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Author Topic: My Story Hello - new to this board, seeking support

W
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My Story Hello - new to this board, seeking support
OP: July 01, 2020, 04:49:19 PM
Hello,

I have been following the facebook lives. Very helpful. Following the facebook page. I am on HB forum which has been a lifesaver but wanted to introduce myself here also.

My story:
— H and me both 45 years old.
— Married 16 years, together 22.
— No children by choice. Have beloved dog.
Dec 2017 H rushed to hospital with heart problem - he thought he was dying.
October 2018 H's mother almost died.
Jan 2019 H halves his prozac dose after 22+ years.
March onwards H very withdrawn, I could not connect with him. I told him this. He was unable to talk to me about it. H traveling non-stop, he is hardly home in 2019.
May 2019 / BD1 — 'the relationship feels one-sided' I need to do more for him. I do. (These earlier BD's now make sense to me but they totally confused me at the time as H could not communicate his feelings well to me. I didn't know what was happening, did not know my marriage was on the verge of ending until the final BD when he ran away).
— Angry at any and everything. Loss of respect for me. Infatuation with pilates teacher seems apparent.
— Wants to spend every weekend with his family, not me.
Early September 2019 BD2 — 'We need to talk, I need time and space... I hate myself, I don't know who I am'. - shoes on to run to his mums. He didn't leave as I offered to make changes, be more present, support him. I said a marriage is to be worked out, communicate, he yelled back 'A marriage can mean many things!' (feeling trapped!). I started making sure I was giving him more love, attention etc ... it just pushed him further away.'
Teary, talks of being abandoned by his mother as a baby. Thought he would have published at least 3 books by this age... Manic depressive, personality change very appartant. I asked him what happened at that BD and he said his mind just went into a tail spin.
— H goes back to his therapist, comes home so excited 'it's not us! ... therapist was so pleased with how we communicated, it is so much better having our more present ... it's a MLC and therapist has so much information on it'.
— Four days later H leaves for business trip away. He doesn't phone or tell me when he arrives. The night before he sent BD3 text message I phoned him and he was strangely 'out of breath' at 8.30pm - said he was 'watching football'.  ???
Mid September 2019 BD3 Text message 'I can't do this anymore'. Goes to live with his mum. Not to be seen again.
— 1-minute hang up phone call where he yells at me 'I have changed!', 'What I need now is loving and nurturing from my mother! I am going!'
— 2 explaining emails from him (Fresh start, just wants to think about himself, always put me first now it's his time, he loves me but has to do this...)
— Monster comes out in second email, I put a NC in place to build my strength.
Jan 2020 - he send email to a friend of mine saying he wants to sort practical things. He goes in to detail in this email to her about how we could use lawyers etc. She contact me, I tell her that I don't want a third party involved. He then emails me. I have my lawyer respond after 2 emails from him as he was ready to divide all assets (house etc) and has an ex family court judge as a stepmother and a lawyer as a father.
— Legal separation now underway. He starts out very aggressive, blaming, shaming, mocking in his legal response. Him wanting to buy the house and move back in - IMMEDIATELY. Me taking over full financial responsibility for car, dog IMMEDIATELY.
— Legal letter from him on our wedding anniversary in April 2020. He wants to do a valuation of the house as soon as Covid-lockdown is lifted.
— June 2020 I open up direct email contact with him to sort out me taking over bills. He was 'kind' and not aggressive. Said he was happy to wait until I was ready to take over more bills. I kept communication to business but kind, not angry.
— I set a boundary for house selling to continue through legal council, not with him, as he started wanting to talk that with me. He is frustrated with lawyers.
— Now he is telling other people (but not me or my lawyer) that the intention is for me to buy the house.
— Legal review due end of July.
— I am looking for financial security. My lawyer is slowing him down. Legally 2-years separation period before he can file for divorce.
— Legal spousal maintenance now in place - him still paying certain household bills me paying the rest.
— All of H's belongings still in house - he just took his underwear and a few little things.
— I am working with a good therapist, learning a lot about me, slowly healing and getting stronger. Working on detaching.
— I have learned a lot about MLC - learning that I did not cause this.

That's me in an overview. Still in a lot of pain. Hard looking for extra work when I still feel very broken, in pain, traumatised and shock is still present. But I am much stronger than I was in the early months where I could not function at all.

Thank you  :)
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« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 06:28:48 PM by Wonder »
Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#1: July 01, 2020, 05:41:41 PM
Hi Wonder - welcome!

You have several incidents that could have served as the catalyst for his MLC (namely, the near-death of your mother-in-law, his own prior health scare, et al.). And his MLC is clearly the result of his abandonment as a child. 

He’s clearly a poster-child for MLC, I’m so sorry, and only you can decide if you’re a Stander or not.  Either way, you’ll get lots of support here!

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« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 05:59:09 PM by megogirl »

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Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#2: July 01, 2020, 09:09:22 PM
Welcome Wonder , glad you found us . It is very traumatising , just as you said and I know it hurts like nothing we imagined , but you sound strong , well researched and moving forward as best you can.  That is not suggesting it is any less devastating. My husband was also abandoned by his mother as a 3 year old and grew up falsely believing she was dead. Mother abandonment has lifelong consequences and some of them refuse to stay dormant later in life.  It has nothing to do with you...or me . Welcome again!
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

W
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Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#3: July 02, 2020, 01:01:46 AM
Hi Wonder - welcome!

You have several incidents that could have served as the catalyst for his MLC (namely, the near-death of your mother-in-law, his own prior health scare, et al.). And his MLC is clearly the result of his abandonment as a child. 

He’s clearly a poster-child for MLC, I’m so sorry, and only you can decide if you’re a Stander or not.  Either way, you’ll get lots of support here!

Hello megogirl and thank you.

Yes H's father also had a MLC when H was in his late teens. H had to literally drive to OW's house, pick his father up off the floor and bring him home - the OW threw the car keys at H. H's mental health issues (depression + anxiety) started at this time. He shut himself away in his bedroom and did not socialise.

H always said his father married his own mother in his second marriage — H's stepmother. Not sure H's father has ever made it out of his crisis really — there is still a lot of classic crisis behavior from him (red convertible sports car was in the mix and all!).

I have known H since we were both 13 - we were in the same class at high school. We have a long history.

I stand... until such time that I feel my stand comes to a natural end (reconciliation or me having grown enough and healed on my journey). I certainly stand while still married. He can not file for divorce until after Sept 19 2021 as legally there is a 2 year separation period in my country. I still love the core of who my H is. I now see and better understand some of his struggle. I now understand his projection that attacks me. I focus on protecting myself, continuing to detach, but I stand. Not that he knows that yet. We have very little contact, but I lifted the NC. I just don't initiate contact unless it is in regards to bills/business etc. He is on a mission to distance himself from my as soon as possible - although he has slowed down from the IMMEDIATELY commands from January.

I chose this man as my H and I brought my own brokenness to the relationship. We were both similar in our 'broken'. He went into crisis, I did not.

Quote
Welcome Wonder , glad you found us . It is very traumatising , just as you said and I know it hurts like nothing we imagined , but you sound strong , well researched and moving forward as best you can.  That is not suggesting it is any less devastating. My husband was also abandoned by his mother as a 3 year old and grew up falsely believing she was dead. Mother abandonment has lifelong consequences and some of them refuse to stay dormant later in life.  It has nothing to do with you...or me . Welcome again!

Thank you barbiedoll.
Abandonment is so very destructive. My H was emotionally abandoned by his mother due to postnatal depression. His mother didn't really raise him as a baby and his father was always at work, never home, and didn't listen when he was own - H felt neglected, not seen, not loveable. He felt very unloved. And I could not fill that void in him - that is not the role of a wife.

He told a friend, a week after leaving me, that I did not meet his needs. That hurt but I see he was playing the victim, his seduction technique (he once had sex with this friend prior to us getting together). But it is not my role to meet these unmet needs in him. Sure, I could have done many things better in our marriage - but I am human and imperfect. His running away certainly brought all my faults to the surface, but I learned to stop beating myself up with self-blame. I made mistakes, I was not perfect 24 hours a day, every day for 22 years. Nor should a spouse expect their spouse to be that. I was faithful, devoted, loving and kind. I showed him love and he started to reject it, push me away. A healthy relationship takes communication, not stuffing down one's feelings until they turn to resentment and explode.

