Author Topic: My Story Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis  (Read 1374 times)

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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My Story Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« on: December 02, 2019, 01:10:32 PM »
Hi All,

First, my stats:
M: 47
W: 43
S 18, S11
T: 25 years
M: 20 years
Bomb drop: 7/3/19
Trial separation since 7/26/19

I have been with W since 1994. Married since 1999. We have two great kids, and all the usual great memories of your average American middle class couple/family.

W was stomping around angry in early July and I said. "Let's get out of the house and talk about what's bothering you." She proceeded to give me the ILYBINILWY speech. "I've changed." "I've felt this way for a while." "I don't know what I want." "I don't feel any connection." Classic MLC jargon.

Over last 18-20 months, I've seen her get a new car, 2 new tattoos, get a whole new group of friends who she met at her new gym in her hometown. Oldest child graduated high school in June and headed off to college at end of August. She has been staying with one of her friends (female) from the gym since late July. She runs a daycare out of our house, so I do see her most days during the week. Kids aren't aware of exactly what's going on, as she leaves after S11 goes to bed and is here in the morning before S11 wakes up, most days.

What was our marriage like? What were our issues? Pretty typical I'd say. Inconsistent communication. Focused too much on the kids. Less time in the bedroom as the years wore on. Basically grew apart as time passed.

Since BD, I have lost 45 lbs., been working out regularly, going out on my own much more. Generally trying to be open and friendly with no R talk when I see her. There is zero physical contact at all since August. Aside from that, an outsider wouldn't think anything was up if he saw us interact.   

We did 3 sessions of MC, but she was just looking to have her decision to D verified for her. At our final MC session, I turned to her and said, "I'm letting you go. You have said repeatedly that are not and can not be happy in this marriage, and I want you to be happy. You need to move on." MC told me afterwards that W had a shocked look on her face when I said that. Wife is also still in IC (pro-divorce female therapist).

We have had 2 brief, amicable talks about custody and the house. For someone who says she needs to dump me to be happy, she sure isn't moving too quickly. I am not going to do the heavy lifting here, no matter how much I want to be done with limbo. Lastly, while it's unproven, yes, I'm assuming there is an OM in the picture.

How should I proceed? Tough love? Friendly roommate? Impossible to tell what she's thinking in her crazy MLC mind.

Feedback welcomed!





 




 







Online Standing Strong

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2019, 01:21:52 PM »
Hey M&W,

Sound like you're doing really good. Calm, not in a panic...... so you've gotten thru all that. Very good.

Since she's moved out already, yeah.... not too much to see eh?

Has she leveled out, or still descending?

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2019, 01:28:16 PM »
Hi SS,

I'd say she's certainly closer to leveled out than still descending. Things have moved along and maybe she is squarely stuck on which way to go now? At times, I feel like it has to end to create a loss for her to have to endure. IDK.

Online Standing Strong

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2019, 02:05:21 PM »
Hey M&W,

Leveling out is good.... so how does she treat you right now? Is she hard in avoidance still? Or are you furniture (a set piece) at the moment?
Does she engage at all? Is your presence something she can't handle or finds uncomfortable?

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2019, 02:44:17 PM »
SS,

The times we are together, we make friendly small talk. Less avoidance than right after BD, though she's not looking to hang out. I guess I'd say I'm a piece of furniture that she speaks to when she's around. Everything is friendly, never any yelling, etc. "Please." Thank you." etc. I think her (likely) EA is running its course (it could even be with her girlfriend. IDK). I've made dramatic changes with the weight loss and Lasik eye surgery. I definitely look and act better and more confident. Outside chance she's noticed I suppose.

Offline Whyus

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2019, 11:26:54 PM »
Hi M,
im sorry that you find yourself here.
Im not kidding you, that sounds all too familiar with me. Its like i was reading my first thread. My XW was also 43 (as was I), Gym, new younger Friends etc. I actually asked her if she was having a PA with a younger GF who used to chill at our house sometimes. they were like glue, turned out that she was cover for a Young Milfhunter at the Gym. "Im going to TGFs for a while"  :-\
I first started posted a couple of weeks after BD, a week or 2 later I discovered OM and ABD (Atomic Bomb Drop). That was the day I asked her to leave for a while and think About what she wants. She didnt come back.

There is a Chance that there is no OM on the Scene but if you prepare yourself for the worst then it is easier to manage. This is probably the worst experience you will ever experience so prepare yourself. Its all About you and the Kids now you seem to be doing everything Right... Keep Posting and reading the other threads.


Look after YOUrself, eat, Sleep, breath and plod on for now. The essentiales first…
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. Is tolerated by LaFamiglia
2 Sons - 20 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline Thunder

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2019, 03:36:50 AM »
Hi M and welcome.

This site is a good place to be, you will not feel so alone.  People in the real world will find it hard to believe.  Most people think of a midlife crisis as a joke, but we know better.

You sure sound like you're handling things really well.  Letting them go do what their going to do is very sensible.  You can't stop them anyway.

Working on yourself is the best thing to do, it helps you detach from what she is doing.
At least you're not dealing with the Monster type MLCer.  Some can be really awful.
As long as you two stay in friendly, parent contact that is the best for the kids.
She is not your friend right now, but co-parenting has to happen, may as well do it in a friendly manner.

I'm sorry you are going through this, M.  It's not easy, but we're all here for you.

Take good care of yourself.  Post when ever you need to, someone's always around.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2019, 06:21:17 AM »
Appreciate all the responses. It's very helpful!

What are everyone's thoughts on bringing up and gently pushing D discussions? She hasn't really brought it up in any tangible way, but I think she's waiting for me to do it. I think she needs to feel the loss and see the kids have to deal with this mess before she can emerge from the tunnel. I will be okay, despite inconveniences this would bring. Almost like ripping the band aid off to start the long healing process. I just don't see many other options right now. 

Offline OldPilot

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2019, 06:53:43 AM »
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

RCR has asked everyone to keep to one thread until  that thread is 150 posts

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

Offline Helpingme!

