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Author Topic: My Story Darkness My Old Friend

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My Story Darkness My Old Friend
OP: September 09, 2019, 12:28:34 PM
Hi, I've not been on here for a few years.  I'd fully intended to come back on here to update my story thinking that it would be pretty positive.  I'd finally managed to divorce my H back in Spring of 2015, after 3 years of trying to unhook him from me.  On my journey to that point I'd realised that my H was abusive, controlling and that I was in fact gay.  I realise that might sound like I had my own MLC but I didn't - I had simply got into an extremely controlling/abusive relationship with my H that didn't allow me to explore my own identity.  My H definitely went through an MLC but he was a pretty toxic person for our entire R so it was eventually an easy decision for me to D.

Towards the end of 2015 I felt I was ready to date.  I met a woman on a dating website - she was funny, kind, and we got along easily.  After 2 years she proposed and we were married last Spring.  She turned 40 a few months ago and after we got back from our honeymoon (postponed to this year as we went to Southeast Asia and our Spring is the best time to go) she started to pull away, was irritable and tired.  She was clearly having an EA with an OW - the friend who we visited on the way back from our honeymoon.  This friend is the same age, incredibly successful and rich (which appeals to my W who is also pretty successful and a high earner) married with 3 small children and is clearly having some kind of MLC herself and is a mess. They talk on the phone for hours - both drinking excessively - in completely different time zones so at all hours of the day and night for each of them.  OW wants to leave her H and I think my W has decided that she's in love with this OW and wants to rescue her.  Since this OW lives on the other side of the world it may just be an EA but they did have the opportunity to do something when I was stuck in the hotel with a stomach bug.

BD came when I forced the issue by trying to find out why my W was pulling away from me  - no intimacy or communication - and what we could do to get things back on track.  She said that this had happened in a previous R but her story changed from minute to minute to fit whatever narrative she was going for.  I asked her if she was depressed and was told, "That wouldn't happen to me."  :o  So confirmation that this is MLC.  In the last few days she told me that she "isn't feeling it" and "doesn't want to lead me on".  Since I've such great experience with MLC here I've been able to be pretty calm about it - not reacting, setting boundaries for myself.  I've left our home temporarily to get away from the craziness of the MLC-er.

I didn't expect to be back here, although I'm not sure why - it does seem like this MLC thing is absolutely everywhere.

x

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#1: September 09, 2019, 01:08:12 PM
Hello CB.

Nice to read you. Sorry you're back with not so nice news.

More than one LBS have two MLCer spouses, Ursa being one of them.

If I read it right, your wife told you this has happened in a previous relationship of hers. It may not be MLC. She may have some other issue, or some other matter along with MLC.

Not everything is MLC. Regardless, do you want to remain married or to divorce? Is there any point in standing/waiting for whatever is going to sort it itself out? You have been there before and this new marriage is very recent.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#2: September 09, 2019, 02:02:40 PM
CB!! I've often thought of you and hoped you were doing well. It sounds like YOU are, but I'm so very sorry that your new R is experiencing the "epidemic". :( Meeting MLCers left and right myself, so I do have to agree. Either I'm a magnet or it's everywhere.

Big hugs on this journey!
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#3: September 09, 2019, 02:40:31 PM
Hi Cherryblossum.
I’m fairly new (BD was a year ago yesterday) so I can’t really offer much advice. But I can sympathise and ask the rhetorical ‘what is with all these people?!’ It sure does appear to be an epidemic.

Whilst I won’t offer advice I will comment that I wonder if your W, rather than (or as well as) having a MLC is a limerence addict? You say she said this has happened in a previous relationship, and you guys haven’t been together too many years. Maybe she’s one that, once limerence fades, thinks love is done (can’t transition to mature love) and she runs off looking for that limerent feeling? I’m not sure this theory will be terribly helpful (and may be completely off base) but I just thought I’d throw it out there. Either way, I’m so sorry you’re going through this again. It’s debilitating once. I can’t imagine twice.
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OW (45) - he met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#4: September 09, 2019, 06:15:01 PM
Saw your name and checked in. I´m sorry that you thought you´d made it to the other shore only to find yourself in a familiar scenario of gaslighting. Did you ever share the MLC experience with your W? If so, do you think she could see the parallels? This other woman is probably using your W as her relief valve and fantasy of escape. If you think it´s worth waiting, you could wait it out and let her see that she is the relief valve, not a permanent relationship for the other woman. In the meantime, you know the drill- self care is key.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#5: September 10, 2019, 12:11:59 AM
Good to hear from you R2T, Anjae and FTT and nice to meet you Evermore (although I wish none of us were in this position -obviously),  - I hope you're all doing well.

I'm devastated but I'm stronger now so will at least be able to navigate more easily this time.  It sure is an epidemic.  I'm seeing it everywhere too.  Not sure if that's just an age thing or if it's more prevalent.

