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Author Topic: Off-Topic Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4

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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Joining the new thread, xy. Thank you.
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More data in an intriguing correlation between TB vaccine and reduction in mortality. I haven’t seen any theories as to why, but it seems data shows a correlation on countries that have a consistent TB vaccination policy and reduction in deaths when all other factors are accounted for. It doesn’t appear enough to recommend vaccinations, at least not right now. But it may an interesting path to follow about why and how it could be used.

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/07/07/2008410117

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So much research being done worldwide.

Everyday, new information is added to the body of knowledge.

I was very interested in the article marvin posted concerning BCG vaccination both because I was given BCG as a child in Quebec and I once was head of a tuberculosis program in the public health dept that I worked in.

Here is the issue though, information like this comes out and well meaning people think, ok, let's start giving people BCG. However, the vaccine itself has several risks and the following is a concern when it comes to identifying actual cases of tuberculosis.

"Another concern with the administration of BCG is its effect on the tuberculin skin test. Because administration of BCG induces a positive skin test of variable size in a large proportion of vaccinated individuals, this reaction will make the interpretation of skin test results in contact tracing more difficult and, thus, damage a valuable tool in the control of TB transmission in the community."

As an aside, if you have ever had a positive skin test (and the measurement that indicates it to be positive depends on several facts so best to consult and expert on this) you should not have another skin test done as it can get progressively larger each time you are given it.

Many of you may have received a Mantoux test to rule out that you have been exposed to TB or have active disease. I have a very severe reaction to this test most probably because I received BCG as a child. Vaccines do not give us complete immunity to a disease so I could still get TB...only a skin test, which is one of the main tools used to determine if I have been exposed is useless in my case.

The problem with all the misinformation floating about is that immunology is very complicated and the ordinary person is not really going to be able to understand some or most of it.

The CDC does an amazing job of simplifying information so that the general public can understand infectious diseases better.

I am terribly disturbed that the US is going to withdraw from the WHO because it is the WHO that coordinates the many health issues world wide. We are a global family and what happens in other countries can and will impact the health of this nation..whether you agree or not that we should discuss issues on HS from a political standpoint, the reality is that withdrawl from the WHO will be bad for the US and ultimately the world.
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« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 03:24:01 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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I know that some of our US folks here might feel that the US is getting a lot of attention (and judgment) about its response to the coronavirus. It seems to me though that they are far from alone in finding that their politicians and political system has not worked as well as we might all have wished. I guess this kind of crisis highlights the inherent character of those in power and the weaknesses of our existing systems.

Here in the UK, the NHS has many things about it for which we feel grateful. But we have not been particularly competent in dealing with the practicalities of the crisis and people have lost confidence in a government system that communicates poorly and seems to be looking for political scapegoats. And some priorities that seem odd and last minute announcements that seem not to be well thought through before announcement. With a compassionate eye, one can accept that all of us - including politicians - are dealing with a set of complex and novel challenges and that there are many areas of uncertainty. But sometimes one just has that feeling that the world looks a bit different if you are sitting inside a political bunker than it does outside in the real world. As an example.....the NHS went through two significant bouts of large scale organisational restructuring in 2002 and 2012. Both were expensive, long drawn out and created long periods of confusion about control and accountability. Both had large elements of cutting large bits into smaller bodies and creating various versions of an internal 'market' and the use of 3rd party providers outside the NHS. It is not a primary sector of expertise for me when I was a consultant working with leadership teams, but on the few occasions I did I saw a system that, despite the best efforts of many good people, had been thrown into a world with very unclear boundaries and relationships between disparate parts. A process of being 'given' a structure that took a few years for humans to work out how to make it work that brought a tremendous amount of stress to those working in it.....

And now apparently Mr Johnson has decided according to the latest news that NOW is a good time to reorganise the NHS again......https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/10/what-might-boris-johnson-restructing-plan-mean-for-the-nhs

All I could do was shake my head in disbelief.....
Do I think that this crisis is also a way to reimagine how bits of our societies and systems might work differently? Yes. Do I think that this crisis may have shown us weaknesses or highlighted new priorities? Yes
Do I think that - when we are still navigating a crisis with a barely functioning economy and exhausted NHS staff who have pulled miracle rabbits out of hats for the last few months and without an efficient test/trace system or time to have set up a 'new normal' way of wider health and social care operating in the absence of a vaccine - NOW is the time to unleash a huge restructuring process run by a government that has not yet shown that it is operationally and logistically very competent? Oh my goodness, no. Even if the goals of it were clear and worthwhile, this kind of restructuring is messy, complicated and takes a lot of organisational energy.  It is depressing to even think what a hash could be created or how much it might distract energy from the realities that need to be dealt with yet. And we have not withdrawn from WHO, true enough, but we have withdrawn from EU bodies linked to vaccination issues bc of a still pretty unclear Brexit departure at the end of the year....a tow-headed politician who withers on about going to the pub or blames care homes or spends millions on tracing apps that everyone knows don't work starts to look rather out of touch with the reality of life for his voters

Looking from the outside, it seems to me that we are all judging our politicians and systems of collective governance with a different eye than we did before this crisis. I have no idea at all where that will take us in any of our countries.....but I'm pretty clear that no one country takes the single prize for incompetence. Mr Trump is noisy and the US is a significant global player historically, that's true, but all of us are likely to be dealing with changes in how we see ourselves as countries, societies and communities....and the extent to which our political systems seem fit for new purpose or not.

