Author Topic: My Story Insert Clever Title here....  (Read 3377 times)

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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My Story Insert Clever Title here....
« on: September 16, 2019, 06:43:08 AM »
Just when I think there is a glimmer of peace on the horizon.....

After quite a few great days of just enjoying the last few days of summer and being able to ride my bike and thinking that I can do this, I can be okay....SWOOSH, BAM - life slaps me in the face and humbly I must admit yet again, that I am still as fragile and confused as ever.

See, it's when you don't constantly think about it and when you relax and don't lurk around corners......no thinking a thing I met a client at the front door at work and BANG! there MLC walks right past me, smiles and says 'Hey, how are you doing' with a big smile on his face. And that's when schratz goes from composed, capable adult professional to Deer in Headlight - flight mode.
I just smiled back and greeted the client and moved away from the area as quickly as possible while MLC was still standing there waiting for me to chat or something. No, there was nothing classy or composed about it - I am sure I looked like a panic stricken rabbit on the way into the snake pit.

And that irks me to no end. Actually it pi$$es me off. Instead of running to the bathroom to cry, I ran back to my desk to yell at myself. Which I guess is a step in the right direction....but....Why oh why does that man still have that affect on my after 2 years ? When does it end ????? Is there a magic spell breaker potion I can purchase and guzzle ? This is so irritating to me that he still holds that kind of power over my heart and soul. When will I be indifferent to seeing him ?

And why must they torture us ? Why can he not just disregard me ? Clearly he doesn't want me in his life, so why act all friendly and jovial as if we are old buddies ?

Dangit - this was not how today was supposed to go down.....


Previous thread  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10846.150
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2019, 07:06:37 AM »
Attaching Schratz....

And, if you really want an answer to the somewhat rhetorical question
Quote from: Scratz66
Why oh why does that man still have that affect on my after 2 years ? When does it end ????? Is there a magic spell breaker potion I can purchase and guzzle ? This is so irritating to me that he still holds that kind of power over my heart and soul. When will I be indifferent to seeing him ?

It is my opinion/belief that this probably doesn't happen until we drink the potion called "Done," especially if you are in close contact with the Mid-Lifer for whatever reason.... I used to be that way with xW as well until the court date was set. That was my turn to drink from the Done Fountain... There is no longer trepidation or longing or anything else... That has all been replaced by a huge heaping helping of "OK, lets get this conversation over and done with so I can go take care of the things I need to take care of." I can be, and am cordial but, happy mask or not, xW no longer gets a rise out of me...
Me - 56
xW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2019, 07:35:45 AM »
When does it end?

For several of us, possibly never.

Acceptance of what once was and is gone helps me to be able to see him..but there is still plenty of emotion attached to that.

If I had the choice to completely erase him from my mind and my heart I don't think I would take that choice.

And no, many do not leave us alone. Remember that they too have a heart and that we are still very much a part of that heart. Many MLCers cannot seem to erase us either.

Which makes sense as I always come back to the same thought...this is not about me and not about our marriage. That is the hardest thing to believe, truly believe but it is what allows me to take the feelings I have, which are normal for the love we shared and deal with them as a normal response to a very abnormal situation.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Music45

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2019, 12:18:27 PM »
Schratz, I hear you. Sounds to me like you coped with today a whole lot better than you would have done not so long ago. That's progress. Keep doing what you're doing.
I've not had a great day either, I know exactly how you feel.
Hang in there.
Me: 51
H: 51
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [works away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2019, 04:10:52 PM »
I’m sorry Music that your day wasn’t  great either. Hopefully tomorrow will be better for you. Ursa - where do we find the ‘Done’ flavor of the potion ? Then again how can I be done if I still love that stupid man with every fiber of my being. Often I wish I could be done, and maybe I will get there one day, then again maybe not.

Xy- it just shocks me that after two years there is still so much emotion wrapped up in just seeing him. How do you deal with the emotions when you see yours ?
And we all know they are bonkers, but seriously a casual ‘Hey what are you doing’ like he didn’t run off with another woman and chose to live his life without me?
Can’t wrap my head around it.

And so I will just let it go along with the unusual tomato gift last month and the Hey I just noticed the 4 year old scratch on your car from the month before that.

But on a just as messed up front my brother sent me a pic of him and his OW like it’s the most natural thing in the world. If it wasn’t for the truly amazing guys on this forum I would start thinking that men in general are a few cents short of a dollar.

Anyhow- Monday over - no tears were shed and tomorrow is another day.
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2019, 06:37:43 PM »
Schratz, Sorry about the sighting today.  I know those triggers- two years in and you think we could handle it. I wonder if it is the surprise of it all. Maybe it would not be so bad if we could prepare in advance for the sightings.   And then the best buddies routine, like they forgot our relationship, or perhaps they are trying to show the world that they are good people, all "amicable."  You did well. Tomorrow will be a better day.
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline stillbaffled

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2019, 07:23:55 PM »
Continuing on with you, S66. 

That "done" potion is an enigma, that's for sure.  As xyz says, for some it never comes.  For UM it came when the court date was set.  For me it came when he married the ow. 

I'm sorry that you had the encounter this morning, but you handled it and kept going.   
BD: 1/1/16
Together 15 years - married 7 years
His divorce final 7/26/16
Married the OW

After all, tomorrow is another day.

Online Whyus

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2019, 10:50:45 PM »
Im sorry that you had such a $h!tety sighting S ("sighting" makes him Sound like Bigfoot in a way  :o). I know exactly how you feel, XW would just drive past me in traffic and "BOOM".... off Spinning I went for days. It does seem that we are under a spell of some Kind. There is no magic "done" potion, its a conscious decision which could come after something big happens.

For UM it was the court date, for me it was the signing off and selling of our house or it could be a marriage to OP or a child with OP. It could just be that you wake up one day and just think "firetruck this $h!te!". Some are never done and could stand for the rest of their lives which is also ccol if that is what you want. We (LBS) are all different but somehow I feel we are a Little Special, our spouces certainly firetrucked up the best Thing that ever happened to them in leaving us.


If it wasn’t for the truly amazing guys on this forum I would start thinking that men in general are a few cents short of a dollar.
We guys on this Forum could say the same, that all women in General are a few Cents short of a Dollar.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. Is tolerated by LaFamiglia
2 Sons - 20 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2019, 01:26:39 AM »
I honestly think there are levels or types of 'done'ness, 66. Some we choose, some seem to just happen over time. And some of our sighting 'reactions' are sometimes more about residual trauma than about doneness. One can be 'done' but still triggered or uncomfortable I suspect.

My xh is no longer what he was to me but neither is he just another stranger on the planet either. I am done in the sense of seeing him as part of my past not my future, but he was important to me. I have not been tested in my situation - the benefits of a vanisher lol - but I don't know how I would feel or respond if I heard he was seriously ill say or indeed if he asked for my help in some serious way. Idk....but I do know that for me at some level he is still significant as a person to me even if I am apparently not so for him. That seems normal and healthy to me after twenty years together tbh even if I do nothing with that feeling.

What I see in your post - bc I did/do it - is a belief about 'should' linked to time. Understandable but not very useful imho. Please understand that I am Ms Pot on this! You feel what you feel and no one else needs to know or has the right to tell you to feel otherwise. Right now this is how you feel. Some day you might feel slightly differently which is ok too.

I would tell your brother to stop and give him an non negotiable metaphorical slap if you must. No need to explain or justify, just say don't do this or it will affect how we communicate in future. People are surprisingly dull witted or wedded to other people's dramas sometimes, men and women both, but you have the right to say not on your time. I had to do that with some of my girlfriends more than once. File your h's behaviour under the Mad Tomatoes label and turn your eyes away from it to keep focused on other things. You did nothing wrong and you are under no obligation to play the 'this is normal' game, really you're not.

Are you still looking for jobs elsewhere?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 01:33:00 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2019, 09:02:53 AM »
This was on Couragedearhearts thread. I think it might answer some of your questions about why we continue to feel the way we do
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58ed2e74e4b0145a227cb909/amp
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2019, 07:56:29 AM »
Thank you all for your replies.
Xy - thank you for the link - just wow - puts it all in a nutshell, doesn't it. And I am fully aware that some of the trauma is still left over from childhood when my father had his MLC and left and my mother disappearing into alcohol to deal with the pain.
I recovered nicely from the Big Foot sighting - thanks Why - that made me snicker - and did not fall apart. Resisted the urge to contact and explain why I did not stop and speak, but didn't. Somebody said to me that I should make contact and make it comfortable and easy for him to be friendly with me if I want him to come back. I thought about that for a couple of days now. The person that told me that said that my stubbornness refusing to contact is maybe ruining his coming back. I disagree.

I have always very kindly and nicely replied to any contact he made, I thanked him for the stupid tomatoes, I agreed to meet for drinks when asked and I was kind and polite when he backed out.
If he wants contact, he knows where I am at and unless he is a complete Nincompoop he knows that I still care about him deeply. It is not my responsibility to chase him down, it is not my job to continuously make him feel warm and secure and let him know I will not reject him. He left. He has to really want to have me back in his life and he has to initiate.

Am I completely off base with that ? Just wondering, because you know the LBS always wonders  :)

Read an interesting perspective the other day - it was talking how some people cannot get over a relationship and just miss the other person so much. Somebody said, it is not necessarily the actual person that you miss, it is the emotions that that person invokes in you that you miss. Been chewing on that and I am not sure how I feel about that.

Other than that - it is still beautiful Indian Summer here and I get out as much as I can on my bike before the wet, gray and soggy season starts.  Meeting a group of friends this evening for dinner and then the weekend is here - yay  ;D

Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2019, 08:08:20 AM »
Makes perfect sense to me 66 and imho a very healthy way to see it  :)

I think in my experience I have missed both things with my loved ones. Things that are about who they were. Times when I miss the feeling of having a Mum say. Not sure either one is better or worse, just different. What I do notice is that the happy memories seem to come with the first and the tears with the second.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2019, 11:04:41 AM »
 
Quote
Somebody said to me that I should make contact and make it comfortable and easy for him to be friendly with me if I want him to come back. I thought about that for a couple of days now. The person that told me that said that my stubbornness refusing to contact is maybe ruining his coming back. I disagree.

So you are to blame?

No Schratz, until he is ready to find you, there is NOTHING you can do to "entice" him back.....what does this person know really? We are not in high school. This is not a dating game.

Your husband is in a serious crisis and until he resolves some of that, there is nothing you can do.

"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2019, 01:25:01 AM »
Somebody said to me that I should make contact and make it comfortable and easy for him to be friendly with me if I want him to come back. I thought about that for a couple of days now. The person that told me that said that my stubbornness refusing to contact is maybe ruining his coming back.

Me - 56
xW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2019, 04:11:03 AM »
I agree S, you are right.

You did nothing to cause his crisis, so you can't fix it.
You have been nothing but nice and friendly to him.  Perfect!
My goodness you have come a long way.   :)

You were the one rejected, not him.  So let him figure it out.  He either will or he won't.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2019, 10:44:23 AM »
So, it’s my birthday today and I’ve decided that my gift to myself will be to not check my email to see if he sent anything. I shall enjoy this day in peace with no monkey braining and no tears.
My mom sent me a German magazine and German Gummies and i shall sit by the lake enjoying the sun and life. I have a good life and many blessings including all of you on here.

Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2019, 10:55:50 AM »
Happy Birthday Schratz!!
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 39

BD1-April 2018-Unrecognized by me until way later, he is unhappy, wants counseling.
BD2-October 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), OW2(PA) no longer together.  I believe he is single. 
April 2019 He got an apartment and moved out.
Oct 2019-Apologized for a years worth of monster behavior.  Still wants to start divorce this Spring, is distant, but friendly.  Tries more with kids, but mostly just helps haul them around(superficial).

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2019, 11:33:27 AM »
Happy birthday, 66 xxx
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2019, 11:37:53 AM »
Happy birthday and enjoy your day!
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Online Helpingme!

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2019, 12:09:47 PM »
Happy Birthday 66. Have a good one!!!

Offline Evermore

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2019, 03:40:55 PM »
Happy birthday! I hope your day is lovely. Xx
M: 49
H: 51
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 20
D: 18
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45) - he met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her.

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2019, 05:03:22 PM »
Happy Birthday, S.

{{Big Hug sweetie}}
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline rubyhearted

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2019, 06:38:08 PM »
Attaching.

It is so helpful to me to have all of you remind me that I am not crazy and that we can rollercoaster. I am on the rollercoaster again. Never a fan. As we age I am convinced that the whipiness can cause concussions. Beware.

Allowing them to affect us and our emotions gives them power that they do not deserve. NC seems to be the only way to take that power in any way. Yet even when we go NC we still give them power because there are too many shadows of them.
"Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon." Nelson Mandela

"Where are my dragons?!" Daenerys Targaryen

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2019, 01:00:36 AM »
So, it’s my birthday today and I’ve decided that my gift to myself will be to not check my email to see if he sent anything. I shall enjoy this day in peace with no monkey braining and no tears.
My mom sent me a German magazine and German Gummies and i shall sit by the lake enjoying the sun and life. I have a good life and many blessings including all of you on here.

Haribo macht Kinder fröh und Erwaschene ebenso....

Did you get Haribo Gummibears?

Happy Birthday (belated) Schratz!
Me - 56
xW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2019, 05:42:15 AM »
Thank you all for the birthday wishes
Ursa - of course it was Haribo - are there any other real Gummies :)

Had a lovely peaceful day reading at the lake and enjoying the sun an nature and it was really nice.
Unfortunately I had to check my emails in the evening to make sure there was no work crisis that needed attending, and there it was....a generic Happy Birthday schratz - enjoy your day.