Nice to meet you all and I look forward to reading other's threads.  :)
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« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 01:09:38 AM by Wonder »
Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

W
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Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#4: July 23, 2020, 03:40:38 PM
Thank you for answering my question on the FB live this weekend Kenda-Ruth.

So, next week there will be a legal review, after a 2-month break, that my lawyer put in place.
He is pushing for me to commit to a division of assets in his last legal letter 2 months ago.

If I was to send H a short email this weekend, would it say something along these lines:


I wanted you to know that I am not angry and I am not judging you or myself.
I am so sorry this has happened, but I accept that you feel you have to do this.
It was never what I wanted then or now.
I am still here if he wants to talk.


I am not even sure if I want to send this. I feel I am well into the process of letting this man go. I do not know who he is anymore and have trouble remembering 'us' together. It all feels so distant, the good 20 years we had. I suppose I am detaching and focusing on my own life now. But I know I still have love in my heart for the core of who he is. I love him more than he loves himself right now I would say.

Not that this is a comfortable process — it still feels like a nightmare but I understand the MLC process now and he is only 10 months in since leaving home so this is all very early days. We have had very little contact. He sent a flurry of little emails soon after he left - asking about our dog, addressing me as 'Sweets' and 'My love' while he was running hard away from me. That was confusing for me. We have since had about 6 emails re me taking over bills in the past few months. And lawyers are engaged communicating the division of assets.

Thank you
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« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 04:03:24 PM by Wonder »
Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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Re: Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#5: July 23, 2020, 04:25:32 PM
Hi Wonder.

How can your H divide assets when there is nothing legally saying you need to?
You said he wants a legal separation, and if he can get one, there isn't much you can do to stop him.  If he needs you to agree to the separation, then just don't agree.

I guess I'm a little confused.  He can't file for a divorce yet, but he can file for a legal separation?  Can he then, legally, want the division of assets done? Or does he just want that?

I would go with what your lawyer is advising you, he has your best interest at heart and he is not emotionally involved.

Take your time, breathe, find out your rights.  You don't need to rush anything, no matter what your H wants.  You need time to sort this out.  You are still in shock and in no frame of mind to be making any life altering decisions.

I personally would NOT write him any message.  He will not care what you have to say right now.  He sounds like quite a mess.  All he wants is out.  Very typical for them in crisis and he sees you as in his way.  Doesn't matter how nice you are to him.
Just deal with your lawyer and get his advice.  Ask him if you, in fact. need to divide assets right now.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood anything you have told us.  I just briefly went through your story and something just doesn't seem to add up.  I'm glad you have been decent with him, though.  No need to get ugly.
You just seemed to be so rushed into this.

Hugs
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#6: July 23, 2020, 04:48:37 PM
Hi Thunder,

Yes, he dropped the out of the blue bomb, ran away never to be seen again, and then wanted to buy me out of the house and have assets divided, stop paying the bills he was paying immediately and have everything settled (divorce style) three months after he left. Very aggressive, very bullying, mocking. Not a nice man at all.

Yes, I still have shock and need to totally rebuild my life (especially financially) and he was rushing and pressuring me. He wanted to move back into the house, kick me out and make me homeless essentially. Which my lawyer said would not hold up in court as he has no right to be doing that. He is financially stable with a good job, I own my own business which is only a couple of years old so I am focused on finding financial security and that takes time in the covid-ecomonic climate. But I do have another job interview this afternoon which is looking promising.

I am entitled to time and I do not have to have marital assets divided during the two year separation period. My legal rights allow me up until 1 year after divorce to have all assets sorted — especially the house. I am fully financially responsible for the the car I am driving, our dog, home maintenance and I am paying 50% of the household bills. My H is paying the other 50% in spousal maintenance as has been agreed between our lawyers.

I have spent a lot of time and money with my lawyer finding out my rights and getting to this point of spousal maintenance and him not kicking me out of the house. So I feel like we have gotten him to abide by what the law requires of him, at this stage.

Yes, H can file for a legal separation and that is what he is going. He was keen to do it without lawyers, as one does not legally need lawyers to separate, but I brought my lawyer in to protect myself as I knew he would try to manipulate me and he had a legal father and step mother informing him of his rights.

My lawyer is slowing him down, as per my rights.

There is a review at the end of this month and H wanted me to commit to a final division of assets. Which I will not be doing, as per my legal rights to time. And my lawyer knows this.

Yeah, my gut does not want to send H any email communication, so I will listen that that. He is on a mission to get away from me and I am focused on my own healing.

I hope that helps clarify my situation?

Thanks


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« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 04:50:23 PM by Wonder »
Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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Re: Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#7: July 24, 2020, 08:51:31 AM
Yes it sure does, Wonder.  Thank you.

I'm so glad you were smart enough to get a lawyer.  They can't bully you into something you don't want or need to do.

He may try by calling you unreasonable, or try to intimidate you, but just ignore it and tell him nicely to talk to legal counsel if he disagrees.  You're just following your lawyers advice.

Well hang in their hon, none of this is easy.  But you are doing the right thing, going by the law and taking your time.

Good luck with your interview!   :)

Hugs
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#8: July 24, 2020, 01:56:46 PM
Thanks Thunder,

Yes, initially I had put a NC in place as he was so aggressive in his running from me and I had an acute stress reaction to the shock of it all and was bed ridden — there was zero communication for three months then January he emailed a friend and told her that he wanted to sort practical things so that we could both get on and build our new lives. He tried going around my NC essentially and create a triangulation scenario — he even went into detail in his email to her about how hard it will be and that we could use lawyers if it would be easier. Easier to tell a friend this than his wife.

I told this friend that I did not want a third party involved. He then emailed me but never had a question to ask me so I ignored the first two and had my lawyer respond to the third. I see his manipulation, and he is far from the man I shared 20 years of my life with, so I was not prepared to talk the division of assets, finances with him directly. He initially wanted all of this sorted the weekend after he left (when I was in not in a state to even understand what had happened)  :o

So all communication was via our lawyers. I then opened up email contact in March to discuss the handover of certain bills to me as it was getting too expensive to do all communication via lawyers. He was 'kind' in these emails, cooperative and not pushy. Saying he is happy to wait until I am ready. All is monitored by my lawyer, I send these emails of his to her, so I am protected at all times.

He has tried all kinds of things - extremely bullying, mocking, gaslighting, shaming letters from his lawyers. He added up all the bills he has paid over the past few years since I was building my business, referred to himself as my benefactor in a very belittling way in his legal letter. It amazes me that lawyers write letters like this. It is as if he has found a male lawyer who is also in a MLC as my lawyer was shocked by what they were writing, and confused, as all his bill adding up was essentially giving us evidence that he is legally required to pay maintenance until I find my independent financial feet.

He has tried emailing my lawyer directly, asking about how our dog is. He tried to keep pressuring me to sell the house to him when the whole world got scary during Covid-19 lockdown. He threatened to stop paying the bills he is paying come the end of May. With a lawyer as a father (who I see as never having come out of is own MLC) and an ex family court Judge as a step mother, he is trying all kinds of things.

He has since emailed our neighbours, who used to be our landlords, and who we bought the house off of, telling them that the intention is for me to buy the house. All very strange as he has not told me or my lawyer this.

I am hoping we can stay out of court as financially legal fees are straining but I will see what he comes back with when we have the legal review over the next couple of weeks. I will go to court if needed.

My lawyer feels very strong to me, she is not phased by bullies. And the bullying tactics were so shocking to me as I have never seen this side to my H before. For him to go from love to mocking-hate in a matter of months was terrifying for me.

I think back now and can see signs in hindsight, that did not make sense to me at the time.

— The infatuation with the sexy pilates teacher (who he phoned to asked out for a coffee the week after he left me, so that he could explain to her why he left me - all before he spoke to me!!! He never spoke to me. She said no, she doesn't meet married men for coffee - she is married and a grandmother).

