Author Topic: Discussion "Letting Go Of Stuff "  (Read 841 times)

Offline barbiedollTopic starterTopic starter

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Discussion "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« on: September 26, 2019, 07:51:15 PM »
For me the "stuff" I need to let go of would be anger and shock.  Five years later I still can feel times of floating surreal shock. I do not know why this happens to me . Perhaps it is the gift of PTSD , I honestly do not know. But I can still sob my heart out some days in utter stunning disbelief. It has never gone away...yet. As if an affair is not enough, we will never recover financially.

But anger is the largest burden , the torture, the reason I am still so reactive, the stuff that feeds negative thinking and the roots of depression . I have been told that anger is an extreme mix of fear, deep hurt and frustration. I would add injustice, feeling "stupid" , feeling like I was not enough and deep humiliation. It is a death grip on your life, your health and your success in ever forgiving.

Today I went to a session of Reiki . I was told it might help with all that ails me , shift some energy, unblock some stuff etc etc . I will try anything that might help me heal from this MLC nightmare and the sorrow of loosing my friend. I hurt. My body hurt, my muscles. I want to actually sleep more than 4 hours . I want dreams and nightmares to stop ...I want to laugh. I want to find " happy".

She told me ( if you believe in such stuff) that she has NEVER felt such rage in anyones body. That I had a body that has forgotten how to breathe. That I was "blocked " with such negative energy and emotion etc etc . She asked me what happened ...I do not tell about my PTSD. She says I have been in this state for years but something more recent has happened. Indeed, I had a nasty exchange with my middle daughter ( who has not spoken to me since) and that just hurts too. It all hurts. I just cried through the entire process . UGH !

My mantra tp practise while I breathe .." Inhale the light ...exhale the dark". I can do that . She tells me over and over that I need to "let it go". Ok, I have been told this many many times …"let it go".  Now , if I knew how to do that , would I not have already done it? . What is wrong with me that I can not "let it go?".   So, maybe it is simply that I do not know how to do that. What exactly are the steps, the magic, the instructions ? Where do you start? What do you need in order to have this "letting go" thing happen?.  What does it even mean ?. I would love to hear from anyone who has accomplished this . Precisely.

I know that not everyone has "anger" to let go of. Some need to let go of fear or  deep paralyzing hurt. Maybe its depression for some . We all have something that needs to be gone after an experience with a MLC'er. What are you trying to "let go of" and how are you doing that?"  I really want to know .
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline Couragedearheart

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2019, 08:20:03 PM »
Barbie,

For me it’s letting each thing be named OUT LOUD, while embracing and accepting the feeling
“I am angry about x and I feel that anger it’s a knot in my stomach, my ears feel hot, I want to yell and scream, I’m grateful for this anger, it’s a part of me, it lets me know my boundaries are violated and if feels unjust.....I accept that I’m angry, I have the right to be angry and to speak my truth,
And just feel that feeling....it diminishes the more you just feel it and accept it then as it starts to fade and feel less sharp release it, verbally and you can even visualize it if it helps....(for anger I often have to move and expend energy to release it) and say out loud that you feel it diminishing, you feel the knot untying, you feel your body relax

There are YouTube videos for tapping that are for each specific emotion so once I identify the exact emotion and what’s its tied too...I then identify how it feels in my body to experience that emotion and then do the tapping. It’s EFT  emotional freedom technique or emotional freedom tapping.

I hope this helps
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Anjae

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2019, 08:25:23 PM »
Perhaps it is the gift of PTSD

It could be.

I have been told that anger is an extreme mix of fear, deep hurt and frustration.

It is. But it can also be cause by biological reasons others than the one that cause fear. What I mean is a person may be lackig certain things (vitamins, minerals, etc) and/or have hormonal problems, including with cortisol (stress). Or a number of other things.

You can't sleep more than four hours? Terrible nightmares? Do you think your brain is lacking something? Serotonine, something else?

I think whatever if the issue it is clear it is affecting your body, and most likely your brain. Have you considered seeing a neurologis and/or endocrinologist? Therapy alone does not seem to be cutting it.

Nothing left for me to let go. I'm mourning, but that is different. If you go by my thread you will see I come to conclude Mr J is not coming out of MLC. It is strangely liberating and calming.

How did I let go? It was more a case of my own MLC ending, getting minerals and vitamins, doing meditation and gentle exercise. And, as Couragedearheart says, feeding the soul.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline OffRoad

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2019, 10:21:19 PM »
Some of us have physical "stuff" to let go. Recently, I have been able to do so because for me, I do not need those "things" to fill an empty space any longer.

Barbie, might it be you fear letting the anger go because if it were gone, you are afraid there will be nothing to replace it and you will feel empty? That anger is better than nothing at all?
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline Anjae

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2019, 11:52:49 AM »
Barbie, might it be you fear letting the anger go because if it were gone, you are afraid there will be nothing to replace it and you will feel empty? That anger is better than nothing at all?

Quite an interesting point of view.
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline strawberry

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2019, 02:27:03 PM »
I just want to second what Anjae said about it possibly being an actual physical thing.  I am continually surprised by how much a vitamin or hormone imbalance can affect seemingly unrelated things and as you were describing some symptoms, I immediately wondered about your thyroid and your cortisol levels.  It might be something to look into (and don’t settle for just a tsh test, get the T3, T4, cortisol tests).  Natrapath if they have those types of doctors in your area are best.
H: 44
M: 45
M: 2003, T: 2001, Friends: 1996
No kids
2 dogs, 2 cats
BD1 (Summer 2014) "We aren't happy, I should move out, we should divorce"  Nothing happened.
Nov 2014 we moved across the country for H's job
BD2 (July 2015) "I'm not happy.  I want a divorce"  H moves out for 2 weeks.
BD3 (Nov 2017) H takes a new job 2 hours away and moves out.
BD4 (September 2018) OW2 discovered despite claims there has never been one.  She outs MOW1 and discloses that H filed for Divorce, but has not served me.  OW2 dumps him.

Offline barbiedollTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2019, 06:55:33 PM »
Quote
I just want to second what Anjae said about it possibly being an actual physical thing.  I am continually surprised by how much a vitamin or hormone imbalance can affect seemingly unrelated things and as you were describing some symptoms, I immediately wondered about your thyroid and your cortisol levels.  It might be something to look into (and don’t settle for just a tsh test, get the T3, T4, cortisol tests).  Natrapath if they have those types of doctors in your area are best.
.

Thanks Strawberry... I recently had a complete physical, pap, mammo...the entire thing. All "normal" . I do realize that thyroid can be misleading and needs a complete reading. I will request that ..just to check again. As for cortisol ..I do have adrenal fatique with very low ( if any cortisol) . That was the result of a test I took ( saliva) with a naturopath about 18 months ago. I have been taking a cortisol supplement . I take vitamins and liquid minerals. Not sure what else I could do .. My family doctor has no interest or education regarding adrenal/cortisol issues. I will re-visit this thyroid test.

Quote
Barbie, might it be you fear letting the anger go because if it were gone, you are afraid there will be nothing to replace it and you will feel empty? That anger is better than nothing at all?
.

I just do not know. If this is true , it would have to be some subconscious thought because I have never had those thoughts. Very interesting and I will ponder that .  Anger is incredibly crippling for me now...it served its purpose, it was appropriate for a time and it was uncontrollable fury. But I now longer need any of it. I have had anger issues most of my adult life …this is not a new issue. But I had it under control and I was managing my life .  Then came MLC . And an unspeakable unrelenting rage. I have improved in the past 2 years.( a lot?) .but it is not gone. If I get triggered and get angry …I almost leave the planet, shake, have zero control, sometimes loose peripheral vision, scream and the need to "flee" is SO extreme that I pace and try to figure out how to leave, where to go . I can barely breathe. Its a horrible horrible feeling. It is less and less that this happens and I recover much faster than before. I am successful at times with certain techniques ( internal dialogues, chanting, visualization, changing the initial thought etc etc ... I put an ice pack on my back or shoulders or I crunch it in my hands to stimulation some of the 5 senses to get grounded . Sometimes I resist calming down or any of my "tools" because I feel justified in my anger and do not want to calm down.