Trust seems to me to be a newly important thing.
The absence of trust in our collective bodies....government, healthcare, corporate entities...makes it more difficult to operate collectively doesn't it? And every time we feel gaslit by what they say or do, a little bit more of that trust is chipped away.

And, even if we had the perfect vaccine, any programme of vaccination would have to do much better than the average current percentage take up of say annual flu vaccines in order to achieve its minimum collective immunity goal. Will people trust either the politicians or experts sufficiently to be vaccinated if that becomes a possibility? Idk. Finding sources of information that each of us feels we can trust is an important bit of the process for all of us isn't it? And some of the behaviour we see in our fellow citizens seems to me to be part of that unfolding process of how we all choose to respond when things are not so clear or when we don't have the kind of feeling of control or certainty that as humans we crave. Jmo.
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« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 11:37:08 PM by Treasur »
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I have no desire to denigrate my own gender but here are a few interesting articles related to Treasur's post.

Countries with female leaders suffer six times fewer COVID-19 deaths
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-countries-female-leaders-covid-deaths.html

Why Are Women-Led Nations Doing Better With Covid-19?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/15/world/coronavirus-women-leaders.html

What Do Countries With The Best Coronavirus Responses Have In Common? Women Leaders
https://www.forbes.com/sites/avivahwittenbergcox/2020/04/13/what-do-countries-with-the-best-coronavirus-reponses-have-in-common-women-leaders/#70be46133dec

Are women leaders better at fighting coronavirus? It’s complicated.
https://www.vox.com/2020/5/21/21263766/coronavirus-women-leaders-germany-new-zealand-taiwan-merkel
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Dr Abdu Sharkway is a physician in Toronto that is down to earth and very specific about some ways to keep yourself safe. Here was a list he posted of ways to be able to entertain outdoors and some things to follow which I found very helpful.


Dr. Abdu Sharkawy
2 hrs
Covid-19 Summer Series (Segment #1)
BBQ Season: Grilling and Chilling

Want to enjoy summer with your friends and family with some great food and conversation? Me too. Here are my “Grill master Tips” for enjoying some eats and greets.

1. Hand Hygiene. Hand sanitizer before and after food prep and eating for all. Duh. Don’t forget that it should be at least 60% alcohol-based to effectively kill most viruses and bacteria. Baby wipes and other wipes are not reliable for this purpose and should be avoided. Soap and water is best but requires guests entering your home which should not be encouraged. Lysol wipes are best reserved for disinfecting surfaces and are not healthy for your skin.

2. Distancing. Outdoor transmission of Covid-19 is rare but not non-existent. Keep your chairs 6 feet apart if possible and avoid sitting next to one another on tables. Picnic blankets or mats on your lawn or similar space are options as well to allow more room and comfort for everyone. You do NOT need a mask outdoors if you are seated at a distance.

3. Food preparation. Too many cooks spoil the soup, right? Well, too many hands on the grill means too many bugs to kill! One person should be designated as lead cook/chef. If you have a more elaborate menu and need help, the chefs/kitchen staff should be limited to members of your own household at the very least. In my home, I am the Grill master and as the resident lead “germaphobe”, this bodes well for my guests!

4. Serving. Bugs love the buffet more than you do! Like food prep, serving should be done by one designated person only. No buffet or family style serving arrangements please. Pre-served meals is another option. Think of it as hospitality Covid-19 style ; ) Everyone should maintain their own utensils and should have pre-placed napkins, wipes available to them at their seating areas.

5. Beverages. If you have a pitcher of your favorite brew or mix, one person does the serving (is there an echo in here?). Reusable cups or beverage containers should be labeled with names or somehow marked to distinguish as their own.

6. Bathrooms. It’s awkward to tell your guests they can’t use your washroom, especially if you are the one who filled them up with food and drink like it was Mardi Gras. But... you don’t want to encourage it freely and allow possible indoor exposures if avoidable. If not, ensure kids are accompanied with an adult and that the washroom is wiped down (sink and toilet) between uses.

Enjoy the grill! Coming up next...Parks, Playgrounds and Playdates.
Stay informed. Stay safe and stay healthy everyone!