I know I should be grateful he remembered since he can't remember anybody else's birthday
I know I should be grateful he contacted at all
But damn those monkeys in that brain of mine and damn those pesky expectations that are still lurking in the subconscious
Birthday tears were flowing, but not a true sob fest, just a few tears on 
Thankfully I contained the urge to reply with a "You do know that I am still head over heels in love with you, don't you ?" and just went with the standard "Thank you".

And needless to say the rest of the evening was pent in the rabbit hole of self pity and sad and missing him and How the hell did we end up like this.

But, today is a new day - I will not be the kind to throw myself at him. On another thread I just read that they make it out of MLC they come back looking for the woman that they fell in love with to begin with and so I need to stay true to myself by keeping my head up, letting him be and being calm and graceful about it all. I need to contain my crazy to my own house and bless my cat for having to see it, but thankfully he can't speak to alert the authorities on just how crazy his human is :)


Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2019, 06:25:37 AM »
Sorry you ended up crying on your birthday but happy you spent most of it in peace.  :)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2019, 07:22:14 AM »
I've often felt grateful that cats DON'T have some kind of emergency 'report your substandard human' phone line lol
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Father5

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2019, 02:38:00 PM »
Happy B-Day 66

  My B-day was the 19th and I did the same as you. My wife came over unannounced and brought the kids with some cupcakes and a gift. I wasn't home so she sent me a text.In it she said she came by and wished me a happy birthday. Mind you we haven't  talked except for the kids and expenses in a year or so. Served me papers last week asking for everything under the sun. But hey we can still be friends right ?;)

  My mind was a big Firetruck you !But I ate the cupcakes ! LOL She then proceeds to go outside and wave goodbye to me every time I drop the kids off now.
Together 12 yrs Married 5
5 kids 3- Step (21) (20) (18) Two together ( 8 ) (9)
BD1 March 2018 - I wish I could give you more of what you need
BD2 Aug 2018 - I want a divorce sent by text ILWYBNILWY

O/M Discovered Nov-18

Offline Music45

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2019, 11:17:38 PM »
Belated Happy Birthday Schratz.
I'm sorry you had tears but it's so good to read you bouncing up again. Here's to more of that and nobody inventing anything so that pets can talk!

Me: 51
H: 51
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [works away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2019, 03:24:33 PM »
Happy birthday week, Schratz!!
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2019, 04:55:19 PM »
Your pure love for him is so sweet!!   The day on the lake sounds like bliss!! 
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 39

BD1-April 2018-Unrecognized by me until way later, he is unhappy, wants counseling.
BD2-October 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), OW2(PA) no longer together.  I believe he is single. 
April 2019 He got an apartment and moved out.
Oct 2019-Apologized for a years worth of monster behavior.  Still wants to start divorce this Spring, is distant, but friendly.  Tries more with kids, but mostly just helps haul them around(superficial).

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2019, 06:28:43 AM »
Thanks again all.
And yup, need your 2x4s and honest advice - well, not so much advice but stern talking to....
I know Ursa - how many more times do I need to be told not to stick the fork up my nose  :-\

So, I waited three days - because you know that's what we say - wait 3 hours, 3 days to see if the urge passes.
The urge has not passed.

What do I expect the outcome to be ? I don't know -
Does any of it make a difference ? No
Am I prepared to hear things I don't want to hear ? I don't know

Patience has never been my forte - I have never been one to just sit by - and maybe this is what MLC is trying to teach me, but dagnabbit

It has been bugging me for days now and rather than do, I am checking for a reality check with my peeps here. I bow to your wisdom and hope you will make me see how there's nothing to be gained even if H always has been one to get a push in the rear and even if he would wait for me to make a move

So tempted to send him a message to either ask if he is still with OW or a message about how his latest contact has been really confusing me …

Logically I know it is an attempt (call it manipulation) for him to say it was all a big mistake and he has come to his senses and we will live in Unicorn land forever happily after.

Logically I know if that was the case he could make an earnest attempt - then again I think maybe he would be afraid of rejection - but then really if he was serious he wouldn't care ….you see how messed up my mind is ? Logically i know it all, but emotionally I am just so desperate for something to happen

Just writing this I realize how messed up this all is and how desperate I sound and I wish I could just slap some sense into me myself....

Ugh - have I mentioned how much I despise MLC ? How much I wish I could just not care and move on …..

It's like eternal Purgatory waiting to see if it will be heaven or hell


Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2019, 06:39:08 AM »
Quote
So, I waited three days - because you know that's what we say - wait 3 hours, 3 days to see if the urge passes.
The urge has not passed.

What do I expect the outcome to be ? I don't know -
Does any of it make a difference ? No
Am I prepared to hear things I don't want to hear ? I don't know

Wait 3 weeks?  :)
Seriously the above tells you that your head is in one place and your feelings in another. Normal, but helps that you can see that bc it tells you what the itch is about imho.
You have some feelings that are looking for an outlet. Impatience? What else? What are the feelings? And what would scratch the itch enough honestly?

When I used to be in a similar head/feelings place I used to write long letters to my then h. Never sent them but writing was a good displacement activity and it gave the feelings a bit of an airing. Try that maybe and wait 3 weeks....?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2019, 06:41:13 AM »
Funny S, we seem to cycle just like they do. (not ha ha funny either).

I think sometimes when you do have some contact, you don't think so, but it can have a profound effect on you.  It brings everything to the forefront again.

You know this will pass.  It has before.

No lecture or 2x4 from me, just a little caution needed.  I do think something is brewing inside your H but you won't know what until he reaches out and talks to you.

If you absolutely HAVE to contact him, why not just..
"Hi H, I just wanted to apologize for not responding to you the other day.  I was in such a rush.
Hope you have a nice day,
S"

Or something to that effect.  That way you are not asking questions, just leaving an opening for him.  IF you have to.  Otherwise give it a little more time.

 ;D
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2019, 07:15:09 AM »
I am only a year into this, but if we push, could it not facilitate an early return.  From my perspective it is part of their struggle.  Similar to a caterpillar in a cocoon, doesn’t he need to become strong enough on his own to get out.

Not to say if your gut is telling you to say something you shouldn’t, more just be sure.  We shouldn’t make it too easy on them and fix it for them.  They need to find their voice and strength and grow up.  Just my opinion.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 39

BD1-April 2018-Unrecognized by me until way later, he is unhappy, wants counseling.
BD2-October 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), OW2(PA) no longer together.  I believe he is single. 
April 2019 He got an apartment and moved out.
Oct 2019-Apologized for a years worth of monster behavior.  Still wants to start divorce this Spring, is distant, but friendly.  Tries more with kids, but mostly just helps haul them around(superficial).

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2019, 07:21:14 AM »
And yup, need your 2x4s and honest advice - well, not so much advice but stern talking to....
I know Ursa - how many more times do I need to be told not to stick the fork up my nose  :-\

Until you decide to QUIT STICKING THE FREAKING FORK UP YOUR NOSE!

Or beating your head against the wall.. take you pick...

Me - 56
xW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2019, 12:20:16 PM »
I like what Thunder suggested. And you know me, I am the WORST at the whole "silence is golden" thing. I am over a year more into it than you and I am still tempted to write. But I don't.  Hardest thing to do isn't it?  But if you must, the innocuous words Thunder suggested seem really good. It's a gentle reminder that you still exist. LOL. But clearly he was thinking of you on your B-Day. And he is definitely conflicted over many things. No he's not done with you. Nor is he done with this crisis.

They need to find their voice and strength and grow up. 

Love this. And I quite agree. Hugs friend. You are doing great.
Me 48
H 47
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2019, 01:05:38 PM »
I would contact him if you feel you want to. They don't get to control us.

I would NOT ask if he were still with OW and I would NOT state how confusing his contact is for me...although I would want to.

I tend to think that my marriage has been over for a decade, any relationship between us , if that were to happen will be like starting new, getting to know one another again.

I have had confusing contact for years and even a slight move on my part ( even after a good time shared together) seems to send him further back into the tunnel.

Thunder wrote:

"
Quote
Hi H, I just wanted to apologize for not responding to you the other day.  I was in such a rush.
Hope you have a nice day,
S"

I wouldn't apologize or give any explanation.

You could still answer him and just state, "thanks for the birthday wishes" I think that is what you are referencing with not having answered him.

I am also not a fan of the rule of 3 for it causes me too much anxiety. When Mr xyzcf contacts me, I answer him back. To me the waiting (unless needed to get your thoughts together) is manipulative...kind of like game playing and thinking that making them "wait" will somehow give them some sort of message that maybe they are losing you. I just don't play that game.

Again, just my own comfort.

Just my experience.

Does he have a birthday or something that you could send him a greeting sometime coming up so you can satisfy that itch to "do something"?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 01:11:54 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Acorn

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2019, 01:24:17 PM »
I’m a huge fan of the rule of 3!  It saved me from numberless regrets.
The rule of 3 gave my rational brain time to work so that I could respond to my MLCer with compassion and grace.  H definitely remembers how I treated him during his MLC hey days.

‘If the rule is used as ‘game playing; or ‘manipulation’ as you said, xyz, it is not something one can be proud of.  I guess that’s where mirror work can be useful.’ 
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 06:35:06 PM by Thunder »
Live-in MLCer
Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Couragedearheart

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2019, 05:34:38 PM »
S66
That feeling.....the MUST DO SOMETHING!!!! Yep, I know that one well. It was/is my go too.
It’s control.

When life feels crazy we want to effect some sort of change on it.

The compulsion to manipulate or speed up or change the outcome.

I have only found one way to stop this dead in its tracks, direct this energy towards myself to examine why I feel such a need to get involved/ do something/ say something/ prompt something.  I find that if that’s the option I give myself as far as “something to do” I don’t feel quite as compelled to get right in there and get started.

There are also exercises on you tube to stop ruminations. You know turning the pebble over and over in our mind till it’s worn smooth they to think our way out of an emotional problem.

You want to respond. Fine do it.
“Thank you for the kind Birthday wishes, I was happy to hear from you”
 Then drop it.

The reality is my ruminator wouldn’t be satisfied with whatever answer I got, I’d dissect it for days and end up with 100x more questions than I started with.

All that time you could have spent asking what you need, what you want, what would bring you joy.

Just me 2€ for what it’s worth. 😊
Me 36
H 36
S15
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2019, 11:53:12 AM »
And that's my friends is why I am such a fan of this forum. See, I learned something - actually i learned a lot, but the most precious part of what I learned is to post here instead of going with whatever impulse I have and trust me I am such an impulsive woman on one hand and yet a careful planner on the other - makes for a crazy existence for sure :)

Courage put the finger right on it....I think the Having to do something is about fear and control. The compulsion to change or speed up the outcome - couldn't put it any more accurate than that. When life seems to have spun out of control I want to do something so it seems like I am not just sitting inside the tornado cloud with idle hands. Even though sitting still inside a tornado is about as useful as trying to snatch things up that you know will be torn apart - so the outcome is the same, but I guess the feeling of having done something … I don't even know if I am making sense.
And my fear is not of not being able to go on without him - I know I can and I know I will be okay either way. I think the fear is still the old if it turns out that he truly does not love me anymore, am I really worthy of love.....which as I learned in therapy is not factual either.

My therapist compared it to a baby. The fact that Person A cannot love that baby does not make the baby unlovable. The fact that her biological father cannot love my D does not make her unlovable because she truly is an amazing human being. I can see it logically and I know it's true - but dang, if it comes to myself I still don't get it.
Logically I know I am a great person and many people like me, some love me - so why is this one person such a big deal in my own esteem if I am lovable or not ?

Thunder, I agree - we cycle as much as they do - and I know that now so I come here and harass you patient readers rather than go rogue and contact him.

Bottom line - this whole need for contact is about me . Me having to find that I am lovable regardless of what the outcome may be.
Ever since my birthday and this latest cycle I am in, I have been riding my bike like a mad woman every single free minute. Strangely when I am on the bike and my lung is falling out trying to climb a hill, that's all I focus on - no monkeys, no MLC, no worries other than making it to the top alive without collapsing.

Thank you again for taking the time and helping me through this stretch - I really do appreciate it.
Eyes on me and leaving him to himself.





Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Couragedearheart

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2019, 12:25:34 PM »
Here’s a rumination question for you s66....what speaks love to you...and how are you showing yourself that you love you.
What would that look like?
How could you incorporate that into your everyday schedule?

What is S66 if she isn’t loved? How would you be any different? What would change?

What about your day would be different?

Just something to think about.
Me 36
H 36
S15
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2019, 01:12:53 PM »

Bottom line - this whole need for contact is about me . Me having to find that I am lovable regardless of what the outcome may be.


Agreed. But there is also the part where we simply miss the old versions of our MLCers. And that need to reach out is partially based on that. B/c they were our person for a very long time. Until they weren't. And most people, most NORMAL, non-MLC people, cannot simply flip that switch to off in an instant.

But I get the need to feel lovable again too. BD wreaks havoc on our self esteem. To be able to see that is huge in this abyss.
Me 48
H 47
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Couragedearheart

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2019, 01:41:07 PM »
KIT,

It does wreak havoc on your self esteem....but that is just the point...isn’t it?

Why would I base my self esteem (the value I give to myself) on the requirement that someone else love me forever.  Can I reasonably demand that? Is it something I can control?

S66 didn’t become suddenly unlovable. S66 didn’t change. S66 was and is still S66.....why would we base the ability for her to be loved or be important or special enough to be loved on the opinion of one person in a mental health crisis who currently hates themselves and is taking that out on the world?

That’s silly.