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2019, 07:30:34 AM »
M47
I wouldn't bring it up or discuss D. My W talked it at first, but my advice I got was to not talk about it. Let it die down.
That's what I did. 
I also hid it all from my Kids and everyone else.
My thinking was one day when my W woke up there would be too much pain for her to handle and I definetly wasn't going to let her throw up in my face that I caused her any pain. I had heard enough of that monstering BS.

This is just my opinion M47. The way I've handled things are not the majority choice. I just let her be. Let her live her little fantasy life and went on with mine.
That's just my story with my MLCer. Just ONE example of many.
I don't think helping them see the damage and change. Until they can see the damage themselves, we can't help them either way my friend. For the better or the worse.

Offline forthetrees

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2019, 02:21:32 PM »
If you´ve lost the weight due to exercise and diet changes, great. If you´ve lost the weight because you literally could not swallow food due to the loss of appetite due to the numbing shock of it, then self-care is a priority.

You cannot control the speed of her emotional journey. You have some input on the divorce process timing. If your state allows for a legal separation, that might be a workable option to protect you financially. Limbo sucks and takes an enormous toll on your mind, body and soul. The finality of divorce brings relief but then a long journey of healing awaits. Ain´t no way around going through the pain and healing. Since you seem to be in an eyes wide open scenario, what steps can you take to make this endurable for your son? You are in a bit of bind in that you reside in the house, but your wife is using it to make a living. Have you thought about how you will extract yourself from that? Your son likely knows that something is up. He may be carrying around more anxiety than necessary and may welcome a chance to ask you questions. You might reach out to his counselor at school and/or English teacher as kids often express a lot in their writing assignments.

So sorry that you are in this situation.
me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2019, 02:38:25 PM »
Hey Forethetrees,

But for the first 2 weeks after BD, weight loss is due to diet and exercise.

As you point out, it's a tricky spot because W makes living at residence. She has effectively moved out, but is there M-F when S11 heads off to school and when he gets home. She leaves when I get home from work or after S11 goes to bed. Even if I tell her to fully move out, it will be confusing for S11.

This is why I asked earlier today if pushing the D along made any sense. She's got the best of 2 worlds now and little motivation to change any of that at the moment. With D settled, we could go our separate ways and explain it to our kids, etc. Other than that, it's a tight spot.

M

Offline Whyus

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2019, 10:44:51 PM »
I personally wouldnt Mention D unless you really WANT a D. Maybe just because you have had enough, have financial Problems due to your MLCer or she is a physical threat to you.
You dont Need a D to inform the Kids, which should be done sooner than later but they will only Need to know "Enough"!. They will nedd to know tha you dont want the seperation and that ist on your W, that is for her to own. not your Problem.
If you are still Standing then mentioning D wont help you out. It will not wake her or sna her out of it. She will take it all in her stride, slowly probably and you will D. A really important piece of advice which im sure everybody will agree with it "we cannot nice them back"!. That doesnt work , i tried that one and failed  :D. She did say at one Point that im unbelievable because im still being so nice to her ...….. Puke, I was kissing her arse like a pathetic lost Boy  >:(


Hang in there
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. Is tolerated by LaFamiglia
2 Sons - 20 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2019, 06:30:25 AM »
Some random things I've been thinking of saying to W if the opportunity presented itself. This would be to counter her having the best of both worlds currently. This would only happen if she brought up R. Would love feedback!

"You have made it clear you no longer want to be a part of this family. Regardless of what I think, you need to move on. I'm letting you go, and I am moving on."

"You have made choices, and you have to live with the consequences of those choices."

"I want to be clear so you don't have any misconceptions. I will be cordial and professional as a co-parent for the sake of our kids, but we will not be friends. Once this (D) is done, it's done forever."

Offline Whyus

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2019, 06:54:11 AM »
It sounds good and makes sence to us, those are classic lines in your/our Situation.
I personally believe, also because I said some similar Things is that it will roll of her back like water on a Lokus leaf. That is just my personal experience from dealing with my XW, I am not telling you what to do you here though.
It could also be that she may interpretate those comments as threts, they only hear what they want to hearafterall.

I gave up telling my XW such Things and just did them without warning. I let her go and I stopped being a "friend" or doing Things to make it easier for her but I was Always professional when it came to the Kids.
She noticed but it didnt Change anything which didnt matter because I did it for my inner Peace and not for her.
"Actions not words", thats what I learn here. Ist what we want/wanted from our MLCers so I guessed that is what they would want to see from us.

None of this is easy and there is no guidebook just references to be used as one feels.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. Is tolerated by LaFamiglia
2 Sons - 20 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2019, 07:11:20 AM »
Some random things I've been thinking of saying to W if the opportunity presented itself. This would be to counter her having the best of both worlds currently. This would only happen if she brought up R. Would love feedback!

"You have made it clear you no longer want to be a part of this family. Regardless of what I think, you need to move on. I'm letting you go, and I am moving on."

"You have made choices, and you have to live with the consequences of those choices."

"I want to be clear so you don't have any misconceptions. I will be cordial and professional as a co-parent for the sake of our kids, but we will not be friends. Once this (D) is done, it's done forever."

What she is going to hear (if she's really off into the tunnel) is:



and, as WhyUs noted, it will have about the same impact/effect....
Me - 56
xW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Online Standing Strong

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2019, 09:48:22 AM »
Words do mean something to them, but only at the right stages and moments.

They choose who they trust on various topics, and if you're not in the "circle" it will have the opposite effect you are seeking.

This is why it's important to build a new trust with them, so you can help.
If she's still in the phase of trusting certain friends and certain family..... she isn't going to care what you say (that will either be very clear, or it will disappear into brain black hole).

If you aren't trusted i a specific area, the only people who can influence her is those trusted people. They may be a bad influence, but she will have to figure that out on her own. It sucks, but that's the way it is.
Don't shoot yourself in the foot. If you can zip it..... zip it. If/when she comes around, you'll know. You also can't put blame on her or she will clam up. You're playing the long game, play wisely.