#GrillNChill #CoVidSummerSeries #CoVidNotIncluded

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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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A summary of where things stands with various treatments and drugs as the evidence and data points to today. Good information based on hard science. Rated on a scale of from strong evidence to pseudoscience/fraud.

Hydroxychloroquine is in the "not promising" group, one up from Ineffective and harmful.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-drugs-treatments.html
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Anecdotally, this latest idea that USA hospitals should bypass the known channels and report COVID-19 data directly to the Trump administration rather than to the CDC...

Politics aside, this causes disruption in the hospital environment just as it would for any other organization. In the science environments, we have to adapt protocols, trainings, and work procedures with associated documentation, before we are authorized to perform the new or changed task(s). And the organization or company has to report to whatever governing or standardization body that we have met the new standard. That means every worker is required to take time out of existing work tasks to sit through and complete the required training.

Everyone dislikes this, even if we understand why a particular change and retraining is now needed. Which, often it’s *not* understood exactly why. Global standards eventually make sense. Arbitrary ones usually don’t. So there’s dissent, and if there’s too much change or the wrong kind of change, people burn out and then you have employee exodus or loss of workers who hold a ton of key tribal knowledge and expertise. Then the work falls to employees who remain, or new ones are hired...and have to be trained. Which takes time. And often a period of handholding or organizational mentorship, which, in the sciences and medical fields, we don’t really have time for that, even in ordinary times, which these are definitely not.

I say “we” but I don’t speak for everyone of course. Just my observation over the course of decades and many environments with more people than I can count.

I’m not actually working right now, in those fields or any others. Partly because these environments are so pressured at this time, that hiring has come to a dead stop or is very, very, very particular. Because right now is just astounding.

I hope everyone here is doing well. We have I think months to go before the health crisis begins to resolve. I find most of the news pretty unsettling, not just because it is overall pretty scary, but because the governmental actions and/or reasoning have direct impact on my ability to find work in the environments that made so much of my career.

Weird times, for sure. Just continue doing what is smart, what your doctors would advise, and let’s get through all this.

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A summary of where things stands with various treatments and drugs as the evidence and data points to today. Good information based on hard science. Rated on a scale of from strong evidence to pseudoscience/fraud.

Hydroxychloroquine is in the "not promising" group, one up from Ineffective and harmful.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-drugs-treatments.html
Very informative. This article needs to be read very carefully, though.
"Putting out Friendly Fire"
STRONG EVIDENCE
"Dexamethasone
This cheap and widely available steroid blunts many types of immune responses. Doctors have long used it to treat allergies, asthma and inflammation. In June, it became the first drug shown to reduce Covid-19 deaths. That study of more than 6,000 people, which has not yet been published in a scientific journal, found that dexamethasone reduced deaths by one-third in patients on ventilators, and by one-fifth in patients on oxygen. It may be less likely to help — and may even harm — patients who are at an earlier stage of Covid-19 infections, however.

BBM. The study has not been peer reviewed AND may even cause harm in some cases. While it might end up the be all, end all study for this particular drug for "Putting out Friendly Fire" for SOME cases of Covid, it might not for others. (How this equates to Strong Evidence for ALL of Covid cases/deaths, I'm not quite sure, I need to look further). This is where reading skills come in handy.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#10: July 16, 2020, 06:36:19 PM
Offroad this is a summary of info, not source material. It is pretty accurate overall.

The issue with steroids is its a very tricky balance. Too little and you don’t shut down the cytokine storm. Too much and you depress immune system too much and let the virus run rampant. So when the article is published we can all read and others will review. But it would make sense that if the patient is given steroids too soon, before the storm sets in, it may act more to suppress the immune system.

But there is also front line reports that use of steroids can help when this happens. So its not treating the virus, but the side effect.

Understanding the mechanisms also helps with interpreting the data. Trust the experts and follow their lead.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#11: July 16, 2020, 11:51:45 PM
Regarding the TB vaccine I believe there is definitely some truth in it.  Here in South Africa most people are vaccinated against TB and looking at the cases today, we are 6th highest in the world for the number of infected people 324,221 but have only had 4,669 die.  I am not minimising the deaths but our infection rate has been higher than the UK as they have had 292,552 but 45,119 deaths.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#12: July 18, 2020, 02:47:32 PM
More encouraging results, although preliminary and not yet reviewed. But it shows that 90% of people show neutralizing anti-bodies 3 months after infection, which is a good indicator for immunity. This would apply for antibody testing and for vaccines (assuming people actually get vaccinated).

