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Author Topic: My Story Reconnecting Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light

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My Story Reconnecting Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#40: July 25, 2019, 11:29:50 AM
Thank you XYCZF. I think it is definitely some kind of brain damage or emotional damage or mental illness......something.

Don't feel sad for us. S16 and I are getting help and support. We are pulling ourselves up and addressing our pain and abandonment. We have God and he will take us where we need to go. Philipians 4: 6-7.

I feel sad for H who is missing out on a wonderful family. How much fun could we have if H was engaged? S16 and I go to the movies and go here and there and we laugh and joke and have a wonderful time. And H cannot manage to share in any of that. S16 said even when he goes, he looks miserable and as if he doesn't want to be there.........he's right.

Maybe S16 is a little more right about things than I am...........

I don't mind (too much for now) if we live as roommates. I just want the bottom line so I can adjust my expectations to match. I'm tired of always being disappointed. I'm worth more than that. I have more to give than that.

I know H cannot carry on a physical affair due to ED issues from prostate surgery, but that doesn't mean he isn't having an emotional one.

I still feed bound by my Faith and my Vows. I will stand. I just want to know WHERE I stand right now.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#41: July 25, 2019, 05:01:15 PM
We have had many tears and things are coming out that are HUGE triggers for me. Things I didn't know about the affair....... :P

May I ask if it is necessary for you to know things about the affair you did not know? Especially, if I understand currectly, coming from your son?

I got crickets...........then I got "Well I'll have to think about it so I can formulate a response that you will understand." I was like  ??? ??? ???

Now I'm wondering if we even have a future...... :(

In my view as a former MLCer, your husband is right. He needs to think about it to be able to reply to you in a way you understand. He had/has a MLC, he is still not fully out of it - out of Replay and fully out of MLC are different things. He is being considerated. He is taking time to think how to reply to you.

As for you. You should only had asked those questions if you were certain you were ready to whatever answer. Expecting the answers to be something that would go the way you want/expect does not make much sense, does it?

A LBS must never, ever, ask a MLCer anything unless you the LBS is ready for whatever answer the MLCer may, or may not have. What a LBS can do is say something like, this is not working for me. And the been willing to follow suit with whatever the LBS thinks is better for themselves.

I often see reconnecting LBS on HS going on the MLCer too soon with a certain type of question(s) because LBS do not understand MLCers require time and space to process all they have done. Don't get me wrong, with such a long time MLCer as Mr J, I would love the man to just end Replay and be fully done with his crisis. Never going to happen.

I am not certain I understand why you are hurt. You put your husband very difficult questions (for a MLCer). The fact he is going to think how to answer you in a way you may understand speaks volumes.

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#42: July 25, 2019, 05:30:40 PM
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I am not certain I understand why you are hurt.
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I understand 100 % why you are hurt, if not very angry. But I guess hurt is part of anger. I get that MLC men, re-play etc etc  takes a very VERY long time. I do. BUT is everyone else less important? Is everyone else's life less significant or their pain to continue to give "space" to an undecided MLC'er?. Why is priviledge granted at the cost of suffering of so many others? I just do not get it in some cases...not at all. Now, if I have this correct....SF spouse has been 4 years and cannot answer a question regarding his intention for the future. Does he intend to stay in the marriage or not?. Perhaps I am simplifying ...but just firetruck that . Sorry...no really, I am sorry. But the misery , mental and emotional torture on us and then our children?   And he needs more "time" to say whether or not he wants a "future with his family". Have I got that wrong? I just could not accept that . The cost is too high. Maybe , just maybe..we mollycoddle some of these men with being advised to ask nothing, expect nothing, etc. I am not stirring up anything, not trying to be trouble and poke people ...I am only speaking for myself. If my husband could not commit to his future intention ... he is out. He just cannot continue to put so many people thru life altering misery ...especially our children. MLC or not ...my husband would be getting the firetruck out before the sun  sets. And you do not see how this is upsetting Angae?? 
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#43: July 26, 2019, 12:44:28 AM
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You should only had asked those questions if you were certain you were ready to whatever answer. Expecting the answers to be something that would go the way you want/expect does not make much sense, does it?

