Author Topic: My Story The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘  (Read 884 times)

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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My Story The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« on: October 02, 2019, 12:51:09 PM »
Me 36
H 36
S14
EA?PA? Discovered 05/31/19
BD 05/31/19
Clinging Boomerang? Wallower? 🤷‍♀️ Time will tell.

🎉Me and H are BOTH chaos kids!!!! Hurray! 2 for the price of one MLC.🎉

Our family includes a large Elephant named “FOO Issues”
The elephant has begun to outgrow the home, H is determined to ignore it, I’ve noticed the plaster is cracking and the walls aren’t looking quite so sturdy.  H says don’t worry, it will be fine....🤦‍♀️

Can someone link my previous thread? Thank you! 😘

Previous thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11034.0
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 01:11:44 PM by Thunder »
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online Treasur

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2019, 12:53:24 PM »
Great title! Following along.... :)
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Nerissa

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2019, 01:00:20 PM »
Does this story reflect your elephant story Coursge?  It does mine a little I think.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-QtOWpV8d_0

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2019, 01:16:31 PM »
I think your previous thread was locked while I was trying to reply to it so I'll post my response here.

Courage,

What you're doing would work for most people. Your inner child consists of all of the things you learned when you were little. Working with your inner child is a lot like working with an actual child. Children tend to believe what you tell them, which is an application of the self-fulfilling prophecy.

Tell a child he's a bad boy often enough and he'll believe it. Tell him he's a smart boy often enough and that's what he'll believe. But when the child develops the belief that he's a bad boy as a result of being traumatized, telling the child that he's a good boy isn't going to work because the belief that he's a bad boy is too deeply held. The trauma has to be processed before the belief can be changed.

You shouldn't feel badly about the fact that the messages you're telling yourself aren't sinking in. The beliefs that Little Courage holds have very deep roots, even if she wasn't traumatized. Your therapist should be able to help you get in touch with Little Courage so that you can help Little Courage learn new and more accurate beliefs about herself.

I have learned that when I experience thoughts that don't seem like me, what's happening is that I'm hearing from one of my parts. Each of my parts has its own characteristics so I'm starting to be able to tell which part I'm hearing from. Thoughts coming from my toddler part are very different from thoughts coming from my 6 year old female part.

The same is true of your inner child. When you know something but you feel something different, you're probably hearing from your inner child. For example, Courage knows that love isn't earned but Little Courage was taught that love and respect have to be earned. Little Courage heard that message over and over again for a long time and not only heard it but had it demonstrated. It's going to take a lot of work to convince Little Courage that love and respect don't have to be earned. She's going to be pretty skeptical.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2019, 01:48:04 PM »
Treasur,
Welcome to my new thread, make yourself cozy.

Nerissa,

I’m not sure why he’s calling our elephant a dragon in that book. But yes....that’s exactly like our pet elephant. I am delighted you shared that.

MBIB,

This oddly makes an enormous amount of sense to me. And yes, the majority of what little courage learned was through trauma, and I do notice that the part of me that has those beliefs if I write them out they are significantly more juvenile in language than me. Perhaps I have parts too.
I know there are things that I experienced like a month of solitary confinement that I have no access too or memories of...but I know it happened and my siblings confirm it.

I do think I’ll continue the practice of talking to little courage...it helps me to grieve some things, it softens me, when I verbalize those things sometimes I realize it’s the first time I have ever heard someone talk to me that way.

I know there’s lots to heal. I have soul wounds.
I distinctly remember my mother saying that I was stubborn and you had to break a child’s spirit to break the stubbornness......now it occurs to me that little courage in some ways has always refused to have her spirit completely broken.

A little bent perhaps, but not broken. 😊
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2019, 02:39:48 PM »
I do think I’ll continue the practice of talking to little courage...it helps me to grieve some things, it softens me, when I verbalize those things sometimes I realize it’s the first time I have ever heard someone talk to me that way.

I think this is a great idea! I suspect Little Courage will appreciate it. It's good that you can say those things to her. Little MBIB never heard those things either and I couldn't say them to him because I didn't like him very much. I'm better now but I'm afraid that I still may like Little Girl MBIB better than I like Little Boy MBIB. (The first clue that I might have a dissociative disorder came when we were doing inner child work and I discovered that my inner child has a twin sister. It was a bit of a shock.)

I distinctly remember my mother saying that I was stubborn and you had to break a child’s spirit to break the stubbornness......now it occurs to me that little courage in some ways has always refused to have her spirit completely broken.


That's awful! Consider me horrified! I'm happy to hear that your mother wasn't successful.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2019, 03:49:42 AM »
I finally figured out what I’m mad about.
I’m pissed that H gets his half of the marriage....and maybe more since I’ve been working on things....and I get nothing. No conversation, no solutions, not even the satisfaction of a good fight to air things out, no affection, no sex, heck I even sleep by myself, and yet....based on our current schedule he has arranged our lives in a way that the only thing on his to do list is eat, sh!t, sleep and work.

Meanwhile......I get to work full time, be a single parent, do all the shopping and cleaning and cooking and transportation.....which I would do anyway if he weren’t here.....but then at least I wouldn’t have the expectation of anything else.

So is the expectation wrong. I mean currently I can’t count on him for anything....so I lower my expectations based on what’s happening now....or do I say....no, this is the expectation for a husband...and as long as you are one...this is what I’m expecting from you.

I miss the old H, he was cuddly and affectionate, he called me his bride for 11 years, he was excited to do stuff together. He was attentive and kind. He was flirty, and made me feel attractive and wanted. He was goofy and silly, we would put on music and dance around the house, he loved family time.

There is a huge void of affection in my life. I feel more lonely than I’ve ever felt before. No I don’t want to talk to the people I interact with about it. They want to throw out internet quotes and judgements.

That’s not the same thing, as understanding, gentleness, consideration, and thoughtful balanced responses......our society as a whole is entirely unequipped to talk about tough things. We never really learn to sit with heartbreak....and to learn what it has to teach us.

We just try to fill the void with various other things that aren’t quite the same instead of heal the wounds. Every morsel of advice in my regular world seem trite and shallow and flippant.
So I don’t really want to talk about it with any of these people.
I’m not lonely.....I am alone.
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2019, 08:20:02 AM »
Caroline-I think you just hit the nail on the head.  They get the freedom from responsibility and obligations.  We get an overload of it. 

My husband has an ow and moved out.  His only responsibility is to work and see ow.  He is not lonely, he has someone.  Where as I am faithful to the marriage(read lonely), with all of the worries and responsibility piled high on my shoulders.  To me it feels like you have to be a saint to take them back after this, or at least selfless.  I’m currently neither so I have some major work to do;)
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 15 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2019, 08:40:55 AM »
Joy,

I also think....if it were a regular everyday divorce.....there would be no “coddling”, we would expect them to pull their weight with the chore and kids and scheduling and everything.

This is just a complete checkout in every area of life....without physically checking out.

Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2019, 10:04:19 AM »
Yes, mine absolutely does not pull his weight.  He has not in three years.  The first two years were I guess phase 1 and 2 of his MLC.  Now we are a year into phase 3.  His kids are becoming more and more done with him.  It’s all so selfish and I do get they are struggling, still selfishness is a choice.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 15 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2019, 02:32:45 AM »
I was so absolutely furious with rage for the past 48 hours. Just building and building.
I need talk and physical affection, the 2 things that H doesn’t do at all if he’s stressed. When I finally discovered that I was angry...and why I was angry...I wasn’t even furious....just more like “oh! That makes sense....of course that’s the source of my anger.”

Remember that H is constantly asking about my counseling, I mentioned in passing while talking about the counseling session that I finally figured out why I was mad at him.
My plan had been to talk about it and then hand him off all the chores that I was doing for him.

Nope.

That has led to 2 straight days of me being totally avoided, no contact, complete shutout and him moving to the downstairs bedroom.