So then the possibility that maybe we have been evaluating our “lovableness” with an incorrect thought or rule.  Being loved does not indicate wether or not someone can be loved or is worthy of love.  And if S66 wants to test the theory of wether or not she can be loved...she can start by loving herself, see herself through the eyes of a person that loves her, you can always discover things about yourself that are fascinating an unique and worthy.
Me 36
H 36
S15
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2019, 11:46:20 AM »
KIT - I do miss our easygoing, fun, trusting, soul meshing relationship. He was my person and will always be my person on some level. And it is hard to not have that.
Courage - that is a good question...what is schratz if she isn't loved....I thought about that and what am I if I am not loved is that I am of service to others. What is more important to me is to find that I am lovable - that my lovable should not and cannot need to be validated from the outside but that I have to learn to feel lovable on my own. How to accomplish that - I have no clue....because logically I know I am lovable, but emotionally I do not feel lovable
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Couragedearheart

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2019, 12:09:19 PM »
S66,

Samesies! Me and my IC are doing EMDR to rewrite that very message. And yes! I have the logical part down it’s the heart part I’m struggling with.

I have been sitting with a picture of me from when I was very small....I look at it....that’s Courage....and I tell her that she is lovable, I tell her all the wonderful things about her, the things that make her special and unique...the things I love about her. I can love me.

And I can show love too.

Hugs 🤗
Me 36
H 36
S15
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2019, 06:27:32 AM »
So, who wouldn't want to start a rainy Monday morning by running into MLC in the hallway before my first cup of coffee and him slinging a casual Good Morning my way as if we never met.
But I will not let that set the tone of the day or the week - chuck it up to crazytown and move on.
I signed up for my very first Biking Event this coming Saturday - 30 miles / 48 km to be completed in 4 hours max. If you make it to the finish line - your price will be free hot dogs and a commemorative T- Shirt :)

We shall see if I survive.....I thought I would have no trouble...but then again I had my first major wipe out yesterday while trying to train.
Maybe I am getting too old for all this exercise...….I was finishing up a hill and got dizzy and crashed right into a fence......I am sure it looked rather comical and of course as any grown up would do, you pretend nothing happened and you are just taking a little break. Waited until I made it home to inspect the damage....road rash on both knees, bruising on legs and shoulder and back but nothing that a few days and some bandages won't fix. So, now, paranoia is creepin in - what if it happens again during the event...….maybe I should just resign myself to sitting on the couch eating chocolates for the next 30 years......nah - I'll be back on the bike tomorrow

Found out that the job I interviewed for went to somebody else - a friend of a friend of the interview board member - that's just how government jobs get handed out - it's who you know. But I am not giving up and will keep applying and when it is the right job, it will happen.

Happy Monday everybody

Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2019, 07:19:58 AM »
I always think of that 'pretend nothing happened' as being very cat-like  ;)
Most cats will nonchantly lick a paw and act like they planned to fall off that wall if they do...so I am imagining you licking your paw with attitude, but hope you weren't too badly hurt 66.

Hope the ride goes well but I think I would need shoes or jewellery as opposed to a t-shirt and a hot dog  ::) and keep job hunting...the right one wil show up, it always does.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 07:22:13 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2019, 07:09:21 PM »
Schratz, You did good - both with the encounter and surviving a wipe out.  Like Treasur, I am more of a shoe and jewelry and chocolate eating girl, too, but I am so very impressed with your training.  The complete indifference and pretending never ceases to amaze me.  When it happens, I really want to shriek and add drama, but somehow, we never do, we keep it much too steady and restrained.  Keep going with the job search - the right one will come along.  Good luck on Saturday, but first onto Tuesday and I hope its a good one!
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2019, 06:41:04 AM »
I am not gonna lie I had a good old laugh at that image.

Not because I enjoyed your pain but because that is the kinda $h!te I do.

Do something stupid, hope no body saw, and carry on with your day only to find out later you busted your freaking toe.  :o
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2019, 05:52:49 PM »
Ouch--that fall sounds super painful. I fall all the time.  Just walking...LOL. And I also see lots of cyclists falling too. Picking yourself up, dusting off, and getting right back on that bike again? Well that is what separates you from the rest of the pack my friend. You are a survivor.  You got this.

I'm doing something for the free T-Shirt too. Although I think mine is much easier than yours. I know you will rock it!
Me 48
H 47
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2019, 11:18:51 AM »
Well, bruises and road rash are about healed up from my previous not so graceful encounter with the road...….and I finished the 30 mile event.
The weather had been non stop warm and beautiful all week - well, you guessed it, except for Saturday morning.
Cold, windy and pouring the rain.
I have never been as cold and miserable in my whole entire life - I swear I thought my fingers and toes would fall off any minute, but I made it. Finished all 30 miles - about half the people gave up after 5 - 10 miles due to the huge misery factor of it all and while I came in last I did finish. In the official race photos I look like a wet, angry hedgehog on a bike on the war path and that's how I felt, but I finished. I also learned that if you are the last of the field, the 'sweeper' car will follow you like a stalker the entire time. And let me tell you that when you are cold and wet and exhausted - you get a wee bit angry at the person in the nice dry and warm car that is following you at snail speed.

But, hey - I got my finisher shirt and my free hot dog :)

Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline stillbaffled

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2019, 05:56:35 PM »

But, hey - I got my finisher shirt and my free hot dog :)


Way to go!  The shirt and the hot dog have nothing on the feeling you must have after completing that event!  Nice work. 
BD: 1/1/16
Together 15 years - married 7 years
His divorce final 7/26/16
Married the OW

After all, tomorrow is another day.

Offline Milly

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #53 on: October 16, 2019, 01:35:28 AM »
Schratz, well done!! Bet hotdog tasted great!
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2019, 03:46:47 AM »
Hey! You finished ahead of a car! Cool!

Well done!
Me - 56
xW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2019, 07:27:19 AM »
Best tasting Hot Dog ever and dang Ursa - I did come in ahead of a car 😁

But good days can’t last - at least not as long as you work in the same building. Pulling into work this morning I saw people gathered at the entrance. Being ever so vigilant I made sure MLC wasn’t one of them. Seems the electronic lock didn’t work and we couldn’t get in the building until the Security Company came to override the lock. So, standing there chatting with others while waiting - MLC pulls up behind the building (so I didn’t see him pull up or I would have bolted) and walks up.
And really? Out of all people he has to ask me what the issue with the door was ?

I couldn’t even look at him, mumbled something and walked off. Total failure on my part for not finding KITs grit and grace.
They really don’t have a clue though do they ?
If he knew that I feel a little bit like dying every time I run I to him.....
But then he doesn’t deserve to know that.

And while I know I’ll bounce back it still irks me that he still has that affect on me.

Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2019, 08:14:40 AM »
No he doesn't need to know that, S.

Congrats on finishing in the cold, wet weather.  You can be so proud of yourself!!   ;D
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #57 on: October 16, 2019, 11:53:35 AM »
I hate being rude - so I just send this:
Didn’t mean to be rude this morning.
His reply: It‘s okay and understandable Schratz. I guess I make you feel that way from time to time...

What the heck does that even mean? And now it just ticks me off that he assumes it’s all about him. What if I was just grumpy ? Ugh.

I wish I could just be done.
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Philadelphiagirl

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #58 on: October 16, 2019, 12:18:38 PM »
Hi 66,

Oh yes, it's all about them in their present state! I'm sorry that you had to run into him in that way and for his response to your email. You are doing well, just keep focusing on you!

Love and support, PG xxx   

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2019, 01:41:53 PM »
Hi Schratz, Congratulations on successfully completing the race this weekend--and with prizes too and finishing ahead of a car!!!!

I am sorry about the sighting this morning.  They never fail to discompose us, do they? Perhaps the suddenness of their appearances?  Focus on your victory this weekend and get yourself your own prize.  Wishing my chocolate twin a nice warm chocolate bar to soothe the soul. 
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #60 on: October 16, 2019, 01:48:09 PM »
Total failure on my part for not finding KITs grit and grace.

Yeah, ummmmm, the grace thing? That's really more of a goal. And one rarely achieved. ;)

I've blurted things out too and get that same response, "I understand." Annoying. Very Eeyore-esque. The interpretation likely is "I understand..... that you are curt to me right now b/c I've been a giant a$$hat to you and I really have no intention whatsoever to stop my offensive behavior but I'm gonna try to make you  feel bad for your FULLY JUSTIFIABLE actions anyway."

That follow up e-mail you sent is the epitome of grace. And adulting. The fact you even think about it shows your emotional superiority. (Not that it is a competition) And all this whilst still recovering from that ride from he!!. Bravo my friend!
Me 48
H 47
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2019, 10:17:12 AM »
Feeling really weird since the run in and reply. Not bad weird, just weird - almost at peace and I haven't even thought much about him. Maybe that just showed me how self involved he is and how fruitless any communication really is at this point. If me being rude comes back to him 'making me feel this way' - if that is his thought process that I could not have possibly have moved on - for all he knows I could have been in a happy relationship with another man the last couple of years or my D could have had an emergency medical situation or a million thousand things on why I could have been rude, but he immediately attributed it to him making me feel that way. Just so odd and absurd and selfish that I don't even have words.

Anyway - trying to get used to that feeling of feeling lighter and no longer desperate. Of course I could cycle and be back in Pityville tomorrow. Let's hope not.

My bike riders and I have planned our last kayak outing of the year for tomorrow and it should be great fun - then I just picked up some great books at the library so I am all set for my weekend.
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Mortesbride

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #62 on: October 19, 2019, 02:56:46 AM »
Kayaking sounds fun. Something I always wanted to try and may eventually look into.

I hope you manage to enjoy a lovely weekend in with all your books.  :)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline stillbaffled

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #63 on: October 19, 2019, 07:00:50 AM »
Enjoy that last kayak outing, S66.   I'm hoping to get one more Harley ride in this afternoon for just a couple hours.  That's about all the weather is going to cooperate to give me! 

Care to share any of your book titles?  I'm currently getting ready to start reading The Walk series by Richard Paul Evans. 
BD: 1/1/16
Together 15 years - married 7 years
His divorce final 7/26/16
Married the OW

After all, tomorrow is another day.

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #64 on: October 19, 2019, 08:17:41 AM »
Schratz-I love Kayaking!  Have fun.

My husband makes comments like that occasionally.  Comments that show his inflated ego and are ridiculous.  The good news is, those comments help us to move forward!!!
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 39

BD1-April 2018-Unrecognized by me until way later, he is unhappy, wants counseling.
BD2-October 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), OW2(PA) no longer together.  I believe he is single. 
April 2019 He got an apartment and moved out.
Oct 2019-Apologized for a years worth of monster behavior.  Still wants to start divorce this Spring, is distant, but friendly.  Tries more with kids, but mostly just helps haul them around(superficial).

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online barbiedoll

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #65 on: October 19, 2019, 05:32:31 PM »
Quote
f he knew that I feel a little bit like dying every time I run I to him.....
But then he doesn’t deserve to know that.

And while I know I’ll bounce back it still irks me that he still has that affect on me.
.

I believe I completely understand this reaction Schratz. It was the # 1 reason I went zero contact. Completely and utterly had NO intention of laying eyes on him. I had so much anxiety and pain just seeing him, it took me days to recover. And then spent days wondering "why he said this or why he said that ".  I was "triggered" and he was the trigger. You well may have PTSD at some level as well.  You are not alone in this reaction...not at all. He represents a huge amount of pain and confusing emotions, hurt , hope … all of it. That you manage to work in the same building is incredible to me. I know without question...I could not have. You one brave lady !
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #66 on: October 20, 2019, 07:12:20 AM »
Schratz, I so understand as well, particularly when it is a surprise.  And then it does take a while to bounce back and not over-think every word or glance. 
I hope kayaking was lots of fun.  Nature does heal us. 
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2019, 10:06:27 AM »
Thank you all for your continued support - kayak trip was sooo amazing.
 
We decided to go to Bridge Day. West Virginia has the longest and highest arch bridge in the Western Hemisphere and one day a year people are allowed to parachute off of that bridge, which is what we call Bridge Day. The weather was gorgeous - we kayaked 4 miles and then hiked 2 more on the railroad tracks and ended up in a spot right underneath the bridge that you normally cannot get to. Watching the parachuters jump and people repelling off the bridge and just spending time with friends was fabulous and worthy of our last boating for the year. Oh, and I saw a baby otter - which I was soooo thrilled to spot.



Mort - you should definitely try kayaking - it's all the things I love wrapped into one - water, nature, outdoors

Stillbaffled - I am currently reading the Fred Vargas Inspector Adamsberg series and am hooked. I had finished all the British Mysteries and this one takes place in Paris - very well written.

Barbie - nothing brave about it - but rather not having a choice. I have too many years in State Government to just leave and haven't been able to find another Government Job where I wouldn't lose money.

Nothing new and exciting happening, which actually I am so thankful for as I like my peace of mind. Isn't it crazy ? The first few months you want to hear from them or see them because of course they will have had an epiphany and realized what a mistake they made and want you back. Now, if I don't hear from him or see him - I am okay and can just focus on me. Still having these nightmares though where he tells me he no longer had any feelings for me and that we are so done. I know dreams can mean so many things but I do not want to spend too much time analyzing and just think they just reflect my biggest fear.

 










Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2019, 12:43:13 PM »
S you do the coolest stuff!

That sounded like a perfect day...then add in an otter sighting, well who could ask for more?
I love otters!!  They are such cute, gentle creatures.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline FearNot

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2019, 02:37:59 PM »
So glad you have found something that you enjoy and what a great pic!

