[Anon]

Jack, I did not inquire anything of you.  I simply made a comment supporting the post that immediately preceded mine,,, in BOTH cases when I posted.  If I may, your reaction to my posts are more than a little out of line as are your reactions to some other posters on this thread who have politely let you know they would like you to drop it. 

[Nas]

Jack, really, perhaps you should start a discussion thread so people have a place to respond to you about this particular subject, but your repeated mischaracterizations of menopause are troubling. It’s not some mentally debilitating, soul crushing horror show called “The Menopause.”
There’s literally decades of research on menopause. It can produce some shifts in mood, sure, but it’s not the kind of manic/depressive out of control event you seem to keep describing. It’s a natural shift in hormone levels over a period of years. Which happens multiple times throughout our lives. It doesn’t turn benevolent women into monsters.

Nas, I was going to start a discussion thread as I have already mentioned in my previous post to Thunder which you should be aware of as you are following along. However on reflection I have decided in a greater part due to your disparaging replies too my posts not to pursue this at this time as I seek greater knowledge/understanding and not to antagonise anyone or gender.

In resolution of this matter I would respectfully suggest as you find my dialog relating to my personal opinions on the effects of the Menopause/Andropause and it’s possible impact on MLC allegedly mischaracterising, you avoid reading/replying to my posts as I will be doing to yours.

I hope this clarifies matters as I do not want to get involved at all with infighting as it blocks avenues that need exploring and I would imagine puts off many who want to post for the first time and reduces their growth/healing.
Jack

I am on my phone and unable to select all text. Could a moderator please take this entire post for me and move it to my own thread? I would like to use it when I can to start a discussion on my own thread. (If that is not possible, then as soon as I am at my computer I will copy this to my own thread and then ask a moderator to remove it from this thread.)

Saw this coming a mile away…

[Shockandawe]

Hi Jack

I understand your quest to attribute a specific reason for MLC as I am sure everyone on this forum would. MLC has many factors and layers. I absolutely maintain one of the biggest if not the biggest contributor is FOO issues, along with 3 definite markers if you like and as I have said before, I feel sure if the LBS were to look back they would recognise their existence.
Stress over a period of time which brings on depression, a lot of people are depressed but not all go into MLC I know but I think the biggest determining factor is a traumatic event, the size or severity of the trauma is as individual as the MLCer. Once this traumatic event happens it’s as if the brain can no longer cope and somehow flips the on switch which kicks off MLC.
I feel it was my brains way of preventing me from total breakdown and that it hid my core person under the thick multi layered fog in order to preserve it and allow it to heal and because of my FOO issues and that my childhood trauma of my father leaving after being in his own MLC I didn’t develop the coping mechanism of an adult and so, when he died I was traumatised and had only the coping mechanism of my childhood to rely on which was an overload on my brain.

I understand the reason for wanting closure but I think it’s going to be a long time before you get this as I only realised the importance of this to my ex h after reading and answering questions from LBSers.

Jack, I want more than anything for you to heal from this awful nightmare you were thrown into and I know you are a good person but understand closure may never come.
Concentrate on you Jack because the reasons for your wife’s MLC really are her issues. Let go and look to healing yourself. Don’t be a casualty of her MLC in spending time researching the reason or reasons because it will hold you back entrenched in her MLC and you deserve peace.

[Treasur]

Jack, I think ShockSis is saying something important here for all of us about healing and closure. We all hunt round for THE cause for a while....understandable...but the tough truth is that even if we could 100% pin it down, it would not change what happened that affected your life so much. Or mine. Bc we can't fix FOO issues or change someone else's hormone levels or make them healthy and happy. So if we knew, what would that knowledge do that would make our lives better really?  All we can do is deal with the collateral damage the best we can, for ourselves and for others like your dear daughter, and if we are minded to do so pray that some day our ex/spouses may reach the point that ShockSis has and some of those answers may come. It isn't fair at all that we did not cause this but still it is our responsibility to find a way to heal and rebuild regardless, I know, but it is how it is.

[Jackolar12]

Thank you Shockandawe for understanding my situation it means so much to me. Few understand my pain, I don’t understand it my self to be honest. I have tried to move on and forget about things but nothing works. I try daily to increase my knowledge in an attempt to gain a greater understanding of life. I’m sorry if my questions made some uncomfortable it was not my intention but I can see others points of view and will keep the subject of my concerns to my self and private studies. It would be nice to experience inner peace again, to feel whole and happy.