Though my counseling session was 50 minutes of picking apart the “not wanted/not good enough” shame message and 5 minutes of discussing my anger and what I want to do about it.....he has decided that I’m enraged at him and that he must sequester himself to the safety of the downstairs bedroom and cut all lines of communication. Nothing I say can convince him otherwise. 🤷‍♀️

Excellent, I was mildly angry earlier....but let’s trigger our abandonment wounds as well so this can really be a party.
🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

By the end of 48 hours I was so mad I could have rationalized driving my car through the house quite easily.
I was so mad, I didn’t notice he cleaned the room, or sorted the laundry. His love language is apparently acts of service....I didn’t know....apparently he knew that....and didn’t mention it.

At 4 am this morning I woke up, and it occurred to me that he WAS trying to show me love...I just didn’t see it through my hurt.

I went down and apologized, we talked about it, and hugged. I said that when I focused on my hurt I often hurt him unintentionally and I’m sorry I did that. (The Same applies to him)
After a nice 30 minute conversation H decided things were going a little too well....so he proceeded to pick apart a sentence...and lecture me for it.....I left.
Oh well I suppose it was nice while it lasted. All 30 minutes of it. 🤷‍♀️

2 steps forward, one step back.

If I had endless money I would be doing IC twice a week right now.

Anywho.....on to the important stuff s14.....is S15 today!🎉  So we will be celebrating that.
Oh and did I mention my mortgage got approved! 🎉 I can now officially start looking for a house!

Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2019, 08:22:28 AM »
The only thing H knows for certain is that he wants this fancy pants promotion. It’s the thing H has been chasing for years. It’s supposed to happen in Jan.

I don’t know if that’s what I actually want. So many hours, days, holidays, anniversaries and funerals and family time has been sacrificed on the alter of chasing the next title, the next pay raise, the ephemeral better schedule.

I’m just not sure it’s the life I want. I want real, honest, integrity, I want what I do to matter. I don’t want to be a stepford show wife, who’s job is too keep up appearances and make other men jealous.
In an industry where the motto seems to be “out with the old in with the new”, that also translates to wives as well.

Maybe that’s the basic underlying problem in all of this...maybe H just wants a superficial life....that’s fine...he can pursue whatever sort of life he wants.  Superficial feels like suffocating to me.  I can’t do it well, I never could.  It always made me too much. To passionate about a topic, to open, to honest, not guarded enough, not fitting in.
If there’s a place that is painful for you to fit into....perhaps you are not meant to fit there.

I don’t care about money, no matter how much you have it’s never enough, and someone else always has more.  I don’t care about titles, if that’s all you want that will be all you get.

Now it makes me wonder, if he gets this job, and we are together can I still be me in that world. How much of me will it demand. How much will I have to contort to fit into that world....and is that what I want anymore?

Can I be me? Or is that just another thing to be sacrificed on the alter of the “next big thing.”

Yes, I said this aloud in my musings in front of H. To be honest...his reply shocked me. H said you didn’t sacrifice for the job....you sacrificed for me, for our family.

I don’t have any answers. I’m not really willing to sacrifice being me anymore.
I’m done trying to change enough to be appropriate, I’m done trying to be someone else’s version of a fillintheblanks wife, I’m done feeling uncomfortable in my own skin, or awkward all the time.

Will I be any less if H chooses a job over me....no.

Maybe it’s one of the things that matters, maybe it isn’t. I don’t know yet. The question just lingers out there in the void. 
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2019, 07:24:29 PM »
Uhmmmmmm okay......

So tonight H  called to talk about a dinner I went out to with my family. I was talking about being myself or more myself than usual....the part I typically try to tamp down....and how my family was a bit shocked....not unpleasant more amused.

H said he noticed I was different but he wanted to know why. I explained I was tired of trying to fit in, I was just going to be me, how people felt about it was their feelings and not my problem. H asked if I was worried what people would think?

I reminded him of a couple we know....wife is an absolute firecrackers husband would blend in with wall paper. But you remember them because of her and you think more of him if he’s man enough for to be interested in him.

Then I talked about this couple we met at Trivia Night (we tried trivia for the first time) this couple was hardcore excited about trivia, they were so passionate about it it was infectious and you enjoyed just watching them enjoy themselves....it was just pure happiness and you couldn’t help but feel the joy.

I said I was going to be myself as well, if people thought I was to passionate about the things I care about they were free to walk away. But as I’m not rude offensive or inappropriate....I was going to happily talk about books I read, black holes, heart pumps, and things that capture my interest.

H said he had to go.

Called back 10 minutes later and said....”do you think it’s possible I’ve been just putting all my anxiety on you? And correctly you because I’m anxious? Because I give you a lecture after every time we go to a company function about how you got to excited about something you were taking about or how you weren’t perfect enough.”

Me: 😳😳😳
“Uhm Yes.
The book calls it outer critic, if you turn off outer critic inner critic is going to get really loud.
But I do it too....that’s one of the areas I am working on myself”

I told him the book said it was because critic (inner and outer) had so many impossible rules that were set by bad parenting telling us that we had to be perfect to be loved....it shamed us for everything....more shame than a person could take...so we try and offload some of that shame on other people....when what we have to learn to do....is fight the critic and tell him he’s wrong.

You could have knocked me over with a feather....

Oh and speaking of a bit of healthy shaming,we got some heavenly 2x4’s last night, my fortune cookie said  “Do not be overly judgmental of your loved one’s intentions or actions.”


Don’t worry God didn’t leave out H either, his fortune cookie said “Don’t mistake temptation for opportunity.”

🤣😂🤣😂

Message received.



« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 07:59:31 PM by Couragedearheart »
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2019, 09:05:39 PM »
I'm glad you're starting to feel comfortable about being yourself regardless of what other people think. You sound like a very interesting person and I suspect that's also what other people will think.

Offline AlvinTheMaker

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2019, 05:28:24 AM »
I told him the book said it was because critic (inner and outer) had so many impossible rules that were set by bad parenting telling us that we had to be perfect to be loved....it shamed us for everything....more shame than a person could take...so we try and offload some of that shame on other people....when what we have to learn to do....is fight the critic and tell him he’s wrong.

You could have knocked me over with a feather....


I've been reading the Freudian theory (id, superego, ego) and then mixing it to REBT (challenging my beliefs = challenging my superego)... And now you writing about inner/outer critic and challenging (fighting) it...   IMHO all are the same. How to challenge your "perspective", how to reframe the situation in way that you get a healthy negative reaction instead of unhealthy negative reaction (worry instead of anxiety etc)...  Kind of fun (and confusing) how each school of psychology has had the need to come up with unique name for somewhat of the same thing  (likely there are some nyances in there, but to me it just seems childish need to be different, LOL). 

Once you learn to challenge your superego/beliefs/critic ... You are getting over a lot of the hard stuff.  Essentially all roads seem to lead to Rome regardless of which route you go, LOL.

Keep going, CH. Keep going.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 05:29:39 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
Me: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
Kids (at time of BD): G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

*** Every person on the planet is like you - a human being, most likely doing the best they can. Some are just more in control of themself than others ***
*** There are things you control and things you can't control, but what you can control is your attitude towards things you can't control. ***
*** “Rivers know this: There is no hurry, we shall get there some day.” — Winnie the Pooh ***

Online Mortesbride

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2019, 05:51:14 AM »


Don’t worry God didn’t leave out H either, his fortune cookie said “Don’t mistake temptation for opportunity.”



Ha! Wonder if we can get these mass produced. Could be useful.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2019, 07:33:27 AM »
🤣🤣🤣

Morte,

We will call them Midlife Cookies. 🥠
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2019, 03:53:08 AM »
H: “you you ever think that maybe this isn’t about you, it’s about me?”
Me: “sure, but then I would ask you the question of why are we focusing on everything I’m doing or not doing, to fix something that’s about you?”
H: “I don’t know”

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I’m waffling about standing.  How could there really be hope. I just not sure that someone can so radically change what they know about the world. We are light years apart in terms of morality.

It’s not just the affair. It’s in simple things. I’m tired of cruel words. I’m exhausted with emotional eggshells, and I think back to when H was fascinated by everything I have to say and how I think....now he just lives in an endless panic attack around me.

