Author Topic: My Story New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?  (Read 2507 times)

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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My Story New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« on: May 23, 2019, 11:44:52 AM »
Hi all,

so here's my situation in nutshell:

Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 20,5 Years
Me: 43
W: 41 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 22.02.2019
4 girls (19,17,14,12 years) and 1 boy (5 years)
Own home, mortgage remaining for another 5 years (so lots at stake)
Life's been hard for us in recent decade (one crisis after another in family),  and for the past 2 years she's been forced to grow out from the "stay at home" mom role.


So about three months back she dropped the bomb by saying she no longer loves me, has not felt anything as such for 2-3 years and love started to wane on birth of your youngest.  This came out of nowhere for me, and I collapsed pretty badly, spent about week in depressed darkness/anxiety.  After that I desperately tried to improve and spent weeks trying to show how much I loved in various ways. Bad move (I get it now, it just created more anxiety on her). 

More bad news to come.  In April she moved to separate bedroom after saying she no longer even cannot touch  me nor sleep in same bed/room without feeling uncomfortable - and not so many months back we still had regular and very good sex life.  No touch, no sex, just somewhat silent treatment ever since.   Needless to say I crashed and burned, and eventually started therapy because of anxiety this kind of physical/emotional blocking and total fall of trust created on me.   

We started marriage counseling somewhat immediately in March, but it's been of no help as she's not really talking or showing any effort. I've done just about all things possible to fix the issues on my part - read and applied Gottman on my own, read and applied EFT on my own etc.  Even my shrink says I've done huge amount of education and changes in such short period to improve relationship and my relationship skills/communication. And I feel I have grown and become better man/husband in these months...  But zero effect on her, zero attempt on her part, which has made me to come to conclusion that the true problem /solution is not me anymore, but something inside her.

She's not even telling me what specifically is wrong. I have managed to pull out various bits and pieces out, and there seems to be massive resentment from misc events from the past 15 years - she remembers just about everything said and done over the years, whereas I recall about 3 weeks back fully and then glimpses of good times/events. All I get from her "you are now paying the price of all your past actions"--.  For me our marriage was like 90% happy, for her the number is somewhere around 60% (she says).  Not sure why, but she has been keeping and hiding all her bad emotions allowing resentment to pile up until now.  But right now she's definitely behaving like scorned woman / hell hath no fury (even physically aggressive). As if she has never forgiven anything, and is definitely not about any time soon.

Last week I finally "forced" her to private psychotherapist to talk, she spent two hours there, and the therapist had recommended a divorce or very long (years) break as possible solutions. That's all she told me.  She suggested a solution where we put the relationship talks totally on hold and focus on raising the family together for now.  Needless to say I chose the latter - we are living under same house, but everything is about keeping family things up and running. 

She's saying all the venues are still possible (possibly true), but she's not showing anything to support it. And for reason or another I have a gut feeling she's still lying/hiding on something...

 The reason I think she's having MLC is that she's having a kind of affair. With 20+ woman.  She calls it like sister/soulmate love, but it's clearly something more. Her face just lightens up when she talks of her, and she desires her company even more than the company of her own family/kids.  It's not physical (sexually) AFAIK, but some sort of mental affair. She even asked me if it was ok to tell her how much she loves her (just imagine how alien that moment felt for me)...  My wife who used to listen Mozart or Beethoven and read books now spends her nights (and days) listening and watching Billie Eilish and other teen culture, chatting and gaming with her.  As if she went back to being teen.

Needless to say I've done just about all the "do not's" in these three months, and my past is far from perfect (like any person I have hurt my partner from time to time,  but I have also apologized on them whenever I have understood the hurt, and especially now I have apologized just about everything, including my existence).  But I'm finally starting to learn that logic has got very little to do in situation like this  (thanks to all the great articles/guides)... I get that this can swing either way, but I've pretty much lost my hope, faith and love in failure after another in these moths. But as I have sworn the oath of "till death due us apart" on my head  (but she says she hasn't),  I'll choose to become a stander for at least few years. Empathy, forgiveness and love (whatever is left) are what I can provide to her.  Let time heal if it can, and if not then I can say I've done my best. 
 
Does this sound like MLC to you? Or could it be just massive dosage of resentment?  Opinions are more than welcome as even my shrink cannot say heads or tales on her mixed behavior.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 11:46:26 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Father5

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2019, 12:58:55 PM »
This does sound like MLC to me.

   Stay strong a moderator will be along shortly with more instruction for you 
Together 12 yrs Married 5
5 kids 3- Step (21) (20) (18) Two together ( 8 ) (9)
BD1 March 2018 - I wish I could give you more of what you need
BD2 Aug 2018 - I want a divorce sent by text ILWYBNILWY

O/M Discovered Nov-18

Offline in it

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2019, 01:03:55 PM »
Hi Alvin,

Sorry you are here. Sounds like a lot of built up resentment..probably not much time for herself with 5 kids plus whatever else she is doing.
Did you say she lashed out physically at you?

Old Pilot will be along soon.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2019, 01:10:08 PM »
Sorry you're here Alvin. But I'm glad you found us. OP will be along shortly with a welcome letter. I know it's hard to think straight in your current situation, but try to absorb as much of it as you can.

Post as often as you want. This is the perfect place to journal, vent, or rant. We've been there. Ask questions.

Whether it's MLC or something else, the advice is the same:
* Take care of yourself and your kids.
* Be healthy
* Protect yourself financially. Teenagers (MLCers) are terrible with money.

Treat yourself like you would a buddy who just shared the same story with you.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out June 2019.

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10871.0

Offline OldPilot

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 01:16:48 PM »
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

RCR has asked everyone to keep to one thread until  that thread is 150 posts

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

Offline megogirl

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2019, 03:40:21 PM »
It surely sounds like MLC, but here's confirmation:

If her eyes appear to be black, resembling two holes in her face.

It was, and is, a truly frightening sight. 

So sorry that you're here.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 03:42:29 PM by megogirl »

Offline Not Your Monkey

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2019, 06:01:25 PM »
 8)   :o  ::)
Beware fellow LBSes serving Kool-Aid. You will attract many who will tell you what you want to hear, but it may be very very far from the truth.

Offline akjomsviking

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2019, 06:28:49 PM »
The reason I think she's having MLC is that she's having a kind of affair. With 20+ woman.  She calls it like sister/soulmate love, but it's clearly something more. Her face just lightens up when she talks of her, and she desires her company even more than the company of her own family/kids.  It's not physical (sexually) AFAIK, but some sort of mental affair. She even asked me if it was ok to tell her how much she loves her (just imagine how alien that moment felt for me)...  My wife who used to listen Mozart or Beethoven and read books now spends her nights (and days) listening and watching Billie Eilish and other teen culture, chatting and gaming with her.  As if she went back to being teen.

That sounds very much like my own MLC'er.  At the time I was VERY private about it and didn't talk to anyone other than a couple of family members, but now that some years have passed I tell people that it was like living with a teenager.  My wife *had been* a woman pursuing her Master's, responsible, sober, boring even.  Then in what felt like days (really it was a couple of years) she regressed to the point that she was sullen, wouldn't look me in the eye, answered every question with "I don't know", was hanging out with people 20 years younger, using cringy phrases like "Age is just a number."  She would leave for days at a time, then return and act offended if I asked her where she'd been.  She would drop hints about not wanting to raise our kids or about how "They really need a dad more than a mom anyways."

Obviously everyone's different and none of our stories are exactly the same but if you hang around these forums long enough you'll see some eerie similarities.  Best of luck and keep your head up.  Remember: no matter what happens, you will come out the other side of this as a stronger and better man.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Online Shockandawe

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2019, 09:58:03 PM »
Hi Alvin

You’re in the best place for understanding the total mindfu**ery that’s going on in your life at the moment. So many stories, all different but all eerily similar. MLC is so shocking and devastating but as Old Pilot says you have been given a gift of time.

The Vets on here know their stuff and advice is always given which comes from people who know exactly what you are talking about and fully understand.

My h is in the throws of MLC and has become the opposite of the man I married. Like you I take my vows seriously and unlike people in real life who don’t get your stand we do.

Just wanted to say hi and let you know we get it.

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2019, 10:13:45 PM »

Did you say she lashed out physically at you?
 

Kind of (or yes, why bother denying - she did)... 

I was out an a walk, and when I came in, she was venting her frustration to our youngest. Shouting "it's way past your bedtime, no more toothbrushing to you young mister" who was crying somewhat wildly.  I stepped in and tried to calm the situation with my calmest voice saying "teeth are always brushed at night; let me take care of him".    The next thing I know she grabbed me from the chest/shirt and put on some kind of "crazy monkey" face (teeth pulled out, eyes exploding, silent scream etc) holding me.  I was so sure she would hit me, but she just kept me there for maybe 15 seconds, until I very calmly (surprising even myself) managed to say "please remove your hands off from me. Not in front of the kids. Never. Go out and take some time out, and think how to say sorry".

She then pulled out in anger and went for break, I managed to brush the teeth of youngest, and went putting him to bed. She then tried to come back into situation to put our youngest back to bed but I just told "not now. I'm finishing this now. You go and calm yourself".  She went away. 

After that I went to kitchen where she sat, and asked what was that and are you going to say you're sorry.  She just hissed "what if I don't? what are you going to do?"... To my surprise (thank god for reading all those relationship/selfhelp books I had read in past month), I just told her calmly that the "no-apology would not really hurt me anymore; only herself". Then I told her to take her head out of the b*tt, and look at what holding at all the resentment has turned her into, and work on it. 

Needless to say it became a very awkward and silent night, even more silent than usual.  Later that night (actually 4AM) before finally managing to fall asleep, I sent her whatsapp message stating that "no matter what happens, we'll have to be able to behave in respectful and civilized manner. Even in case of divorce, we would be seeing and talking each other a lot because of kids. Do you want to spend rest of your life hating me, or are we to build some kind of good communication. The choice is yours. With respect, your loving husband".

I get that she experiences that I stepped over her authority (by allowing our youngest to get tooth brushed even if he had been warned on several occasions). It is something which seems to be the common ground in all her resentment. 

As for me... I've already forgiven her. I see her not as "herself" anymore, but more of a victim of some bizarre psychological condition/behavior (the same way I was when actively pursuing her).
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Treasur

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2019, 10:20:38 PM »
Sorry you are here but glad you found us.
A few quick thoughts.

Whatever is going on, it is her crisis and neither love nor logic from you will reach her. So, by all means, make changes you want and need to make for yourself but please release yourself from trying to guess or respond to her ridiculous criticisms. It isn't about you or your marriage...only the fact that 50% of your marriage has just gone MIA into a weird black pit.

Standing is fine, but try not to stand too close if that makes sense. Trying to mind read or watch or guess will drive you crazy. And you have enough to do right now to protect yourself, your kids and the normal grown up responsibilities of life. You did well to stay calm in this latest situation but you will find that words are wasted. Boundaries just like your first response are the key, so you did well. You cannot control her behaviour or how she feels about it but you can choose what you accept or don't.

As this unfolds, and her behaviour becomes more predictably unpredictable, only you will know what is sustainable and sane to live beside. That may mean making some tough choices that your heart does not want but your head knows are wise. And that's ok too.

You have five kids and it sounds as if finances might have been an issue or there have been other tough life events? Do whatever you can to lock down and protect your finances. MLC teenagers can spend money like water and they all lie. Get legal advice...you don't have to act on it and should not tell your wife but information is power.

How are your kids doing? And how are you doing physically and mentally? This crazy surreal stuff takes a toll and self-care is vital to survive it. Right now you are the only sane parent and only sane adult in your family system so you have to look after yourself.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2019, 11:51:16 PM »
It surely sounds like MLC, but here's confirmation:

If her eyes appear to be black, resembling two holes in her face.

It was, and is, a truly frightening sight. 

So sorry that you're here.

Not my W's eyes, not at least yet....   In first few weeks I thought I saw some love buried deep in her eyes.  Now they are just emotionally detached, at times I think I see some onus(responsibility etc) in addition of anger/frustration on bad moments. And I get it - resentment effectively kills/holds back any feelings of love.

She's like a closed box, one of those giant computers in old science fiction movies.  Stuff goes in, but nothing comes out ever until some far and distant day a paper with answer to life, death and everything comes out.  We've talked (or mostly I have talked, and she has shortly replied when asked) to some extend about her lack of communication and effort, and she says she cannot understand why am I taking the situation so hard. Everything is "as before" from the outer surface and daily life goes on.  My line of (logical/reason) thinking is that there are no issues that could not be worked out in marriage. Life and love are all about choices and will; jumping into pool no matter what to save family life - the sooner the better. That's what people with "sanity" would do in situation like this, and that's what I've done - gone to hell and back again and again to change and fix my issues (and will continue to do so). 

But her approach feels like pure mindf***ry. She's told me that because of kids and good times in the past she's giving me (this) second chance.  But at the same time she's actively blocking every attempt to include possibilities of reviving trust and love.  Yet she still says all the doors/options are possible some day...  This I interpret as need to get space and time, lots of it.   So like the basic advice here goes, I'll try to treat time as my friend/gift (which it is financially speaking), and work on my pile  (right now growing/learning patience and detachment are my biggest issues).   

« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 07:43:03 AM by Thunder »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Whyus

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2019, 12:12:08 AM »
I am sorry that you are here Alvin.
My XW also had/has a Little friend (26, XW is 45) who she hangs around with. I even asked her if she is having an affair with her before I found out about OM. Her TGF was her Alibi, her hideout (im just going to TGFs for a couple of hours). I now know where she sent those hours and who helped her cover her tracks.

Anyway, you Sound good considering. The acting "out of age" is totally script when in MLC.
Look after Nr1 now (thats you) and your Kids. They Need you more than ever now as this $h!te will most likely get a lot worse before it gets better (it may never get better unfortunately). Keep yourself occupied and your eyes off your W, she has checked out so look after yourself which you seem to be doing very well.

There is something about the 20 years of marrige, Kids in late Teens which some People cant cope with as it seems.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. W is actually getting People to accept/Tolerate them.
2 Sons - 19 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline Silver

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2019, 12:26:34 AM »

Needless to say I've done just about all the "do not's" in these three months, and my past is far from perfect (like any person I have hurt my partner from time to time,  but I have also apologized on them whenever I have understood the hurt, and especially now I have apologized just about everything, including my existence).  But I'm finally starting to learn that logic has got very little to do in situation like this  (thanks to all the great articles/guides)... I get that this can swing either way, but I've pretty much lost my hope, faith and love in failure after another in these moths. But as I have sworn the oath of "till death due us apart" on my head  (but she says she hasn't),  I'll choose to become a stander for at least few years. Empathy, forgiveness and love (whatever is left) are what I can provide to her.  Let time heal if it can, and if not then I can say I've done my best. 
 
Does this sound like MLC to you? Or could it be just massive dosage of resentment?  Opinions are more than welcome as even my shrink cannot say heads or tales on her mixed behavior.

Hey Alvin,

No one can say for sure I am afraid but it sure sounds like MLC. Sorry you had to face that in your life buddy.

Like PJ said, your actions are same regardless what her crisis is all about. We all have done much do not's so don't blame yourself about it, it's only human.
You chose to be a stander which is very respectful decision. It's a long walk though. Empathy, forgiveness, love are good things to offer my friend in addition with time and space, in MLC that means she has to go trough the whole tunnel though which makes your boundaries for her 'space' important too, meaning don't let her to doormat you either.

Don't let her MLC define whole your life. Whatever happens it's your life after all and you have a responsibility for yourself and your kids to keep yourself living it the best you can REGARDLESS of her decisions and actions. That's why phrases you may already have heard like live as if she won't return and standing is not standing still, are so important and true.

Never give up hope, never, standing is not possible without it in my opinion. You will get over this in every case.


"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Offline Treasur

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2019, 12:37:11 AM »
Detachment helps a lot with the mindf**kery...just takes a bit of time and practice to get there but it is important to trust your own sense of normal vs not normal adult behaviour. And yup, this isn't it.

And hope? It can be hard to keep hope without being focused on an end result. And the problem is that you just don't know, so your hope goes up and down and that makes detachment harder sometimes bc you keep looking for evidence one way or the other. I found that either hoping for something different ( e.g. Me and the kids will be ok in the end whatever happens)  or turning hope into faith (e.g. I don't know what the outcome will be but I have faith that I will get through it and there will be better days again) was easier.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2019, 12:54:16 AM »
Whatever is going on, it is her crisis and neither love nor logic from you will reach her. So, by all means, make changes you want and need to make for yourself but please release yourself from trying to guess or respond to her ridiculous criticisms. It isn't about you or your marriage...only the fact that 50% of your marriage has just gone MIA into a weird black pit.

Standing is fine, but try not to stand too close if that makes sense. Trying to mind read or watch or guess will drive you crazy.

This I've learned and understood the hard way.  This is no longer about me, but her ... Or more likely three crisis (her, mine, and our marriages) in package of one. 

Letting go/detaching... Well, that's the hard part. My initial "mental breakup" was simply accepting (within the heart) the possibility of her leaving.   Another breakdown was truly  acknowledging/approving that this is really deep situation with no quick/easy recovery (if any)...  The next (and possibly the final/hardest) step will be  truly accepting there's nothing I can do to change or influence her, just letting life happen.  Until I get to that stage, I fear I'll not reach peace of mind and nothing gets the possibility of fixing...  But at least I know where I have been, where I am now, and where I should be.  That is way lot more knowledge than three months back.   

You have five kids and it sounds as if finances might have been an issue or there have been other tough life events?

Let's just say anything from money issues to health issues have been giving us hard time over the past decade. From one crisis to another we've been supporting others, now is our time. I recall thinking just before this hit the fan, that  finally we could enjoy some peaceful good times of us two.  Oh the irony of life..

Do whatever you can to lock down and protect your finances.
This is a work in progress. But legally it will be 50/50 split in case of worst, so not much I can do besides trying to increase common finances and stay legally married as long as possible (possibly the most concrete way to save funds/increase future wealth for both of us).

How are your kids doing? And how are you doing physically and mentally? This crazy surreal stuff takes a toll and self-care is vital to survive it. Right now you are the only sane parent and only sane adult in your family system so you have to look after yourself.

Well, the first thing (following the night she told), I did was tell the kids/family about the situation in words "stock markets of love have crashed, but we are trying to fix it..." (little did I know where things would be three months later).  It did bring up some tears, but no big reactions otherwise.  Likely I was calm enough when telling not to cause panic.

Also both of our families know about the BD but they don't know the true extend of the situation. For some reason she was unable to told her family on this at all, but it was my duty to break the news. AFAIK she's not spoken any further with her parents (or sisters) on this.  Only her new affection besides counselors knows on where things are with us... 

The kids... Well, they see their mother sleeping on separate room. And they surely feel the tension and lack of communication between us two... But that's about it. I am trying to organize regular family activities like dining together etc.  Maybe I am now putting too much of my energy to kids, but kids/family is now my number one priority.
 