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2019, 12:05:30 PM »
Anyone have any experience with filing D to get spouse's attention/wake them up? I know this usually doesn't work, but would love to hear from people who may have first-hand knowledge.

Also, what do people think of being friendly (in a non-romantic, friendly roommate kind of way) to their W when there is a high likelihood she is engaged in an A? Better to give the cold shoulder?

Offline Disillusioned

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2019, 01:35:05 PM »
Anyone have any experience with filing D to get spouse's attention/wake them up? I know this usually doesn't work, but would love to hear from people who may have first-hand knowledge.

Also, what do people think of being friendly (in a non-romantic, friendly roommate kind of way) to their W when there is a high likelihood she is engaged in an A? Better to give the cold shoulder?

Only file if you are truly, completely able to handle the consequences.  Are you ready to be divorced?  Filing on someone who is just engaged in an affair is sometimes recommend to shock them through the fog of limerance, but for someone in MLC, it will not have the desired effect and should only be done if you can handle any scenario that she comes back with.
M=51
W=47
D=8
BD Feb 17 Thinking of divorce
Atomic BD June 17 Spying revealed OM at work
Still home.  Threatened to leave several times and has asked me to leave about a dozen. 
Says divorce proceedings will start Jan 18.
She has scheduled mediation Feb 7,  2018
I moved out March 16, 2018
Several mediations, mostly instigated by me.  Foot dragging by STBXW.  Nothing filed. Yet.
5/2019 STBXW filed D behind my back despite signed agreement to mediate.
I retain attorney.
STBXW still hasn't told me and no further action.
Elephant in the room has been addressed.  No further action atm.  Weighing my options.

Online Treasur

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2019, 02:01:47 PM »
I don't think I have read a single story here of divorce being used successfully as a wake-up call.
Tbh, logically, if you accept that their crisis is about them not the marriage, then that makes sense doesn't it? This is not a normal situation and normal rules rarely apply tbh. And in a strange way, I think they have already divorced us in their heads.....

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't file...you may have other reasons that bring you to that decision.
But I would agree with Dis that divorce is a serious step and one to take only if you are very clear in your own mind about the reasons for doing so which have nothing to do with your w's reactions or not.

On the Friendly roommate thing? Not sure I have much to say as my situation was quite different but again the underlying principle is more about behaving in accord with your own values and priorities rather than trying to influence her. At the same time, Friendly is not always appropriate if someone is treating you with disregard or giving you lots of monster spew...civil is probably easier to aim for. I tried to choose what I thought I would feel ok with if I looked back five years later when I wasn't sure, so I used the rule of 3 a lot to train myself to respond rather than react based on how I felt at a given moment.  Jmo.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 02:07:34 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2019, 04:05:24 PM »
Couple of other tidbits to consider:

I really don’t know were her head is right now. Very friendly, talkative when see each other. Even though it’s just about kids/finances. I’m worried she thinks this is what divorce will be like!

Right after BD, I felt as though she was repulsed by me. The last 3 weeks or so, she seems a little more relaxed and I don’t feel the same way, though we appear to be far away from any physical contact.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 04:07:19 PM by M47W43 »

Offline Whyus

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2019, 12:12:16 AM »
I may be wrong here but my XW was very similar. She BDed me but we still shared a bed (she bought 2 single quilts and threw our huge quilt away which was a sign and broke me). She was "mostly" Cold but friendly, just Living I guess.
6 weeks later I busted her and OM, that night she left and she never came back.

A couple of weeks later she was really friendly, would sometimes come home to cook and clean whilst I was at work. The fact is (in my case) was that she thought that I had accepted that she was with OM and was cool with it and we would be Friends. She really wanted to be my friend!!! I mean, WTF is that all About?

This may be where your W is, she thinks your "cool" with the Situation because your being Kind to her. They see, hear and believe only what they want to and Twist Things to suit their Needs.
Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. Is tolerated by LaFamiglia
2 Sons - 20 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2019, 01:50:50 AM »
Anyone have any experience with filing D to get spouse's attention/wake them up? I know this usually doesn't work, but would love to hear from people who may have first-hand knowledge.

PLEASE tell me this question is NOT serious......



Seriously... you could stick a nuclear bomb in her underwear and it won't wake her up if she's truly off to the races. It would, however, play DIRECTLY into her hands to prove that YOU are the evil one, the one that is causing all the problems... It allows her to dodge any and all responsibility/accountability (which they do anyway) for the consequences of her actions. YOU file and she gets a "Get Out Of Jail Free" pass for her shenanigans because YOU ended the marriage, not her. That is the narrative that will be played out on the silver screen of her history...

Also, what do people think of being friendly (in a non-romantic, friendly roommate kind of way) to their W when there is a high likelihood she is engaged in an A? Better to give the cold shoulder?

The cold shoulder approach works if they are being a twatwaffle, if they are flaunting the AD in your face, and so on. Other than that, unless they are being truly abusive (in which case No Contact is a viable option), you have NOTHING to loose by being cordial and polite... Doesn't mean you have to play snugglebunnny BFFs with them (I certainly do not with xW as I don't have friends that treat me the way she treated me or her other so-called friends who were not enablers).  I think it might have been Treasur once who said that the best option is to treat a live-in Mid-Lifer like the crazy aunt/uncle that lives in the basement of the house - polite,ly, cordially, but all the while knowing that you can only trust them about as far as you can throw them...
Me - 56
xW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline forthetrees

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2019, 07:12:40 AM »
What Ursa said.
me 51
H 51
M 27
BD 1/15/ 10 then BD 8/21/10
D final 8/13

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2019, 07:18:02 AM »
Doing some tidying up around the house and cleaning up/sorting all sorts of paperwork etc. I came across an application my wife sent in to “My Lost Family.” If you’ve been following my situation, you may recall she is adopted. It was heartbreaking to read the application. Things like, “I don’t know who I am.” and “I know nothing about my birth father.” Also found a letter from her birth mother, apologizing to W for not letting her contact her 3 half-siblings who W tracked down at end of last year.

No idea if this has anything to do with our current situation, but I am in pain just reading this stuff. I can only imagine how W must feel.