Isn't it crazy ? The first few months you want to hear from them or see them because of course they will have had an epiphany and realized what a mistake they made and want you back. Now, if I don't hear from him or see him - I am okay and can just focus on me.
Kinda made me laugh a little, when I read this and though about how I just wanted to hear anything from H, good, bad, the ugly... Now I can't even  imagine running into him(I'm not sure how you do it and I think you have some major lady balls to do that every day even though you don't have a choice due to your job sitch) or having a conversation. A lot less anxiety when we take our focus off them!

Hugs N Prayers,
FN
M 48
H 41
No Kids
Married 5yrs, Together 11yrs
BD Oct 31/17
ILYBINILWY Dec 21/17
2nd BD- Dec 27/17
OW-Confirmed Jan 3/18

 Isaiah 43:1 " But the Lord says.. Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. "

"It's ok to be scared. Being scared means you're about to do something really, really brave." Anonymous

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2019, 09:35:26 AM »
Indeed Thunder - you cannot beat seeing a baby otter in the wild

Fear - my lady balls are crumbling quickly :)

Ugh - Ugh - Ugh.....

You can't understand it - You can't understand it - You can't understand it … we hear it all the time and know it to be true, and yet, still here I am trying to understand it because if I don't understand it how will I know if he ever changes his mind ???

Today is Halloween and growing up in Germany we did not have Halloween so I do not get into it - I don't get all excited about decorating or dressing up - I just don't. Having said that - my office floor is like all Halloween fanatics and for weeks they have decorated and all day I am hearing mechanical things and spooky music and I just grin and bear it. Anyhow, a lady from our floor went downstairs to the first floor (where MLC works) and happens to tell everyone to come up and see the decorations....so MLC did not need to say anything - but he has to say that he thinks I am fit to be tied and ready to go home. Why does he have to bring me up ?????? He acts like I do not exist every day for the last 2 1`/2 years but every time the third floor is mentioned he has to make some comment about me. And I don't understand it. If he could care less about me as he seems to be - then why insert my name every time ? And if I am still on his mind, then what's the whole point of being apart ?

And the only reason I am in this Halloween nightmare agency is because of him - he quit the other agency and wanted me to come join him over here and of course I did and now BAM I am sneaking around corners and he can make snarky remarks about knowing how much I hate Halloween. It's thanks to you Twat Waffle...ugh....

I so wish I could tell him how all of this makes me feel - how just seeing his car each day triggers me into a down spiral - how I feel so unworthy and unwanted every single day when I walk into work. He has no clue and I cannot tell him because DenJef said MLC cannot handle their own emotions far less the LBSs emotions....

And we are expecting severe weather so I cannot even hop on my bike the next couple of days which does not help matters either. Breathe, schratz, breathe....

Stupid MLC, stupid weather, stupid emotions....

This too shall pass and next week, I am heading up North to visit D and the grandrats, so I know better days are ahead - today just not being one of them
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2019, 10:29:23 AM »
Hi Schratz,  Saw your message and thought I would just say hello and echo another voice telling you to Breathe.  You can survive today. 

Quote
And I don't understand it. If he could care less about me as he seems to be - then why insert my name every time ? And if I am still on his mind, then what's the whole point of being apart ?

If UM were online right now, he would tell you that we cannot taste the color green.  My less than helpful emotional response would be that somewhere he still cares or he would not mention you.  UM's reply is more therapeutic and detached and at that place where we should aspire.  And regardless of what he is feeling, every time he mentions you, he is thinking of you. 

I am sorry about how the Halloween excitement all around you makes you feel  - like being immersed in a different culture or language and being the only one on the outside.  With a name like Maleficent, of course I love Halloween, but I can empathize so very much with the feeling of differentness.  Being in an inclusive environment is so very important, no one should be teased or singled out or excluded.   Maybe next year, take the day off and do something that has a real meaning to you, in the meantime, treat yourself to something you love - did you mention German gummy bears in a past thread. And, breathe breathe breathe and enjoy your trip North!
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline Milly

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2019, 04:17:11 PM »
Schratz, I suspect it's as Male says, deep down you are still inside your H. He still thinks of you. He can't be mature, so he has to make fun of you as 10 and 11 year old boys do when they like a girl.

I'm sorry you work in the same place as your H. That has to be so hard. I can't even begin to imagine what it's like having to enter the front door or to walk down a corridor.

My advice, if you are looking for any, is to not give it any more thought. Your H made a comment about you because he still thinks about you regularly. This is normal MLC behaviour. It means nothing today.
Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2019, 05:29:05 AM »
Hi Schratz,  Saw your message and thought I would just say hello and echo another voice telling you to Breathe.  You can survive today. 

Quote
And I don't understand it. If he could care less about me as he seems to be - then why insert my name every time ? And if I am still on his mind, then what's the whole point of being apart ?

If UM were online right now, he would tell you that we cannot taste the color green. 

Male! You forgot the MOST important part!

Trying to understand the MLC'er is like trying to taste green... with your elbow!

Schratz, you have an odd sort of clinger - almost a "Clinger by Proxy" not to be confused with Klinger:


He KNOWS you are somewhere up there and so he thinks about you often.... He just doesn't have his head far enough out of his .... fog... to DO anything about it... except go running by or make comments..
Me - 56
xW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #74 on: November 02, 2019, 10:27:35 AM »
Thanks Mal and Milly and Ursa - you made me snaughle- snort / laugh combo.

Well, I did a thing - unfortunately I can’t even blame alcohol for it - don’t know why I did it either.
Not proud of it.

This morning at 4 am I woke up and I had to email him that he promised he would let me know when he was sure. He replied at 4.22 with: i did promise and I mean it. Did you need a definite yes or no...I can’t blame you one bit....you may have new avenues snooks (petname) ....we need to have a drink.

How can you not know if he thinks we are over for good ? Why use my petname ? And last time we were going to meet he canceled and never rescheduled.

This dang color green that we cannot taste with our elbow is a pain in the tootie. Do I suggest another date and time ? Do I not reply at all ?

Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #75 on: November 02, 2019, 11:20:31 AM »
So clearly that response tells you he is still pretty confused....still thinking of you....doesn't want to lose you...but not necessarily ready to have you back in his life completely. Still cooking.

Hmmmm, how would I respond?  I used to get these texts often. The "Let's have lunch and talk." And they never happened with my H. Always cancelled. How would I handle that today? I would probably respond with something like, "Sure, let me know when you were thinking and I'll see if I'm free."  Of course you did ask him the question to clearly state his intentions as of today. Are you prepared for a rejection? When they are in this mess, they cycle quite a bit--back and forth. So what they think now could be different than 30 seconds from now. The "answer" you get won't necessarily reflect the truth per se.

Bottom line, you have to do what you are comfortable with. Do you want to be done with him? I know you mentioned that on my thread. Or do you want to leave him alone for now so he can swing in the wind and try to figure it out on his own, which is preferable in my opinion. It is especially hard when we have to see them on a regular basis--in your case you work with him! I get derailed from my proper LBS training when I see H. It sucks. I am way more at peace when I don't see him for long periods of time.

So what do you do? Maybe just do whatever you want. Don't try to strategize. Just be your own authentic S66 self. But know that he is in MLC, so whatever he says is temporary at best. Remember you are not dealing with your H--this is MLCH, a totally different, and often unpleasant animal. You have become a force to be reckened with and that could either be enticing to him, or, more likely, scare the crap out of him. You got this my friend. It's hard and it sucks. I poke the bear all the time too so I understand that 4am text LOL. We are learning too. Except we are still so far ahead of them.
Me 48
H 47
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #76 on: November 04, 2019, 05:39:54 AM »
Hello Schratz,  I sent a 3 am text once after a bad dream, it happens.  So, what to do next.  And, you may have already responded.  If you are not ready to be done, I worry about forcing any issue or asking questions to which you do not know (or fear) the answer.  KIT has given some good advice, but do be yourself.  So hard. 

UM, I forgot the elbow.  Need to keep repeating, cannot taste green with elbow....
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #77 on: November 04, 2019, 06:21:19 AM »
S,

You could suggest he pick a day or evening when he would be available.
But just have no expectations because you have no idea what his reply is going to be.

If you can prepare for a no (the worst), then go for it.  If it's a yes (the best), you can be relieved and happy.

It could even be a maybe.  You just don't know.

But at least you would know what he is thinking, and you can move forward accordingly.
You might even find out about the ow, is she even still in the picture?
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #78 on: November 05, 2019, 07:21:43 AM »
So, we met for drinks yesterday and I was a nervous anxiety ridden pile of human doo doo all day. I kept waiting for him to cancel or to be a no show, but he did show up.

We talked about trivial things like work and this and that and then he said....the answer to your question if we are over for good is "i'm not there yet" ...not sure what that means, but I just listened. He said he has very little confidence that the relationship with OW will last much longer - he said, it's all his issues, but he is not confident in it. He doesn't want to give me false hope.....so then we talked about other stuff...he asked if I was seeing anybody and that he can't expect me to just sit around and wait...I didn't respond to that either.
He gave up rubbing snuff for the OW so now he smokes, which I guess to her is more acceptable - so he asked me to step out with him and I asked how can he not be sure if we are done once and for all...he babbled something again that the relationship with her will probably come to a head by Christmas....he likes her real well but he doesn't want to be a stepdad and do all those family functions that I guess she expects him to do..he called it..there's so many conditions.....I just said it's really easy...is your life better with me in it or is it better without me in it...he said...that sounds like an easy answer......I said nothing......he paused and then said he wants me in his life....and said why don't I hate him since he has been such an arsehole at BD. I said it would be easier if I could hate him. He gave me a real good genuine hug and said he missed me so much but again said he doesn't want to give me false hope and wants to be amicable.
He asked if I felt like grabbing something to eat and I declined and he said it was really nice to see me, he wasn't sure I would show...….

On my drive home of course i had to do a side by the road sobfest...so many emotions and damn that hug felt like home and so right and it's still all so wrong...….I saw the sparkle back in his eyes and the love he has for me.....no more shark eyes - he was able to look straight at me and smile - he hadn't done that in over 2 years......but the fact is...he is still with OW and he knows now that I do not hate him, that I am still waiting like a damn puppy and yet - he is still with her....

I had hoped a meeting would maybe show me that he is no longer the man I love and that I would be able to detach - well, that didn't happen. That hug, I am telling you was real and it reminded me of all I lost. So, a sad somber day for me....I know I have to refocus and eyes back on me....

Let me ask you my people.....does that mean there's movement in the tunnel or does it mean diddly squat other than that he is a wishy washy MLC

Breathe, schratz, breathe...….
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #79 on: November 05, 2019, 08:07:22 AM »
That's a lot to absorb, S.

Maybe give yourself some time and see how you feel about everything he said.

You could break it down.

He has made some movement, no shark eyes, looked you in the eyes, yet still unsure,  still some confusion by.."Not there yet."  Still in MLC.

He likes ow but doesn't see it working out, because he doesn't want to be a stepdad, and do what that involves.  Is that the only reason?  What do you think about his reason?

He misses you.  I'm sure he does, but how much?  Does he want to just be friends right now so he feels less guilty? 

I'm sure this was very emotional for you, but you got some answers, not exactly the one you wanted, but you know more a little more now then you did before.  Main thing is he is still with ow, and you are not an option.  You are his wife.

S, it really isn't surprising he is where he is right now.  It's only been 2 years, right?  Which means he is on the low side of coming out of this.  2 years is pretty rare.

Well ok back to putting the focus on you. 
I'm glad it was a nice meeting anyway.

I'll be interested in hearing how you feel in a few days time.

Hugs, my friend.   :)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #80 on: November 05, 2019, 08:14:19 AM »
When I first started as a young management consultant, a wise old bird said 'Never ask the question until you know what to do with the answer.'...pretty good advice for life really now I think about it.  :)

You asked. Do you know why or what you thought an answer would give you?
His response was probably close to the truth of how he felt at that moment, if not the whole truth about the whole picture.
But as Thunder says, the only person who can decide what to do, if anything, with the answer is you
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #81 on: November 05, 2019, 08:32:25 AM »
Schratz, Just sending hugs.  I do not profess to understand the tunnel, so I will leave that to Treasur and Thunder and those with more wisdom.  I do think you were brave to go out with him for drinks.  It is always brave to go out into the unknown.  On the positive side, you spent some time together and it does seem as though he enjoyed being with you.  What it all means, I do not know.  You did get your answer, however, about whether ow is still in the picture. And as Treasur noted, what do you want to do with that answer?  How do you feel about more time? Does this meeting prevent you from moving forward in any way that would be right for you? So many questions.  Breathe.   
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #82 on: November 05, 2019, 08:34:21 AM »
Sorry, was thinking Hug but forgot to say so  :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Music45

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #83 on: November 05, 2019, 10:25:40 AM »
Hey Schratz. Wow. Lots to absorb as Thunder says. Well done though, sounds like you kept calm and handled it brilliantly (until the car. But that's ok.) Those hugs are HARD. I've had a few and they take your breath away. . Not sure what any of it means (not a lot if my H is anything to go by) but as KiT reminded me once, your H does sound like he's moving along in that tunnel and movement is better than being stuck - even if he's nowhere near the end yet.
Hugs
Me: 51
H: 51
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [works away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #84 on: November 05, 2019, 02:52:13 PM »
I was thinking about you while I was out this evening.
And your question.
How about this....you tested the cake and confirmed that nothing much has changed.
So nothing bad happened, you did nothing wrong, just more of the same really bc he has always been reluctant to entirely let go of you. Words mean nothing, dear one, you know that.
So nothing has changed really....which means you can pick yourself up, brush yourself off after a few tears and go back to normal GAL service.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #85 on: November 05, 2019, 02:58:22 PM »
I have continued to have contact with my husband over the years. it takes it's toil for it brings my hope up and then I experience sadness for nothing changes.

