Author Topic: My Story My Moving On Story pt. 3 - Under Your Scars  (Read 979 times)

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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My Story My Moving On Story pt. 3 - Under Your Scars
« on: May 17, 2019, 10:19:05 AM »
Thank you to everyone who posted on the last thread and I appreciate you all regardless of whether we agree.  I titled this thread after the song that gf says reminds her of us and I think it's so fitting as we are both scarred but healing.  I have seen a tremendous amount of progress from her and I think her history as a female LBS helps her to understand and accept me better.  Of course we both have triggers, and will be talking about how we both put too much emphasis on Facebook this weekend, but in the overall she is my friend and I trust her in ways that I trust very few people in my life.  She has her faults just like I do and it's unfair of me to expect her to work to overcome them if I'm not working on overcoming my own.  This new phase in our relationship will be about growth and adaptation as we are moving toward our first joint family vacation and I will finally be meeting her FOO next weekend at her son's graduation.  We are also approaching our 1-year anniversary which is a huge milestone for me since it's the first relationship I've been in since XW.

And Lawprofessor was correct as always in that gf had resolved to remain single and independent until we hung out a couple times and decided to give it a go, and even then she was very skittish and second-guessing herself until we took a few week break and got back together.  She said it was that time that gave her the chance to make the decision to give relationships one more shot before becoming a spinster like her older sister.  She's been very clear that she's glad she did take that chance now, and so am I.  Growth and learning......

And may I suggest a new prefix rather than My Story for those of us who are not standing?

Peace to you all.

Previous thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10682.0
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 10:57:51 PM by Silver »
One day at a time.

Thundarr

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: My Moving On Story pt. 3 - Under Your Scars
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2019, 02:49:31 PM »
Hello,

I took the whole last post from LP and put it here for you since many people don't visit locked threads and the post gets buried.

Quote
Hi Thundarr et all,

Dating after divorce much less a MLC divorce is a huge learning experience and often a challenging adventure.  Years ago I suggest we have a thread on dating to share ideas, experiences, pitfalls, solutions, helpful tricks to avoid or climb out of potholes, fears and the like.  But the idea was shot down.

I think that could be a great idea if done with taste. I don't want it to become a narrative of one's exploits, but rather a mature discussion especially in regards to safety.

For many of us dating becomes a reality.  For some sooner than others.  For most of us its been a long time since we were "in the market" as it were.  For more than a few dating kicks up the dust of ghosts of the past, secret fears, private fears, questions of desirability, self esteem issues, and the simple questions of things like the weirdness of kissing a new person.  Geez I remember just the thought of kissing much less having more intimate relations with a new man was scary.And having children introduced and reception of the new person by other family members and friends.   And that's not mentioning the big pink elephant in the room of trust issues and triggers of the past.

Thundarr, what you are going through is normal for the most part and relative to your personality and style.

That's another point.  LBS's come in shades of high energy and Wallowers for lack of a better set of descriptive terms.  (And everything in between.). Then there is the difference between male LBS's and female LBS's.  For example, it seems male LBS's once they stop standing are more likely to look for and enter into a new relationship whereas female LBS's take longer and express a certain degree of being comfortable with not being in a relationship.Great point and research shows that divorced men do start dating and entering into a new relationships faster than divorced women  Now of course these are generalizations based on simple observation here without having tabulated any statistics or such and of course there are exceptions and outliers.

Thundarr, I'm a person who believes humans repeat patterns until they choose to learn from the past and choose to adjust what they control which includes their choices and behaviors and reactions if they want a different outcome than was achieved in the past. Fantastic point, this is why detaching and responding differently to your MLCer is a must. Otherwise, from their perspective you've not changed and the situation is the same, so will the pain and emptiness that they are desperately trying to escape

Life doesn't have to be a never ending loop of triggers and pain from the MLC experience.  If one doesn't want to repeat history the onus is on us to change behavior.Big pickup for me in counseling. The only person you can control is yourself. No one can help you if you don't make the commitment to change.    The MLC experience can also be a time of great growth and possibility if one chooses to embrace that.

Where is your focus?
What are you using to define yourself?  You say your nerdy.  So is Bill Gates and millions of other men yet you also have a great sense of humor, are intelligent to be sure,  hardworking, caring, and loyal.  Those qualities are very sought after by women.  And nerdy is cool and interesting when combined with self confidence.  Self esteem my friend.

In the dating phase we learn what we want and what we will accept from others.  But what we want is no less than what we have to be willing to give to another.

Lp

Thanks for a great post and many nuggets of wisdom.

Ready
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline xyzcf

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Re: My Moving On Story pt. 3 - Under Your Scars
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2019, 05:28:10 PM »
I disagree.


