Author Topic: My Story Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.  (Read 2312 times)

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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My Story Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« on: August 17, 2019, 06:31:14 PM »
New thread.  I am unsure how to link it. 

My profile gives the recap, but basically my h is beginning the D process.  The man he was before is completely gone, he seems unstable.  He wants nothing to do with me and has alienated his kids. 

He is in the military and is a 2nd generation MLCer.  I am standing in the sense I am not going to date for a few years, but unsure I would take him back.

The truth is, our life was so normal before this, now it is crazy town.

Previous thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10764.0
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 03:20:01 AM by Thunder »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2019, 06:45:23 PM »
Hi FJ,
Latching on for the ride.
So sorry this is happening. Praying that H comes around and makes some improvement soon.

Hold tight, you're doing amazing. So much strength.

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline Ausgatorgirl

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2019, 07:05:45 PM »
I’m sorry FJ. My military exH was the same. He is a vanisher. Left at BD and I’ve only spoken on phone once. We are divorced. I figured all I could do was stand aside and let him leave after 34 years. It’s heartbreaking but there is no other way. I’m living life as if he is not coming home (he tells everyone he is never coming back). I’ve got a great job not dating yet and live near adult children. Thought we had a great marriage, but seems I didn’t know he was unhappy for past 5 years. He lives with much younger OW. I don’t snoop, know very little and keep it that way.

Hugs.
Me: 58
H: 59
S30, D27
Married for 34 years
BD 11 August 2017
OW - yes, maybe multiple
H: Vanisher and Avoider
M: Letting go, trusting the process.

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2019, 09:01:19 PM »
Attaching, FJ. Just posted on your old thread before I noticed this one.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019

Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11093.0;topicseen

Offline One day at a time

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2019, 04:39:37 AM »
Attaching FJ..  Just read the last update on your old thread.. I'm very sorry for you and your kids  :( Your H clearly does not care about anyone bar himself which is MLC script. Everything will be your fault because that removes any responsibility for him and in his skewed mind, makes perfect sense.

If you were to stay, can you do it without his involvement?  In true MLC fashion, things will probably get worse with him so relying on him to stay might not be the best option. Can you stay if he divorces you? I know you will have to move but would you be able to support yourself and the kids or will you depend on him for that?
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2019, 08:43:13 AM »
Hi SS, AG, PJ and One Day.

One Day, That is where it becomes really complicated.  The only kid that does not want to stay an extra year is d7.  So the other 3 want to stay and I believe the pros outweigh the cons for those kids.  We live on base in a not so great area of town.  We drive 15 minutes to anything and 30 to church and where I would want to live if we were here long term.  The littles go to a school just outside of the base we live on(it is awesome).  The bigs go to a school 10 minutes from the Naval Hospital base my h works at.  It is just what they need.  If we stay and I work here next year I need h take take my two bigs to school.  There is no other way.  They do not have busing.  Which means I would need to live near his work.  There is a pocket of housing that is safe right by the navy hospital.  I just prefer to live in another area in the suburbs as a single (scaredy-cat) woman. We all feel completely safe on base. So we would have to live there and I think it would work.  Also, it makes licensure super tricky.  I could possibly just work at a private school next year and still get TX teacher licensure to simplify things. 

It would be cheaper to stay here a second year.

PJ, Thank You for lighting that candle.  I’ve never been through anything this hard.  Yes, I do have 4 people in RL(who live far away) to confide in.  I’m thankful for them and he.

AG, 34 years!!!  Wow!!!  Good job standing aside, I seem to put my foot in it every other day.  I’m pretty sure this crises does not play into my strengths.

SS, I’ve been keeping up with your thread!  I’m so glad things are looking up for y’all!  I guess we are as strong as we need to be.  I am no stronger than that.

Journaling,  I found out my divorce care class starts this week(no one was there when I showed up last week).  We are becoming members at church and highly considering staying here the next two years for s12 and d14.  I do not see is staying long term, but who knows.

Why is h so cruel to me.  After the kids tried to talk to him he spewed so much vile garbage at me.  He said he feels sorry for my future husband, that he cannot stand anything about me.  My looks, my faith, my personality.  He blamed me for s12’s Dyslexia.  He said he cannot be married to me a moment longer than he has to.  He was so disrespectful to me in front of the kids and basically four times made statements against our faith in front of the kids.  It is a nightmare.  Who he is now scares me.  I talked to my sil last night and she thinks we should leave to get away from him.

He has been short tempered with the kids, but last night was the first time he was so ugly to them.  D12 and d14 finally told him how they feel.  He was not gracious.  D14 says she never wants to see him again.  The situation basically forced him to reveal his true colors and they were old enough to see it for what it was.  He is putting himself above them, he is fine with them being a 12 hour drive away.  They now know who he currently is.  My heart grieves.

He also said that I am getting what I deserve(being a single mom of four kids).  That he is willing to take a couple of kids and since I do not want him to, I cannot complain about raising them on my own because it is my choice.

There is only one kids that would consider living with him d5 and after a week even he would miss home.  I would never want to lose custody of our kids, I just wanted him to come home and be a good husband and father.

After last nights crazy.  He texted he will be at church this morning.  This after spewing atheism at the kids last night(at which point they told him to leave). 

The kids and I are adding Sunday evening church activities into our schedule.  Basically Choir for the littles s12 will learn technology stuff(sound system, cameras, learn to volunteer), d14 May do youth praise team.  She sings at home and is an exceptional pianist, but so far to shy to join the band.

I had better get inside.  Crazy h will be here soon(at church).
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2019, 09:04:10 AM »
Tbh FJ fwiw I think your sil is right.
For very good practical factual reasons.....ranging from your support system through building a career, being able to plan longer term and having a life which is not tied to the whims or spew of your MLC h. They are predictably unreliable as parents sadly for everything big and small, so basing their schooling on him doing anything consistently is a gamble with poor odds based on what others have experienced.

I understand you wanting to listen to your kids and respect their needs too. But they are kids and a few months ago felt differently. Right now you are the only sane adult in your family and adults get the deciding vote imho. As an adult you understand things your kids cannot and can predict risk in ways your kids cannot. Your h's sadly predictable reaction to them asking him as they did tells you clearly that he will not put his kid's needs or stability first...so imho you must. They might not want to move or for things to be as they are...but that doesn't change the new realities that your h has created..and that he is not interested in compromise or anything but what he wants. Tbh right now bc of his career you have some leverage....I can see risks in delaying any divorce including maybe custody, and I'm sure you don't want that. .I honestly think you have to steer your family to a safe harbour and explain to your kids that part of being a grown up is making the tough decisions. MLC trumps divorce; it does not mean that reconciliation is always impossible....but keeping your familiy's metaphorical wagon hitched to someone acting this way carries significant risk practically and emotionally for you and your kids. Jmo.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2019, 11:53:38 AM »
Hi Treasure!  Yes, if I had a support system in the town we would be living in I would be gone ASAP.  I do agree with many of your points and all of this weighs on my mind.  A high part of my reluctance to leave lies with s12 and the program he got into this year.  In TX I could not afford it.  This program at his school could make the difference for him in having the option to go to college if he chooses, or not.

It is difficult to know what to do in that way.  Also, it does mean a lot to me that my kids go to a school that holds our beliefs, they do here.  They will not in TX.

Ultimately, I have to make a decision soon. 

Journaling, so my h showed up at church and none of the kids would sit by him, so I had to.  S5 would have, but he goes to a class.  It wasn’t awkward at all.  I am very detached from this alien version of my h.  The message was on loving even those who hate you, or spit on you...

H apologized to s12, but not to d14 or me.  Basically d14 told him he is no longer her father and has not visited him since he left.  So he is probably holding a grudge.  He wants to meet with me tomorrow and used the word civilly.  He never wants to meet me.  I expect either spew, him trying to come to a compromise or him saying we can stay in the housing.

In other news, I am on a 21 day smoothie cleanse.  3 of the days is a detox with only green smoothies(which I love).  The smoothies are really good and filling.  I am scaling back my working out during the cleanse to just a walk on the beach or bay everyday. 

Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2019, 12:06:28 PM »
All you can do FJ is make the most rational and optimistic choice from the options in front of you. It sounds as if you are trying to balance some different things, sort of apples and pears? And trying to figure out what are needs vs wants, knowns vs unknowns and whether x is more important than y.

My only tip which I use with clients sometimes is to write each issue on a separate card...not the problem but what you want/need...and then start sorting through them to see which are more important and if there are some hidden links between them or where you might need more info. Use a different coloured card or pen for more info needed. Then take your top 5-7 and using different coloured card or pen brainstorm some different options for each one so you can challenge your own assumptions on different ways to achieve the same end...and there are often way more than we think. And all while reminding yourself that you and your kids will be ok whatever you choose bc you will make it so  :)...and trust us here that you will FJ bc it's true. You are building while your h is busy destroying....you can't change his actions or mindset, and he will sadly eventually reap what he sows...but you can change yours.  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2019, 02:35:09 PM »
Thank You Treasur!  I appreciate that advice!  I forgot to mention, I do not necessarily feel like us living here an extra year gives my h more of a likelihood for custody.  The truth is he would not want the littles and if the bigs wanted to live with him at some point I could not stop them.  The only way they would want to is if he gets his act together.

Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2019, 08:36:23 PM »
So H wanted to meet tomorrow, but I wanted to know why before going.  He basically wanted to discuss last night, but said none of his decisions have changed.  I said if nothing has changed we can discuss what you want to discuss over the phone. 

Basically he just wanted to go into detail about why he did what he did.  No apologies, more blame shifting, same old.  I asked him why he says all of the ugly things he does to me about not loving me etc.  That he is divorcing me and I am not contesting it, so why be so ugly.  He says I cause him to say it.  He says he no longer finds me attractive.

A lot of what he says doesn’t hurt me anymore, but this did.  I think because there is a feeling of him taking my youth and then disposing of me.  I am in great shape and look like I did when we met, but am 38 now.  So I found his comments hurtful.  As if to say I am only as valuable as my looks(which will fade).  There are so many emotions that go into what he said.  The thing is, I am not threatened by his comments.  I see my own worth, but for a man who made a vow to love me for always to say such a thing.  It was just hurtful.

Also, it is such a double standard.  He has aged way more than I have(especially recently), he is balding.  But, I could care less about his looks.  What attracted me to him was his sense of humor, character, his integrity.  So, truly I can say I am not attracted to him, because he is no longer a man of integrity, he is not funny and he seems to have no character.  But, why would I say that to him....  That would be hurting someone just for spite, which is exactly why he told me.  He enjoys hurting me.  I’m getting tired of dealing with him.  I have questioned moving to text only, but am concerned that if I do, he will as well and then communication could get difficult.  He calls all the time, but just for kids, finances etc.

Also, I’m lonely.  I cannot be alone forever and I feel like I have been alone in this marriage for way to long.

I am thinking of changing gears a bit and getting my Masters now versus waiting.  There are pros and cons, but it would mean if we want to stay here, I can run the kids around myself and I am still flexible with my schedule while my kids are still young.  It’s just a thought for now. 

The truth is, MLC or not, the more my h puts me through, the more done I am.  He is in MLC(I will give him that), but ultimately he is making these choices.  He is accountable.  I do recognize that I am accountable for how I react and am continually trying to grow and do better.  I have failed at my part in all of this quite a bit.  I fail to zip my lips regularly.  I try to fix and lecture my h.  I am frustrated with myself.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2019, 09:29:01 PM »
Sorry he's saying such awful things. I'm sure this is one of the most difficult things you've ever gone through. I know the last three years were the hardest of my life. And I'm old!

Take it easy on yourself about being a fixer. I'm a fixer too. There were many times my attempts to fix things were counterproductive, but I never tried to fix anything out of disrespect or a sense of superiority. You probably haven't either. I think that wanting to fix something that is broken is a natural feeling. It offended my MLCer wife, but she is broken and she sure wasn't making any effort to fix herself. So excuse us for trying to help, right? You said a lot here, but the fixing issue is one I used to beat myself up for, but eventually decided not to feel so bad about. Take it easy on yourself - you shouldn't have to be perfect. Trying not to offend an MLCer is like trying to shoot an arrow through the eye of a needle while riding on horseback standing on one foot blindfolded in the rain.

"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019

Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11093.0;topicseen

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2019, 12:00:56 AM »
Don't worry, FJ, you will learn bit by bit.
And each experience like that will help you see that you are no longer dealing with a normal decent adult and that logic does not reach them.

Your instinct was right not to meet.
You knew that he would most likely just spew and justify his spew.
Next time you will probably cut the phone call short when he does.
These are the experiences that shape our boundaries. We stop doing things the way they want us to do when we choose not to listen to hurtful spiteful things and when we stop fearing their reactions when we say no.
I would humbly suggest that communication is already 'difficult'...so you will reach a point where you will saybif you can't be civil I will end the phone convo...and if he won't modify that, you will say that you will only do email or emergency texts as a way of limiting your exposure to what is abuse.

What you said to him was quite reasonable. His response was BS...if you could 'cause' him to do anything, I'm sure you would cause some rather better behaviour right? And yes, trust your instinct that he wants to be spiteful, he wants to hurt you....makes no sense I know, but MLCers are full of rage and a need to justify and blame the LBS.

And he knows you well enough to know your weak spots. Of course it is shocking and hurtful...but the list of abuse MLCers come up with veers from the standard (old/fat/unattractive/controlling/stealing my money) to the absurd (walks heavily/dog is too fat/your fault I didn't become a racing driver/rock star). Please keep holding to the truth that this isn't about you and his words are just MLC brain vomit. You know that in your heart.

The horror of what they do and the kind of humans they become for a while does serve the purpose of helping us to detach more. Which in turn reduces the impact of the BS stuff. With time, you will take a more detached POV about it and him but it is harder to do that if a bit of you is still on the battlefield isn't it?

The masters sounds like an interesting idea...is there any way to do it that is independent of a location change or transferable if you do move?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Nerissa

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2019, 01:18:55 AM »
I’m not sure knowing this much helps your hurt feelings in the short term, but it does longer term I think:  understand that the contempt he shows is about his shame and his inability to regulate it.  Contempt is shame turned outwards.  You are doing the best thing by not retaliating as he will stop doing it more quickly.

I used to JADE (justify, argue, defend and explain) but I shouldn’t have as it just dragged everything on and he isn’t going to listen in this state.  You seem to ‘get it’ much quicker than I did and are being a fantastic parent.   

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2019, 04:37:36 AM »
His spew about not finding you attractive? PROJECTION! He looks in the mirror and sees an old guy going bald and projects that on you....

He is, as others have noted, simply blame-shifting in order to avoid being held accountable for his actions/words. Until he gets his head out of his .... fog... that is NOT going to change.  I mean, seriously.... How does he explain that YOU are responsible for s!2 being dyslexic? How does he justify that D14 doesn't want to have ANYTHING to do with him as being your fault, after he spews his vitrol....

One question to consider is whether or not that kind of person is someone you want in your kids lives?

Treasur is right - H needs to have boundaries set... as in
"You will speak to me civilly or the conversation will be ended until such time as you can speak civilly to me."

From my perspective, he is going to push the D through as fast as he can so your time on military housing is limited. It would be best to plan for that now and to have choices instead of having to react at the lasst minute and possibly ending up somewhere you do not wish to be.

While I understand that the desire to have your kids in a church school is enticing, in the grand scheme of things, does that outweigh the damage that H is doing by his continued nastiness?

Taking the kids desires and wishes into account is important but is it as important, does it outweigh the exposure to the disrespect, the denigration, the blaming, the refusal to take personal responsibility for his own actions/choices, the spew, the verbal abuse? What does that exposure teach them?

Is there a way to reduce their exposure to such influences and still stay where you are?

Just a few things to think about as someone (ex-Navy) who had a Monster in my first go-around.....
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

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Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2019, 05:26:12 AM »
UM, He never says or does anything in front of the kids, short of the other evening.  It is all said privately or when they are not around.  So it only effects them because it effects me.  Overall, outside of the other evening, they are beginning to thrive.  Part of that is the amazing staff that pours into them at their school.

I do agree though, if we stay, my walls will get higher.  The truth is, I need to learn to get out of the fight and just get off the phone.  He says that d14 feels the way she does because back when he lived here, she overheard us arguing and that is my fault because I was way more emotional than he was.

I don’t cure see a clear path forward with staying or leaving.  I am unsure what to do.

Nerissa, I get it in word only.  I allow him to draw me in at times.  It’s probably the loneliness.  I love JADE!!!  I will use that.  Thank You!

Treasur, you are right about my contact with him.  I should not engage.  I should have just gotten off the phone.  I do see my part.  I need to not try to fix/lecture and just listen.  If he monsters I need to get off the phone.  I have to grow in this.

The Masters degree is online and works for either state.  It eliminates the problem of me working and eventually getting a master’s at the same time(which may never happen with 4 kids as a single mom).    But it would mean me getting a masters in School Counseling versus Educational Diagnostician.  Basically to be an Ed Diag you have to teach 2 years with a valid teacher cert before you can START the masters.  So I need to figure out reality, probability, and what is best long term. 

PJ, I like your simile;). Yes, it does feel as if we are expected to be perfect.  He told me, if this is my best, that is pathetic the other evening.  I had told him I am doing my best.  Yes, I can relate to this being the hardest thing you have gone through, it is for me as well, hands down. 
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2019, 05:41:10 AM »
FJ, I have to say I think you are doing tremendously well for so early on. I get that it doesn't feel that way to you but we can see it.

What kept me engaging...and therefore taking more hits...was that I simply couldn't swallow that my then h saw my thoughts, feelings and wellbeing as completely irrelevant to him. At best. At worst he got some kind of kick or sense of power from doing things that hurt me or made my life harder. It isn't normal, my friend, so it takes all of us a while to 'get' it enough to stop expecting anything else. But when we do, and you are getting closer and closer, the simple things and simple boundaries do help. And we stop caring so much about their opinion of anything really bc it is mostly MLC BS and me-me drama.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2019, 08:14:41 PM »
I just had my very first “touch and go”.  He was normal.  He called and gave a very genuine apology about the other day.  No justification.  He said that he struggles with feeling cornered(I get the impression he Monsters to others), and that he should not have said all of those ugly things to me.

He was considering how to repair things with the kids.  I explained to him that they seem to all act the same way now about and towards him as he and his brothers acted towards their MLC Mom(negatively).  He questioned if s12 would want to visit this weekend.  D7 will have her beach party and become d8.

I told him not to give up on d14, that she is hurt the most because she was a Daddy’s girl.  Ultimately nothing changes, but it shows the kids turning on him did effect him.  Not enough for him to care if we stay or go ::)

He practically admitted he was just trying to hurt me.  I was proud of myself because I did not try to say too much.  I did apologize for my part.  He brought up that sometimes when he lived here the kids overheard us(and said he was at fault too).  I said I wish I could say I would have done things differently, but that in those early days(after bd) I was traumatized.  That I truly did try my best to protect the kids. 

The truth is, in those days I cried 24/7, but never stopped functioning.  I cried and cooked, I cried and drove, I cried and read to them.  I was truly in my own fog.  Me functioning was all I could give them.  I could not give them a pretend smile, that came months later.   I was as broken as I have ever been in this life.  It’s interesting, because life seems hard, but when I look back over the last year, I am better now than I have been since bd(and the months prior to bd). 

I mentioned that before this past many months, we rarely argued.  That we had a peaceful home.  He did most of the talking.  At some point I did ask, do you ever question the results of your new belief system.  It seems to have only brought pain to us all.

