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My Story Love Me, Don't Leave Me
#20: May 16, 2020, 12:32:09 PM
Dreams

This is the second night this week, that she has come to me in my dreams.  I then awaken in a foul mood, and process what happened, over and over.

In my dream, she was explaining to me, that she needs to pursue something with person that she tried to engage in an affair with, that it was important to her.  No big deal, she is definitely an affair down.  But I was annoyed at myself for trying to rationalize with her.  Not trying to get her to come home, not trying to work it out, but asking her why someone like this person, is such an attraction for her?  In the real world, I have no idea if she has pursued anything with this AP.  She at one time said, she wasn't interested because of a variety of reasons, and I do know that they have quite a bit of distance between them.  SInce I have kept the car, and the AP is a drunk, it would be quite the trek for them to meet.  And really, while Im capturing it in this journal, its more for context as it relates to the dream, but in the real world, I don't really think too much of them because, I know that I am a way better catch

I went to our old place today to get my bike.  The owners are currently in the process of repainting the house for their new renters.  Amazingly, I didn't feel any sadness when I was there, just Wow.  I did go to the back and had a moment of realization that this long weekend, would be when we would likely be opening the pool for the summer.  C'est la vie.

Then I was reminded of the last few times my STBXW was there.  Her nagging about the landlords and how they never did anything for us, so why are they doing it now.  And I couldn't figure out then, why she was directing so much anger to people who were really good to us.  And then today, I realized it was the MLCer talking.....easier to be angry at everyone else, but themselves.

Its a gorgeous day out and so my city's residents have thrown social distancing out the window.  No space in between, picnics in parks, group sports.  Thanks guys, lets just extend our isolation throughout the summer.  UGH
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« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 12:34:45 PM by LBS_Les »
Me (W) 43 - W 41
BD - Jan 17, 2020


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#21: May 18, 2020, 11:59:35 AM
Question for the seasoned vets, if I may.  Ive been reading through Denjef31's posts about the fog.  She isn't an advocate of NC, but she also says that pursuing is a turn off.

My W and I have no children, and are in the one year separation period before filing (BD was 4 months ago).  We have had some contact here and there, and to be honest, it was all the wrong contact.  Talking about us, how we messed up, blah blah blah.  Its been 12 days since we last spoke, and I think this is almost the longest we have gone NC.  I've distanced myself to give her space, and she generally is the one to initiate contact on random things, but I have also initiated contact at times as well.

Im struggling with NC right now - especially after reading the Fog threads.  In my heart, I know that the universe is keeping me from hearing from my W as I am not prepared to properly navigate through those interactions.  Conceptually, I know what I need to do (no R talk, mirror her, keep it light and short), and I believe that I will begin to hear from my W again, when the universe believes that I am ready.

But, I also struggle with the concept of NC hindering reconnection possibilities.  Yes, NC is for me, and not a mechanism for me to "win her back" or "make her miss me".  I understand this.  The last time we spoke, I told her that if she ever needed me, I was there for her, and that I would let her drive that bus, and that I will respect her need for space to begin her healing journey. 

So what say you?  I think I left things on good enough terms for her, should she want to reach out, she knows that I am not angry and resentful (as I had been when this first went down). 

And if NC isn't recommended, what is the approach?  I know that there is Smart contact, but we really don't have any matters to settle between us right now, that would require us to discuss "business" matters.

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#22: May 22, 2020, 03:40:38 PM
Quote
I also struggle with the concept of NC hindering reconnection possibilities.

It depends on why you are in a NC place. It is recommended that you go NC for your own sake and sanity, because sometimes it just hurts way to much to have contact with them. If they are abusive or are monstering, NC can give some space to protect your heart.

Have you read BBHelp's thread?  I believe he did remain in contact during their time apart but "lightly", without pursuing, without any expectations...difficult to do but not impossible.

I like the concept of being the lighthouse. He knows where to find me and he knows that I have not shut him out or closed the door totally. Now I have been at this many many years and some will call me a fool but this is about me and how I treat people I love...especially because I believe there is something really wrong with him.

