Author Topic: Discussion Should we tell our spouses we are 'standing' for their return? Why or why not?  (Read 1071 times)

Offline AnonTopic starter

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(Inspired by something Acorn said on KITS thread).    I've read a few different times, not all here, that if we are standing we should reveal this to our MLCer ,,, but why?   When I was standing,,, and if I ever go back to standing,,, I would not and could not reveal that to him unless there is a very compelling argument to do so.   It feels to me to reveal a standing status to a misbehaving MLCer is an awful lot like a 'pass'.    The pass gives them the okay to keep doing what they are doing knowing that eventually when things die out years later,  they can go home.  They can take all the time in the world to go home.   Would this keep them in their MLC longer.   I wonder.   What are the supposed benefits to letting them know if we are standers?  I can't think of any myself but I'm curious.   I've read a few different times, not all here, that if we are standing we should tell them we are,,, but why? 

If we are not standers, should we make THAT clear to them.   Why or why not?

« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 09:36:43 PM by Anon »

Online Standing Strong

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I've had some arguments with myself about this too.

#1 On one hand, I feel the same way.... it'd be a "free pass", go do what you want.... trample on me..... I'm a wimp doormat...... wipe your rear end on me. Telling them is a bad idea.
No thanks.

#2 On the other hand, if you don't tell them..... how will they know there's a way back? They could give up due to guilt and automatically believe you're not waiting (or willing) to take them back.
How will they know you're leaving the light on for them? If they do snap out of it, yeah they'd remember what you did for them and that's good. But extent their behavior? Oh no. I don't think I could do that.

But lets be real too for a moment..... if you're standing, you're going to get #1 anyway..... if you're standing they are going to trample on you, they are going to wipe their rear end on you. Yes, detach... that just means you're not feeling it as much while they're doing it anyway.

-SS
W - 38
M - 41
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline AnonTopic starter

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#2 On the other hand, if you don't tell them..... how will they know there's a way back?
I would be inclined to say nothing either way - standing or not standing.   Let them wonder and worry.  That would kill the ‘free pass’ feeling they get if you tell them you are standing.   
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 09:37:41 PM by Anon »

Offline Whyus

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Interesting discussion.
I am not Standing anymore, I am divorced and I filed as I had just had enough of the BS.
If I was Standing then I surely wouldnt tell her about it. That would be exactly as stated above, a free pass to do as you like for as Long as you like whilst I sit around and wait for a return. No thanks to that!
When I dropped my stand I didnt tell her about it. I had bumped into OM at one Point and we spoke for 90 minutes. He actually asked me how Long I was prepared to wait for her and I burst out laughing and told him that she is all his, im Long done and hes welcome to her. I dont Need I Liar and cheat in my life.
They are still together, XW and i have Little contact which is a good Thing. I am surely not her friend!
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. W is actually getting People to accept/Tolerate them.
2 Sons - 19 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Online Treasur

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No
Bc they don't care
Bc they see it as pressure
Bc you may change your mind or boundaries as standing is more about you than your m

I suspect there is some more neutral way of saying 'I do not want a divorce/you leaving right now but you will do as you see fit. I am getting on with life and will figure out what is best for me/the kids as I go.'

I honestly don't see much evidence that if they want to return, your standing makes any difference to them until they do. But if they do, and enough, they will try anyway. You can choose how to respond then.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg


Offline Silver

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I'm not stander either but if I was I wouldn't tell her either. Probably would take it just as a pressure like Treasur said and "another way to try to control HER life".
"I've seen dreams that move the mountains, hope that doesn't ever end even when the sky is falling. I've seen miracles just happen, silent prayers get answered, broken hearts become brand new. That's what faith can do." Kutless

Offline Acorn

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(Inspired by something Acorn said on KITS thread).    I've read a few different times, not all here, that if we are standing we should reveal this to our MLCer ,,, but why?   When I was standing,,, and if I ever go back to standing,,, I would not and could not reveal that to him unless there is a very compelling argument to do so.   It feels to me to reveal a standing status to a misbehaving MLCer is an awful lot like a 'pass'.    The pass gives them the okay to keep doing what they are doing knowing that eventually when things die out years later,  they can go home.  They can take all the time in the world to go home.   Would this keep them in their MLC longer.   I wonder.   What are the supposed benefits to letting them know if we are standers?  I can't think of any myself but I'm curious.   I've read a few different times, not all here, that if we are standing we should tell them we are,,, but why? 

If we are not standers, should we make THAT clear to them.   Why or why not?

What did I say to KIT???
I often comment on her thread and cannot remember everything I said to her...
It must be something about ‘standing’, right?
I just want to get the context. 
Live-in MLCer
Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline hopeandfaith

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Hmmm,  I have chosen to let my H know that I am standing but I have framed it more like a position vacant that I would like him to fill.  The job description is written by me and evolves by the day as I do.  It is up to him to get himself job ready if he wants to or can.  In the mean time, I am open to the right candidate.

He knows I adore him and I don't think I could hide it if I tried so I think it is better for me to come right out and say it but say it with standards.  I think he admires my lack of game-playing and I hope he can see that standing is not waiting.

I love what Treasur posted too.  Horses for courses really. 

