[hopeandfaith]

Hi everyone, thanks for checking in on me UM.  I didn't see your post at all 31 so I am sorry I haven't responded.  Hopefully your H moves through this need to be busy with a project and emanates a bit more inner peace?

Things continue to move slowly forward with H.  He is still renting with another couple but spends very little time there because he prefers to be here when he is not away for work.  We haven't had an R chat in a little while now and we're probably due for one.  There were a few bumpy patches over Christmas and New Year.  I saw the name of a previous ow in his snapchat list. I have referred to her as last years bit (lyb) because she featured in gaps when ow was out of the picture.  I also saw the name of another woman who I know he had kissed back in 2013 (she was a source of tension to the first ow).  I challenged H to ask why he had this "ghosts of options past' list on his snapchat and he confessed to having sent lyb a snapchat a few weeks earlier because he saw something that reminded him of her.  I took that pretty badly and told him that I felt he was putting out feelers and therefore not invested in us.  Things settled and he cleaned out his snapchat list a week or so later.  He had also been overhead having a fairly serious conversation with another woman via FaceTime who my son thought was me.  He asked me what we had been talking about because he thought he heard me say "you need to get your $h!te together". It wasn't me and I asked H about it a few weeks later when an opportunity arose.  This was the woman from 2013.  I also had a funky feeling after he flew with a female crew from another base in Dec.  Turns out that she had also expressed feelings for him.  I wouldn't have known about this one at all had H not offered info about it.  He told me that he had shut down both advances from the other female crew member and the 2013 woman.  Before this conversation, I sensed H was still hiding things because he was reluctant to talk if I wanted to talk.  Since then, he has been an open book so hopefully this debris is being cleared away.  He was obviously still giving off vibes if not more.

Christmas was challenging because D18 was very mentally unwell due to a toxic relationship.  SIL was angry that we weren't harder on D18 and H told her that he didn't give a firetruck if it was Christmas Day or not, he was going to do what he needed to do for his D.  My parents are also struggling with feeling dumped since I am spending so much time with H.  Truth be told, nothing much has changed there because I don't see them very often anyway.  They seem to have thrown their toys out of the cot a bit because they have also cancelled the catch ups that I have tried to make.  I am going to meet with my mum this Friday to hear her out because she keeps sending emotional texts but rejecting the offer to catch up to talk.  I finally had to tell her that I was sick of the one way truth darts and that we need to talk.  I am a bit nervous about it.  Mostly because I have a lot of hurt sitting in my heart that I have never shared with them so I am just empty when it comes to hearing how much I am hurting them.

New Years was excellent and it was just the 2 of us at his place.  Great talks.  Very healing.  We then went on a week long beach holiday which was really awesome.  D18 really shone when it was just the 5 of us and H seemed to glow too.  Since then, he has been on a 6 week health challenge (no drinking) which he is 4 weeks into.  He is also settling into his non-managerial life and just loving how much easier it is.  Over Christmas and New Years, he was acting in the Chief Pilot's position and it was intense given all the fires raging in Australia.  Flights were constantly being diverted, cancelled, delayed etc. It was a massive undertaking from a safety, marketing, operations viewpoint so he had to be attached to his phone with constant phone hookups with multiple parties.  Still a lot easier than a lot of other folk were facing though.  My heart goes out to all who have been affected by these fires.

I am finding that I am starting to let my guard down a little more.  I haven't been triggered since the upsets I mentioned above in Dec although there is another party that is coming up in March that we have been invited to that lyb might be attending. I am parking that particular worry until closer to the time when I will probably ring the host and ask him if she is - so that I can then make my decision from there.  The host is H's best friend and he knows the history so he would understand if I decide not to go.  He's an angel.  Without the regular triggers it seems a little easier to let some of the hurt bubble to the surface to be dealt with because I am not in a heightened state of alert now.  I just hope and pray that the triggers stay few and far between and the healing can continue.

[UrsaMajor]

Slow and steady wins the race....

And it seems that H is on the slow and steady track out of the tunnel. I do like his response to SIL regarding D19 and I would venture to guess that D19 appreciated H having her back as well.....

And, since I am such a horrible person with a reserved seat on the bus to Hades, I'd be lying if there wasn't just a little part of me thinking that you should show up to that party DESPITE LYB being there just to rub her nose in the fact that she is water under the bridge that has been sent out to sea whereas you are the real deal... But I am a wee bit vindictive in that way.... 

Here's hoping that H continues on the straight and narrow!

UM

[hopeandfaith]

And, since I am such a horrible person with a reserved seat on the bus to Hades, I'd be lying if there wasn't just a little part of me thinking that you should show up to that party DESPITE LYB being there just to rub her nose in the fact that she is water under the bridge that has been sent out to sea whereas you are the real deal... But I am a wee bit vindictive in that way.... 

This is actually the reason why I would go to the party UM - I am the one giving this woman power right now.  My hesitation is around how annoyed I could get by being in the presence of a woman who should never have been a problem for me.  Do I need that personal aggravation?  I sense it is not completely water under the bridge for her and some of these chickies just stir $h!te up when their ego's are hit.  Guess I will see which side wins out when the time comes.