I am asking about this experience of "letting go". How?  Is it some kind of spiritual movement ? An emotional experience ... I do not understand when a person says " I finally just let all my anger and rage go".  How?

Quote
You can't sleep more than four hours?
.

I do not know any women in my age group ( 55-60 ) that are not complaining about an inability to stay asleep. Menopause related ?. Ptsd does interfere with sleep patterns . I do take a low does seratonin medication. If I wake and cannot fall asleep, I take a "Sleep Mineral " ( magnesium, calcium and zinc) and try to get back to sleep. It is a very big issue.

Quote

For me it’s letting each thing be named OUT LOUD, while embracing and accepting the feeling
“I am angry about x and I feel that anger it’s a knot in my stomach, my ears feel hot, I want to yell and scream, I’m grateful for this anger, it’s a part of me, it lets me know my boundaries are violated and if feels unjust.....I accept that I’m angry, I have the right to be angry and to speak my truth,
And just feel that feeling....it diminishes the more you just feel it and accept it then as it starts to fade and feel less sharp release it, verbally and you can even visualize it if it helps....(for anger I often have to move and expend energy to release it) and say out loud that you feel it diminishing, you feel the knot untying, you feel your body relax
.

Couragdearheart..thank you . I do practise these kind of techniques as it is exactly what my therapist has taught me. I also have to move and physically burn it off. It is so overwhelming and consuming that at times "flee" in a panic state is all consuming. I would be embarrassed to tell all the things I have smashed ...including his truck. At times I am successfull calming myself just as you have explained . Other times ..not at all. I am thankful these episodes are far less frequent than before. But they are not gone. I was tapping for awhile and then stopped. Maybe time to re-visit that practice.

I remember being told when I was in the Trauma facility that I suffered a deep "soul" injury. This article talks a bit about that and the reasons for anger . I can understand and feel them all .

https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/anger-after-infidelity-its-6-roots





Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline Couragedearheart

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2019, 08:11:03 PM »
There is always the option of pool noodle fights.....🤷‍♀️
Smash houses....(places you can go and smash things) although for this I would need to mentally make each item I smashed a certain thing or issue I was angry about and only then once I had smashed it to bits would I feel better.
Go scream!
Take some kickboxing.
Demolish something but label it the thing that you are angry about and verbalize and decide that once you have destroyed it you are destroy the anger about it as well, then demolish it till that feeling is satisfied.

Fear thoughts I work out best when running because running from fear is a healthy response and running while feeling fear thoughts and emotions soothe the need to properly respond to the fear.

Find a peaceful place and go there when you are at your Most calm and peaceful, do deep breathing and grounding techniques, do soothing things, verbalize that you are calm and safe, you are in control. There is nothing you need to do or respond to in this moment, you are okay, you can relax.

Do it till going to that place instantly relaxes you.

Think about that place in your mind when you are relaxing.  Soon you will be able to use it whenever you need it....you will be able to do it after working through an anger or fear emotions and remind yourself that you are safe, you are in control, you can relax now, you dealt with that emotion and don’t need to keep it anymore.
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2019, 08:46:42 PM »
Barbie,

Maybe you can buy some boxing gloves and a heavy bag to hang in the garage. Boxing is a great workout and might be therapeutic. But make sure you're wearing proper gloves while you're hitting the bag.

Offline OffRoad

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2019, 10:54:39 PM »
Back in the day, I would run or bike to burn off angry energy. But that didn't solve the actual problem that caused the anger and the anger would reappear. I found then, and still sometimes find, that my anger is usually caused by feeling out of control of a situation. Tha IRS letter that you find in your mail when you get home from work Friday evening and you can't deal with until Monday. The teacher who knows your child has Executive Function Disorder and an IEP for it but waits until it is almost too late to inform you your child isnt going to pass x grade because while hes been doing the homework at home somehow it never arrived in the teachers hands, but the teacher waited four months to tell you no homework was turned in, but not quite too late if the entire family spends 24/7 helping by typing or ironing the papers that were crammed into the bottom of the backpack. The guy who walks out on you, leaving you with no job or money and one child in high school and one in college. You know, those things.

All I could do was distract myself, and dissapate energy. Driving off road worked for me.so does building something, or refinishing something or creating something. Listening to music. Coloring. Dancing.

I have no experience with continual rage, my heart goes out to you.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline Nerissa

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2019, 12:27:53 AM »
This man is good on anger:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Facing-Fire-Experiencing-Expressing-Appropriately/dp/0553372408

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anger-Solution-Developing-Long-Lasting-Relationships/dp/0738212601

You can see if you think he has anything useful for you by looking at the anger section in his website:

https://johnleebooks.com/2017/06/06/over-anxious/


I’m not religious but I did find the books by Eknath Eshwaren very helpful as his own life and words are full of genuine love and forgiveness:

https://www.amazon.com/Eknath-Easwaran/e/B000APGY1O%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share

If you decide you might buy any of his books I would start with ‘Passage Meditation’ and ‘Strength in the Storm’ or ‘Timeless Wisdom. ‘.  They are calming and nourishing.

I’ve mentioned before that I take bioidentical hrt.

For me, anger powered me to keep going but it exhausted me.  When I first experienced a physical sense of letting it go without using books etc to change my thinking, I felt a sense of ‘lowering’. It was a sense of deep sadness which I had been guarding against with fury.  It was painful but also a relief and felt kind of peaceful.  I think this is surrender.

Apart from anger over infidelity and mlc, I am quite ‘fighty’ about things and I’ve learned I use impatient or irritable ways when I am frustrated in any way, I have a touch of what I call ‘small
Dog syndrome’.  But I do not generally have a problem with anger - it was more, in a day to day sense, learning about more gentle communication. 

Good luck with feeling better. X

Online Treasur

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2019, 01:15:29 AM »
Anger happens not to be my thing, my language I suppose.
But I know a lot about fear and PTSD lol.

I think we can learn skills and tools to cope, just as you have done.
And then I think - and it is a sign of progress in healing - we reach a point where we want to do more than that, to go deeper and really try to 'let it go'. So even asking the question, Barbie, is a good thing.

I don't know what it is like to physically experience that kind of anger in the way you describe. But I absolutely know what it is like to physically feel a kind of overwhelming wordless kind of Fear...and my physical description of that would be quite similar. It does feel like me and not me, something not always in my control, something other. And that is rather frightening too.

Do you want to 'let it go' or do you want to 'remove it' from your life? I ask bc I think they are a different kind of shift. The first is maybe more like opening your metaphorical hand. The second more like pushing something out with your metaphorical hand perhaps. Do you know which it feels like? Or something else indeed?

It sounds as if you feel that a kind of rage, either suppressed or unleashed, has been a companion for a long time including before the events of the last few years? Do you feel it is a PTSD type of thing? If so, research suggests that addressing it physically may help. Acupuncture seems to have a good track record...and building on your Reiki experience that might be worth a try. Trauma really does live in our bodies imho, much more than in our cognitive brain. It is imho almost impossible to 'think' your way out of trauma.

Imho 'letting go' of anything...or indeed deciding to remove it...usually means looking at the benefits of keeping it. Bc a pattern even in trauma serves a purpose even if it is an unconscious one. It is our systems survival response so part of our brain is doing it for a good reason at the time. But perhaps the times change and it stops being useful in the same way? What does anger give you as a gift, Barbie? How does/did it help you survive?