Online Standing Strong

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2019, 07:25:55 AM »
Hey M47,

Oh wow..... that is terrible. When did she start that process of looking? I'm assuming that must always have been something on her mind all these years.
It makes me wonder if she got the ball rolling to find them around the time she went into "shadow pre-BD".

These questions they have... they build and build until finally they break in MLC and (hopefully) seek out answers.
Big life questions needing resolution, that sure sounds like MLC to me.

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2019, 07:30:17 AM »
SS,

I'd say the questions about her siblings/father came about 2-3 years ago. We located her birth mom when we were dating and that received mixed results. Knowing there is nothing I can do to help solve this is maddening.


Online Standing Strong

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2019, 08:24:51 AM »
Hey M47,

Then that lines up with the normal amount of time for "shadow pre-BD"..... big life event too, which is typical of lighting the fuse.
Does it seem that way to you? (the time-frame)

Oh what they should teach all men in husband class. Oh that there would be a mandatory husband class for all males.

Yup, totally maddening..... I know what you mean. They will figure it out or they won't. Very hard to watch the one you love struggle. Very hard to not be able able to protect them or solve their problems.
Stand fast M47, you're doing good. You're the rock and the lighthouse in this. She has to see the light and get her bearings before heading home.

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2019, 04:21:13 PM »
Not too much to update. I have noticed W is at least a little bit more relaxed in my presence over the last 2-3 weeks. Light conversation, and she actually laughed today! Right after BD I got the feeling she was repulsed by my presence, even staying on the opposite side of the room as me. Lately, we have been standing physically closer to each other the last week or two. Just some observations.

S18 due home from college next week and he will have to be brought into loop re: W staying at friend's house each night. Also need to decide on Christmas schedule. My goal is to keep emotions out of it as these things unfold.   

Offline MKnight10

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2019, 03:56:29 PM »
Hi M47W43

I could have written your post myself....I've heard all the same stuff....I'm 3yrs into this mess.

My only advice, as will be repeated by the veterans on this forum, is to detach the best you can, get a life for yourself outside the relationship, concentrate on your kids and  leave her to get on the crazy train by herself.

Read ShocknAwe threads and ShockSis, recovered MLCer posts. It gives great insight into what goes on in their heads. You cant fix it.

Let them go. The sooner you can do that, the more at peace you will be.

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2019, 07:14:46 PM »
Thanks, MKnight.

Tonight we attended S11 winter concert at school. It was the first time since BD we rode in the same car together. We watched the concert and there was plenty of small talk throughout. We came home and very briefly talked finances. She said she would have to sell the house because there was no way she could afford it “by herself.” I did not respond to her comment. She runs a biz out of the house, so we had discussed several weeks ago giving her house in a D.

Unfortunately, I don’t think she will hit rock bottom until I’m completely out of the picture. If you were to see us interact, you would not think a D was likely coming down the pike. It’s a bizarre place to be in, that’s for sure.

Offline Disillusioned

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2019, 07:46:33 PM »
M4,

I have been separated from my MLCW for almost 2 years now come March. Living in separate homes. There are still people who see us together that do not know that we're not a happily married couple. I have met co-workers of hers that call her my better half.  :o We are all living in an LBS bizarro world.  This Saturday marks 241 days since she filed for divorce without telling me, and she hasn't done anything else. We have a status conference scheduled in May. I don't know what that will bring between now and then. Keep your head up, take the high road, and let your conscience guide you. You need to be able to look back at this time and know that you were the best that you could be.
M=51
W=47
D=8
BD Feb 17 Thinking of divorce
Atomic BD June 17 Spying revealed OM at work
Still home.  Threatened to leave several times and has asked me to leave about a dozen. 
Says divorce proceedings will start Jan 18.
She has scheduled mediation Feb 7,  2018
I moved out March 16, 2018
Several mediations, mostly instigated by me.  Foot dragging by STBXW.  Nothing filed. Yet.
5/2019 STBXW filed D behind my back despite signed agreement to mediate.
I retain attorney.
STBXW still hasn't told me and no further action.
Elephant in the room has been addressed.  No further action atm.  Weighing my options.

Offline Little Wing

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2019, 03:38:56 AM »
M4,

i have a very similar situation with my W - check my thread.

In regards to how to act towards W when you suspect she is still seeing AP and other upsetting behaviour, I have taken the approach of the vets before me of responding in kind to pleasant behaviour W exhibits and ignoring as much as possible her nasty behaviour.

It is very difficult to not feel taken advantage of when your partner seems to cake eat, taking stability and support from you whilst hurting you deeply.

Try to remember what you already know..  this affair is not about you.  You are accountable for your actions as is your W, just try to focus on what is right for you and your kids and you will look back at this awful time with pride that you did what you could when your W was lost in the fog.

 Nothing you do will snap her out of it, nice or nasty.

 Recognise your courage, regardless if you stand for 6 months or 6 years it all takes tremendous courage and determination.

LW


Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2019, 04:27:25 AM »
Discussed Christmas plans with W and she said she would be coming to my family’s celebration on Christmas Eve because “it was the right thing to do.” Also Indicated she would stay here in order to be here for Christmas morning with the kids, and that she would “ sleep on the couch or something.” I did not respond to her couch comment at all.

S18 will be coming home from college tomorrow. Taking next semester off. We discussed what to do with some of his stuff like his coffee machine. W said maybe he could sell it, or he could bring it home because “you may need it.” I didn’t take the bait and get into an R or D discussion, just ended the conversation there.

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2019, 04:59:49 PM »
W still liking almost all of my social media posts, which I find strange given the circumstances. She hasn’t brought up mediation or D discussions. We’ve been texting about kids mostly, or our schedules/bills. Always cordial and even occasional “lol” comments. No R discussions in last 10 weeks. One of my concerns is that this is what W thinks divorce will be like.

Thoughts on any of this appreciated!

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2019, 11:45:06 AM »
Update/venting:

W says we should take 2 cars to Christmas Eve tomorrow night because she might "leave early" to go to her "brother's house." Said she will be home late and will sleep on couch so boys know she's there.

