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Author Topic: My Story Reconnecting Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light

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My Story Reconnecting Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
OP: May 24, 2019, 02:54:43 PM
Ok. Starting a new thread! Almost forgot how!

A new twist in the tale that I'm now dealing with....My S16 posted on Instagram the following; "Does anyone know the fastest way to kill yourself."

I'm beyond frightened...........

We are trying to peel the onion and find out what's going on....... :'(

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9982.0
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« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 09:11:28 AM by OldPilot »
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#1: May 24, 2019, 04:32:36 PM
Oh Slow fade,

That’s awful. Not sure what to say but I believe telling him you love him may be more powerful than you think so it’s a start.

Thinking of you 💕

Rose 🌹
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#2: May 24, 2019, 05:40:08 PM
Oh my God, SF. That is terrifying.

My D said some similar things when she was about 13. Just out of nowhere. I definitely feel your pain. In my D's case, things passed quickly with no known permanent damage. Hoping and praying for the best for your family.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#3: May 25, 2019, 09:14:27 AM
Coming along and sorry to read about your son. Does he have a good friend you could reach out to speak to him? Sometimes it is easier for teenagers to talk about stuff like that with someone they aren't related to or feel threatened by.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#4: May 25, 2019, 01:29:38 PM
Slow, I'm really sorry to hear this. I like what Morte suggests, speaking to his friend. I'm sure you're doing everything you can to help him. That's all you can do. Sending you and your S big hugs.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#5: May 25, 2019, 07:59:57 PM
Oh gee Slow Fade, that is scary. I have a D17 who is swimming in some very dark waters at the moment too. 

With your S, I feel like it is a cry for help rather than a plan he has decided on because honestly, you could google that question without anyone ever knowing what you were planning to do and talking you out of it.  He seems to feel stuck and it might feel like its his only option so talking to him about his options and other supports might help.  There are a lot of online forums nowadays that allow them to read along like we do before dipping their toe in the water of actually asking for help.  It will help him feel less alone 24/7.

Sending hugs x
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#6: May 26, 2019, 06:50:34 AM
I have been where you are SF. All you can do is love him and be his safe place.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#7: May 26, 2019, 11:43:37 AM
     My d14 was 11 when she started cutting herself and thinking about suicide. When i found out i got her into counseling. She says it didnt help. What did help is her brothers. She didnt want to hurt or disappoint them. I let her know how much she was loved and just be there for her.
     Its a frightening place to be in when they are in thst state of mind. Sometimes i was to afraid to go to work and what i would come home to. She actually asked me to hide the razors one day before i left.
        She is past all that now. She is realizing how wonderful she can make her life. I asked my family for help keeping an eye on her. I was working 2 jobs at the time and couldnt do it by myself. They were more than willing to be there. I was very lucky that way.
    My heart goes out to you. Just let him know that you are there and reach out to friends and family. You are in my prayers.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#8: May 27, 2019, 02:49:48 AM
Oh my goodness SF, how terrifying.

I'm a bit worried you haven't done something quickly about this.  I hope you have.

I have a friend whose son did the same thing.  I begged him to go for help - fast!  I went to the house and wanted to take the kid with his Dad to a mental health expert.  I was told "everything will be ok"  The kid committed suicide two days later.

Sometimes it's a cry for help and sometimes not.  This boy's family don't have the options you have now and wish they did.  Please take him to an expert who deals with mental health problems and have him assessed.  Someone to talk to and maybe some appropriate medications along with some meditation and natural therapies could have him in a much better place quite quickly.  He's asking for help, reach out in a way that makes a difference.

Keep us posted.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#9: May 27, 2019, 06:20:10 AM
Good Grief!

That has to be scary! Like the others said, there are lots of things it COULD be but one thing it is is serious....
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#10: May 28, 2019, 08:57:54 AM
OMG such a wonderful, caring group of people you all are........thank you so much!  :-* :-* :-* :-*

S16 has talked to a crisis counselor whom he liked very, very much. He has this man's card in his wallet and he can reach out to him anytime. This man also calls him to check on him. Therapy will be starting soon. My co-workers (firefighter-paramedics) have also closed ranks around him and he is doing ride alongs with the crews which he is also enjoying.

His demeanor has gotten noticeable better this weekend, he is still stressed about school and the bully's there, but he only has a week or so left so I think we can get through. He's not being left alone but not in an obvious way. Lots of hugs, I love you's, and positive comments to him. He has been spending time with is father which has been surprisingly good for both of them.

He has a concert with his half-brother in July and another event with me in June that he's looking forward to, so that's a plus. We are taking a family vacation in July as well with extended family and he is really looking forward to that.

Guns are gone, medication is locked away and doctors visit is coming up.

One interesting comment the crisis counselor made was "Let's get him into a male therapist, he needs a positive male role model in his life right now." Gee, do ya think?  ::)

MLC, the gift that keeps on giving...... :P
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#11: May 28, 2019, 09:24:13 AM
Oh wow...just reading your initial post left such an awful pit in my stomach.  I couldn't imagine coming across anything worse and how wonderful that you and your circle closed in so quickly and perfectly.  My close friend at work got a phone call from her son (junior high) telling her that he wasn't going to school so not to worry if the school calls.  She just had a "knowing" and immediately left to go home.  Her son then admitted that he was planning to kill himself and had the plan all laid out.  Like you, she shot into action - this was over a year ago now.  It still leaves me cold to think about it.  He's doing so much better but they are an outdoorsy family and guns, etc... were readily available so those were taken apart and spread out across family and friends.  It's so tough being a teen in this day and age.  Well done!
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#12: May 28, 2019, 09:36:15 AM
You are amazing in how you´ve intervened. I would imagine that at some point the therapist will seek a joint counseling session with your H and then perhaps H will connect the dots as to how S has been affected. Nothing like a third party to point out the obvious. I´m just sorry that your S reached this point of desperation. S knows without a doubt that you´ve got his back.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#13: May 28, 2019, 10:00:03 AM
Sorry Slowfade to read about your son. Nothing will make a mom move faster than a child in distress and you have proven that is true. Sounds like he has your full attention and is surrounded by care and support . Following along with you SF.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#14: May 28, 2019, 05:15:04 PM
SF, so glad to hear that things are pretty well controlled currently. It's wonderful that you have such a great village of people looking out for him, including your H. Amazing, isn't it? I will be looking for updates.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#15: May 29, 2019, 08:07:55 AM
Thank you DCD, FTT, Barbiedoll and LIAOK.

I was doing a little sunbathing last night and S16 kept pestering me to watch a program that we usually tape and watch at a later time.  The second time he asked, I knew something was up. We got 3/4 of the way through the program and S16 was on his phone and I could tell that he was upset so I asked him what was going on.

Apparently he called out the bully about his behavior and things escalated quickly. My son reminds me of a battered wife and the bully the husband. S16 just wants this friend to back off and this friend is like a shark in the water smelling blood and ramping it up. Another friend came into the group trying to be a peacemaker, telling S16 to get a thicker skin (some truth to that) and basically excusing the bully's behavior as a "boys will be boys" thing. My son was shaking, he had tears in his eyes and his voice was cracking as we were talking about it. He looked like a hunted animal.

I and his father have decided to pull S16 from school for the remainder of the year and have asked to have his assignments and study sheets sent home and to make arrangements for him to take his finals but nothing else. Its interesting to see that S16 has A's and B's in every class EXCEPT the one he has with the bully. In that class he has an F. Very telling I think.

I know that no matter how flat you make a pancake, there are two sides and I'm not under the impression that my son is totally innocent, but when your child says he wants to kill himself because of behavior that has been going on at school I taker it very, very seriously.

Sorry, this isn't a forum for teen suicide but you all are a great support group and I have lots of respect and love for all of you. Thank you for listening....

Hugs ((()))
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#16: May 29, 2019, 09:38:47 AM
I was bullied in school so I get it. I am glad you are pulling him out for now, but something needs to be done with the administration before next school year. Can you have a meeting with the other boy's parents in attendance?
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trying2bok

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#17: May 29, 2019, 09:45:20 AM
Learning, H is going to contact the offenders parents and give them a head up and maybe get the other side of the situation. Or at least what the offender thinks is the other side.  ::)

Regardless, perception is reality for S16 and he is being tormented.

I just spoke with the principal and assignments and study guides are going to be emailed to me and S16 will only have to go in and take his finals next week. The principal said "depression is hard to deal with." I replied with "So is bullying. Which came first?"  >:(

I'm not going to let them paint this as just a case of teen depression. The bullying needs to be dealt with.  >:(
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#18: May 29, 2019, 10:12:17 AM
I am so happy that your H is manning up and stepping in. It is good to hear both sides.

I feel the schools let this go on too long with no intervention. I never understood why it is tolerated. I endured my bullying episodes due to one of the school librarians. I would volunteer in the library and she really took a liking to me. She gave me much needed acceptance and a feeling that I was a worthy person.

I made a promise to myself that no one would ever make me feel bad about myself again while still in high school. A promise I felt I broke when MLC rocked my world.  MLC left me feeling less than. I believed it and had to claw my way back out of that hole.

I hope your S figures out that everyone has an opinion about everyone and everything. One of my favorite sayings is from Eleanor Roosevelt "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
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trying2bok

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#19: May 29, 2019, 10:25:23 AM
It was good to speak with you this morning. Thank you for all that you are doing for S16.!

You mentioned depression and yes, I agree that while undiagnosed, it may be an issue. We will see what his doctor and therapist determine. I also wanted to alert you to the fact that there has also been a substantial amount of bullying and intimidation being done by a certain individual within his group which also has contributed to S16's issues. No physical violence as of yet although S16 is afraid of what this person would do should S16 push back at him.  S16 also does not want to be ostracized by his peers due to the influence of one person so he has been putting up with the abuse for a very long time as he doesn’t want to lose the rest of his friends.

