[Mortesbride]

Yes getting caught up in labels may not be useful to some, but honestly if the signs point to covert narcissism, then hanging onto this MLC hope that one day the MLCer will recover and be an empathic loving person again after cheating and devaluing the LBS seems counterproductive to healing.

Especially when dealing with covert narcissist who see people as objects, easily disposable and replaceable. A covert narc cannot be alone so if things don’t work out with their affair partner, they do enjoy having the LBS as backup option. Personally, I value myself more than being the backup option to someone who cheated on me, with no remorse and gaslighted me into thinking it was my fault. I think part of an LBS growth and healing is to maybe reconcile the fact that the MLC personality might reveal core personality defects that are a part of the MLCer.

I do think some MLCers only feel slight remorse when the LBS moves on, or maybe it is just the loss of supply they thought would always be waiting for them.

Not going to lie...

I have had a lot of these exact same thoughts.

2 years ago I was looking for some sort of answer for what was wrong with him. I was convinced he was a covert Narc, but then came across this website. And look.. maybe he is a MLCER! Maybe if I am strong enough, and wait long enough..he will magically go back to the person he was before and we would be in love again! 

It took a lot of thinking time, distance, smashing of the rose coloured glasses, and a real assessment of what I thought I knew.

For some people here I do believe their partners are in a crisis and will come out... For some I think that it is a bit more complicated than that. Maybe sometimes we are just a little afraid to admit that to ourselves? I know I was.

[New Day Rising]

Yes, I was very afraid to admit to myself the reality of my situation with my ex and it took me some time to get there. I also think that some people's partners are in crisis and will come out of it. I think my ex partner has come out of his current crisis and has moved on. I do believe it will happen again though. There'll be another crisis along the way.

I do think in some instances you need a label. For me, if my ex was Bi-polar, it means that there's a chance my kids could develop this. I see elements of my son in the things that my ex used to say or do and I worry for him. As it turns out, the term was banded about, some 8 years ago, but as my ex stopped seeing the psychiatrist it was never confirmed. I also hear varying stories about whether it is hereditary. My counsellor tells me that it isn't hereditary. Ultimately though, I have put it to the back of my mind.

I use tactics here to help me deal with my ex as we have kids, but if we didn't he would be a complete vanisher and I wouldn't be even thinking about terms for what he is as he'd be out of my life completely. I do sometimes really wish this was the case.

I have to work on myself to understand why I was attracted to someone like my ex. I was an enabler to his behaviour and am definitely an empath. We had similar Foo issues with our family background and it manifested in us in different ways.

I just hope I pick a little more wisely for the partner in my next relationship.

[Songanddance]

Labels labels labels... If I were to label my MLCer it would be the following;

 Depressed, covert narcissist, avoidant attacher, elements of BPD and FOO issue holder oh and MLCer  ex high replayer  stuck inbetween limbo and reconnection..... the list is endless.

So I wonder why I am standing?  My children wonder why I am standing.  I have said it many times I don't think my H will ever truly acknowedge or hold himself accountable for his actions (he did indeed tick all the boxes at the top of this thread)
So reading all this again has really made me think even deeper about what healing I need to do because in "normal" life I would probably never allow this kind of person to be such a close and deep part of my life.

Thanks - really helpful.

[Nerissa]

Labels labels labels... If I were to label my MLCer it would be the following;

 Depressed, covert narcissist, avoidant attacher, elements of BPD and FOO issue holder oh and MLCer  ex high replayer  stuck inbetween limbo and reconnection..... the list is endless.

So I wonder why I am standing?  My children wonder why I am standing.  I have said it many times I don't think my H will ever truly acknowedge or hold himself accountable for his actions (he did indeed tick all the boxes at the top of this thread)
So reading all this again has really made me think even deeper about what healing I need to do because in "normal" life I would probably never allow this kind of person to be such a close and deep part of my life.

Thanks - really helpful.

Yes I understand this feeling.  Labels help us feel in control - that this may be explained and maybe fixed.  They bring some comfort of a sort.

The problem I feel, as song suggests, is that it takes the focus from us.  Not just the focus of GAL, but the deep inner exploration which begins to explain why we are like we are - why we put up with unacceptable behaviour; why we ignored intuition; what is frightening us and why?  What is our behaviour saying about us.

The other, which has been referred to is that no one fits neatly inside a label - we are all, mlc spouses too - Much more than that.  And if we or they do display unhealthy tendencies which might look like some kind of pd....well the reality is that we all move in and out of unhealthy states throughout our lives and none of us likes to be defined by our unhealthy behaviours.

[Songanddance]

well the reality is that we all move in and out of unhealthy states throughout our lives and none of us likes to be defined by our unhealthy behaviours.