As for my well-being...  I've totally fallen apart, and am now rebuilding myself anew...  I'm seeing a shrink in addition of marriage counselling.  And the physical side of me crashed too (chronic health issues which went from bad to worse, but thanks to meds are now under control)...  I've put my frustration/energy into hiking - could easily spend 1-3 hours a day in simply walking around the woods, roads and lakesides.  And I'm listening lots of music (for energy/happiness, not heartache songs anymore)...  As far as sleeping goes... lots of dreams every night, mixed amounts of sleep. I guess all those dreams are my tormented soul's way of processing lack of real communication and effort.

Her well-being too is mixed.. .She's taking naps on some days, for example yesterday she slept till midday while I took care of the kids and prepared food. And then she was up till 2AM playing games... I've understood her well-being is no longer a problem of mine, and I've reduced my looking after.  But I simply cannot let her crash totally as it would affect family life (she's had few depression periods during our marriage, so I know what it can be alike - this is not like that yet, but unless she gets rest, she will not make through). 

So it's complicated. Life is, when everything (kids, family, finances, living etc) are so interconnected.

 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 02:52:45 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2019, 01:03:46 AM »
Detachment helps a lot with the mindf**kery...just takes a bit of time and practice to get there but it is important to trust your own sense of normal vs not normal adult behaviour. And yup, this isn't it.

And hope? It can be hard to keep hope without being focused on an end result. And the problem is that you just don't know, so your hope goes up and down and that makes detachment harder sometimes bc you keep looking for evidence one way or the other. I found that either hoping for something different ( e.g. Me and the kids will be ok in the end whatever happens)  or turning hope into faith (e.g. I don't know what the outcome will be but I have faith that I will get through it and there will be better days again) was easier.

Thanks.  Will definitely give this advice a try as it feels solid/normal behavior I can understand.

Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline xyzcf

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2019, 06:10:50 AM »
Hello and welcome to Hero's Spouse. It is such a relief to have some place to be able to talk about this mess to others who totally get it. I was thinking the other day, that if my husband was the only "case" of such strange behavior, it would be harder for me (although it certainly is hard enough!) but when I read so many stories and nod my head as I am reading, it helps me to remember, there is something really wrong with him.

Quote
We started marriage counseling somewhat immediately in March, but it's been of no help as she's not really talking or showing any effort.

I have not read of one case on HS where marriage counseling has helped. It is as though they go to appease us but they will not participate. We were married 32 years and after the second session he announced that he was done with the therapy. I could continue if I wished but he was "out of there".


Quote
which has made me to come to conclusion that the true problem /solution is not me anymore, but something inside her.

This is the most important thing that you can do. This is her crisis, her journey. Something is broken inside of her, has been most of her life most likely. She would have had a crisis no matter who she had married. It is hard not to take it personally.

Quote
last week I finally "forced" her to private psychotherapist to talk, she spent two hours there, and the therapist had recommended a divorce or very long (years) break as possible solutions.

Lovely when a therapist recommends destroying a family! The marriage therapist told my husband when I was in the office that "it was time for him to get in touch with his bad side". I was devastated hearing that but in actual fact, future events showed that is what he would do....indicated by some of his replay activities.

Quote
As for me... I've already forgiven her. I see her not as "herself" anymore, but more of a victim of some bizarre psychological condition/behavior (the same way I was when actively pursuing her).

You have been able to see beyond the person and from your reading, you can see that this is not the woman you have loved for all these years. This will help you to detach and let her do what she must do in her crisis.

Quote
she says she cannot understand why am I taking the situation so hard. Everything is "as before" from the outer surface and daily life goes on.  My line of (logical/reason) thinking is that there are no issues that could not be worked out in marriage. Life and love are all about choices and will; jumping into pool no matter what to save family life - the sooner the better. That's what people with "sanity" would do in situation like this, and that's what I've done - gone to hell and back again and again to change and fix my issues (and will continue to do so). 

Yes, they don't seem to see that just walking away from all these years and their families is a problem. "Normal" people at least try to solve the issues and work hard to attempt to save something so precious. They just do not feel the need to.

Quote
The next (and possibly the final/hardest) step will be  truly accepting there's nothing I can do to change or influence her, just letting life happen.  Until I get to that stage, I fear I'll not reach peace of mind and nothing gets the possibility of fixing... 

It takes time and often even when we think that we "get it" certain events will trigger us once again.

The exercise and music are great tools to use to help you through this. Therapy also can be great if you have a therapist that understands what is happening.

I am a stander and have been for almost 10 years. It is very hard because the world doesn't support me, my family doesn't support me but I would not change my decision. Each person on HS will determine what is right for them and are supported which is what makes this site so very special.

Reading other's threads can be helpful in furthering our understanding of the pathology of MLC. You might like to read BBhelp's thread whose wife was in a crisis. he explains things very well. He can be followed at:

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8080.0
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8194.0
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9713.0
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10463.0
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2019, 07:15:53 AM »
This is the most important thing that you can do. This is her crisis, her journey. Something is broken inside of her, has been most of her life most likely. She would have had a crisis no matter who she had married. It is hard not to take it personally.

I've known she's been broken (weak ego, depression periods etc) most of her life. But I never in my wildest dreams imagined that it would try to "fix" like this. Right now she's bit like amazon warrior doing all kinds of stunts which are not her past self-like.  For example she's been against starting her own business/enterpreneurship for decades, and now she's going for it like driven (not much of a choice as jobs on her line are not easily available locally).

I just spoke on the phone with the oldest girl , and told some of the recent activity at home (me starting exercising, she thinking of starting a business of her own), and she was like what on earth is happening.  She  like all the kids know of the BD, but that's all I've told as our relationship is our worry (my wife was about to tell her more about month back when they had a girls night out, but my girl refused to listen unless we're about to drop nukes - smart move from her). 

Right now the best I can do is support her in her decisions if they make even one bit of (financial) sense. If it flies then we all benefit. If it crashes, then it hurts us all...  Boundaries, all about boundaries.


Yes, they don't seem to see that just walking away from all these years and their families is a problem. "Normal" people at least try to solve the issues and work hard to attempt to save something so precious. They just do not feel the need to.

I don't think she would ever walk out our kids (but I guess there are many horror stories here). Too much love on that part even in current state. 

Possibly right now there's some kind of balance of "fear".  In the beginning of crisis I told her she could have full custody in case of divorce as I knew she could not live without seeing them daily, and I thought I could make it. But as days have turned to weeks and weeks to months without progress of any kind, I've understood I could not make without the kids for longer periods neither.   So I've set out another boundary to her, and told that I'll never give up on the kids without a fight. So she knows that if divorce cometh, I'll go for equal 50/50 rights and nothing less.  It's not ideal for the kids, but it would be good for me  and good for her in worst scenario- another boundary set there. 


It takes time and often even when we think that we "get it" certain events will trigger us once again.

Yep... I just read on the "white bear" method of getting over rumination (that goes on like devil's drums on my head way too often)...  It actually helped to write down the details of worst case scenario, step by step on paper... So there's now a some kind of "roadmap" what might happen and how life would actually win (for me and kids) even if all goes the worst route. In the end it became nowhere as frightening as I would have thought, but it is definitely good feeding for building detachment. Not so afraid of as before...  Of course I'm trying very hard not to turn it into self-fulfilling prophecy.  Right now my plan is not to rock the boat (keeping status quo as long as possible) by giving space and distance, and working out self (which will benefit me regardless of the final result).

Thanks for the kind words to all. They mean a lot as these have been the hardest months of my life so far (and I'm in no illusion that this would be over quickly).
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 07:34:06 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline xyzcf

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2019, 07:29:00 AM »
One thing I had read in the many many books I read initially was that it might be better not to share all the details of what is happening with family/friends because if you do reconcile, it would be easier perhaps for the MLCer to be "accepted" back into the "pack".

Quote
I've told as our relationship is our worry

There is such a fine line. Sometimes our older kids "know" anyway but I personally did not share many things with our daughter (who was 25 then) because I did and still do want her to have a relationship with her dad. I "protected" him so that she wouldn't think worse of him then she already did.

Even though she asked me twice, I lied about his affair. I never felt right about that for it set up "family secrets" and that wasn't good either.

My daughter lives thousands of miles from me, and as the years past, there never seemed to be a "right" time to talk to her about this. He divorced me 9 years after BD and that gave me an opening to tell her the "truth". It relieved me of carrying that "secret" but I also wonder if I told her because I was so angry that after all these years, he would divorce me without ever mentioning that he was going to do so (he sent me an email to inform me)....my daughter and I have never talked about it since.

My therapist doesn't like the dynamics between my daughter and I for my daughter will not engage in any discussion really about all this. She has a relationship with her dad, and a separate one with me and she doesn't let either one of us know what those relationships are about.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Thunder

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2019, 08:09:37 AM »
Hi Alvin,

Sorry you find yourself in this mess.  It's very hard on everyone.

Please just know, this crisis of hers has nothing to do with you or your marriage no matter what she tells you.
They just need an excuse for what they are doing so somehow it has to be your fault.  It can't be them destroying the family.  That would make them the bad guy.
Some of the reasons they come up with are down right ridiculous.

I would suggest two things.  Stop having relationship talks with her, they will never end well.  If she starts in just tell her..."I'm sorry you feel that way" and walk away.  Don't let her bait you into an argument, that's what they want.

Be light and friendly when you are around her to keep the calm for the kids.

If she does end up wanting a divorce, let her know you don't agree but you will not stand in her way.  Then do nothing to help her.  Nothing! Let it be her divorce.
Also if she wants out, if it gets to that point, let her know you are not moving out of the house if she wants out then she will need to leave.  You are staying with your kids.

I hope it never gets to this point.  Just take good care of yourself and be there for your kids, they need one sane parent.

"Family" outtings?  I'm not sure that is a good idea, unless she initiates it.  Sometimes they look at that as manipulation.  However you can always make plans for you and the kids.

Hang in there, Alvin.  None of this is easy.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline gman242

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2019, 11:43:10 AM »

Needless to say it became a very awkward and silent night, even more silent than usual.  Later that night (actually 4AM) before finally managing to fall asleep, I sent her whatsapp message stating that "no matter what happens, we'll have to be able to behave in respectful and civilized manner. Even in case of divorce, we would be seeing and talking each other a lot because of kids. Do you want to spend rest of your life hating me, or are we to build some kind of good communication. The choice is yours. With respect, your loving husband".

I'm just jumping in here.. welcome to the board ..!

Right after my wife moved out, I said the same thing more or less. She went with me to see our son off to boyscout camp for the weekend and she was acting more like my son.. angry, disinterested, on her phone. She threw a fit about coming and I even if we're going to be divorced, we need to act like adults.

It's a bizarre feeling, having to act like a parent to your wife. Especially when someone like mine was a fantastic mother, previously. If anything,  it just goes to show we've all be through the same stuff.

It's normal for our spouses to regress and she may have just found someone that is willing to indulge them in their regression. But be prepared for something physical to happen, if it hasn't already and for every one thing you do hear about, just assume there's at least 10 you don't know about.

I'm not trying to scare you, just prepare you for the grim reality of this sad business. Just protect you and your kids and hang in there, we're here if you need us!

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2019, 12:04:17 AM »
I would suggest two things.  Stop having relationship talks with her, they will never end well.  If she starts in just tell her..."I'm sorry you feel that way" and walk away.  Don't let her bait you into an argument, that's what they want.

Thanks.   That is what I'll try to commit myself... It's just so damn difficult to keep ones mouth shut, when you have shared all joys and sorrows for two decades, and are of talkative kind.  But I have seen and witnessed enough damage already with my desire to communicate. Oh how I wish and desire the strength to keep my mouth shut.   

Yesterday I had a weak moment (hopefully my last) and I looked into her eyes for awhile, and could not help dropping tears. She then asked why I cried, and I told her because "I am sorry you no longer feel love for me... I wish I would love you no more as it would make everyone's life easier. But I can't help, I still love you...".  She then replied 'why should you stop loving, nothing's changed with our daily lives'... As if she does not see the situation. I feel so stupid for allowing myself to fall for emotions/mindf***ry.   

I've been thinking over some of the things she's plumbed out over these months, especially that according to her about 10 years back something changed within me (that is the time I got chronically ill and was in really bad shape). According to her I had became withdrawn and self-centered for many (5-6) years... Could it be possible that I've gone through my MLC in my early 30s, and she was the stander first? Or was it just some psychological reaction to understanding that "life as I knew" was over?  Either way, those years have left a lot of resentment within her (but I've also been given examples of "crimes" that go way further into our relationship history)..  I really hate that her memory is so exceptional and she can remember just about anything ever; for me there is zero recollection except for the selected happy moments from the past and then only "short term" (1-12 months) in more detail....  Be it MLC or not, long term marriages cannot survive without forgiveness and sticking with present (and future) and not the past.  That is what I consider normal...  But part of me now feels even more "obliged" to stand especially if I've gone through MLC back then and she's stood by my side.

On the positive side, the "white bears" scripting practice helped me to sleep better.   For the first time in god knows how many weeks/months I was not having dream talks with her, but saw some kind "murder mystery" dream (in which she was involved).    But still, it was/is very painful to wake up and realize you are in your marital bed alone.  She even no longer calls it "our bed", just "your bed".

Anyway, she's today out with her girlfriends (going to zoo and picnic).  I'll get a day with the kids/family.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 12:08:37 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Thunder

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2019, 05:44:14 AM »
Alvin,

Don't beat yourself up for showing emotion or trying to figure out what caused all this to happen.  We've all done the same thing.  We must have done something to cause them to fall out of love with us.

Trouble is, even though none of us was perfect, you did nothing to cause this.  It would have happened if you had been a perfect husband.
Because it has nothing to do with you.  She would have gone is crisis no matter who she married.
It's something within her.

It takes a long time for this to sink in...and it takes a long time to detach from them, but you can't fix her or change her, so detaching with love is the best thing to do.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2019, 07:32:46 AM »
Hello,

Quote
She would have gone is crisis no matter who she married.
It's something within her.

This is where Thunder and I totally agree. Hearts Blessing wrote years ago that the issues are from adolescent or early adulthood and were repressed. They have remained buried for years and years. Then something in the later adult brings these issues back to the surface and combined with the new issues creates the crisis that they can't handle.

The point is, it was going to happen at some point.

Now the only thing you can do is let her go and focus on you. Take this time to do your own mirror work and pick up a hobby or activity that you enjoy. This crisis takes time, but it is on her schedule and her ability to work through her issues on her own.

I can't make any promises, but if you work on becoming whole again and just live for you and your kids, you will come out as a better man.

Enjoy your time with the children!

Fist bump,

Ready
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2019, 08:03:56 AM »
Oh, I'm no longer trying to figure out what caused all this to happen. I acknowledge (and even accept) whatever is going is strictly within her and happens on her timeline, past cannot be changed etc. truths.   

But  I do feel that in order for myself to move on, I need to reach some kind of "self forgiveness". I'm sure most here have taken a deep look of their relationships at this (early) stage, and noticed you were not as perfect as you thought. And though any of wrongs might not have contributed to MLC, they do require some kind of "balancing"  - call it act of Karma or whatever - in order to feel comfortable on your skin.   In normal world this would eventually come through forgiveness process and new future "trust building" actions (which I basically tried by reading and implementing Gottman, EFT etc within first months). But I fear that in current situation it may be a long await, possibly never, to receive forgiveness through that route.

I may have changed the "bad parts" within me, but I still need to reason myself why they ended up within me first place.    Even if it means discovering and accepting that "life happened", I'll  have to do some soul searching.

PS. Added afterwards... Just went for quick hike on the woods. The power of nature is amazing, as when breathing fresh air and marvelling the grandeur of it all, I realized that the same "forgiveness process" that I use for others can work for oneself.  So maybe this "mantra" will be useful to somebody else someday:

I forgive myself for being ignorant and hurting her by not understanding. Ignorance can be only fixed with education I did not have back then.
I forgive myself for behaving and talking too straight. It was a learned model from my childhood and I have now broken the cycle.
I forgive myself for taking her granted. It was just ignorant and selfish behavior on my part, but I just did not understand.
I forgive myself for being human. We all make mistakes. We all learn from mistakes.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 09:14:12 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline in it

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2019, 11:23:11 AM »
Yes that's where it starts forgiving yourself first. :)

I had a lot I had to forgive myself for.

Staying with the ex and not being treated better was just one of them, I should have left him years ago.
But silly me I kept focusing on what good there was until the bad could no longer be ignored, made excuses for, or rationalized.

No ones perfect, nor should they try to be. Making mistakes is part of being human.
And I just don't make the same mistake once, I do it 5 or 6 times just to make sure before I realize I'm an idiot. ;D

Caused myself a whole lot of damage. Much more than if I had just kept going 9 years ago (after the divorce) and not looked back. My life and/or that old one was way out of balance.

All I can tell anyone in these newer situations is put your heart away, and use your head. Sometimes easier said than done.
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

Offline megogirl

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2019, 03:45:30 PM »
And I just don't make the same mistake once, I do it 5 or 6 times just to make sure before I realize I'm an idiot.

This is comedy gold -- thank you :)

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2019, 01:15:25 AM »
Just to vent out life/feelings a bit....

I went for morning walk, when angry pheasant started following and chasing me somewhat viciously.  I got bit scared of the situation as it just went more and more agressive, and I (semi-automatically) wanted to run home and seek "comfort" (or something) from her.   But when I was rushing back home through woods, I realized what I was about to do, and then refused myself.  She c/would not provide the comfort I was looking as she feels loves me not. And then I hugged myself, cried alone in the woods, blaming her, blaming the universe on all this happening...   Until I realized it was all within me. I got scared. I wanted comfort/protection from her. I disallowed it from myself (as she likely would have put up some kind of akward hug for me despite the current situation). And it was I who put blame for her and universe.  And I finally figured out that it was all within my head: I did all those things; I created all the drama within without her participation, and if I had not rewinded and slowed the situation, I would have remained stuck in "she did it" victim mentality ... It was very humbling, shameful, but also empowering moment (for self-healing/development/detachment).

She's just so empty/exhausted... She even admitted it at councelling: I exhaust her completely. She said she has zero energy to talk or do anything related to us or the relationship, and any attempt to do so will push her even further away. Life and family she can manage, maybe even better without me being around... I've pushed myself further and further away from her to give the space/distance she very clearly needs. 

There is so much self-hate within her that it scares me a bit.  She's had two eruptions and one tantrum within these two past weeks: and most of it has been "self-hate". How she messed up life and things, how unworthy she feels, how she does not know of anything, how ugly she looks, how tired and failed she feels for not being able to process these things faster.  And my part of the blame/frustration/anger is that "I made it all to her, I broke her self-confidence" with my (in her opinion/validity) constant criticism and negativity....  It breaks my heart to see her falling apart and hurting  like that.... Again, I'm stepping further and further away to give her the precious gift of time and space. 