H is considering moving out for 30 days to see if that makes him feel better. 30 days???? 30 days....
No.
In fact....I don’t actually know at this moment wether I just want the divorce or 6months to a year apart.
I’m not in storage for safekeeping while you go have fun. I am an equal. Hell im better than that.
My personal thoughts are if you are out....give me a divorce....wether I chose to pursue dating or not is my choice....but I won’t be sitting by the phone hoping you figure out if you really like me or not.

Set me free if you don’t want me.

Ahhh but that’s not it is it. He doesn’t want anyone else to have me, he wants cake.  I don’t mean sex.
He wants me there waiting with baited breathe while he “sorts himself out.”

We both know he has no intention of sorting himself out....if he does it will be entirely inadvertent.
H wants to avoid the whole mess. And of course the real problem is me after all as H said he is only really getting about 90% of what he wanted in a wife.....”but the 10% is really important to me.”

The simple answer is he needs A) no back up plan (me), B) a truly hysterical girlfriend to show him what it’s like to date other people.
He’s avoidant, married to an INTJ, lamenting how emotional and out of control I am. 🤨
😂 okay then....go find a less emotional woman.😂

Jesus Mary and Joseph, I yelled for the first time in 13 years in the past 3 months.  13 years and I hadn’t yelled before, ( it’s not a productive way to communicate 🤷‍♀️).

I’m out I’d control. He goes and comes as he pleases, spends as he please, plans what he wants too.
He has his friends I have mine.
We agreed (MLC is its own animal) on finances, discipline, politics, religion, sex, children ect....
Everything he doesn’t like about me is projection.

H doesn’t realize it. So he needs to head out into the world and get a taste of real life. Because I’m just tired of screaming into the void. It’s pointless. He has nothing to compare our relationship with so he says it’s bad.

He needs to get out there and find the missing 10% obviously 🤷‍♀️

Most of me wants him to get a karma Mac-truck of truth to come barreling down on him like the wrath of God. The other half of me feels like it’s degrading to hope someone figures out 13 years and an affair  after the fact that you were actually a decent and worthy person who deserved better than the cruel treatment they gave you.

In the long run what’s 5 years....it’s nothing when you talk about spending 30, 40, 50 years together. But that’s also all those years of knowing that your significant other is capable of such callus treatment.

How long can gratitude last? How long before he slips back into comfortable patterns. How long before he goes back to holding grudges over the 10% that I’m not? When does apologizing become obligation?  I don’t want a person with me to atone for their sins.

I want a companion, a partner, someone to love, someone to make memories and adventures with. Someone to talk to, confide in, and cuddle with at night. I want someone to tell me how they see the world and challenge me to see it differently. I want someone to dream and hope with.

I don’t want a person to be with me due to guilt. I want them here because they find me fascinating and want to have adventures with me.

Can that ever even be the end goal of this?
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online Treasur

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2019, 04:13:00 AM »
Yes, ch. Yes it can. Just maybe in a slightly different shape than we planned.

Yes, screaming into the void is exhausting. And largely futile bc it's not your void.
Yes, much of what he says makes no sense and is projection. The glimmer of truth in there is that he is currently prepared to gamble the 90 for the 10. (Probably bc he thinks you will keep the 90 safe lol)

It's ok to not know what you want given where you are.
It's ok not to have a clear route map to what you do want.
The truth is though that YOU will set you free, not him. Not least bc actually he doesn't want to set you free or care about what you want right now.
And there are lots of different versions of 'free', some of which involve legal stuff and some of which don't.
It's ok to take your time with working out what that looks like too
And much easier when you are not distracted by someone else's version.

A turning point for me which has grown and grown is based on the story of Le Petit Prince and a saying about being 'unique au monde'. That the rose you tend is more valuable to you and you see it more closely bc you tend it...so it becomes unique even if objectively to someone else it might look like every other rose in a field of roses. We had the saying on our wedding cake bc there was something truthful in it that we once both felt. My former h didn't stop being entirely 'unique au monde' for me....but he stopped seeing me that way.

To be fair too, I don't know what kind of rose he is now lol only that he is tending to another rose instead of me  :) And I want to be seen, really seen, by someone I love and who loves me. For whatever set of reasons, my then h stopped wanting or being able to be or do that...and I really liked it when we both did, it was a joyful experience for me that I am grateful for. Letting go involved accepting that he could not be what I wanted as he was...but it didn't change the reality that it is what I want and offer and deserve and enjoy. Or that I am still a rather splendid rose.  ;)

It helped tremendously when I stopped seeing any point in reminding him of that but realised that, bc of what had happened, I needed to tend my own rose appreciatively for a while.

Let him head off like Don Quixote tilting at those 10% windmills, my friend, if that is what he chooses to do.
If nothing else, it will set you free from the 24-7 exhaustion of his nonsensical destructive quest or the obligation to be his Sancho  :)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 04:54:29 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2019, 06:11:53 AM »
🤣🤣🤣🤣

Treasur,

You have delighted me with your Don Quixote reference!
It absolutely made my day. I’m feeling very much like the reluctant Sancho of late.

It isn’t so much the waffling about wether or not you should keep the wife of 13 years, but the endless comments, wherein we discuss keeping or not keeping me as if I’m some funky decor piece we don’t want to toss for sentimental reasons but doesn’t quite fit with the rest of the room.
All very unemotional and casual.

Frankly I’m appalled at the casual idea of just tossing people aside....it’s such a stark contrast to the LBS’s moral stance that people aren’t disposable and you don’t just throw the whole person out.

But that’s what the MLCer does, just toss out an entire marriage and family over 10%

I don’t want a divorce....I want my power.  I don’t want a divorce.....I want equal footing.
I’m not really a back burner type of girl.  I won’t put myself there....and I’m really not interested in H trying to keep me there.

Question....if H is Don Quixote, and I’m Sancho.......oh please tell me that makes weasel face the proverbial A$$! 👏👏👏
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 06:28:40 AM by Couragedearheart »
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online Mortesbride

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2019, 06:24:41 AM »
A wee while ago I wrote how people view other people as disposable now.

Like an old pair of jeans.

They just fling them in the trash to get a new fancier pair that just came out...because so and so has a new pair.

But I kinda like an old worn in pair of jeans.

Ones that are comfortable, fit you perfectly in all the right places.

Ride or die jeans.

Just like relationships should be.  :)
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2019, 06:27:45 AM »
Morte!

❤️
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2019, 07:38:07 AM »
FYI,

H has already found himself a furnished apartment.

He maintains he hasn’t made a choice and wants to be here....and yet....he can’t even see that every action he takes is one that involves leaving.

I have said the entire time that I knew he was going to leave.

I just knew, I felt it from the beginning.

I’m pretty sure we won’t make Christmas.

How am I ever going to protect s15 heart, how can I keep this from destroying him? I don’t know how to keep him from getting hurt. It makes me feel panicked.

I don’t want him to have the sort of shame messages and abandonment issues I do.

How can I be a good parent if I can’t keep his heart safe?

I’m going to ask the counselor today if there is anything I can do to protect his heart.  Is this actually stopping the cycle of abandonment or perpetuating it?
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online Treasur

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2019, 07:58:49 AM »
Ch
I want you to Breathe now.
Bc you are spinning a bit (which is normal)
Bc you are afraid of what might happen next (which is normal too)

But neither the spinning nor the fear will change some of those things. And neither will help you change the things you can change.
So Breathe.

What is happening sounds like it is what you thought would happen, so in a strange way nothing has changed really. Just come into existence outside your head.

One of the things you can't change is to remove your son from the current reality of what is or how he feels about it
But that is not the same as assuming that he is doomed to repeat old patterns or will be destroyed even if it is true that he will be hurt and confused and learn and be changed by it
A safe heart tbh is a locked away one. The safest heart is one that knows how to trust itself and love and be loved anyway. By all means talk it over with your IC but I'd be surprised if your son was not already experiencing some of the fallout of your h's crisis just as you are. Your IC might help you think about new boundaries for a new situation too. Respect your son by giving him the basic facts without pretending to know what you don't know. Support him by letting him feel how he feels and find his own way to navigate these changing circumstances. And keep reminding yourself that you will both be ok bc that will help him feel that you both will. And it's true tbh.