Part of me wants to tell her to not bother. She has made it clear she longer wants to be a part of this family, so let's not fake it. The other part of me wants to play it cool and get through the holidays without a huge uproar for the benefit of the kids.

Advice needed/welcomed.

Online Treasur

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2019, 11:57:10 AM »
Ah dear chum, I can hear your monkey braining from here.  ;) understandable.

I am assuming that YOU want to go to your family's celebration regardless of whether your wife goes or not?
If so, do that. Make your plans as if she were an acquaintance who may or may not show up. Separate your plans with your family completely, set off when you are ready, drive separately, arrive and leave when you choose. In a very courteous way, ignore her....she may think she is the centre of the universe but it isn't true. I can see real advantages for you in the 2 car option tbh and in making your Christmas Day plans as if she were a optional extra too.
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline MKnight10

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2019, 04:30:07 PM »
I feel your pain

Quote
Unfortunately, I don’t think she will hit rock bottom until I’m completely out of the picture. If you were to see us interact, you would not think a D was likely coming down the pike. It’s a bizarre place to be in, that’s for sure.

I expect it will take a long time for her to hit rock bottom - you will need to be completely out of the picture. If its like anything I've heard, I am the sole reason fro her unhappiness and the OM is perfect and makes her happy.

Try and detach the best you can - its incredibly difficult when she still lives in the same house.

Offline UrsaMajor

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2019, 01:58:07 AM »


Yep, the monkeys have escaped their cages again... Totally understandable with the shenanigans you are witnessing...

Treasur is right though... Do your own thing at your own pace in your own time... MLCW is relegated to the position of crazy aunt that shows up to the family dinner that everyone tolerates and that is fine... It is what she is wanting/asking for and, until she gets to the point where she has lost it all and realizes that she is STILL unhappy (i. e. hits rock bottom with a resounding <splat!>) she will continue down the path....

Do what is good for you... What is good for her is not your concern anymore... not to mention the fact that what YOU think is good for her will NOT match what SHE thinks is good for her...
Me - 56
xW - 49
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation
S - 12
D - 8
2 Dogs (1 each)
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2019, 10:00:41 PM »
Surreal night at family gathering with W. She was her usual cheerful self with everyone there but avoided me. People were asking questions about what was going on. I stayed focused on the kids. W left gathering to go to sister in law’s but I’m 99 percent sure she went somewhere else instead. Going to do my best to remain at least indifferent toward her for Christmas, but I’m about at end of my rope as far as d-bing goes. She’s not coming back. Need to change course after New Year.

With that, I’d like to wish everyone here a merry Christmas and happy holidays. Your support is worth more than you know.

Online Standing Strong

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2019, 12:04:14 AM »
Yup M47, that's sounds right on the money...... all normal to everyone, except you.

Really a rotten feeling isn't it?

They put in all that effort to look normal, and the whole while it is so unnatural, uncomfortable and not fun for them (it is quite the show).

Hang in there man, and try not to think about what they could be doing. Yeah that's the hard part, but we fill in all kinds of terrible things which simply don't happen... so don't torment yourself over nothing.
Those moments when you want to quit will come, and if you hang on..... they will also go.

-SS
W - 38
M - 42
Together 24 years, M 21
No kids
BD - 27th April 2019

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2019, 09:35:44 AM »
SS,

Thanks for the reply. I guess I’m wondering why bother to stand when as best as I can tell, most of the situations like mine seem to end up with the W filing for D at some point anyway? Why not make the best possible custody/financial deal right now while she wants out and might be willing to give up more in order to fully flee to her fantasy life? She needs to feel the loss. Right now, she’s enjoying the best of both world’s and is cake eating big time.

Online Treasur

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2019, 10:32:25 AM »
And that is a legitimate choice, M47.
Particularly when divorce has already been discussed and if you think your w will give you a better deal on some things.
However....
Lots of emotion around at this time of year so a good time to not react to events
Even if your w says she wants the divorce, most MLCers drag their feet on paperwork so you will probably have to drive it through if you want it done quickly.
What your w says right now about anything much can change from a Tuesday to a Wednesday and as reality bites she may start getting nastier about things like custody.

Imho divorce is a serious decision for anyone.
And it matters that whatever decision you make is one that you can be at peace with.
Have you taken L advice already? If not, that may be a useful first step, just to gather more information.
If you have, breathe, consider your options and take your time. Jmo..

If you are trying to game the odds?
Well, if your wife is in MLC things will usually get worse before they get better and it takes years. You are six months into this with a 20 year marriage and kids.  And MLC trumps divorce, so your w's behaviour will not magically improve once she gets the divorce she says she wants. Nor does divorce mean that future reconciliation is impossible of course.
I suspect a small majority here end up divorced. Others live separated for years without legal divorce. A minority have MLCers who stay as live ins and might mutter divorce but don't do it. None of these are great options though and they all bring different challenges.
Deciding to stand without a divorce, though one or indeed after one is an intensely personal choice about you, what you believe is going on with your w and some of the practicalities of life including what is best for your kids.
It's complicated
So take your time and choose what you think is your best approach for you.
Meanwhile I'd suggest that if you think you might not want a divorce and don't want to be the one that files, stop discussing it with your w. She is free to do as she sees fit but it isn't your job to solve the problem for her.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2019, 10:37:04 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2019, 04:55:44 AM »
Update

We spoke on Christmas and it’s clear to me that it’s over. W spewed all the usual MLC jargon. “You can’t re-fall in love with someone” “There is nothing here between us”’ “ I don’t feel any connection” “25 years. We had a good run.” I validated her statements and told her that I was letting her go. “If you want to be with someone else, you can go. I’m no longer fighting for you.”

I then said that we should get together and discuss splitting everything up so we can file and get a mediator. It’s best to have everything agreed upon in advance to expedite the D process. I am okay with this path, as I feel there is zero chance of R without some loss being felt by W. She has the best of both worlds at the moment, and if one of those worlds is lost, perhaps things will change.