I do think H sees my stand as pressure fwiw but I think at this point, it is positive pressure??  It's more like a "I believe in you, you are better than this" type of pressure.  It makes it hard for him to go and eat worms - which he is a bit partial to doing.
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D17 and S15

Offline nah

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Not a good idea.

Hours after BD, I drove to where he was singing in his band and told him I forgave him, to come home, that we had too much to loose.

He almost spit on me when he said, “WE” need space.

I gave him two weeks of space (I must have typed thousands of messages and then erased them), then when he finally called me I begged for him to just see me once a week and I wouldn’t ask one question about what he was doing on his own.

He didn’t even respond. He mentioned something about lawyers and hung up.

Four months after BD, I sent him a message (which I rarely did bc he wanted space) on our anniversary and said, “I miss you and I wish you were home”. That’s it nothing else.
He didn’t respond.

He knew the door was open.

A few months later when we were messaging about something like insurance he wrote,
“you’re really good at making me feel guilty”

Was he F’n kidding? 

I was lucky if I slept more than two hours a night wanting to talk to him. I went from wanting to kill myself to wanting to kill him every five minutes. I was having panic attacks and I was quietly sending him paperwork as he requested it. I never once mentioned where he was, what he was doing or who he was with, and he still found a way to be angry bc I let him know I missed him?

That’s when I decided I would no longer be his doormat.

If he wanted to return, it would be up to him to let me know. They will find a way to twist your words to meet with their agenda. Stand tall, live your best life, whether they look back or not, you will win.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 05:12:38 AM by nah »
H-54
me-52
ow-30
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

Online UrsaMajor

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During the weeks and months that followed ABD and led to her filing for her D, STBX would often make comments about how we could find our way back together in <fill in the blank> number of years "like <so-and-so's parents> ... and begin reeling off reasons for her D...

I would consistently say that a D is not what I wanted, there were no issues that we could not work through if we wanted to expend the energy to do so, but that I would not stand in her way and it would be HER divorce, 100%.... ...

I would also consistently say that I would not sit and wait for her to decide there was no one better out there so she might as well settle.... I would live my life, that I would never say never but that I would not wait.

Since we have been and will continue to remain bound for at least 10 more years due to having smallish kids, we have a high amount of contact which is allowing her to wallow along without doing any real work on her own issues.....

If I were to tell her that I am standing, i. e. waiting for her to get her head out of her ... .fog... there would be NO incentive for her to heal (not that she has the internal incentive to do it anyway.. She IS a low-energy wallower after all) .... and I'd just be that doormat that she she was used to having....

But more importantly, if I would have told her that I am waiting for her, I would feel morally obligated to wallow myself.. .Instead, I am permitting myself to change, to grow, to recover those parts of me that I left behind on the altar of the marriage...
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 05:40:25 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Thunder

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Perfectly said, UM.   :)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Whyus

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Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
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W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. W is actually getting People to accept/Tolerate them.
2 Sons - 19 & 21
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Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline Mitzpah

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Speak with Actions not Words

I agree with this.

I have the further disadvantage that "Standing  does not translate well into Portuguese :)"

My h. knows I love him and would welcome him back if he so decided. I have no need to tell him that . If that day comes, in which he may decide to turn back to God and our marriage/family, he will have to express that desire. Until then, I stay in my lane, on my side of the road.

My actions show all that I am getting on with the business of living, taking decisions that impact "my" future and letting all and sundry get on with their lives!

I don't know that telling them or not telling them makes much of a difference, at least that is what I observe in my corner. So, definitely actions not words!
M 57
H 57
S 27
S 25
D 24
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

Offline heroIam

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Not a good idea.

Hours after BD, I drove to where he was singing in his band and told him I forgave him, to come home, that we had too much to loose.

He almost spit on me when he said, “WE” need space.

I gave him two weeks of space (I must have typed thousands of messages and then erased them), then when he finally called me I begged for him to just see me once a week and I wouldn’t ask one question about what he was doing on his own.

He didn’t even respond. He mentioned something about lawyers and hung up.

Four months after BD, I sent him a message (which I rarely did bc he wanted space) on our anniversary and said, “I miss you and I wish you were home”. That’s it nothing else.
He didn’t respond.

He knew the door was open.

A few months later when we were messaging about something like insurance he wrote,
“you’re really good at making me feel guilty”

Was he F’n kidding? 

I was lucky if I slept more than two hours a night wanting to talk to him. I went from wanting to kill myself to wanting to kill him every five minutes. I was having panic attacks and I was quietly sending him paperwork as he requested it. I never once mentioned where he was, what he was doing or who he was with, and he still found a way to be angry bc I let him know I missed him?

That’s when I decided I would no longer be his doormat.

If he wanted to return, it would be up to him to let me know. They will find a way to twist your words to meet with their agenda. Stand tall, live your best life, whether they look back or not, you will win.


Oh Nah...…..pretty much my story here.
I did let my H know that I never stopped loving him through all this and past years.  I told him I forgave, etc....
He pretty much apologized for everything and said he felt bad I was hurting.  Yea, That was it. :-\   Now he just carries on with his life which most likely includes OW.
So, like you, I decided no more of that.  I pretty much don't contact him at all unless I really really have to about any business related items.  Or to respond to him for a business related question.
I've never flat out said I was standing.  But I have a feeling he knows.  Or at least may know I'm not seeing anyone.
I keep my life mostly private.  I'm not on any social media.  My account still exists on FB but not active on it and haven't been for 4 + years.  (unless it deactivated itself).  I stay off of FB.  Haven't been on since 2014 when BD sh*t came down.  Don't want any part of FB.

