[Treasur]

Some interesting discussions on the JAMA YouTube channel with some reputable and knowledgeable scientists and doctors https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aGbv5QQV6MI

What strikes me most is how clear they are that in virus time, if not for us humans, it is still early days and there is a lot that they do not yet know for sure....but are working hard to figure out.

[xyzcf]

I would like to suggest everyone separate out their beliefs from facts and knowledge, specially when it comes to health and well being of others. Viruses and health are NOT political discussions, they are NOT open to ones "viewpoint." This is part of the reason why we are now about to tip into crises in certain parts of the US while other countries are well into social and economic recovery.

This is pure gold. Thank you marvin.

I guess you all think this is fake too

this disturbed me when I read it this morning 

With all the issues with this virus, the idea that there is some kind of conspiracy to prevent people from getting correct information alarms me.

What strikes me most is how clear they are that in virus time, if not for us humans, it is still early days and there is a lot that they do not yet know for sure....but are working hard to figure out

There are so many things we do not know about the human body. It's reaction to this virus is quite different than any virus that I know of and we are learning all the time, and things that they thought work are being shown that there may be a better way...for example, ventilators are not being used as frequently as it has been found that other measures to deliver oxygen may work better.

I recently watched a special on the use of probiotics, especially to prevent diarrhea when given antibiotics...2 highly respectable physicians studying this for years with completely opposing conclusions regarding the use of probiotics which are now even being "added" to baby formula and baby foods...there is no regulation to their use in infant formula and who knows what the long term side effects might be from adding these to baby food?

I am sorry OP that you contracted the virus and I too would be worried about the long term sequelae.

With the reviews I have read about Hydroxychloroquine and the serious side effects, plus the studies that show no proof that it helps, I would not be rushing out to take it. That's my belief, others would be willing to take that chance.

[marvin4242]

Actually it seems the Henry Ford study may have flaws, it was not randomized. Patients who received  hydroxychloroquine were much more likely to also get steroids which has shown to be effective. The same group apparently wants to perform a larger truly random study.

This is only getting attention because of the Presidents obsession with a drug that doesn't work, and he tweeted about it. It has no scientific backing and it’s flaws have been noted by other practitioners.

I don’t understand this obsession and politicization of a medical issue.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/08/a-flawed-covid-19-study-gets-the-white-houses-attention-and-the-fda-may-pay-the-price/

[Mitzpah]

This is only getting attention because of the Presidents obsession with a drug that doesn't work, and he tweeted about it. It has no scientific backing and it’s flaws have been noted by other practitioners.

I don’t understand this obsession and politicization of a medical issue.

This is happening here in Brazil, too.

The president of this country is having ECGs twice (!!!) a day while on this drug in order to predict possible heart complications - when you consider that the great majority of the population has to wait weeks or months to have one ECG...

There seems to be an obssession with proving that this drug is the panacea, miracle drug, cure all - smh

[marvin4242]

And in the world of real science great new large scale study of risk factors for mortality with Covid-19.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/07/09/1004935/these-are-the-factors-that-put-you-at-higher-risk-of-dying-from-covid-19/?utm_source=digg

The conclusion:

“ What they found: As we knew, age is the single biggest indicator of whether someone is likely to die from the coronavirus, and the risk increases sharply among those over 80. People older than 80 were hundreds of times more likely to die than people under 40, and more than 90% of deaths in England were in people over 60. Men were more likely to die than women of the same age: they accounted for 60% of all deaths. People with underlying medical conditions like obesity, diabetes, severe asthma, and cardiovascular disease were at higher risk, as were people with lower incomes.”

[terra]

So, I work in the sciences and pharma, and some of the big corporate names you’ve heard in the news about vaccines or tests or antibodies, I’ve been either working for or tapped to work for during this pandemic.

I will tell you that right now all those environments are a pure mess and that no matter how smart or hard anyone is working to establish any solution, the proofing of any solution requires TIME. Period.