Quote
Dating after divorce much less a MLC divorce is a huge learning experience and often a challenging adventure.  Years ago I suggest we have a thread on dating to share ideas, experiences, pitfalls, solutions, helpful tricks to avoid or climb out of potholes, fears and the like.  But the idea was shot down.

I think that could be a great idea if done with taste. I don't want it to become a narrative of one's exploits, but rather a mature discussion especially in regards to safety.

Heros Spouse is specifically for people who are dealing with a MLC. The focus is on the LBSer not your post divorce dating or sexual conquests.

Once someone is dating, I do not feel that this is the best place for them to document their lives nor for others to give advice. There are plenty of other places where you could chat with others who have entered into the dating pool.

Stating that you have stopped standing or are dating is realistic...going into the amount of detail some people seem to feel necessary tp share is not.

Example: Thundaar stated on his last post that he is having the best sexual life in 47 years....people who have to share how great their sex life is, is in my opinion not really having such an amazing sexual life. Some things need to remain private.

This is NOT the place.

This has also been discussed before and as LP stated it was agreed that it was not appropriate for HS. Bringing this up once again will incite people and cause more anger to be thrown at one another..it just isn't necessary.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 05:31:15 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline lawprofessor

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Re: My Moving On Story pt. 3 - Under Your Scars
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2019, 06:35:42 PM »
Good evening, XYZCF and any others reading along,

I would have to say XYZCF raises some valid concerns.  I personally have no interest in reading a recounting of the details of anyone's sex life.  However, that wouldn't be my focus or interest and I'd hope not that of others.  Although the concern is valid because human nature being what it is, some do take topics to unintended conclusions and there is a history of that happening here.

For me, dating was part and parcel of the fallout from my ex-husband's MLC.  Many parts of dating specifically were problematic because my Ex had a MLC and the debris from that impacted my social life, my perception of my self worth, and my thoughts as to what I wanted/hoped for in a relationship.  Dealing with this became part of my healing. 

The topic arose from conversations with several people who made the decision not to stand and were struggling with defining what that meant.  It included both male and female LBS's. 

One of the exercises we did was to try to list things we hoped to find in a new partner and the examine the reasons these qualities were important to us.  The ladies were much better at listing specific qualities than the men were by the way.

One of the ladies began a list:

Educated man
Interest in A B and C
Etc (about 6 points)

She was certain the list was all that was necessary after all she didn't think of herself as fussy or high maintenance or hard to please.

Well, the universe being a bit mischievous put a man in her path that fit those qualities. 

However....he had a problem she never considered.  He lacked skill in personal hygiene.

Who would have thought that was something to consider at the 45 plus age range? 

We all had quite a good laugh.

Over time we noted our lists evolved and changed for both the men and women.

Now the point of the exercise was two-fold.  One part highlighted the axiom of broken attracts broken and as healing occurred and time passed our definitions of a healthy relationship and what it takes to have a healthy relationship changed. 

Another part highlighted the need to be able to articulate what we wanted as separate mature individuals, but our own identity.  Not someone's wife. But how to have our own identity and not be defined or subsumed by another's even if the person was to be a significant other, even if one fell into a state of something akin to limmerance.

I don't recall RCR ever weighing in on the idea but I could have missed it.  I do recall a few such as you XYZCF who were against the idea for the reasons you articulated above.  However, I fail to see how the topic could cause anger and fighting although I suppose anything is possible. 

The sad fact is MLC impacts all areas of one's life and for a very long time.  It doesn't stop when someone stops standing.  Trauma echoes pop up when least expected even years later when we think we are done it can sneak up on us.  I think this is what Thundarr is struggling with at the moment in large part.  To begin another layer of healing is to first recognize the problem and then to recognize one is not alone in having the difficulty.  Isn't that what we found here after all?  A community.  Thundarr most assuredly is not the only one to have faced these issues and won't be the only one in the future who would appreciate feedback from people who have or are in the midst of those issues.  Where else to talk but here amongst those who understand the impact MLC has on all areas of one's life?  It's no wonder some feel as though their thoughts and experiences are not welcome after they stop standing.  But perhaps your thinking is correct.  I can always FB message Thundarr and discuss these things.  I simply prefer a wider variety of voices to add to the discussion as no one person has all the answers.

Lp
if people won’t listen to you, there’s no point in talking to people. If they won’t listen, you’re just banging your head against a wall.

Sadly Ive used up all the time I had allotted to spend banging my head on the wall

Offline xyzcf

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Re: My Moving On Story pt. 3 - Under Your Scars
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2019, 07:06:05 PM »
Quote
However, I fail to see how the topic could cause anger and fighting although I suppose anything is possible.


I think because it evokes very strong feelings on both sides.