Interesting point Anjae and Evermore about whether it may not be MLC  As I pick away at our R I am exploring that question myself.

Her Rs appear to typically last 3 to 4 years.  She told me that  the intimacy faded in a previous R with X.  When I asked her about this on another occasion she said it wasn't X it was Y.  The next time she changed it back to being X which was a relationship around 10 years ago.  Her last R ended because her ex (who she was engaged to) was domestically abusing her.  She had said that this abuse took the form of raging (not physical violence towards her but smashing things up).  She recently changed the story to say that this ex used her depression as a weapon but didn't really go into too much detail.  I had explained my previous R to her but when we've been talking lately and I've been saying that the behaviour is similar to my ex she gets very angry although she called me by her ex's name (the one who used depression as a weapon) and said it was just a slip of the tongue  ::) 


The evidence for MLC is that she's bought a sports car recently (calling it her MLC car), is obsessed with money - worrying that we won't have enough for retirement, forgetting/losing things, drinking excessively, smoking and then exercising, buying gadgets, talking about getting cosmetic procedures and generally worrying about her appearance, being reckless - she's driven after a heavy drinking session when she would've clearly been over the limit, overtly flirty with women - straight ones.

I've moved back to my home city and am going to look for work here.  I can't stay in the same place as my W as she's pretty unkind and it wasn't good for my mental health to be around her.  She messaged me on Sunday to ask if I wanted to talk on Mon.  I asked what about and she said "about what we do next" and I said I needed to take some time to look at my options and I'd be back in touch.  She messaged me yesterday to say that "there's no reason for you to have to change everything right now.  You can come back if you want to.  I know you' are hurting and hate that I am the cause."  :o  I haven't replied.....
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M: 49
W: 40
Married 1 year together 3.5 years
No kids but we have dogs
BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#6: September 10, 2019, 12:25:30 AM
Like others, cherry, I am so sorry that you are experiencing this kind of chaos for a second time. But as you obviously know from how you are behaving, in a way whether it is MLC or depression or a character pattern doesn't change the need for boundaries to protect you from unacceptable behaviour. I imagine as things unfold you will reach your own judgment about the 'cause' but meanwhile it sounds as if you are doing all the sane sensible things to protect yourself from the effects.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#7: September 10, 2019, 07:13:54 AM
Hi Cherry,

I'm so sorry that you find yourself walking the MLC path once again.  Starting your journey with eyes wide open isn't much comfort and I do hope you remember that this is her crisis and nothing you've done - not that it makes any of this more palatable.  Take good care of you.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#8: September 11, 2019, 11:40:44 AM
Thank you Treasur and DCD - I'm doing all the right things - setting and keeping boundaries.  I feel more in control this time around.
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M: 49
W: 40
Married 1 year together 3.5 years
No kids but we have dogs
BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#9: September 11, 2019, 05:55:40 PM
Quote
She messaged me on Sunday to ask if I wanted to talk on Mon.  I asked what about and she said "about what we do next" and I said I needed to take some time to look at my options and I'd be back in touch.

Yes, you are handling this like a pro.

Sorry this is happening.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#10: September 12, 2019, 04:38:28 AM
Hi Cherry,

Well, when I saw your name, I too was hoping for a bit more positive news... Mid-Lifers - You can't live with 'em and you can't hang 'em by their toes from the ceiling fan either....

Quote from: Cherry Blossom
She messaged me yesterday to say that "there's no reason for you to have to change everything right now.  You can come back if you want to.  I know you' are hurting and hate that I am the cause."  :o  I haven't replied.....
She hates that she is the cause of your hurting? What does she intend to actually DO about it then?  You can come back if you want to? To what? More of the same behaviour?  You are worth more than that....

Through my ears it sounds like Blah Blah Blah Blah


If she starts matching actions to words and comes up with some concrete ideas HOW to move forward, then she'd be saying things worth the time and effort to say them...
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#11: September 12, 2019, 06:32:58 AM
Thanks Reinventing - I'm absolutely faking it right now but trying my best.

UrsaMajor - I'm sorry not to read something more positive news for you too  :-\  Yeah, I totally get that she is hating what she's done to me but only because it makes her feel bad and she wants that to stop so that she can enjoy her time with whoever it is she's sleeping with.  She also told me that "I am her best friend but that's not enough for her".

She's asked me to let her know what I expect in financial settlement so I think she's quite happy to make this all official.  SIL told me that she asked my W to tell their parents in person when they return from their holiday so she'll do that this Sunday.  All very matter of fact  ::)
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M: 49
W: 40
Married 1 year together 3.5 years
No kids but we have dogs
BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#12: September 14, 2019, 06:23:09 AM
Just journaling and I will catch up on more people’s threads.


