Author Topic: My Story Reconnecting Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light  (Read 3478 times)

Offline Nerissa

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My Story Reconnecting Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2019, 06:03:34 AM »
And this really is the source of my extreme frustration and reactivity many many times ( I am working on that ...still). I have such a horrible time with " time passing, just waiting , hoping for change " with no concrete action on either side. I have asked my husband many times ..."what is the solution? What is the action you intend to take? What can YOU do to change ? What will I commit to ?". Answers and change do not knock at the front door and hand you the gift of change, nor does it fall from the sky. What "actions" can we put in place to change this dynamic?. I am NOT content to just let time pass in a very painful limbo waiting for years to see if someone "wants me or wants his family". But that is me and my attachment style being tested as well

I spent a long time, first living with H who’s was uncommitted and then waiting and dating and inviting him for family occasions which he was happy to join but he remained undecided.

During all this time I would stuff  my feelings and then blow up every few weeks or else beg or try to explain how wrong he was etc.  After each ‘mistake’ I would berate myself - if only I was more emotionally mature it had more self control he would have stayed.  He encouraged this belief - if only I would change...yet part of the reason I couldn’t stop was because I considered myself feminist and could not, at an observers perspective, best to see myself treated so unfairly or act so pathetically.

It was when I started seeing my current therapist that I realised I wasn’ t making a mistake.  I explained that I had felt I could accommodate an mlc spouse by detaching and waiting but that I’d failed.  Her reply surprised me a bit.  She remarked that she didn’t think I was someone who could live long term with someone who didn’t really love me.  That she felt it would be insuooortable for me to live like this and so of course I lost my temper.  She said it was ok.  That to be otherwise would mean loving inauthentically and without being truly integrated .  (This is to do with me and my character, not anyone else who reads this).

I think we do need to disabuse ourselves of the idea that this is simply a stage, and like a butterfly from a chrysalis, our partners will be restored and transformed.  My T says very clearly that the monster we see is not an alien that has taken over our spouses , but part of who they are .Their shadow side which they may not have realised they had.

Then we have to really ask ourselves if what we are given is enough.  Perhaps it is, depending on our own characters and circumstances.  But perhaps we stay simply out of fear or from lack of being able to imagine a new life.  Both are true of me.  But like Maleficent in her thread,  I see where the red flags were from the start, but they were not big enough while life worked well for us as a couple.

Offline Nerissa

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2019, 06:05:41 AM »
I have a good relationship with my daughter and son in law.....these MLCer's are missing so much as they remain stuck in their cave, even if they wish to escape it...something is holding them back.

It is a sad reality for them, why I am grateful to be the LBSer rather than the MLCer.


I agree so much with this.  And the literature in the topic concurs - it says that the avoidant are not happy and crave intimacy.  They are just unaware and/or unable to do it.

Online Treasur

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2019, 07:16:37 AM »
Sounds like a useful book
Although I no longer do MLC or R reading lol.

My default style is Secure...this bit of life experience rocketed me into Anxious. to be fair, I lost all my primary attachments simultaneously. I have no desire yet to replace them so I suspect I am still a WiP but it is my default so I'll get there  ;) My h was Anxious, I suspect...now? No idea...probably the same but just attached to someone else?

but my home base is Secure. And a big shift for me was when I knew beyond doubt in 2017 that no matter how much I tried to tell myself otherwise and no matter how much I had loved my h or enjoyed how he had loved me, I could simply never feel safe or valued by him again. No words or actions would change that. And it was reasonable and healthy for me to feel that way.  Didn't need to be angry or blaming about it, it was just true. I did feel safe and valued; then his behaviour changed and that changed how I saw him. It was the cruelty I think that was the killer app for me. I would rather be alone than in a relationship in which I did not feel safe to be myself, warts and all.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 07:17:52 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Slow FadeTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2019, 09:09:20 AM »
Wow! So much wonderful insight from everyone. I'm overwhelmed! Thank you, thank you. You've all given me a lot to think about.