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.14.20151126v1

“Here we report that the vast majority of infected individuals with mild-to-moderate COVID-19 experience robust IgG antibody responses against the viral spike protein, based on a dataset of 19,860 individuals screened at Mount Sinai Health System in New York City. We also show that titers are stable for at least a period approximating three months, and that anti-spike binding titers significantly correlate with neutralization of authentic SARS-CoV-2. Our data suggests that more than 90% of seroconverters make detectible neutralizing antibody responses and that these titers are stable for at least the near-term future.”
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#13: July 18, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
And more interesting information coming out:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

“ A large new study from South Korea offers an answer: Children younger than 10 transmit to others much less often than adults do, but the risk is not zero. And those between the ages of 10 and 19 can spread the virus at least as well as adults do.

The findings suggest that as schools reopen, communities will see clusters of infection take root that include children of all ages, several experts cautioned.”
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#14: July 20, 2020, 06:00:17 AM
Another positive early trial for treatment, beta interferon in inhaler form shows 79% improvement of odds in progressing to ventilation or death. Caution is it’s an early trial, more data needed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/20/trial-of-covid-19-coronavirus-drug-given-via-inhaler-sng001-very-promising-say-scientists
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#15: July 20, 2020, 06:31:30 AM
Thank you so much marvin for continuing to share with us the research that is coming out....needing this hope so much as time drags on.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#16: July 20, 2020, 07:44:07 AM
Glad to continue a fact and science based discussion anytime. Here is one more bit of early good news:

"Oxford coronavirus vaccine triggers immune response, trial shows
Early results also indicate vaccine is safe, raising hopes it could help end pandemic"


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/20/oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-triggers-immune-response-trial-shows
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#17: July 20, 2020, 09:51:59 AM
Glad to continue a fact and science based discussion anytime. Here is one more bit of early good news:

"Oxford coronavirus vaccine triggers immune response, trial shows
Early results also indicate vaccine is safe, raising hopes it could help end pandemic"


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/20/oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-triggers-immune-response-trial-shows


https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-oxford-vaccine-appears-to-have-surpassed-expectations

I’m taking part in this.  I was accepted and vaccinated a month ago .  It’s an interesting experience to be involved in.
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« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 10:02:32 AM by Nerissa »

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#18: July 20, 2020, 01:41:24 PM
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-oxford-vaccine-appears-to-have-surpassed-expectations

I’m taking part in this.  I was accepted and vaccinated a month ago .  It’s an interesting experience to be involved in.

That is excellent news. Are you allowed to share any experiences or is it under NDA?
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#19: July 21, 2020, 02:43:37 AM
There’s no NDA as I don’t have any confidential info because it is all ‘blind’.   We are advised against putting it on social media in case of unwanted attention.  I may have had the ‘ChadOx vaccination or a meningitis/sepsis vacc, as that is the placebo.  I received one dose and another group received two.  I am part of a group of people aged between 56 and 69 because they rolled it out to an older age group a month ago.  I know a few younger people in the initial trial and they are all fine.

It’s all very carefully done:  information to tell us about possible risks; permission to exit the trial at any time without giving a reason.   A lot of hospital visits and blood tests; daily electronic communication to update them on my health; weekly covid tests; a social and exercise diary  to inform them of my contacts and length/kind of contact (eg ‘5 hours at less than 2 metres’ is one category.


I had an initial mild reaction of the kind to be expected after a vaccination.  Otherwise all normal.  I understand I will know in about a year the details of what I was given.

The problem is that there is not enough virus in the community for us to be reliably exposed so they have sent it to Brazil
And South Africa.  I have read they are considering vaccination and then infecting some healthy young people.  This is unusual, but the rationale is that the young are at limited risk; the results are promising and if infected, effective  treatment is now available.  I don’t know whether this will actually happen.

We’ll find out in time I guess.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#20: July 21, 2020, 06:01:55 AM
I wanted to thank you Nerissa for volunteering to receive the vaccine in clinical trials.

This vaccine is sounding very good. I often tell people who are skeptical that we have made several vaccines in the past so there is good science regarding this...it's not just something new..and if I understand correctly, Cambridge had been working on corona virus vaccines for several years.

I will say though that you are very brave to be one of the test subjects!
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 06:39:42 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#21: July 21, 2020, 06:35:15 AM
I had an initial mild reaction of the kind to be expected after a vaccination.  Otherwise all normal.  I understand I will know in about a year the details of what I was given.

Well it seems that you must have gotten something if you had a reaction.
This is great anecdotal information, thank you for sharing.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#22: July 21, 2020, 06:36:15 AM
I will say though that you are very brave to be one of the test subjects!

It does take a sense of volunteering, community and caring for others and bravery. Kind of the polar opposite of the narcissistic non mask wearing people who want their "freedoms."

But vaccines, even in trial, are relatively safe. Not that there can not be some adverse reaction, but we do not expose humans to dangerous test situations without precursor testing and/or a clear understanding of the procedure. For example if the vaccine is made of proteins from the surface of the virus (which I believe most are targeting specific ones) then it is really just using the same procedure we know well (safe) but using a different protein "signature" to teach the immune system. The overall reactions should be very much in line with other similar vaccines. Question is are we teaching the right signature and will immune system then respond rapidly to the real virus.