And yes to this!!!
Stand tall, live your best life, whether they look back or not, you will win.

“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline Sam I Am

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IMO, telling them you are "standing" is something to be shared when they are receptive.  Doing it during the hardest part of replay when they are anti spouse is no good.  Pressure, control, doormat or however they may see it won't help the situation when they are shut down.

When they get to the point of being receptive....possibly turning back.  Attempting to have some sort of new relationship again, I think SHOWING (as OP stated) you are standing is better than stating it.  Let them see the work you have done.  Let them discover the new person you have become.  You need to still let them do without pressure.

When they get to the point of being ready to talk about things and they are open and receptive, then MAY or MAY NOT be the time to talk about standing.

To me standing actions are:

1. not dating
2. showing love by giving them space and time to heal aka  Leave them alone
3. being courteous when the opportunity presents itself
4. nicely standing up for yourself and not letting them abuse you verbally, emotionally, mentally or physically.  aka  set those boundaries as needed.  Be firm but not snarky!
5. responding appropriately when it is convenient for you.  Sometimes asap....sometimes delayed!
6.  taking care of yourself and bettering yourself for yourself...not for them.  Take the time to care for you so you can be strong for them later.
7.  Thinking things through before responding or contacting....what is the purpose?  What do I expect?  What are the possibly responses?  Is this necessary?  Who is this gonna benefit?  etc.
8.  Being responsible.  Taking care of things to the best of your ability while they are in la la land.
10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.19 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -29 Married with 2 children  Lives Local
S - 27 Engaged in Prof School across country
3 Dogs (he left them all behind - taking care of them but not really visiting or interacting with them yet)

Offline heroIam

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Speak with Actions not Words

I agree with this.

I have the further disadvantage that "Standing  does not translate well into Portuguese :)"

My h. knows I love him and would welcome him back if he so decided. I have no need to tell him that . If that day comes, in which he may decide to turn back to God and our marriage/family, he will have to express that desire. Until then, I stay in my lane, on my side of the road.

My actions show all that I am getting on with the business of living, taking decisions that impact "my" future and letting all and sundry get on with their lives!

I don't know that telling them or not telling them makes much of a difference, at least that is what I observe in my corner. So, definitely actions not words!


Yes Mitzpah
Same for me!
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline AnonTopic starter

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(Inspired by something Acorn said on KITS thread).
I have to retract this.  Acorn did say something on KITS thread that intrigued me but this wasn’t it.   Somewhere on a thread I read something about standing that led to this discussion.  Can’t remember which thread now.   Sorry Acorn!

Offline Not Your Monkey

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I think Sam is right about how receptive they may be.

There is a point during replay where it would be like saying "God Loves You" to an atheist. If they don't believe in God, why would they care? They would just think you are trying to shove something down their throat they don't even believe in (in this case, your marriage). They would also have the sense that you disapprove of their current state of mind and may be judging them for it.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 07:16:30 AM by GonerinGhana »
Beware fellow LBSes serving Kool-Aid. You will attract many who will tell you what you want to hear, but it may be very very far from the truth.

Offline Acorn

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No problem, Anon.  :)

As far as I’m concerned, I neither ‘stood’ nor ‘not stood’.
He had only one pass.  Even then it’s only because I was so bamboozled by the whole thing that I just froze and could not think straight.   

After I recovered my wits, I told him that if he ever falls into it again he knows where the suitcases are.  I told him that was my unmovable boundary as I will not tolerate that kind of disrespect and treachery toward me.  Sayonara, mister, you don’t get to cheat on your wife again and continue to enjoy the comforts of home. 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 07:29:04 AM by Acorn »
Live-in MLCer
Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Acorn

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I think Sam is right about how receptive they may be.

There is a point during replay where it would be like saying "God Loves You" to an atheist. If they don't believe in God, why would they care? They would just think you are trying to shove something down their throat they don't even believe in (in this case, your marriage). They would also have the sense that you disapprove of their current state of mind and may be judging them for it.

Totally agree with Goner. 

Pointing out anything to MLCer could come across as a ‘holier than thou’ and ‘I’m mature and wise, and you are blind and an idiot.’  My MLCer told me as much after I preached to him. (Before I got ahold of myself and installed a zipper on my mouth.)  He had such a fragile ego that just about everything I said to him somehow got turned into ‘belittling’ him in his mind.

Even at this stage of much healing taking place, I do not point out much to him unless he wrongly assumes what I’m thinking.  Not because I’m observing LBS rules so much, but because he is my equal.  I’m not his mom, a mentor or a counsellor.  He can jolly well figure things out himself.  I ain’t fixing no more. 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 08:47:48 AM by Acorn »
Live-in MLCer
Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline megogirl

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Good topic.

You are correct, you are definitely "damned-if-you-do, and damned-if-you-don't" tell them.

I told Mr. Mego at the beginning that I was Standing once I'd learned about it.  I'm not sure that he ever understood what I was talking about.

I also told him when I dropped my Stand, at 2.5 years, that I had done so.  This was after the *3rd TIME* he'd sued me, once civially (D) and twice criminally. 

