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Author Topic: My Story Wife's MLC 17

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My Story Wife's MLC 17
#140: June 30, 2020, 06:27:24 AM
Offroad, all of that right there, is why I want to go to therapy.

You may recall or not, the date I had in the next town over with the "live" band. it was basically karaoke with instruments. Regardless, they put on a really good light show and they had a huge display wall that had graphics moving all over it and the drummer sat in front of it. She was drumming the same pattern over and over and had this huge, plastic looking smile on her face and honestly, I couldn't tell if she was part of the graphics or not, she looked like a background character in rock band or something. IT was so dark and smoky.

Anyway, I do this for a living too, so naturally I was really curious about it. So as I was standing and looking at it (observing it) this 60 something year old lady literally shoves me, a 5' 10" 230# man who could have snapped her in half and she making all these monster faces and motions at me like a deranged wolf man or something and she's like "how can you just stand there?"

Years ago, my mom would have told me it doesn't matter why people act like that, it's not your job to figure it out. Who cares and move on.. But here we are talking about it. There is a pattern. I stopped to observe something that interests me, which is fine because that's the person I am. However, this lady choose to single me out for it or even punish me, for being different. The lady I was with left me standing there to go off and find her friends in the center of the crowd. Maybe if as you were suggesting, I did that too, that wouldn't have happened.

But how can I respond to her (the lady that shoved me) in a way that makes a difference and doesn't get me arrested? I could have told her to F off, but that would have only pleased me and not accomplished anything in the long run. I could have assaulted her, but then i'd be arrested and I would have probably lost my job. I could have explained what I was doing, but why? That's almost like apologizing when I was doing nothing wrong to begin with.

And so I do nothing and the self esteem gets lower and the amount of questions I have increases. This far into the game now after being divorced, I'm telling people I'm bored because they won't stop talking. In fact, one girl kept going on about how she can't stand all of the drama in her life and I told her she must like it because she keeps hanging out with the same people. She then said but she loves her friends and I told her she then needed better boundaries. Well you now it all ended pretty quickly after that.

Anyway, you, I me, we're not alone. I've read articles from people that have said the same thing. They walk into a crowded party and find the one most unlikely person in the entire room and it's the same type they always seem to pick. I wish I knew the answer.. I'm calling today for an appointment so if I pick up any insights I will absolutely let you know.
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« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 07:07:45 AM by gman242 »

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Wife's MLC 17
#141: June 30, 2020, 09:21:57 AM
I've found that when women approached me, they often wanted something from me and I found that to be true online too.

Are we men any different  :o?   

And TBH, I'd be very worried if the person who I was approached did not know or tell what he/she wanted of me.  The sooner they can spit out what they (genuinely) want from me, the better IMHO.

Alvin.
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Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
Me: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD ("I don't love you"): Feb 2019, 
BD2 ("I don't want to fix this marriage."... I'm filing for D): May 2020
Kids (at time of BD): G19,G18,G14,G12,S5


*** Every person on the planet is like you - a human being, most likely doing the best they can. Some are just more in control of themself than others ***
*** There are things you control and things you can't control, but what you can control is your attitude towards things you can't control. ***
*** “Rivers know this: There is no hurry, we shall get there some day.” ***
**** Security is mostly a superstition...Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ***

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Wife's MLC 17
#142: June 30, 2020, 10:08:30 AM
You know Alvin, I think most people want a connection. But there are some who want a savior. Or a sounding board. Or a validation person. And the ones who want those things don't even realize it a lot of times, I think. Now, if someone walked up to me and said "I need you to listen and validate me." Then I could say "Yes, I have the bandwidth for that"  or "I can't do that right now". When my (what I believe) MLC/MLT friend calls,  that is always what she wants (She was not like this before). Always complaining the world is out to get her and she's doing the "right" "things. Since I know this about her, I have boundaries, but she never calls and says "I need to whine and complain about my perceived injustices and I want you to tell me I'm right". Because she doesn't realize how out of line she is.