I’m sitting in a hire car filled with my clothes and most treasured possessions. It was hard to go home today and see W’s 2 dogs (I’ve taken my dog away with me) - they were so pleased to see me.
Before I left to drive to our home I messaged SIL. I said it felt like people are normalising the sitch and that she maybe wouldn’t be so blasé if it were her H. I told her I love my W but she’s changed and hinted that my W could be depressed. The response was “whatever my opinion is is irrelevant. We can’t tell people how to live their lives” 😕 Makes me wonder if SIL is going through an MLC or maybe she just can’t fathom it and is protecting her family. She hasn’t asked how I feel though. She’s told me how I must be feeling but never actually asked if I’m ok. Feels like she’s shut me down.

I had sent a friend a text earlier to say I hoped my W would come back and be the kind loving woman she’s was. My friend replied saying that I hate to say it but she wasn’t always kind and didn’t love you like you loved her” and i don’t know if that’s true or not. So confused but maybe that is how it was.


I’ve stopped off in
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When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves - Viktor Frankl

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#13: September 14, 2019, 09:36:11 AM
Quote
“whatever my opinion is is irrelevant. We can’t tell people how to live their lives”

As cold as that statement is right now, it's basically true. I have a friend dipping into MLC, and though I've counseled him, I have to detach from any of his choices as that's his free will. I do accept that even though I may have a bit of influence, there is a cutoff to how much I can actually persuade him out of doing. And if I cut him off, it would likely not impact his choices.

I think you've got a good read on your SIL and how she's not that invested in your side. I'd encourage you to not bang your head against the wall trying to get her to see your point or act on your behalf. Sounds like you've got good friends around you who are prepared to lend shoulders and send truth darts to make you really consider it all from all angles, which is a godsend in itself. Focus is best spent on them.

Big hugs and it breaks my heart about the pups.  :'( People make such selfish decisions without thinking about how it effects everyone, not just them. I've been very grateful that my xH took no pets when he left, but the ones he did truly never stopped grieving his loss.
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"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#14: September 14, 2019, 10:44:43 AM
As cold as that statement is right now, it's basically true.

Yeah I know you're right.  I just needed to send that final message to her. She hasn't asked how I am even so I guess that says it all.

I do have very good friends and my Sister and her H have also been a great support.


Big hugs and it breaks my heart about the pups.  :'( People make such selfish decisions without thinking about how it effects everyone, not just them. I've been very grateful that my xH took no pets when he left, but the ones he did truly never stopped grieving his loss.
I know - I may not see them again as I'm pretty sure my W is seeing someone about 400 miles away from our home and her dogs may have to go live with her family.  I hope so anyway because I don't think she'll be capable of looking after them.  I'm lucky enough to have a friend who is offering to help me look after my dog when I get a job in my home town.  My W works from home so she was generally at home with all of them.  On my current wage I can't afford a dog sitter so to have that help is a massive positive and I feel very fortunate in all of this mess to have good things happen  :)


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M: 49
W: 40
Married 1 year together 3.5 years
No kids but we have dogs
BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#15: September 15, 2019, 11:44:41 AM
Just journaling.....

My W messaged me last night to ask if I was available to speak today.  I asked what she wanted to talk about.  She said, "You've been gone a week.  You're talking about moving on calling a solicitor.  Shouldn't we have some sort of conversation?"  I had been in the middle of sending her my financials - payments I want back (she went on a bit of a spending spree with my dad's inheritance).  My figure is 3 times what she initially suggested (as she has fog in her brain and can't remember all the money she's burned through) so now she's going to see a solicitor next week.  I feel like I've been here before.  My ex H said that too but it was just a stalling tactic.  Right now I would stand for my marriage but I can't do that in our home (as it is her house).  My property is over 100 miles away and I need the money to move back there but also it's mine

I stupidly made contact with my W this morning to tell her that I know she's been seeing someone.  Ok, I actually said the word "cheating".  Stupid me!  I do have evidence of the affair now and I suspect that OW has been the reason my W's worked tirelessly over the past few months to ensure that her Facebook feed made it look like we're not together - any pics we are in together she's made sure we're not standing next to each other.  That's been one of the hardest things to take - being erased. 

My W then messaged that it was pretty early to be getting so worked up and she assumed I'd not been to sleep  ??? I guess that's a window into her world as it was 7:30am.  I told her I was up with my dog.  The thing is I've actually been taking very good care of myself - healthy food, not much alcohol and plenty of exercise.  If it wasn't for the MLC crap I'd say I was loving life  ;D

Just updating my W's previous R - that lasted 6 years (in all this mess I'd forgotten that).  She said that she broke off their engagement because she was being domestically abused - her ex "used depression as a weapon" - is that a thing?  I have never doubted this until now but I guess we all look back and doubt things...  The fact it lasted 6 years could point to her not normally just bailing after the honeymoon phase is over, but I'm still undecided on that.