Anjae and Barbiedoll you have both written things that have made me very thoughtful and I agree with both of you (if that's possible, but then I am a Gemini so there is that dual nature!  ;) )

Anjae I really thought I was prepared to hear the answers to those questions, good or bad. I just thought he was a little further along in his journey, but I guess I was wrong. As to hearing the details of the affair, I don't have a choice. S16 is voicing his issues in therapy and requests that I be there...... :(
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In my view as a former MLCer, your husband is right. He needs to think about it to be able to reply to you in a way you understand. He had/has a MLC, he is still not fully out of it - out of Replay and fully out of MLC are different things. He is being considerated. He is taking time to think how to reply to you.
Thank you, this resonated with me. You are right......

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.SF spouse has been 4 years and cannot answer a question regarding his intention for the future. Does he intend to stay in the marriage or not?. Perhaps I am simplifying ...but just firetruck that . Sorry...no really, I am sorry. But the misery , mental and emotional torture on us and then our children?   And he needs more "time" to say whether or not he wants a "future with his family". Have I got that wrong? I just could not accept that . The cost is too high.
Barbiedoll have you been reading my mind?  ;D ;D ;D

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So, if you want to stand, can you stand differently so the unanswered or unknown is less relevant? 
Good question Treasure........

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Were they signs of an early return with good intentions and  now he is in limbo?  Has he really been through liminality?
Spot on SongandDance.....I need to go back and reflect. I think I need to journal a bit and see where that takes me.

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Praying that these walls come down and you are able to connect as a couple and family.
  Thank you dear Mitzpah. You are in my prayers often as well.

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With much prayer, with much contemplation and time, slowly I let go of what I think should happen and ultimately turn things over to God. From this, I have found peace and joy in a life that is not what I choose.
  Dear XYCZF...thank you for reminding me where my focus needs to be in my life! Bless you.

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My T says very clearly that the monster we see is not an alien that has taken over our spouses , but part of who they are .Their shadow side which they may not have realised they had.
I can see this. I think we all have this side. Scary.

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I knew beyond doubt in 2017 that no matter how much I tried to tell myself otherwise and no matter how much I had loved my h or enjoyed how he had loved me, I could simply never feel safe or valued by him again. No words or actions would change that.
  I think S16 is here. I haven't spoken that thought out loud myself, but I have muddled it in my brain in the wee hours of the morning when I can't sleep.

Lots to think about. I am going to check out that book. Thank you again everyone. That's why I come here. I hope that as we slog through this mess, the newbies will be able to see that it takes time, it takes grit and it takes growth to get through this. Stander or not, we all have to deal and heal. Turn away from the MLC'r and turn inward in order to become your best self. Do not define your life or your happiness based upon someone else's actions. You make the choices in the end for your best life.........
Married 18
BD April 2012
Left home Nov 2012
Home May 2016

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2019, 09:44:51 AM »
I have not read Attached but just wanted to mention. My therapist suggested it for me to understand what my attachment style is. Her work with me was 99% all about me, rarely did she comment on my husband. Although the book can also help understand, her emphasis was and always has been on my growth and health.

It is so good to be able to have this discussion.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Anjae

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2019, 01:35:23 PM »
Slow Fade, I find it very possible to agree both with myself and Barbie.  :)

The thing with some MLCers is that they can return relatively quickly, however, they may take longer than the time they were away to be able to commit and/or answer in a way that is satisfactory to the LBS.

Lets hope your husband is using his time to properly think how to answer you in a manner you can understand. Still, try to prepare yourself for his replies not making sense to you. They may and may be great, but it is not a given.


I understand have to hear about details of the affair because son request you to be there. When my cousin who had MLC (no affair, no leaving, he was a wallower) hit bottom, he start to see a friend of mine who is a psychiatrist. He always wanted someone there with him. It was usually me. His mum and his partner couldn't manage it. It was the worst experience of my life, BD and all that come with it included. I should had not been there, listening to things that did not pertain to me. I tended to blocked by reading or staring out of the window.