I will be totally honest. In my life, everywhere I go, I encounter couples. Couples my age doing the things that I once thought I would be doing. I went to a Ladies' Night Out golf evening last night and played with two lovely ladies. The whole evening's conversation concerned their upcoming travel plans with their husbands to Europe. I used to have that life.

Other events I attend have people asking me why I won't date, telling me that I am too young to "waste" my life.

I joined "meetup" which specifically states that it is a non dating site and have received personal emails from men saying things like "you have such a cute smile, I would love to meet you for coffee or dinner sometime".

In my experience, the world is a whole lot more accepting of finding a new partner than it is of standing.

When I read some of the comments made on HS from people who are in new relationships, I often read "I am much happier in this relationship than I ever was with my spouse" ...as though they actually prefer that their marriage ended. Life is soo much better now as Thundaar expressed when sharing his sex life here.

I do not think that a forum can be all things to all people. I would like to have a "safe" place where I don't have to read about how wonderful your new girlfriend/boyfriend or spouse is and all the great things you are doing. One place where I don't have to feel that pain of not being a couple.

Am I being unreasonable? Perhaps.  I appreciate that people have new relationships but prefer not to hear the details. OP is a very good example ...he continues to contribute how MLC has/is  affecting his life but doesn't fill us in on details of his new partner.

Your life now with a new partner is your journey....enjoy him or her but sharing the pros and cons of your partner and asking for advice doesn't fit the reason for HS...it just doesn't.

I guess I still think back to when I first found this site in 2010 and this statement still remains on the home page:

The Hero's Spouse

Dealing with Your Spouse's Midlife Crisis and Infidelity When You Don't Want A Divorce


Of course I don't have to read these threads do I? And I do avoid some for this reason...but..my own personal opinion is that it is hard enough to cope with the many issues relating to MLC and there isn't a reason to add how to date into the mix.

Reading about people's new relationships might also cause someone who would like to stand for their marriage to feel pressure to let go and slip into something new.

Sorry, these are my truths and have been for a very long time as those who know me will not be at all surprised why this is not a topic that I feel we need to include here.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 07:08:55 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline lawprofessor

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Re: My Moving On Story pt. 3 - Under Your Scars
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2019, 08:12:34 PM »
That's an excellent point you raise, concerning the view that the prevailing attitude seems to be that being in a relationship, some relationship, any relationship, somehow a necessary to having a fulfilling life. 

I wonder if both men and women are addressed with that pressure.  I had so many friends who wanted to fix me up with "a really great guy" and gave me the subtle and not so subtle at times message that being in a relationship was the necessary norm to having a societally acceptable life.  The pressure was surely there. 

"When I read some of the comments made on HS from people who are in new relationships, I often read "I am much happier in this relationship than I ever was with my spouse" ...as though they actually prefer that their marriage ended. Life is soo much better now as Thundaar expressed when sharing his sex life here."


Those comments have me scratching my head at times.  For myself, a new relationship does not compete with the love I had for my Ex so that one has to or would naturally be better than the other.  One does not negate the worth of the other so I have no need to compare.  For many here the MLCer is the person who they came of age with, who they had children and now perhaps grandchildren with.  That person should be treated with a degree of respect.  Comparison as you detailed is not respect.  It shows where one has work to do. 

I do think some here prefer that their marriage ended.  Perhaps they didn't have a good marriage to begin with.  Some are happy to have lived through the worst of the experience and find some peace. Others are happy almost manic in their new relationship because they thought they would never be happy again.  Others think some relationship is better than no relationship.  A few are in a new relationship as a SC**w you to their spouse or because their spouse is in a relationship so fair is fair, a competition. 

Others choose to look at their marriage ending with a degree of acceptance in that they see themselves making lemonade from lemons so to speak. 

Yet others have fallen in love all over again.  And I'm sure there are a dozen or more other reasons I haven't thought of yet. 

Some of those are healthier than other I'm sure. 

I am sorry you feel the pain of not being part of a couple.  And I'm sorry the ladies you golfed with didn't realize the impact or subtle message their conversation carried with you. 

I don't think you are being unreasonable.  Your feelings are valid and important just as are your opinions and those of others.  I don't often mention on public threads that I'm in a relationship either although it's no secret either. 

Yes, I admit to also avoiding some threads for similar reasons including the topic doesn't interest me or the views espoused are offensive to me.  It's a personal choice.  Yes, I too look back at the past here on HS with nostalgia and dislike some of the changes that have occurred.  It's one of the many reasons I no longer wanted to be a mentor/mod as I have some beliefs about MLC that are in opposition to prevailing tides her.  Yet I also remember that phrase you quoted being one of the reasons I refused to answer the questions I got about whether I was standing or not when I came here.  I wasn't standing in truth.  But I feared I wouldn't be welcome or befriended if I was frank about that because of that phrase.  Some of the posters spent a great deal of time and effort telling me why id be crazy to stand for my Ex and I was too afraid to say I wasn't in the beginning. 