[Gettingbackup]

If UM has a reserved seat on the bus to Hades, then I am the bus-driver.

This must be why I agree with him.

Just to say, it's clear you understand the power dynamics and why you should go. I just wanted to offer that if you do decide to go (which will be so hard and very brave), then you must only go from a place of undeniable strength.  You have to rock up confident and gorgeous, brimming with 'meh'. As in, 'Oh look, it's LYB. Meh...' (insert hair toss).
 
If you feel you can't do this, then don't go. She will be watching you like a hawk and there must be no chink in your armour, not the slightest - it would be a gift to her she will nurse and treasure. Part of recovery is being kind to yourself and realising you may not be ready to march into battle yet. There'll be other opportunities.

[UrsaMajor]

Well, the laws of physics state that one can't vigorously stir the turd without getting some of it on one's own hands....

And what better way to rob them of that power than to take it back yourself... or, as I like to look at it, to hand them their rear end on a silver platter..

This would, of course, be dependant on whether or not H could be counted on to act as if lyb is the pond scum which she is...

[Notinlimbo]

Hi H&F

This would, of course, be dependant on whether or not H could be counted on to act as if lyb is the pond scum which she is...

Good point Ursa. Though how about just not be flattered by attention/ignore her.
All the R talks in the world don’t make up for actions.

It’s wonderful that he has quit the drinking for the time being.

I’ve been checking on you HF. Great that you felt the time was right to question his ”other bits” and he told you had shut them down on his own (?) if I’m reading it right.

Xxx Not

[hopeandfaith]

Dang it, I just lost a whole post  ...start again.

Cheerheart, I definitely agree that I would need to go to that party from a place of undeniable strength.  I have been in a situation where I needed this sort of confidence and presence twice before and I managed to pull it off so I know I can do it and I know the result is powerful.  I don't think I am there yet with this situation though so I have decided that I don't want to go.

Ursa, in fairness, I can't really call lyb pond scum. If she betrayed any female, it would have been ow because H and I had been separated for a while before her.  I am not sure how that all played out (whether she knew about or went behind ow's back) so I won't make a judgement.  She is a temptress though.  The last "dress as a dag" party that she went to saw her turn up dressed as a kitty cat in a skin tight black lycra outfit, heels and some cute little kitty cat ears  At a previous party, her and a friend helped ruin the friendship between the party host and his friend because they both flirted outrageously with him and he had trouble cooling off when they threw water over it.  The theme of this party is "70's throwback" so I can predict with almost 100% certainty, the type of outfit she will wear.  That has a high chance of making my H just look like a cliche for having fallen for this $h!te in the past.

I have a feeling that a large part of H wouldn't want to go either.  He won't want to let his friend down but he also won't want the gossipy eyes of other party goers (mostly work mates) watching the 3 of us.  H also knows that I can sense and feel vibes and/or history between people so it could just end up dragging us into the past and inflaming past hurt.  He gets his new roster this weekend and there is a small chance that he would be working that night.  In that case, this will become a non-issue.  If he does have it off, I am going to tell him that I am going to call his friend and ask if lyb will be there.  If she will, I will explain why I won't be coming and try to arrange an alternative time to celebrate with him.  He is a beautiful man who does know the history so I am sure he will understand completely.  I will also tell H that it would mean a lot to me if he chose to celebrate with his friend at an alternative time too.

H is in ow town for 3 nights this week.  She actually lives in London now but the other 2 'options' I spoke of in the previous post live there.  Time to stretch that trust muscle.  I have no reason to believe he would be catching up with either person.  Really had to quiet the monkey's yesterday.  Fortunately, H has been in contact a lot.  We spoke 5 times before 12pm today and he answers his phone immediately if I ever call him.  He has to continue to go there, so I need to get comfortable with it.  Each time he goes and it goes well, it probably lessens the trigger.  For him, it probably re-writes history about the meaning and associations of the place.  I feel it is something we need to push through as bravely as possible without little remarks from my end.

[Treasur]

No criticism, H&F, probably just my confusion or limited understanding of your wider story....but as I guess there is a good chance that others are maybe dealing with similar things.....

How do you see your relationship right now? Do you see your h as still your h and that you are reconnecting? Albeit with some 'past/present ow ghosts' in the mix? Or separated and trying to be friends so ow/lyb are no longer your business in a way? Or a kind of open marriage practically speaking?
And how does your h say he sees it? Or is aiming for? Or is doing differently bc I think a couple of months ago he said he hadn't resolved the issues that cause him to cheat even if he has said sorry for hurting you? What's different?
What does it look like the two of you are doing from the outside or from the POV of your kids say? I think he lives elsewhere but you spend some time together?

And how ok are you right now in yourself/life bc I'm conscious that you have been on some version of this rollercoaster off and on for a few years and that must be tough?

