in our struggles.
YOU were above that kind of shoddy disrespectful destructive palava. Bc you are a sane decent adult who knows what matters in life. To be fair, some of our spouses used to be like that too...until they weren't. But the shame is not yours no matter how people in RL might see it....the shame gets carried by your h or xh....you get to carry the good stuff with you moving forward as long as you keep that snarky inner 'not enough' voice at bay. YOU were always enough....so was I...whether bc of MLC or character, your h and mine stopped being good enough for US truthfully. And just as the Script is so banally common, it really does seem that shoddy choices and shoddy people do over time get the inevitable consequences of that too...a different kind of Script maybe. We all doubt it; I know I have even if Morte is driving the yellow karma bus lol. And it takes longer than we might wish. But the consequences come without us doing anything at all. Maybe we might not even see it. But there are so many stories here that MLC trumps divorce and happy fixes, that years later while the LBS is just fine, these folks are still full of rage and depression and self-pity and consequences.

I suspect the photo of my xh is evidence that a little bit of karma is already unfolding for him.....
But the more detached we become, the more we care about our own karma I think...still a little bit of karmic payback is ok to accept if it pops up right?  :)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 06:36:53 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #132 on: May 20, 2019, 09:37:38 AM »
Just a fat middle aged corporate wannabe from a small provincial town with no life.


This had me laughing out loud as I read it!  I have often thought the same thing when I see photos of my H.

Loving where you are in all this--that it doesn't seem to affect you. That he looks like an undatable stranger. I have those thoughts about my H form time to time as well when I look at him. And honestly hoping that with more NC that I will get to where you are now. I know it was/is a long hard road. But wow, you have taken this whole GAL/improve-as-a-person-thing to  a whole new level. I always love reading your posts Treasur. You are sounding so wonderful. I love that you still have such love and grace in your heart. To me, that is the epitome of a healing/healed soul.  B/c it would be so easy to become bitter.
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Online Milly

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #133 on: May 20, 2019, 12:43:38 PM »
What Kit said!
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #134 on: May 20, 2019, 12:56:13 PM »
To be fair, some of that may also be bc my h genuinely was a good human, husband and friend so many people - not just me - stood for him for a long time and would want him to be well again. The fat dude in the photo? No, he is hard to respect or value - he's a pretty terrible person who has done some horrible things who you wouldn't trust to babysit your hamster - but a lot of people really respected and cared about my h before he blew himself up and discarded their support. He earned that support bc of who he was for years....but of course even that eventually runs out.

But yes too, I am proud that I fought so hard to not let the dark stuff take root in my spirit so I shall graciously accept the compliment, thank you  :)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 01:01:17 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Nerissa

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #135 on: May 21, 2019, 12:28:39 AM »
It’s all very surreal and very sad.  I guess it will always feel a bit like that, despite finding your/our own closure.  Glad you are feeling better.

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #136 on: May 21, 2019, 07:56:02 AM »
I do wonder if your friend sending that picture was actually something that needed to happen at this point in your recovery... You have progressed so much and you have dealt with most if not all of your feelings and emotions but sometimes I feel you still have questions about your xH and you wonder what his life is like now... Is he happy? Is his new life worth the destruction he left behind?  And that picture summed it up, didn't it? And more important, you got to see/feel your reaction and you were surprised at what you felt (or didn't in this case)

I haven't seen my H or heard his voice in 5 months, I have very little contact with him and when I do, it's all very polite but business like.. I have very little view of what he's doing or how he is.. As it was pointed earlier in this thread, I still feel the connection and the love to the person he was and because I don't see enough of the new person (who I might not even like never mind love), I keep looking back rather than forward because I have no other reference ... I still have the illusion that my H is in there somewhere... I would welcome any sign of the universe to tell me that's not true because I can't see myself moving forward until my brain gets that confirmation..

I love what KiT said too.. You really sound good and it's all down to all your hard work and effort to heal from the awful blows you got in quick succession, MLCer H being only one of them.
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.


"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #137 on: May 21, 2019, 09:13:42 AM »
You may be right, One day. Sometimes we need to let these things sit for a bit until we can figure out what they mean to us don't we?

I am ok, but I probably sound a bit more 'good' than I always am. A bit of me - just as you describe - dips back occasionally bc you are forcing yourself to accept a reality that is still sometimes surreal to me. And my xh said so little and ghosted me for so long that a bit of me just wants to shout and prod for answers sometimes. There is no closure at all really with a silent vanisher...just absence and speculation...so I do loop round it now and then. It is natural that your brain searches for information and reasons as part of trying to come to terms with it and move forward. This isn't a normal life experience or way for a long relationship to end is it? And we get it here, which probably saves our sanity, but it is harder in RL and when we are alone.