Strangely for many here, although it wasn't what they wanted, life gets lighter for them and their kids when the dark confusing chaos of an MLC spouse leaves the house. It quarantines everyone from the exhaustion and uncertainty of it tbh. And I'm aware that only recently you were talking about how bone deep weary you were and how exhausting some of your h's anxiety-driven behaviour is. The good news is that he will move that out with him lol....your challenge i suspect is that your h will want to still use you as part of his support team, hence boundaries will probably help.

When is your h moving out? (Oh, and ignore what he thinks/wants about how you should 'see' or 'interpret' this choice...not his business to define, that's up to you.)
And how does this affect your own house plans? And finances?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 08:00:40 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2019, 08:50:13 AM »
Your H seems to be following the typical pattern. The first 6 to 12 months are confusing and exhausting as they cycle in and out of crisis, not sure about whether they want to go or stay. And none of it matters because the truth is that he is going to go if he's really in crisis. Ignore the 10% discussions because they don't matter. Even if you were able to magically change and provide the missing 10% it wouldn't matter because he no longer values the 90%. That's the harsh reality of MLC.

Eventually the crisis will carry him away and things will start to settle down. He may become a vanisher but more likely will settle into a pattern of regular contact, especially since you have a young son. He will contact you regularly about your son but that contact will be confusing because it will continue to be more about staying in touch with you than about staying in touch with your son. And this will continue for a long time while he processes through, or rather tries to avoid processing through, his crisis. Eventually, he may start turning back towards you but it will most likely be years before you start to see any of that and it won't have anything to do with anything you do or don't do along the way. Instead, it will be a sign that he is finally processing his issues.

Your son is going to be hurt by this. There isn't anything you can do to prevent it. It's probably already happening. But you can help him to get through it and be ok. He needs to have one sane parent, one anchor that he knows that he can always depend upon. You can be that person. It won't be ideal but it will be enough.

I want a companion, a partner, someone to love, someone to make memories and adventures with. Someone to talk to, confide in, and cuddle with at night. I want someone to tell me how they see the world and challenge me to see it differently. I want someone to dream and hope with.

I don’t want a person to be with me due to guilt. I want them here because they find me fascinating and want to have adventures with me.

Can that ever even be the end goal of this?

The answer to your question is yes, there is a chance that what you want could be the end goal but I have to be honest (blunt). Your H will probably not be capable of being that person for a very long time.

I agree with you. What's 5 years compared to spending 30, 40, or 50 years together? But I already had more than 30 of those years together when BD struck. I can tell you now what 5 years is because it's been more than 5 years since BD for me. 5 years is a lot of lonely nights, a lot of pain, and a lot of uncertainty. And after 5 years I still don't feel like I could tell you that I can see that end goal approaching.

I don't know what I would have done if BD would have occurred for me after 13 years of marriage instead of hitting after more than 30. But I'll tell you a story.

After we had been married for 10 years my youngest daughter was in a bad car accident. She was 6 years old and had what looked like serious head injuries. The doctors wanted to send her by air to a trauma center in the city but the weather was too bad so they couldn't. We spent the night by her side not knowing if she'd still be alive in the morning. Fortunately, the injuries turned out looking far worse than they actually were.

One day about 6 months later I thought I was having a heart attack. I was taken to the ER and diagnosed with the first of many panic attacks. We went through 6 years of he!!. I spent several days in a psych ward being treated for depression. I battled anxiety, woke up screaming in the middle of the night, became emotionally distant from my wife and family. My wife stayed right by my side through all of that. Eventually, I was diagnosed with PTSD and treated with EMDR. This was when EMDR was still experimental but it worked like magic.

Unlike an MLC I never left home or had an affair but I was miserable to live with for at least 6 years. I'm grateful that my wife stayed with me because we had 20 good years after I was treated for PTSD before her crisis hit. Now we've had 5 bad years and I'm afraid that I'm starting to question whether we'll ever have any more good years. My wife was strong enough to wait for me to recover but I don't know whether I'm strong enough to continue to wait for her. Five years of MLC is a very long time.

Offline Nerissa

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2019, 09:49:57 AM »
My H stayed home for almost two years.  I was desperate that he should not move out.  But Treasur is right.  Once he had gone, I realised how little peace I had while he was home but not fully with us.  The reality was nothing like as bad as I had expected ( and I was in a psychological mess and not functioning anything like as well as you).

My youngest was 14.  Again, I will Forever be furious that he did it, but left behind families find ways to fill the gap left somehow and it isn’t the disaster I expected.  It’s cold comfort at an horrendous time, I know, but a measure of relief came as soon as he left.  Thinking of you x

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2019, 10:25:32 AM »
Treasur,

You are correct, nothing has changed except confirmation of the inevitable. Funny you and the IC both said the same thing. I can’t and shouldn’t try to protect S15’s  heart from hurt....what I can do is make sure that he doesn’t take the wrong message from what happens next.

I’ve been laying the ground work with him (s 15) about having unkind childhoods, learning wrong messages and needing to heal the broken parts of ourselves. He’s very intelligent and can easily see what we have discussed in H, like H agreeing to something and when we ask the second time he says “actually I don’t want to do that at all.”  So S15 can tell that H struggles with boundaries and asserting himself and taking care of himself.  We have talked a couple times now about how dad May need to spend some time alone so he can learn to listen to his own body and feelings and take care of his own needs.

S15 knows H may move out. Knowing it and experiencing it are 2 different things.

H knows, and we have talked at length about not making s15 feel abandoned by him. And that I’m willing to allow as much time as the 2 of them want to spend together, without making it about maintaining any R between H and me.

(Lets be honest, H is fixated on me)

Financially I’ve been planning for H to lose his job and to have to live entirely off my income. I just got approved for a mortgage so I should be fine. Me and H are doing our very best to pay off all debts before January.  So there will only be 3 major things that could even be in contention between us and as of right now we agree on them. That would be giving me my car, it’s in his name, but the loan is 0% so I don’t want anything more than the title to come to me when it’s paid off (it’s supposed to eventually be s15 car anyway), making sure that the house I purchase stays with me and he has no claim or access to it. And I’ll definitely file for spousal support. But I haven’t planned for getting any of  it just because I don’t like surprises, and I’d rather plan to have less and let it be extra than need it to live and not get it.


MBIB,

The truth of it is.....I want H. Nobody else.
He fascinated me, he always has. I love his brain, he sees the world in a way that I can’t, with him I can suddenly see a whole other side of things that was unavailable to me.
He challenges me. We met at work, and would fiercely debate ideas and plans and implementation.
He is wildly  attractive to me....and he smells good to me....he has sexy pheromones 🤷‍♀️.

He is funny and clever, he is smart and tenderhearted (outside of MLC) and he’s enthusiastic about life in the same way I am, he never made me feel stupid for seeing the world with childlike wonder and amazement, he used to find that really attractive about me.

He’s charming, and silly, he will dance and sing at Christmas and serenade my 83 year old grandmother till she blushes.
He’s a wicked chess player, and the slowest card player in the world...and my life is better and more fun with him in it.
We have the worst romantic luck on the planet, every romantic holiday has been one of the most epic disasters in a way that comedy writers would love....it’s our thing. Sometimes your hotel room burns down on Valentine’s Day.....sometimes they play “From the windows to the walls” as the romantic music in the background of your anniversary dinner while you sit in an evening gown, sometime you hit a parked car on your wedding day. Life is an adventure.

H is the one I wanted to adventure with.

I have big feelings, they are deep and very strong.  I have my people and they have been my people my entire life....there are 3 of them.  I never loved anyone else. Only H.

If it takes 5 years then it takes 5 years....if he never comes back I think there will be a piece of my heart he takes with him.  This by far won’t actually be the worst thing I’ve ever been through....the self control will be the most difficult though.

