[Treasur]

What has the reconciliation rate got to do with being stuck?

Imho bc we can create a logic chain from how we individually interpret our own MLC lens. Say MLC = temporary crisis = not real h/w = standing = return of MLCer to LBS. And what we believe about MLC and our spouse becomes a coping strategy so people can react with strong emotion if one bit is challenged? So, I might intend to have an unemotional exploration of reconciliation numbers on HS but how someone else hears it might seem like a threat to their own deep beliefs and coping strategy? Jmo.

I remember a time a while back when someone posted on my thread that they believed that RCR had said that vanishers are even less likely to return. And I felt very upset and responded a bit snippily as I recall. (Sorry to whoever the poster was) Now? I don't know if RCR said that. If she did, that's her opinion. She may be right, idk. But it no longer feels as if it is relevant to me in the way that it did then bc with time and events I have formed my own beliefs and assumptions....so I don't have an emotional reaction to it if that makes sense. The opinion doesn't feel like a threat. Nor does say a possibly less than 1% reconciliation recorded rate on HS although my senosation from obsessive archive reading at one stage (ha ha, you know some of you did that too lol)  is that it might be a little higher in RL if you measure that as MLCers trying to return and LBS giving it a cautious go. Quite a few threads end with 'well, my h wants to come back so we are going to try'. But by quite a few, idk, that might bump 1% to 2% maybe? The simple truth is it is an unknowable figure....we can probably all agree that it is very low though and for a variety of reasons. Reading the debate, like Air, I was also reminded of my experience of cancer statistics. And that people react differently to them too.

Perhaps we don't all see the details of the MLC lens in the same way? Or we interpret it differently in our own situation? So some believe perhaps that stories of reconnection can narrow down the things an LBS can do to increase the odds of it; others think that nothing an LBS does makes much difference to that at all.

But I susoect that what you believe tends to shape your actions and therefore what you believe is part of getting stuck or not for most of us. And to be fair, probably shapes the advice or support you want to give on HS too.

I think the key to me getting myself unstuck....and how very stuck I was, like Queen of Stuck  ....was looking hard at what I believed, why and how it served me in the present moment. And changing some of what I believed and in other cases saying that I just didn't know so would act based on a best assessment from what I did know.

[Whyus]

If you really want to be honest with newbies you should tell them to forget about reconciliation. That isn't what this forum is here for. The purpose of this forum is to help people transition to a new life without the MLCer.
Brain, nobody is saying this. Nobody wants to tell anybody that they dont have a Chance of Reconciliation or that they shouldnt stand. Its just that the Facts should fairly be laid out on the table because unfortunately alot of LBS still believe that most, if not all will eventually come back if you just hang in there Long enough and sit it out. That simply isnt true and lets be honest with ourselves, most MLCers make it quite inpossible for us to sit it out as the Damage they cause is just too much to repair.

Why is the first Thread already been moved to the Archives? It took me quite some time to find it and catch up on the last 3-4 pages. This isnt the normal process so why is this Topic being treated differently? Its just a healthy discussion imho.

[Acorn]

Sorry, Whyus,  I should have done it myself rather than relying on the mods. 

Here is the link for anyone interested in the previous thread:

   https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11236.0

[Songanddance]

Then if we include the light purple I think there are 16 additional threads as well as Songanddances threads that she has since changed from light purple to the standard white if I remember correctly.

No I haven't changed back to white at all. Still light purple and still reconnecting just not updated for some time.

In fact the figures are distorted as there are only 2010 people who have actually posted on this forum at all.

This means that there are at least 2500 members of whom we have no idea if they are active or not, white, light purple, dark purple or divorced.   So as you can see it is not a case of 0.6% across the whole board of 4296 members.

 As a further point, if we remove those posters who have only posted between 1 and 3 times since registering (and this does include going back to 2010) that takes us to  1650 active posters.   1500 of those 1650 have posted more than 5 times since registering and 1334 out of the 1650 have posted more than 10 times; 1248 15 posts or more and 1130 who have posted more than 20 times. 

So the statistics about reconciliation odds on here changes upon the paremeters you give it.  28 (+Shantilly's lot) out of 1130 is different from 28+ out of 4296. 

It's a bit like saying that out of the millions of car owners in the UK a certain percentage have accidents.  Not all of those owners can drive and some owners may have more than one car. Equally there are many people out there who drive who do not own cars - they lease them or they are company cars. 

Bear in mind too that MLC takes anything between 3 - 5 years for replay alone let alone the added time for liminality, limbo and reconnecting let alone reconciliation and rebuilding (so the whole process could take upto 8 or more years)  and therefore, by those figures, this forum which started on 2010 and is 9 yrs on, statistically may have more reconnections and reconciliations pending. 
It's all hypothetical of course but we cannot state that there is only a 0.6% of reconciliation based on this forum alone.  Too many variables. 

The threads list is of those who hold a current thread but there are quite a few including Stayed, STP etc who have reconciled who do not have an active thread or even an inactive thread. Not to mention Hyperglad and a few others who reconciled and who no longer post or visit here.

