Author Topic: My Story Alvin's 5th: Ghost love score  (Read 3351 times)

Offline Standing Strong

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My Story Re: Alvin's 5th: Ghost love score
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2019, 05:15:15 AM »
Alvin,

HaHa!!!! Yes!  ;D

I know exactly what this is like, going thru that too (well, sorta... counting the days still my time off at Christmas).

Have you got the "Stop being so hard on yourself, you're just a man... a human" thoughts too?

The strong have to relax and let out a breath too.

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline AlvinTheMakerTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Alvin's 5th: Ghost love score
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2019, 11:04:17 AM »
Have you got the "Stop being so hard on yourself, you're just a man... a human" thoughts too?

I'm way past those thoughts. The gates of damn are all open, and all of it is coming through grace right now.  Very raw/unfiltered, very powerful, but also 'purifying'...   Possibly the words "come cover me" say it best.

Possibly the only thing creating confusing thoughts is that  at times  I feel VERY strongly connected with my "inner feminine side"...  It is hard to explain (especially since men VERY rarely talk/share of our inner feminine side). But maybe Jung was right about the Anima & Animus  (or God & Goddess) within us all...  Combine Mother Mary, Gaia, Phoenix etc. and you get the goddess within me. She's always been there, but never this powerful.  The masculine side of me does not feel threatened, just confused how strong and powerful it can be....  anyway, you can now call in the men in white-coat, LOL.
 
Alvin
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
Me: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
Kids (at time of BD): G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

*** Every person on the planet is like you - a human being, most likely doing the best they can. Some are just more in control of themself than others ***
*** There are things you control and things you can't control, but what you can control is your attitude towards things you can't control. ***
*** “Rivers know this: There is no hurry, we shall get there some day.” ***
**** Security is mostly a superstition...Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ****

Offline AlvinTheMakerTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Alvin's 5th: Ghost love score
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2019, 02:16:54 PM »
Journaling a bit more ...

I'm sure I'm not the first nor last LBS to have a weak moment. I watched a very touchy movie (Wish I Was Here) with G15, and eventually sent W a very simple message "sweet dreams. I love you. Thanks for all the good things you have brought to my life"... Few minutes later W replied "Sweet dreams. And thanks. You too have brought good, thanks for all of it".

Despite the situation, I think it is still important, possibly even good for my own healing from time to time say aloud the most essential.

Alvin
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
Me: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
Kids (at time of BD): G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

*** Every person on the planet is like you - a human being, most likely doing the best they can. Some are just more in control of themself than others ***
*** There are things you control and things you can't control, but what you can control is your attitude towards things you can't control. ***
*** “Rivers know this: There is no hurry, we shall get there some day.” ***
**** Security is mostly a superstition...Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ****

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Alvin's 5th: Ghost love score
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2019, 07:00:59 PM »
Very good Alvin  ;D

Sometimes they can break thru and say that. Super good that's in her.

How do you feel after she said that back?

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline AlvinTheMakerTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Alvin's 5th: Ghost love score
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2019, 10:24:22 PM »
Very good Alvin  ;D

Sometimes they can break thru and say that. Super good that's in her.

How do you feel after she said that back?

-SS

What I felt....

Confused... I expected an informal good night/sweet dreams. Nothing more.This was more (of WTF/something).

And wistful. Responding with 'thank you' to 'I love you'  says it all... She's still running, avoiding of expressing her emotions,  trying to be kind and polite in every way ... "I appreciate how you feel, but I don't feel the same way. Not now, possibly never.". That would have been the adult way of responding... 

Oh well, at least she tried to be nice.But back to oven she must go...

Alvin
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
Me: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
Kids (at time of BD): G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

*** Every person on the planet is like you - a human being, most likely doing the best they can. Some are just more in control of themself than others ***
*** There are things you control and things you can't control, but what you can control is your attitude towards things you can't control. ***
*** “Rivers know this: There is no hurry, we shall get there some day.” ***
**** Security is mostly a superstition...Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ****

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Alvin's 5th: Ghost love score
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2019, 06:47:10 AM »
I'm not sure....... mine struggles with "I love you" too...... once I a while I will get one back, never of her own accord.... but I get the "Thank you" to ILU also (sometimes).
Mostly the reaction from her is "Why???" and "How can you love me??" (last night she told me that she is "unlovable"). Other times I watch her face, and she starts thinking deep: trying to search her emotions and realizing how confused they are. I think our love makes them happy, and then they try to reciprocate and .... studder studder studder.... misfire misfire misfire.... then all I get is a smile, happiness, maybe a giggle and then silence.