Hard to tell which came first, the chicken or the egg in this situation but the actions of this friend have most definitely brought it to a head.


This is what I wrote to the principal after he suggested it was only an issue of depression. They have no idea who they are dealing with. I've walked through fire and survived.  ;)
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#20: May 29, 2019, 10:43:17 AM
That was a great, facts only, unemotional letter. I hope it hits the mark.
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trying2bok

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#21: May 29, 2019, 11:33:12 AM
By law the school MUST intervene but only if put on notice. Please be explicit in putting them on notice otherwise they and the bully are off the hook. If your son has text messages that show a pattern, please save and print them out. If the situation is left that your son is the source of the situation, imagine the damage of internalizing that brings. Even if he meets the criteria for a depression diagnosis, it makes the bully´s actions even worse- targeting a vulnerable person fighting a mental health issue.

The school needs to do its part in addressing what has already happened and make school a safe place for next year.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#22: May 29, 2019, 11:54:29 AM
Yep go right after the school. I was there quite a few times about my girls. I was also bullied in school and I was not going to put up with it happening to them. From anybody.

True story. They had a program they call DARE for the 6th graders some of you may have heard of it. It's a class that lasts maybe 6 to 8 weeks. Drug and alcohol awareness. A County Sheriff usually teaches it.

About 3 weeks into the program my oldest is crying she doesn't want to go to school because of the DARE class. I asked her what was wrong. She said the Sheriff had threatened that if the kids didn't do their DARE homework she was coming to their house and taking them away to foster care. :o >:( >:( >:(

If you don't think I wasn't TOTALLY livid over that. I contacted the principal and the superintendent and we all had a meeting with this sheriff. And I'm sure most of the school could hear me. I reamed her a new one.

Then I pulled my daughter out of DARE and she spent that class period in the library.

What kind of an idiot says that to a kid?
Do not put up with one ounce of crap from the school or anyone when it comes to your own child.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#23: May 29, 2019, 11:58:02 AM
That was a great, facts only, unemotional letter. I hope it hits the mark.
   Thank you. Gee, where do you think I learned how to do that!!!!   ;) ;) ;) ;D

FTT, I think we did put the school on notice. I mentioned names and told them about the bullying and they know about the suicidal idealizations. I will get the texts copied out from my son for the file.

I have to say that the principal was very gracious and had no problem working with us regarding these last few days. He said obviously S16's health was more important than school. The reason I sent that email was because he only mentioned depression and not the bullying. Now its on record.

Lord, S16 survived all that crap with his Dad and it ends up that one of his friends takes him down that dark path? Ugh.  :P
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#24: May 29, 2019, 11:59:47 AM
In It, that is horrible! I would have done the same thing!

Mamma Bears are a force to be reckoned with for sure! Especially LBS Mamma Bears!  ;)
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#25: May 29, 2019, 12:04:45 PM
Yeah that was way before BD and then I had a go around with a teachers aid that was bullying her in First grade!
Reamed her a new one too.
I just had to keep reminding myself I didn't look good in an orange jumpsuit or stripes!
I was there quite a few times.

In regards to your son: Friends shouldn't be the ones who do that. Your son needs some time away from that environment.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

L
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#26: May 29, 2019, 03:33:37 PM
Yup, leave my kids alone! I was a great mama bear also. Many go-a-rounds with the schools with the kids. I was told by my D35's 5th grade teacher that there was nothing she could do about the bullying and it was sexual in nature. Of course, xH was no help.  ::)  It was all left up to me to be the bad guy.

I agree with FTT, document everything.
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trying2bok

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#27: May 29, 2019, 03:47:24 PM
Fortunately for me I don't mind a bit playing the bad guy .I didn't look at it that way.
In fact I told them they would rather deal with me than the ex
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

L
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#28: May 29, 2019, 04:07:06 PM
LOL! In It. My xH always treated me like I was the mean one. Looking back, I can remember times he egged me on to be combative and he just sat in the background. He really is a wuss.
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trying2bok

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#29: May 29, 2019, 05:39:05 PM
Yep cowards the lot of them.
Looking for any kind of reaction. And just keep upping the ante.
You start winning when you stop playing games.

Fell for that many times myself Learning.. Could care less what anybody thinks of me anymore.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#30: May 30, 2019, 03:43:26 AM
I know that feeling of helplessness and hopelessness as a parent when your child is being bullied...

My second D has a history of depression and it started when she was about 9 and I discovered she had been bullied on and off for some time. Your heart breaks when you hear your little girl sitting on the stairs saying that " she is worthless and useless"

How can this happen to a child and why had the school not picked it up.  Well I too became a mama bear and as a teacher knew exactly what the law and what schools should do. The then head was utterly useless and only acted when we threatened legal action.  The bully's parents were devastated and by the time my D left primary school things had calmed down.

But the high school with an equally ineffective headteacher completely ignored my request to separate the two in classes and form groups and it took another 4 years of arguing and action.  Eventually my D dealt with it in the way H had advised and I urged her not to  but it worked. I cannot condone it but when my D was blocked into the toilet cubicle with this girl taunting and poking her (watched by an army of cowards) D turned and punched the living daylights out of this girl.   

The school suspended D for a couple of days and then suspended the other girl for weeks.   My D was never bothered by her again and sad to say the girl herself was eventually expelled for turning on a teacher. 

All I could say to the school (by this time a new and very supportive head teacher) was "I told you so" and I still have the many many letters I sent and minutes I took of the meetings because I don't want to ever forget what we had to do.

Sadder still - my daughter still has depression and attachment issues. On a good note though she is a fabulous mother to my GD and is doing her utmost to ensure that her D carries no baggage and learns how to be assertive and able to set boundaries.

So that level of darkness showed us the light.

Don't give in  SF and be guarded and watchful at all times.  Schools need to take responsibility when in loco parentis and some of them so easily avoid doing so.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#31: May 30, 2019, 04:24:36 AM
Sf I’m so glad you are on the schools back side and sought help for s16 ASAP. I also have a suicidal s16 who also has high functioning aspergers. It is an extreme worry but it sure puts things into perspective and we mama bears pull all our strength right up for our children. I’m glad your son has support from your work colleagues and is feeling a bit better.

My son is in counselling and on medication. I am so vigilant as you are. God help me if the police stop me as they will find all kitchen knives and razors and all medication from the house in the boot of my car.

One thing that has helped my son is I enrolled him in the local army cadets. Is there any cadets of any sort near you? Army, police, air or sea cadets? I explained to the sergeant my sons issues and they have been fantastic. He received  his official army no and uniform last week and they don’t pressure to join the army later which is good as my son wishes to go into the medical field. I feel his discussion in his future job is a positive.

Hope your sons is on the road to recovery although as we know it can be a slow process xx
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Crazy divorce started by him.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#32: May 30, 2019, 08:27:52 AM
Thank you Learning, InIt, S&D and RP.

I think we have the train on the tracks and it is moving.

Quote
Eventually my D dealt with it in the way H had advised and I urged her not to  but it worked
I get it. My H has encouraged S16 to do this as well considering S16 is 6'1 and 175 pounds, however S16 is afraid that this bully has some kind of weapons in his backpack. Hmmmmm. May need to get the safety officer involved at some point........

Quote
My son is in counselling and on medication. I am so vigilant as you are. God help me if the police stop me as they will find all kitchen knives and razors and all medication from the house in the boot of my car.
This made me giggle as I have hidden my medication as well! My gun went with his father. I don't think S16 would use a knife but you never know. I discovered he had stopped talking his ADD medication, which the doctor said was ok to do, but I grabbed those half full prescriptions and hid them as well just in case. Sucks that we have to do this........ :(

RP we don't have any type of program like that. That is why I'm having him ride along with our fire guys. He gets a taste of the discipline and camaraderie that goes along with a career field hes interested in and also gets a lot of male bonding. Its been good for him.

Surprisingly  H has been the top dog in this fight. He has called the bullly's parents and has talked with the school and I've kind of had to hold him back a bit.  :o
Nice to see him acting like a father again. Its been a while.......

He just passed his drivers exam after a 4th try (the people in the DMV were looking at me like I was crazy as I screamed and jumped up and down when they said he passed!  ;D) and has a doctors appointment to discuss any physical issues or testing for imbalances that may need to be done.

I'm waiting for a call from the school to see when I can go and pick up S16's study guides for his end of year exams.  One day at at time.......
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#33: May 30, 2019, 01:28:40 PM
Slow, just catching up. You have done everything you could and more to help your S16. I'm very impressed with all you've done since your son's post on facebook, including rallying your work colleagues. Your poor boy being bullied on top of everything else. My S was bullied at middle school and at the end of the second year told me he wasn't going back in September. I had to move him to another school because I knew he meant it. He was so much happier in the new school. You did so well to pull him from his school. I don't understand how with all the supposed non tolerance to bullies nowadays, bullies still get to have a pretty unchallenged life.

My oldest D has threatened suicide a couple of times to me on the phone, and I do take it seriously, as you do. I do feel that often our kids' depression, which leads them to want to hurt themselves, might be caused by stress and a sense of loss of control and one more thing to bear which then becomes the final straw. So well done for pulling him from that school immediately. I bet he is so grateful.
Big hugs to you and your boy.xxx
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#34: May 30, 2019, 01:57:12 PM
Aw thank you Milly.

I was amazed that for all the posters on the wall of the school, the positive affirmation notes on people's lockers, the assemblies, the programs, the talks that they have about bullying, when someone comes to them with a bullying issue you kind of get a "deer in the headlight" look.