 But fortunately it is an ache rather than a gut wound now and my head is in charge and knows what is futile and self-destructive, so I never act on the feeling. But for months and months, I used to have conversations with him in my head...I am grateful that I rarely do that now, but when I did of course I was talking to the man I knew not the fat dude in the photo. It is easier to accept that the deadeyed guy in the photo is a toxic stranger and I feel no need to talk to him at all. I genuinely have no idea if any part of who my h was still exists...but it is easier in the absence of evidence to assume not, to take the little I saw at face value as who he is now. If there is some bit of him in there, I have no idea how he sleeps at night though lol. Well, judging by the photo, maybe he snacks on pies at 2am while talking to me in his head too  :)

But it is a cruel thing to live with and that lack of closure does suck you into looking back a bit I think. Folks here with disappearing spouses who said little know that feeling. It is a brutal thing to do to another human being I think and it doesn't feel less brutal just bc you intellectually know that it really isn't about you.  But again now it is for a few minutes rather than for days. I go there but I don't stay there if that makes sense. I often am bemused (and a bit frustrated) that my brain can accept both my father's death and my mother's dementia even, but I still struggle with what happened to my h.

Actually I have been known...mad woman alert  :)...to shout out loud 'he's dead so you can't talk to him' if I can't shake it off quickly. Loopy, I know, but I think it's ok to do what works. I think for those of us with unseen vanishers, the main challenge is to unhook the old from the now and find a bearable way of reminding ourselves of what is factually real now. What have you tried so far that helps you do that like my 'he's dead' shout?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 09:24:39 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Dumbfounded

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #138 on: May 21, 2019, 11:06:38 AM »
"Have others seen that too either in photos or in person?"

I see LB almost every weekend at S's basketball tournaments or when he appears in sinner's row at church. Aside from the fact that his presence makes me uneasy and uncomfortable, I feel the same about him as you did seeing the picture of your xH. He has aged 10 years in the last three, he has gained a good deal of weight and his face now has a very lost, empty look about it even when he is smiling or talking. He is a stranger to me. I feel no connection to him and from just watching him at basketball I would not consider a date with him if he were a stranger.

I often wonder if he looked like this to other people when we were married of if he has, in fact, changed into this lost wandering person since BD.         
Married 1998
MLC H 48
LBS W 47
D16, S12
BD March, 2016
Left home Sept 4, 2016 - living with parents
H filed for D - July 24, 2017
D final March 14, 2018 - still living at parent's house

“You've seen my descent, now watch my rising.”
― Jalaluddin Rumi

Offline Anjae

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #139 on: May 21, 2019, 04:07:57 PM »
One Day may have a point. I am not against LBS seeing the MLCer here and there (I am talking about those LBS whose MLCer isn't always around/in contact) even if just in photos.

In fact, it can help the LBS to see what a total mess the MLCer is. LBS often think the MLCer's life is fantastic. It can be, money or travel wise, but no one with a good, healthy, happy life looks the way MLCers end up looking.

Actually I have been known...mad woman alert  :)...to shout out loud 'he's dead so you can't talk to him' if I can't shake it off quickly. Loopy, I know, but I think it's ok to do what works.

Totally fine with me. If it helps you and works, why not?  :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Trustandlove

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #140 on: May 21, 2019, 11:15:15 PM »
You know what, treasur?  I still sometimes have conversations with my H in my head; those are quickly followed by a stern admonishment to myself that this accomplishes nothing, but it does still happen.

Even with someone who didn't vanish completely for a long time.  There appears to still be a part of my brain that somehow still sees "him", I mean the person I knew, not the one inhabiting his body.

I, too, have recently seen photos that show him so very different, and not in a good way, although I haven't seen him in person for over 2 years.  Yes, it helps to confirm that he is a mess, but I think that the bit that remembers what he was and could be is still strong.

Perhaps because there were a number of times during this crisis that I did see the person I knew emerge, the last time for a long period, only to run away again. 

I don't know if it helps you or not to know that it does still happen, but I do think it is normal.


Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #141 on: May 21, 2019, 11:27:43 PM »
Thanks, Trust. Helps a lot.
Don't know if it was the same for you but I had no previous life experience that came even close to this. Zip. And a lot of wild thoughts and emotions and events. It helps tremendously to feel heard and validated sometimes. And to know that something weird is normal so I'm not insane...or if I am, I am in good company  :)

I do think that some of my experience has been shaded by losing my parents and my h at the same time but in different ways. That taught me how to do grief and accept loss that I couldn't control. But they are different kinds of ghosts in my head and they seem to operate differently.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Trustandlove

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #142 on: May 22, 2019, 04:35:39 AM »
Nothing remotely like this, nothing.

And I didn't even have a fantastic childhood, I sometimes think that because it was me who had the dysfunctional FOO it should have been me having the MLC...   but no, it turned out to be H, the one who grew up in a loving family, even if they weren't materially well off.  Go figure.

Finding out my children had what are euphemistically called "issues" was a shock, it was the kind that took years to get used to, to realise that I wasn't going to have the kind of life I thought I was awful, but still nothing on this scale.  But it was the only thing I had to even begin to compare loss and horror to.   I knew I would have to get used to not having "perfectly normal" children, and I did, but it still pales in comparison to this. 