It does give me a window into his life.

Only you will be able to decide if it is OK or not. i will admit, it is really really hard for me to see him and then nothing. But it is a choice I make.

My therapist made it quite clear to me, that I can choose to see him or not. And that my decision need not be one that is static, I am free to choose as I want regarding contact with him.

I would like to be able to be so strong that it would not shake me at all to see him.

I am not.

Keep writing and look inward at what helps you and what hinders you .
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #86 on: November 06, 2019, 06:42:41 AM »
Thank you all for your love and support.
And you are right - nothing has changed and I am not sure why this has me spinning so much.
It was actually a pleasant interaction if you think about it logically, but it seems all logic has left the building.

Nothing has changed - other than the fact that I know now that he misses me and that he still loves me....I got a nice genuine hug....and I know that things with the OW aren't all rosy.
It should be a positive feeling as I was able to let him know I don't hate him and he knows I am waiting. I was able to show him the lights are on in the lighthouse.

So, why in God's name and all that is holy - do I feel like right after BD ?
Did I have expectations that we all know we shouldn't have ? I didn't think so...

Ahead of time as you know I debated if I should meet him - my thoughts were split because I know how any small interaction always throws me out of kilter, but then how would we ever move along if we cannot even meet and talk...

And bear with me while i sort all this tangled mess out in my head and it helps to put it in words in writing...it's almost worse than the initial BD, well, not worse....because at BD he looked like a stranger with cold eyes and was so unemotional that I thought well he just fell out of love and doesn't want me in his life.
Now, I know he loves me and he wants me in his life - and again I go by actions not just words, but yet she still has that pull on him that is stronger than his desire to have me in his life.

Yesterday I spent 8 miles walking very briskly just chanting to myself to Let Go and Let God and had another good deep down cry for all the things I lost.
The timing is bad because with the change of season and the darkness depression always settle sin anyway and this just adds to the pull that black hole has trying to suck me in
I had planned on seeing D and the grandrats but right now I don't even feel like doing that, but I can't do that to D as she's been looking forward to it.

In the end I will go see D and fake it as best as I can, I have to stop the spinning - I have no control, he has his own mind and free will and gets to choose who is more important to him and all I can do is accept it. When I keep reading that being a LBS is not for the weak or faint at heart - no kidding.....just when we think we have it down pat and have arranged a neat little corner of peace and beauty on our new ocean front property, there comes another monster Hurricane and tears it all to shreds. How many times do we rebuild though ?

Wonder what I can chant on my power walk tonight ? Breathe Baby Breathe has rhythm or I could go with Lizzo's Hair toss, check my nails. (Ladies, if you haven't listened to that song, its great gym music and empowering really)

Thank you again for catching me as I tumble
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #87 on: November 06, 2019, 07:46:13 AM »
S I would say you and a little stumble, not a tumble.  You did really good, I think.
You met him for a drink, but declined the dinner invite.  One for you!!!
Besides it's ok to have a little contact with them every now and then, as long as he initiates it.

Now let's see now if he wants to continue "as friends" because that would make him feel less guilty.
I sure wouldn't fall for it.

You can still talk friendly to him but remember boundaries:

No alienator = friends
Alienator = no friends

He has a lot to think about here.  Don't think he is not mulling the meeting with you over in his head, too.

Hugs
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #88 on: November 07, 2019, 06:55:32 AM »
Thank you Thunder.

He must be mulling indeed....received an email last night saying: Thanks for the drinks. It was good to see you. I hope my darkness wasn't overwhelming.
My reply (of course after changing and editing it 50 times keeping all the advice from the forum in my head): It was great to see you and thanks for picking up the tab. What darkness - you were your usual adorable self :)

Ugh - and now he stopped by my desk to say Hey …..

Nope, don't want to be his friend - don't want to be the OW to his OW.
It's too painful - I shall keep responding when he contacts in a friendly manner, but I cannot be his casual chatting buddy.

Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #89 on: November 07, 2019, 07:38:41 AM »
Oh oh..might be getting into the "friend" zone.

It was a nice email to you, though.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #90 on: November 07, 2019, 11:23:57 AM »
i don't want to be his friend - this just hurts so much all over again
I was doing better and now the complete melt down again....
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline xyzcf

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« Reply #91 on: November 07, 2019, 12:09:09 PM »
I am sorry Schratz.

Perhaps if I did not want him in my life, but more importantly now, I want him still to be a part of this family, then it wouldn't matter.

It does hurt when I see him and then he disappears....but I wish to keep the door open a crack anyway.

The danger is that it upsets our peace and causes the feelings to rise again and plaque us.

It is such a cruel and unusual situation to be in.

(((((HUGS))))))))
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #92 on: November 07, 2019, 12:52:58 PM »
Schratz, I am so sorry about the continuing pain and hurt, even from a contact that might be perceived as a good one with a nice message.  So many layers here, and every new communication, a Pandora's box.  We all get it.  You are not tumbling, you are sounding strong.  Onward to tomorrow. 
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Online Treasur

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« Reply #93 on: November 07, 2019, 01:08:39 PM »
i don't want to be his friend - this just hurts so much all over again
I was doing better and now the complete melt down again....

66, with love, I would like you to consider seeing the pain as a signal...no different than a physical pain in some ways...there are times when healing means choosing to stop doing things that cause us pain. Yes, the pain passes....we know that...but sometimes it is worth looking at what the pain is really about to see if it is time to avoid what cycles us back into it. Not easy, I know, but in the end part of healing is also about limiting our exposure to things that hurt us. Maybe not forever, but for a little while?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline KeepItTogether

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« Reply #94 on: November 07, 2019, 03:36:14 PM »
Ugh - and now he stopped by my desk to say Hey …..

Nope, don't want to be his friend - don't want to be the OW to his OW.
It's too painful - I shall keep responding when he contacts in a friendly manner, but I cannot be his casual chatting buddy.

I think this is why they say the re-connection phase is so painful. B/c they are nothing more than a series of T&Gs. And the "G" part of it is excruciating for us b/c , as you say, it feels like BD all over again.

I have had the same thoughts as you--"I don't want to be even "Friendly" to this a$$hat after all he's done to me!" And knowing that he is heading right back to OW. But....if you really think about the whole MLC process, you remember the conflict they are in. Not that it excuses any of this. But they really aren't anyone's friend right now. I am sure OW has NO idea he met with you or that he sees no future with her.

All you can do right now is be the Lighthouse. You are calm and serene and you are looking forward in your journey. Sure there are rough waters today. And there will be more in the future. But you have weathered the storm so far, and you are so much stronger for it. Not that it makes the pain of loss any less. But you have to process that part too in order to move forward. These "talks" are hard to digest. That is why detachment is so important. B/c although there is some truth in what he is saying, the only real thing you can glean out of it is that he is one confused, depressed soul. And that he chose to meet with you tells me he isn't over Schratz.

Sending big hugs my friend.
Me 48
H 47
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Couragedearheart

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #95 on: November 07, 2019, 07:07:33 PM »
s66,

Why are you monkey braining?

He cannot see your thoughts and feelings.

He doesn’t know you are an emotional wreck unless you announce it or collapse on the floor into a quivering pile of snot and tears.

Aside from that....what did he see? S66 powerful, confidant, doing just fine without him. Lol
He.....was planning anticipating thinking and monkey braining over what you might do.

If I didn’t want to be his casual chatting buddy....I’d smile nicely and say “I apologize but I really don’t have time for this” and go back to work as if he wasn’t even standing there.

If he veered into any territory I wasn’t interested in entertaining.....I would say, I’m sorry but we don’t have the sort of relationship to discuss that......

He is not a mind reader or he wouldn’t be smuggly standing there trying to chitchat while you vacillated between murder or tears mentally.

If it helps....either do the what’s the reality.....ie if I watched 2 strangers have this interaction what would I say had occurred......or write out your catastrophizing and then why it’s so clearly not true.

I have to do both.....because I am really good at catastrophizing and letting my brain write an entire 4 part play about what happened complete with the script for everyone’s emotions thoughts and next steps and also the ow for good measure as well.

I often find when I dread an encounter the most is when the most helpful thing I can ask for or pray is “God, let so and so see you in our interaction today. Help me guard my tongue and say what is good and helpful and true.”

If this helps use it...if it doesn’t toss it.

FWIW I personally think you did fantastic, and btw....your emotions....they aren’t anything wrong or to be ashamed of....feel your feelings gurl!  There is nothing wrong with them...they aren’t embarrassing.
Me 36
H 36
S15
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #96 on: November 07, 2019, 08:23:08 PM »
I agree that this is why they say reconciliation is the hardest.  I will say, the more you are around him the easier it will get...slowly.

I have to see mine all the time now and it no longer phases me at all.  So you just need time and grace for yourself.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 39

BD1-April 2018-Unrecognized by me until way later, he is unhappy, wants counseling.
BD2-October 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), OW2(PA) no longer together.  I believe he is single. 
April 2019 He got an apartment and moved out.
Oct 2019-Apologized for a years worth of monster behavior.  Still wants to start divorce this Spring, is distant, but friendly.  Tries more with kids, but mostly just helps haul them around(superficial).

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #97 on: November 08, 2019, 04:26:25 AM »
66, woke up thinking about you this morning and worried that I might have sounded too harsh or been too influenced by my perspective as a non-Stander. If either, I'm sorry.

I think (via PTSD lol) I have come to believe that it is important to say no to things that hurt us profoundly. Which doesn't mean avoiding everything difficult or that big hard emotions are not also part of healing. Only you can figure out how you feel on this Big Distress/Bit of Distress scale or when you are being brave vs self-harming.

As far as I know you are Standing. You are not in reconciliation, maybe not even reconnecting bc it isn't a consistent steady pattern yet...but there is some connection between you obviously. Who knows what will happen. It seems to me that in order to reconnect you would need to be at a place where contact didn't hurt so much or whip you back on the rollercoaster? So maybe that is your next focus and part of 'paving the way' if that is what you want to do?
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #98 on: November 08, 2019, 12:02:54 PM »
The hard truth is, to get to reconnection, or reconciliation, if that’s what you want, takes starting somewhere.  You may not be ready to start talking.  You may need him done with OW first.  As someone who has just walked through this recently, being around them hurts at first.  Horribly.  If you want to reconcile and you can handle it, inch into simple conversation, pleasantries.

It hurts, it’s hard.  I would imagine each step is hard.  But, you cannot get to z without starting at a.  Avoiding him will not bring reconnection, but if you need to avoid him to heal, then do what is best for you.  I avoided mine for months and months, until I was finally ready.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 39

BD1-April 2018-Unrecognized by me until way later, he is unhappy, wants counseling.
BD2-October 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), OW2(PA) no longer together.  I believe he is single. 
April 2019 He got an apartment and moved out.
Oct 2019-Apologized for a years worth of monster behavior.  Still wants to start divorce this Spring, is distant, but friendly.  Tries more with kids, but mostly just helps haul them around(superficial).

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #99 on: November 12, 2019, 07:52:38 AM »
XYZ - thank you for the hugs and yes, it is such a cruel situation, because normally if it causes pain, you avoid the situation, but if we hope even just a little, we cannot avoid contact all together.

Male - thank you - yes, so many layers and not necessary a bad contact, but such a bad emotional outfall from that contact.

Kit - thank you for all the right words and hugs - and yes detachment and no expectations are so important and I know that and yet it's so hard to do, isn't it.

Courage - thank you so much

Treasure - you are never harsh - and you are correct - normally we should avoid anything that we know causes us pain until we have worked through the underlying issues and are better equipped to deal with the triggers. In this MLC nightmare - we cannot be quite as choosey as we have to walk the fine thin line between avoiding the pain and still remaining friendly and the lighthouse. I realized that I somehow do have to figure out why each contact causes such tremendous whiplash and out of control freefalling.

Joy - a friend of mine said the same thing when I said I don't want to be his friend and pretend everything is all hunky dorey. She said, you have to start somewhere and if H needs a little hunky dorey for a while and you want him in your life, you have to suck it up and find away to not hurt so much.

Thunder - as always you make me feel less crazy and I thank you


So, I rented a car to drive up to visit my D. I reserved the smallest class of vehicle, but somehow they gave me a very powerful Dodge Charger.
As i drive along the hills of West Virginia, the thought popped in my mind how easy it would be to just stomp on the gas and run over the hill and not ever feel that pain again. I would never do that because I will not end my pain by causing my D much more horrific pain, but I will be honest the thought crossed my mind for a nano second.

The only reason I am sharing this, is because at that very point, I pulled the car over, stepped out, got on my knees and asked God to take over. It was such a humbling experience - I surrender that I cannot carry this load on my own and I cannot go on like this. Me, the fixer, admitted to God that I need his help in getting through.
I got back in the car and for the first time turned the radio to a Christian station and really, really listened to the lyrics.
Now, i am not saying I am a new person with a new lease on life, and i am not saying that I no longer hurt, but it was a monumental moment for me to ask for help. To be so down with nowhere to go and to realize God is there to pull me through the darkest days.

The rest of the trip went without any other incidents and D and I enjoyed the weekend together. Unfortunately we had to talk about end of life options for the grand rat as her tumor is getting too big - so of course tears were shed for that, but we also had plenty of laughs and good times.

Somebody asked me if I was standing - I don't even know how to answer that. I don't have any interest in pursuing a relationship with somebody else, and I do love that man still with all my heart, but I don't know if that is considered 'standing' per se, but it really doesn't matter what label I put on that.

Something else I realized and I am hoping to get tips and suggestions from you wonderful people here. I realized that for whatever reason I love this man move than I love myself and that is so wrong on so many levels. I need to get to where I love myself more than anybody else, but that feels so wrong, too.
I need to get to where I matter to me. So, any tips on how to start building some self love and self worth are greatly appreciated.