I am the longest relationship in his entire life. We have lived together longer at this point than he lived with any parent.

Neither of us had every really lived before each other....just survival. Yes we dated and lived with other people...but life, experiences....all that was done together.  We liked to pick a different place for every vacation and go see all that there was to offer in that city. 

We would go try a new cuisine and order a dozen dishes.  We experimented and took risks and we were brave together....2 broken Chaos Kids learning what fun and adventure and excitement and life was.

H is the other half of my memories.....s15 entire childhood.

Because of the safety and comfort and love and happiness with H, I found me again. The only reason I’m not knee deep in the throes of my own MLC, is because my relationship with H healed so much for me.

I hope he lets me do the same for him.


“Frodo: I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.
Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.”
J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2019, 10:28:20 AM »
Courage, As far as keeping s15 safe.  I think there are certain obstacles in life we cannot protect them from.  We can love them m, guide them, hold their hand and be a soft place to land through it.  Your h’s actions are out of your control and so therefore, you can be a good parent by doing what you can control.  He will see your example.

I don’t want this for my kids either.  I was also abandoned as a child, but ultimately we just keep putting one foot and front of the other and lead the way to healing for them.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 15 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2019, 11:23:01 AM »
The truth of it is.....I want H. Nobody else.

I understand. I feel the same way about my wife which is why I've gone for more than 5 years without dating.

he never made me feel stupid for seeing the world with childlike wonder and amazement, he used to find that really attractive about me.

This is one of the things I loved about my wife. She had that same childlike wonder. Now I wonder if she was that way because her emotional development stopped while she was still young. I'm afraid that she may lose that childlike wonder if she makes it through her crisis successfully.

I wasn't trying to discourage you. I just wanted to let you know what it looks like from this side of the 5 year fence. Actually though, it's probably good that it takes so long. Five years into it and I'm just starting to figure myself out. It sounds like it won't take you nearly that long to figure yourself out so maybe your husband will take less time as well.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2019, 11:39:17 AM »
MBIB,

Wouldn’t that be nice. 5 years sounds like a long time, and to some extent it may be. I may feel differently about it in a few years.
One of the best things about me and H was that we were both the Protectors, which makes it hard to share your tough stuff with others, and people you view yourselves as protecting....we could share with each other though. It was safe.
I don’t know that I could share all that with normies. It would feel wrong and unsafe, like I was handing them a burden they had never been taught to handle.
With H it could often be a “yup, it sucks, and then it sucks some more.”  Instead of someone who acted horrified, or tried to get all smothery and comforting.  He saw me. The real me. And I saw him.
Neither of us needed protection from each other’s stories.


Treasur,

As for when H is moving out...he maintains he has no intention of moving out and that’s not what he wants.....as he finds a place to move out to and has a talk with the manager to check availability.

I guess it will be a surprise to all of us.....H included. 🤷‍♀️

H says that he plans on staying sober for 30 days and if he still feels anxious after that he will make a decision.

He maintains there is no one else.....phone records show he is still talking to OW.  She is a clingy needy whiny disaster, a drama queen chicken little the sky is falling sort.....so I think she sounds perfect for the job.

After careful consideration....I think finding the craziest most emotionally out of control person you can find is the best plan. It should provide excellent contrast.  A more sane one would be a serious threat. But with her penchant for inciting drama she will either drive him into the mental hospital, run him off, or implode his entire career.  Oh well, life’s about choices.

So now we wait..... btw he can’t kick me out and the rental agreement is through January.....so even if he takes off tomorrow I’ll be okay.

Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2019, 01:33:51 PM »
After careful consideration....I think finding the craziest most emotionally out of control person you can find is the best plan. It should provide excellent contrast.  A more sane one would be a serious threat. But with her penchant for inciting drama she will either drive him into the mental hospital, run him off, or implode his entire career.  Oh well, life’s about choices.

This was the same conclusion I came to regarding the om. This guy is so messed up that there's no way my wife could stay with him if she ever works through her issues. Five years later, she's still with him. It's strange, though, occasionally I'll see a comment she posts on one of our daughter's FB accounts and it's always things like "If you do that I want to go with you." I never see her use the pronouns "we" and "us" and she hasn't ever tried to bring him to any family functions. It's either her alone or her and her sister.

As for when H is moving out...he maintains he has no intention of moving out and that’s not what he wants.....as he finds a place to move out to and has a talk with the manager to check availability.

I guess it will be a surprise to all of us.....H included. 🤷‍♀️

I'm not suggesting this is what is going on, but if he were to have a dissociative disorder there could be two different parts at play with neither knowing what the other was up to. Which means your H could wind up surprised to learn that he has moved out.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2019, 01:45:41 PM »
MBIB,

This wouldn’t surprise me in the least. Like not even slightly it would make tons of sense, and since H’s go to stress mechanism is freeze type....well it would explain a lot.

I have considered it.  And based on what I know of his childhood abuse/torture I would probably be more surprised to discover he hadn’t dissociated than to find out he had.

I wonder if you can process and integrate your parts of you don’t know you have parts?

 
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2019, 02:33:59 PM »
Oh CH,

You capture what so many of us feel: We want our spouse and none other.

Very sweet, loyal and heartbreaking..... all at the same time.

I sure hope he comes out of it quick, yup... 5 years seems to be some kind of average time now.

Jumping on and staying with for the journey.  :D

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2019, 02:35:31 PM »
The short answer is yes. That's the reason for selecting an alienator that resembles the caregiver the child had problems with. It's called a compulsive reenactment. It's a subconscious attempt to resolve the trauma by repeating it. The person going through it has no idea that they're trying to resolve childhood trauma. The problem is that it's very slow and inefficient and often causes further trauma for the reenactor and for the reenactor's relatives and friends.

Van der Kolk is one of the pioneers of childhood trauma research.

Quote
Many traumatized people expose themselves, seemingly compulsively, to situations reminiscent of the original trauma. These behavioral reenactments are rarely consciously understood to be related to earlier life experiences. This "repetition compulsion" has received surprisingly little systematic exploration during the 70 years since its discovery, though it is regularly described in the clinical literature. Freud thought that the aim of repetition was to gain mastery, but clinical experience has shown that this rarely happens; instead, repetition causes further suffering for the victims or for people in their surroundings.

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/vanderkolk/

My emphasis.

Another good article about reeenactments.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3330499/

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2019, 02:46:34 PM »
MBIB,

That seems pretty logical. And of course you would be very attracted to those people, all your coping mechanisms match their bad behaviors.

It would feel effortless at first.
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2019, 04:28:50 PM »
I was trying to avoid saying this but it would probably feel like they had met their soulmate.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2019, 12:45:20 AM »
I laid down and wept last night. I wept for the little boy that was never loved. The one that was all alone, hurt abused unwanted mistreated in an emotional wasteland.

H doesn’t know he’s supposed to have feelings. He doesn’t know the names of them. H felt joy for the first time last night, and asked me what he was feeling...then said...I want more of that. Me too. I want him to have more of that too.

H doesn’t trust people. The only thing in the house he trust right now are dogs. Every time I speak to him he feels attacked. Last night I said “ I love you and care about you but I think we need help”, H heard nothing but an attack and proceeded to scream at me.

How is someone supposed to even figure out that they are missing a part of them? H says it’s just who he is....and he doesn’t trust any people at all.

So I cried for that little boy. The boy without feelings. The one that nobody talk too. The boy without hugs, or stories, or cuddles, or hope. A little boy who never felt joy. It’s just so damn unfair. He never deserved this.

They didn’t just steal his childhood, they stole himself from him. They took his feelings, everyone of them, and all the information it tells you about yourself.  How do you believe everything you know about the world is wrong?

  It breaks my heart to see it. Because I know. I know what kind of torture it takes to kill feelings...and I also know fractured eye sockets, a month of solitary confinement and daily beatings and not being called by a human name weren’t enough to kill mine.....do you dare imagine what happened to him...no you don’t.  Nobody wants too. It isn’t  firetrucking convenient to think about what kind of abuse it takes before a child can even talk that causes this.   

