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Author Topic: My Story Love Me, Don't Leave Me

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My Story Re: Love Me, Don't Leave Me
#40: May 28, 2020, 06:32:13 PM
LBS_Les: that is a great view imho. I am at the same place, three years out I really am not looking for her to “come back to us,” as she has no role in my life. But I really want her to find her way back to herself, her happiness, and become a coherent content person. Like you I know she is a kind soul.

And before she can get back to herself there is nothing else to really focus on, because even if there is ever an “us” it won’t be a consideration until that important step.
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Re: Love Me, Don't Leave Me
#41: June 04, 2020, 05:12:17 PM
LBS_Les: that is a great view imho. I am at the same place, three years out I really am not looking for her to “come back to us,” as she has no role in my life. But I really want her to find her way back to herself, her happiness, and become a coherent content person. Like you I know she is a kind soul.

And before she can get back to herself there is nothing else to really focus on, because even if there is ever an “us” it won’t be a consideration until that important step.

Thanks Marvin.  Ill admit, my stomach sinks when I read that its been 3 years.....my gosh, where would I even be in the time?  But thats what I have done my whole life, tried to plan how life is going to work.   This MLC and pandemic has taught me, I have no control.  I don't know what tomorrow brings, and thinking that my W and I would still be disconnected in 3 years, scares me.   But Im working through living each day in the present.   I've been good with it, but I have my moments.

Ive had a rough couple of days.  Its amazing how we, as the LBS, also cycle.  My mom called me the other day since I went radio silence on her for a couple of days.  Im in a place.  Im working on letting her go, but Im definitely in a place.  My mom said "we need to get you out of this rut and back where you were", and thats when I knew I was learning.  I told my mother that MLC's go through a cycle, as do the LBS.  I will have my good days and my bad days, but when I have my bad days, I slowly close a door behind me.  What is this, acceptance?  I believe thats an MLC stage where they may retreat but slowly close the door each time they tunnel?  Im there.  Im sad, Im happy, Im angry, but Im here.   Every time I catch myself feeling sorry for myself, I remind me that its okay to feel, its okay to be here, and just let it happen.  And every time I do this, I close the door on an element of darkness and rebound, if only for a day or two.

I'm on my balcony, having a beer, anticipating whether or not my W will text me on my birthday, or if she's so far gone in the fog, that she doesn't know what day it is.  There is a tree in my view, just off to the left.   I notice it because my balcony faces the sunset, so naturally, my glance is towards the sunset and the tree is just to the left of it.  Something draws me to the tree.   It has so many branches, so many leaves.   And I realize, life is like a tree.  You plant a seed but you cannot plan the direction in which it grows, how many branches it may have, how thin, or full it may be.  I note another tree on my right, this one big, as big as the tree in the sunset.  Only it has many broken branches and detours.

I don't know which tree I am, but Im oddly connected to them all.
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Love Me, Don't Leave Me
#42: June 05, 2020, 06:43:45 PM
I'm annoyed.   

I have had several dreams about my W (STBXW since I don't know if I am standing).  Every time they happen, I wake up the next day in such a funk.

Last night, I collapsed in my dream state.  She said all the right words, we were intimate and I jumped on the BS she spewed.  I said "we can read through all these books and articles and make it right" and in my dream state, she was receptive, I was elated, but when I woke?  Disappointed. Disappointed that I had so easily caved, disappointed that I gave her that power. 

Is this acceptance?  Is this moving on?  This isn't the first dream in which she had a response to which I reacted and woke up feeling angry at myself.  Angry for letting her off so easily.

Is this my life?

Feel free to chime in.   I try not to hold on to these dreams, but I will admit that they do let me beat myself up.

I don't miss my Wife, but I do, and these stupid dreams seems to be a constant reminder that I cant outrun what I think to be true.
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« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 06:46:16 PM by LBS_Les »
Me (W) 43 - W 41
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Re: Love Me, Don't Leave Me
#43: June 05, 2020, 08:15:39 PM
LBS_Les: I think you have great insights, and honestly are doing great. What if you give yourself space and time and allow yourself to parse this as you need? What I mean is instead of wondering about the dream, and feeling angry afterward what if you simply accept the dream as is?