Now and then I would send a joke, I always sent an email to wish him a happy birthday and to remember the anniversaries of his parent's deaths. We were married for 32 years, 32 good years...I cannot discount that.

I know that 12 days feels like a very long time, as the crisis continues, there may be times that are much longer than 12 days and that is really ok.

Have you read RCR's articles on Contact levels. They start at:

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_contact-levels_no-contact.html

Take good care of yourself. This is very hard stuff.

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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#23: May 22, 2020, 04:14:21 PM
Les,

I think it’s important for you to know how NC helps us.

A) people in affairs justify their actions by blaming the LBS...if you are not involved it gets more and more difficult to lay the “blame” for her choices on you.

B) The only person on earth you can change is you. So you must learn to turn your focus towards yourself. To pay more attention to yourself, your feelings, your needs, and your priorities. NC helps remove the option of focusing on someone else and what they said, and what it might of mean and what they are thinking or doing right now.

C) It is respecting another persons boundaries.  They have a right to choose how much they want to be involved....we have the option of showing respect for that boundary....no matter if we find it sensible or not.

D) The things that hinder reconnection isn’t the frequency of the contact....it is what contact feels like when it happens. Ie fighting, crying, shaming ect.

E) getting to know yourself on a really deep intimate level helps you find a sureness, a peace, a sense of groundedness with yourself....that self love, self care, self respect is the lighthouse.
It is unmoved by however violently the see around it crashes. It is steady and sure.

I hope this helped?

Courage.
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EA discovered 3/31/2019
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EA ongoing? 🤷‍♀️ (Who knows?)
“God allows us to feel the frailty of human love so we’ll appreciate the strength of his.” C.S. Lewis

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#24: May 22, 2020, 05:14:16 PM
Quote
I also struggle with the concept of NC hindering reconnection possibilities.

It depends on why you are in a NC place. It is recommended that you go NC for your own sake and sanity, because sometimes it just hurts way to much to have contact with them. If they are abusive or are monstering, NC can give some space to protect your heart.

Have you read BBHelp's thread?  I believe he did remain in contact during their time apart but "lightly", without pursuing, without any expectations...difficult to do but not impossible.

I like the concept of being the lighthouse. He knows where to find me and he knows that I have not shut him out or closed the door totally. Now I have been at this many many years and some will call me a fool but this is about me and how I treat people I love...especially because I believe there is something really wrong with him.

Now and then I would send a joke, I always sent an email to wish him a happy birthday and to remember the anniversaries of his parent's deaths. We were married for 32 years, 32 good years...I cannot discount that.

I know that 12 days feels like a very long time, as the crisis continues, there may be times that are much longer than 12 days and that is really ok.

Have you read RCR's articles on Contact levels. They start at:

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_contact-levels_no-contact.html

Take good care of yourself. This is very hard stuff.

Thanks for your reply!  I have read the articles, in great detail (I was borderline obsessed there for a while LOL)

The monstering has subsided a great deal - so much so, that I sometimes wonder if she really is in MLC or if she was just a WAW (my vote is mostly MLC).  Im not NC per say - I guess it falls under the SC category.  I am not pursuing, not sending texts, I've left it that she can reach out to me if need be. 

Im doing this because:

a). I need to act as if my marriage is over - and that means stepping aside.  I need to focus on myself and focus on detaching.  That cannot happen if I am always texting her or vice versa.

b) Because we have had decent interactions the last few times we have spoken, and I don't want to risk it with discussion that may trigger monster

c) Because I have NO CLUE if she is with the person she "wanted" to cheat on me with.  She's said that they aren't dating, but believe nothing they say, and half of what they do.  I will not be made of fool of by engaging in conversation initiated by me, if she's hanging with her potential AP, (or any AP for that matter)

In rage stage, I was going to block her and never speak to her again.  That stance has lessened, obviously knowing what I now know.  However, contact needs to be initiated by her.  If I don't hear from her, then I know she wants her space.  She knows the ball for any contact, is in her court.  I've told her that she needs her place to heal and I won't interfere with that....and that if she needs me, she can reach out, and I will mirror her in any discussions we may need to have.