I know he does go to counseling. 

The kids and I are in a better place now that school has started.  The structure and routine is good for us.  I feel better and I think they do too.  S5 is struggling with the long school days.  None of my other kids went to school all day in kindergarten, I think k-5 should be a half day, but it’s not here.  I don’t know if it is his personality, his Dad leaving or something else, but s5 is regressing with me being able to leave him.  When I try to drop him off he clings to me.  None of my other kids did this(I will say they were all homeschooled until recently), the others were glad to have a bit of space from me;)

Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2019, 08:23:41 PM »
Very cool, that's great FJ!!!

Now.... how did you feel about it?

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2019, 08:41:00 PM »
I don’t think I can truly feel much about it.  It would take many months of kindness and respect for me to be able to let him in enough to feel anything in a good sense.  He is still divorcing me, he is still in essence making it very difficult for me to chose to stay here.  My life is in shambles(and while I try to forgive, I have to daily)I don’t know, It’s good, but I know it changes nothing.  He did pause when I mentioned that for 16 years prior to his deployment we rarely argued and had a peaceful home(overall).

But, I would for sure prefer to deal with this version of h than the one I have dealt with for a year.  I do give him credit for never going back on his word(so far) about anything financial.  I do believe a large part of that is that he would get into trouble with the military if he did, but I still give him some credit.  We have had to tightly manage, but have not gone without.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2019, 08:49:41 PM »
Totally makes sense. Glad you're protecting yourself emotionally.

I really hope this "version" lasts. Any improvement is good even if it's not what we really want.

One step at a time.

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2019, 09:14:50 PM »
SS, Yes, I cannot remember the last time we had a genuine conversation.  In the early months we did some, but they were all him genuinely giving me bad news;). So, any improvement is good. 
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2019, 03:53:20 AM »
Hello,

First off congratulations on your first touch and go. I was so excited about mine, I thought we were reconnecting. LOL The most important thing is to maintain the same level of measured response with him as he sorts through his many emotions. As you don't get sucked into his roller coaster, then you will be fine.

As an educator,

Quote
None of my other kids went to school all day in kindergarten

I know that many of my colleagues and parents love all day kinder. I think it is good for many kids but not all. My oldest would have easily made it through the day but my youngest needed the half day. A full day would have been to long for her and she needed the rest.

She learned a lot in that half day and ended the year as a reader which is all that I could ask for. Unfortunately, everyone is on the bandwagon that more time in school is better and children like your son- don't get the best. You may ask if he can be put on a half day schedule for the first part of the year. He can then grow accustomed to school and leaving you. It may make everything better for you, the teacher, and most importantly your son. I don't know the laws and regulations in Florida as they shift from state to state and I don't know how this would impact your schedule, but it is something to consider.

Other than that, you seem to be doing well and I am glad that you and your family are doing so well.


(((Hugs))) and more ((((hugs)))

Ready
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2019, 07:17:21 AM »
Ready!  I educated my other kids classically and so the more traditional model is hard for me to prefer. 
I really prefer letting them be kids early on(with lots of reading, math and games for learning.  Also, I am biased because I went to public school, but in kindergarten-2nd we got an earlier day.

My little guy is a summer baby, so he is one of the youngest kids.  Truly, my 1st grade daughter struggled last year as well with it being too long.  She is second grade now and seems fine.  It is all new to me.  When my bigs were this age, they got all the work in, but since it was individualized learning the school day was much shorter.  We will get used to it I guess, since it is the norm in education now and seems required at the school he goes to.

Journaling-Something that my h has consistently brought up since bd and brought up last night is our differing beliefs.  This is something I cannot/will not change for the marriage.  Before the deployment my husband and I had similar beliefs.  We put God first and gave the kids a Christian education and home life.  Until this year, their life was stable.  My husband even has a double major in ministry.

Anyways, something we discussed for months after bd is that he is no longer a practicing Christian.  He has turned from his faith, his old beliefs and moral code.  He curses God and in the last year has done so many times in front of me.  At BD I found all of this out.  Originally, I told him I would stand by him so long as he did not speak against our faith in front of the kids, expose them to bad things and allowed me to raise them in my faith.  I told him if he treated me well, respected my beliefs and stayed faithful I would stand by who he is now.

He was back and forth for months with this.  He saw us as going in opposite directions(we were), and I wanted to do what I believed was right.  In scripture, it says that if you have an unbelieving spouse who will stay in the marriage, you should stay in the marriage, but if they want out, let them go. 

1 Corinthians 7:14-15(NIV)
For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.

I felt betrayed, like a bait and switch had occurred.  I married a like minded person who had now flipped on every belief he/we ever held dear. 

But, he did not treat me well, and he was not faithful.  So at some point during an argument I told him, I cannot accept you as you are because you treat me so badly and are committing adultery.

I’m not sure how to explain.  My h never changed his mind.  He said he wanted a divorce and did not love me, but for a period of time he seemed to contemplate.  To try with me, but his trying was mixed with a ton of monster, staying out all night, talking to other woman, putting me last and treating me like dirt.  He also never let me go to his work or work events.  He never hit me, but there was an incident where he knew I was in the bathroom behind the door and he slammed the door against the wall, saying he did not know I was there.  But, we were arguing and he did know.  He collects knives and guns.  There were incidents when he would scrape his knives on a sharpener and have a creepy look in his eye.  A couple of times he made comments that I had better stay in line. 

That is when I slept with the door locked and when he moved out, I was relieved the second time and also sad. 

So, last night when he was more normal, in passing he brought up our differing beliefs.  He did it in a way that showed me it is a huge obstacle to us ever getting back together.  Unless he comes back to his faith, we will not get back together.  Mostly because he has no moral compass.  He believes it is ok to lie, cheat, put himself first, and treat me badly. He has admitted, he just makes up the rules as to what he believes as he goes.  Pretty much, if he wants to do it, he believes it’s ok, regardless of consequences.

I really always wanted more traditional roles.  I wanted him to be the leader of our home.  I especially wanted him to be the spiritual leader of our home, but he never has been.  Not in the 19 years we have been married.  If we ever reunite, I will relay my hope for this change.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline One day at a time

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2019, 12:17:27 PM »
FJ, I wonder if your H is bringing up the beliefs difference because he knows it's important for you and he's trying to justify why your are "not compatible" anymore?  My H did something similar, in my case was kids. We spent 15 years together in which we both were sure we didn't want to have kids. Then all of the sudden, he changed his mind but tried to convince me he had been thinking about it for years but didn't tell me because "he knew I didn't want them" - In a sense, he got his way because that really shut me up, how could I fix that?  He found the one thing that would actually cause me to back off....  Then I learnt about OW and guess what? She wants a family!! So I guess that's where his desire to have kids came from... I think that if he goes ahead and has children, he will be miserable but maybe I'm deluding myself, who knows!

Someone told me once that MLCers become the opposite of what they were and that could be a reason why he wanted kids.. I was not convinced then but in the last few months I have seen things I never thought were possible.. I hope nobody gets offended by this... here it goes. I was raised catholic, I stopped practicing many years ago but I took a view of "live and let live". I respect other people's faith and beliefs, I just don't share them. My H is (was?) atheist and sometimes rather impatient with people who believed in God, something I didn't particularly like about him to the point that when I felt he was going too far with some comments, I would call him out.  And yet he's now in a relationship with a Muslim girl and I have seen pictures of him with her and her family, all women wearing hijabs (except OW because she's not married yet). This tells me he has inserted himself in a very religious setting and that is so opposite to the H I know, I now believe he's truly in crises and has no idea who he is anymore..

Sorry, I didn't want to go on and on about my story but I just wanted to give you a couple of examples that show that what you are seeing in your H might be a direct result of his crisis, not necessarily the person who he really is. I guess the big problem is that we don't know if they will ever "find themselves" or will continue in crisis mode until it's too late  :-\
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2019, 09:02:13 PM »
One Day!  It really is insane how they reject everything they believed and/or wanted before.  That is the problem, we truly don’t know who they will chose to be at the end of this, or if it will end at all.

Your h’s choices are so polar opposite!!!  I cannot imagine going from being an atheist to the Muslim culture.  Everything they do revolves around their faith and of course the kid thing!!!

I cannot imagine how he will feel if he really has kids and then wakes up from this....  Those choices will follow him always!  Also, if he marries this woman and then tries to leave her, I’m thinking her country could have major repercussions for him.

Journaling-I had forgotten h was coming for the kids today.  It was raining and I did not want to leave, so I did not offer like I normally do.  He picked up the two littles(s12, and d14 did not want to go).  Really d7 never wants to go, but is forced.  I bribed her before he got here because none of the kids except s5 want to go with him and I do not want him to give up on his kids.  So at least for tonight he does not know d7 had no interest in seeing him.

He is for sure trying to make things better with everyone.  His tone with me is completely different.  He brought gifts for the girls and took the kids to Pieology(read, he spent money and drove 20 minutes one way). 

H brought up us using a mediator without lawyers.  This is funny to me because a few months ago he talked about needing a lawyer to protect himself from me.  Our situation is too complicated for me to be comfortable with no lawyers.  His pension is tricky and has to be handled just right, plus he does not yet know FL has permanent alimony that I plan to use in negotiations.  I do not anticipate custody to be an issue as he expects standard visitation and shared legal custody, but I will get physical custody. 

He is still adamant that I will not get the house.  The tenants lease will be up before the d is final, so I may just agree to put it up for sale.  The neighborhood is at the center of downtown and is walkable to everything, the school district is top notch, and my neighbors are amazing.  One neighbor from our old neighborhood owns a resort and offered the kids and I to stay as long as we want next summer(after finding out about h leaving).  If we moved back, I would have a support system.  So there is a draw to want the house.  I loved walking to date-nights when we lived there because you could get a Friday evening drink and walk home at the end of the night.  Though, I cannot see walking alone at night as a single person(even if the area is great). 

But, ultimately I cannot afford to buy him out.  We have too much equity and the area is too expensive.  So unless he does a 180 we are selling.  The mortgage is very doable for me if I owned the house with what we owe on it.  Mostly because when we bought the houses in that area were not nearly as expensive and interests rates were low.

I did a list of pros and cons for moving or staying next year.   The list to stay was very long, I could save a very healthy amount of money renting next year and work as a teacher here.

The list to go is shorter, but more substantial.  I do not want to get a Masters right now because that would tie me down.  I have no debt, and if I chose to work part time in a few years, I can, but not with a masters.  I would have debt if I got the masters now.  If I wait, the district may cover it.  Anyways, if I stay I would just need to rush and get done with all of the Fl licensure before this school year ends and work as a special ed teacher next year.  But, the FL licensure requires a test on high school math and it has been a very long time since I have done that.  Staying keeps us in limbo land, but would allow me to be in a more comfortable position when we buy a house in two years. 

Tonight was weird with h.  I think I am detached enough not to be effected by him.  I must be in observer mode.  He will not look at me.  He does not raise his eyes to meet mine.  He dropped the kids and I passingly commented I should have had him bring me some(cauliflower pizza) back.  He kind of laughed in a light way.  I maybe for the first time felt sorry for him.  For who he is.  For the fact that his kids do not want him and this divorce will leave him pretty broke.  For the fact that I know this will all end badly for him.  I don’t understand why anyone would destroy their life.

He called later(after leaving) versus texting that he got a reminder about a Drs appointment for s5.  I find him calling when he only has 1 factual thing to say odd.  It is his norm.  I think somewhere deep down he has a need to keep trying to be my friend to ease his guilt.  Like, we are buds now, water under the bridge.  The odd thing is, I am detached enough now that we could have an easy relationship if monster stays at bay, but I don’t know that I want him as a bud.  All of my friends are awesome people.


Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2019, 11:17:30 PM »
Unless i have misunderstood, it sounds as if the core difference between staying and going is that staying will leave you all in a kind of limbo for 2 years? So i guess you need to reflect on the pros and ons of limbo as a way to live?

Good instinct on lawyers fwiw. i hate to be so cynical about MLC spouses dropping the monster behaviour but unfortunately it isn't uncommon that they do it to 'nice' you into something they want e.g. we don't need lawyers. Sorry. You and your kids do; he can choose for himself. There is no 'we' because that is what he has made. The underlying truth of course is that your spouse no longer cares about your needs or his kids needs, or not on a par with his own anyway. If he did, he would be making different choices and the house is an example of that. Absence of monster does not equate to normal decent adult imho. You may well see monster return when you say no to things he expects you to say yes to. And an MLCer and mediation are almost always like oil and water. Doesn't stop you inviting him to put an offer on the table so you can see what he comes up with...but mediation is based on the assumption that there are two sane relatively honest adults in the room.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2019, 07:28:17 AM »
Treasur, the list is long with staying or going so I will not give all of the details.  Staying does mean staying in limbo, but it also means when we do leave we have closure on many things.  S12 will have finished his NILD program(this program is key to his future)and junior high.  D14 will have finished high school and gotten braces off.  I would be able to save some major cash renting here for a year(and when I buy I would be in a better place, I would know where h is getting stationed next(which matters significantly), and I would be a year out from d and ready for a fresh start.  My career would be the same outcome, but staying means I work harder this year.  If I leave now, I will not have a support system, if I leave in 2 years d14 would be driving.  H does help with hauling kids to activities(or did last school year and says he will this year).  I don’t have a peace about staying or going.  I do not want to make these decisions, but I have to this week.

Also, staying means I delay deciding where the kids and I will live forever until I have the facts.  If h does not get stationed where we used to live(he will not know for 1 1/2 years), I will move to East TX which is more affordable and has the lakes, trees and rivers I like.  If h gets stationed in the TX hill country, I would move there because I am concerned that eventually at least one of my kids will live with h at some point.  Even 10 years from now, and I do not want to live far from my children.  My s5 is highly likely to want to live with h when he gets older(especially if h is normal by then) if even part time.  He loves being around men.

I completely see that he could be trying to be nice for the purpose of negotiations.  My relationship with him is completely separate from what I need to do in this d.  He wants it, and I will put the kids and I first.  He did say the other day that he knows he will be paying me for a very long time.  I was instructed early on not to rush out and get a job and that is why I didn’t. 

Staying means a free move in two years(we will be putting that in d).  Basically he barely has anything, so when he gets re-stationed the military would move us.

The school district I am looking at moving the kids and I to is one of the top rated in TX, and the housing is more affordable than our old house was.  I know the area and even know which church we would attend.  If I stay here an extra year I could save the money I need to get everything we will need for the house, and possibly do some renovations before moving in.  This area is much more affordable.

I did have my first panic attack since the early days of bd last night.  Prior to bd, I had never had one.  I am not used to being alone to make such big life altering decisions.  H was my high school sweet heart.  I was in my senior year when we met and 19 when we married.  I have never been an adult without him by my side until now.

The idea of moving across the country alone is scary.  If I said the word my family would be here and move us in a second, but I have never been one to ask them for anything.  If I start acting like I do not have a handle on things Papa Willie will try to take over my life(it is just his nature to help in a very strong way). 

If we move next summer my MLC husband plans to drive the uhaul across the country(gentleman that he is) and get us settled in.  He has always been the one to drive large trucks, not me.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2019, 07:46:56 AM »
I think there is also some part of me that does factor in h when thinking of staying.  Leaving would feel like completely giving up on him and I’m not ready to do that so early on.  The reality is we are getting a divorce, but a part of me still hopes in the next two years he will begin trying to reconnect.  That is difficult to do 12 hours a part.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2019, 08:21:11 AM »
No need for the details, FJ. Share what you want. We're just here to help you think out loud, that's all.

I get the feeling of making big decisions solo. And the panic attack. Tbh it is probably too bc the answers aren't simple and there is uncertainty right? It would almost be weird if it didn't feel how it feels. But you obviously have a good strong head on your shoulders and whatever choice you make, you can manage it so you and the kids will be ok.

I understand why you might be reluctant to ask for help right now....and yes sometimes people want to help in ways we don't quite want lol...but keep an open mind about asking for help when you do know what you need. And don't worry too much about the yet far off mechanics even if we all know that relying on the services of an MLCer is hit and miss. You will figure that stuff out when you get there, you will ask for the help you need, you will find creative solutions and you will learn new skills. Bc dear FJ, thatbis obviously the kind of woman you are.

And the panic attacks? Two things helped me most. Learning to deep breathe from the belly and walking them off. Hope that helps you too.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2019, 10:12:52 AM »
Thank You Treasur!  It really helps to walk through it step by step.  I no longer burden anyone in rl with this stuff.  Outside of more general information. 
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2019, 10:23:34 AM »
Oh FJ, my heart goes out to you.

It's nice when they're nice, but it starts so many questions doesn't it?

I wouldn't give in to D yet..... look how fast he turned "nice". Yeah, it could be other reasons but you don't know. Even H probably doesn't know (if he even understands that he's being nice).

More time, more time.

Another thing I've noticed (I don't know if this happened with everyone) is when they get " better" or "cycle up" or whatever it is...... it causes all kinds of bad questions in your mind. These really suck, and there's no explanation for it. Is it weakness? Insecurity? Outside influence? Unknown...... but whatever it is, it's not good.
Something that has helped me is: Take what they have to offer..... it's all they have to offer right now. It may not be what you want, it may not be what you need.... but it's all they have. Take it, enjoy it, value it for what it is. Then put it away and call it a day. Tomorrow will be something else. Hopefully something good again, but maybe not.

I think his upswing is an opportunity...... maybe not clear thoughts from him, but clearer than they were. This is where changes in you can get his attention (either on a conscious or sub-conscious level) Be strong!!!! They may not say anything, but they see. You may ask and they will deny seeing anything. They see!!!! They will only be honest later, maybe much later.

You're planting seeds right now. Watering them is up to him, but God has a hand in that too.
Holding on to hope for you and H.

-SS

P.S. Remember that YOU are the woman of his dreams. No one can touch that. W and I are high school sweethearts too, M'ed young. The MLC'er (and others) think this is bad, or maybe they missed out, etc.......... Nope!!!! You have something very special. You grew together and pair-bonded like few will ever know. It's beautiful. He'll figure it out (IMO), your brains are wired together because you finished developing together..... there is no escape.
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2019, 10:47:51 AM »
SS, Thank You!  I am detached enough to be able to be kind and polite from a distance, which should help.  I do agree that it is hard to replace what was a good relationship for so many years.  The bond was very strong.  Unfortunately, I cannot stop the d.  I live in a no fault state.  The only question is, once he d’s me(it should finalize late May) and I get kicked out of base housing, do I move back to TX at that point, or rent here for a year.  He is stationed here for 2 years and he hopes to be stationed in TX next. 

So it is all very complicated.  The d will happen short of my h repenting.  I almost believe it needs to happen for him to repent.  I do believe he will resubmit his life to Christ, but I am unsure if it will be in time for our relationship  to be saved.

This week I have to decide all of this because I will either need to sign up for TX teacher licensure or FL.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Schratz66

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2019, 07:00:34 AM »
Attaching Joy
Me 52
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2019, 08:11:17 AM »
SS, Thank You!  I am detached enough to be able to be kind and polite from a distance, which should help.  I do agree that it is hard to replace what was a good relationship for so many years.  The bond was very strong.  Unfortunately, I cannot stop the d.  I live in a no fault state.  The only question is, once he d’s me(it should finalize late May) and I get kicked out of base housing, do I move back to TX at that point, or rent here for a year.  He is stationed here for 2 years and he hopes to be stationed in TX next. 