Its like they talk the talk, but don't know how to walk the walk!  :P
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#35: July 25, 2019, 09:44:35 AM
So S16 is in counseling but he always wants me to sit in on it. Oh boy, does this child have some anger towards his Father!  :o :o He is using the anger as a blanket so that his Father can't hurt him again. We have had many tears and things are coming out that are HUGE triggers for me. Things I didn't know about the affair....... :P

While he is working on S16, I'm learning how to cope as well just by being in the room listening. He is working on anger and how anger is usually fear based and is used for protection. Interesting. S16 is supposed to keep a log every time his anger is triggered and look at why and what purpose it is serving etc. The counselor wants him to perhaps write a letter to his Father telling him about how he was hurt and what triggers him. Soooooo, I decided to do the same thing......Oh boy.

I asked H to address the following:

1. It triggers me that you don't want to renew your vows
2. It triggers me that you won't acknowledge me as your wife in public
3. It triggers me that you don't hold my hand, or give me a hug or a kiss unless I ask for it
4. It triggers me that you don't talk about our future.

This is really putting the target on the elephant in the room that we've had (I've had  :P ) since we got back together.

I got crickets...........then I got "Well I'll have to think about it so I can formulate a response that you will understand." I was like  ??? ??? ???

Now I'm wondering if we even have a future...... :(
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#36: July 25, 2019, 09:48:04 AM
Those all sound like acknowledgement of a future together.

Different examples but all the same thing. No wonder you are upset by it.

Sorry I don't have any advice for you, but I completely understand why you are hurt. I hope he comes up with something ''you will understand''.  :o ::)
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#37: July 25, 2019, 10:28:14 AM
Quote
.then I got "Well I'll have to think about it so I can formulate a response that you will understand.

He may not understand the concept of being triggered.

He possibly wants to sweep under the carpet and thinking just as my H said several months ago - I'm not able to make a the kind of commitment to us that you might be looking for.

Reconnection is a really long process; I had under-estimated how long. We've been in reconnection 2 years now and it's only been baby steps. 

I'm not surprised that S16 is expressing his anger and there will be more to come. Been there with my S22 and it's really tough.  However listening is the best thing to do - not fix or offer thoughts as I tried to but listen and just keep telling him that you love him no matter what he thinks or says in anger. It's also great that he has a counsellor he is prepared to talk to.  It took me three years to find someone for S; useful but very very very expensive.....
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#38: July 25, 2019, 11:03:11 AM
Thank you Mortesbride and S&D.....

Quote
Those all sound like acknowledgement of a future together.
I agree and that's all I want. I've waited long enough for him to give me that reassurance and now I'm going to poke the bear.

Quote
He possibly wants to sweep under the carpet and thinking just as my H said several months ago - I'm not able to make a the kind of commitment to us that you might be looking for.
Yes, I could see him saying this. But what does that even mean? That he could up and leave at any time? Do I really want to live under that question mark? I don't know......

Quote
Reconnection is a really long process; I had under-estimated how long. We've been in reconnection 2 years now and it's only been baby steps.
  We are going on 4 years.........7 years since BD. I hate MLC.........
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#39: July 25, 2019, 11:15:50 AM
Still no acknowledgement after so many years. That seems to be a "pattern" as well in some who are reconnecting. Makes me wonder if there isn't some area in their brain that has been permanently damaged.

You know though, I see in my friends who are married, not all, but some, that their needs are not being met, that they are lonely, that their spouses don't communicate with them as they wish...sometimes it might be to my advantage to be alone.

I am sorry your son is having so much difficulty. My daughter absolutely refuses to share with me anything about how she feels about her dad.

I was just reading the news and one of the teens in Canada who the police are looking for in connection with the deaths of 3 people, his dad stated that his son is on a suicide mission..that he has been in pain since his parents divorced and he wants the pain to stop.

My mind went to, so dad whose son is in so much pain...who initiated the divorce?

I feel sad slowfade for you and your son and actually for your husband who cannot enter into a real relationship it seems with anyone.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#40: July 25, 2019, 11:29:50 AM
Thank you XYCZF. I think it is definitely some kind of brain damage or emotional damage or mental illness......something.

Don't feel sad for us. S16 and I are getting help and support. We are pulling ourselves up and addressing our pain and abandonment. We have God and he will take us where we need to go. Philipians 4: 6-7.

I feel sad for H who is missing out on a wonderful family. How much fun could we have if H was engaged? S16 and I go to the movies and go here and there and we laugh and joke and have a wonderful time. And H cannot manage to share in any of that. S16 said even when he goes, he looks miserable and as if he doesn't want to be there.........he's right.

Maybe S16 is a little more right about things than I am...........

I don't mind (too much for now) if we live as roommates. I just want the bottom line so I can adjust my expectations to match. I'm tired of always being disappointed. I'm worth more than that. I have more to give than that.

I know H cannot carry on a physical affair due to ED issues from prostate surgery, but that doesn't mean he isn't having an emotional one.

I still feed bound by my Faith and my Vows. I will stand. I just want to know WHERE I stand right now.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#41: July 25, 2019, 05:01:15 PM
We have had many tears and things are coming out that are HUGE triggers for me. Things I didn't know about the affair....... :P

May I ask if it is necessary for you to know things about the affair you did not know? Especially, if I understand currectly, coming from your son?

I got crickets...........then I got "Well I'll have to think about it so I can formulate a response that you will understand." I was like  ??? ??? ???

Now I'm wondering if we even have a future...... :(

In my view as a former MLCer, your husband is right. He needs to think about it to be able to reply to you in a way you understand. He had/has a MLC, he is still not fully out of it - out of Replay and fully out of MLC are different things. He is being considerated. He is taking time to think how to reply to you.

As for you. You should only had asked those questions if you were certain you were ready to whatever answer. Expecting the answers to be something that would go the way you want/expect does not make much sense, does it?

A LBS must never, ever, ask a MLCer anything unless you the LBS is ready for whatever answer the MLCer may, or may not have. What a LBS can do is say something like, this is not working for me. And the been willing to follow suit with whatever the LBS thinks is better for themselves.

I often see reconnecting LBS on HS going on the MLCer too soon with a certain type of question(s) because LBS do not understand MLCers require time and space to process all they have done. Don't get me wrong, with such a long time MLCer as Mr J, I would love the man to just end Replay and be fully done with his crisis. Never going to happen.

I am not certain I understand why you are hurt. You put your husband very difficult questions (for a MLCer). The fact he is going to think how to answer you in a way you may understand speaks volumes.

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#42: July 25, 2019, 05:30:40 PM
Quote
I am not certain I understand why you are hurt.
.

I understand 100 % why you are hurt, if not very angry. But I guess hurt is part of anger. I get that MLC men, re-play etc etc  takes a very VERY long time. I do. BUT is everyone else less important? Is everyone else's life less significant or their pain to continue to give "space" to an undecided MLC'er?. Why is priviledge granted at the cost of suffering of so many others? I just do not get it in some cases...not at all. Now, if I have this correct....SF spouse has been 4 years and cannot answer a question regarding his intention for the future. Does he intend to stay in the marriage or not?. Perhaps I am simplifying ...but just firetruck that . Sorry...no really, I am sorry. But the misery , mental and emotional torture on us and then our children?   And he needs more "time" to say whether or not he wants a "future with his family". Have I got that wrong? I just could not accept that . The cost is too high. Maybe , just maybe..we mollycoddle some of these men with being advised to ask nothing, expect nothing, etc. I am not stirring up anything, not trying to be trouble and poke people ...I am only speaking for myself. If my husband could not commit to his future intention ... he is out. He just cannot continue to put so many people thru life altering misery ...especially our children. MLC or not ...my husband would be getting the firetruck out before the sun  sets. And you do not see how this is upsetting Angae?? 
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#43: July 26, 2019, 12:44:28 AM
Quote
You should only had asked those questions if you were certain you were ready to whatever answer. Expecting the answers to be something that would go the way you want/expect does not make much sense, does it?

Harsh though this response may seem I agree with Anjae.   Asking questions to an MLCer never brings the response you are looking for. 
I found this out when I asked H those months ago as to where we were and what I wanted from a marriage.  That's when he said that he didn't think he could provide that kind of commitment or was even ready to. 

However I do understand why you are hurt - it's been 4 years since reconnecting and 7 since BD. You'd think he'd be closer to the end of the tunnel by now.  Well maybe the first year of reconnection wasn't reconnection - maybe it was an early return.  Much as we are advised not to stagewatch - look back at H's actions and words four years ago.  Were they signs of an early return with good intentions and  now he is in limbo?  Has he really been through liminality?

Once H had dealt me the mini mini blow of not answering the question the way I had hoped for, I re-read RCR's articles again and realised that he was on the edge of liminality (lots of sleeping and other stuff) -I had asked way too soon.  Perhaps your H is just sitting there on the edge. He thinks he knows what he wants but he's frightened to commit because he doesn't want to hurt you again but his depression is telling him that he can only protect himself.

That however doesn't help you unless you are prepared to continue your stand. In which case and frustratingly time time time.....Urgh!
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#44: July 26, 2019, 01:07:35 AM
I am assuming that you want to continue standing, and that is your choice.
Your hurt and doubt is entirely understandable as is your son's anger and hurt.
But doesn't change that your h is where he is...which seems to be some kind of semi-detached living in the present that feels ok enough for him to carry on doing it.
I suspect that 'knowing where you stand' either needs to be based on in front of you currently or not contingent on any input about the future from your h.
So, if you want to stand, can you stand differently so the unanswered or unknown is less relevant? So that 'knowing where you stand' is entirely about you and nothing to do with him including if it never changes from how it is right now? And as well as the emotional issues, are there any practical risks or concerns if the m/h you have today is the one you will have in 2 years or 5 or 10?