Harsh though this response may seem I agree with Anjae.   Asking questions to an MLCer never brings the response you are looking for. 
I found this out when I asked H those months ago as to where we were and what I wanted from a marriage.  That's when he said that he didn't think he could provide that kind of commitment or was even ready to. 

However I do understand why you are hurt - it's been 4 years since reconnecting and 7 since BD. You'd think he'd be closer to the end of the tunnel by now.  Well maybe the first year of reconnection wasn't reconnection - maybe it was an early return.  Much as we are advised not to stagewatch - look back at H's actions and words four years ago.  Were they signs of an early return with good intentions and  now he is in limbo?  Has he really been through liminality?

Once H had dealt me the mini mini blow of not answering the question the way I had hoped for, I re-read RCR's articles again and realised that he was on the edge of liminality (lots of sleeping and other stuff) -I had asked way too soon.  Perhaps your H is just sitting there on the edge. He thinks he knows what he wants but he's frightened to commit because he doesn't want to hurt you again but his depression is telling him that he can only protect himself.

That however doesn't help you unless you are prepared to continue your stand. In which case and frustratingly time time time.....Urgh!
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#44: July 26, 2019, 01:07:35 AM
I am assuming that you want to continue standing, and that is your choice.
Your hurt and doubt is entirely understandable as is your son's anger and hurt.
But doesn't change that your h is where he is...which seems to be some kind of semi-detached living in the present that feels ok enough for him to carry on doing it.
I suspect that 'knowing where you stand' either needs to be based on in front of you currently or not contingent on any input about the future from your h.
So, if you want to stand, can you stand differently so the unanswered or unknown is less relevant? So that 'knowing where you stand' is entirely about you and nothing to do with him including if it never changes from how it is right now? And as well as the emotional issues, are there any practical risks or concerns if the m/h you have today is the one you will have in 2 years or 5 or 10?

No judgement from me. I am not a stander as my situation was quite different.
I think standers get to wrestle with different issues as do those in reconnection while non-standers tussle with the consequences of letting go and a life without their spouse. Neither is easier...just different.
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 01:10:24 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#45: July 26, 2019, 01:17:08 AM
I wonder if it is depression or avoidant attachment with a number of these spouses?

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/avoidant-attachment-part-1-dependence-dilemma-0201184

https://jebkinnison.com/bad-boyfriends-the-book/type-dismissive-avoidant/

And are a good many of us anxiously attached?  Or generally securely attached but get tipped into anxious attachment by our spouses actions?

https://www.theschooloflife.com/thebookoflife/why-anxious-and-avoidant-partners-find-it-hard-to-leave-one-another/

There is a very good book that explains relationships in terms of attachment styles. It’s called ‘Attached’ and is by Levine and Heller.  It isn’t just one more self help book - they know what they are writing about.

If one partner is, at base, avoidant, then it is possible to manage a relationship long term, but it will mean very significant compromises on the part of the securely/anxiously attached whose needs won’t be properly met if the avoidant isn’t willing to try to change their style in reciprocation. This might be ok if there are compelling reasons to keep the relationship.    They don’t suggest that time alone will help.

Levine and Heller have a useful list of distancing behaviors (also called deactivating strategies):

 • Saying (or thinking) “I’m not ready to commit”—but staying together nonetheless, sometimes for years.
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 01:35:30 AM by Nerissa »

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#46: July 26, 2019, 01:54:09 AM
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So, if you want to stand, can you stand differently so the unanswered or unknown is less relevant? So that 'knowing where you stand' is entirely about you and nothing to do with him including if it never changes from how it is right now?

Bang on as always Treasur and this spoke volumes to me too. 
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#47: July 26, 2019, 05:28:17 AM

I suspect that 'knowing where you stand' either needs to be based on in front of you currently or not contingent on any input about the future from your h.
So, if you want to stand, can you stand differently so the unanswered or unknown is less relevant? So that 'knowing where you stand' is entirely about you and nothing to do with him including if it never changes from how it is right now?



I agree SlowFade, I can understand the hurt, after all he is home, you would think that something more solid would be in place, not this kind of limbo feeling or detachment :(

It must be very frustrating.