So it is all very complicated.  The d will happen short of my h repenting.  I almost believe it needs to happen for him to repent.  I do believe he will resubmit his life to Christ, but I am unsure if it will be in time for our relationship  to be saved.

This week I have to decide all of this because I will either need to sign up for TX teacher licensure or FL.

Hey FJ,

May is a LONG way away. He can't reverse it before then? It's past the point of no return for filing things? Personally I HATE the "no fault" garbage which is in the laws. Super destructive and super lazy. Removes consequences and life is all about consequences. If I ever become a politician that's at the TOP of my list of things to change back. I had read a statistic somewhere that when the laws changed that way, divorce EXPLODED all over the country. Oh you're cheating? Guess what? You just lost EVERYTHING. Put the screws to someone, get the screws back in return. The law should protect the innocent, not nail them.

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2019, 08:52:08 AM »
SS, He can for sure change his mind and not go through with it.  Nothing has been done.  But, short of a miracle he has every intention of divorcing me.  He has not been one to waiver too much on things, at least not out loud to me.  I believe he will divorce me unless God gets a hold of his life.

I agree, the laws are ridiculous!!
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2019, 11:57:13 AM »
FJ,
Then keep hope alive!!!

Things happen the last hour of the last day. He's swinging all over the place, and honor does mean something to servicemen. It may not today, it may not tomorrow, but May is a long way away.

And God isn't far away at all. He's right there.

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2019, 12:18:49 PM »
SS, I do have some hope for our relationship long term, I just don’t have a lot of hope in him not divorcing me.  He is really early on in his MLC, so I think the fog is at its thickest.  For me, a d does not necessarily mean our relationship is over.  I would not date for at least a year after a d(even then I would become friends first), and am open to trying to reconcile with h.  I know God can change things, and I also know my h has free will and is running from God as fast as he can.

I have accepted either outcome.  I have accepted a life with my h, or without.  I can be a lighthouse(and have only just begun to be capable of this), but I cannot force him to want to be married to me.  I accept that I have no control over his choices.  I accept that I will be ok with or without him.  I accept that I need to do what is best for me and the kids for now.  He has to chose me in order for our marriage to work, it cannot just be just me choosing him.

Also, I am not necessarily willing to wait on him for years on end.  I made a three year commitment to wait(which will in essence be a year post divorce).  That doesn’t mean if he tries to come back in 5 years and I’m available I would not consider it, it just means, I will not make a conscious effort to stay single after 3 years post bd. 
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2019, 12:22:11 PM »
I should say, I do pray that God would change his heart(and there are many others praying the same).  Ultimately, he has free will and for now, he does not want our marriage.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2019, 03:10:17 PM »
Schratz66 Welcome!

Journaling, I am leaning more towards staying here for an extra year.  Not because I’m certain of what I should do, but because I can wrap my mind around it.  Moving and starting over completely is a lot to do with a pending d.  I have less anxiety when I think of staying.  I’m not ready for a completely new life and it might be a smoother transition for the kids to stay in the same town as their Dad.  Also, I will have felt like I gave it my all(my marriage) by staying.  So, the plan is to stay here for two more school years. 

So long as nothing major happens, I believe that is my choice.

My d14 started defensive driving at her school today.  In January I will begin to teach her the driving part(she will turn 15).  I am going to look into her getting her license a bit early so that next school year she can drive her and s12 to school and back.  We usually have all of our vehicles in cash, but h has totaled two vehicles this year(he had never been in a wreck prior.  So we owe a bit on his car(not much).  If he sticks to his word, it is supposed to become the kid car when d14 is old enough.  It was purchased with that in mind.

If I do end up student teaching versus being an interim teacher next year.  I will likely be able to do it at my kids private school.  They have virtual mentor teachers now!  But, I am leaning towards being an interim teacher because there is little downside.  A part of me wants to student teach next semester just for fun(is that 🤓 nerdy?), because I would get to be with my littles.

I think I have compartmentalized my marriage.  Like, that compartment is filed away and for now my wants, or hopes about it are in a box.  That box is out of reach for now.  I’m thinking it is away to protect myself, but I have not consciously chosen it.  I wander if my heart is hardened.  It does not feel so, but I guess towards my h it is.  I am now able to truly be kind to him, be around him, or speak to him without it hurting or feeling awkward.  I used to feel the need to punish him, but I now realize, his choices will have dire consequences.  I do not need to stay angry, or try to punish him.  He will pay a high price, and surprisingly(to me anyways), I will not revel in it.





Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2019, 07:26:49 AM »
Growing up I had red hair(strawberry blonde now).  It was a large part of my identity.  It is like being in a special club.  In High school I ran with two other redheads and we thought we were hot stuff.

Anyways, after getting married I prayed for a red headed daughter(the things you care about in your twenties ::)).  The gene has to be on both sides and the men in my h’s family have red beards.

So ultimately of our 4 children, both of our daughters have beautiful red hair, hazel eyes and fair skin.  My d14 reminds me so much of me at that age, and my d8 is just so spunky and cute! 

It is one of those little things about our marriage and my h that made me feel we were meant to be together.  Like I was made for him and he was made for me.  Divorce was never uttered in fights between either of us.  It was never, ever something I allowed myself to think of, or imagine.  In my heart and soul, I was committed to a lifetime with this man...

The thing is, I’m healing and I’m getting to a good place inch by inch, but it all just seems so unnecessary.  I never wanted to be single again(much less a single mom), but here I am, married and alone.  The thing is, somehow, I survived and the kids have survived and I even think at some point we will thrive.

I do hope my MLC husband comes home eventually new and improved, but if he does not, we will be ok. 
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2019, 07:04:29 AM »
Hello,

It seems you have a lot going on. The teaching will be a great option no matter when you start or where. Student teaching allows you to work with a master teacher, but no pay. Intern teachers pull a salary but are often really trying to figure things out on their own.

Quote
I think I have compartmentalized my marriage.

This is vital or you will find yourself constantly thinking about the marriage, your H, and where this is all going. That will not allow you to detach at all.

Unfortunately, in your life right now, you are the only adult in the room. You have done a great job of not letting your H's bad choices define your own bad choices. It would have been easy to throw him out and start looking for someone new. Instead, you are making yourself independent and capable of living a life without him.

I know you miss him and the kids miss him, but the person that you loved is not available right now. So why bother contemplating and wasting time on an image?

Quote
I do hope my MLC husband comes home eventually new and improved, but if he does not, we will be ok.

I hope so to. I don't know for sure, but I think my ex is coming out of her fog. We don't talk and I only saw her once when my oldest got married. However, she seemed different, more relaxed and not so distant. It was just a feeling.

So, I do hope your h comes back and realizes the most important part of his life, the part that truly brings meaning to his existence- is you and his kids.

((((Hugs))))

Ready

"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2019, 07:42:25 AM »
Ready!  Thank you for the information!  I could see how student teaching would have its perks(and for me be fun).  You’re right, mr becoming independent is vital for my self esteem and mine and the kids future, with or without my h or anyone else.

You are also right that I should not worry about the marriage right now as if he ever comes back I can worry about what to do then.  I am by nature a planner and constantly remind myself to live in the day.

Journaling,  The three youngest stayed with my h last night.  The kids do not like being gone all day Saturday, so lately, he gets them every other Friday evening and half of Saturday.  That is the agreement he and s12 came to.

So last night I went for Pizza alone and ate out on the patio!  It was nice and I ate the whole serving:)
D14 did not want to go, and I had supplies to get for d8’s beach party today.  There is a beach here on base with a park and pavilion.  It is always practically empty, so a good place for a birthday party. 

H has continued to be kinder than he was before the incident last week.  He calls about once a day for something or another.  Always short and sweet, never any substance.  I’m sure substance would change him from kind to not so much.  I am able to reciprocate and be polite with no expectations, r talks, or need to talk to him.

I have noticed a void in my heart, an emptiness lately.  I just miss my husband.  I miss being a team and having each other’s back.  I miss knowing I can count on him completely.  I miss how he sometimes spoiled me and how our goals in life were aligned(God, family, serving).  I miss him making the older kids give me a kiss on the cheek before bed(even though they felt they were too big).  I miss putting my cold feet on him just to annoy him and wrestling around the house with him and the kids.  I miss bantering about our days and his sense of humor.

I was always the planner, organizer, the one that kept us on track financially.  He was fun and would make me less serious.  Thankfully, this whole thing has made me less serious.  It’s as if as time goes on and I heal more, I can now remember why I loved/love him.

I am guilty of taking us for granted.  But, that may all be history now.  Just distant memories with no guarantee of future memories together.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2019, 08:56:21 AM »
Ready-Also, I meant to spell me, not mr above.  How long has it been since bd?  It is insane how long some of them take!!
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2019, 03:50:10 PM »
D8’s beach party went well.  I kept it simple and only invited the neighborhood families.  The kids swam and had ice cream sundaes.  We reserved a large pavilion, but only needed a small one.  Someone asked if we could trade and in return offered the use of their bounce house.  That was nice.

H was there and he sort of helped without us needing to talk much.  He did not have an attitude.  It was a small setting and it was odd seeing him amongst the non-MLC dads.  He has to constantly be moving, and he was much more hard hearted than they were.  He just comes off as hard hearted towards others in general(so not just towards me).  He overheard many of my conversations and vice versa.  Everyone I invited knows the situation.  My h used to be the life of the party.  I have always had deeper friendships whereas he has always been the guy everyone loves(but no deep relationships).  He was funny and easy hearted in crowds. 

Now he was much more reserved.  Not funny in particular, just there. 

My neighbor a few houses down is a military nurse.  Her h is a stay at home Dad that takes pictures on the side.  A couple of months ago I brought up to h the idea of family pictures.  Him with the kids, me with the kids and the kids individually.  The photographer was at my d8’s party today and my h and I confirmed with him we would like to do it when it cools down a bit. 

I always try and get family pictures at every duty station.  He says there is a place here on base right near the lighthouse that would work well. 

Today has worn me out.  I am hiding in my bedroom.  D14 offered to make dinner!  Lettuce wrap burgers for us and for the kids regular 🍔. 

D14 has been talking about doing a mission trip for a couple of years once she finishes her sonography degree.  She has her whole life planned:). She wants to be a medical missionary before settling down with a family.

Tomorrow night I will officially become a member at church.  Monday evening we will be pampering our Dog at a neighborhood Dog event.  The dogs get to do the splash pad, have doggy ice cream(whatever that is), and there will be bath stations.

We all adore our dog.  She is a rescue that we got after BD.  She is so sweet, well behaved and truly has been a gift to all of us this past many months.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 03:53:26 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2019, 05:56:39 PM »
You've got a lot going on, FJ. No wonder you're tired.

I have one redheaded daughter. I always tried not to assume that she would have a temper, but she sure does! I can't imagine having two. Yikes!

Congrats on your church membership.

Lots of smart people have told me not to make any major decisions within a year of divorce. It could be that staying where you are for a while would give you some time to recover before you take Texas by storm Or who knows what comes next?

You're doing awesome, but you're only human, FJ.  Hope you get some rest and downtime.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 05:59:46 PM by PJ Will Be OK »
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019

Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11093.0;topicseen

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2019, 07:01:18 PM »
PJ, I have one red head with a temper and one not so much!  It is funny that yours follows that script too!  I wonder what it is about red heads that make them feisty.

There will for sure be an early bedtime tonight:). It seems like wise advice not to make any major decisions for a bit.  I just couldn’t bring myself to move yet.  It’s too soon for me to completely detach.

Journaling-This has been a weird week with my h.  Changes.  Not that he wants me back or anything, but like he is starting to realize how horrible he has been. 

He called tonight.  He called to say what a great job I did on the party.  He said I made it special for d8.  He said a few other things and asked if it felt awkward to me.  I told him no.  That I am in a good place.  He said, good, I am going to keep it that way and quit acting like a j*ck a**.  I said time will tell.

There’s not much to think about it.  I mean he is being nice, but has made up his mind about a d and I’m pretty sure he still has an ow.  But, I will take nice. 

I do want some advice though.  He seems to be trying to be friendly/friends.  I keep it very to the point, but try to be kind.  He is no where near baked, but I did realize some months back that my actual first BD was while we(I) was getting the house ready to sell(we ended up renting it out).  Spring 2018.

He told me we needed to go to counseling, that he was not happy.  The gist of it is, at that time I was moving across the country against my will.  I was overwhelmed with homeschooling, fixing up a house, and doing all that it takes to move out of state with a large family.  I was sad about leaving my friends and extended family and I blamed him for all of it. 

When he said that, I really did not take him very seriously.  I did not have the capacity during that time to get what he was really saying.  So I said, when we get to FL we can go to counseling.  I cannot handle one more thing.

So my true 1st BD was not anything I recognized as a bd.  I remember thinking, back at you buddy.  I’m not thrilled with you right now either, but my not thrilled was different than his.  He was wanting to leave even then and I did not know it.

Back to my question.  What do you do when they start being friendly.  Just listen, be distant kind and polite?  Last weeks episode seems to have him wanting to change his ways some.  I guess him moving away from hating me so much is good.  At some point you want to be friendly and a safe place to land, but when do you know it’s time.  I do not want to long term be in friend zone.  He is not yet friend worthy.  How do you be the lighthouse, but protect yourself.

I have not told him I plan to stay.  Me staying means I do not need to push for a timeline on the d. 

I feel like he is reaching out, but I know it is not romantic.  Maybe just guilt.  Maybe a little tunnel movement.  I mean you would think he would have some movement, his daughter rejected him as a Dad and his son shoved a banana in his hair.  That is crazy-town, nothing even close has ever happened in our home.


Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2019, 07:29:42 PM »
Quote
What do you do when they start being friendly. Just listen, be distant kind and polite? 
Accept the friendliness but don't get used to it?

I don't know. I'm probably not the one to help with that. My W was a 3-year wallower before she left. Her replay was short and unsuccessful and she mostly was tired, lazy and self-medicated. Her monstering was never angry so much as teenager-like selfishness and petulance. I would say being formal and polite is a probably a good way to go. Affirm that you are listening so he knows he's being heard.

Quote
I feel like he is reaching out, but I know it is not romantic.  Maybe just guilt. 
I don't know, but guilt would be my guess. I'm a sample size of one, but my W never liked to think of herself as the bad guy. She liked to do little friendly things right after she did something awful. I think it made her feel better about herself. But I don't know about your H.

Hopefully someone more insightful will come along!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019

Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

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Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #48 on: August 25, 2019, 07:53:12 AM »
PJ, I think you are right.  He does not want to be the bad guy.  He is unwilling to change his actions as far as leaving his family, but does want us to all like him.  So, he is trying to be nice to ease his own guilt.

I will just continue to be polite, but distant. 
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2019, 11:41:59 AM »
We had an interesting morning.  My s5 has a sick stomach(likely from eating junk food at the party yesterday, he went wild).  So I took all of the other kids to church, but s5 and I stayed in the car.

I asked h if he was coming, and if so would he sit in the main service with the kids and then bring them home.  He agreed to come. 

The kids got home a bit ago and my d14 is in a great mood.  She starts talking about how the service was on how God can change peoples heart. 

She said when her D drove them home she asked if she could put on music.  She said her Dad said, I guess so.  She blasted a couple of songs for her Dad.  Both were from Judah and the Lions.  I had never even heard of them before.  The first is called, Why Did You Run and the second is called, Don’t Mess With My Momma. 

I just listened to them both on YouTube.   https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KmLDJeG5uCA

No one else in the family can get away with what d14 can with her D.  Mostly because he is trying to win her over(with very little effort). 

I cried when I listened to the songs.  My kids are good kids and they do not deserve this.  Also, because they are not making it easy on him.  If anything will motivate him to work through the tunnel, it is not me, but them.

D14 also told  me that her D acts like a teenager, but then she said, except I am a teenager and I am responsible.  Hmm, these kids are smart.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 12:18:48 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline beyondblessed

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2019, 01:42:27 PM »
FJ, the kids are wise beyond their years and are typically the first to see through the bs.  And, for what it's worth,  I would  not put much thought into your H's friendly tone at the moment.   As long as you play nice, he has no reason to rear monster.  They all want to feel as they are treating us so wonderfully because they are such great people, and great people are liked people.  But, just keep in mind, great people do not abandon and discard their families for other people or brand new shiny lives.  He's still early,  early into his trip to la-la land, so buckle up.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2019, 06:12:59 PM »
Beyond Blessed!  Thank you!  I think in my mind after a year of Monster(it started before BD), I was hoping it would just slowly and gradually improve with time.  Which in some ways it really is over all improving.  But, thank you for the reminder to put a check on my expectations.  I’m sure there’s much more fun to come ;)
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2019, 09:15:20 PM »
^^ What BeyondBlessed said. ^^

Not too long after BD, W was arguing with D (19 at the time), and I got called to mediate. It was amazing how much more mature D was than W.

It's not fair that you D has to be the adult in her relationship with her dad, but it sounds like you have some great kids.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019

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"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11093.0;topicseen

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2019, 05:24:25 AM »
I think the advice I recall was to treat them like an acquaintance because they most certainly are NOT your friend at the moment.....

So, polite, friendly, "light and breezy," but not someone you can trust with your car keys...
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2019, 12:10:26 PM »
PJ, It truly is amazing!

UM, I will have to work towards being acquaintance friendly.  I still leave when he comes over, and avoid him.  I am however keeping my lips zipped, when he calls I muster a polite tone and give short answers.  That is great progress from a few months ago. 
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 12:12:40 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2019, 08:51:04 PM »
More movement in the tunnel.

My h called tonight after his evening here with the kids.  Basically, he bore his heart and soul.  He had been drinking some.  For the first time he admitted what a broken person he is, that he does not believe he will ever be whole again.  He is seeing a psychiatrist and he feels like he will need one forever. 

He said it was really hard living here with the noise of the kids, and just as hard with the deafening silence alone.  He does not believe he can ever be happy again.

He says it was all too much for him(Afghanistan) and that he stuffed it down.  It is starting to come up now.  He still wants a divorce, he does not love me, he does love the kids.  He apparently is not at high risk of getting kicked out of the military as he was given another three years and is in a high profile position.  He believes he will make rank.

He talked about all of the bodies and body parts and dismembered people who were alive.  He still lives that every day.  His time at the trauma hospital in Afghanistan was not pleasant.  I will not go into it all, but his life was very much on the line regularly and he did not expect that.  His official title was CIO, but he was given another job that was horrible and 24/7.

He said in a very humble way that he knew I would be ok, because I am strong.  I did not let him off easy with that.  If I am ok, and if the kids are ok, it is no thanks to him.  His hurt, in turn hurt us.

He feels like that he really needs to be the provider.  It is important to him to make rank two more times.  He insinuated being open to a deal on our home(in TX). 

We got a tough blow today.  My D8 has mild Dyslexia.  She has so far been able to stay at grade level with reading and spelling, but we have worked hard for mediocre results.  This explains that.  So we will begin to get her the help she needs.

Over all a good conversation.  He has apologized for the things he said to me last week(which does not erase them from my memory, they still hurt).