My Fear...and I had never felt anything like it before...the gift of my Fear and the Avoidance that came with it for me was to hide me until I could get strong enough to feel safe enough. I did not trust myself to keep myself safe for the first time in my life. It has taken me about three years probably with the odd hiccup. I honestly believe that I would have been dead without PTSD to hide me for a bit, much as I hate PTSD and resent it's effects on my life.  :)

Letting go, for me, was part of the process but it only got me so far even with EMDR. Pushing it away...which is where I am now...is about feeling that I can trust myself enough now that I no longer need the Fear to keep me safe. And actually feeling that the Fear is more of an enemy than a friend. So anything I can do now that pushes it away...that shows me I don't need it now even if I did need it...actions big and small, mantras in my head about being strong and capable, every time I do something and keep the Fear away I start to make new evidence for my amygdala that I don't need the Fear to keep me safe as I did. I say to myself 'see, you don't need it now'....But it is a work in progress and I do fall over sometimes. Which is frustrating but ok as long as I keep my soul's eye on the goal and image - for me - of cutting it out and pushing it away. It used to feel like a cloak but now it feels like a much smaller kind of lump that sits in my midriff if that makes sense?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 01:19:31 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Nerissa

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2019, 02:18:19 AM »
This man seems good.  Dr Christian Conte.  He is a psychologist who has studied Zen Buddhism in some depth.  He also writes about parenting.  His techniques are practical and generalist  and as Treasur has said, you perhaps had ptsd type experiences before all this started.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qxEYjvNU__w


Edited to add this - it’s good.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QZI7VjwvZx8
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 02:50:00 AM by Nerissa »

Offline Songanddance

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2019, 08:22:39 AM »
Quote
I am asking about this experience of "letting go". How?  Is it some kind of spiritual movement ? An emotional experience ... I do not understand when a person says " I finally just let all my anger and rage go".  How?


Letting go is not a one size fits all and for some people it can happen like a hurricane and for others it can be a very peaceful realisation that you have let go. 
Not only that I don't believe you can just let go of one thing and then all is well. It is a process and sometimes there is a lot to let go and so time is the only way that letting go can happen. 

Is it a conscious decision - for some yes and for some no.  For some people it can be a reflective realisation.

Is it an action or emotional experience - for some yes and for some no.  The actions or experience could be huge and overwhelming or not.

There is no one way to let go of any emotional/ psychological trauma or event and sometimes I think being told to "let go" has the opposite effect. 

Barbie - take your time and stop beating yourself up because you believe you haven't "let go"

You have much to be angry about - a mother who seems to show you little support or validation, an MLCer H who came back too soon and who, whilst he is receiving counselling,  has been or is reluctant to share with you money issues. A few family issues with your own children or children in law and finally the loss of your closest friend.

So perhaps looking at what specifically about each situation had made you angry may help you begin the process of understanding how you could begin to reduce your anger. 

For example - your mother's treatment of you has been IMHO  shocking but you know that her withholding affection or support hasn't changed since your childhood.
So what is it exactly about her withholding affection and support that makes you angry?
Is it out of frustration because you have tried so many times to get her to understand why you need her support? 
In essence is she likely to change? 
Do you know deep down inside of you that this is banging head on brick wall time with her?
Can you recognise that you are feeling frustrated at feeling frustrated with her?

At what point can you say " Ok - she's not going to change and so is my effort to encourage/persuade her otherwise really worth my emotional energy?  "

When you recognise that you will begin the process of letting your frustration go. How you do that is upto you. Can she the kickbag you can kick or punch when doing kickboxing or boxing? Can she be the sole focus when you receive EMDR which can reframe your thinking and allow you to distance your emotions?  Is she the recipient of a letter or several (which you won't send) but you will write and rewrite and condense into one or two sentences?  These are just examples of beginning the process of letting go.

Perhaps identifying all the causes of your anger - from the specific to the general and writing them all down and then trying to order them in terms of highly stressful to just irritating is a good way to start.

Most importantly Barbie - don't punish yourself any further.  You recognise that you have deep rooted anger and you recognise that it is harming you - the rest is time and accepting that you will learn to be ok - when - who knows but you will.

BD march 2013
Stay at home MLCer
OW for 3.5 years - finishing Autumn 2016
Reconnection started 2017 through 2018.
2019 is the year of Decisions!

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2019, 08:52:26 AM »
There's a lot of good stuff in what Treasur has written.

Your anger sounds like a trauma related stress response. When feeling stressed, threatened or unsafe, Treasur feels fear, I dissociate (freeze), it sounds like you feel anger. Three different types of stress responses but they all serve the same purpose.

Treasur asked you how you benefit from your anger but I think she answered that question for you. The anger makes you feel safe. It protects you. What can you do to reduce the stress you're experiencing so you don't need the anger? What can you do to feel safe without the anger?

I think stress reduction is important. I think it's like we have a stress bucket and life is manageable as long as our stress level is below the top of the bucket but once the bucket starts to overflow our stress responses kick in and our lives become unmanageable. Little things we can do to remove sources of stress from our lives can reduce the level of stress in our bucket and make it easier to manage the stress that occurs that we can't do anything about. Exercise and meditation are often used for stress reduction but we can also look for small sources of stress that are easily resolved. For example, if you've been feeling stressed because the kitchen floor needs cleaned but have been too overwhelmed to take care of it, take an hour and eliminate that source of stress or recruit somebody else to do it for you.

Often, people with our backgrounds find it difficult to ask for help. If some of your stressors could be easily removed with a little help, try asking for help. You might find that your loved ones want to help you, they just don't know what to do or how to do it. Start with little things first and, as you learn who you can trust to help you, work up to the bigger things with them.

Reduce the stress in your life and it could reduce the anger that you feel. Trust others to help you and it could increase your feeling of safety and reduce the anger that you feel.

Your mother was supposed to protect you and she didn't. Your husband was supposed to protect you and he didn't. Of course you're angry. What can you do to you find that feeling of being safe and protected?

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2019, 09:30:35 AM »
A little while after I wrote this I realized I had written a prescription for myself to help me to stop dissociating. I also realized that I'm not too enthusiastic about following my own advice. I like dissociating and I'm not sure I want to stop doing it. Then I wondered whether Barbie might feel the same way about giving up her anger.

Online Treasur

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2019, 09:43:21 AM »
OMG, Brain, same thing happened to me today...how we write our own prescriptions of ephinany right? Hmm, this journaling stuff might work...just with extra free HS brains  :)...plus Brain of course.

Oh, and if it helps, I am an equal opportunity parasympathetic nervous system kind of gal...I do fear AND disassociation  :)....shame we can't all swap like when you have duplicate baseball or soccer cards (do they even have those nowadays?)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 09:44:39 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline terra

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2019, 09:44:24 AM »
Somewhere it’s been said that anger is just the tip of the iceberg — the most readily visible emotion where so much else is beneath the surface. I recently felt and said this in sharing with a group of LBS offline. It’s the recognizable and “acceptable” way of grieving socially, because for some lame reason, except in key communities like this one, people at large are not very willing to or competent at handling or witnessing another person’s vulnerability and deep sorrow.

So generally anyone will mouth off or be surly or aggressive rather than just do what the body or heart actually wants to do, which is often enough (for me at least) just to cry it all out in someone else’s safe arms, embrace, or strength or willing comfort.

How the human race is still even managing through all the many stressors of life today, I don’t even know.

barbie, I’d be p!ssed if a Reiki or other healing practitioner told me they’d “never” felt such rage in another person’s body. Or that my body had forgotten how to breathe, that I was blocked, etc. But that’s my thing to let go of — I take everything literally and very personally. So just know that her words may be a hint but not altogether your or your body’s full truth. Your body knows what to do. My big unasked opinion, for what it’s worth, is that therapeutic massage can help the body relax into basic natural “pre-trauma” state, at least long enough for you to remember what that state feels like and how it feels to surrender down into trusting another person and being fully vulnerable and fully safe again in someone else’s human hands and physical healing expertise. That can go a long way for us in releasing at least some of the fear and pain at least for a little while — and with that temporary peace and relief, maybe we can have some moments of real insight about how everything has affected us and how we can at least begin to move forward more confidently.

The main thing is that the body does want to live and thrive and be cared for and listened to. That can be done in touch and in silence. In my own state of stress or trauma, what I usually most need is the safety to let down my guard and just watch the thoughts as they spring forward and away. Your mileage may vary but I’ve found the massage table or mat to be an almost holy place for that quiet review and, I want to say, quantifiable release.

Also worth looking at whether being tagged as angry or full of rage is a perception that really works for you. What I mean is, is there anything about that outer perception that *you* like. Because we do move through life sort of accidentally or haplessly wearing the labels that other people put on us, and you might find that when you are all to yourself, just you and free of other people’s perceptions, maybe in your deepest heart you are not a rageful person at all, and never actually were. It’s Right and reasonable for you to be angry and upset and hurt and scared about everything you’ve been through and are still going through and coping with. But maybe underneath all of that, you are truly a beautiful, loving, gentle, and lovely woman, who is simply in a terrible season and surrounded by loved and important people who are just not listening or being good to you.

