[Acorn]

It is my opinion that it’s not so much the educational background as it is the level emotional maturity of the poster that indicates whether one is able to engage in a productive manner.  Hurling personal insults or saying ‘I’m spitting mad because I don’t agree’ without giving a cogent argument is neither mature, nor productive, in my view.

Among many signs of emotional maturity, there are notable ones that make the list in many books and discussions, academic or otherwise.  These are, off the top of my head:

1. Taking full personal responsibility without blaming anything or anyone
2. Self control - respond, not react
3. Recognize and admit when you are wrong. And then apologize.
4. Recognize where the areas of personal growth are and work on it

And the list goes on.  Adulting is hard...

Just my 2 cents’ worth!

[Not Applicable]

I think you make valid points Acorn and I don't disagree, if you are talking about general human interaction.

But we were talking specifically about debating. And I do think debate is a more academic/political pursuit than anything else. It's not something that someone learns the rules and conventions of in general social situations.

[Ready2Transform]

1. Taking full personal responsibility without blaming anything or anyone
2. Self control - respond, not react
3. Recognize and admit when you are wrong. And then apologize.
4. Recognize where the areas of personal growth are and work on it

LOVE this.

This discussion (or debate? IRONY) over semantics of words is all distraction. If everyone agreed on every point or didn't have a POV to bring to a conversation, HS would just be a blog with comments that all say, "great job!". There are plenty of those out there. RCR does not filter membership here so everyone is welcome to the party, and sometimes there will be debates. I think LP hit the nail on the head with this:

I can't tell you how much time is wasted when someone reads into a post instead of reading the words there.

We've all been guilty of it, especially when we've had a contentious forum relationship with someone in the past, or just have a particular attitude toward someone that puts their words in a different internal voice than what might be intended.

This is why I didn't understand how out of hand the conversation got on ShockSis's thread. I didn't read any personal attack in the suggestion that SS might not have resolved her MLC. It's not an outlandish suggestion, since it's generally agreed around here that the timeline is not under five years, and doesn't end with the resolution of the marriage (whether requited with the LBS, or turned down by them). And it's not unusual to hit a place in the healing process where you begin to teach a bit. But who knows. As has been pointed out here by pretty much everyone on both sides, we have no idea what really lies behind the words we're all crafting for each other. It's all food for thought for those of us still healing from our perspective experiences.

LP also referenced accommodation and I think that's so important to highlight. We used to talk about co-dependence here and finding the places we may have lost ourselves, either within our spouses MLCs, or within the marriage in general. Accommodation was a big theme, and it's important I think to not transfer co-dependence to the forum and have it need to fulfill that for us. Learning to individuate, sometimes stand against the crowd (standing in general is just that in many ways in regards to society's view of separation and divorce), and find our independence is a gift we didn't expect from this. I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from exploring new ideas and attitudes, or even finding their own voice (which may not always play out perfectly). By needing to have people either confirm our biases or shun those that don't in a sort of "soft-mob mentality", I think it's doing just that.

[Thunder]

See NYM, that is your opinion. 

My opinion is a good debater needs people skills and can communicate efficiently.   
Feel confident you know the topic you are debating, and also have good listening skills.

I would never debate something I know little about.

[Anjae]

I would never debate something I know little about.

Here we mostly discuss/debate MLC. We surely know enough about it, don't we?

[Acorn]

Sorry, I was not clear., NYM.   I just assumed that people could read my mind! 
Yes, I was talking about general human interaction, including debating on HS.   

By the way, I’m not dismissing the ‘education’ factor in debating and how one learns and practices it in the academia.  Seeing that HS is not in the realm of tertiary institutions and it is full of emotive subjects, I hold the opinion that the emotional maturity level of a poster perhaps plays a more significant role than his/her knowledge and experience in debating when he/she posts.  I think that person’s emotional maturity gives him the ability to engage in a gainful discussion without lashing out in knee jerk reaction, which has no substance and resides in the realm of child having a tantrum. 


You perhaps had same moment as me in regards to people reading your mind with your replay #21.

I think you meant:

But we were talking specifically about debating. And I do think debate is a more academic/political pursuit than anything else. It's not something that someone learns the rules and conventions of in general social situations.

However, I can see how people may have perceived that post as arrogant and dismissive of those with no shiny letters before and after our names. 

I must admit I was taken aback by the comment as well. 
It’s good to read of your true intentions behind those words.  Thank you. 

[Thunder]

Of course Anjae we have had many discussions on MLC.  Some very good ones, helpful ones in fact.

I was talking in general. 

[Not Applicable]

Sorry, I was not clear., NYM.   I just assumed that people could read my mind! 
Yes, I was talking about general human interaction, including debating on HS.   

By the way, I’m not dismissing the ‘education’ factor in debating and how one learns and practices it in the academia.  Seeing that HS is not in the realm of tertiary institutions and it is full of emotive subjects, I hold the opinion that the emotional maturity level of a poster perhaps plays a more significant role than his/her knowledge and experience in debating when he/she posts.  I think that person’s emotional maturity gives him the ability to engage in a gainful discussion without lashing out in knee jerk reaction, which has no substance and resides in the realm of child having a tantrum. 

I also to some extent was contrasting the behavior one would find in school (teenage girl style) when two people disagreed, as opposed to that of grown ups.

I still think emotional maturity is only one part of it though. I think someone may lack the confidence in their ability to successfully get their point across because they feel they lack what we might call debating skills. Some people may just stay silent in that case, which is an emotionally mature way of reacting. Others, however, lacking such skills, will manifest that lack of skills by trying to make their case in an emotionally immature way. If they can't beat you with a cogent argument, they will try to beat you with insults and name calling or just simply tell you to shut up and butt out.

[Not Applicable]

Good summary of what I said, Blue Belle. Thanks.

I think I would tie it up by saying I would not hold it against anyone if they lack either debate or discussion skills, but I will hold it against them if they try to compensate for the lack of such skills by engaging in emotionally immature reactions.

[Nas]

LP also referenced accommodation and I think that's so important to highlight. We used to talk about co-dependence here and finding the places we may have lost ourselves, either within our spouses MLCs, or within the marriage in general. Accommodation was a big theme, and it's important I think to not transfer co-dependence to the forum and have it need to fulfill that for us. Learning to individuate, sometimes stand against the crowd (standing in general is just that in many ways in regards to society's view of separation and divorce), and find our independence is a gift we didn't expect from this. I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from exploring new ideas and attitudes, or even finding their own voice (which may not always play out perfectly). By needing to have people either confirm our biases or shun those that don't in a sort of "soft-mob mentality", I think it's doing just that.

Agree with this a million times over.