No judgement from me. I am not a stander as my situation was quite different.
I think standers get to wrestle with different issues as do those in reconnection while non-standers tussle with the consequences of letting go and a life without their spouse. Neither is easier...just different.
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 01:10:24 AM by Treasur »
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#45: July 26, 2019, 01:17:08 AM
I wonder if it is depression or avoidant attachment with a number of these spouses?

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/avoidant-attachment-part-1-dependence-dilemma-0201184

https://jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-dismissive-avoidant/

And are a good many of us anxiously attached?  Or generally securely attached but get tipped into anxious attachment by our spouses actions?

https://www.theschooloflife.com/thebookoflife/why-anxious-and-avoidant-partners-find-it-hard-to-leave-one-another/

There is a very good book that explains relationships in terms of attachment styles. It’s called ‘Attached’ and is by Levine and Heller.  It isn’t just one more self help book - they know what they are writing about.

If one partner is, at base, avoidant, then it is possible to manage a relationship long term, but it will mean very significant compromises on the part of the securely/anxiously attached whose needs won’t be properly met if the avoidant isn’t willing to try to change their style in reciprocation. This might be ok if there are compelling reasons to keep the relationship.    They don’t suggest that time alone will help.

Levine and Heller have a useful list of distancing behaviors (also called deactivating strategies):

 • Saying (or thinking) “I’m not ready to commit”—but staying together nonetheless, sometimes for years.
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 01:35:30 AM by Nerissa »

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#46: July 26, 2019, 01:54:09 AM
Quote
So, if you want to stand, can you stand differently so the unanswered or unknown is less relevant? So that 'knowing where you stand' is entirely about you and nothing to do with him including if it never changes from how it is right now?

Bang on as always Treasur and this spoke volumes to me too. 
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#47: July 26, 2019, 05:28:17 AM

I suspect that 'knowing where you stand' either needs to be based on in front of you currently or not contingent on any input about the future from your h.
So, if you want to stand, can you stand differently so the unanswered or unknown is less relevant? So that 'knowing where you stand' is entirely about you and nothing to do with him including if it never changes from how it is right now?



I agree SlowFade, I can understand the hurt, after all he is home, you would think that something more solid would be in place, not this kind of limbo feeling or detachment :(

It must be very frustrating.

Praying that these walls come down and you are able to connect as a couple and family.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#48: July 26, 2019, 05:42:02 AM
I do believe that many ( if not all) have a very deep avoidant attachment style as Nerissa points out. Just a great post!  I am in that trap . He is very avoidant ( anxious/avoidant) and I am the pursuer . One is seeking a closer intimacy and one is distancing . We have studies the book Attached and have it as an audio book that we refer back to when needed. It is an excellent source of understanding this painful dynamic and a very helpful read. We have studies parts with our therapist and my H clearly understands and accepts that he has been avoidant thru out our marriage ...well, his entire life for the most part. It is his attachment style formed in childhood as is mine. To live in this dynamic is extrodinarily difficult but very common ( I am told) .

Quote
If one partner is, at base, avoidant, then it is possible to manage a relationship long term, but it will mean very significant compromises on the part of the securely/anxiously attached whose needs won’t be properly met if the avoidant isn’t willing to try to change their style in reciprocation. This might be ok if there are compelling reasons to keep the relationship.    They don’t suggest that time alone will help.
.

Indeed, I have faced that there are "very significant comprimises to be made by the anxiously attached" and I believe this 100%. I feel it and sometimes it is just overwhelming and frustratingly painful. But atleast understanding what is happening is incredibly helpful. This book answered many questions that I have struggled with for years. And H says the same . It will be extremely difficult to change without education, counselling and a determination to do so.

Quote
They don’t suggest that time alone will help.
.

And this really is the source of my extreme frustration and reactivity many many times ( I am working on that ...still). I have such a horrible time with " time passing, just waiting , hoping for change " with no concrete action on either side. I have asked my husband many times ..."what is the solution? What is the action you intend to take? What can YOU do to change ? What will I commit to ?". Answers and change do not knock at the front door and hand you the gift of change, nor does it fall from the sky. What "actions" can we put in place to change this dynamic?. I am NOT content to just let time pass in a very painful limbo waiting for years to see if someone "wants me or wants his family". But that is me and my attachment style being tested as well. I have made room in my emotional life to accommodate his struggles with being avoidant and I do understand how deep this avoidant nature is and where it came from. But it has destroyed so many things and in my opinion avoidants will be the larger percentage that suffer MLC breakdowns. Imagine the resentments, anger, discontent they have stacked up by avoiding every issue, every hurt, avoiding asking for what they need, always being "fine" when they are not, being angry and denying it etc etc. How could they NOT explode t some point in life stuffing EVERYTHING and sharing nothing. learning about attachment styles has been my greatest teacher in understanding my H. And of course, myself. Inaction is not an acceptable solution speaking only for myself. An avoidant person is living in extreme pain as is his partner. No one wants to live this way ...

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#49: July 26, 2019, 05:54:57 AM
My therapist also recommended and discussed "Attached" with me. I have the book but have yet to read it. But I can see the "pattern" here in many of our spouses.

treasur's comment resonated with me this morning:

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I think standers get to wrestle with different issues as do those in reconnection while non-standers tussle with the consequences of letting go and a life without their spouse. Neither is easier...just different.

Standers as well are letting go and living without their spouse.......but there are different issues that standers face.

I know that God knows everything that has/is happened. I know that He has permitted it to happen, even for some good which I cannot see...but God has a plan....acceptance and surrender to God's plan remains a hard part of standing, because I don't understand why I cannot have the family and marriage that I want and I don't understand the purpose.

With much prayer, with much contemplation and time, slowly I let go of what I think should happen and ultimately turn things over to God. From this, I have found peace and joy in a life that is not what I choose.


SlowFade wrote:
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I feel sad for H who is missing out on a wonderful family. How much fun could we have if H was engaged? S16 and I go to the movies and go here and there and we laugh and joke and have a wonderful time. And H cannot manage to share in any of that. S16 said even when he goes, he looks miserable and as if he doesn't want to be there.........he's right.

I have a good relationship with my daughter and son in law.....these MLCer's are missing so much as they remain stuck in their cave, even if they wish to escape it...something is holding them back.

It is a sad reality for them, why I am grateful to be the LBSer rather than the MLCer.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#50: July 26, 2019, 06:03:34 AM
And this really is the source of my extreme frustration and reactivity many many times ( I am working on that ...still). I have such a horrible time with " time passing, just waiting , hoping for change " with no concrete action on either side. I have asked my husband many times ..."what is the solution? What is the action you intend to take? What can YOU do to change ? What will I commit to ?". Answers and change do not knock at the front door and hand you the gift of change, nor does it fall from the sky. What "actions" can we put in place to change this dynamic?. I am NOT content to just let time pass in a very painful limbo waiting for years to see if someone "wants me or wants his family". But that is me and my attachment style being tested as well

I spent a long time, first living with H who’s was uncommitted and then waiting and dating and inviting him for family occasions which he was happy to join but he remained undecided.

During all this time I would stuff  my feelings and then blow up every few weeks or else beg or try to explain how wrong he was etc.  After each ‘mistake’ I would berate myself - if only I was more emotionally mature it had more self control he would have stayed.  He encouraged this belief - if only I would change...yet part of the reason I couldn’t stop was because I considered myself feminist and could not, at an observers perspective, best to see myself treated so unfairly or act so pathetically.

It was when I started seeing my current therapist that I realised I wasn’ t making a mistake.  I explained that I had felt I could accommodate an mlc spouse by detaching and waiting but that I’d failed.  Her reply surprised me a bit.  She remarked that she didn’t think I was someone who could live long term with someone who didn’t really love me.  That she felt it would be insuooortable for me to live like this and so of course I lost my temper.  She said it was ok.  That to be otherwise would mean loving inauthentically and without being truly integrated .  (This is to do with me and my character, not anyone else who reads this).

I think we do need to disabuse ourselves of the idea that this is simply a stage, and like a butterfly from a chrysalis, our partners will be restored and transformed.  My T says very clearly that the monster we see is not an alien that has taken over our spouses , but part of who they are .Their shadow side which they may not have realised they had.

Then we have to really ask ourselves if what we are given is enough.  Perhaps it is, depending on our own characters and circumstances.  But perhaps we stay simply out of fear or from lack of being able to imagine a new life.  Both are true of me.  But like Maleficent in her thread,  I see where the red flags were from the start, but they were not big enough while life worked well for us as a couple.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#51: July 26, 2019, 06:05:41 AM
I have a good relationship with my daughter and son in law.....these MLCer's are missing so much as they remain stuck in their cave, even if they wish to escape it...something is holding them back.

It is a sad reality for them, why I am grateful to be the LBSer rather than the MLCer.


I agree so much with this.  And the literature in the topic concurs - it says that the avoidant are not happy and crave intimacy.  They are just unaware and/or unable to do it.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#52: July 26, 2019, 07:16:37 AM
Sounds like a useful book
Although I no longer do MLC or R reading lol.