It’s the thing we don’t talk about. It isn’t polite for company. It’s not light and fluffy enough to be said out loud.....human beings did this to a child, a toddler......and he grew up hating himself....this is the firetrucking elephant in the room.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 12:48:21 AM by Couragedearheart »
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online Treasur

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2019, 01:10:25 AM »
I just wanted you to know that we hear you, ch.
Yes, it is heartbreaking and tears are a worthy tribute to the sorrow and injustice of it.
And there is a little girl to cry for as well as a little boy I think....both equally worthy of compassion and encouragement?

I knew my then h well enough to know some of his dark places. Turns out not all of them or as well as I thought lol but even when I was most lost in my own pain, I never entirely lost compassion for that little boy or broken man.
Yet
someone else's  elephant can also be a black hole if we stand too close...a kind of dark miasma that seeps out in tendrils into the corners of a room.
and our compassion for the injustice can also feed their sense of helpless victimhood or belief that what was broken or stolen can't be healed or reclaimed
and seeing the child can get in the way of also seeing the adult who might choose to do the work of healing that only they can do
and inadvertently seeing ourselves as the source of light when we know the way out is to find their own

There are many of us here who have wept as you did, for others or for themselves
It is an honest feeling....but not where hope lives imho. And there is hope, ch, it can get better even if you can't always see how it will xxx
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2019, 01:30:04 AM »
Treasur,

As you probably already know, I can easily weep for the little boy, I just can’t seem to feel the same compassion for the little girl, not consistently yet. She is a survivor, just like him. But then I think maybe that’s what she was made for....to take the blows so other people didn’t have too. Maybe that’s why she didn’t break. That was her purpose.

Logic will tell you nobody was made to get hit, or called names. But I’m good at it. I’m tough and I’m strong, and I learned how to fight back....when I left the military I went home, I fought back I made sure no one would ever get hit again. And they haven’t.

I can cry for him in a way I can’t for me. I don’t know why. It doesn’t matter. Someone should cry for H, someone should care what happened to him.
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online Treasur

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2019, 01:43:00 AM »
I would gently suggest that it does matter, my friend. That being a survivor does not mean deserving any less compassion or self-compassion for what you survived. And that your purpose is about way more than just taking blows for others. Doesn't need to be an either/or. There is not a finite supply of compassion in the world. I have faith that this is part of your journey too and that you are strong and wise so you will get there when the time is right x
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2019, 07:38:42 AM »
Treasur,

You are of course right.

I don’t know how to make myself believe differently, even though I know the truth.

It’s just doesn’t change beyond an intellectual level.

Ahhh well, that’s what the IC is there for, right?
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online Treasur

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2019, 07:42:10 AM »
 :)
And people who love you. And us. And treating yourself as if you believe it until you do x
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2019, 09:31:10 AM »
You can't think compassion. You have to feel compassion.

It's hard to feel compassion for somebody you don't know or respect.

You need to get to know that little girl, you need to understand her, you need to find a way to get past the messages you learned about her from other people and to realize what a special little girl she is, you need to find a way to understand what it cost her to survive her experiences, and then I think you'll find it easier to feel compassion for her.

Dig deep. Look beneath the abuse and neglect. Who is that little girl? What does she enjoy? What makes her happy? What makes her special besides her ability to survive and fight back? What would she be like if she didn't have to be strong and tough?

Take your focus off your husband. You can't fix him. He's a distraction that makes it possible for you to avoid looking at yourself. The best thing you can do for your husband is to be his guide. Lead by example. Show him how to fix himself by showing him how you're fixing yourself.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2019, 01:38:30 AM »
MBIB,

I don’t know. I don’t know who she is....and I don’t really have access to most of my memories. I did. Except for my childhood up until maybe a year or 2 ago....now I can’t really remember I have to look at pictures and even then...nothing new just the same 5-6 memories....without much attachment to them either.

What I remember wanting as a child was still based so much off of survival, I don’t know those dreams were really dreams or just wanting to be safe.  I wanted to be G.I. Jane, But was that just to be strong enough or because that’s who I wanted to be? I’m not sure.

So in large part I’m just waiting, waiting to get far enough in therapy we can do the emdr, to see if I can access my memories and figure out who I am.  I keep trying, it’s just frustrating, I can meditate and not much....I can do that and think about breathing till I fall asleep and not have all kinds of thoughts pop up. My brain will run a million miles an hour....till you ask it about me....then radio silence. 🤷‍♀️

It’s weird. I journal. But the reality is there’s 2 big shame messages, and I just find myself bouncing off the 2 of them. Inserting them over and over and over.  It’s like that’s the entirety of my personality those 2 shame messages. And I’m frustrated with that. It’s controlling me and I don’t like it. But because I have applied those 2 messages so broadly to my life, all of me has been about those shame message in every memory I can pull. But I don’t have the ability to change it yet.

Every choice I’ve ever made was to offset or ameliorate the shame. Who would I be without it? I don’t even know. I don’t know if there’s dreams to go back too, and say there she is the real me. I drown myself in books, I have since I was tiny. I live through them. I have hundreds in the house, thousands on the kindle and iPad, and a few extras stashed away that I don’t feel like admitting I bought yet...my own personal addiction.

But a person cannot live vicariously through books. At some point they should write their own dreams for themselves....I don’t know that I ever did that. I know how I want to feel, I know I like nature, I don’t like consumerism, greed, or showing off, I know some things I like and don’t like....but I’ve kind of always treated life a bit like ordering everything off the menu, trying everything within the confines of my morals hoping I’d stumble upon the things that make my heart sing....being a mom is one, nature and hiking is another, writing is one, H was one.....cooking and inventing recipes....other than that....I genuinely don’t know.

When I realize all my childhood dreams and goals were to be safe and loved, then I met H and it’s been 13 years of trying things to make dreams beyond safety or love.

I just feel confused about me most of the time. And frustrated with all my attempts at self introspection since it’s just me circling back to the same shame messages over and over and over again.

It’s why I haven’t signed up for school yet....I don’t know what I want to go to school for🤷‍♀️ And I have to go back. My job requires a bachelors degree, and I don’t know what I want to get it in?

 So I’m frustrated, and stuck. And I honestly don’t know how to get mentally unstuck.
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2019, 08:39:40 AM »
I suppose I have just been surviving all this time. Now having reached a point in life where I have experienced the worst fear and survived it, I am forced to accept that I survived and go about the business of living.

Which is daunting.

The comforting part of surviving is at least in some sense you get to be a victim of circumstance, living is an entirely different animal. It’s not that I particularly miss my victim hood, it’s more of a don’t know what to do with the freedom and responsibility.

Free will. The most awesome power we wield in the universe, only limited by the scope of our imagination. 

I don’t particularly like being here again, last time it was freeing, I had a goal, knew what I wanted and used my imagination to get me there.

I didn’t want the world laid at my feet. I didn’t want to be out in the world untethered again. I don’t actually want to reinvent my life all over again.....and I just moved here....I don’t want to go back to where I came from...and I don’t want to go forward with H’s plan for life if it isn’t with me, and I am hesitant to make my own separate plan because I don’t know what I want yet.

We promised ourselves the move here was temporary.

So once again...just like 14 years ago when me and H met, it’s just me and S15, no attachments to any particular place, no reason to be here other than H. In a new town, no family, a couple new friends....just here.

Do I put roots? Do I move closer to family? How do I decide any of it if the entire trajectory of my life is changing?
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online Treasur

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2019, 09:19:12 AM »
Ch
Congratulations....I think you have come to some big important questions here. Nothing much to do with your h at all really. What a remarkable kind of person you are to get to here, truly.

Yup. Free will can be pretty scary. Like just wanting a cup of coffee and standing in front of a supermarket shelf with 1043 different types of coffee.

You said "last time it was freeing, I had a goal, knew what I wanted and used my imagination to get there". Sit with that for a moment. What are you telling yourself when you say that? From over here, it looks like you are saying that you have the capabilities and experience you might need? What did you do or learn then that might help you now?