For him to open up like that and bare his heart, but say he does not love me.  That is his truth.  It hurt.  He did say he is not seeing anyone(who knows).  He mentioned wanting to see the kids more if I was ok with it. 
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 08:56:57 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2019, 11:45:19 PM »
It sounds as if right now this is his truth, in the sense of how he feels right now. Or some of it probably. That he feels broken and doubts he will ever be well again for instance is how he feels....but it does not mean it will always be true if he does the work and gets the right help. Rationally as I am sure you know broken people are incapable of real love but they can do need. I suspect right now his love for the kids is much more about his needs than about the kind of love that focuses on their needs if that makes sense. Love means something different to him now maybe. It is the kind of self centredness that comes with significant mental health problems isn't it?

A rational person, or indeed someone following sensible professional advice, would of course say hmmm I am pretty messed up right now so I shouldn't be making big life altering decisions but instead trying to keep things stable while I focus on getting well....his feelings about you are more likely to be a symptom than a cause...after all, how will divorce make his life better right? But he can't see that now. And of course there is a pretty good chance that he is lying about things that he does to self medicate including ow...but you know that too. It is a sad thing to see someone taking a wrecking ball to themselves and the lives of those that care about them.

It is good that you were able to listen with compassion but without being a sap. Bc the fact that someone feels they no longer love us or that we are strong does not give them a pass on treating us in hurtful or disrespectful ways does it? Your h is obviously mentally ill right now...as my h was...but mentally ill people are still seen as legally capable and can still do a lot of damage. It may sound mean but is there a way you can take advantage of his current need to be a provider and lock down some of the financial agreements in a way that helps you and the kids? Bc they cycle and his current 'truth' may change just as quickly.

I've never got the impression that you are preventing him from seeing the kids....did he have a plan for how he wanted to see more of the kids? And how do your kids feel about that?

I'm sorry, FJ, bc it is a sad and hurtful thing to be part of these kind of conversations while knowing that there is so little one can do. I remember seeing my h at his worst, when he was evidently broken, and it was like looking at a suicide bomber tbh. He was determined to destroy everything and full of despair...he was completely unreachable by love or logic and it was heartbreaking to see. And easy to be infected by the same kind of despair. It is incredibly hard to detach and let go of someone we love when they are so obviously ill....it is probably a bit like dealing with an addict though, needing to find a way to know in your guts that you didn't cause it, can't cure it and can only cope by loving quietly from a big distance just as people learn to do with an addict in the family.

But if he gets good professional help he can get better. How he feels today is not necessarily how he will always be. But of course you have to steer you and your family forward regardless of the outcome with him...if it helps, some of that is a different kind of love, trying to reduce or offset the damage that he is so currently wedded to creating. But I hope you know, and can hold on to, the reality that neither you nor your marriage were responsible for breaking him...and that his twisted perspective may be his truth now but it does not make it THE truth if that makes sense. I remember the frustration of seeing my then h behave as if I was the problem and leaving me therefore the solution when it was so obvious that the problem lay elsewhere....even he said so...and so it was unlikely to be a good solution...but not being able to get him to even consider that at all. My h's biggest impulse at the time was to run away...that this would make him feel better somehow...and then I think he decided that a completely new life with ow was the answer. I have no idea if that turned out to be so but logic suggests that he would carry his demons, as he called them, with him bc after all they are his demons...neither me or ow created them so neither of us will fix them. There are lessons that broken people can only learn by doing it seems...and no one, including your h, can predict where that hard road will take him.

But it isn't about you, my friend. You did not break; he did.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 11:59:04 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #57 on: August 28, 2019, 09:05:44 AM »
Treasur, It does help to have my beliefs confirmed that this is all him.  I’m not sure I can do anything to take advantage of his want to be the provider right now.  Who knows which guy I’ll get during mediation months from now.

I did ask him if he would wait to divorce since he is struggling.  He said no.

TBH, outside of s5 the kids already complain about visits(s8 cries, s14 won’t go, s12 wants to play with his friends).  That said, I do not keep them from him.  If he wants to take them extra he is welcome.

The whole situation breaks my heart for all of us.  Also, I don’t get it.  How did he love me before deployment, but since getting back he told me he has not loved me.  At BD he told me ILYBNIL, but at some point after he said he has not loved me since his deployment.  I had nothing to do with his deployment.  It seems like he should love me more, I have had to be the strong one and hold our family together while he crumbles.

It’s a lot to take in.  He says he is mentally ill and does not love me.  I’m not sure how to feel.  During his deployment I was the devoted wife praying for him and raising the kids.  After I tried to be incredibly patient for a full year, he never let me in. 
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline One day at a time

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2019, 10:45:21 AM »
I think maybe something flips in them at some point. April 2017 my H was away for Easter due to work and he got an Easter egg ordered and delivered to me in work "to make up for his absence". A few months later after traveling a lot and spending very little time at home I no longer made him happy.. Why? What changed? At that time he admitted he changed and didn't know why, it had nothing to do with me. And then a few months later it was all my fault.

I think it's particularly hard for men to express their feelings and show vulnerability.. So they just stuff everything down and keep going in the hope that things will sort themselves without doing any of the required work. It is heart breaking for you because you are watching your H press the self destruct button and there's nothing you can do about it.

As Treasur said, this is your H's truth right now. He actually believes he doesn't love you and that is a very hard thing to accept. I still struggle to comprehend my H no longer loves me but all his actions right now show me that's the case. So I still cycle.. some days I feel ready to move on, other days I miss him terribly and other days my brain screams WTF?? So take what he said and process it. You will probably cycle too, it seems to come with the territory.

Big hugs, nothing easy about any of this
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2019, 10:54:03 AM »
I found this a pretty helpful summary https://www.storiedmind.com/self-esteem/why-depressed-men-leave-1/ FJ
Yup, makes no sense....but very common for depressed/MLC spouses I'm afraid.
They build a wall that keeps you out and then point at it as the reason they no longer feel connected. Complete mindf**k and a real catch 22...but nothing you can do until he sees that it is his wall.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 10:57:47 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2019, 11:05:47 AM »
Yeah the story changes and changes and changes..... they can't even seem to know they have changed their story.

Is this processing? Suggestion? Personalities?

W doesn't even seem to know that she wanted to leave, D me, etc.
Oh she knows but just glosses over it.... and still hasn't asked for her ring.... hasn't said she loves me..... it's all like a trial or something. They try one story, then another, then another... looking for the "right fit".

I think your H is looking for a reason (there isn't any), some way to justify better (there isn't), and attaches feeling or a lack of them in different ways to find one that "feels better" (there isn't).
So much confusion. I can tell you this: They know. They know how they SHOULD feel. They know what they SHOULD do. They choose not to. What I mean by that is: They can't turn their feelings on... but they can power thru and "fake it". They should do this. They choose not to.
The bad feelings are so strong, but we are human and can override our feelings with our mind. They choose not to. They choose instinct and it's the wrong choice.
That's my take anyway. I've asked W about this, and she confirms it. She can't explain it but it's true.

Hang in there FJ, I believe in you (and you too 1Day).

-SS 

W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2019, 12:10:22 PM »
Thanks guys!

This is all just so very painful.  I was just thinking about how in the early days, when I cried all the time and begged him to come home, he told me I was pathetic and weak.

Now, he says I am strong enough to handle it.  So I guess my actions don’t change the outcome.  He wants to leave and divorce me.  He does not want to parent full time and he will come up with a justification no matter what.

He wants me to understand and some how get on board.  Not to sound callous, but I married a very weak man.  No matter what he has been through, he should not have abandoned us.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2019, 03:29:28 PM »
Dear Finding Joy,
Your husband's conversation was heartbreaking--although I am finding so many stories on this forum heartbreaking lately. True, he is weak and he should not have abandoned you, but none of us know the horrors of war.  My dad was a WWII veteran and they never spoke in those days. Now, there is more help, but they need to ask for it.   And, your H was deployed so there was nothing you could do to even notice.

« Last post by Treasur on Today at 10:54:03 AM »
Quote
I found this a pretty helpful summary https://www.storiedmind.com/self-esteem/why-depressed-men-leave-1/ FJ
Yup, makes no sense....but very common for depressed/MLC spouses I'm afraid.
They build a wall that keeps you out and then point at it as the reason they no longer feel connected. Complete mindf**k and a real catch 22...but nothing you can do until he sees that it is his wall.

I have seen the wall of which Treasur speaks.  It is real.  I just did not recognize it for depression until it was much too late. 
Hugs.
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2019, 03:59:54 PM »
Maleficent,

Yes, I do find that a wall exists between my spouse and I since his deployment.  I do agree that I have not gone through what he has and therefore cannot understand.  I am sad to see him in such pain and yet do still hold him accountable for his choices.  Hopefully in time they will get better.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2019, 05:20:44 PM »
Quote
he will come up with a justification no matter what.
Yeah. Sad but true. I think there was a thread here a while back about justifications. IIRC, someone's H told her he had to leave because the dog was too fat. My W asked me, in all seriousness, why I wasn't like her gay high school buddy who used to take her shoplifting.

He's going to do what he's going to do. Don't let yourself walk on eggshells or feel guilty because he blames you for not being perfect.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019

Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11093.0;topicseen

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2019, 06:51:39 PM »
PJ, too true.  I do remember my husband mentioning that the kids bathroom wasn’t clean enough.  Uhm, they clean it, not me;)

One thing he did say that is true.  That for the first two years pre BD he was trying to protect me from who he had become.  I remember thinking he could not be that horrible that I needed protection....
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2019, 05:02:51 AM »
My h just called at 6 am.  He wanted to make sure we have a hurricane plan in case we need it.  The kids and I aren’t typically up until 7am to get ready for school.  I have not gotten up before 7am in many years and will probably have a rude awakening when I start working next year;)

So admittedly when I saw a call that early I thought he was in the hospital or something and asked if he was ok.  He will be out of town this weekend, and at Thanksgiving.  It really has me thinking he is still with ow2.  I don’t understand why he lies about it.  Maybe he thinks I will use it against him in the D.  He was polite and lingered on the phone.

I read last night that male MLC last 3-10 years and female 2-5.  No wonder few make it.  There is a constant back and forth on my feelings.  My h is ill, I should wait on him.  The other part of me says, he is ill, but he has chosen this.  He has rejected me, he has turned his back on all of the issues created by his choices.  He proclaims loudly that he does not love me.  He is cheating and I do think I would have an easier time forgiving him if it were just sex, but I know he is in a relationship.  He is putting her first.  I really am glad he won’t tell me about OW.  I don’t really want to know.

The less I know, the easier it is to forgive.  If we ever get to the phase where the kids have to meet her, or it becomes public, that will be so much harder.

How do you love someone unconditionally that has rejected you.  That has turned from his vows.  That has left you with all of the responsibility and adulting.  Admittedly sometimes I wonder if a clean slate with an eventual new husband would be the better option.  On the other hand, it makes no sense that he does not have any feelings at all for me.  I truly do believe he loves me.

But, I’m not sure that is enough.  I am after-all human and need affection, I need someone not crazy on my team, I need love, attention, friendship.  I read some of these stories where they come home and are still so very selfish, for such a long time.  I question the idea of putting up with this for years on end.  I wonder if I am doing better by the kids to move on after the divorce and I am healed.

I asked h if he would take s5 to the father son camping trip with the church.  He said he does not like outdoor activities.  For many years my h did not realize that he hates nature and the outdoors.  He would buy equipment, hunting supplies(my family hunts and fishes), but he would never go.  Even sitting on a patio at a restaurant has bugs, or is hot, or cold, or humid.

So I married a man who thought he enjoyed the outdoors, but never wanted to go anywhere outdoors with me.  When we were young he went and so I never realized until later, he is content at home.  He prefers organized sports, playing softball and coaching the kids teams.  I can respect that, but nature breaths life into my soul.  I need it, and for so many years, anything I did in nature was alone, or with friends, or the kids, not with my h.

This is the sort of thing that makes me wonder if I should move forward and not look back.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 05:30:27 AM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2019, 07:33:11 AM »
You are a very smart woman FJ..... not digging. The less we know, yes.... that's much better.

Yup the old "1 -2 " question: 1. They are sick. Stand and be restored (hopefully). 2. They chose it. I'm outta here.
The fact is, we love them. Even after whatever they do... we love them. We chose them, they chose us and then did/do what they do.

Another question is (and this one is the dangerous one): Can we do better? I think the answer is yes and no.
Can we do better..... Yes: In some ways. We can find someone who will love us, be good to us, treat us the way we should. I think that is true and at times is very appealing. I could run off get a younger model who is a nymphomaniac, and treats me good. That I have no doubt since I know what I want and could find it.

Can we do better..... No: We chose our spouse. We gave them our heart. We know what love we truly want, and it's them. If we split.....What heart we get back, or try to nurse back to health is not the one we had before marrying our spouse. There is no going back to what was. A heart with a big scar to give someone else is not the same thing. A heart scar should be appreciated and loved by the one who made it. This never happens with someone else, it wasn't a wound they created. They can love you, and your scar, but it's not theirs..... they just get to love what's around the scar not what's in it. That's not a complete heart. Granted, sometimes that's the only option...... but there's only one person who can have your whole heart..... entirely.... that's your spouse. Yeah, I'm a romantic.... but they say you never love the same way twice, I think that's true. I only want to love one way and one person. Totally, honestly and loyally. May not be possible...... but I can hope (for all of us).

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #68 on: August 30, 2019, 08:09:44 AM »
SS-“nymphomaniac”  Thanks for the morning 😂 laugh!  I do wonder if my heart will ever be the same either way.  I certainly will never look at my h the same way, and my innocence is gone.  That feeling that I am completely safe and secure in my husband’s love is gone and I’m unsure that, that innocence can be restored in any relationship.

Though I agree, more so if it works out with my h.  If they come home and live out a life of commitment and love after this, I can see the healing taking place in a much less jagged way than if you move on without them.

Also, I see what you mean about the wound being a shared experience and much better understood by our spouses.  I have to move forward from where I am.  I have to find a way to move on without moving on.  This is so hard.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 08:27:34 AM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #69 on: August 30, 2019, 09:42:47 AM »
my innocence is gone


Isn't that the worst? I really hate that..... but it's a blessing I guess.

You'll always be self-reliant after this. Always be mature. Never be co-dependent again (and I LOVED being co-dependent).
Now you will know both sides of the coin whereas most people will only know one.
Better, stronger, smarter....... you'll be grown up, just like all of us will.

From woman, to woe-man to Woah-Man (I mean that in a really good way).

H will rue the day, either way.

-SS 
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline Schratz66

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2019, 09:46:52 AM »
How do you love some unconditionally after they rejected you ?
I don't know how, but I do. It's part of the unconditional. I do not love him just because he loved me back.

Would you be better off moving on ? Only you know, but if you have to use logic and all the reasons why you should move on, my guess is you are not ready to move on. I think when you are ready to move on you just do it. No pros and contras, no debating with yourself - you just do it.

Some days I wish I was ready to move on, but there really is only one person in this world that I want in my life as a partner and that is him. Will that always be the case ? I don't know, but I know right now he still has all of my heart.
Me 52
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2019, 11:14:27 AM »
Schratz-That is sweet!  I do not feel the same way, but I don’t really mean move onto another relationship, so much as close the door on this one.  I hate being in limbo.  But, I am doing my best to not close that door.

For me it is a daily up and down fight to try to chose love.  It is so very hard to do sometimes.  When I ask myself how do I love him unconditionally even though he rejects me, it is me asking myself how to accomplish this goal.  How do I keep choosing love in the face of such ugliness.  It does not come easily for me as my husband has been such a vile, mean man for the last 10 months.  He is getting way better, but I cannot forget all of the ugly things he has done and said.  They are written on my heart.  They are inscribed in my brain. 

They say when your old spouse starts to rear their head it is easier to chose them, rather than this stranger.  I have long since felt that my husband died in Afghanistan and the man I got back does not want me, our family, our life, our faith.  It has been three years and he is just now opening up at all.  The year prior he was deployed.  So, for me he has been gone for four years, I just kept thinking he would get better, but instead he got way worse with BD. 

I guess what I mean is, I keep choosing to love someone, who keeps choosing to hurt me.  I’m not sure I will always be willing to make that choice.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline One day at a time

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2019, 01:08:58 AM »
Quote
The less I know, the easier it is to forgive.  If we ever get to the phase where the kids have to meet her, or it becomes public, that will be so much harder.
I agree with this completely. However when I knew very little, I was in limbo which I didn't like either. Time was going by and while I became a lot more independent and the raw emotions were gone, I felt my life was standing still. When OW went public a few months ago, it caused a lot of pain and I'm not sure I would ever be able to forgive but it opened my eyes to the reality of my situation and the fact that it might not get any better so it's up to me to decide what to do with the rest of my life.

If you are choosing love is because you still want to choose love. It might get to a point where you don't and that's OK. I used to think it was very noble to sit tight during my H's crisis and hope for reconciliation. But how we feel changes over time
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2019, 01:26:59 AM »
I too felt like my former h died....he was that unrecognisable and that unreachable. Which left me pretty confused about who or what I loved and why. It becomes a very private quiet kind of love perhaps.

What I found too, FJ, which One Day alludes to, is that the love becomes different. Your relationship with him has conditions. Some of your love for who he has been and is in your life may have conditions too. That is healthy and about loving yourself just as much. But with time, like a kind of winnowing, you will probably find the bit of love that is unconditional for him as a person regardless of everything that happens...if it is there, it will be uncovered with time. But you don't have to DO anything with it necessarily if that makes sense. At first actually I think we use the love to NOT do things that might hurt someone who is hurting us...so it serves a purpose probably. In a strange way, the love is almost not about him if that makes sense. You can feel what you feel without any kind of waiting for anything at all.....time and detachment will help you see what kind of love is left after the storm. We all might reach different conclusions about it. Jmo.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 01:29:03 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline beyondblessed

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2019, 04:29:03 AM »
FJ...first, I'm sorry that your H decided to come clean while intoxicated...that already makes what he said highly unreliable.  Secondly, his head is a hot mess of emotions he doesn't know how to control, hence the coping mechanisms of addiction.   My point,  these people can't even get a grip on the basics of sorting their thoughts, and where the mind goes, everything else follows.  That's why none of this makes sense to those of us watching these train wrecks crash and burn.  We have our full mental capabilities and the reasoning to with that.  The MLC'ers brain is a pinball machine on steroids lol

Lastly,  for as much as I detest the person my xh has chosen to be at this stage of his life, the person he was when I met him was at least a little stronger and filled with some enthusiasm to accomplish goals with a purpose.  He was filled with a potential that ultimately he's decided to now ignore.  The people they "could" have become are not always the people they choose to become.  Life happens and gets hard, some have the mental strength and inner fortitude to power through and let the hard times make them better, stronger people,  and the others...well, that's why we are all here, now isn't it?

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #75 on: August 31, 2019, 08:32:42 AM »
One Day-  That makes perfect since!  When she went public it was incredibly painful(and probably still is), but it is allowing you to move forward.  The simple explanation for me trying to hold on is my kids and my faith.  My husband’s mom shattered their family with divorce, now he is repeating the MLC and the divorce.  I do not want my kids coming from a broken home or repeating this.  Of course I am only 1 person in the marriage, I cannot stop him from doing this to us/them.  So I am doing my best to pray, not close the door, and not become bitter.

Thunder, I remember reading that you also felt your old h had died and I related.  It is as if this whole time I have been grieving my husband, his death in Afghanistan, but here he is.  His body is here, but he is not.  I love my husband, but this man in his body is much more difficult to love.

This whole situation just forces growth and introspection.  For the sake of my family, I am having to find away to have empathy, compassion and grace on someone who has hurt me more than anyone else on earth.  He did it with a smirk.  He did it almost happy to see my pain.  It is no easy task for me to try to forgive and chose love. 

