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Author Topic: My Story He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage

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My Story He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
OP: September 20, 2019, 04:05:03 AM
Quite a good time for a new thread...

Here’s the old thread:
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10870.0


MLC History
2014 - H’s MLC began
2015 - H started making changes to his and our lives, possible denial phase
2016 - BD1 and terrible year of anger and beginning of depression from H
2017 - BD2 I find out about MOW.  H still with much anger and depression and withdrawal moved out to stay with his parents. MOW wants to work at her marriage which is ‘lucky
2018 - H in withdrawal but decent towards me so I have a bit of ‘hope
2019 - Keeping my ‘patience’ as H seems to be around less but seems to be better when he is around, and I am working towards this not affecting my precious ‘happiness’.
Sept 2019 - BD3 Being ‘strong’ has helped me after learning H has OW2, a young 30 year old and he thinks it’s no big deal as he left us 2 years ago so assume she also thinks it’s ok


I do love having my theme words for each new thread but put pressure on myself to get the right word each time! I rule out anything negative and want it to mean something for that time. I struggled this time as my thread finished quite quickly and I should have more on my mind than getting the right word but I am there- courage.

I’m going to need it.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#1: September 20, 2019, 04:19:04 AM
You could have had "Anticipation" too since you closed your thread before I could come along with a GIF of a police car.... <snort>
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Me - 57, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 13, D - 9
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#2: September 20, 2019, 04:26:26 AM
You could have had "Anticipation" too since you closed your thread before I could come along with a GIF of a police car.... <snort>

Ha ha, the thought of that makes me panic! Dont like getting told off as feel like i’ve Had a fail for the day! Not today though!

I would like a brown lion from wizard of Oz to go with my courage theme though if that helps?!

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#3: September 20, 2019, 04:31:07 AM
You could have had "Anticipation" too since you closed your thread before I could come along with a GIF of a police car.... <snort>

Ha ha, the thought of that makes me panic! Dont like getting told off as feel like i’ve Had a fail for the day! Not today though!

I would like a brown lion from wizard of Oz to go with my courage theme though if that helps?!

Rose 🌹

Here you go....

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Me - 57, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 13, D - 9
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#4: September 20, 2019, 04:35:28 AM
Welcome to your new thread, Rose.

My dear this man is still cooking, no need wasting time watching the oven.

"Courage" I like that.  ;D
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#5: September 20, 2019, 05:17:03 AM
Following along Rose. I agree . Don't let this bring you backwards. Keep moving.
I know it's hard, but try and see it as H crisis is still going on. Nothing changed. He may fall back, but not you. You have worked too hard.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#6: September 20, 2019, 05:53:41 AM
Yes he is still in crisis and it’s going to be for a good while. However it changes things for me. Coming on here it seems obvious that he’s following the ‘script’ but when I was chatting with him it was more like reality where he now has a gf who he has been on vacation with and sees a lot as is always at choir things. She doesnt seem to have any ties so I can only assume they will continue for a while. Either way i’m Not keeping this secret again as I need to live in that real world. In my heart I understand he’s moving through and do think he will regret all of this and that he’s making bad choices but maybe he’ll never get to that point or if so it could be another5-10 years.

If I could somehow keep this house for the next 5 years, i’d Be happy with that and see what I want to do after that as the children will be older (10 years would be better but 5 would do).

He’s a laughing stock really and i’ve tried long enough to hide it from family and friends. I’m not Going to label myself as ‘standing’ or not. I’m probably like PJ, an iffer. This changes things hugely for me but I still understand it’s a dis-ease, to be expected and that chances are one day he will recover. I still don’t hate him much or have anger but I don’t respect him and if we didn’t have children I would probably never see him again.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#7: September 20, 2019, 06:30:17 AM
Attaching, Rose!
“Courage’.  I like it a lot.  Because it’s the fuel for your patience and strength. 
((((((HUGS)))))
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My first thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8164.150

My reconnecting thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10524.msg699615#msg699615

Live-in MLCer

Feb 2015: BD. 
Oct 2015: ILYBINILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#8: September 20, 2019, 07:17:07 AM
Has anyone seen this film? ‘Touching the void’?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t65VrYZ2U9s

Without giving it all away there’s a part where the guy says he had to either sit there and have certain death on the mountain or climb down into a black hole and maybe die or maybe not die. It took courage to climb down. As LBS we sometimes need that courage too.

It’s a film I watched years and years ago and never forgot it. This year S was writing something for school and it reminded me of this film and so I looked it up and we watched it again. Its in my heart now as it’s such an incredible film.  Now that I think about it the second half of the film could be compared to the LBS journey. You’ll know what I mean if you have watched it. If not I do recommend it. A snail doing a marathon has nothing on this.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#9: September 20, 2019, 07:56:24 AM
Following along Rose. You've come a long way, even if your H hasn't.

Welcome to the Iffer club.

Courage - I like your new theme. You are a lioness, Rose!
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"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019
Divorce final - September 2019
Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11537.new#new

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#10: September 20, 2019, 08:07:07 AM
Rose, courage is the perfect word for this time in your journey.  I also struggle with a loss of respect for my h, I’m not sure how you get that back. 

The hardest part is the not knowing when or if their crises will end and if it does end, will they chose to walk away because it is easier.  It is tough with kids because we are tied to them.
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Married 20 years
Husband is 43
Me-39
4 kids 6-15 years old

BD-October 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), OW2(PA) no longer together.  I believe he is single. 
April 2019 He got an apartment and moved out.
Oct 2019-Apologized for a years worth of monster behavior.  Still wants to start divorce this Spring, is distant, but friendly.  Tries more with kids, but mostly just helps haul them around(superficial).
Spring 2019 H agreed to put off the divorce another school year to keep the kids and I from moving back to TX.
2020-He has continued to help out when asked and be polite.  I do think he questions his choices at times.  I do not believe he has OW.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#11: September 20, 2019, 11:49:04 AM
Welcome to your new thread Rose...love the idea of courage!
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#12: September 20, 2019, 12:06:18 PM
Latching on and sticking around to support you...no matter what!

You do have the COURAGE to keep tackling life one day at a time Rose!
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10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.19 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis
7.20 OW2 Confirmed  5 hours away  Monthy visits  Was hiding her!

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -29 Married with 2 children 
S - 27 Engaged in Prof School
3 Dogs (he left them all behind

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#13: September 20, 2019, 01:46:52 PM
H texted me today to see if S&D wanted to go to cinema. He had already agreed it with them and was checking with me. I said no to D as she wasn’t feeling well. He texted back and forward quite chatty. I wasn’t expecting that. Why does my mind think so positively all the time. I wonder why i’m Not angry at him. Am I in denial?

He came and collected S. I was gardening but as I knew he was coming I deliberately made sure I was showered and hair and make up on to give me courage. I didn’t want to see him and was certainly not doing it with gardening hair/makeup especially after the last twice and his recent news. He was late and S was annoyed so he waited at the door and just ran when H arrived. I was there with P but stayed behind the wall. Hair and make up not required but it was for me anyway.

I think they’ve just arrived back
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#14: September 22, 2019, 05:05:26 AM
Yes they had arrived back. I stayed upstairs and didn’t go down. He left after an hour or so and I heard and came down to help S lock the door and wave him away. I said I was on the phone.  I am looking forward to being able to be more honest with them once they know.

I had a few friends call me and I told another few friends which helped. Some friends advice is different to others, quite interesting and it opens yet another dilemma as I have heard of people losing friends when they give advice and the person goes against it. I need to say this to the few who are spending lots of time telling me what to do and what not to do as I know this is MLC and so unpredictable and I won’t decide now what I will do or not in the future. I’ll do what’s best for now.

Not only does this blow up your life but then you find yourself having to break this news that you don’t want to people, manage their feelings, take their advice, listen to them although none of them have been in this position and on top of that put in a caveat that who knows what will happen in the future.

I’d say this is taking its toll on me. Not terribly but I am overwhelmed. It comes down to financials as if I could live in the house without him I could manage no trouble. I am worried about how I will get through but I know I will. A few friends say ‘it’s just a house’ and I get that but it’s our home and with all the upheaval going on I don’t want more. I think that’s ok to feel like that. One friend, who is divorced but not MLC, said if he’s not mentioning selling the house then don’t you either. Better advice and more along how I feel. Doesn’t change things financially though but it was nice to here her say it’s better if you dont have to move.

I feel like I want to lie in bed for a year and someone else sort all this out for when I get up again.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#15: September 22, 2019, 06:33:45 AM
Hi Rose, just wanted to send a ((hug)). Your word for the thread is Courage and that's what you will need to get you out of bed every morning. I understand so wanting to lie there and hope it will magically sort out. Our time frames are similar and ow1 has disappeared presumably from my story as well.  We like to believe that at that point our H's will realize that their old life was really good. And then when they don't... another heartbreak. But you have the courage and two fine children and a cute puppy to keep you moving.  And us-we are all here for you. As you said, just do what's best for now.
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BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#16: September 22, 2019, 06:46:33 AM
Dear Rose, well we all know that feeling. And you are quite right that you will work your way through this new stage of uncertainty. I can't remember if you have taken legal advice? Sometimes gettingba bit of info, even if you don't act in it, can reduce the worry about things like the house.

I read somewhere that in uncertain times when we feel our choices are really important, we need to be a little selfish about the voices we allow into our heads. And that often we need just a few people who will listen to where we are and stand with us there without judgment. Not many people can do that easily so you may need temporarily to step away from some of the voices, even if their intent is good, so you can hear your own voice more clearly.

As I recall, the only new thing is about ow2 and the apartment move with the potential financial effects of that? Has your h mentioned divorce or formal separation or any other big changes? Accept that some of how you feel now is about both disappointment and the uncertainty of a change in the status quo...it is likely that you will be filling that space with your own fears which may or may not prove to be accurate. But it is a shift in the situation so allow yourself to be still enough to figure out how you need to respond. That still space is where Courage lives too isn't it?
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#17: September 22, 2019, 12:27:33 PM
Rose
I hate you are having to deal with more of his MLC foolish crap.
Remember we talked about being able to go to a remote tropical island and just live till it's over??? That would be lovely.
Your too strong of a woman to just lie in bed. I know the feeling though.
It's easy for friends to give advice. If they are real friends, they will understand your feelings and support what you want. If they cant??? Well they are not real friends. Try to not worry about that.
As for finances?? I think your H will keep doing as he has been. Any change in that would disrupt his fantasy life. So you have time to figure things out. IDK how it is where you live, but here if the H leaves and abandons his kids and wife and leaves, well he will have to take care of things financially. Not a of it, but a pretty goid chunk of it. So I don't see him doing anything unless he has too.

Sending you strength today girl. Keep your head up and keep moving forward.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#18: September 22, 2019, 03:05:07 PM
Thanks you all, I will reply.

Just wanted to say I spoke with H today. I had an hour without children and he wasn’t working so thought I could speak with him but assumed he wouldn’t answer. He did. We chatted for 40 mins. I said it was to discuss what to say to the children about OW2. He misunderstood and thought we were only telling them he’s not coming back rather than OW2 so we will both think further on that.

He is sounding so much more healthy than he was. We chatted a bit about OW1. I asked how it ended. He said it was not long after he left here, I asked what he thought about that now and he said ‘it was ridiculous’. The whole thing. He never thinks about her and didn’t say it but sounded like he regretted it. He certainly doesn’t respect her.

His take on OW2 is that we have been separated for 2 years and he has been seeing her for around 6months (I asked as he was a bit frosty 6months ago and told him this. I said he acted differently to me which is true). I asked why it took so long to tell me if it was a reasonable thing to do and he said he wasn’t sure if it would go anywhere. Sounds fair enough. He was quite nice to me. We chatted about the car as we need to sell it. I said I don’t really like it and he said ‘well start thinking about which car you would like’. He said not having the car is worse than not having a flat. He says he walks a lot and uses public transport. I told him this all makes no sense as we have the car sitting here and so he does have a car but chooses not to use it.

I also said that I remember him age 21 excited to be buying a flat and with his car said it would be great. I said it doesn’t seem right to work through your life to a big house (ish) and almost immediately say you want a flat again, and a car. I said I don’t understand it. He agreed.

He asked if he could take the children away for a few nights. I wasn’t sure and asked if OW2 would he there and he said no, for sure. I really felt rejection with this request as it’s basically the family minus me. Not sure what the children would think, another thing to think about.

This led me to ask what was wrong with us and he said we weren’t happy and didn’t communicate. I said no no I did communicate and would always say if I wasn’t happy. I said this was you, you must have been unhappy and didn’t mention it. I said what wrong with conflict anyway. It’s ok to say no. I said you didn’t say anything, got ow and left. I said ‘as a friend i’d Say you should get IC as this will raise its head again in your life if you don’t, it’s unhealthy’  he said I was right.

Basically he says he’s not coming back in case he’s a moany dad again and wants to be this fun dad. He says he’s worried he gets triggered (his word) back in the family. Is he over his MLC, decided not to come back and now found a new gf in his new life? That’s how it felt.

I told him I have a hospital appt this week (so to wait to tell children until afterwards). We chatted it through and he was interested and asked how I was getting there etc then at the end said good luck with it. He’s being quite nice to me. It’s so much better than being nasty like before but it does make it difficult to keep my head right.

I’m not re-reading this as no time. Hope it’s ok
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#19: September 23, 2019, 03:41:36 AM
Mal, I felt your hug, thank you. Luckily not getting out of bed isn’t really an option.  I don’t think I mean it from a depressive state more from a mind overload not knowing where to start, what to think or what’s for the best. Maybe it’s the same thing. I’m glad your OW1 has gone, hopefully your H thinks it was all ridiculous as my H said about his OW1 yesterday.

Treasur, I have legal info calling me back. It is free so not sure how in depth but better than nothing for now. I love what you said about the voices. Someone standing with me is right. I do have a couple of people like that. Yes new info is OW2 and H saying he has no plans to come back and would rather get a flat. No mention of divorce or selling house but financially I know we are at our limit. I think he would feel guilty if we had to move house and already feels guilt so I think if he could afford somewhere he would be happy enough. Yes T, I think my courage is sitting there, I am using little bits of it that last week I didn’t need. But it’s there so that’s good.