I miss my best friend, I do....and thats why I need to not initiate and focus on detaching
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#25: May 22, 2020, 05:28:33 PM
Les,

I think it’s important for you to know how NC helps us.

A) people in affairs justify their actions by blaming the LBS...if you are not involved it gets more and more difficult to lay the “blame” for her choices on you.

B) The only person on earth you can change is you. So you must learn to turn your focus towards yourself. To pay more attention to yourself, your feelings, your needs, and your priorities. NC helps remove the option of focusing on someone else and what they said, and what it might of mean and what they are thinking or doing right now.

C) It is respecting another persons boundaries.  They have a right to choose how much they want to be involved....we have the option of showing respect for that boundary....no matter if we find it sensible or not.

D) The things that hinder reconnection isn’t the frequency of the contact....it is what contact feels like when it happens. Ie fighting, crying, shaming ect.

E) getting to know yourself on a really deep intimate level helps you find a sureness, a peace, a sense of groundedness with yourself....that self love, self care, self respect is the lighthouse.
It is unmoved by however violently the see around it crashes. It is steady and sure.

I hope this helped?

Courage.

Hey,  Thanks for the information. It does help and I'll address your points below, if I may

a). The blame game (for now) is not there - she has stated that this was 100% on her (after some time because at first, she 100% blamed me).

b) yes, my focus is on me for my end goal.  I of course, always think about her and always wonder about many things (e.g. what is she doing? does she think of me? etc), but I think thats acceptable given how recent this all is for me

c) 100% agree with this.....I believe she needs the space to process whatever she is going through - she's not asked me not to reach out, but she deserves to work through her $h!te, without me interfering.

d) I wish I found this site sooner, because of course I did all those things LOL.  I want to be able to step away from the dialogue and respond in thoughtfulness (respond vs reacting).  So NC/SC also will give me this opportunity to brush up on those skills

e) I have been doing a lot of inward looking (is that even proper English LOL), and working to address some of my trauma's, my childhood issues, my anger, my inability to respond to things vs react.  I have been trying to practice this in real life situations, and note my triggers and feelings as they come up.  I am focusing on making me the best version of myself, for myself, and MY future - with whoever that should be with.

 8)

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#26: May 22, 2020, 05:32:01 PM
I have a clinging boomeranger. He's never left me alone even though he lived overseas for 10 years. I have tried both NC and some contact. Neither is great.

But through much work I am able to be "detached" with him...enough to have dinner with him and include him for some holiday events...but he remains very superficial and  it is not easy to live like this.

And each of us get to do what feels right. As my therapist told me, I can choose to see him or not and that can change from day to day..I don't have to set it in stone, I can change my mind.

I am not sure it matters. As long as they are in crisis, they cycle and don't remember much of things that we did or didn't do.

I have always felt that if I treated him as a human being, that if he ever gets through his crisis he will remember how I treated him.

But it can come at a cost for the LBSer.

You sound like you have thought it through.

And yes, I miss my best friend too.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#27: May 22, 2020, 05:44:15 PM
I have a clinging boomeranger. He's never left me alone even though he lived overseas for 10 years. I have tried both NC and some contact. Neither is great.

But through much work I am able to be "detached" with him...enough to have dinner with him and include him for some holiday events...but he remains very superficial and  it is not easy to live like this.

And each of us get to do what feels right. As my therapist told me, I can choose to see him or not and that can change from day to day..I don't have to set it in stone, I can change my mind.

I am not sure it matters. As long as they are in crisis, they cycle and don't remember much of things that we did or didn't do.

I have always felt that if I treated him as a human being, that if he ever gets through his crisis he will remember how I treated him.

But it can come at a cost for the LBSer.

You sound like you have thought it through.

And yes, I miss my best friend too.

I have followed your story, and I have to say that I admire your strength to stand, for such a long period of time.