That was my final breaking point. 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 07:56:00 AM by megogirl »

Offline Slow Fade

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Quote
To me standing actions are:

1. not dating
2. showing love by giving them space and time to heal aka  Leave them alone
3. being courteous when the opportunity presents itself
4. nicely standing up for yourself and not letting them abuse you verbally, emotionally, mentally or physically.  aka  set those boundaries as needed.  Be firm but not snarky!
5. responding appropriately when it is convenient for you.  Sometimes asap....sometimes delayed!
6.  taking care of yourself and bettering yourself for yourself...not for them.  Take the time to care for you so you can be strong for them later.
7.  Thinking things through before responding or contacting....what is the purpose?  What do I expect?  What are the possibly responses?  Is this necessary?  Who is this gonna benefit?  etc.
8.  Being responsible.  Taking care of things to the best of your ability while they are in la la land.


This......perfect!
Married 18
BD April 2012
Left home Nov 2012
Home May 2016

Online UrsaMajor

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Even at this stage of much healing taking place, I do not point out much to him unless he wrongly assumes what I’m thinking.  Not because I’m observing LBS rules so much, but because he is my equal.  I’m not his mom, a mentor or a counsellor.  He can jolly well figure things out himself.  I ain’t fixing no more.

Ironically, there is an interesting article in the UK News today that talks about this.... https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/pregnancy-parenting/you-know-what-dads-dont-need-this-fathers-day-mumsplaining/ar-AACIkS9?ocid=spartanntp
Me - 56
STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Mid-Lifer filed for D
Waiting for final decree

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Acorn

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Yep, that article pretty much explains it. 
As much as I hate mansplaining, I shudder at all the mumsplaining going on in a grocery store, at a ball game, in a playground, etc.

LBS needs to let go of ‘LBSplaining’ urge. 
I view that as part of detachment. 
Live-in MLCer
Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Schratz66

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I never told him either way. After he decided to leave, I told him that I loved him and would always be there for him if he needed me. Since then I do not contact. If he initiates contact, i am always nice and pleasant but do not refer to any R - as far as he goes - he doesn't know if I am or not as I have just let him be. Some times I wonder if I should have told him because what if he thinks there is no going back and is afraid to approach the subject ? Then again - everyone says - if he really wants to reconnect he will make an effort.
Me 52
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Bewildered survivor

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I think I told him after BD that I would be there for him as i really thought he was having a break down. I think I even wrote him a letter saying I would stand pretty much. That was all before I found out about OW- after that I stopped the pleading, reasoning etc & let him go. I made it very clear I would not stand on his way. I don’t think I ever directly said I was standing however I responded to a message he sent me saying “he wouldn’t stand in my way if I wanted to move on” (strange as I never stood in his way- in fact packed his bags for him  :o) by saying I was too busy focusing on my children & would never disrespect myself or my values by jumping into bed with someone else  whilst still legally married. He may have interpreted that to mean I was standing because I wasn’t moving on.

He has the impression that I am standing, waiting for him (MLC arrogance?), scorned, jealous.....none of my actions to him show this. I guess they believe whatever narrative they create in their heads lol

Offline Evergreen

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In the couple of months after BD, before I knew about ow, I definitely let h know (mostly just through actions as he wouldn't talk to me and was hardly around) that whatever was going on with him, we could work it out.

After the affair was out, I wrote to say that there is always a way back. That I believe in and value our marriage and that together we have something worth keeping. 

No way would I say anything about standing now - however he chose to see it, it would not be good, whether that is pressure, me being weak and pathetic, or seeing me as such a loser that of course I can't find anyone else and would just hang on forever waiting for him  :o

I do wonder about telling our friends though, that I am standing. There are only two of our mutual friends I've not lost to this, as everyone else believes h's re-writing of our relationship and history.

When I read this from Trustandlove, it really brought that thought to the foreground...I can absolutely see this happening with h if he ever gets a bit of clarity. Sorry, I couldn't get the quote thing to work properly....bolding is my emphasis:
Quote from: trustandlove
Re: MLCer in an affair - does this help or hinder their journey through the crisis?
« Reply #145 on: June 07, 2019, 02:41:30 AM »


Just on the subject of them "awakening" after many years; I know of Dragonfly's H, who has now done so after something like 12 years; the path to reconciliation isn't easy, but it's happening. 

My name gets brought up here sometimes, my MLCer is one who has gone from OW to OW; I have said before that I think he is living the consequences of his crisis; he may not be in the deepest throes of it any more after more than a decade, but he is living a new reality, yes there is an Omarriage, and from what I understand financial dependence as well.   

Which is difficult for a man who used to be financially successful and well regarded in his profession. 

All of his crisis wasn't about the OWs; there were many other factors; he left his job, he lost huge amounts of money doing other things, there is plenty more. 

My own view is that he was pretty much a poster boy for MLC, and that in the earlier years it was pretty textbook, and not even that horrible if the stories here are anything to go by.  There were many times when he could have woken up and said "I want my life back"; he didn't do that for whatever reason, very possibly because friends may have told him it couldn't be done.  And he felt guilty not only about me, but about they many other things he screwed up, and the longer it went on, the more there was to feel guilty about, hence it was easier to run. 

And in the company he now keeps there was plenty of opportunity to run. 