Help, I like to use your shortened name as it’s what you called yourself when you started and i’ll Always remember your support back then. (I’ll not mention the other part of your original name, ha ha) I know you are disappointed in my H and that this is dragging on and getting worse for me. I’m sad too, it’s really hard but it helps knowing you are not having to deal with this from your W so hope that continues. A remote tropical island, what I wouldn't give.  Honestly. That is exactly what I want to do. I’m feeling things I’ve never felt before and not in a good way. When illness, death and tragedy come into our lives it’s heartbreaking. But people understand. With MLC no-one understands and neither do I. It’s such a tax on your brain trying to figure things out that it feels impossible. The first friend I told about BD3 said ‘well you need to realise you’ll need to sell your house’. That was in response to ‘I can cope if I don’t have to move house’. No one in RL would be as harsh if this was a family illness/death or tragedy. She apologised later for being harsh. She’s a good friend and sometimes you need to be told something harsh. I get that. Makes you feel more alone though at that time.

My head is going round and round in circles. I’m going to grab a shower and do my hair and make up.

Thanks for being there
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#20: September 23, 2019, 03:48:41 AM
Always here, Rose  :)

If it helps, acknowledge that this is a different kind of BD and that your head will be spinning and cycling. Normal. Sucks but normal. Safety matters.....so anything you can do that makes you feel safer as a person...emotionally, mentally, physically...will probably help right now. Getting legal info is about that. Maybe spending time with the right people is about that. We are hopefully part of that. Small things can work just as well as big things.

But we're here x
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
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"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#21: September 23, 2019, 05:14:55 AM
Sorry to catch up and find out he has run off down the tunnel with a new OW. :(

Sending you a virtual hug.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#22: September 23, 2019, 05:18:47 AM
Yep!! We will be here Rose.
Please take some time for yourself. Just try and relax.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#23: September 23, 2019, 05:35:09 AM
I’m here, too, Rose. 
It is turbulent times for you but it shall pass.  I promise.

As for your H using the word ‘we’ when talking about the lack of communication, blah, blah, it is MLC Projecting 101 as you are very well aware.  What he thinks of himself must be true for LBS as well.  ::) Basically, there is no point in engaging in a debate/correction with him, the MLCer. 

It is also MLCer Blaming 101.  Blame the circumstances - it’s beside the point whether it is true or not - for his actions. 

If it’s any comfort, my H said the exact thing.  Apparently, we didn’t communicate well enough.  I told him, ‘please do not speak for me.  Leave ‘we’ out of it.’ 

(((((((HUGS)))))))), my dear Courageous Rose. 
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« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 05:37:20 AM by Acorn »
My first thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8164.150

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#24: September 23, 2019, 05:36:54 AM
Mort, I love hugs and appreciate that a lot!

Treasur, you are most definitely part of the right people. Can’t imagine not having here. Goodness.

Help, yes back to surviving the day here.


Hoping to apply for a job or two today to try and help money wise. I have my business going on but reluctant to make a bad impression on anyone in this frame of mind so not pushing that for now. I was thinking though if I had a job, I may be off sick right now.  Not able to function properly in a job I knew with people I knew. But i’m In the opposite position trying to impress someone enough to give me a job so I can, feeling like this, go to a job I don’t know with people I dont know. Feeling like this, did I say that already?!

Luckily I have my courage to hand!
Rose 🌹
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BD3 - Sept 2019
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OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#25: September 23, 2019, 05:50:44 AM
Acorn, always love your input. My mind is squishy so can you help explain further with
 
What he thinks of himself must be true for LBS as well.

It is also MLCer Blaming 101.  Blame the circumstances - it’s beside the point whether it is true or not - for his actions.

Sorry to be so demanding!

Rose 🌹

P.S yes that was a comfort. 🤗
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OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
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Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#26: September 23, 2019, 06:07:23 AM
As is with MLCer in the throes of his crisis, blaming ‘not much communication’ - HIS perception - is to be expected.  This is not just with MLCers but with any emotionally immature people, I would say.

Even if the situation (‘not much communication’) were true, he cannot blame that for his actions such as leaving his family, living like a bachelor, being egocentric, etc.  That is avoiding his personal responsibility.  In simpler terms, it’s all BS.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#27: September 23, 2019, 08:10:25 AM
AMEN!!! Acorn
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#28: September 23, 2019, 10:09:53 AM
Well put Acorn!  It is MLC-Script.  They seem to know somewhere deep down what the issue is but of course they cannot handle taking responsibility for that.

I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time Rose (within the awful thing that is dealing with an MLC-er).  Sending a virtual hug your way too.  It really is a rollercoaster isn't it?
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BD: 7th September 2019 (although lots of signs for previous 4 months)
EA with old school friend who appears to also be going through MLC for at least 4 months and I think OW since at least August
I have a wealth of experience of MLC (which I'd rather not have) - my previous long-term R (17 years, including 6 months of marriage) ended in D in July 2015 because I wanted to end it as it was an abusive R

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#29: September 23, 2019, 10:58:35 PM
Big BIG ((((((HUGS))))))
Here with you.
He's still trying to hold back that dam and thinks he's found a new way to hold it up. He hasn't has he?
Do you think he's cake eating a bit? Nice conversations with his wife, Dad of the year [he thinks] to his children. Does he need to feel the consequences of his actions a bit more?
I wouldn't put much worth in his words, Rose. They're only valuable at the moment he says them and, if you're like me, you'll be thinking about them long after he's forgotten what he said and changed his mind. Again.

More ((((((HUGS))))))
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H: 51
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
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Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
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OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#30: September 24, 2019, 08:11:52 AM
Acorn & Helping thank you for explaining further. My head is going around in circles.

Cherry, lovely to have you here. Yes this is a rollercoaster and I have never really liked them. I even feel sick.

Music, I am so confused about all of this. What I do know is I won’t keep this a secret now and apart from that i’m Not sure. I hate how we are reliant on him. Only financially I suppose. A lottery win would fix that and we would be happy enough as we have been for 2 years. This new OW seems nice (from fb) and is single so no real reason for it not to continue for a while at least. I am fighting the urge to update her on my side of the story. H would be annoyed at that and it’s better for me when he feels guilty, not annoyed with me.


Today i was driving for half an hour or so and the entire time the car radio had a talk show about the choir that H is in, but in a different area.  They twice played his favour song. Once the original and once with the choir singing it. It’s the song he always said he wanted at his funeral. I was going to contact the radio show and tell them about the great choir they were promoting all about my situation!

I hate how I have lost my life, I don’t have the one I had and I quite liked it. How can something as huge as MLC not be recognised in society. If society understood it I would feel better, I would feel people understood a bit, I would feel less alone and maybe if it was understood it could be managed and not devastate quite as much.  MLC is in itself a bit of a secret as if you mention it it’s thought of as a joke so we can’t mention it. That adds to the difficulties we all face.

This week I saw a video of people in a plane getting a photo taken and they said ‘if you’re here with someone you shouldn’t be then hide your face’. Everyone was laughing. But we know how devastating  and real that is, why does society laugh at it. My H was on a plane with OW2 recently and I didn’t know. I was in that position and everyone found it funny.

I don’t understand the world anymore. Every corner you turn there’s strange unbelievable things going on in current affairs and even in my little life, it was just 4 of us and now there is also strange unbelievable things going on. I don’t know what’s happened and have no energy to try to understand any of it.
Rose 🌹
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OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#31: September 24, 2019, 08:35:18 AM
Dear Rose, it’s going to take some time to recover after that BD.
Your head is spinning but it will slow down.  Be extra kind to yourself.  ((((((HUGS))))))

You life was beautiful as was and then one person had to go sabotage it.  The only person that can create a new beautiful life is you...  When you get your breath back.  There is no hurry. 

Let go of any remnant of expectations if you have still have them. 
Hope is good but there is a fine line between hope and wishful thinking.  It’s the latter the keeps the fire of expectations going.  I’m guessing that as a seasoned LBS, you may not even need my reminder because you have no expectations.  In that case, I apologize.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#32: September 24, 2019, 10:58:19 AM
Hey Rose
Please take some time for yourself. Quit thinking. Like you said, there are no answers for this mess.
Just breathe , take a break, maybe even a break from HS if you need too.
The more you think and look for answers, the worse it will be. As for the world, all you see is the bad stuff. Media loves That, but there is alot of good left.
Try and stay positive. 
I know it's easy for me to say these things. You have to keep going Rose. 
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#33: September 25, 2019, 01:35:34 AM
Rose
I remember that life/world makes no sense feeling.
What helped me was to pull back hard to the things that DID make sense, many of them the small tangible things...in my case, the allotment and beach walks, maybe for you it's the puppy and time with your kids idk.
But pulling back towards those real things and away from the crazy stuff going on around you can ground you  :)
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#34: September 25, 2019, 01:54:51 AM
Rose
I remember that life/world makes no sense feeling.
What helped me was to pull back hard to the things that DID make sense, many of them the small tangible things...in my case, the allotment and beach walks, maybe for you it's the puppy and time with your kids idk.
But pulling back towards those real things and away from the crazy stuff going on around you can ground you  :)

Thanks so much Treasur. You are right, am glad I captured feeling like that as I change so much it’s good to remember. Atm I am thinking this is his loss, he’s missing these children and puppy. That’s mad as who would miss this.  I generally always think like that anyway (outside of mlc) so don’t want to lose that too.

S got invited to a friends party at the weekend, it’s an old friend and S hasn’t been quite as friendly recently with him but realised he should have been over the past few weeks so is delighted to be included! I am glad too!

D also getting on good with her friends atm. She’s had friends trouble so appreciate it going well!

P has started peeing inside when she shouldn’t. Agh. Not sure what’s up!

Me - got hospital appt soon, going alone. Hopefully it’s all good.

Rose 🌹
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Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#35: September 25, 2019, 06:31:37 AM
Rose - Been gone a few days just living life and catching up!  Thought and prayed for you many times while I was away.

Catching up...I read some things in your journal that triggered me into thinking/remembering and I was to share back my thoughts with you and just offer you as much love and support as possible from across the world...

1.
Quote
Atm I am thinking this is his loss, he’s missing these children and puppy. That’s mad as who would miss this


This is mad (aka crazy)!  My H was a good man before all this.  His family was his pride and joy!  He looked forward to being a part of grandchildrens lives too.  Now he only does it when it is convenient for him and when OW is not around...otherwise...it is still all about her and her family.  The key here to me is that my H was a good man and I still believe his core person is a GOOD person but he is lost and doing BAD things in my opinion.  In his opinion...he is pursuing happiness.  Me...I want him to be happy eventually.  I know he is chasing the horse on the Merry Go Round and all I can do is let him go and do it.  Eventually he will get off that ride!  So my question to you....Who do you think your core H is.....is he worth waiting for?  That is a personal decision only you can make!  And you will make the decision that is best for you!  You don't have to decide now...just ponder your options.

2. 
Quote
I hate how I have lost my life, I don’t have the one I had and I quite liked it. How can something as huge as MLC not be recognised in society. If society understood it I would feel better, I would feel people understood a bit, I would feel less alone and maybe if it was understood it could be managed and not devastate quite as much.  MLC is in itself a bit of a secret as if you mention it it’s thought of as a joke so we can’t mention it. That adds to the difficulties we all face.

Yes...that old comfy broken life we didn't see at the time.  PAIN causes CHANGE.  A NEGATIVE change and also bring about a POSITIVE result in time.  It comes down to how we want to deal with the pain and how we want to apply things in our lives so that we can make the most of what is in front of us.  It's ok to feel the pain.  I just know you have the COURAGE to make a good things out of all this eventually!

As for why it is not recognized....does it matter.  What it comes down to is a marital breakdown and that seems to be more the taboo topic.  The fact that we are standing behind our spouses despite their bad behaviour.  If it was more socially acceptable not matter the reason for the marital issues....we would be able to talk opening...get the support we deserve and not have people expecting us to toss away the marriage and the spouses.  My marriage is not disposable like a dead battery.  It can be re-charged in time!  TIME!  Still hate the thought of that word yet in hindsite it is a blessing!

3. 
Quote
Hoping to apply for a job or two today to try and help money wise.

Wishing you the best.  Knowing what I know of you from this forum, I believe you would be an asset to any emplorer!  Also it will help to fill some gaps in your day to day time and make TIME go a bit faster.  Keep your mind occupied a bit more while you work your way through the latest of H's shennanigans!

4.  Paraphrasing as I can't copy a quote from several pages back....it is the one that said about loosing friends and pertaining to their advise.

For me...I chose to leave some friends behind.  Those friends that "gave" me unsolicited advise and got upset when I didn't do what they wanted.  I kindly told them that this is my life.  I get to make that decision when the time is right for me.  Those that continued to nag are no longer friends. It was my decision because they chose not to RESPECT me and my decisions.  They don't have to agree, but they do need to respect my decision..right or wrong.   Acquaintances...but no longer part of my inner circle because that is what is best for me.  One of them I work with daily.  She is now letting personal feelings control how she interacts with me professionally and sadly I will be setting up a boundary which I know she won't follow.

Here again....this is your choice and you will do what is best for you in the long run!

5.  Lasty...another paraphrase.  You spoke about why you dealing with H and OW2 without much upset...

IMO....you have accepted the situation and realize you have no control over H or his good or bad decisions.  You are not fully focused on it and you are not taking it personally.  All those lesson we are supposed to learn.  Guess what!   Rose has learn and not only learned...is applying them to the current ordeal.  Kudos to you Rose!  Look at how far you have grown over the years!   

Believe in the Rose with the courage and strength that we all get to see.  You are a beautiful wonder of nature and some TIME in the future, your H will see this too.  Don't wait for it....go do Rose and let him find you when the time is right! 
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10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.19 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis
7.20 OW2 Confirmed  5 hours away  Monthy visits  Was hiding her!

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -29 Married with 2 children 
S - 27 Engaged in Prof School
3 Dogs (he left them all behind

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#36: September 25, 2019, 10:53:32 PM
Hello Rose
Just checking in. Hoping the hospital appointment went ok.