And mild reactions are actually normal, this is part of the light immune reaction that some subjects have. In fact in some vaccines having no reaction may be an indication that there was no immune response (but not always).
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#23: July 21, 2020, 03:14:23 PM
Fascinating stuff. Incredible really.

Here in Italy, we have been 'free' since May 18th, so over 2 months. We are still obligated to wear masks indoors in public places, but since the beginning of July, it's no longer illegal not to wear a mask outdoors, although most people still wear a mask outside, especially in busy streets. Restaurants and stores can scan you to take your temperature, and you must use antibacterial gel before entering. Gel must be provided by all stores, restaurants, gas stations, etc. It seems to be working quite well so far. Our numbers are pretty good. We've had a slight increase just lately due to foreigners entering the country (15 out of 17 cases in Tuscany are foreigners) . We are getting some northern European tourists, but we were also allowing flights from the middle east and other places. They are now on hold.

I'm only a lay person, but my impression is that we are much better equipped now if we are to have an outbreak, than we were the first time. We have more hospital beds, and we have some treatments that help. A vaccination is the best possible solution, but the positive trials on drugs such as this steroid (apologies to the scientists out there for not knowing the correct term) are going to be a huge help, too.

From those I've known who've had this virus without serious consequences, it is a very nasty flu. It's not your regular flu. I think the secret is being able to monitor those who are very sick in a hospital environment as soon as possible. I heard on the news tonight here, that they are seeking more doctors.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#24: July 22, 2020, 03:22:21 AM
Quote
if I understand correctly, Cambridge had been working on corona virus vaccines for several years
.

Yes, XYCZF, specifically MERS, I think, which is also a coronavirus, so much initial work was already completed.

I don’t Think I am  brave because, as Marvin said, they don’t just administer trials on people without a vast amount of information about safety.

 I suppose the nuances of science are complicated.  They are rarely ‘sure’, but fairly sure; rarely ‘safe’ but ‘safer’.  Things happen ‘rarely’ rather than ‘never’.  I think this often confuses us when the reality is that we haven’t learned enough about science, and the complexities feel too onerous to read in articles which try to communicate science to a lay public.  The  headlines creating fear are more attention grabbing.

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« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 03:26:20 AM by Nerissa »

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#25: July 22, 2020, 05:06:45 AM
From those I've known who've had this virus without serious consequences, it is a very nasty flu. It's not your regular flu.

I agree and since I have had it now since May 4,
I am wondering if I will ever get rid of all the symptoms.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#26: July 22, 2020, 05:49:16 AM
Quote
I agree and since I have had it now since May 4,
I am wondering if I will ever get rid of all the symptoms.

I am so sorry OP. I see stories of several people whose symptoms stay longer than what is "expected". I pray that you will recover completely very soon.

I am thinking about other infectious diseases that sometimes linger, mononucleosis comes to mind as one that can take several weeks before the person feels normal. Yet in others, it clears more quickly. Each person's body responds differently, not only to COVID.

Vaccine preventable diseases like chickenpox and measles do not usually cause any long term harm, but in some individuals, there are long term effects and even deaths which is why it is so important to get vaccinated. Varicella which causes chichenpox remains in our bodies and can later cause shingles. Tuberculosis is another that can remain dormant and never cause any symptoms but may become active when a person is immunocompromised such as if they develop cancer or are started on some drugs which suppress the immune system.

Perhaps this is the case in people who are testing positive for COVID but who never develop symptoms.

I write about this, because COVID seems to be acting like other viruses do which may allow science to figure out how to treat it. There are "patterns" but the viruses and the body are very complicated.

Until an effective and safe vaccine is available, wear a mask, wash your hands and stay as much as possible away from other people.

I feel "better" these days when I have to go grocery shopping because masks are now mandatory, yet I still see people wearing them around their necks once they are in the store...they just refuse to get it.

OP, let us know how you are doing ok?
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« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 05:52:43 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#27: July 22, 2020, 06:32:15 AM
I am thinking about other infectious diseases that sometimes linger, mononucleosis comes to mind as one that can take several weeks before the person feels normal. Yet in others, it clears more quickly. Each person's body responds differently, not only to COVID.

I am thinking Lymes Disease which always stays in  your body,
or herpes, same thing, those can be triggered by something happening.
I believe its chickenpox that can give you shingles.

So its not exactly any different with this disease and  I am lucky that my symptoms are actually mild,
just not going away.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#28: July 22, 2020, 07:29:52 AM
I am thinking Lymes Disease which always stays in  your body,
or herpes, same thing, those can be triggered by something happening.
I believe its chickenpox that can give you shingles.

So its not exactly any different with this disease and  I am lucky that my symptoms are actually mild,
just not going away.