Over the years I saw so many instances of "almost" reaching out, starting to, and then pulling back hugely.  That was usually after he had spoken to someone else, either an alternative therapist or a "friend"; so many people just say "that ship has sailed, you can't go back, she'll be a b**ch", and so on.  


In our situation, even if h eventually reached some kind of clarity and spoke to a friend who was in fact supportive of me and doesn't believe the rewriting, that friend may still say things like "you've already hurt her enough, let her go" which could be because I'm either happy and he shouldn't ruin that, or already unhappy enough, don't add to the pain. Or just believing that after so many years (as it likely would be by then, I'm only 18 months post BD currently) it just can't be done. "That ship has sailed" etc

I think if I did say anything to our friends, it would be along the lines of me not knowing now what I may or may not want at that point, but that I would absolutely want the opportunity to talk to h and to at least get a bit of clarity or understanding of what happened (like so many here the most I got was an 11 minute phone conversation which was mostly h saying he wouldn't tell me anything)

I know neither of these friends would currently be supportive of reconnection as they hate what he's done and become and can't understand why I would want anything to do with him ever.

I think I would mostly just say that if h ever expressed regret over his actions, ever came to them seeming more like himself and was trying to get a feeling through them of where I'm at and how I might respond, for them to please just tell him to talk to me. That I at least deserve that. And that it's not up to anyone else to decide, even if to them the timing seems horrible and they are sure it will just hurt me. I would say the same I think, even if I'd moved on and was remarried.

I'd be very interested if anyone has had experience with this, or has any thoughts on it being a good or a bad idea  :)


Quote tags added - UM
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 12:52:21 AM by UrsaMajor »

Offline megogirl

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No way would I say anything about standing now - however he chose to see it, it would not be good, whether that is pressure, me being weak and pathetic, or seeing me as such a loser that of course I can't find anyone else and would just hang on forever waiting for him

How are you even a "Newbie" at all of this?  Because you sound like a veteran!
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 06:35:45 PM by megogirl »

Offline Evergreen

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Thank you mego, for the vote of confidence  :)

I'm just so thankful I found this forum...no knowing where I'd be otherwise...doesn't really bear thinking of!!

Offline nah

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Why tell your spouse or anyone for that matter that you’re “standing”. Talking about seems contradictory toward the action itself. Standing should be about yourself, taking your own time to take care of yourself, living your best life, etc. it’s not about them, so they, or anybody else needs to know. Talking about it is too close to manipulation.
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I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
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Online UrsaMajor

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Why tell your spouse or anyone for that matter that you’re “standing”. Talking about seems contradictory toward the action itself. Standing should be about yourself, taking your own time to take care of yourself, living your best life, etc. it’s not about them, so they, or anybody else needs to know. Talking about it is too close to manipulation.

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STBXW - 48
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Acorn

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My H could not have cared less whether I ‘stood’, sat, lay down, or whatever.  HE DID NOT CARE!  He was so very busy with MLC.  He only started to notice my presence and the state of our marriage when the MLC fog thinned considerably and he was well on his way to healing. 

(I must add that he did flip flops - interested in me and old M one moment and then couldn’t care less about it the next moment - as he was entering the tunnel and straddling both worlds, pre-BD and post-BD, but that was all about him, nothing to do with me or M.  Confusion, self doubt, resisting the full onset of MLC.  Flip flopping dissipated as he got further into the MLC tunnel.)

I think we can give too much credit to the impact our ‘standing’ status may have on MLCer.  I’d say don’t sweat it.  Our time and energy are better spent on ourselves to figure out how we walk forward and make our lives meaningful to us.   ‘Standing’ gives us time to respond to the MLC situation and not react.   Reacting can lead LBS to make hasty decisions that may negatively impact us for a long time to come.   I’m obviously not talking about the covenant standers. 

Just my POV.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 06:54:14 AM by Acorn »
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Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Slow Fade

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I didn't tell my H that I was standing...I just told him that if he wanted a divorce that he was going to have to do it all by himself without my help. But not to think that if he did file that I would just roll over and sign whatever he wanted. I told him to be prepared for a fight. The ball was in his court.
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BD April 2012
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Online xyzcf

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The topic: Should we tell our spouses we are 'standing' for their return?  Why or why not?

When I read this question, I feel as though people think that there is something we can do positively or negatively about their crisis.

We cannot. Their crisis is not about us and not about the marriage we once had.

Standing is a personal decision that is right for you. That lines up with your values and beliefs systems. That gives you control over how you are going to proceed in your life.

His crisis doesn't mean that I have to change what I believe about the permanency of marriage.

Quote
Quote from: nah on Today at 03:34:19 AM
Why tell your spouse or anyone for that matter that you’re “standing”. Talking about seems contradictory toward the action itself. Standing should be about yourself, taking your own time to take care of yourself, living your best life, etc. it’s not about them, so they, or anybody else needs to know. Talking about it is too close to manipulation.


YES

Quote
Acorn:
I think we can give too much credit to the impact our ‘standing’ status may have on MLCer.  I’d say don’t sweat it.  Our time and energy are better spent on ourselves to figure out how we walk forward and make our lives meaningful to us.   ‘Standing’ gives us time to respond to the MLC situation and not react.   Reacting can lead LBS to make hasty decisions that may negatively impact us for a long time to come.   I’m obviously not talking about the covenant standers. 