Looking back I can’t see any Foo issues my former wife had, she never mentioned any to me and she wasn’t perfect but she was perfect for me, I was deeply in love with her and any faults she had were brushed aside as part of her and I could live with them. Being abandoned by her has cut so deeply into my soul I can’t see it ever healing to be honest, there’s just this empty void that I can’t fill.

Looking back at the markers I felt she was depressed and as we were in the process of expanding the business we were both super busy. I asked her this out of concern but she said she was fine. She had an older sister and two older brothers that considered her the runt of the litter which upset me as she was wonderful, perhaps I was blind ....

Regarding the traumatic event she did have a head on collision while picking up my son and they were both lucky to walk away with their lives. The vehicle was fairly new and all air bags, and crumple zones  deployed, thank you Mr Toyota. I wonder if this was a contributing factor she did seem a bit odd at the time but I put that down to shock and trauma.

 Another thing I thought about was her carrying on behind my back and her traumatising her self by breaking her vows. My youngest daughter mentioned about breaking a sacred vow, unprompted by me and totally out of context with our conversation. So many wierd things have happened it’s bizarre.

I’ve got a theory about the fog and it’s origins I’m musing over at the moment. It’s to do with the limbic system and amygdala dis regulation and altered perceptions.I’m not sure if I will post it but I haven’t made my mind up as yet. Perhaps private email with like minded people would be better as people like to jump in I find and it gobbles up your time answering them and they don’t really grasp the context of your questions in the first place.

It’s the not knowing the truth of the matter is killing me, it is consuming my thoughts and invading my dreams even now years later. I just can’t shake it out of my head. I suppose it’s the injustice of it all I can’t accept. I have found this site to be helpful and populated with like minded people who have walked in my shoes. People like yourself bring a smile to my lips and I feel of some worth and belonging again.

Thank you again for your understanding an thoughtful reply it is much appreciated by me.
Kind regards
Jack

[OldPilot]

Hi Anon, I suggest these figures are more inline at this time. It’s more prolific than people can imagine, it’s growing, women are leading the way and there’s just not enough education out there.
Jack

“By age 50, even more women than men are reporting a turbulent midlife transition -- 36.1% of women, compared with 34% of men -- according to research by Elaine Wethington, a Cornell University associate professor, based on a subset of the giant 6,432-person MacArthur Foundation "Midlife in the United States" study of Americans' well-being at midlife.

Applying the findings to the 42-million-member generation of U.S. women who are nearing or in middle age, defined as about 38 to 55 years old, more than 15 million women will have, or are already having, what they regard as a midlife crisis -- about equal to the entire populations of Colorado, Massachusetts and Minnesota combined.”

Hey Jack

I think this post is pretty much what I have found in my research on this subject.

So as you have found out some women think that menopause is just nothing at all but a blip on the radar screen.
Others find it very turbulent.

This all applies to men and andropause also.
I went through a trying time in my 40's that I can look back on and see that it was the start of my andropause.

It did not get me divorced but maybe that contributed to my ex wifes issues that caused me to end up here.

Anyways I have split off this to a separate discussion and I might even participate if I have time.

[Whyus]

Hi Treasure, your right in all ways regarding moving on and acceptance. It is what it is as you say. I just haven’t achieved it as yet and I don’t know how to. I guess I will have to go on living with this heavy weight on my shoulders until I find something that works.
Kind regards
Jack

Im going to get shot down again for this but hey, it is what it is.
Im sorry mate but I feel as though its time for a friendly 2x4 (its not just aimed at you personally, you just got in the way).
Your never going to move on because your thinking About MLC, Menapause, Growing old, Reasons for the MLC 24/7.
Your W has left the building, so has mine and many other XWs and XHs form amazing LBSs. They chose OP over us for firetruck knowa whatever reason but they did and we are history. They are GONE MATE and they wont be coming back. Fog or not, it doesnt matter. Gone is gone and they have no right coming back and expecting us all to forgive and forget, we didnt even get an apology or a reason did we!
Its not like they spilt milk or bumped the car whilst reversing into the garage! We know what they did and nobody or nothing can make that right again.
Shocks sisters XH may have made a bad desicion in getting too involved and having a child with his new wife too soon but basically he did the right thing. He got the firetruck away from her because she was a monster flying over the planet just to firetruck her OM! She would have destroyed him and he just tried to protect himself as well as he could. There is no hiding behind the fog as its BS! They know and they have control of their actions, WE ARE NOT A PLAN B FOR A FAILED "GRASS IS GREENER ACTION"!

Accept acceptance. Its a simple choice, just do it or your going to be asking the same questions 10 from now.