I’m saying that because it’s true of me. Not that we are victims (except that we also are) but that we are legitimately hurt and needful and weirdly being mislabeled by others around us who either do not have capacity/intelligence to help or comfort, or who inexplicably don’t want to.

My solution has been lately to just kick those people all the way out. I know that option isn’t realistic for many of us and maybe I’m blessed to be in a position to do it. What I can tell you is that my life — and my anger level — feels much more manageable without those relationships in play. We need time for healing, as much as we would if these injuries were fully physical in form. So if you think a kind of quarantine is called for, just know that you do have a right to employ it. Period.

My best way out of anger: prayer, journaling, nature, *positive* relations, and finally — taking excellent care of *my own* needs and wants. If any part of your anger or rage is about not getting or having your own basic or just whimsical needs met, it can be helpful to selfishly spend time looking at what those needs are and why you have them. And then just as selfishly, and JOYOUSLY, setting about meeting them yourself, for yourself, and in the ways that you like.

The worst thing for me sometimes in all this is not that he cheated or lied or left or stays away, but rather that he said so many things to me that made me feel broken and wrong — which I wasn’t and still am not. So a large part of my healing and path forward has been about identifying those deliberate untruths — not just his, but also the bad perceptions assigned to me by many others, including exes, former in-laws, former best friends, and my own mother. And then seeing how those wrong perceptions folded into my self-perception for so long, because, “the common factor is you”. Then realizing how untrue THAT is.

If you believe at core that you are rageful and problematic, or if it works for you on some secretly (not shameful!) appealing level, then that’s ok and you work with it slowly and as you like.

But if that’s a message that you are getting or have got for a long time from important others in your life? It might be a good time to examine whether it is really, at core, true of you. And if it’s not your core truth, it might be a good time to draw new boundaries for those relationships you would like to continue. And that can be done slowly and incrementally and gently, or ;) if you’re like me at all, it can also be done with swift and certain resolve.

This of course is me responding from my place of taking it all literally and personally. But I do think we take on an awful lot of garbage from other people's poor perceptions, projections, or lack of empathy or experience or insight. And if that’s what’s going on for you in any way, well. I don’t want that to happen to you anymore.

I want for you to be listened to, and really fully heard. Every time.

Offline Thunder

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2019, 10:13:40 AM »
Song, that is exactly what my kids had to learn to heal.

Won't get into how abusive their dad (my 1st H) was but they were constantly getting hurt by him, making promises and never going through with them. Constantly letting them down.  This went on for years until one night my daughter called crying....."Mom I hate him!  I just hate him!"

I said to her...D aren't you getting tired of expecting him to act like a loving father?  It's not going to happy.  You guys spend all this time hating him and being upset...and it doesn't effect him.  It effects you. He doesn't care if you hate him, he's not dwelling on your feelings.  He's living his life.

I told her make up your mind he is an A-hole, he will always be an A-hole, so you have 2 choices, you can either stop having a relationship with him, or you can knowing he is an A-hole and accept he isn't going to change.  The choice is yours.

All 3 of them cut him out of their lives and started healing, until he was on his deathbed.  Then they all traveled to be with him...and lo and behold he apologized to each one of them for everything he had done..
That was very healing for them too.

Sorry Barbie for taking up so much space on your thread, but maybe some of this might help.  Sometimes, no matter who it is, you just have to cut toxic people out of you life.

Hugs
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Online Treasur

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2019, 10:20:21 AM »
The big message I got from Terra's post that just felt instinctively right was about hearing and seeing yourself somehow. Every time. Letting your body and soul speak without interference or restraint. That kind of just rang true to me, even more true than removing other people's voices from your head.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2019, 10:22:45 AM »
Massage sounds like a great suggestion. If not for Barbie, then for me. :)

How the human race is still even managing through all the many stressors of life today, I don’t even know.

Amen!

OMG, Brain, same thing happened to me today...how we write our own prescriptions of ephinany right? Hmm, this journaling stuff might work...just with extra free HS brains 

Treasur, you're giving away my secret.  :)

I suspect a lot of what I share on here may seem inappropriate and far too personal but I admit to using this forum as a form of interactive journaling to help me to make sense out of the things that I've been learning. That's why I had to leave for a while, because I was getting uncomfortable with sharing so much information about myself, and that's why I had to return, because I have no other outlet for my thoughts and questions.

Thunder, thanks for sharing the sad but great story about the lesson your children had to learn.

Offline Anon

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2019, 12:02:07 PM »
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I know that not everyone has "anger" to let go of. Some need to let go of fear or  deep paralyzing hurt. Maybe its depression for some . We all have something that needs to be gone after an experience with a MLC'er. What are you trying to "let go of" and how are you doing that?"  I really want to know .

Barbie - I also feel stuck on anger and have had many discussions about it with my therapist.   I’m done with my M but I am tormented by the intrusive angry thoughts.  I fear it will destroy me if I don’t find a way let it go.  There clearly will be no lasting peace until I do.

So,,,this is where the discussion led and I didn’t like it,,,still don’t, but this therapist is really good so I am going to do what he asks.   Read a book.    The title is Forgiveness by Simon and Simon.  Ugh,,I know.   I have resisted saying there is no way I am ready to Forgive.   He says he is not asking me to forgive but just read the book, that’s all.

So I have cracked the book.  I am not far into it but I can see already that the forgiveness that this book is talking about is NOT what we all typically think of when it comes to forgiveness.  It’s different and after reading the little I have, I am interested in continuing because I am getting a hint of the release that’s possible to achieve.   It still sticks in my throat but I’ll read a bit more.

I have been seeing this therapist for awhile now and what initially brought me in was my unrelenting anger and the intrusive thoughts that go with it.  Early on he mentioned this book briefly but said it was for a bit later in therapy.   So I guess he understands that even a hint of forgiveness is a bitter pill to swallow and one must be ready to consider it.  I guess he now thinks I might be ready to receive the message it contains.   I’m not so sure but ,,,,I’ll read it.   Nothing to lose.  I am intrigued though.

Online Mortesbride

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2019, 06:29:45 AM »
Hmm this a tough one.

I always thought there are two types of anger (perhaps more). You got cold icy anger, that is passive agressive, giving silent treatments, making snarky comments...sitting just below the surface simmering away and eating at you.  Then I think I have a very different type of anger. An almost...red hot fury at times.

My anger almost always stems from
1. Feeling deeply hurt
2. Seeing injustice
3. Cowardice

As you can imagine it was going off like a ticking bomb at the beginning of this journey.  :o

My anger is never really a 'sit in it and stew situation' although I do get this sort of...''annoying bee stage'' as I call it. Where everything just seems to irritate you, when you are waiting for the idiot to do something dumb and tick you off. That type of anger seems to happen around days when I think about one of the three above.

But when my anger comes it COMES. Red hot rage at times for some of the things he did. Overall though I would say this was only about 4 times in our relationship, all within the year of BD.

What's my point you ask?

I find it easier to actually let yourself feel the rage, and try your hardest to channel it. Punch the $h!te out of the pillow, or go to boxing, or burn an old love letter...or just scream and cry or whatever.

And then when it is all out...I am all good for a long time.

Anger doesn't always have to be a bad thing. Sometimes it can be exactly what you need, to do the thing you need to do.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline terra

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2019, 08:26:22 AM »
I find it easier to actually let yourself feel the rage, and try your hardest to channel it. Punch the $h!te out of the pillow, or go to boxing, or burn an old love letter...or just scream and cry or whatever.

This is so smart/wise — let yourself feel it, then do something with it as your body is asking you to. A lot of relief can be had in allowing the body to follow through with its instinctive natural responses or reflexes. Like putting your hands up to fend off “attack”, or throwing something “away” or off. Fetal position (which probably we all are pretty familiar with even if we don’t admit it out loud) or hugging oneself, needed gestures of comfort that may not be coming from others at the times we most want or need. Strong actions like swimming or running or weight lifting, or simple constructive “hard work” ones like clearing the yard, moving old things out of house or garage, cleaning up, cooking (self nurturing).