Even for standers who do so because their religious beliefs are convicted of the permanency of marriage, this is something between myself and God. My faithfullness and obedience to His commandments.....my life still moves forward, but I have been asked to live a life of chastity and obedience no matter how my husband has acted or treated me or how he lives his life...my salvation is at stake if I don't follow my Lord on this.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline AnonTopic starter

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I didn’t reveal I was standing to my h either.   I’ve read some articles that say you SHOULD tell you spouse you are standing.   RMM say this loud and clear.  Even earlier writings by RCR said the same.   I’m not sure if that is still her stance though.  I don’t have a clue why they took this position either, hence the discussion. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 08:27:43 AM by Anon »

Offline Acorn

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Quote
Even for standers who do so because their religious beliefs are convicted of the permanency of marriage, this is something between myself and God. My faithfullness and obedience to His commandments.....my life still moves forward, but I have been asked to live a life of chastity and obedience no matter how my husband has acted or treated me or how he lives his life...my salvation is at stake if I don't follow my Lord on this.     

Thank you for adding the above to the discussion, xyzcf. 
Standers or not, LBS must move forward and live a fulfilling and honourable life, no matter how we have been treated by MLCer or affected by his choices. 

So, it is obvious to me that ‘standing’ as an abstract thought is not worth much unless accompanied by real actions of living well. 
Live-in MLCer
Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Online Treasur

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My H could not have cared less whether I ‘stood’, sat, lay down, or whatever.  HE DID NOT CARE!  He was so very busy with MLC.  He only started to notice my presence and the state of our marriage when the MLC fog thinned considerably.


This  :)
Actually I think if we say something like it, they hear 'i am a barrier standing in your way' lol


Weirdly my xh, at the very tail end of his MLC flavoured divorce with the normal delays and inaction by him and gritted teeth timely legal responses accompanied by panic attacks from me, sent a flurry of emails accusing me of 'not letting him go'.
Which was patently ridiculous as I hadn't seen him for about 18 months, had always responded to the legal stuff in days and had initiated no contact about anything other than practicalities.
Fortunately I knew that responding to that like a sane adult was a waste of time so I just stopped responding to the emails at all and referred him to my L. Even then though, it felt like some weird kind of projection...not about me at all. He had no idea what I thought or felt and hadn't cared for about 2 years by that point. But maybe he had a glimmer that actually he was just about to REALLY get what he said he wanted..that I WAS letting him go, that he would probably never see my face again....and ow was lining him up for suit fittings lol.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 08:48:45 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Quote
Fortunately I knew that responding to that like a sane adult was a waste of time so I just stopped responding to the emails at all and referred him to my L. Even then though, it felt like some weird kind of projection...not about me at all. He had no idea what I thought or felt and hadn't cared for about 2 years by that point. But maybe he had a glimmer that actually he was just about to REALLY get what he said he wanted..that I WAS letting him go, that he would probably never see my face again....and ow was lining him up for suit fittings lol.

You nailed it Treasur.  I’ve read your posts for ages,,even back 2 years and yeah,,your h’s first name was ‘projection’.  He was likely terrified that you were letting go, terrified he would never see your face again, and most terrified that ow was arranging suit fitting!   He didn’t stand a chance of breaking free with that barracuda either.  If it was up to him, I doubt he’d be re-married and I doubt he would be a Vanisher.   

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Thanks for that, Anon...always nice when a third party thinks I'm not loopy  :)

But
He did choose those things. They were how he decided to deal with his crisis.
Bc of who I am and how I responded, there were lots of other choices in the middle.
But he chose those. I got little choice at all other than to accept it and protect myself.
I may have felt at the time that part of him was panicking a bit, that he has ended up somewhere he didn't plan to be.
But he did choose it. I have no idea how he feels living it.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online Savoir Faire

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I don't think we have to tell them we are standing - they know.

The day xH BD'd me I told him there was something wrong and this wasn't a 'normal' break-up.  I told him there was something wrong with him and I would stand by him until he was well.  Upon reflection I can only imagine how that statement went down ;D

I started using Google to find out what was actually happening and thankfully found HS shortly after BD.  I also must have told him a little bit about MLC which he was actually receptive to at the beginning, possibly due to his immense confusion at the time which he also admitted to.

XH said to me almost a year later and he was still at home at that time, that he knew I thought he was going to 'wake up' one day and see this was all a fantasy life and he laughed at me with horrible monster and walked away.  He sure was a crazy one :o

During mediation at the courts, my barrister guessed I was standing and the mediator had a 'chat' with xH about the possibility of reconciliation but did not tell him I had agreed to allow this to happen.  He apparently was adamant he didn't ever want to come back.

Almost a year later, xH asked to see me and I met him for coffee.  XH said it was about selling our property but most of his conversation was about NOT reconciling and telling me he was moving in with ow.  I gave him NOTHING.  Didn't tell him I was standing as it was apparent he knew and I just nodded and said, "well, we are divorced" and totally left it at that.  A couple of months later he moved in with ow but I knew he didn't want to.  He told me nothing, I just 'felt' he was following script.

From my standpoint, I don't need to say another thing.  He knows I think it's a MLC and that annoys him to the point of anger at times.