— His aggressive SHHHHHHHH! at me during intimacy about a month or so before he left! That was horrific. I was so shocked that I just froze and didn't say anything and he just carried on and pretty much raped me. So different from the man I thought I shared life with for 20 years. He turned into a man-child, wild animal full of anger, all directed at me.

— In the week before he left I really saw him flipping backward and forwards between good and bad, struggling to be who he was. The anger just taking over him, he had no control over it. I see it more clearly now.

I had no idea that a MLC even existed. Now I know. And I feel for all LBS who have had to go through this or are going through it. It is very very ugly - my experience of it at least.

Job interview is now next week as they are waiting to hear some legal decisions at their end before they will know if they can take me on board - but they certainly want to.

Thanks for reading and for the support. It was good to have a little vent here as I do not talk to friends about this. H and I have known each other since we were 13 so we have a lot of shared friends so I need to be careful.


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« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 02:03:16 PM by Wonder »
Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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Re: Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#9: July 24, 2020, 02:10:09 PM
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

RCR has asked everyone to keep to one thread until  that thread is 150 posts

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
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W
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Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#10: July 24, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Thank you OldPilot,

Knowledge is power indeed.

Yes, I feel I am now managing to get the focus off of him and on to my healing and am stepping out of being stuck in victim-land. Detaching is starting. I have a good therapist I am working with. One day at a time, with my lawyer slowing him down.

Thank you
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Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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Re: Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#11: July 24, 2020, 04:23:17 PM
Wonder I am not liking his Monstering and how aggressiveness has gotten with you to a point of raping you.  That is not ok!!

Please tell your lawyer about this Wonder.  Don't hesitate.
He needs to KNOW this is not ok for him to do this..
This is about you safety.

If he did this once Wonder he will most likely do it again. Trust me.
You need protection.

Some of these Monsters get very aggressive.
Please take measures to keep yourself safe now.

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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#12: July 24, 2020, 05:13:08 PM
Thank you Thunder,

I will mention this to my lawyer.
She is protecting me in that she does not want him near me after his aggressive legal letters and is monitoring any direct contact (emails) he has with me which is minimal - and just about finances. He is pretty close to a vanisher.

He has been very aggressive. Total opposite to the man I knew for 20 years. Frightening stuff.

I have only seen him once since he left 10 months ago - and that was by chance. I drove past him. His body posture behind the wheel of his car was like an angry hunchback  - I honestly didn't recognise that posture in him nor his facial features. One very angry man.

Thank you
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Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#13: July 24, 2020, 05:17:23 PM
Hi Wonder, welcome to Hero's Spouse.

There are some MLCers who become very angry, as you said, totally opposite the way they once were.

It is a further indication of something that has changed drastically in them.

Please make sure that you are keeping yourself safe.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#14: July 24, 2020, 09:50:03 PM
Quote
He has been very aggressive. Total opposite to the man I knew for 20 years. Frightening stuff.

I want you to know, really know in your bones, that you are not the only person here who has experienced this level of aggression. Actually aggression isn't a big enough word.....it's a kind of non-specific rage....you can almost smell it even in an email......at you, at the world, at your lawyer. As if their baseline is angry before anything happens. And that his rage has nothing to do with you, it's not about you, it's about him.

Why? Bc experiencing this in someone we knew well who wasn't like this before is a) deeply frightening and b) absolutely bewildering. And that can create a kind of trauma response which gets in the way of being able to think straight.

I am so glad that you have a decent therapist supporting you and I hope she/he has talked to you about how our bodies react to trauma. I'm glad that you were wise enough to tuck yourself behind a decent lawyer who can act as your barricade. And to severely limit your direct contact with him. It took me much longer to do those things and I wish I had been as wise as you.

Deal with the legal/financial stuff when you are ready and as your L advises. Imho with this level of aggression it will be better for you to unhook from him sooner rather than later. None of us here wanted a divorce; many of us found that life did not start to feel safe or sane until after it was done.....so try not to be afraid of divorce and be clear in your own mind about why you are slowing it down. If it is in the hope that your h will 'calm down' and 'go back to normal', that is unlikely to happen in a timescale that fits - if it happens at all. If it is bc you need time to figure out what is best for you, that is more useful imho. And please accept that when you/your L do progress things, your h will get angrier - bc the divorce process has a way of forcing them to deal with adult reality they often don't much like - and may also illogically do things like not respond to paperwork etc for the very divorce he says he wants.  ::)

You have done so many smart wise things in the last ten months and I salute you for it.
Acceoting the reality of a divorce that makes no sense to you is very hard. Accepting the reality of what your h is like now and that he is a potential threat to your safety and sanity is even harder. Mourning the h you knew and loved, who was real Wonder, you didn't imagine those twenty years  :), is perhaps the hardest thing of all imho.

How are you getting on with the rest of life right now? From basics like food and sleep to bigger things like normal life and things that give you pleasure and calm? Do you have friends or family nearby to support you?

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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
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#15: July 24, 2020, 11:08:20 PM
Thanks  xyzcf - yes, I feel protected now.

Treasur, thank you for stopping by and offering support.

Quote
Actually aggression isn't a big enough word.....it's a kind of non-specific rage....you can almost smell it even in an email......at you, at the world, at your lawyer.

Yes, to me, it is a very very very dark, denomic, out of control rage. Definitely not safe for me to be around. To see his whole body change as the rage would come in, for no specific reason, to see his lack of control of it. It is very real. And yes frightening and bewildering when one does not understand at all what is happening.

Quote
I am so glad that you have a decent therapist supporting you and I hope she/he has talked to you about how our bodies react to trauma.

Yes, thank you. The therapy is Hakomi which is very body, mind, soul oriented. And I have a long term yoga practice and good teachers, so I feel I have a lot of awareness of how my body absorbed and reacted to the trauma. I am learning at least. And I have also learned that only LBS who experience this violent change in our spouses really understand.

On a physical level my hair has stopped falling out and is growing back. I lost it in clumps from the shock. I also have a very good Doctor who is part of my support team. I had a massage, that was gifted to me from a friend, a couple of weeks ago, and that was so lovely.

Quote
Imho with this level of aggression it will be better for you to unhook from him sooner rather than later. None of us here wanted a divorce; many of us found that life did not start to feel safe or sane until after it was done.....so try not to be afraid of divorce and be clear in your own mind about why you are slowing it down. If it is in the hope that your h will 'calm down' and 'go back to normal', that is unlikely to happen in a timescale that fits - if it happens at all. If it is bc you need time to figure out what is best for you, that is more useful imho

Yes, initially I needed time to be able to think straight - I was too full of shock and trauma and fear and confusions and totally overwhelmed. He wanted the final division ASAP and I was only just able to get out of bed, was so underweight, weak, confused, unable to eat properly, unable to talk to people... the list went on. So I was in no position to be making big life decisions.

And now we are keeping it to my timeframe to allow me an opportunity to shift from self employed to employee so that I am able to buy my home which we co-own. I am getting much closer to that, but wasn't even able to attend job interview up until a couple of months ago and then along came Covid. But hopefully in the next couple of weeks I will have the financial security I need and I will progress things with my lawyer.

I used to fear divorce, telling myself that we have a two year separation period here so that is good... he can't divorce me yet. But I have grown from that thinking pattern. A legal separation is pretty much a divorce, in that all assets are being prepared to be divided and as soon as both parties agree that they are ready, they are divided. And the two years is also there for a situation like mine where I need time to reestablish my life - he can't just make me homeless and without a place of work (my work studio is also on my home property). That threat of his would not hold up in court as he would be taking away my home and my source of income.

Quote
How are you getting on with the rest of life right now? From basics like food and sleep to bigger things like normal life and things that give you pleasure and calm? Do you have friends or family nearby to support you?