I posted this on "Shocks sis recovered MLCer 11" but it got taken off put on here. It was not About Menopause and not meant for that thread. Nice, freedom of speece and all.

[marvin4242]

Jack: I don’t know your full story, I will definitely try to look back in the posts and find your thread (if there is one). I am sorry you find yourself in so much pain, and I think all of us can relate to the feeling that a part of us has been torn out.

From everything I know and my experience it is very common when we are confronted with the irrational to try to find some “reason,” something we can place our finger on, an explanation, someone/something to blame. And I think it comes from us wanting to feel like we have some kind of control. It is one of the hardest things to accept that there are things that we have no control over. And having the person you shared your life with blow it all up and be in pain is definitely one of those experiences.

As others have said this can be counterintuitive but trying to “understand” may actually prevent healing and moving on. Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying it will all go away, and that you will happily move on, etc. In fact just yesterday I was saying out loud during therapy that I know this will be with me for the rest of my life. Not the immediate pain and deep sorrow, not the feeling that all is lost. But the experience, the sadness, some feelings of loss and what may have/should have been.

But the truth is we have no control over many things. This is frightening maybe, but once we realize that it can also be freeing. We just get to choose what we do today, and we get to plan for how we want to live our days going forward. Sometimes trying to find out what happened is rooted in trying to control what happened or to make sure it never happens again. But I find that leads to a form of rigidity that prevents healing and the flexibility to enjoy life as it happens. Most of us here won’t have the life we wanted to have before the MLC explosion, but we can choose to have another life that suits us and find a new contentment, but it starts with letting go of ruins and trying to examine every thing that was destroyed and why.

Hope that makes some sense.

[OldPilot]

I posted this on "Shocks sis recovered MLCer 11" but it got taken off put on here. It was not About Menopause and not meant for that thread. Nice, freedom of speece and all.

You can blame me - it looked like you were posting to Jack and not SS.
And I had just moved his discussion here.

[Treasur]

Hi Treasure, your right in all ways regarding moving on and acceptance. It is what it is as you say. I just haven’t achieved it as yet and I don’t know how to. I guess I will have to go on living with this heavy weight on my shoulders until I find something that works.
Kind regards
Jack

Im going to get shot down again for this but hey, it is what it is.
Im sorry mate but I feel as though its time for a friendly 2x4 (its not just aimed at you personally, you just got in the way).
Your never going to move on because your thinking About MLC, Menapause, Growing old, Reasons for the MLC 24/7.

Accept acceptance. Its a simple choice, just do it or your going to be asking the same questions 10 from now.

I didn't either, jack.
I fell over, over and over again. But sometimes something stuck and then the next time I got up just a bit quicker or easier.
WhyUs is right about acceptance bc all any of us can donis live in the grace of the day and where we are right now. Tomorrow might be different, but this is where we are.
Which then means deciding how much we want to live and feel differently than we do right now. Which is a very personal choice imho...sometimes grief sticks bc it is also a connection of a kind I think. And it sounds as if part of you is still grieving?

I didn't know what to do at all so I was stuck for a long time. I got good advice which I couldn't or wouldn't act on. And then, for whatever reason, I didn't want to feel how I felt so I tried different things. From skydiving to IC to prayer to planting roses to walking to learning more about lots of different things. Most didn't work...but a few did a bit. And then a bit more.
The turning point for me truly was when I was just desperate to not feel how I felt...to live how i was living bc it wasn't really living. The things I had learned suggested EMDR might help in my case but it was really just another bit of trial and error. But it did...or it did and I I was ready to feel better too. Since then, it has been a lot of hard work but a lot of feeling myself shift internally...like magic tbh. Am I unscarred by what happened? No. Will I ever understand it? Not really. Do I have those 'gulp' moments of sorrow or disbelief, or when I just wish I could chat to my h as I knew him? Yes, I do. I never would have chosen this for us or for me...but I did eventually choose to want to live again regardless.

What helps you, jack?
And what doesn't?
Important questions for all LBS trying to heal I think...but the answers may be different.

Oh and on the menopause issue.
I don't see it as contributing to MLC per se but I think it can contribute to depression for some women I have known. Not necessarily just hormonal but the psychological issues of no longer being able to bear children or sometimes the physical issues of things like fibroids or overwhelming hot flashes affecting your sleep say. My mother certainly suffered in peri-menopause and did go through a brief patch of depression. I got the LBS gift of suddenly going into menopause the month after BD, maybe a stress reaction, so if I had any memopause stuff going on, it got drowned by the s$itstorm going on around me