BB, I’m unsure if he was intoxicated so much as had a glass of wine.  I would have never known he had been drinking as his words were not slurred, and his actions were normal.  I am unsure how much he drinks.  It’s so weird because before his deployment neither of us drank our entire marriage.  I did not because of his beliefs and my respect for him.  Now I will have a glass of wine 1 time a week typically, but I think he may hide his drinking.  I think he likely drinks regularly.  Yes!  Life is hard and it’s so true, some break and here we all are!
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #76 on: August 31, 2019, 09:38:32 AM »
D14 talked me into doing Trim Healthy Mama with her.  I think she wanted me on board so that everything I cook is something she can eat.  I tend to prefer to eat healthy overall and splurge a bit on the weekend, but I have a feeling she is going to be watching every move I make, as she never cheats on her regimen.  Anyways, I figured it would be something to bring us closer together.

We baked this morning.  I typically like to make a quiche, maybe some healthy muffins, and 1 other specialty item on the weekend to help carry us through the week.  We also got bedrooms straightened and plan to do something active today as a family.  I am wanting to go kayaking, but we may do the dog beach instead. 

My h has mostly ignored me since opening up the other evening.  I think he is with ow this weekend.  I have never really wondered what she is like, or what they do together.  I think mostly because I once was in contact with ow1.  She was so immature, rude and flat out vile.   There is nothing left to know.  Who he is choosing to be and who he is choosing to spend his company with is not what I want in my life.  I do not envy it, I am not jealous.  I would never want to be with a married man and I could never be jealous of that kind of relationship.  It is wrought with shame, guilt and lust.  Also, this woman is not the one who broke up our marriage, really the ow1 was not either(though I hold a grudge against her).  He blocked me from his life years ago, and so another woman was sure to eventually show up.

He has said he did not want me to see who he is now, he has said, he wanted to protect me from who he has become.  Who knows all of his reasons for not letting me in after the deployment.  I think in his mind I could never understand, only his friends who were their understood.  They became his new family, his new inner circle.  The kids and I were no longer truly allowed in his world.

So his heart needs to heal and these other woman are just symptoms of his heart issue.  I dwell on all of this in a way, I do it on purpose.  I have had to heal before and I know it is best to feel the hurt completely, to walk through the stages without holding back.  When my heart is healed, I do not want sharp shards still embedded, I want to be completely healed...though the scar will be deep. 

I do not regret focusing on this pain, or reminiscing about my h.  I know that that is a part of moving forward(when I am ready). 
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #77 on: September 01, 2019, 06:47:09 PM »
I forgot to mention a part of mine and h’s conversation that I thought was very odd(but not MLC odd), from the other day.  My husband was about as normal of a guy as you could get.  He liked family time, he was a Christian, sex, sports, volunteering and food.  That is pretty much all he needed in life.  Maybe a few friends.

So, he has never said anything super weird like he did the other night.  He said it’s like he lives in another dimension.  Like he is in another world.  I thought that went along with what some of these MLCers say about feeling like a real life fantasy or movie. 

That conversation helped me.  Not to really understand because I never will, but to further let go, have some compassion and forgiveness and to recognize once and for all he is not fully in his right mind.

This whole time he has said he is happy now that he is not with me, but the other night he admitted that he is miserable, not just miserable, but he believes he will never get better.   The conversation makes me feel like all of my suspicions are confirmed.  He has always acted like there is nothing wrong with him and has told me, “whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better, I am happy, I just don’t want you”.  The man who is ‘happy’, is seeing a psychologist and lives in “many dimensions”. 

I’m not sure I take comfort in this.  For now my h, my children’s father, our provider, my best friend and teammate is not mentally of sound mind.  He could do anything.  I’m unsure where the journey will go, but I am trying to go one day at a time.  I don’t like feeling so vulnerable and dependent on someone in his mental state, and so I let go some more.  I let go of some of the blame(some), I let go of some of my attachment.

Things happen each day that remind me he is gone, but that deep despair is beginning to go away.  I am so far from healing, but I also see how far I’ve come.  There is laughter here.  There are also tears.  Sometimes the grey clouds lift a bit and I am reminded that life will go on. 

Today after church we stopped off for some unwich’s(lettuce wraps that we all love) and my kids would not stop bickering.  I asked them to stay in the car while I got the sandwiches, when I got back it was way worse.  I got out of the car for a few minutes and realized how hard this can sometimes be without my h.  Sometimes just the male presence is enough to stop a lot of it.  But his presence is gone and some moments are difficult.  Then again, the rest of the day was great and he is missing it.  Missing out on his kids childhood.  On the hard moments and the great moments.  I am here, and him being gone makes my purpose all that much more important.  I have to do my best to raise this crew.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 06:50:11 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #78 on: September 03, 2019, 11:10:43 AM »
Today has been a crazy emotional day.  I dropped the kids at school, made myself breakfast and an iced coffee, all ready to get some things done.

My h called, he was so friendly and acted like we are best friends.  He is on vacation still(I believe he is with OW at her home).  As soon as he said he was still out of town I just couldn’t.  I hung up on him and texted him a bunch of emotional texts.

I have been uncontrollably crying all morning.  I have not felt like this in a bit.  Several of you have talked about when they circle back towards you it hurts way more.  The thing is, I did not get my hopes up about anything, I just had compassion on his situation after getting an in site into what he is walking through.  Before in all honesty, I tried to have compassion, but it only goes so far with a Monster who treats you badly.  So my compassion was hard to find.

I don’t know how some of y’all do it.  In order to protect my heart and not make irrational decisions, I cannot get on his roller coaster, but we are supposed to listen. 

I do much better in my role as lbs if I keep a firm wall up, with hope somewhere far from reach.  This is a low I have not felt in some time, and it hurts too much.

Now I remember why I built that wall tall and thick around my heart when it comes to him.  What kind of a person puts their loved ones through this h*ll.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online xyzcf

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #79 on: September 03, 2019, 11:26:24 AM »
So very sorry finding joy.

Quote
What kind of a person puts their loved ones through this h*ll.

Not a "normal" person for sure.

How do we ever "accept" something that we never wanted?

I have a visual of a gate which is boarded shut, chains across and no key or door handle..he is supposed to stay behind this gate...I try hard to keep him behind it but he manages to find ways to "escape"...alwyas something else that upsets my calm and equilibrium.

I have learned to live with these outburst but I must say I do not like it one bit.

He always seems to get what he wants, and I always seem to be comprimising what I want.

I hope the sadness passes soon....it will, it always does.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #80 on: September 03, 2019, 11:33:55 AM »
Oh FJ,

I'm so sorry....... sorry for the rotten day, sorry for H being the way he is.

Praying for you today, right now.

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #81 on: September 03, 2019, 12:24:01 PM »
I'm sorry too FJ
It's ok to let go of what you are 'supposed' to do at least with regard to your h, truly it is.
You are better to focus on whatever it is that makes life feel a little easier or less crazy or calmer for you and the kids.
We all know how insane this is, like walking through quicksand it is hard to find your footing. And it is insane....trying to make pointless chitchat while your bonkers h is (probably) on vacation with an ow.
But you will find your stride, FJ, you will. You are already doing so well for so early into a long game.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2019, 02:28:49 PM »
XYZ-It sure is difficult to accept.  I cannot imagine dealing with this year in and year out, but I suppose God gives us enough grace for each day.

SS, Thank You.  I guess this whole situation let’s us see who we really are.  Make or break type of stuff.

Treasur- I really wish I had a better game face for pointless chitchat.  I have never been good at it and cannot seem to just keep things shallow.  One moment at a time.  Hearing his voice is a trigger sometimes, I get upset just hearing it.  For some reason it’s not easier with him being nice.  I think because I still have to keep my guard up, he still has OW, and wants a D.  He just wants me to be more understanding of his choices.  It disgusts me, and I can’t hide it well.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #83 on: September 04, 2019, 02:16:56 AM »
He just wants me to be more understanding of his choices.

But..... but... but....

He's "happy" now with his Schmoopie so you should be happy for him and cheer him on in his new world full of pink cotton-candy clouds, rainbows, puppy dogs and unicorns running around farting clouds of glitter..... or didn't you get that message?

You horrid horrible mean LBS!  20 lashes with a wet noodle for you...

All seriousness aside, that is SO script.... They all seem to be in desperate search for their next Rah Rah enabler squad and think we should be leading the charge... when we are not, they just can't comprehend why....


Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

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Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #84 on: September 04, 2019, 04:25:35 AM »
As UM says, very script.
It's as if some bit of them wants our approval or permission.
I remember my xh getting obsessed - really like a hungry dog with a bone - that I would write to his L to say it was ok with me if he applied for the absolute. He didn't need my permission legally, but he went on and on and about it. To the point when I had to say just talk to my L bc he got very weird and quite aggressive. (I said repeatedly he didn't need my legal permission and should do as he saw fit). But I remember feeling at the time that it was as if he wanted my permission in some way. Very weird.

Well, FJ, I'm not a believer in the 'fake nice' thing bc I think it damages some LBS to do it and 'nice' does not win them back. If you don't feel comfortable doing chit chat, it's ok not to do it...what's he gonna do, leave you?!...you can be polite but not chatty like you would be with a stranger at church say or someone you got talking to in a store.

And it's not your job to be understanding anymore of his choices bc there is no We. His choice.
You can accept them. You can respect his right to make them bc he is an adult with free will even if you disagree. You can choose to listen if he wants to explain them. You can recognise that he is the father of your children and respect that.

But you don't have to approve, agree, be understanding or support anything he says or does or wants. (Unless that is honestly how you feel). Your h fired you from being his helpmeet and best friend and wife....so he will need to do a whole bunch of things for himself now or find others to do it. Which will probably come as a bit of a surprise to him but darn it, those grown up consequence things do come along don't they?

I think for most LBS it takes a while to retrain our marital team brain out of doing things that we used to do as part of a We. Makes sense that it should after years. But it is healthy to try and to not make ourselves uncomfortable in order to make them feel more comfortable now...bc it is no longer a reciprocal thing is it?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 04:28:27 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #85 on: September 04, 2019, 08:00:10 AM »
UM-Good to know it is script.  As if he wants to do whatever he wants, but wants us(me and the kids) to support him even though it is harming us.  You keep us all laughing!

Treasure-I think that is what I need to aim for, polite, but distant.  Having idle chit chat with him triggers me.  It’s as if in every word he is saying, we are through, you mean nothing to me, we are going through a divorce, but I care so little I can laugh and carry on. 

All I can give him is kindness from a distance, it is all I have to give and it takes everything for me to do that.  Because it means keeping my mouth shut.  It means hiding my feelings. 

What it does not mean is pretending.  I feel like for me the idle chit chat is pretending I am ok with all of this, but the distant kindness is me trying to be gracious.

Journaling-I have definitely noticed a correlation with me getting really emotional about my h and marriage at certain times of the month....

It has helped me to recognize I am just hormonal, it is not in fact the end of the world.  Even though sometimes it feels like it.  I am trying to take things one day at a time because I am overwhelmed.

My son with profound Dyslexia is doing well at his individualized school.  For group writing he has one day a week where I pay to have a teacher work one on one with him.  He is also thriving in his NILD program.  This is year one, if he takes it three years, he should be prepared for any career he chooses(in other words when he gets to adulthood, he should be able to go to college or a technical trade, his dyslexia will not prevent it).  He will always have to work a bit differently and harder in school. 

My s5 and d14 seem to just naturally learn as I did.  It comes easy.  My d8 is struggling to get her footing with reading and spelling.  I have her doing a dyslexia program at home on the weekend (just started) that should help over the next year.  If needed I have another program that can follow.

We are three weeks in and she has failed her first two spelling tests and made a D last week in reading.  We work on it every night.  This year will be about getting her officially diagnosed with Dyslexia(hers is mild) and getting her the help she needs at home and at school.  She made A’s and B’s last year in everything, but we did work hard at home.  Her school is on a much harder grading scale than public school. 

This alone makes me so upset with my h.  That he has left me to deal with all of this alone.  I think for many years to come I will struggle with this, he not only made vows to me, but with each child we had he intrenched himself into our marriage and raising our children together. 

I don’t have it in me to leave here now(Florida), but by staying the chance that we will stay forever goes up with each day.  Mostly because of the schools, our church, and the affordability.  Who knows, maybe we will become Floridians.  Only time will tell.

My d14 seems to be thriving.  She is on the youth group leadership team, in charge of social media.  She has friends at church now.  She is not playing at school either.  Honors everything and straight 100’s.

My d12 has joined the media team at church and seems to really enjoy it.  After a year he will be allowed to help in the main service.  So, we are growing a few roots here.  Or they are.  I am inch by inch, but the idea of connecting with new people has been difficult.  I did join the church.  I’m just not quite ready.  I think when my need to be involved overcomes my hurt, it will happen.

I am going to a divorce care class at my church.  When it is over I will likely do a grief class. 
I do recognize fully why I am not ready to connect with new people.  I have not accepted my situation fully as I once thought.  Until I accept it, meeting new people will be hard for me.  When they ask about my family, my husband, my marriage, right now I would be very triggered.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline DCD

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #86 on: September 04, 2019, 08:10:47 AM »
Hi Finding Joy,

I think you are doing amazingly well considering everything you have to deal with.  You have a very high level of self awareness and proactiveness (is that a word...? im going with it!) that will get you everywhere you want to go! So much on your plate right now but despite what it feels like at times (which you have also managed to dissect and work through), you are thriving!! Like you say, one day at a time.  Take good care :)
some days are yellow
some days are blue
on different days, i'm different too
you'd be surprised how many ways
i change on different-colored days.
 - dr. seuss

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #87 on: September 04, 2019, 09:49:41 AM »
^^^What DCD said ^^^
Quote
I cannot imagine dealing with this year in and year out, but I suppose God gives us enough grace for each day.
No kidding. In my case, I had a stay-home wallower for three years. When I look back on those three years I wonder how the heck did I survive. One day at a time.

You will meet new people eventually. I think Divorce Care is 13 weeks? After that, would you be able to keep that same night a week and do something else for yourself? A meetup.com group or something? I've been making new friends at an "Introverts who like to socialize" meetup. Including meeting the lovely "M".

You're doing amazing. Especially raising your kids. It's completely unfair that you have to do it alone, but you're doing it. So don't expect perfection from yourself.

You're a rock star, FJ!
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019

Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11093.0;topicseen

Offline Father5

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #88 on: September 04, 2019, 12:49:21 PM »
Hi FJ,

   You sound so strong keep up the good work. I suffer from Dyslexia also, school was horrible for me. But I did get through it and have a pretty happy life. I will attend a divorce group at my church next Tuesday for the first time. I look forward to hearing how yours went.

  I also get your anger though my wife never sees it. I am not able to do the pretending thing very well, I wear my heart on my sleeve. I do try and act gracious and kind and reading your post has put good thoughts in my head about doing so. Usually I feel like I am getting walked on or something.

 My wife is still a parent thank goodness. She was talking about walking away in the beginning but she has seemed to turn that around. Anyway good luck and God Bless you. Your grace touches us all !
Together 12 yrs Married 5
5 kids 3- Step (21) (20) (18) Two together ( 8 ) (9)
BD1 March 2018 - I wish I could give you more of what you need
BD2 Aug 2018 - I want a divorce sent by text ILWYBNILWY

O/M Discovered Nov-18

Offline One day at a time

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #89 on: September 04, 2019, 02:32:04 PM »
FJ.. I also get more upset at certain times of the month... I realized that about a year ago and even though the emotions are hard to get through, I know where they are coming from and I know it'll be over in a few days  :)

It's very hard when they are nice and want to chit chat.. Very easy to get sucked in but what comes after is not pretty.. Because the chit chat means nothing.. They are still off looking for their new happy and no matter how much we listen, they are still gone. My H stayed home for 7 weeks after he ended our marriage, it would have been longer if I hadn't asked him to move. He wanted to stay, have dinner with me, watch TV together, etc etc but have his EA right in front of my nose.. eeh, no.  My sanity was more important so out he went..

Just take once day at the time when needed. I still feel like that from time to time.. Hugs!
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #90 on: September 04, 2019, 09:08:49 PM »
Hi DCD, I appreciate that!  I am thankful I am studying at home this year and have time during the day to work though all of this while doing chores and such!

PJ, I appreciate the encouragement!  Yes, our divorce group ends in November.  I actually could get out on Tuesdays as well when h comes to see the kids, or during the school day, I could chose to go to the gym here on base(and do group classes to meet people).  I have plenty of opportunities to make friends.  It has been that I have not wanted to.  I do think I need to do it, and in time I will begin to allow people in.  I’m not quite ready.  Right now I seem to only want to be around people who get it already.  I guess broken attracts broken..

Father, I’m so glad to hear that even though you struggled in school, you have a happy life.  I have been concerned for s12 for many years.  I want him to thrive and have every opportunity.  I am less concerned for d8.  She will be fine with a bit of work.  It sure is hard to be kind and distant after what they put us through, I feel ya!!  My h helps some, but very little.

One day- It truly does help to recognize I will be ok in a couple of days.  I mean yesterday I was on the floor crying(the kids were at school).  Thankfully, later in the day I realized why I was so emotional.  I prefer chit chat over monster, but at least with monster there is no false hope.  In fact, you don’t want them either.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #91 on: September 04, 2019, 09:51:26 PM »
My husband says he does not have another woman and that he is visiting a husband and wife in VA.  I guess I should stop assuming, he could be in between, I really don’t know.  He is stuck there now(he says due to the hurricane).  So he is going to meet us at church on Sunday and see the kids after for a few hours.

My divorce class is going well.  I go to an amazing church.  It is hands down my favorite church ever!  It is so well balanced and has groups for all walks of life.  Being a military wife I have been to many.  The class has about 15 people and 7 volunteers.  During small group sessions, I told the overview of my story.  It was a new level of acceptance speaking it to a group of strangers.  It is common for people to repeat the class.  For some reason no one else wanted to share tonight and they kept revolving the discussion around me.  I feel a bit more free tonight.  Like I am slowly moving forward.  Sharing was good. 

There is a woman in the class with a very similar story to mine.  She has been going through it a year longer.  I felt understood. 

Maybe soon I can become brave enough to go to the single parenting class on Sunday mornings.  I have tried to walk through the doors a few times and could not bring myself to that level of acceptance.  There is shame in all of this for me. Not shame that anyone else puts on me, but shame I put on myself.  My marriage was the crown jewel of my life at one time.  Perhaps even placed too high.

Funny, the couple who led the class has been through the divorce class, single parent class and now they do the blended family class(separate journeys of course).  Our church is large.  They even have singles classes by age range, if I am ever ready for that.  They take trips and such.  I could not be at a better place for what I am walking through.

I would love to volunteer in a class like this in a few years.  I think only married couples lead it. 

Anyways, I recommend the program.  I am on week 3.  Mine is called Divorce Recovery.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 09:53:10 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #92 on: September 08, 2019, 12:59:39 PM »
This has been a week of acceptance, and it is a good thing.  I am beginning to accept that my h is divorcing me, that I will be and already am a single mom.  That my h is at present time choosing all of this.  He is hurting, he is in a fog, but he is choosing this.  He is a shell of who he was, he is hardhearted and selfish.