I used to hate it when I was sent the "Holland" story -- the one where you get on a plane thinking you're going to Italy, but land in Holland, and have to find Holland lovely.  That one was around a lot when I was finding out about my childrens' disabilities; I've seen it sent to LBS as well. 

This is off the scale, though -- at least with disabilities no one says "no big deal, this happens all the time", and those also are completely out of our own control -- no one thinks it was our fault, and there are at least some recognised support systems. 

So everything you are feeling is absolutely, completely and totally normal; I would even venture to say that you sound so much better than so many, and miles and miles better than I was at that point -- I was still crying more or less all day then.



Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #143 on: May 22, 2019, 04:44:37 AM »
I think the Holland story works...but only if you get off the plane to find Holland has been invaded by zombies, you have no money, don't speak Dutch....and are trying to figure out how to get to Belgium which you've heard is nicer  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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Offline Shelly7435

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #144 on: May 22, 2019, 04:50:49 AM »
Agreed!
M 52
H 47
M 12 years; together 17 years
D17, S27
Summer 2014 - H wanted to runaway
9/14 I was diagnosed with Breast cancer
11/14 Surgery for BC..3 day after my father dies
11/14 BD 2 days after surgery. I have no passion for you.
2/15 moved out
Dated each other all year affection back on..
3/16 moved home
7/16 Diagnosed with Breast cancer again
8/16 No affection again. I knew something was wrong.
9/16 Another surgery for Breast Cancer
9/16 BD 11 days after surgery discovered -EA with much younger W from Work. That is over. I think he has meaningless flings. Work is his mistress
10/16 I filed for D (financial reasons)
10/16 I moved out.
10/16 Now off and on vanisher
5/17 Divorce final

Online One day at a time

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #145 on: May 22, 2019, 05:39:35 AM »
I think the Holland story works...but only if you get off the plane to find Holland has been invaded by zombies, you have no money, don't speak Dutch....and are trying to figure out how to get to Belgium which you've heard is nicer  :)
Yep, sounds a lot more like it!   ;)
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.


"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #146 on: May 22, 2019, 08:17:14 AM »
I think the Holland story works...but only if you get off the plane to find Holland has been invaded by zombies, you have no money, don't speak Dutch....and are trying to figure out how to get to Belgium which you've heard is nicer  :)

That sounds like something I would routinely dream.

I always have weird ass zombie apocalypse dreams.  ::)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online Milly

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #147 on: May 23, 2019, 12:23:11 PM »
I've not heard the 'Holland' story but your version of it sounds very familiar to me. I often have the 'apocalypse' dreams where I'm running to catch a plane, forgot the tickets at home, managed to force the desk lady to accept me anyway only to realize that S has gone down the corridor and got on to a different plane. Maybe I was just dreaming about my normal LBS life.

Treasur, I had no previous life experiences that came near to this either. Hadn't even heard of people living stuff like me, although now I know there's lots of us. The loss of parents, even children as horrific as that must be, is out of our control and we did not cause it. Everyone is sympathetic and understanding. This MLC stuff is too cruel. Leaves us wondering wtf. It's un-understandable yet we have to accept it. I can't come up with any comparison.

We can wonder if it's easier/harder to have a clinger or vanisher, to have kids or not, to still have family around us, to live in a foreign land or our home town, but it's just crap no matter how you put it. It's awful. The only choice all of us have is to put one foot in front of the other and get on with it. Thankfully we all found this forum and can let it out to people who get it. I think I would have gone mad without HS and people like you.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D24, D21, S14
OW Physical Affair. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 50 last year.

Offline Rising Phoenix

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #148 on: May 23, 2019, 12:38:13 PM »
Everything milly said xx
Me 51
H52
Married still, 22yrs
Together 30yrs
BD 20/10/2014
Left first 12/12/2014
10 come backs and leaves again for same ow
Last left 7.03.17.
Ow 16 yrs younger, no children never been married. co worker. EA turned to PA and lives with ow
Divorce bomb drop by him 31/8/17 by solicitor letter after being caught by ow at lunch with me 3 wk earlier. Not yet finalised.
Crazy divorce started by him.
Clinging boomerang for 3 yrs now Vanisher but  twice a yr pops his head up. ow has balls in a vice!

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #149 on: May 23, 2019, 12:55:07 PM »
No previous experience for me either. Except I did see Under the Tuscan Sun before my own BD. And I wanted to throat punch the H in that story. I remember thinking, "What a stupid a$$ he is, and she is so much better off!!"   Need to get back to that mentality I suppose. Well, a trip to Tuscany it is then. ;)
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Anjae

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #150 on: May 23, 2019, 01:49:21 PM »
I think the Holland story works...but only if you get off the plane to find Holland has been invaded by zombies, you have no money, don't speak Dutch....and are trying to figure out how to get to Belgium which you've heard is nicer  :)

More like it.

Another with no previous experience.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online TreasurTopic starter

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Re: Hunting Normal Service
« Reply #151 on: May 23, 2019, 11:10:50 PM »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD)
No kids.
BD Oct 15. OW since Apr 16?
H filed Jan 17. Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.

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