I can completely understand the lyb party thing emotionally....I suppose it just seems that your choices are contingent on what these kind of women do and that seems a bit cart before horse perhaps? Giving lyb/ow too much influence on your life even? Or do you feel in competition somehow bc otherwise idk why her 'kitty cat ears' and behaviour at parties matters to you? How do you detach if you are focusing on where an lyb/ow might be or do.? Is that not your h's mess to clear up if he wants to reconnect with you or respect your role as his w?

I get the impression that there is a bit of social life that is strongly connected with your h's work? And one of your daughters is in the same biz? I've lived/worked in similar environments so I get that makes for messy work/life boundaries sometimes and a particular style of socialising.. Are you in the same business? Are most of your friends? Or just his and/or shared ones?

Sorry if these are stupid questions lol.
I think I'm just a bit confused and wanting to understand where you're at in order to support you in a way that feels useful and appropriate for your goals if that makes sense.

[hopeandfaith]

How do you see your relationship right now? Do you see your h as still your h and that you are reconnecting? Albeit with some 'past/present ow ghosts' in the mix? Or separated and trying to be friends so ow/lyb are no longer your business in a way? Or a kind of open marriage practically speaking?

I do still see my H as my H and that we are reconnecting.  Publicly, we call each other H and W.

And how does your h say he sees it? Or is aiming for? Or is doing differently bc I think a couple of months ago he said he hadn't resolved the issues that cause him to cheat even if he has said sorry for hurting you? What's different?
What does it look like the two of you are doing from the outside or from the POV of your kids say? I think he lives elsewhere but you spend some time together?

He has said that he wants us back as a family unit with us together as a couple.  The kids would see us as carefully reconnecting too. We agree that we are dating and as such, we wouldn't be moving in together straight away.  We have also joked about being boyfriend and girlfriend.  On some level, we are starting again. I am not sure what everybody else thinks.  I think they have given up guessing actually.  We spend a lot of time together and are open about our togetherness around everyone - work mates included.

Nothing has practically changed and if he is aware of the issues that have caused him to cheat, other than what we have already discussed, then he hasn't shared them with me.  I actually think that the 2 'options' that presented themselves, and his subsequent management of that helped give him some confidence in himself.  We are both relaxing a little which is fertile ground for a deeper level of enquiry for both of us - individually and together.  On the whole, our relationship keeps moving forward.  There always seems to be some little thing that we weren't doing a while ago that we are doing now.  He is very transparent.  We are now friends again on Find my Friends and he has shared his roster with me so that it imports directly to both of our phones instantly.

And how ok are you right now in yourself/life bc I'm conscious that you have been on some version of this rollercoaster off and on for a few years and that must be tough?

I am only just really realising now how much I have been living on high alert, regularly triggered, highly guarded and half breathing.  It became normal for me.  I do believe that I would be in a version of the place I am in personally now regardless of whether H and I were reconnecting.  It seemed that there was an inner urgency to uncover myself and pull down my guards.  To feel my feelings and to experience the world through my body.  I am a very thinky person and live in my head more than I would like to.

I can completely understand the lyb party thing emotionally....I suppose it just seems that your choices are contingent on what these kind of women do and that seems a bit cart before horse perhaps? Giving lyb/ow too much influence on your life even? Or do you feel in competition somehow bc otherwise idk why her 'kitty cat ears' and behaviour at parties matters to you? How do you detach if you are focusing on where an lyb/ow might be or do.? Is that not your h's mess to clear up if he wants to reconnect with you or respect your role as his w?

I am not sure I understood this part properly but I'll do my best .  I suppose I detach more easily when I don't walk willingly into a high trigger situation.  It/she is a reminder of a very sad time in my life and I am fortunate that even though the industry and our town ( Evermore) is seemingly small, I am not likely to have cross paths with her very often.  I may well run into her by chance and I totally rate myself to handle that like a queen.  This is different.  I totally don't care if she thinks we are avoiding her and gets some sort of satisfaction out of that or likes to think that being 20 years her senior makes me boring, dowdy or whatever.  If that were her fantasy, have at it chicky!  Even D gets a 'vibe' from her at work so the water has not yet passed under that particular bridge.  I don't want to provide any more fodder for gossip and don't want to upset myself either.  It adds nothing positive that I can see to our relationship now or in the future.

I am not sure what mess you are referring to that H has to clean up?  Beside the freakin obvious that is.

Thanks for your questions and concern Treasur.  I know that I said I want to be less thinky but your questions are good and for the greater good.  I also don't want to swing too hard the other way and start burying my head in the sand 

[Treasur]

Thanks for your patience in answering them, my friend 

Ok, so you are dating to reconnect with the shared goal of getting back together as a couple. And things feel like they are moving forward and you are seeing him be more transparent.

I guess my point about the lyb thing - and if I get you it is less about her and more that she is a representative reminder/trigger? - I suppose the trigger exists bc of your h's previous actions. If he is aware of how you feel, and presumably cares now, why not give him the responsibility of calling the party friend and dealing with it in the way you both think will be best for you both? Do you feel able to discuss it with him? Bit like clearing up after your own spilt milk as opposed to walking past and expecting someone else to get a cloth out? Just a thought....but maybe important if your h is given to avoidance?