I say these things, because I am finally accepting my reality.  I continue to forgive, and am rarely angry.  I also have very little expectations.  In a couple of years he could come out of this, or he could die like this(his Mom is on her death bed and never stopped living for herself).

It has been a little over a year since he started treating me horribly and he started getting involved with OW1.  I knew in my heart, but none of it was confirmed until bd mid October.

I say that to say.  I love my h, I hope someday he becomes a better person.  I pray for him daily.  That said, he is becoming much less relevant in my life.  Clinging to him is like clinging to a burning coal.  I can’t do it without getting burned.

My d14 and I got some new hair products, straighteners and curling wands.  So I’m getting trendy now with my beach waves.  It has been fun becoming more girly this last many months.  I love to go natural and get outdoors, but I also love to get dressed up and be feminine. 

I went to the single parenting group this morning.  Today is the first day in all of these months I had accepted my situation enough to walk in.  They were all very polite.  It’s amazing how open everyone is.  The class was small because apparently everyone is at the singles retreat.

I told a few people the quick version of my story and they told me theirs.  They all said it is perfectly fine that I am still married(divorcing) and not looking to date.  That I should come to all of the stuff.  It is a support group, I do not have to be looking to date to in fact be a single parent in need of support.

So, they have quite a few get togethers.  Apparently this is a tight knit group.  I looked at the calendar and in the last few weeks they have gone tubing, to a baseball game, to our church’s chef night and now they are all at a retreat.  They almost always include the kids.  This Friday night is Volleyball and food at the church.  I’m unsure I will go.  I may inch in a bit.  When I finish my Wednesday divorce class, apparently there is a Wednesday night single Mom class.  I am excited about that. 

The men were more friendly than I am used to, but of course they are, they are single and looking.  I am married and not looking, but I am living a single life.  So, I have decided to mingle in groups, but only become close friends with the women.  I will not even accept a friendly coffee date.  After the divorce, who knows when I will be ready to have male friends.  But I have a long ways to go with my healing before dating.  I do still wear my wedding ring.

A male did follow me out of the class and chat for 10 minutes or so, while walking to pick up kids.  My actions preceding this did not encourage him.  Before class he introduced himself, and I said hi and my name, that’s it.  Anyways, he encouraged me to get involved with the group and I told him I was still married and hoping to reconcile.  So, I was unsure how involved I would be with the singles events.  He said he is also still in the process of a d.  He said I could hang more with the women, and that this is a group that is really there for one another.  He seemed genuine and I have no clue about his story.  He does have 6 kids.  I will admit he was handsome, but since I am married and not looking it does not matter. 

I could see this group helping me to GAL with my kids involved.  I only have my neighbor here as a friend and we are not really close.  I do have acquaintances.  I do talk to family and friends far away regularly.  This may be my big chance to move forward, get my eyes off my MLCer, make friends and have fun!  So, regardless of the awkwardness of being in a singles parenting group, but not dating, I need this! 





« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 01:19:54 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #93 on: September 08, 2019, 05:04:30 PM »
Hello,

I agree with you that you are not done with your h. Just use the classes on living a life for just yourself and your children. I don't know the process for divorce since you are in the military. Are you following Florida laws or the laws of the state you were married in?

Right now the plan should be living a life that makes you and your children independent and on your own. Then if the right person comes along, you can have a life with someone you want to have in your life-not need. That includes your h.

Keep going strong and know that you are doing very well.

(((Hugs))) and more (((Hugs)))

Ready

"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #94 on: September 08, 2019, 07:45:26 PM »
Ready-Technically he could file in TX if he wises up, but the current plan is to do mediation here in FL.  We can do either state.

As far as dating for need, that will not be my situation.  I do not see finances as a reason for me to remarry and in fact am pretty happy single.  Once I start working next year and if/when the D goes through, finances should not be much of an issue.  There not now either, we are provided for, but it is tight with two households on 1 income. 

I was instructed that since I have been a stay at home mom all of these years, it was best for me to work on my teacher certification, but not go back to work until the D is final.  So I am doing that this school year.


« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 08:04:21 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #95 on: September 08, 2019, 08:02:37 PM »
Sounds like the single parentlng group is a good thing for you. I'm part of a meetup.com group for "socializing introverts." It has really helped me move forward with new friends who don't know my past or my ex like my old friends. There's also a "Christian Singles" meetup that I'll joining soon. I'm not sure what meetup.com groups are active in your area, but I can tell you that it's been really good for me.

As usual, you seem to be going about everything the right way. Gold star for you! My only advice is to be sure not to get so bogged down constantly doing all the right things for everyone else that you don't allow yourself time and space to experience your own emotions. I think that happened to me and some of my emotions kind of tackled me from behind. As a single Mom, I could see it being so much more of a challenge to allow time for yourself.

You're doing great. You're going to come out of this a stronger, kinder, more empathetic person.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019

Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11093.0;topicseen

Offline Father5

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #96 on: September 08, 2019, 08:07:09 PM »
Hi Joy,

I am heading to my first divorce group at the church on Tuesday. Thanks for giving me heads up. I am not ready to date either as I am married still. Bit also at a point where she is no longer in my life what so ever. We don't talk or communicate except about the kids.
Together 12 yrs Married 5
5 kids 3- Step (21) (20) (18) Two together ( 8 ) (9)
BD1 March 2018 - I wish I could give you more of what you need
BD2 Aug 2018 - I want a divorce sent by text ILWYBNILWY

O/M Discovered Nov-18

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #97 on: September 08, 2019, 08:33:17 PM »
Hi PJ!  I love the idea of that introvert group!  So fun!  I think this experience definitely makes us kinder, stronger and more emphatic!  No doubt! 

I have stuck with the groups at church because my kids are already there anyways.  So, it is not out of my way, my kids are taken care of and all is well!  I think my emotions cycle.  One week I have every feeling known to man about all of this, and the next week(this week), I feel nothing.  Just a bit numb towards it all.  Not to worry, If I have done anything right I have allowed myself to fully live in my emotions when needed.  I’m just all cried out at the moment.  Also, I am going more by the book, but honestly it is because I do not trust myself right now.  I could easily end up in a relationship way too soon and I want to give my h a chance to do right by us before allowing anyone else’s friendship to cloud my judgement. 

Good for you on the singles group!!  You have been at this for three years now, you deserve happiness!!

Father-I understand what you mean, my h and I only talk about finances, the kids, and logistics.  He is not interested in anything else.  It makes it hard when you are technically married, but not getting any needs met.  I hope you like your divorce class!  Mine has helped me move forward another few inches!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 09:00:50 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #98 on: September 08, 2019, 08:50:16 PM »
Wow FJ, you've been busy!!!

I think it's awesome.

Very strong woman, I'm sure stronger than ever before. Isn't it amazing? Such a blessing in disguise, but one we didn't choose or want.

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #99 on: September 09, 2019, 05:35:18 AM »
SS, Thank You for your kind words.  Someday I hope I can see it as a blessing as well!
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 07:08:31 AM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #100 on: September 09, 2019, 07:39:41 AM »
I have been doing a bit of introspection today.  I am in the car driving kids two hours a day with drop offs, pick ups and pick up lines.  So plenty of thinky time. 

I recognize I am in a vulnerable place.  Being here in FL alone with my kids.  I have no close friends (really by my own choosing).  There is a feeling that I have to guard my heart because I am broken and truly in no place to make good choices.  The thing is, I feel more vulnerable now that I am strong enough to start letting people in a bit.  I recognize that without strong boundaries on myself, I might make unwise choices. 

I learned a lesson a few years ago that will save me pain now.  When my husband was deployed, I had a ton of friends, but none of them were military and none of them got it.  Also, they all had husbands to go home to and lives to live.  So, I was lonely.  There was a woman in our group that was single.  She had good qualities, but she was trouble.  I knew better than to let her into my inner circle, but I was lonely and she had time to hang out.  We became really close over that summer, until she showed who deep down I knew she already was.  I let my guard down and it caused further hurt.  I will not do that now, I will only let people into my world who are worthy of being there and only at the appropriate time.

This week, I feel strong.  I am about to go for a run outside on the tracks behind my house.  But, I have been at this long enough to know I cycle and just because I feel strong this week does not mean I am healed. 

Every since my kids confronted my h a few weeks back he has been kind, but the absence of monster changes nothing about our relationship.  He is still running.  He wants to get along, but divorce me.  I’m tired of focusing on him.  On his issues.  I don’t think he’s seen a lawyer yet.  It is getting easier to show no emotions toward him whatsoever.  It’s getting easier to just live my life without him.  Soon(I ‘m unsure how long), I will be the one zooming full speed ahead in my life.  Soon, he will have to chase to keep up.  For now I am inching forward, but I sense a change coming.  I sense a real detachment setting in.  My thoughts towards him are not bad, not good, just indifferent.  I love who he was and who he hopefully will be again, but this person only has my prayers, not my heart.

« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 07:40:49 AM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #101 on: September 09, 2019, 08:26:08 AM »
That all makes a lot of sense and is very healthy FJ,

I find that very hard too.... only letting people in who are worth letting in. The broken people have all kinds of time and the ones who aren't are busy all the time.

Very hard.

This is why people at divorce groups are on the prowl (I think). Where else will you find someone "good" who has been "locked in" and stable for a long period of time?
I hope your H sees you start to pull away and panic. If he has a brain in there right now, he'd be a fool to let you go. As he chills out, I think the chances increase not decrease.

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #102 on: September 10, 2019, 06:36:33 AM »
SS,  I hope so too!  Many days I have a peace about it all(this is new).  He will either recognize what is of value in this life before it’s too late for our marriage, or he won’t.  I guess at this point I can only pray and give him to God.

Journaling-

The pit of despair.  Today I noticed that my pit of despair is gone(dramatic much;).  For the last year, at all times I had a ball of pain in my gut.  I could cycle up or down in my emotions, but that pit of despair was always there.

The moment I opened my eyes in the morning or even in the middle of the night, that gut wrenching feeling was there.  I wondered if it would ever leave. 

It is gone!  I have a lightness in my heart again.  I have joy again.  I have peace again.

Granted I still cycle up and down and my MLC troubles are far from over, but now without that pit.  I’m  excited for life again, with or without my h.

Does anyone else relate?

« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 06:49:46 AM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline DCD

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #103 on: September 10, 2019, 07:08:24 AM »


Does anyone else relate?



YES!!  :)

And the best part is that while you might have days where something might get you down, you bounce right back - it's a bit a of trip instead of a full-on face plant.  A corner has been turned and life IS exciting!! Enjoy  :)
some days are yellow
some days are blue
on different days, i'm different too
you'd be surprised how many ways
i change on different-colored days.
 - dr. seuss

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #104 on: September 10, 2019, 07:17:43 AM »
Yes.... although it comes and goes for me.

The pit of despair (Princess Bride.... what a great movie)

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #105 on: September 10, 2019, 08:26:28 AM »
I called it the Abyss. I fell in and climbed out more times than I can remember, tiptoed round it, sometimes peered over the edge. But yes, completely. In fact I remember my first full non Abyss day...Oct 5th 2018. It felt like a huge gift.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #106 on: September 10, 2019, 08:59:00 AM »
Thanks guys!  It is nice to be moving forward and healing.  I am now past the point of no return and know that I can be happy again.  I know I can live a full life again.

I am not fully there yet, but I can see it now.  I remember a time when I only saw despair in my future.

SS-Yes, The Princess Bride!!  I need to watch that soon.

DCD-I’m so glad to hear that!!!

Treasur-In another post you mentioned how ptsd lies to you.  How you think you will never heal.
My husband has ptsd and he believes he will always be like this.  He has no hope, which I believe is part of why he is making bad choices.

Journaling-I went for another run today.  I literally have zero excuses for not working out regularly, as my options are endless.  I live within walking distance of a gym, a long distance running trail, a regular running track, the beach(for walking), and the bay(with a sidewalk for running).  I also have a membership to beach body for the year for days I want to stay home.

I live within a 5 minute drive to a protected bay perfect for paddle boarding and plan to buy myself a board for Christmas(as I have wanted one for years).  I already own four kayaks and I also have access to lap lanes for swimming(indoor and out).  Anyways, endless possibilities.

I haven’t decided if the kids and I will go to the single parent volleyball, pool table and racket ball night on Friday.  I should go.  I have horrible eye hand coordination and have always done better in solo sports like running and swimming.  I’m not sure I have the confidence to meet all of these people in a group setting where I am bad at Every single activity;). Once I know everyone I will be much more comfortable just having fun and being horrible.  I am good at laughing things off(or used to be).
 
I have decided to allow my h back in the house when he visits the kids.  It would eliminate some trouble we are having(they want to be here with their friends) and I am healed enough to be around him.  So long as he is on his best behavior I see no harm.

I do have some hope for our marriage.  By staying here for the next two years I do not have to keep my h on a divorce timetable.  I can let him handle things completely.  We have a separation agreement and so there is no harm for me(for the next two years) to let him handle the divorce.  So far he has done nothing.  He is adamant about it happening though.  When he divorces me I lose my free healthcare, and housing, but the kids will keep their healthcare.  So staying married is in my best interests.  Thankfully, much of their college(if not all will also be covered), it will be put in the d so that he does not try to give it away to any future stepchild.  He joined the service in TX, so he has TX college benefits and national college benefits.  So the kids will be in a good spot for their undergrad, but on their own for grad school.

We have already discussed these things and agreed.  I will also be given his spousal pension if he dies, and his life insurance will stay intact so long as he owes alimony.

There should only be two big areas of contention.  The house and his pension.  For his pension I am only asking for what is rightfully owed for how long we have been married, but he does not want to give me any of it.  Military pension is a big deal because it will start as soon as he gets out of the military and will pay out for the duration of his life.  I will be under 50 when the pension starts.  If we went to court, I would easily be awarded my portion, but I’m hoping he comes to his senses to save $. 

As far as the house, I plan to bargain my lifetime alimony for a larger portion of the homes equity.  Maybe offer 15 years of alimony payments to get 80 percent of the equity in the home.  Really if I never remarry it is a bad deal for me, but if I remarry it is a bad deal for him.  Who knows what the future holds, as alimony stops when I remarry.  He would be smart to take the deal as he could be paying me alimony forever.  I need the equity to get the kids and I into a good home and he would still get a cash pay out.  I cannot afford to buy the home from him, but at one point recently he mentioned giving me the home.  We will see, he certainly does not owe me that.

He is going to blow any Money he gets.  I have no control over that though.  I worked so hard on that house(alone).  So many hours of physical labor landscaping, painting, projects.  I painted the 3/4 of our house that is stucco, three coats each(stone front), the entire inside, every door, the garage floor and put in 8 new chandeliers and/or pendant lights last year.  It was exhausting and he did not lift a finger.  Anyways...I have forgiven him....it is ongoing forgiveness.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 10:27:46 AM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #107 on: September 10, 2019, 09:23:40 AM »
Yup, ptsd is an a$$ of a thing...I get that this is how he might feel and I get the self destructive bit that goes with it. And the Avoidance.

But actually the opposite is true. In many ways mechanically PTSD is a much more 'straightforward' thing than treating depression say. It doesn't feel like it but it is...it is a brain/body issue, a normal response to an abnormal situation. I had EMDR treatment which was like a weird miracle tbh...once you help the brain process the trauma, the emotional and behaviour stuff becomes much easier to deal with. Bessel van der Kolk has a great video on you tube which explains a lot about how PTSD works. If you have time on your hands lol bc I am gobby, my threads from probably oct/Nov 2018 describe some of my own PTSD experience. Your h's mileage of course may vary.  :)

Is he seeing a trauma specialist? I know the VA is a big proponent of EMDR so I hope he is getting the right kind of help. Took me about 6-9 months to go from throwing up on my shoes to feeling much more like Me albeit with some mess to clean up...but you need the right help and you need the courage to get stuck in to it. Jmo. But I absolutely thought I was losing my mind before that and that I would never be able to find myself again or be normal.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 09:27:42 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #108 on: September 10, 2019, 10:36:59 AM »
Treasur-He tells me little.  He says he is seeing a psychologist.  He admits to very little now, but when he first got back from deployment they diagnosed him with all kinds of things.  Now he says that is not true, I think because we are going through a d and he is afraid of loosing the kids.  So long as he is good to them, I would never do that.

I have suggested EMDR therapy because you have mentioned it, but my words mean nothing to him.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #109 on: September 10, 2019, 11:03:51 AM »
Hardest thing to accept is that your words mean nothing no matter how good your intent, no matter the fact that you have loved them for years and want them to be well divorced or not. But you are quite right FJ....nothing you can say or do. It sounds as if he has had a nibble on therapy, doesn't like what he's being told and will justify not doing it. Actually bc he is a) afraid and b) not desparate enough yet. My then h was diagnosed and got psychiatric care but I had a lot of concerns that his ongoing behaviour suggested that it was neither the right treatment plan nor the right medication...no one cared about my opinion or my experience of the healthy version of my h, there was nothing I could do but pray for him tbh. And after two years of psychiatric care (and when he hadn't even seen my face for well over a year) he was still sufficiently unwell that he talked in early 2018 that he was being told he needed inpatient treatment...so that suggests psychiatric plan a didn't go so well perhaps. But I have no idea if he went bc of course unbeknownst to me he had a wedding to go to  ::)

In my moments of doubt, the facts that I knew that my xh had spent over two years in treatment and had not magically got better after getting rid of me or his old life was a useful reality check. Sad but useful.

On an encouraging note, I saw different IC as I tried to survive the last 3 years. I knew I had anxiety and depression but I had to get a lot worse and really feel like I was stuck with no way out to admit that I might have PTSD. And that I was beyond f**ked and needed expert help. And that something was going on that neither time nor willpower was magically fixing. I felt ashamed and completely lost...which made me look at the recommended treatments...still took me probably a month or more to make an appointment with the EMDR specialist and I threw up on the way there bc I was so afraid. I was afraid that the treatment would need me to deal with what I already knew I couldn't deal with if that makes sense. I genuinely feared that one more drop of pain might kill me, so it was truly a life or death thing for me at the time. I remember that she asked me if I wanted her to explain how it worked or take a book away about the research etc...normal me, yup...broken me didn't care. I was so desparate that to be honest if she had said it involved singing sea shanties while balancing a cookie on my nose, I would have given it a go lol. (It doesn't  :))  )

Addicts and the mentally ill need to hit their own wall, I think, and it is a very individual measure. I hit mine. I hope and pray that your h will eventually hit his.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 11:08:45 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #110 on: September 10, 2019, 11:38:32 AM »
Treasur- You truly hit the nail on the head with everything you just said.  He has to want it enough to find something that works.  Currently he is content believing he cannot get better, but has not made much effort to try.  I think EMDR therapy would help him, but what do I know(just his horrible wife who ruined his life and has cooties;).
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #111 on: September 10, 2019, 12:06:05 PM »
I was thinking a bit about ‘cake eating’ today.  About how many of us can only get ‘cake’ from one source.  Sadly that source already has someone eating from it and so germs are an issue.

But, some of us Really like ‘cake’.  The idea of going many years without ‘cake’, is unsettling.  The cake is really good ‘cake’.  The baker knows what they are doing, as the’ve had many years of experience, but after the cake is eaten I know there will be ‘cake’ guilt.  Still, sometimes you just need a good slice of ‘cake’. 