And to be clear, I am not going down this path to try and snap her out of it. I am going down this path as a matter of self respect and in the interests of myself and my children. W’s actions and choices are simply unacceptable, and I will not continue to be disrespected. I will continue to focus on myself and my kids,  which has been very helpful to me. She can do what she wants to do and sort herself out on her own. Sad day, but I also feel it’s a necessary day. Onward.

Offline marvin4242

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2019, 06:27:57 AM »
M47W43: I am so sorry you are at this point and yours and your children’s life has been so impacted by this. But it sounds like you are making a very non reactive and self caring decision here. As you say as long as it is for you and your kids and not trying to impact what is going on with your wife that is a very valid thing. Also no matter what if you get a fair settlement now you will probably do better as time goes on, as there are tons of stories of MLCers willing to do anything to get away initially only to get more and more unreasonable as they sink further and further into crises.

And as many have said even if you finalize a divorce now and one day she does recover and you are both still somewhere where you want to reconcile nothing will stop you then. But right now you have to worry about RIGHT NOW and the years of turmoil she is facing.

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2019, 06:45:35 AM »
Discussions regarding D have begun in earnest. W is also now telling people we are getting D. I’m just navigating the process and trying to get the best deal possible for me and my kids. I feel stuck between looking forward to the future and trying to not push forward the D too hastily. Natural feeling I suppose.

Offline marvin4242

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2019, 07:04:37 AM »
Right now maybe it’s best if you simply focus on one hour and one day at a time. Don’t rush anything as you said, and get a written legal settlement of finances if she is pushing in place. Then you can see how slow or fast things proceed.

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2019, 11:15:04 AM »
My suggestion to you is to make sure you get what is yours. Minimum half custody of the kids, full custody if it makes more sense. Approach  it to her as giving her more time to get settled in her new life. Mine was a spender. $20,000+ in one month. If you have a shared account, move your half of the money to a new account with only your name. Do not give up things unless you truly don't care about them or you have no choice. I hate to say it, but everything can be a bargaining chip and hard as it is, you must not lose sight of that while you are so vulnerable. She likely doesn't want the furnishings,etc, then will try to make out that you got everything. Make sure it's specific that you having to keep and/or get rid of everything is not a fair exchange for, say, your family heirlooms.

Good luck. I'm very sorry you are going through this.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2019, 06:04:54 AM »
Venting:

W says I need to go to counseling (how ironic) so I can better deal with our sitch. (I have been going, but haven't told her). She is also in IC and is spinning a wonderful load of BS to her counselor (family and friends as well). She doesn't think blowing up a family is that big a deal, and for some reason thinks we will still be chummy when it's over. "We can put S11 in therapy." Doesn't view D as being a big deal. She views me as traditional/old fashioned and tries to make it seem like I'm the one who's out of touch for fighting to keep the family unit together, and she thinks we can still be a family after D.

For my part, I have no choice but to focus on getting the D over with ASAP. Meeting with people to prepare for mediation this week. On to new things in 2020!

Online Treasur

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2019, 06:15:54 AM »
You might find it helpful M - if only for your sanity and blood pressure - to refuse to engage in these kinds of conversations at all. Her reality is hers; yours is yours. Maybe find a set of small phrases to shut the conversations down like 'well, we obviously see things differently' or 'I imagine we are both finding our own way to adapt and move forward' or 'we may have to accept that we have different POV right now' or 'I guess this is normal when people get divorced'. Or even the useful 'hmmm' or no response at all.

Which also means you starting to train yourself to a) not care much about what she thinks about anything much and b) give up trying to persuade her to see your perspective or care about anyone else's feelings or thoughts. Sorry. And yes, you probably do need to save your energy for dealing with the practicalities of divorce and supporting your daughter if divorce is on the table now. Much easier to do without the distraction of someone else's justifications or avoidance of realities that come with divorce imho. Less blah blah conversations with your w may help that bc it is exhausting to battle someone else's reality that still seems WTF to you after a long marriage and painful to realise that your w only cares about what she thinks and feels right now. Sorry.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 06:19:43 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2020, 05:15:27 PM »
Recap/Update:

W contacted a realtor who will be out next week to look at the house and her daycare business and give us an idea of what we are looking at as far as a sale. W wants to sell both and is motivated to do so. I will also be making an appointment with a mediator tomorrow. I am seeking primary custody of my S11 and S18 (while he is an adult, Id like to keep the boys together if possible).

As far what I have been doing, I went to IC Friday. IC says she doesn't see anything that screams D is necessary in our sitch. W is in replay and is projecting her anger onto me and making the fall guy. This is likely triggered by her unresolved issues as an adoptee.

Our interactions remain civil. She texted today to ask how the boys liked the hockey game I took them to last night. Still occasionally offers to small things for me. I find this behavior bizarre and fear she thinks divorce is going to be this "friendly." I just keep an even keel and try to validate as much as possible. I struggle at times with what to do. Focus on mediation and get the best deal I can? Hang in longer and make her do all the work for a D?

Appreciate any and all feedback.

Online readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2020, 05:49:43 PM »
Hello,

Quote
I struggle at times with what to do. Focus on mediation and get the best deal I can? Hang in longer and make her do all the work for a D?

If you are in the process of divorce, you do what is in your best interests and the interests of the children. Remember, no one wins in divorce. You do the best you can and survive.

Quote
W contacted a realtor who will be out next week to look at the house and her daycare business and give us an idea of what we are looking at as far as a sale. W wants to sell both and is motivated to do so.

The reason why I stated the above is that she is motivated and already moving through the process. If she had filed and was taking her sweet time, then make her work. In this case, she is moving rapidly and you need to protect yourself.

Just my opinion,

Ready

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Online AlvinTheMaker

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2020, 10:29:23 PM »
W is in replay and is projecting her anger onto me and making the fall guy. This is likely triggered by her unresolved issues as an adoptee.
...
Our interactions remain civil. She texted today to ask how the boys liked the hockey game I took them to last night. Still occasionally offers to small things for me. I find this behavior bizarre
...
Appreciate any and all feedback.

Let me paraphrase what you wrote...