Maybe/hopefully she'll someday understands that nobody knowingly wants to hurt the ones they love, and understanding what my past actions/words have done has scarred me too forever.  I cannot change the past, but I can only focus on present - planting seeds for better tomorrow.  I've been doing lot of mindfullness and self-evaluation in these weeks. I thought my initial change of behaviour (Gottmans antitodes against the four horsemen etc) was enough, but I've delved way deeper into myself now and founds lots to improve. As I've learned/realized that all emotions/feelings come within us only, and nothing external cannot control them - it is always about us self how we feel.  Though I won't deny my influence/copartnership in how $h!tety she feels, her emotions come within her, and she must unravel their negative nature alone to find peace to her soul. My memory 90% happy marriage is as valid as her 50% happy marriage...  I can only try to become a better man (for her and myself) if she decides to give a me new chance some day.  I've discoverd anxiety,  judgementalism (criticism/negativity), impatience within me/my behaviour. And fortunately I've learned some good ways to replace them with (mindful) serenity, compassion/empathy, patience... Maybe the changes will be too late to salvage our marriage, but at least I know they will make more of the person I want to be for rest of my life.

Up, up and onwards...
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 01:17:26 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2019, 08:51:10 AM »
Hello,

Quote
She's just so empty/exhausted... She even admitted it at councelling: I exhaust her completely.

This is why you need to detach and act as if she is not part of your life. As long as you try to engage, to speak, to defend or acknowledge, you will be draining her.

It was the same thing when I was a classroom teacher. I had a particular student who did not follow the rules, constantly caused trouble, started fights, and was openly defiant. I just knew that if he was gone, the class would be perfect. He was my only issue.

He did get expelled. He wasn't gone for one day and I still had problems, I still had students that didn't follow rules, got into fights, and were openly defiant.

The problem was with me. I was a brand new teacher and I wasn't that good. I learned more my first year then my students. By my second year, I turned the tide and by year three, I was "the teacher" that parents demanded!

So it was a happy ending.

Quote
she must unravel their negative nature alone to find peace to her soul.

Yes, that is her journey.

Quote
but I've delved way deeper into myself now and founds lots to improve.

Good, but while it is good to take a look at areas you need to improve, look at your strengths. What works for you? When things go well, what is you mindset? What were you thinking at that time?

My point is that we often look at the positives as natural, they just happen, and we don't look at what we did to make that happen. Just as much as you look at your areas to improve, look at what makes you succeed.

You are doing well and I hope that you just let the rope go more and more each day.

Fist bump and while you are at it, stay away from angry peasants! They run around with pitchforks and torches.

Ready

"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2019, 09:21:54 PM »
I'll never been pursued by an agitated pheasant, but other than that I totally know how you feel. I know I've cried more in the past 3 years than in the 40 prior to them. The hardest thing for me is that this person who has been such a source of comfort and security for so long now has nothing to give. The loneliness is just stunning. And watching the person I love fall apart in front of my eyes while knowing there's not much I can to do help her is just such a feeling of utter helplessness.

I agree with everything Ready said and I don't have much to add. The one thing I would chime in with is that I think it's OK to take some time to grieve. You're working on yourself, which is great. But you've suffered a great loss and a severe trauma and it's OK to acknowledge and experience that. If you suppress it, it might tackle you from behind later.

You're doing well. Be strong.

"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out June 2019.

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10871.0

Offline MKnight10

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2019, 04:26:41 PM »
Alvin

Sorry you find yourself here. Your original post resonates with me greatly. I could have written it myself......down to every last detail.

The best you can do is look after yourself and your kids.

There is simply nothing you can do. As you've pointed out, its something within her; you cant fix it....you just cant.

MK

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2019, 04:13:47 AM »
Just to vent out...

Had a bizarre night/morning... For the first time since BD I slept over 7 hours straight.  Not just 4,5 or 6 hours, but 7!!! 

And not did I just sleep, but without dreams of her/us, and I actually felt damn good about life in the morning.  In fact it felt so happy, feeling love (towards her) and grateful (for my past/now life), that I got myself bit worried.  I'm in the middle of what's the biggest crisis of my current life, and there I was having one of the best mornings ever (hugging a teddy bear). What gives?!?  Not sure if all that mindfullness stuff, psychology books etc. is really pulling my spirit up faster than I realize (as these positive vibes have grown and become more and more common eversince  I begun working on myself instead of her/marriage),  or if this is just another phase, or maybe the realization that eventually this too shall pass (and take me to where-ever I have to be in life) is starting to kick in.... Regardless of the cause, I very much like how I feel today/right now :)   


I've been digesting a lot of psychology books (introducing different viewpoints/schools on relationships) in these 3 months, and last night (sitting on sofa by by her, reading, and doing very light small talk on soccer game she was watching) a lot of it simply clicked (or possibly aligned on top of each other would describe it better), and I think I saw/understood some kind of big picture of human relationships.   

How there are two types of relationships out there: those with normal/secure attachment types personalities within, and those with damaged/dysfunctional attachment personality types within.  Sadly ours (and likely most of the MLC/LBS ) had two parts of the latter (or that is at least my perception on reading old topics without knowing the actual people better).  What irony of life it is that "damaged people" usually end up with each others that compliment their hurts at first, but eventually (15-20 years down the road) erupt in painful ways.


And how most of those "save your marriage"/self-help books are for those folks in normal/secure relationship (that can talk and pull the rope together to solve issues); whereas the rest of us (50% according to various sources) just have to deal with dysfunctional history/relationships (call it distancer-pursuer, master-avoidant, codependency,  MLC etc. they are all the same) until we grow out healthier by following totally "against all logic" kind of actions/advice.   

And how the only thing that may heal dysfunctional relationships is time and at least one partners willingness to evolve, grow, and become hole - and pull other partner along if willing.  But it takes time, and the end result might well be something the current us will not like...  Suddenly that famous 7 year life cycle does not sound at all crazy (and what a co-incidence it is that MLC too seems to last more or less the same, LOL).

But it is great that forums /places like this exist (another source of gratefulness for the day)...  Places like this provide a relaxing channel to ponder aloud, even self soothe, stuff like this when one's partner is not ready nor willing for it, but one's growth still requires some kind of mirror to express and talk deep stuff like this aloud, and heal..... Not sure which is better. To be painfully aware where in the "psychological relationship map" I am standing, how damaged I am/have been, and to be guided by the "adult brain" and mindfull actions/thinking in my self-healing. Or to be blissfully unaware (and maybe in total denial of the psychology of it all), being directed by the toddler brain and take the lessons "hard way" (or no way at all,  like I think most in MLC do)...


But now off to enjoy yet another hot summer day... Too hot do anything besides reading, and I've got myself a treat of a book I hope.  About week back I came across with REBT, which is akind of mix of mindfullness and DIY psychotherapy. How one's "unhappiness" is mostly a result of illogical thinking/assumptions of how life must/should/ought to be, whereas the reality could be much lighther when perceiving the self-build illusions... Right now nothing's more fun to challenge oneself to grow and become healthier/happier.  Who knows might even consider GAL besides family some day, LOL.   

I think I haven't laughed /smiled (internally) this much since BD in single day...  Talk about a really bizarre day, indeed.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 04:20:49 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline MKnight10

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2019, 03:31:42 PM »
Great post Alvin.........

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2019, 06:59:14 AM »
So to keep up with my saga...

Having not such a great day compared to yesterday. The first feeling /emotions to crawl out of sleep (ye, another 7+ hours) was mixture of anxiety & grief, and that I was freezing (I kept the bedroom window open for the night, but the night went bit chilly).  Now there's been just some kind of 'numbness' within rest of the day...  I guess it shows how little one should trust on human emotions, as they seem flux oh so easily.  Fortunately I already know how to lift the spirits up: put in some good (energetic) music, spend time with kids, and go outdoors.  There's definitely a plan for rest of the night.

I feel bit guilty for spending so much time (1-3 hours/day) outdoors: distancing myself from her emotionally and physically. Feeling bit like refugee on my own home at times...  But on the positive side, I've noted she's began to do more stuff at home. Maybe she's noted that the "service level" has gone down and she needs to step up as well if wanting the home that is as clean and comfortable as it used to be pre-BD. I still do random small acts of kindness to her (prepare and serve cup of hot green tea on late night etc), but that's pretty much where I draw the line. The rest happens just for myself and family/kids. ...  Oh, and I've lost 9 pounds in these 3+ months (and hopefully will rid rest of the 60 excess pounds over coming months/years regardless of the outcome of her MLC).

Last night she showed some flower pics taken at our backyard. It felt nice, and whole situation was bit surprising.   Been long since she made any kind of communication approach outside kids/family life talk.... But the disconnect is still so strong that I did not bother trying anything else than complimenting her on great looking photos. 

But it seems this will be yet another "peaceful" day under the same roof.  That is lots to be grateful. 
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Thunder

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2019, 08:22:30 AM »
Yes there certainly is a lot to be grateful for.

Wishing you more peaceful days.  8)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2019, 01:36:37 AM »
I'm beginning to feel like I'm inside some very badly written soap opera...

Yesterday  was a replay of sunday at first (feeling awesome when waking up), but then rest of the day turned out not so good.

She started preparing lunch for the family, and turned the music on WITHOUT headspeakers.  Lots and lots of "I'm so broken/miserable..." kind of songs. I knew her playlist was "sad", but this was way more melancholic than I imagined.  I must say I'm nowhere as adamnant as I thought, as I emphatized her pain with every song.  And out flew the happy mood (though I was constantly aware that it was just my mind playing trickery, and was able to remain in inner peace). 

Then later in the evening she asked a question I was so not prepared: why is she  feeling so awful on herself all the time?.

At first I was about to hug her for comfort/strength, but then I recalled the present reality, and just sat down next to her and told "I don't know, and I should/would really not like become her shrink/psychologists at this time... But reading the first few chapters on the REBT book I have might provide some answers.  There's lot of mindfull-type of advice about self-esteem and other emotional stuff that both of us are struggling right now."

She went (somewhat angrily/frustrated tone): oh, I did not recall that I'm the one causing all this misery for myself...
(she's still "refusing" to believe that our inner beliefs/thinking (instead of others) is in charge of how we feel and react, and as such we "technically" create our own happiness and misery... But I can see that the thought of it has "touched" something within her, and though she's trying to deny it, it still haunts her).

And then she took the book, and started browsing/reading it.... I'm like what the...???  Only about week back she was feeling way too exhausted to work any of this... But good for her (I think) if she gets any help from it; at least for me understanding how emotions/feelings are born and how we can try to control them has been a lifesaver.   


Today... definitely not a good day so far. I don't feel so great (maybe too much sleep), and she's been snappy (bad night she told)...  I prepared quick breakfast (tea,bread,cucumber etc) for her before heading to work, and she was like 'why did you place the cover of margarin container below the container. It just messes up the table". I was like "sorry, my mistake."  But she went on (with more frustration on voice) "I've told this million times before, and you still do it"... I kept on reapeating calmly  "Sorry, my mistake. I try to remember. It is hard for me to remember some things like this, but I will eventually learn it, as I value you and want to get it done right way". And then I just pulled away from the situation without getting stuck to cycle of repeating same again and again...      I know I could have said "I'm sorry you feel that way" (as she's the one creating all the frustration of the situation), but in the end this is something I know I could/should do better (just to show how much I appreciate her).  But for some reason this is just one of those "small" things I cannot seem to get on my head no matter how hard I try.  And it saddens me.

Oh how I miss the "normal" life that I/we had not so long back... But I know this too shall pass one way or another eventually.   
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 02:06:36 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2019, 04:48:19 AM »
Hello,

Quote
'why did you place the cover of margarin container below the container. It just messes up the table".

This is classic MLC speaking. Just looking for anything to spark a fight. Little things to justify their anger  being a direct result of your actions, your existence.

Quote
"I've told this million times before, and you still do it"...

I heard this as well. Yep, more of the same. Mine would telll me that I purposefully left things out so she would trip and fall. Just nonsense and more verbal spew.

It's good you are reading and focusing on your own emotional state. After all, you can only control you and your mindset will enable yu to focus on your changes.

Glad you are losing the weight. Just make sure you eat right and take care of yourself. Nothing wrong with getting a good night's sleep. That will also put you in a better spirit to deal with your MLCer.

I would also limit my apology to one time. After all, she raised her voice at you, did she apologize?

You are doing well and your activities and self focus are going to help you in the long run.

Fist bump,

Ready
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2019, 06:04:23 AM »
I would also limit my apology to one time. After all, she raised her voice at you, did she apologize?

How did you...?  True, she did not apologize. And I did not even notice her not apologizing.
I guess it just shows  how deep this thing just sucks you within,  distorts what used to be normal and what is not.


Glad you are losing the weight. Just make sure you eat right and take care of yourself.

Yep...  Due to my (chronic) health issues I'm more than well aware of the importance of eating well + rest....  If nothing more, this should provide me with "alternative universe with measurable progress" while being sucked within all this.  Just do more physical excercice + reduce calorie intake, and keep track of progress (weekly/monthly).
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 06:05:57 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Thunder

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2019, 06:56:31 AM »
Alvin, I agree with Ready, apologize only once and it needs no explanation..just..ok, I'm sorry.  Then leave it alone.  If you feel there is no need to apologize then.."Sorry you feel that way."
Don't pretzel yourself for her.

You can not "nice" her out of this Alvin no matter how hard you try, she will not respond like you want her to.

A normal, polite thing for her to do would be to thank you for making her breakfast.  But I think you know this.    :)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2019, 03:33:55 AM »
Having another crappy day in row.  Back to 5+ hour sleep: too much stuff rummaging inside my brains combined to bad weather. I feel a headache coming my way....  I read somewhere  "what consumes your mind is what controls your life".   The concious me is realizing I'm giving this situation (and along with it her) too much thought;  that I should focus more on doing things that empower me, something light and fun as well. But today I'm lacking energy...  Oh how I wish my brains had a switch-button for quick and easy detachment, surrendering and acceptance. It would make life so much easier.

Trying to remind myself of all the good aspects of living with inhouse MLC partner: family is still intact, finances are still intact, kids get to see that relationships are not always easy., I get to grow and know myself and my limits really well and  in depth...  I know I should be grateful all these, but when heading to work I just wanted to shout out aloud how I hate MLC.  Anger it was, for universe/life taking away what I (thought I) had.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 03:38:48 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Silver

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2019, 03:55:50 AM »
Helped me to leave the house often enough, to do anything but be at home monkey braining. Saying that, I had really low energy phase too, got home from work and did only absolute necessary stuff like feed kids and got under my blanket like it would isolate me from horrible situation. Detachment is difficult when living under same roof, you need to get out of there as much as you can and do whatever is not related to her.
Just my 2 cents.

"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2019, 05:12:46 AM »
Feeling better today (also slept better)...   Woke up with the though "why am I putting so much though on how she feels of me. It's ME and my feelings and my wellbeing whom I should be putting attention into right now"...  Feeling something unlocked on that moment (at least for the day, hopefully it will be same way tomorrow as well).

Last night I had the wonderful possibility to dive into world of ranting/resentful MLCr and watch & learn.  Feeling bit like anthropologist when looking at her behaviour...

I asked W about our second oldest girls birthday plans: whether party would be at our place or at W grandparents.
She shighed, and started ranting (again frustrated tone): how could you not get that it will be at my grandparents. Thats why I asked me yesterday to fix the bike, so I could cycle there." 
Me (with calm/friendly voice): You never said explicitly why you needed the bike fix, and I did not make any assumptions.  That's why I asked where we will celebrate.
Of course she begun cycling how I should have jumped to conclusion, but I just said "Good, the plan is clear now. All OK now. See you", and walked away to do other stuff.

Later the night one of our girls stepped in with the margarin container lid "trap" (despite I had placed a warning sticker "do not place this lid under the container" just to remember myself).... And W gave her the same rant as for me, adding how everyone else for some reason did not realize how bad a practice it was.

At evening snack W started instructing (again with frustrated tone) me & kids voice how pepper should be sliced (as Jamie Oliver's style was apparently not to her liking).... Just allowed her to vent out, listening silenty and compassionately smiling within.

And as I came off reading a bedtime story to our youngest, she started ranting how wrong I did for not starting with the first volume of the book series (and even the wrong series in her opinion), and how she had (and would) read them in correct order for the kids.  Again just let her say all there was, and then said just "OK" and then headed on my own.

It's kind of funny how W is failing to see how her own demands (of behaviours/actions of me and others) is making and building all that tension and frustration within her.   As if she is fully lacking the ability to realize "you can't change others, only yourself"...  But realizing this also makes oh so clearly why she needs and wants the distance and space: she experiences my/kids doings wrong most of the time, and the more so happens, the more anxiety/frustration she builds up. I think I get some extra annoyment points upon the fact that I'm no longer taking the bait of argumenting/cycling with her...   Clearly this kind of thinking cannot go on forever without massive eruption (or crashdown) of some sorts. Heaven help me & family (& her) that day. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 05:22:04 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2019, 01:06:10 PM »
Still feeling all ok, mostly thinking happy and grateful thoughts of life when waking up in the morning and throughout the day . Mysterious. I cannot help wondering what boundary my mind has  crossed...  I read somewhere that happiness does not motivate a person to change their way of live.  Do tell, LOL. If I would not have gone to hell and back again and again  in vein attempts to get her to love me, and broken my heart again and again with each new revelation coming out to light, and eventually breaking my mental health when realizing she might dump me, I definitely would not have become what I now am.  I can already say that the "old me" is dead as dodo and not coming back; not sure if I want or must change any more; but somehow I doubt the universe will ask my willingness.  Whatever is coming out of me is about be fabulous, independent and strong; I can already sense it. 

I feel I'm slowly but surely getting back to my 'old habbits' after these 3½ hell-ish months... Few nights back I started reading a bedtime book (instead of psychology books).  And today I planted some tomatoes and flowers on the garden (hopefully not for the last time). And then went on the beach with my youngest ones....     Some new habbits kicking in as well... For the first in my married life I'm actually jogging/running for fun.  It's my new routine on the morning, and last thing on the late night, and sometimes in middle of the day too.  3½ months back I was happy to last for 30 seconds with body crying for break, now I can somewhat easily jog for 5-10+ minutes non-stop and after a short break start again.  And it feels good (despite being obese)... I think it is my way to channel some of the hidden anger as most of the music I listen while jogging around is slighty put "empowering"...    Not booking my marathon ticket yet, but who knows. It seems I've got lots and lots of time practice, so anything's possible.   

I and W have been changing beds every other night for about month, so that we get equal amount of morning wakeups and cuddling from our youngest (my idea, not hers). Last night W asked If she could sleep weekends entirely at master bedroom/marital bed  (to have longer sleep, as our son usually wakes up around 7AM and that is pretty much the only silent place then).  No problem for me as I'm usually up around 6-7AM regardless of what day it is...But I can't help thinking if I'm  making life too comfortable for her. In the end she could/should try to reduce gaming and Youtube on nights (basically she's just numbing her brains, likely an effort to keep status quo with situation)...  Oh how I dread the day when our youngest asks why aren't we sleeping in same bed or room anymore, and why are not we having family hugs. Not trying to make a number of it, but he's a smart 5yo.  But I will not be the one explaining as I don't have the answers why we cannot sleep on same room/bed (as I've given her an oath not to touch her as long as she so prefers).

