[OldPilot]

how long is the proper amount of time to wait?

Couple of things

Waiting is not standing.
That is very clear on this website.

As far as how long to wait before getting in another relationship.
I think some advice I was given is not a bad idea, wait at least one month for every year you have been married.

For me 28 years = 28 months.
I waited that past my divorce date. which added 3 more years from bomb drop.

So there is one opinion which I have given many other times before.

[terrified_in_TN]

Thanks OP, but in the context of what I wrote "waiting" was referring to how long one should be single before entering into another r.  It had nothing to do with standing.

Second, my question was actually a rhetorical one.  My point was NO ONE can tell me what is best for me, except ME.

-T

[OldPilot]

My answer was NOT meant just for you.

And thanks for the feedback about the website.

[Nas]

Myself, and my SO (who is taking a self-imposed hiatus from this forum) have come to the same conclusion:  This place helps a lot of people...at first.  But after a period of time becomes unhealthy and I would dare say quite damaging for MOST.  Its almost to the point I question who the sane people are.  Again, I don't speak for ALL, but for SOME I certainly think those that find this site, hang around for a few months, get their footing back under them and leave to never be heard from again probably are more healthy than those that hang around for years, possibly decades discussing MLC.

There are those here who would like nothing more than HS to be a landing spot of only like-minded people.  And I can almost see wishing those of us who don't drink the cool aid from being prevented from having a voice.  So they have their own safe place where they can wait like the lady of shallot without having to be presented with the ugly truth of the likelihood of a desired outcome is unlikely.

Okay, so I  know nothing about you, TNT, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
If you wouldn't mind sharing, since your SO is a forum member, is that how you met?

I think you could have said your piece without insulting anyone, fwiw.  Personally, I see MANY people here who are no longer standing but stick around to help others (pay it forward) and to continue to try to make sense of a traumatic event that happened for which there are no answers.

You're content to have a new (presumably healthier) relationship cover over the unanswered questions (forgive me for the judgment inherent in that statement).  Others still need to grapple with it.  Everyone is different.

The people who "hang around for years" are not obsessing or refusing to let go.  Nah and Ready2Transform are prime examples of LBS who are not standing, and who are frankly killing it at life, and yet still come back to help answer questions for those who are just beginning to wrestle with all of this.  There are countless others I could name drop (and apologies to those I didn't, but y'all know you're killing it and are healthy enough to not need me to name drop you anyway  )

As for the forum being a cluster of like-mindedness - uh...no.  Apparently you've missed the myriad of explosive threads that have resulted from all the differing opinions. 

Congratulations on finding another LBS to spend your life with so that you don't have to "hang around talking about MLC."  I truly wish you happiness, but no need to sh*t on people who use their time differently than you do. 

[terrified_in_TN]

Okay, so I  know nothing about you, TNT, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
If you wouldn't mind sharing, since your SO is a forum member, is that how you met?

Yes, we met on HS.

I think you could have said your piece without insulting anyone, fwiw.  Personally, I see MANY people here who are no longer standing but stick around to help others (pay it forward) and to continue to try to make sense of a traumatic event that happened for which there are no answers.

Although I KNEW my post was going to upset some, I made no reference to any specific posters.  And I do agree there are those who have stuck around for admirable purposes.  If a given poster takes my opinion personally, since I made no specific references, then they should examine WHY they took my post personally.  That would be their issue, not mine.

You're content to have a new (presumably healthier) relationship cover over the unanswered questions (forgive me for the judgment inherent in that statement).  Others still need to grapple with it.  Everyone is different.

Absolutely everyone is different.  Its an individual choice.  Although I am completely lost when you mention 'cover over unanswered questions'.

The people who "hang around for years" are not obsessing or refusing to let go.  Nah and Ready2Transform are prime examples of LBS who are not standing, and who are frankly killing it at life, and yet still come back to help answer questions for those who are just beginning to wrestle with all of this.  There are countless others I could name drop (and apologies to those I didn't, but y'all know you're killing it and are healthy enough to not need me to name drop you anyway  )

Agreed, that there are a few long term posters who are worth their weight in gold.

As for the forum being a cluster of like-mindedness - uh...no.  Apparently you've missed the myriad of explosive threads that have resulted from all the differing opinions. 

I think you misunderstood what I wrote.  I said it seems to me there are those that would LIKE it to be a place of like minded individuals.

Congratulations on finding another LBS to spend your life with so that you don't have to "hang around talking about MLC."  I truly wish you happiness, but no need to sh*t on people who use their time differently than you do.

Thank you for the well-wishes.

[osb]

Have been away from HS for a long while, returned and stumbled immediately into this thread. It's long, it's fractious, it's illuminating and thought provoking.

I agree with the poster (sorry can't remember whom!) who wrote that our responses to MLC likely reflect our own stages, more than those of our MLCer.  I think we all go through denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance, not necessarily in that order, and sometimes circling back to some stages but not others. And while I was in denial, it wasn't my MLCer's fault; while I was angry I truly wanted to set my MLCer on fire (I hated that, so I mostly skipped anger); some of my worst decisions were because I was bargaining with the straw man MLCer in my head; etc etc. I think my MLCer was oblivious to my stages, as he was densely oblivious to me, during that period.

In the end MLC behaviour seems part volitional, and part not. Like an alcoholic transfixed by the bottle on the shelf; like the OCD patient who knows washing his hands one more time will cause them to bleed but he just can't stop himself; like the person who punches through a glass door in a rage, knowing he will shred himself but not caring. My H remembers most of what he did (though very little of what he said... I think he blocks those memories), and knows he chose the actions; he refuses to cop to mental illness. But as another poster said about his own spouse, my H chose the action, without choosing the outcome. A lot of mindless thrashing, followed by shock/despair/reactive anger, followed by more mindless thrashing. I don't acquit my H of causing me pain; I think he caused himself a nearly equal amount of pain; and it was no more reasoned through than a rabbit caught in a trap. But of course he's not a rabbit; and whether he chose it or not, he owns all of it, volitional or reflexive.