YOU feel she is projecting anger onto you.  But  are you sure it is anger, or is it some other emotions coming through this way?
And is that feeling about you or something else?
You used word "likely triggered by", which hints you have nothing certain about what that specific moment is about?

If you don't have it from the horse's mouth, then don't second guess.
Show a bit of empathy towards her, and ask (what is the worst that can happen - a bit more of the same? Things really can't turn worse)....
Say something like (paraphrase it to your own wording/style)....  "I notice you seem a bit frustrated. I'm sorry you feel that way. Can you tell me what is wrong? If possible I would like to listen and understand if I could help you out with it"
You are not trying to play nice with her, you are trying to show you notice how she feels and that you are trying to understand what it is all about.  Just like you would do for a small kid who's raging for some reason you have no clue. 

And then listen to what she says. Don't take any of it personally, as everything she says is about HER feelings and HER needs. 
Just listen - don't react, don't try to fix. 
And then show some empathy. Validate how she feels (no matter how crazy it might feel for you).
And if her unmet needs are something you can easily assist and they don't harm you, then please do help her out.
 
That anger/frustration/whatever is coming for some reason, and it is because she likely feels some of her feelings are not validated and some needs are unmet.  She may behave like crazy, but even crazy people have got feelings and needs, and they seek validation and understanding the same way as anyone else.  If you push against them, of course you will get a negative response.

And then repeat this approach for awhile. It will likely take some time before she notices you are trying to approach things differently...

What you are doing right now is not clearly working for you two. So why do you keep doing the same and expecting a different result?  Just my view from the cheap seats...

Alvin
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 11:02:54 PM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
Me: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
Kids (at time of BD): G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

*** Every person on the planet is like you - a human being, most likely doing the best they can. Some are just more in control of themself than others ***
*** There are things you control and things you can't control, but what you can control is your attitude towards things you can't control. ***
*** “Rivers know this: There is no hurry, we shall get there some day.” — Winnie the Pooh ***

Online Treasur

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2020, 12:21:43 AM »
Quote
What you are doing right now is not clearly working for you two. So why do you keep doing the same and expecting a different result?
Alvin, this seems a bit harsh. M47 is facing a legal process where his home, custody of his children and finances are at risk. 6 months in and a 20+ year marriage. His situation is quite different from yours (pause for empathy perhaps?) and I see nothing in his posts to suggest that he is not trying to behave in a reasonable and civil way with a W who is hellbent on divorce and splitting assets currently.

Empathy is not agreement of course and validation e.g. I hear that you feel...is a useful tool in something like mediation perhaps even if it is one-sided bc it can defuse conflict sometimes.

However, the tough truth M47 is that once a legal process is on the table imho, the game changes and securing your own interests and what is best for your kids becomes the priority. Which doesn't mean that you can't behave in a civil and respectful way. But a lot of LBS here got screwed in a divorce process bc they were rather too concerned about the feelings of the fleeing spouse and not concerned enough about their self-interest.

Ready's advice sounds wise to me. I am truly sorry that this is how things are right now. I sense in your posts a tension between dealing with things practically vs wondering how speedily proactive you should be about a divorce you don't want. While I'm sure feeling a sense of shock that this is even happening. Which is normal. My best advice is to understand the legal advice on the pros and cons of being proactive vs letting your w drive the ship. To go slow and steady in your decision-making. To remember that your w is firing you from your h job so it is no longer your responsibility to 'do things for her' in the same way you did without being an a$$hat about it. To behave in a way which is in accord with your own values and that you think you would feel ok about in years to come.

And your concern about your w thinking that you will be friendly post divorce? Well, I wouldn't worry about that too much. Partly bc she will think what she thinks anyway. Partly bc you can always politely say no. Mostly bc you will work out your boundaries as a stbxh/xh as you go and a certain level of polite friendliness probably helps in co-parenting. But friendly is not the same as being friends and you will work it out as you go....and in a legal process for a divorce you don't want, your w is not your friend right now in the current circumstances unless she starts behaving like someone who places as much care on your needs as on her own.

But I am truly sorry that you are having to deal with this at all and know how painful it is to dismantle your life in this way.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 12:23:39 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
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Online AlvinTheMaker

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2020, 05:14:00 AM »
Quote
What you are doing right now is not clearly working for you two. So why do you keep doing the same and expecting a different result?
Alvin, this seems a bit harsh. M47 is facing a legal process where his home, custody of his children and finances are at risk. 6 months in and a 20+ year marriage. His situation is quite different from yours (pause for empathy perhaps?) and I see nothing in his posts to suggest that he is not trying to behave in a reasonable and civil way with a W who is hellbent on divorce and splitting assets currently.

Treasur -  all in all I don't see the situation between M47 and myself that different.  About 5-6 months back both I and W were somewhat deeply stuck. We had talks of divorce, custody etc. and filing would have been the next step. And I was relatively certain the worst would happen (and per advice given I was and still am prepared to all of it).  But here we are now, still together, from DEFCON-2 to DEFCON-4....  What changed back then was me... You know what they say is the easiest way to start a war?  A defensive act...  I started dropping my defensive acts, and started building and showing (unilateral) empathy instead. One small act at a time, day after day. And that got the ball rolling slowly between us two, my W is beginning to open up the issues underneath. Where it leads us into nobody knows yet.  But showing a bit of empathy at time like that got us two off the edge.... And yes, it took a lot of courage. But at that point I really had nothing more to loose. If I would not try to change things, I would lose everything I hold dear.  If I would fail in my attempt, I would lose everything I hold dear. But if I succeeded, then there was hope. Of course I am just sample of one.

My point is that it's never too late to try to change things... IMHO There is a reason M47s W is moving the way she does, and until he understands what that reason is and learns to validate her feelings, things will not get better between them two.  And IMHO the way M47 can understand what is going inside that head of hers is empathy.... Empathy has got nothing do with becoming a doormat or giving anything away.  It is all about you finding your inbuilt system to genuinely listening and understanding what is driving other person, and then responding the right way (without any learned rules).

