Author Topic: My Story More After Life  (Read 2786 times)

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
My Story More After Life
« on: July 26, 2019, 01:23:27 AM »
Old thread https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10956.0;all

Some really imho useful discussion on the end of my last thread. All without my contribution at all lol.
Which I appreciate but am not going to unpick here.

I think I come here sometimes to do an emotional or cognitive version of unblocking my own drains  :)
And hope that some one else might have a similar drain blockage and share a useful tip or learn one. And tbh it may be that I have blocked my own drains by doing something stupid or it may be a neighbours tree roots...that might influence how useful the tips are or how I feel or how others judge my drain unblocking...but if I want a clear sink, I still need to unblock my own drains don't I? Even if I feel a bit squirmy that I have been shoving things into my metaphorical waste disposal that I shouldn't have done lol.

Met a lady with a beautiful garden and a small dog called Pippin yesterday. I have walked past this walled garden every day for over a year and peered through the metalwork that separates it from the road and it always lifts my heart. The house is an old pub, I think, and the garden is not huge but a perfect English garden. Yesterday evening, I saw the owner and decided to stop and say how much I appreciated her garden. She invited me in for a stroll round and we chatted a little. While Pippin tried to lick my toes lol. She is a widow who lost her husband Jack 14 years ago, a very calm open kind of woman. No idea how old she is..70s maybe, or well oiled early 80s even. I liked her. I think she liked me too actually. And I left musing on a solo life and gardens and how I would really like to reach a point where I don't feel ashamed of my xh, my m, my own responses to what happened or my solo life. And all the things I am still indecisive about in terms of putting down roots, including having a new cat.

I have a lot of my own s$it to clean up. That's a fact.
And I have more bc I got stuck and couldn't think straight and didn't know what to do and lost myself in the middle of it all for years. Also a fact.
I think too much and act too little. Usually bc I have become afraid of my own capacity and judgement. Also a fact.
And a lot of my stuckness was less about letting go of my h or m...it was about how I didn't want to accept the reality of multiple losses. And my own sense of shame at how poorly I dealt with them. Also a fact.

And pretty much all the 2x4s I have received have been bang on the button. I just couldn't act on them mostly. Or not at the time. The tough truth I suspect is that I stopped wanting a life after I lost my tribe. I didn't want to GAL bc my internal jury was unconvinced that I wanted to live at all. Which sucks and I feel quite ashamed about that and my dad would be lining up 2x4s too...but that is how it was for me. Even when I no longer actively thought about suicide, I had not crossed a line into wanting to live. Somehow just me wasn't enough point. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? And such a lot of wasted time.

All nothing to do with my xh or however I label his behaviour or my own.
Labels can help us make sense of the incomprehensible for a while but I'm not sure they help much with actually practically unblocking and building better drains  :)

In the spirit of fairness and balance, much as I wish I had done some things better or quicker, I am pleased that I did not keep watching my xh like a germ in a Petri dish. That I chose to believe there was nothing worth standing for to me after what had happened. That I - albeit slowly - saw that it was unhealthy to want contact with anyone who will hurt you without concern, even if you don't understand why they would do that. That I wanted to save myself more than I wanted to support my then h. That I respected his right to leave but not his right to abuse me as he left.

I think I am at a different bit of my story now...a kind of lots of s$it happened but now you get to play the cards you have stage. I am probably bored of indecision, inaction, being a self pitying victim, fear and thinking. Yay!
And I think I might have found my original 'trust in God but tie up your own camel' beliefs. I am sorry that whatever happened to my xh and me caused so much damage and distress. It would not have been my choice for either of us. But it was the path my xh chose. I do feel more and more that although what happened wasn't a good thing for me, some of the way it happened maybe was. That God might have saved me from more things and people that would hurt me more as opposed to punishing me lol.

So what does this all mean?
Accepting that I am not at all sure what I want to do with my life now.
Doing things anyway.
Trying things even if I am not sure they are what I want
Tidying up my own s$it.
Feeling gratitude for the metaphorical roses.
And leaving my lost treasures in my own little memory box to be pulled out occasionally when I need them or want to feel grateful for what I had as well as what I have.

Sun shining here after thunderstorms last night.
A tidying up my s$it day here while listening to the radio as a 'feint' tactic for my fear.
And an allotment evening when it is cooler.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 02:48:56 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9075
  • Gender: Male
  • Live like they are never coming back
Re: More After Life
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2019, 01:40:15 AM »
First to follow along!  ;D
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline One day at a time

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2019, 02:04:59 AM »
I'm attaching too!!!
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2019, 02:27:49 AM »
First to follow along!  ;D

I shall award you a free virtual life drain plunger then, UM  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9075
  • Gender: Male
  • Live like they are never coming back
Re: More After Life
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2019, 02:51:21 AM »
First to follow along!  ;D

I shall award you a free virtual life drain plunger then, UM  :)



<snort>  ;D
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online Father5

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 117
  • Gender: Male
Re: More After Life
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2019, 07:21:23 AM »
HI Treasure ! ,

I am following along also ! I love this line "That I respected his right to leave but not his right to abuse me as he left."

 I think I want to make a T-Shirt LOL
Together 12 yrs Married 5
5 kids 3- Step (21) (20) (18) Two together ( 8 ) (9)
BD1 March 2018 - I wish I could give you more of what you need
BD2 Aug 2018 - I want a divorce sent by text ILWYBNILWY

O/M Discovered Nov-18

Offline Mortesbride

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2461
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2019, 08:01:38 AM »
Here
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline One day at a time

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2019, 08:55:38 AM »
Lovely to see your latest update Treasur.. I think we are all a bit guilty of analysis paralysis at some point in our journey. I also have a fear of jumping into my new life head on but the reality is, what other option do I have? Do I know what I want? Nope! But I just keep moving, I have said in my thread a while ago that at times I felt like I was just trying to keep myself busy, doing things to pass the time.. But at the same time some of that "stuff" I did that at the time felt a bit like running, has opened other doors for me and has changed the way I think about things.. So maybe you can call it unexpected benefit?

Personally, what has helped me a lot was to connect with other people. My family is far away and I didn't really value my friendships (big mistake!) because H was all I needed so after H left I felt very lonely and lost.. Most of my closest friends right now are people who before were gym or work acquaintances.. Now they are the people who I share a lot of my time with, they make me laugh, they hug me when I'm upset, they offer to get stuff for me when I'm sick. They make me feel loved and cared for and they make me realize I'm a human being that is worth spending time with and in a way, they prove my H wrong.. As a person, this has helped me a lot in my recovery as LBS. I have to admit, I still live with the shame of being left by my H but the shame is shrinking because I have people in my life who prove to me that it's H's loss, not mine.

In your previous thread there was a lot of discussion about GAL and if it's good or not.. What worked for me was a mix of GAL and sitting with my pain to process it. Neither extreme is good, IMO.. So get out there and be the wonderful person we all know you are! Connect with people in RL, find people with shared interests that might motivate you to go even further down a particular lane. You might not know what path you want to follow yet but you need to get out there and see what the options are  ;)


H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline Anjae

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16370
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2019, 01:47:44 PM »
Welcome to your new thread, Treasur.  :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Online Rosetintedglasses

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 981
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2019, 05:48:57 PM »
Treasur

Joining you for ‘more after life’.

You’ve gone through a lot and come very far, good for you strong lady!

Rose 🌹
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
PA with MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2017 then EA
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

Offline Milly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2651
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2019, 05:51:16 AM »
I'm here, too, Treasur.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Offline Nerissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2019, 10:23:29 AM »

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2019, 11:06:00 AM »
You’re ahead of the curve Treasur!

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jul/27/room-to-grow-how-allotment-life-can-be-the-best-therapy

Nice to know! And he gets it, he's been there hasn't he? Interestingly his latest book sounds like an LBS kid and an MLCer meet in a bar.... ::)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Nerissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2019, 11:25:07 AM »

Offline Anjae

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16370
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2019, 04:33:51 PM »
And pretty much all the 2x4s I have received have been bang on the button. I just couldn't act on them mostly. Or not at the time. The tough truth I suspect is that I stopped wanting a life after I lost my tribe. I didn't want to GAL bc my internal jury was unconvinced that I wanted to live at all. Which sucks and I feel quite ashamed about that and my dad would be lining up 2x4s too...but that is how it was for me. Even when I no longer actively thought about suicide, I had not crossed a line into wanting to live. Somehow just me wasn't enough point. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? And such a lot of wasted time.

I dare say many LBS are not able to act on 2x4 or other things. At least not early on and often for a good while afterwards. There are neurological reasons for it, as well as, if you want, or for lack of a better expression psychological/emotional ones. It does not sound ridiculous to me. For many of us there is a period of darkness. After all, our world was turned upside down in a manner we never expected.

Do you want me to send you 22C max?  ;) :)


The allotement article guy gets it, but his situation is very different. His wife was ill. She didn't cheat and left him and turned into someone he did not knew.

His book seems interesting. Thank you for the links, Nerissa.


We talk a lot about grief and how there is no timeline for it. This is from Nick Cave's The Red Hand Files, a newsletter in which he answers fans questions. This was in reply to a fan that lost his wife and was left to care for their daughter. For those who may not know, Nick Cave and his wife Susan lost one of their twin boys, 15 years old Arthur, in 2015.

"But grief is beyond our control; it is omnipotent and invincible and we are miniscule in its presence and when it comes for us, all we can do is to kneel before it, heads bowed and await its passing.

But, as you know, grief is also tidal. In time, it can recede and leave us with feelings of peace and advancement, only for it to wash back in with all its crushing hopelessness and sorrow. Back and forth it goes, but with each retreating drift of despair, we are left a little stronger, more resilient, more essential and better at our new life."

The whole reply can be read here: https://www.theredhandfiles.com/hard-to-find-happiness/
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline heroIam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1947
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2019, 06:45:47 PM »
Following along Treasur
“In the end, you’ve got to be your own hero because everyone’s busy trying to save themselves.”

Offline PJ Will Be OK

  • MLCer Type: Low-Energy
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 558
  • Gender: Male
Re: More After Life
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2019, 07:15:21 PM »
Following along Treasur. I'm always fascinated by what you have to say. Thanks for being so generous.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019

Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11093.0;topicseen

Offline Standing Strong

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 397
  • Gender: Male
Re: More After Life
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2019, 08:09:08 PM »
Jumping on T,

Always there for ya  :)

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline Finding Joy

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 358
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2019, 08:36:50 PM »
Following Treasur!

I completely relate to not actively thinking of suicide, but not really being ready to fully live either.  I was there for many months of this last year.  Yet, somehow with each passing day there are little bits of hope, Joy, and healing that takes place.  Unnoticeable until I look back on the months and weeks. 

Your losses have been great.  I’m not sure you should look at your time as wasted, it takes as long as it takes to heal.  It took me 20 years to heal from my Mothers choices.  You are an inspiration.  Keep on moving forward step by step.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2019, 02:19:06 AM »
Quick update from a sunny patio with coffee.
I am ok, really I am, bit getting more ok means looking honestly at what I couldn't before.
And what is getting in my own GAL way.
Without pretending, justifying or using it as an excuse.

I appreciate the warm words but actually I don't feel that I have been strong or inspiring at all.
I got lost. In my case, in PTSD and isolation and avoidance. I am much better but I am still not entirely mentally or emotionally healthy tbh. I feel a bit ashamed about that and this sometimes makes me a bit defensive in acting on very good advice from myself and others. 'I can't' has become a habit. It is a bit tricky sometimes to find the balance between being honest with myself about that and the barriers it creates without using it as an excuse to be a victim of it.
But I am starting to chew my way out lol.

It is residue really. And often quite irrational. My new default is shaped by two things. My first assumption is that something new is a threat. And one that I might not be able to deal with. Complete opposite of how I used to be. So, for instance, got a text from an old client on Friday wanting to talk to me. My old assumption would have been 'oh, perhaps some nice new work'; my current one is that they will want something I can't do or deal with. I seem to see the simplest thing as an overwhelming number of steps each of which could be a disaster.  So I ignored the text. There is no logic to it at all. I will call them next after this though.

The second is that it is  still too easy for me to get stuck in a kind of obsessive rumination and depression. May be a character flaw, maybe just a bit of PTSD residue. Less about xh or MLC, but just a small 'how the hell did I end up here from there' thing. Can't even put words to it actually. Odd really bc there are many things I have let go of, but some small need to make sense of that lurks. I think it is just that feeling of insecurity about what was/is real or not and what that means. And it is an unhealthy mental distraction from more constructive things. Thinking less is a big challenge. Or wanting certainty and clarity. Or getting obsessive about other things perhaps is the way to go lol. But the more I think, the more I avoid doing. I do get why my brain keeps returning to it like a dog with vomit, but it is hard as hell to stop.

Savour Faire just posted somewhere about no longer having the shakes, but also recognising that her brain still has two sets of conflicting sets of thoughts and it's a bit of a weird feeling. Get that, don't like it but get it. Tbh it is a pretty strange experience to accept that I married someone who could be capable of probably wanting me dead, and completely devaluing me as a human being, both in terms of what it says about me and about him. And how I lived such a different reality before...no wonder my brain still goes WTF lol.  But I have no doubt that I don't want people in my life who don't respect or value me, who cannot be kind as they go about their business, so his absence is ok now even if I have no idea how he became that kind of person. My stuckness really isn't about my xh at all. Much more about me learning to respect and value myself again tbh.

But I honestly feel that nothing but gritty small actions will change it imho. If only I could order grit from Amazon  :)

So, much better than I was but still some anxiety and depression big enough that it is still getting in my way.
It is very irritating to see how you are getting in your own damn way. ::)...and yet not be able somehow to clear it with a mighty bound lol. Just need to work harder though. Helps tremdously though ha ha that it is just about me really....I am increasingly comfortable accepting that the reason why things happened matters less and that my xh is a stranger to whom I am irrelevant, so that takes me off the MLC rollercoaster. But I hate that my brain is not yet my friend lol.

Beautiful clear starry sky last night was a wonder. Uncle's small party was nice and we're planning a separate belated birthday treat too. Accepted a BBQ invite on Friday with some new neighbours which was nice too. Golf lesson was also nice. Coffee with Veronica and Pippin the dog yesterday. Pile of paperwork is smaller. Have plans with friends for next weekend. Some health stuff and mother stuff which is not so nice and I'm not so sure what to do, but I'll figure it out in the next couple of days.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 03:07:19 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9075
  • Gender: Male
  • Live like they are never coming back
Re: More After Life
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2019, 03:13:28 AM »
I'm dealing a bit with a similar "avoidance" thing... and it is mostly stupid stuff like you said like making an appointment to get my car inspected or getting my tax return finished and submitted or making an appointment for a routine checkup...

Thinking about it makes my stomach churn a bit whereas before, all those things were just easy and handled in short order because they are really NOT a big deal.....

I guess that I just have to, as the Germans say, jump over my own shadow and do it... ....
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2019, 03:26:56 AM »
Good phrase, UM...jump over ones own shadow...exactly how it feels, what's the phrase in German?
I'll jump around today and hope you do too  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9075
  • Gender: Male
  • Live like they are never coming back
Re: More After Life
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2019, 03:36:01 AM »
Good phrase, UM...jump over ones own shadow...exactly how it feels, what's the phrase in German?
I'll jump around today and hope you do too  :)

In German it is "Muß sich über ihr Schatten springen." (You have to jump over your shadow)

So far, one thing out of the way - some paper work I have been avoiding but NEED to take care of as I stand to profit from getting it in on time...

Next up is calling the garage and making the appointment....
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline One day at a time

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2019, 04:39:34 AM »
Interesting what you said about looking at new things as a threat. I can relate to that and I have to admit that didn't come with BD, my brain was already "wired" that way and in my specific case was probably related to suffering from migraines and the anxiety that came with it. Anything outside my routine was a threat.. New job? Uf, no, it'll be stressful and I'll get migraines.. Going out on a week day? No, I'll be tired tomorrow and then I'll get a migraine, etc etc...  And my life became very small and full of fear... Not a nice way to live!!

I have managed to break those patterns, sometimes pushing through the fear to prove to myself that I could do things and nothing bad happened.. As time went on, I got more and more adventurous and I am very happy I did because my life was not great before, even when I still had a H because of all this internal struggle. It is maybe one of the silver linings of MLC in my case, I'm getting to know myself a lot more and I'm breaking negative patterns I had in past.

I'm very glad you are making plans and you are spending time with people in RL. It takes time and some days you might have to push yourself to get out there but it'll be worth it in the end. Gritty small actions sounds like a great plan  ;)
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2019, 08:03:14 AM »
And there you go...three bags of paper rubbish later and 4 of my 5 to do done while listening to podcasts.
And the message WAS about a nice new bit of work!
And I feel good and normal and as the work was from a recommendation, feel a bit loved too  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9075
  • Gender: Male
  • Live like they are never coming back
Re: More After Life
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2019, 08:17:15 AM »
And there you go...three bags of paper rubbish later and 4 of my 5 to do done while listening to podcasts.
And the message WAS about a nice new bit of work!
And I feel good and normal and as the work was from a recommendation, feel a bit loved too  :)

And I am only 50/50 but not for lack of trying... I think the garages phone system is horked because it was busy all day since noon...

Later - OK, now I am 2 for 3. I managed to get my Tax Return submitted (I should get about 2K Euros back so it was to my benefit), a set of instructions sent off (that could net me up to about 4K Euros so ALSO to my benefit - WHY was I avoiding that all? <facepalm>) and even got a few things filed and my clean clothes put away.. so maybe 3 of 4?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 01:40:14 PM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline KeepItTogether

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4941
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2019, 02:23:27 PM »

Beautiful clear starry sky last night was a wonder. Uncle's small party was nice and we're planning a separate belated birthday treat too. Accepted a BBQ invite on Friday with some new neighbours which was nice too. Golf lesson was also nice. Coffee with Veronica and Pippin the dog yesterday. Pile of paperwork is smaller. Have plans with friends for next weekend. Some health stuff and mother stuff which is not so nice and I'm not so sure what to do, but I'll figure it out in the next couple of days.


Sounds like quite a bit of GAL to me my friend! Much of my GAL, as I've said before has really been about avoidance. I need to figure that one out a little better I think. You've made me think once again dear Treasur!


"But grief is beyond our control; it is omnipotent and invincible and we are miniscule in its presence and when it comes for us, all we can do is to kneel before it, heads bowed and await its passing.

But, as you know, grief is also tidal. In time, it can recede and leave us with feelings of peace and advancement, only for it to wash back in with all its crushing hopelessness and sorrow. Back and forth it goes, but with each retreating drift of despair, we are left a little stronger, more resilient, more essential and better at our new life."


Wow--this really hit home Angae! And I think we don't necessarily recognize it as grief when we are in the middle of it. Only after it has passed do we realize sometimes that is what it was.
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Anjae

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16370
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2019, 07:25:54 PM »
Wow--this really hit home Angae! And I think we don't necessarily recognize it as grief when we are in the middle of it. Only after it has passed do we realize sometimes that is what it was.

I found the words amazing, but they are not mine. They are Nick Cave's ones. An answer to a fan whose wife has died. Cave lost one of his twing sons some years ago. He knows a thing or two about grief, and knows how it was seeing his wife, the boy's mother, in grief. I agree we don't tend to recognise grief when in the middle of it. Unless maybe if we had been there before. I was able to recognise it when my maternal grandmother died. Had no idea what it was at BD and for a good while afterwards.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Anjae

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16370
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2019, 07:31:49 PM »
The second is that it is  still too easy for me to get stuck in a kind of obsessive rumination and depression. May be a character flaw, maybe just a bit of PTSD residue.

I don't think it is a character flaw. Just a normal thing for some, if not many people, that suffer trauma. There is still residue of PTSD, there is probably still a bit of depression. I would say it is normal.

Savour Faire just posted somewhere about no longer having the shakes, but also recognising that her brain still has two sets of conflicting sets of thoughts and it's a bit of a weird feeling.

From what I remember, it is a very weird feeling. In my experience it ends up going away. When? I don't know. It will be different for each of us.

But I honestly feel that nothing but gritty small actions will change it imho.

It is fine. One day of a time.  :)

Beautiful clear starry sky last night was a wonder. Uncle's small party was nice and we're planning a separate belated birthday treat too. Accepted a BBQ invite on Friday with some new neighbours which was nice too. Golf lesson was also nice. Coffee with Veronica and Pippin the dog yesterday.

All wonderful.  :)
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Dumbfounded

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2661
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2019, 01:19:46 PM »
Attaching...
Married 1998
MLC H 48
LBS W 47
D16, S12
BD March, 2016
Left home Sept 4, 2016 - living with parents
H filed for D - July 24, 2017
D final March 14, 2018 - still living at parent's house

“You've seen my descent, now watch my rising.”
― Jalaluddin Rumi

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2019, 10:12:11 AM »
Made some (for me) big strides this week in tackling some of my life mess. Still sometimes two steps forwards and one back, but really big progress. And the universe has rewarded me by some of the problems I anticipated being non existent or not so big plus a few nice surprises and some new client work. It feels good to deep breathe through the fear and then suddenly realise that you did something and it wasn't as bad as you thought it would be. Life has also given me a not so great health issue which is being checked out as we speak and which is throwing a bit of a spanner in some of my plans, but I'll have a clearer idea on that soon. The health thing has made me go a bit quiet with both my uncle and some friends bc I'm not sure how bad it is yet and I don't want to worry them. When I know more though, I'll ask them for help if I need it.

But overall a definite 3 stars week  ;)

Hearing about the awful loss of Mitzpah's son though is a solid reminder that there are many worse things in life than my situation and challenges. And than a magic disappearing h and marriage too.

All the talk about mouth vs feet, payoffs and lies - along with time - seems to have shifted my perspective on a lot of things. Big and small. Maybe I just care less about some things now and more about others. Maybe it is just easier to be unvarnished looking back than looking at things in the present. Idk. As part of my own recovery actions, I have found myself getting a lot tougher with myself about why I do or don't do certain things, what my own payoffs might be no matter how weird or irrational. Including my beliefs about this bit of life experience and my own history and the payoff from PTSD....bc there were some. Not sure they were always very healthy or wise lol...but I guess it is much clearer to me that I can't do things differently sometimes unless I am honest about the payoff from doing what I was doing. Or not doing. Some of them sometimes were invisible to me tbh, but I can see things now that I couldn't before. That darned reality in the room  ::)

I wonder if the LBS experience is naturally a bit of a pendulum when you swing from one POV to the opposite. Healing from it is probably when you start to settle somewhere in the middle maybe. Which probably needs a bit of time and detachment and clear ground. I don't think I am a better person for this experience or that my life is better, but it has certainly changed my perspective on pretty much every bit of life.