My W also asked me to stop sending weird messages to her sister.  I said they weren't weird but it's interesting that SIL thought so but not to worry - I won't message her again.

Her final message was to say an absolute NO to my financial settlement figure and that "after your opener this morning and your nonsense earlier in the week" (can we say pot, kettle) that she had nothing more to say to me and that she will talk to me after she's seen a solicitor.

And breathe……

My W also said recently on a Whatsapp group that I was part of that this song was Amazing - and was obviously trying to make a point:  I Forgot You Existed by Taylor Swift -

How many days did I spend
Thinkin' 'bout how did me wrong, wrong, wrong
Lived in the shade you were throwin'
'Til all of my sunshine was gone, gone, gone
And I couldn't get away from you
In my feelings more than Drake, so yeah
Your name on my lips, tongue tied
Free rent, livin' in my mind
But then something happened one magical night
I forgot that you existed
And I thought that it would kill me, but it didn't
And it was so nice
So peaceful and quiet
I forgot that you existed
It isn't love, it isn't hate
It's just indifference
I forgot that you
Got out some popcorn
As soon as my rep starting going down, down, down
Laughed on the schoolyard
As soon as I tripped up and hit the ground, ground, ground
And I would've stuck around for ya
Would've fought the whole town, so yeah
Would've been right there front row
Even if nobody came to your show
But you showed who you are, then one magical night
I forgot that you existed
And I thought that it would kill me, but it didn't
And it was so nice
So peaceful and quiet
I forgot that you existed
It isn't love, it isn't hate
It's just indifference
I forgot that you
Sent me a clear message
Taught me some hard lessons
I just forget what they were
It's all just a blur
I forgot that you existed
And I thought that it would kill me, but it didn't
And it was so nice
So peaceful and quiet
I forgot that you existed
I did, I did, I did
It isn't hate, it's just indifference
It isn't love, it isn't hate
It's just indifference (so yeah)
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M: 49
W: 40
Married 1 year together 3.5 years
No kids but we have dogs
BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#16: September 15, 2019, 03:19:16 PM
whatever my opinion is is irrelevant. We can’t tell people how to live their lives”

Agree with Ready2, it is true. That was of the very first things my lawyer told me. We can't tell people how to live their lives or with whom. Just like we cannot make them stay with us.

Right now I would stand for my marriage ...

May I ask why? Your wife relationship history is not rosy, she told different stories about her last relationship, you have no idea how long her crisis, if it is a crisis or just MLC, is going to last.

Ins't adultery a reason for divorce in the UK? Or does it not apply to Scotland, if you're living in Scotland.

If it was me, but that is just me, I would be hiring the best divorce lawyer I could afford and if she is cheating and the law allows for it, cite adultery as the reason.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#17: September 18, 2019, 01:47:20 PM
May I ask why? Your wife relationship history is not rosy, she told different stories about her last relationship, you have no idea how long her crisis, if it is a crisis or just MLC, is going to last.

I'm still trying to figure out if this is MLC or if this is a pattern of behaviour.  Her last R lasted 6 years.  A lot of her recent behaviour appears to fit MLC but I'm only ten days into this and picking over the past to make sense of it.  If it's a pattern of behaviour I won't stick around.


Ins't adultery a reason for divorce in the UK? Or does it not apply to Scotland, if you're living in Scotland.
You have to prove the adultery which is quite difficult (or at least there's a substantial cost involved) but that's something I'll ask my lawyer when I see her next week.





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M: 49
W: 40
Married 1 year together 3.5 years
No kids but we have dogs
BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#18: September 20, 2019, 09:50:49 AM
After my W saying she was going to see a lawyer today she just messaged me (at 5:30pm) to let me know that "I didn't see John today"  I have no idea who John is but assumed it was the lawyer.  I asked what happened and she said he had to move the date because of a court session.  Surely they would've told her earlier in the day that this was the case.  I had to ask when her next appointment is and she said "Hopefully Monday afternoon".  Let's see.......  ::)

Pretty sure she's spent the week in London with her OW but I did quite a lot of detaching yesterday which has allowed me perspective to know for sure that I'm much better off away from my W and her chaos of a life right now.  I don't feel jealousy about OW because she is getting the worst version of the person I fell in love with.  And if it was all an illusion then I feel I'm well on my way to GAL. My social life has improved 100% since I went back to my home city :)
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M: 49
W: 40
Married 1 year together 3.5 years
No kids but we have dogs
BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#19: September 20, 2019, 10:47:07 AM
What about you, are you going to see a lawyer? Wouldn't it make sense, if you already don't, having your own lawyer?

Who knows what, and when, is your wife going to do.