Much better thank you. I can sleep without sleeping tablets for a good number of months now. I have a yoga cabin in which I practice daily and I am very grateful for my yoga practice. I walk and run on the beach with my dog which brings me joy and calm. I am now able to eat more solid foods - still finding smoothies, and soups the easiest to digest. I have stabilised my weight and put back a couple of the six kilos that I lost very rapidly after he left as I was unable to eat at all. I have very good friends and my family is very supportive. I spend most days alone but that will change if this new job goes through. But I actually needed these months of being alone, to process and start to heal. I do not really socialise, although I did just meet a lovely lady in my village to introduce her to my dog, as she has offered to care for her if I end up being away from my home studio for work, and I really enjoyed sitting down with a cup of tea and chatting to a new friend. I have a very supportive community and neighbours help me with the heavy work on my yard that I am unable to do. And if I get scared, with earthquakes etc, my direct neighbours always text me to check in on me.

I am more prepared now for an aggressive response legally, now that the legal ball will get going again soon. I do not have any fantasies about my H being the man I remember. I have accepted this change in him and I do not like nor feel safe around how he is currently behaving.

Quote
Mourning the h you knew and loved, who was real Wonder, you didn't imagine those twenty years  :), is perhaps the hardest thing of all imho.

Thank you. Yes, we loved each other deeply. We each others best friend. Even lived in isolation for a year and a half together totally off-grid, away from other people and not all couples could do that I feel. Then he changed. I have grieved and continue to grieve, but the tears flow less now. I am no longer feeling like a desperately need him back. I have a trust and a faith that I will be alright. I have a lightness to my step that wasn't there before. I have even started singing along to music. The heaviness is lifting. Then something happens and I cry again, but less than before which was tears multiple times a day.

I really do feel so much stronger and I feel I am detaching. I feel I am gaining my independent feet - I am able to attend job interview with confidence and without that searing pain in my heart. I feel myself coming back and I feel I am growing to be stronger than I ever have been.

I was strong and attended a funeral of a shared friend who took his life. Very very sad. And that was a big step for me to step into facing the shame I was feeling. But once I did it, and I felt the love and support from my friends (who are also H's friends) that blew the imaginary shame away - but perhaps not fully. H could well have been there, but he did not turn up, and I took the risk of perhaps seeing him as I wanted to say goodbye to my friend who died. I stopped hiding.

Thank you and it feels so good to be able to communicate with people who understand this trauma.



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Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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#16: July 25, 2020, 02:47:42 PM
This morning's thought - is it due to the MLC spouse's lack of empathy in that they have absolutely no understanding of how much trauma the LBS experiences with the sudden ending of the marriage, no conversation, and then all the anger and blame that they direct our way. My H just thought he would send his marriage-ending text message to me on the Thursday and then that weekend we would sit down and discuss the division of assets.

In one of H's aggressive legal letters, he claims that I knew that the marriage was over, that I had been trying to save it for six months. None of which is true. How can he speak for me? He is getting his thoughts mixed up with mine perhaps in his co-dependant ways.

From my perspective it went like this — He told me he was struggling with himself, that it was not us, and then a few months later he runs away via a text message (BD3) never to be seen again. And that was a week after BD2 where he had his shoes on ready to to to his mums then after we talk he said his mind just went into a tailspin and then he went to see his therapist and again he came home all excited saying "It is not us, it is a MLC - she had so much information on it! Our marriage is fine and my therapist congratulated us on how well we communicated at BD2." At that stage I sense he did not want it to be us but he was just becoming so driven to run away, to be alone. So after him telling me that we communicated so well as BD2 and that it wasn't us he then stated in his legal letter that I persuaded him to stay after BD2. All was very bullying and awful to read. Such a contradiction to what he had ever said to me before.

And these aggressive legal responses came after my lawyer included a medical certificate for me, as I was at rock bottom and couldn't function and she wanted to communicate this to them to allow me time to be strong enough before making any big decisions. He just got more aggressive and accused my parents of 'rigging' the medical certificate. That was so low of him. He carried on to mock that I didn't have any reason or right to be shocked or suffering from this. The marriage breakdown was my fault apparently as 'sadly my behavior did not improve between BD2 and BD3' - which was only a 2 week period and he was away for the second of those two weeks. It was all my fault ... I persuaded him to stay at BD2 and then behaived so badly for the next week after he left. I went out of my way to support him during that week ... I pulled back on my work hours, didn't go away on the yoga retreat that was planned for that week, pulled out of the art therapy volunteer work I was doing to free up more of my time to offer to my H as support.

Was I 'perfect' during that week? Not at all but I don't recall behaving badly... I was in a state of shock and confusions so my feet were scrambling to find balance that is for sure. I also now see that he became passive aggressive and it was all my fault no matter what I did. I planned a weekend together then he gets a text from his brother the saturday afternoon asking H to spend the Sunday with him. I voiced, calmly, that I was upset that he was going to not spend the weekend with me as we had planned as my mindset was focused on connecting. H's mindset was with running back to his FOO.

He also became quietly angry one night that week when he came home from having drinks with a friend and found I was working late. I couldn't win. I now see that nothing I would have done that week was going to stop him from getting angry, justifying his reasons for the marriage being over and then running. So I try now to not analyse the things he says in legal letters to try to make sense of them. But I certainly did and I took all the blame on board initially.

H became very manic after BD2 and I just didn't know what to talk about with him - I didn't know him anymore and he appeared to have absolutely no concern for me and how I was feeling with all of this. No concern or understanding of the shock I was in that week... but granted I did not understand the shock I was in either. My coping mechanism was to essentially pretend everything was ok, believe what he said in that his mind just went into a tailspin, and that it would all just go away. He then had absolutely no concern or understanding of the shock BD3 caused. All he said was 'he will always be so sorry for sending that text message, but it is only in hindsight that he can see that, and that it just indicates how hard this is for him.'

To go from a man who would tell other man to back away from me, to a man who ran away and threw me out like a used toy.

I focus now on protecting myself. I worry less about whether H is ok. He has chosen to leave my care as his wife. I have to put all my energy into myself now. But it took me some time to get there. I love and care for someone for 20 years, have them vanish and try to turn off the love and care is not really possible. I am just learning to put it aside and not feel selfish just focusing on myself at this time. But I do still think of my H, the memories of our wonderful shared 20 years, often. And those memories bring tears of grief and loss to my eyes. I miss the man he was and now I am terrified of the aggressive stranger he has become.

And I learn to get used to not feeling understood by others. To no longer seek being understood by others. Nobody else is seeing what I see. Although I think H's mask may have cracked at times. One shared friend knows that H is in a crisis, as does H apparently, and has told H that I deserve to be treated fairly with kindness. I don't communicate with these shared friends about H said this and that anymore. I learned that was not helping me. Everyone just brings their own perspective to the table. It was just keeping my eyes on him and I need to keep getting stronger with keeping my focus on myself now.

I chose to marry someone who needed to be the knight in shining armour to lift his low self worth. I bought into his 'victim' seduction ways. I was young and did not understand. But I will not sit here and say our relationship was bad. We really had a wonderful 20 years together and I loved him to the best of my abilities and I was so very devoted and loyal to him. Now H has run saying he wants to be alone and not devoted to anymore after he ALWAYS put me first during our 20 years together.

Just getting this off my chest again.
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 03:16:52 PM by Wonder »
Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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#17: July 25, 2020, 04:20:39 PM
I do not know if we can ever get our head around the sudden change and lack of any interest in resolving what ever it is that went wrong.  They are so cold, I truly do not think my husband has any idea of the trauma that this did to me.

Some have said that they absolutely must leave or they will die. It's not possible to pinpoint how this drive can be so intense that they leave behind everything that was once so good.

How can we resolve something that is so bizarre and so indescribable?  Others see our spouses and shrug...marriages break down, they must have had problems that others did not see..he seems ok...what's wrong with her..just move on......

Very few people understand.

Eventually I accepted that he's gone. The man I loved is gone...this shell, this ghost is not him but I cannot forget the 32 years we shared and I still miss him and our life and our family every single day. I don't think that is "abnormal" but I do live with it better than I once did.

Each story I read here, expresses the same sentiments and the pain that stays..because there is no closure really.

Just joining you in the reality we live in.....I used to say that if this were not happening in my life, I would find it fascinating psychologically..there really isn't anything I can compare this to..or what it did to me and continues to affect me, even though I am much much better.