Another golf lesson this weekend learning to chip (whatever that is!)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline One day at a time

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2019, 11:04:06 AM »
Treasur, happy to hear about your big strides but not so happy about your health issue. I really hope it's nothing serious..  I do understand that sometimes we want to keep things to ourselves so we don't have to deal with their worry on top of ours.. But there's also the saying "A problem shared is a problem halved" so if you feel you need to talk to someone, maybe pick one person to discuss this with? Entirely up to you off course..

Crossing fingers and toes for you!! xx
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline Nerissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2019, 12:09:28 PM »
. I don't think I am a better person for this experience or that my life is better, but it has certainly changed my perspective on pretty much every bit of life.

This notion exercises me too. Not sure.  I do hope you are ok. X

Offline Finding Joy

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 358
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2019, 01:08:43 PM »
You have a way with words Treasure!  I am so sorry to hear you are having health issues!  It is awesome that you are making strides, and funny how life works, rarely are things as bad as we make them in our mind(with an MLC exception;).  Nice that some things have worked themselves out!!!
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2019, 04:35:36 AM »
Well, pushed through a bit of a baby panic attack (just scared of new people now sometimes  ::)) and got a hole in one at my golf chipping lesson  :)....so felt pleased with myself for NOT doing avoidance and pleased with my new skill (fluky luck).

Hazy sunshine here today so a couple of home jobs then off to the allotment.

I am really am making some big progress here and it feels better and better. A sense of momentum. Just need to stick with it. A couple of big challenges too which are possibly not going to be so easy but my attitude is different now, more of my old "well, I'll figure it out as I go"
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Milly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2651
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2019, 07:23:29 AM »
Sounds like you've moved forward once again, Treausur. Funny how after the two steps back, there is a forward one after all. Good to remember that for the future.

Happy allotment!
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2019, 11:31:56 AM »
For reasons I'm not sure I understand I have been finding it difficult to go to sleep lately, staying awake until 2am or 3am. I have also been clearing out books and rereading some to decide if they stay or go. So I have been reading the Starbridge series by Susan Howatch. They are a strange rather thought provoking set of fictional stories about characters linked to a world centred around a cathedral, and quite a lot of story strands about various kinds of spiritual breakdowns I suppose and faith and mistakes and different kinds of redemption. Happy to recommend them whether you are religious or not.  :)

But they have been making thoughts about forgiveness creep into my head even though I didn't really invite them in. Making me wonder whether my unwillingness to forgive in a real way is actually damaging me or keeping me stuck a little still. If I don't want to bc I would have to look truthfully at what I'm forgiving and those are memories and feelings that I worked hard to survive by not getting close to them. Bc they hurt and I got so tired of hurting. Maybe not hating is not enough. Maybe not forgiving means I am still carrying it. Maybe it is the last bit of stuckness. Or the last bit of victimhood. I honestly don't know. Prayer needed I think, maybe different kinds of prayers. But I feel something is unfinished even if I don't know what it is. One of those itchy 'post it note' feelings when you are just not at all sure of what is moving around in you but know that something is.

I've never really had to do big forgiveness before. Not at all sure I know how to do it even if I decide I need to. But I think I do know that I might have to close my eyes and remember in order to really know what hurt so much and why it hurt so much in order to finish putting it down. Odd feeling. So definitely prayer needed  :)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 12:14:57 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online OldPilot

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12833
  • Gender: Male
Re: More After Life
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2019, 11:38:02 AM »
For reasons I'm not sure I understand I have been finding it difficult to go to sleep lately, staying awake until 2am or 3am.
I hate to say this but the sleeping issue could be a function of age.
I know that I started having this issue around your age and others that I know of my
age group have similar issues.
Of course you can see your doctor and make sure it is nothing else.


Wish it was something easier to fix.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2019, 11:45:44 AM »
Ah it doesn't worry me too much, OP
Never had sleep problems before BD. Only recently started having problems again and it doesn't feel unbearable or about anxiety. Assume that if I am tired enough I will sleep. Meanwhile I get to catch up on my reading...
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online OldPilot

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12833
  • Gender: Male
Re: More After Life
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2019, 11:58:17 AM »
Never had sleep problems before BD.
I understand - problem is that we don't get younger every day.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2019, 12:02:54 PM »
Oh go away you horrible man  ;)
I have been trying to persuade myself that I am in my prime rather than the raddled old lady I have felt in the last couple of years. Do you think if I got lost for three years that secretly means I am actually 52 in LBS years lol? Like dog years  :)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 12:15:43 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online Helpingme!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2276
  • Gender: Male
Re: More After Life
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2019, 12:17:57 PM »
Treasur
You just gave me my good laugh for the week. Lol.
Yes, you are in your prime. Keep on trucking.

Online OldPilot

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12833
  • Gender: Male
Re: More After Life
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2019, 01:18:03 PM »
Oh go away you horrible man  ;)
Hmmm - you left out the adjective OLD.

But ok - will do.   :)

Offline UrsaMajor

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9075
  • Gender: Male
  • Live like they are never coming back
Re: More After Life
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2019, 03:34:41 AM »
Well, they say that 50 IS the new 40.....
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Mortesbride

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2461
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2019, 08:59:24 AM »
Well if it makes you feel better I am up to 2-3 am lately too.

Weird since I am not up studying or that.

I guess I just can't sleep.

Personally I blame it on the darn UK light nights. By the time the sun goes down I need a few hours of darkness before I feel sleepy.

It definitely isn't to do with the gaming or netflix bingeing...  ;)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Finding Joy

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 358
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2019, 09:32:40 AM »
I truly believe forgiveness is a choice versus a feeling, the feelings eventually follow that choice.  Forgiveness is for you, not your h.  It allows you to let go.  I am finding it a long slow hard process to forgive all of this.  I daily speak the words out loud, I forgive h.  I daily give my hurt and bitterness to God.  I do this for me, not h. 

It is not until this last week that I have begun to feel myself let go of some of that hurt.  My feelings are catching up with my choice to forgive.  My heart is becoming lighter due to it.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2019, 10:55:22 AM »
Well, whatever the sleep blip was it has gone now. Busy week or so, amazing actually how something has shifted in my head and gained momentum. Golf lesson was cancelled due to super big winds at the weekend but I have been walking a lot...I like the beach when the wind is up and there is no one else around. So lots of beach walk thinkys but the content is rather different now. A couple of tricky things to deal with and a lot of next steps stuff. But I do notice that I am increasingly back to feeling like Me again, both mentally and emotionally.


PTSD
Which is why I have popped on to post. I know some other LBS have suffered from PTSD, some have had treatment and others not. I have mentioned a couple of times feeling that there is a post-PTSD stage which is part of the process too. What I wanted to say is that it is possible to feel your brain and spirit working properly again. Or at least it is starting to for me now and that is a tremendous feeling. Quite difficult to describe....closest that I can get is that it is like driving a car when the handbrake is fully off again. I honestly never believed it would happen...but it has and I want you to know that it can happen for you too. That it is worth the effort and faith. There is still life mess post PTSD, of course there is, I wasn't fully functional for a long time...but even the mess feels like a positive opportunity to un-mess things as opposed to the overwhelming morass it was before.

What seems to come along with it is a different kind of thinking. More of an 'ok, so these are the cards I have, what do I want to do?' And a sense that some of your old beliefs might no longer be quite the same and working out what you believe now is part of setting your course if that makes sense. But it doesn't feel scary or painful or bewildering. You feel as if you are in control of your own brain again and that is a marvellous thing. And instead of just having a big amorphous spludge of pain and confusion, you can sort of look at it and go, hmmm interesting I wonder what is really hurting and what do I want to do about that.

And looking at what I believe now and why and what I want to do with that feels like a much more interesting and fruitful thing. It is also easier to accept what I do believe about my own experience and to trust my judgment now rather than chewing on things endlessly.


Reclaiming Your Reality
I found one of the odd things about excavating some of this MLC stuff and all the associated narcissistic/no empathy/rollercoaster/gaslighting script stuff is that when you look at those behaviours, people say well you just didn't see the red flags that look like this. And I looked and looked, and I honestly couldn't find them in my experience of my marriage. And if I couldn't and I'd tried hard, rather than keep looking, another obvious answer was that they weren't there to see. That my experience of this person, backed up by others experience of them, was pretty much how it was...until it wasn't. I can own my niavety and arrogance in not understanding how my h's buried chickens would come home to roost...tbh I don't think he saw it coming either...or what was chicken and egg between his head and his actions...but I also see that doubting my own reality was like gaslighting myself. Even if I also accept that my xh's version of that reality is possibly completely different. It was a really damaging thing to me and it is healthier to stop doing that even if others - here or in RL - think I am wrong. It doesn't change the cards I hold now or what I do next...but it makes a tremendous difference to my own sense of normal. It may even with time help me decide if I need to forgive my xh and others....ha ha, not there yet lol. And it doesn't mean I need to keep any door open to who my xh is if I accept the reality of who he was before he broke.

But part of the reason why what happened to my spouse felt so WTF, not normal and crazy is bc it WAS WTF, not normal and crazy. And very little of it was MY crazy  :)


Remarriage
My newly restored brain also had a set of thoughts about the situation where, for others like me, their less than normal spouse remarried quickly. It is a strange experience as some of us know. I honestly don't know if my then h can be labelled with 'MLC' or not...probably that matters more for his future than mine...but I do know he had some kind of breakdown and stopped behaving like a sane decent adult or like a recognisable version of the person those of us who'd known him for years could comprehend. And I do believe that my h was making choices albeit maybe not always conscious or rational ones, that there was some 'mentis' in his 'compis mentis' lol.

So it occurred to me...what kind of person would fail at their first m so spectacularly and in such an extremely destructive way and then remarry so quickly? You would have to believe that marriage mattered so obviously your first marriage wasn't enough for you to doubt the wisdom of marriage per se. But to do it, you would have to believe one of three things.
- That any failure in your marriage was nothing to do with you so there was no significant risk in making a lifelong and legal commitment again.
- Or that you had fixed your failings and learned your lessons without any kind of discussion or explicit responsibility towards or with the person who was the other half of your first marriage.
- Or that the person you were now marrying was so perfect that they would magically compensate for your failings.

To a sane person, these beliefs are unlikely to be true....even if ow/om was a sterling quality human with a deep commitment to marriage vows lol...which is why you don't see many LBS here rushing into remarriage without doing some serious work first. In a strange way, it occurred to me that spouses who remarry quickly must believe at some level that marriage is a good thing for them...and you wouldn't do that if you also believed that your first marriage had no value as a life experience.

So, I hope that this little piece of logic is a small weird bit of consolation for those with speedily remarried MLCers. Both that your marriage could not have been the ghastly horror they might have claimed. And that the chances of a blissfully happy second marriage in these circumstances are pretty poor if one looks at it objectively without some real 'catch up' effort even if people stay in them  :)...and you are no longer around to blame are you?



Ok, back to using my newly-working brain for my own current set of cards now lol

« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 11:45:23 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online stillbaffled

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4441
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2019, 11:50:23 AM »

So it occurred to me...what kind of person would fail at their first m so spectacularly and in such an extremely destructive way and then remarry so quickly? You would have to believe that marriage mattered so obviously your first marriage wasn't enough for you to doubt the wisdom of marriage per se. But to do it, you would have to believe one of three things. That any failure in your marriage was nothing to do with you so there was no significant risk in making a lifelong and legal commitment again. Or that you had fixed your failings and learned your lessons without any kind of discussion or explicit responsibility towards or with the person who was the other half of your first marriage. Or that the person you were now marrying was so perfect that they would magically compensate for your failings. To a sane person, these beliefs are unlikely to be true....even if ow/om was a sterling quality human with a deep commitment to marriage vows lol...which is why you don't see many LBS here rushing into remarriage without doing some serious work first. In a strange way, it occurred to me that spouses who remarry quickly must believe at some level that marriage is a good thing for them...and you wouldn't do that if you also believed that your first marriage had no value as a life experience. So, I hope that this little piece of logic is a small weird bit of consolation for those with speedily remarried MLCers. Both that your marriage could not have been the ghastly horror they might have claimed. And that the chances of a blissfully happy second marriage in these circumstances are pretty poor if one looks at it objectively without some real 'catch up' effort even if people stay in them  :)...and you are no longer around to blame are you?


Treasur - I bolded the part of your paragraph that just made me laugh!  I'm very very sure the ow in my situation is not a sterling quality human.....BUT, she does seem to have some sort of commitment to marriage vows (for a brief time anyway!).  Maybe my MLCer as number 5 will be the one! 

Your thoughts on the issue of remarriage were interesting and I'm glad you shared them.  I've always said we're kind of an elite club with our MLCers who quickly jump into another round of sacred vows! 

How are things coming in the allotment?  I haven't checked your blog lately.   
BD: 1/1/16
Together 15 years - married 7 years
His divorce final 7/26/16
Married the OW

After all, tomorrow is another day.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2019, 11:57:02 AM »
Ah sounds like ow likes weddings more than marriages lol

Allotment is a bit untidy at the moment - bad weather and work stuff has slowed me down, but hoping to get there for a good play and picking in next couple of days. Have onions and garlic drying off in my mini- greenhouse and beans to pick  ;)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline KeepItTogether

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4941
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2019, 12:58:29 PM »


- That any failure in your marriage was nothing to do with you so there was no significant risk in making a lifelong and legal commitment again.
- Or that you had fixed your failings and learned your lessons without any kind of discussion or explicit responsibility towards or with the person who was the other half of your first marriage.
- Or that the person you were now marrying was so perfect that they would magically compensate for your failings.


Pretty sure they all choose door number 3 above. Unicorn farts and rainbows, and all that. I also think that most, if not all, are more or less "ultimatumed" into these marriages and so they comply b/c well, they might lose schmoopie bear.
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2019, 01:30:02 AM »
Well, who knows...in a way I guess that matters more for their future doesn't it? As I recall when I found out who ow was in June 17 bc of the financial disclosures...my then h of course had denied her existence and then her significance when the facts were obvious lol..I took my one and only dive into her social media. And she had been posting things about wedding dresses etc since early 2016 if I remember right....when my h was claiming to love me but was 'just' depressed and asking me to not give up on him.  ::) Oh, and literally, ow posts a lot about unicorns bc she believes they have 'healing powers'....I wonder if his psychiatrist charges extra for that lol...that was my one and only dip into ow land and it made me feel yucky and bemused tbh. I am sure that ow had her own plan...but to be fair, my then h DID choose to get engaged when he was still married, did choose to lie and did choose to marry her within a few weeks of the divorce being final. While still denying to his own L and me that he had any plan to do so  ::) As far as I know, ow did not put a gun to his head and some bit of him must have believed that marrying her was a good choice.  ::).....even though any normal adult, even with a normal marriage ending, would see more red flags than a red flag shop lol.

Their marriage IS real however. It isn't the kind of wedding or marriage we had, but it is the marriage they chose to have. And my opinion of it is not relevant to anyone but me is it? I can see that other LBS view these things differently but that is how it seems to me.

Talking about reality....PTSD and depression and grief does a HUGE number on ones ability to know what is real and what is not imho. Which is why recovery means that truth, facts and reality are very important in reclaiming your spirit and life back from it. There are many things about being collateral damage to someone else's crisis which are truly surreal. Even now, I can still think WTF about some of it. PTSD does I think delay some of your emotional processing and I have found that some unfinished emotion has popped up but it is not overwhelming as it was. More a kind of 'gosh that WAS weird, wasn't it?' Another version of detachment I guess that helps you see that, whatever it was that happened to my former h, it was NOT normal and his behaviour frankly got MORE crazy as time went by and I was not in his life...when logically it should have got LESS crazy if it was about me or our marriage. No idea how healthy or sane he is now of course.

But reality is not just about reclaiming my right to my own experience and memories. It is also about accepting the reality of what happened and what that created. I am divorced. I have not spoken to my xh in well over a year. He is married and has a life I know nothing about. He did do all of the WTF things I saw and heard; my not understanding why doesn't change that. He did behave/behaves as if my thoughts, feelings and life are absolutely irrelevant to him after almost 20 years. As if I am and always was nothing. That wasn't his reality before but it has been since 2016 or so. It never felt like he had a plan and I'm not sure that my complete absence was his intention, in fact he said that it wasn't as I recall. But he made one choice after another that inevitably brought him - and me and his old friends too - to where we are.

So MY reality also includes all of those things and the logical assumption that a healthy me will always say no to anyone who treats me as completely worthless and that there is no possible bridge to even a basic kind of reconnection bc my xh chose to burn them all or let them be burned by others. For me, in my situation, standing would be denial of reality. But I can accept that current truth without binning the equal truth that my xh used to be a different person and a pretty good husband who loved and valued me and our marriage for many years. Both are real. And I am not nothing, our life and marriage was not nothing, our home and responsibilities were not nothing, our cats were not nothing, our friends and my family were not nothing...that was real for us and is real for me too. As is the truth that I loved my h, still love who he was but also love my sanity and safety too much to want to encourage a kind of insane Jerry Springer show into my life...bc it isn't the reality of who I was or am now, even if it seems as if it became my h's reality. Who knows? He may like it...but I never did.

I would never judge anyone else for standing or seeing a more hopeful current reality than I see. But normal needs a big truth transfusion to balance out the WTF stuff in my experience....it is a personal thing of course....but the truth imho does slowly set you free when you can detach enough to see it.

Doesn't stop it being sad or frustrating or disappointing. I still find it extraordinary that my h never even said goodbye and that I will probably never see his face again before I die. But Time as OP says does help you adjust and find a way to see the Real in front of you as opposed to the Real behind you. And feeling your own sane normal brain come back to you is such a gift that it is worth seeing what you don't like about the new Real. Truly it is.

Sun has come out here before the thunderstorms predicted for the afternoon, so I will dash off for an hour with real onions, beans and grass that needs trimming  :)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 01:52:09 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Milly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2651
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2019, 02:50:48 AM »
Still here following your musings, Treasur. Hope you have a fun hour at the allotment and maybe bring home some veg to cooke something wonderful with.xxx
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2019, 06:27:26 AM »
And the rain came.
Decided instead to make sultana butter cookies to go with my healthy salad lol.
I have also decided it's ok to miss my h occasionally as these were one of his favourites...but after over 3 years, I can just enjoy them on my own  :)

Perhaps MLCers only eat cookies with nuts in  ;D
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9075
  • Gender: Male
  • Live like they are never coming back
Re: More After Life
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2019, 07:43:48 AM »
Perhaps MLCers only eat cookies with nuts in  ;D

<snort>
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Milly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2651
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2019, 12:38:05 PM »
Oh, I would love a couple of sultana butter cookies!
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Offline Milly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2651
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2019, 12:38:59 PM »
And of course it's ok to think of your H at times. He was a major part of your life.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Offline One day at a time

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2019, 03:03:53 PM »
I don't think there's anything wrong with missing your H. When you spend so many years with one person I think it's normal to think about them with fondness every now and then.

I think my H will follow your H's footsteps. We are not divorced and can't even start the process for a good while and there's already talk about marriage to OW.. It's crazy but obviously he doesn't think so and neither does his family..

I want cookies too!!  ;D

H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2019, 01:09:44 AM »
The cookies were good  ;)...healthy green salad first though lol.

I just read 66's post about little Eloise the squirrel and her musings on love.
And Music making the point that new sorrows open the thinky sadness gates a little which is quite true imho. Found myself crying a bit about Eloise, for 66, for our losses, for mine.
I don't always like it that my emotional skin is thinner now but it isn't necessarily a bad thing.
I just think loss sometimes underlines in bold how some things matter more than perhaps we knew before.

And as often happens, posting to 66 became a kind of posting to myself.
There are lots of different kinds of love aren't there? But there is a particular kind of big good love which is quite hard to describe but you know it when you feel it. For me it is about uniqueness, about really seeing another human or another creature as completely unique - just like the rose in Le Petit Prince - unique to us bc we see them differently. They are known to us in some particular way. Just like Eloise was to 66. Just like Louis the cat was to me. Like my father. Like my mother. Like my husband.

Love has all sorts of other needs and wants in there, but there is a kind of honesty in big love, something inherently good...something generous..and you feel it when it is there, no matter what kind of love it is. And when you are the recipient of it, you feel truly seen in a way that feeds something in your spirit I think. Like validation with go faster stripes. It is hard to have felt that and to no longer feel it, to feel unseen and no longer unique to others as you were.

Love becomes something so complicated as an LBS doesn't it? Old love and new alike. And whatever we feel for our pre-crisis spouses, or feel now, takes quite a while to shake itself out. I have found it strange that the love I used to feel, which was a thing of joy and ease for me, became something frightening and threatening and something to be guarded against and not spoken about. I have often felt guilty about loving the person who used to be my h, as if it was a weakness or something shameful or unreal.

But it isn't and it wasn't. A lot of the love in my life was good big love that fed my spirit. That knew me and saw me and treasured me and others as the unique creatures they were. It may be difficult to make sense of it now, or to live without it, but it would be dishonest and churlish to pretend that it was less than it was. I was lucky to have every single moment of good love in my life and to be able to give it to others. Every single damn moment. And I refuse to let the dark days of bad love take that away.

What I also said to 66, that perhaps I needed to tell myself, is that it is ok to feel that love and that bond even if the person is lost to us and we need to live as if they are gone for good like sane sensible folks. And that kind of good love simply can't come from a person in crisis...not to us, not to anyone. Even if we don't know why they changed, we see angry, self-centred, depressed, frightened, needy flailing people with no calm stable centre....we don't need to understand it to see it...rationally, it just isn't possible for people like that to do good love, to see the kind of grace and uniqueness of another human in a healthy life affirming way. It just isn't. No matter how much we fear their new happy is a replacement or something better than us. If our spouses loved us well in the past, they are no longer capable of loving like that now...not us, not anyone else. And I don't think they necessarily want to be really seen, or not by us anyway. They may not see the difference but if we know what good love feels like, we do. Which is why it is so hard to lose it and why we are so grateful for all those moments with our kids or parents or friends or Eloise's...bc it reminds us of good love and why it matters so much. And I can't love who my xh is now bc I can't see him and I no longer know who he is bc he became an unrecognisable stranger to me.