There’s been study on the more aggressive gestures, though, and it’s thought now that punching pillows etc. may serve to keep anger going rather than just discharging and releasing it. So that solution may deepen or even intensify the anger groove. If that seems true for you, it’s worth looking at the emotions underneath the anger or rage, and maybe seek to express or console those deeper or hidden vulnerable ones. In my house, we have luck with countering anger or rage with actions or textures or practices that soften, are gentle, are quietly supportive of the mind that is hurt and feeling unrest.

And this may sound dumb, but, you’re never too old for a beautiful cozy stuffed animal. Sometimes it’s the inner child who is most hurt, and it’s ok for you to comfort and appease that inner youngest you with a thing of sweetness and simple care. A living pet may be a better choice on some level but the nice thing about a loved stuffie is that your inner child (or your suffering adult self) is not tasked with the responsibility of daily feeding, watering, and cleaning up after it.

Inner child may have got a bad rap for a long time in family or culturally. But it’s worth listening to hear which age of you hurts the most. The youngest expression of you is probably preverbal and mostly mute — not because shamed or anything bad, but because developmentally that youngest you was so young that it didn’t and still doesn’t know or have language. So that one may communicate in the body gestures or physical responses/reactions or impulses. And when it does, it may do so with incredible force or strength. Everyone around you (family, friends, health professionals, the world) may see this as acting out. It’s actually just an aspect of you that needs care, the gentle kind a good caregiver would give.

We may not have any model of good caregiver in our upbringing. That doesn’t mean you aren’t one yourself! So if some part of you is crying out visibly or deep in your core the way a hurt, angry, afraid child might, and if it feels uncontrolled, over the top, and inconsolable — it’s not any of those things. You are a good person and a good and gentle heart: you know EXACTLY how to nurture and calm that hurt or fright. Just treat you WELL, and with the same compassion you would give to the youngest person you have ever known and loved.

I think so much of recovery is about coming to know and console and integrate all the hurt parts of ourselves. It seems cliche or canned when anyone advises that we should love ourself first in order to have solid reliable love with others? But maybe a better way of saying it is that it’s important we know how to take good care of ourselves when anyone else isn’t on hand to relate to for certain things.

That said, sometimes it does feel best to take the anger out on a punching bag or kickboxing class, or by breaking or burning something. I also have felt satisfied after time at a shooting range, but honest to God, I feel a real need to be very cautious with that, as sometimes I have been THAT angry, the kind that makes you understand how people snap and commit terrible violence. And I hope it’s safe to say that here, because it’s the truth and I think it’s one of the most frightening aspects of betrayal, the raw primitive things that fly through our minds afterward. What I’ll offer is that for me it was good to channel that in a safe and structured arena, in a setting of skill and achievement. That way, it was both discharged and safely contained. Others may find similar satisfaction with bashing balls in a batting cage or golf range, or even at a pool table.

And the act of burning — old journals worked for me — can satisfy the urge or need or wish to “destroy” something or to rid yourself of it. This can be a very intentional release and almost like a physical prayer. You examine it, review it in full (or not), acknowledge the lessons learned in it, GIVE THANKS to the lessons, the object, and to the you that you were when you first owned or wrote it, and then gently set it on fire and just tend it until it is nothing but ashes. And then sweep and bury the ashes, or pour water over them and cleanse them away. I burned a number of old journals and writings this year and I can’t tell you what a relief it was to rid myself and my life of so much heaviness, naïveté, and past confusion. I don’t regret it. I learned a lot in those years, but the lessons have been fully learned, and there’s no value in my keeping records of those experiences anymore. They aren’t aligned with who I am now.

Thank you for letting me go on about it in your thread. I’m doing so just in case my examples spark something for you; I know we all have different ways of doing and surviving, but my hope is that as we share specifics, we may realize we have both opportunity and permission to experiment with other ways too.

The main idea is to feel it, and if you find action may help discharge or release it, find what works for you. I really do think we all are very well rounded people and that even if we are angry, even over the top or angry “all the time”, that’s a human response to this level and type of trauma, and it’s to be accepted and companioned and worked through with love and patience.

Thanks Mortesbride for a super wise set of thoughts.

Offline OffRoad

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2019, 11:53:08 AM »
What I am seeing here is that anger can be triggered by different things from different people. Morte's examples were 1. Feeling deeply hurt 2. Seeing injustice 3. Cowardice

None of those make me angry, although seeing injustice and having no control over overcoming it would. Seeing injustice and being able to do something about it would not make me angry. (It makes me motivated to change the situation) Feeling hurt makes me sad. True cowardice makes me feel disgust.(self protection is not necessarily cowardice )  This is my mileage only. My point is that it is different than Morte's

So, what is it that is making you angry, Barbie? Specifically, does it come out of "nowhere", is it a memory that triggers it, or is there something that happend that causes it? Is it something it the past you cannot change, hence why you want to let it go, or is it something that yet can be changed, hence the difficulty of letting go.

Example, not knowing where the money went. Are you angry because it is gone (nothing can be done, need to let go of the fact it cannot be changed)  or angry because you don't know what happened to it (something COULD be done, it COULD be changed but isn't and may never be and you want to let go of the lack of control you have over never getting that information or want to let go of your anger at your H's unwillingness to divulge the information or you want to let go of even giving a rat's pattootie about it)

I think knowing where your anger is most coming from would help with letting go. It would in my case. In the above money example, I would be able to let the anger over what cannot be changed go by figuring out what I could do ( could I make extra money myself, or put some money in a special account that no one but me could touch). Letting go of anger at things that do not have to be that way, but I have no control over, is harder. Some people can "let go, let God", just turn it over to their belief system and it works for them.  It's a trust thing. But if you are angry at a person and you don't trust them, can you let the anger go? How can you trust it won't happen again,  you have no idea what steps the other person is or is not taking to make sure it does not happen again. This is why transparency is so important. It's hard to trust when you are left in the dark. And no one has reason to leave another in the dark unless they are hiding something. And if something is being hidden, where's the trust on the hider's side? So if someone does not trust you enough to tell you what they did, mutual trust becomes difficult,  if not impossible. Having no trust can equal anger. Just a thought.

To wrap up my wandering thought process,  might it help to look at letting go of specific anger first, then work your way to overall anger as being the go to emotion, or conversely figuring out why anger is the go to emotion? What does anger get you that sadness, or disappointment or any other negative emotion does NOT get you? If it's just physical release, MBIB'S suggestion of punching bag might be useful (do they still make the blowup clowns you can punch?).  If it's something else, you might want to figure that out.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 11:54:15 AM by OffRoad »
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline Songanddance

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2019, 01:25:15 AM »
Quote
I think knowing where your anger is most coming from would help with letting go.

Exactly. I suggested the same above.  Identify what exactly, specifcally, precisely makes you angry. That can often take time.

General anger is sometimes tiredness and emotional exhaustion and on 4 hours sleep a night - you are a prime candidate for this.   Along with menopause symptoms and some women feel extreme irritation much of the time. 

So can you separate the general anger that is sleep deprived and menopausal frustration from the more specific and anger making issues that you have often talked about - your mother depriving you of your emotional needs, your H betraying you, your H and the money etc..... 

What of those aspects of your life do you know you will have no control over?  OR makes a good point - the money is gone.  You can do no more about what happened to it and, is choosing to remain angry or hurt over it your choice, or does it suggest your need to control tempered with the fact that you had no control upsets you?   

All the suggestions in previous posts are excellent suggestions from a soft toy to phsyical venting to just having a bloody good cry and not being afraid to do so.
Anger is processed in so many ways.
Letting go is a process and we are all different in how we learn to do this.

Are you afraid to let go Barbie?  There is a sense of gentle irony here - by letting go you feel as though you lose control (although in fact you gain so much more control of self) so is the controlling aspect of your nature seeking a controllable method of letting go.  I'm explaining this badly but sometimes when we feel the need to ask it's because we're afraid to do it unless we can do it in a way that works.... that shows a need to control.

Hopefully you can make sense of what I'm saying.....