As far as legal issues would go... my personal advice to M47 would be to leave it to lawyers as much as possible. 

Alvin
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 05:22:58 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
Me: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD: Feb 2019
Kids (at time of BD): G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

On LBS diet: started at 281 lbs, now 265 - goal is to lose 66 lbs while being suck at this

*** Every person on the planet is like you - a human being, most likely doing the best they can. Some are just more in control of themself than others ***
*** There are things you control and things you can't control, but what you can control is your attitude towards things you can't control. ***
*** “Rivers know this: There is no hurry, we shall get there some day.” — Winnie the Pooh ***

Offline marvin4242

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2020, 06:39:36 AM »
About 5-6 months back both I and W were somewhat deeply stuck. We had talks of divorce, custody etc. and filing would have been the next step. And I was relatively certain the worst would happen (and per advice given I was and still am prepared to all of it).  But here we are now, still together, from DEFCON-2 to DEFCON-4....  What changed back then was me...

Alvin you are globalizing a short term set of facts in your particular case to everyone. This is dangerous at best and highly damaging at worst. I have not shared my story but I had many swings, months at a time, from absolute MLC depths to almost normal. I knew even then these were temporary, from everything I understand and from wise advice given.  My wife suddenly declared she wanted a divorce right after 4 months of almost returning to normal and our relationship being back to 70% of pre-BD. And this was almost 2 years out. And this is not uncommon. That's why its called a rollercoaster ride. And there was absolutely no triggering event. And she had returned all the way back to the BD shark eyes, level of pain and confusion by then. And I've shared before the day before my wife came home a wise vet from another forum called me and said "expect her to announce she wants a divorce." I smirked when she told me. She nailed it.

Please do not assume this temporary improvement is permanent or has much to do with any approach. Maybe your wife is simply questioning her marriage, maybe she is going through a MLT. Or maybe this is one of MANY swings yet to come. That is why I strongly urge newbies to listen to the experience of people with many more years of experience than you, or even me (and I am ahead of your curve by a bit).

Everyone should choose what works for them, but please don't be so sure you are on a path, not just yet. If you are that is great and I hope it continues in the direction you wish. And I will cheer for every positive step of healing and growth. But it may be a bit presumptuous and arrogant to think from so little experience that your advice will work out for others, where your story is very near the beginning. And you are assuming your actions have much impact, what if you are not correct and there is no direct cause and effect as you believe?

Please thread carefully.

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #56 on: January 06, 2020, 07:25:11 AM »
Thanks for all of the feedback Alvin, Treasur and Marvin. Every bit of it is helpful!

I know that I should never give up hope, but I also believe divorce is just a piece of paper. W is dead set on moving on from the M and her "new friends" (many of whom are D) and her pro-divorce therapist have convinced/validated her beliefs that she got married too young, ILYBNILWU, and nearly every other piece of the MLC script. There is zero doubt she is in MLC. There is also zero doubt she is convinced she needs to end the M to find "happiness."

She has told her parents she is going to pursue D. I have to think of myself and my kids. Now is the best chance to get an agreement I could live with. What happens down the road remains to be seen. I won't ever say never, but any type of R will be hers to pursue when and if she is so inclined.

Offline OffRoad

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2020, 08:51:29 AM »
That sounds wise, M47. I did all the things Alvin said as my H was an 18 month live in. It didn't matter. He eventually left anyway and I am grateful I had already secured my half of the bank accounts. Each MLCER is the same, yet different and we have to choose the best path we can, given whatever situation we have. I'd ask my mlcer a simple question a d he'd SCREAM at me. He couldn't even tell me why he was so angry, so validation was useless in those cases.

You are doing well.
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2020, 07:47:57 AM »
Realtor due at the house in a few hours. W has been out all weekend and has done absolutely nothing to prep the house in any way. She is currently scrambling to get S18 and S11 out of the house for when realtor will be here. As for me, I woke up, ran to get coffee and donuts for the boys and made chili for football later on. Que sera, sera.

Offline M47W43Topic starterTopic starter

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2020, 06:56:55 AM »
Realtor visit went reasonably well. House/wife's business going on the market at end of February. W says she needs to find a job and does not know where she is going to live. We had a brief custody discussion (S11) and she mumbled that she wanted what's best for kids, and whoever lived in a town with a better school system (likely to be me) should be custodial parent. Said she "didn't want to fight."

Initial appointment with a mediator slated for this coming Friday. If you have been following my sitch, W has been staying with a female "friend" every night since July. She insists she wants a D and has told her family and a couple of close friends she is going to get a D. While it wasn't my first choice, I see no point in waiting around until she files and puts me on the defensive. I don't know that I could ever take her back given the breakdown in our trust, and I would always be thinking that she is going to leave, is having a PA, etc.

I continue to work on myself, and am focused on getting the best possible agreement for me and my kids. She needs to work through this by herself, there is no way around that fact.   

Offline Whyus

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Re: Wife in MLC - please share your thoughts/opinions/diagnosis
« Reply #60 on: January 15, 2020, 05:10:32 AM »
We had a brief custody discussion (S11) and she mumbled that she wanted what's best for kids, and whoever lived in a town with a better school system (likely to be me) should be custodial parent. Said she "didn't want to fight."
My XS and I sat our Boys down and told them that we had "seperated". She said "I dont know where I am going to live but I just want a small appartment for myself where I dont have to do anything for anybody else and just have myself to look after. We will let you decide for yourselves who you want to live with, we wont be disapointed or take it personally if you choose the other parent".... both Boys said "we will live with dad!"... she just said "Ok, I respect your decisions".
Crazy, she basically said that she wasnt interested in them anymore except for a couple of Hours to Chat with them like a big sister...

Married - 19,5 Years pre BD
Together - 21,5 Years
Me: 46
W: 46 (Acts 25)
BD 1: 10.01.2017
BD 2: 24.02.2017 OM 28 (now 31) Trainings partner. Is tolerated by LaFamiglia
2 Sons - 20 & 21
1 Dogs and a cat.
Own home . Sold!
Divorce Date 21.08.2018
T1  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8671.0

 

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