I just wouldn't be too confused...... she tried, and that sounds like a lot from her.
She shoots, she misses... but she throw he ball in the air..... that's BIG progress.  :D

A good moment Alvin  ;D

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline AlvinTheMakerTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Alvin's 5th: Ghost love score
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2019, 10:54:39 AM »
Uh,you too get the "I'm unlovable" speeches..  I think it's the best metric for my W's mental health.  As long as as she thinks/talks something like that, she's mentally unwell.

But I think the questions "Why?" and "How can you love me" are very valid ones, and I have tried to explain to her that for me it all comes down to beliefs. Very long time ago, way before I met her, I have made myself an promise, oath, to love my spouse to day I die, no matter what. It is one of those things that remains unbreakable..    That said, what MLC/LBS experience has made me realize is that love does not require marriage or living with that person or limiting it to just one person.   They are just part of "gift" that comes with reprocical love... So if she got killed by falling meteor, I could still love her memory but fall in love with another person.... Or if she decides to ditch the good ole Alvin,  I will not stand and await forever for her to come back, but carry my love towards her in my heart and move on with my life, hopefully falling in love with with somebody else. etc etc. 

Speaking of trying... W and I had a talk of that today... I reminded her that it's been 3 weeks since she's worked the "fear ladders".   And she still hasn't answered some questions I asked previous weekend . And then I told this kind of behaviour offends/hurts me more than the fact  that she would say straight "I'm not interested/I'm busy/or something similar". That I feel shame and guilt over the fact that I have to remind her like a teenager if I want some of these things to move forth.  And then I simply asked her how would she solve the issue in a way that I could start treating her like equal.

Apparently my message did hit a nerve, as she came up with lengthy reply (in her modern standards)..  She said she tries, but I never notice the things she does (which I could interpret that I should possibly encourage and compliment her more often on success)... And that she tries to work with self-care (eat-sleep-excercice), with varying success.  And she's feeling frustration as whenever she feels she has succeeded, I have already moved forth to next thing.  She said she tries, she wants to try, but she's not certain what if anything comes out of it all...   And she acknowledged she MIGHT have "some kind of mental exhaustion" that is making her move slower than normally. 

Oh, and she cooked lunch for the family today. She said she thought I would like it for a change (as I cook almost daily)...

Progress?  Yep... Or like you wrote.... She shoots, she missess. But she throws the ball in the air....

Alvin
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 10:59:23 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
Me: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
Kids (at time of BD): G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

*** Every person on the planet is like you - a human being, most likely doing the best they can. Some are just more in control of themself than others ***
*** There are things you control and things you can't control, but what you can control is your attitude towards things you can't control. ***
*** “Rivers know this: There is no hurry, we shall get there some day.” ***
**** Security is mostly a superstition...Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ****

Offline Standing Strong

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Re: Alvin's 5th: Ghost love score
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2019, 07:56:48 AM »
That's great Alvin,

You are helping move her forward. Sounds like she is trying to follow you.
It's maddeningly slow...... but I'm so glad you're seeing her attempts.

It's a little scary isn't it? Like what happens if they give up and quit?
Actually, I think they quit all the time, and after sitting and sulking they get up again. Just like a little kid trying to walk for the first time.
Like a little kid they need someone holding their hand and a lot of praise.... and then they want to do it themselves. They walk to you and then wander off to whatever catches their eye. LOL!!!!
Also like a little kid they keep checking to see if we're there, and want to be able to call on us if they run into trouble.

Not fair, but that's life.

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline AlvinTheMakerTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Alvin's 5th: Ghost love score
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2019, 04:28:02 AM »
True, the process is painfully slow...