We can be in very conflicted states as we work through complex emotions. You can both NOT miss your wife and still WANT to be with her. You can have a wish fulfillment dream, yet you can at the same time see that it may be a lie (kind of like anything she may say).

Your life is simply where you are now, how honest you are with yourself, how much you allow yourself to feel, grieve, honor the past and let it go (see another complex and seemingly contradictory state), be fearful and hopeful for a different future.

I think we all find a time of transition, where we are swirling in what was, and what is not yet here. It may be moving from state to state or even existing in both at times. Its all ok, as long as you are kind to yourself, allow yourself the permission to be where you are.

Your own insight and understanding is a great strength and your guide. Let you intellect “understand” and let your emotions process. I sometimes call this a state of being unmoored, you are not where you were, but have not yet set a direction. But you are just fine. It takes time.
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Love Me, Don't Leave Me
#44: June 05, 2020, 10:26:30 PM
Hi Les,

The dreams can be there a really long time. For me they have stopped only recently (15+ months), all those nights between I saw dreams of us two talking, working things out

Listen to them. Learn from them. Feel them. They are part of the system that helps your body and mind deal with the trauma.

Alvin.
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Together - 20½ Years, Married 19 Years
Me: 43, W: 41 (Acts 20-25) - a low energy live-in wallower
BD ("I don't love you"): Feb 2019, 
BD2 ("I don't want to fix this marriage."... D filed May 2020
Kids (at time of BD): G19,G18,G14,G12,S5

*** Every person on the planet is like you - a human being, most likely doing the best they can. Some are just more in control of themself than others ***
*** There are things you control and things you can't control, but what you can control is your attitude towards things you can't control. ***
*** You're not going to master the rest of your life in one day. So relax. Master the present day. Then just keep doing that every day. ***
*** Without trust fear is the only possibility. Place your trust in your own wings. ***

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#45: June 06, 2020, 05:58:45 AM
Our brains store memories, information, feelings, yearnings, thoughts and even though it is our brain, sometimes it is impossible to control.

When I hear a song from my teenage days, I often am immediately brought back to a time and place where that song played..often it makes me smile..but the same is true of trauma...just like most people remember what they were doing when the twin towers were hit.

So it is totally normal to have dreams and thoughts about our spouses, although at times it seems cruel.

I think I have been able to allow myself to enjoy these dreams and memories, because they were real. I miss him, still, 11 years later I miss him. I don't fight the memories and eventually learned how to put them to the side.

Sometimes I wish I could forget "us" but I realize that probably won't ever happen so I learned to be ok with those dreams and thoughts.

However, I do think that LBSers do experience PTSD and those dreams and memories can trigger strong emotional reactions. I am not sure if you are seeing a therapist but my own experience was traditional talk therapy didn't help me much. It was only after finding a mind/body therapist that I learned how to turn the feelings that those triggers brought up, how to "decrease the volume" and turn them off.

Several people on HS have gone for EMDR therapy. My understanding of EMDR is that is disrupts the emotion attached to the memory..so that the memory is still there, but the emotional reaction isn't. That's very simplified but I am using it to explain that this "trauma" is very real and of course each individual is going to respond differently.

Recognizing that these dreams upset you is a really good sign that you are aware.

Thinking about how they make you feel in your body, what you are feeling and how can you change that tightness/cramping/sourness..whatever the physical sensation is...how you can switch that off...it's practice really. The more I utilize the "techniques" (and they are rather simple and sometimes I think they cannot possibly have an effect)...but these things help me to step away from the "negative" feelings that these dreams and memories cause me.

It takes much time to process what has happened to us and our world. Don't be too hard on yourself..there are some things that your body is going to do until you are able to let go of some of the attachment we have to them still.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

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Love Me, Don't Leave Me
#46: June 06, 2020, 06:18:47 AM
I know some people say that dreams mean things, but I’m not sure I always believe that. I feel like they are a bit like horoscopes. You can sometimes force them into a meaning.