Hmmm.  It’s a good thing this particular cake is not available at midnight when my will power is less than sufficient.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline One day at a time

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #112 on: September 10, 2019, 02:51:35 PM »
Oh I hear you FJ!! I just can't imagine going on forever without "cake"!! The "cake" I used to enjoy though now looks like it fell on the floor and people have stepped on it so I can't see myself eating it anymore... So eventually I think I will have to find a different "cake"... I'm not one for sampling though so I have to make the right choice!  ;)
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #113 on: September 10, 2019, 03:59:14 PM »
You’ve got me laughing one day!!

I’m not one for sampling either and I think the cake I’m used to eating has rotted with ow cooties! :o. Too bad!!

« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 05:40:07 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #114 on: September 10, 2019, 04:16:27 PM »
Journaling, It is the first night I have allowed my h in the house with me still in it in some time.  I was not triggered by his presence and in fact, felt nothing.  I just served the dinner quiche up to everyone and treated him like a casual acquaintance.  After awhile I came upstairs to my room.

He did say something that was ludicrous.  I just smiled and did not say a word.  I wasn’t smiling at him, I’m just in a smiley mood.

He comes in and tells d14 that her MeMaw says she loves her(h’s mom who had an MLC, tried to come back, was denied and never came out of MLC).  My d14 says, “oh, then why hasn’t she called in like 8 years” ;D.  He thinks a minute and says, I guess things aren’t always black and white. 

Not to be an MLC basher ::), but seriously!  That is one of the things he told me after bd, I see things in black and white.  Yes, I do see certain things in black and white, hmm let’s see, when you’re married you cannot also have a girlfriend.  What else, uhm when you have a gaggle of kids, you are in fact expected to be a father to them, not just a friend.  Lastly, if you care anything about someone, you talk to them(she never ever contacts any of us). 

Anyways, I thought it showed how crazy he is.  D14 also commented the other day about how h always uses the bathroom when he comes by.  I had noticed it too, like he needs to find a way to get inside.  It’s weird.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 04:53:34 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #115 on: September 11, 2019, 07:44:40 AM »
I spoke with my LBS friend who lives in OH with 5 kids last night.  She got bd at the same time I did last year, but they are now divorced, she would never consider taking him back.  He really messed her over financially and had it put in the D that she HAS to work full time.  Which is just a lot with 5 kids as a single mom. 

She is a nurse and is getting back out there, but not looking for a serious relationship.  This next summer she and her 5 kids plan to come hang with us on the FL beaches. 

Today is day two that my despair seems to be gone.  I feel light and ready to live life.  My d8 is sick today and she and I are missing out on the big Patriots Day event at her school.  S5 is still participating and h will get to go. 

I will miss divorce recovery tonight, d14 called my h for a ride to youth group since d8 has the stomach bug.  My h said he has plans so that is iffy.  He called me(he seems to call everyday for something) and I mentioned that I also had plans tonight(he does not know I do a d class), but that I would have to miss them because that is how it goes with a sick child.

Of course he did not take the bait and is highly unlikely to skip his plans to run s12, s5 and d14 to their Wednesday night activities.

Not to worry, I did not try to seduce my h yesterday.  I’m seriously not attracted to selfishness, or 15 year olds in a 42 year old body.  I do miss my old h, but do not wallow in that too often.

I have to believe I will be divorced by next summer because it will hurt less to have my guard up.  That said, I have always been my h’s secretary and if I were not paying all of our bills, I doubt they would get paid.  We have a situation that needs handled by mid October(he needs to act now), it affects us both financially.  If he would give me permission I would deal with it, but he will not.  He however is not dealing with it either.  I am concerned.

Seeing this small thing does lead me to believe there is a good chance the d will drag out, as he cannot function and has not even gotten a lawyer.  It would be nice if it drug out through the summer, as I will not have a teaching job until fall and having healthcare lapse would not be ideal.  Though, I am of perfect health currently.

I just feel so indifferent when it comes to this version of my h.  I pray for him, but feel nothing for him.  It’s a weird detached feeling, and now I understand how some of you can be casual, chatty even, flirt, or just be carefree while around them.  I can see how we sometimes begin to act like the ow.  I don’t need him, I am not dependent emotionally on him, much like a new ow it is just carefree banter or flirting.  I am not there with him yet, but I see how easy it is to get there.  Because I am ready to enjoy life and let the resentments go.  To have fun and live fully. 

If he wants to live in misery and not deal with his stuff for years, it’s not my problem anymore.  I have done the hard work of healing, of feeling my emotions fully, of looking into the “abyss” and choosing not to fall in.  His work is on him.  That said, I can tell he sees changes in me, but I think me being content just takes his guilt away, it is not turning him toward me at this time.  He feels better about living for himself because he knows the kids have me and I am fine.

This may change, but this is what I see right now.  Though I did notice him do a double take in a good way the other day.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Couragedearheart

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #116 on: September 11, 2019, 11:34:37 AM »
Joy,
They have special cake stores that sell imitation cake.
It’s certainly not the real deal....but it will do in a pinch.  And imitation cake is better than no cake at all. Think of it as “self care.”   😂😂😂

And he is finding a way in to scan the area and assess your level of detachment? HA! I would have fun with that....but I happen to have a devious mind....I might even conspicuously start to place new pictures of you and the kids without him in it around. Borrow a male friends jacket. 🤷‍♀️ Have fun with it.

Heck you could literally stage any scenario you wanted....what’s the halter and stirrups for? We bought a small indoor horse, none of your business, you have used the restroom and spent 23 minutes washing your hands....get out!

In fact if it was me....I would say I was busy...had places to be and make a point of hustling him back out of the house and leaving.....sorry dear....you moved out and your family doesn’t have time for you anymore.....🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #117 on: September 11, 2019, 12:22:57 PM »
Courage-Haha!  All awesome ideas!  Maybe just a random picture of a male model:)

Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Couragedearheart

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #118 on: September 11, 2019, 12:38:29 PM »
Joy,
Precisely. But if he asks who that is...just say “oh, that? It’s just a friend.” 🤷‍♀️
😂😂😂
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #119 on: September 11, 2019, 12:43:12 PM »
The thing is, it’s one thing to be pretty sure they are with an OW and it’s another thing to know.

I now know without a shadow he is still in a relationship with ow2 and I now know for sure it is physical.  I was not snooping.  Months ago, I used to look at our joint cell phone records, and that is how I knew he had an OW2.  They talked all the time and so I assumed since he had moved out, they were likely intimate.

Back then I looked up her info briefly, just enough to know she was single, and lived either in a town in TN or that, that was her previous address and now she lived in Charleston SC.

That is all I needed to know and since then I just assumed he was with her, and assumed he was visiting her regularly.  He denies it all, and so a part of me wondered if nothing ever came of them, or if they had broken up.

He has never, ever, even in the face of proof admitted to anything.  It’s all lies. Always.

Well, I was on online banking today and noticed his money withdrawal was from Charleston, SC.  He was supposedly in VA last week.  I knew as soon as I saw it, but wanted his reaction.  I asked him via text, did you go to Charleston, SC?  He said, I drove through there why?  I said, odd way to get home.  Admittedly toying with him.

He then calls....All the proof I needed.  A panic call.  Why do I want to know?  What does it matter?

I took our family picture down and my ring off after he said some disrespectful things on the phone.  I am not one to live a life as a doormat.  He has a girlfriend and reinforced that I mean nothing to him on the phone.  “What does it matter if I am seeing someone, we will be divorced soon”.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #120 on: September 11, 2019, 05:02:56 PM »
Oh FJ........

What a crappy thing to do/say..... I'm so sorry.

 :(

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #121 on: September 11, 2019, 09:18:21 PM »
So sorry FJ. What a horrible thing to say! I hate it that you're being treated that way. >:(

Quote
I have done the hard work of healing, of feeling my emotions fully, of looking into the “abyss” and choosing not to fall in.  His work is on him
Well said. You've faced the worst and not backed down. You're going to keep getting a little stronger day by day.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019

Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11093.0;topicseen

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #122 on: September 12, 2019, 02:04:44 AM »
Typical teenager bluster when confronted with evidence..... xW was like that as well in some ways  "If you don't have concrete evidence, it didn't happen."

Well, text messages worrying about being pregnant are not evidence?  ::)

It is a totally horrible thing for him to say... It is still about age 12... if that....
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #123 on: September 12, 2019, 06:57:26 AM »
Thank You-SS, PJ and UM, I appreciate the encouragement!

Journaling-H and I discussed quite a bit yesterday.  After me bringing up him seeing someone, he of course escalated the conversation.  He never actually admitted to anything, but said it really doesn’t matter.

He is meeting with a lawyer, just the free consultation next week.  We plan to mediate.  After we both meet with lawyers and get a basic understanding of things, he and I will hash out as much as we can without lawyers.  He is already wanting to begin discussions, but we will wait to file until school is out.

Basically, custody is not in dispute.  I will get them.  He now knows FL is a permanent alimony state, we will negotiate less years of alimony for the house.  Probably a 90/10 or 80/20 split on equity versus 100 percent.  We will see if 100 percent is doable.  He is now open on the house.

I told him pension is off the table.  I want the full portion owed to me and will not negotiate.  If we both live to 80 years(he retires in 9 years) that pension in today’s money is worth $2 million.  If we live to 90 it is worth more.  So, It is hugely contentious, but I only want my fair share.  Nothing more.

Child support is a set amount.  The amount I should ask in alimony is something I need to ask a lawyer.  I want something set that will not fluctuate if I earn more or he earns less.  I do not want to fear him taking me to court every time I get a raise, as he will also continue to earn more(in theory).

He is willing to sign all college funds to our kids.  It is basically 8 years, plus about $60,000 in tax free money, which should hopefully cover all 4 to go to undergraduate school, if they live at home or pay their own housing.  Maybe one or two will go into a trade school(two years), or someone will get a scholarship.

He is so cruel.  He tells me I mean nothing.  He acts like he hates me.  All of this has not returned my horrible “pit of despair”.  I am good.  I recognize that he is not currently worth my tears.  He curses God in front of me and I can barely stand to be near him when he is so vile.

He has been given four choices as to where to get stationed next.  They extended him another 3 years even though he did not make rank(so that’s good).  He can chose between Rota Spain, Sigonella Italy, Washington DC, or where we used to live(and own a home) in TX.

We were supposed to get to go to Rota Spain this last tour!  We were all so excited!  But, they decided to send someone without a family as it was cheaper.  So if he goes, he will be being rewarded for ditching his family.  The two overseas duty stations are only being offered to him because he would not be taking his 5 other family members.  If we only had two kids this would not be an issue.

He says he will stay stateside because he would never see the kids if he went.  We will see.  So either DC or TX.  He now says if he does not make rank next year he will have to chose DC.  It is good for his career.  It is also much closer to OW2 than TX.  I have been to DC twice!  It is fun to visit, and for the sake of my family I would have lived there for thee years and made the best of it, but I have no desire to live in DC.  I guess if we get back together(not looking likely), I will decide then.  At least he has a job that forces him to do right by his family.  Navy law requires him to pay 3/5’s of his income to me so long as we are married due to our family size.  That is the only reason he has kept our finances joint.

It is getting easier and easier to look at this as a business transaction.  What am I holding onto? 
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 07:36:09 AM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline PJ Will Be OK

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #124 on: September 12, 2019, 10:19:15 AM »
Two things jumped out at me from your last post.

1. You're doing great. Very level-headed.
2. You H really screwed up big time. Spiritually, emotionally, parentally, professionally and financially. That boy done messed up.
"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019

Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

"Learning how to live like she ain't coming back."

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11093.0;topicseen

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #125 on: September 12, 2019, 03:18:10 PM »
Hey PJ!  I’m at the dentist with my whole crew!  That’s right!  He done messed up 8).  This girl has her business hat on now! 
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline beyondblessed

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #126 on: September 12, 2019, 05:25:18 PM »
Well, since you have your business that on, FJ, I will not feel bad at all for reminding you that he probably feels a tremendous amount of guilt right now for being caught in his lie.  Absolutely take total advantage of this little nugget and use it for all it's worth in the settlement.   Yes, you want to be fair because you are level headed, but do not fir one minute believe he feels the same in that regard.  Get that settlement done and inked before he has a chance to go full on monster.   

At the time of my own D, I looked at it as saving our ass from OW, should he have come back to his senses.  At least I could be responsible enough to safeguard all we'd worked so hard to accumulate.   No way in hell was some troll getting a piece of it because he was off in la la land.  Obviously he's still in la-la land, but I still have everything I gained in the D 3.5 years ago, and I've also managed to grow some of it through wise investments.   He probably doesn't even have a pot to piss in because he blew what money he got, but that's not my problem.  I have no use for him now and was completely done a long time ago.  He should've made better choices.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #127 on: September 12, 2019, 06:57:31 PM »
Blessed,  I agree that my h will blow any money he receives.  It is hard to imagine all that we have worked so hard for being blown on silly MLC stuff.  Unfortunately, all I can do for now is try to get him to start accepting some things.  We are months away from sitting down with lawyers and a mediator.

We are doing coffee this weekend to discuss some things.  He is playing nice, at least today.  I do think if he is going to divorce me, probably better now than when ow2 has more of a say.  I do not take pleasure in the fact that this man is likely going to struggle financially for years to come.  He just does not care about the consequences of his choices.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #128 on: September 13, 2019, 12:57:55 AM »
FJ,

I was stationed in DC for 5 years and, while I loved the job, I really disliked the whole atmosphere there. I doubt that, in the current political climate, that it has improved much.

In the situation as you describe it, better to take the bull by the horns and get things locked down now. Once he goes off to his next duty station, regardless of where that is, it will be MUCH more difficult to wrap things up, not to mention that OW<x>  will have the chance to exert far greater influence than she currently does.

Since he is adamant that you mean nothing to him, then he should be happy to do whatever is needed to get rid of you, right? Use that for what it is worth...
Me - 56
STBXW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #129 on: September 13, 2019, 07:10:30 AM »
UM, yes I cannot imagine living around all of that contention.  Though my true reasons for not wanting to live there are more along the lines of weather, commute and no one I know has enjoyed it. 

He does not leave for 22 months.  So plenty of time to start and finish the d.  So then, are you a US citizen?

Journaling-Last night something screamed out at me during a conversation with my h.  It’s funny because we read things here, but sometimes it takes experiencing them to relate it to our situation.
My d8 has been expressing sadness over her Dad “ditching” her lately.  I informed him and he went on a tirade against d14.

D14 is a teenager and she does not keep her opinion about her dad to herself.  He feels she has turned some of the other kids against him(before he blamed me).  I do ask her not to speak negatively about her d in front of the littles.  Of course instead of taking accountability for hurting d8, he goes off about d14.

What he said is so very telling.  He is mad at God.  So long as he is mad at God, he will hate me because I put God first in my life.  For someone running from God, being around someone like me or d14 is not pleasant.  Even if we say nothing, our life revolves around the God he currently hates.

He started ranting about how d14 is the perfect example of what a joke Christians are.  He went on and on.  I reminded him that HIS actions are causing this, and that d14 is hurting and that we as Christians do not claim to be perfect.  She is a teenager acting like teenagers do.

It did help me though.  A reminder that his hate for me is truly his hate for God and himself.  It only changes how I let his words effect me...taken with a grain of salt.

One of the reasons I stayed here in FL is to let the situation play out.  If he is still this person in two years, I will chose not to move back to the duty station in TX we were in before, same thing if he gets stationed in DC.  So by waiting, I can make better long term choices.

I have long since wanted to live in East TX, it is affordable and has lots of trees and water.  If he is still this person in two years, I will not blink about the kids and I living 6 hours from his TX duty station(TX is a big state).  I do wish he comprehended how his choices now may cause him to be apart from his kids long term.  Unfortunately, he lives in a fantasy world.  If I make the decision to move to East TX and buy a house, my decision will mean any hope of reconciliation is gone because I would not relocate again and he cannot get stationed there. 

So my MLCer has always been on a timeframe(for reconciliation) due to his military life.  In essence he has 22 months to make some improvements, to make me think he is worth moving to live near(for coparenting, and the kids to have a dad).  I do like the area in TX where we used to live(and he will likely get stationed again), but if not for me wanting the kids to live near their father, I would not consider it.  Mostly because it is very expensive and there is not as much nature. 

I am meeting him tonight for coffee.  Should be fun ::)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 07:23:35 AM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #130 on: September 13, 2019, 07:23:07 AM »
Yup, there are those moments when we see something so clearly aren't there?
It is the gift of increased detachment I think.
His reaction is not normal or proportional. Anyone healthy can see that.
He left. D8 feels 'ditched' by him. He blames D14....and then God and maybe you. Has a vent and a rant. Does nothing that comforts or reassures D8. Epic fail on all fronts and nothing addressed or resolved  ::)

From a distance you can see how skewed and self-obsessed his perspective on pretty much everything is. He would rather blame D14 than take responsibility for the consequences of his actions on D8 or even just try to comfort her. He is somehow the victim. It is close to delusional to witness isn't it? But absolutely how they roll.

You are being admirably clear-sighted FJ both about this kind of stuff and your longer term plans.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #131 on: September 13, 2019, 08:25:53 AM »
Treasur-So true!  Instead of changing his actions he blamed D14 and every Christian on earth;). I realized not too long ago that when the time comes(if we are not reconciled), I am not afraid to move somewhere without a support system.  D14 will be driving by then and tbh, I have very little support here and I am fine.  It made me excited, because I can live where I want to live. 


Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #132 on: September 13, 2019, 08:51:33 AM »
It's the MLC version of 'the dog ate my homework so I yelled at it'  ::)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #133 on: September 13, 2019, 12:55:07 PM »
Treasur-For sure!  What to do when you have an extra kid you never wanted or gave birth too;)

Journaling-I talk to the woman I consider like a mom/best friend constantly.  She just listens, and listens.  I was the listener for her for many years due to her own marriage struggles.  It is a true blessing.

I walked the beach today after getting some things done and chatted with her.  There were so many blue crabs today and the water was extra clear.  There is no place better to heal than nature. 

I am waiting to here from my h as to whether we are still on for tonight.  I decided not to go to the single parent event at my church tonight, I will slowly get involved.  I did end up getting to go to my divorce care class on Wednesday after all.  I am almost sure the husband who runs it with his wife is an ex MLCer.  She is his 2nd wife(though I do not believe she was the OW).  The man spoke in my d14 class about his biggest regret in life being his regret over his divorce.

Anyways, at least he is doing well now and giving back.  A lawyer is coming to our class next week.  We are going to get to ask questions.

My h did allude to giving my kids his car when my d is of age.  I would take over the tiny payment.  So that is good.  I am stressed over the idea of working next year without another driver.  I may try to get d14 an early permit next summer.  It would be great if she could drive herself and s12 to school.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 01:08:03 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline One day at a time

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #134 on: September 13, 2019, 02:39:57 PM »
You really are a planner!!  ;D I have no idea what I'll do in 2 years time!

I hope coffee with your H goes well.. or as well as it can be expected. Business hat on is very wise.. No point in giving the MLCer much because they tend to simply blow it.

It does get to a point when you nearly look at the MLCer with pity, right?  My H never really monstered but when we were separated but still living in the same house, I got a bit of monster specially if I tried to have R talks or pressure him in any way.. I didn't see it then because I was too shell-shocked but now I see it as teenager rebellion. Which for a 41 yo was a bit sad  ::)
Your H's words to me sound like he's trying his best to push you away.. And being mean is a way to do it. Which is very immature and rather typical in MLC world..