Great post Sam. I got a lot from it too. Love that analogy of chasing the horse on the carousel. Does it help to think of your H, Rose as chasing the horse while getting out of the fire engine and into the sleigh? He's done this hugely hurtful/stupid thing of entering into a new relationship when you thought he was slowing the ride down and thinking of getting off but he's stayed on for another go. He's changed where he's "sitting" but he's still chasing the impossible. Still clinging on to something. Does it make a difference what that is?
He's missing all these other great things - irreplaceable experiences with his kids, with his family, with you but he's obsessed with this at the moment.
The difference for you is if you've decided you're not going to stand and hold his coat anymore [and where he can get glimpses of you as he goes round]. You're going to go and explore the rest of life's funfair and leave him to it. Can he catch up with you when he's done or will you have left the park altogether?

Don't know, Rose. Probably not described it very well. Just to say that I'm thinking of you.

(((Hugs)))
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H: 51
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#37: September 26, 2019, 01:34:57 AM
Acorn, thank you. No apologies needed. It’s interesting to see what you can hear coming through my posts. Keep the advice coming!

Help, yes I will try and stay positive. Every couple of hours I feel different to how I just felt, I guess that’s me processing it.


My thoughts on it now is that I need to get as far away from H and his new life as possible. There’s no way around telling the children everything now, so everything has changed and I need to get on with that.

Rose 🌹
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OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
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Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#38: September 27, 2019, 04:18:25 AM
Sam, thank you so much for such a great comment. And it helped Music too so thanks for taking the time so much.  Yes that is a great analogy. I liked it and it helped. I need to leave the park as H is doing something I dont understand. It’ll be so scary out there but thankfully I have my courage and can take it wherever I go.

(Hospital went better than expected, how totally brill. The doc asked about home life and so I told him, he was so lovely and it helped a bit. He said ‘this is common and you are not even the first person this morning to tell me s similar story’. Goodness. I wanted to give him this website to send people to. I maybe should have.)

Sam
Q1 - is my H worth waiting for? The core H yes, the children’s father most definitely. But I also have a worth and I have put that on hold long enough. I’m not saying I don’t think H will recover, I hope he does and at that point I have no idea what will happen. For now though it is better for me to live my life open and honest.

Q2 - I still don’t see this as a marital breakdown and find that one of the hardest things if people say ‘Rose & H’ had problems. Eh? No. H had problems and dragged Rose with him. That’s something I will be saying out loud to anyone who talks like that.

Q3 - yes I agree I would be an asset to an employer! Thanks Sam, now to find that employer!

Q4 - sorry about the friend who you work with. I am going to be open and honest with my friends and hope it works out.

Q5 - I almost sobbed yesterday but never seem to be in an acceptable place - the middle of a shopping mall just before meeting the children?! Managed to keep it together and realised how vulnerable I am so while I am home alone I am going to try to get back to that point so it’s no longer sitting on the surface.

Thanks again so very much 🤗
Rose 🌹
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BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
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OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
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Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#39: September 27, 2019, 07:03:53 AM
First, (((((HUGS))))))), Rose.
Of course you feel vulnerable right now.  Who wouldn’t?  Cry if you need to.  It is cathartic. 
I cried till I had no tears left to shed...

Time will dull that pain bit by bit.  I am sure of it.
Such good idea to look for a job.  Not just from the financial perspective but also to swing your focus on things other than your M and MLCer. 

Hugs again.  :) 

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#40: September 27, 2019, 10:54:24 AM
Sending huge hugs Rose. I guess this is why they say no R talks right? Not b/c our MLCer is not receptive, but b/c it starts our minds going in a way they shouldn't. We do start to believe their script I think.

 "Breakdown of communication." "It's too late now so I am starting over." "I want to be fun dad."

All of this is pure crap. Projection. MLCer script. I fall for it hook, line and sinker too. And I think my H will NEVER even think about returning b/c of that damage he knows he has done. And in his current state, that is the absolute truth. He is far to emotionally immature, weak and selfish right now to ever entertain that. And you know what? I don't want him in his present state either. 

I believe that if the crisis runs its course properly. And if these MLCers do their work, they get to a place where they will be able face the consequences of their actions. And remember the love we shared and the live we had was pretty darn great.

And in the meantime, they are left to their escape and avoid antics.  OW 1, 2 ,3 ....makes no difference. They are just another glass of whisky the MLCer is drinking trying to feel better. But well, too much of that and we feel even worse the next morning eh? And the good news is, they can't blame us anymore.

Hugs friend. You have a great attitude. Good luck on your job search!
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Me 49
H 47
S13
BD 5/16
H Moved out 6/16
OW--yes. Worked for H. EA turned into PA while I was in chemo. On again/off again like every high school romance

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#41: October 01, 2019, 01:34:48 PM
Since BD3 I have spoken with H once regarding this new info. He said we’d keep in touch and speak that week (last week) as he was not in agreement about telling the children about OW2. I texted him twice asking when he could talk, he ignored that part of the texts and replied to the rest. He had something planned this week which was cancelled so I said we could talk about our upcoming discussion with the children and he couldn’t but said he could the next day. I said ok and what time and where. He didn’t reply. He didn’t turn up to the chat and I texted him and he replied saying he couldn’t make it. I asked when did suit him then. No reply as yet.

It’s difficult as when the children are at school he is at work but we have had things going on long enough now to know that there’s no good time and still we need to sort things out.

I took my wedding ring off last week. I have not worn my other rings but had that on throughout.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#42: October 01, 2019, 02:16:48 PM
Rose
So may be the odd one out for the bad guy here, but I would tell him a date that your going to talk with the kids??? It's his choice to make it or not.
It's clear he's trying to run from facing that day.

As for the ring? I think I would do the same.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#43: October 01, 2019, 02:46:15 PM
Thanks Helping.

The one time I spoke with him I told him when we need to talk with them (next weekend). We need to say the same thing though and be in agreement when we talk with them. Atm we’re not in agreement and so I want to sort that first.

Yes he is running from potential conflict. Instead of acting like an adult.

Rose 🌹

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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#44: October 01, 2019, 03:05:13 PM
Rose...might I humbly suggest that he is no longer in charge of your truth and what YOU tell YOUR kids. You gave him a couple of chances to step up; he blew it. And it is very unlikely that he will suddenly start behaving like a decent man and father now. Helping is right...don't ask, inform him...he can show up or talk to you before that date...if he doesn't then you will have it do it the best way you can. Stick to the bare facts, don't explain the inexplicable on his behalf, respect your kids right to have the relevant information that affects their life and the coming changes. I don't think I have seen a single example of an appropriate 'we' version of this conversation working out as the LBS parent planned, not one. Take your control back, put your kids first. Sorry, it sucks but you will do a better job bc you have empathy, self control and are not.a liar. Jmo.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#45: October 01, 2019, 03:29:26 PM
You’re right T.

There is no ‘we’ now.  Or now ‘we’ for me is myself and 2 children. H knows when the talk is. He knows what I am going to say and disagrees, but if he doesn’t discuss it it’ll be too late. Yes that’s his issue though not mine. I have enough going on because of his choices, telling my parents this weekend and the children next weekend. Thanks H.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#46: October 01, 2019, 04:45:51 PM
Rose - My heart breaks for you!  However, I agree with Helping!  Give me a date and this is his opportunity to participate or not.

I would also urge you to talk to your counselor and get advised on the best way to speak with the kids.  They can give you pointers to help make the convo easier for you.  Give you some idea of questions they may ask so you are prepared.

No matter what decision you make...you will make the one that is best for you and them!  Not gonna be easy but at least there will be no lies.

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10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.19 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis
7.20 OW2 Confirmed  5 hours away  Monthy visits  Was hiding her!

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -29 Married with 2 children 
S - 27 Engaged in Prof School
3 Dogs (he left them all behind

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#47: October 02, 2019, 03:27:28 AM
Rose
If your H could be civil and sit down and tell the kids why he's left and why he (thinks atm) that he's not coming back, it would be good.  This is MLC. I don't see a MLCer doing that.
I just don't see him taking blame and not throwing you under the bus all over again.  Blaming you for everything.
It may be better to talk to the kids , just you. I know you will not beat your H up to the kids. That's just the sweet person you are. You tell the kids, let your H tell his side if he chooses.
Your kids will see that you are the sane one.

This is just me talking Rose. You know what's best in your situation and what you need. So you know I'm just speaking an opinion. I just don't want you to go through a bash Rose meeting and your H blame you for everything in front of the kids.
I agree Rose. Keep telling people. Family for sure. The more support you and the kids have?? The better it will be.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#48: October 02, 2019, 05:49:53 PM
Oh so sorry dear Rose. They really do want to avoid all potential consequences at all costs don't they? Mine did the same exact thing. Except, ours happened right around BD. He hemmmed and hawwwwed about when and what to tell our S that he was moving out. So when I finally nailed down a date, he told S he had to leave so "Mom and Dad wouldn't fight anymore." S cried and ran upstairs. H cried and ran out to his car and far far away.  I sat in the living room in complete disbelief.  S was 9. H was 44. They (MLCers) are such emotional children themselves, they really cannot be trusted with these important conversations. We want to believe they are still in there and that they care enough about their children (and us to some degree) to make this a priority. But sadly, they don't really care. They cannot at this point I believe.

When it came time to tell S about the OW, I did it alone. H wanted nothing to do with that conversation, and I didn't invite him. He wants to act like she doesn't exist in our world. And I am happy to oblige, except that the truth does come out, and I didn't want S to be blind-sided. Much as you are dealing with now. I don't know the right answer for you Rose. What I can do is tell you how I approach these things. And that is putting the sole focus on the kids and the kids alone. MLCer is lost lost lost.  Nothing we can do for them. Yes, be kind and cordial of course. But accommodate? Nah.

I know you will do what is best for you and your children.

Hugs friend.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#49: October 03, 2019, 02:28:56 AM
Acorn thanks for your support and hugs, it’s lovely reading your comments.

KIT I agree completely with your first post. It is so different to RL advice that I have been given. Also what you said with them not being trusted with such important conversations is right. My friend is pushing me to get him to do it but doesn’t understand how he minimises the entire thing and how that makes me feel, and I imagine the children would feel similar. We told the children together he was moving out 2 years ago and he doesn’t want to mention OW2 but says he will tell them he’s not coming home. I need to tell them about OW with or without him and I will. My IC agrees it is right. The doctor I saw last week agrees it’s right. My core values are integrity and open honesty so to be fair to myself I need to tell them as long as I am not doing it only to offload on them. He would rather continue to live his double life but I have tried that and was fully committed to live like that until things changed. I have put him before me and tried to protect him and a lot of people didn’t understand or agree with that but I wanted to try. I have no regrets about that and feel I have tried hard enough and when I look back I will know I could do no more.

Sam yes I did discuss it with my IC and got good advice so you are spot on. I appreciate your support on your thread too, and privately.

Help, you are right he is running from this and probably blaming me for telling the children rather than accepting the facts as an adult. Just thinking here that I want to cover myself with his parents and explain to them this same thing as if possible I don’t want them blaming me for telling the children either. Not sure, will see about that.

Still no word from H, he is taking S out at the weekend so is probably thinking of whispering to me about it while S pops upstairs or something equally ridiculous.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#50: October 03, 2019, 03:00:34 AM
How wise of you to see, Rose, that your truth and your kids truth is not dependent on your h's truth. You own yours; he may or may not choose to own or share his. Separate things. Sometimes, if we are honest, there can be a latent desire to push them into 'owning' something that can be a bit close to wanting to rub their nose in it perhaps...but once you see that this kind of conversation is not about them but about you and your kids, it is easier perhaps to see the right approach to take for you and your kids. Still difficult, but maybe cleaner somehow? I am glad that the support you have received here and in RL has helped you feel no regrets for what you tried to do before when the situation was different and what you believe is the best thing to do now.

Things evolve and will continue to evolve; all you can do is the best you can with what you have in your hand right now after all. I think you were also planning to tell your parents your picture of how it is? And do you have a specific time in mind to have the conversation with your kids after that? Others here have been there so please remember that the HS gang will be with you in spirit when you have those conversations. And remember too that it's ok to say I don't know when you don't know, and that you are not responsible for anyone else's feelings or reactions only your own.  :)

I suspect that you may feel much better than you imagine you might after these conversations have taken place. There is something rather freeing about telling the truth in a simple way imho. Xxx
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« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 03:02:00 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#51: October 03, 2019, 05:09:21 AM
Don't ever feel guilty Rose.
You have done all you could. Yes Yes Yes be honest from here on. No need and no benefit covering up anything anymore. JMO
I think early on when they are not seeing anything normal, it is ok to keep the peace.
Later when they are starting to see a little more clear?? They need to face it. Feel the damage They are doing.
I agree with Treasur that he needs to see what his choices are doing to his kids.
I also think inlaws will stand by you and their grandkids. If they dont??????
Well it will be a shame.
Think of you and your kids. Worry about other people later. Yall Are the most important thing.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#52: October 03, 2019, 10:11:28 AM
Sending ((((hugs)))) Rose
Agree with you and what others have said, you have to do what's right for you and your children. You have been more than respectful towards your H and shown great compassion through his MLC but he has to feel the consequences of his actions. Also, given he lives not far away and so presumably nor does OW2, who knows who might see them and it get back to the children somehow. It's not like he moved across the country. His parents would surely agree that it would not be great for them to find out from someone else.
Goodness you've been patient with him for so long.
Head up, lady. You've got this.
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H: 51
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#53: October 04, 2019, 05:00:07 AM
Hello Rose, Just thinking of you as the weekend approaches. One thought from my own experience, if H participates in your conversation with the children, it is good for him to leave at the end so you and the children can process together. My son is probably the age of your two combined, but we both needed to be together without him and process and cry together.  We may never heal from that moment, but we grew even closer. Sending hugs.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#54: October 04, 2019, 01:32:06 PM
Thank you all.

Just to say my plan is to tell my family this weekend then the children next weekend. I have told some family. I have been ok.

Today H turned up as was taking S out. (H texted me yesterday saying he was away with work and couldn’t meet with me. I didn’t reply) when he arrived at the house he was trying to be nice to me. S has been saying a couple of nice things about H before he arrived and when they both left I was alone and thinking there’s no way I can tell the children about this. I just can’t do it. Then I remembered they might find out via a different source so i’ll Have to tell them, then just again thought I just can’t.