Did draw a new boundary for W...  Yesterday she snapped to our youngest, telling how S5 is chronic lier (did not take his blanket to bed, despite saying he had - not the first time nor the first issue ). I very gently but forcefully stated that asking S5 to fix a thing like is one thing, but blaming a 5yo. chronic lier is another...  Needless to say W did not take it very well; saw it another example of me stepping over her authority. I just reminded that we are on the same team with kids, trying to raise them healthy and happy.... I'm just shocked that as a person with low self-esteem issues, she cannot she the potential harm her words can do to our kids.  Later I told S5 that he's a good kid and doing his tasks well... 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 01:16:55 PM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2019, 04:37:15 PM »
So sorry you're going through this. It sucks. It's so hard. I hate it.

My W has been home for 3 1/2 years and is now moving out for what (she says) is 3 months.

No advice for you but to echo what Silver said. One thing I've failed at is having fun. If you can find some activity that gets you out of your head for a while, do as much of it as you can.

Stay strong and be good to yourself.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out June 2019.

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10871.0

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2019, 06:42:56 AM »
Thanks PJ.... 

One of those questions I've been thinking (even monkey braining) recently is how do people with live-in MLC'rs (especially low-energy/wallower type) pull through day-to-day life? I mean you have to have patience of a saint (and more).  And endless flexibility and some boundaries to keep family life as normal as possible.  Surely there is a topic on that somewhere in these discussions?

For example right now I'm looking at her mattress on living room floor for third day in a row (unless I take it away she just "forgets" it)... Few nights back our G18 (who's back home for few nights) looked at the mattres and asked her why cant we sleep in same bedroom and bed.  No response from W, but I said "It's one of the mysteries of universe I have no answer.  Not even sure if your mother knows...".   Deep within I felt some kind of satisfaction as I had told W that sooner or later the kids would ask about the reasons of sleeping arrangement.  Well, that's one in, four more to come.  Not really sure how to react with the mattress at all.  It does irk me on some level, but much less than in the beginning - what worries me most is what it teaches to kids (but I try to rely on her words, as long as we don't make it anything special, kids will not be harmed by it).

As for life, it's been strange in recent week (possibly the new norm for my life).

We got into "parenting/relationship talk" last Sunday, and it became more sane than I ever imagined... S5 and W were visiting family friends and came home quite late.  Both were tired, but she was very frustrated as S5 had not behaved up to her expectations, had asked his friend to shoot W with watergun, blast her soaking wet, and then both had run away from her (yes, it was bad behaviour, but I cannot help chuckling with the image of it all happening). Needless to say she was erupting like vulcano when back at home...  I tried to distract and calm her by offering cup of tea and  giving S5 some late night snack - but she just went on in frustration/anger untill S5 started crying.  And that is where I draw yet another boundary: told her firmly but calmly to cool down.  Yes, S5 behaviour had been out of line, but so was hers IMHO.  She pointed all her frustration towards me, but I just stayed firm and calm, and told "no more frustration and anger like this towards or in front of kids, please", and then backed away from situation...  Later I went to talk to her (well aware that she might explode or withdraw), and asked very gently what the hell was it all about. To my surprise she whispered that my sidetrailing attempt made her feel devalued; as if her point (expressing anger/frustration toward S5's bad behaviour and how bad she felt) was worthless to everyone.  I asked what's the better alternative, and she said I should have said "let's take some tea and talk together what happened".  Then I gently asked why was she feeling so frustrated with the situation on the first place, and  why was it important to express frustration, and above all what did she feel behind it all... After silence,and few repeats of the same questions, she whispered "...because of low self-esteem.... it was not like that always... ".... After that she closed up for rest of the night....  I can see a soul that is truly suffering within. But she's got a point in there. I could have approached the situation differently, in more co-operative spirit, and will try to do so in future.

The following day brought another interesting event... G19 phoned her and told her driving lesson had been a disaster. The driving instructor had behaved badly, shouted at her, devaluing her driving skills etc.  Then W told a story/advice that made me think the connections between past and present behaviour... W had experienced a similar situation 20+ years back.  She recalled everything about the incident, and then gave G19 advice I think most people would not think in such situation. "Seek the nearest parking lot. And say you need to pause there and gather the thoughts before being able to carry on.   And no matter what the instructior says or yells, just wait there as long as you need to, and if nothing else works then walk out..."  I can see how it might be good way to avoid confrontation and getting oneself together, but I think a more "normal" response would be to simply say "hey, I'm trying my best. Please don't behave badly. Can you give me better instructions (or I'll file a report on you)"...   Later the night I asked if she still remembers the anger and frustration caused by the situation, and she replied "some yes"...  I can definitely see where this current behaviour, avoiding confrontation, escaping,  and not forgiving/building resentment, is coming from.  She's repeating the same pattern here and now.

It is interesting to follow how her reactions counterpart my behavorial changes...  As I've learned to avoid most of her attempts to get negative/fight reaction out of me, she's coming up with new ways to express resentment and get me involved into situations. Few months back in MC she told how my best feature was taking care of kids/family; now she's openly trumpetting how a man who's been married with kids for 20 years don't know how to get ready for this and that, and then she generalizes it to  "oh, that's what all men do"... But I know it's her problem, not mine (though I do listen in case there is really something I should truly work upon). Just calmly say "Sorry you feel that way; I still cannot read minds, and thus cannot fill any expectations you are not telling me right at the moment".

I had my final IC/therapy session for the summer season midweek.  As the weather was fine, I opted to cycle there - 12 miles oneway.  Sweaty job, but lots of fun (and hopefully it will help to loose some weight)..  Therapist liked my progress, asked if this could/should be final session. Told I would prefer to carry on at least for few sessions more (as she's the only one I can talk about this stuff and my feelings), so a new session is scheduled for August...  Possibly the most striking thing was that she said I'm clearly a positive person/thinker,.  I told W (and kids) have told the opposite, and as such I've always considered myself  something of a opposite. Live and learn.

Later I went shopping with G19, and decided to buy a diary for W.  Not sure if she ever puts it into use, but at least it will be there for her on the long run (unless trashed)... Wrote a dedication "May this diary be your companion on the road of Dukkha... xx, your husband".  She was surprised by the diary,  and asked what the Dukkha was about.  Told her it Buddhist term for "life's suffering" - all the bad, good and indifferent that comes along with hardships of life.   
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 06:50:28 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Silver

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2019, 12:17:48 AM »
First of all Alvin, you are doing very good bro. In my opinion you are at right rails by focusing your actions more and more on yourself. Like jogging and any other physical activity, keeps you out of house and of her way while you can empty your mind or process your thoughts, whatever is good for you. AND getting at better shape little by little, I started jogging a month after BD and 2 months after I started, I ran 10 km:s. Started from 1 minute, knee operated and not in good shape at all, overweight etc. Exercising of any kind also is very good channel to let the steam out, be it about anger, frustration or whatever. And as you know already, the feeling after a run is just, well great. Keep doing whatever exercise/physical activity is good for you!

I have to say that you seem to cope much better with your Midlifer as I did with mine when still lived together. Like you said, it demands so much but you have done good. You need some boundaries to protect yourself and kids, like you have done this far. Building resentment, blaming and projecting are something you can't stop her doing but you have control on not being reactive, like you noticed already, she will find new ways to offer you the blame and get her resentment she needs for her journey. Don't take the bait but keep your boundaries.

I would still avoid relationship talks, even they may be (or seem to be) 'sane' sometimes. That's bc it's not what MLCer wants or aims at, solving any problems with them or try to make anything that's benefiting your marriage yet they are full of pits to step in. That's what I learned the hard way, though I can't say I wasn't warned, I was but still got into it too many times. Discussion about children, when staying in that subject is good and important, the part of normality, or it should be anyway - you are still co-parents to your kids and will be in the future as well.

Still feeling all ok, mostly thinking happy and grateful thoughts of life when waking up in the morning and throughout the day . Mysterious. I cannot help wondering what boundary my mind has  crossed...  I read somewhere that happiness does not motivate a person to change their way of live.  Do tell, LOL. If I would not have gone to hell and back again and again  in vein attempts to get her to love me, and broken my heart again and again with each new revelation coming out to light, and eventually breaking my mental health when realizing she might dump me, I definitely would not have become what I now am.  I can already say that the "old me" is dead as dodo and not coming back; not sure if I want or must change any more; but somehow I doubt the universe will ask my willingness.  Whatever is coming out of me is about be fabulous, independent and strong; I can already sense it. 

You are feeling empowerment, I totally believe it will last bc you seem already found something real important: this stage in your life, this horrible situation you never asked for, has been a gift for you as well as you wouldn't probably had be in this process with YOURSELF. As long as you stay on that track and make it for your benefit (not denying anything though but accepting that this is the situation) you are a winner in the end. And she has nothing to say about it, no matter what she chooses, you still have made the best out of worst. I feel I did it quite well, I'm sure you'll do even better.

Btw I would abstain giving any gifts to her for now, though your idea was real nice.


« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 12:19:19 AM by Silver »
"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2019, 08:16:01 AM »
I started jogging a month after BD and 2 months after I started, I ran 10 km:s. Started from 1 minute, knee operated and not in good shape at all, overweight etc.

You are making me jealous.  I wish I could do 10km...  But I know, it's all about patience, time and practice (kind of funny how much it sounds like MLC).  I'd just so much would love to see it all happen much faster.  But each day I notice I can do bit more and have become more resiliant,  and possibly that is good comparison for this whole process.

What worries me most is the upcoming winter (still 3-4 months ahead).  It will become very hard, possibly impossible to jog/run outdoors (too much snow + too cold)... But maybe I'll buy myself a pair of hockey skates instead, LOL.  And there's a small local gym with some weights etc. I could go into.   So I know it's basically just a matter of will and imagination to get myself on the move. But I'm not giving up anymore...   


You are feeling empowerment....  As long as you stay on that track and make it for your benefit (not denying anything though but accepting that this is the situation) you are a winner in the end.

I wish my feelings of empowerment were adamnant, but my emotions still do shift/cycle...    For example yesterday and today have been somewhat hard, as my thoughts have been more on her and marriage than myself.  And I know it's not necessarily a good line of thinking, and as such I keep on reminding myself "hey, put focus back on myself and my NEW life situation".

It is bit surprising to acknowledge that part of me just would want to walk out of the door and say "adios", and let her deal with the MLC mess and family life all alone... Another part of me just would like to throw her out of the house (with friendly "adios"), and focus on building family life with kids but without her...  And then there's the clinger who desperately craves the old life back...  I know all these thoughts are created mostly by anxiety, (fear of) abandonment, and impatience I feel, and as such I can shrud them off somewhat easily now...  And possibly that's one part of the new me I very strongly like: I can easily tell a difference when I'm having a "feeling based desire" and "thinking/reason based desire" - and opt for and approve the latter regardless how umcomfortable it might feel right now.  Kind of amazing what you can learn when you have to.

Not so surprisingly she seems to be struggling with the escape thoughts.... Last night she was having bit of hard time with S5, and she then expressed  her frustration aloud with wish/desire to move into monestary to get peace and silence (and she was not joking of it).  That's actually something I might be in favor off , LOL.  But it is amazing how this woman who loved and adored family live now seems to resent it. 

As for gifts... I know they are NO-NO in MLC recommedations, but they are something I do more because of "myself" than for her.  In words of Tennyson: 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.'... Doing loving, even romantic acts of kindness (without expectations of any kind) is something that reminds my heart who I am, who I love, and why haven't I walked out; and maybe it helps in keeping resentment and bitterness out of my heart ... On the other hand I do recall the boundaries: they are not one-way-street.  She's not feeling the love for me, and I do my best to honor that decision. 
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2019, 09:29:01 AM »
Oh, and while I still remember, this is something I'd like to share bc it got me thinking how lucky I and most here actually are...

Last week I met a nice gal (nice looking too, something which I would have not noted before) at local Facebook group for people going through marital issues. We started exchanging messages, and did so for several days. She was very much like my W. Same kind of personality, same kind of background etc.   But about 4 years back her long term H had given the ILYBWNLYAM talk, then affairs, momster and whole MLC script.  Eventually she had booted him out, but the process  had had heavy toll on her physical and mental health.  After divorce life had not gone well for her, as nobody had told her the importance to focus on oneself.  Instead of looking inwards she had focused on searching outward solutions.

Ever since divorce she had been desperately been looking for Prince Charming by all means possible, even in facebook groups where up-and-coming divorcing guys are easily found. She felt she needed a new male partner ASAP to make her happy and feel the love, to bring her old lifestyle and dreams back, to become father for her children, to give her freedom, to save her life... Needless to say this landed her with "not so good men", that took further advantage of the wreck she had become, and damaged her more.... And her heart was so full of resentment and anger towards her exH and new family.   

I feel so sad for her....  We here are fortunate to get guidance in form of "focus on yourself, and move on".  Life may feel and seem harsh for us, but out there are poor souls who travel a route even more difficult than us...  Though I'm not a religious person, all I can think of is the phrase "may lord have mercy on her soul".
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 09:41:40 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2019, 01:52:28 AM »
Just gotta lighten up the heart....

My G19 called at 8AM. Very unlike her to be up and on the move so early, so I hunched something was amiss... At first she told that her phone repair (broken glass) had been rescheduled by few weeks due to summer vacations, after a while she started telling how she's not been eating much lately, everything felt youcky and she was feeling miserable (I was thinking "oh here's comes the baby news"),  and the next thing she's telling how things are not going well with her and the boyfriend (they were pretty serious, so this was real bummer). It's been a week that they've seen or spoken besides some texts, and she's feeling so lonely in their new flat (especially when the night falls). She was even considering moving back to home...   

What's a father supposed to in times like this..? I mean we've always been close and connected, but this is the first time any of my girls has spoken this honestly and vulnerably about their love life to me.  I know G19 has  talked some stuff with W and her godmother (W's sister) in the past, but I guess something's shifted now (possibly my post-BD efforts to get even closer to kids are yilding results; possibly she's sensing that her mother is not her usual self now; possibly she's seeing that I too am vulnerable and know the pain of broken heart)...   Though I always kind of thought that I understood what the "#1 rule is to be there for your kids, they need you", the shape and form of the need totally surprised me. All these months my primary focus has been taking care of kids inhouse, but the need for the support came from my oldest who was already out of the nest. And it involved love/relationships. Talk about irony of life...

I so much wanted to cry out that I know precisely what it feels like within (especially the nights when you are feeling lonely), but I just pushed emotions aside and allowed the reason/mind do all the talking.

That love/loving is easy, but relationships can be very diffucult at times. 

That sometimes it takes space, and lots of time (not just hours, days, weeks; but but months, years and decades) to fix things, and sometimes even all of it isn't enough - and in the meantime the best you can do is focus on yourself and wellbeing both physically and mentally, and move on.

That anxiety and worrying leads to nowhere but personal misery. That you can change only yourself, not others - and she should worry and work only that stuff she truly can change/influence. And worrying of the past/future events causes nothing but heartache; the real power is with the present moment and actions.

That sometimes getting out of the house is best thing to do (her godmother had given the same advice - she's been through way too many breakups). I asked G19 to join our family trip (me + kids going away to meet my family for 2-3 weeks; a summer tradition of ours for the past 15 years-  kind of maintenance/holiday for the W), and she preliminary got excited by it and agreed to join us for one week.

If the whole situation was odd and new, even more odd was that W was awake and listening to our talk in neighboring room, and she provided zero comments.   Not sure if all of was indifferent to her, or was she too keeping some kind of pokerface...   These are mysterious times.

I kind of feel that some "dad-part" within me grew inches taller... I've had the first "serious" relationship talk with my kids.  I did not fail it. Idid not need my W to guide me.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 02:08:27 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Silver

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2019, 02:37:11 AM »
I started jogging a month after BD and 2 months after I started, I ran 10 km:s. Started from 1 minute, knee operated and not in good shape at all, overweight etc.
You are making me jealous.  I wish I could do 10km...  But I know, it's all about patience, time and practice (kind of funny how much it sounds like MLC).  I'd just so much would love to see it all happen much faster.  But each day I notice I can do bit more and have become more resiliant,  and possibly that is good comparison for this whole process.

What worries me most is the upcoming winter (still 3-4 months ahead).  It will become very hard, possibly impossible to jog/run outdoors (too much snow + too cold)... But maybe I'll buy myself a pair of hockey skates instead, LOL.  And there's a small local gym with some weights etc. I could go into.   So I know it's basically just a matter of will and imagination to get myself on the move. But I'm not giving up anymore...   

No need to be jealous, I couldn't do nearly 10 km:s today  ::) Have struggled with my operated knee etc stuff, you probably are in better shape atm than me.
For winter jogging I bought a pair of spiked winter sneakers, they are really good if you have ploughed lane to run you don't have to worry about ice!

I wish my feelings of empowerment were adamnant, but my emotions still do shift/cycle...    For example yesterday and today have been somewhat hard, as my thoughts have been more on her and marriage than myself.  And I know it's not necessarily a good line of thinking, and as such I keep on reminding myself "hey, put focus back on myself and my NEW life situation".

That's inevitable that you cycle, we all did, that's how it goes buddy. The most important thing is that you HAVE those moment of empowerment and are capable to shift your focus back on your wellbeing and everything you can do for you. To me, accepting 'bad' days and moments was/is important, no need to deny them, that's part of process and life itself! Just trust on your ability to cope with your emotions, you are doing very good and give all the time to yourself that YOU need to heal. I mean, I'm not totally healed or recovered, still having those darker moments even been divorced for 1,5 years now, but they are not anything like at BD's time, which isn't further behind me than couple of years. In fact I think it is a scar that will always be there the rest of my life but I'm perfectly fine with it existing and live my life on. I feel I'm truly getting myself back little by little and she doesn't have anything to do with that person but two lovely kids.

As for gifts... I know they are NO-NO in MLC recommedations, but they are something I do more because of "myself" than for her.  In words of Tennyson: 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all.'... Doing loving, even romantic acts of kindness (without expectations of any kind) is something that reminds my heart who I am, who I love, and why haven't I walked out; and maybe it helps in keeping resentment and bitterness out of my heart ... On the other hand I do recall the boundaries: they are not one-way-street.  She's not feeling the love for me, and I do my best to honor that decision. 

I believe the recommendation is about detachment and also not putting pressure on MLC'er (which spouse's gift may feel to them). But as long as you don't do it for her but for yourself and don't expect anything in return, like niceing her out of tunnel, then I think it doesn't have that much importance whether you give them or not. If you see her being uncomfortable when getting them, stop giving. Probably she just don't care  ::)

Not so surprisingly she seems to be struggling with the escape thoughts.... Last night she was having bit of hard time with S5, and she then expressed  her frustration aloud with wish/desire to move into monestary to get peace and silence (and she was not joking of it).  That's actually something I might be in favor off , LOL.  But it is amazing how this woman who loved and adored family live now seems to resent it. 