Like the woman who pushed gman. Maybe she had a valid complaint (I'm not saying she did, just as an example). Maybe he stopped in a place that blocked her view but instead of saying "Excuse me. I don't think you realize it, but you are blocking my  view. Would you move to the left/right/out the door whatever." she was rude. Rude was on her, but how to deal with rude is on gman as he indicates. Dealing with rude is confrontation, and not what you expect or want from a night out.

I grew up being told that I was average , just like everyone else, and why should I get special priveleges. So for a very long time, I thought everyone thought like I did, I was like everyone else, right?  Not so much, but it's still difficult to fathom that others can be so rude, self centered, inarticulate, clueless. 

So yes, if someone can tell you what they want, great. They just have to know what it is first.

ETA: And be willing and or able to convey it. Some people will know what they want and still hide their agenda.
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« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 11:39:04 AM by OffRoad »
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

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#143: July 01, 2020, 02:08:02 AM
True words, OR.   Most people want genuine connection underneath all the "excuses"...   And that is where the attachment model plays a major role  Those with secure attachment can and do say what they want and what they  are willing to pay.  But the further away from secure you get, the further firetrucked up things get.  Anxious-pre-occupied is like a person who gives everything away to receive some; and the avoidants are the opposite.   Givers and takers like they say. Whereas the healhty balance would be give+take.

Maybe I'm becoming bit cynical, but I'm beginning to think the no-emotional no-BS perspective on ALL human relationships (even with kids) is that they are essentually trade of assets.  You give some, you get some. Whether or not it's affordable to keep business going depends entirely on how well both of you include each other's needs. Just like in real business. You supply good stuff and you get a green pass;  You supply bad stuff and you are quickly out of business.... All we can do is take care of our side of street: learn to recognize what we need, learn to tell what need, learn to set boundaries if we don't get what we need, learn to listen what others need, learn to provide what others need, learn to keep some kind of "balance book"....  it's a lot of work.

Alvin.

PS.  And as hindsight... I'm pretty sure W wanted a saviour.   And I was one for a lot of years  - until one day I wasn't...  Because it never was my job to be her  saviour. She needs to be her own hero (the same way I need to be mine).... lesson learned.
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« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 02:13:40 AM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
Me: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD ("I don't love you"): Feb 2019, 
BD2 ("I don't want to fix this marriage."... I'm filing for D): May 2020
Kids (at time of BD): G19,G18,G14,G12,S5


*** Every person on the planet is like you - a human being, most likely doing the best they can. Some are just more in control of themself than others ***
*** There are things you control and things you can't control, but what you can control is your attitude towards things you can't control. ***
*** “Rivers know this: There is no hurry, we shall get there some day.” ***
**** Security is mostly a superstition...Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ***

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Wife's MLC 17
#144: July 01, 2020, 11:09:14 AM
Alvin if yo u're approaching someone, at least in a dating scenario, I think the only agenda you should have is to have an open mind. You know, just wait and see if you have anything in common, if there's any chemistry etc. What I meant is women who approach me, often have it built up in their minds already that we're already together or that I already like them back and when we talk, there's already expectations on their part that i need to fulfill.

I agree with you that the transaction should be show up and say "this is what I offer". However, I think it tends to be a lot like "I'm hoping you have want I want to take from you". At least in my experience and in OffRoads post, it seems like a lot of our relationships are defined by what people are going to expect from us. Offroad, do you find that you have friends that you avoid or you wait until they contact you, because it's always the one or two needs or expectations they are going to contact you about anyway?

I have one friend in particular, he always contacts me because he needs my advice on something and I just wait until he inevitably calls me. I have another friend I enjoy talking to, but I can be a bit slack in contacting her, because often I get the idea she's just waiting patiently for me to finish talking so she can tell me whatever she wants,

I feel like,, if I was going to be with someone, the person I want to be with is someone I can talk to on an equal give take basis and the other person is excited to bring things to the discussion. XW and I were like that and that was one of the first things I liked about her. Even after she moved in with OM, she was still texting me about articles she read or something she wanted to tell and talk to me about.