I am sorry that you have to deal with all this..it is exhausting and very painful.  :'(
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

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#18: July 25, 2020, 05:35:52 PM
Thank you xyzcf - if feels very good to be understood here. Tonight I will pop into your threads to read your story.

I wanted to write down the contradictions in H's words as an exercise for me to see that he is confused and his blaming me really is his way of justifying his actions now that lawyers are involved.

1. First items pre-lawyers involved — 2. second items once lawyers involved and money asset division becoming real and him seeing that I am not just rolling over and giving him everything that he demanded on his IMMEDIATELY timeline:

1. Wonder if perfect, but I had to do this.
2. Wonder does not meet my needs.

1. This has nothing to do with behavior or anything like that within the marriage, this is entirely to do with me and what I need now. I need to be alone, completely autonomous and to look inwards psychologically and spiritually.
2. Wonder's behavior, the week before he left, did not improve, hence the sad end of the relationship.

1. I know this must appear so out of character to you and I know it also must have come so out of the blue to you.
2. Wonder knew our marriage was not going well and has been trying to save our marriage for six months prior to his leaving.

1. I never wanted to hurt Wonder, but I had to do this.
2. Blaming and shaming me in legal letters which just hurts me more when he knew I was at rock bottom.

1. I am leaving as I do now know who I am.
2. Wonder's behavior, the week before he left, did not improve, hence the sad end of the relationship.

1. There is no rush
2. H demands and threatens to buy the house and settle all assets, finances IMMEDIATELY in Feb this year in his first legal letter.

And this one still hurts me, but I am trying to get better at not taking on board blame that I caused this:
"I am leaving for my mental health!"

And to have his whole family block me hurts also. I was part of their family for twenty years then they just shut the door on me and treated me as the evil cause of H's pain.

Thank you for the support here. There is so much work on self to do to understand ourselves, our own personal traumas that we brought into the marriage. But one has to be so gentle as we are in such a traumatised state while we dig into our past selves. So much healing to do.



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« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 05:43:15 PM by Wonder »
Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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#19: July 25, 2020, 06:40:16 PM
Wonder

I hear you about the family stuff.  I’ve actually dreamt about them for the past two nights.  To be ghosted, then replaced, by somebody else is beyond reprehensible.  Like I never existed after 17 years.  Only person who has asked S17 how I am is XH’s grandmother, and it means the world to me. 

She thought that I mattered, even if nobody else did.
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 06:44:55 PM by megogirl »

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#20: July 25, 2020, 08:40:18 PM
Hi megogirl,

Yeah, when so many MLC triggers are FOO issues I suppose it isn't surprising that inlaws can act in ways that feel lacking in compassion or kindness to us LBS. H's brother divorced a couple of years ago and the whole family ganged up on his x-wife calling her crazy_*name* etc, as if H's brother was perfect. I stood up for my sister-in-law and said to my H that I am sure that his brother is not perfect and that these things are not always so black and white. The whole family blocked her also.

I know they all talked to each other and said that if I contacted any of them, not to respond to me. I did however see H's brother in the supermarket in February and he was fine. Just said how hard divorce is (he is the one who divorced his crazy-*name* wife). And to be honest he has been in a crisis ever since. He looked terrible. I had a brief talked about my nephews and told him I didn't wish to talk about H and our divorce when he went there. But he was genuinely 'kind' in seeing me.

I feel for everyone here on this forum.
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 08:47:33 PM by Wonder »
Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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#21: July 25, 2020, 10:55:09 PM
Wonder, I understand that itch to get things about h clear in your mind to protect your own sanity. Been there, got the PTSD hat  :)

I would humbly suggest though that focusing on the poop of what your h says/said may not be the most useful door. Why? Bc your h will say anything that fits the story he wants to tell himself in his head or that he thinks justifies his spectacularly s$itty behaviour or that he thinks will get him what he wants. These MLC types are confusing but they are not complex if that makes sense.

You may find it helpful to pull up to more of a simple helicopter view. Focus on simply dealing with his actions. Stop speculating on what he thinks or why bc imho even trying to think about what they think buys you a free ticket to the bonkers place and the rollercoaster that goes with it. Try very hard to focus on what you think instead. Does his behaviour seem reasonable or acceptable to you as a way to end a long marriage or treat you? Do you feel uncertain, confused, bullied or afraid? Focus on that.

There is a tipping point imho when the LBS simply starts to stop giving much credence to anything the MLCer says about anything.....you, him, the price of fish. When you accept that he may, for instance, believe that you failed him by not being 'perfect' in some magical undefined way.....but that just bc he believes it does not make it true or sane frankly. It is the beginning of real detachment, like your response to a crazy stranger in a tin foil hat who accuses you of being an alien  ::)......and it helps you to not be distracted by the dog and pony show of his words (which is probably part of his intention, it's why people lie and gaslight and bully others after all) but instead to see the pattern of behaviour you are currently faced with. The helicopter view can be very helpful.

I'd like you to try mentally repeating to yourself 'I don't care what h thinks about x or y anymore'..... :)
Make his opinions smaller so you can more clearly have faith in your own and deal with the reality in front of you. Bc your sanity is about being able to trust your own head as opposed to trying to translate his.....imho and from my own experience fwiw. Being able to trust yourself is magic kryptonite for dealing with trauma.
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 10:56:29 PM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#22: July 25, 2020, 11:56:45 PM
WOw, Treasure, thank you so much!
Such the perfect post for me just now.
I find myself doing better during the week days then the weekends I can rewind time and hear all these things that H has said.

This right here, new mantra:
Quote
'I don't care what h thinks about x or y anymore'

Reminds me what one of H's best friends told me ... that H has told him very little about why he ended the marriage, but this friend has told H that what he did is not OK. And if H tells him anything he takes it with multiple grains of salt.

And when I step up into helicopter view - to end a 20 yr relationship, 16yr marriage when he is away on business via an out of the blue text message, then turns his phone off and refuses to talk to me, and vanishes never to be seen again - IS TOTALLY DISRESPECTFUL TO ME. That is not how I would want to treat anyone. And it is not how I would want to be treated by my husband.

I tend to lean very strongly towards compassion - Poor H is in a crisis, that must feel awful. And I am just now learning that I have to put myself first now and leave him to do whatever it is that he is doing.

Thank you for these words Treasur - very helpful.
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 11:59:28 PM by Wonder »
Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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#23: July 26, 2020, 01:37:24 AM
You're welcome, my friend  :)
Just paying back what others did for me.

If it helps, I am not saying compassion has no place.
I am saying though that detachment makes it more possible to have compassion from a safe distance. Which tbh is a more honest kind of compassion bc it is not linked to an outcome you want or bc it feels like something you 'should' do. Or expect to receive bc I'd bet your h has shown you very little empathy or compassion.
And I am absolutely saying that you move self-compassion front and centre first.....you can give your h anything that's then left over if you feel like it lol.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

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#24: July 26, 2020, 01:40:20 AM
Thank you again Treasur.

The things we learn and sense changing in ourselves with the passing of time and healing. So much.

Thank you again  :)
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Together 22 years
Married 16 years
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H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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#25: July 30, 2020, 03:36:01 PM
Well - I wanted to do an anchor check. To gauge his level of aggression before my lawyer and I talk about next steps. I really felt I needed to do this, so I did. I sent a short email and I included, that 'I am sorry this has happened, it was never what I wanted but I understand that he felt he had to do this and I accept that...'

H has been more cooperative with the separation if he has a little bit of contact with me. And he became more cooperative in the legal negotiations as the months went by also. He started out aggressive, blaming, shaming, wanting the division of property ASAP, wanting me out of the house so he could buy me out, kept pushing during Covid lock down ... - wild caged animal stuff.

He replied and I might just let it sit there until I have some clarity around if I should respond at a later date and if so, with what. Certainly a lot of guilt in his message, and I am not going to be the person I used to be and say 'oh, it's alright, we all make mistakes.' His guilt is his to carry and I am not going to soothe him. Nor will I reach out to my family to start to repair the damage he has done there, for him. I notice that he does not ask me to contact my parents for him - he tells me, which feels controlling. He had an attack at my family in one of his legal letters earlier this year. He caused that damage, not me, so I will not get involved.