My default style is Secure...this bit of life experience rocketed me into Anxious. to be fair, I lost all my primary attachments simultaneously. I have no desire yet to replace them so I suspect I am still a WiP but it is my default so I'll get there  ;) My h was Anxious, I suspect...now? No idea...probably the same but just attached to someone else?

but my home base is Secure. And a big shift for me was when I knew beyond doubt in 2017 that no matter how much I tried to tell myself otherwise and no matter how much I had loved my h or enjoyed how he had loved me, I could simply never feel safe or valued by him again. No words or actions would change that. And it was reasonable and healthy for me to feel that way.  Didn't need to be angry or blaming about it, it was just true. I did feel safe and valued; then his behaviour changed and that changed how I saw him. It was the cruelty I think that was the killer app for me. I would rather be alone than in a relationship in which I did not feel safe to be myself, warts and all.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#53: July 26, 2019, 09:09:20 AM
Wow! So much wonderful insight from everyone. I'm overwhelmed! Thank you, thank you. You've all given me a lot to think about.

Anjae and Barbiedoll you have both written things that have made me very thoughtful and I agree with both of you (if that's possible, but then I am a Gemini so there is that dual nature!  ;) )

Anjae I really thought I was prepared to hear the answers to those questions, good or bad. I just thought he was a little further along in his journey, but I guess I was wrong. As to hearing the details of the affair, I don't have a choice. S16 is voicing his issues in therapy and requests that I be there...... :(
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In my view as a former MLCer, your husband is right. He needs to think about it to be able to reply to you in a way you understand. He had/has a MLC, he is still not fully out of it - out of Replay and fully out of MLC are different things. He is being considerated. He is taking time to think how to reply to you.
Thank you, this resonated with me. You are right......

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.SF spouse has been 4 years and cannot answer a question regarding his intention for the future. Does he intend to stay in the marriage or not?. Perhaps I am simplifying ...but just firetruck that . Sorry...no really, I am sorry. But the misery , mental and emotional torture on us and then our children?   And he needs more "time" to say whether or not he wants a "future with his family". Have I got that wrong? I just could not accept that . The cost is too high.
Barbiedoll have you been reading my mind?  ;D ;D ;D

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So, if you want to stand, can you stand differently so the unanswered or unknown is less relevant? 
Good question Treasure........

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Were they signs of an early return with good intentions and  now he is in limbo?  Has he really been through liminality?
Spot on SongandDance.....I need to go back and reflect. I think I need to journal a bit and see where that takes me.

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Praying that these walls come down and you are able to connect as a couple and family.
  Thank you dear Mitzpah. You are in my prayers often as well.

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With much prayer, with much contemplation and time, slowly I let go of what I think should happen and ultimately turn things over to God. From this, I have found peace and joy in a life that is not what I choose.
  Dear XYCZF...thank you for reminding me where my focus needs to be in my life! Bless you.

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My T says very clearly that the monster we see is not an alien that has taken over our spouses , but part of who they are .Their shadow side which they may not have realised they had.
I can see this. I think we all have this side. Scary.

Quote
I knew beyond doubt in 2017 that no matter how much I tried to tell myself otherwise and no matter how much I had loved my h or enjoyed how he had loved me, I could simply never feel safe or valued by him again. No words or actions would change that.
  I think S16 is here. I haven't spoken that thought out loud myself, but I have muddled it in my brain in the wee hours of the morning when I can't sleep.

Lots to think about. I am going to check out that book. Thank you again everyone. That's why I come here. I hope that as we slog through this mess, the newbies will be able to see that it takes time, it takes grit and it takes growth to get through this. Stander or not, we all have to deal and heal. Turn away from the MLC'r and turn inward in order to become your best self. Do not define your life or your happiness based upon someone else's actions. You make the choices in the end for your best life.........
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#54: July 26, 2019, 09:44:51 AM
I have not read Attached but just wanted to mention. My therapist suggested it for me to understand what my attachment style is. Her work with me was 99% all about me, rarely did she comment on my husband. Although the book can also help understand, her emphasis was and always has been on my growth and health.

It is so good to be able to have this discussion.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#55: July 26, 2019, 01:35:23 PM
Slow Fade, I find it very possible to agree both with myself and Barbie.  :)

The thing with some MLCers is that they can return relatively quickly, however, they may take longer than the time they were away to be able to commit and/or answer in a way that is satisfactory to the LBS.

Lets hope your husband is using his time to properly think how to answer you in a manner you can understand. Still, try to prepare yourself for his replies not making sense to you. They may and may be great, but it is not a given.


I understand have to hear about details of the affair because son request you to be there. When my cousin who had MLC (no affair, no leaving, he was a wallower) hit bottom, he start to see a friend of mine who is a psychiatrist. He always wanted someone there with him. It was usually me. His mum and his partner couldn't manage it. It was the worst experience of my life, BD and all that come with it included. I should had not been there, listening to things that did not pertain to me. I tended to blocked by reading or staring out of the window.

Now I don't recall much, if anything, my cousin said on those appointments. Which is good and he does not have a clue what he talked about by then.


I never did MLC or R reading, MLC articles aside. I did neuroscience and neurobiology reading and did courses on those subjects. Relationship reading is, in my view, sort of useless. MLC has nothing to do with the relationship or marriage.

Both mine and Mr J's default attachment style is secure. MLC changes people and MLCers tend to become the opposite of who they were.

As for it not being an alien that took over, but the shadow. I would say it can be mixed, but often it is something never seen before, not even by the MLCer. It is also depression. Depression is not shadow in the psychological sense. I knew Mr J's shadow and he always said he had a Darth Vader side = dark side. He even said so to OW1, letting her know she was only getting is nice side. His normal shadow is nothing like the MLC monster. There is no comparison.

My shadow, if I go with my MLC, is quite nice. I was a very nice MLCer compared to most and don't recall monstering at anyone. Well, maybe a little at Mr J, but it is hard to know if it was because he was being an anwful MLCer or because I was having a mild MLC. My monstering was equivalent to when a non-MLC person gets angry. It is quite rare I become angry, angry. 
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#57: August 20, 2019, 09:08:26 AM
Thank you for asking Albatross.

Things are moving at a glacial pace (except where S16 is concerned, he's growing up way too fast for my taste!  :o )

I did finally get an answer from H regarding his feelings. On our last family vacation, while we were on the road, I was asking him questions just to pass the time. I always love good conversation so I will pick a topic and see where it goes. ( I know, call me a nerd now!  ::) ) I asked him who his hero was. Once we managed to define what a "hero" was outside of the comic book realm, he really blew me away by naming our Pastor as his hero.  :o :o :o  This was the man my H looked in the face and told a bold face lie to early on in MLC. No wonder he doesn't want to renew our vows! The shame must be overwhelming.

I did corner my H on the questions I posed to him and he finally told me that "He cares, but he doesn't care." That he really doesn't "feel" anything anymore. I asked him about attraction to women and he said "Not really. I don't feel anything." I asked if he was attracted to any other women he saw besides me and he said "No". I asked him about our future and he said it was too difficult to even think about the future, that he was just making it through one day at a time. Oddly enough, this was comforting to me and explains a lot about his behavior.

We discussed his surgery and the possibility that hormones may need to be adjusted and we talked about depression and its manifestations. He was open and he promised to talk to the doctor about both of those issues.

After this conversation our relationship has been much better. I've been more relaxed and he's been more chatty and looks happier. I guess it had been weighing on him as much as its been weighing on me.

Is he at rock bottom? I don't know. Is he still in MLC? I would say yes. Am I going to abandon him at this time? No. Not any more than I would abandon any spouse with a traumatic brain injury. For better or worse here I am. What does the future hold? Well, I always have hope and no one knows what may happen anyway.

Right now we are where we are. I'm in the midst of fighting a very bad vole infestation in my yard and its getting personal with the little buggers!  >:( >:(  I've tried to be nice, now I may have to bring out the big guns! No one messes with my landscaping and gets away with it!  ;D
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#58: August 20, 2019, 11:49:30 AM
It is helpful slowfade for you to post this. It helps that your husband is able to put into words that he cannot feel.

I think this is very true in MLC as they look for something that will allow them to feel anything.

I do not think my husband can even feel that he cannot feel  :'(
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#59: August 20, 2019, 12:43:03 PM
Thank you Slow Fade for confirming what we’ve already been told about the MLCer feeling nothing

All very hard for you to cope with but maybe it will bring you some comfort knowing he’s not deliberately trying to hurt you or be distant from you

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#60: August 20, 2019, 12:50:30 PM
Thank you XYZCF and Serenity.

It was like a huge weight was lifted from my shoulders. It was never about me; I know I was told that over and over but to have confirmation from the source is freeing. He was trying to feel; all the replay was to feel something. Depression is a huge component, at least for my H.

Quote
I do not think my husband can even feel that he cannot fee
I truly think you are right when you say work is your husbands mistress; And yes, he's still trying to feel something. I don't think my H had any great insight, I think it was just me poking and poking after reconnecting for an answer. A fluke on my part.

We all just stumble through this mess. I think we need to hold on to ourselves and make ourselves the first priority. Put your own oxygen mask on first. Make sure your life is taken care of and watch them from a distance. That's just my .02 worth. Its not over when and if they come back......its just the beginning. You need to be strong for when they decide to return because they will have nothing to give you at first.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#61: August 20, 2019, 12:59:20 PM
You know how discouraging it gets. So many many years.

I am very glad SlowFade that you have some answers and as I said this helps me as well.

I was telling a new friend some of the things that have happened. She is not connected to the MLC world and is really bright. She listed carefully and at the end she said "there is nothing normal about his behavior".

It was good for me to hear that from fresh eyes...for sometimes he seems "normal" enough yet he continues to act so strangely with me... I am too close to it at times.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#62: August 20, 2019, 02:03:40 PM
Thank you for the update, Slow Fade.

Agree that your husband is still in MLC.