For those who reconnect, I suppose finding good love again is based on some combination of how much of the people you knew are still there and some kind of reintroduction to the strangers. No wonder it is hard to do. In my situation, it really is impossible for that to happen from what I can see and I am sorry about that. But even if it were possible, I can see that it would be an unknown journey for both wouldn't it? And I suspect you would only find the courage to both even try if there was some residue of the good love uniqueness left in both of you. Only one bit is not enough is it? Which is why I guess our loved ones have to have reached some level of recovery from their own crisis enough that some part of them is even capable of wanting good love, of feeling the difference, let alone being able to do it.

So, I think it is ok to not be ashamed of the good love in your life and the bits of that you associate with who your spouse used to be. I think they can no longer feel it....or remember it...and they may never be able to do so again. But that is their loss. Our loss is different bc we know good love matters while having to accept that our spouse is no longer capable of it. And that bad love is to be avoided bc of our good love for ourselves.

Idk if there will be other loves in my life...but I do know that I am grateful for the good love I've had, that experiencing it has made me a better human, that it matters in all its different forms. And good love matters so much that I refuse to be ashamed of it even if it is part of my past not my present. I can find a way, I think, to love all of my lost loved ones and to see them as unique and irreplaceable to me while also building a way of living without them. But it would be a loss too far to pretend that the good love was bad or stupid or not real just bc it is hard to lose it and bc others in RL don't want to hear it. Or bc it is love without a home to go to currently. Recovering myself from this dark time is also to me about recovering and appreciating what is real and important to me...even if some of those things are changed or lost.

So, today, let's all feel a bit grateful for any bits of good love  ;)
For all the Eloise's and Louis's
For all the people who are unique for us whether they are in front of us or not
And for any bit of good love we can turn on ourselves too  ;)

Dealing with some not so easy things here, but determined to tackle them through a 'good love' lens  :)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 02:24:30 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2019, 02:43:15 AM »
Lovely late summer morning here and a run of good weather is forecast so I am going to work on refurbishing an old French daubed that has been in the shed waiting for my inclination and good weather. Currently it is a battered old mahogany but it will be a filled, primed rather beautiful cream painted beauty to curl up on in the winter! I will be happy as Larry (and who was Larry lol?) listening to podcasts and working on a pretty project in the sunshine.

Prompted by a discussion on the 'vanishers' thread about 'was my life with my spouse just a huge pointless waste'...not about doubting the reality of my memories or even that they were probably real then for my then h too, even if they are not now...but about how one values something that ended up here and that the other person apparently seems to see as completely without value....to talk about dreams.

My starting assumption is usually that dreams are nothing more than my subconscious brain doing some homework. I have always been given to having quite vivid dreams in colour and often being able to remember them when I wake up. I dreamed about my then h relentlessly in the first year or so. When I had PTSD I rarely dreamed at all about anything. So actually it is a bit odd to be dreaming again at all.

I have also had the odd dream in my life that felt different from that. Only a couple but dreams that turned out to be a sort of knowing that did in fact foreshadow something. I remember one from June 2014 that was about my father dying and my h disappearing lol. I was distressed for days...and there was no sign in my RL then that could have triggered the dream. It was inconceivable to me then...but it turned out to be a version of what happened. I am a bit wary though of putting too much weight on those kinds of dreams....too much potential for them to be wishes or fears rather than reality. But having said that, they don't happen often...but when they do they feel quite different from normal dreams. I think others here have had similar experiences?

These dreams were not that, but they do feel significant in some other way so I wanted to journal them here for my own benefit  ;)

The first...my xh had asked me to meet him in the bar of a central London hotel which used to be a special spot for us. I turned up, he looked kind of half him half not. A bit battered and overweight, but his eyes looked like him and he didn't feel dark if you know what I mean. He was flustered and a bit nervous. To be fair so was I. While he was ordering drinks, I went upstairs to the bathroom to centre myself a bit. In my dream I had no idea what he wanted to talk about and I had no agenda other than hearing him out, but being in that place was a bit unsettling bc it had a lot of good memories. Anyway, I headed back to the bar and found that our table for two had become a table for three. His aunt was there. (Tiny glamorous aging narcissist, used to be my friend, but she cut me dead too, she financed his runaway life and was at his wedding to ow). As I walked over, she was full of 'darlings, I am so happy to see you both here together blah blah...I know you have a lot to talk about so I won't stay but I have booked you a lovely table in the restaurant upstairs, all paid for as a special treat blah blah. My xh said nothing but looked. Dry uncomfortable. I didn't sit down. I just said 'whatever this is, no thank you...your f'ed up family dynamic is your business exh but I'm not playing. I put some cash on the table and left. While the porter was calling me a cab (I know, the old jokes ha ha...you're a cab  ;) ), xh came running out begging me to come back, that he would get rid of auntie, that he hadn't known she was going to do that. As I got in the cab, I said I don't care but no thank you...and left. I don't remember feeling very strong emotions other than feeling a bit sorry bc he seemed so pathetic and absolutely calm and clear that I wasn't playing.

My second dream last night was a bit weirder and my recollection a bit patchier. I was somewhere that looked a bit like a casino I suppose, lots of people around but I knew it was some kind of competitive tv show. People were sat at long tables with big bags in front of them. My xh was sat to my right. I knew it was him but strangely he actually looked like an old friend of mine from maybe 30 years ago. Xh had a sort of small 'gang' of supporters cheering him on, none of whom I recognised. The competition was a kind of puzzle treasure hunt against the clock where we had to look at things in the bag and figure out a series of actions. The prize was some kind of super amazing 5 star holiday and the location was determined by what was in the bag I think. I was on my own, wearing a deep blue dress that I do have in my wardrobe still I think but haven't worn for ages,  no cheerleading gang, and my xh and his gang were loudly mocking every thing I did, that I was going to lose, that I was stupid. And then other competitors including xh started haring off to other rooms while I sat there rummaging through the stuff in my bag and not being at all sure what to do. One of the small things in the bag was a kind of token with a face of s small Indian child on it which said if you use this 5p  token in the machine next door, you might lose but an unknown sum of money will definitely go to this child. So I went into the next room and everyone was on one side scrabbling around on anothdf big table - not sure what they were doing, but a big crowd, everyone very excited pushing and shoving and xh was right in the middle. I was stood on my own in front of a machine that looked a bit like one of those old fashioned arcade games. I put the token in and there was a ping sound, a bit like a text message ping. And everything stopped and everyone was silent and then a voice said 'congratulations, that was the trick test and you have won the holiday, yay!'. I felt surprised, that was all. End of dream.

So my subconscious is definitely working on something meaty...something positive probably...just not sure what lol.
but it was an odd experience post PTSD to be dreaming at all and that my xh was in both dreams with different faces.
But PTSD weirdness has taught me to respect the odd glitches in my brain a little more than I used to!
Certainly I know that my mindset is moving around and there are some bits being spun in my brain's washing machine currently about faith, forgiveness and what the point was for me of the life I shared with my xh. In fact I have been musing on finding a spiritual director to help me discern hopefully a better sense of what God wants me to be next....and what I need to do to follow that path. Maybe my upcoming hospital stuff that has prevented me from going to Tuscany is feeding a general kind of 'what's the point of me/my life' feeling? Idk.

Hmm prayer needed I think...found this quite helpful https://www.faithgateway.com/decoding-your-dreams/#.XVfRK9HTWf0

Thank you for tolerating my journaled weirdness  ;)

Off to put my work clothes on now and get my little sander out  :)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 03:07:11 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline forthetrees

  • MLCer Type: Vanisher
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3054
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2019, 04:44:47 AM »
That first dream sounded like a confirmation of having reached the point of being able to state and maintain boundaries and the second dream sounded like a level of healing at which compassion for others is a driving force in your personality. Perhaps the dreams were really more about you and exh was there for the contrast/highlighting of the differences in how you both negotiate the world.

What is a French daubed?
me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #60 on: August 17, 2019, 05:34:57 AM »
Sorry, ftt - typo - a french daybed, had it for years, we bought it after a long very boozy lunch in Nice as I recall in 2001 maybe? Paid about £50 for it and worried about how to get it back to the UK later  ::)

It has been repaired by my dad, slept on by cats and visiting small children, stretched out on by my then h reading, lived in 4 different homes. As I am sanding it and looking at the new repairs to make, it's a rather nice reminder of happy times and feels like I am picking up where my dad left off. (H and me always liked old furniture with a story but H was useless at that kind of repair thing, didn't have the patience for it lol...I suppose if xh follows the MLC script his new home will be wall to wall modern stuff  ::) )

Yup, the dreams do feel as if they are more about me and not so much about xh other than as a kind of background.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 05:36:50 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Mortesbride

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2461
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #61 on: August 17, 2019, 05:50:12 AM »
I had a weird ass dream last night.

Something happened that made me lose my eye. I am not really sure what it was, I sort of just entered the dream and my eyeball was literally in my hand. I remember being worried but calm. I thought to myself what should I do with my eyeball to store it until I get to the hospital, I guess I hoped if I kept it nice they could somehow reattach it.  ::)

So here I was stuck with three kids at the house, my eye ball sitting in a clear sand which bag with a bit of liquid in it...trying to figure out how I could get to the hospital.

I couldn't drive myself because my depth perception was shot. I couldn't call an ambulance and leave my three kids sitting alone in the house. I also knew time was running out. There would only be so long I could wait for them to be able to save my eye.

So I called Beast. I tried to tell him I needed him to come straight away to drive me to hospital. He was hostile on the phone saying ''I just watched the kids last night, I am not doing it again''. I pressed and said ''My eyeball is LITERALLY IN A BAGGY, I need your help''....and he went quiet. I hung up.

I just remember sitting in the dream trying to figure out what to do. How I was going to help myself in this dire situation and not having anyone to rely on.

Super Weird.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Milly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2651
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #62 on: August 17, 2019, 06:54:32 AM »
Treasur I agree that your dreams appear to be focused on you. I see a boundary and that you won the prize. Love the sound of your day bed, just my kind of thing.

Morte, your dream was hilarious! I hope you don’t take offense at me laughing.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2019, 05:07:54 AM »
Although some other crappy things are going on, I have been making some real concrete progress on lots of others. And as I do, I find it easier to be a bit kinder in judging all the ways I failed since BD. We do beat ourselves up so much sometimes don't we?

I was listening to a friend who lost her husband 8 years ago in a car accident. She just happened to be having a bad day, no big triggers, just one of those sad days. And she apologised for it after I listened but said I was one of the few people who never made her feel like there was an invisible clock. And I thought, well why would I? I know she lived her husband and her old life, I know she has rebuilt something different and survived. I also know that she misses him sometimes bc he was not replaceable to her. Life goes on but her life is not better for his loss, or even tbh what she wants even if she accepts that she can't have what she wants. If you met her, you wouldn't know that is was anything but ancient history. But it isn't for her and she hates - even if she understands - that pressure of others invisible clock. And I thought, well if I am fine with that for her, if that seems reasonable to me for her, why do I judge myself so harshly for feeling just the same? My h didn't physically die but tbh the effects were pretty much the same and de facto he is dead for me. I wonder if the invisible clocks - in others, in our heads, implied in the MLC stories - are rather unfair and unkind and unnecessary actually.

It also made me think after listening to her what I want. And how hard that is to find again after your life blows up. For a very long time, I just wanted what I couldn't have. And then I probably just wanted to get to some mystical other side where it would make some sense and wouldn't hurt so much. I am probably there. Or close enough. I no longer want what I can't have bc I have accepted it is gone. Can't have any of my family back or my old life or even the me I was before all of this stuff happened. I may not like it but there is peace in stopping fighting against it. And I have survived long enough to outlast the heart-ripping pain and the numb feeling of one foot in front of the other. That is worth celebrating bc I wasn't at all sure I would.

I wonder though if detaching from the horror and rollercoaster of someone else's crisis means that one can detach a bit too much overall? Idk.

I truly don't know what I want now. I'm not even sure I care enough about anything to really want it if that makes sense. But I want to want something bc I know it is normal and how life works when it works well. But how do you find that next step? I don't know. I was very disconnected from normal life and normal people by this experience. Partly bc I was almost mortally wounded so needed a cave. Mostly bc I felt different, different in myself and different from other normal folks. And pretending otherwise was frankly too damn exhausting...although I can do it now for a few hours even a day or so. And I am doing reconnecting kind of things. I can remember what it felt like to want things....for a long time I couldn't...but oh my word, that feels like a far away time and another life.

The closest I can get to is that it feels like knowing you need to eat but not being hungry, so you open the fridge door and just don't really feel drawn to any of it. And I remember being a hungry person before....I used to want lots of things and enjoyed the wanting and the planning and the doing of them...everything from a new work project to decorating a bedroom or throwing a party or looking forward to a shopping trip or visiting a friend. Normal wants....just not hungry anymore now. Weird. It isn't depression or anxiety, know what those feel like lol, it's something else...not sure I even have a label.

Anyone else had this? Or found any magical tricks to find the wanting again?  :)

So, I plod on trusting that it will come. Just as the darkest days slipped back, the wanting to want and knowing what I want will emerge. But it is frustrating that it hasn't and that I can't seem to make it happen just by going through the motions. Grrr.

Back to my day bed...progress delayed by showers...and the other stuff of life while I wait for wanting lol.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 05:20:15 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline One day at a time

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2019, 11:31:46 AM »
Yep, I know that feeling well.. I have absolutely no idea what I want!! I'm sort of "floating".. There's plenty in my life right now to keep me occupied with work, friends, etc but I know it's not a "full" life and yet I don't know what will make it fuller if that makes sense? My only fear is that I could stay in this different kind of limbo forever..  :P

I know eventually I want to have a partner but I'm not sure I'm ready and that's not really something I can plan for anyway. The rest? I don't know, so many things I liked or wanted before feel kind of irrelevant now.. I don't feel depressed either but it's like I have no real purpose anymore. So no wisdom here at all, let me know if you find some  ;)
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline Milly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2651
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2019, 03:04:17 PM »
Treasur, I recognize a lot of what you say. I believe that what your friend is experiencing with her mourning is very similar to what we go through as LBSs. I was at my IC this morning and she called my past 5 years since BD as having worked through a bereavement. I also told my cousin in Rome recently, that I've been through a bereavement, so not surprising that some of the stuff your friend is going through seems familiar to you.

The feelings or not feelings you say you are having: the not knowing what you want, the not caring enough about what you want, the opening the fridge thing, you say it's not depression, but I think it is a form of it. Oneday talks of feeling this way, too. I think it's a form of depression like our H's are going through. A place of being in crisis where we don't feel anything. It's not the classical depression where people can see it from the outside. It's like a walking depression. We look ok to everyone else, but we don't feel it, or worse, we don't feel anything. Nothing feels great any more.

I suspect this is similar to what our MLCers are experiencing. I don't know what it would take to get out of this 'flat' place. We talk all over HS about the MLCer having to look at his issues, having to look inside for happiness, having to realize they are the ones with the problem. I ask myself this, too. All I can say is that while we're feeling this way, I think it's very hard for others to give us the solution. If you're not hungry, opening the fridge kind of makes it worse I find. Could some of us be going through our own ML crisis or other personal identity crisis? what would it take for us to be happy? I know what we're thinking - if our spouses came home. Ok, that's plan A, but what is plan B? How else could we feel happy? I don't have the answer to this. I'm just saying that some of us might be feeling something similar to what the MLCer is feeling.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2019, 01:30:56 AM »
Idk if the feeling is similar. Hell idk what my then h now xh felt about anything really, or feels now.

But the 'flat' feeling is a good description, Milly.
My plan A is long gone...ha ha even my plan B and C  :) I suppose it was replaced by surviving. And now I have, I need a plan. But don't have one.
I am musing on wants in the back of my head while I do other things. As I do I notice a couple of things. I don't know what I want. I doubt that I will be able to have what I want anyway. Which means I suspect that I have lost faith in myself in some way.  And there is a difference between wants and needs.

And I wonder too if part of the 'longing for karma' feeling is about envy. I may think my xh's choices suck and were unfair but while I have been doing surviving grief, cancer, PTSD and dealing with the rubble of old lives, my xh got his wants didn't he? In the same time period, he got a divorce, new friends, a new home and a new wife - all without having to do much to tidy up the mess that was so overwhelming for me to do solo. I don't want what he has but perhaps I feel a mixture of envy and shame that he has done/got a lot while I was stuck in not wanting or knowing what to do. Maybe that is why we sometimes long for a sign that their 'moving on' turns into a pile of poo bc our survival bit was nothing but poo for a very long time? Of course rationally the poo of strangers has nothing to do with how much or little poo there is in my driveway right? And as a gardener, poo is a jolly good fertiliser for growing things lol. But I do envy that my xh got his wants when I didn't get any of mine really and don't know what I want now, that I was stuck and he was not. Maybe it is just that I paid a big price for his wants and it doesn't seem like he paid any price at all for them. Or for my not wants. Of course if my xh ever returns to someone closer to himself, then actually he has lost a lot including his wife and best friend....but something only counts as a loss if you value it doesn't it? Same for a gain I suppose.

with hindsight I think getting PTSD in a weird way saved my life by disconnecting me from things I couldn't cope with. But I also think that 3+ years out, it means I am probably doing now what a normal me would have been doing maybe 18 months ago....hence the feeling of needing to catch up with myself.

To challenge my own blind spots and assumptions, I do often make myself look through different lens. What would I be doing/feeling if he had died? Or if I thought of him as an addict? It is the biggest price of NC and having a vanisher that you just don't see what they have 'won' just what you have 'lost', i suppose, and it is very easy to assume they are normal again and their life is better. But of course the truth is idk...and it might make a difference to my emotions and doubts if I did know one way or the other, but it wouldn't change any of the practicalities of my own life. Most of how I feel and how my life is are as they would be if he had killed himself when he wanted to in 2015/16. I'd be labelled as a widow not a divorcee and I'd have more money, but that's about it. And if he was an addict? I guess I would be practically in much the same boat, but I would assume that his life was poo bc he was an addict, that no matter what it looked like in RL the poo of addiction was inevitable and that addicts always lie and pretend everything is just fine. I wouldn't want him back, I'd probably worry about him but try not to, and I would never doubt for a moment that his new addict life was worse than his old life. Nor would I ever believe that I could have foreseen or prevented his fall into addiction. Funny how our brain works differently through different lens isn't it? Obviously there IS a bit of me that thinks he has 'won' and I have 'lost'. Not sure why. Maybe I just need more wins and wants so it won't matter. But I honestly think that is why we crave the karma bus evidence and feel delighted when others in similar situations report that they see it.

Funnily enough I have just remembered that, a few months before his wedding, he said on the phone - pretty much apropos of nothing as I recall - that the only thing he had in his life that mattered was his job and if he lost that, everything would fall apart and he didn't think he would survive that. Idk if that was about money or the structure of the job or something deeper about his sense of self. But it was a weird thing to say given what else was going on in his life then. Not what my former h would have ever said bc other things mattered much more. But imagine that is/was true? If working for a bank at a mid-level position was the bulwark between you and complete nothingness? Doesn't sound like much of a win does it?

My best guess on getting me out of the flat place is to a) keep moving and assume that momentum is a real universe thing lol, b) trust that if I used to want, I will again bc that is normal for me and c) aim for 'proof of life' basics and look out rather than in if I can't see the big wants yet.

What would a real normal alive person do lol? Bit too long for a tattoo WWARNAPD ha ha, but I guess you know what I mean  :)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 02:44:17 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2019, 04:06:09 AM »
PS prompted by giving Watcher a 1x2 about his 'lost' time, occurs to me that the same is true for me. I kept my mother safe. I cleared and sold two houses. I jumped out of a plane and kayaked for the first time. I moved twice. I cleared through 20 years of our life and 50+ of my parents life.  I healed from cancer and PTSD. I made two gardens and an allotment. I did not beg for my m once divorce was on the table or contest it or try to delay it in any way. I accepted incomprehensible realities about how he would behave towards me and stopped expecting better. I looked after Louis and loved him until his last breath. I have never let myself be sucked into reacting to the ow/xh dramas or treated my xh unfairly or with disrespect. I honoured my vows. I got the help I needed and worked hard to get mentally healthy again. I chose NC for good reasons and wisely. I did not snoop, stalk or badmouth anyone else in public. Over and over again, I kept trying to choose the high road not the vindictive one. I chose not to hate my h although I had every reason to do so. I accepted a relentless series of changes that I did not want to accept. I found faith and fought hard to hold on to it. I was grateful for every small blessing. I kept getting up. I am still here. I dealt with these last few years as honestly and with as much strength and grace as I could muster. I made jam. I learned to do things without the support or love of my family. I cried honestly and asked for help when I had to. I gave up on my m, and my h, but I did not in the end give up on believing that the world is a good place with lots of good people in it and I am one of them  :)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 04:07:48 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Gettingbackup

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 74
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #68 on: August 21, 2019, 04:13:45 AM »
So beautifully said Treasur.  and inspirational.
M42 exH 40 | Met 2001 | Married 2003 | BD1 May 2016 | Final BD Nov 2016 | OW1&2 EAs in 2009. Separated 2 months.
S6 born 2013. Cancer and lost baby 2014.
OW3 PA Dec 2015-May 2016. OW3 broke it off. | OW4 PA from July 2016. OB in March 2019.
Divorce final May 2019.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #69 on: August 22, 2019, 01:21:45 AM »
Bit of beachbwalk thinky...

Gosh, focusing on what I did rather than what I didn't seems to have unblocked something. We LBS feel on the back foot for so long don't we? Understandable really bc our spouse decided to unilaterally pretty much obliterate our old lives. I think we get caught in fire fighting that for a long time.

With hindsight, my life became all about 'not wants'.

Back to wants. The only 'want' I had in the last couple of years was to run here to this little place by the sea. I have never regretted that choice. So, that's one success. I have spent my whole life creating or building towards 'wants'. Homes, career, a business. And I don't have those things now, or not as I created them. Actually my m was not something I intentionally 'wanted' in that way looking back. My beloved and how I felt about him sort of appeared and my life adapted to that. Getting married was never a 'want' for me that I intentionally built; I just really liked being with the person who was my h. Funny bc getting divorced wasn't an intentional 'want' either lol.