It's amazing isn't it! Pure script. Mine gave me exact words from playbook of "being trapped in her life" etc. She also once shouted "if things are not going to change in a week I will move out and won't be missing any of you!" when got frustrated for NORMAL family life with small kids.  :o :o

I really admire how you handled your G19's call, dude! That's the father you want to be and are already.

"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Offline Father5

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2019, 05:45:39 AM »
HI Alvin,

    My wife is also having these escape thoughts. She is not a live in but still has them. She wants to be a part time mom. She looks forward to her time without the kids and is always looking for ways to get long periods without them.

  As far as your oldest daughter goes I wouldn't personally step in. I would be there for support but ultimately this is part of growing up and something I think she needs to experience. The pain and loneliness she is feeling will only make her stronger as she starts to heal from the breakup.

  Keep doing what your doing Alvin the running is great. I have lost over 50lbs on the LBS diet !
Together 12 yrs Married 5
5 kids 3- Step (21) (20) (18) Two together ( 8 ) (9)
BD1 March 2018 - I wish I could give you more of what you need
BD2 Aug 2018 - I want a divorce sent by text ILWYBNILWY

O/M Discovered Nov-18

Online readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2019, 07:53:11 AM »
Hello,

Quote
Though I always kind of thought that I understood what the "#1 rule is to be there for your kids, they need you", the shape and form of the need totally surprised me. All these months my primary focus has been taking care of kids inhouse, but the need for the support came from my oldest who was already out of the nest. And it involved love/relationships. Talk about irony of life...

It's so funny, but in the past two years, I have been more of a parent to my oldest daughter (age 23) than ever although I would say it has been more of a mentor and coach role. She is a new teacher so she calls me for tips and ideas.She also is in a relationship and they are in the process of moving to a new city and trying to make the wise choices regarding finances and everything else.

I can truly see in your situation how your focus is on the kids in the house. They are there and it is easy to see the D that is out of the house as 'fine". Then she called and became your little girl all over again. I think you were really strong and more empathetic as you know how much a heart can hurt. Yes, you are building bonds and trust that will last over a lifetime. Good job dad!

To be honest, I am at a loss in regards to your young son. It's one thing for monster at you. You can detach and separate the monster and not let your wife's comments affect you to some degree. Not your son. He doesn't have the capacity to rationalize your w's statements. He takes them all personally. The incident with the water needed to focus on the behavior. "You got Mommy's clothes wet and made her feel bad." That puts the focus on the action not the child.

I understand your w wanting support, but you cannot be a good co-parent when the actions are hindering the growth of your child. He is at the age where he needs to be recognized for doing things that help the family. That he is part of the team. Take him out to garden with you. Have him help you cook or clean. He won't be perfect, but believe me he will appreciate the attention and praise.

Also realize he is young and his attention span at best is 5-6 minutes. He may garden for a bit and then go off to do something else. It's okay.

I am reflecting on how to approach your w when dealing with the children. I will post later or hopefully someone else can come in and chime in.

Have a great day and know that you are doing your best under difficult situations.

Fist bump,

Ready



"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2019, 10:32:44 AM »
Hi Father5,

My wife is also having these escape thoughts. She is not a live in but still has them. She wants to be a part time mom. She looks forward to her time without the kids and is always looking for ways to get long periods without them.

I think the need to escape somehow links to dysfunctional attachment styles most MLC/LBS people seem to have (just my opinion based on what I've read from various MyStories, no factuals behind this). 

For example my W has always been dismissive-avoidant of some degree, and now I see this behaviour peaking within her louder than ever.  And I was as obvious anxious/preoccupied-avoidant as possible, and my drives went totally nuts after BD.  I cannot imagine what goes within the MLCrs head, but if it is anything like those two months I lived after BD (before crashing my mental health), then the urge/drive to follow attachment style based actions will be almost impossible to override (without crashing ones mental health, LOL - which in a way co-exists with what Shocksis' sis has been telling: it takes a major crisis/life-event of some kinds to get MLCr awake and away from the fog)...   I think a lot of it comes down to anxiety and how well we all deal with extremes of it  (there's even psychological term "anxiety fog", which is akind of pre-state to delirium).  When you have two people who represent the opposite extremes of attachments styles with anxiety, well, ka-boom!!!   That's why I think it was Thunder's signature that pretty much showed me that the only path through this all will be: "A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."


As far as I can tell, what seems to be feeding my W's anxiety and frustration is poor/crashed self-esteem....  We had some snack earlier today, and she was once again ranting clearly frustrated by the "chaos" I'd consider normal family life.  So I decided to poke a bit, and approached her using the EAR-formula I came upon last night (https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/hci-articles/2018/3/11/calming-upset-people-with-ear ). It is lot like the "I'm sorry you feel that way statement" , but adds few softer elements to it... To my surprise she didn't just clam up, but told she feels that nobody in the family listens, reacts or shows any respect with what she is saying or trying to teach... Of course it's all within her head (but that part I didn't say aloud).  But I can well imagine how even everyday actions can feel overwhelming for her if she lacks the internal "trust" that people around her love, honor and respect her.   

And space I am trying to provide.   Like I wrote in previous update, one of our annual family traditions has been giving W "a summer holiday" by taking kids to see my family.  Though life is rough now, I am not about to make exceptions. The trip matters a lot to kids and they expect it for months (I guess some fun visits in between the trip make it oh so popular), and for me seeing my brother and father is somewhat important event (we see only once a year unless something really serious happens; otherwise we just catch up by phone once or twice a week)...  I would be lying if I told I am totally carefree what happens when we're gone, but fortunately I feel I've already reached the state where I'm no longer obsessed on what W does or does not do.  What worries me more are the questions I know my brother and father will be asking, and how they will react to "there's nothing I can do to solve the situation" answer I can provide. 



As far as your oldest daughter goes I wouldn't personally step in. I would be there for support but ultimately this is part of growing up and something I think she needs to experience. The pain and loneliness she is feeling will only make her stronger as she starts to heal from the breakup.

That's what I kindof figured... We already had another one hour talk on topic on life, relationships, future etc...  She's dealing it way more maturely than I am dealing my situation, but I can see oh so painfully that she's just like a younger version of me (with same anxious/preoccupied-avoidant attachment style).... The funny part was when she said "my god, I'm beginning to sound and act just like you two".


Keep doing what your doing Alvin the running is great. I have lost over 50lbs on the LBS diet !
Oh, that's giving me strength... 

« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 10:37:24 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2019, 10:50:20 AM »
Hello,
To be honest, I am at a loss in regards to your young son. It's one thing for monster at you. You can detach and separate the monster and not let your wife's comments affect you to some degree. Not your son. He doesn't have the capacity to rationalize your w's statements. He takes them all personally. The incident with the water needed to focus on the behavior. "You got Mommy's clothes wet and made her feel bad." That puts the focus on the action not the child.

I understand your w wanting support, but you cannot be a good co-parent when the actions are hindering the growth of your child. He is at the age where he needs to be recognized for doing things that help the family. That he is part of the team. Take him out to garden with you. Have him help you cook or clean. He won't be perfect, but believe me he will appreciate the attention and praise.

Also realize he is young and his attention span at best is 5-6 minutes. He may garden for a bit and then go off to do something else. It's okay.


Thanks... These reflect my thoughts and understanding oh so well.  That is one reason I am drawing and building the boundaries, and finding "special spots/moments" to show and tell S5 is doing well and is "as good as a boy can be"... What makes the situation so painful are the mixed messages W is sending.  One moment she's the perfect loving mother, the next she's letting her frustration come out. Like two different personalities.




« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 10:51:54 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2019, 02:11:11 AM »
Got a long night behind, and I'm feeling both empty and full at the same time (talk about paradox).

I was in middle of reading bedtime story for S5 when G19 called again; she was having another "breakup anxiety" attack. The whole situation became bit of hassle as I tried to seek out someone to step in with storytelling, and surprisingly W pulled the phone off my hands.  And on that moment W said "what's wrong,pumpkin, tell to mama" I saw the "old her" there.  There were no masks, just pure love & caring towards our girl distress.  W mostly listened (looking like a mother taking care of her newborn baby), and then after 4-5 minutes gave phone back to me saying "dad will continue from here".   

I put my clothes on and headed outdoors to continue the talking. G19 and I talked almost three hours nonstop of love, relationships, life...  We laughed, we cried, we shared. We bonded together. (and we both said and acknowledged it)...  G19 is such a  smart young woman now, and doing oh so well with pain of broken heart.  But yet I was able to fill in and share lots of voids with wisdom life (and especially these months after BD) have taught me.  And as she started to understood the big picture of love and relationships, she calmed down. She's no longer heading full steam to "it's a breakup", she's no longer afraid of breakup,  she's no longer seeking "immediate solution/fix"to what is,  but seeing that there are number of options that all come down to "time and patience".  Love/loving is easy, relationships are hard and take time - that's what I taught her. 

When I came back home W was (as usual) sitting on sofa, headphones on and playing some online game.  I asked was she interested in learning what G19 and I had talked in the past 3 hours; and she said "I don't know. You tell me".  To me it just seemed such a great shift of interest compared to earlier, but I still started summing up things.  She mostly listened in silence, and few occasions asked some short questions.

I don't recall on what point the talk turned to us and our situation, possibly when I told her that G19 had told me she idolized the marriage of W's parents, and the two things she told she had learned from our marriage were "allowing emotions/feelings to control reactions" and "what not talking leads into" (talk about sad legacy).  Then W said something I cannot get out of my head... "I don't know how I appear outside (I gently said "like a dead, frozen tree that's all clammed up to shell"), but I do have emotions and feelings. I have got so many emotions and feelings that they are bursting out my hands, ears  and body all the time.  And they're not all me or mine. I feel what others feel, all the time, it's drowning me and it is not a good thing... I don't know if I'll ever be able to feel just me.  This will take time, lots of time, possibly forever. I am not superhuman (like some), who know how to control their emotions... "...  She's clearly a prisoner within her head, fighing her own demons...   Is that co-dependency, depression or some other mental disorder, MLC,... beats me.  All I know that is not how any person should feel.

I gently told her "what we're doing right now, taking distance and detaching, giving the gift of time and possibly letting go totally, is what we need right now.  You need it to discover yourself, as much as I needed it to disover myself....  I've found haven of peace and love within myself. I'll be there if you need me, still loving you regardless of where life may take us...  And I know, this will take time. Lots and lots time...".

She just replied  "I don't fully get what you are saying".  After that she just "lost interest" to talk. So I wished good night  (at 1AM) , and walked offas she continued to play the online  games... 

This morning when I woke up i realized that the talk I and G19 had gone was precisely the kind of talk I would have needed after BD.  But I had nobody in my life.  I did call my brother and father the morning following BD, but neither of them were unable to provide the kind of advice, support and connection I was able to give to my girl...  Not sure why, but I feel this talk with my G19 somehow healed parts of me (though I was the teacher/mentor)...   As twisted as it may sound, I am once again feeling deep gratefullness for BD/MLC happening.   Without all of it, I very much doubt I would have been able to be there, to support my girl the way I was.

W's been behaving extremely frustrated all morning....  Even the smallest of things kids do seem to irk her.  Based on her words, I kind of get why she's feeling the way she feels... 

But now off shopping some grocieries with S5.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 02:35:12 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2019, 03:04:20 AM »
Quote
"I don't know how I appear outside (I gently said "like a dead, frozen tree that's all clammed up to shell"), but I do have emotions and feelings. I have got so many emotions and feelings that they are bursting out my hands, ears  and body all the time.  And they're not all me or mine. I feel what others feel, all the time, it's drowning me and it is not a good thing... I don't know if I'll ever be able to feel just me.  This will take time, lots of time, possibly forever. I am not superhuman (like some), who know how to control their emotions... "..
Wow... That's some insight, isn't it? This is what I guessed it was happening with my H when he was still home. He never actually said anything to that effect but his actions showed me his emotions were a bit out of control (and he was always a very controlled guy) He was overreacting to things in a way that I didn't see before.. some of them had nothing to do with me. I remember being very confused about it, I now see it like more WTF moments.

I think we all learn a great deal with MLC and the life lessons will serve us well in many life aspects. I wish there was a less painful way to learn but unless we hit a life changing experience like this, we would have probably gone through life without looking inside ourselves to see what we can improve
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H is with OW in her home country  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2019, 04:37:46 AM »
Quote
"I don't know how I appear outside (I gently said "like a dead, frozen tree that's all clammed up to shell"), but I do have emotions and feelings. I have got so many emotions and feelings that they are bursting out my hands, ears  and body all the time.  And they're not all me or mine. I feel what others feel, all the time, it's drowning me and it is not a good thing... I don't know if I'll ever be able to feel just me.  This will take time, lots of time, possibly forever. I am not superhuman (like some), who know how to control their emotions... "..
Wow... That's some insight, isn't it?

Yes, those words are still rummaging through my head...   I knew headphones, gaming, withdrawal etc. was to numb her feelings. But I thought it was her coping mechanisim to deal with resentment and anger against me; never did I imagine she is feeling flooded by much wider scale of emotions that she feels she doesn't own.

With hindsight, I guess it's goes hand in hand with the demon of her dismissive-avoidant attachment style: she likely feels she's losing one's identity and the avoidance/escape is coping mechanism.

As brutal as this sounds, I realize that's her pile of $h!tee and she must deal with it one way or another. Nothing I can do besides detaching, giving space and giving time, and moving forth with my life...   
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Treasur

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2019, 05:01:35 AM »
I honestly think that their heads are full of noise....and that it is so unbearable sometimes that they shut down, try to distract themselves or do a BD of some sort to try to discharge some of it. As you say Alvin, nothing much we can do to help with that but have detached compassion and remember that it is their head and their noise, nothing really to do with us or our marriages.

But yes, your talks with your daughter are a bit of lemonade from lemons.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2019, 05:29:01 AM »
But yes, your talks with your daughter are a bit of lemonade from lemons.

Yes, there's silver lining with every dark cloud... 

As I'm writing this, I'm listening G19 talking to W (we agreed last night she would call to W, as I know it will do good for both)....  Nothing too deep it seems.  About driving lesson. Soccer.  Strained muscle.  Finances. Going to movie. Her job...   But I think this is  also the kind of talk G19 needs.  Something other than wallowing  the depths of relationship stuff...

Kind of fun how I & W are still complementing each other, like different sides of a coin, regardless of the situation.   

Feeling as proud of myself as father can be.
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Thunder

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2019, 06:32:43 AM »
Personally I wouldn't have said any of this to her. 

"I gently told her "what we're doing right now, taking distance and detaching, giving the gift of time and possibly letting go totally, is what we need right now.  You need it to discover yourself, as much as I needed it to discover myself....  I've found haven of peace and love within myself. I'll be there if you need me, still loving you regardless of where life may take us...  And I know, this will take time. Lots and lots time...".

She is not going to understand any of it.

You maybe would have been better off just acknowledging how she felt and told her it must be awful to feel you are not being heard.  I'm really sorry you feel that way.  THAT she would have heard and understood.

Sorry Alvin, but when their in this fogged up brain too much conversation is a waste of time.  Sometimes they just need you to listen and acknowledge what they are saying, but giving no advice, direction or answers.  "I hear what you are saying"  "That must have been hard for you" "I can understand that" type of answers.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2019, 06:19:52 AM »
Just venting out stuff from the heart/head...

Had another night on the phone with my G19.  Her heart (and head) has crashed almost the same way as mine after BD...  We talked nonstop till 4AM. Again sharing joys and sorrows of life, love, dreams and everything;  lots of tears and lots of laughter.... Irony of life in it's fullest that without my W's MLC and my personal growth/heartache I would not have been able to have this talk. ...  It was so hard to keep my own pain within as I recalled/re-experienced all the feelings G19 described oh so well . But that was not my time to share my pain; my job was to listen, support and guide her in walk of life.  And I did it so well and proud as any dad can.

In between the talk (around 2AM) I went for cup of tea and to grab something to bite, W was still awake playing some online game.  Told she could not sleep unless she knew everything was ok.  Just told her "Their breakup is now official. And nothing breaks like heart...".   She then replied with frustrated tone "not so loud"... I (nor G19 on phone) could not help laughing a bit as I was already whispering.  Told her gently "this is going to take a good while more. You can go to sleep, I'll take care of G19 for the night".

Woke up at 8AM into Ws alarm. As I was feeling a very tired, I asked W to come by my side to MBR.   After a while she walked in, sat on the floor, looking very tired... And I started summing up what G19 had told during the night.  She just listened silently, looking very sad and exhausted. No questions, no tears, nothing... So sad. But I guess/hope there's lots going on beneath the frozen surface.

Proud dad over & out.
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2019, 02:16:12 AM »
And spend fourth night in row on the phone with G19.  This time G19 called in early, so I got to bed by 1AM. How thoughtful of her, LOL.   

G19 is healing/processing her heartache at lightspeed  The process that took me months she's doing in hours and days. All she needed was somebody to talk to, somebody to ask the right questions, and bit of support and guidance on the way.  Likely this was the last call on this matter - at least she said  "I feel good now, I'm in peace with this relationship now"... I know she will still do some inner work, house cleaning, in the future. But she will manage it on her own (and if she needs help, I'm just phonecall away).

We had a good laugh how rare/uncommon it is for fathers and daughters to have deep talks like this.  She described how bizarre it had felt when she had realized I was precisely the person that she should call and talk to instead of her mother or godmother or any of her friends... And as evidence of that, W sent her a WhatsUp note asking "did you remember to take the probiotics?" (and she knew we were on the phone talking deep stuff).  It served us few good laughts. Told G19 that her mother loves her no matter what, she just going throug serious time expressing and dealing her feelings right now.

I decided not to tell much about the talk to W. Just said "G19 is all ok now, she's found peace and happiness within", and then we co-existed in silence rest of the night.

With hindsight I think the roles of G19 and mine flipped in the end of our talks, and the student became the teacher, and teacher became the student.  I guess some of it relates to how "against the norm" MLC universe is, and how much I've forgotten what real world breakups are supposed to be alike.   

When G19 told  "I know I need to have space of my own now. I have to learn to live on my own now",  my brains started going "ding-ding-ding".  This is a relationshp pattern. People who fall out of love or are being dumped "want this" after relationship.  My W's escape/isolation from me is reflection of this.  Why am I not wanting it?  Why is not any LBS wanting this by default?

And G19 realization about  "how relationship require a certain kind of selfishness from both... I was lacking it... I need to have break from dating and relationships so I can find it within... "... I have come to acknowledge my W was lacking this (co-dependency or similar) and as such her self-esteem crashed, whereas my W's lack of selfishness allowed me to become overly dominant.  It was clearly a dysfunctional pattern in our relationship/marriage....  Again, another vote why W needs the space/distance. 

She's a bright kid.  Way more advanced than me, LOL.

If MLCs have got somethign wrong within then, that doesn't say we LBS would be any better.  We're all screwed up one way or another  :P

PS.  Oh, and while surfing the web on bed on the morning, I came up with this...  It's a good reminder what "midlife marriages" could be: https://www.aarp.org/home-family/sex-intimacy/info-2017/midlife-marriage-love-it-leave-it-or-reinvent-it.html ....Those in transformation embrace and accept the change, those in crisis fight against it and get lost.  And maybe it is the fight, not just MLC side but also LBS, that makes it a crisis...  Somehow it all comes down to advice heard so often here "learn to detach, learn to let go".
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 02:29:29 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2019, 12:18:54 PM »
Having a rainy summer day, so lots of time on my hands...