BD march 2013
Stay at home MLCer
OW for 3.5 years - finishing Autumn 2016
Reconnection started 2017 through 2018.
2019 is the year of Decisions!

Online Treasur

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2019, 01:51:30 AM »
There is a strange wisdom in the idea that what we resist, persists...even if we don't want to resist it exactly. Just like Song says, there is a funny point where we want to let go AND don't want to let go at the same time. Letting our own inner voice and instinct show us a bit more about why we might NOT want to let go is sometimes where the letting go key hides in my experience.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2019, 12:35:49 PM »
Hi Barbie,

I just came across an article that I thought was interesting because it stated that chronic anger can be a form of dissociative episode. I get foggy when I dissociate but the article said that for some people anger is how they disconnect.

I also ran across an article that ties into what Treasur wrote. The article states that chronic anger is often due to buried anger that is being repressed. Since the rightful anger is being repressed you end up with a kind of constant, free flowing anger that's easily activated. That might be worth discussing with your therapist.

Anger Mismanagement
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evil-deeds/200901/anger-mismanagement

Here's the article that addresses rage as a form of dissociation.

WHAT DOES IT ACTUALLY MEAN TO HAVE A DISSOCIATIVE EPISODE?
https://www.wellandgood.com/good-advice/what-does-dissociation-feel-like/

Offline barbiedollTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2019, 07:28:06 PM »
I am overwhelmed with the responses . I have only responded to half of them, but am working thru all your words of wisdom. I appreciate it, I learn from you all and I force myself to look deeper , push harder and find some answers. I will continue to respond but felt I needed to post this part before I write a book.

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There is always the option of pool noodle fights.....🤷‍♀️
Smash houses....(places you can go and smash things) although for this I would need to mentally make each item I smashed a certain thing or issue I was angry about and only then once I had smashed it to bits would I feel better.
Go scream!
Take some kickboxing.
.

Thanks Couragedearheart...The issue I have with this is my anger or rage comes over me in a millisecond and I am so overwhelmed , so unpredictable ...I just want to "leave". Desperately feel "flee". I do not believe I could "manufacture" this feeling , make an appointment at a "smash house" and go there and "be angry". I cannot "make it happen" at all. I would need to have something at the time , that I could even "think" to access and actually go do it. I could not ( for example) go into my garage and smash things to get the anger out ...unless I was triggered and already in that space. I do like the "calm" place and at times I do think about my "safe" place that I use during EMDR.

MBIB.. a "punching bag" would be a good plan . I do know that I need a "physical"  release to deal with my anger. It would be wiser and more mature that smashing anything I can get my hands on. I would need some practise at walking away from a "fight/argument/trigger and actually going to the punching bag.

Offroad…

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Back in the day, I would run or bike to burn off angry energy. But that didn't solve the actual problem that caused the anger and the anger would reappear.
.

Absolutely. It always comes back, always builds up and I have to start all over again. Sometimes I have been sooo explosive that I think .."good, its gone now. ". It is never gone. I know that the day my therapist handed me a bat and I beat a huge huge pillow for 20 minutes and screamed out so much pain...I thought I was done with it. It came back.

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All I could do was distract myself,
.

If I know something is going to truly hit a trigger and I am going to react … (sometimes I know) , I can steer myself away from the reaction. I can stay away from the conversation, until I feel stable and have thought about how I will respond. If I can truly see that I am in dangerous space, I can distract and just leave it. I do not know if becoming avoidant is the answer. ..but I do choose to disengage and go colour or yoga .

Nerissa...thanks soo much for the links and books. I devour this kind of stuff and always believe I will "find" an answer to whatever ails me. I so appreciate it and will be looking at all of it.

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When I first experienced a physical sense of letting it go without using books etc to change my thinking, I felt a sense of ‘lowering’. It was a sense of deep sadness which I had been guarding against with fury.  It was painful but also a relief and felt kind of peaceful.  I think this is surrender.
.

I think it is surrender as well. I know I have such profound and deep sadness. Just reading this ..givesme a huge lump in my throat. I reacted to this because I think it is true. There is such raw sorrow to be felt and I rage it away. This is what I suspect. I am afraid of that pain I think . I just cannot even consider feeling it.

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Apart from anger over infidelity and mlc, I am quite ‘fighty’ about things and I’ve learned I use impatient or irritable ways when I am frustrated in any way, I have a touch of what I call ‘small
Dog syndrome’.  But I do not generally have a problem with anger - it was more, in a day to day sense, learning about more gentle communication. 
.

This is me . I am very "fighty", intolerant, irritable, easily frustrated. I thought it was a side-effect of having so much anger sitting inside. I have spent years trying to learn and present a gentler communication style. I am very blunt, intimidating ( even when I am totally unaware of it) and aggressive. I am angry through and through and feels like my masculine side has dominated my female side. I do struggle with feeling feminine ( if that makes sense) as I am always "on-guard", protective of myself and "ready" for something bad to happen. It does not nurture whatever feminine spirit I might have left inside. A few too many "$h!te-kicks" for me. It hardens a person.

Treasure

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I don't know what it is like to physically experience that kind of anger in the way you describe. But I absolutely know what it is like to physically feel a kind of overwhelming wordless kind of Fear...and my physical description of that would be quite similar. It does feel like me and not me, something not always in my control, something other. And that is rather frightening too.
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I do think some of my anger is rooted in deep fear. In fact I am fairly certain of it. What are we afraid of? I am afraid to love him ever again. I am afraid of the risk you have to take to love someone. I can feel "firetruck you" on the tip of my tongue. I am afraid of alot of things involving relationships now.

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Do you want to 'let it go' or do you want to 'remove it' from your life? I ask bc I think they are a different kind of shift. The first is maybe more like opening your metaphorical hand. The second more like pushing something out with your metaphorical hand perhaps. Do you know which it feels like? Or something else indeed?
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Interesting. I want to experience acceptance …I think. That "bad" things happen, that things go wrong, that people change and that life sometimes hurts. It is the truth for every single human being. Everyone struggles at times . Everyone hurts at times. I am not unique..this has happened to millions of women . ( and men) . I just want to be done with it ..every part of it. Accept that this happens in life, people do bad things sometimes , I am not alone in this and it does not have to be an absolute catastrophy . It does not have to be the end of everything....I sometimes tell myself " get over it!" . I want to accept, process and let go of it . I want to move forward, back into my life. I feel outside of my own life , afraid to just "be" and stop being afraid.  There are far worse situations that people struggle with .

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It sounds as if you feel that a kind of rage, either suppressed or unleashed, has been a companion for a long time including before the events of the last few years? Do you feel it is a PTSD type of thing? If so, research suggests that addressing it physically may help. Acupuncture seems to have a good track record...and building on your Reiki experience that might be worth a try. Trauma really does live in our bodies imho, much more than in our cognitive brain. It is imho almost impossible to 'think' your way out of trauma.
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I have done battle with anger off and on for a long time. Perhaps most of my adult life. I have not experienced this kind of rage ever before in my life. Ever. It is tangled up in feelings of rejection and emotional dissconnection with my mother . My husband BD, abandonment and rejection hit something buried so deep in my inner child that ..it was like an emotional execution indeed. I do believe that others that do not have thier own wounds of abandonment etc …do not utterly want to die when this happens.
That is uncomfortable and even embarrassing to write...but I wanted to die. How sad is that ? I was already deeply wounded somehow and his betrayal of me was life changing in every part of me . My daughter # 4 once said to me .." You are like a cuddly soft poodle disguised as a nasty mean pit bull ". She was correct. I absolutely 100 % lives in our bodies. I can feel immidiate physical reactions to thoughts, words, reminders, triggers and even thinking about what "might" happen. No, you can never fully think your way out of emotional trauma . Maybe the best you can do is find a way to "feel" differently about the emotional scar. I do not know .

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What does anger give you as a gift, Barbie? How does/did it help you survive?
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 Anger is utter and pure energy . I have enough energy to serve a dozen people. I am a workhorse
 Anger makes me feel like people will rarely  Firetruck with me. Even my "aura" is angry
 Anger makes me feel like I do have some power or "say" afterall
 Anger keeps feelings of fear away.  If my anger is bigger than the fear …then I don’t feel it (?)
 Anger feels like the only way to express hurt that I will be understood.
In part, I think that it is the only way I can make him feel or realize the profoundness of the pain he caused. I do not believe he will ever truly grasp the depth of  anguish. Maybe none of them will.
It keeps me from risking that there is a “safe” place/person. I have no risk left.