Not an easy day but will just see how the rest of the day goes and not think too far ahead. It’s too difficult, actually it’s more than that. Then I thought about my lovely friend Rose2, if you remember from my ‘Hope’ thread. She had worse news to tell her children and less time to do it in. How on earth did she get the words out. That was worse. But in some ways it was out of her control and a ‘life’ reality (terminal illness). MLC is different as it’s a devastating life choice (it seems) by one member of the family when the rest completely don’t want its consequences. In Rose2’s case they could blame the illness (cancer) and in my case we can only blame H.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#55: October 04, 2019, 03:24:36 PM
Dear Rose, would it help to sort out what is in your control and what is not?  It saves time and mental energy when you stop worrying about something that is beyond your control. 

There is no way for you to know or control if/when/what people will tell your children.
So, you can eliminate the ‘people’ factor.

There is no way for you to know or control if/when/what your H will tell the children.  You suggested some dates and he made himself ‘unavailable’ several times.  He voluntarily gave up the opportunity to communicate with the kids about a very serious family matter.  ‘Courage’ is not in his vocabulary.

That leaves just one person you can control (that is, you) and this one question is all you need to ponder in my opinion.

Is telling the children beneficial for you and them, emotional health-wise, in the long run?  I think so... 

Just my 2 cents’ worth.
(((((HUGS))))))
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« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 03:35:13 PM by Acorn »
My first thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8164.150

My reconnecting thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10524.msg699615#msg699615

Live-in MLCer

Feb 2015: BD. 
Oct 2015: ILYBINILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
Dec 2017: Seriously reconnecting

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#56: October 07, 2019, 03:00:00 AM
Treasur, thank you. Yes I am in the middle of telling family atm and the children over the weekend ahead. Telling family has helped make me feel better so you are right.

Helping, when I found out about OW1 H was a different person to who he is now. He blamed me (you guys all know) and was angry with me. With OW2 he is trying to be nice to me. It’s different. H is more like a normal person. I have decided I will talk with in-laws to explain why I am telling the children. I can imagine them/H blaming me for it so I will explain it and take no blame.

Music, OW1 lived a 5 hour drive away and worked with H but was not part of our lives. OW2 lives in the next City but travels here to lead the choir so you are right she is HERE and therefore they could be seen and it could get back to the children. Therefore I have no choice.

Mal, thank you for your thoughts and advice. It fills me with horror that we may never heal from this. I am trying to drip feed some thoughts into the children so they are not blindsided. I had quite a conversation with S over the weekend. He had been out with H and when H was leaving S said he had invited H with us the next day to a family meal. H had refused to go. S was disappointed. I took the opportunity to chat with him and guide him in the direction this is heading. He asked a lot about when H was here and said it must have been difficult for me, I agreed. He asked if he had hurt me. I said he had, he asked if he had hit me and said he hadn’t. He nearly had but hadn’t and I am glad as that’s not H. S said he was glad too. S asked if he was depressed and I said he was when he was here, was crying everyday and went to doctor about it. S was surprised and said he wished he knew. He said we hid it well and that he and D had no idea (D was out while we chatted). He said he is older now and has leaned about these things at school so would be better able to help H (when he came home he meant). I told him that I tried all these things and it doesn’t help. I said there is nothing we can say or do or not say or do to help him. I said his mind needs to get through it on his own. I said I had hoped it would be a 2-3 year thing but looks like it might be 5-10 year thing. This validated what I have said to them previously and what I will say this weekend. The next day he was quite quiet. I asked him if he was ok and what he was thinking about. Turns out he was thinking about the film he had seen with H! He seems ok for now!

Acorn, thanks for being there when I was stressing. Emotional health wise, you are right. It’s everything, it’s essential so I have no choice.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#57: October 07, 2019, 08:01:39 PM
Catching up Rose. Sorry you're going through this. I have nothing to add to what others have said other than a reminder that sometimes the pain and stress leading up to difficult conversations is worse than the conversation itself. I know you'll handle it with grace as always. Your kids are lucky to have you.
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"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019
Divorce final - September 2019
Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11537.new#new

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#58: October 08, 2019, 12:34:02 AM
Hi Rose, just catching up with your thread. I'm sorry to hear about OW2 but as Kit says, she's just another glass of whisky, or just a new brand to try out. You say she seems nice, that is a good thing. Hopefully, she will not interject herself into your family dynamics and create more trouble. The fact that your H left for OW1 whom he now sees was stupid really tells you a lot about where his head is.

Regarding telling the kids about OW2, I'm all for honesty. I was even before BD, but especially since BD. As you said, they could find out from other sources, someone could tell them, you could pass them on the street, horrific I know! but it can happen. That would be shocking if the kids didn't know and then they find out that you did know.

I told my kids, my H didn't want anyone to know but I didn't think that he had that right. It was painful for us all. I think they were worried about me. At least this woman is not an alienator, she can't be blamed for anything. You could tell the kids that while someone is going through a MLC, it is expected that they would have a girlfriend. This is quite normal, that the MLCer can't be on their own and needs someone they can work through their issues with. It's just a suggestion and you don't have to take it. Just trying to throw out some ideas for you to find something that you are comfortable with.

As far as I'm concerned,  having the kids not know about the OW, is a form of enabling the MLCer. He gets away with it, doesn't have to face the consequences. The fact that he doesn't feel that anyone needs to know, just tells you he's ashamed about it, or knows it's wrong. Well, growing up means facing your choices.

It's not an easy conversation to face but done without putting the dad down, and with lots of hugs on your side, will help your kids grow up into good people. An authentic life is not about lying, hiding stuff from loved ones, doing the wrong thing as long as you can get away with it, having other loved ones know and say nothing.......Facing the hard stuff with loved ones around you is how you survive the bad stuff. Sending you strength. You already have the courage. xxx
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#59: October 08, 2019, 04:42:35 AM
Checking in on you Rose.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#60: October 09, 2019, 01:04:57 PM
PJ, thanks for checking in. I’m sure there will be relief once the conversation is passed.

Milly, your comments mean a lot. Thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate it so much. Yes OW1 seemed to mean very little to him now i think he now has more respect for me than her. Glad I didn’t spend too long worrying about her. (But it was still too long.) thank you for your ideas on what i could say about the gf/OW2. It’s good to get that kind of advice. Yes I need honesty too. Not to help or hinder H. For me to be myself which will also help the children. You are right about enabling him by keeping OW quiet. I did it before to try to protect him as thought he would surely be embarrassed about it after a year or so. Turns out, not yet! I loved all of your comments, thanks again 🥰

Helping, hey Buddy thanks for checking in. Not ideal here but doing as well as I can, so quite happy about that.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#61: October 12, 2019, 09:27:19 AM
Thinking of you, Rose.
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Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
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OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#62: October 12, 2019, 11:06:32 AM
Thanks Music.

Had a chat with H today about talking with the children which looks like it will be in a day or two. He was saying he is so much happier now that he wouldn’t come back. He wants an apartment so he can hang out there with the children. I said the children will ask what changes for them and he said nothing will for now. So no rush to sell the house for now which i’m glad of but then i’m Still reliant on him.

He makes it all sound so simple and straightforward. It’s all a rejection of me and I need to move forward with that. He said he was angry at the world/with life 2/3 years ago. I said I had lived with him for 20 years and almost overnight he changed into someone completely different, eg screaming in my face which he said he didn’t really remember but was sorry if he did that.

It’s seems insurmountable to recover from this for me. I know it will get better though.

I told him I regretted marrying him. I’ve thought it through for a while and it’s true. He said we had good times and he doesnt regret marrying me.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#63: October 12, 2019, 11:32:53 AM
Rose
I'm still calling BS on what your H is saying. JMO now.
He's not happy. He's still chasing fantasy.

I've felt the same as You, regrets for marrying my W. Now I'll be honest. Those feelings went away. Funny but at BD she was telling me all her regrets and she didnt want to live with regrets anymore. Ha. Now she doesn't regret any of it. Strange how their mind works. And yes, some if the most hurtful things my W said, she doesn't remember or so she said. Who knows. 
I'll say this and it's just my opinion. I'm just talking outloud. Your being so nice to your H, ( I'm not saying you shouldn't be) but it's different now. So of course your H seems more peaceful. I'll bet you if you bucked him one time about what he's doing and who he's chasing??? He would explode.  He would be ole sad, angry, upset, poor MLCer.

He's not done Rose.  Just keep being you. Let him see for himself. He's will trip over that DAMN rainbow he's riding on his pink unicorn soon enough.

Thinking of you and I hope you manage to gave the convo with your kiddos.  H or not!!!

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#64: October 12, 2019, 12:23:05 PM
That must have been hard, Rose. Hearing that. Horrible.
Have to say, I'm with Helping. Your H sounds like a walking, talking poster boy for MLC.
Can I ask Rose, why you're having any kind of R talk with him? He's surely only going to come out with more MLC nonsense and hurt you more. Don't give him any credit. He reads like a replaying MLCer, Rose but are you treating him like that? Are you treating him more like one who's further along?  I hope you know I ask with your best interest at heart.
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H: 51
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
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Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
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OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#65: October 12, 2019, 01:03:38 PM
Help, yes when you say it like that he is still chasing fantasy. Riding a pink unicorn over a rainbow sounds about right! He’s not done, thanks yes.


Music, yes I do know you mean it with love and I appreciate your opinion so much. You have connected exactly with me. He isn’t like he was 2-3 years ago as he was so angry etc, he is now friendly with me. Much more normal making me feel like it’s reasonable to talk through things with him. But yes his actions are still of replay so not sure why I am missing that. I am telling the children about OW2 (and OW1) and want to make sure we both (if he turns up) say the same thing in front of them. I don’t want to move house and wanted to make sure he wouldn’t say that in front of them so I am glad we had the chat as I am better prepared for the children. No other reason. I am treating him different as he was so obviously having a breakdown before, I couldn’t take him seriously. Now he does seem happy, he’s calm, he’s friendly, he seems reasonable. Except his 30 year old OW and his justification that leaving the family is not a big deal.

You guys really are all i need to help me feel better! Thanks so much for commenting. I needed it.

Rose 🌹
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BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#66: October 13, 2019, 06:40:39 AM
Sounds to me like he is in the ''I am gonna live on my own as a single guy, living it up, partying, boning hot chicks'' freedom fantasy at the moment.  ::)

He is running off the high of what he thinks it is going to be like. He hasn't realised all the reality that is waiting to slap him hard in the face.
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You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#67: October 13, 2019, 12:52:18 PM
Bride, I loved that. Thanks for commenting it made me feel better!

I was reading Shocksis thread and she said her MLC ‘healed the broken child inside’.  I guess I knew that was the idea around MLC but thought her putting it so simply was easy to understand. It got me to thinking about H and his childhood issues.

Basically they are:
- him not being made to feel important
- him not getting enough recognition as a child as I have joked with him for as long as i’ve Known him not realising it’s not actually funny. In fact the opposite.

If he is trying to heal this then he has chosen a good OW2.  He feels important at choir as is one of only a few men and his voice is therefore valuable because of that. Also he is being chosen for solo parts, maybe because OW2 is the choir leader. And with her being the leader he is getting inside info about things making him feel more important than others who don’t get to know these things. From this angle I can see her serving her purpose as i have read about before.

Doesn’t change anything for me but I do think with this whole thing being so senseless if there are bits you can kind of make sense of it dampens down the hurt just enough. I do find the hurt immeasurable and I struggle to understand how I will go forward in life without the happiness I had before. Hopefully I will, it will be different for sure but hopefully still there.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#68: October 13, 2019, 04:10:54 PM
It will be different Rose. You will be happiER  than you were.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#69: October 13, 2019, 04:44:02 PM
It will be different Rose. You will be happiER  than you were.

❤️
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#70: October 15, 2019, 12:45:22 AM
Following, Rose. It seems you've reached a new place, a gentle, accepting, agape place. You're definitely making progress. Your H seems to be progressing himself as well, although not towards you at this stage.

What you say about whether you'll reach that happy place you had again really resonates with me. You expressed my own thoughts very well. I get comfort in reading that although you're feeling like this inside, you are growing and reaching a peaceful place. Thanks for sharing.
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BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#71: October 15, 2019, 01:18:31 AM
Rose, there is a different kind of happiness if only bc we are liberated from some of the feeling of limbo or MLC watching. And your nature is to look to the good so you'll find it.

It sounds as if your h thinks that (other than ow2/apartment etc) not much is going to change for him. That he will still be included in your collective family life and day to day doings and puppy walks and listening to his choir blither as he has been. Which is foolish of him but not uncommon. I suspect some of the changes you may choose to make to live your life more as an xw rather than a w may come as a bit of a shock to him. And tbh making these changes and new boundaries is part of the acceptance and adapting process for you and the kids too. His loss...I just think he thinks (as they do) that he can have everything he wants without loss, that the world spins around him and the rest of you will fall into line to make him happy. Hmmm ...not sure that is how sowing and reaping or indeed teenagers work lol.

Imho if you're standing, you need to detach more now to fit events and support your kids. And if you're not standing you need to detach more....so either way, same path.
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« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 01:19:33 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#72: October 22, 2019, 02:18:48 AM
Hi Rose
It’s taken me a short while to fully catch up on your thread. I must say I was shocked to hear about Ow2 but I know you suspected for a while. Somehow our guts have our backs.

I don’t really have any practical advise to offer. Just thought I would attach and send some hugs.

My children do not fully understand the concept of boyfriends girlfriends etc etc. So mine do not know about Ow. D8 has every so often seen a photo of Ow on Clingtons phone and she would singsong mock him “daddy’s got a girlfriend” but she has no concept of boyfriend girlfriends etc. But your children are older. They will understand. I think they will shock you with how much they will understand.

