[Thunder]

I agree!!!

[lawprofessor]

Acorn I'm sorry I haven't yet responded.  Today as I was writing my response in hopes of having a discussion, I read through the thread and was making notes when I noticed posts were being edited and or disappearing.
So I stopped investing the time in writing as there's no point if it's only going to be censored.

Today my students examined cases involving
"The act of using one's position of power in an abusive way. This can take many forms, such as taking advantage of someone, gaining access to information that shouldn't be accessible to the public, or just manipulating someone with the ability to punish them if they don't comply."

An interesting coincidence now that I think of it.

Lp

[Not Applicable]

Lp-fwiw none of the posts I edited had anything removed or changed, only typos corrected and stuff added.

That said posts clearly were removed. Now you can understand why I chose not to break off my own thread from this one. I could see exactly the derailment that would happen.

Why don't you share your thoughts with Acorn and me via pm?

[OffRoad]

OffRoad and Marvin, you both seem to have questions and comments that would be better addressed to WhyUs than me because they concern his point of view.

My question was to you, NYM. You stated that there was harmful advice out there, then gave an example that was not as I remembered Stayed or BBHELP stating it, nor did I find it harmful. So I would like to know some specific examples of what YOU consider harmful advice. Maybe some exact words that someone posted, that would be harmful.

[Songanddance]

I think it has been stated many times that Rollercoasterrider, and many people who post on HS share the opinion that reconciliation is rare.

I'm going to dispute the word "rare" here.  RCR's actual words in the quote you pull out - "most"   Rare would be the equivalent of "nearly all" which even on its own merits is not wholly clear in terms of statistics.

Reconciliation is not inevitable or a given and neither can it be controlled. Reconciliation, if and when it does take place, will work for some but not all. It's the attitude to reconciliation that counts.

To state that the odds  of reconciliation as less than 1% is not helpful to all newbies arriving at this site confused, desperate, lonely, financially affected, family in tatters etc...  This forum is to help them understand what MLC is - what they can do for themselves and what and how to live their lives as if the MLCer doesn't return so that they become whole, healthy and totally free to think and live for themselves.  Then, if the MLCer does return the LBSer is ready and able to deal with it in their own way.

To keep pushing low unsubstantiated figures can unwittingly turn this forum into a site for how to divorce with grace, energy and that's not what HS is about.  This site is about learning the choices and options all LBSers have.

Sadly most MLCers will probably not return to the marriage even after attempts to reconnect.  This is sometimes because they are just not fully through the tunnel, sometimes it's because the LBS does not want the MLCer in his/her life anymore and sometimes it's because either or both have moved on and found new lives for themselves. 

So my thoughts on whether or not looking through the MLC lens hurts or hinders...

a)  If you are being blamed for everything that goes wrong in your marriage - and you view this through the MLC lens - then you get to realize this is projection - and most likely you are not to blame.

b)  If you are being gaslighted - and you see it in context with the MLC lens then you realize you are not losing your mind.

These are example of where understanding MLC - or "looking though the mid-life crisis lens" can help.

But if you don't turn your attention to yourself - and rebuilding yourself after BD so you are a healthy happy person, and instead focus 100% on where in the tunnel your MLCer is - then it is a hindrance.

If you sequester yourself in semi-isolation on the internet - living every moment reading on this or the many other MLC forums - and fail to

- earn enough to be financially viable (assuming you need income to survive)
- protect yourself physically if you have an abusive spouse
- protect yourself legally so your MLCer doesn't squander all the assets you and your kids need to survive
- live and grow as a person (instead sitting in your cave licking your wounds endlessly) ...

This - just brilliant from Airmid.

[Whyus]

As my post got deleted yesterday I will try again. The Question is, will it recieve approval by a moderator as ive recieved my 2nd warning? I have no idea why.

There is absolutely no proof to Whyus's statement:

One or 2 LBS where the spouce are to 99,99% not Coming  back. There is a slight difference.

Just for the record as my post got deleted, xy, you didnt Quote the whole sentence. I did not say that 99.99% dont come back. The Whole sentence is Quoted below. I was refering to 1 or 2 MLCs and not all.
"I didnt say this... i said most dont come back and later refered to One or 2 LBS where the spouce are to 99,99% not Coming  back. There is a slight difference."

How many of you know personally of MLCers's who have returned? I know several.
I also know some from our town.
How many purple icons are there on this forum alone? Certainly more than "one or 2"
As you can read above, I didnt say that there were only one or two either.
Whyus refuses to believe that the crisis can end, that there can be a reconciliation. For some reason he feels it is necessary to repeat this FALSE information over and over...
I also have NEVER said this either. I have no idea where you got this from.
I am not sure why he does this but it just isn't true that 99.99% don't come back.
Again, your rewriting history as I NEVER SAID THIS! If your going to Quote me the Quote the whole sentence and read it first for what it is and not how you see it through your eyes

[Acorn]

What happened to this thread? 😳
What do you mean ‘a post was removed’?
I’m guessing it had something to do with the following post? 