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I grew up being told that I was average , just like everyone else, and why should I get special priveleges. So for a very long time, I thought everyone thought like I did, I was like everyone else, right?  Not so much, but it's still difficult to fathom that others can be so rude, self centered, inarticulate, clueless.

I had the same problem.. I haven't been and still am not good at being able to put people on a spectrum.. you know, that person is a give, this person is selfish, that person controls information and manipulates. I would chalk everything that happened like that to me just deserving it and I never really learned the subtitles of human interactions either because I was a bit further down the ladder than you though. I was told I wasn't as good as other people and that they were all better than me, more right, happier and so on. I developed an intense fear of missing out that caused me to stay in situations, places, groups, events and with people far longer than I should have and I learned to silence my inner critic, intuition and voice of reason.

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ETA: And be willing and or able to convey it. Some people will know what they want and still hide their agenda.

I need help with this one. The only thing I know now, is that when I'm able to have a reciprocal conversation with someone, they're lying or are going to take advantage of me, or manipulate me in some way. Being able to talk and carry on a conversation is important to me in a relationship or friendship. I don't want to be in one where it feels like someone is just waiting or is pushing to get their needs met first.

But anyway, I don't understand why conversational people are the ones that end up manipulating me. I get that at in being so, they can hide and mask their intentions and learn my flaws and weaknesses and that's what makes them good manipulators. But I just don't understand why I don't seem to meet someone who can have a conversation but isn't like that. I also understand that most relationships, platonic or otherwise, are going to have a power imbalance, I don't want it too far off either. My needs need to be met too. I can't live in a vacuum while meeting someone else's.

Anyway, this is all stuff I hope an IC can shed some light on.

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Like the woman who pushed gman. Maybe she had a valid complaint (I'm not saying she did, just as an example). Maybe he stopped in a place that blocked her view but instead of saying "Excuse me. I don't think you realize it, but you are blocking my  view. Would you move to the left/right/out the door whatever." she was rude. Rude was on her,

I think her exact words were "how can you just stand there like that?" I think she was shocked that I wasn't dancing or kinda of swaying to the beat I guess. If she were trying to look for an intro or something that would have been a good one. She could have asked if I was having a good time or not. I have found that when someone is displaying um, different behavior, for lack of a better word, just being friendly has been a great way to get people to open up, learn different things, make new friends and one way or the other, let people know that other people care about them. .

However, this lady's werewolf dancing was obviously mocking. Maybe you're right Off Road, there's a high road and a low road to take and it's a choice we all face and most people just take the low, self serving one.

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« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 11:12:11 AM by gman242 »

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Wife's MLC 17
#145: July 01, 2020, 01:34:21 PM
Offroad, do you find that you have friends that you avoid or you wait until they contact you, because it's always the one or two needs or expectations they are going to contact you about anyway?
I can say for sure my MLC/MLT friend is that way. We used to have a mutually satisfying friendship. And then I watched her slowing ending up where she is. I've even asked her "What happened to you? You never used to be so insecure?" She only calls because she knows I will listen, there is never anything good in her life, and while she might ask how I am doing, it is apparent she doesn't care as she never (and I do mean NEVER) has any back and forth. It's like she is waiting for me to finish a monologue so she can talk. Then she starts talking, looping on the same things for up to three hours. So I have to have crafts in hand and put her on speakerphone. She obviously needs to talk to someone, and if my being her wall works and I have the bandwidth, we had a good friendship for many years so I can manage for the time being. But I don't call her because I know what I'm going to get. And she knows I won't pull my punches, so she doesn't call as often.

So short answer, yes.