Sending big hugs
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OW discovered - December 2017
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Ow met children - December 2019

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#73: October 22, 2019, 04:44:43 PM
Rose, Just checking in - thinking of you and I hope all the discussions went as well as they could have gone.  Sending Hugs.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#74: October 23, 2019, 06:07:42 AM
Milly, I can feel warmth and kindness coming from you and I appreciate that so much, thank you for commenting on my thread and I look forward to more! Glad you are here xx

Treasur, the fact that you said my nature was to look at the good has really meant a lot to me. I am so glad that comes across and you are so good at reading people. Yes detach more, actually that’s not as hard as it sounds given the new info. I wouldn’t say I was standing but my view is that I can’t believe where I am from 3 years ago so won’t put a label on where i’ll Be in 3 years. I’ll see what happens but I am moving forward alone and while that is sad, scary and senseless I have no other route available in my mind, so onward I go.

Sachat, thank you for catching up on my story. I think I might have been reading alongside you as have been back over my threads from 2019. Yes my gut did have my back - I love the way you wrote that! The hugs were appreciated and my thread is better having you here xx

Mal, goodness this is such a lovely place where people going through Hell just stop for a while and check in on someone taking the same path. Thanks so much for thinking of me. The discussions have passed and yes they did go as well as they could have. I will write it out in a bit more detail but it was over a week ago, we are all ok, I am DELIGHTED it is behind me and having no more lies is a huge advantage in my life. I have spent a lot of time with the children talking it through and also other fun things not to do with MLC and balanced it as well as I could. I have also told friends and family and enjoyed their support.

I’m exhausted but being kind to myself. I will post separately about how it went when I get a chance.

Rose 🌹


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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#75: October 24, 2019, 06:03:07 AM
Rose, I am so glad the discussions went as well as they could have. I was worried because it is tough at any age and yours are young. Glad it is behind you and you are feeling loved and supported!
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#76: October 30, 2019, 03:53:32 AM
Thanks Mal, I am glad it’s behind me too. I feel healthier than I was, of course my kids now don’t.

I chased H around for a week before we spoke with the children. He kept avoiding my calls, not calling back, being unavailable and breaking promises. I turned up at his parents one day to tell them to get him to talk about it and he was working from there that day so I told him I was telling the children on the Friday and we needed to talk first. He said he would, he then arranged to call at 1pm on the Thursday. At 12:30 on the Thursday S called to say he was coming home from school at 1pm. Agh. I thought by the time he gets here I will have had around ten mins with H (he had specifically said he would call me not me to call him). Of course H didn’t call. At all. I was glad I didn’t text him saying I couldn’t do it as S was there.

S wasn’t feeling well and was still off on the Friday. I decided against telling them that day as 1- S was feeling ill, 2- D had just got her school vacation so was in a happy mood 3- I hadn’t yet spoken with H 4-I wanted to put it off.

The relief I felt was huge and I decided as D was busy Sat and Sun and Mon AM that it had to be Mon PM. I couldn’t put it off after that as they wouldn’t have enough time before heading back to school to live with the news. D kept planning things though including a sleepover with her friend on Monday evening. I had to say no and remembered why it was important to get this all out.

On the Sat I dropped D off where she was going and was taking P for a walk near there. H’s parents wasn’t far away and I thought in an ideal world he would come and talk and walk. I called him but didn’t think he’d answer or want to meet. But he did answer and did say he’d meet. He was there within 10 mins. We walked around for almost an hour and agreed what to say to the children and my big issue was the house. He said again he wants a flat and as there’s no money if I can work and get money he can get a flat. He says he knows this would take time though and was ok with that. He says nothing will change just now. He said or we could sell the house. I don’t think he wants to do that but is equally not bothered if we do. I don’t like being tied to him but I also don’t want to move house if possible. So if I can get my head clear enough to focus on jobs then that’s my best route.

I told him I was telling them on Monday and he said it was best if we both did it. I didn’t hear from him on Sunday and on Monday just before 3pm I called him and he didn’t answer, I left a message saying I needed to tell them in around an hour. After 4pm I called again and he didn’t answer so I left a message saying I was needing to get this happening. He texted around 4:30 saying he was at chiropractor and would call once he was out (couldn’t he have texted before he went in?). I left it until around 5:15pm and called him again. I said I was just going to tell the children as ‘we’ had missed each other the week before (he had avoided my calls but I put it nicely) and I didn’t have that luxury this week, I needed to tell them so I was just going to do it without him. He called back saying he was five mins away and would be there, to wait on him. So I did. I sat beside D with a drink meaning when H came in we just needed to get S downstairs and we were all in position.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#77: October 30, 2019, 05:12:28 AM
OK.... And?

Man, that is worse than a Seasons' End Cliffhanger.

How did the kids take the news? What DID they get told in the end (Mid-Lifers have an amazing capacity to bend the truth... )
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« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 05:20:54 AM by UrsaMajor »
Me - 57, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 13, D - 9
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BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#78: October 30, 2019, 05:19:42 AM
A ha ha UM!

Been putting it off as not got enough time to go through it all so did the lead up and next will do the chat. Got IC now so not sure if i’ll Update after that or later but will be back..!

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#79: October 30, 2019, 06:41:15 AM
UM, I'm with you. I was reading and then THE END. Ha.
Hope your session goes well Rose. Fill us in when you can.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#80: November 01, 2019, 04:17:56 AM
Help

Ha ha yes I know. Sorry!

I think what has happened is that I have now told my friends and family and so they are popping in or visiting and I have found myself retelling the entire story more than once a day this past couple of weeks so not had the emotional space to update here.

Today I am the same so far!
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#81: November 01, 2019, 06:49:24 AM
Share when you're ready Rose. Hope it feels better having it all out in the open. But it's exhausting isn't it?
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"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019
Divorce final - September 2019
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My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11537.new#new

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#82: November 01, 2019, 08:14:39 AM
Exactly PJ, it’s exhausting

Also my Mom, FIL, MIL, father etc are saying things I dont agree with so having to fight those mini battles too.

Yes I feel better though, kinda!
Rose 🌹
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 09:15:36 AM by Rosetintedglasses »
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#83: November 01, 2019, 08:43:28 AM
Rose
Take some ME time. Try and relax some. Maybe go put with some of friends and say up front!!!! NO  talks about H or MLC. Just go have fun.
I bet it is hard listening to everyone's opinion so to speak. You can fill us in anytime Rose, I don't see us going anywhere anytime soon, ha.
It's the weekend. Take a break from all of this mess. Yep, take a break from here(HS) too. JMO though.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#84: November 03, 2019, 09:05:33 AM
Thinking of you Rose. Having family and friends wade in can be exhausting on top of everything.
Hugs
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Me: 51
H: 51
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#85: November 06, 2019, 01:28:20 PM
Hi Rose....I found that I got to the point with some people where I had to say no talking about H or relationship with H.  I love you but I had enough of opinions.  It is my decision to make.


They quickly got the point and respected me....but it took me saying it!


I agree...do some me time! 
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10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.19 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis
7.20 OW2 Confirmed  5 hours away  Monthy visits  Was hiding her!

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -29 Married with 2 children 
S - 27 Engaged in Prof School
3 Dogs (he left them all behind

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#86: November 20, 2019, 03:45:34 AM
I sat beside D with a drink meaning when H came in we just needed to get S downstairs and we were all in position.

Rose 🌹


When H came in he chatted for a while about what the children had been up to and S came and sat and chatted.  After around 20-30 mins I got H to start the chat before the children decided to go and do something more interesting. S sat in a chair beside D and I meaning H was sitting as if he was in an interview with 3 people facing him on the panel.

H sat and said 'So Mom & I have been separated now for 2 years'.  Already this annoyed me as we never spoke like this when he left 2 years ago.  We weren't separating, he was unhappy and moaning and so was going to stay with his parents as he was stressed.  Conveniently now his narrative had slightly changed making his actions more reasonable, in his eyes. I led him through what he needed to say.  He said he wasn't going to come back and wanted to get an apartment of his own.  The children responded like a teacher was telling them what was going to happen and did they have any questions.  They were polite, kind and (far too) understanding.  I said that I was not in agreement with any of this and that H was speaking for himself and that all of these decisions were not my choice at all.  This helped the children to express the other side of their thoughts.  I then said 'Yes H but there are also more layers to this...' and he said yes as realised what I meant, OW1.  He said that while living here he had 'what I suppose you could call an affair'.  I said well that's exactly what it was, an affair.   I don't think he was happy with me pushing that out there but it needed said and he knew if he didn't then I would.  D squeezed my hand.

After a while S said well anyone can make a mistake so I led H further and said 'and now, in choir...' and H said he had a friend at choir who he had started going out with as he had no-one to go out for drinks with etc, he said he just wanted someone and had met someone there.  I spoke briefly about this and made sure to say that it was the choir leader.  D told me later she was almost sick at that point as H had introduced her to OW2 when she went to see them perform last year, 2018.  I didn't know that.  I said I had just found out about her as they had been overseas together and I found out when I got the credit card invoice.  H said 'yes I told you about that' and I said yes that's technically true but its not open and honest, its like you couldn't deny it so you told me about it.  (Not the same and if this is how he is justifying things to himself and others then yuck.  I spoke afterwards with my IC about this and she completely understood and agreed with me.) We didn't argue in front of the children but I didn't let him say things like this without pushing back on it. At one point I decided to take Milly's advice and I said that 'lots of men and women can feel unsettled at mid life, it is something that can happen'.  I also said that H had always been a good Dad to them even during his 2 years away and that we were glad about that.  I think he appreciated this.  H spoke about vacations, Christmas and homes.  None of it was talked about before with me so was all in the moment depending on what the children asked.  He was fairly convincing to us all that this was a good idea.

S & D said that they had learned at school about these things and there is a thing called 'couples counselling' which they want us to go to.  H darted a look at me.  Not sure he could believe they still preferred me to this new wonderful choir leader!  He said that we had both been to counselling.  I corrected him that I was going to counselling and he went a few times in 2017 to talk about his work issues.  He twisted these things to make it sound right in his head. 

After a while we had gone round and round and said enough. H asked if we were hungry as we could get a takeaway.  So we did, we got the childrens favourite takeaway to eat.  S and H went to pick it up.  We watched TV and chatted about H's birthday which was a few days after.  They decided and booked what they would do that day (not me but I didnt want to join in anyway and also its easier if I stay with P). I thought of Mal and your advice here about getting him to leave quite soon after so we could be on our own but it felt ok so I went with it.

He left after 11pm and said he'd see them in a few days.  The 3 of us hugged in a joint hug when we closed the door on him.  I told them I was sorry.  S said I had nothing to be sorry for and actually when he thought about it he was quite angry at H. I said oh thats a shame you werent angry half an hour ago (when H was getting off scot free!), he knew I was making light of it.  D then started crying.  It was like as soon as H was gone, the reality hit them both.  S angry, D sad. We watched something fun on TV for half an hour and then went to bed.  D was sobbing by then.  She said she didnt want anything to change.  She said she didnt feel like she had a mom and dad anymore, just 2 parents. S and I, and P, sat on her bed with her.  I held her and she decided to sleep in my bed.  S said 'he is supposed to be a role model to me'.

The next day I had to pop out and S texted to say FIL was coming to take him out.  I couldnt get S on the phone so called FIL to wait until I got home as I hadnt spoken with S that day and wanted to make sure he was ok first (before being alone with FIL saying goodness knows what).  FIL had no idea what I was talking about.  I said that H had told the children last night that he has met someone else and will be getting his own apartment rather than coming home here and he said he didnt know that.  I couldnt believe H didnt tell him this.  So I had then told him.  Just like when he moved out to their house 2 years ago and he didnt tell them and they called here while on vacation looking for him and I had to say 'well he's moved out to your house so no he's not here!'. 

H called later that night to speak with them both.  I heard him ask how D was feeling after our chat and she said she was sad.  It was good he phoned though.  S didnt want to speak with him so didnt answer. 

The day after S said he was still angry with H and that he would talk with him on the trip the next day for his birthday.  I said it was maybe better to leave it until another day but he was adamant.  Anyway on the birthday S didnt get a chance to say anything to H and they had a nice day.  Around 5 days later H called them again as they were going back to school the next day and to wish them luck.  S didnt answer again as didnt want to talk with him.  He said he would call back the next night but didnt and he hasnt spoken with them since.  So thats 5 weeks since we last saw him and 4 weeks since he last spoke with them (D only). 

Around 4 weeks ago while back at school S's anger was getting on top of him.  He also has trouble with a friends group and a lot on with his studies.  He walked out of school and came home and was 'stressed'.  He told me hes not coping and wants to drop out of some of his studies.  I didnt agree at all. Later that night he was on xbox and I sat with him to see if he was 'less stressed'.  He seemed much lighter.  He said look at this, and he had been texting H.  I was oblivious, sitting in the next room.  He got out everything he wanted to say.  Goodness it was a lot.  Things I wish H's friends or family had said to him but that no-one except me, had said during his crisis.  Little examples are 'that he is acting incredibly irrationally', that its hard to hear but H's parents are taking it really badly, hes not in the right frame of mind to make decisions as big as this, that he and D are having issues at school as a result, he's not apologised enough for what he has done and he thinks its because he's not fully back to himself and that he needs to focus on 'getting 100% back to the loving, kind, loyal Dad Husband and Son that has been missing for some years now.  Do whatever you can to sort yourself out as soon as possbile.  For me.'  H had replied quite well, mostly, saying things like 'I understand' and 'we can talk again about it if you like'. S said a few weeks after that he thinks H had fallen out with him as he hadnt heard from him since and I said i didnt think so.  S didnt care as needed to say what he said.  I said the most likely thing that H did was just to ignore your advice, rather than be angry with you about it.

I knew this would be epic, sorry!
Rose 🌹

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« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 03:47:24 AM by Rosetintedglasses »
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#87: November 20, 2019, 04:28:17 AM
Oh God, ive just caught up rose, im so sorry About BD3! The Choir leader, I think we discussed the danger in that one quite a while back if I can remember.

Rose, as hard as it is and please dont take this the wrong way as I mean well.
 IF we take the LBS glasses off for a while and stop thinking of everything as a MIL then try not to be to hard on OW2. If you look at the Facts as an outsider, as horrible as they are, then she isnt really doing anything wrong and is she really a OW?

