[Treasur]

And that's perfectly ok, FJ.
It seems to me that events are probably causing many of us to consider some of our beliefs and assumptions about how our own countries work and others as look at different ways of handling this crisis. And some of that includes trying to understand different experiences and perspectives to our own.

Most nations have a balancing point about government activity vs individual activity. And a global and national crisis of this kind obviously raises questions about both.  Of course our individual countries have their own cultures and their own histories too. I have always found it interesting to look at those quirks as an outsider as well as hear how others see the quirks of my home country. And all nations have aspects that puzzle outsiders perhaps but make sense to those that live there probably. I still remember someone saying to me that they found it strange that so many people in England (bc different bits of the UK do have differences  ) could be more friendly than his image of them....yet would rarely invite you to their home even if you knew them quite well and socialised often. Or why they seem to drink and swear a lot while also being strangely polite in other ways like queuing. Or why we placed such importance on things like the aristocracy/monarchy or very old buildings that didn't really meet the needs of modern life when at the same time we seemed to really value an 'egalitarian access' healthcare system and loved our modern technology!

One of the issues that I suspect, even now, would probably be a step too far for most in the UK would be something that felt like carrying some kind of virtual identity papers that you had to use to access places. There is a deep kind of discomfort with that which is probably a function of our own history, a suspicion of that kind of central government control over some kinds of information.....although we probably take comfort that control is assuaged by incompetence lol. Oh, and access to outside space too probably....again perhaps an old residue from feudal times and the concept of common land. I have no idea if these attitudes will change as a consequence of this crisis. Or how we will balance our inherent hypocrisy of cheering with love for the NHS but not much liking the idea of high tax rates bc we believed historically that they reduce enterprise and cause highly skilled people to work elsewhere. But I guess different times and a different generation may prioritise differently.....who knows.

America I think is still viewed as an important global power, both culturally and economically. (And truthfully we could all probably do with learning rather more about China as a global economic power too.) Hence perhaps why some of us living elsewhere ask questions to try to understand things that might puzzle us sometimes or feel concerned about how changes in the US might affect global issues that affect our countries too. And of course many of us might have a limited experience of the diversity of things in a country as large as the US. (I still remember Ames, Iowa as a truly strange place full of incredibly nice friendly people who expected me to be interested in hybrid corn and jello salad options....very different from Washington where I'd come from or Houston where I was flying to next!)

[Nerissa]

Here is simple and clear information  for the lay person.  It’s UK centric  but the science shared is from around the World.

https://www.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/coronavirus-exit-strategies/

Collated by this man who is a career scientist but also experienced in explaining science to the public through having been  editor of New Scientist and a Professor of Public Engagement.

https://www.rogerhighfield.com/about


And then this At Johns Hopkins in the US:

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/news

[OldPilot]

I have work to do, and do not have anymore time to devote to this.  I agree to disagree with you all♥️

You dont disagree with me, I just dont have the time to devote to it either.

[Nerissa]

I have work to do, and do not have anymore time to devote to this.  I agree to disagree with you all♥️

You dont disagree with me, I just dont have the time to devote to it either.

Here’s a piece I think will garner agreement.

https://www.dalailama.com/news/2020/prayer-is-not-enough-the-dalai-lama-on-why-we-need-to-fight-coronavirus-with-compassion/amp?__twitter_impression=true

[Treasur]

Thank you for those interesting links, Nerissa.

[Finding Joy]

Thank you Treasure!  We also have vast opinions here and perceptions.  Our country is changing and many of us do not like the change, which I think may be why an attack dog was voted in to lead.  We are a divided nation.  I also believe we are a nation who’s tired of being picked apart by the rest of the world.  Or should I say, many of us are.  The half of the country that I tend to side with is fiercely independent, entrepreneurs, hard workers, they believe in individual rights and individual responsibility, a small government,  making your own way, etc.  It’s that pesky other half...😉. I do not see us carrying papers to get around either.

I ended up doing night homework with the kiddies because I messed around here and at the store too long!  I don’t really have time for this kind of discussion, so lesson learned!  ❤️

Thank you Nerissa and Old Pilot!❤️

[lawprofessor]

I do appreciate the discussion that's been had here, messy though it was at times   

For me, I'm approaching the virus in much the same way I approached MLC. 

1.  It is happening.
2.  I can't control or change that fact.
3.  All I can control is my reaction.
4.  I get to decide how this does or does not change (define) me and my life, goals, hopes, and dreams.

Collect data/information
Try to square that with beliefs
Contrast/compare others beliefs
Accept that I have very little control
Decide important lessons/impact I will allow it to have
Look to the future
Reflect on ways to help others

Events like this can help us focus in on defining what is most important, to more clearly define our personal  core beliefs, to encourage us to see that what once appeared to be the only issue of importance can be knocked down in importance in the virtual blink of an eye. 