And that is the dilemma - the more we label behaviours the more we discover that at almost every point of our life we may have been in one of the many  behavioural states even fleetingly.

I don't think we can ever be whole and completely emotionally, mentally healthy because we are social beings and social beings are imperfect but today's society seeks the perfect and that is almost impossible to achieve - well it is for me. 
The moment we are cared for as babies we start down specific paths of behaviour and expectations - it is only when we are faced with challenges such as MLC we begin to recognise, accept and work on our perceived flaws.

"Well-Being" in schools is about mental health and I for one am glad to see that UK schools are beginning to really address this. But what is often encouraged at all other times is a specific code of behaviour and not an inner search of one's own feelings and behaviours.  So as long as you fit the norm on a day to day basis,  then all kinds of covert narcissism/depression/anger etc are subtly ignored and passed on.....

[Nerissa]

"Well-Being" in schools is about mental health and I for one am glad to see that UK schools are beginning to really address this. But what is often encouraged at all other times is a specific code of behaviour and not an inner search of one's own feelings and behaviours.  So as long as you fit the norm on a day to day basis,  then all kinds of covert narcissism/depression/anger etc are subtly ignored and passed on.....


Indeed - and I know you were a UK teacher so you might feel encouraged to learn (maybe you’ve heard) that a 2017 govt white paper accepted the recommendations from the Anna Freud Centre associated with UCL and are training school welfare therapists at universities and attaching them to specific schools. The training started this sept.  At last some acknowledgement of the cost of mental health problems.

[Songanddance]

"Well-Being" in schools is about mental health and I for one am glad to see that UK schools are beginning to really address this. But what is often encouraged at all other times is a specific code of behaviour and not an inner search of one's own feelings and behaviours.  So as long as you fit the norm on a day to day basis,  then all kinds of covert narcissism/depression/anger etc are subtly ignored and passed on.....


Indeed - and I know you were a UK teacher so you might feel encouraged to learn (maybe you’ve heard) that a 2017 govt white paper accepted the recommendations from the Anna Freud Centre associated with UCL and are training school welfare therapists at universities and attaching them to specific schools. The training started this sept.  At last some acknowledgement of the cost of mental health problems. 

And this is why I am re-training as a well-being life coach, counsellor and NLP practitioner.

[SteelSpine]

Yes I understand this feeling.  Labels help us feel in control - that this may be explained and maybe fixed.  They bring some comfort of a sort.

The problem I feel, as song suggests, is that it takes the focus from us.  Not just the focus of GAL, but the deep inner exploration which begins to explain why we are like we are - why we put up with unacceptable behaviour; why we ignored intuition; what is frightening us and why?  What is our behaviour saying about us.

I am not sure that I agree with this.

Coming to the conclusion that there were aspects of my h's personality which were deep and entrenched, and that this was not a fixable, temporary crisis, brought no comfort at all. Quite the opposite.

Instead of taking the focus away from myself, it forced me to face up to the aspects of my own personality that had allowed myself to turn a blind eye to reality.

This process is some of the most difficult work of this entire experience, and the most beneficial.

It leaves the present situation with my h as sort of of beside the point.

[Not Applicable]

The partner begins the relationship with love bombing the person of interest and they imitate the interests of the person they are interested in. I wonder if many of us on this forum had relationships that began this way? I see the MLCer love bombs their new partner, adapting to whatever her interests are.

They suppress their negative emotions because they don't know how to deal with them, when a conflict arises in the relationship they shut down because an MLCer cannot accept their is something wrong with them. My MLCer was always this way from the beginning. If everything was going good, it was great but the moment I wanted to discuss somethign that was bothering me, MLCer could not handle the discussion.

What you describe here actually sounds more like a few LBSes who seem to think they can manipulate their spouses out of their MLC by engaging in such tactics. 

[Songanddance]

The partner begins the relationship with love bombing the person of interest and they imitate the interests of the person they are interested in. I wonder if many of us on this forum had relationships that began this way? I see the MLCer love bombs their new partner, adapting to whatever her interests are.

They suppress their negative emotions because they don't know how to deal with them, when a conflict arises in the relationship they shut down because an MLCer cannot accept their is something wrong with them. My MLCer was always this way from the beginning. If everything was going good, it was great but the moment I wanted to discuss somethign that was bothering me, MLCer could not handle the discussion.

What you describe here actually sounds more like a few LBSes who seem to think they can manipulate their spouses out of their MLC by engaging in such tactics. 

NYM - I think you may have misunderstood the context here.  I think Strong faith was not talking about MLC behaviour from the current  MLCer but when as pre MLC partner; ie the partner/husband's/wife's behaviourbefore MLC.  A past trend of behaviour.  So therefore your response to suggest that this is manipulative tactics is possibly misplaced.