And with hindsight, in the few years before BD, i stopped building towards 'wants' for me. I focused on 'wants' for us in moving and renovating the old house and in the year before BD I focused on trying to sustain my family while my father was dying. More time and head space on that meant less available for me. I suspect I even stopped thinking about my 'wants' actually, just my needs perhaps...and a lot of not wants. But there is a kind of creating that is part of who I am, I think, a feeling of having a plan or at least an intention towards a kind of next page. And then life events tore everything up and I didn't even know what page I was on let alone what I wanted the next page to be. Everything was not wants or avoiding even worse not wants. Most of which happened anyway lol.

The daybed I am renovating, and currently painting in the garden, is a bit of a timely representation. I have been thinking about what I want it for, and want from it, as part of renovating it. Bc I could have just thrown it away. It was bought in different times for our first home, for an exact spot in a bay window. Then my father repaired and adapted it for another spot in another home....my h loved to stretch out on it, so did the cats. Part of deciding how to refurbish it for here required me thinking about how I wanted to use it and where....bc tbh I still have too much furniture in this little house for someone living alone. More seats than bums lol.

I think refurbishing the day bed is a sign that part of me thinks there will be other cats and other bums on my seats than just mine, that it is a want. I think it means that stretching out with a good book on a long comfy daybed is a want. I think it means that having pretty and one of items in my home is a want bc it pleases my spirit. I think refurbishing some of the old things to look quite different or be used differently instead of throwing them all away is a want for more than just a daybed. I think doing things with my own hands is a want.

All of which makes me feel that my After Life may be less about a brand new one - and isn't that a huge pressure to put on oneself  ::) - and more about a carefully refurbished one. Picking out the pieces to upcycle from what I have. And where the only thing that matters is if I like it, really like it, feel a sense of accomplishment from refurbishing something unique perhaps.

I really loved my h and I would never have chosen to throw him away. But he left nothing to refurbish...it was like he took an axe to the metaphorical daybed of our relationship. There isn't enough wood glue or primer in the world to fix that lol. I shall probably never really understand what happened to my h or the cause of it...not enough info to do more than guess really. However from his POV I became a not want, maybe his old self was a not want, and his wants were a new life with a new wife...and he wanted that enough to burn the metaphorical house down no matter what happened to me, my family or our friends.

 I didn't stop standing bc I didn't love my h or value our m. I did it bc there was nothing of real substance or value left to stand for. Rightly or wrongly, I don't believe there's enough left of who my h was in my eyes to refurbish...I guess ow sees it differently and has made a chair from the bits of a daybed perhaps lol. Which is good enough for them but would not have been enough for me to put the effort in to refurbish if that makes sense. Too much damage and woodworm and big cracks in the frame. So, truthfully, I stopped wanting my h back a long time ago and I don't even want to see him or talk to him actually. I don't know how I would feel if at some point in the future he contacted me and looked like he had done his own repair work, if he was recognisably a daybed again rather than a rather ugly awkward chair. I hope I would be gentle with both of us bc he was a great daybed and I only had the daybed (the real one) bc the two of us were together in Nice, a bit drunk and happy and enjoying creating our first home together. Bc of all those years of daybed moments of cats and books and curling up together on the old daybed.

Curing the wanting thing for me is about moving away from the not want mindset. Everything from the situation with my mother to cats, money, business...I have been stuck in a dealing with the not wants for so long that it has sort of polluted my viewpoint.
And recognising that building and a next page is a really important part of how I am in the world.
And that perhaps there is more of a wanting in me for cats and other bums and pretty things and a life to share than I knew...so while I do the next coat, I shall start mentally listing a few wants and come up with a plan for how I can focus more energy on the wants and less on thd mess of the not wants. Or how I can look at my not wants with want glasses lol.

I apologise if this sounds a bit incoherent or silly, but the influence of not wants as opposed to wants feels like a big deal for me. Maybe bc of some other stuff going on, I am tired of energy dealing with not wants. I remember what a wants life felt like and it feels time to refurbish and live like that again. Just without the family I used to share my wants with and who helped me sometimes I suppose.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 01:31:28 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Whyus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3346
  • Gender: Male
Re: More After Life
« Reply #70 on: August 22, 2019, 01:46:33 AM »
It sounds like a walk on the beach can be a good start to the day T, I sure loved my beach/cliff walks whilst on Holidays :-).
Oh god, I Need another Holiday already  ;D
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. Is tolerated by LaFamiglia
2 Sons - 20 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2019, 01:47:40 AM »
I am very lucky to live here, WhyUs  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Whyus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3346
  • Gender: Male
Re: More After Life
« Reply #72 on: August 22, 2019, 01:55:18 AM »
I am very lucky to live here, WhyUs  :)
Its not luck treasur, you wanted it and you went for it and you got it! That is a Display of pure class and strength if you ask me :-)
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. Is tolerated by LaFamiglia
2 Sons - 20 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #73 on: August 22, 2019, 02:42:18 AM »
Thanks, chum  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #74 on: August 23, 2019, 12:08:47 AM »
Had news from an old university friend last night that the husband of another old friend killed himself a week ago. Depression, a year of crazy stuff in the run up, long marriage, adult kids. I wrote her a note and as I wrote it, I was thinking that it could have been my situation so easily. I think what vanishers do tbh is a different kind of killing themselves....they keep breathing and make a new life...but they kill off who they were and every trace of their old life as much as they can. Would I rather my then h got an ow and an other life rather than a bottle of pills? Yes, yes I would. And my reality is that I live as if the h I knew is dead. I find that easier, somehow that is what makes sense to me albeit in a weird way bc I know he is not literally dead. Well as far as I know.

But the not so comfortable truth is that my pain and the impact on my life would have been more accepted by others in RL if he had taken the pills...people would have understood the story of severe depression=suicide. Whereas depression=WTF unrecognisable crazy=divorce/ow success story? That isn't the same at all is it? No one (well apart from me maybe) would have judged me if my then h had killed himself after he had been diagnosed; it didn't occur to me to judge my old friend to whom I wrote the note. Depression is an illness, people get that. But they don't get the kind of depression we see unravel in our spouses bc the common picture of depression is different. It would not have changed many of my emotions or my grief or my effort to let go of the person who did this while holding on to my love for who they were before they did it. I can imagine all too easily what my friend and her family will be struggling with, and for how long. But the 'why' would have been more understood by others and that would have helped me with my own doubt I think. All those chattering monkeys we know so well.

Maybe that is why HS is so important for some of us long after the worst of MLC is out of our lives. Bc it is one place where you can say 'they did this' and people will just nod gently and say yup, that is pretty common. A place where you can bring the things that make no sense to you at all and be reassured that you are not delusional or unhinged. All the little spats and different opinions and outcomes really don't matter compared to that, do they? The ability to nod gently and say yup, that happens often and you are not crazy and it isn't your fault....I suspect that has saved more lives than we know. And I am grateful for every person here who, sometimes unknowingly, has showed up and given someone else just enough to keep going.

This Ted talk says more than I can about healing as a human and why connection matters https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=TED+talk+about+trauma%2c+change+and+resiliency+by+Dr.+Meagan+McElheran&view=detail&mid=656E3B5BB1283C606062656E3B5BB1283C606062&FORM=VIRE
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 12:51:21 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding Joy

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 358
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #75 on: August 23, 2019, 07:10:47 AM »
Treasur, that is so true.  People in RL do not understand and want us to get on with life much sooner than we are capable.  I have often thought that had my h died or would be easier than this, but of course am glad he is not dead.  But, he is dead in a way.  It is yet to be seen if he will ever ‘resurrect’.

I can see how with a Vanisher they just seem like they are dead, and I guess a huge part of them is.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Mortesbride

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2461
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #76 on: August 24, 2019, 04:27:27 AM »
I think we must all think about the Dead vs MLCer debate.

I suppose our views as LBS will vary as well depending on what type of MLCer we have.

I remember the first year or so, when he was proper bad monster...and I felt like it was going to keep going down hill...I remember thinking ''at least if he had died, I would have been able to keep all the good memories''. I suppose at that time you are having to review your entire history. Did he really love me in that picture or was he already gone? Were we really happy or was it in my brain? How long until he abandons his kids and hurts them even more? Hundreds of those questions a day. The pictures had to come off the wall.

So at the time I thought at least if he had died in a freak accident...people would support you, they would lend a hand, we could share happy stories of ''remember when'' with a smile on our face, you could speak to your children about how amazing their father was...how he was in heaven watching over them...or something like that. After a period of mourning your perfect love, you would eventually come to a place to move on...and still have faith in people and love. That love could be beautiful and real, even if it was tragically lost all of a sudden.

With MLC the whole story and history starts to feel tainted. At what point where they no longer in and you didn't even realise? In which picture were they already planning their escape? How long have you been a fool thinking all was good? I can only imagine this feeling compounds with people who have vanisher's or those who move on quickly into new relationships with Om/Ow. That self doubt will eat away your soul if you let it. People tell you just to move on, be happy for them, don't be a crazy ex.  ::) All the while you can see that they are not themselves. You wonder how it is no one else can see it? Not for a few years anyway....then they all start to notice that maybe it wasn't you after all...and for what? By then the damage is already done. You get validation when you no longer need it. You have had to fight an internal battle to revise your own story and history. You no longer believe in fairy tale type love...memories come with both a twinge of happiness and sadness rolled up in one...

Then love has to become about...growing, forgiving, and standing for what you believe in....or it becomes about self respect, strength, and making the best out of what you have been given. A daily choice. Stand or move one. A choice that likely changes day to day... and even when you think you have decided one ''Boom'' curve ball might be having you change your mind.  ::)

I am not even going to get into the financials but there is a huge difference between the two here as well.

Yet no matter how bad MLC is...how devastating...there is still a minuscule chance that person can come back.

So which is better? Hard to say, and will likely depend on the outcome overall for each individual LBS.

In the beginning I felt death would have been better. Simply so I could keep our history, I could smile when his name was mentioned, I could tell my children amazing stories about their father.... ''I, I, I''. I softly suggest that thinking they should have died instead is perhaps from our own selfish pain filled place.

Now..now I am not glad he is in MLC or whatever...but I am glad he is in that if the other option was death. I am still sad I had to go through the questioning of our relationship. I am sad about the emotional pain explosion that was in that time. But he is still alive. He is still horribly lost and confused in a selfish world...but he is making effort with his kids. He is at least finding his way back to them. Even if he doesn't find his way back to me, and he remains 'dead' in that sense....at least he isn't dead for them. My perspective has shifted to a ''I hope he finds himself again, even if it isn't for my benefit''. So somewhere along the way...probably when the emotional wave receded, and the brain was able to kick in  ::)... it stopped being about me, and my pain, and what it has done to me....and became about what it could be in the future for them.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 04:31:17 AM by Mortesbride »
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #77 on: August 24, 2019, 04:59:28 AM »
Wise thoughts, Morte.
Yup, I think it changes with time and I think it depends on your situation. In your case with kids, there is something better worth hoping for for him and them, if not for you or your m. For those of us without kids, I guess it might not matter so much.

My mental 'he's dead' creation is a completely selfish one. It helps me to dodge any wish to contact him and it helps me to preserve a good dollop of my own memories and things I treasured about him. And I have had practice doing life after bereavement lol so I suppose it is familiar to me.  The slight taint is there but maybe this is my way of fighting it bc I have lost too many people to be able to just shrug it/him all off as an unfortunate horrible two decade mistake on my part at my age perhaps.

Tbh I think each LBS makes a couple of fundamental decisions along the way, in their own way and when they are ready.
The first is some version of was the person I knew real or is this just a full on version of who they really were/are
The second,  maybe linked to that, is if we believe that something close to that person might exist again or if we see them as permanently overwritten.

Imho there is no 'right' answer...just the one that feels 'right' to us and that serves our own ability to move forward best. Having a vanisher and a speedily remarried xh puts a spin on it probably, as does having a wacky boomerang who turns up and talks occasionally even if they don't make much sense lol. Or indeed having a fire-spitting monster. And of course what I believe to be true in my situation does not mean it is true for others, or even that time and events might not prove me wrong in mine. I just think we all reach a point with the mess of it when we need to hang our hat on something we can make peace with.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 05:06:34 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline One day at a time

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #78 on: August 25, 2019, 12:53:14 AM »
Quote
So at the time I thought at least if he had died in a freak accident...people would support you, they would lend a hand, we could share happy stories of ''remember when'' with a smile on our face
And this is the other aspect of MLC.. The memories don't only become tainted for us LBSs but for our families and friends who first try their best to support us but then speak about our spouses like they are despicable creatures that don't deserve a second of our time.. They see everything black or white. And at least for me, it's really making it hard to keep the good memories because what everyone around me talks about is the last 2 years, not the previous 15. And right now it feels rather pointless to think about the 15 years because it will keep me stuck in the past and I want to focus in the future.

Treasur, I agree with you that when you don't have kids, if the MLCers get better or not is irrelevant unless you are hoping for reconciliation. Or at least that's just me, I have tried to be the better person, be loving and compassionate from the distance but I guess I have my limits. I'm looking at how/where I hang my hat, right now that's the most sensible for me at least.
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #79 on: August 25, 2019, 02:01:20 AM »
It has helped me that my uncle, probably bc he lost his wife and his brother too (my father), is comfortable to talking about the reality and memories of who they all were before we lost them. He is as dumbfounded by what happened to make my then h so unrecognisable as I am...but it is nice to be able to sometimes share the good memories. It is very hard for people in RL, particularly those who value us and who didn't see what we saw maybe, to not focus on recent events. To not see them as shoddy despicable people bc tbh MLC spouses DO behave like shoddy despicable people don't they? I wonder actually if everyone touched by it goes through a sort of similar process...disbelief first, then they lose respect, then they stop believing in the pre MLC person until they just want to stop thinking about them at all.

Hang your hat, my friend. And trust that when you do, with time, a bunch of those memories will shuffle around and you will be able to reclaim them in a different way. But it takes time and distance from the MLC version probably lol.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #80 on: August 26, 2019, 12:55:23 AM »
Beautiful early morning sunshine here as we are having an unusually warm late August. I grew up in hot climates so I like this kind of weather....early mornings warming up and soft warm dusks. Last coat on my refurbished daybed today. And then I'll need to work out how to manoeuvre it into the house lol...suspect I will need to ask a neighbour to help  :)

This morning on my beach walk I bumped into Nell and Sandy her dog. Don't know them well but most people know Sandy bc she waits outside the little local store when Nell goes inside to shop. And she has the loveliest sweet face. Sandy the dog that is although Nell is very nice too! Anyway Sandy has hurt her paw and Nell, who is very slightly built, was carrying her home so I offered to help. Not sure how helpful I was lol...not a dog owner...but Sandy enjoyed the TLC I think and Nell the distraction of a chat. Nell has several pets, most rescued from ill treatment, and it made me muse on how that kind of cruelty is another kind of cruelty I don't understand. But my not understanding it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And why I am still so indecisive about getting another cat or not.
How much I still miss Louis....and how much pleasure and fun I have had from all the cats who have been in my life and part of my family, each one quite different in character. Anyway, it was a nice neighbourly way to start my day  :)

While I have been painting, I have been thinking about Not Wants and Wants. I think BD and all the things that come with it spiral us into a time when life becomes almost all about fighting against Not Wants. For about two years almost everything in my life was a Not Want. And it was tilting at windmills really because hardly anything I did made any difference at all  :)...not to cancer or death or dementia or my h's behaviour or divorce or even my own ability to cope. Made me wonder if our brains are affected by this kind of Not Want time, if it affects the plasticity of how our brains work bc in a way we learn from the way our actions impact our environment don't we? I wonder if that got my brain stuck in a kind of strange loop really. It is called functional neuroplasticity apparently when our brains get rewired from what and how we learn. Not Want living seems to be to be almost entirely defensive. But it might explain why it feels so confusing and tricky to shift to Wants from Not Wants?

The beginning of my Wants stage came with wanting peace and safety. It sounds silly but that was quite a different feeling from Not Wanting crazy chaos or fear. Gentler. More constructive. More gratitude. I am still finding it strangely difficult - like the cat issue - to be clear sighted about what I DO want but I am beginning to see bits and beginning to try to convert my Not Wants to Wants. So I don't want my mother to be a lost shell in dementia...but given that she is, with all that goes with that, can I make something from that to Want? And what can I do to get that Want? So I can create a different kind of learning loop in my brain. I am using this holiday weekend to come up with the beginning of a list lol.

It has helped me realise a couple of things though. How accustomed I have become to Not Want thinking, big and small. It is insidious actually and a bit weird to realise that. I have also realised that the way I used to plan and act on my plans before this chain of events is not a way I can fall back into right now. It may work again for me in the future but it doesn't work for me now. It is as if I have lost part of my old toolbox and I am hunting around for some new tools and skills. A new way to move towards Wants. It's funny bc I often ask people I coach to reflect on whether their issues are a scratch or an itch...a scratch being something you want to move away from and an itch being something you want to move towards. It is a very different kind of energy and a different lens. My life since 2014 has been almost entirely about the scratches. Now I am trying to listen quietly to what God and my own spirit sees as the itches. If nothing else, I have learned that I am not my best self when I let my life become a Scratch-driven one. Not sure why, but that doesn't work for me or motivate me enough to act consistently on it.

I wonder if MLC feels more about the scratch or the itch? More about Not Wants or Wants? Idk.

Ha ha...so all that and a refurbished painted daybed too  :)...not bad for a couple of days in the sun.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline KeepItTogether

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4941
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #81 on: August 26, 2019, 10:53:05 AM »
If nothing else, I have learned that I am not my best self when I let my life become a Scratch-driven one. Not sure why, but that doesn't work for me or motivate me enough to act consistently on it.


I don't think any of us are really. Constantly putting out the proverbial fires, and thus not really listening to that soft inner voice of those Wants.

Love that you are refurbishing that daybed. I painted 2 end tables this weekend. Felt very accomplished!
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline One day at a time

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #82 on: August 27, 2019, 01:49:24 PM »
I actually started reading about neuroplasticity 6 months before BD1.. I was going through a tough time, a lot of anxiety and negativity.. I didn't know what was happening but I knew I needed some kind of help and someone recommended a course that had to do with neuroplasticity and positive thinking.. Looking back now I do wonder if I was going through my own MLT or something.. Anyway, to make a long story short, I made a half attempt to do something about how I was feeling but I wasn't really invested. My guess is that it was down to my life being "good enough" at the time so working on myself was not a priority... 6 months later, BOOM! and then I had more "pressing" issues like fixing my H and marriage  ::) 

And then H walked away and I also got stuck in a world of not wants. But eventually I realized that regardless if I wanted things or not, they were happening anyway and I needed to accept them. So like your example about your mum having dementia.. Off course that's something you don't want but it's happening and resisting it doesn't get you anywhere, it won't change.. But if you decide that you, let's say, want to make sure she's comfortable, then you can work with that and be happy when you see that you were able to make that happen for her..  And that can help bring some positivity into a very sad but unchangeable situation.

There's a sort of life coach that I follow (Spanish guy so not much point in sharing his name) and he says that everything is neutral, it's all about how we interpret things. Obviously bad things happen and they are hard for everyone to handle but it's important to eventually accept and work from there. The other very interesting thing he says is that sometimes people need to suffer to get to a point where they want to look within themselves..  And at least for me this is actually true. I wasn't happy the last couple of years of my marriage but it had nothing to do with H, it was all me. But life was not hard enough for me then or I wasn't suffering enough to really do anything about it. It took for my life to be blown to pieces to actually understand that a lot of my own behaviors were causing my unhappiness back then.

I know you always mention how long it took you to get to a better place but maybe that time was actually necessary for you to really push yourself to do something about it.  Off course all of us would prefer not to go through this nightmare to learn very important life lessons but maybe we wouldn't have learnt them if this awful MLC hadn't touched our lives.. Or at least this is what I keep telling myself.. so I can be positive when I look at the ashes of my previous life. I still have no idea what I want btw! But I still feel positive about my life.. most of the time.
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #83 on: August 28, 2019, 12:19:44 AM »

A lot of what you say makes sense, One Day.
I have beaten myself up a lot, and often, about how lost and stuck I was. But tbh I did what I could in the circumstances I was in...I wish I could have done better or quicker or stronger...I felt guilty and envied other LBS here who apparently could...but I couldn't. And no amount of beating myself up changed that lol. I often knew what I should do....just couldn't consistently do it. And it makes it really hard to be kind to oneself and when the world feels so unkind, we need any bit of kindness we can find don't we? Real kindness - not the less healthy victim feeding sort - but honest robust kindness is a powerfully healing thing I think. And we need to dig it out of ourselves if we don't happen to have many folks around us to give it.

I remember reading a book written by a woman whose brother had been in a PVS coma after an accident, all about the impact on her and her family. Years of it no matter how brave they were. She said that there was something about the relentlessness of the blows, that it just kept happening and it never got easier....and that after a while it just drained them to the point where they had no more left in them. And I remember feeling like that. Feeling tbh that living was just too damn hard for the fuel I had left in me. That isn't how I feel now most of the time although it pops up occasionally....I suppose it just takes a lot of effort and faith to dig oneself out of the abyss of Not Wants and you get tired of it.

But as you say there is a rock bottom point in that too, a crossroads, when you give up or find a different path. The truth is that the last three years of my life have been an avalanche of Not Wants. Looking back, the only Want was moving here by the sea...and that was a really good thing in all kinds of unexpected ways. Our emotions stop things being neutral don't they? Understandably...but changing how we see something probably is the only way to shift from Not Wants to Wants. Doing that though probably requires acknowledging that too much time in Not Want land dents your confidence and belief that you can get any of your Wants again....it's that learned helplessness that comes after a long exhausting period of tilting at windmills and feeling relentlessly punched in the face by life isn't it? But I don't believe that this is how life used to feel and that means it does not have to continue to feel that way forever right?

If I list my Not Wants...and it is a long list lol...some of them, actually most of them now I think about it, are battles already lost and events that I could not change. Stuff that just happened. My windmill tilting was mostly about trying to reduce the damage somehow...but I mostly failed at that too tbh. Maybe bc it was an impossible task. Or bc other people's choices had a stronger impact than mine. And a few conclusions from that...one is that some battles were a waste of time...and that there are two different kinds of Wants to focus on now. Wants that are converted from Not Wants...like my mother and the loss of my father and the disappearance of my h and the end of my marriage and my own health problems. None of those are good things but can I find a new Want bc of them? Maybe in spite of them? And then there are the New Wants which are separate from all of that...and they feel harder to envisage I think bc I am tired and I have lost faith in myself. I shall start with actions to convert the Not Wants I think...and have faith that this will encourage me to believe in what I can do more than what I haven't been able to do.