It can be hard to deal with a totally depressed person.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#63: August 21, 2019, 02:18:14 PM
After bomb drop my wife and I watch some movie which has as main role female actress with borderline threats. And in half of movie she turns to me and trough tears she said "I can't feel anything." When person cries that means she is overwhelmed by feelings, right ? So, in my head huge contradiction appears like WTF is that ? She is crying and stating self that she cannot feel anything. It is mind blowing.

By Conway he seems to me that he is in withdrawal phase of crisis. Good is he communicating with you. Also good thing is like seems he trying to reconnect with son. Does he ask anything about you ? Have any interest in you as human being ?  Is he still like me me me ? In withdrawal phase he should not be like such. Have faith, he is out of tunnel, I believe. What is about his social interactions with friends, relatives ? Is he lack of life energy ?
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#64: August 21, 2019, 04:08:19 PM
Albatross, he is slowly taking notice of my feelings and preferences, but he is still rather unemotional and flat. He has energy with his roles in work and with his brother, but you can tell that it takes a lot out of him if we have contact for a length of time. He has to work at it.

He is desperate for a relationship with S16, but there has been a lot of damage there. I'm not sure what is going to happen there.

I can see that H is trying. I can also see that it is a monumental effort for him. I think it is the fear of not feeling anything that drives them into a panic and into replay........how awful to not have feelings for anything.......

I will have to look at Conway's steps again. Everything is coming together in hindsight as it often does.

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#65: August 21, 2019, 05:36:14 PM
Yes, the numb thing seems a common thread. Why do they think that blowing up their lives is the solution? Maybe MLC is just another self-medication way of dealing with depression. Not helpful though.

Have you looked at seeking ketamine therapy- it´s a supervised dosage and within hours the person feels better. The number of sessions is not much.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#66: October 08, 2019, 01:53:53 PM
FTT I have not heard of ketamine therapy.....isn't ketamine used as an animal tranquilizer?

Hmmmmmm, could be useful! Lol!  ;)

I have started therapy with a good counselor. At first I was going so I could deal with grief and guilt regarding my Mom and her situation, but we ended up talking more about H and our situation which resulted in many tears..........sigh. Does this ever end?

Anyway, just updating, this Thursday will be our 21 wedding anniversary......for what its worth. Not even sure he will remember.  :-\ We'll see. I will buy some champagne and toast by myself if I have to!  ::)  ;)
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#67: October 08, 2019, 04:46:18 PM
It´s a different form of ketamine:)

Happy Anniversary. You deserve a badge for sticking it out this long.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#68: October 08, 2019, 08:06:47 PM
SF, I stopped wondering what H would do for our anniversary during my marriage because the answer would normally be 'nothing'  >:(

I started taking control just so I wouldn't be disappointed and asking "What would you like to do for our anniversary?"  I would make sure I asked a few days ahead so he had time to think about it ::) Some men are romantic and then there are 'others'.

I found the disappointment too much so I stopped being disappointed by taking action.  I'd be thinking weeks ahead about what we might do, what I could do for him while he was clearly just forgetting about the day altogether. Too much for my heart to take each year :'(
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#69: October 09, 2019, 07:45:47 AM
Thank you FTT and SF

Ok, I was thinking elephant tranquilizer and the possibilities were interesting!  ;) ;D

SF I used to do that as well. This year I've lowered my expectations. I haven't said a word. Let the day go by. Its the same for romance in our relationship. Since his surgery, he has no desire for touch of any kind. Or perhaps its the deep depression he hasn't crawled up out of yet and the surgery is just a coincidence......either way it can be lonely. Don't get me wrong, there are still very satisfactory elements to our relationship but they are connecting on a more intellectual level than a physical one. I must admit I do miss the physical....... :(
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#70: October 09, 2019, 05:02:22 PM
There are so many ways around the physical SF, I am sure your H would be open to exploring if you brought up the subject.  It would certainly help his depression and being desired may make him feel like a real man again.

Maybe you could make some inquiries to see what's possible with some professionals who deal in that area.  It could be great for both of you.  As we know, not talking about stuff makes it worse.  He's probably afraid of failure and for you to gently encourage him, it may be something that helps him gain some more confidence.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#71: October 09, 2019, 06:04:41 PM
Hi SF, for what it's worth, Happy Anniversary. I know you are hoping for a miracle of acknowledgment here, but take heart. Jokes about H's forgetting anniversaries have been around for decades, so it won't be a MLC specific event if he doesn't acknowledge it. Maybe he IS becoming normal.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#72: October 09, 2019, 06:21:51 PM
Happy anniversary, Slow Fade.

FTT I have not heard of ketamine therapy.....isn't ketamine used as an animal tranquilizer?

It is, but in a much lower dosage and different type it is also used in depression with good results. Same for some psychedelic drugs - used only under medical supervision and in a clinical setting. Same for deep brain stimulation, it has excellent results for depression, even if not in everyone.


https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ketamine-for-major-depression-new-tool-new-questions-2019052216673 - Ketamine for major depression: New tool, new questions

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/behind-the-buzz-how-ketamine-changes-the-depressed-patients-brain/ - Ketamine for Depression: Clinical Evidence and Concerns

https://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/home/depression-advisor/ketamine-for-depression-clinical-evidence-and-concerns/ - Ketamine for Depression: Clinical Evidence and Concerns
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#73: October 10, 2019, 08:21:35 AM
Thank you SF, Learning and Anjae.

SF believe me I have tried. We have had some attempts, however even with enthusiasm and praise and encouragement, he has shut down. He is embarrassed and discouraged and so his solution is to just not do it. He claims that right now his whole mindset is that "he cares, but he doesn't care." If that's not MLC gibberish I don't know what is!  :P I'm encouraging him to go to his physician to be checked or helped for depression but he feels  that is weak and they are just drug peddlers in bed with pharmaceutical companies to get people's money. (Its frightening because these are his Mother's words almost verbatim. Channeling her from the grave!  :o ) He also thinks counselors are worthless and just take your money as well.  ::)

Learning you may have a point! Thank you for the anniversary wishes... ;D ;D ;D

Anjae thank you for the well wishes and the information, I'm looking forward to reading it. I never knew they used that drug for depression!

I am seeing a counselor now. I've been twice and I think its going to help. I initially went to talk about  my feelings of stress and guilt surrounding my Mom being diagnosed with Lewy Body disease and placed in an assisted living however we have veered into the situation with H and are delving into some deep issues there......Perhaps that was the greater level of stress bubbling under the surface after all....... :-\

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#74: October 10, 2019, 06:05:17 PM
SF, I do hope you make headway with the counselor. My xH also had no use for counseling. It's hard to have the guts to look deep inside yourself and admit you need to change. Also, my xH thought he was perfect and it was all my issues. Oh well, water under the bridge.

Stop beating yourself up about your mom. She has been well taken care of by you and she is still being cared for. You have NOT abandoned her.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#75: October 10, 2019, 07:03:14 PM
You're welcome, Slow Fade. Ketamine for depression usage is recent.

I hope the counselor is able to help you.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#76: October 13, 2019, 04:25:35 PM
He really does love sticking that head of his into the sand, doesn't he?  Maybe a gentle reminder that all we have been told in the past by our parents about doctors/psychologists/drugs etc., is stuff they probably heard from their parents and it's misinformation.  Copy out a couple of research papers on effectiveness of drugs,therapy and whatever else he is running from to show him he may be wrong and needs to rethink when he's told this negative information.

Good luck with him SF, he's being a lot childish.  Maybe if you turned things around and told him this problem is not all about him, that you have needs as well and expect him to seek some help.  Sounds like a bit of tough love is warranted!
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#77: December 17, 2019, 09:08:17 AM
Thank you SF......I've been away for a while on my own post. Life is weird and Christmas is around the corner and I don't know if I'm coming or going!

H is being supportive as he can, in his awkward zombie like way....... ::)

 Someone I thought was a good friend (co-worker) blasted me because I wasn't taking a sabbatical from work to be with my Mom 24/7. Told me how selfish I was and how I wasn't being a good daughter. Told me that she knew being at work was a lot of fun,  ??? but that I needed to be with her instead. Needless to say that work has been a little strained because of this.

On that note, Mom has taken a really, really bad turn for the worst since Thanksgiving.....constant hallucinations and delusions, trouble dressing herself, doesn't want to eat, thinks she is drinking but doesn't tip the glass or bottle back enough to get to the water, won't use a straw, is talking to her parents, her son and her Father in Law who have all passed......its heartbreaking. We are starting to discuss Hospice.

Sorry to be a downer but life is messy sometimes as we all know!

On a good note, S16 is seeing a new counselor who is a female. He had his first appointment yesterday and came out laughing and smiling! Yay! Apparently he is responding to a female more than a male.......who would have guessed!  ::) ;D Next appointment is Christmas Eve. I'm optimistic.

I hope everyone here has a very Merry Christmas, as least as much as you can. Know that I pray for the members here often.

Hugs to everyone!
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#78: December 17, 2019, 09:50:07 AM
Slow, I'm so sorry that your mother is getting worse, and that your coworker is making you feel guilty. Maybe she is projecting on you.

So wonderful to hear that your S came out of from his new counselor with a smile, that's absolutely wonderful for him and you. Maybe he sees a woman as someone he can trust, you know like you his mother.

Wishing you a very merry Christmas!
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#79: December 17, 2019, 03:16:07 PM
Reading this: http://www.crossingthecreek.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Crossing-the-Creek.pdf
helped SO much when my dad was in hospice. It relieved a lot of angst when he reached the point of not wanting to eat.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#80: January 16, 2020, 08:56:05 AM
Thank you Milly and FTT........this is a death by 1000 cuts.