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I had the same problem.. I haven't been and still am not good at being able to put people on a spectrum.. you know, that person is a give, this person is selfish, that person controls information and manipulates. I would chalk everything that happened like that to me just deserving it and I never really learned the subtitles of human interactions either because I was a bit further down the ladder than you though. I was told I wasn't as good as other people and that they were all better than me, more right, happier and so on. I developed an intense fear of missing out that caused me to stay in situations, places, groups, events and with people far longer than I should have and I learned to silence my inner critic, intuition and voice of reason.
BBM. That just makes me cry, gman.  Once I realized I wasn't average (sometime in my 30s), I was pretty angry that my mother kept telling me I was average. I mean, other parents thought their kids were the bees knees, so if I was only average, how terrible must I be compared to them? I'd like to hope I did better with my kids, though my D does say "You told me I could do anything, be anything I was willing to work for. My confidence level is off the charts and that seems to be a problem for some people." Sometimes you just can't win.  ;D

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But anyway, I don't understand why conversational people are the ones that end up manipulating me. I get that at in being so, they can hide and mask their intentions and learn my flaws and weaknesses and that's what makes them good manipulators. But I just don't understand why I don't seem to meet someone who can have a conversation but isn't like that. I also understand that most relationships, platonic or otherwise, are going to have a power imbalance, I don't want it too far off either. My needs need to be met too. I can't live in a vacuum while meeting someone else's.

Anyway, this is all stuff I hope an IC can shed some light on.
Ask for a Narcissist identification decoder ring. I'd buy one.

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I think her exact words were "how can you just stand there like that?"
Were you just standing there...menacingly? Sorry, couldn't resist.

This works for if you want to stand there or not. No one gets to control you.  :)
I got no strings, to hold me down, to make me fret, or make me frown....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAykOz1gWi4

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« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 01:35:33 PM by OffRoad »
When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

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Wife's MLC 17
#146: July 01, 2020, 02:06:53 PM
Maybe I'm becoming bit cynical, but I'm beginning to think the no-emotional no-BS perspective on ALL human relationships (even with kids) is that they are essentually trade of assets.  You give some, you get some. Whether or not it's affordable to keep business going depends entirely on how well both of you include each other's needs. Just like in real business. You supply good stuff and you get a green pass;  You supply bad stuff and you are quickly out of business.... All we can do is take care of our side of street: learn to recognize what we need, learn to tell what need, learn to set boundaries if we don't get what we need, learn to listen what others need, learn to provide what others need, learn to keep some kind of "balance book"....  it's a lot of work.
Actually, I agree that a relationship is quite like a business, though I'm not sure "Balance book" works in my mind. I get that there needs to be a balance, but the balance can lean one way or the other. IMO, with kids you give far more than you get on most days, but if you get ENOUGH, then it's OK.

Now I know for myself, my enough is so much less than most people's "enough". I'm pretty close to a no maintenance person. I maintain myself just fine. But that is also a problem. If no one can see that they have anything to offer you because you can manage yourself, then what is there for them to do? And no one asks what I need, they simply assume I need nothing. This leave me with no choice but to ask when I need something, and then somehow it's like I now "owe" the other person something. Is that real, or just in my mind? I'm not sure, but I find I ask for very little. It's not worth the "balance".  ;)
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When life gives you lemons, make SALSA!

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#147: July 01, 2020, 10:07:12 PM
Now I know for myself, my enough is so much less than most people's "enough". I'm pretty close to a no maintenance person. I maintain myself just fine. But that is also a problem. If no one can see that they have anything to offer you because you can manage yourself, then what is there for them to do? And no one asks what I need, they simply assume I need nothing.

I'm lot of the same..."give me some physical+emotional intimacy and I'm forever yours, no building instructions required" kind of guy, LOL. Of course I have no objections if some becomes more... But practical needs, nah, they are close to zilch.

Interestingly/oddly... STBXW had all the characteristics I wanted from girl (non-smoker, non-drinker, likes and wants kids, had no pets, is kind & warm hearted & honest, likes rural life, shares similar interests, funny, sexy...  she matched every want/need I had from gal and went even beyond).  As hindsight I think some of those were not genuine (honest - nope, I now know she lied some things of her past;  kind/warm hearted - not to degree I expected but that's on me;  similar interests - don't know what happened there, maybe they were once genuine, maybe part of play).