And if it was all an illusion then I feel I'm well on my way to GAL. My social life has improved 100% since I went back to my home city :)

Happy to know your social life has improved 100% since you went back home.  :)
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#20: September 20, 2019, 12:41:38 PM
Hi Anjae  - oh god, yes, I have a lawyer - same one when I D my H so I know and trust her.  I'm seeing her on Tuesday so will find out where I stand regarding the money and what I should be doing.  I don't plan on waiting to see what my W does - she may not even have an appointment with a lawyer and just be happy to drag this out as she spends more and more money for and with OW.  My only concern is that, as with my last MLC experience, it was an expensive battle to achieve anything.  Nothing I can do but move forwards though.

Thank you - it feels very good to be back with my friends and family :)
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BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#21: September 20, 2019, 04:20:30 PM
Hi Anjae  - oh god, yes, I have a lawyer - same one when I D my H so I know and trust her.  I'm seeing her on Tuesday so will find out where I stand regarding the money and what I should be doing. 

Excellent.  :)

I don't plan on waiting to see what my W does - she may not even have an appointment with a lawyer and just be happy to drag this out as she spends more and more money for and with OW. 

We know some MLCers drag things out while they spend more and more money with OW/OM.

My only concern is that, as with my last MLC experience, it was an expensive battle to achieve anything.  Nothing I can do but move forwards though.

That is the sad part, lawyes and legalitties cost money. No, nothing you can do other than move foward.

Thank you - it feels very good to be back with my friends and family :)

You're welcome.  :)
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#22: September 25, 2019, 05:53:31 AM
Things seem to be moving very fast.  Over the last few days my W kept messaging me saying she can't believe I left and how she thought we'd at least talk and that it's all happening so quickly.  She's not back-tracking at all but these are the things she's saying.  The conversation went round in circles until I finally messaged to say "You have my number, just phone me if you want to". 

She said she'd call me after being to see a solicitor last Friday.  She messaged at 5:30pm to say her solicitor had been called to court so she didn't see him.  Then it was going to be Monday but she couldn't talk because our friend (who was only supposed to be lodging with us short-term but had stayed for the entire time we were living together - which I'm sure didn't help our situation) was in the house and it wasn't fair to talk when she was there.  My W has a 4-bedroom house and she also has a car where she's been calling OW from so just putting it off.  I don't know why.  She finally called yesterday.  She sounded extremely tense - told me about 4 times that she's not a d!ck and she's being nice and that she's sad but understands that I'll be way more hurt about this than she is  :o She said that the last 2 years with me were great - so not the 1.5 years before?  but also if they were great why would you want it to end?  ::)  And of course that we are best friends...

We discussed what she would pay me back (of my dad's inheritance) and she also said she'd return the diamond bracelet I gave her for her birthday.  That hurt quite a lot.  I'd given her the bracelet because at the time she asked me to marry her I didn't have enough money to buy her an engagement ring so when my dad's inheritance came through I got her that.  It was quite symbolic, for me at least  :'(  I guess at least if I need to I can sell it.  I felt quite calm but was also pretty frosty.  It's just too raw for me to muster up any gentler feelings than that and ended the call with "I hope you're enjoying your freedom and your new g/f" and hung up.  She sent me a message to say "Sorry you think I'm seeing someone.  I'm not."

She changed her name back to her maiden name on Linkedin.  I think that's because OW works with her.  It feels like I'm being erased which I guess I am.
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BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#23: September 25, 2019, 08:36:39 AM
I'm so sorry, CB. The juxtaposition of wanting to quickly end things with being shocked you left.  ::) ???  So familiar. I'm sure that doesn't make it emotionally easier to deal with. Big hugs.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#24: September 25, 2019, 02:26:58 PM
I'm sorry, CB.

I understand the bracelet hurst, but you are right, if you have it, you can sell it.

To me, it seems more like your wife is the sort that tires and jumps to another person when the shine of a new relationship wears off. Not that it makes it any less painful.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#25: September 26, 2019, 05:37:12 AM
Thank you Anjae and R2T - It is a rollercoaster of emotions but I do think my past experience is helping me process it much better this time round.

I think you may be right Anjae.  I suppose I don't want to believe it but it's a bit of a flashing neon sign.  I suspect my W may suffer from recurring depression that she refuses to seek help for and when in the depths of despair she either looks for or is easily turned towards something that gives her that high again - a rush of endorphins.  This is why, even though I feel immense grief at the end of our R, I feel no jealousy towards the OW.  She is not winning a prize.  Firstly she got together with someone who was only just/still married.  At some point she'll experience what I did - the cheating or at least the anger, the irritability and the making you feel like you're walking on eggshells.  I don't miss that.  I keep reminding myself how it was for the past few months and I'm grateful my friend told me to pack my bags.  It was toxic.