MLCers probably don't know what 'standing' is they just think we wait for them to get through this.  Something tells me they all know exactly where we are and what we are doing and many sense when we are 'done' and contact again if the time is right.
"And when they ask you about me and you find yourself thinking back on all of our memories,
I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412(Denjef's thread)

Offline Penelope2018

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Na. Don't think so. I'd imagine they'd see it as you pressuring them. I heard that a lot from xh. Something simple as telling him to take out the trash was pressuring him. Well drop dead then! ;D That's what I thought sometimes. But yeah, I wouldn't utter any such words. That just seems like it would lead to an argument or monstering. Plus for me personally, it would hurt my pride which has already suffered multiple hits canon balls and bombs. I couldn't even cry in front of him. I just didn't have it in me to give him the satisfaction. I did stand for a while after the marriage obviously since we still lived together, but I don't know if I am now or not. I'm just going with the flow. If I can get out of this rut and find someone worthwhile then I'll probably try harder to move my feelings for xh to the little box in the attic where they belong. If he shows up five years from now completely cooked and I'm single AND he hasn't had any kids or done any other foolishness, then we'll see. But I'm not going to tell him a thing right now.
MLC XH - 42 currently
M - 34 currently
Mini BD - Feb 2017  - Doesn't want to be married to a "sad" person.
Angry b/c I was depressed from my Grandmother's death in 12/16
BD - July 2017 - spent the previous 3 months in his home country with OW
OW discovered Aug 2017
EA started Dec 2016? PA start unsure
Filed for D - Aug 2017
D - Nov 2017
I moved out for four months
Moved back in for 8.5 months
Moved back out 12/2018 - practicing NC
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No kids

Offline Thunder

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The question here was "Should we tell them we are standing"...has nothing to do with WHY we are standing.

The why makes no difference.  Everyone has their own reasons.

Do you think they should be told is what the poster is asking.

A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline mightymama

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I didn’t let my H know I’m standing.  I have some moments of weakness but I keep it to myself.  I remain polite and friendly to him for our young son but I don’t give details of my life really.  I found if you say too much, even things not about the relationship, they get jumpy and run.  Just stay polite but keep detaching.
Me - 41
H - 46
S - 6 (on the spectrum)
Married for 8 years, together for 13 years
BD - April 6, 2018, now separated for a year.
H took off ring and moved out a week and a half after BD.

Offline AnonTopic starter

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Quote
But
He did choose those things. They were how he decided to deal with his crisis.
Bc of who I am and how I responded, there were lots of other choices in the middle.
But he chose those. I got little choice at all other than to accept it and protect myself.
I may have felt at the time that part of him was panicking a bit, that he has ended up somewhere he didn't plan to be.
But he did choose it. I have no idea how he feels living it.

You are right Treasur - he did choose those things but not as a normal mentally sound adult person.  He’s very weak as most MLCers are, and easily influenced by the op.  Might even be afraid of the op, (or have Stockholm Syndrome).  In any case, choosing doesn’t mean they make rational or sane choices.  They can’t while in MLC.   it’s like asking a 5 yr old what they want for dinner.  They will never choose the healthy options.     

Offline bluerose

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     No. Do you honestly believe that they care at that point?

Offline DaybyDay1

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This is an interesting question and one I've often wondered.  I think I told my H I was standing in not so many words and in a very roundabout way. 

For example, when I found out he and my son stopped by OW's house one day when they were working, I freaked out.  I know... not a great example of detaching and also a good reason why you shouldn't snoop.  We had a huge text battle and he said it was none of my business if he was with someone else or not and what did I care.  Not exact words, but something along those lines.  I said something about him moving on with his new life but I still loved him and was trying to process the end of a 20 year marriage.  I went on and said more about how it may be easy for him, but I was struggling and that I would love him... until I didn't.  This type of situation probably occurred somewhere around 4 to 5 times in the 8 months he was with OW.  (Btw, he never openly admitted to being with her.  Kind of why I struggle with trust now.  He says they're not together, but I heard that all last year and they were.  Anyway, off topic but I wonder if I'd have been so open to saying those things had he admitted to being in a relationship.  I knew he was, but he never said he was if that makes sense.)

When he came back last September to test the waters to see if I'd be open to reconnecting, he said something along the lines of how he really thought a lot of the fact that I would "put myself out there" during all of this and let him know that I still loved him.  I'm sure he didn't feel that way as I was doing it, and I still can't believe I swallowed my pride like that so many times, but it did seem to open the door to him trying to talk to me. 
Married 1997
BD: 9/14/17
Currently separated
Working on reconciliation one minute and divorce the next
Two Sons - 19 and 16

Online RedStar

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First, I'll say that I can't *really* answer the thread's question, since I have no authority on the matter at all. But my feeling, based on what I have read of MLC situations over the nearly 1.5 years I've been put in the LBS position is: generally, no. Especially in the case of cake-eaters. I do think that MLCers need to feel that they have lost us. Part of that is just my opinion, based on secondhand observation of many, many sitches...and part of it is, I realize, my pride.

That's one of the things that makes me respond to DBD's post...

... Btw, he never openly admitted to being with her.  ... He says they're not together, but I heard that all last year and they were.  Anyway, off topic but I wonder if I'd have been so open to saying those things had he admitted to being in a relationship.  I knew he was, but he never said he was if that makes sense.