Not really sure if "being independent" is a shelter mechanism (not becoming/being vulnerable) or sign of maturity/strength.

Maybe it's bit of both and nothing more than matter of perspective...

This leave me with no choice but to ask when I need something, and then somehow it's like I now "owe" the other person something. Is that real, or just in my mind?

I'm just another sample of one, and I don't have this...it's okey for me to ask what I need, and if they give it to me, the I don't feel like I owe anything. Because me asking is also me giving.....and over time I know I will reprocicate plentily (you take care of me, and I'll take care of you - balancebook)...


Alvin.
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« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 11:43:34 PM by AlvinTheMaker »
Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
Me: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD ("I don't love you"): Feb 2019, 
BD2 ("I don't want to fix this marriage."... I'm filing for D): May 2020
Kids (at time of BD): G19,G18,G14,G12,S5


*** Every person on the planet is like you - a human being, most likely doing the best they can. Some are just more in control of themself than others ***
*** There are things you control and things you can't control, but what you can control is your attitude towards things you can't control. ***
*** “Rivers know this: There is no hurry, we shall get there some day.” ***
**** Security is mostly a superstition...Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. ***

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Wife's MLC 17
#148: July 08, 2020, 06:53:56 PM
Hey all! Hope all is well.. I'm good, except that it is way too hot here. The kind of hot and it rains and it just gets hotter, hot?  :P

Anyway, I want to follow up here and this is really difficult for me to do, or to decide how to do. I decided to do it here, because it's also going to fall into a thinking out post about myself.

So I talked to my sister on the phone the other day, after playing phone tag for about a week and I was telling her the story about xw coming over and getting me out into the driveway and just kind of chatting me up, that I posted about earlier and we just laughed about it. It was just one of those, "OMG and she did what? No way!" and it was really a lot of fun just to catch up with her.

I totally didn't even tell you guys about the really wacky and a bit out there, political stickers she had on her car. Obviously she got them from OM, but she tried to pass it off as just needing something on her car so she could tell it apart from others. It was just hilarious because we weren't like that and it just makes it harder to believe that her being with OM was about "love" or whatever.

But anyway.. a few days later it hit me that the way I talked to my sister about it, was the way I meant it when I wrote in the post above. Please, don't take this personally, as I only mean it as constructive criticism, but when Thunder said that I was focusing too much on XW, I don't think it was fair and I do think it was a bit too harsh. As I mentioned, I've said numerous times here that I'm not a good story teller, when I'm staring into a blank box and I've made so much progress I feel like I deserve either the benefit of the doubt or possibly a follow up question about the post, to see if it was simply misinterpretation.

But what really bothered me was that I felt put in a position where I had to defend myself and I ended up posting two huge posts that were mostly written in anxiety. Again, long story short, I'm not dating because I react one way or the other and I end up giving away both my self control and my power over the situation when I do that. It's something I've recognized that I do and I'm doing a lot of work in correcting it and so I guess this post is a part of that work. But no, I don't think it was fair and I feel hurt that it was something I could have been talked to or asked about instead.

The personality test was just an academic interest and watching Xw chat me up was just hilarious.. a couple weeks ago, the last time before she came over, she made a huge show about smugly telling me "have a good night, we have to go" and rolling up the window on me. I just said see ya and went in the house. It's just obvious she's looking to get a reaction from me one way or the other. I shared a laugh about it with my sister and that's all I wanted to share with you guys here. Like I said, I'm just not the best story teller because this blank, white box just isn't a good audience. It'd be different if I could get you all on the phone!





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« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 06:56:06 PM by gman242 »

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Re: Wife's MLC 17
#149: July 08, 2020, 09:19:55 PM
Gman, you never have to defend yourself to me.  My goodness.

If I came off harsh in any way I am very sorry.  I truly never intended that.   You are not  someone I would ever intentionally offend.

I think you have made tremendous progress...more than most.

It's like 1000 degrees here too.   :P
Hopefully we cool down some here soon.

Have a good night, Gman.
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
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