In my email I stated that I have a contract pending so that he had an idea about timing. I don't have a lot of money to have all communication to go through lawyers, so for me, I wanted to test the waters to see if he is still being co-operative and willing to give me the time I need to sort out my finances, without me having to get my lawyer to tell him this for me. 

His response:

Thanks for this. And I will wait to hear from you as to how the contract goes - I hope it works out well for you.

And I am also so very sorry this happened - it was never my intention, but in the end, I just had to listen to how I felt. I will always be particularly sorry about how I left - I was not, frankly, quite in my right mind - that is not to excuse it, but it is by way of some kind of explanation. I want us both to find the happiness we seek - truly - and so I am also truly sorry for the hurt I have caused.

I also wanted to say that I would like to write to your family - it was never my intention simply to disappear without saying something to them - but I feel that I should wait until you and I have finally sorted everything out. But perhaps you might tell them that I will be in touch later, when the time is right. They mean a great deal to me, and so I am also sorry for the hurt I know my actions will have caused them.


It amazes me how he can come across as sounding so sane. It all just sounds like a sad break up where the couple drifted apart. But oh boy, it is not that kind of marriage break up. How he left was via a text message while he was away on business, never to be seen again.

Well, tears. So much sadness, grief. I still love my H and this is very very sad. But I wanted to keep the contact open with him. He only left 10 months ago, so of course he is not through his crisis and and turning back. He has only just begun. And I will be standing, certainly while I am still married. From a non MLC perspective, I would be in denial to be standing. But I want to give us both time to see where this crisis goes. I know what we had. I see now the unhealthy aspects of our marriage that I was blind to before. Were they reasons to end a marriage? For me, no ... they were reasons to heal and grow together through honest communication - but instead we heal and grow apart. He left with no communication in his MLC as per the script.

Thank you. Any advice welcome.
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« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 04:53:54 PM by Wonder »
Together 22 years
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#26: July 30, 2020, 04:44:55 PM
Wonder

Your H sounds well aware that he’s messed up right now.  Which is actually very astute for an MLCer.  He has seemingly acknowledged regret already.  That’s huge.

I forget how this MLC breed is described  - a Wallower, maybe?
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#27: July 30, 2020, 05:25:17 PM
The way I see it so far - he left in a 'panic' (his words) like an explosion and was lashing around attacking me, my family, my lawyer like an out of control caged animal. Then now, he has run out of energy to fight. Explosion to exhaustion.

He is now saying he wants me to buy the house, the aggression has gone (for now) is voicing guilt, wanting to apologise to my family. But I am not going to soothe his guilt. I am not doing that out of anger. I am doing it out of an awareness that in his mind I am not his wife any more so it is not my role to offer that kind of emotional support. He has to find his own way to work through his guilt and not use me to make it all better for him.

It was a good exercise for me to see how far along I am in detachment. Well ... getting there. I cried and cried in the shower after reading his email. But I have to let the tears out. I haven't cried properly in weeks.

Ten and a half months is a long time to go without seeing each other. Without having any idea what the other is up to. We do not know each other anymore and I know that.

He is a writer and he writes well, considered sentences. Right now his actions are somewhat matching some of his words in that he is voicing his guilt about his past actions and his actions now are much less aggressive, more cooperative. I know to keep my guard up. Right now he is in a wave of cooperation so I will see how long it lasts.

Thank you
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#28: July 30, 2020, 06:28:32 PM
Wonder

Yep that’s sooo MLC.  They’re like the Road Runner - running like their hair is on fire and leaving a cloud of smoke behind.  I never understood the urgency and still don’t. 

“Wave of cooperation” Lol....also sooo MLC.
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« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 07:35:06 PM by megogirl »

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#29: July 31, 2020, 02:40:01 PM
Wonder

Your H sounds well aware that he’s messed up right now.  Which is actually very astute for an MLCer.  He has seemingly acknowledged regret already.  That’s huge.

I forget how this MLC breed is described  - a Wallower, maybe?

Thanks for stopping by Megogirl.

Yes, it is interesting to see that in the 10 months since he has left he has gone from raging wild bull in a cage, lashing out at everyone (me, my lawyers, my family), yelling, hang up phone calls, aggressive emails... totally out of control and seeing nothing wrong with ending a marriage this way.

Now he has some guilt and shame and regrets around how he left the marriage. And of course, he carries on separating from me - we are only at 10 months post running away.

He has slowed down - he was at IMMEDIATELY for the final division of property in January and now he is happy for me to take the next 8 weeks to get a contract sorted. I communicated this in my email - to give him an update instead of going through my lawyer who would have just told him the same thing. That I need more time essentially. No push back from him at all. That is a big change.

I do have faith in him. He is in a crisis but he is also a wise man who looks inwards. He is wallowing away at his mothers and has cut contact with most of his friends. He reads and thinks and reads and thinks, trying to make sense of things.

I wanted him to know that I am sorry this has happened and it was not what I wanted. I also wanted to give him something positive in his depression and I told him that I knew he was a good man. I know he is a better man than those actions of his. I wanted to try this communication, to plant the seed that I accept his right to his feelings and that I am sorry but I am not angry. I am a safe space. The seed is now planted. I am feeling my way and trusting my gut on what to communicate - but nothing is done in haste. It took me two months to find the right time to send that email. It did not feel right prior to this week.

I had so little chance to get any of my voice in, as he just ran away. So now I have said those words in a manner that indicates he is free but it is not what I wanted. I also sense that he knows that I am still here for him, but I am giving him signs that I am letting him go. He does know how much he has hurt me and that hurt was because I loved him and chose him as my husband. I am letting him go and it hurts, but he has to sense that I am moving forward without him I feel. To have a feeling of really having lost me. I am not doing the letting go to control, I am letting go for my own healing so that I can focus on myself, and learn and grow and not get caught up in his own learning and growing ... which at this stage we can not do together.

It is tricky for me to know how much communication to keep with him. I am trying to follow my instincts on this and be aware as to why I am communicating with him if I chose to. Other advice is to go dark as he is essentially divorcing me, but I find he is more cooperative in our separation if he has some direct communication with me, as opposed to doing it all through the lawyers. I do not have a lot of money to have the lawyers do everything so right now I am finding the balance of what I can communicate with him and what I need my lawyer to communicate to protect me. It is a conscious strategy I am using at the moment. He is currently in a mindset of 'give Wonder everything so I can just get the heck out of here and be done with it'. So I don't need my lawyer for every detail right now. But she is there if he revs up again. And there for the big decisions around the house.

I keep our minimal communication very sparse, focusing mainly on finances. But the last one I wanted to do an anchor check and put in the 'I am sorry this happened, it was not what I wanted ...' And I am pleased I did, as it gave me some insight into where he is at.

His words that he wants us both to find happiness feels like projection to me. Is that what that is? He was unhappy so he assumed I was unhappy and seeking happiness also? I was happy in my marriage. I was happy with him as my life partner. I struggled the 6-months before he left as he had entered replay at that stage and was already running (traveling) and was totally cut off from me and disrespectful. But up until then, we had so much good. And of course, there was always work to do as we came together as two immature broken people, but we did our best and were happy.  But he perhaps no longer sees the happy times. And I feel he felt like he could no longer bring me happiness going by some of the words he said at BD.

He has told a friend that the knows he is in a crisis.
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« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 02:54:07 PM by Wonder »
Together 22 years
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#30: July 31, 2020, 04:23:03 PM
Hi Wonder,

Time will tell if/how he is moving through his crisis, or is he in a mid life transition perhaps since he seems quite aware that he is in a crisis of some sort and was able to articulate that he is "sorry that this happened"..yet he is still pushing forward with the divorce.

Before I found HS, when he would seemingly appear like he was coming closer to me in the first year after BD, I termed it flipping...the term used here is cycling.

There were 5 times in that first year that I was to go back to be with him, and the last of those 5 times, I was to move to another country that he had accepted an assignment in (without consulting me but I was game to go because I just wanted us to be together again)....

I watched for signs and spoke to other LBSers about any "movement" that I observed from him..waiting for that next email to me, waiting to hear that this was all a mistake.....time passed, years went by, sometimes he would ask me to go away on a  vacation with him, sometimes he would buy me expensive and thoughtful gifts, he always maintained some kind of contact with me even though he lived on different continents....