I also realized while pondering all these things that I never accepted reality. My entire life I never was able to accept things just for what they were. As a child you cannot accept that your mom is a drunk and that's just how it is. No, in order to be able to endure that you tell yourself that if you are a better kid or you help more around the house, your mom will realize that she wants to stop drinking. And so every situation in my life that would have required accepting reality turned into if I only do this or that then it will make that person realize that this is not really what they want. Can you say CODEPENDENCY....yup, screwed up for sure....but I need to change that.

Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #100 on: November 12, 2019, 09:53:15 AM »
Can you say CODEPENDENCY....yup, screwed up for sure....but I need to change that.

Schratz you are funny! Truthfully I think many of us here are/were co-dependent. It is why detachment is so difficult. That you recognize this and want to change it is really the most important thing.

Self love. Again, just knowing that you want this is a good start. This is that mirror work they tell us about. So much more important than any GAL could ever be in my humble opinion. GAL is important, but it is also a distraction from really looking at ourselves.

I bet those hills of West Virginia were beautiful. What an amazing epiphany you had. Thank you for sharing your story. Hugs friend.
Me 48
H 47
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Anon

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #101 on: November 12, 2019, 10:30:36 AM »
Quote
I pulled the car over, stepped out, got on my knees and asked God to take over. It was such a humbling experience - I surrender that I cannot carry this load on my own and I cannot go on like this. Me, the fixer, admitted to God that I need his help in getting through.
I love this Schratz and I've done this too,, more than a few times.  It helped me immensely and I hope you found some relief too.  Without God I don't know how I would have come as far as I have or have the strength to continue through the rest of this journey and what lays ahead. 

Quote
I got back in the car and for the first time turned the radio to a Christian station and really, really listened to the lyrics.
I rarely listen to anything else and it's the lyrics that comfort me and give me peace in the midst of some of my darkest days.  I'm glad you tuned in that day,,, to both God and the radio station!

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #102 on: November 13, 2019, 08:26:39 AM »
So, he keeps stopping by my desk every other day now.
How do I handle that ?

Standoffish and polite like he is an acquaintance
Cute and flirty like he is my H
Panicky and irrational like I feel.....ok - scratch that one

I am not sure how to act
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Anon

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #103 on: November 13, 2019, 08:38:42 AM »
Quote
So, he keeps stopping by my desk every other day now.
How do I handle that ?
Mirror him... give him back no more and no less than you get from him first.  If he's friendly, be friendly.  If he's cool & aloof, then be that too.  Many lbs here employ this strategy with their mlc spouse, me included.   Whatever you do, don't try to advance anything to the 'next level'.

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #104 on: November 13, 2019, 08:41:02 AM »
Yes—everything Anon said. Remember o expectations bc they cycle. He’s doing some serious anchor checking isn’t he?
Me 48
H 47
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Couragedearheart

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #105 on: November 13, 2019, 08:41:35 AM »
S66,

How would you like those interactions to be?  How would you like to feel during them?

There is no wrong way to do this.

Figure out how you envision those interactions and then act as if. And find a way for centering yourself, whatever you need to do to be grounded and present in that moment.

What is your anxiety telling you? What message does it say that you need to counter?
Do you need to chant I can do this? I am in control of my emotions, detach detach detach.....whatever message you need to hear in that moment find it.

Then just be you. Not whatever you think you should be, but without expectation or questions or manipulation just ensure that your answers and response are true to yourself. If you need to gather your thoughts, then stop and gather them, if you need to end the conversation then end it, if you need to zipnore....do that....take your time. Focus on and savor this moment to be truly yourself.

Look at all the progress you have made and are making. You are doing great. You are courageous.....and if you don’t believe me....allow me to prove it......you cannot do anything courageous unless you are afraid to do it.  There can be no courage without fear. 
😊❤️.

Me 36
H 36
S15
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline 3Boys4Me

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #106 on: November 13, 2019, 08:44:59 AM »
Schratz,
I think Acorn described her approach with her H like a faucet - H turned the faucets it, so she did, he turned it off, she turns hers off... mirroring, matching, nothing more. Seems reasonable to me, maybe it can help you, and I would focus on under-responding a tad to protect yourself.
BD End of April 2017
Moved out - kind of, May 2017
Denied affair
Cycled hard April - Oct 2017, my son figured out affair, I confronted husband, we were going away as a family for the weekend - H monsters hard and files for a D end of Oct, 2017
D final Sept 2018
Many touch and goes
He lives in monster, kids haven’t been with him overnight since Jan 2019
Moved in with MOW, a former friend of mine, May 2019

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #107 on: November 13, 2019, 08:50:19 AM »
Looks like he wants in on the friend zone, after all.

S, just be yourself.  Don't try to act like something that's not you, he will know it's fake.
If he is friendly, then be friendly too.

I would just caution you against meeting with him somewhere until he has made up his mind.
He is still not your friend, as long as he is with ow.

He may be taking baby steps trying to figure this out. 

I think you're smart enough, and strong enough, to handle this now.   ;)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Acorn

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #108 on: November 13, 2019, 09:09:52 AM »
If I may share what helped me, please.  That’s all one can do, right?  A sample of one!  :D

I tried to let go of framing the interactions between H and me in terms of MLC.  In other words, eventually, I more or less stopped speculating if they were T&G, the ‘uphill’ of rollercoaster, fog clearing momentarily, etc. You get the idea.

Instead of all that MLC hoopla, I endeavoured to see our interactions as ‘just life happening’ - good and bad things come and go; people generally like to have amicable relationship with others, including ex-partners; nothing to read into these interactions. 

This way of thinking freed me from the prison, the wall of which was made up of MLC jargons, and just be my authentic self and interact with H in a natural manner that one would adopt toward anyone that betrayed my trust once upon a time - polite, mildly friendly because I strive to be magnanimous, respond and not react, and, above all, with dignity. 

I dare offer my view that it is possible for LBS to be obsessed with everything MLC to the level of a quasi-religion and leave his/her common sense in the back room. 

Just be sensible you, S66.

Added later: I just read 3boys’ post.  Faucet analogy.  Yes, that’s common sense in real life.  You don’t gush when the other person is hardly glancing at you.  You don’t brush off another person’s friendly interaction.  Don’t overthink it.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 09:12:56 AM by Acorn »
Live-in MLCer
Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline 3Boys4Me

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #109 on: November 13, 2019, 09:38:34 AM »
Acorn, might I add that your explanations/approach are helpful to many of us. Learning about MLC, it’s likely origins, FOO, running behaviors etc really serves me well in the beginning, it allowed me to make some sense out of the unimaginable- however as time has moved forward, that framework also created unhelpful expectations - I’m 2.5 years in and at 2 years boy, I though limersnce would be subsiding and H would begin to “awaken” and turn back to me because yes... we really were madly in love and committed to each other and our family.

Those expectations have contributed to me wallowing, not moving forward, reading far too much into every interaction (he’s a big time clinger - either positive or negative, as long as we respond). By relinquishing the MLC language and just rationally looking at the situation and remembering who I AM, my values, what is important to me, how I choose to treat people and myself - it feels liberating. Thank you.

Schratz, your timeline and mine is almost identical. I am rooting for you. Be true to yourself. Chose your health and well-being first. You are number one.
BD End of April 2017
Moved out - kind of, May 2017
Denied affair
Cycled hard April - Oct 2017, my son figured out affair, I confronted husband, we were going away as a family for the weekend - H monsters hard and files for a D end of Oct, 2017
D final Sept 2018
Many touch and goes
He lives in monster, kids haven’t been with him overnight since Jan 2019
Moved in with MOW, a former friend of mine, May 2019

Offline Acorn

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #110 on: November 13, 2019, 09:57:50 AM »
Learning about MLC, it’s likely origins, FOO, running behaviors etc really serves me well in the beginning, it allowed me to make some sense out of the unimaginable- however as time has moved forward, that framework also created unhelpful expectations

<snip>

By relinquishing the MLC language and just rationally looking at the situation and remembering who I AM, my values, what is important to me, how I choose to treat people and myself - it feels liberating.


I’m glad my ramblings are helpful to you, 3.
I, too, have walked the path of learning everything I could about MLC, put the MLC glasses on, try to decipher every move and word of H through the MLC lens and then there came a time all that obsession with MLC process became a major hinderance to living my life to the full. 

I dare suggest that one of the major differences between thriving LBSs and those who are stuck is the presence or absence of her obsession with MLC process.  I hold the view that when you have learned the basics of MLC, move on.  Don’t refer to all that information like some sacred text.  Besides, it’s most likely MLCers never read about the MLC stages ::) and have no idea they need to get going in that dark tunnel.  Whatever.

My wake-up call was what my counsellor said to me when I pontificated about where H was in the MLC tunnel and what his words and actions meant.  He said, ‘Just live!’

Sorry, S66, for the hijack.  :P

« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 10:06:14 AM by Acorn »
Live-in MLCer
Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #111 on: November 13, 2019, 10:21:37 AM »
No apologies necessary at all - I love all the wisdom pouring in.

Thank you all - this really makes sense. Mirror him - Faucet on, faucet off...yes.
Of course it is funny and yet sad all at the same time that I am asking you how to act around my own H. And maybe it was too much MLC jargon or learning about it that has me second guessing everything I do in regards to him, so I do agree that I have to find the magical in between. Knowing about MLC, but not obsessing over it.

Thunder - even if I wanted to, I do not think that I could meet with him right now - I am still way too shaken from the last meeting. I need to put my sanity above all if I want to come out of this a better person and more importantly a healthy and whole person.
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #112 on: November 13, 2019, 10:33:03 AM »
I agree, honey.

Just take things slow and see what happens.
I doubt he would be ballsy enough to ask you out knowing you know she is still around.
At least I hope not.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Acorn

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #113 on: November 13, 2019, 10:47:52 AM »

And maybe it was too much MLC jargon or learning about it that has me second guessing everything I do in regards to him, so I do agree that I have to find the magical in between.


May I share what I did to try to catch that ‘magical in between’?  And now, don’t laugh, OK?

When H and I interacted, face to face, while he was still residing in the depth of the tunnel, I purposefully became ultra conscious of my body.  I learned it by practising mindfulness every morning.  I tried to keep all my muscles relaxed, especially my face.  I tried to keep my body still, not tense.  If I moved, it was very small and slow movement.  That had a positive impact on my emotional equilibrium and helped me to respond, not react. 

Just sayin’.   ;)
Live-in MLCer
Feb 2015: BD.  H has a Nuclear meltdown. 
Oct 2015: ILYBIANILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #114 on: November 13, 2019, 11:30:31 AM »
Hi Schratz,  Reading along and from this distance you seem to be handling the "close encounters" very well.  Baby steps as Thunder suggested. I know how you feel--part of me wants friendly as a first step, but not if it is only intended to end at "friendly."  Too much pain.  If we could only close our hearts for a while with every encounter then it would be so much easier to get to the other side, regardless of what is on that other side. We are all here because we have hearts.   

Everyone else gave great advice, so I have nothing wise to add, but I just wanted to send hugs and support.  I can understand your dark moment on the hills of West Virginia.  I seem to have more dark moments now than in the prior two years, so perhaps that is a part of our healing.  Maybe those moments propel us to leave the deep abyss.  Something like a rising phoenix?  I do not know.  But we are all riding alongside together. 
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #115 on: November 14, 2019, 05:02:05 AM »
And Mal I am so glad we are all in this together.
Woke up this morning and thought don’t we all deserve someone that wants to be with us because they want to be with “us” and not because it didn’t work out with OW.
Doesn’t that make us doormats ?
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #116 on: November 14, 2019, 07:07:13 AM »
Quote
I hold the view that when you have learned the basics of MLC, move on.

Acorn said this oh so well.

When you accept that your spouse is in a crisis, you also learn to accept that nothing we know about healthy relationships applies to our situation. People have affairs and do not have a crisis.People leave marriages and do not have a crisis.

Quote
don’t we all deserve someone that wants to be with us because they want to be with “us” and not because it didn’t work out with OW.

When someone comes out of the tunnel of MLC and returns home, it isn't because it didn't work out with OW. It is because they have resolved some of the issues that sent them into the crisis in the first place.

Remember, their crisis is not about us and not about our marriage

yet we question this over and over again.

Quote
Doesn’t that make us doormats ?

I don't think so. We loved our spouses, we had really good marriages. The person they become is such an aberration yet somewhere inside is a very lost and confused individual ...remaining faithful to them is an individual decision and each of us gets to choose. 

It's not about what we "deserve"......it just is not that simple.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #117 on: November 14, 2019, 07:17:55 AM »
I agree with xyzcf.

How are you being a doormat anyway?  I sure don't see it.
You're not chasing him, or begging him to come back to wipe his feet on you while he has an ow.

THAT is being a doormat.

You're being a cool cucumber.   ;)
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #118 on: November 14, 2019, 07:27:51 AM »
Quote
don’t we all deserve someone that wants to be with us because they want to be with “us” and not because it didn’t work out with OW.

When someone comes out of the tunnel of MLC and returns home, it isn't because it didn't work out with OW. It is because they have resolved some of the issues that sent them into the crisis in the first place.

Remember, their crisis is not about us and not about our marriage

yet we question this over and over again.

And this is the point where the whole MLC-Theory gets sticky.....

Does the MLC'er finally work through their stuff because the affair didn't work out? Or did they finally take responsibility for their own issues and work through them and therefore realize that the Alienator (regardless if it was a person, work, a hobby, whatever that took the place of the LBS in their lives)   was a "Band-Aid" covering a much deeper wound? I think that, based on what has been written in the forum that I have read over the past 3 years, there are those on both sides.