I honestly believe that I would have been dead without PTSD to hide me for a bit, much as I hate PTSD and resent it's effects on my life.   

This means something to me. ..but I am not sure yet exactly what. Maybe the anger is keeping me safe in some twisted way. But it isn’t really . I will be alone in my life if this persists .

So anything I can do now that pushes it away...that shows me I don't need it now even if I did need it...actions big and small, mantras in my head about being strong and capable, every time I do something and keep the Fear away I start to make new evidence for my amygdala that I don't need the Fear to keep me safe as I did. I say to myself 'see, you don't need it now'....But it is a work in progress and I do fall over sometimes. Which is frustrating but ok as long as I keep my soul's eye on the goal and image - for me - of cutting it out and pushing it away. It used to feel like a cloak but now it feels like a much smaller kind of lump that sits in my midriff if that makes sense?

This. There is great wisdom and meaning in these words . I need to think about it more…If I exchange the word “fear” with “anger”…. It gives me an action plan. Something that might be a place to start.  I am really so tired..and look at the work that still needs doing.

Nerissa…Thanks for the links!. I appreciate it and will be looking at them in depth.









Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline barbiedollTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2019, 09:30:18 PM »
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Perhaps identifying all the causes of your anger - from the specific to the general and writing them all down and then trying to order them in terms of highly stressful to just irritating is a good way to start.
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I do agree that narrowing down the causes or triggers that create such ragefull reactions is a great point. To actually pay attention to the exact thought or feeling and write it down. As you can imagine, it is an extremely overwhelming flooding ( at the time) and I do need to narrow it down. I know I react to any "blame" I think I hear , or might hear or perceive I hear in a stunning way. I honestly feel physical "shock" . Apparrently I frequently hear this when no blame was intended. I would say this has been my number one rage button. Silence is very provoking and scary ...I am not sure "what might be coming".  What is he going to say? What is this silence not saying? Where are the secrets hiding? . It is like expecting BD to happen...again. Horrible horrible anxiety , until I am so angry. I know it is hypervigilance as part of PTSD. Those are just words or explanation...its a special kind of hell to live in.  Feeling "not heard " or not validated ...another trigger . I do need to focus on the underlying emotions...

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Your anger sounds like a trauma related stress response. When feeling stressed, threatened or unsafe, Treasur feels fear, I dissociate (freeze), it sounds like you feel anger. Three different types of stress responses but they all serve the same purpose.
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I believe this is absolutely correct. I agree with it being a trauma related response without question. Different people ..different reactions. It is all terribly damaging and painful. I just want to be "normal" again, manage my emotions and find ways to be less reactive.

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The anger makes you feel safe. It protects you. What can you do to reduce the stress you're experiencing so you don't need the anger? What can you do to feel safe without the anger?

Yes. I understand it makes me feel safe. Its a defense mechanism that I need to be safe. What can I do to feel safe?  I do not know. I am not sure I ever even want to feel "safe". How would I believe it? Safe is an elusion. No one is truly safe with another person. Safe has something to do with an internal ability to trust yourself …that no matter what happens, or what another person does or how another person behaves...I will be OK.  Inside of me . That is how I see it.

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Reduce the stress in your life and it could reduce the anger that you feel. Trust others to help you and it could increase your feeling of safety and reduce the anger that you feel.
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I do need to commit to physical ways to tire myself, expel some energy etc. Walking and hiking need to become a priority or going for a swim , yoga etc. I am always troubled internally and distracted from a commitment to self care . I need to get serious about my life. I just cannot get propelled in that direction. I agree without question..it would help me. I trust my sister always has good intentions for me . Not sure why I am unmotivated to do what I know would benefit me.

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What can you do to you find that feeling of being safe and protected?
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I think its about believing in ME. Be safe within me, trust me . Not sure just yet how to fully get there ..and stay there .  I think there is a message in this clip...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1flG1AaMMZM

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Then I wondered whether Barbie might feel the same way about giving up her anger.
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I have freely admitted that there are times I do not even try to calm down.. I have resisted calming down. I feel justified at times and there is no desire to stop. Who am I without this anger ?  I do not know anymore. Been a very long time.

I continue to respond and get all "thinky".  Thanks for all the support and input. There are answers in here somewhere .

Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline Couragedearheart

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2019, 01:56:59 AM »
Barbie,

I’ll never feel safe again......was the exact feeling, that was how having my abandonment wound triggered felt.
And I wanted to lash out, to fight, to protect myself. To prove to myself and the world that I was strong, I don’t feel strong, I feel lost, rudderless, scared. 
I try to be intimidating enough that people are scared to hurt me.

That’s definitely the anger stress response, and you are right, I just triggered like you...and I’m at blazing inferno faster than you can snap your fingers.

Maybe that sort of anger is not about the emotion at all, but about fixing the abandonment wound.
Some of my fury is about the unjustness of it all, but then that wasn’t cause by H, that was caused by a world that hurt Little Courage in profound ways, taught her to look for hurt, and that people were doing things to hurt her.

For that I’m doing EMDR, it’s about healing my core wounds and rewriting those messages.

I’m glad you started this thread. It’s probably one of the most educational threads on here.
I needed this.
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online Treasur

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2019, 02:24:44 AM »
I agree with ch and I hope you can see that you are not the only one who feels how you do bc of the responses here.

It may be a thing to feel your way through rather than think your way through if that makes sense, barbie.

My sense from what you have shared...and you are remarkably courageous in your honesty...is that the anger gives you something really useful even if you also hate feeling in the grip of it. Actually it sound more like rage than anger.

This thread has made me consider what the Frozen Fear gave me. I feel looking back that the world felt SO unsafe and SO alien and I was so exhausted by failing over and over again to change it that my little inner lizard brain (I call her Lucy) just lay down in a cave to die metaphorically. I honestly felt I could not survive one more punch. My Fear gave me the gift of hiding somewhere safe for long enough to either die or outlast the storm. Never experienced anything like it before in my life, hated how it felt, judged myself as a pathetic feeble creature all the way through it....but it DID get me out of the storm and it DID keep me alive long enough for the storm to move on. So it was useful...and then it stopped being so useful once the storm in reality had passed bc it was a brain habit then not a survival need if that makes sense? It was/is  time to say thank you to Lucy the Lizard and tell her she could stand down now bc she had done her job.

I don't know you as well as others here do, so I might be quite wrong in my perspective...but I remember you saying that both you and your h had seen him as the safe 'gatekeeper' for your family in the past? I wonder if - entirely understandably - in a funny way ( as in strange rather than ha ha) a lot of your struggle has been about how to turn him back into that or feel that about him. Almost as if focusing on what he did and can't do was a distraction from being your own 'gatekeeper' perhaps? I am so glad that you can trust your sister. Idk if you see her as part of the 'gatekeeoing' team? But it sounds as if your friend was part of that team and losing him understandably had a big impact on you.

Does your 'gatekeeper' feel stronger if she is angry and armed to the teeth to protect you?
Was that how your h used to be as a 'gatekeeper' before? Or different? Or indeed was he the first line of defence and you were always in reality the seriously armed second line of defence?
And what are you gatekeeping now? What's inside your city walls now and outside? Or who?

My sense is that you have reached a shifting point for yourself which will be a fruitful and liberating one, barbie. And your honesty is helping a lot of the rest of us reshape our own gates and gatekeepers too.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 02:26:19 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Velika

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2019, 08:53:34 AM »
I am reading this thread and wow Terra such a great response, and so many others. So wise and insightful.

Barbie, I think it may help you to consider that there is a little magic in this process. What happened is awful, but what can happen afterwords can be truly amazing. I have reached the point where I really believe that anyone who is given something to overcome has given a deep gift from life.

Terra is right to be mindful of how healers make you feel. Try to experience different types of healing but also different healers, to see what and who you respond to. It isn’t just the technique but the energy of the person, and I think a true healer is also someone who has had to heal, and therefore has the wisdom to guide you out of it.