I am going to disagree with mego that his acknowledgement of regret is "huge". There is a great deal of confusion in their minds in those first couple of years and it keeps us in a state of waiting..because why else would they continue to be in contact with us unless they missed us and wanted to come home but somehow they just can't....

We really do not know what is going through their minds, and it changes from one day to the next..MLC takes a long time. The anger and raging has calmed down from the early days...but that could be because he is more sure that what he wants is to be let out of all responsibility and to be free.

Often, as long as we remain the "good girl" they will be "nice"..they wear their masks well.

No one could have told me what I am telling you in those early years, I just would not have "listened". I do believe in MLC Wonder and some MLCers make it back home...continue to work towards protecting yourself financially and building a life without him.

Your life now is what matters. He is on his own journey. I agree that being calm and kind is fine....it is who I want to be and I am one that sees that something really terrible happened for this Beloved spouse to do the things he has done....just keep moving forward , make new friends, find work if you need $$, talk to professionals about financial planning for your future, take care of yourself physically, emotionally and try not to get sucked into the changing words/actions of the MLCer...for they wear you down and stop you from finding a life of your own.

He can always join you later on, if that is what you wish....the problem with their contact is that it reinforces our desire for them, for the life that we had and can prevent us from living in the moment and preparing for a future without them.
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#31: July 31, 2020, 11:52:30 PM
Thank you xyzcf,

I appreciate your words here. And hearing about your experience.

I am not too familiar with the difference between a MLC and a transition. I thought that if the MLC spouse blew up their family and ran away it was a crisis? The thing about my h's crisis is that it really exploded during the 6-months after he halved his prozac dose, suddenly, on his on accord, in January 2019. He changed rapidly after that. I am not insinuating that halving his medication caused the crisis, he was already in his crisis (the early stages for a couple of years before this). But the lowering of his medication appears to have ripped the lid off, and he just changed so quickly. It is a big deal to halve the seratonin to ones brain, from one day to the next, after one's brain knowing the higher dose for over 20 years.

Yes, the fact is, I have no idea what he is doing. I do not know if he is a wallower .... for all I know he could be going to strip bars every night and have multiple affair partners. I have no idea. And he is certainly not the man I knew so I can't let myself go down the path of assuming he is acting this way or that, that is for sure.

His words and actions towards me, indicate to me, that he has run out of steam a bit for now and there is guilt. But I don't really know. He is less aggressive, less psychotic, and being patient with me and my right to time which I paid my lawyer a lot of money to gain for me. His 'I am so very sorry' email is just written words and he is a writer who can mask behind words very well. His words have an emptiness to them to me, but perhaps that is because I have never known this man outside of our love - he no longer appears to love me so his words certainly have a sterile feel to them. He feels like a stranger, as he is.

I won't be replying to his email as there is nothing for me to say. I have put it away in a 'Separation' folder and don't need to read it again. I keep my contact with him minimal as I need to focus on me, building my own life, it takes a lot of energy re-starting one's life from scratch. We have only had about 6 emails in the 10 months since he left. All about finances except for this last one where I added the extra.

I have my lawyer informed and ready to step in at any moment if I need. I am protected. She is wary of him. The way I have organised it with my lawyer, is that she is there dealing with the division of assets and I deal with small things directly with H. And so far that is working in my favour, so I continue that. It is working better than doing everything through the lawyers. But I am on guard that it might change. Feeling my way with communication with him. I have said what I wanted to say, I see he is continuing with the divorce so I won't be sending any emails that are not finance-related. I can not be his friend after being his partner for over 20 years.

I don't feel he is cycling towards me. He is still very clear in his mind that he wants a life without me.

Hard and painful path, and I try my best to let him go. I grieve.

Thank you

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« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 12:07:17 AM by Wonder »
Together 22 years
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#32: August 01, 2020, 12:28:58 AM
Quote
Right now his actions are somewhat matching some of his words in that he is voicing his guilt about his past actions and his actions now are much less aggressive, more cooperative. I know to keep my guard up. Right now he is in a wave of cooperation so I will see how long it lasts.

You seem to be remarkably level-headed, Wonder, for what in crisis time is pretty early days.
We all, I think, have to be careful as LBS of the natural instinct to confirmation bias....to having a belief and seeing what we want to see that fits that. Which is normal and understandable, but not always very helpful. With hindsight and time, it is easier to keep it simpler.....to need to label less and to just focus on their actions and the effects on our own life of those actions. And if a given approach is working for you currently, carry on doing that until or unless it stops working  :)

Tbh I think one of the wisest things you say is that you do not know your h any longer, at least not now.

Broadly speaking, that is the reality for most LBS and it is a strange reality after knowing someone intimately for so long isn't it? But it took many of us much longer to accept that, so you are doing well. It doesn't change some of the emotions or remove the grief; those seem to take their own course. But it will help you to navigate this 'new normal' with less self-inflicted damage from expecting your h to behave like the person you knew imho.
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H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
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#33: August 01, 2020, 12:41:22 AM
Hi and Thanks Treasur,

Thanks for this confirmation that I am on track:
Quote
And if a given approach is working for you currently, carry on doing that until or unless it stops working  :)

The communication I have with h for now is working in terms of what I need in his legal separation. He was cooperative in giving me time to see how this new contract goes before progressing his separation.

I can handle the odd email with him. I would rather do that then spend hundreds of dollars for my lawyer to write a simple email about the power bill in my place. For now he is cooperating with me, yes.

Thank you

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#34: August 01, 2020, 06:10:47 AM
Hi Wonder,

After spending thousands in lawyer's fees, my husband called me up and proposed a settlement that our highly paid "lawyers" had not considered....it was very much to my benefit and so after mediation and lawyers visits which cost an outrageous amount of money, I presented this to my lawyer and she felt it was the best deal I was liable to get. I totally agree that it is possible and far less costly to be able to work out many details between the two of you.

I often said that I had to separate the "business" from the "emotions" and get the best settlement I could..because I couldn't go back after and get any more. You are taking your time to make sure you have everything covered and that is great!

I mentioned a mid life transition because there have been some spouses who have a "short" and less severe crisis and they don't blow up everything. There is really no way to tell until later in the process perhaps so I am not at all suggesting that your husband is having one or the other.

The antidepressants and the sudden decrease in dose could be a factor as well.

As we often say, MLC is a combination of physical, biochemical, psychological factors..add fear of getting older, stress and childhood trauma and family of origin issues and who have this "soup" of factors that contribute to their crisis.and probably other factors as well.

You are doing very well and making sure that you are taking care of things and being well informed on issues. Good stuff!

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#35: August 01, 2020, 09:21:38 AM
Hello Wonder,
I have been following your story.  Bomb drop for me was 5/19 H left 12/19 married 40 years. Selfishly i read in great detail your post (looking for similarities) and the Veterans responses.  I am always amazed in the strength of others.

I especially liked your comment; "but i am not going to soothe his guilt".  I do not initiate contact w H but i do reply when he texts.  I do this to avoid the pain it causes me when he occasionally does not respond or says something i did not want to hear (no expectations).

I talked to H over the phone July 26 first live chat since 12/19.  H is not raging never really did but it was clear i was not speaking to my husband.  He was confused and spoke about all the bad luck going on in his life and could not stay on topic.  I listen to Kenda and the Veterans and for the first time in our 40 years i did not offer him a solution to his problems.

If H ever decides to have the "I am sorry" conversation with me i want to be able to answer and not say " that's ok".  Because as you know it's not ok.

You are doing great, i suggest that you be cautious with any kindness he shows at this stage.  As LBS'rs we all look for that nugget that makes us believe they are coming back to us.  As the Veterans say MLC is a marathon not a sprint and it takes time. 

I will be following you posts
5Hil

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#36: August 01, 2020, 01:42:03 PM
Hi xyzcf - thnk you again for stopping by.

And it is good to hear these words of yours as I really feel I am doing the right thing just now in trying to work out some of the settlement with H directly. And I have my lawyer there if he starts to demand unreasonably again.