Last night I had a rather vivid sexual dream involving Donald Trump! And that definitely means nothing.

I think remembering that it’s just a dream and reminding yourself it’s not real life should help. You don’t need to feel annoyed at yourself for how you responded to a dream.
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#47: June 06, 2020, 12:59:57 PM
LBS_Les: I think you have great insights, and honestly are doing great. What if you give yourself space and time and allow yourself to parse this as you need? What I mean is instead of wondering about the dream, and feeling angry afterward what if you simply accept the dream as is?

We can be in very conflicted states as we work through complex emotions. You can both NOT miss your wife and still WANT to be with her. You can have a wish fulfillment dream, yet you can at the same time see that it may be a lie (kind of like anything she may say).

Your life is simply where you are now, how honest you are with yourself, how much you allow yourself to feel, grieve, honor the past and let it go (see another complex and seemingly contradictory state), be fearful and hopeful for a different future.

I think we all find a time of transition, where we are swirling in what was, and what is not yet here. It may be moving from state to state or even existing in both at times. Its all ok, as long as you are kind to yourself, allow yourself the permission to be where you are.

Your own insight and understanding is a great strength and your guide. Let you intellect “understand” and let your emotions process. I sometimes call this a state of being unmoored, you are not where you were, but have not yet set a direction. But you are just fine. It takes time.

Thanks.  I do really give myself the space to just feel, during this time.  I vacillate through emotions and just understand that I am allowed to feel sad, angry, happy, free, or whatever motion comes up.  I've always wanted to be in control, I just NEED TO KNOW what's next.  I've learnt to just let go of all of that, and that includes trying to understand what my path of healing is looking like. 

Our brains store memories, information, feelings, yearnings, thoughts and even though it is our brain, sometimes it is impossible to control.

When I hear a song from my teenage days, I often am immediately brought back to a time and place where that song played..often it makes me smile..but the same is true of trauma...just like most people remember what they were doing when the twin towers were hit.

So it is totally normal to have dreams and thoughts about our spouses, although at times it seems cruel.

I think I have been able to allow myself to enjoy these dreams and memories, because they were real. I miss him, still, 11 years later I miss him. I don't fight the memories and eventually learned how to put them to the side.

Sometimes I wish I could forget "us" but I realize that probably won't ever happen so I learned to be ok with those dreams and thoughts.

However, I do think that LBSers do experience PTSD and those dreams and memories can trigger strong emotional reactions. I am not sure if you are seeing a therapist but my own experience was traditional talk therapy didn't help me much. It was only after finding a mind/body therapist that I learned how to turn the feelings that those triggers brought up, how to "decrease the volume" and turn them off.

Several people on HS have gone for EMDR therapy. My understanding of EMDR is that is disrupts the emotion attached to the memory..so that the memory is still there, but the emotional reaction isn't. That's very simplified but I am using it to explain that this "trauma" is very real and of course each individual is going to respond differently.

Recognizing that these dreams upset you is a really good sign that you are aware.

Thinking about how they make you feel in your body, what you are feeling and how can you change that tightness/cramping/sourness..whatever the physical sensation is...how you can switch that off...it's practice really. The more I utilize the "techniques" (and they are rather simple and sometimes I think they cannot possibly have an effect)...but these things help me to step away from the "negative" feelings that these dreams and memories cause me.

It takes much time to process what has happened to us and our world. Don't be too hard on yourself..there are some things that your body is going to do until you are able to let go of some of the attachment we have to them still.

I've read great things about EDMR and is something I am considering.  I am speaking with a therapist (video calls at this point, thanks COVID! lol).  And its helped, and my therapist helps me remind myself of things and provides encouragement on my progress.  She's very much of the same mindset of what you all say, "don't beat yourself up, you are in the middle of grief, its going to be a process"

And speaking of dreams, I had a dream last night AGAIN.  My wife and I got tattoos of our wedding vows (in real life).  In my dream, I saw her and she had it covered up with another tattoo (some kind of script, a saying if you will).  I was hurt, but I was mostly angry that she took the first step of covering it up.  Mad at myself that I have yet to cover my tattoo up and that she "one up'd" me if you will.