You said "I don't particularly like being here again...I didn't want...I don't want...."
Lots of Not Wants.

You might have seen a while back on my thread that I got stuck in a Not Wants and Wants place. Got really really stuck.
And that recently I have been learning a bit about the Law of Attraction and listening to some Abraham Hicks stuff. And that has had a big effect on my mindset tbh.
Regardless of your beliefs about this LoA stuff...and indeed mine, one of the simple truths behind it is that what we focus on gets bigger. So the more we think about the Not Wants the harder it is to see the Wants, and we just get more of the Not Wants bc that is where our energy and attention is.

Another is that sometimes when we think we don't know what we Want, it isn't actually true but we are trying to force ourselves to get too specific. House x or house y for example. Whereas often the real goal is less specific..e.g. How do I want to feel living in my new home?...and once we tune into that, the specifics unfold if that makes sense? Bc of course there is almost always more than one route to that isn't there?

So, let's assume that your trajectory is changing, has already changed actually....if you were Living rather than surviving, what would you like to feel like? What would you like more of? What would be the opposite to how the Not Wants feel right now?

You are doing so well, ch.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 09:21:53 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2019, 10:19:13 AM »
You are in such a similar place to me.  We had just moved here after bd and it’s just me and the kids, with no real place to lay down roots. 

You just wanting to be safe and loved as a child sounds so similar to my goals in life.  I wanted a family to call my own, I wanted to be loved and that was all I really needed in life.  I had no other real aspirations.  My faith and family was enough.  You will figure out who you are and what you want.  It is hard to think clearly after such a traumatic event.  It has only been recently that I can think.  Your clear mind will resurface in time.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 15 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2019, 02:25:21 AM »
Treasur,

How do I even say think you for that advice? First it was the questions you asked. I wrote them out...then began to journal each one.

It was clarifying and refreshing.

I journaled furiously for about 2 hours and was so exhausted I had to take a nap. It was as if you gave me a key to myself. I feel very emotional about it.

So I will just say thank you.  Because I don’t really have the words yet for the rest of it.

Joy,

You and Treasur are my go too people. We can never be alone, we never were actually alone really.
I find now when I am at my most desolate, the times when I sit in the shower and howl and sob in my pain....he is there, waiting on me. Offering solace.

Maybe when I feel so very alone it’s more of me rejecting what’s offered because it isn’t what I wanted rather than considering the people and support available to me here, I am looking at the problem and making it bigger.

I am glad you are hear. Your faith is a boon to my soul and a reminder that there is help and comfort and belonging offered and available.....if only I will look to God for it instead of man.

Thank you.
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online Treasur

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2019, 02:34:08 AM »
No words needed, my friend  :)...feel it without them...if I was of any small service then that is a nice way to acknowledge all of the times when others did the same to support me.
Still your key though, darling girl, and good thing too bc you are the best person to hold it while God has your back too xxx
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2019, 11:10:52 AM »
Courage, such wise words!  Truly we are never alone and we are sometimes slow to recognize the connections God puts in our path to help us in our journey.  I am very thankful to be surrounded by so many inspirational people.  ♥️
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 15 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2019, 08:40:00 PM »
H decided it was important that I was reminded once again that he is leaving......
So the speech tonight was that he needs to be selfish, to not have any obligations, to do whatever he wants when he wants without feeling obligated to a marriage or family. That he was broken and needed to be able to feel and do and spend whatever he wanted.

I asked how marriage was preventing that? Did he think I was going to physically stop him from doing anything? He said no, it was in his head. Oh, so what is it that I’m supposed to do about your thoughts or feelings?  Is there an action that anyone else on earth other than you can do to change them? No....still we circle the elephant.

So then it’s this pesky living together, piece of paper and metal bands on our fingers that are making you have thoughts and feelings.......

I would be happier without him, I should find someone better who would make me happy....blah blah ect...ect.

Here’s and idea....how about not making decisions about me, my feelings, my wants, and what will make me happy. And no....I’m not interested in the opinions of the guy currently nuking his own life, family, marriage and credit score in an attempt to be happy, deciding what will make me happy. He doesn’t know me that well, heck at this moment I don’t know me that well so I’m certain he doesn’t.

Besides all those things are my choices. Back off and let me make them.

There’s much to be said about H following me around telling me he needs space and distance. How about stop following me around.....

Or making declarations of independence and needing to be alone....before coming upstairs to my bedroom to not sleep alone....

Irony remains dead, viewing is at 2pm and again at 6pm, services are open to the public. 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2019, 07:28:02 AM »
Oh my goodness!!!  I love the irony of it all!  His actions are not exactly matching his words! 

You are handling yourself like a champ!!!
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 15 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #52 on: October 12, 2019, 07:40:39 AM »
Joy,

I am in a MOOD

When I get like this....I’m very feisty.  MLCer beware.

The last time I felt like this I may have danced around H in the kitchen doing jazz hands and singing “you don’t get to tell me how to feel my feelings when you won’t deal with yours.....”
(That is absolutely something I did)

Something about crossing my boundaries into assumptions that you know me well enough to make decisions about my life without you or future predictions for me.

H keeps attempting to channel Ms Cleo and be a mindreader, frankly he’s awful at it and should probably stick to his day job. 🤷‍♀️

Then again I think.....it’s probably a bit how H feels when I try to “help” him.     

It will be okay, as I tell H “you have survived....up to this point 100% of the conversations you have had, more than likely you will survive this one too”  so if I make a few mistakes, I will forgive myself for them and learn from them.

I’ll let holding people to a standard of perfection remain the purview of the MLCer. 🤷‍♀️

*prances away sarcastically*
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2019, 08:55:07 AM »
Courage!  At one point I think that Dance may have escalated my monster into physical violence!  😂🤩🤪. I would love to be a fly on the wall for that one!!   

Yes, great idea to leave standards of perfection to the MLCer!  I always think back to my husband’s words in the months after bd.  “Why didn’t you just paint your toenails more”.  Because had I, he could have loved me apparently ::).

Too true!  When we try to help them we are doing the same thing!  Lord knows I have no clue what makes mine tick, so helping him is futile.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 15 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #54 on: October 12, 2019, 09:21:38 AM »
Joy,

Oh god not the toenails!!!!! How could you! 😂😂😂

Sweet baby Jesus.

Today would not be the day for any of that.....I would have a little monster of my own.

I didn’t paint my toenails? That’s the problem? WHEN HAVE YOU EVER PAINTED YOUR TOENAILS FOR ME? Have you ever considered that?...........not once not even one time in our entire marriage did you paint your toenails for me.....NOW I FEEL UNLOVED!!!! Ect ect

🤣🤣🤣🤣

I believe they call that mirroring?

🤣 jk

But it would be funny.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 09:23:28 AM by Couragedearheart »
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #55 on: October 12, 2019, 09:35:05 AM »
Joy,

Actually the dance sort of stopped monster in it’s tracks.

H just stood there...stupefied.....

What could he do?  A bit like the grinch watching the whos

He was mad, and terrifying and being intimidating and failing miserably at it.

Boo 👻

🤣🤣🤣

Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Anjae

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #56 on: October 12, 2019, 10:45:41 AM »
There’s much to be said about H following me around telling me he needs space and

distance. How about stop following me around.....

Or making declarations of independence and needing to be alone....before coming

upstairs to my bedroom to not sleep alone.

MLCers... phew... he can't see the contradiction between his words and his actions.


Maybe leaving the MLCer alone is better than dance around him? Maybe going for a walk will do?
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #57 on: October 12, 2019, 11:57:50 AM »
Oh my goodness!!!  That kind of mirroring is the best kind🤣🤣🤣!!  Love it!  Ha!  I’m thinking it might be kind of difficult to have a witty comeback to that 💃 dance:). I’m sure he started wondering if you had joined him in crazytown😜. You gotta throw em off sometimes! 
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 15 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #58 on: October 12, 2019, 12:30:32 PM »
Of course words and actions don’t match.