Praying that these walls come down and you are able to connect as a couple and family.
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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#48: July 26, 2019, 05:42:02 AM
I do believe that many ( if not all) have a very deep avoidant attachment style as Nerissa points out. Just a great post!  I am in that trap . He is very avoidant ( anxious/avoidant) and I am the pursuer . One is seeking a closer intimacy and one is distancing . We have studies the book Attached and have it as an audio book that we refer back to when needed. It is an excellent source of understanding this painful dynamic and a very helpful read. We have studies parts with our therapist and my H clearly understands and accepts that he has been avoidant thru out our marriage ...well, his entire life for the most part. It is his attachment style formed in childhood as is mine. To live in this dynamic is extrodinarily difficult but very common ( I am told) .

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If one partner is, at base, avoidant, then it is possible to manage a relationship long term, but it will mean very significant compromises on the part of the securely/anxiously attached whose needs won’t be properly met if the avoidant isn’t willing to try to change their style in reciprocation. This might be ok if there are compelling reasons to keep the relationship.    They don’t suggest that time alone will help.
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Indeed, I have faced that there are "very significant comprimises to be made by the anxiously attached" and I believe this 100%. I feel it and sometimes it is just overwhelming and frustratingly painful. But atleast understanding what is happening is incredibly helpful. This book answered many questions that I have struggled with for years. And H says the same . It will be extremely difficult to change without education, counselling and a determination to do so.

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They don’t suggest that time alone will help.
.

And this really is the source of my extreme frustration and reactivity many many times ( I am working on that ...still). I have such a horrible time with " time passing, just waiting , hoping for change " with no concrete action on either side. I have asked my husband many times ..."what is the solution? What is the action you intend to take? What can YOU do to change ? What will I commit to ?". Answers and change do not knock at the front door and hand you the gift of change, nor does it fall from the sky. What "actions" can we put in place to change this dynamic?. I am NOT content to just let time pass in a very painful limbo waiting for years to see if someone "wants me or wants his family". But that is me and my attachment style being tested as well. I have made room in my emotional life to accommodate his struggles with being avoidant and I do understand how deep this avoidant nature is and where it came from. But it has destroyed so many things and in my opinion avoidants will be the larger percentage that suffer MLC breakdowns. Imagine the resentments, anger, discontent they have stacked up by avoiding every issue, every hurt, avoiding asking for what they need, always being "fine" when they are not, being angry and denying it etc etc. How could they NOT explode t some point in life stuffing EVERYTHING and sharing nothing. learning about attachment styles has been my greatest teacher in understanding my H. And of course, myself. Inaction is not an acceptable solution speaking only for myself. An avoidant person is living in extreme pain as is his partner. No one wants to live this way ...

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The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Re: Sometimes Darkness Can Show You The Light
#49: July 26, 2019, 05:54:57 AM
My therapist also recommended and discussed "Attached" with me. I have the book but have yet to read it. But I can see the "pattern" here in many of our spouses.

treasur's comment resonated with me this morning:

Quote
I think standers get to wrestle with different issues as do those in reconnection while non-standers tussle with the consequences of letting go and a life without their spouse. Neither is easier...just different.

Standers as well are letting go and living without their spouse.......but there are different issues that standers face.

I know that God knows everything that has/is happened. I know that He has permitted it to happen, even for some good which I cannot see...but God has a plan....acceptance and surrender to God's plan remains a hard part of standing, because I don't understand why I cannot have the family and marriage that I want and I don't understand the purpose.

With much prayer, with much contemplation and time, slowly I let go of what I think should happen and ultimately turn things over to God. From this, I have found peace and joy in a life that is not what I choose.


SlowFade wrote:
Quote
I feel sad for H who is missing out on a wonderful family. How much fun could we have if H was engaged? S16 and I go to the movies and go here and there and we laugh and joke and have a wonderful time. And H cannot manage to share in any of that. S16 said even when he goes, he looks miserable and as if he doesn't want to be there.........he's right.

I have a good relationship with my daughter and son in law.....these MLCer's are missing so much as they remain stuck in their cave, even if they wish to escape it...something is holding them back.

It is a sad reality for them, why I am grateful to be the LBSer rather than the MLCer.
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