Shantilly's thread has at least 10 people who have reconnected but no longer post but most of those if memory serves me well have reconciled.

There are currently 11 active dark purple threads and 17 light purple threads including my own.

[Thunder]

Whyus,

After a thread is locked it is put in Archived, nothing has changed.
You can find the thread by the "new thread" link on the first page of the new thread.
It's put on every new thread so you can still go back and read it.   

[terrified_in_TN]

I think we are getting a little TOO caught up in the numbers.  I have to go back and agree with Redstar a bit...you just can't get accurate results.  Too many factors going into it.

HOWEVER, no matter how you twist the numbers, I think its a fairly accurate statement to say that less MLCers reconcile than those that don't.

Sondanddance, not to nitpick, but STP has most DEFINITELY NOT reconciled.  And he DOES maintain an active thread.  But some may find its content a bit...unpleasant.

-T

[Songanddance]

Terrified - thanks for that.

I deliberately got bound up in numbers because it is not productive to claim statistics when as you say there are too many factors and I wanted to show what those factors were and how they change. It was an interesting ,if not ,mind numbing exercise.....

Thanks for info on STP - perhaps he's the one that changed his icon and not me as Airmid thought. Even so it still makes no difference to my point.

[Not Applicable]

Even if those stats were 10% and backed up by scientific research, I would suppose that the same people would have the same reaction to those stats. Some people are threatened by those who don't get the same results they want or who need the validation of those who got the same results they want, and there are others who can look at them in a detached manner. No matter what the stats are as long as the prognosis looks bad overall, it will be the same.

[Mortesbride]

The MLC lens makes excuses and keeps hope alive.

In the meantime it's not going to prevent me from enjoying life.

I wasted too many years focused on her crisis.
…. and later...

The MLC labelling protects what this person has become.

I am enabling her myself by not holding her accountable and always chalking it up to MLC.

She is an abuser and unfortunately I have to vieew her as such until the day comes when her actions say different.

I think what Watcher said here is really important. The MLC lens can keep people stuck. Surrounded in rainbows and hope and dare I say a small amount of delusion at times. All your empathy and love and perseverance and determination are focused...on withstanding the MLC storm. If you are patient enough, if you are strong enough, if you are kind enough, if you smile and put up with enough... you will be rewarded. But really all those things should be focused back on yourself. Because in the end...reconciliation or moving on...the only person you will be left with is yourself. No matter what happens with your MLCer.

So yes if you let it...viewing it through an MLC lens can keep many people stuck.




As for

This topic has really bothered me. If you're dealing with somebody who is going through an MLC, how can it be relevant to view it through any lens other than the MLC lens? If the MLC is ongoing, how could continuing to view the situation through the MLC lens mean that you're stuck? It's still an MLC.

Then I realized what my problem is. It's as if I left home and when I returned I found that a new family with different values had moved in. This is no longer a support site for people who are standing for their marriage. Even the tagline mentioning standing has been removed from the Banner. This site has become much like all of the other divorce sites. There is no longer anything special about it. The thing that made it unique, support for standers, has been discarded. I should have realised that when I read Airmid's derisive comment about standers on the first thread.

If you really want to be honest with newbies you should tell them to forget about reconciliation. That isn't what this forum is here for. The purpose of this forum is to help people transition to a new life without the MLCer.

The part in italics feels almost like a virtual temper tantrum if I am honest. People are allowed to have different stances. They are allowed to feel differently, and even to change their mind when they get new information. Personally I think it is better to have more information available so that people can make an informed choice about their life.

Newbies should be allowed support, and hope...they should be allowed to feel that there is a chance their spouse can come through this, no matter how big or small...but they should also be given realistic information. On what their chances are so they can make logically informed decisions about their life.

As for the bold part none of us REALLY know what our spouse is going through. Sure they fit the lines of MLC, but some fit the lines of other things. We can't possibly know until ''it'' ends...assuming that ''it'' does end. So it can be HIGHLY relevant to look at our spouse through many different lenses. Only looking through it from one vantage point is not only silly but dangerous. If you have someone with bipolar and refuse to see the signs because it ''has to be MLC'' then you are doing a disservice to yourself. If your spouse has always been a cheater, and you decide to look at it through the MLC lens, well again..you are just setting yourself up to produce hope that it will end, when the reality is it is a pattern of behaviour you have seen before and maybe chose to overlook for love.

Imo, looking through the MLC lens can help, hinder or both. It depends on what you do with that MLC lens. And for some it is a help, for some it was a help for whatever amount of time, for some it was a hindrance  and for some it's still a hindrance. You can miss someone and not dwell on it. You can want someone back and not stop your life until they come back.

IMO, if you can't think of anything except your MLCer, you are stuck, even if you are standing, even if you still love them. Obsession isn't healthy for anyone.

I agree with everything you said here Offroad.

Any information is only as valuable or powerful as we let it be. But without information you are ignorant and your choices are limited or removed.

[nah]

Beautiful post MB!