Now, this is just my impression but it seems that those truly dedicated to reconciliation have done their work whereas others come back half-rare and uncooked simply because they didn't have another option available at the time.... Does that mean that they won't finally get their heads on straight? No telling but, for the LBS in that 2nd situation, I could envision that it would certainly appear that they are "Plan B" if the Mid-Lifer has an "early return."

From what I have read to date, the few real reconnection-to-reconciliation stories that we have here, the Mid-Lifer approaches the whole thing differently than those suffering from Alienator Withdrawal. I don't say that those coming back early will not transition to "responsibility" but I could certainly see who the LBS could feel like "Plan B" in that situation if the Mid-Lifer is still in Withdrawal....

It does raise more than a few philosophical questions....

I agree with xyzcf.

How are you being a doormat anyway?  I sure don't see it.
You're not chasing him, or begging him to come back to wipe his feet on you while he has an ow.

THAT is being a doormat.

You're being a cool cucumber.   ;)

EXACTLY THIS! One poster had in her Tagline "Lighthouses don't chase ships all over the ocean. They stand serenely on the shore an wait for the ships to use them to find their way to safety" (or something like that)
Me - 56
xW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #119 on: November 14, 2019, 07:54:44 AM »
Thank you xy, Thunder and Ursa….
As always brilliant minds explaining complicated issues an I value your views because you have been on this forum and seen so many of these MLCs.

I didn't feel like a doormat and was just loving from afar. I did not beg and I still don't.  I didn't obsess over OW because truly she had nothing to do with his crisis either other than be available at the right time and pursuing him. I blame those darn monkeys we hear about...lol...but since that meeting with H where he kept talking about the R with OW not working out and not knowing if he really is done with our M - that sort of got those monkeys screeching like banshees. And at that point it feels like he will only consider returning if things with OW do not work out.

On the other hand though - I know he never stopped loving me. Do I think he has learned anything or done any work on his issues ? No, I do not. Which then would make a repeat of the entire mess much more likely. Do some of them never do any internal work and just keep going with whoever is available ? Might be the wife if she's willing, might be OW 2 if they can find one ?

in my twisted mind, I saw a cool new computer game being developed by Ursa where ships chase the lighthouse like the silly Whack-a-mole game....lol.....

Seriously though once again you have answered my mental gymnastics and I appreciate it very much.

The rest of the day will be spent doing an animal transport for a dog whose owner fell ill and he's been through several homes already and we finally found him his forever home in Kentucky - so we are transporting him there. Keep your fingers crossed for a happy ending for this little fellow.



Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #120 on: November 14, 2019, 08:04:20 AM »
Quote
Do some of them never do any internal work and just keep going with whoever is available ? Might be the wife if she's willing, might be OW 2 if they can find one ?

Unfortunately yes. xFIL(RIP) was one of those... NEVER looked int eh mirror, NEVER did ANY sort of work on his own issues, just kept pointing the finger and playing the blame game ... His R's got shorter and shorter (cycling faster an faster) until he died (literally) of congestive heart failure.... And that was the trigger for xW to launch off on her own MLC... The apple doesn't fall far from the tree as they say but xW is a Grade A Wallower...
Me - 56
xW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline FearNot

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #121 on: November 15, 2019, 12:13:54 PM »
S66,

You have had a lot going on and I think you have handled it famously!! I like what Acorn said about thinking about it as "life just happening" vs. all the MLC  hoopla. I know for me in some ways dealing with H's MLC almost became an identity of sorts. I got really caught in the MLC vortex, labeling every movement  and second guessing every move I made, thinking it had any bearing on the outcome. It's only been in the last while that I really don't put much thought into it. Slightly different for myself though, I haven't had to have any face to face interaction in over a year.

I haven't listened to mainstream music since BD. I started listening to Christian, initially because I couldn't handle the lovey lyrics, memories etc attached to the music. Now I listened because I to find it comforting, calming, encouraging and more! Not sure if this interests you or perhaps you've seen it but the movie "I can only Imagine" based on Mercy Me's song, was really good!! (some scenes are difficult to watch, so if physical abuse/abandonment is a trigger, maybe not). But it's a great story of faith!


Praying for a happy ending and a forever home for pooch!
Hugs and Prayers,
FN



M 48
H 41
No Kids
Married 5yrs, Together 11yrs
BD Oct 31/17
ILYBINILWY Dec 21/17
2nd BD- Dec 27/17
OW-Confirmed Jan 3/18

 Isaiah 43:1 " But the Lord says.. Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. "

"It's ok to be scared. Being scared means you're about to do something really, really brave." Anonymous

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #122 on: November 16, 2019, 10:25:59 AM »
Pooch rescue trip went well and the lady seems to be a great fit so I am really excited for the little fellow.
This morning I woke up to another message from H. Another of his mothers cat passed away and he just wanted to let me know. Now mind you, I hadn’t seen any of these animals since BD since his mom shunned me the minute he left so why he still has the need to tell me when they pass I have no clue. He has initiated contact three times as much in the last two weeks than in the last two years.
Just weird and beyond my understanding.

The last few days when I start overthinking or obsessing, I gently remind myself that I asked God to carry the load for me so I have to let it go and let go take care of it.

Oh and my brother emailed me that he ended his last affair because it hit too stressful. Not sure if he was looking for an atta boy or what but I didn’t even reply. Some people simply have no clue.

Trying to figure out what to get into this weekend for myself. Might build a squirrel house to keep them safe and warm. And maybe fit in a nice long bike ride just to get out of the house.

Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #123 on: November 16, 2019, 02:36:36 PM »
66, you are rocking it now...I can feel a sense of breathing out peace coming off the page
There is something very calming about observing the crazy folks, shrugging and then getting on with lovely things like planning a squirrel house...look how far you have come  x
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 02:38:22 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #124 on: November 18, 2019, 07:12:21 AM »
Treasur - I only wish I was calm and rocking it.
Those darn monkeys won't leave me be.

But I am trying to figure out why those monkeys are so persistent and last night I had a thought - I am terrified. There I said it. I am holding onto something that already left because I am terrified. Terrified of being lonely - not alone. I have always been a loner, and I am okay being alone, but I am terrified of my heart being lonely if I lose him forever. He brought such joy and sunshine into my heart and I miss that. I miss having a sunny, happy heart and soul and I am terrified of never having that again. So, then they say you must find a way to find that without him....don't get me wrong - my daughter brings me joy and love, but it's not quite the same.
A horse would bring me joy and sunshine, but also loss and sorrow - see, now I see always the dark side with every bright side as to where before I was the eternal optimist in life. Anyhow - I cannot afford a horse anyway.

So, how do we fight that fear and find something to bring us the same joy and happiness as the MLC did ?

Meanwhile, he stopped by again this morning for a laptop loaner - you can tell he is so uncomfortable - like a middle schooler really, and he looks terrible. Lost a lot of weight and just looks heavy and sad. Then I thought really what he told me at the drinks meeting was the exact same thing he told me 2 years ago......blablabla….not sure...blablabla….no false hope...blablabla - so he hasn't grasped anything in 2 years really. Not that life is short, not that you need to figure things out, not a darn thing...…

However, at least I have mastered a few things....lawn mower carburetor, flat car tire and yesterday on my bike ride a flat bike tire in the rear which is a pain due to all the gears - I broke 2 nails and had grease up to my elbows, but I git that tire changed and was able to ride on. But in the end I still miss that miserable oaf of a man and just want to shake him and tell him to quit wasting precious time.

Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #125 on: November 18, 2019, 07:19:47 AM »
Good for you, S.  I'd be proud as heck if I could fix a chain on my bike!

Just keep in mind, 2 years in not a long time in La La Land.

He seems to be baking nicely.   ;D  Keep the temperature where it's at, but no peeking in the oven.  Keep the door closed for now.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline FearNot

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #126 on: November 19, 2019, 02:27:52 PM »
Perhaps you've heard this one, but it's my go to for fear!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQTnREEtuNk
M 48
H 41
No Kids
Married 5yrs, Together 11yrs
BD Oct 31/17
ILYBINILWY Dec 21/17
2nd BD- Dec 27/17
OW-Confirmed Jan 3/18

 Isaiah 43:1 " But the Lord says.. Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. "

"It's ok to be scared. Being scared means you're about to do something really, really brave." Anonymous

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #127 on: November 19, 2019, 05:43:23 PM »
Schratz, I certainly think you are rocking it.  Carburetors, tires, long bike rides.  Next you will be chasing those monkeys away. Is there a local place where you could ride or "rent" a horse?  I have friends with horses and they are always riding or sharing. 

How do we fight the fear?  Maybe the joy was in us and their presence merely reflected it back.  I am starting to believe that we, the LBS army, were actually the stronger spouses in our relationships.  We just did not realize it at the time. 

(FearNot, thank you for sharing the song.  I know it wasn't for me, but it made me feel better, too!)
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #128 on: November 19, 2019, 11:20:19 PM »
66...how very healthy of you to be so honest.
Imho fear is horrible but also educational. And i speak as someone who was paralysed by fear pretty much for about two years. Reminded me a bit of a segment from Fawlty Towers when Sybil is talking about her mother...'fear of enclosed spaces..open spaces....' lol. I think there is a stage when we know we feel afraid but are not entirely sure quite what is terrifying us. Working through the layers to find it is important and part of moving forward.

In my case, I found my deepest fears were about two things; that I didn't really matter to anyone and never would again, a kind of invisible insignificance, and that I would never be like myself again or be able to trust myself again which was more about missing who I used to be. And those fears came out in weird ways sometimes. Neither were about my xh per se...they were effects of his actions, sure, as well as other events...but he could not have fixed them even if he had cared enough to do so. At most, he probably fed them perhaps. And in my experience, fear was definitely tangled up with grief.

I found the depth of my fear was so bizarre to me that fear of being an afraid person became part of the problem. The Fear vs the fear. Bc I didn't know this afraid person, i simply had never felt this way in my life before. Which made me yearn as you say for the woman I used to be and how it felt to be her...which of course fed the fear that I would never, ever be that woman again. Bc I liked her and I liked being her. It was almost like mourning for myself...the woman who used to jump on a plane to see a client without thinking about it rather than the woman who was afraid of trains lol.  I nodded my head when I read your description of seeing the dark side to things now in a way you didn't before.

What helped? Other than PTSD treatment lol. Time. Nibbling at it. Being honest about the fears. Banning words like 'never' and 'always' and replacing them with 'i don't know' and 'right now'. Taking a few minutes to point moments out to myself when I felt like the original me rather than the battered one, or when a fear of the dark side did not turn out to be true. Reminding myself of what was real and tangible and in front of me today as opposed to the long list of things that might be so some future day. Reminding myself that rationally if life could suddenly take a horrific left turn it was just as possible for it to take a sudden positive right turn. Counting at least three things I was grateful for at the end of each day was surprisingly effective....perhaps just bc it directs your eye to what you like/have as opposed to what you fear/don't have?

Above all 66, it is normal to feel this way. More than that, feeling it and being able to say so is a really big step in healing  :)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 11:21:52 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #129 on: November 20, 2019, 06:53:02 AM »
Fear - added that song to my playlist - love it - thank you so much

Mal - thank you for your support and kindness - I am looking into volunteering at the nearby stables so at least I can smell and feel horses and that's a great start - thanks so much

Treasur -
Quote
I found my deepest fears were about two things; that I didn't really matter to anyone and never would again... Neither were about my xh per se....he could not have fixed them even if he had cared enough to do so
This right there - you put the right words down that I couldn't. I just keep rereading that powerful excerpt and it takes my breath away how accurate and to the point that is. Yes, that is my fear - and I have never been a woman that was afraid of anything or anybody really. Well, except crickets and frogs - but never have I ever been afraid to leap before looking, always believed I could and believed in limitless possibilities in life. I was that empowered, positive, life loving woman that woke up with a smile on her face and couldn't wait to see what the day brought. Now, I wake up and dread what new hurt or new emptiness the day will possibly bring and I don't like this new version of me, but I never considered that I am mourning the loss of myself as well and not just him and 'us'.

This will take a couple of days for me to take in and process for sure - and I feel better knowing now exactly what it is that I am so afraid of, so I cannot thank you enough for putting it into words Treasur. I really appreciate your insight and wisdom.

Quote
Reminding myself of what was real and tangible and in front of me today as opposed to the long list of things that might be so some future day. Reminding myself that rationally if life could suddenly take a horrific left turn it was just as possible for it to take a sudden positive right turn.


Thanks for these tips - I will certainly keep chanting them to myself.

And in case I haven't mentioned it lately - one of the best things I ever did was to join this forum. There is so much wisdom and love and support here that without it I would have ended up in a ditch somewhere no doubt. You all are my life savers, my family an my BFFs that are straight up with me when I need it and holding my head up high when I need that. So very grateful for every one of you.
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #130 on: November 27, 2019, 06:06:30 PM »
Not the best couple of days. Grand rat Rita passed away yesterday and D found out that she missed the National teaching exam by one point.
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #131 on: November 27, 2019, 09:52:33 PM »
Aw S, I'm so sorry to hear that.

RIP Rita.

S when can your D be able to take the test again?  Is there like a waiting period to redo the test?
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #132 on: November 29, 2019, 04:53:12 AM »
Oh no (to both things)!

I hope that D doesn't have to wait long to retake the test. One point has to be as frustrating as all get out...
Me - 56
xW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #133 on: December 02, 2019, 11:15:52 AM »
The good news is that after some research in what can be done about missing that exam by one single point, D can resubmit any of the four research tasks she submitted by the middle of December and they will regrade those to see if she can match that one point. Of course, there is an additional review fee to the already $ 350.00 exam fee, but that's okay.