Mom continues to decline to the point where I couldn't bring her home for Christmas. We took Christmas to her and she didn't even connect that it was a Holiday. It was an odd holiday as I really had to change my roll from how it has "always" been and step up into rolls that my Mom always had and it felt really, really weird.  :P H was a trooper and S16 didn't miss a beat.

Mom is now incontinent, inappropriate to the point of coming out of her room with no clothes on and thinks the people on the TV are real.........sadness. They are moving her to the memory care unit this week. There are more staff to care for things and less "shock" and agitation when people do the things she's doing now.

All of that to say that H actually expressed a desire to "fight" for me and step in when I was distraught and crying and he was frustrated that he was out of town at that time. This is a behavior I hadn't seen since before MLC. Nice to see the squirrel peeking his head out of the tunnel!  ;D

S16, soon to be S17, is still in counseling. They are teasing out that a lot of his angst is actually anxiety and panic attacks. Both his primary doctor and counselor are working hand in hand to address this issue. For now, we are focusing on cognitive behavior therapy with the therapist and holding any medical intervention in reserve if the CBT doesn't help. Now that S16 has been able to put a name to his feelings and finds that there are others out there who share the same burden (his Mom being one of them  ::) ) he is much calmer about talking about it and working through it as opposed to running away from it. 

Life is life.....its messy, its painful, its difficult, its beautiful, its twists and turns, highs and lows.......all being wove together into a beautiful tapestry that we won't be able to see in its entirety until we cross over into eternity.

Hugs to everyone! xxxxxxxx.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#81: January 16, 2020, 09:34:04 AM
Sorry to hear about the deterioration in your mother. It is a terrible disease. I started working at an adult day center about a year ago, and I have been there long enough now to see the decline in some of the participants.
 My mom also had Alzheimer's for 12 years.

Glad that they are figuring out some stuff for your son..and that hubby stepped up for you!!!!

Thanks for your update. prayers always for all of us.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#82: January 20, 2020, 03:43:28 PM
SF, I am sorry to hear of your mom's decline. It's a terrible thing to have to experience.

Great news that H has stepped up and S16 is making some headway with the counseling.

As my mom used to say, "It's a great life if you don't weaken".  Hang in there.
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Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#83: March 25, 2020, 08:28:11 AM
Thank you Learning and XYZCF.......

This virus sucks as I can't go and see my Mom. I talk to her on the phone, but that's not the same as a visit or an outing. She is confused and frightened as are most of the residents there. Its a horrible situation for everyone.  :'(

S17 had counseling again and he had quite a list of things he felt about himself and I won't go into them here, but he was able to take "victim" off of the list! Yay! He says he knows that what happened wasn't his fault in any way so he no longer feels like a victim of what happened. Progress...... ;D

Its been 8 years since BD..........how long does it take to work through the hurt, anger, betrayal? I don't know if we are stuck or just really slow at processing all of this!  :P
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Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#84: April 09, 2020, 08:27:44 AM
We had to put S17's cat down last night........the vet thought she either was in heart failure or that she had lung cancer. Anyway, she had only been out of sorts for a couple of days so it was kind of a shock. The vet said cats are amazingly good at hiding symptoms until its too late.

I've never heard S17 scream and sob the way he did as he was holding her in her last moments......poor kid.  :'( :'(  She was his light and companion. 
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#85: April 09, 2020, 11:32:03 AM
So sorry SlowFade, especially during this time. I feel so sorry for you son. xo
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#86: April 09, 2020, 11:39:03 AM
So sorry for S17. The loss of a pet is big. Shows he's a lovable boy. xxx
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#87: April 09, 2020, 11:44:05 AM
Big hugs to you both.  :'( 
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Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#88: May 05, 2020, 01:57:56 PM
Thank you XYZCF, Milly and R2T,

Nothing new on the home front. H's brother is moving to our neighborhood. Oh joy. Sigh. I was actually starting to take comfort and strength from being on my own when H is working. I hope this brother doesn't think I have an open door policy.......... :P
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#89: May 06, 2020, 04:40:58 AM
Thank you XYZCF, Milly and R2T,

Nothing new on the home front. H's brother is moving to our neighborhood. Oh joy. Sigh. I was actually starting to take comfort and strength from being on my own when H is working. I hope this brother doesn't think I have an open door policy.......... :P

That's easy... Then don't have an open door policy... He'll figure it out soon enough....
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#90: May 06, 2020, 10:16:25 AM
Thank you UM.......H's family wasn't ever one for boundaries!  :P

News on the home front regarding brother in laws move; seems he has found a house he likes better and is trying to void the deal on the one close to us! Thank goodness! The new house will be around 20 miles away. We won't be in the "drop in" zone!  ;D

One thing that hit me was that H was more upset about his brother's being near than I was. Could it be that H was a little jealous since H works out of town during the week and his Lothario brother would only be 8 miles away? Regardless of the fact that H should give me more credit than that, this is the first time since we reconciled that he has demonstrated those type of feelings towards me. Wow.  ???

And H actually remembered Mother's Day and is planning on fixing me dinner. Wow. I'm impressed.  ;)
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#91: June 01, 2020, 10:14:43 AM
Movement and improvement!

The Mother's Day card H got for me was beautiful. It wasn't from S17, it was all H. I was moved.
He also took me to pick out a surprise early birthday gift. A brand new battery operated, high powered, weed trimmer! I'm a gardening person so I was thrilled to be able to get a new one as my electric ones were on their last legs! Now I won't be fettered by an extension cord and can take this new one all over our property! I know I'm weird, but he knew I wanted one and he actually let me pick out the one I wanted instead of just buying one he thought would be good (and that I probably would have trouble using!) I cannot reciprocate monetarily for his birthday (same day as mine) but I will put some thought into what I can do. ( bake favorite treats, cookies, etc.)

On the Mom front, she is getting worse in her aggressive behaviors and they will be trying to find a new living facility for her. Unfortunately she may be a couple of hours away.....I video chat with her and she is in a constant delusion or hallucination. She is lost. How do you deal with a Mom who isn't your Mom any longer? My heart is broken.  :'(
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#92: June 01, 2020, 11:23:15 AM
Quote
She is lost. How do you deal with a Mom who isn't your Mom any longer? My heart is broken.  :'(

I'm sorry, SF. I know it breaks your heart just a little more every time you experience the Not Mum. Tbh I found it not unlike MLC h in a way, probably easier actually. I respond to who she is now and I always remember that some small part of my Mum is in there. We have loved each other for over 50 years and I believe the love can be felt even when everything else goes. Which makes it hard that I can't see her at all right now bc of the virus restrictions. And I have had odd patches, always out of the blue, when my Mum pops up for a few minutes or an hour even if they are rare sightings.
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#93: June 01, 2020, 11:26:00 AM
Thank you Treasure. It is very hard when you can't go and see them and have eyeballs on the staff at various times of the week. She is locked away not only in her mind, but in her body as well. Hopefully the restrictions will lift and I can go and visit in person again.

I just hope we can find a good facility not too far away for her.
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#94: June 12, 2020, 09:05:15 AM
Still looking for a facility for Mom. Hospice has now degraded her condition to Stage 4 Lewy Body Dementia.....They advised me that she probably won't last the year. Its hard to wrap your mind around that. Every phone call I receive at an odd hour I expect to be bad news.   :(

Brother-In-Law and wayward family are moving to our area. They had some kind of issue with their closing so they are currently camped out in my backyard. Him, his daughter, her 3 year old daughter, his 18 year old son and his 18 year old grandson....the two boys have bullied my S17 in the past and they trigger S17's anxiety and he's having panic attacks again.   >:( They have been in trouble with gangs, they drink, they do drugs and they have been tormenting my S17 and acting like Eddie Haskells when I'm around.

I put my foot down and told them they couldn't hang out in the house due to Covid issues, they could use the restroom and shower but could only come in one at a time and were to leave as soon as they were finished. I also told H that I was not feeding 8 people every night since my hands are full with S17, my full time job and my Mom. They are staying in our toy hauler which has a fridge and a microwave and cable tv. That should be good enough.  It was only supposed to be for 2 days and is now going on for a week. Shoot me now!

Today is my birthday, H's birthday and Sunday is Father's Day.....Not sure how we are going to do any celebrating and still maintain social distance!  :o :-\ :P
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#95: June 12, 2020, 11:32:14 AM
Happy Birthday Slow! Sorry about the relatives camping out with no leaving date. I hope you get through the three big days with lots of moments of pleasure. xxx
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#96: June 12, 2020, 07:02:51 PM
Happy Birthday. Hope you managed to find some true bday joyous parts of the day.

The in-law event makes regular ole lockdown look like a picnic. And this too shall pass...

The Moms´Day card sounds quite promising.

Hugs,
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#97: June 15, 2020, 07:46:20 AM
Today is my birthday, H's birthday and Sunday is Father's Day.....Not sure how we are going to do any celebrating and still maintain social distance!  :o :-\ :P

Happy Birthday (belated)!  How you celebrate and maintain social distancing?

I'm thinkin' this might convince the trepassers to stay away....
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#98: June 22, 2020, 08:53:52 AM
Thank you Milly, FTT and Ursa! It was a nice birthday in spite of everything.

Ursa I LOVE that meme. I need to find a dress like that. I already have a bat!  ;)

If you can believe it, the in-laws are STILL here. Somehow 2 or 3 days has morphed into 21! These people have used our new toy hauler RV more than we have!