Its a difficult subject but you have been seperated for a couple of years now and even though you are still officially married, she isnt doing anything wrong. Your seperated and your H is theroretically single, she has not stolen your H as the marriage was already dead.
Its all just a mess and I feel for you and your Kids.

You did all that you can and even more than that. It just goes to Show that once they flip the switch "most" of us here are doomed no matter how we handle the situatuon.
Concentrate on you and your Kids from now on, your H is no longer a friend, he has left the Building.
Massive Hugs Rose...
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Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. Is tolerated by LaFamiglia
2 Sons - 20 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#88: November 20, 2019, 05:49:55 AM
Rose - My heart hurts for you and the children.  This MLC stuff just is crazy and stinks!  I hate it so much.

Even given everything that has happened...I know there are positives to be found!  I pray you and your kids find many good things because of this.

I have said it before, but you are such a strong person!  Your kids are so lucky to have you there for them!

Keep your focus where it needs to be!  On you and the kiddos! 

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10.29.17 BD-Moved out to OW/A began in  6.17
3.5.18 OW moved away/H moved in with F
3.19.18  H moved home into spare room 
7.14.18  Moved to be with OW (another state)
9.4.18  Moved back-Living with Parents 
11.1.18  OW moved back.  H living w/her in D's basement room. 
11.18 - H started visiting on holidays
11.26.19 Call from H.  BIL died suddenly.
1.19 - H announced to my inner circle that he moved to sisters  inc all belongings
2.19  H volunteers to house and dog sit whenever.
Spring 19  H visiting house and doing chores on a regular basis
7.20 OW2 Confirmed  5 hours away  Monthy visits  Was hiding her!

4.83 Started Dating
8.10.85  Married

D -29 Married with 2 children 
S - 27 Engaged in Prof School
3 Dogs (he left them all behind

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#89: November 20, 2019, 08:02:18 AM
Hi Rose,

Sending hugs.  Having read the account, no wonder why it took you so long to write.  Heartbreaking, but you handled the event with so much grace and love. 

I am so glad for you that you kept it honest--
Quote
I said that I was not in agreement with any of this and that H was speaking for himself and that all of these decisions were not my choice at all.  This helped the children to express the other side of their thoughts.

My heart breaks for all of you.  I am glad that your son was able to express to h what he was feeling.  So much sadness.  No words really.

hugs
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#90: November 20, 2019, 09:53:50 AM
Whyus Hi and thanks for catching up and commenting especially with tricky stuff.

I was actually calling OW2 as a gf at one point as thought the same thing as you. She has no idea really of the reality here and she seems nice from what I know. Hopefully I didn’t write that she had stolen my H as I don’t feel that way. I think he thinks like you said he has done nothing wrong however the way it has ‘felt’ to me was that for him to get a gf/OW2 at the very least he would have let me know about it. He didn’t as he knew I wasn’t living like that. We still sent birthday cards to family and friends as a family we still did things together, he was still included when he wanted to be. He just didn’t have the decency or strength to keep me up to date. They don’t do they. They like a double life.

Ha ha, yes he has left the building.

Helping, Music, Sam and Mal thank you for your support. I needed it.

Rose 🌹
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« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 09:55:23 AM by Rosetintedglasses »
Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#91: November 21, 2019, 02:51:50 AM
Rose, it really saddened me to read your post when your H told the kids he was moving out and was with the choir girl. Your kids' reaction was just as could be expected: the girl cries, the boy gets angry, yet they are both dealing with the same internal emotions. So sad.

As far as your H goes, he's at that point in the crisis where they go deeper. It's as if he was a little in two minds for a while there, then who knows why the MLCer seems to say 'Ok, it's done now, I've wrecked everything so I need to make the other life work.' And they appear to commit to this fantasy life along with moving in with an OW, and letting everyone know. My take when I see this happening, is that they are in the middle stage of Replay. Convinced more than ever that the new life needs to work, and they do everything they can to have that happen.

My guess is given time, that relationship is going to get less intense. Your H is going to keep getting older and not happier and that will make him very grumpy. She, being young, will be very bossy, energetic, and will have many options should she get fed up with him. It's one thing to go sing in the choir for a couple of hours, have a laugh with everyone whilst blocking out all thoughts of real life, go for a drink afterwards and sleep like a baby. Add in the rest of the day, and suddenly choir becomes a chore, he's tired, has the flu, the house needs tidying, she's a slob or he is, he wants to watch tv at night, she wants to go out, he wants a break from the day's difficulties but there's no escaping real life any more because she's at choir too! ...I could go on and on.

Rose, this stage is very, very difficult for the LBS and the kids. My suggestion would be to just tell yourself he's in Replay and while he's in Replay nothing good can happen. It's as if he were in prison for a while. Until the sentence is over, he can't do anything about coming home.

When my H entered this horrible stage, the kids and I (D and S) concentrated on our own lives, kept busy, had dinners with friends, did as many fun and sports activities as we could so there was little time to think about H. I saw an IC and she helped me relate to my S and D, too. Just like with you and your kids, my kids and I have grown extremely close due to their father's MLC. Your S speaking up to his father, is a really good sign as far as I'm concerned. Shows you've transmitted to him that he has a voice of his own.
Big hugs xxx

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BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#92: November 22, 2019, 05:54:29 AM
Milly

Thanks a lot. Your advice is so appreciated, thanks for taking the time.

I hadn’t thought of it like his choir is an escape from real life (maybe it’s his fantasy life) and now he is living that life only, it’s now his reality meaning there’s no escape. He swapped his family for a choir. No wonder it’s hard to comprehend.

Last night late on H texted both children and is taking S to cinema tonight. So that means he’ll be here and I am probably better when I don’t see him but it’s not as easy as that as the children need to see him and I don’t want them in a situation where we can’t both be in the same room. I’ll just try to keep out of the way and hope it is fleeting and I can maintain my equilibrium.

Been reading Watchers thread recently and he is ‘stealing’ 10 mins with his younger son a few days a week. Such a great Dad in such an unfair situation, wouldn’t it be good if we could set up a support system where children missing parents due to MLC could have LBS substitutes. My children would benefit from Watcher popping by to visit!

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#93: November 23, 2019, 10:10:12 AM
Update on H coming to take S out.  I stayed out of sight when he came by but he was actually late so S just ran out to meet him when he arrived so that was easy on me.

They were quite late back, after 11pm, and I was exhausted but was ‘around’ when they came in and then I headed out of sight after five mins or so. He did speak with me quickly about S and I just agreed politely. D said afterwards he’s going to text me about an event coming up. We had already agreed how this event would work but that was before I knew about OW2 (as I will continue to call her as it feels right) and not that it changes anything but H has obviously forgotten what we agreed to do.

I feel a further level of detachment now I think. I am starting to dislike him maybe.  He was talking with D and I overheard and I just would rather he wasn’t here, the conversation was boring. Dull. Uninteresting. Was he always like that and I didn’t notice? Have I changed? Has he changed? Have we both changed? Probably. I’ll never go back to how I was, not sure if he will go back close to how he was but if he does it will be a long time away and I’ll have changed further.

The level of honesty it has given me telling my friends and family has allowed me to be more me, and that feels better.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#94: November 23, 2019, 01:30:53 PM

I feel a further level of detachment now I think. I am starting to dislike him maybe.  He was talking with D and I overheard and I just would rather he wasn’t here, the conversation was boring. Dull. Uninteresting. Was he always like that and I didn’t notice? Have I changed? Has he changed? Have we both changed? Probably. I’ll never go back to how I was, not sure if he will go back close to how he was but if he does it will be a long time away and I’ll have changed further.


I think I understand what you are talking about here. 
When I went further and further away from the eye of the storm (MLCer and his crisis) his words and actions lost their significance.  They became o so ho hum.  No monkey braining. There is nothing to see, move on.    It’s as if the scales fell from my eyes and I could see how pathetic, self-centred, immature and unreliable MLCer can be.   I suspect you have come to that stage, perhaps.  If you have, congratulations!   Life gets a lot easier.  Trust me.
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My first thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8164.150

My reconnecting thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10524.msg699615#msg699615

Live-in MLCer

Feb 2015: BD. 
Oct 2015: ILYBINILWY.
Apr 2016: Affair discovered
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#95: December 22, 2019, 03:55:00 AM
Acorn I thank you for commenting and appreciate your knowledge so much.

I had a PM from a kind heart and it prompted me to update my thread.

Since we told the children about H in mid October we have seen him twice. Once after around 7 weeks where he took S out and I avoided him then I believe he was ill for a while and we saw him around a week ago as D was in a show. There was another time at a school event but I managed to avoid him but did see MIL/FIL. Actually that night MIL said to my mother that this year for Christmas we could do our own thing and my mother said ‘no it’s ok we can do our usual’. MIL was trying to be a victim and my mother didn’t let her, so that was good. Eventually she said H could organise it with me but I still have heard nothing from him about it. I want it to come from them that they don’t want to be with their grandchildren/children. We will see today/tomorrow what happens.

So I avoided him first time I saw him but then when D was in a show last week I did see him. My family were here as we had seen the show earlier in the day and H & MIL/FIL were going at night and bringing D home. She didn’t want this but it would’ve been rude for me to turn up and collect her. My family had car trouble and were still here when D came back. I wasn’t sure if they would come in but they did. H was full of chat and especially to me, he had to get off his chest all his recent fabulous life events. He acted like he did before we knew about OW2 (let’s just call her that) and not sure it occurred to him, as it did to me, that my parents were seeing him for the first time since they knew about this. He seemed oblivious. At one point he seeked me out to continue telling me stories of his work etc. I was polite, a tiny bit fun and overall just wasn’t sure how to react.

He organised to take the children out at the weekend so I accepted an offer to go out with a friend. H ended up running late and couldn’t take the children so I ended up having to cut short my night to come back and sort them out. Glad I managed to sort them. Not heard from him since.

I am focusing on trying to build up my business so every time I think about MLC or H I can force my thinking away to something more productive and enjoyable. My aim is to become super successful so it feels like H was holding me back. In truth I think he was. My sister told me to meet a rich man and make H jealous. That would also be nice but is out with my control and not sure I am healthy enough yet so I told her this is within my control and would make me feel so much more satisfied if I can do it. I have a few things that have fallen in to place with it so I am excited about that.

Recently I woke up during the night with P and I was thinking about H and it felt to me like torture. I think it is.

I’ll need my courage again this next few weeks but I’ll get through it somehow. This will be my most difficult Christmas so far it seems.

Feeling for you all
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#96: December 23, 2019, 09:55:14 PM
Hello Rose
Love the idea of ploughing your energy into your business. Sounds like you're on a mission. Go you!
I hate that thing they do when they pop up and offload all their great times on you. As. If. My H does that too. As if we're the appropriate person to download to. Shows what a mess they are. Sorry he let the kids down too  - that's new  from him isn't it? Hasnt he been a bit better than that before? In any case, it's rubbish for them and you.
Thinking of you, Rose. Hope Christmas is as good as it can be...

((((Hugs))))
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Me: 51
H: 51
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#97: December 23, 2019, 11:51:07 PM
Thanks Music

Yes hoping it was a one off letting the children down.

It’s great coming on here as this:
I hate that thing they do when they pop up and offload all their great times on you. As. If. My H does that too. As if we're the appropriate person to download to

is so true. It makes me feel better just reading it here. But then I hate that you get it as you’ve also lived it.

Lots to do today so thanks for the kind support, it means a lot
Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#98: December 24, 2019, 12:08:35 AM
Rose,

Just a thought.... H has relieved you from the job (OK, fired you sort of) of being the receptacle of his life events... In short, that means that you no longer have the responsibility (as if you ever did) to hang out and listen to the Happy Tales From the Tunnel if you choose not to...

One thing to keep in mind is to have NO expectations regarding anything that H might or might not arrange for Christmas... Maybe he will, maybe he won't.  Since MIL seems to be off into Victim Mode (Props to Mom for not playing along with the martyr act!), H may be playing into that as well....

Maybe it might be an idea to make your own plans with your parents and let H & Co. swing in the wind if he hasn't popped his head out of the fog long enough to cobble together an idea or two?

Your timeline is similar to mine in terms of BD1/ABD and I too found it difficult to really get "into" Christmas this year. I used to love it but this year, it is just a slog....

UM
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Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 13, D - 9
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Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
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Divorce final 30 August 2019

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#99: February 02, 2020, 06:44:23 AM
Oops, January has been and gone!

Christmas was ok actually. H and his parents were with us and my parents and we had a ‘normal’ Christmas. For the children it was best and I think it was as good as it could have been. We have seen him at a further couple of family events since then plus a school event and it has all been ok. I am still trying to keep my distance Compared to before I have taken another step back. I feel better for it but obviously it’s difficult seeing him occasionally as it makes things harder. For now it’s ok.

I was wanting to ask advice about my IC as I have been going for a year now. I’m not sure whether to continue or try something different. I am scared to let go of it as it’s so hard to get initially and that’s the main reason I still go. We seem to talk about what has happened that week which although it’s nice and useful i feel I can get from my friends and the amount of expertise I gain from each session is maybe not worth the time and effort in going.

I have dropped off posting here and maybe I would get more for myself if I used the time to get advice here for a while. Not sure but I have an overwhelming urge not to go back!

Rose 🌹
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Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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#100: February 02, 2020, 07:18:17 AM
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Not sure but I have an overwhelming urge not to go back!

I don't think we should consider therapy something that we need to go to forever. Sometimes we need a break, sometimes that therapist has done as much as they could to help us, sometimes a different approach is needed.

With my first therapist, which was immediately after BD, we also talked about what had gone on that week. My focus was on him, what he said, did, if he contacted me or not. I stayed in therapy for about 2 years and then just felt that I wasn't "benefiting" and stopped going.

For many years I did not go the "therapy" but then felt somehow that I was stuck and was by a freak encounter  lead to try a different type of therapy...mind body work. Her work was totally about me, how my body responds and it was a really different way to get to some of my root causes that were holding me back. I went for 2 1/2 years. It would have been shorter but there was a major event that threw me backwards so I continued.

I felt I could handle things better on my own and even though I am not seeing her (I could if I wished to go back for a session) I find that the work we did continues to impact me and steer me in a healthier direction...what transpired in her office has really stuck and it was life changing.

