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Author Topic: My Story I just found out I am an LBS

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My Story Re: I just found out I am an LBS
#90: February 11, 2020, 03:06:53 AM
Hi to those following,

Been a really intense couple of weeks here...

D17 became D18 last week of Jan!  Like most milestones since my W's MLC started it was bitter sweet.  We enjoyed a family meal together and I was very proud of all my family, but of course a bit sad inside to imagine all this disappearing.  I smiled through it.  As we waited to be seated I talked to W and leaned in to hear what she was saying over the noise and she kissed my cheek, no explanation.  This irritated me that she felt like she could just do that.  A year ago I would have been very happy for the contact.  W has increased AD dosage and tells me she is not self harming any more.

Generally W is being very pleasant and asking after me, doing things for me and making small physical connections.  So the dance continues, but in last week or so the tempo increased:

On Saturday last weekend W asked for a talk.  Oh dear I thought. 

W tells me that after getting advice she has realised that she would like to stay in our house and for me to move out, as she feels that with some payments from me she can afford to do so.  I remained calm, mostly as this was not a surprise despite her previous promises.

  I told her that her decision was to leave or marriage several years ago, she just didn't tell me and that she should leave me in the house.  I explained that with the mortgage set up as it is i cannot get another mortgage and would have to rent until S11 is 18 year old.  A rental property would be much smaller.

W counters that she would be in same position and is happy for us to live as we are, roommates who co-parent.  I said that this arrangement is messed up and not the best for kids, for example her sharing room with D13!
She says well I will come back to our bed. I said: 'I dont want you to'.  I thought, but did not say 'whats the point of your coming back if you do it just because you feel obliged'?

She monstered a little, 'You broke me and now I have broken you'  was probably her best shot!

I told her to get a proposal in writing and I would consider it, but was not committed to accepting anything.

She returned later and said ;' Lets not do this, lets stay together and work on this'

LW: I have been working on this for years.
W:  I know
LW:  I cant carry on taking all the blame, I am not responsible for everything you see wrong with your life.
W:  I know that.
LW:  You dont care for me and have treated me cruelly for years, Its not safe for me and I am worried that if I try to carry on I will collapse in some way, probably by having a breakdown.
W:  I care for you
LW:  Not enough


Since then she has been very anxious and coming for hugs, reassurance.  I give her a hug when she asks, but reassurance I cant do. 

You cant reassure someone if you have no idea whats going to happen to you, them or our children.

LW
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Re: I just found out I am an LBS
#91: February 11, 2020, 03:28:12 AM
I guess the real question that YOU have to ask yourself is whether or not you want to reconcile in the end. If you do, you may wish to consider what it would take for you to feel safe, to believe that what W says is for real.

While it could simply be a cycle or a T & G, it sounds to me from this brief synopsis as if W is making the first attempts at reconnection, especially since she is still in the house with you. If reconciliation is your end goal, you may wish to see if this reconnection attempt is for real or not. She may need to be able to see/feel/hear that you are, indeed, willing to make the effort in reconnecting and reconciliation as neither of these is a "one party doing all the heavy humping of the MLC baggage" situation and reconnection is a 2-way street where BOTH parties have to be equally involved and part of the solution.  It is certainly NOT an easy road to travel if you choose to do so...

This may mean that you will have to answer some pretty uncomfortable questions about your own desires and motivations and how much you are will invest in the reconnection....

Just food for thought.....
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« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 04:26:15 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 56, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 13, D - 9
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

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Re: I just found out I am an LBS
#92: February 11, 2020, 03:36:45 AM
How did your seminar go, LW?

I'm sorry; it must be incredibly hard to live with this kind of uncertainty and back and forth from your w. On a positive note - bc we have to grab the small positives don't we  :) - it sounds as if a bit of your w at least momentarily accepts that you are not responsible for her unhappiness. It's strange, isn't it, how little of a 'plan' they seem to have in crisis? In many ways tbh it is as if they just want the LBS/m to disappear in a magic puff of smoke or be able to pick out a few responsibilities they like from family life and just ignore the rest? I wonder actually if some kind of 'planning' is another thing the ow/om offers to them in the midst of this kind of confusion? Either a bolt hole to run to or the energy to come up with a plan when the MLCer seems unable to do so often. Idk.