On a funny (and slightly frustrating) side note, my daybed won't quite fit through the turning circle of the door. Gah! I was convinced it would and had measured it. I asked some neighbours to help me...and we tried and tried...but nope. So I need to find a carpenter and come up with a plan B that probably involves making one end detachable...unfortunately something beyond my carpentry skills  ::) But perhaps a good metaphor for not giving up at the first failure and for the benefit of stubborn creativity when something is important to you. I used to have that quality and maybe the daybed is an instrument for reviving it lol. So I will try to find a carpenter today  :)....and hope it stays dry for a few more days! I am imagining how good it will feel to solve the problem and taking that principle into some other current problems too  :)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 01:18:03 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9075
  • Gender: Male
  • Live like they are never coming back
Re: More After Life
« Reply #84 on: August 28, 2019, 01:37:24 AM »
Treasur,

Maybe a silly question but..... if you stand the daybed on it's end, is the door tall enough for it to pass under?  I've had similar experiences where it just seemed impossible to get a piece of furniture in or out of a door in any conventional way and then an idea like standing it on end comes and Voila! it works.....

As far as the Not/Wants...... (More Wisdom from mom with her shrink hat on) - It is invariably easier to find things that we do NOT want... they are all around us. To find what we DO want though takes time and energy and work. That is why many people go the "Negation" way of "No, I don't want <xyz>" It is MUCH easier to shoot down the options that some one else is coming up with than to come up with their own.  IOn a personal side, it may be though that we need to conserve the resources we have for a particular amount of time and are, therefore, in the NOT WANT mode..... and sometimes, as you noted, those "Not Wants"show us the way to the "Wants."

I see that in my own situation as in I do NOT want someone in my life that needs to be continuously reassured and propped up.... That then translates to I WANT someone in my life who is self-secure and has a healthy self-esteem..... Migrating from Not Want to Want allows us then to focus better... Rather than the Not want mode of "try, nope, next, try, nope, next, ad. nauseum" we start to look for what we DO want and can save ourselves a LOT of heartache, hassle and grief.... Another example is that I do NOT want to wait any longer for others to figure out what my calling is so I have taken charge and start a class next week because I WANT to further myself in a way that is independent of what the "ones that need to decide" choose....
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #85 on: August 28, 2019, 01:56:48 AM »
Made contact with a carpenter and waiting for him to call back re date/time...look Ma, no avoidance or procrastination yay  ;)...and he is popping over for a quick look in the next 30 minutes.

Not a silly question at all UM....I'm normally good at the whole spatial thing (my xh was amusingly awful so it was always fun to watch...always made me chuckle that his schoolboy dream was to be in the Navy and captain a ship...hmmm, lots of oops potential there   :) )..it will go in through the door but then needs to twist to fit through the second door. Either end on or sideways, the angle/length is about two inches away from success. It is one of those 'almost does'....which is why i thought it would...but gah laws of physics and maths grrr.

Your point about Not Wants feels inherently spot on to me, something about how humans are wired, maybe something about how trauma and stress increase that even. But yeah, that 'try, nope, try again, nope' process is exhausting and a bit disheartening. I like your example of the class though, of seeing something you can do even if it doesn't address the bit that rests outside your control. Feels like a very practical example of an act of faith doesn't it? That if God had an intention for us...and if he does, I believe it is ultimately a good and loving one...is there a time when we stop waiting to know what it is but trust that if we start walking anyway he will intervene as we go to show us if we are on the right path or not? Maybe. Maybe if I have lost faith in me, I can have faith in him until I get some of mine back  :)

Also a quick discussion with Alvin has made me think about fear. If it is still affecting me and the Wants quest. I was so afraid for such a long time when my PTSD hat was on, even frightened of feeling frightened loopy as that sounds. Afraid of phones and trains and emails and decisions and paperwork and talking to people....crazy I know...that is not where I am now bc I got help and fought my way out. But I'm frightened of something....something about me not being enough in some way I suspect or of the cost of trying and failing again maybe. It isn't as obvious or as dramatic as the old fear feeling...that was crippling...so I thought I was past the fear but I'm not sure that's true. Ah, the delights of post-PTSD After Life  :)...my brain will vomit it up I'm sure if I let it sit for a while. If it doesn't, I'll go back to see my EMDR woman.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 01:58:49 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Mortesbride

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2461
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #86 on: August 28, 2019, 03:03:57 AM »
As for the wants vs not wants discussion....

I kinda think up some crazy incredible dream that I want...then ask myself what steps I need to achieve it, then work my way back.

So for instance...

I wanna go scuba diving one day...so I will need scuba lessons...before that I need to get back into swimming regularly....and it would probably help if I was as fit and healthy as I can be... and I can't do that until the kids are in school long enough I have spare time. (This is your brain leading you from Dream -> Reality -> Obstacles -> then some people have another phase here of negative self talk ''I can't do it'' ''I'll never afford it'' type stuff).

So...starting from the bottom...(if you suffer negative self talk, tell yourself to shut up) then in my example the kids are now in school long enough I have spare time (defeat of obstacle 1)...so next step is to get back to swimming, and get as fit and healthy as I can (Obstacle 2).

After I am comfortable with progress there I might look into some fun scuba lessons on a weekend the kids are away... or a class or something....which will have scuba diving become part of my reality.

Then when I am comfortable at that level I will do ''the dive''and achieve my dream.

And we all know that the only thing to do after achieving your dream is to think up another crazy dream to achieve.  :)

But this same process works with anything. Big or small. It doesn't have to be something so outlandish I am just trying to give a working example.

For you it might be:

Want to go to Paris -> Need the money to buy a ticket -> Need a Passport -> Need to get time off work -> Need to save up money -> Worried about going alone or plane crashing or some other negative self talk.

So you tell yourself ''if I die in a plane crash at least it was quick and I didn't feel anything '' ---at least that's what I told myself at 17 when I flew over here.  :P

Then you tell  yourself ''who else better to spend time with than myself! I am amazing and awesome and x, y, z''

So you start to save the money, you book your holidays off, you sort out your passport, you buy the ticket... a blamo! Eating snails in no time.   ;D

I hope that made some semblance of sense.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #87 on: August 28, 2019, 03:38:49 AM »
Makes huge sense, Morte.
The puzzling thing for me has been to have to start to relearn it bc 'start at the end and work backwards' was mostly how I approached both my personal and professional life. It was second nature to me...until I stuck out my hand and couldn't find it as a tool. My brain just stopped being able to do it if that makes sense. Very weird feeling, probably a bit like learning to walk or use a hand after an accident maybe. Your brain sends the signal but doesn't get through somehow. And if it does, it doesn't get work the way it did.
So, I guess that just means I have to do things more consciously and intentionally that I used to do without thinking...until they become normal again.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #88 on: September 01, 2019, 09:34:50 AM »
Decided today that as health problems got in the way of me going to Tuscany, I would make another plan for my wedding anniversary in Sept and my birthday in Oct. got in touch with a couple of friends for a bit of support bc my plans are a mixture of pleasure and a bit of intentional letting go of old places that mean a lot to me...so a friend by my side will help  :)

But I am setting some concrete targets now and acting on them bc I really want my birthday to feel like a fresh start, the beginning of a new year for me.

Funnily enough I have always like autumn...probably my favourite time of year...and I associate it with beginnings. Like the start of a university year. Or maybe it is just my inner six year old that wants a new pencil case  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Milly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2651
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #89 on: September 01, 2019, 09:57:49 AM »
I'll be interested in hearing your plans for your birthday, Treasur. My birthday is October, too, and I'm facing it completely alone this year for the first time ever. It's tempting to do nothing and feel sorry for myself so I welcome any ideas. Shame we don't live closer and made a special night of it together!
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #90 on: September 01, 2019, 10:03:25 AM »
I've booked a ticket to see my favourite opera -Glucks's Orfeo which is rarely staged but is at the ENO in London the day before my birthday. Last (and first) time I saw it was a last minute spontaneous trip organised by my h to see it at the Buxton Festival in 2014. Then staying with old friends who will come with me to revisit a bit of London where I used to live which has a fantastic Sunday market and a lot of good memories!

I'm not giving up on you or Italy though Milly  :)...prosecco is a must...just give me time to clear my decks here and I'll book a trip  :)....still fancy going to Verona for the opera some day...
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Milly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2651
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #91 on: September 01, 2019, 11:21:21 AM »
Your plan sounds great, actually, pretty amazing!

Do come to Italy! That would be lovely!
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #92 on: September 03, 2019, 03:23:54 AM »
Here is where I am and, finally, it feels like where I should be, an appropriate place.
I am saying goodbye to people and places and things.
Bc I have accepted realities I just couldn't accept earlier.
And saying goodbye also allows me to say hello to other things.

What has changed? Ah well, time hey ho. And healing. And no longer wanting to be where I was.
Funnily enough, life is no better per se bc there are some new challenges but I feel better.
I truly have been the Queen of Avoidance for about three years...and that is three years of wasted time and opportunity I can't get back. Which sucks. But all the more reason for not wasting any more time right?

What I have learned is that I had BD Avoidance, then PTSD Avoidance and then How It Is Avoidance.
And each was fuelled by something different....but seriously I could run classes on Avoidance  :)

BD Avoidance was just plain old shock...had NO idea what was going on and couldn't logic my way out a paper bag.
PTSD Avoidance was about Fear...everything was a threat, could do logic a bit but it didn't help much.
How It Is Avoidance....is about not wanting it to be how it is and when I deal with how it is that means having to LOOK at how it really is...which means actively accepting all of it. Which sucks bc not much of it is how I wanted it to be.
But
And here is the good news.
There is a point - even for me - when the desire to say hello to something feels more important than the wish to not say goodbye to other things. Hard to describe but it feels like something to do with both grief and trauma. And it feels good.

I'm not happy that my mother is lost in dementia with all of what that means for me and her. I hate it actually. But it is a series of realities. Until I actively embrace them, warts and all, I can't make anything about it work even ok let alone a tiny bit better. I can't find hope until I can work with how it is.
That sounds so bloody obvious doesn't it? But truly I couldn't see it or do it. Just couldn't.
That by choosing to engage with what I don't want, I can begin to see what I can want.

I'm not happy that my father is dead, or my cats, or that I no longer own my own home. Or that I had cancer and PTSD. Or that I lost money that was stolen by my then h. Or that I am 55 for that matter lol. But they are the facts. Can't feel good about being 56 without recognising I am 55 right?

Same principle for my xh and my old marriage. Any 'why' label - and I'm not denying that what happened was WTF extreme and hideously incomprehensible and not normal - does not change the facts. I am divorced by a vanishing xh who wanted to erase my existence and ran off with some of my money and treasures to a new life and a new wife. I am single, in my 50s, living alone and recovering from an enforced wholesale life renovation that really only matters to me pretty much. I may not know why my h did what he did or became what he became, but it is reasonable to assume that it was his choice and he is fine with it even if I wasn't. And if he isn't that's out of my hands too isn't it?

More useful to me to figure out how and what to rebuild than to speculate on his life, head or conscience. And I have some big and small decisions to make. And not enough work to make me feel good or money to make me feel safe from the slings and arrows etc. And a looming health problem. How I feel about all of that doesn't change the facts. And actually nothing that anyone else - including my xh - could say or do would change most of them either.

Facts is facts right?
It is like life after Schrödinger's cat box was opened lol.

I appreciate that this post probably sounds ridiculously obvious, particularly to those of you who have tried to 2x4 me out of my own head for a long time. (Sorry)
But after a recent dip into the pit, it is as if my eyes are open now...very strange...what a slow learner eh...or maybe just a dogged avoider lol.
But here is a good place with useful things to be done. With things worth doing.
Just wanted to share that as a bit of encouragement for any other champion slowcoaches swinging by  :)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 03:40:49 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline PJ Will Be OK

  • MLCer Type: Low-Energy
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 558
  • Gender: Male
Re: More After Life
« Reply #93 on: September 03, 2019, 06:21:53 PM »
Thanks for sharing, Treasur. If you're a slow learner, I don't know what that makes me.

You sound good. Here's to the future. Here's to life!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019

Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11093.0;topicseen

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #94 on: September 04, 2019, 05:56:59 AM »
Yesterday was a pretty good day. Lots of avoiding Avoidance lol...and do you know what? Every single thing I stepped towards turned out to not be the problem I thought it would be. Ha ha...I remember when my life felt like that most of the time so it was nice to have a day like that. Having another one today and trying to buy dementia-friendly clothes online which is not as easy as you'd think.

A few folks have commented on mego girl's thread about her response to a post I made. I appreciate the support but it isn't necessary. Nothing mego said surprised or upset me....whatever it was being thrown wasn't picked up by me a la circus and monkeys bc we LBS learn don't we? And mego has the right to ignore or be inconsistent in her responses with any or all of us. Just as we have the right to prefer not to be part of a conversation if it feels pointless to be in it. We learn a lot as LBS and that includes recognising that someone is not able or willing to hear you. The reasons don't matter so much really...but sometimes a STFU smoothie and wishing someone the best is the only thing left and the only sensible response. No different than trying to communicate with an MLC spouse imho. People - including me - will hear what they are ready to hear and deal with at the time. That might change with time and events and if it does they will behave differently bc they want to achieve a different result. I've been there, most of us have....but we choose and we have the right to choose poorly as others might see it right? I've done TONS of that...Queen of Self-Sabotaging Avoidance remember?  :)

I'm not sure what success looks like for mego, and I hope she finds her way to it but I have no useful contribution to make. Got plenty of my own poo to clear up lol.

And the religious issues which a couple of folks have said they dislike about organised faith? Well, jmo fwiw, but from the little I know most religions and spiritual frameworks are based on some common beliefs about love, respect, integrity and acknowledging that the universe isn't just about you. I have met some very fine people who try to live as they believe in churches. And I have met others who don't or who use their faith as a kind of weapon or wall. God is one thing...but religious communities have the same mix of flawed humans as the average coffee shop I expect  ;)

It is important to remember imho that we share snapshots of ourselves here with varying degrees of transparency. We don't know the whole book, only bits of a chapter. And sometimes the STFU smoothie and doing nothing albeit with a kind heart is respectful and honest and recognises the long list of stuff we don't know. One thing I DO know now that I didn't a few years ago is that the list of stuff I don't know is MUCH longer than I thought  :) This is a general point not an individual one about any specific poster.....sometimes it is respectful to offer then stop and always useful to respect the limits of what we know about each other. The positive note though - which it is easy to forget until others remind us maybe - is that HS posters grow and learn and evolve from when they first post. Few of us are the same as we were with that first post....and that is a tremendous thing to see and share isn't it?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 06:15:52 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Busy_Bee

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #95 on: September 04, 2019, 08:07:58 AM »
Treasur,
You are very brave and honest women :) You care to loose time to write thoughtful responses to everybody, even to those who won't listen anyway.
But consider that there are many other people who read those responses and think ..hm..is she reading my mind?..So write away, we are reading :)

Concerning religion, that one is tough. I never liked that " organized religion"  also ( great summary by the way!). However I've been baptized recently only to be able have one-to-one conversation with God. You see..there are so many people who appeals to Him  that the amount of energy generated is just enormous! What if I can be part of this?
Quote
Few of us are the same as we were with that first post....and that is a tremendous thing to see and share isn't it?
YES! I've decided not to share many things about my MLC..why? Because exactly what you said -HS poster should grow and learn by themselves first to be able to choose how to deal with their own MLCer. I can only read their posts and silently agree or disagree. I've learned my lesson very well. They should do also.

 


Offline Mortesbride

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2461
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #96 on: September 04, 2019, 09:20:54 AM »
I don't know much about Operas except the fact I always wanted to go see Phantom of the Opera....but I am glad you are going to do something for yourself on your Birthday.

I think the best thing to keep you out of the avoidance pit as it were, is to actively practice non-avoidance. The more you practice it the easier it will become. I think it is clearly something a person can easily get dragged back into. So much easier to give up and just ignore it for a time. We all have certain issue we are avoiding facing...mostly because the list of problems to face are so long. I guess the real issue is...making sure we don't get into the habit of avoiding them for long periods of time?
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline Finding Joy

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 358
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #97 on: September 04, 2019, 09:30:58 AM »
Treasur- It does seem like we sometimes build up things in our mind and then when we actually do them, they are seldom as hard as we thought and getting it done releases pressure.

I agreed with every word in your above post.  People hear what they want and they are only ready to hear when they are.  No point speaking if no one is listening.

Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline gman242

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1894
  • Gender: Male
Re: More After Life
« Reply #98 on: September 04, 2019, 10:10:13 AM »
Quote
I may not know why my h did what he did or became what he became, but it is reasonable to assume that it was his choice and he is fine with it even if I wasn't. And if he isn't that's out of my hands too isn't it?

I think at the end of the day.. that's the conclusion we all will come to. It took me the better part of the last couple years to realize, despite my exs attempts to cling, she isn't my friend. Friends don't hurt someone and then walk away.

Your story is an inspiration honestly. Compared to what you've been through and survived, my internal turmoil seems petty in comparison. i think you and a lot of other people are inspirational success stories in their own rights.

Offline Ro828

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
Re: More After Life
« Reply #99 on: September 04, 2019, 03:21:30 PM »
Treasur,

I don't often post on this forum but I love reading your posts.  They are so sincere and honest.  I glean so much from you.  You truly are a Treasur on this site.  You have helped me more than you know.  You have a way of putting thoughts down that make me reflect on my own progress or lack thereof at times.  I know I'm not alone in this journey.

It's so sad that some misconstrue your wisdom and willingness to help.  I'm not sure why one would want to remain stuck, angry, in denial or right when it's clearly not working or helping their situation.  Sadly, sometimes you just have to let them be to figure it out for themselves.

Just know I appreciate you. 


Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #100 on: September 04, 2019, 11:00:44 PM »
Thank you, gman and ro.
I suppose I feel that when the world makes no sense and hurts, all we have left is honesty and kindness. And whatever kind of faith in better that we can rustle up. Doesn't stop bad things happening but these small things can pack a big punch when they do.

I don't feel inspiring. But I know I have found strength and solace in things others have written, so if anyone finds their own thoughts in my scribblings helpful, that's something good isn't it? The benefit of suffering - any kind of real pain - is that there is a honesty when we see or hear it in others I think. In RL there is a look, when people look out with a kind of blank stare that you can see is really looking in to something unbearably painful that they are trying to bear anyway. You know it when you see it. And it helps when others know you know. Some things are beyond words...

This time of year has a lot of echoes for me, September and October both. A lot of my life's pathways, good and bad, happened around this time of year so I am more consciously carrying it. The good news for those coming along behind me is that the triggers are paler...you see them but don't feel them in quite the same way. You sort of nod to them from across the room I suppose. But I am sad. I'm not sure I will ever be able to understand how I ended up where I was or why my h became someone who didn't care if I lived or died....probably that says good things about me that I still can't see it as normal or comprehensible...accepting the reality of it was hard enough. But how can you not feel sad about such awful things, such dark things that happen and can't be un-happened? Or a kind of sad horror that this kind of darkness became acceptable to someone you loved, enough that they did things you never would have imagined they could do, that they probably never imagined they could do? Sadness is an appropriate way to feel isn't it?

But the dark is also a good reason to keep turning your head towards the light when you can. And as Velika has just said wisely on another thread, anything healthy that makes you feel safe. Which for me included making myself go NC with people who want to hurt me bc they wouldn't stop until I did even if I didn't understand why. Jmo. But that is a sad thing to have to do too with people who walked beside you in your life for years isn't it? So this time of year is a sad time for me. But it will not feel exactly the same next year...that we learn I think.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 11:14:01 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #101 on: September 06, 2019, 03:26:00 AM »
Posted some thoughts about detachment on a couple of other threads and as often happens,  thoughts about someone else's situation seem to prod thoughts about one's own.

A combination of inching towards my wedding anniversary next week, my birthday in October and some health stuff going on as well as some issues with my mother find me a bit hmmm and thinky. And feeling a need for some kind of emotional tidying up probably. Since my xh announced that divorce was the only option, he has steadfastly ignored both dates and I have no intention of communicating with him in the foreseeable future. I continue to think of my h as dead...and dead folks don't send cards lol. So my thinky is not about him in that sense. It's about that kind of 'what was the point and what was real' feeling looking at almost 20 years of my own life probably.

We talk here sometimes about the difference between unconditional love and a relationship that has boundaries and conditions. Which made me muse on if there are unconditional and conditional memories. And the difference in my POV towards my mother and my then h's affect on how comfortable I feel with my own memories. I have never felt that my mother's inability to remember or value my memories of her or my family invalidates or pollutes them. Actually I probably feel that her loss means it is even more important that I honour those memories. Rationally, I should feel the same towards my memories of my time with my then h...but it doesn't feel so easy to do that. And I'm not sure why really.

Is there a difference between unconditional and conditional memories?

Now I am only talking about my situation and my sample size of one silent vanisher. Since my former h mentioned the divorce word, he behaved consistently 99% of the time as if every bit of our shared life had no value or significance at all. Not me, our homes, not my family who used to be his, no shared event or experience big or small. He never said anything positive about any of it after mid 2016 and he behaved as if it was all negative or worthless. The only exceptions I can recall are his Gollum like weird behaviour about the watch, the odd small item he refused to return and when he sent the police round bc he hadn't had a reply to some texts. That's it. So, whilst I can't know if any of those shared memories are still shared, it is reasonable to assume that we see them differently and that they are not good or valued memories for him. If he remembers them at all. And of course it is quite possible that there were things going on that I did not know about, that he was lying well before BD...bc when someone becomes a liar to such an extent, you have to be more open to the possibility that there were other lies don't you? Even if I didn't have any sense of that at the time and haven't found any evidence that it was so.

So, can MY memories of those 18 years be unconditional as they are with my mother who no longer shares them? Or has my xh's behaviour in the last two years of our marriage and his evident devaluing of what he acted as if he valued for the 18 years made my own memories necessairly conditional? If I remember a particular lunch say after we had visited my father in hospital as being a really loving supportive memory of my h, is that still so when there is a good chance that at the same time this was not the whole truth of what my then h was feeling or thinking? Are my memories of our vow renewal in 2008 in our little village church necessarily different now that the story on the wedding celebrants website is that my xh and ow first met at work and liked each other in the same year? Idk. It doesn't feel even now as if my then h started an affair in 2008 or did not love and value me when we renewed our vows...there was no sense of unease or red flags that either me or anyone else felt or saw...but do I need to make that memory more conditional on the information from the website? Idk.