I didn't awaken to any emotion because the dream only came to me as a reminder, later in the day.

I see it as my fear that she is moving on, and closing one more door on us.  Even if I don't know right now, that I want that door to be left open.

Enjoy your weekend guys, and thanks for the insight.  Its helpful and much appreciated!
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« Last Edit: June 06, 2020, 01:08:06 PM by LBS_Les »
Me (W) 43 - W 41
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#48: June 06, 2020, 01:12:31 PM
Les,

At the risk of sounding snarky. (I’m really not trying too)

Quote
I see it as my fear that she is moving on, and closing one more door on us.  Even if I don't know right now, that I want that door to be left open.

It’s a door. It can be opened again.  Only next time it will be up to you.

It’s okay to let the door sit shut for a while....you won’t miss anything you care to know about. But you will find you....and there is so much more to you than you know, even right now.

Learning to accept that I had no control of the outcome was soooooo hard and sooooo worth the pain.  Kind of a setting the outcome aside  instead of using it as a worry stone and really digging into all the ways I had such a scarcity mindset about love, relationships, safety, stability, lifestyle, family.  It showed me where I learned those things, and helped me recognize that the people that taught those things to me also had a scarcity mindset as well.
If you have ever seen the Peter Pan movie with robin williams the scene (probably on YouTube) of him at the table where the lost boys are eating the “invisible food” is the best example I have ever seen of a scarcity mindset.

Anyways. You are doing so good. You are right where you are supposed to be, learning what you are supposed to learn. And you contain within you everything you need to survive and to thrive in this moment.

Courage.
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S15
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BD March 31 2019
EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

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#49: June 06, 2020, 01:34:25 PM
Les,

At the risk of sounding snarky. (I’m really not trying too)

Quote
I see it as my fear that she is moving on, and closing one more door on us.  Even if I don't know right now, that I want that door to be left open.

It’s a door. It can be opened again.  Only next time it will be up to you.

It’s okay to let the door sit shut for a while....you won’t miss anything you care to know about. But you will find you....and there is so much more to you than you know, even right now.

Learning to accept that I had no control of the outcome was soooooo hard and sooooo worth the pain.  Kind of a setting the outcome aside  instead of using it as a worry stone and really digging into all the ways I had such a scarcity mindset about love, relationships, safety, stability, lifestyle, family.  It showed me where I learned those things, and helped me recognize that the people that taught those things to me also had a scarcity mindset as well.
If you have ever seen the Peter Pan movie with robin williams the scene (probably on YouTube) of him at the table where the lost boys are eating the “invisible food” is the best example I have ever seen of a scarcity mindset.

Anyways. You are doing so good. You are right where you are supposed to be, learning what you are supposed to learn. And you contain within you everything you need to survive and to thrive in this moment.

Courage.

Ha, Im turning 43, so Peter Pan with RW was a movie from my time!  And I remember the scene so well! LOL

I do understand that when the door closes, it can be reopened.  Its my abandonment trigger, feeling left behind.  Some of my childhood issues are being addressed in therapy, and I am thankful that I am able to recognize that its the cause. 

The control factor, man I get that so much!  And it doesn't scare me, and I seem to be okay with it (denial?), but I understand that no outcome could ever be predicted.  I've learnt that nothing is guaranteed, and most importantly, nothing is constant - that includes my marriage, or my possible divorce.

And to be frank, D scares the $h!te out of me, maybe because thats my line in the sand.  That if she moves as far as to file for D, I don't have a reason to be a lighthouse for her.  We have no kids, so there is nothing to keep us connected (which I think is a blessing as I have no insight into her life, nor do I want to right now).  So with no connection, why would I continue to be a lighthouse for her to return to?

And maybe thats just me moving on, in a way.  Understanding that D will be the end of our story, even if it doesn't always mean that.  Perhaps I haven't really let go of controlling the future after all  ::)

You've given me much to think about :).
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BD - Jan 17, 2020


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