I have no advice at all but just wanted to say I hear you. It sounds as if you are beginning to work out the boundaries that will work best for you and your kids regardless of what your w does or indeed how she feels about it. But I am sorry bc this stuff is really hard and sometimes it feels almost impossible to plant your own feet firmly in the middle of chaos.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: I just found out I am an LBS
#93: February 11, 2020, 04:33:08 AM
LW,

I would just say, I wouldn't move out of the house.  Unless you are sure it is over.
Even then think long and hard about you being the one to move out. 

This is going to be a hard decision either way, but maybe try to see if there are positive actions from her, IF that is what you want.
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

D
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Re: I just found out I am an LBS
#94: February 11, 2020, 05:09:59 AM
LW,

I would just say, I wouldn't move out of the house.  Unless you are sure it is over.
Even then think long and hard about you being the one to move out. 

This is going to be a hard decision either way, but maybe try to see if there are positive actions from her, IF that is what you want.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have stayed in the house, as Thunder suggests. My W said and did many of the things that yours is saying and doing. I wish I would have been stronger. In the end, I moved out, and now that we have been apart for two years, she says it's time to finish the divorce. Because we've been living separate lives for so long. We both can move on.

I think if reconciliation is your goal, then following the path of other strong men on this site who stay in the house  with their wives is the best way to go. For myself, I ended up needing  therapy and a rather strong drug to cope with the anxiety of dealing with a live-in MLCW.  I just didn't have it in me.  Oddly, I've been much better suited to dealing with the abuse and nasty comments since I moved out. I have friends who just can't believe how I've been able to withstand everything that has been thrown at me.  I still feel like a failed her, and us, by moving out.

You sound really good.  You sound stable and strong.  You'll in a good place and I think you will make the appropriate decision for you and your family.
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M=51
W=47
D=8
BD Feb 17 Thinking of divorce
Atomic BD June 17 Spying revealed OM at work
Still home.  Threatened to leave several times and has asked me to leave about a dozen. 
Says divorce proceedings will start Jan 18.
She has scheduled mediation Feb 7,  2018
I moved out March 16, 2018
Several mediations, mostly instigated by me.  Foot dragging by STBXW.  Nothing filed. Yet.
5/2019 STBXW filed D behind my back despite signed agreement to mediate.
I retain attorney.
STBXW still hasn't told me and no further action.
Elephant in the room has been addressed.  No further action atm.  Weighing my options.
12/16/19  She files financial paperwork.  Divorce proceeding.

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Re: I just found out I am an LBS
#95: February 11, 2020, 06:50:59 AM
Hi All

thank you for your excellent responses as usual!

UM you are spot on as per - the real question is if I want to reconcile and reconnect can I trust her commitment to me and the process?  The first part is easy - I want to R&R, but on the second part I am very ambivalent.  I am genuinely worried about my mental health (if I am hurt again with another false return/betrayal) and in particular dealing with a stressful job which pays 3/4 of all our families living expenses whilst being a good, functioning and sometimes happy Dad.  I'm not sure I am strong enough for the emotional toll should I be battered again.  I want W for her, not for security or because I want to avoid hurt - I know I can live w/o her, but dont want to look back in regret if I end up feeling like I have bailed out too early, (although it feels like a long time, I know it is not).

Treasur - Seminar went well, posted above about content - thanks for asking.  There is certainly no planning in MLC, planning is pressure!  Just avoidant behaviour although there does seem to be some acknowledgement from W that maybe her previously held beliefs are extreme and distorted by her crisis.  In previous discussion W said several time 'I had a breakdown' in order to explain PAs, lies and other MLC madness.  I am almost certain that W has ceased contact with OM2.  I guess I will never know for sure, but something feels different, W seems to have a shame now that has changed from guilt towards the children.  I think she is starting to accept what damage she has done to me and D18.  Facing this has been very hard on her and if she is committed to R then this is a long road ahead still.  W increasing AD seems to do nothing to slow MLC.

Thunder/Dis - I dont see myself leaving the house unless it is the only way to split up if I decide I cant go on.  I told W to get figures on that proposal just because I think she needs to see the reality of what she is doing.  It seems a good contrast to her fantasy land living she has indulged in for several years.  It is useful for me to have a worse case scenario in order to plan my counter proposal, especially as it requires W to submit all her financials which are unclear to me currently.

I guess I have to consider carefully what signs/commitments from my W I consider solid enough to risk further pain. 

Any suggestions on a postcard please!

LW

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Re: I just found out I am an LBS
#96: February 11, 2020, 07:15:15 AM
Quote
I guess I have to consider carefully what signs/commitments from my W I consider solid enough to risk further pain. 