If there's anything I've learned from reading the various stories and advice given, it is that the main interest of LBS is to be proactive on protecting oneself. 

As I'm a somewhat total newbie dealing with live-in MLCr, I am now beginning to realize that I should prepare one way or another the next possible event on script: the exit (be it separation or divorce).  Instead of waiting for the event to happen and then react, I want to build some kind of simple checklist (lets call it first aid kid) that would be there IF I ever need.  Something that is not a detailed list (as small stuff changes all the time), but more on the lines of being "main framework" upon which I could fall in and start working out the details  IF the need comes.

What I've come up so far is....


#1. Be Gandhi. Do passive resistance.
Let MLCr know where you stand....  And this I have done already.  My MLCr has heard me say "If you ever want divorce or separation, it will be your and only your decision. I will not do or help with anything that promotes breaking of our family".   It was not a threat. It was a statement.  And when I said, I noticed how my MLCr wrapped up like hedgehog. 

Let MLCr do all the footwork....  Right after BD I was about to do something very stupid. I collected all the papers related to house, living etc and built up a list of what was in her name, what was in my name (apart of few small things, I'm the primary contact /contract person for everything) etc.   And then I was about to transfer everything house related stuff into her name. Talk about serving ones head on silver platter....And few times W talked about wanting bank account of her own (instead of shared one we have used for 20 years), and I was about to start organizing it as well.  Again, I was putting my head on platter...   Now I know bit better not to do anything as such.  If it even remotely promotes separation or divorce or distance, I'm not lifting my finger, but she must do the footwork from start to end.  And like many have told and shared  MLCrs seem VERY lazy with putting things into action....

If nothing more, playing Gandhi can buy me/family more time.   I know that legally speaking I cannot drag D more than 181 days from the moment either of us leaves the paperwork-. But nowhere does it say it has to come easy  ;)



#2. Educate yourself about your wants and means to protect your wants.
 
I understand that trying to predict future events is wasted energy; it's like predicting lottery numbers and always getting them wrong week after week. Instead I try to live in present moment and watch life unfold day by day, and then when required react the right way.  That said, like sir Francis Bacon said, "knowledge is power".   I realize I should be way more aware of my wants from life, and know means and methods that I could protect my assets and everythign I hold dear.
 
I've been thinking this a lot, and I know it comes down to finding answers to: 
- How do I protect my living?
- How do I protect my family?
- How do I protect my finances?
- How do I protect my wellbeing (physical and mental)?
- Get some legal help for above!

When looking at the list above, it all seems so easy. But an another look, I realize I should be aware of what I want. But to be quite honest, I'm not. Or  basically what I want is what I have, and I don't want change.  But...

I don't know if I want to live at our house/home without my partner.

I don't know what kind of parentship I would want in case of separation/divorce.

I don't know what kind of lifestyle besides my current one would I want.

Yes, this situation really caught me pants down  :o

Possibly the only thing I know (likely way better than my MLCr) that real world separation or divorce will not be "I want this and this" kind of talk (as she seems to think), but more on the lines "I want x, you want y", or "I want x, you want x", "I don't want x, you don't want x" - and we would need time, adjustments and tons of mediation in between to get even some kind of working solution. 

I've been trying to split this into basic needs:food/water, clothing, shelter and furnishing,  transportation, healt care, communication/internet....But it really gets no easier.  material topics (like money) are dead easy to work with (just split 50/50 or there-abouts, who cares if somebody gets $500 more or less of stuff they really don't want), but the more personal (especially kids/family) it gets the thougher it becomes.   How do people come up with decisions? Which takes me to next rule...


#3. Let it go - treating it as business.
 
I kind of accept that there's no "we" righ now, possibly never will be again (though I'm not giving up on hope - just no expectations).  I know if time comes, I should be strong and fully detached. Keeping it as  just business, nothing personal. My partner no longer cares for my emotions/feelings.  And I should learn to be equally selfish if required (as hideous as it sounds)... It is something I must work with myself.   

I've been thinking long and hard what my number one priority in life is, and without a doubt it comes to kids... And I know it's the same for her..   Of course we can't separate/divorce and both have the kids full time unless chopping them to pieces (bad joke, but bit of humour helps).  AndI really do not want to start a bloody & harmful war over them... Right after BD I did something very foolish: I told my W  that she could keep the kids, as I knew being away from them would kill her (oh boy, I was wearing rosy goggless) and vice versa.  About month (and few heartbreaks and dagger stings) later I told her "you know, I've changed my mind. I'm going for 50/50 with kids if divorce comes, and I'm not settling for less" (needless to say, she was not pleased with my change of heart)... .  Now I am slowly but surely beginning to acknowledge that what I REALLY WANT is even more damaging to her: I want all (making me full-time single parent), or I want 50/50 on my terms (taking kids to another state, possibly even another country for periods of 1-6 months - biweekly changes or similar would be simply no-no because of distances/costs and how it would affect their school), or I want nothing (making her full-time single parent). 
 
Relating to above, I've been thinking a lot of our home and way we live (rural life)...  We both love it, it was her dream come true and I fell in love with it too. But the harsh reality is that neither of us can afford or make it alone.  Or maybe "could" but it would be one hell of a struggle... If I had the kids 100% on my own, then I could definitely give it a try.  But for anything else - nah... It's not the walls that make home "home", it's the people within...  There was a time when I would have simply given her the house, no questions asked. But now, I know I would push for quick sale and 50/50 split of the funds. I know losing the house would kill her, but it would provide me better ground to start life anew if required.

I've been a SMB-owner for 20+ years. Not by choice you could say, but because we live on rural area and there's no other options to get jobs on my line of business.  It's never been easy life, but it has provided a living and paid all the bills.  All these years the my drive to keep up with it all has been my love/passion for her.  But ever since BD I've simply lost some of the spark with it all - I can still easily do it, but it's no longer fun as it used to be....    I've been browsing some open jobs in bigger cities or abroad, and also spoken with few LinkedIn recruiters, and I could somewhat easily apply for senior positions with salary north of 100k/year if moving out.  Money does not bring happiness, but it could enable few nice things for myself and kids on later age...   But another part of me simply would like to few years of sabbatical (simply because life has got new priorities now).   Especially if the house gets sold, I should be all ok for number of years if living on lease.   I could spend that time entirely focusing on kids/family,  or I could travel the world, or just enjoy the silence.

Still standing as firmly as before, but thinking out loud (possibly daydreaming) what life could be alike if she some day decides to break the final ties....    If nothing more, the consequences of the above list just confirm the maddness divorce/separation always comes with.  Nobody wins, everyone suffers.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 12:26:36 PM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Thunder

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2019, 02:45:40 PM »
A lot of thinking going on there, Alvin...but that's ok.  There are some things we need to think about.
A lot to consider.

We have no idea how this will all play out.  It's better we have some plans in place so we are not caught with our pants down and unprepared.

I did research and made tentative plans, in case.  The one thing I refused to do was make this easy for him.
If he wanted a divorce he was going to do all the work.  I did not provide him with even one piece of paper he needed.  "Oh no sorry, I have no idea were that would be."  Even though I knew exactly where it was.
 ;D
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2019, 01:25:16 AM »
I did research and made tentative plans, in case.  The one thing I refused to do was make this easy for him.
If he wanted a divorce he was going to do all the work.  I did not provide him with even one piece of paper he needed.  "Oh no sorry, I have no idea were that would be."  Even though I knew exactly where it was.
 ;D

My line of thinking as well....  And though part of me dislikes the thought of "sneaking behind her back", I'm not doing anything to hurt her.   From my point of view it's precisely the opposite. It's love, though love  ;)

I've been thinking further about the finances...

So far I've been the main supporter of the family as she's taken care of the kids (stay-at-home mom for 15 years in row), and few years back she went back to school.  She's never worked full time anywhere, and even as is remains unemployed apart of some random one-day jobs once or twice a month. I know she's switching plans between going back to school, or finding a job, or starting a business - but nothing I would call "driven" (typical MLCr difficulty of making a decision and sticking with I think).  And I got nothing but positive feelings on the past or current.  But... 

Apart the year I got chronically ill, this year has been the only time in my life I've been this much at home, and this is the first time in my life when I've thrown myself into "stay-at-home dad" role for more than few weeks.  It has been my way of surviving BD, my way of making sure my heads filled with good memories of family and kids if the worst comes...  And I gotta to say I love it.  I love being with kids, seeing them come and go, I love being able to take care of them. Cooking, cleaning, building the house and making it home - it's always been part of me. Now I get to do it even more than before. Financially speaking it sucks.  But the time and memories, they're worthless.... And I gave her 15+ years of that.  That was a gift of love.

But it has made me thinking... Maybe I should start pushing her around. Make her take responsibility of what happens at home and with finances. The lifestyle she's accustomed and is living is a "relationship benefit".   But In her own words, there's "no relationship" between us.  No hugs, no kissess, no intimacy, no attempt to bring us closer, not even real talks.... She's like a teenager who gets everything served and ready. And I'm enabling it.... Maybe I should start showing her the utility bills and saying "please get a job" so you can pay your part of this".   Maybe I should start demanding "please make some dinner and clean the house while I'm out playing with the kids/making work/etc"   (or "you go out with the kids/make work/etc, and I prepare dinner and clean up the house")...   I know this is very dangerous line of thinking as it is "pushing around" and demanding, and might make her want to fly out.   Personally I don't believe in it, as IMHO love does not expect a thing (and I would be happy even with current way of things)... But I also acknowledge there's no love on her part.  Maybe I should just give her a taste of own medicine.  Allow her to take responsibility, allow her to "grow up".

I've been thinking a lot about the money in the bank... It was supposed to be there when/if bad day comes.  Well, this is the "bad day"; for me anyway.  Keeping that money in the bank does not keep me happy anymore.  Legally speaking all money is  pretty straightforward: right now everything (even individual money/debt) is fully shared, and 50/50 split if divorce comes.   That money exists only because of the hard work I've done   Yes, it's been a gift to "us" - but there is no more "us" in her mind..  So I think I'll slowly but surely start using it on things on me.  Not behind her back, but if she does not get where the money is coming from, I'm not saying it aloud neither.  The benefit (and risk) of shared assets is two-way street.

I know not to spend money on anything that would be "splittable" (as it would be 50/50 in case of divorce)... But hey, I could buy myself a pair of new glassess instead of wearing the 10 year old goggless I've been using (just tried to save some money)...    And I've already bought myself some new clothes (thanks to LBS diet), but I could really need some more...   And I've spend some money on Amazon Kindle books...  And maybe I'll go concert or more, and take kids along.

One of those things I've already decided (and which my G19 is aware), is that I'm getting myself a drivers licence next fall. So far I've been fully dependant on W driving me somewhere, public transport, or cabs to take me where ever I've wanted to be.   But it has to end.  If D comes, I need to be able to move around way more freely.  Not just for myself but for the kids/family as well... I dislike cars, I dislike being in car and/or driving. But it's just something I gotta swallow up. 

In the end the money on the bank does not make my current (or future) life any better..  If D comes, there's always the house/home that can (and will) be sold.  And there's always the W's retirement plan, which should provide both us a nice little nest egg... And if other financial difficulties come before that.... Well, there's always the house/home that can be sold....  Her MLC has put me in the tough spot, and I guess I (and she) has to learn that it is not my job to keep her best interests protected.  I can do it only for myself and for the kids.

Still standing strong, but no more walking on eggshells.It really empowers to have some kind of "framework" to fall upon instead of uncertainty. I'm starting to feel like that if the worst comes, she has no idea what hit her.  I will pity the lifestyle we all (me,her, kids) would loose in that process, but life will go on regardless.

« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 01:32:03 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2019, 01:11:52 PM »
Went for walk today, and asked if anybody wants to join.  W wanted - talk about surprise! It's been quite awhile since we've actually done anything together.  At first we didn't talk much, then I talked about the upcoming trip and plans I had with the kids, and then she asked about G19 (who phoned earlier).  She was curious what's happening, why wasn't I sharing anymore.. I just gave a quick summary what was the latest news (more breakup/relationship talk), and then I told the reason I'm not sharing all those talks because there is very similar pattern than with our situation  (pursuer-avoider/distancer) and I might easily start talking about us too.  She quite immediately froze and said just "no talking about us", and started walking onwards faster.   Talk about touchy topic, but at least she knows (better than me) R talks are not good now.

Bit later we passed a nice looking spruce, and I told that would make a great Christmas tree.  She looked at it and said "bit wide, it doesn't fit on our living room".  Into which I replied "well, not really nothing fits if you are still sleeping there", which caused her to say "I guess I'll have to move into couch"....  Wow, she sees herself sleeping on living room couch 6 months from now. That is one "grim" vision of future;any sane person would dream of working for anything to change status quo.   

Big day tomorrow as me & kids are heading out to annual summer vacation.  All the bags are packed up, tickets are bought etc.  And W will be left in complete privacy for 2-3 weeks... Not sure, and not even much interested, what she'll do when we're gone. Hopefully she will water the plants. I did ask if she wants WhatsApp updates and photo's while we're away or would she prever more silence, and she said "carry on as usual. I can always block you out temporarily if you are flooding me too much".

At home I asked W if she wants to read or browse any of the R books I've bought from Amazon this year while we're away.   I was bit surprised when she said "I guess I'll have to start improving myself somewhere, so why not"... So I gave her device access to my Kindle library.   Time will tell if she genuinely reads anything (I doubt), but who knows.  As I have zero expectations I can be only positively surprised...

Just hoping, maybe even expecting, we'll have a blast holiday trip with kids. Last years tour ended with ambulance ride and night at hospital as one of the girls hurt her neck during carousel ride. Hope it will be bit more casual this year, LOL.
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2019, 03:58:45 PM »
Hello,

Yes, the assets and the debts will be split 50/50 if you divorce. I would suggest her getting a job because if she does split, she will have to get one anyway. Avoid her starting a business as that can easily go down the drain. Does she have a degree already? If she does, time to put it to use. Now, her going along with the plan is another story.

Do you have family that can keep cash for you? Withdraw money and then have them hold the cash. If asked where it went- Indian Casino. You were trying to win a fortune to make her happy. Remember though, she has the same access and can do the same to you.

Enjoy your vacation and stay away from a hospital this time. Why visit one there, you've got one at home. It's like going to Pizza Hut. Really?


Fist bump,

Ready

"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #68 on: July 01, 2019, 12:08:09 AM »
I would suggest her getting a job because if she does split, she will have to get one anyway. Avoid her starting a business as that can easily go down the drain. Does she have a degree already? If she does, time to put it to use. Now, her going along with the plan is another story.

My thoughts excactly...   As I see, the bottom line (as long as we're legally married) is that if I do well, she does well. If she does well, I do well. And the more shared wealth there is, the better the position both of as are for the future regardless of what happens.  So her getting a job would be definitely the best move.

I'm no longer actively pushing her into any direction, just supporting the options I would prefer ("oh, that job you heard sounds like lots of fun" etc). What I've read co-operation/supporting goes way further than resistance ;)

Do you have family that can keep cash for you? Withdraw money and then have them hold the cash

As far as I understand, this would be illegal (hiding shared assets).  As such I prefer to put money on things that are unsplittable, but which I would still have to buy in "near future" (say next 5 years).  Drivers licence, new glassess, some new clothes,...I've also paid some bigger personal bill's that were due next year.  So I'm slowly but actively using the money on me (and kids). 

I've done some random $100 withdrawals here and there, and given them to my family to keep Nothing too significant to call it unusual (I could have easily spent the money on buying something for myself). Just enough to give me few months of "breathing room" if worst comes.

My goal is not to make her life utterly miserable if worst comes. In the end she spend a long time being stay-at-mom, out of love towards me & kids, and she definitely deserves her part of the funds. I'm just balancing the act a bit...   And if she some day should crawl back of out MLC and decide this is the life she still wants, then all of it would be back on "shared" use.


Remember though, she has the same access and can do the same to you.

I fully acknowledge this, and as such I've got full realtime view to anything what happens with the accounts.

Additionally I've got some of the money locked out to accounts into which she's got no immediate access (but which are still shared property if she files for divorce).

So all in all I think I'm in pretty good position. 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 12:10:10 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline akjomsviking

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #69 on: July 01, 2019, 02:03:18 PM »
But it has made me thinking... Maybe I should start pushing her around. Make her take responsibility of what happens at home and with finances. The lifestyle she's accustomed and is living is a "relationship benefit".   But In her own words, there's "no relationship" between us.  No hugs, no kissess, no intimacy, no attempt to bring us closer, not even real talks.... She's like a teenager who gets everything served and ready. And I'm enabling it....


This is up to you of course but in my personal experience that kind of stuff is a waste of time.  The hardest lesson for me to learn when going through my ex's MLC is that we literally cannot affect anything they do.  Short of physically forcing them to do something, all you can do is insulate yourself from their madness and try to get your own life sorted.  Mine started grad school, then quit, then quit her job, then moved to another state, then moved back.  Worked full-time, then part-time.  Through all of it she had her own account and paid next to nothing to maintain the home other than grocery shopping sometimes.  In a normal relationship you can point these kinds of disparities out and suggest they pitch in a bit more, but (as I'm sure you've noticed) you are not in a normal relationship anymore.  Just think of her as a long-term house guest who is family and so can't be expected to really pitch in too much. 
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2019, 12:39:35 PM »
.... but (as I'm sure you've noticed) you are not in a normal relationship anymore.

Granted.... The further this goes on, the more this is beginning to feel some eerie episode of Twilight Zone / Outer Limits.

Possibly latest example of this relates to my vacation with kids...  I got flirted... Not sure if it's been happening all these years and I'm only now beginning to see things like these.  Not sure if something's changed within me to extend it's becoming visible to outsiders. Not sure if it's somethign else...  But I got flirted!!! And it did feel good.  Confusing and shamefull, but still good. Somebody (IMHO cute) showed a pinch of attraction/interest towards me...  After these hideous months it felt like breathe of fresh air, something my self-esteem truly needed.

I'm very clearly beginning to understand why divorce rates are  generally speaking so high.  It's not just the MLCs than can do "bad decisions", same goes with their LBS if they fail to keep mindfull mindset and let their feelings/emotions push them onwards.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 12:42:33 PM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #71 on: July 04, 2019, 01:05:36 PM »
Another few days gone on "vacation from W".

Lots of fun with kids.  S5 with his child-like observations & behaviour has been endless source of fun.  G12 and G14 are behaving precisely the way sisters of that are age are supposed to (loving/killing each other).   G19 received acknowledgement of being accepted to school and will start her 4 year studies next autumn... We've been sightseeing,  shopping around, swimming,  walking around etc. spending time together.  In addition of trying to be the "super dad of the year" I've also tried to include some "me alone" time with walks, jogging and reading this forum (LOL).
 