I have made more plans for my future.  Hoping my dad's house will sell and I will have some financial security and make a new life for myself and my wee dog here in my home town.  I will finish writing my book, in peace and quiet (away from someone who kept pressuring me to write but didn't give me the headspace to do that in).

I thought I'd done so much work on myself but when I look back I realise that I should've asked more questions about my W's R history and taken things more slowly before committing to moving and marrying.  I know that each of us is always a work-in-progress - no matter what age we are - but I am disappointed in myself for not learning obvious lessons and ignoring things that were so important for me.  I must pay much more attention to my intuition and what I need in life.  I won't be jumping into another R any time soon.
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BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#26: September 26, 2019, 08:17:11 AM
You're welcome, CB.

... It is a rollercoaster of emotions but I do think my past experience is helping me process it much better this time round.

Glad to know your past experience is helping you.

I thought I'd done so much work on myself but when I look back I realise that I should've asked more questions about my W's R history and taken things more slowly before committing to moving and marrying.  I know that each of us is always a work-in-progress - no matter what age we are - but I am disappointed in myself for not learning obvious lessons and ignoring things that were so important for me.

You know what, it is OK. You come back here for support, you know you it may had made sense to had ask more questions, you have plans for your life. You know you need to be more careful in the next relationship/marriage.

If the relationship had turned toxic, you are better off without it, painful it is.

Hugs.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#27: September 29, 2019, 07:57:13 PM
Hi cherry Blossom. Unfortunately have been through the whole MLC thing before this current relationship and know how painful it is.  You are right that you may have missed some red flags and that your W may also have a pattern of this type of relationship.

It's possible the best thing for you is to get the financial settlement over with, and be happy that you didn't lose more.

I just can't imagine myself getting through the past six years of my xH's MLC, having a new relationship and that ending too.  I would be much more likely to walk away faster from the newer relationship, having the knowledge of what you are about to endure, than to wait for her to come back to you which given her history, is sadly, unlikely.

Eventually we just have to be selfish about our choices. I wish you all the best.

((((((Hugs))))))
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#28: September 30, 2019, 11:24:36 AM
Thanks Anjae and Savvy

You are both right - my priority is to stay away from my W and end the R.  I am working on that.  I need the financial settlement to move on.  My W appears to be stalling on that.  I asked her for an update today - and from what she said I'd say that she either hasn't sought legal advice or has completely misunderstood the process (I'd put money on it being the former).  She told me her lawyer is busy working out how to get the money  and will be in touch when he has the funds  ::)  That's not what lawyers do.  They advise.  They don't find money unless of course he just has to point to her bank account and say, "there it is" as she pretends to look everywhere but where he's pointing....

So here I am again in very familiar territory.  I don't have the same anxiety though which is good.  I still cry - sometimes sob - but I am letting my W go - as much as you can after just 3 weeks (although in reality it's been more like 5 months that she's been off with me). 

Reading about the differences between Exit affairs and MLC affairs on Hearts Blessings - https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/the-difference-between-an-exit-affair-and-the-midlife-crisis-affair/ -has helped.  I still don't know for sure what has happened to my W but reading about the options is helping me detach.  MLC or a serial cheater doesn't much matter just now as I GAL.

Part of my process is to imagine that my W will wake up at some point and realise what she's done and come back to being the loving person I first met.  I realise that she might not but for now that's something I imagine might happen and sometimes the idea of something will get you to the next stepping stone even if it is the most unlikely thing to happen.
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I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#29: September 30, 2019, 02:50:40 PM
I need the financial settlement to move on.  My W appears to be stalling on that.

If your wife is having a MLC, it is nothing new, is it?  ::)

Her lawyer is looking for funds... right... ::)
 
The main difference between an Exit affair and MLC is that an Exit affair does not involve the person wanting back, MLC tends to. There are other differences, like the person in an Exit affair cutting ties and not caring about the spouse, while a MLCer will try to control the LBS, etc.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#30: October 01, 2019, 09:06:52 AM
If your wife is having a MLC, it is nothing new, is it?  ::)

Nope - nothing new at all about that  - all so predictable!
 
The main difference between an Exit affair and MLC is that an Exit affair does not involve the person wanting back, MLC tends to. There are other differences, like the person in an Exit affair cutting ties and not caring about the spouse, while a MLCer will try to control the LBS, etc.

The only ways that she appears to be trying to control me are financially which just means she's putting off parting with money.  And, if I'm in touch with any of her family or friends - those who were originally hers.  She is extremely angry about that - telling me that it's embarrassing - yes that's what's embarrassing about this situation ;D

My friend told me that my W posted on FB that she's going to do Stoptober (where you give up alcohol for October) and was asking people to donate £5 if they thought she could do it.  I mean, that's a whole month without her beloved alcohol.  I've not known her to go more than 2 days straight without a drink and she was pretty irritable when she did that.  Hopefully the charity aren't relying on her contribution  ;D
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BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#31: October 01, 2019, 03:14:49 PM
Hope your wife allows for financial resolution as soon as possible. So annoying when financial and/or legal stuff gets stuck.