I really don't see this conditional vs unconditional thing as anything to do with anyone else but my own head really. I just don't like living with a question mark over it all probably...and memories somehow matter a great deal when you lose so many people who shared those memories before. And maybe my own sense of mortality and having more years behind me than in front of me?  It is probably the cruelest thing my xh did actually...to behave in a way that left a question mark over so many years. It would have been kinder if he had said some kind of goodbye that acknowledged some good or valuable things even if he no longer felt the same way or wanted something or someone different. I think that is the hardest thing that comes with a vanisher actually...it's the question mark.

So unconditional or conditional...hmmm. I have been praying for guidance tbh bc it's important to me, rightly or wrongly, and I just don't know. Seems to be above my pay grade or ability so when in doubt, pray and delegate it to God seems to work for me usually. There is a little side chapel in my church here, a Lady chapel, that I often go to for those quiet moments of prayer and reflection. It has candles you can light and a prayer tree where people can write requests for specific prayers and a bunch of books that one can flick through. When I was there a couple of days ago, there was a new book on a pew...called something like Reflections or Remembering I think. Each page has a different poem or bit of text, some Biblical and some not. I opened the book at random asking for a bit of guidance I suspect and it opened to this https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/45336/in-memoriam-a-h-h-obiit-mdcccxxxiii-27

And that is absolutely how I feel about my parents...but I am less sure about those days and months and years with my then h now.....has just occurred to me though that of course my h's memories - whatever they are - are obviously not conditional on mine are they? Hmmm, may need to ask God to use bigger post it notes or a louder voice lol.



« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 03:29:27 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9075
  • Gender: Male
  • Live like they are never coming back
Re: More After Life
« Reply #102 on: September 06, 2019, 03:59:20 AM »
So, can MY memories of those 18 years be unconditional as they are with my mother who no longer shares them? Or has my xh's behaviour in the last two years of our marriage and his evident devaluing of what he acted as if he valued for the 18 years made my own memories necessairly conditional? If I remember a particular lunch say after we had visited my father in hospital as being a really loving supportive memory of my h, is that still so when there is a good chance that at the same time this was not the whole truth of what my then h was feeling or thinking? Are my memories of our vow renewal in 2008 in our little village church necessarily different now that the story on the wedding celebrants website is that my xh and ow first met at work and liked each other in the same year? Idk. It doesn't feel even now as if my then h started an affair in 2008 or did not love and value me when we renewed our vows...there was no sense of unease or red flags that either me or anyone else felt or saw...but do I need to make that memory more conditional on the information from the website? Idk.

Maybe a slightly different question but taking it from a step farther back....

Do you really KNOW what your xH was thinking or feeling in that time frame or is it all just based on some sort of verbal/Web/text/e-mail diarrhea that started AFTER his crisis took off? Once THAT happens, a we are pretty much all used to, NOTHING is safe from the revisionist history of the Mid-Lifer.....

Does it really matter to YOUR memories of a certain event, the lunch or the renewal of vows for example, what was going on in your xH's head at that time? How does that change the reality of what you experienced then and your subsequent memory of it? Is it not revisionist history itself to say that, because xH may have already been on the way to Bat-Snot Bonkers, that the memory that YOU experienced is no longer valid, no longer as positive as it used to be?

Introspection and mirror work are all well and good and needed for us to heal and grow and regain access to our authentic selves. Naval-gazing and questioning our own reality, whether our memories are real or not, or whether we were just imagining everything seems to me to be WAY to similar to what we experience when we are being gaslighted by someone... except we are doing it to ourselves... and THAT is NOT a good thing...

Therefore, I would put forth the premise that our memories of events are as good and real and honest and true as we choose them to be. I am not talking about revisionist in the other way either that everything was cotton-candy clouds and unicorns farting rainbows and clouds of glitter but I'll be damned if I am going to let my x and her Mid-Life Crisis, HER choice to change history to fit HER sick narrative, sully the memories of what was right and good and joyful about my marriage... I was in it for 17 years and I am NOT a masochist who would be glad to be "punished" or tormented for that amount of time... Just because our exes have a terminal case of the HUTA virus (Head Up The A...) doesn't mean we have to play along and accept their version of events or allow it to denigrate our own memories...

For example, just because my ex says that she hasn't been happy since before S12 was born, that doesn't change the joy we both experienced that first Easter Sunday when we went to Church with him for the first time and the priest called us up for a blessing and there are pictures hanging in the church to prove it. It doesn't change the love and joy that we had together at his Baptism and the subsequent party. It doesn't change the joy we had at D8's birth and Baptism and so on.... at least not for me because those WERE times of joy and love, and happiness, regardless of what she says about them now.... Calling that all into question is simply gaslighting myself....

Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #103 on: September 06, 2019, 04:35:42 AM »
Good questions, UM

No in my case my question marks are all based on his behaviour from May 2016 bc to coin a well known phrase here lol...he never said a word really. Zip. His L reasons for the divorce were a short list of outright untruths e.g. that I had refused to talk to him about our marriage or life lol funny for a vanisher who refused to talk to me for months at a time or feeling things e.g. that he felt I was uninterested in his career (unlike a coworker of course lol) or rejected bc I was spending time with my family (as my father was terminally ill hmmph). So pretty script I guess....the only flavour I can infer from the paperwork was, factual or not, he felt that he felt unloved and unsupported and unimportant to me. Which of course is the exact opposite of how I felt and often the exact opposite of how I actually behaved. But, y'know...script. And I DO know that some of the little he said before BD but after he was diagnosed with depression was factually untrue or that he couldn't remember things at all...or indeed add up, remember what day it was literally or recognise his own face in a photo lol. So, not a very reliable source of anything right?

Now that means of course that I am at risk of imposing my own perspective on how I interpret those actions...so, for instance, If i had previously loved someone that I no longer loved I would not want them to be injured or threatened so I would respond to do something about that...my h didn't so my assumption is that this was bc at best he didn't care or at worst wanted me to be hurt.  But that IS my filter isn't it? And on top of that, translating normal from bonkers is obviously a bit tricky.

A bit of my head really does know that gaslighting oneself is easy in this situation and not a good or accurate thing. And that nothing I think or feel now allows me to change one single moment about my life since July 1997 as I am not a time traveller lol.

And I also know as my own postPTSD memories pop up, that the feelings that come with my memories are almost always about joy and safety and delight and lots of good conversations and respect and feeling deeply loved.

But
There is an itch I can't seem to resolve UM bc I have unhealthily ruminated and cycled and chewed on it for a couple of years.
And I need closure on it bc I need to be at peace with it probably. And I'm not. And it is too big to just shrug my shoulders and bin or leave in that idk third drawer that Mourning mentioned long ago.

Funny really bc if I imagine the opposite...if I felt completely sure that those years were all a lie, or without value, if I couldn't remember any of the joy or love or friendship at all...that would feel awful. As if I had wasted my life or been cheated somehow. Yet it is quite possible that this is how my xh feels now, isn't it? Bc we know enough about the script to know they do sometimes. And tbh, how weird and awful would the exact opposite feel? If you went from 'all terrible' to the kind of 'waking up' realisation that it wasn't at all like some recovered MLCers feel. If you suddenly realised that the joy was real and you had destroyed it bc you misplaced your marbles for a while. Probably even more awful actually. All of this with the caveat that I absolutely have NO idea how my xh feels about any of it at all. None.

Why the itch? My best guess is that age and bereavement have made memories more important bc they are all I have left of my tribe. But that the WTFness of the last few years has left me doubting lots of things I used to take as the truth....so I suppose thinking out loud here, the kernel of the issue is about deciding if I can trust my own feelings and judgment and the bit of my brain that remembers stuff. After the WTF stuff and after my own brain stopped working so well.  It is about MY recovery probably more than it is about my h, xh or my m. And it seems odd to me that I have no problem with it with my mother but am completely at sea with regard to that bit of my life with my then h. I guess what talking about it is helping me see is that it isn't entirely about the past, it's about trusting myself again now probably? And that some bit of me sees the reality of dementia in a way that I don't/haven't accepted the reality of depression/MLC?

Thank you for helping me think out loud. I'm a slightly isolated extrovert so I need to think out loud sometimes to work out what I think and feel. I'll get there, by human hook or divine crook, bc it is an important bit of unfinished work for me. Your questions and experience help. Xxx and all without a gif even!

And now I am putting the thoughts aside and getting back to work  :)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 04:53:07 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9075
  • Gender: Male
  • Live like they are never coming back
Re: More After Life
« Reply #104 on: September 06, 2019, 05:05:54 AM »
I guess what talking about it is helping me see is that it isn't entirely about the past, it's about trusting myself again now probably?



OK... So.... what part of you is NOT to be trusted? Why are you not trustworthy, particularly to yourself? Have your morals changed? Your motivations? Have you suddenly started channeling the Dark Side of the Force? become self-destructive? A lying, cheating, murderous Succubus?

or Lord Valdemort?


I'm thinking probably not.....

And to WHOM are you untrustworthy? Not your clients... or they wouldn't be coming to you.. Not your Landlady or she wouldn't have rented to you... Not your uncle or he wouldn't have been introducing you to Gin of various varieties.... So? Who's left? Ah yes, the lady in the mirror... Hmmmmmmm ... she's a tougher nut to crack, isn't she? She's been betrayed by one person who had promised to love her forever.... So, does that make all others then (including the reality in front of the mirror) automatically suspect?

IMHO, there is a HUGE difference between questioning assumptions and beliefs as opposed to memories... What we assume going forward compared to what has happened in the past...

It is a bit like faith... Having doubts about one's faith is NOT being UNfaithful... Questioning and doubting are part of faith and, in fact, serve to strengthen faith because we question what we can not see or hear or touch but somehow what we believe.... In the end, despite the questions, despite not having ALL the answers, we choose to accept what we believe (or not). THAT is faith....

How your xH felt when he filed his paperwork or at BD reflected his reality AT THAT POINT IN TIME but doesn't necessarily correlate to how he felt 2 days/2 weeks/2 months/2 years prior.  The fact that he was diagnosed with severe depression (and I assume given medication for it) and was spouting things which were factually incorrect (untrue) it would stand to reason then, that there would be at LEAST a shadow of doubt on the veracity of the rest of his nonsense, no? The fact that, once he bolted headlong into the tunnel with the aid of Schmoopie (and do NOT discount the evil influence there), he basically had a psychotic break with reality and with his earlier core beliefs/morals would reinforce the concept that, up to that point, your assumptions and beliefs were valid..... After that point though, all bets were off because his cheese done slid off his cracker.... THAT has, however, NOTHING to do with YOU and your perception of what was real... It has EVERYTHING to do with the sequential and radical changes that you were going through all at once that overwhelmed your inner defenses and left you open to self-doubt....
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #105 on: September 06, 2019, 05:18:12 AM »
Damn, those are good questions UM.
Yes...I have lost Faith in myself and I need it to live well. I had it and I lost it and I need it. Bc it affects everything I do in the world from here.
That is the thing to work with and on.....hmmm will pop back and think out loud again when I have let that sit for a bit.

Thank you for being my free virtual coach x
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 05:20:55 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online xyzcf

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10213
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2019, 06:37:32 AM »
Quote
And I also know as my own postPTSD memories pop up, that the feelings that come with my memories are almost always about joy and safety and delight and lots of good conversations and respect and feeling deeply loved.

But
There is an itch I can't seem to resolve UM bc I have unhealthily ruminated and cycled and chewed on it for a couple of years.
And I need closure on it bc I need to be at peace with it probably. And I'm not. And it is too big to just shrug my shoulders and bin or leave in that idk third drawer that Mourning mentioned long ago.

I have an observation treasur that I will share. It may or may not be true. It is what I have learned about our marriage and the love we had together.

I am basing this on my own 10 year history as well as several LBS friends that I remain in contact with who no longer post on HS. Some have a new relationship, some have no contact with their MLCer, others have some contact (I'm in that category) while others have rather frequent contact. These are all people who are at least 8 years post BD.

It may very well be a skewed sample group.  For it makes sense that I would tend to gravitate to LBSers who think similarily to myself. I know that reading here, many LBSers seem to be totally finished with their previous life. But I also know that many of the stories that are written about the MLCer in the future, that there are still thoughts and feelings for them by the LBSer, even when they have totally "moved on".

Quote
unhealthily ruminated and cycled and chewed on it for a couple of years.

I do not see this as unhealthy. We have to process this, sometimes over and over again. Sometimes that causes PTSD and if it is preventing us from living and searching for our own happiness, then it becomes problematic. But those thoughts are still very important.

When I read your threads, I get the feeling that you "expect" to be able to stop these memories. You feel the need for closure....is is realistic that there will ever be "closure?". Acceptance, yes. Not sure about closure.

As long as my MLCer is alive, all I can do with my thoughts and feelings is to accept them for what they are. Accept what has happened. Accept that he is in a crisis and may never return from it.

We are all different regarding what we must do to be whole and healthy. I thought about EMDR but my understanding was that it separates the memories from the emotions and I personally didn't want that.....and I am far enough along that I was functioning well.....the therapy I had helped to reintegrate the parts of me that were shattered...I needed that to be able to continue forward.

I think that this takes so many years for us to "resolve"...can it really ever be "resolved?".

We KNOW that any real issues in our marriages could have been worked on. My husband's reasons were that "I was too intense and I talked too much"...traits I will acknowledge to be true but have had those traits for 35 years. He also told me once that he resented me...when I asked him what he resented me for he said "I don't know. I just do".

I do not mean to be pessimistic but perhaps give yourself a break. Your feelings and emotions are real and valid. At least we can feel things whereas they cannot seem to.

I used to think about a story of a caterpillar that went into it's cocoon or chrysalis  and I read once that there is a species that is in that state for 100 years before it emerges into a beautiful butterfly. I used to think about that story in regards to my MLCer but now I see it to be true of my own story.

Find the peace that you need. It's there but it may not be as total as we would wish it to be.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Couragedearheart

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2019, 07:16:52 AM »
Quote
And to WHOM are you untrustworthy? Not your clients... or they wouldn't be coming to you.. Not your Landlady or she wouldn't have rented to you... Not your uncle or he wouldn't have been introducing you to Gin of various varieties.... So? Who's left? Ah yes, the lady in the mirror... Hmmmmmmm ... she's a tougher nut to crack, isn't she? She's been betrayed by one person who had promised to love her forever.... So, does that make all others then (including the reality in front of the mirror) automatically suspect?

Dear sweet 8lb 2oz baby Jesus UM
Thats a lovely 2x4 you are swinging. That hit me so hard I jolted. Holy cow.
I can’t forgive me, I am so mad at myself for having let my guard down, for trusting a person who’s untrustworthy, for having been so blind, so stupid and so naive......but of course....that’s just me making myself responsible for other people and their actions and my (apparent) belief that I should be clairvoyant....which I’m not.
I can’t trust myself because my choice hurt me. The person I chose as a life partner, decided not to choose me back....and I betrayed myself by not anticipating that particular outcome and having done anything to defend myself against it.
And I can’t trust me, because my choice to be open and vulnerable....with the first person I ever made a huge conscious effort to take down all the walls for...backfired spectacularly in my face.
Emotion says “that’s why you need the walls”, logic says you don’t need the darn walls...you need to be grateful for things your vulnerability gave you and grieve for the parts that hurt and be proud of yourself for having risked so much.
Well clearly there’s some work I need to do....thank you for highlighting it.
Back to the bat cave to do some inner work.
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2019, 07:55:01 AM »
I have a funny feeling that this discussion with the turn that UM has helped me take might be really useful to people other than me.

I am still processing here but two things popped into my head to share.

The first is the difference between Faith and Trust. Faith is what I believe when it isn't empirically provable. And I could be wrong. Faith is something I HAVE. Or don't. Trust is what I believe based on things I experience, facts, evidence, real things. And sometimes that might challenge my old beliefs or indeed my Faith. Trust is something I DO. Or don't do. There is a definition of Trust too that Brene Brown uses that is about Trust being when I allow something important to me to be vulnerable to the actions of others. And let's face it, most LBS have failed despite our best efforts to protect sometimes their most important treasures from the actions of others...or perhaps too from our own actions. Hmmm.

What I said before was wrong. I have not lost Faith with myself. I have lost Trust...in myself and in some of my old beliefs and in people and things that I used to trust.

The discussion also made me remember this https://brenebrown.com/videos/anatomy-trust-video/ where Brene Brown talks about the elements that create Trust. That trust is like a marble jar and being trusting requires us to think about who our 'marble jar friends' are. And that Trust, and betrayal, are built more on a series of small 'sliding door' moments than one or two big actions. Of course as LBS we probably experienced a series of small betrayals that we didn't see...and then our MLC spouse emptied the marble jar completely and then hit the jar with a hammer until it was fragments on the floor lol.

Not my situation but I guess this video might be useful for some folks trying to figure out how to trust again in reconnection. Her point is that Trust is a very big emotive word and it isn't easy to be specific about what we need and can offer unless we break it down into smaller bits.

But the even more important reason for sharing it is about self-Trust. Bc she says very clearly about 18 mins in that the very first thing that happens in big traumatic betrayals is that we stop trusting ourselves. That's normal. And that we rebuild self-Trust in the same seven ways we build trust with other people....so we need to trust our own marble jar first before we assess the marble jars of others.

My marble jar was smashed by my experiences but it was also smashed again by my own responses and by my experience of PTSD and my own behaviour bc I stopped behaving like Me.

It is good stuff if, like me, this is an issue for you now.
Ok, off to muse lightly on my own marbles while doing other things.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 08:03:49 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Couragedearheart

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2019, 08:04:12 AM »
Treasur,
I ❤️ You!
Thanks for the link.
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #110 on: September 06, 2019, 08:08:30 AM »
 :-* you're welcome...more heads are better than one right?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Evermore

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 210
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2019, 04:43:32 PM »
:-* you're welcome...more heads are better than one right?

They really are. I love this thread and I love this place.

I’m on my third cup of tea as I sit in bed this misty cold Saturday morning and look out my window and have my own thinky time. I’ve just today come to realise that the REASON my favourite thing to do, which is to sit in bed (my bed, or the bed on our friends’ houseboat we used to visit often, or the bed in our camper trailer that we travelled extensively in etc) with a cuppa and just let the world go on around me, letting the sights and sounds of what’s going on around me wash over me, is because it’s where I do my thinking, learning and growing. How weird to have known all along that this was my favourite thing but to not have realised why until just now.

So just popping in to say that it’s threads/discussions like these here at this place that are really shooting me along in that learning and growing. It’s so appreciated. I hope I can contribute more going forward as my brain continues to come ‘back on line’. 
M: 49
H: 51
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 20
D: 18
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45) - he met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #112 on: September 07, 2019, 08:56:17 AM »
Now here is a weird thing which I share to comfort anyone else years out who has the same crazy experience. As I am looking at how to rebuild my own trust in myself, for the very first time really I am angry. Cold furious icy angry. It has just boiled up today from nowhere. Probably bc I am looking with a kinder eye to myself and just how devastating this was, how wrong this was that any spouse should do what was done to me.

And it is odd bc I haven't had a lot of anger; my grief was too big for it. The odd hour here and there. The time I found out who ow was from the financial disclosures and realised that she had been stalking me on LinkedIn for well over a year when I didn't know who she was. When my mother asked about him bc she thought he was ill and was worried...and I had to lie to her. I stood in the car park and would have stabbed him if he'd been there. After Louis died and I realised I had no home I owned to bury him.

And the strange thing that goes with the anger is wanting to contact him. To shout. To shame him. To scream look at what you did. To blast him. To say you ran away so you didn't see the effects of what you did, all the people you left hurt and bewildered, how you broke me to the point where it would have been less painful to die. It certainly would have been less painful if you had died. And you have no f'ing idea of the scale of the damage bc you were too selfish and weak and cowardly to take responsibility for your own actions. Or how hard it is to heal from or the scars it leaves. And then to make it even worse, to add salt to the wound, you refused to even talk to me and colluded with a stranger to steal and threaten me. ....and divorced me so one more choice removed....that any pain he suffered I got x10...at least...etc etc...I could go on. And a bit of me REALLY wants to.
But
And it's an important but frustrating But.
Particularly for those of us with vanishers maybe even more so.

I have to remind myself that my xh does not care.
If he had done, he would have behaved differently. If he had reached a point where he had any kind of remorse, he would do something even now. Even for selfish reasons. And he hasn't. Bc he doesn't.

I have to remind myself that no amount of anyone else's pain would change mine or heal me.
That it would not comfort me for more than a few minutes to know that he suffers as much as I have. And that I would not trust any kindness or empathy he tried to show me now anyway bc I do not trust him to be anything better than he has become. Bc there is no factual reason why I should.

I have to remind myself that anyone who could create this kind of pain to another human being, particularly a spouse who loves and trusts you,  without remorse or a need to make amends is either a very bad person indeed or profoundly broken as a human being.
I don't believe my h was or is a bad person....so he is a profoundly f'ed up broken one.
And if he won't take responsibility for what he did and look at the damage, he will stay that way.
And I didn't break him so my absence makes no difference other than enabling him to avoid looking at the effects of what he did. So he will carry his broken pieces with him in his new life forever until he does. And that means he will hurt others and get hurt and never feel what it is like to be a healthy honest human again or ever be able to outrun the shame of it no matter what mask he wears. His man in the mirror knows what he did better than I do probably and he will never entirely be at peace. Bc truthfully my h is not at heart a bad person or an unkind person or incapable of empathy.
And tbh that is God's version of karma and vengeance, I suspect...the simple law of sowing and reaping....probably way more effective vengeance than anything I could unleash lol.


But it is odd to feel so incredibly angry so late in the game.
I am walking and puffing through it, keeping my fingers away from any communication tools  :), and letting it wash through bc I know it will. Rage is not a default part of who I am.