I didn't ever tell xH I was* standing, although I am another whose MLCer denied anything more than a so-called friendship (it was an EA, clearly, if not more than that) while we were still discussing anything regarding us (the last discussion about us at all was more than 6 months ago). The actual fact is, I don't know what their status has ever been *except* that it is 100% clear that she is (still) the main alienator and that he essentially replaced me with her, albeit with the typically MLC negative comments about her along the way (I may start a thread about this baffling yet entirely common phenomenon). He and I don't communicate anymore other than rare, bare necessity, so who knows. I don't look for info from any source whatsoever.

*current intentions completely uncertain

Quote
When he came back last September to test the waters to see if I'd be open to reconnecting, he said something along the lines of how he really thought a lot of the fact that I would "put myself out there" during all of this and let him know that I still loved him.  I'm sure he didn't feel that way as I was doing it, and I still can't believe I swallowed my pride like that so many times, but it did seem to open the door to him trying to talk to me.

This is interesting, and something I have wrestled with. Thanks for bringing it up.

I think sometimes that it would be intriguing, if just for information's sake, to poke the mollusc with something friendly. But then my pride takes over and I'm like, "No way." I just can't. Some sources (and some HS posters) believe that reaching out could be a productive thing. But then I also wrestle with whether I'm even interested anymore. There are a lot of drawbacks and risks to being with a person like him, as we well know, but I know that things can also always change. I was with him because there were a lot of good things about him. Same as how it was for most of us here.

The most recent exchange told me, though, that he's still the rude, uncaring alien, and he does not have any interest in me at all. But I have not made any attempts at friendliness either in at least half a year. I am completely mystified about whether to try creating an opportunity or to let sleeping dogs lie and not risk any life complications. :P

One of the things that has struck me this entire time is that, well, although I can't imagine how he really feels, neither can he know what my feelings and intentions are, because MLCers and LBSs both manage our facades in some way. For all I know, he hates his life and misses me badly, but his own pride wouldn't allow him to show that. I don't know. It's possible. (But not probable, given the timeline.)

Sorry for the ramble, if it was out of place. :D

Offline barbiedoll

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What are the supposed benefits to letting them know if we are standers?  I can't think of any myself but I'm curious.   I've read a few different times, not all here, that if we are standing we should tell them we are,,, but why? 

If we are not standers, should we make THAT clear to them.   Why or why not?
.

I did not and would not tell my husband that I was "standing for my marriage". I no longer had a marriage . It was gone . Initially ( during the time period he was in our home) I am sure that I cried, begged and pleaded with him and did tell him that I was not going to give up etc etc ..   The voice of trauma utters all kinds of reactive words and fears.

Once he left our home and I discovered the OW , I never EVER intended to lay eyes on him again as long as there was breath left in either one of us and to NEVER come anywhere near me again. I  sent him an email ..told him bank accounts are closed, locks are changed, my lawyers name and that I changed his mailing address to his OW's house etc etc.   He needed to feel the consequences of his actions truth-dart.

I never could or would tell him I was standing , it is a free pass that no "matter what he does, I will be waiting " ? .  No , not for me .
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline Laugh or Cry

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A successful Christian stander whose newsletters I receive made it clear to her then-ex that she was standing, loving and waiting and praying for him until the day one of them died. He had moved to another city, moved in with the OW, and was making wedding plans with her… and then came back and remarried his wife. He wrote a bunch of articles and books afterwards, in which he described how what she did made it easier and more desirable for him to come home. BUT, and this is a really big BUT, he was also a serious Christian, and thus Christian guilt was a major factor.

People are different, though. I'm sure plenty of Christian men can compartmentalize well enough to do whatever they want guilt-free, and plenty of non- Christian men who are good guys deep down who would be powerfully influenced by guilt. And of course, plenty of men of all types who might be influenced by love and loyalty, or gain enough clarity to see how much better off they had it with their wife than with the new honey, etc. I guess what I'm saying is that there are different kinds of categories of "men who might eventually return," and so no one pattern we can follow that will work with all of them.

My philosophy with my husband is; keep him guessing. First off, it feels good to turn the tables. But secondly, and more importantly, one of the most powerful psychological tools in the world is intermittent reinforcement (only give the reward part of the time), and that only works if there is some doubt as to what's going on.

Offline Bewildered survivor

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I’m with Barbie on this one. I’m not sure it’s about pride but more about self respect. For me the level of monstering im getting from H is I feel emotionally abusive. Therefore by saying to I’m standing would be saying it’s ok to abuse me. I’m not sure how H could respect me ever again if I did that. He has no respect for me whilst in MLC but if he came out I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t respect me. But who knows.

If he was treating me a better than he has been and there was contact then maybe. At this stage pretty sure I’m not standing. However I’d like to be able to say I loved you and your the father of my children therefore I would like to be there for. I just can’t at the moment as I am battling feelings of hatred for him myself right now. I also know he would some how get a kick out of the fact that I’m standing and therefore I still love him. He’s got high levels of Narcissism right now so the worst thing right now would be to give him any more tools against me. 

It’s such a tricky one as it’s unconditional love he’s looking for I believe and right now his mind is so altered that he thinks I don’t love him and OW does. So no matter how much I told him I was standing for him his brain right now wouldn’t allow him to believe that.

 

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