You can certainly see the FOO issues in this family. (not that there aren't any in mine, but I digress! 8) ) I have never seen a more entitled, self-serving lot in my life. S17 and I have basically been hiding out in the house after work so as not to have to entertain or be imposed upon by the hoard that have invaded. If my closing had morphed past a few days, I would seriously have considered a hotel or even a VRBO. Brother-in-law went right out and spent $10,000 on a boat so I know he had the money. Its just easier to squat on our property and utilize  free wifi, cable TV, and rent! They are also paying $60/day to park a full u haul in the yard. Why not rent a storage unit for a couple of months and save about $1200? Oh wait, then they would have to unload and load it up again.  :o  Boo, hoo.   >:(   (The money they are spending on that could have gone to a nice vacation rental for the month. I just don't get it. )

He has a S18 and a GS 18 who have no direction in life other than to be the next huge rap artist. Oh wait! Now that they have a boat, they are going to be professional water-skiers! (once they learn how to water ski I guess.  ??? ) These boys don't drive and are chauffeured around by their sister and her baby.

I MUST be on candid camera, right? I've just never seen anything like it.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#99: June 22, 2020, 04:09:07 PM
"Squatters" the next reality TV series. Yours falls under the "you can´t make this $h!tee up" category. Copyright the idea and pitch it to Hollywood. I´m sure your in-laws would be willing to come back to film it all over again.
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#100: June 23, 2020, 03:19:11 AM
"Squatters" the next reality TV series. Yours falls under the "you can´t make this $h!tee up" category. Copyright the idea and pitch it to Hollywood.

Seriously!

I'm thinking an ultimatum on when they are to depart might be on order....
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#101: June 23, 2020, 07:54:59 AM
FTT and Ursa you made my day. I love starting a day with laughter!

I just found out they are leaving on Thursday. We are counting down the minutes! Between them and my MLC'r stating that one of the reasons he left was because the dog was too fat, I may have something I could pitch!!!  ;D ;D ;D

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Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#102: October 15, 2020, 10:02:51 AM
Wow has it been this long since I posted on my own thread? If this isn't my latest thread I apologize. I lurk and post on others, but have been remiss on my own since its been like watching paint dry!

Thank you Rose, S17 is doing better. Counseling and prayer and lots of talking has helped him out. We are moving forward. He is online schooling his senior year and he really likes it. He has a "girlfriend" online whom I have met and talked to, and also have spoken with her parents as well. They are like two peas in a pod. The only issue is that she lives in Nebraska and we live in Idaho!  ??? :-\ ;D  We are planning a trip there next summer if they are still a thing so they can meet in person. Interesting times these days!

Anyway just wanted to update and let everyone know that 8 years after BD......8 long years.....and 5 years after reconciliation.....H bought me a wonderful card for our anniversary which was Saturday. Could have knocked me over with a feather. I didn't remind him, I didn't mention it, I didn't even get him a card. Wow. Maybe he is coming out of the fog after all......Its a long, long process.....but there is light at the end of the tunnel if the LBD decides to wait that long and if the MLC'r doesn't burn everything down in the meantime. Those are two totally unpredictable and unknowable if's........do what is best for you as an LBS.......muster your strength and live your life. Its the best gift you can give to your children and to yourself.

I don't know who needed to hear this, this wasn't what I started to type , but the words just flowed. Weird.

Hugs and blessings to everyone in these unprecedented times we are living in now.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#103: October 15, 2020, 10:08:46 AM
Thanks for the update, Slow. Nice to hear things keep improving for you and that S is doing well.
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#104: October 15, 2020, 01:37:45 PM
A very nice update and it makes me happy to read . And it is very hard to imagine ..8 loooong years.  Who could even begin to understand how long this takes. I believe it.  I am pleased that some happiness and peace has come your way. Richly deserved .
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The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

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#105: October 16, 2020, 08:40:21 AM
Thank you for the support. Just when you think things are settling down life throws you a major curve ball.

I got test results back and they informed me that I have endometrial cancer. They are sending me to an OB oncologist. I don't even have words. I had the same biopsy three years ago and it was negative.  I don't even know what to feel, so many emotions swirling around in my mind...... :'(
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#106: October 16, 2020, 08:51:36 AM
Love, hugs, and prayers!
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#107: October 16, 2020, 08:58:54 AM
Here for you, SF. So sorry to hear this.
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#108: October 16, 2020, 09:00:47 AM
I am so sorry to hear that news, SF. You must be reeling, maybe even with some old BD like feelings, idk.
You are in our thoughts and prayers and we will be here to listen (and give you virtual hugs) whatever you want to share xxx
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#109: October 16, 2020, 10:28:43 AM
So sorry about the crappy news. Though this is the LBS site, since you´ve been here a long time, I hope you feel like you can seek support here. ACOR.org is a great resource when starting a cancer journey- though in some ways it works better for a close relative or friend to use it instead of the patient as it takes a lot of time, energy and emotional energy to use.
Hugs,
FTT
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#110: October 16, 2020, 11:02:15 AM
Here for you SF xx
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#111: October 16, 2020, 05:17:24 PM
Slow Fade,

Sorry to hear your news. Praying that the Lord guide the doctors to help you be restored to full health.

((((Hugs))))
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#112: October 16, 2020, 05:28:21 PM
Big hugs and prayers, SF.
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"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

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#113: October 16, 2020, 06:52:49 PM
I am so sorry SF and will be keeping you in my prayers....life just seems to take these turns and it's hard. xo
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

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#114: October 17, 2020, 06:31:18 AM
Sending you love SF

Rose 🌹
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Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#115: October 17, 2020, 01:31:27 PM
Sending you a big hug and lots of strength, Slow, to face and get through this extremely difficult new challenge. We are here for you. x
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Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#116: October 17, 2020, 01:48:04 PM
Thank you for the support. Just when you think things are settling down life throws you a major curve ball.

I got test results back and they informed me that I have endometrial cancer. They are sending me to an OB oncologist. I don't even have words. I had the same biopsy three years ago and it was negative.  I don't even know what to feel, so many emotions swirling around in my mind...... :'(

Sorry to hear your diagnosis SF.  I just had to deal with my mother (63yrs old) finding out she had the same cancer, back in February.  The results came AFTER she had a hysterectomy, and they confirmed there were cells found in the biopsy.   Thankfully, it didn't penetrate any tissue and was contained to her uterus.   

I'm not sure the circumstances of your diagnosis and I hope it was caught early enough - that form of cancer seems to be the most forgiving and treatable.   I'll send a prayer out for your health and recovery.
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#117: October 17, 2020, 09:50:33 PM
Slow Fade while I can provide no reassurance without knowing the details of the biopsy, I can tell you that many types and stages of endometrial CA are curable. Things are going to be okay. Just have them explain everything to you in detail.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#118: October 18, 2020, 01:20:33 AM
So sorry to hear your news SF.  Really hope it has been caught early. As lj has mentioned, many have a very good outcome when caught early.  Sending love, hugs and prayers, kikki
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#119: October 19, 2020, 09:18:36 AM
Thank you everyone for the prayers and good thoughts.   :-* :-*  I will take all I can get. A Cancer diagnosis is much like bomb drop; everything stops and your mind goes numb. Fear is a constant companion at this point. LBS diet is in full force.......seems very familiar!  :P ;)

I did talk more with my doctor and she said that the pathologist staged the cancer cells at stage 1 which is good news. Bad news is that they won't know if there has been any spread until pathology results after the surgery.

Stage 1 is great, but I'm nervous about the surgery as well. I'm feeling my mortality....... :(
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#120: October 19, 2020, 10:01:24 AM
SF, glad to hear that what your doc knows so far is good news. Adding my good thoughts to those of the group. You have shown such strength navigating the challenges of the LBS journey. I hope that the surgery confirms that the disease was in an early stage and that all goes well in your recovery.
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#121: October 19, 2020, 11:59:43 AM
I'm sorry to hear about this SF. Stage 1 is definitely good news but I completely understand the fears about surgery and then waiting for path.  I will keep you in my prayers.
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#122: October 19, 2020, 01:38:05 PM
Hello,

Just sending prayers your way and know you are in my thoughts.

((((((Hugs)))))) and more (((((Hugs)))))

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#123: October 19, 2020, 01:44:05 PM
Slow, so glad the news so far, stage 1, is good. I bet you're scared, who wouldn't be. But this initial diagnosis is good and that makes it pretty good so far. I don't want to undermine in any way what you are facing, it's huge of course, just wanting to focus on today's news because we never know what the future has in store. We learnt this at BD. Sending you hugs and support. x 
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OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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#124: October 19, 2020, 05:09:10 PM
I'm just one more person letting you know you're in my prayers.
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Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019
Divorce final - September 2019
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My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11537.new#new

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#125: October 20, 2020, 02:37:16 PM
Thank you everyone. I can feel the positive energy all around. Thank you so much.  :-* :-* :-*

Surgery is scheduled for November 2nd. I'm still numb. Out of work for a month. Not the kind of vacation I really wanted!  :P
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#126: October 20, 2020, 05:28:53 PM
Having a plan makes a huge difference and at least allows the spin to slow down. Give yourself a lot of slack- it takes 6 weeks to fully rebound just from anesthesia. I dearly hope your h is coming to the fore to take over a lot of responsibilities and is offering emotional support- rather than being more scared for himself than for you. Sending warm fuzzy thoughts your way, FTT
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Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#127: October 21, 2020, 08:08:17 AM
Thank you FTT.

H is stepping up. He will be here for the first week to take care of things. Then I have a wonderful son and some friends who will go from there.  I feel bad that I won't be able to visit my Mom for a bit. We will have to try zoom visits, but those haven't always been successful with her lately. She sets the device down and wanders off!  ::)

I think God is telling me in no uncertain terms to slow down. I've been trying to do everything for everyone.......nothing like a slap upside the head to get your attention! ;D ;)
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#128: October 21, 2020, 07:46:37 PM
Sending you good thoughts. 
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After all, tomorrow is another day.

 

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