I am also choosing to see it as a good thing...another sign that my brain is working properly again...another sign that I am Me again and that I did not deserve to be humiliated, trashed and manipulated by the weak PoS man-child that my xh became. Not a jot. That my anger is warranted and healthy. And that he is not only a f'ed up broken mess but he also has lost me and his self-respect. Both of which are irreplaceable. It is a sign that I am getting my self-respect and sense of pride back, that I no longer feel like a victim even if that means I'd like to smash his face into a pulp. (Metaphorically speaking  :) )...,bc the original Me, the one he married, would never have doubted that he simply stopped being worthy of Me and that the problem and loss was his, that he was too broken and self destructive to be my man. Bc respect matters...and I don't respect this kind of man. A man who is too weak to end his marriage in a respectful and decent way after two decades. Who would abandon a bereaved wife with cancer without even a goodbye, and run away from his practical obligations and a promise made to a dying man who trusted him as a sil and a man?  No, that kind of man is despicable...sucks..wouldn't have given him the time of day before...so no need to now. He isn't even worthy of my words....even if there are only two beginning with F and ending with off lol.

A rare angry vent by me. But thank you for letting me vent so my fingers could distract themselves from any wish to scream at him.  :)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 09:21:35 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline forthetrees

  • MLCer Type: Vanisher
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3054
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #113 on: September 07, 2019, 10:56:21 AM »
Well said. Sorry that you are feeling an unwanted emotional surge. Glad that you have the ability to express it in a way that helps yourself and others.

Maybe they are like light bulbs that have stopped working. From the outside a bulb looks fine. When you give it a slight shake you can hear that broken filament. The MCLers have broken filaments and shine no more. It´s just that during the daylight hours there´s no cause to try to turn it on and thus many people do not see that the bulb is broken.
me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

Offline terra

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #114 on: September 07, 2019, 11:15:38 AM »
Maybe they are like light bulbs that have stopped working. From the outside a bulb looks fine. When you give it a slight shake you can hear that broken filament. The MCLers have broken filaments and shine no more. It´s just that during the daylight hours there´s no cause to try to turn it on and thus many people do not see that the bulb is broken.

Exquisitely put, forthetrees. I don’t have to replace lightbulbs often, but I did that just this week. So your description, I know, is just right!

Treasur, it’s interesting how the emotion is delayed, isn’t it? Rage is not my default either, and when it has come, these past two or more years, it scares me almost. Not least because what are we even to do with it? Besides crashing pen after pen in angry ink in all caps in some paper journal clung to for dear life, or smashing dishes or bottles or juice glasses or crockery. I resent that there isn’t a person to throw it at. And sometimes it goes on for days like that, and even makes me tremble. But then, as you say, it does pass.

I find it’s true that if I can just crack the shell of it, there’s more and deeper and truer beneath the surface. It’s raw and vulnerable and it really, really hurts. But when I do get to that, the tears come and all the pain is PURE. The grieving is PURE. And the LOVE, is PURE.

It’s an odd thing, that hurts like these can give way to healing at our very core. I want to say, at the taproot. Either way, whatever we call it, if we can just sit with the most difficult feelings and feel and express them, not in words but sometimes in inchoate anguish,

This is where we really grow.

You are still and always a cherished daughter. Never doubt that: it will always be true.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #115 on: September 07, 2019, 11:19:47 AM »
Terra, your last two sentences just made me gulp and cry.  Thank you for reminding me of that x
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Couragedearheart

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #116 on: September 07, 2019, 04:37:17 PM »
Treasur,

You are angry, and rightly so. Angry at the injustice, and his inability to see your value and worth.
Why do you need him to value you?
Because in your words I see your heart, and I see your value and it is beautiful. It is a precious thing that heart of yours, never let someone else’s inability to see or measure it’s worth change how much you believe it is worth.
❤️❤️❤️
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline MourningDove

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4252
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #117 on: September 07, 2019, 05:07:42 PM »
Treasur - I found it very helpful at times to write out a nasty letter to Xh, expressing my anger and then to burn it. I realized expressing my true emotions to him would only result in possibly reigniting the monster's fire. But, I needed that anger to go away. It was cathartic writing out those awful thoughts and then destroying them.

Anger is, I think very normal and part of the grieving process. I am not sure there is a linear path in terms of what comes first, at least in MLC. We are so broad-sided and trying to "right our ship" for so long that I think the anger gets pushed aside. And at least for me, I was wanting to have my Xh come back. The longer he stayed in his MLC hamster wheel, the more I distanced himself. The anger bubbled up more after I had gotten past the non-stop sobbing.

The trick is how to let go of the anger. It doesn't serve us in the long run.

And I suspect you have not been able to truly grieve and feel anger because you have been hit by other things in life that haven't given you the "luxury" of being able to move through that entirely. Losing so much has been taking a great deal of energy from you. You can't focus on just you right now, as you are needed elsewhere. And all of that selflessness is very admirable, but you haven' really been able to think about you and your feelings.

I highly recommend smashing glassware - LOL. I just make sure no one witnesses it in my case - LOL.

Offline UrsaMajor

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9075
  • Gender: Male
  • Live like they are never coming back
Re: More After Life
« Reply #118 on: September 09, 2019, 02:59:26 AM »
I highly recommend smashing glassware - LOL. I just make sure no one witnesses it in my case - LOL.

If there are no witnesses, did it really happen? 

Of course, the part about picking the pieces out of the drywall could be a bit tricky to explain <snort>

Treasur,  I think that there does come a time, and that time frame is VERY fluid, when the hurt and anger come to the forefront of our awareness, usually after all of the emotions needed to "save our life" have been dealt with... Almost as if the psyche knows instinctively to shoot the wolf closest to the sled first.....

If one looks at it on the Maslow's Hierarchy Scale, once food and shelter have been taken care of, the higher-order needs can be satisfied - sand one of those may very well be to have that altercation with the "Who the firetruck do you think you are to do this to me!" feelings....

Anger can be a motivational force that serves to kick us in the pants in the right direction or it can be that acidic slow burn that rots away our foundations and leaves us bitter and dissolved...

As with all other healing, it depends on us, right?
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline MourningDove

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4252
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #119 on: September 09, 2019, 03:53:55 AM »
I highly recommend smashing glassware - LOL. I just make sure no one witnesses it in my case - LOL.

If there are no witnesses, did it really happen? 

Of course, the part about picking the pieces out of the drywall could be a bit tricky to explain <snort>



I don't know what you are talking about, UrsaMajor - LOL.

Ok, the dog might have witnessed it, but she knows better than to rat on me. Do you think people would buy that I tripped? ::) ;D

It was unfortunate I didn't aim higher. I could have hung a painting over the spot. LOL
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 03:55:04 AM by MourningDove »

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #120 on: September 09, 2019, 04:42:41 AM »
Well, the rage drifted away after a day or so...I'm sure you're right UM about the positive sign of the 'wolf nearest the sled', that I have the 'luxury' of anger now. What was useful to me about it as I processed it was the pattern of things I was most angry about. Bc I think that is where I hurt most and where I will continue to heal. May say more about that later.

But what a morning of PTSD mud wrestling! Had a medical appointment. En route my car broke down. Realised I'd forgotten my phone. Walked about 45 minutes home to call them knowing I was now going to be late and dodging a panic attack. You would not believe the negative talk in my head as I walked. Mostly around the idea that I am so frigging broken that I am never going to be normal again. Belly breathing, my own little mantra...huff puff...it was like the PTSD wolf was biting at my heels. Got home, called...found out I had the wrong day, the appointment is on Wednesday. Cue more 'Ffs I'm never going to have a normal brain again, can't even rely on myself to get something so important right' talk...

But y'know what? I punched the wolf on the nose eventually. Kept breathing, kept reminding myself to focus on what I HAD done not what I HADN'T, on the progress compared to how I WOULD have responded a few months ago. Sounds silly about such normal kinds of life hiccups, but actually in the end it was a triumph not a disaster. No panic attack by a busy road, no one died, I kept going and didn't actually miss the appointment at all. Go me  :)

I think I may hate PTSD more than I hate MLC though.
Actually I'm not going to think of it as a wolf...too powerful...it's a deranged rabbit  :)
Treasur 1, Rabbit 0
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 04:44:05 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9075
  • Gender: Male
  • Live like they are never coming back
Re: More After Life
« Reply #121 on: September 09, 2019, 05:00:56 AM »
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Finding Joy

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 358
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #122 on: September 09, 2019, 10:29:26 AM »
Treasure, I think we all have those sort of negative talks with ourselves from time to time when things don’t go our way.  I’m so sorry you had a tough time of it!  The anger from your last post is a good sign of ongoing healing! 

I do not think I have ptsd, but I also forget things and that all sounds like something that would happen to me as well.  So cut yourself some slack!  Without a forever ongoing list of responsibilities I could not function.  You have come through so much and are an overcomer!
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #123 on: September 10, 2019, 01:33:28 AM »
Love the gif, UM...yeah, let's make those PTSD rabbits quake!

Thank you, FJ. Truthfully I was NOT an overcomer for a long time. I was a beaten down endurer. But I am an overcomer again now. And yes, most LBS have some level of anxiety - which is different from PTSD - but still affects our cognition, memory and physical wellbeing in greater or lesser degrees. Jmo.

We learn - or I do - from the dips and the squirmy insights that come from them I think.
PTSD has a longer shelf life, albeit a smaller one, than I knew before this life experience.
And big emotions don't always unfold as you expect or in a predictable straight line or calendar.
Ha ha...maybe it's in the stars...but tbh I think some of my swirl is triggered by my health issues and that this week is the week of my wedding anniversary. Thinner skin for the feelings to go through, that's all.

But here are my squirmy insights fwiw to anyone else lol.

Boundaries are at heart about safety. Including how we keep boundaries with ourselves. When we feel triggered or vulnerable, we need different boundaries. When we first try to set boundaries in this insane chaos, they are often emergency boundaries bc our amygdala is screaming danger. And bc our MLC spouse is the source usually of that danger, our boundaries tend to be focused on them. As we heal slowly, our sense of safety evolves and probably so does what we need in terms of boundaries. Refining our boundaries is about more than our MLCer....it is about understanding what we need to feel safe today.

My self-boundary yesterday was that I will not allow myself to tell me that I 'can't' any longer or that I will always be broken and vulnerable. If only bc actually it's not true lol. PTSD lies just as much as MLC does...but I can choose a boundary that says I don't have to believe what it says.

And my anger? Well I think that might link in to boundaries too. And how I feel safe enough that I can learn to trust myself again.

When I look at what I was/am most angry about, the pattern of it, my anger is about feeling gaslit and manipulated out of a voice in my own life, about my family and myself being treated as if we didn't matter and about my own helplessness to prevent the reality of getting stiffed by a lot of the hard practical consequences of other people's choices. And about the dehumanising experience of not being heard by a whole bunch of different folks including my xh. I think the root of it is about control and significance. Bc control and significance are part of what makes me feel safe. And probably too some of my anger is about my own shame that many of my OWN reactions to what happened around me and what other people did increased my lack of control and feelings of insignificance. I did not always see or keep my own boundaries with myself bc I was too focused on protective boundaries in reaction to others. Or all the times I was too slow to set boundaries in reaction to events bc I was more worried about my then h than myself...but I could have honoured both.

True too that my healthiest choices...not always entirely consciously lol...did the opposite. Moving here, saying no when my xh bizarrely wanted to 'chat' on the phone, how I dealt with watchgate, getting treatment for PTSD, choosing not to snoop, going NC, not responding to the weird text message in March from owife. All of these were about reclaiming some control and telling myself that I mattered too much to play in the sandpit of dysfunction.

So seeing the pattern, the deep hurt behind the anger, becomes something more useful.
I will continue to heal and feel less vulnerable the more I do things that let me feel in control of my world and that I matter to myself and others, that I always mattered, that my path to here matters, that my family mattered and my relationship with my h mattered. Even if others think they do not.
And my boundaries and actions need to be centred on that. Every day.
And so does my self talk.
And my trust in myself that says I can do that and I can cope with times when that is threatened by other people's actions.
Bc I deserve to be safe in my own life and my own skin.

And in a funny maybe TMI aside, I realised yesterday that I was wearing my fancy lacy wedding pants bc they make me feel stronger...did the same thing when I went skydiving....but how funny that an expensive pair of lacy pants lasted longer than my marriage  ::)...who knew lol.

I am off to make apricot jam...because me and my uncle are worth it lol...before tackling the car issue and my to do list  :)

Oh, and I'd like to apologise to the EU and anyone trying to fly using British Airways for the strange fact that my country is increasingly looking like it is being run on an MLC script. Sorry 😐
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 02:33:10 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline hopeandfaith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2131
  • Gender: Female
    • Clare Brown Life Coach
Re: More After Life
« Reply #124 on: September 10, 2019, 05:52:08 AM »
It's still better than the U.S Treasur!
BD's in May 09, Sept 12 - suspected OW
Left home Jan 12 2013
OW confirmed Feb 2013
Moved home April 11 2014
BD again in April 2017 - clinging. 
Moved out July 2017
D19, D17 and S15

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #125 on: September 10, 2019, 05:57:13 AM »
Not so sure tbh h&f....we have some truly crazy scuffles going on in ancient buildings right now and some MLC-worthy gaslighting and legal tap dancing and entitlement   ::)....most 'normal' folks are just confused and exhausted by the whole thing regardless of their political POV.
We can call it a draw that no one bought a ticket for?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #126 on: September 11, 2019, 12:23:15 AM »
An interesting discussion about acknowledgment and ones own healing on another thread https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11094.msg741015#msg741015 has thrown up some quite different perspectives.

Which has made me realise that I feel increasingly bolshy about discounting my own needs...even needs that I don't expect to be met.  :)...bc of someone else's crisis. I may (imperfectly) understand why they treated me so atrociously but I do not want to gaslight myself bc of my own compassion or knowledge.

It was reasonable of me to expect to be treated with respect, grace and decency by a h wanting to end a long m that I did not want to end. If the roles had been reversed, or he had not been in crisis, both of us would have felt enough old love and self respect to want the other person to be as safe and well as they could be. That wasn't what happened. And not wanting to feel like a victim with all the negative self talk that brings does not change the reality that I WAS victimised....and it's ok for me to say so and ok for me to have some beliefs, if not expectations lol, about what a post-crisis healthy person should do to be accountable for their own actions. Even if I think they will never do it, it's ok for me to judge them as half-cooked and still being selfish and avoiding if they do not. I deserved better, my marriage deserved better....and I will not say differently just bc someone else is unable or unwilling to act that way or bc that is not how it was/is. I will not gaslight myself into pretending this s$it is a normal or reasonable way for a spouse to behave bc it isn't. And I have the right to judge them for it and to say that it is not ok.

I have wondered if - along with all the other great benefits of HS - there is a risk of a growing familiarity with MLC almost subtly 'normalising' it in a way. We become so familiar with the script that it becomes predictable...actually to the point of almost being surprised if we see glimmers of normal lol. Bc it isn't good, it isn't normal and it causes profound damage to everyone touched by it. No matter the reality of a crisis, no matter how much compassion I may have, an explanation is not a justification. Nor is it a lifelong free hall pass from being expected - even if you consistently fail - to act like a decent adult human. People break the law all the time for instance...but that doesn't mean we stop expecting people to keep the law or change our legal system to fit their behaviour. We may not leave some people unsupervised in our house lol...a good boundary based on our life experience....but burglary is still a crime. And most people are not burglars.

I think it has to be possible here to not be caught in victimhood AND to not devalue the real impact of the damage caused by someone else and how you feel about it. An apologetic burglar does not magically leave me unburgled; a remorseful burglar who wants to try to make some amends doesn't either but it increases my belief that they are not a lifelong burglar and bad selfish person. And I might get a feevif my items back. Might not still leave them unsupervised in my house lol....but I might be able to find some hope for their changed behaviour and redemption.

Most of us here loved our spouses very much. We didn't want them to become these awful versions of themselves or for us to become their collateral damage. It seems quite reasonable to me that even years later one might hope for signs of their healthy redemption as well as ones own recovery, even if they are completely separate processes. I heard someone talk on a podcast about how their crisis and affair was like a series of initially small choices that rolled them down a hill like a snowball turning into an avalanche. And that even just a few weeks before, when they were still at the top of the hill, they would have been horrified and completely denied that they would ever do what they did. But from the top of the hill you don't see those small choices as the beginning of the avalanche. That you don't plan the avalanche....but that you can't get back to the top of the hill if you deny that you are up to your neck in snow and that you rolled the first snowball. How I struggle my own way out of the avalanche does not change that and I don't think it is healthy for me to pretend it does just bc it might be uncomfortable for others.

I really loved and liked my then h. He was a pretty good person...but he rolled that snowball and created the avalanche. And it didn't just almost kill him alone. I may love him differently now he is no longer my h but I still hope that he finds his own way up to the hill again. Denying the reality of either the snowball or the avalanche doesn't seem very helpful to that, either for him or for me. I reserve the right to take what was done TO me personally in my response even if I don't take it personally as being CAUSED by me bc actually that is reality. There is a reason why truth and reconciliation processes are seen to be healing and constructive after both crime and conflict....even if they don't always work with given individuals. I suspect that what I need as an LBS, even though I do not expect it to happen, is an MLC version of a Truth and Reconciliation process. And I have the right to believe that it would be helpful to me if I was part of one while going on with my life anyway. And to challenge an MLCer who feels they are out of their crisis about it even if they or others disagree or feel criticised.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 12:40:21 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Onward

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1470
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #127 on: September 11, 2019, 12:33:25 AM »
Hear, hear! Once again, Treasur, you have articulated almost precisely the thought running through my own head. Exactly this.
"and though she be but little, she is fierce" - Shakespeare

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #128 on: September 11, 2019, 03:42:52 AM »
Sat waiting in between hospital appointments (news so far is not great but far from as bad as I had prepared myself for it to be, so all ok) and wanted to say something about self worth.

I know that some LBS have their own FOO or life experiences that can be part of the mix for them. ALL MLC spouses - to greater or lesser degrees, and in different ways - are abusive and destructive. ALL LBS - to greater or lesser degrees - are forced to defend the things and people they usually value most from that destruction while being devalued, deceived and attacked. ALL LBS - to greater or lesser degrees - acquire losses and damage and some of it is life-altering and irreparable. And all LBS - at one time or another - question what kind of person behaves this way and how little those doing so value the things and people they are damaging including us.

Muse on a short factual list for a moment of some of the things your MLC spouse has done to you or your family....
Now muse on just how bad a human being someone would have to be for you to think that they were worth that kind of treatment by anyone....
Now muse on how close that is to a description of you as a person or your past actions......

I'm prepared to virtually bet a great deal that the answer is some version of 'not even close'.
Which is why THEIR behaviour has zip to do with your worth or self-worth not. Nothing. Zero. Zip.
But it tells you a great deal about THEIR worth and self-worth as a human being currently.
Jmo.

We have lost things we valued, true.
But the fact they don't value those things says nothing useful at all about their inherent value.
Are our homes less cosy? Our kids less loveable? Our pets less fun? Our work less important?
And they have lost us whereas we have only lost the new MLC version of them. Which is probably more of an escape than a loss tbh although it takes a while to see that bc we feel we are losing the pre-MLC version.  And they lost the pre-MLC version of themselves first long before we even knew it could be lost.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 03:47:31 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #129 on: September 11, 2019, 04:55:20 AM »
Well it looks like a return visit tomorrow on my wedding anniversary gah. Hey ho, I am reframing it as self care lol and a gift to me  :)

Hospitals always seem to involve lots of hanging around don't they? Which for me is often thinky time. My former h is on my mind this week which feels understandable tbh. In fact I was chatting to a chap who lost his wife ten years ago, has remarried actually, but it's his 'first' wedding anniversary this week too. We agreed that wedding weather is often lovely in September. He said that although people in RL don't understand it, he always takes flowers to her grave on their anniversary and 'chats' to her.

It really does get easier with time doesn't it? Even if there is some residue. I suppose life forces us to accept how it is even if we are left with questions about how it became so and even if it still seems peculiar. I enjoyed my life with my much loved h. I don't regret marrying him. And I couldn't have foreseen what he became, truly I couldn't. Nor could I stop it once it started. I still find it surprising that whether by accident or intention he chose a future that completely excluded me. My h and best friend would have found that as inconceivable as I do.

But it turns out that something I thought was for a lifetime turned out to be for a season. Albeit a longish season. This week though I am increasingly conscious and grateful for the love I had and the love I gave. I know what it is like for someone to look at me as if I am a rare treasure. I know what it is like for a room to be nicer with a particular person in it. I know what it is like to enjoy someone else's face simply bc it is their face. I know what it is like to share myself without walls. I know what it is like to create things with another person and feel proud of those things. I know what it is like to love without doubt. I know what it is like to feel part of a team of two. I know what it is like to know every inch of someone else's body and everything from their favourite colour to their favourite food. And vice versa. These are all good fine things to have experienced in my lifetime. And my only regret today (other than his crisis of course) is that bc I thought I would always have these things, I rushed past moments when I wish now I had paused to savour them a little more.

So today, and hopefully tomorrow, I will feel grateful for what I had rather than sad about what I lost. And very grateful indeed that I can savour those memories now in a way which my xh probably cannot. If it hadn't been so good to have, it would not have been so devastating to have it taken away. I would not have chosen a life without my h but I am very grateful to now have a life without MLC in it
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 05:23:38 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #130 on: September 11, 2019, 08:47:07 AM »
Back home and a brief chat with the young guy working on the garden. It camevout that he is treating his girlfriend to a romantic weekend in London and they are staying in a bit of central London I knew well. So he asked me for any recommendations on dinner/drinks. I was chatting to him about a particular hotel which has the most glamorous cocktail bar and a tucked away little centuries old basement bar that is fantastic for late night brandy and falling over. As I was describing it to him, suddenly my old life came back in my head. All the times I had met my h in that cocktail bar in the hotel where I had my hen night and we spent our first wedding anniversary. A special place for both of us with a great restaurant that we would probably go to about once a month meeting there after work, eating great food and sharing a dessert. And the late nights with work chums and friends in the basement bar saying I would just stay for one drink...and then being poured into a taxi at 3am. A lot of very happy memories. None of which I imagined.  :)....look, this count your blessings thing works.  :)

My gift to myself tomorrow - as well as a hospital appointment lol - is that I am going to drop off my engagement ring for repair at the local jewellers. Some of you might recall that months ago, maybe last year, I caught my hand on a door and almost lost the tension set diamond. And I wasn't sure if it was a sign or if I was prepared to invest the money or emotion in getting it related. But now I am bc it has only love and hope and joy associated with it, so I shall wear it on my right hand with my wedding ring when it is repaired. If only to nod at those two folks who drank cocktails in the glamourous bar and never imagined that this kind of darkness would be part of their lives.