Quote
After spending thousands in lawyer's fees, my husband called me up and proposed a settlement that our highly paid "lawyers" had not considered....it was very much to my benefit and so after mediation and lawyers visits which cost an outrageous amount of money, I presented this to my lawyer and she felt it was the best deal I was liable to get. I totally agree that it is possible and far less costly to be able to work out many details between the two of you.

Yes, well H is certainly on the path of blowing everything up. He is divorcing me. But yes, time will tell. I am healing. This is painful. I am still learning how to live with the shock of his sudden running away and just disappearing from my life. I am getting my own life on to a path of it's own. It all takes a lot of energy especially while I am grieving the loss of my life partner and best friend. He changed so very suddenly from 'I am struggling with myself, it is not us' to his running away to be alone and straight to divorce. All exploded in this direction over a 4-month period but of course he never said anything to me, I just sensed he withdrew and started acting differently - his energy changed. Decision made.

5hil - it is so nice to meet you and I am sorry that it is in these circumstances.

Our BD's were actually around the same time. My BD1 was May 2019 - 'I feel like the relationship is one-sided'. And the anger and withdrawal revved up and he just started acting 'strange' to me. The disrepsect came in. I did not even know what to talk about with him. I didn't know him anymore, I now see in hindsight.

So, I am right with you in terms of timing. 40 years of marriage is so long. Sending you support.

Communication in these early days isn't easy, is it? I still cycle after emails from H. I woke up in tears this morning. I am staying with my parents and all the memories of the times H and I woke up in this bed together. Grieving takes time, so much time.

For me, I just sense that H now has some awareness that his behavior was not good in the way that he left. He has said I am sorry for that but I know that if I was to do something bad to another person and I really felt remorse, not just guilt, I would go about trying to repair the damage I had done, not just write in an email 'I am so very sorry'. If my H gets to remorse that won't be until much later in his crisis - from what I have learned he is not strong enough yet to be able to fully see what he has done and just how destructive his actions were to me. I am learning the difference between guilt (which can be selfish) and true remorse. If H was ever to talk to me directly about being so very sorry, I would potentially ask him 'And what are you going to do about that'. Put it back to him so as not to take his guilt-sorry away from him. It is not mine to carry. And I will not be replying to his 'I am sorry' email. The old me, the Wonder who H saw as his wife, would have offered him comfort, told him it is ok, gone into a conversation about how he/we can repair the damage. But this is not that kind of situation. He has no intention of repairing the damage at this stage - he continues to divorce me.

Yes, H's kindness is strange for me - it is a 'kindness' from a stranger. It is devoid of the love we shared for over 20 years. I am getting better at disassociating his kindness from all the happy memories of the life we shared. Some days, moments are a lot easier than others.

I do have faith in him and our marriage. Just a matter of months before he left, before BD1 - I remember us hugging in the kitchen saying to each other how lucky we were to have each other, how it is hard to find a partner like we have found in each other. We loved each other. We loved sharing life together. In April 2019 he wrote in his wedding anniversary card to me 'Thank you for choosing to share life with me'. Then in Sept, he was gone.

I will follow along your thread also. Take care.
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 02:04:24 PM by Wonder »
Together 22 years
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#37: August 01, 2020, 04:14:27 PM
Hello Wonder. I’m not sure I’ve written on your thread before but I’m following along. I just wanted to say how well I think you’re doing. It’s remarkable how similar most of our stories are and some even more than others. I am exactly a year ahead of you (BD1 April 18, gone Sep 18, told me over the phone) and still feel the shock of what has happened daily. Your story and how your marriage was and your feeling for your H, and even how your H has acted/progressed (if we can call what they’re doing ‘progress’) are very familiar to me. Where we differ is you’ve gotten yourself to a better place much quicker than me! lol I spun and spun for at least 14 months and I still flop all over the place with my feelings. Because of this I don’t post much because I don’t feel I can offer much good advice to others. But I am all for encouraging others and honouring how well they are doing. And also for thanking them for sharing their stories so I feel less crazy! So thanks, I’ll continue to follow along and learn from those members like yourself who might be behind me in distance-from-BD but are ahead in their healing.
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M: 50 (48 @ BD)
H: 53 (51 @ BD)
Married 20yrs, together 23yrs
D: 21 (19 @ BD)
D: 19 (17 @ BD)
'Extra D': 19 (17 @ BD)
BD (that I didn't recognise as such) Easter 2018
BD 9th Sep 2018
OW (45, now 47) - he met her in the pub a week before BD, told me about her a week after BD. Thinks 'their planets have collided' because 'their eyes met across the room' and they had an 'instant connection'. Lives with her. Is building a life with her. Jun 20: H plans to buy a block of land and build a house with her.

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#38: August 01, 2020, 05:21:24 PM
I read somewhere that the flip is sudden and quick and they move on to escape and avoid.  My H left on his annual family visit in April 2019.  While he was in the airport he sent me an Italian love song that said "dont worry i will always come back". On Valentine's 2019 he gave me a beautiful card and a heart shape planter with plants that were still alive when he returned.  But upon his return after a few days i realized he never came back.
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#39: August 01, 2020, 09:13:52 PM
Hello Evemore - good to meet you also, in this very hard circumstances. I am sorry you are here, I feel for all LBS - this is one hard path to walk.

Thank you for your kind words. Honestly, I have my moments. I still cry, I still feel in shock, I grieve - but I was fortunate to find Heart Blessings just a month after H left and I feel I have been studying MLC ever since. So I am walking my journey, and it is far for easy or comfortable. But I have come a long way from the first months where I was essentially in bed all day every day. I just shut down totally and was in a total panic. His text triggered an acute stress disorder in me which progressed to PTSD. I have a good therapist who has been very helpful. And my yoga practice to release stored tension in my body and walks/runs on the beach.

My H does not yet have a known AP - that would have been too much for me at BD - but I prepare myself for it in the future. I send so much support to those of you who had to cope wtih AP at BD or shortly after.

5hil - yes, the change I can now see gradually built in confusion in H and than BAMB, once the train left the station he was off and the speed just kept on picking up.

Thank you
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Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#40: August 03, 2020, 04:27:17 PM
Wonder

You may be surprised when (if?) you learn of an AP.  It’s devastating, but oddly also a relief.  It puts an end to the mystery.

It also provides confirmation that they’re (most likely) in a MLC.
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Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#41: August 03, 2020, 05:00:20 PM
Thanks Megogirl,

I have no doubt in the whole of my being that this is MLC.
He appeared to have a fantasy about our pilates teacher, but that was just in his mind, certainly not hers. That I know.
He may have gone back to the woman he had an affair with, behind our shared friend's back, just before we were together.
But I try not to torture myself in trying to guess.
He left telling other woman that I don't meet his needs (how very disrespectful to say that about me to other women) so he may well be on a mission to get his changed needs met.

I did not listen to my intuition when we first got together over 20 years ago. I feared he would do to me what his father did to his mother (MLC affair, blew up family, moved home and out again). And I suppose subconsciously this fear of mine was always there. Now I prepare myself to learn the truth. But at the same time it would not surprise me if he is just in multiple EA's with unavailable women. But, what do I know. I have no idea.

Hard path to walk.

Thanks.
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Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

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Re: Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#42: August 03, 2020, 05:05:49 PM
Mego that could be true, but my XH went 7/8 years after his divorce and he never had, or found an ow.  Some Wallowers just never do.  They don't have the energy for it.
His alienator was his work.

I would say, sure be aware and keep your eyes open, and be prepared but it is not a slam dunk there is always someone else, Wonder.
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Hello - new to this board, seeking support
#43: August 03, 2020, 05:19:14 PM
Thanks Thunder,

I do know there was no PA before left. Just a little personal insight I have.
I don't try to torture myself. I don't know but what I do know is he is very very broken and ran home to his mother 'for loving and nurturing'. He ran to his mums not the arms of another woman when he left.

Deep breaths. Thank you
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Together 22 years
Married 16 years
BD1 - BD3 May to September 2019
H runs away via text message September 2019
Moves in with his mother
His legal separation is underway since Jan 2020

 

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