I look back on the first "talk" therapist I had and I don't honestly think that I benefitted from seeing her, any more than as you say, speaking to trusted friends.

Listen to your own inner voice Rose. You do know what is right for you, what is right for your family.

Quote
maybe I would get more for myself if I used the time to get advice here for a while.

Coming to HS for support or to vent or obtain some different points of view is great...but I am going to caution about getting "advice"..... I suspect many people would question why you would allow your husband to participate in Christmas and family events...there seems to be a great deal of "advice" that goes against the knowledge that we have about MLC and the process.

You may not be using the term "advice" the way I am interpreting it.

It is hard to continue to see them occasionally. That is something I had to really work at...to be able to see him without it sending me into a downward spiral..that is a huge accomplishment for me...for indeed, he is still in crisis. Seeing him doesn't shake me the way it once did and to me that is a very positive thing.

One thing my second therapist said to me that I found really helpful was I can choose to see him or not and that can change from one day to the next...that gave me a better sense of what I want to do regarding his contact or not.

Since I believe that MLC is a condition that can last for years and since I believe that it ends eventually, and I know what I want regarding our marriage and family, this has been the best thing that I could do to allow me to live my life peacefully but still with hope that someday our family will be restored.
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« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 07:23:02 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#101: February 02, 2020, 07:48:33 AM
Goodness XY I think when I say ‘advice’ this is exactly what I mean!

Maybe not advice (I wouldn’t welcome being advised on whether I should or not spend Christmas as I did unless I specifically ask about it. I decided and it was best in that time and circumstance. Not up for debate! Ha ha!) about little things but your experience on your IC is exactly what I need.

There’s nothing life changing happening with my IC and that may be my point yes.

Thanks so much you have helped me a lot!
Rose 🌹
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Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#102: February 03, 2020, 04:07:06 AM
Hello Rose
I think in all things if it's not working? Try something new.  Ha.
I think taking a break is good Rose.  Even a break from HS.
You will see what you need the most and if you need anything at all. Just go with what you feel.
I'm glad Christmas went good. I agree with you having
All the family there. Good choice.
Keep on rolling Rose.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#103: February 03, 2020, 06:01:59 AM
Helping

Lovely to hear from you. Thank you. Yes Christmas was going to be awkward whatever happened and it was better than it could have been. Not often that happens!


I’m going to try a new approach to IC this year. That feels right.

Business wise I am progressing and loving it! Hopefully it will continue and I am sure it will. The best thing that can happen to me atm is this working out. I plan to be a huge success and make it obvious H was holding me back.

BD was 3.5 years ago now. It has been horrific. Like torture. The first 6 months in 2016 I was numb. 2017 was worse with BD2 and H moving out. 2018 was calmer. 2019 was puzzling until BD3 made things clearer. 2020 I feel stronger and apart from our home/living arrangements I am settled and making plans for the first time. H is choosing a path that makes no sense to me and the less I am involved with him the better I feel. He did text me this week and I felt like he had died and this was him coming back to life. Who would not want that. Who could say ‘no thanks’. Anyway I kept myself on track.  My business helps with that as I can fully engulf myself there and reap the rewards.

UM - thanks for your note before Christmas. Hope you had a good time in the end..? It’s good to be around those with a similar timeline. Does it make us the class of 2016?

Rose 🌹
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Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#104: February 03, 2020, 07:00:51 AM
Good for you Rose. You keep yourself busy and keep moving forward.
Working out is good too. I've slacked off a little at the gym, but I'm planning on getting back at it.
Good luck with your job. I'm so glad it's working out.

Class of 2016. Well it's not a class I like, but that we are.
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#105: February 04, 2020, 02:01:26 AM
Hi Rose, glad your Christmas was nice. Good for the whole family I imagine.

Regarding IC, I think we need to do what we feel in our gut. I've been going to an IC for 5.5 years now. It was immensely helpful for my survival at first. I stopped going in October, mainly to save money but had also decided maybe I didn't need it any more. I returned yesterday and found it incredibly helpful once again. To be honest, I don't confide in RL friends any more, not the way I used to before BD. They don't understand MLC and I don't want to tell them the inner details of my finances. What I realized yesterday is that I miss having an invested partner to discuss the big questions with. My IC yesterday was like a partner. We discussed choices for my future, pros and cons and whys, and I left in a much more settled manner than I had been for weeks and weeks. As we progress, we need different kinds of help or just a teeny bit now and again.

Best of luck with your business and your fitness scheme. Sounds like a plan.
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#106: April 04, 2020, 04:03:38 AM
It’s been 2 months since I posted and the world has gone crazy. Hope you and families are all well.

Doesn’t a pandemic seem so very like MLC/BD?

So sudden, so huge, impacts every part of life, doesn’t seem real, worrying, unsure future, looking back at obvious signs and how did we miss them, protecting children, caring for parents, financially impacting, seems like crazy land.

Yip we have already been here. We were the only ones affected  however. We, LBS, had to find the vaccine on our own as only we knew how devastating this all was, it was only our finances that were affected while all other families went out and booked vacations, new furniture and complained about their other half. No wonder we were all so stunned after BD. It was our own personal pandemic. We were living in survival mode only managing to feed our children and do little else. It was unfair and devastating but we could do nothing to stop it. And it kept getting worse. We needed to focus on to our little world and isolate to protect it.

I really feel for anyone getting BD during this virus pandemic. Living with my H for a year after BD was Hell and at least we could both leave the house and the children could too.

It really worries me how people will cope getting BD at this time.

I’ll do an H update too although there’s not much to say.
Rose 🌹
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Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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#107: April 04, 2020, 04:55:59 AM
So, H in 2020.

We saw him for a family event at beginning of January then a school event mid Jan.  Then we saw him mid Feb when he saw the children then again mid March just before lockdown.

He missed a family event at end Feb as was ‘working’ but it coincided with the year before when he borrowed the car and I found mud in the passenger seat footwell (in my thread from 2019 when I was going in a run and noticed the mud just before setting off).  From the bit of ‘snooping’ I did at that time OW2, who I suspected, had a Feb birthday so go figure.

He has phoned the children a lot during lockdown. S was answering for a few days and now won’t as isn’t interested in speaking with him. D won’t answer. I have gently encouraged them to answer or call him back but they won’t. It’s not to protect me. There have been jokes going around about being in lockdown with a) your wife and family or b)...the person chooses (b) before hearing the choice. The children feel he had chosen (b) I think. Which he has. It seems more obvious he has chosen to be elsewhere. When school, work, visitors and busy life is stripped away it’s more obvious he’s not here and has chosen not to be so I think that’s why they don’t answer. Technically we won’t see him during lockdown. MLCers have their own rules so we will just see what happens.

Personally I feel a bit more settled as feel for the next few weeks at least things can’t change too much. And he can’t pop in so I can relax. I have thought for a while I could do with sleeping for a year so I am using this time wisely!

After all we are experts at living in limbo in an unsure and unsafe world.  This time with the virus it’s not as personal.

Rose 🌹
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Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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#108: April 04, 2020, 05:11:32 AM
I’m back.

During Feb I was wondering whether or not to stop counselling. I thought it through and decided to stop. For a number of reasons, none of them big but just a feeling I was getting that I wanted to stop. (Thanks for all your help in this.)

She didn’t agree as we had ‘a lot’ to work on! She was trying to sort out my relationship with H and that was never a good way to spend my time. She was judging me as a doormat and so I decided to stop. I told her all this. She said she was worried about me and didn’t agree to stopping. I am glad I did though and after 2 weeks we were in lockdown so not sure how it would have worked, I assume, over the phone with the children here. I am glad I stopped. I rarely regret decisions as I properly think them through first.

Later in the year I may get some other form of personal development. For now this slower pace of life in isolation is a welcome way of giving me time with my thoughts.

The more I think of H and what has happened the more I want away from it all. Miles away.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
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BD3 - Sept 2019
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OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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#109: April 04, 2020, 10:53:01 AM
Quote
It was our own personal pandemic.

So true. Glad to hear that you and the kids are finding your own way to cope with this shared one while 'social distancing' lol from the MLC one.  :)
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#110: April 04, 2020, 11:02:04 PM
So good to hear from you, Rose. I've been wondering how you are. You sound calm and composed.
Stay safe x
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#111: April 05, 2020, 01:56:09 AM
When you were describing Corona as a BD I felt every word. So so true.

Your H is still in voodoo land but i guess that’s the consequences of his choices. Your sound well girl!
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#112: April 08, 2020, 06:45:54 AM
Hi Rose, Catching up and good to hear from you. I so agree with what you said, as the others echoed, "It was our own personal pandemic."

Also agree as well about the healing power of time away from therapy. This slower pace is also giving me time to breathe and think-if it only did not come with so great of a cost, it would be so very welcome.  You do sound so calm.  Glad you can relax with a break from the unsettling visits.  Take care.
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#113: April 17, 2020, 10:36:38 PM
Good to hear from you Rose. I've been away from HS for awhile myself.

Well, I hope your (former) counselor has now realized that you are NOT a doormat.  ;) Funny how people - even counselors - don't understand what it's like to have an MLC spouse. How the regular rules don't apply.

Glad to hear that you are getting some rest. We're all probably about 3 years behind on sleep!

Keep being strong and courageous, Rose!
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#114: June 16, 2020, 06:08:36 AM
Hope everyone is staying well virus wise and staying detached LBS wise.

I wanted to update and notice my last post was beginning April. We have not seen H since mid March.

He called the children quite a few times. S has answered half times, just to be polite. D has not answered.

Most recently H called S and asked him to meet up for a walk. S said he had a sore head so didn’t want to. H had said he had been stressed at work and not been out (living with his parents still) for a week.  I feel for him but it’s best I don’t get in touch. 

My feeling is that this pandemic is an opportunity for H to think like he hasn’t before. Two years ago it wouldn’t have made a difference but now, at approaching 4 years since BD, him being forced like this is something I welcome. OW2 lives many miles away so not sure what has happened with that. Of course, ‘absence makes the heart grow fonder’ make apply to them, who knows.

S did go to his grandparents house last week to drop something off. H was out for a walk his parents said. H later texted S saying sorry he missed him. S was there for over an hour and his parents didn’t phone H to come back, so it must have been quite a walk.

We are approaching Father’s Day which is a difficult one (last year he went to a music festival instead) for the children. We are also approaching a significant WA so that’s difficult for me.

Overall I welcome these past few months where we have probably healed more than we would otherwise. It has brought simplicity, no change, rules around seeing each other which have made our life easier. I am prepared for this period of certainty developing as MLC does and turning into more uncertainty and being less settled but I also hope the peace we have found stays a little longer.

Rose 🌹
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BD3 - Sept 2019
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OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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#115: June 16, 2020, 07:05:53 AM
Hi RTG,

Well, looks like H still has his head shoved deep up his ....



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#116: June 16, 2020, 06:28:01 PM
Rose, Good to hear from you. I am glad you found some peace and some healing during the stillness these last few months. I am not quite ready for the world to open up again into the old frenzied pace.

I do hope your h has been doing some thinking. He certainly does seem confused and in the fog as UM colorfully notes. Hope your kids are okay despite his distance. It does seem unbelievable that he has not tried harder to see them. You do sound good and comfortable with the distance.

Hope the kids are okay with Father's Day this year and I wish you peace for WA.
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#117: June 16, 2020, 06:44:31 PM
Rose -
Great to hear from you again.
I'm sorry that H is so distant - to you and the kids.
But...  It sounds like you've made excellent use of your time with the kids, bonding and growing closer.
I hope father's day is better this year than last.
I also can relate to the significant WA as next week would have been our 30th.
MLC sucks...

Lots of hugs, and keep up posted.

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#118: July 25, 2020, 07:10:32 AM
Thanks for all your support, just an update.

We have not seen H since mid March. This is because of lockdown and the virus rather than his decision. Of course we could have seen him if he had tried but he followed the ‘rules’ and didn’t bend them at all to see us - his father did a few times and MIL too around Easter. They live around one mile walk away so it was reasonable to walk this way for exercise if it suited.

I think H would have felt awkward standing outside chatting like they did and while we could have worked around it, he didn’t ask.

He called the children instead. D has not answered and S sometimes answers.

We had a significant WA during lockdown. Not easy at all. My friend messaged me at night saying she had contacted me via a different app that morning but I had offloaded that app to help my mind and hadn’t gotten the message. I stupidly thought ‘oh that is where all my friends and family will have contacted me then’ as hadn’t heard from anyone - which is not nice.

So I opened the app and got her message. Unfortunately there was only one more message and it was from H - only a couple of hours before. I had to read it and knew it was either mentioning WA or not. He didn’t. He was mentioning money, just a silly question though. Unimportant and small. I didn’t reply and it did ruin the last couple of hours before I went to bed. Did he have to ask THAT day? Not any other day that month or the 2-3 months since we saw him. That day.

I left it around 3 days then replied nice and light. Then turned off the app again.

A few weeks later he e-mailed me and again mentioned the money and that he didn’t think I had been getting his messages (there must be more on the app I have offloaded).  I replied later that day again lightly saying I hadn’t got them and replied to his money chat.

He then replied saying D wasn’t answering to him and was she ok. He said he only wants 5 mins a week like he does with S. It wasn’t worded quite right so I think he had rewritten it to make it sound the way he wanted and hadn’t re-read it.

After an hour or so I replied saying she had struggled during lockdown and, yes, she wasn’t answering to him.

I was brief, honest and on her side. He replied saying he thought so (?) and maybe when things ease (lockdown restrictions) she might want to do something together and that he would keep trying. I didn’t reply to that one.

He hasnt tried to call her since and has kept up calling S although S doesn’t enjoy the chat.

Recently the restrictions changed and he would be able to see OW2 but no idea how that is going. Choirs are not getting to rush back so that must be frustrating them. Shame.

We are now at 4 years since BD but wondering if lockdown counts as a year rather than 3 months, ha ha! Maybe when we get a chance to look back on it this period will seem different to the rest.

The children are ok and lockdown had been good overall for them.

It has also been good for me and I have had more inner peace and although I am hesitant as to what’s ahead I am glad for this current feeling of being settled.