And true. She is behaving to a degree  like small child, but the harsh reality is that she is and should be a grown adult woman. But I can see / understand that she's not mentally well and kind of 'stuck'... Which of course begs the question am I supporting her recovery, or am I enabling her bad behaviour.   There is a very fine line in between... I've been digging through some of the old depression related material and notes I have from her previous depressive periods, and then I've read some websites (as this is clearly a different version of the beast than before).... All in all the advice given is not far from RCR's recommendations: 

Supporting:
* Take care of yourself. That is best you can do - for yourself, for your family, for your partner
* Admit you cannot fix or heal them, you can only love and provide support/care.  The rest is their responsibility
* Try to stay on same team  - you are fighting common enemy even if they don't know/agree
* Don't take anything they say personally (2nd rule of Don Miguel Ruiz) - it is their disease talking and doing all the crazy stuff
* Find right balance and distance.  Being too supportive and loving (or distant) will keep them stagnant. Being too pushy and demanding (or close) can lead to conflict and withdrawal
* Listen, but don't fix.  Just validate their personal pain, mirror their words,  and build trust
* Discuss topics they see as the problem, but don't let them ruminate or bash on you. If they start ruminating or bashing, distract talk to other venues or disengage.
* Show patience and grace and forgiveness like ever before - because of their own pain, they will hurt you time and again in ways you never imagined
* Show empathy and compassion like never before - they are hurting in ways they cannot describe
* Engage them towards healing stuff (take them for a walk or outdoors, excercice with them, eat well together, make sure they get enough rest etc)
* Gently push and encourage them towards professional help and healing stuff every now and then
* Encourage positive future (feelings can and will change over time, this too shall pass etc)
* Encourage uplifting activities - watch comedies together, go dining together, spend time as family, reach out to friends
* Encourage baby steps, notice even tiniest improvements and let them know you see them
* Don't hide (cover, lie etc) situation from family and friends - it just feeds the shame and guilt on the long run
* Identify common ground/goals that you can work together, and then make those goals happen
* Reach out to them - Ask how to make their day better etc. Shame and guilt makes them withdraw, be pro-active in rebuilding
* Help them to stay active and around the people that truly love them
* Lead by example / be the lighthouse (eat well, enjoy and embrace life, keep going with your life)
* BE unconditional love (by doing stuff above)

Basically a lot of this falls down to ARK (Acts of Random Kindness), or "paving the way"....   Besides being supportive, the only thing LBS can really work is our own well being and our own pain.  Maybe the irony of all this  is that most LBS are not able to be well, to support them fully as long as  we have to carry our own pain.  Which easily puts LBS into catch-22 (I admit being slightly 'stuck' witht his - but I acknowledge it is  issue that I have to work through all on my own, without her, and I've got a "plan"). 

Things that enable and potentially worsen the condition: 
* Open confrontations (adding guilt, shame etc)
* Avoidance of talks of difficult topics
* Allowing bad behaviour (momstering, ruminating etc)  and bad thinking (self-bashing, hopelesness, sticking to same old day after day) patterns
* Making excuses, letting them not take responsibility of their actions
* Letting them isolate (being alone, apart of family, bury to work, hook up with new friends)
* use of substances / addictions

And especially with depression related material there is a warning of "tough love".... With mental ilness rock bottom often times means suicide. Abandonment and other tough love methods can lead to addictions and finally into suicide...   Which made me realize, that I have read a lot of stories of MLCrs ruining the life of LBS, often times their own lives too....  But apart of few times I don't really recall suicide stories (fortunately)...   Mayo clinic study states that with depressed people suicide rate is 2-9% (whereas with mentally healthy it is 1%)... Anyway, it is definitely something to ponder.


Journaling...  The other night (after W had acknowledged that I don't notice/acknowledge her trying), I shared part of my private journal with her...   She said she was stunned by the words I had written. She had no idea I did notice her trying, and what it sparked in me  (I had written "I notice less frustration in her, can a man ask more than their loved one does and feels bit better"), because when she looks at me all she sees is mostly "grumpy"....  And no, I did not even start explaining to her that the world we see is mostly about our perception.  If we expect somebody being "grumpy", then we will see "grumpy" no matter what.... That is lesson she needs to learn on her own.   

Last night we watched Zookeeper (starring Kevin James), and there was this piece where animals started helping Zookeeper to chase this woman she was attracted. And the animals then explained how pheromones etc. worked with animals and humans... Anyway, I told W about customer of mine who's selling pheromon candles and suggested W maybe we should try that (instead of peeing all over, LOL). And to my surprise - she agreed....   This morning day I sent her a small note where I told how happy her willingness to try the candles made me (I'm not having expectations).. I don't know if small positive notes like this have any affect on big scale of things, but I think they are part of "I notice you did something positive" communication that she feels is  lacking. They require nothing of me except what it takes to write a short note.

And last night she asked a small service from me...  Her laptop needed a program, and she asked if I could install it...  Theoritically she has all the required knowhow etc. to do it on her own, but maybe she was feeling tired, or maybe she wanted to test the waters... Anyway, it was nothing away from me, and I did it for her. 