Words are who we want to be....actions are who we are. 

You are what you consistently do.

But in order for the MLCer to view themselves as a victim, justified in their actions, and continue doing what they are doing they excuse this in themselves.

Then get mad at you for refusing to believe words over actions.

But just as it’s easier for us to look at them then to look at ourselves, it’s much easier and more comfortable for them to focus on us and our actions than their own.
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2019, 12:52:41 PM »
BB,

When your actions change it’s because you changed. Who we are isn’t set in stone. We learn and grow.  But that’s part of the responsibility we all hold...to be accountable for our actions.

Justice is being held responsible and accountable for your actions, injustice is paying for them over and over.

We shouldn’t be held accountable and pay for who we were forever, neither should the MLCer.  But there really isn’t a point where we just pretend like it never happened and didn’t matter.

When I am lying, I am a liar, I am accountable for the lies I’ve told. If I learn not to lie and my consistent action is being truthful then I am no longer a liar....but I cannot undo having been one in the past.

IMO
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2019, 03:10:50 PM »
I am very interested in hearing thoughts on kicking MLCer out vs waiting for them to leave.

My initial thoughts have always been that since H is the one who wants to leave, and H is the one with abandonment issues.....it would be healthier for him to leave me....then me to kick him out.

Something about owning your choices.

However, in January I hope to be moving to my own house. I would rather not have H move in with me.  My thought was I could move out Jan 1, the rental agreement is till February 1st and that way he would have 30 days alone (which is all he keeps talking about while following me around the house and never leaving me alone).

After 30 days alone he will have either taken up with someone, signed for the furnished apartment he has been scoping out, or attempt (I doubt it) to make amends with me.

So I need to decide what’s best.
And what boundaries I want for him moving into my house if that’s what he’s pursuing.
Thoughts? 
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline Finding Joy

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2019, 05:25:00 PM »
I personally think you should do whatever is best for you vs worrying about the effects on him.  He may change the storyline later, saying you kicked him out, but that is not the truth.
Married 19 years
Husband is 42
I am 38
BD-October 15 2018-ILYBNIL, wants a divorce, this after I found out about OW 1(EA), I believe he is on to OW 2(PA)
BD 2-March 2019-He is getting an apartment

4 kids 5-14 years

But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Online Mortesbride

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2019, 06:37:12 AM »
I think you should go about choosing at option that is good for you if you are on your own.

Something you can handle and maintain by yourself. Because realistically speaking it is likely very soon or in the near future he will run, and you will be on your own with it.

Maybe it won't happen, then bonus you don't have to worry, but don't get yourself stuck in a position thinking he will be around when it is most likely to be the opposite.

As for kicking him out..well you don't necessarily have to do it in dramatic fashion. You have already had bomb drop and lived together since...so it is a little less raw I guess?

The day I found out about he phone call, is the day I packed his clothes in totes which were sitting in the living room by the time he got home from work. I gave him a choice to stop talking to OW, sort out his issues and stay home...or he could take his $h!te and go to his mother's.

He has been there every since.

At first I worried this was the wrong move. That I had been to hasty, or working off emotions.

It took me a few months to realise how much negative emotion left the house with him. No more yelling at me, no more bowls thrown against the walls, no more egg shells, no more anxiety about the kids making to much noise.

It was the best gut decisions I made. I do not regret it now.

But you are in a very different situation then I was in at the time.

Perhaps you can just plan your future solo, and leave him to plan his. Whatever you do, do not solve the problem for him. If he wants to be with you and is ready to work on the marriage, he will let you know.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #63 on: October 13, 2019, 08:20:09 AM »
Morte

This is good advice.

I have planned everything for him leaving and me living on my own. But he says he plans on moving into the new house with me.....while making backup plans for his own apartment. The majority of monster is at work...so having him here doesn’t really have me on eggshells as much. And since I’m fixing My shame messages with the IC he really doesn’t trigger me all that much anymore.

It isn’t intolerable to live with him.

However.....I also don’t want to facilitate dragging out the whole process. Like if moving out is the motivator to work on himself then let’s go ahead and get that started vs wallowing at the house.

But he’s also very much drama lama pity party. 🥺🎉

So to some extent I much prefer him leaving as opposed to the hysteria that he will enact if he is tossed from the safety of his home out into the cruel world all forlorn and desolate *cue sad violin music*

Financially I’m good, and planning a life I can afford on my own, so any spousal support will be extra not necessary for survival.

It may not end up even being an issue by the time we get there....but a part of me feels like it makes much more sense to just separate at the end of this Rental than to move him into the new house only for him to head for the hills a month or so after.

Sort of leave the trauma of that at the old house in some way. And feel as if the new house is a bit symbolic.  (It’s difficult to tell but I may have already planned this out in my head, and drama lama is not going along with my plans) ugh! 

Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online Mortesbride

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #64 on: October 13, 2019, 09:17:53 AM »
Well you know...you get a choice in all this too.

It isn't always up to them.
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Online Treasur

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2019, 09:24:03 AM »
Well you know...you get a choice in all this too.

It isn't always up to them.

My exact thought too. Your new house found and paid for by you right? Seems a bit cart before horse for the invitation and terms to come from anyone but you...jmo.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2019, 12:12:00 PM »
*sigh*
Good....so we all all in agreement then......the elephant Courage is refusing to look at right now is that she doesn’t want to be the “bad guy”......

(FYI, I was really hoping one of you would have a brilliant plan to help me avoid it)

Well, this is not any fun at all.

I’m going to close the door quietly, and check back in a month or so and see if the elephant has gone away.
🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

You don’t have to say it........I know....
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Offline CouragedearheartTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2019, 02:20:45 PM »
First EMDR,
I felt it was unsuccessful, but we will see. I’m blocking it’s like an apartment wall, I know there’s stuff on the other side...I can hear enough to know stuff is going on over there....not enough to remember what it is. That’s control....that’s what my wall is. I forgot I was anorexic for a bit....that was about control too. When so much of your life is out of control sometime you turn inward to rigidly control the aspects of your life that you can control.

I have slept almost the entire day.... my brain is very tired. Occasionally I wake up and have a clarity that wasn’t there before, but combined with a headache....I accomplished a couple things I’ve been avoiding....but get exhausted again and go lay back down.

I can tell I’m grinding my teeth....I haven’t done that since I was very little. How odd. I also realize that certain emotions make me feel very young.....as if I hadn’t used that emotion at all since childhood. Some I don’t even have names for. 

I guess I didn’t realize that you felt emotions in your body....and most people feel them through the day....many times I only feel them at the end of the day or when I’m alone.  I guess like H I didn’t consider them safe for people. Not because of what I’ll do or not do. But because I have no expectation of them being acknowledged or accepted.  So I’m playing this game....name the mystery sensation....

All my plans for January aren’t going to work unless I can find a spare $4k. That’s alright, I found an apartment around the corner that’s in the right price range so it will do in a pinch.  Things will work out how they are supposed too.

I’m too tired to think or write anymore....my brain feels bruised. I’m come back later this week.
Me 36
H 36
S14
Wallower?
EA discovered 5/31/2019
BD May 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

Online Treasur

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #68 on: Today at 08:19:52 AM »
Fwiw, ch, I recognised some of what you described here from my own experience of EMDR. And the exhaustion absolutely. I couldn't drive home after the first session but had to pull over and sleep for 30 mins or so and felt wiped for quite a few hours afterwards.

It was definitely cumulative...I think I could feel something going on from about the third session onwards. The tiredness got much less though. It was an odd, rather magical, slightly random feeling. I think I described it as feeling sometimes as if there was a bit of my brain doing its own thing not under my conscious control while I was busy with other things, like a small washing machine that would occasionally spit out some random memory or thought or feeling. But usually pretty positive ones tbh. Odd feeling though.
« Last Edit: Today at 08:21:20 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: The Adventures of the Chaos Kids + 🐘
« Reply #69 on: Today at 09:24:05 AM »
I always felt pretty wiped out after EMDR. You wouldn't expect something so simple to be so exhausting, but it is.

 

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