Rose 🌹
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Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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#119: July 26, 2020, 12:51:35 AM
Thanks for the update Rose. Good to hear from you.
Quote
We are now at 4 years since BD but wondering if lockdown counts as a year rather than 3 months, ha ha! Maybe when we get a chance to look back on it this period will seem different to the rest.
No kidding. Time has lost meaning. I was just talking about this with a friend in RL tonight. He has a family member in home hospice care and doesn't go out much and hasn't been to church in a long time. Without a weekly marker, days and weeks just blend into one long blur for him. And I know March seems like at least a year ago for me.

Quote
Recently the restrictions changed and he would be able to see OW2 but no idea how that is going. Choirs are not getting to rush back so that must be frustrating them. Shame.
Yeah. It has to be a really challenging time for a lot of cheaters. It's a real pity.

I'm very happy that you've found some more inner peace, Rose. 

To courage!
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Together 28 years, married 27
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BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019
Divorce final - September 2019
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My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11537.new#new

M
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He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#120: July 26, 2020, 09:50:03 AM
Hello Rose, it's good to hear from you.
Agree with PJ - March seems a long time ago.
Your H is a piece of work right now isn't he? I'm sorry your WA passed him by. Probably didn't. I wonder if his communication then was linked to the date somehow...in a weird MLC way. He knows he can't say anything about the date but I bet you were on his mind. Still unacceptable. It's not fair on any of you.
His going off like that after being such a clinger is a sort of movement though - the only way is through it they say.
Hugs Rose. Big hugs.
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Me: 51
H: 51
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

s
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He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#121: July 27, 2020, 02:24:43 AM
I agree with music. I think he wanted to contact you on your WA date but didn’t know what to say ir do so he did the basic thing.

I feel for your D. To know her dad isn’t making the effort with her but still calls her brother must be so hard but shows how messed up he is “I’ll keep trying” whilst doing absolutely nothing. Logical.
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Me - 28
H - 35
3 children together D3 D6 D8 (D1 D4 and D6 at the time of BD)
Together - almost 8 years

BD & MLCer moved out - November 2017
OW discovered - December 2017
Moved in with Ow - November 2019
Ow met children - December 2019

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He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#122: August 15, 2020, 05:17:01 AM
PJ - yes real shame for these cheaters!

Music - didn't think about me being on his mind on our WA.  Thanks

Sachat - logical ha ha yes!

We have now seen H.
The children had a reason to see MIL and so I needed to take them.  D refused as didn't want to see H.  So S and I went there and took P too.  MIL invited us in and I said I needed to go to the supermarket so S and P would just go in.  H was also there at the door and invited me in but I refused, nicely.  I went to the supermarket as that was true and I then popped home to see D.  I told her H was there but it would be ok and tried to bribe her to go but she was 100% sure and wouldnt go.  I tried and told her it was her decision I was just making sure she was sure. 

I went back after around an hour to collect  S and P. I had decided I would go in this time if they asked as wanted to be nice.  They did ask so I went in and it was quite 'normal' and I stayed for an hour too.

H seemed no different.  He was joking with S about me and it was all very nice.  There was a car parked outside.  When we left H said it was his.  He had bought it that week (so he says).  He started talking about the family car and that I could sell it if I wanted and get something I like better.  This is a car he loved so he doesnt seem to have any reconnection with that at all.  I made sure not to get too into the conversation as was aware if I hadnt been there I would still not know about this car he has bought so I wanted out of there.  I didnt linger and let him drag me back in/down.

S, P and I literally ran/jogged up to our car and left. S thought it was strange that H has bought a car, what must S think.

H called S the next day about school and S thought H was disappointed with him but I told him H has no idea about how things are here, S gets that so didnt worry too much about him.

H also texted D wishing her well the week after but she didnt reply.  It showed me that H knew what she was doing so is thinking about her.  MIL also texted D and D said 'thats because I didnt answer to H'.  She gets it, they dont!

I spoke with a friend this week.  We talked about H a little.  I said to her that someone we know is in a similar position. 

Its a mom, she has walked away from her only son and left him with a 'controlling' husband.  Also her beloved dogs, she has left them too.  Seeing this happen helps me see my situation clearer again.  She is a Mom who was a stay at home whose life revolved around her only son and dogs.  I know nothing of her marriage but I believe it was an unhappy one.  Within the last 2 years she has moved out, and in with a young man in an apartment in the centre of town.  She wouldnt see her young teenage son as was done with them all.  She has now split up with this man and has someone else.  She has signed custody away for her son.  The friend I chatted with on the phone couldnt believe it all and said she has tried to help her, talked to her and cant understand her.  Hopefully I helped a little as I completely get it.  It also shows me this is nothing to do with the marriage.  Seemingly she was in an unhappy one and I think this is true, but it makes no difference.  Its about her.  she is the last person to leave her son and dogs.  It was only 2 years ago she was talking to me about her son as normal and he was her world. Now she has signed him away to a 'controlling' husband.  its just so obvious that she has issues, that this is the wrong way to deal with them and the confusion of the friend I was chatting with was understandable.

Her poor son.  How can this not affect him as an adult.

Its so important us left behind stay away from this craziness and keep our children as protected as possible.

As for my situation, I am just hoping H's new purchase (car) will keep him happy enough for the next few months and let us carry on as we are.

Rose
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

M
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He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#123: August 16, 2020, 01:13:55 AM
Well done you, Rose for handling that visit so calmly. I feel for your D if she doesn't want to see her Dad. Look at how much he's missing. He may not acknowledge it now, but he will. He will come to regret ALL of this.
Your Mom friend sounds like she's a mess, doesn't she? Another sad story. How tough on her S.
You though, sound...well...like you're coping and getting on with it. Must be so tough when you see things like the new car. I remember my H showing up in new clothes and I monkey brained all over that...so a car. Yup.
Big ((((((HUGS)))))) as always.
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Me: 51
H: 51
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#124: August 16, 2020, 04:04:24 AM
Thanks Music.

Obviously during lockdown he was unable to keep busy and distract reality like he was. He could have used the time to look inside himself, maybe he did. He probably spent the entire time distracting himself with looking on-line at cars and they buying one.

He said he didn’t want to use public transport like he was which makes sense I suppose.

Anyway for now he seems no different.

The car he bought was the one S has always said he wanted as his first car...

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#125: August 16, 2020, 12:03:17 PM
You sound good Rose.

Your so right about us that we need to stay away from the craziness.  Good Lord our kids need that.
The lady you mentioned?? No doubt she sounds so confused.  And Yes, it will be hard on her son to get through it.
I didn't realize it had been that long since you had seen your H. But.you definitely handled that visit well. I had to smile a little as you said y'all were jogging to the car.

I hate that your H hasnt changed much. It seems during this erra we are in ???? We have tons of.time to think. Hell you would think the MLCers would get all their thinking done faster. But , I guess not. Even the evil virus can't speed the slow ass MLCer up any.

Good to hear from you Rose. Keep on being the good momma you always have and keep on going. Have a good one Rose.

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M
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He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#126: August 16, 2020, 12:42:27 PM
Hi Rose,  You handled that sighting so well-particularly after all that time.  Funny how these encounters all seem "normal" but they are not normal meetings, are they.  Glad you are able to push away from the crazy and start to heal. 
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BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

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He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#127: August 22, 2020, 03:56:33 AM
Thanks Help and Mal.  Its so lovely to have you in my world.

I've had a harder week.

S has a 'smart speaker' in his room.  It was flashing and I asked him why, he didn't know so I pressed a button and it said out loud 'H your travel itinerary will be delivered today'.  It must be linked up to H's account and neither of us appreciated that.  S was ok and I felt like someone had reached inside and grabbed my inner peace.

I kept S chatting and realised he was completely fine about it, probaby didnt care too much.  I went around the house and looked up what it had said about his itinerary and realised it was a road trip a few hours away.  New car, makes sense. 

It was horrible to think I could be reached like that in the 'safety' of my S's room with just he and I there but MLC can reach where you wouldnt believe.

A few days later S said he had messaged H asking him if he wanted to watch a film together the next week and H hadnt replied but had read all 3 messages.  I guessed H would be on his trip and so couldnt go so avoided replying. I said to S maybe he was busy with work and lets see what happens.  S said he didnt really care and could watch it alone and was fairly happy with that.

A couple of days later S said he had spoken with H for 20 mins on phone.  I asked what they talked about and he said school. I asked if he mentioned the missed messages and he said no.  Then he said he had talked about the film (he had split this into 1) no reply to messages 2) watching the film whereas I had lumped them both together).  S said H couldnt watch the film as was going away on a road trip with 'OW2'.  I think my eyes went as wide as saucers when he said that.  He said her actual name.  D was also sitting there.  I said 'oh he said that' (S hadnt linked the message on the smart speaker with this info) and S said yes and that he didnt care he would watch it alone. I felt like I had been hit by a truck again.  H was talking about going away like it was no problem at all to any of us. S seemed ok and D was too.  So I played it cool too not really mentioning it but unable to hide my initial reaction.

S hugged me later.  I think that was why.  It was just before bed and I knew it would affect my sleep.  I have been having nightmares recently.  Not every night but they are just so unwelcome! I didnt sleep much and all the next day I thought about it.  Mainly about how happy they must be etc and that I need to realise this is happening.

It took around 24 hours for me to 'get over' it and get back to reality.  He has not asked the children to go on a road trip.  He is in a car I checked on google that  was listed as number one when I typed in 'what kind of car does someone buy in mid life crisis'.  He has left the family, he has a 32 yo girlfriend, wears a leather jacket, is almost 50 and not seen the children for around 5 months (except when I took S round).  Its not me that needs to realise this is happening, its him who does. 

Anyway I feel on track again thankfully and I knew the peace I had during lockdown would not last when things started happening again.  S said H will watch film with him when he gets back from trip.  We'll see what happens.

This 'courage' thread has been going on for almost a year.  Thanks for being there, I'd be lost without being able to come here.

Rose 🌹
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Married 15+ years with 2 children
BD1 - 2016
BD2 - 2017
BD3 - Sept 2019
MOW Mar 2016-Jan 2018
OW2 - Feb 2019, age 30
H left home Oct 2017 to stay with his parents
Bought a family Puppy mid 2018 - referred to as ‘P’

Link to advice by my mentor, Phoenix, on what to tell the children about H leaving - reply #33 (it had a glitch)
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9313.30

M
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Re: He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#128: August 22, 2020, 04:13:21 PM
Rose, I'm sorry you had to hear this information about your H and OW's road trip. I know that any information where my H and OW were together really hurt me. You are a very good mother to have hidden your pain from your kids. What I would tell myself in these circumstances was that if my H was still seeing OW, then he was doing the boyfriend/girlfriend thing with her and that included dinners out, gifts, holidays, etc. Just that knowing the details really hurts. I did tell my kids that I didn't want to know and not to tell me.

Glad you came here to get it out of your system. Your H is still in Replay so nothing he does really matters. But your S is a lovely, caring boy who loves you very much.
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Married 1989, together since 1984 
BD May 2014,
D25, D22, S15
OW Physical Affair same one. He and she said she turned 34 the month of BD. She turned 52 this year.

M
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He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#129: August 23, 2020, 12:40:29 AM
So sorry you were hurt (again) like that Rose. I too have found out about trips H took with OW by accident (once when we had a minor emergency that I needed to speak to him about and when I called, got the international ringing tone which told me he was abroad. Cue that sinking stomach feeling).
You handled it so well with your kids. HUGE kudos to you. Bravo.
It's another insight into the OW thought process. I'd be wondering why he hasn't seen his kids in 5 months if it were me. Why there were no stories about things they do together etc. If he's lying to her about contact with them, that's a terrible foundation for a relationship. If she's turning a blind eye or not bothered, what does that say about her? He's building a relationship based on being someone he isn't. It will unravel.
Thank goodness he's not around I say...so you can get on with your lovely kids and p and let him live with his own poor choices and the consequences of those.
Hold your head up Rose. You are one strong, class act and deserve better than this leather clad, lying abandoner that your H has turned into.
(((((((HUGS)))))))
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Me: 51
H: 51
Adult S & D
BD: April 2016
Many false returns.
Effectively moved out Nov 2017 [worked away from home. Home occasional weekends]
Moved out full time: July 2018 after he renewed contact with OW.
OW: old school friend lives 200+ miles away.

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He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#130: August 23, 2020, 06:04:22 AM
Music is quite right...ow is not a 'nice' woman even if she acts nice....she is a woman who thinks it's ok to have a relationship with an older man who abandoned his wife and kids. An MLC running man who does not step up to his responsibilities as a parent and adult. Who does not choose to try to spend time with his children. Those are just facts. So she is either stupid, narcissistic, selfish or deluded. Maybe a bit of each lol. But what she is NOT is nice.

And I'd ask your son's help to disable those technology links that allow your h to be an invisible pop up ghost. Your son can contact him directly of course, but it's a pretty useful lesson on appropriate virtual boundaries for your son imho. And that you have the right to feel safe and comfortable in your own home.  :)
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

M
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He’s having a mlc 7 - Courage
#131: August 23, 2020, 02:19:43 PM
Rose,

I just cringed at your description of the "smart speaker" announcing on its own, your h's travel itinerary.  So many things are triggering - the mail each day--what news will it bring of h's antics, the phone calls for them, their own triggering texts and e-mails, the sightings, but so awful to have a trigger come when you least expect it, in the safety of your son's room.  Such a sweet son, though-these moments make us grow so much closer to our children.

Sorry about this ow, especially in the midst of your h's absences from the kids.  I cannot decide how I feel about the ow-2 in my situation.  Complicated. Sometimes it makes me feel worse than ow-1.  Unsettling that you had to hear her name, which makes it uncomfortably real.  Yet, I know they are searching for something they once had and lost.  I agree with the others, ow is not a 'nice woman."  And the leather jacket, the new mlc car - they are trying to be someone else.  Music is spot on, "  He's building a relationship based on being someone he isn't. It will unravel." 

Sorry, too, about the nightmares.  Courage is a good name for your thread right now.  Sending strength. 
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BD and moved out 9/2017
M 30 years at BD, together 34

 

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