One day at a time. No expectations, just huge bunch of love, grace and good will.

Alvin
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 05:21:50 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
Me: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
Kids (at time of BD): G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

*** Every person on the planet is like you - a human being, most likely doing the best they can. Some are just more in control of themself than others ***
*** There are things you control and things you can't control, but what you can control is your attitude towards things you can't control. ***
*** “Rivers know this: There is no hurry, we shall get there some day.” ***
**** Security is mostly a superstition...Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ****

Offline AlvinTheMakerTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Alvin's 5th: Ghost love score
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2019, 09:45:14 AM »
Journaling...

This piece is  more "eyes on MLCr" update than about me  But I think this might provide some "perspective" what goes on inside the head of live-in MLCr, and what it's like to live with live-in.

Last night I dug deeper and read about enabling and enablers, especially when it comes to mental health conditions. Let me say it is pretty scary stuff. A "love trap" you might say as it is abound to happen only with those who love "too much".  I might even go to lengths of saying enabling is the twisted sister of fixing.... I can see some of it in me and my behaviour, and I think it has to go. I don't know if it means I have to create boundaries, or if I just simply "stop doing" some of the stuff I do for her.   

Anyway, I decided to poke the sleeping beast a bit, listen what she thinks about this topic. I asked W how she feels - am I enabling too much for her, am I too kind for her (my personal prejudice is that I am enabling to some extend).

I used her sleeping cycle as example (I let her sleep as late as she wants on weekend mornings, allowing her not to experience the natural consequences of having early bird husband and kids). Naturally she declined any enabling, saying that no matter what, she would still sleep late (good luck with that if you are all alone with kids, LOL). Then she grumbled along the lines of  "as if waking up early 5 days a week is not hard enough. Life in general is so hard".

Which took the discussion into "why and what is hard" territory, and then came one of big surprises (which as hindsight might explain a lot of her thinking/behaviour)....She said she has never experienced life "too easy" apart of few times. For her life is and has been a challenge or struggle of some degree 24/7/365, year after year...  And for me it has been somewhat  carefree ride apart of the random  rough times. I think this might explain our different reactions and approach for llife and this whole thing.  She's used living like this and cannot see anything unusual with it and has no motive to enhance the situation.  For me this is "code red"  crisis, there's a fire under my behind and I want it gone ASAP.... Okey, I can now begin to understand why she's had number of depressive periods, and possibly this burnout/fatigue. 

And then she revealed her dislike when people at work  (daycare) ask "would you like to do x today...".... She just wishes her collegues would simply tell her "go and do this  now" (otherwise she says she likes it a lot)... .Maybe it's just me, but I just saw there an image of woman who runs away of thinking and decision making.... Idk, maybe this is part of the reason why some MLCrs hook up with "abusive" partners. So that would not have to think. 

It's a nutty world inside their head (even crazier than inside my head)... 

But apart of random talks like this, life has become surprisingly normal  in recent months.  We are two people living under same roof,  sleeping in different beds,  having no romantic relationship but just co-parenting and occasionally sharing some personal stuff ... There are no more arguments (she occasionially tries some kind of mini-momstering, but I don't bite at all and she then quits)...  We have some casual chatter, we watch some movies together, sometimes we have deeper talks like this (usually I kick the ball)...    IDK if this is "normal" with live-in or not.  But possibly it just displays that each case of MLC is very different, that co-living with them is possible at least on some level when/if they are not momstering.

Other stuff... I talked with G19 (again) for few hours.... She flunked her drivers test (again).   She agreed it's getting in between the ears, and she plans to keep a short break before next attempt...    Then she showed me her new nose-piercing, and asked "not to tell W".  She said she wants to see W's reaction live.   Kind of funny. Only a year back she would have likely done the opposite (told the W and watched my reaction live, LOL)....   Then she poured lots of school and health stuff.  I hear she's struggling with it all.  I'll do my best to listen and occasionally guide.

Alvin
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 10:04:16 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
Me: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
Kids (at time of BD): G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

*** Every person on the planet is like you - a human being, most likely doing the best they can. Some are just more in control of themself than others ***
*** There are things you control and things you can't control, but what you can control is your attitude towards things you can't control. ***
*** “Rivers know this: There is no hurry, we shall get there some day.” ***
**** Security is mostly a superstition...Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ****

 

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