I mean - one point.... I have to say D took it better than I.....

Needless to say Thanksgiving was a tad muted at my house, but D and I still managed to get some laughs in. We cooked the turkey and baked some cookies and played board games all day after finishing our 5k Turkey Trot Event.

Not unexpectedly I had been rehashing everything since the drinks with MLC over and over and over again and I finally realized that I just keep breaking my own heart over. By what ? By what exactly I am not supposed to have....Expectations....hoping that he will see the light......Expectations...that he actually meant that he wants me in his life.......
So, to stop all this craziness my new mantra to say to myself when my thoughts drift towards MLC is: "Salt - Wound - Pain" - because that is what I am doing by rehashing everything a million times.

A wound cannot heal if I keep pouring Salt in it and expect a different outcome than more pain.

Hoping this will keep me a tad saner for the next few months than I have been. Next 5k coming up this weekend and I kind of like this new active me :)

Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Online UrsaMajor

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #134 on: December 03, 2019, 01:00:47 AM »
A wound cannot heal if I keep pouring Salt in it and expect a different outcome than more pain.

And the light dawned in the East....

Yes, this is exactly it. As long as the LBS is busy looking at their belly button or focusing on the Mid-Lifer, their life is not going to get better.... Being active and loosing the expectation that what comes out of a a Mid-Lifers mouth has any sort of validity to it are positive steps int he right direction....
Me - 56
xW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #135 on: December 03, 2019, 01:25:32 AM »
Imho it is a very healthy stage to reach when we choose to move away from things that we know from repeated experience cause us pain or confusion. Salt-wound-pain indeed. Good call, 66. I suspect that you will find your perspective shifts as you do more of this. That you will be less concerned about what he thinks of you or how to act around him, and more aware that he is not worth much of your time or energy bc he is no longer worthy of it as he is.

Awestruck by the combo of a 5k trot plus a thanksgiving dinner  :)

Great news about your daughter's exam too...hopefully that 1 point will turn out to be nothing more than a blip on her path.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 01:30:56 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #136 on: December 03, 2019, 06:02:11 AM »
Schratz, So sorry about Rita R and your daughter's exam. Love that she is resourceful (must get it from you) and found a new solution.

Sad, but understand about breaking your own heart over and over. It is hard when we have these little glimpses. But we bounce, right? Actually, you do more than bounce, you ride bikes and you run. Am impressed by your Turket trot. Onto the next race!
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline FearNot

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #137 on: December 03, 2019, 10:27:30 AM »
Sorry to hear about Rita and that's great news about your daughters exam! Praying it goes in her favor.

Sounds like you have put another piece of the puzzle together S66! And you go girl! I am totally impressed by the active S66. She's kicking ass!

Hugs N Prayers,
FN
M 48
H 41
No Kids
Married 5yrs, Together 11yrs
BD Oct 31/17
ILYBINILWY Dec 21/17
2nd BD- Dec 27/17
OW-Confirmed Jan 3/18

 Isaiah 43:1 " But the Lord says.. Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. "

"It's ok to be scared. Being scared means you're about to do something really, really brave." Anonymous

Offline KeepItTogether

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #138 on: December 03, 2019, 10:37:15 AM »
Missed by 1 point???? Well I am happy they will do a review then.

I so understand about the salt-wound-pain thing too. My MLCer loves to keep me dangling. But I think I have finally gotten to a point where I know he is just lost. It is sad for him but honestly the less contact I have with him the better I feel. Although honestly it is probably a giant relief to him that I've gone pretty dim lately. And even though mine is way less contact than ever, he still clings. And the moment he thinks I am moving on at all, he will through the net out.  And I have fallen for it every time. But no more. we can be kind, and dark at the same time. They need to heal all on their own. We wouldn't want them back in their present state right? Nor would we want the "man" who has to be instructed as to what steps to take next. Like Acorn has said over and over, it is about reaching that level of emotional maturity. Mostly for the MLCer....but maybe a little for us too.

Your Thanksgiving sounds wonderful!


Awestruck by the combo of a 5k trot plus a thanksgiving dinner  :)


Me too!
 
Me 48
H 47
S12
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #139 on: December 04, 2019, 11:01:04 AM »
Thank you all for your kind words.....
Would like feedback on something somebody said to me yesterday...
They asked: Have you used the words "I want you to come back H"

No, I have not - I never wanted this and I told him when he left that I love him and always would and over the last year in some of the contacts I made sure he knew (unless he's a complete knucklehead) but, I never used those exact words.....
My question to you....should I ?

My thoughts on it is no...because it would seem like pressuring him - it would seem like I am begging and I really want him to make that realization on his own ...but then that little devil speaks and says, what if he doesn't know that's what you want ?

Just could use some feedback to get that little devil out of my ear and thoughts
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #140 on: December 04, 2019, 11:50:20 AM »
I would humbly suggest two thoughts.
He knows, 66, he knows.
And right now, truthfully, you don't want him back as he is and until he is ready to own his side of the street and treat yours with basic care. Jmo.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline xyzcf

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #141 on: December 04, 2019, 12:24:41 PM »
I have not used those words nor do I think it would be a good idea to.

By my actions, he knows very well how I feel.

They have to figure it out, they have to be ready....and then there will be time for words.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Anon

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #142 on: December 04, 2019, 07:09:44 PM »
Ahh, no way would I say that.  Not right now anyway.  Not a chance.  If the day ever comes when h recovers and heals enough to even think about coming back, he would have to be showing me that intent in little and big ways and eventually just tell me he wants to come home.  After much reflection on that and if I wanted it, I would ask him to come home.   Until then. I wouldn’t waste any time thinking about it.  But that’s just me.  I would need to know he is sure and brave enough to tell me.   

Offline Maleficent

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #143 on: December 05, 2019, 05:20:01 AM »
Hi Schratz, I agree with the others, he knows. And he did expect ow might be done by Christmas. If that is true, then he will need time then to process and you can go on being your fabulous self.
Friends in RL have given me all sorts of advice about sitting down and talking and having dinner, etc.  I am not sure they really understand the odd dynamics. None of this was "normal" if there even is such a thing as normal. You will know in your heart if there is a right moment, so silence the little devil in your ear. And take good care of yourself.
BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

Offline FearNot

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #144 on: December 05, 2019, 07:32:19 AM »
I agree with the rest S66. Wasted words at this point in time, but there is always hope that one day, when he has come through all this, they can be said.

Hugs N Prayers,
FN
M 48
H 41
No Kids
Married 5yrs, Together 11yrs
BD Oct 31/17
ILYBINILWY Dec 21/17
2nd BD- Dec 27/17
OW-Confirmed Jan 3/18

 Isaiah 43:1 " But the Lord says.. Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. "

"It's ok to be scared. Being scared means you're about to do something really, really brave." Anonymous

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #145 on: December 05, 2019, 11:13:47 AM »
Thank you all - exactly my thoughts, but you know how some times we doubt our own judgement - more now than ever...
So, I appreciate you all putting my crazy train back on the even keels of just doing my thing...

Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline FearNot

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #146 on: December 05, 2019, 12:28:31 PM »
It's really tough to learn to trust ourselves after going through the grinder!!
M 48
H 41
No Kids
Married 5yrs, Together 11yrs
BD Oct 31/17
ILYBINILWY Dec 21/17
2nd BD- Dec 27/17
OW-Confirmed Jan 3/18

 Isaiah 43:1 " But the Lord says.. Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are mine. "

"It's ok to be scared. Being scared means you're about to do something really, really brave." Anonymous

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #147 on: December 06, 2019, 01:31:50 PM »
MLC Ding get it, do they ? At least mine doesn’t. No thought about how any of it has affected me. After a few weeks of no contact, he sends a message about the ignorance of some of the coworkers regarding WW II. Backstory - H and I work in corrections and a graduating class of correction officers posed for a pic with the Nazi salute which just made national news.

H always been a history buff and me being from Germany - we often talked about history and war. Well, I guess he needed somebody to vent with and most coworkers and I guess OW don’t know much so he needed to send me a message. Not a personal note just spewing about ignorance and such.

I’m not his buddy, his intellectual friend any more. He has no clue how much he hurt me over these years. You can’t pick and choose like that. Oh, I’ll sleep with OW but if I want to talk politics or history I’ll just talk to schratz. No. That’s not how that works dummy.

But since I am the lighthouse and don’t want to ignore any contact no matter how far fetched - I casually responded that yes it was sad how people do not have any knowledge of that era in history and that this hit close to home.

He immediately replied throwing in my petname and that he knew I would have a somber thought about it all.

Why can they not let us go if they are so freaking happy with OW - why sprinkle in the beloved petname every so often - is that supposed to comfort us ??? Ugh - ugh. So self absorbed - unbelievable.

But now back to my own program. Starting a new Ann Cleeves book tonight and tomorrow my second 5k.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 02:07:18 PM by Schratz66 »
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #148 on: December 06, 2019, 05:28:10 PM »
So, I told him that using my petname really hurt me as I still love him.
His reply: He is so sorry but he loves me and will always love me and he’s terribly sorry.
I couldn’t leave it alone and said: no apologies necessary but did she know that he loved me

Now - of course crickets.
I shouldn’t have I know.
I hope no permanent damage in the long run.
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline 3Boys4Me

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #149 on: December 06, 2019, 09:28:42 PM »
Oh Schratz, I wouldn’t know what to do with that. He’s testing the waters.
BD End of April 2017
Moved out - kind of, May 2017
Denied affair
Cycled hard April - Oct 2017, my son figured out affair, I confronted husband, we were going away as a family for the weekend - H monsters hard and files for a D end of Oct, 2017
D final Sept 2018
Many touch and goes
He lives in monster, kids haven’t been with him overnight since Jan 2019
Moved in with MOW, a former friend of mine, May 2019

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #150 on: December 06, 2019, 10:28:17 PM »
You did it; it's done. It won't matter.
But you got hurt. Probably twice. So, next time you can choose to ignore the first text and see it as the anchor check it was. Or ignore the pet name response and not tell him it hurts. You are in control of how much you play this game, my friend.
I hope you know that real love does not hurt you and real sorry takes action. Words are just words.
But it won't matter in the scheme of things, 66.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Reinventing

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #151 on: December 06, 2019, 11:47:21 PM »
Well said.

Offline Schratz66Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #152 on: December 07, 2019, 04:54:53 AM »
Treasur - as usual you are right - it hurt twice. And then something in me broke and died. It’s been 2 1/2 years and he still uses the same phrases. I love you and always will - I’m not at a decision point - I don’t want to give you false hope.....
He has not changed one bit and I’m still in the same spot looking for signs and reasons why he would / should come back. I’ve been beating a dead horse and checking for signs of life when there isn’t any.
I feel like I had a death in the family right now. Maybe that’s a new phase of grief for me to work through. Hope has gone and I feel lost all over again.

I know they try to be noble when they tell us they love us and always will - but it’s insulting and feels like they are patronizing us.

Didn’t sleep last night. Not sure how I’ll survive the race this morning but I’ll better lace up my shoes now 
Me 53
H 51
AD 22 from previous R
Known H since 1993
Together since 2000
BD 06/21/2017
OW High School Sweetheart lives 4 hrs away

Offline Thunder

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #153 on: December 07, 2019, 05:19:47 AM »
Run it off, S!

Yes I know what you mean, it's like they don't want to completely devastate you so they say something that just gives you that little bit of hope.  Ugh!

I remember a few days after my H's BD.  Still had no clue about MLC.
I said to him.."I don't understand how you just fall out of love like that."

His answer?  "Who ever said I didn't love you" 

Um ok...so you want a D but you still love me.  Like what, a sister???    ::)  ???

Time to start a new thread S, after your run of course.  Good luck!
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: Insert Clever Title here....
« Reply #154 on: December 07, 2019, 07:05:55 AM »
Yeah...run it off, 66, go you!
Another perspective on it.

I honestly don't believe they love us while they are in crisis. I know some people disagree; I just think they are too emotionally stunted to love anyone in a real way. They may get flickers of remembering how it felt when they did, or have a sense of attachment or want a bit of familiarity or feel a sense of need. And sometimes they hate us or resent us. Mostly tbh I believe we are forgotten objects of indifference. Even when it sounds as if they feel something...we are still objects, just with different coloured covers. Some pretty coloured, some not.

I don't think they are being 'noble' at all....whatever reason behind it, if they are still in crisis, is about them. The old Me Me which is so abnormal in a healthy adult. Don't think I have seen a single spouse here who can do real empathy while still in crisis. Tbh they are not even very good at faking it lol.

And tbh I believe that the same is true for every other human in their life...ow, om, kids, friends, family. Every other human is an object to them....all that changes is what cover they put on at a given time.

You know what love looks and sounds and feels like. So do I.
This is not it. It may be a mixed bag of a whole bunch of things, but it is not love.

I also wonder sometimes whether that last swallow of grief that comes of really dropping the rope is in a strange way a gift from God. Most LBS worry that it means we no longer love them or that we will lose a last link. But actually I susoect it pushes us to detach enough that we no longer get hurt and bc of that we no longer need to judge them so much. Well, judge the behaviour sure, but not the person. So in a weird way it actually helps us protect the remnant of the love we have for them as a damaged human being bc we love from much further away and with less hurt or horror or anger or frustration...if that makes sense.

Tbh i susoect one needs to reach that stage in order to be detached enough to even nibble on reconnection bc it would be too stressful if one were not. Maybe God knows that too.

Don't let go of Hope, my friend. Just teach yourself to Hope differently and maybe for different things for a while.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 07:18:57 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

 

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