I didnt say this... i said most dont come back and later refered to One or 2 LBS where the spouce are to 99,99% not Coming  back. There is a slight difference.

I did not read this post as ‘99.99% are not coming back.’   
I read it as ‘Most MLCers don’t come back.  For 1 or 2 LBSs on HS, there is 99.99% chance of their spouses not coming back.’ 

If my comprehension was correct, Whyus, will you confirm? 
If not, I can always blame English not being my mother tongue. 

It’s a high time someone opened a discussion thread after having counted the number of posters for the last, say, 5 years and calculate % of 12 deep purple threads against the total.  At least we would have very unofficial and unscientific HS statistics to refer to, and that’s better than nothing. 

I’m suggesting this because the topic of ‘how many return’ pops up frequently like those cheeky dandelions on my lawn in summer.  There is obviously some psychological explanation for this phenomenon and we can all have a go at it. 

Now, back to the relevant topic!

[Treasur]

Have often mused on why someone who has access to the available data or wider community of subscribers has not done this as a research project lol. Or a structured email reach out to those who registered say 7 years ago to ask for their input on some basic info. My sense is that there are a few past posters whose spouses have 'come back' who did not go for the pink/purple option. And that 'coming back' is a broad church and a mixed bag of happy perhaps.  Maybe by the time an LBS is objective enough we no longer care about the question so much lol? And to be clear, I am not volunteering!

The link between the 'return' dandelion questions (love that description  ) is probably about some of the underpinning beliefs that sit behind the MLC lens? That there is a process with stages. That recovery means some kind of restoration of original core values, mindset and personality maybe. That the MLC version is a temporary maladaptive version not a permanent change or a release of who they truly are. That some MLCers get 'stuck' but not all do. I suspect we each might have different beliefs about some of these things and those beliefs might influence how we use the MLC lens?

If you were going to pick say three MLC lens beliefs, what would they be? Those ones where if you logically believe that MLC exists, you accept that you also believe x y and z? And how do those beliefs keep you stuck or help you?

[One day at a time]

If you were going to pick say three MLC lens beliefs, what would they be? Those ones where if you logically believe that MLC exists, you accept that you also believe x y and z? And how do those beliefs keep you stuck or help you?

Interesting question... My 3 MLC lens beliefs:
- His behavior was acceptable, he lied, cheated and abandoned me because he was having a crisis (kept me stuck because it allowed me to make excuses for his bad behavior)
- MLC will not last forever, he will wake up eventually because he still loves me, he just can't access that love right now (also kept me stuck!)
- His crisis has nothing to do with me (helped eventually to realize there was nothing I could do other than letting him go)

Having said that, personally I don't think I could have done it differently. It was a process, the MLC lens was important to me for a long time. I helped me put one foot in front of another until I got strong enough to look at things without the lens.

[Acorn]

To state that the odds  of reconciliation as less than 1% is not helpful to all newbies arriving at this site confused, desperate, lonely, financially affected, family in tatters etc...  This forum is to help them understand what MLC is - what they can do for themselves and what and how to live their lives as if the MLCer doesn't return so that they become whole, healthy and totally free to think and live for themselves.  Then, if the MLCer does return the LBSer is ready and able to deal with it in their own way.

To keep pushing low unsubstantiated figures can unwittingly turn this forum into a site for how to divorce with grace, energy and that's not what HS is about. 

I get that.  It comes from a good place.   

However, in order to encourage this:

This site is about learning the choices and options all LBSers have.

some painful aspects of MLC and it’s devastating consequences need to be told as well...

We talk about financial protection, watching against physical abuse, drawing boundaries, etc.
Should ‘a slim chance of reconciling’ be introduced at some point, or if newbies ask?  Reality check is not a bad thing.
 
‘Divorcing with grace’ may not be the worst thing for some LBSs in order to prevent further financial and egregious psychological abuse, rather than continuing to excuse MLCer’s blatant abuse by thinking ‘Oh, it’s just MLC.’  In these cases, the MLC lens needs to come off.  And, fast!

Of course, one needs to be tactful and considerate when sharing some aspects of MLC that are not suitable for newbies.  They are hurting enough already.... Timing is important. 

——————

Warning: it may cause another ‘dandelion’ to pop up. 

I grabbed some easily available info.  The only ‘number’ that I can quote.

Just going by ‘Forum Stats’ on the home page of HS Forum:

743746 Posts in 7548 Topics by 4926 Members.  (It obviously does not include the members who have never posted.)

12 deep purple thread posters divided by total 4926 posters = 0.0024

That means less than 1/4 of 1%.  (Or, 2.4 deep purple thread posters per 1000 posters.)

Note:

‘I know someone who reconciled but did not post about it’ is statistically irrelevant because there also have to be some people who did not reconcile but did not post about it either.  One effectively cancels the other one out.

In fact, because HS promotes standing and we celebrate reconciliation, the likelihood of the reconciled members sharing the fact could be greater than those who did not reconcile and did not choose to report that fact on HS.   That means even the 1/4 of 1% could be an inflated figure.