I think that one day, I will be able to meet with my wife, have a meal and a chat, and feel Meh.....but that is going to be a long ways away from today
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#28: May 23, 2020, 02:51:51 PM
Day 17 of NC.

I use WhatsApp as a means of communication with my friends, to stay connected with Video Messages during quarantine.  My W also is on there and we have exchanged videos there.  I don't do it often, but I will look at our chat history as it shows her last online time.  Well, its been since Thursday at 5:51.  Is she withdrawing?  Her family has a group chat there, I know because I was a part of it before I abruptly removed myself from it after sharing a screenshot of her confirming her affair (petty, I know), but I was hurt at the time.  And it was a fairly active chat, so moments of silence there would be surprising.  I know, Im stage watching, I get it. 

I met with my therapist on Wednesday.  I was nervous about bringing up my MLC discovery as I wasn't sure she would "buy it", or encourage me trying to find an escape for the reason things happened as they did.  She thinks the term MLC is "Cliche", but she does recognize that everyone will hit a stage in their life where they question themselves, their choices and make decisions without rationalizing them.   She says that she looks at is at "seeking vitality".  It was comforting to know she didn't disagree with me, she also didn't make me second guess myself, and recognized that there were some things there that would explain my wifes behaviour.  But her goal is to help me and not try to figure my W out.  So she asked me questions to really make me think about why Im doing, what I'm doing (NC).  Asks me what my goal is, what am I looking to achieve.  And a couple of times, she did have me stumped.

I've come along way in the short 4 months since BD and I know this, but I guess that inner child in me still seeks validation from others (working on that), and it always feels great when my therapist, and friends, have praised the changes I have made to date.  Some are actually surprised how level headed I have become because old me would have flown off the handle, and stayed bitter and resentful.

Its another lovely day in the city.  Ive made a jug of Sangria, am sitting outside and enjoying the sound of the birds, and ironically, the helicopters that continuously circle the neighbourhood.  I guess the emergency transport helicopter base is somewhere here, because the ORNG heli's continue to pass by. 

And lastly, my place, ah my new place.  I am so proud of the design and furnishing I have chosen for my little apartment.  Ive chosen some piecings that some may have said "hmmmmm?" to, but the colours work out beautifully, and I have received a ton of compliments on my choices.  I wish my W could see how "mature" my place looks.  She would definitely be surprised (she did see some of the decor at our old place, but I have replaced much more furniture and accessories since she last saw my place).  Come to think of it, I ordered a lamp for the end of the couch as there is no lighting in the living room.  I chose a beautiful stand that is tall and curves to hang over the couch.  I love that lamp, and I picked it out.  In my video exchanges with my W, I have noticed the lamp she chose for her living room (why don't apartments have living room lights??!?!?) and I must say, she has poor taste.  Looking back, if she tried to buy that lamp for our place, it would have been a fight, because its ugly, and I was too stubborn to "give in".  And thats the joy of having my own place.  I don't have to fight over an ugly lamp, nor do I have to settle.

So, in keeping with the theme of lighting, I will keep moving forward - my future is looking "bright" (see what I did there?)
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« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 02:53:10 PM by LBS_Les »
Me (W) 43 - W 41
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Re: Love Me, Don't Leave Me
#29: May 23, 2020, 03:36:10 PM
Hi LBS_Les:

Sounds like you are doing well for four months indeed. And its so good to hear your are focused on yourself. I think all of us want validation externally, want someone else to confirm what we feel. Nothing wrong with that. Its only an issue if that becomes the most important thing. And you sound like you are doing just fine.

Your therapist doesn’t have to “get” the MLC thing, specially as you are both focused on you and not your wife. So just doing your work. Maybe one day you will have to go into more depth about it with your therapist, but not today.

I also remember when I first set up a place that was just for me how much it meant to me. It wasn’t even about the “mine alone” part. But like you I found joy in being able to make choices, have them work and fit and get to be in a place I created. It was an external representation of who I was inside, untethered form a relationship. And what a great physical manifestation of your growth, finding yourself and creating around you. Its that external validation in physical form, no?
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