I'm happy to read you are feeling detached. It's the best way to handle this but very very hard to get there. And even if you cycle from time to time, you'll get back to detached.. At least that's how's working for me!
H - 42 (40 @BD1)
M - 42 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #135 on: September 13, 2019, 03:47:47 PM »
One Day!  Thank you so much!!   I really am a planner, but more so right now because I am on a timeline for events that need to take place at certain times.  I typically do have several back up plans to plans.  But, I’m also good with being flexible.  I need structure in certain areas of life.  Right now, my life is chaos, I’m not a fan of choas ::)

I’m getting dressed up to go meet him.  We are going to a coffee bar where they serve crepes, coffee and alcohol.  I will not drink, but it would have taken the edge off.

Now, I just see him as someone I used to know with major mental health issues.  I’m thankful I am not him, his life is not one to envy.  Just business as usual(with a cray cray person, whom I love).   ;)


« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 04:08:11 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #136 on: September 13, 2019, 04:08:15 PM »
Quote
Treasur-For sure!  What to do when you have an extra kid you never wanted or gave birth too;)

Let him be 'fostered' by ow#2?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #137 on: September 13, 2019, 04:28:12 PM »
Treasur-;). She can have him for now!

Mediation date night!  The stuff dreams are made of:). I do love our downtown area!  Lots of fun places.  You better believe I’m looking good ;)
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #138 on: September 13, 2019, 04:44:01 PM »
He however is not looking good.  Should that make me happy?  Haddie’s bus?  Also, he will not look at me...
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #139 on: September 13, 2019, 07:24:33 PM »
All kidding aside this is so hard.  It hurts so much to walk through this.  I’m not sure I could ever take him back, I view him as a horrible human being now.

He’s just no longer someone I want in my life at all.  I don’t currently see a way I could ever take him back. 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 07:26:21 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #140 on: September 13, 2019, 07:37:24 PM »
Very sorry to hear FJ.......

Going to make sure I pray for you tonight.

I hope that time changes him, that time heals you, and that in the end everything will be for the better.
Very sorry you're having such a terrible time, and I hope it improves soon.

You're riding it thru so powerfully, it's amazing to hear your updates (and heartbreaking).

I can't remember if you know what his root cause of the issue is. What was it?

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #141 on: September 13, 2019, 07:44:27 PM »
Hello,

I am so sorry to hear this. When I was dealing with my ex, it would seem that there was hope and I could feel that we were turning the corner. Then BAM, she would say or do something that just sapped all the feeling from me. By the time she left after the divorce was complete, I was so done.

I remember when she left to drive to Washington. She gave me a quick hug goodbye and looked at me and said, "Who knows, we might end up together again."

As she drove off, I rolled her words over in my mind and thought. Hmmm, between never and no chance in hell where along the continuum does that statement fall. Hopefully, you don't get to that stage.

I don't know what he said or did, but I can take it that he was not a good boy tonight.  So sorry.


Have a good weekend, and (((Hugs))) and more (((Hugs)))

Ready

"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #142 on: September 13, 2019, 08:38:59 PM »
SS-Do you mean the root of his MLC?  His mom had an MLC(never ended, abandoned them), the deployment broke him.  He is mad at God and a shell of a person.  Thank you for the prayers!  God will have to change my heart if we are ever to get back together.  I do not like to feel like a victim or be a victim and I also do not like to throw around words like abuse.  But, it’s the only word that fits the last year for me.  He is verbally abusive towards me, and I’m not sure I ever considered that a thing before now.

Ready-I totally relate with getting to the point where you want nothing to do with their crazy anymore.  This is h*ll, and sure we can find the good in it all, but h*ll is still h*ll.

Journaling-It does not matter the brave face I wear, I just need this divorce to be over so that I do not have to pick up the phone when he calls.  I want to move to text only, but have tried to answer when he calls in order to stay on good terms.  For the sake of the divorce and mediation I need to try and be the bigger person.

I’m not sure what I can say about tonight.  I am married to a man who hates me and only cares about his kids to a point.  He talks love for the kids, but puts himself first.  I view him as a horrible person.  I try not to, I know he is mentally ill, but he treats me horribly and well, mentally ill people can be monsters.  That is how I view him.

I feel I am better off cutting any heart strings and protecting myself completely.  It’s going to be a long year.  He could care less about doing right by me and will get away with anything he can.

He talks about how much he hates it here in FL and needs support.  So I guess he feels unsupported.  For now I just have to put my own oxygen mask on and let him deal with his stuff.  It is obvious I am his punching bag and if he can find a way to hurt me he will.

I do think there comes a point where they have gone too far.  I cannot imagine making it through this divorce without him crossing that line. 

« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 09:34:34 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #143 on: September 14, 2019, 02:01:19 AM »
Fwiw, FJ....if it is not a word you use lightly, the first time 'I feel like I'm being abused' crosses your mind, it is worth treating that feeling with respect as a piece of information.

Your POV on your h as he is now seems admirably realistic although I am sure it is sad and painful to accept. Yes he is mentally ill and yes he behaves like a horrible person.

There are things we can do to be 'the bigger person' in situations of conflict with others. Normally we do that for two reasons; bc how we behave influences a change in how they behave of bc of our own inherent values and beliefs. In normal situations, that works fine. In dealing with the mentally ill, abusive or addicted, not always so much.

At that point, the hmmm this feels like abuse point, it is healthier and helpful to focus on our own wellbeing first. If it makes you feel safer or saner, that is a good enough reason. And that starts with rock solid boundaries untempered by excuses or fear of what the abuser will think. I would suggest that the very next time your h says something demeaning or aggressive, you send him a warning shot across the bows. Along the lines of 'I can see the benefit of us being able to talk about some issues right now, but if you are rude/aggressive (as appropriate) to me again, I will end the conversation.' He will then inevitably test your boundary so you end the conversation/walk away/put the phone down.

On top of that, please consider what you need. And beware of the fake mental bargaining that says if you 'play nice' in a divorce process, so will he. It is rarely the case with folks in crisis/mentally ill. Their behaviour is self-generating and about not much more than how they feel at a given moment. If you feel that talking to him on the phone is not helpful to you, then stop. Your kids are old enough I think for him to contact them directly if he wishes to do so or vice versa. Drop to email for anything related to kids, money or the divorce process (which has the benefit of a document trail. Worth assuming too that any email/text you send will be read by ow#?....not sure why just seems to be part of the ow script of him asking for her 'support'  ::) ) Perhaps text for emergencies or logistics in the next 24 hours depending on how your h uses his phone. When/if he comes to the house to see the kids etc, be civil but distant. If he gets monster-y or does a 'see you're so cold so this is why...' spew, find a short light way to say something like 'sorry you feel that way...I guess this is what naturally happens during a divorce'...then keep walking  :)

Imho abuse is a kind of emotional cancer and we can be niave about the effect on us of being belittled, devalued, ignored, shouted at and gaslit if we have not experienced it before. All MLCers are abusive to some extent. And seem to have little empathy for anyone else. Some mix of fear and control seems to drive it....but whatever they say or do they are usually only driven by what they want while they are in crisis. This is not how a sane decent adult normally behaves, but it is how they are. I think they have an almost compulsive need to believe their own justifying story...whatever it is...or the whole house of cards comes down. This means that they have cast you in a 'role' as x in their drama regardless of what you say or do. If they need to hate or blame you, they will and that is beyond your control.

But if you think of a boundary like a protective fence around you, you do not have to hear it or defend yourself against the common DARVO twists of the disordered. And it can damage your wellbeing if you do for too long.

I still remember a moment of shock almost when I realised that my then h was acting like an abuser. It was hard to swallow that he had become someone capable of that as it was so different from who he had been. But truthfully the hardest thing was to accept that, as strong and smart as I believed I was lol, I was being abused. Didn't make me feel great about either of us...but limiting contact so I could limit his opportunity to abuse me helped me see it for what it was. I was not able to stop either crazy or nasty...but I could build a bigger wall to protect my right to live a life without it.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #144 on: September 14, 2019, 06:47:10 AM »
Treasure-I cannot yet process your words, but will read them later today.

Journaling-I had a couple of panic attacks in the night last night.  I think because this is really happening and how it is happening.  I feel as if he is on the attack and I do not want to be in a battle, but I am. 

We have soccer and a pancake breakfast this morning.  I’m sure it will feel better soon.  I love who he was, I’m not sure why I was so bothered by the little things.  He did monster some, almost all of his words devalued me and were hurtful.  It will take days to process what happened.  A woman from his work came up(with her boyfriend) and gave him a hug.  Obviously he has friends and is kind to others, he says it is only me he cannot stand.  Though he also cannot stand FL, and hates it here.  It’s stinking FL.  We have a 5 minute walk to the beach, who could hate that.  But he loved living in OH...is it just me;) He did not walk me to my car, and I know that seems like a small thing, but we were downtown and it was dark, I guess it made me feel like I feel in real life.  Unprotected.  The man I love has turned into a man trying to cause me harm.  I of course hoped for a better outcome. 

Ultimately it does not matter that he will regret this.  That brings no change.  It only matters that he is willing to go through with it.  He is wanting 10 years of alimony for 100 percent of the house.  He would also provide life insurance and we are in talks about SBP insurance on the pension.  He did not seem to realize we will have been married 20 years just before the d.

If I believe it is in my best interests, I will switch from mediation to court in January.  If I contest the divorce, it would be a year long process from then. 

There is a 99.999 percent chance I will be remarried in 10 years.  I started the offer at 15, but am fine with 10 if it stays the offer.  I will not go lower and am willing to take 50/50 on the house if needed.  He cannot bully me on anything as he is not going after the kids, so in that way I feel good. 

He wants me to Nanny the kids during his month next summer, while he works.  It is more likely he will just want them every other weekend like last summer.  And by that I mean less than 24 hours every other week.  I told him we can discuss that next summer as it is not a part of the d.  I do not want to be away from my kids for a month, so I’m sure I would be willing if it happened that way.
.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 07:20:28 AM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Couragedearheart

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #145 on: September 14, 2019, 07:32:20 AM »
Joy,

If it helps....it helped me...so maybe it will help you too. Is it emotional abuse. Yes. We have this idea in our head about abusers...so of course my initial instinct was to black and white the issue....because of course abuse is black and white...right? But when I read the list of emotionally abusive behaviors I see just how many of them I do, or used to do...for me yelling when angry was a hard one to realize it was abuse....I would never intentionally abuse someone...I worried I was a monster. 

So where did I learn to abuse people? Oh of course my family....because that’s what they did...that’s what I saw...and I just thought that was normal because that’s what everyone I knew did....it’s all I had ever seen.

You shouldn’t allow abuse, it should be called out, and boundaries in place to stop it. But I’ll also bet it’s his coping mechanism, he learned it somewhere, so calling it out as abusive behavior is just as important....remember he must be the victim...you have to be the perpetrator....that dynamic doesn’t work if he’s the one doing the abusive behaviors....

So call it out....don’t allow it, and set some boundaries. But know that you don’t have to put him in a black and white, good person bad person box if that upsets you. Separate the person from the behaviors and know that it’s also okay to know that emotional abuse is a learned coping mechanism and if it’s learned it can be unlearned.

For me that looked like, I will not allow myself to be abused. I have to protect myself and s14 first. I can do all this and know that for everyone’s health and safety we need space and distance and that H is acting out what he knows because he doesn’t know any other way to accomplish what he wants. H’s lack of adequate coping mechanism is his responsibility and does not obligate me in any way to either fix or tolerate his wrong behavior.

And there is an emotionally focused tapping videos for anxiety that stopped my panic attacks...so you may want to try some of those and some grounding exercises. Take care of Joy first. ❤️
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Father5

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #146 on: September 14, 2019, 08:27:32 AM »
Hi Joy,

I feel for you as I am in the same boat. I also suffer from anxiety these are few tricks I learned that really helped. I stopped caffeine I know it's tough but it is a cause. Also anything that can being your heart rate up. Even if it's just for a few minutes it will make a world of difference.

Good luck and God Bless you Joy
Together 12 yrs Married 5
5 kids 3- Step (21) (20) (18) Two together ( 8 ) (9)
BD1 March 2018 - I wish I could give you more of what you need
BD2 Aug 2018 - I want a divorce sent by text ILWYBNILWY

O/M Discovered Nov-18

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #147 on: September 14, 2019, 09:03:43 AM »
Courage-I am in processing overload, and will reread your post in the coming days.  I did tell him I feel as if he is trying to harm me.  That at the least I am the mother of his children and should be treated well.  That I think he has been verbally abusive towards me for a year.

He never acted this way before this year.

Father-The idea if getting rid of caffeine is a tough one!  I will think on it!  I can get my heart rate up!  I have been running and doing beach body videos!  Thank You!

Journaling-Different things that were said are coming to my memory.  He says he has wanted a divorce for a long time and the deployment pushed him over the edge.  He said he wants me to be happy, but not with him.  He said, he will struggle when a new man comes into the picture, but more because of the kids.

He said he knows it will be hard for me to find someone else, because we have 4 kids.  He said he has never bad mouthed me to anyone and will not.  He says he does not badmouth me to the kids.  I brought up him badmouthing me to OW1(he said, I didn’t bad mouth you to her, she is like that to everyone, but he did conspire with her against me, he probably does not remember). 

In his other breath he says he will destroy me and take everything I have.  Before he is done there will be no money. That if he gets out of the military, I get no pension(he said it as if he would get out solely for this purpose, a threat, he won’t).  He said I mean nothing to him, he cannot stand me, he would rather spend all of our money on lawyers than look at me.  He said it is all his money, for me to stop saying ours.  He will not help me sell the house, he says he will not let the military move us, or help us move(and then he said he would).  In essence, he could careless what happens to me.  I brought up that I wish he would wait until the end of summer to d me as it would work out better for the kids and I in every way.  He said no. 

He said a whole bunch of other vile things.  He uses so much profanity and always curses God.  He said, where is my God now.  He is not saving you from this.  He is not protecting you.

He also said he hopes we can be civil for the kids.  That he understands it will take me years to forgive.  That when I remarry he would like to get along(I guess with my spouse).  He wants me to be open minded if any of the kids ask to live with him(I told him I will do what I believe is best for the kids). 

He joked around about the last time we were having dinner downtown.  I threw a glass of water in his face at the sushi place.    Not my finest hour.  We were eating outside and it was all very dramatic like the movies.  But, I’m not proud of it.  We never acted like this the first 18 years of our marriage. 
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #148 on: September 14, 2019, 09:22:42 AM »
I still remember my first panic attack. Had no idea what is was.

What I found helped either stop them unfolding if I felt them coming or minimised them sometimes if I had one was counting backwards. When I started it was 5000 lol. Some people try to think of countries beginning with an A or do mental arithmetic. The reason it works it rather wonderfully elegant actually. A panic attack is bc your amygdala has gone Barp, barp, activated your limbic system and has reduced activity in some areas of your brain while flooding your body with adrenaline. Counting activates a different bit of your brain and this seems to balance things out enough.

Obviously belly type breathing helps bc we breathe shallowly in a panic attack or en route to one, but tbh I find counting backwards was my best tool.  :)

Please remember to believe none of what he says and only 50% at most of what he does. You can see the confusion for yourself in this last post. It will drive you crazy trying to make sense of it or try to predict it.

Most of what he says right now is like emotional brain vomit...it simply tells you what he is feeling at a given moment. He will probably not remember most of it later. He lies to you, to others and to himself most of the time. When he is not brain vomiting or lying, he is trying to reinforce a story in his head that allows him to justify his actions. And he doesn't care that you think he is harming you or even the kids so it is pointless to say so....he either feels you deserve it or he simply can't feel it so it doesn't exist to him. Or both. It is really like dealing with a not very bright damaged young teenager. He is fuelled by emotion almost entirely. And tbh he has no real 'plan' no matter what he says, just a series of knee jerk reactions to events and how he feels.

We all know how horrifying it is to see in someone you knew and love/loved. We get it here in a way that RL folks don't unless they have experience of mental illness or serious addiction on their family.

There is a turning point for most of us when we are still trying to talk with them as if they were 'normal', albeit a normal who wants to leave us. Slowly there is a creeping realisation that this is not how it is. Often that is the point when we start to reduce contact bc you can't talk rationally to bonkers and it hurts to keep trying and failing. We start to develop new tactics for how we get things done that need to be done with someone who behaves this way.

And if it helps, from someone who has been in the darkest trenches, there was a time when God was the only one holding me up. My faith has become much stronger, much more real and much more part of me than it was before. My xh abandoned God too along with me, his friends and his old self....but I still pray for him to help my xh heal in whatever way God knows he needs to do. My h's faith and church used to be important to him, more than it was to me actually, and I'm sure that God will pick up if my xh ever wants to chat to him again lol.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 09:29:24 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding JoyTopic starter

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #149 on: September 14, 2019, 02:36:13 PM »
Treasur-I will try the counting backwards.  I do not typically have anxiety problems, but have had several panic attacks in the last year.

I understand he is having an MLC and his words mean little.  My brain understands that.  But regardless of why, he is still saying horrible things.  I wish they did not effect me, but they have.  I cannot think today.  My breathing is still shallow.  I took a nap, but woke up the same.  I am running later when it cools down.

This is happening(the d) and I need time to wrap my head around it.  It is too real now.  I also am upset that he is the father of my children.  They deserve more and better.  I am incredibly disappointed in him.  He has let us all down tremendously.

I understand he is struggling.  That does not change the consequences.  It does not change the outcome.  It is difficult to feel empathy for someone acting so poorly.

I think back to before the deployment.  My youngest was 1 1/2 years old.  He had been incredibly sickly since he was born(way better now).  He took up so much of my time.  It wouldn’t surprise me if my h was unhappy before the deployment.  We had young kids at that point and life was busy always.

The sad thing is.  My kids are so much easier now and we have so much freedom to go on dates and live life.  He couldn’t just weather the storm and see that it was a season.  Instead he created a hurricane.  I keep trying to forgive, it is ongoing. 
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 02:40:00 PM by Finding Joy »
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 10 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Couragedearheart

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #150 on: September 14, 2019, 02:54:33 PM »
Joy,

You are safe.
Nothing other than words has happening right now.
You have options and there will be people whose job it is to help you with those options when you get to that bridge.
You must only deal with what must happen for Joy today.
That’s it. That’s all.
Just today.
You are incredibly strong and have proved that to yourself day after day, year over year.
You have survived 100% of the challenges life has thrown at you.
Take a breath.
Center yourself.
Do some things that let you feel your 5 senses.
Focus only on that moment and sensations.
You are not required to respond or react, at this moment.
You don’t have to wrap your head around it all at once.
Just be here, be present, and be kind to yourself.
We will all be here in the morning and help you sort it with a clear head.
❤️❤️❤️
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 02:56:38 PM by Couragedearheart »
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline beyondblessed

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #151 on: September 14, 2019, 06:23:53 PM »
Joy, you hit the nail on the head ..it was a temporary season,not a permanent situation.   They bail like cowards at the first sign of discomfort thinking they deserve more or better.  Problem is, you don't just chuck a decades long relationship for some temporary relief and think everything is going to pick up where its was left, if they should ever regain their full mental capacity.   The damage is far and wide and God bless those who can never forget, but forgive enough to still be open to letting them back in.  I'm certainly not one of them.

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Finding Joy in the midst of uncertainty.
« Reply #152 on: September 16, 2019, 05:56:06 AM »
And this thread has run its season... Time for a new one FJ

New Thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11105.0
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 02:30:15 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 56
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Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

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