I am so sorry it is lingering, and it can't be pleasant. Is your medical team giving you any plans, ideas, approaches on what they are going to do to resolve?
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#29: July 22, 2020, 07:31:13 AM
I am so sorry it is lingering, and it can't be pleasant. Is your medical team giving you any plans, ideas, approaches on what they are going to do to resolve?

NO - they give me - The gift of TIME as a cure.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#30: July 22, 2020, 08:53:57 AM
I am so sorry it is lingering, and it can't be pleasant. Is your medical team giving you any plans, ideas, approaches on what they are going to do to resolve?

NO - they give me - The gift of TIME as a cure.


Aaaarrrrggggg! Hopefully as we learn more and more they will offer SOMETHING concrete rather than wait and see.

edit: I am sure you are already very well aware of a lot of this because you are unfortunately living it, but others may find this illuminating.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/06/covid-19-coronavirus-longterm-symptoms-months/612679/
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« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 08:56:52 AM by marvin4242 »

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#31: July 22, 2020, 09:26:40 AM
Yes - I joined the facebook group mentioned in the article about 2-3 weeks ago.

It does help to talk to many people going through this.

The group has just under 12k members in a very short time.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#32: July 22, 2020, 10:09:37 AM
I am so sorry it is lingering, and it can't be pleasant. Is your medical team giving you any plans, ideas, approaches on what they are going to do to resolve?

NO - they give me - The gift of TIME as a cure.
Sadly, when Whooping Cough (pertussis) came back around several years back and they discovered the vaccines we had as children didn't  last forever and I ended up with it, TIME was the only answer unless the Whooping cough caused another side effect (infection, bronchitis, athsma, etc) The hard part was drawing that line where it was no longer Whooping Cough, but now the results of the Whooping Cough that was the problem. I coughed for months, but the last two months were not Whooping Cough. It was bronchitis from the leftover inflammation, according to the four doctors I saw.

I would venture Covid might be similar. Your body still has to heal from any damage done, even though what caused the damage is gone.

Take care, OP.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#33: July 22, 2020, 10:11:25 AM
Many years ago i suffered from an auto-immune disorder with lots of odd symptoms that the doctors never really pinned down to a diagnosis. It took me a few years, bit by bit, to recover. Someone introduced me to the Spoons Theory....https://www.healthline.com/health/spoon-theory-chronic-illness-explained-like-never-before#1.....which I found incredibly useful both as a way to manage my own limited bucket and to explain it to others.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#34: July 22, 2020, 07:30:30 PM
Here is a great resource that tracks all the vaccines under development and where they are in the process. The Oxford vaccine (UK) and the Wuhan Institute (China) are the furthest along in their process. Hopefully if either proves effective they will be shared with everyone.

https://www.covid-19vaccinetracker.org
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#35: July 25, 2020, 04:09:39 AM
Another interesting find, researchers have identified a defect in a gene that seems to be one cause of why some young people are severely effected by Covid. The gene seems to impact the ability of the immune system to identify and fight the virus. This may lead to treatment options. Also gives insight into why a minority of younger people are more at risk.

This kind of work is possible because of our advances in gene sequencing.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768926
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#36: July 25, 2020, 07:22:33 AM
I like this chart from the Canadian Government re assessing one's risk depending upon an activity. It's not anything new but I think "awareness" continues to be important as we wait for a vaccine.

Lately, people have invited me to attend a few "gatherings", outdoors (for the only time I go indoors is to the grocery store or medical apts) but  although it all sounds good and safe, I know that it is hard to remain distant from people when you are in a group.

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/phac-aspc/documents/services/publications/diseases-conditions/covid-19-going-out-safely/cov19-gt-eng.pdf

I also found this article thought provoking, sometimes we think, oh just this one time won't make a difference.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/masks-stop-coronavirus-getting-aids-showed-me-stupidity-not-wearing-ncna1234878

My goal, stay "protected" as much as possible until a vaccine is available.

I also though Dr Fauci's responses worth considering. He would not at this time fly or eat indoors at a restaurant. he acknowledges that at age 79, he is in a high risk category.....and asks younger folks not to gather together in larger groups/parties/bars etc.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#37: July 29, 2020, 06:14:28 AM
Thanks xyzcf both great articles. Really liked the risk chart. I for one avoid most medium risk activities although I’m not in high risk group.

Here is one that is a good analysis of where the US is, some information about what approaches are used based on how widespread the virus is. And overall a good read on how the US has failed badly, where we are and how public health experts view all of this. Long read but worthwhile.

One paragraph in particular gave me hope:

“Images of Americans disregarding social distancing requirements have become a daily news staple. But the pictures are deceptive: Americans are more accepting of social distancing than the media sometimes portrays, said Beth Redbird, a Northwestern University sociologist who since March has conducted regular surveys of 8,000 adults about the impact of the virus.