I also really recommend, if you can do it, to take a pilgrimage somewhere by yourself or without your husband. Traveling to spiritual places is a human behavior throughout the ages, and there is a reason for this. Just like your body is affected by reiki, it can be transformed by moving through space.

Also, you don’t have to stay with your husband. You really don’t. You can be a loving person and love him and also love and honor yourself. If it feels this bad, then maybe it’s something you could consider. I can see now that being with the wrong person is far worse than being alone. Maybe you will come to the conclusion that no, you want to stay together, but rally give yourself permission to feel into this in new ways.

Try to take comfort in the fact that this is going on everywhere, all over the world. Your H behavior was in no way a reflection of you but a strange phenomenon of our time that we don’t yet have the perspective to understand.

Take good care of yourself, eat a clean diet, find a healer who will help you feel supported but also guide you when you need it. Allow yourself to see that negative experience can open the door to strength and positive change.

Big hugs. 💛

PS modifying to add, there is real power and honesty in anger. Don’t see it as something to overcome necessarily but as a very, very strong message from your body, heart, and spirit. The reason it feels so powerful is that it has something to say. Find that wisdom in your anger  to help you heal.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 09:02:12 AM by Velika »

Offline barbiedollTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2019, 05:15:46 PM »
 I continue to appreciate all the responses to this thread . It is so valuable to me. I continue to respond and read...

So perhaps looking at what specifically about each situation had made you angry may help you begin the process of understanding how you could begin to reduce your anger. 

For example - your mother's treatment of you has been IMHO  shocking but you know that her withholding affection or support hasn't changed since your childhood.
So what is it exactly about her withholding affection and support that makes you angry?
Is it out of frustration because you have tried so many times to get her to understand why you need her support? 
In essence is she likely to change? 
Do you know deep down inside of you that this is banging head on brick wall time with her?
Can you recognise that you are feeling frustrated at feeling frustrated with her?


My mother was born in a small coal mining village and was 1 of 16 children . She was somewhere in the middle. The goal of families was to simply survive. She talks of times she went to school and there was a new baby in the crib and when she came home the baby was gone. There was no talk period. The baby must have died. She says this happened at the very least twice. She stopped school in grade 8 to work in a shoe factory. There was no way that my mother had the attention, affection or was modelled anything emotional or tender. It just was not available to her. She is tough, hard working and has an extreme longing to be outdoors …like she grew up. She is utterly void of affection, emotional support or conversation and really she is all about “get on with it “. I understand this more in the recent years than I was ever before . As my therapist says “she cannot give what she does not have”. I rarely “trigger” over anything about my mother anymore so I hope this means it has been dealt with and resolved. I do know I am far more susceptible to emotional reactions when I NEED something from her. I needed support and just some acknowledgment of hurt after my friend died. My mother ? Not available whatsoever. It hurt but I atleast knew not to pursue this .

Is she the recipient of a letter or several (which you won't send) but you will write and rewrite and condense into one or two sentences?  These are just examples of beginning the process of letting go.

I did start a letter with the help of my therapist . I have yet to finish it as I simply no longer felt the extreme rejection or invalidation from her . It just seemed to fizzle. I do still intend to finish the letter and burn it.

Your anger sounds like a trauma related stress response. When feeling stressed, threatened or unsafe, Treasur feels fear, I dissociate (freeze), it sounds like you feel anger. Three different types of stress responses but they all serve the same purpose.

I have not read this before “ trauma related stress response” . We do react differently when under stress but having suffered a “trauma” makes it all even more intense and perhaps far more difficult to resolve. I do believe my husband may “ freeze”  as he just has no response at times …to anything. And that just enrages me. The therapist says he “floods” and freezes as his stress response . Seems to set up pursuer/avoidance cycle. I will react with anger to any extreme emotion. I do know …most of it is fear under all of it.

You might find that your loved ones want to help you, they just don't know what to do or how to do it. Start with little things first and, as you learn who you can trust to help you, work up to the bigger things with them.

I believe many members of my family are so troubled by my hurt, anger and tears… they really try to avoid me becoming “emotional” . It has been hard on those around a traumatized family member. They just want to “not poke the bear” and keep things superficial. That’s what I have observed. I have a good support in my sister …but the hole left by my friend , since his death , is just indescribable. He was my PTSD support person trained by the hospital and he meant everything to me . He knew my entire story, knew me … his loss has had me stumble emotionally ..again.

What can you do to you find that feeling of being safe and protected?


I believe I never will again. Not to be overly dramatic , not victim-ish or a big ole coward. Just the nasty reality for me . It was that deep. I do not think I am the only one who feels this way. It will never be him again…if only he knew what he has lost. He will never have that gift from me. It is about learning providing that for myself…no matter what he ever does. I am still learning how.

people at large are not very willing to or competent at handling or witnessing another person’s vulnerability and deep sorrow.

This has been my experience ..even with family . I guess it may be true for me as well. It is hard
to be with someone in deep sorrow. Sad really.

The main thing is that the body does want to live and thrive and be cared for and
listened to. That can be done in touch and in silence. In my own state of stress or trauma, what I
usually most need is the safety to let down my guard and just watch the thoughts as they spring
forward and away. Your mileage may vary but I’ve found the massage table or mat to be an
almost holy place for that quiet review and, I want to say, quantifiable release.


Interesting. I have started and quit , then started and quit more massage , yoga , meditation classes than anyone I know. I do not know why I fail to stick to things. Another thing to work on . ugh. I need to truly commit to self care again and again . Thanks for your input Terra.

Because we do move through life sort of accidentally or haplessly wearing the labels that other people put on us, and you might find that when you are all to yourself, just you and free of other people’s perceptions, maybe in your deepest heart you are not a rageful person at all, and never actually were. It’s Right and reasonable for you to be angry and upset and hurt and scared about everything you’ve been through and are still going through and coping with. But maybe underneath all of that, you are truly a beautiful, loving, gentle, and lovely woman, who is simply in a terrible season and surrounded by loved and important people who are just not listening or being good to you.

I just love this !!. I really do. Lots to think about and consider in these words . I have been referred as “  a gentle sensitive poodle in disguise as a rabid pitbull”. There is some truth in that . My outside is not in harmony with who I am inside …or who I could be .

We need time for healing, as much as we would if these injuries were fully physical in form. So if you think a kind of quarantine is called for, just know that you do have a right to employ it. Period.


I long for quarantine more than anything else . It’s a good word. I have not done that for practical reasons …who I need to be
for so many other people . I am happiest alone but need to be careful not to isolate or become a recluse. There is a fine line there somewhere and I need to be aware of that . I am rather looking forward to the winter, to hibernate and be able to spend more time in selfcare etc. I do have a right to this and I know I need it. 


Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

Offline Songanddance

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Re: "Letting Go Of Stuff "
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2019, 01:10:20 AM »
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So perhaps looking at what specifically about each situation had made you angry may help you begin the process of understanding how you could begin to reduce your anger.

Thanks Barbie for your comprehensive response.  What I was aiming at in using your mother as an example was not for you to just consider your mother but to apply those questions to lots of trigger with your H and you throughout your life. 
For example the money that H seemed to have squirrelled away somewhere caused you great anger.

So I've substituted the questions with different focus words ie "your mother" is now replaced with your H or money and you can apply those questions to any subject matter.

your H's MLC treatment of you in the money situation has been shocking but you know that him withholding information has made you angry
So what is it exactly about him withholding information that makes you angry?
Is it out of frustration because you have tried so many times to get him to understand why you need him to tell you honestly?
In essence is this likely to change?
Do you know deep down inside of you that this is banging head on brick wall time with him/it?
Can you recognise that you are feeling frustrated at feeling frustrated with him/it


They are questions to break down any form of trigger and once you can specify that you can then begin to address your feelings in a whole host of ways.  Does your therapist use NLP techniques at all?  I found them sooo helpful and use them even now when I recognise the feelings even though the trigger or source might be different.
BD march 2013
Stay at home MLCer
OW for 3.5 years - finishing Autumn 2016
Reconnection started 2017 through 2018.
2019 is the year of Decisions!

 

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