That is precisely why, when my H returned, Sorry was the most difficult thing for him to articulate. Still hasn't, really, though he acts it out in every way. In his (idiosyncratic!) view, he's not allowed to apologize for something he voluntarily did, that's facile. He feels he can only try to make it good somehow (...okay, that'll take you years, buddy...).

But that's his problem. My problem? To detach. Guess you can only become compassionate after becoming dispassionate. And once I was at a safe enough distance, I couldn't actually be hurt anymore. It's only at that safe distance that I could begin to decide whether to forgive. And to trust my own judgement enough to let myself do it.

I think there's space for all of these endpoints on HS. Not all of us run through the same stages. Not all of us wish a return. Not all of us permit a return. Not all of us forgive, in the end. Not all of us have to. All of us do grow, though. That's the only gift of time OP refers to, I think.

[beyondblessed]

Terrified...... I have to say, I gotta agree with what you've said.  I've pretty much said the same iny own lapsed thread, only to be called "condescending", but hey, we all perceive things from our own place of residence or what ever point we are in our own lives.  I could probably say things in a " nicer", more politically correct manner, but it's never been my way to sugar coat the the truth to make it easier to swallow.

I haven't been back here for months, but I do still have many friends who keep active threads.  I will always urge any and every LBS to cut ties with the MLC'er as much as possible, especially when the hurt and damage they cause far outweighs any possible good they may do.   I am 100% Pro-LBS.  I have always believed it was the MLC'er CHOICE to leave and yes, I absolutely believe they do what they do because they WANT to, consequences be damned because they simply don't care.  That said, I think they are very screwed up mentally, at the same time, yet that is no excuse.  It is still my feeling that you must move on from here, and start rebuilding your life as YOU want it because that really is all you've got, once they walk.  At that point, they may have started it, but it's all about YOU because they couldn't give a damn less what happens to you.

[Airmid]

It is still my feeling that you must move on from here, and start rebuilding your life as YOU want it because that really is all you've got, once they walk.  At that point, they may have started it, but it's all about YOU because they couldn't give a damn less what happens to you.

Amen!

[KeepItTogether]

Oh Tn you are not condescending to most of us. (Or we certainly don't take it that way) We understand you completely. Some of us, like Nas, and me,  have battled cancer.  And others still have small children. So, we clearly have different issues. And you were an OM?  So clearly different.  We get it. Thank you for your perspective. When you battle a disease that threatens your life, and/or you have small children, maybe your bravado will change. But the fact you had to come back here tells me... hmmm … Maybe not? 

[gman242]

It is still my feeling that you must move on from here, and start rebuilding your life as YOU want it because that really is all you've got, once they walk.  At that point, they may have started it, but it's all about YOU because they couldn't give a damn less what happens to you.

Amen!

This sums up the point I was going to make. I just don't get the anger, towards either the MLCer or the LBS.

I got to a point where I realized that all the wishing, hoping, thoughts and prayers I was putting into "trusting the process", could have been better spent on me and my own process. When that happened, I stopped being angry and stopped caring about my ex or what she is or isn't doing. Isn't that all that matters? I'm focusing on me.. what happens happens. I don't have a goal other than that.. it's kind of a zen thing.

But the anger.... i don't get it. I've been angry and I've let go and I don't blame people that are angry too. I still find I can be angry, but then it goes away.

 But the thing for me here and to circle back to MBIB... I think no matter what, letting go is hard and for those of us that can sympathize with our MLCers (note that doesn't mean making excuses for, justifying ect) I think letting go is even harder and we get told to "get with it" more that the competition, (so to speak) who tend to high five each other over their "don't let the door hit you on the way out" posts.

And furthermore, for the guys here, those of us that do sympathize with our spouses and have shown confusion of our own progress and "stand", well frankly, "standing" doesn't exist for the peanut gallery. Any attitude other than "don't let the door hit you on the way out" brings out posts about how you're not getting it or you're focusing too much on your spouse.

If I mention I noticed my ex noticed I lost weight as a plain observation, I get slammed for caring about what she thinks. However, if I phrase it like "you snooze you lose b!tc#", nobody notices. And yes, I've felt like I've had to censor my posts so as not to draw that kind of negative attention.

I admit it feels good to think that XW may be missing out, without putting any of my own connotations onto that, but I'm also not the kind of guy to put her down either, aside from when I've just had to get some stuff out. So i feel like there's little balance under normal circumstances.. I can't say what's on my mind without it being taken to an extent I hadn't intended or I have to inject some false bravado to keep people off my back.

To go back to what I was saying, I hope everyone puts all those thoughts and prayers onto themselves and trusts their own process and let's go of whatever their doing. That doesn't mean we begin to hate our spouses at that point.. or because we post something we need to work out, it doesn't mean that we're obsessed either.

Things just aren't black and white for some people and nobody has the right to tell us where we are on our own timeline of healing. In fact, i stopped working with the therapist i was with because she wanted me to be divorced by a certain date and I just couldn't do that. I knew I was headed to this point, where I am now, but nobody was going to make me do it.

If people aren't ready to change, they aren't going to and they certainly won't do it by being yelled at. People with spouses who are being abusive are different.. I just wanted to make that distinction. They don't deserve to be yelled at, but they should be advised about protecting themselves.