“About 70 percent of Americans report using all forms of it,” she said. “And when we give them adjective choices, they describe people who won’t distance as mean, selfish or unintelligent, not as generous, open-minded or patriotic.”“


Where I live mask compliance is very high, but I only have to go 30 miles to am adjacent state where more than 1/2 the people don’t wear masks in stores and openly defy guidelines as a statement.

A Viral Epidemic Splintering Into Deadly Pieces
There’s not just one coronavirus outbreak in the United States. Now there are many, each requiring its own mix of solutions.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/29/health/coronavirus-future-america.html
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#38: July 29, 2020, 07:33:38 AM
OP: Its quite long I will try to hit the highlights.

"Once again, the coronavirus is ascendant. As infections mount across the country, it is dawning on Americans that the epidemic is now unstoppable, and that no corner of the nation will be left untouched."

"Each state, each city has its own crisis driven by its own risk factors: vacation crowds in one, bars reopened too soon in another, a revolt against masks in a third.

“We are in a worse place than we were in March,” when the virus coursed through New York, said Dr. Leana S. Wen, a former Baltimore health commissioner. “Back then we had one epicenter. Now we have lots.”"

"In most states, contact tracing is now moot — there are simply too many cases to track. "

"Overall, the scientists conveyed a pervasive sense of sadness and exhaustion. Where once there was defiance, and then a growing sense of dread, now there seems to be sorrow and frustration, a feeling that so many funerals never had to happen and that nothing is going well. The United States is a wounded giant, while much of Europe, which was hit first, is recovering and reopening — although not to us."

"Most of the virus’s victims are elderly, but it has not spared young adults, especially those with obesity, high blood pressure or diabetes. Adults aged 18 to 49 now account for more hospitalized cases than people aged 50 to 64 or those 65 and older.

Children are usually not harmed by the virus, although clinicians were dismayed to discover a few who were struck by a rare but dangerous inflammatory version. Young children appear to transmit the virus less often than teenagers, which may affect how schools can be opened.

Among adults, a very different picture has emerged. Growing evidence suggests that perhaps 10 percent of the infected account for 80 percent of new transmissions. Unpredictable superspreading events in nursing homes, meatpacking plants, churches, prisons and bars are major drivers of the epidemic."

"Some experts, like Michael T. Osterholm, the director of the University of Minnesota’s Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, argue that only a nationwide lockdown can completely contain the virus now. Other researchers think that is politically impossible, but emphasize that localities must be free to act quickly and enforce strong measures with support from their state capitols.

Danielle Allen, the director of Harvard University’s Edmond J. Safra Center for Ethics, which has issued pandemic response plans, said that finding less than one case per 100,000 people means a community should continue testing, contact tracing and isolating cases — with financial support for those who need it.

The second-largest teachers’ union in the U.S. said it would support members who strike if schools don’t take steps to reopen safely.
A new U.S. federal report urged 21 “red zone” states to impose more restrictions.
The number of known infections among U.S. state prison inmates and officers has surged by 45 percent since July 1, to more than 80,000.
Up to 25 cases per 100,000 requires greater restrictions, like closing bars and limiting gatherings. Above that number, authorities should issue stay-at-home orders, she said."

"Testing must be free in places where people are poor or uninsured, such as public housing projects, Native American reservations and churches and grocery stores in impoverished neighborhoods.

None of this will be possible unless the nation’s capacity for testing, a continuing disaster, is greatly expanded. By the end of summer, the administration hopes to start using “pooling,” in which tests are combined in batches to speed up the process."

Sorry I tried but this is highlights just from the first 1/3. I think there is a certain number of free reads per month with NYT.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#39: July 29, 2020, 07:37:36 AM
A Viral Epidemic Splintering Into Deadly Pieces
There’s not just one coronavirus outbreak in the United States. Now there are many, each requiring its own mix of solutions.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/29/health/coronavirus-future-america.html

Thanks xyzcf for sending me the article.
It was good but the headline kind of misled me,
I thought they were saying their was actually different versions of the virus going around,
like a mutated thing.
But that is not what they were saying.


Edit - thanks Marvin for that.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#40: July 29, 2020, 07:42:03 AM
I thought the same thing, OP.

Thank you Marvin, very helpful.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#41: July 29, 2020, 08:30:49 AM
OP: sorry I didn't realize I could attach a PDF in PM here, my bad!
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#42: August 01, 2020, 04:50:22 AM
An interesting study in a camp In Georgia where 2/3 of the students and staff tested positive after reopening. Median age of kids was 12, which may indicate even younger kids can transmit the virus even if they are not getting sick. There are caveats as this is one location in Georgia where the virus was already spiking, and the data is incomplete in that they did not have full tracing and did not have full data tracking how well social distancing and mask rules were adhered to. Still points to caution about reopening schools, specially in areas where the virus is already spiking.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/31/georgia-children-covid-outbreak/
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#43: August 01, 2020, 05:59:49 AM
Thanks for the article marvin.