I don't honestly know if a discussion as we've detailed would encourage someone standing to give up.  I tend to think if that were true the person would give up because she doesn't have the foundation or strength to stand long term, being that easily swayed.  As you're well aware standing requires great strength and the ability to not be swayed by prevailing attitudes as well as often an additional foundation such as religious reasons that reinforce the decision to stand.  I'm not certain simple discussion would destroy those.  For me, no.  For others, I don't know.

However, I have no plans to start any sort of thread much less one that would require my presence here on any sort of a regular basis.  And thank you for the intelligent and informative discussion.  It's nice to be able to have a discussion with someone without it degenerating into open warfare. 

Lp

if people won’t listen to you, there’s no point in talking to people. If they won’t listen, you’re just banging your head against a wall.

Sadly Ive used up all the time I had allotted to spend banging my head on the wall

Offline xyzcf

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Re: My Moving On Story pt. 3 - Under Your Scars
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2019, 09:21:57 PM »
 
Quote
It's nice to be able to have a discussion with someone without it degenerating into open warfare. 

Yes it is.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline ThundarrTopic starter

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Re: My Moving On Story pt. 3 - Under Your Scars
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2019, 11:49:20 AM »
Thank you LP and X for an excellent discussion.  Part of my growth over the last two years has been my embracing of the concepts of DBT, paramount of which is the belief that two people can have completely different views on a topic with neither being necessarily wrong...or right.  There are no absolute truths.

RCR has directly informed me that all are welcome here and that the commonality of having survived a spouse’s MLC one way or another is what binds is together.  That said, we all make the choice to read or not to read any of the threads.  I purposefully avoid the newbie threads because I don’t want to be reminded of what the early days were like as they were a time of such immense pain.

My hope and intent in continuing my story is to not only gain wisdom and insight but to hopefully provide support and fellowship to others who are navigating the dating waters in a world much different than that of our teen years.
One day at a time.

Thundarr

Offline xyzcf

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Re: My Moving On Story pt. 3 - Under Your Scars
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2019, 12:30:54 PM »
There is a difference between being welcomed on HS and using HS to discuss dating and relationship issues once a LBSer has entered into that world.

The code of conduct states:

Quote
Stay on Topic: MLC and Infidelity in a Marital Style Relationship
Story threads are for recording your journey with an MLC spouse—during MLC and after, during divorce and after, through personal recovery rebuilding your life--whether a new life without your MLCer or your new life reconciling your marriage. The Hero’s Spouse is not a dating site or a place for recording your sexual conquests. Please keep your story clean and on topic.

I have not seen anywhere where using HS to ask advice about whether or not this person is right for you and discussing intimate details of the relationship..yes, your life post MLC is a reason for posting but what I read on your thread is basically the detail by detail issues that you are having with your girlfriend.

It is NOT appropriate in my opinion.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline OffRoad

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Re: My Moving On Story pt. 3 - Under Your Scars
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2019, 12:39:26 PM »
But I have to ask.
  The Hero's Spouse

Dealing with Your Spouse's Midlife Crisis and Infidelity When You Don't Want A Divorce 
or didn't want one.

That doesn't only mean for people who still "stand" or even ever stood in my mind. It's dealing with it however you can. Am I wrong?

I was a "stand until" person. No OW (Still isn't as far as I know), monstering at the beginning, I believe to make me leave, and nothing done that if I met him on the street in the future and he was no longer this bizarre teenage version of himself, I wouldn't be able to speak with. I'm good with my life now on my own (since kids are also elsewhere), but I still need information sometimes. For instance, it might be Thundarr's over thinky nature that makes one day with gf fabulous and the next he worries because of a disagreement. It's good for me to read his thoughts and opinions, not just for my benefit(because I'm not a person who calls into question every disagreement, and maybe I might like to rethink that ) but for the benefit of my mlc friend who swings back and forth wildly (not just a little). This shows me that my friend is still way out there, it's not even like an LBS who is just being cautious. I can also do without reference to sex, btw. That's between the parties involved and none of my concern. If the relationship is satisfactory, that part should be at the same level, or to me red flag.

In my case no infidelity. But he is definitely a Midlife Crisis case (even the kids see it). I still think this was the best place for me. I still find some people intelligent and articulate and interesting. I sometimes go weeks without checking in now, but if I can give someone else some solace or help, I'd like to pass it on. I believe Thundarr is attempting to do the same.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

 

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