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#32: October 08, 2019, 10:28:02 AM
Hope your wife allows for financial resolution as soon as possible. So annoying when financial and/or legal stuff gets stuck.

Well of course she isn't Anjae  ::)  That would make it far too easy.  She refuses to pay me. Apparently she's been advised that she shouldn't give me my money in case it demonstrates that I'm financially dependent on her  :o  At least now I know what her narrative is to her flying monkeys* - that I am trying to extract money from her, and not that she won't cough up what she owes me.

She spouted a lot of venom today through messages whilst telling me that she's been kind to me.  I've gone back to NC and emailed my lawyer for advice on how to proceed.


*I only just came across this terminology and it really is a good description for the enablers of narcissists/MLC-ers
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_monkeys_(popular_psychology)
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BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#33: October 08, 2019, 07:18:49 PM
I ALWAYS knew if I was dealing with monster that there was no point trying to engage them at all. 

Your NC decision is a great one.  Allow the lawyers to speak for you, she is too far gone in her self hatred which she obviously thinks relates to you :o

Meditation may help you during this time, you need to remain calm but ready for any ridiculous demand that comes your way.
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I hope you ache in regret as the truth hits you like a bullet and you find yourself replying: ""She loved me more than anyone else in the entire world and I tried to destroy her."  He failed by the way. 
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#34: October 09, 2019, 03:23:54 PM
Good grief. She is were the bused don't run.

Hope your lawyer is able to help you.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#35: October 11, 2019, 06:16:16 AM
Thanks for stopping by Savvy and Anjae

I ALWAYS knew if I was dealing with monster that there was no point trying to engage them at all. 

Exactly.  She's been messaging me a LOT recently. The most recent one was that she'd noticed that one of my friends has unfriended her and did this mean that I also wanted to unfriend her.  She asked, "do you want to remain long-term friends or just ditch me"  :o  I wasn't even tempted to reply.  She later tried again and said that if I didn't reply she'd assume that was what I would do....  ::)


Meditation may help you during this time, you need to remain calm but ready for any ridiculous demand that comes your way.
Yes, good shout Savvy - Anjae had posted a link to the Deepak Chopra meditation series on her thread and so I've signed up for that and a friend just posted a link to a 10 minute Tai Chi video on FB.  I've always fancied doing this and it's been so calming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_4TNcIfTL0&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2WAjHywkMbXXi5zHZn_6fP_pQhdudd6Ic3H3FEnVQIdSWN2BRbZBlViTM

Yesterday I received an email from my W's lawyer - she instructed him to draw up a separation agreement but didn't attach that.  I agreed that he could send it to me (and I will have my lawyer review it) and he replied to say it would take him 2 weeks to do this.  So more stalling but I expected that....
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#36: October 11, 2019, 09:44:45 AM
LOL! At least it's all predictable. Yes, decide now if we will be BFFs.  ::) Certainly the highest priority while denying you funds and drafting separation agreements.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#37: October 11, 2019, 10:43:04 AM
Of course there will be more delay. Phew...

Yes, lets decide now if we want to be BFF. Right...
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#38: October 12, 2019, 06:12:37 AM
Thanks R2T and Anjae

LOL! At least it's all predictable. Yes, decide now if we will be BFFs.  ::) Certainly the highest priority while denying you funds and drafting separation agreements.
Exactly! Let me just take time out from moving between friends homes, job hunting and all the other stuff I have to do as a result of my W wanting to end things and think about who I want to BFFs with. 

I noticed today that she has unfriended me.  I don't feel that bad about it.  There is the fact that she's effectively erased our time together but that's on her.  It's healthier for me not to be able to check her timeline so she's probably done me a favour.

I was with friends last night and they were surprised how well I'm doing and I have to say that I feel happy - content even.  I'm beginning to wonder if my W is having an MLC that it started before we met.  Maybe I'm one of those OWs?   :o  That is a horrible thought but I guess it's possible.  She was engaged to her ex and the whole story behind their breakup doesn't quite add up.  My W had a short temper (over tiny things) and she would get very angry whilst driving  I didn't like it and she said that her ex gave her a lot of grief about it.  But her ex was allegedly prone to angry outbursts.  So my W was angry but her ex was angry at her being angry.  The more I pick at how she painted her ex the more surreal an image it creates.
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I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#39: October 12, 2019, 09:25:35 AM
I was with friends last night and they were surprised how well I'm doing and I have to say that I feel happy - content even.