Just a stray thought....what would happen if you flipped the question over? As I understand from what you posted, you want to give it a shot, feel now that you can live w/o your w if that happens but are concerned about your mental capacity primarily to live with....what?....what you call the emotional toll.

And your question is about predicting the cost maybe so you can work out if you can?

Not saying anything about whether you can/should but wondering where you would go if you asked yourself a slightly different question....particularly as I guess your question is about things you probably can't control although you can have boundaries. There are plenty of good reasons in all our situations to say yes, no, enough or a little more and that's a very personal thing.
But
What would increase your confidence in your capacity or build more capacity regardless?
And what are the most difficult bits for you of the potential 'emotional toll'?

I suppose we are here bc of common ground of a spouse in crisis unravelling our own lives in some way, and that has some particular challenges. But I guess marriages do have challenges that might be about the health or behaviour of our spouse which are different but just as hard. A terminally ill spouse or one with dementia or addiction say, something we didn't cause and can't change all the same. Again, something we can control but can only navigate the best we can. I wonder what makes that different or what we can learn from that. Idk. Just an idea.

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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: I just found out I am an LBS
#97: February 11, 2020, 10:03:56 AM
Treasur,

My biggest concern is the damage to my self caused by further betrayal/lies from W if I give things a final shot.

 I had one false return after PA1 was discover just over 2 years ago now... W begged me to forgive, said she was not mentally well, wanted a chance to prove to me, etc.  We were going to work on things together - open and honest about everything.  Six months later she had PA2.  I had a much smaller betrayal and false return five years ago too.

Im not sure I can take another betrayal and I know I have to trust her to move on.  Accepting what has happened is easy in comparison to maybe setting myself up to be devastated all over again..

LW
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Re: I just found out I am an LBS
#98: February 11, 2020, 11:01:12 AM
I get that, LW.
So I suppose (bc you can't control if there is an om#3 and she isn't yet inspiring the confidence in you that you need), it sounds as if you have three choices.
Do nothing for a little while and see if her behaviour changes significantly enough to reduce the risk.
Decide that you are simply not prepared to take the risk at all and decide to start taking action and filing for a divorce so you can protect your home, finances and heart.
Figure out if, after two betrayals, there is a way to be less damaged if a third happens which is probably about detaching a bit more emotionally.

Working out how much risk you can carry is such a personal thing isn't it? And is influenced by practicalities too.
I suppose it is also about all the other behaviours even if there's not another om, bc your m is not the m/life you had or probably want is it?

I remember - and i am only talking for myself - the point in 2017 when I realised that I couldn't keep my sanity unless I let go of my h bc the risk was too big and the rewards too ephemeral. It had nothing to do with love tbh but more about survival....but neither choice felt great.
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« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 11:03:27 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: I just found out I am an LBS
#99: February 15, 2020, 03:01:18 AM
Treasur

you are absolutely right. There are only 3 choices, but I guess my position is a mix...in that I am prepared to give W some time, but am also preparing for this change to be unrealistic in terms of MLC and timelines.  W is depressed, shows guilt, but no remorse except in regards to hurting kids by breaking up.

I will continue to engage as required with mediator in order to agree the logistics of our impending separation in the summer, but I am open to R&R if W agrees that she/we engage in some sort of therapy or counselling to address the root causes of her MLC and our failing M.  W would also have to be more committed to showing me that she wants me rather than just security, by showing remorse and the associated change in behaviour.  I will not agree to leave the house unless I absolutely have to.

I deserve to be with someone who wants to be with LW, the whole me, not just a bank account and a hug when she feels low.

I dont foresee that W will be willing or able to show me these changes before the summer and we will separate.  And I accept that this pressure is exactly the wrong way to go if I intend to stand until W leaves the fog, if she ever does, but I have to think about my own health, not just as LW, but as a father of four and main financial provider.

I feel very acutely the need to protect myself as the more stable parent for the children to lean on during the storm to come.

The psychological damage to me of a potential further PA and associated deceit and disrespect are beyond my ability to face without firm, consistent actions from W that provide some measure of safety for me and our children.  I accept that this is my failing for not being emotionally detached enough, but I have learnt the hard way that recognising ones flaws is as important as ones strengths.

 I will feel guilt for this weakness in future, but i do feel that self preservation is not selfish, especially when you are a parent.

W recognises recently that I am focused on protecting myself and the children and have long ago reached the point where I have no fear of her reactions to me clearly stating what I need to continue to work on our M.

If I see signs of positive action from W to save our M then I wont insist on splitting up in the summer. 



LW
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