Obviously for me, truth, respect, honor, dignity are core values so qualities I seek in troubling times from a leader that engender trust and security.  Those are also the qualities I once found in my ex pre-MLC.  When in MLC he blew up those qualities and I believe this is a partial answer to why I have no interest in rekindling a relationship of any sort with him.  I would say this is a difference between a stuck part and honing a core belief. My core belief system  was uncovered and redefined DURING his MLC, but it was not controlled or defined BY MLC.  It's a core belief I won't sacrifice or I'll risk losing a part of myself.  It is one of the positives, the blessings to have come from his MLC

To the future,
I'm done shopping on Amazon and eBay buying Chinese made things because they are inexpensive, convenient.

I'm doing some home projects.  If I'm having to stay home in the future, I want a place of comfort and refuge to enjoy.  To that end, FLOWERS!!  TREES!! BIRDS!!! 

I'm planning now how to rebuild my businesses.  No sense looking at the past when I have too much to do today for the future.

I agreed to participate in a local government group concerning property tax issues.

I will begin to donate time/services to the local homeless shelter that has been so ravaged by the virus. 

Good luck to you all,

Lp

[Treasur]

Events like this can help us focus in on defining what is most important, to more clearly define our personal  core beliefs, to encourage us to see that what once appeared to be the only issue of importance can be knocked down in importance in the virtual blink of an eye. 

Can only agree with this. I too see the similarities in lining up with my core beliefs rather than the Stuck parts, just took a while to get there post PTSD 

Like you, focusing on what I believe in and value, what I can control and how to support others while accepting the limits of my knowledge and current realities feels like an ok way to go. Counting my blessings too. Focusing on the next normal while adapting to the current new normal, I guess.

[marvin4242]

Everyone seems quick to find fault with the US, we have plenty, but so do other countries.  People who are not native to here, come, stay and complain....

The stay part is puzzling to me if where you come from is better.

Interesting, so we are free, but not free to criticize the shortcoming of this country because we were not born here? So freedom has different levels based on birth? Or is it by how many generations? Or is it by what we believe? I am a bit confused. I mean its ok to have freedom to spread the virus and to block hospital access by some, but those of us who point out how we can have a better society should simply leave and go back because we were not born here. Interesting take. Considering in my opinion the ONLY unique characteristic of the US system WAS that citizenship was absolute and equal (with one exception) when granted, whether by birth or by choice. In fact I would say those of us who CHOSE citizenship made a very conscious and aware decision, we didn’t fall into it. And FJ “ways of life” always change in all societies, trying to hold on to what was has never worked. Also in a country as broad and diverse as the US there has never been a single “way of life” in the history of the entire country. We are not a homogenous group, we have never been. So I am not sure which “way of life” you are referring to.

As for government controlling your wallet: this is another one of those false repeated stories. Taxes are not control, taxes are the cost of having a FUNCTIONING society. It is not theft. It is not a punishment. No we don’t have a right to keep all our money AND live in a society. There can be very good conversations to be had around the balance of tax vs services, what we collectively want, etc. And we used to have those many years ago. Now its just people shouting about “theft” while still wanting to have the security of a safe country, roads, services and a good quality of life. It seems a bit entitled to want to keep your money and to have things for free at the same time. Also it puzzles me, we live in a country where it is the government of the people by the people. We vote, we decide, we are in control only IF we educate ourselves and vote. So how can the government be our enemy? We are the ones who have made it the way it is, we the voters have all the power. How we choose to exercise that is another matter.

I think this Covid pandemic would be a great opportunity to see the strength and weaknesses of societies we live in, then try to make them better. If we are not just concerned with our limited self interest we would see how we are stronger always as INDIVIDUALS within GROUPS. Individuals can’t care for themselves when sick, individuals can’t be experts in all fields, its not individuals that are saving lives and making breakthroughs every day, it is TEAMS of people. If you stop thinking of the government as the enemy you may even realize that at times like this government is POOLING our common resources to help all of us, economically, medically and by guidance. Or at least it should be, and is in most places.

I think what makes a place great is the ability of its citizens to be honest about themselves and always want better. Not just pretend it is flawless and perfect. That is what third world dictatorships do, look at N Kora and Russia. Great societies own their strengths and acknowledge and correct their weaknesses.

Nerissa: thanks for the excellent informative links. What we need is more information and knowledge and less opinion to get through this as well as we can.

LP: thank you for some great food for thought.

[marvin4242]

Just came across this article, it is very preliminary and it will be interesting to see if the finding it borne out with more data. The source paper studies both how asymptomatic transmission as carrier showed the same viral load as someone who had symptoms. And how one boy with multiple viruses passed on the non Covid one to his siblings, but not the Covid virus which suggests kids are not good spreaders. I wonder if this is what is behind the talk about reopening schools up to around age 14 or so?

Of course this is one cluster study, but it will be interesting to find out if this is being found to be the case generally. In that case the whole question of schools reopening may have a different angle to it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/boy-with-covid-19-did-not-transmit-disease-to-more-than-170-contacts