I feel strangely close to my h right now (I say h bc that is what he is in my heart if not in RL...and tbh I wouldn't want to feel close to xh  ::) ) and it is quite a nice feeling but not one that makes me even think about contacting him. Bc I honestly believe he no longer exists. But I suspect if he remembers what day it is tomorrow, he will think of me too if only for a moment. Bc much as he tried, we did exist and I still do.  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Couragedearheart

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #131 on: September 11, 2019, 11:57:55 AM »
Treasur,

Yes!!!! How beautiful and poignant to have a moment where you can look at a memory and say....no, not this one....this moment was mine and it was happy and real and true and I chose it for myself to keep and cherish.

We forget that we have this capacity, to separate the now from what was, and that one does not diminish the other. Your memories are true. They are real and they happened. That can be true, without having to change your feelings about the current reality. There is room enough for both.

While the MLCer certainly can explode our lives....the one thing they cannot do is change the past. That can never be taken from you. It is yours and you own it. Wether you see it or not you are reclaiming your power. Throwing off the little ways in which MLC stole bits and pieces of your life, pushing back and saying “ No...you don’t get to take this from me!”

Look at you grow Treasur! ❤️ You are becoming. It’s a wonderful thing. 😊
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline KeepItTogether

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4941
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #132 on: September 11, 2019, 01:21:11 PM »
Happy to hear you are "indulging" in self-care via the medical appointments. One can never be too safe.

Your reminiscing about that hotel and bar really resonated with me. I tend to shy away from those memories b/c they have caused me pain in the sense that they are no more, and I miss those days.  But that is living in the past isn't it? You have inspired me to attempt to think of those times with joy, though there still might be a little melancholy associated with them. And the ring--wow. I am so impressed. That is yet another hard one for me, although I think I may look into selling mine. I do love the idea of keeping them as an homage to a past, beautiful life while looking forward to see what great things are to come.
Me 47
H 46
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #133 on: September 12, 2019, 02:03:11 AM »
I woke up this morning on my wedding anniversary to big soft sunshine, just like it was in 2003. And I woke up feeling a funny kind of grateful happy. Really grateful for the happy 19 years. And profoundly grateful to have survived the last 3. And grateful for the man I knew and enjoyed so much. And grateful to not have the MLC version causing chaos in my life stomping all over the good stuff.

And yes, I have stopped running from those memories now bc they are full of joy.

I mused this morning on why I held on for as long as I did. Lots of complicated reasons like shock etc. But actually it was more simple than that. I held on bc I wanted to believe that my h would return to himself bc I really valued him. I was wrong but it was an honorouble and loving wrong. I held on until I stopped believing that he would bc he had created too much life damage to ever be quite the same person. Or so it seems to me. I could not have loved my h more. Which is why I held on to see if he would show up. It is also why I decided to love him differently and let him go as he demanded in the awful destructive way he chose. Both are about respect I think. And respect is the foundation of good love. But he was a pretty great human being and I am sorry that I don't get to see that man with coffee this morning.

After the worst of the storm, I think we move to live in some peculiar 'in between' places emotionally and mentally. Lots of both/and. The absence of my beloved's face feels wrong to me, like the universe is slightly off true somehow...but of course it may be the necessary or right path for my xh. Who knows. Both can be true. And I can feel deeply grateful for the love I had and equally grateful to have no contact with him now. It's a strange place isn't it?

Anyhoo, today is a day of sunshine, gratitude and lots of different versions of self care for the happy bride I was and the woman I am now  ;)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 02:21:55 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline One day at a time

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #134 on: September 12, 2019, 01:53:45 PM »
I love hearing you talk about your memories with so much joy.. It's a sign of how far you are, isn't it? From what you write I always got the feeling that your marriage was a happy one and your love was pure.. So it's good you are able to tap into that without feeling sorry for yourself and what you lost because that was part of your life and your story and nobody can take that away from you, not even your xH.

I can't remember if it was my thread or someone else's but I mentioned a while ago that I don't seem to be able to access my memories and I'm not sure if that's because I simply put them in a box and locked them away or they feel tainted after the last 2 years' events.. Either way I'm not going to go searching for them because I'm not sure I want to remind myself of what I had and no longer do... But it does make me wonder if I'm "running" from the memories and if it's actually healthy for me to simply walk away from them.. Maybe my grieving has been more about the lost future, hope and dreams.. The life I was meant to have in the future but no longer will and the fact that I have to build a new life now.. Your musings always make me muse!  ;D

Interesting about the ring. I still have mine but don't wear them, they are put away in their boxes... (along with my memories maybe?) I hope they can fix it for you and you can proudly wear it again.. Grateful for what you had and grateful with no contact, strange indeed but makes total sense, at least to the LBS army!

Edited to add that I hope your health issues are nothing more that an inconvenience... I hate hospitals, a few hours there feel like weeks!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 01:57:03 PM by One day at a time »
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline Mortesbride

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2461
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #135 on: September 13, 2019, 01:49:18 AM »
Just catching up. What news from the doc's? Everything going to be okay?
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #136 on: September 13, 2019, 02:42:29 AM »
It will be, Morte, in a few months time with treatment so I will be ok. And actually I am coping with it pretty well. The irritating thing is that it means delaying a couple of other things just at the point when I am ready to crack on with them. But thank you and no need to worry x

I DO like this time of year. Cobwebs in sunshine. Always did. And today is another pretty day.

One Day, I am not sure at all what changed but yes, something has. I can remember the joy and ease of what we were together. Of course it wasn't perfect, whose relationship is? We both had our failings and some less than joyful days and tough events. But yes too, it was a really good healthy honest happy relationship where both of us, as far as I can see, felt safe and appreciated just as we were. Who wouldn't feel grateful to be in a marriage like that? Well, at some point evidently, the depressed/broken version of my h lol. But until then....it was a good place and that's why everyone who knew us was as shocked as me bc it felt like a good place to others too. To the point where some friends almost envied what we seemed to have.  I had forgotten just how good it was bc the sheer horror of what he did/became threw a blanket over it and then it was just too damn painful to remember. But it isn't now. Still feels surreal to have lost it but I seem to have accidentally found faith in what it was.

It is true though that my h became someone who simply could not do that kind of relationship anymore. It was built on openness not walls....for whatever reason, he became a person of walls. As Nah said somewhere, there is nothing normal about someone throwing up those kind of walls and ghosting you after decades of experiencing the opposite.  I honestly don't know if I will ever have a relationship again and it won't be the same of course...but it is a useful reminder to me of how I like to love and be loved  :)

Yesterday I wore my wedding ring for the day although I took it off again this morning. Not bc I feel married but as a kind of homage to those two happy people. And while I was at the hospital and experiencing a bit of discomfort, I closed my eyes and touched the ring to distract myself. And as I did that, all kinds of memories came back from our wedding day, things I hadn't even thought I remembered. It made me feel less alone I suppose, as if that old h was supporting me. Gosh, there is a special kind of LBS loopy that we only understand here isn't there? I'm not sure anyone I know in RL would get that at all lol. Well, maybe a widow or widower. And I had a kind of flashback to his face waiting for me as my father walked me down the aisle...he was doe-eyed with a mixture of real joy and a kind of seriousness. Getting married was a big deal, a tender reverent sort of thing. He looked like he had won the lottery but needed to hold it gently...I remember being surprised that I was more nervous than I imagined bc it seemed so important. But I also remember that I had no doubt at all that this was my person and me his and that getting married was absolutely the right thing to do. Not one doubt. How could I not feel grateful for that? It is his tragedy that he destroyed something that he spent years seeing as the biggest blessing in his life.

It also occurred to me briefly...although I pushed it out of my head bc the day was about the two of us...that his face did not have the same look of openness or reverence at his second wedding in the few pictures that I saw. I don't know what he felt, but maybe a second marriage can never carry that kind of open delight and seriousness of a first. There is too much damage and lost faith maybe. Idk. Not something I have experienced or indeed plan to experience. I am simply grateful for what I had and that I can remember it so vividly.

I did miss my h a little yesterday but not in a horrible way. Just in a kind of 'oh dear, how sad that you died and I wish you were here still' way if that makes sense. My heart was just full of love and grace for him as my beloved, as a human being. And today, I return to pressing on with my new After life and the different blessings that come with it.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 02:46:40 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Maleficent

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 222
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #137 on: September 13, 2019, 06:43:27 AM »
Treasur, I am glad the treatment will be manageable and relatively short.  You know we will all worry though. 

Quote
And today, I return to pressing on with my new After life and the different blessings that come with it.
Amen. 
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline Nerissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #138 on: September 13, 2019, 07:25:05 AM »
Glad to hear the appointment went ok.

Online Wilderheart

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Gender: Male
Re: More After Life
« Reply #139 on: September 13, 2019, 09:15:43 AM »
Hi Treasur, I know exactly what you mean when you talk of your wedding ring, I really miss wearing mine it's in a drawer atm but I do consider that one day I may well wear it on my right hand but not just yet. Your posts have given me a great deal of strength, I think my memories will always be tainted with a sadness but I hope also that someday I will catch myself smiling and appreciating and owning the past 27 years. Thank you.

Offline Finding Joy

  • Trial Subscriber
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 358
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #140 on: September 13, 2019, 12:33:30 PM »
It truly helps to look at the old h and new h as two different people.  You are able to look back on all of those good memories and moments with fondness and detach it from the ugliness of who he is now.  You are coping in a similar way as I am in this regard.  Similar to a widow.  It helps because then all of those years do not feel in vain.  That h, the one before the alien invasion did love you, those memories are not lies.  He just broke.

I’m glad your health situation is looking manageable!!!
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #141 on: September 15, 2019, 06:53:49 AM »
Bit of a recuperation few days so I am having to pace myself, but I am doing well.
Lots of gentle thoughts coming out of my anniversary week and on a weekend when usually we would be somewhere like Paris for the weekend. A few moments of yearning. Surprise at how right it felt to have my rings on my left hand for the day...my left hand felt better somehow...still took them off the next day though. A few tears. The odd nice dream. A few smiles at memories popping up out of nowhere. A deep sense of gratitude for what I had and a little sadness that it has gone. And underpinned by a soft sense of disbelief that I still seem to carry even though I don't chew on it now.

Did think this morning though about gently acknowledging to myself how many layers there are to the losses in this experience.
Maybe not for all, but many of us had happy healthy marriages that we enjoyed. One loss.
Then most of us experienced infidelity and all the associated drama that goes with that which makes you feel so humiliated and devalued. Another set of losses.
Some of us then experience divorce, often with an MLC flavour, and the practical effects of it. More losses.
And then for most of us, in varying degrees of madness, we wrestle over a long period of time with a spouse who doesn't just no longer love us or even just prefer someone else but who seems to hate us to the point of incomprehensible insanity. So we start to see them differently, we have to. Maybe the hardest loss.

Anyone who survives that level of loss and enforced life change without losing their sanity or humanity is a bit of a hero or heroine in my book. It is remarkable that we do and a testament to us all. So I am having a day when I am feeling a little bit proud of myself and I think you should too  ;)
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 06:55:11 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline One day at a time

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #142 on: September 15, 2019, 08:45:01 AM »
There's definitely a lot all of us should be proud of, Treasur. Surviving this nightmare and really push ourselves to become better people despite all the abuse and hurt we experience is a merit in itself..

I hope you get your strength back in no time, mind yourself!!  I'm also having a bit of a slow day here because I have a cold and yet still decided to do 4 hours of Zumba yesterday  ::)   
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3677
  • Gender: Male
  • Back to being #1 for my daughters!!!!
Re: More After Life
« Reply #143 on: September 15, 2019, 09:42:11 AM »
Hello,

Up early getting waiting for my wife as she gets ready for breakfast. Maybe it is just me, but the way you write really gets me to think. Often, I just read your posts and contemplate your words and rarely post back. 

Quote
but many of us had happy healthy marriages that we enjoyed.

Yes, I find myself going back now and actually talking about the good times I had with my ex and my children. In fact I don't even have to counter it with a bad memory. I think of some of our trips together and just the time we spent together. Like you, it wasn't perfect, but it did seem to have more highs than lows and while I may have done things differently, I went with the flow of the water and this is where I landed.

Quote
I don't know what he felt, but maybe a second marriage can never carry that kind of open delight and seriousness of a first.

This was like a stone hitting the water and it created many ripples for me. I do remember waking up and feeling so excited on the day after my first wedding. I got in the elevator at the hotel and engaged in short conversation. Of course, I had to tell the group, "I'm going down to get coffee for my WIFE and I." With enough emphasis on wife as if I was the only person in the world with one.

Yes, the first marriage does carry a sense of wonder.

For the second, I am at a different awareness. The confidence I had of the first relationship was like a shield that I placed so much faith in is long gone and in this marriage, I now know how quickly things can turn south. A marriage is not forged of steel, but bound by mind and flesh and the flesh can weaken and the mind wander.

However, for my second wife, maybe the wonder is still there. After all, I am her first real marriage. She and her ex never exchanged vows, no rings to remember, and no certificate to sign. For her, this marriage is real. There are rings and a marriage certificate. It is real and I can see in her eyes, the confidence and wonder that many of us had so long ago.

Quote
Then most of us experienced infidelity and all the associated drama that goes with that which makes you feel so humiliated and devalued. Another set of losses.
Some of us then experience divorce, often with an MLC flavour, and the practical effects of it. More losses.

Yes, the losses were great and I get the honor of being the only member of my family to have a divorce. I know that feeling all so well. You lose so much value in yourself that you just begin to think that there has to be just something wrong with you. That maybe the MLCer is right and it is all your fault and the failures can be all traced to you and you alone. That the other person is better and that they are in a better place when they are with that person and not you.

Quote
Anyone who survives that level of loss and enforced life change without losing their sanity or humanity is a bit of a hero or heroine in my book.


I agree that you have to go through a special process to heal. The death of the marriage at the hands of our own spouse hits really hard.  That not only do they betray you, but hold you responsible and vilify you makes it more troubling. I sometimes have trouble wrapping my head around it. If we had tried and failed and both agreed we would be better off on our own, it would have been tough, but the way it went down still makes me twinge from the pain even to this day- and I am happily remarried.

Yet, we do move forward and we realize that the journey to success on the forum is not about whether we stand, reconnect, remarry, date everyone, or live alone, but it is about reclaiming ourselves, finding within us that we are desirable and worthy of love, to live life, laugh and cry, but knowing that we will survive.

May I also add not just survive but thrive makes it even better.

(((Hugs))) and more (((Hugs)))

Ready





"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #144 on: September 16, 2019, 03:12:06 AM »
Thank you, Ready. Yes I remember my h doing that WIFE thing, dropping it into every possible interaction for a few weeks lol. It was sweet. Don't know what the feeling behind it is....pride? Ownership? Good fortune? Idk. I didn't do that. I think my sense of having him as my HUSBAND grew on me actually over a number of years. Not sure what my feeling was either...maybe a bit of pride? (Lol before the fall, oh dear). A sense of being blessed? Idk. But it was a good feeling  ;)

Thank you too for not letting my stone create defensive ripples  :)
That wasn't my intent at all of course...and I imagine there is a difference in a marriage built on crisis and one built on healing. But either way, good or bad, it is different isn't it? And for me anyway, a lost feeling to mourn.

I seem to be in the in-between space of surviving and thriving. Neither one nor the other. But each day I do seem to take a small step closer to wanting to thrive again and it is an entirely different vibe than surviving. I am grateful for it. It feels as if I am beginning to recommit to life now inch by inch even if I am not quite sure what thriving will look like. But most importantly of all maybe I believe I can. And that is a big deal to feel.  ;)

It is drizzling here...like a Scottish summer lol...so a slightly damp and shorter beach walk thinky this morning. Your post Ready made me realise that I had beliefs that I don't know what to do with now. Some of them I have probably regretfully let go although tbh I wish I didn't have to, but I would feel delusional if I didn't. For a while, my life turned into one of those Dateline episodes and I'm still not entirely sure how that happened.  ::) yet I don't want to live with ghosts or see the world as being full of broken monsters.  :)

Some are a bit more baby vs bath water and I just don't know if it's important to keep them or keep a slightly different version of them or a version for me vs others. Beliefs about quite big things...love, family, friendship, normal, happiness, success, justice, kindness, respect. I don't really know what to do about most of them at all. Which is an odd feeling. In one way, it makes no sense that the actions of just one broken human should change them so much. But at the same time, my recent life experience maybe did prove that a lot of what I believed in, things I believed in enough to build my life on, were wrong. Or not quite right anyway. So it's an unresolved itch....yet I don't want to throw baby and bath water away just because it is tidier to do so.

Maybe I just need to take them out for a test drive in my new life and see what happens lol.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 03:35:37 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Online TreasurTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8258
  • Gender: Female
Re: More After Life
« Reply #145 on: Today at 12:36:59 AM »
Recuperating nicely, walking slowly  ;)

For those coming behind me who feel they will never feel ok again, you can. I find now that I do. Going through the kind of hell that leaves you so battered to feel that way is awful. But oh my word it is a nice feeling when it you start to wake up and feel ok again ;)

And one of its' gifts is how your lens changes and you suddenly see simple things much more clearly.

The whole 'what do I believe/want' now thing? Well I'd guess most people have that after an enforced life renovation right? I realised this morning that what i believe in has probably stayed much the same in the sense of my values. But what I believe has changed bc this experience challenged some of my beliefs about myself and others. What's that saying about a plan making sense until you get punched in the face? My experience at 55 has caused some dissonance between my values and my beliefs about how my world works and how I work in it. But the core me is much the same and learning to trust her again, that it is ok and safe to be me, is my job now. Even though I may need to act 'as if' sometimes before I completely feel it in the way I used to. My work in progress  ;)

Gman posted something on his thread which really made me think this morning....but it feels true. Maybe not for everyone here but it feels true for me. But it got clouded for a while for me.

I was a good human before this storm hit. Loyal, loving, generous, creative, fair minded, kind, optimistic. Good qualities. Not perfect. I was a bit smug, complacent, even arrogant sometimes, the kind of arrogance that makes you a fixer who doesn't put yourself in the centre of your own frame perhaps. And that meant that in some ways I hadn't always fulfilled my potential maybe. But I was a decent human, a good friend, a loving wife and daughter. There was nothing about me that made me undeserving of love, compassion and respect. Really there wasn't....and it was probably the same for you.

But when we are punched in the face by life, we feel so much less don't we? All of a sudden it seems like we have gone from being an everyday rolling along car to one that needs a huge list of emergency repairs just to be roadworthy again. And on top of those emergency repairs, we start to feel as if maybe we should be a different kind of car altogether or a different colour or be able to drive faster or that we should never have chosen that kind of car in the first place.

I am not against the need for new life skills to survive a new experience. I am not against 'mirror work' either in the sense of using the experience to think about the kind of metaphorical car you want. But oh my goodness, it gets muddied by those emergency repairs and feeling as if your old car is a pile of junk now and as if you will never be ok to drive again unless you scrap the old car for a shiny new one that everyone can admire. One that comes with some guarantees and maybe free servicing lol.

But I don't think that is the truth for most of us here. I honestly don't.
My old car maybe needed a polish and some new windscreen wipers but it wasn't a heap of junk....until I got rear-ended by life lol.
I think I was a pretty decent nice human with a lot of lovely qualities entirely worthy of love and respect and kindness. There was nothing wrong with me; I was just a normal kind of car driving on normal roads in normal weather. Maybe I didn't have snow chains in my boot or needed those windscreen wipers....but there was nothing really wrong with me until I got rear ended by a metaphorical hit and run drunk driver in bad weather. I didn't cause either the weather change or the drunk driver or his choice to drive away from the scene  :)

So, my big message today which sounds a bit silly but actually might not be at all...
There was probably nothing badly wrong with you or me as a person, friend and spouse before life rear-ended us. If events outside our control had not happened, me and you would have probably carried on driving along without doubting that at all.
I was a pretty good human worth every inch of love, respect and kindness. So were you.
I am still a pretty good human worthy of love, respect and kindness. So are you.
A couple of dents does not make a solid car ready for the scrap heap  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline UrsaMajor

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9075
  • Gender: Male
  • Live like they are never coming back
Re: More After Life
« Reply #146 on: Today at 12:50:25 AM »
But I don't think that is the truth for most of us here. I honestly don't.
My old car maybe needed a polish and some new windscreen wipers but it wasn't a heap of junk....until I got rear-ended by life lol.
I think I was a pretty decent nice human with a lot of lovely qualities entirely worthy of love and respect and kindness. There was nothing wrong with me; I was just a normal kind of car driving on normal roads in normal weather. Maybe I didn't have snow chains in my boot or needed those windscreen wipers....but there was nothing really wrong with me until I got rear ended by a metaphorical hit and run drunk driver in bad weather. I didn't cause either the weather change or the drunk driver or his choice to drive away from the scene  :)

So, my big message today which sounds a bit silly but actually might not be at all...
There was probably nothing badly wrong with you or me as a person, friend and spouse before life rear-ended us. If events outside our control had not happened, me and you would have probably carried on driving along without doubting that at all.
I was a pretty good human worth every inch of love, respect and kindness. So were you.
I am still a pretty good human worthy of love, respect and kindness. So are you.
A couple of dents does not make a solid car ready for the scrap heap :)

WORD!

And, with a little TLC (aka self-love/self-care), those dents can be straightened out as well.....  and then we can be classics!
« Last Edit: Today at 12:51:47 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Legal Disclaimer

The information contained within The Hero's Spouse website family (www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com, http://theherosspouse.com and associated subdomains), (collectively 'website') is provided as general information and is not intended to be a substitute for professional legal, medical or mental health advice or treatment for specific medical conditions. The Hero's Spouse cannot be held responsible for the use of the information provided. The Hero's Spouse recommends that you consult a trained medical or mental health professional before making any decision regarding treatment of yourself or others. The Hero's Spouse recommends that you consult a legal professional for specific legal advice.

Any information, stories, examples, articles, or testimonials on this website do not constitute a guarantee, or prediction regarding the outcome of an individual situation. Reading and/or posting at this website does not constitute a professional relationship between you and the website author, volunteer moderators or mentors or other community members. The moderators and mentors are peer-volunteers, and not functioning in a professional capacity and are therefore offering support and advice based solely upon their own experience and not upon legal, medical, or mental health training.