Now I don't recall much, if anything, my cousin said on those appointments. Which is good and he does not have a clue what he talked about by then.


I never did MLC or R reading, MLC articles aside. I did neuroscience and neurobiology reading and did courses on those subjects. Relationship reading is, in my view, sort of useless. MLC has nothing to do with the relationship or marriage.

Both mine and Mr J's default attachment style is secure. MLC changes people and MLCers tend to become the opposite of who they were.

As for it not being an alien that took over, but the shadow. I would say it can be mixed, but often it is something never seen before, not even by the MLCer. It is also depression. Depression is not shadow in the psychological sense. I knew Mr J's shadow and he always said he had a Darth Vader side = dark side. He even said so to OW1, letting her know she was only getting is nice side. His normal shadow is nothing like the MLC monster. There is no comparison.

My shadow, if I go with my MLC, is quite nice. I was a very nice MLCer compared to most and don't recall monstering at anyone. Well, maybe a little at Mr J, but it is hard to know if it was because he was being an anwful MLCer or because I was having a mild MLC. My monstering was equivalent to when a non-MLC person gets angry. It is quite rare I become angry, angry. 
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Albatross

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2019, 08:49:23 AM »
How is gong SF ? :)

Offline Slow FadeTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2019, 09:08:26 AM »
Thank you for asking Albatross.

Things are moving at a glacial pace (except where S16 is concerned, he's growing up way too fast for my taste!  :o )

I did finally get an answer from H regarding his feelings. On our last family vacation, while we were on the road, I was asking him questions just to pass the time. I always love good conversation so I will pick a topic and see where it goes. ( I know, call me a nerd now!  ::) ) I asked him who his hero was. Once we managed to define what a "hero" was outside of the comic book realm, he really blew me away by naming our Pastor as his hero.  :o :o :o  This was the man my H looked in the face and told a bold face lie to early on in MLC. No wonder he doesn't want to renew our vows! The shame must be overwhelming.

I did corner my H on the questions I posed to him and he finally told me that "He cares, but he doesn't care." That he really doesn't "feel" anything anymore. I asked him about attraction to women and he said "Not really. I don't feel anything." I asked if he was attracted to any other women he saw besides me and he said "No". I asked him about our future and he said it was too difficult to even think about the future, that he was just making it through one day at a time. Oddly enough, this was comforting to me and explains a lot about his behavior.

We discussed his surgery and the possibility that hormones may need to be adjusted and we talked about depression and its manifestations. He was open and he promised to talk to the doctor about both of those issues.

After this conversation our relationship has been much better. I've been more relaxed and he's been more chatty and looks happier. I guess it had been weighing on him as much as its been weighing on me.

Is he at rock bottom? I don't know. Is he still in MLC? I would say yes. Am I going to abandon him at this time? No. Not any more than I would abandon any spouse with a traumatic brain injury. For better or worse here I am. What does the future hold? Well, I always have hope and no one knows what may happen anyway.

Right now we are where we are. I'm in the midst of fighting a very bad vole infestation in my yard and its getting personal with the little buggers!  >:( >:(  I've tried to be nice, now I may have to bring out the big guns! No one messes with my landscaping and gets away with it!  ;D
Married 18
BD April 2012
Left home Nov 2012
Home May 2016

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2019, 11:49:30 AM »
It is helpful slowfade for you to post this. It helps that your husband is able to put into words that he cannot feel.

I think this is very true in MLC as they look for something that will allow them to feel anything.

I do not think my husband can even feel that he cannot feel  :'(
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline serenity

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2019, 12:43:03 PM »
Thank you Slow Fade for confirming what we’ve already been told about the MLCer feeling nothing

All very hard for you to cope with but maybe it will bring you some comfort knowing he’s not deliberately trying to hurt you or be distant from you

X

 

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