Excellent!  :)

I'm beginning to wonder if my W is having an MLC that it started before we met.  Maybe I'm one of those OWs?   :o  That is a horrible thought but I guess it's possible. 

Could be. Not a nice thought, but it does happen.

She was engaged to her ex and the whole story behind their breakup doesn't quite add up.  My W had a short temper (over tiny things) and she would get very angry whilst driving  I didn't like it and she said that her ex gave her a lot of grief about it.  But her ex was allegedly prone to angry outbursts.  So my W was angry but her ex was angry at her being angry.  The more I pick at how she painted her ex the more surreal an image it creates.

Any reason why you got together with someone whose engagement had just broke, MLC or no MLC? It is not a very healthy way to start a new relationship, is it?
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#40: October 12, 2019, 09:49:47 AM
Quote
Any reason why you got together with someone whose engagement had just broke, MLC or no MLC? It is not a very healthy way to start a new relationship, is it?

In CB's defense here, there is no one in our age group that doesn't come with a little baggage. It's more important I think where CB is in terms of being ready for a commitment than any timeline for a potential mate, and how the connection is between them. That's not to say there aren't red flags - if someone breaks up one day and is ready to hook up the next, sure, that seems like a rebound! But there are people out there that are just more frequently in and out of relationships. In some ways it's scarier to meet people who haven't had serious relationships or who cling on to an ex.

Quote
   
Quote
I'm beginning to wonder if my W is having an MLC that it started before we met.  Maybe I'm one of those OWs?   :o  That is a horrible thought but I guess it's possible.


Could be. Not a nice thought, but it does happen.

It's great that you are at a point where you're able to be objective about it if this is the case. It's insight for those looking on too that even when an "OW" (hate calling you that!) is a great person, the discard happens quickly and bizarrely, the lies they potentially tell about their exes start to crumble and people can see the truth, and the cycle just continues. Everything we talk about here in terms of the alienator relationships.

So happy you are finding contentment, and excited to see where you go from here! This certainly doesn't have to stop you from living your best life.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#41: October 12, 2019, 10:00:22 AM
True, but someone just out of a broken engagement or relationship is never a good option, is it? I am talking for us. Some people may just be in and out of relationships all the time, but that, to a point, is a red flag, isn't it?

Maybe it is just me, who does not like to be involved with serial relationshipers.

In some ways it's scarier to meet people who haven't had serious relationships or who cling on to an ex.

It is, but having had a serious relationships(s) and contantly being in one are different things. At least to me they are.

Not sure if OW/OM applies when the engagment was already broken.
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Re: Darkness My Old Friend
#42: October 12, 2019, 12:01:53 PM
Thanks Anjae and R2T


Any reason why you got together with someone whose engagement had just broke, MLC or no MLC? It is not a very healthy way to start a new relationship, is it?
I met someone whose history appeared to be genuine.  My W told me that her R had been abusive and that she had spent months being unhappy before ending things.  Her friends and family all confirmed that it wasn't a healthy R - that her ex was volatile and often mentioning that it was lovely to see my W with someone so kind and caring.  If it was all lies I was not only being manipulated by my W I was being manipulated by her closest allies/flying monkeys.  I related to someone being in an abusive R because I had too.  When my W told me early on in the R that she was falling for me and was worried because she was not long out of her last R I said I wasn't expecting anything from her and I really was living my own life and enjoying my freedom from my ex.  I didn't just jump in.  I asked lots of questions.  It's now that this has happened to me that I see potential patterns that might indicate that all was not what it seemed.  Does it make me feel horrible if I am an OW?  Yes, absolutely - if (and that is an if) I am then it's not a title I wanted or sought out.  I have values, I'm intelligent and would NEVER knowingly get into a R with someone who was cheating or deceptive but that is the thing about manipulative people - they tell you what they want you to hear and if you're empathic and they're a real piece of work you can be sucked in.

In CB's defense here, there is no one in our age group that doesn't come with a little baggage.
  Exactly!  I've known people who are on their 2nd divorce (like me) who would be perceived to be some car-crash of person.  It's just not always that black and white.  As I say I don't know for sure if I am an OW but if I am I can categorically state that I have been manipulated - along with the help of all of my W's friends and family.


It's great that you are at a point where you're able to be objective about it if this is the case. It's insight for those looking on too that even when an "OW" (hate calling you that!) is a great person, the discard happens quickly and bizarrely, the lies they potentially tell about their exes start to crumble and people can see the truth, and the cycle just continues. Everything we talk about here in terms of the alienator relationships.
I think I have always felt slightly uncomfortable with the OW being perceived as someone who has a level of control.  What I've taken from this is if I am an OW I can confirm that it is not a bed of roses being with an MLC-er - they are not capable of being any better a person for any length of time.
  • Logged
M: 49
W: 40
Married 1 year together 3.5 years
No kids but we have dogs
BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

 

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