Don't ask me why, but I had to heat 3 balls of "carrot cake" ice cream today.  The old me would have loved it, but now I struggled with it all.  It was just too much and I felt both sick and fatigue afterwards.  I guess I'm still having some level of LBS diet, though I'm now eating way more normally than few months back.

Sadly seeing my family has not been so fun as I hoped.  Or it's been nice meeting and seeing each other, but I guess these months have changed me way more deeply than I believed.  I've known for decades that my FOO dynamics are pretty dysfunctional, but now all of it is sticking out like sore thumb. And the white elephant in middle of it all is status of my relationship -  there's zero talk of W unless I or kids start the topic...  But I'm taking this as a lesson: observe and learn, and then work out my own behaviour.  Oh how this MLC/LBS thing just keeps on giving.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 01:11:02 PM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Thunder

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #72 on: July 05, 2019, 07:01:20 AM »
I'm glad you enjoyed your time with the kids.  It's always nice to get away from the MLCer for awhile.   :)

Oh and I wanted to add.  I remember the first time some guy flirted with me, I had to turn around thinking he must be talking to someone else.  Ha ha

But yes, I did my ego good.  Plus he was quite a bit younger than me and good looking.   ;D
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 07:04:24 AM by Thunder »
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #73 on: July 10, 2019, 09:40:19 AM »
It's somewhat amazing how quickly a week has passed. Time is definitely taking back it's original speed, and it is feeling confusing. Where did those long crawling days and nights go (and will they return)?

I'm still on vacation trip with kids. Likely will continue for another week, so W will get roughly 3 week break from me and kids ( and vice versa). Not much communication with W all this time, just me  sending daily good morning+night WhatsUp messages with images of kids (to which she shortly replies), and rest happens through joined family groups where I post daily photos and updates for all family members to see. We've had only one talk all this time, and I kept it very short and strictly business  (in past I phoned her at least daily and even wrote love letters when away longer periods). She did sound bit amazed when after few minutes I simply said 'thats all, take care, bye'.... She has iniated zero talks or messages on anything my way, so I think I'll experiment next week on  zero contact to see if she does anything.  I have no expectations.

The white elephant in the room has moved a bit. My father told how there are married couples living separately at his retirement center. I guess he's trying to hint that if life ever advances to such situation that me and W cannot live together, then physical separation would be preferred option over divorce.

I took advantage of city life, dumped kids to my brother for one evening and went to local marital support group meeting. It was very unlike anything I imagined or have seen. Basically a bunch of guys and gals at various stages of marital issues and divorce hanging out over coffee/tea and networking openly with each other. I ended up spending over four hours with divorced female LBS of same age.  Besides my W I've never spoken so openly and deeply of my life and lessons learned, and we had blast of a night getting to know each others life. There was definitely chemistry (but no physical attraction) on both sides, but both of us also acknowledged  timing/situation was all wrong for taking things any further. But I fear I will always cherish her final words "you are one amazingly perfect man".  They reminded of a time I told my W she would be an utter fool to push me to through hell to become even better man than I am and then let some other woman ripe the results. I guess that is the edge I am standing.

I have spent few nights with broken sleep as I've been thinking could I break my family if I met somebody else. For now the answer is resounding no. But I would be lying if I did not admit I was very tempted to ask this gal's email/phone number just in case.

It's amazing how I am in very different spot than I ever would have thought, not to say 4+ months back. But I guess this is part of life's journey, and it is shaping up my thoughts and me in new and unexpected  ways.

Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2019, 07:04:23 AM »
It's been rainy and cold today, but I still headed out for a long walk. Not so much for fun, but simply because I felt the need to have some quiet alone time. For some reason I decided to play through songs which have helped me through various stages of this LBS crisis. Needless to say it became rather teary walk as I listened and re-lived/experienced through all the big emotions I've gone through in these 19 weeks. And then when I realized how much I have actually progressed in such a short time (that at one point felt like eternity), I cried some more.   

These are all songs I've listened likely hundreds of times.. Maybe these will help another LBS, maybe it just gives a reflection of the person I am..  Here's "the soundtrack of my LBS" so far.

Nightwish - Ghost love score (this was how I experienced her, me, us. and the BD)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYjIlHWBAVo

Mark Ronson ft Miley Cyrus: Nothing breaks like a heart  (I played this on repeat for weeks, trying to prove my love, trying to fix what was not mine to fix. Letting my heart break and fall apart time and again  )
https://youtu.be/qtwot6j83V8

Jewel - Foolish Games (beginning to understand she really no more cares how I feel; and breaking the chains from my heart)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNoouLa7uxA

Madonna: Nothing really matters (admitting my own part in crisis, and owning consequences of my actions)
https://youtu.be/cAVx9RKaLPU

Madonna: Frozen (acknowledging that I cannot change what she has become; it is her job )
https://youtu.be/XS088Opj9o0

Scooter: Devil Drums  (possibly my favorite song to run - it still feels like standing in gates of hell, listening war drums, and then just running in for battle. In the beginning it was all about letting anxiety/anger out, now it's just got the right rhytm for running)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isoK1AmTAek
 
Anastacia: Left outside alone (for that tiny bit of resentment I have - I so much want all of it out, because I believe in forgiveness and compassion)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzR5jM9UeJA 

Madonna: Power of goodbye (letting go, detaching)
https://youtu.be/NHydngA5C4E

Katie Perry: Fireworks (the brave new me emerging)
https://youtu.be/QGJuMBdaqIw

To be honest, I feel both lost and found.

This definitely is not the abyss I spent the initial months after BD.

And this surely no longer  feels like being stuck in limbo.  I am owning my life back from this behemoth.   I am making decisions, and carrying (and even enjoying) the consequences. 

But this does not feel like my (old) life neither... So where I'm at?
 
Not even sure if I want to know. It did take me a long time to understand why longtimers here keep on repeating "life will take both of you where you need to be". I am getting to appreciate and understand the meaning of life unravelling instead of me trying to fix or predict it.  That's yet another valuable life lesson learned.  This MLC/LBS thingie just keeps on giving...
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 07:22:05 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline In the valley

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #75 on: July 11, 2019, 03:09:31 PM »
Just noticed your story and wanted to follow along.  I found it easy to lose weight in the beginning because I simply couldn't eat.  I've put a few lbs back recently that I need to take off.  Anyway good for you! Keeping healthy habits will really help you deal with the intense stress.
M39, W38, D16, S14, S13 at BD. 20yr together married 18
Said I love you every night before bed good physical R
8/31/17 filed for D, left papers at house for me to find. Didn't come home or answer phone.
Moved to her parents house 2 doors down.
9/15/17 discover OM and PA she had the night of BD.
OM 12yr older unemployed in NY city met online leaving to marry him.  Said "I've done things for others my whole life time for me to do something for me", "I deserve to do what makes me happy!"
10/31/2017 left for good.
D final 12/21/2017
Returned once 3/28/18 to visit family.
Convinced D to leave and live with her 6/4/2018
Boys both live with me don't talk to mom.

Offline Silver

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #76 on: July 11, 2019, 10:21:26 PM »

To be honest, I feel both lost and found.

This definitely is not the abyss I spent the initial months after BD.

And this surely no longer  feels like being stuck in limbo.  I am owning my life back from this behemoth.   I am making decisions, and carrying (and even enjoying) the consequences. 

But this does not feel like my (old) life neither... So where I'm at?
 
Not even sure if I want to know. It did take me a long time to understand why longtimers here keep on repeating "life will take both of you where you need to be". I am getting to appreciate and understand the meaning of life unravelling instead of me trying to fix or predict it.  That's yet another valuable life lesson learned.  This MLC/LBS thingie just keeps on giving...

Lost because your old life has ended, against your will and found because you started your own process which aims at healing and recovering and gives you the best change in your life to grow and become the person you want to be. Something like that probably, sounds familiar and imho that's exactly where you should be at this moment. Take all the time you need, note every good aspect in this, because there are a lot, despite of all the pain. Accepting what has happened (don't mean that you should accept what she has done but that it happened) frees much energy to your own process. Be aware that getting involved now in new relationship may not be any good for your healing. I did that with XW, we both were divorced from our previous marriages just couple of months ago and we rushed to new R with each other, moved together very soon etc. It's very easy to see now hindsight how bad it was to both of us individually and how much burden it caused to our relationship at the beginning, even though that R lasted 12 years and gave us 2 wonderful kids etc.

My opinion is, do your job with yourself first, you will thank yourself later for that.



« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 10:23:37 PM by Silver »
"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #77 on: July 12, 2019, 01:06:42 AM »
Just noticed your story and wanted to follow along.  I found it easy to lose weight in the beginning because I simply couldn't eat.  I've put a few lbs back recently that I need to take off.  Anyway good for you! Keeping healthy habits will really help you deal with the intense stress.

For better or worse my appetite seems to be coming back (or maybe it's just because of this vacation). But it's different. For example I used to love chocolate, now zero desire. I acknowledge it will take some struggle to keep weight loss going, but compared to MLC/LBS it should be a walk in the park  ;D


Lost because your old life has ended, against your will and found because you started your own process which aims at healing and recovering and gives you the best change in your life to grow and become the person you want to be. Something like that probably, sounds familiar and imho that's exactly where you should be at this moment. Take all the time you need, note every good aspect in this, because there are a lot, despite of all the pain. Accepting what has happened (don't mean that you should accept what she has done but that it happened) frees much energy to your own process. Be aware that getting involved now in new relationship may not be any good for your healing. I did that with XW, we both were divorced from our previous marriages just couple of months ago and we rushed to new R with each other, moved together very soon etc. It's very easy to see now hindsight how bad it was to both of us individually and how much burden it caused to our relationship at the beginning, even though that R lasted 12 years and gave us 2 wonderful kids etc.

My opinion is, do your job with yourself first, you will thank yourself later for that.


So this is another kind of waiting room (with all sorts of me stuff to play with) or first baby steps of brave new life....maybe I should call this my midlife transition. Somehow naming things gives great power in making them less abstract and easier to handle.

Right now kids, especially S5, are my rock in middle of this insanity. Every time S5 goes explaining some family related stuff with childlike enthusiasm, I know this family is not to be broken (at least by me). Some things in life are worthy of very great personal sacrifices. What's my own happiness compared to his? Absolutely nothing IMHO.

Speaking of S5, yesterday he caused the white elephant to move again (giving me something to chuckle internally)... S5 was outdoors playing and making some new friends. Then my brother started talking "are those all girls around him? At that age it is still so easy to make new friendships with..."  And then he switched topic on the fly. But I know he was going to say "opposite sex/girls".... For some reason that part of future worries me the least.
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #78 on: July 13, 2019, 02:15:45 PM »
Another curious day behind...

I've been feeling empowered whole day. I'm talking the kind of stuff that makes one feel physically taller, puts head high and flirty "winner" smile on face. Apparently it shows outside, as I received some smiles back when shopping some groceries, LOL. Bizarre how small acts of random kindness (like smiles) from total strangers can feel so good. Anyway, this can be filed under "exceptionally happy day".

I think, feel, something new and big is coming out (again) of me. Likely my recent looking  backs relate to this one way or another. But tbh, I have no clues what's brewing.

I've been pondering whether or not to talk the situation in more detail with my W's parents once we get back home. I know /fear my W has not talked to them at all (unless in these weeks,but I find it unlikely). And I know it's really not my territory to do (it's fixing all right)...but part of me thinks they should know more to be there for their grandkids when/if required.  But how much to tell? In the end I don't want them itoo deep nto this web too...
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #79 on: July 15, 2019, 06:13:17 AM »
Possibly interesting, possibly not, but at least a proof W is still observing me/my life on some level.

We were WhatsUpping messages on clothes to buy for the kids, and I wrote how hard it is for me to disappoint kids with limits I keep up just for her sake (to have somewhat uniform boundaries on parenting), and W replied me with " know the rules well, so you can break them effectively, a bit of Dalai Lama advice for you. It applies here as well."

And my initial response to her was laughing emoji. She knows ever since BD I've been very much into Buddhism (and as such I know this is yet another quote falsely attributed to Dalai Lama).

Later I decided to follow the advice given, and broke the no R talks rule (I know, I know....). So I sent her a WhatsUp message stating:

"Seriously speaking that quote is one thing I've tried to learn in these months...But we can discuss this some day in more detail if you ever again become interested or willing to speak to me again. Untill then I respect your boundaries of not wanting R /deep talks with me and not allowing me into your life. Both your decisions, and only you can undo them. I am now focusing on me and live my life as if you are not taking me back...you know where to find me if you want to talk some day. Regardless of what happens in future, I hope I will never have to disappoint or hurt you (intentionally or not).  Live long & prosper."

Tough love....whether or not she likes, I am changing  the game and rules. What's the worst she can do? Divorce me? The old relationship died at BD, and there's zero chance of new one  unless things become uncomfortable enough for her to look inwards (and it will likely take damn more than this message).. Not my thing to save her, but not my thing to enable current escape of reality neither.
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Thunder

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2019, 07:57:22 AM »
Alvin, of course the decision is yours but that really was a relationship talk (the msg).  So it makes them feel pressured, and you are telling her you are still waiting around.  Sorry that's just how I took it...from a MLCer's view.

You may want to just try to keep you msg about the kids or finances.  Nothing personal.
Just my opinion.

Big Hug
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2019, 11:29:54 AM »
Thunder -I know it was R talk.  And even more so, it was an open invitation to have some more IF she ever feels ready. But I acknowledge she MUST be the one calling the shots (if any), and now I've said it aloud to her too. I'm not having expectations.

It was also an announcement that I'm done holding my life as hostage of (positive) expectations or walking on eggshelves. Love never dies, I hope for best, but I'm starting to live like she's not coming back. And eventually that too will bite her as it will mean more one-sided decision-making on my part, and it will not benefit her.

Whether or not she feels this creates anxiety/pressure only time will tell. Not really my problem, as the worst she can do is escape further or file for D; on best scenario she might own the consequences. And none of these options no longer frighten me the same way they did few months back. I know it would be though, but I would pull through (whereas she would be hit way harder); and it would not necessarily be the end. One day at a time, living in present moment.

Whether or not she realizes that I have already detached greatly and will continue to detach more, again time will tell. If her MLC/anxiety follows classic distancer-pursuer pattern, she might pull back when she feels I'm going away. Or not. Again, not really my worry right now. All I can do is live one day at a time, living in present moment, watching things unfolding.


I've been following the topic of divorce vs standing with small kids with great interest. There are some good insights and views.  I think both standing still/enabling and divorce are equally harmfull when dealing with live-in wallower, but of course that is only my view based on my family/conditions. You are teaching that approving unhealthy relationships patterns (such as stonewalling and gaslighting and uncertainty, or giving up) is ok for relationships - and that is not the model I want to pass on. Even the unconditional love I show is bit so-and-so.... I know MLC is not about reason  or comparable to any sane situation which is why allow a lot of lease. But eventually boundaries must be created to prevent madness spreading, and maybe that is what is coming out of me now.

Just thinking out loud...

« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 11:49:53 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Father5

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #82 on: July 15, 2019, 11:47:39 AM »
HI Alvin,

    You seem to be getting angry IMO. That is okay, maybe even good as long as you use it to your advantage. You have to work through that anger and resentment to get to a place of healing. It is a step in the process, keep it up my friend !
Together 12 yrs Married 5
5 kids 3- Step (21) (20) (18) Two together ( 8 ) (9)
BD1 March 2018 - I wish I could give you more of what you need
BD2 Aug 2018 - I want a divorce sent by text ILWYBNILWY

O/M Discovered Nov-18

Offline Thunder

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #83 on: July 15, 2019, 12:10:23 PM »
Ok well have no expectations and just see what she does.   :)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #84 on: July 15, 2019, 12:26:53 PM »
 Hi Father5,

Sadly it's neither anger or resentment. I've dealt those very early on with compassion and forgiveness.

 I'm just letting go of all the protective shields (call it enabling, fixing, relationship benefits, whatever)  I have been keeping up unilaterally all these years . For me putting these shields down will be an act of love (for me as well as for her) same way as letting her go if she so desires. Just like kids/teens need to own consequences of their actions to grow up, I think it's good for her to see what our marriage concretely stood for.  Sure she is free to dislike the changes but it is only discomfort that makes people seek for change and growth. Basically the same process that shapes us LBS as survivors.
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #85 on: July 16, 2019, 09:43:36 PM »
My oh my, we're back home few days early. W was very eager to organize return ride for us from station to home, and kids too started to seem bored (missing their friends). So why not...

Homecoming was likely scrip to the t.

My heart was filled with joy on seeing her, but I kept my expectation at nill and was duly served, lol. He was kissing and hugging kids like never before, zilch attention for me. Not even providing a helping hand with luggage (that was too many).

The MLCr reality started to settle in as I told we'd like to go for burger. She was disappointed as she had prepared some food (from the can) for us home.  As S5 was very eager for burger and we all were starving, we called for burgers first and food later.  And there the "adoring mother" mask fell off first time. S5 ordered just fries and juice, took few bites and then said 'I'll go play now' (after all we had been travelling quite many hours and he was dying to get some physical action). She went immediately into some kind of opposite mode with "no play for you young mister before you eat all the fries. You wanted us here, and you'll eat all your fries".  Needless to say no winners in the clash between S5 and W - no fries were eaten, no plays played. Not the kind of fun 'one last ride of vacation' I had hoped, but such is life.

Getting inside/back home was somewhat disappointing. She's always been somewhat poor cleaner so I was dreading house would look chaotic, but it was even worse, like stepping into teenagers pit.  What kind of adult lives home alone 2+ weeks and makes the existing mess even worse? Anyway I took few photos of it just as reminder/proof and started organising a bit.... At least she had put loads of laundry through the washer, lol.

Otherwise a very cold and formal night. Not much talk.

She was happy for saving 20$ by fixing glasses on her own while we were away. Good thing she did not know I'd spent way more to have fun time with kids.

She did "inform" (a word she uses often these days to talk the "official business") that her parents are going to their annual holiday, and she's looking after their house next week. When I suggested she'd move in there for additional vacation week, she was like " are you crazy? I just got my kids back and you ask if I want to separate again".... Funny how she does not see the risk of losing (or being all tied up) kids for extended periods in case either of us files separation/divorce. Nor did she initiate any contact ( apart of offer to pick us) while our vacation...

I've been reviewing MBR with new eyes. Since she no longer sleeps in the same bed/room, it will be where I physically start reclaiming my life and space tomorrow . The baby bed must go  out in the attick or for sale; that dream of mine is now buried. Our kingsize double bed - I think I'll start woodworking some kind of smaller bed framework just for myself. And her clothes that are piles all over the MBR - they just have to go.... Interestingly or not, she did sleep on bed while we were out. But all her belongings were cleared up when I went for sleep. So sleeping on the floor is not as cozy as bed regardless of her saying otherwise earlier, lol.