Locally, we are not about to accept any result into our own individual bodies until the testing has been completed in a safe and reasonable way, and will instead wait until the proofing has all been proven to hold.

I am in full agreement that science and viruses are not political. Arguing about real and fake in this one respect is sort of like having a cow about whether this or that OTC medication has any effect on your chronic headaches. It does, and if it doesn’t, obviously you’re going to consult a medical professional to find out why or to learn what else will help you.

If the medical professional tells you to stop drinking caffeine, eating chocolate and cheese, or banging your head against the wall, hopefully you will stop doing those things and then voila! Not so many headaches.

If you trust science and medical professionals at least that far — and I’m not judging anyone here, honestly your beliefs and practices only really matter if they live in my house, which I know they don’t — I don’t see why there is any pushback against science and medicine about *this*, when this is such a larger and wider health concern.

You couldn’t pay me to try hydroxychloroquine, for anything. That recommendation came from a marketing professional. In my entire career, we make a distinction between the marketing and the facts. No shame on marketing folks; just, the source of the actual information you need is going to say something very different.

It’s sad that the USA is so deeply divided on this and other issues. I don’t see the same divisions at all, in reporting or personal accounts from any other country in the world.

[Thunder]

Terra,

I have an answer for you but I don't want to go there on this thread.
This is about the Coronavirus and should stay that way.

Just facts and information sharing.  It should not be political.  This virus doesn't care who you voted for.  We're all in this together.

I will say the vast majority of Americans do believe in science though, trust me.

[terra]

Thunder, HUGS. I’m just giving my perspective from within the sciences and pharma development environments. Like the virus itself, that perspective is not about politics. It’s a loose insight into the state of things in those environments at this time, with a reminder that in order for any medical device or treatment to be proven safe, it has to be tested and retested and proven before release to any public, and that these things can’t be rushed. And that only the source of the information is the best source of the information. I hope you will let my previous post stay on this thread and as originally written.

[xyzcf]

I disagree with you Thunder. In the US, COVID is treated as a political issue, not a public health crisis as it is in many countries that have been successful in decreasing the number of cases and deaths.

The rage that people have about wearing a mask, a simple and effective public health measure that has been proven over and over again to stop the spread of the virus ...all because they believe that wearing a mask goes against "their" freedom (and they don't give a damn about the freedom of others to not be infected )is appalling to me.

This is about the Coronavirus and should stay that way.

It would be impossible to discuss COVID and what is happening in this country without politics coming into the conversation. The lack of clear leadership on how to handle the virus has caused immense unnecessary deaths and number of cases. Individual states, who have governor's that follow CDC guidelines and defer to experts in infectious diseases and epidemiology are ones that have a handle on dealing with this.

You couldn’t pay me to try hydroxychloroquine, for anything. That recommendation came from a marketing professional. In my entire career, we make a distinction between the marketing and the facts. No shame on marketing folks; just, the source of the actual information you need is going to say something very different.

Thanks Terra, that speaks volumes!

I hope you will let my previous post stay on this thread and as originally written.

Terra, there was absolutely NOTHING in your post that would require it being removed.

I thank you for your perspective on how the pharmaceutical industry is approaching this.

[Thunder]

Xyzcf I am not disagreeing with you at all, I don't really think you are either. We may share very much the same opinions, politically on this.  I just said this has been way too politically driven by SOME on this thread.  I only said it "shouldn't be."

I refrained from saying much because I didn't want to offend anyone who may have different political views than me.

Maybe it might be better to steer this away from political views and stick to facts.  Scientific facts about this virus or just important information or studies being done.

I am a political junkie and have other sites where I feel free to put my political views out there.

I just didn't think HS was the right platform for it. 

Dear Terra, nothing you said was reason to delete your post.  No worries.  : )
I welcome your input.

I do feel a little like Milly here, though.
She has great pride in her country, as do I.  Derogatory remarks about someone's country/homeland should really be off the table in my opinion, unless it adds to the discussion of the Coronaviras in some pertinent way.