S5 organized early wake-up to her (thats what you get from sleeping on living room floor, lol). First wakeup at 4Am, another at 7am when S5 woke up again and rushed around the house loudly calling "I need a towel so I can organize a morning picnic at the yard".LOL... And I know she was up till 2 Am... I'm no longer about to "enable" her whacko sleep rhytm by changing our life or keeping it silent in the mornings. Tough love again.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 10:43:10 PM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #86 on: July 17, 2019, 09:01:06 AM »
I don't recall reading MLCrs providing much cause for laughter, but here comes some...

I was in beach with S5, and stumbled with friend of W. We ended up talking while watching the boys play together. She was having summer flu (similar to my W)... When we got back home, I passed the regards and told her friends having the same disease. W's response... General insanity?  :o ;D :P

And she wasn't even joking when she said it :o

That said, I know her friends marriage had rough patch (possibly MLT) few years back.  AFAIK all is well with them now. At least I hope so...
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online One day at a time

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #87 on: July 17, 2019, 09:52:52 AM »
When you are detached enough, it can be VERY funny to watch/hear them. It takes us all a good while to get there though..

Quote
General insanity?
;D ;D ;D She said it!
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H is with OW in her home country  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #88 on: July 17, 2019, 10:53:29 AM »
When you are detached enough, it can be VERY funny to watch/hear them. It takes us all a good while to get there though..

Dang, maybe I'm doing something wrong as I get almost daily chuckless from watching her stuff.

Just watched W turn into control freak with S5, and S5 escaping the thingie with "uh oh uh, I gotta rest for a while", and then throwing himself to her mattress (that has been all day on living room floor) and then turning into tortoise with it. I eventually had to ask her "are you not  finding S5 behaviour even remotely funny?" After several twisting facial expressions she just said "no, not at all" with very serious face.  ;D

And G12 was earlier watching telly, and when W told to her to shut it down, G12 just told "no, this will end in few minutes".  I swear I saw steam rising on W's head  :o

It is kind of odd how only few months back her ranting to kids pushed my buttons. Now I'm not even sure for whom I should feel compassionate. The kids are not afraid of her reaction, and without my backing W is somewhat teethless.

So sad that a person who once so much enjoyed family life has lost access to some of the joys of it.
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline sjohns63

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #89 on: July 17, 2019, 11:13:32 AM »
Hello there Alvin. Sorry to get off topic, but I just had to ask. Is your name a reference to the Orson Scott Card book series?

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #90 on: July 17, 2019, 11:25:55 AM »

Hello there Alvin. Sorry to get off topic, but I just had to ask. Is your name a reference to the Orson Scott Card book series?

Yep ;)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 11:27:19 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline sjohns63

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #91 on: July 17, 2019, 11:53:58 AM »
Awesome! I love that series.

In other news, just caught up on your thread. I'm sorry to hear all you are going through. These MLCers really put us LBSers through the ringer.

Hope your day is well today...

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #92 on: July 17, 2019, 12:33:37 PM »
Yep. Alvin's adventures make a great read. And when speaking of OSC, one naturally has to bring up Ender series. Another amazing storyline there...


Hope your day is well today...

I'm tempted to say she's having the worse end right now. She just seems unhappy most of the time, whereas I'm on the opposite end of emotional spectrum. But like all relationships,this is dance (though macabre one) and roles will cycle.

We just wrapped up a talk on kids (I expressed my compassion on her frustration using EAR formuls), and after a silence she went  "I'm not frustrated with kids.... I don't know how to talk to you anymore. You always interpret what I say one way or another. I mean what I say, 100% literally, always..This new more relaxed you (that is post BD me) is so confusing, it is so carefree, I don't yet know how to deal or live with it . "... And then after some silence she started sharing some funny newslines with me...  I took her complaint as valid suggestion to improve myself, but otherwise zero reaction on me.

Btw.sjohns63, just read your story. Any change in your life?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 01:02:13 PM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #93 on: July 18, 2019, 04:29:52 AM »
Just thinking my life...maybe this is yin and yang of LBS.

Only person that can hurt me is me,
only person that can decide who I love is me,
only person that can decide who I don't love is me.

Me falling in love is act of love for myself,
me loving another is act of love for myself,
me falling out of love is act of love for myself.

Only I can decide if I should keep loving,
only I can decide If I should let go,
love is a gift, not to another but to self,
letting go is a gift, not to another but to self.

I get to decide what I become,
I can choose path of anger, bitterness and resentment,
and blame others for what is not theirs to carry.
Or I can choose path of compassion, forgiveness and love,
and carry what is mine is to carry.
Because in the end all I give comes back to me,
making the only person that can truly hurt me
or truly love me...me.

Talk about one hell of a lesson to learn just 5 months... I really like these moments of enlightenment, when a number of tiny pieces I've known just clicks and connects. This is where/how I heal my hurts...

Otherwise not much to journal...W informed that she will go to opera with her friend on Friday night  How kind of her not to ask if I had any plans for the night (of course I have no plans, lol)...But it did spark a nice dinner talk with kids when I started toying with idea of us heading to night out of our own,LOL.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 04:54:38 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #94 on: July 18, 2019, 11:15:10 AM »
Finally S5 dropped the question I've been waiting for few months.

S5: Mom, why are you sleeping on the floor?
W: Because I like to
S5: No mom. Why do you sleep in there? Can I come sleep with you?
W (sounding more irritated): Just because I want to. And you will sleep on your bed.

I had really hard time keeping my face as one of her pet peeves with me was use of "because I say/like/want so' with kids. And now that I' m all done and over with it, she's falling to it. LOL. Oh MLC, laughter is thy name this night too...
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #95 on: July 19, 2019, 04:57:07 AM »
A bit of high action day...

I came back from morning walk and heard S5 crying and calling for help the moment I opened the door. W was preparing food, other kids were playing, so I assumed nothing serious. I went to seek what was the matter, and found S5 crying all nude on toilet floor. W had refused to wipe his messy bun, stating big boys do it on their own.

I asked W for help to keep him up while I do the wiping, but she just said "nope, I told him to take care of it on himself. That's why he's crying". I said a couple of not so nice words, and then called G12 and G14 for assistance. When I asked why had they not helped their brother despite cry, they replied because you said to listen and do what mother tells, and W told not to help. Sigh. I reworded my earlier thought (that I hoped would keep them away from collateral damage) and told them to help and support each other when in need regardless of what me,W, or anybody else says. G14 held her crying brother standing while I did the wiping. Talk about family working as unit, LOL.

Then I headed to shower through kitchen, and threw what might be a truth dart towards W: "I know I stepped over your authority again. But I will always support and protect our kids in ways that feel right for me, even when I know you will think and feel otherwise. That is my right and responsibility... Imagine if it was you crying like that on the floor, and none of your family came to look after you or help you. Is it the lesson you want to teach to your kids?" Just silence on her part as I headed to shower.

When finishing shower I heard S5 running around the house and raging. So I called him to me, we talked a bit more what had happened, and eventually gave him a big hug.

Bit later S5 was eager to play with LEGO's. I told " I'm not good at building things, but W is (she truly is, LEGOs are one of her passions/hobbies). If W comes to build something for you, I'll finish the cooking and we can play after food". Into which S5 goes "no. W can build something while two of us do cooking together, and then let's play. It's more fun".

So while two of us headed towards kitchen, W grumbled "as always boys get their will. What if I wanted to cook?". Into which I just replied "It's not a matter of sex as you know"... And W should know it. I had hoped for one more girl instead of son (but I still love S5 equally). And I know she dislikes cooking, but loves the kids and LEGOs.

Was I disrespectful to W with my words and actions? Maybe. But I am no longer walking on eggshelves...

Oh...and while W is at opera, I'm having pizza Friday on the beach with kids. Hope she has fun time there, as I surely will have too.
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #96 on: July 19, 2019, 05:19:21 AM »
Sounds like you're doing good to me Alvin  :)

-SS
W - 38
M - 41
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #97 on: July 19, 2019, 06:08:28 AM »
Sounds like you're doing good to me Alvin  :)

-SS

Oh,  I'm feeling frightfully good most of the time these days. Considering the situation and timespan it feels amazing; that said it did not come easy, and I know I may have won one battle but not the war.

It was very interesting to read of your W's IC experience. I for one am definitely looking forward your further updates.
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #98 on: July 19, 2019, 01:14:06 PM »
And to end this bizarre day, I think we had some kind of late night touch&go. /R talk.

W came back from opera, bringing along programme I had requested. And then we had about 30 minute proper talk just like in the good old times.

I: did you have fun?
W yes, and then explained who they had seen and met.

I:  Excellent, you really deserved the good time after hard day like this.
W:Hard to believe I deserve it. You still occasionally say one, do another, and I don't know what to rely.

I: I know, and I'm still  working on being consistent among many other things. For example today I tackled with mansplaining.

W:what is that?
I gave a short example
W: oh I know that.  You are not worst I know, but you do it occasionally too.

I: you know, right now my focus is somewhat fully on me. Not on you,  not in kids, not our marriage. All about becoming better person, better man. They say it's what I should focus on time like this.
W: who says? why?
I: Various sources. It's like in airplane, when it is about to crash. You take mask on yourself first and help others later.
W: oh...I get it. But this situation is not like that. At least I don't see it like that. My first priority is not me (it's kids).

And then night went in talking about G12 piercing,  Metallica concert, funny news etc.

No (positive) expectations from me. Tomorrow is new day, likely we'll be back to same old MLC broadcast as before. But this was refreshing...
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 01:19:18 PM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #99 on: July 20, 2019, 05:32:22 AM »
No (positive) expectations from me. Tomorrow is new day, likely we'll be back to same old MLC broadcast as before. But this was refreshing...

Are touch&goes more than brief passing moments?

When I got back from my morning hike, I noted W had acquired some fresh fish from local fisher for dinner. Inside my head I was going  'sigh, I really would not have the energy to prepare those as dinner now' and I headed to shower keeping my thoughts to myself.

When coming out from shower, I was slightly surprised to see W trying to gut the fishes. It seemed such "torment", that I asked if she wanted any help. W replied "It's been so long since I last cleaned some fish that it's bit hard".
I told "if it's ok for you you, I can come and assist with gutting".  W went "ok".

And then again we talked some while working side by side preparing dinner.

It was not as carefree conversation as last night, but still much more enjoyable than stonewalling or angry bashing. W did try to poke some sore spots, expressed resentment on some topics , and expressed selfbashing on some, but I just kept my cool. But man, she really does follow all I do /do not, or say with frightening precision.

Possibly of interest or not... I have not seen shark eyes on her never (yet), but when looking at last night and today, I realized W does speak with totally different tone when in the zone. There is a kind of sharpness in her voice, last night it was missing completely and today it came through only briefly. But when in the zone, it's that sharp tone all the time.

But again, listening and validating her talks gave me something to work with my inner self.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 05:47:36 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #100 on: July 20, 2019, 08:17:22 AM »
Ah, time for some more MLCr laughs...

I was heading out to late night beach visit with S5 and G12, and decided to ask W if she wants join us .

W: No. I'm feeling too b!tc#y to be good company.

Lol. She recognized her mood to the d.  :o
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 08:41:14 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #101 on: July 20, 2019, 11:15:48 PM »
Journalling.... If MLCs cook, the same applies with us LBS. Woke up this morning thinking about what's better/worse/same in my life than few months back.

Then I got the most frightening tought of all - I could have it easier if I just walked off and left her deal with this mess all alone. And I realize, this kind of thinking would be MLCr solution to MLC problem. Talk about infectious thinking, LOL.  A wiser, bigger person approach is to look within me and work through myself. M (especially with kids) is not about fairness or changing one set of problems to new ones. All issues can be fixed if both parties are involved, but with MLC it turns into silly waiting game with tons of uncertainty.

Interestingly W has not mentioned divorce or separation since I started pulling away from trying to fix the R. And she knows (as I've told her) that I'm no longer afraid of the option of divorce... Kind of fun how focusing on myself and overcoming my fears is disarming her, I no longer have to dance her dance. And I think she feels it too (making her even more confused and frustrated). All in all I'm no longer the guy she's been married; but I'm a damn lot closer to guy she married.


« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 11:24:20 PM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline seahorse

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #102 on: July 21, 2019, 07:54:39 AM »
Alvin - attaching and following.
So happy that things are moving in a positive direction for you.
Keep working on yourself; you can see the positive consequences that it's having.
BUT, (I said this earlier today to another), IF this is MLC, you're very early in the process so take it for what it's worth.
Enjoy your times together, when they're good, but don't expect anything.
You're doing great - keep it up.

Sea
Seahorses have one mate for life...

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #103 on: July 21, 2019, 08:51:29 AM »
BUT, (I said this earlier today to another), IF this is MLC, you're very early in the process so take it for what it's worth.
Enjoy your times together, when they're good, but don't expect anything.
You're doing great - keep it up.

Sea

Thanks Sea... I know painfully well this is way too early to be anything but short break (regardless of MLC or something else).  And things are now back to usual "colder than north pole"... possibly the hardest part of no expectations is not to have positive expectations, but also not to have the negative ones.

S5 has once again been initator of some situations/talks.

S5 wanted to go at the beach, but W just laid on coach ("It's way too hot. I can't survive this summer heat, I can't take you anywhere"). After countless pleas I gave in and two of  us headed to beach for hour. As this has been going on all summer ( and for years), I could not help asking  "what would you do if I was not around to take kids to beach?"...Needless to say, no response from W...  The more I have been reviewing my life, the more I have realized that I do way more than my fair share at home and with kids.  Maybe it has contributed to M/R issues, but at least I've been a father and husband to best of my (then) abilities.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 08:54:42 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #104 on: July 21, 2019, 09:11:26 AM »
Alvin -
I’m so happy that you’re there for S5 and able to care for him and make him happy.
Your W if in no way able to contribute to family at this point.
Just continue to be your terrific self and take care of yourself and S5.

Have fun at the beach.

Sea
Seahorses have one mate for life...

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #105 on: July 21, 2019, 09:48:46 AM »
Alvin -
I’m so happy that you’re there for S5 and able to care for him and make him happy.
Your W if in no way able to contribute to family at this point.
Just continue to be your terrific self and take care of yourself and S5.

Have fun at the beach.

Sea

Oh, we (S5, G12,G14 and I) are having beach fun (again).

Tbh, I am more worried of G12 than S5...  G18 went through years of severe depression in her teens (and got out of it only few years back), and I fear I'm noting some of the same early warning signs with G12. But I'm no longer afraid to call for outside help early on if situation IMO so requires.  I just hope once the school season kicks in, she and all other kids will get temporary relief from this madness through friends etc. I know kids get the situation way too well (in their own level), but of course Wifey thinks none of this has influence if we don't turn it into anything big (I would not call her mattress on living room floor big, but it is, LOL).
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 09:53:42 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

Offline seahorse

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #106 on: July 21, 2019, 04:03:58 PM »
Well, I'm glad that you had fun with all 3 kids, and that you're keenly aware of the early signs of teenage depression.
My s17 suffers as well, but won't do anything about it.  He gets to IC about once or twice/month, but still unable to mend his relationship with his father.
Just love them - that's all we can do.

Sea
Seahorses have one mate for life...

Online AlvinTheMakerTopic starter

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Re: New guy - wife having MLC or just resentment?
« Reply #107 on: Today at 05:55:33 AM »
There's sunny and calm before the storm, and storm arrived late last night. We had a R talk. Big one, we talked nearly 2 hours...

It all started when I asked W if she knew what's a Disney parent (one who does only nice stuff instead of discipline). I thought it was fun trivia, but one topic lead to another, and we were eventually in full swing. No real momstering on her part, but she was defensive and annoyed most of the time, and let her walls come down only few times.

Possibly the most influental part of it all was when I told her that eventually I want more than current anti-relationship, and if we fail to create a proper relationship, there will be consequences. No surprise there if you ask me, but I guess it was good to voice it aloud, and she sheemed somewhat disappointed by it.   Maybe she was living with assumption that this kind of "cake-eating" (having all marriage/relationship benefits without relationship) could go on forever...

...

I: you say kids matter to you most in the world. But do they...? I really do my best not to hurt you or kids, and I'm working my ass off to keep you all protected in the future, to become better man and better husband that you could love so this family would have a future. But I hope you realize that I want more than this. I do not want just emotionless co-living and co-parenting from the future, I want a full relationship with mutual love - because of myself and kids. But with the way things are, sooner or later my love for you will die out - and after that I will not be there for you.

W: Should I be scared? Or worried?

I: Neither. It's just a fact. Life will go on regardless of what happens, and I'm sure we all would survive.  But life for all would be different, very different from what we have now...  Have you ever thought about parenting... I know I would like to have the kids 100% for myself, but I know you would not agree to that.  I know 50/50 could be workable too if each of us would have kids for 6 months in one go or you moved around when I would move. But I know you want to continue living here, and kids too - but I have no reason to stay anywhere in this state, possibly not in the country.  So that would leave me with 0 parenting and casual visits... And I really don't know if I could be a real father to my kids like that. All I would have in common would be bloodline, some fun time and past memories. How would that kind of future be in best interest of kids? 

W: So you know how I would choose?
I: I would love nothing more than have you and kids in my life. That is why I started improving myself first place, now I do it to became best version of me.

W: And what if I just can't?   What if I don't know how to fall in love?
I: Unless you even try, nothing gets a chance.  All it takes is self-study, looking within your inner self, and desire to change things. You've seen me change in these months...

W:  What if I don't want?   What if there is nothing special inside me?  I know there is nothing special, I'm just very dump, very stupid woman who does not understand of anything anymore. Likely never has... What if there is something horrible? What if there is something I don't like inside me?
I: It is your choice what you do. But unless you do some inner work with yourself, things will not improve.  And I can't be the one fixing you.

W: What is there to fix?  And maybe things work differently for me.
I: Maybe. I don't know. This is something you have to figure out on your own. I can't fix you.

...

MLC? Resentment? Depression? Falling out love genuinely???  I think I heard them all during the night...  All I know she's one seriously mixed bag.

And yes, I realize she will feel I'm pushing her. Demanding... 

She was angry/frustrated as as hell for not getting to sleep before 1:30AM (which time she usually goes to be bed after gaming for hours - she does it because of anxiety I learned). 

She slept till 9AM on living room floor. When S5 started jumping all over her, I took S5 to quick beach visit and meanwhile W had taken some breakfast and gone back to sleep to MBR.  She slept there till midday, ate a bit of food I had prepared for the family, took few painkillers (saying "hopefully these will make me less of a momster") and went back to MBR.  She's clearly totally exhausted.

Me... I'm nowhere as dead I thought I would be.   Yes, it did hurt to hurt say some of those things aloud, but I'll live.  Yes, I did feel some anxiety, but I'll live.  Detachment works apparently. This was full 180 to our talks.... But considering that all the distancing etc  has not done anything else than "superficial calm" and allowed both of us to regroup our thoughts (at least I did so), maybe it was time to say some things aloud.  At least she acknowledged that I'm shifting the responsibility on her (and she did not like it).
 
Possibly worst part is that kids sense something happened / changed last night. Only time will tell what will be the output of this.  I'm taking this one day at a time, one day at a time.
« Last Edit: Today at 06:29:58 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
M: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

 

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