I chatted on my deck yesterday with a 69 year old substitute teacher who "believes" that Trump is right about opening the schools because "children don't transmit the virus" and don't really get "sick" from it...tell that to parents of children who have died from COVID or teachers who have contracted the disease.

She feels strongly that children need to go back to school for "socialization" and "mental health issues" and I mentioned that there is an economic reason as well, parents can't work if they don't have "daycare".

Are those reasons enough to risk the lives of students and staff?

A vaccine will be available. To me, that is the only sane way to reopen.

I told her, if my daughter was school age, I would not be sending her to school.

What totally freaks me out, this women is 69 years old and she is going to go back to working as a substitute teacher.

What is amazing to me, is the lack of "belief" in what science is telling us and the acceptance of information from someone who has promoted information that is false several times.....this denial of new information which is continuously being generated from the data and will continue to change as more is found out, this disregarding new information about a virus that is still a mystery in some ways as to how it causes disease, is what is causing the dangerously high number of cases in the US.

It doe not have to be this way.  :'(
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#44: August 01, 2020, 06:10:48 AM
It does really confound me too. Generally I do not understand why people reject expertise, information and hard earned knowledge and simply embrace random and unsubstantiated beliefs when dealing with public health or medicine. What humanity has learned and where we are now, even compared to 20 years ago, is simply mind boggling. We are sequencing genes of a new virus, we have developed novel mRNA vaccines and have inserted the spike protein into other agents to create vaccines, we can do large scale controlled studies and have rapidly discovered SO MUCH about this new virus (although it has sadly cost a lot of lives and lot of disruption).

But people still choose to reject all this and either listen to completely unqualified people spouting nonsense (whether its leaders, talk show hosts, or doctors who think diseases are caused by demons, a throwback to what century exactly?). And this at the risk to their own well being (like the substitute teacher) or to risk to others (like young people who think because they or ok its just fine to get sick or people who don't actually understand what "freedoms" the constitution is referring to). Sad part is if people simply listened to experts, followed guidelines, and used facts and science this disease would be under control and we all would have resumed a great deal of our lives, including resuming most economic activity. But instead by ignoring this we are simply making everything so much worse. Compare Germany to US and it tells you everything you need to know.

In the age of knowledge, reason, information and technology people choose to embrace the dark ages.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#45: August 01, 2020, 06:23:03 AM
I hear you but on the flip side I personally know quite a few people that have committed suicide from being quarantined.

So what about them?
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#46: August 01, 2020, 06:32:25 AM
I hear you but on the flip side I personally know quite a few people that have committed suicide from being quarantined.

So what about them?

That is a tragedy, and is part of the problem. Mental health, financial well being, kids socializing. These are all important. I am in no way dismissing that. But I guess I don't understand how it is the "flip side." It is the same to me. If people followed expert advised, guidelines and we had a coordinated response these problems would also be solved. People in Europe already have more resumption of activity, I know elder people in UK who are now meeting in open spaces in gardens and are no longer as isolated. Even in Italy which started with a badly handled response and lot of deaths they are actually managing to resume some normalcy while maintaining control over the disease.

We are actually making these problems worse by ignoring knowledge and facts.

Am I missing your point?
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 06:34:23 AM by marvin4242 »

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#47: August 01, 2020, 06:36:58 AM
Quote
I hear you but on the flip side I personally know quite a few people that have committed suicide from being quarantined.

I would like to know statistically what "quite a few people" is compared to the 150,000 plus deaths from COVID.

The difference?

Someone who commits suicide, takes their own life. It is a decision. They are not killing someone else by transmitting the virus.

I am not at all saying that the mental health consequences are not enormous..they are. Personally, I went for 5 therapy sessions because of difficulties I was facing from being totally alone...$165.00 per session but money well spent.

How many people can afford that? It's not covered by my insurance.

How many people have a therapist they can call up and say "I need help"?

How many people recognize or are willing to obtain help from a mental health provider?

The argument that we need to reopen because several people are committing suicide is not helpful.

There will be more suicides after the recents cuts in unemployment benefits.

I wonder what the suicide rates are in countries that provide social programs for all their people are compared to the US?

I wonder what the suicide rates are for people with COVID who are experiencing months of symptoms with no end in sight?
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 06:39:32 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#48: August 01, 2020, 07:05:28 AM
From American Psychological Association on Covid 19 and suicide:

“But it will be a while before COVID-19’s actual impact on the nation’s suicide rate is known, says psychologist Jill Harkavy-Friedman, PhD, vice president of research at the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. “We’re two years away from having data,” she says. And it’s not a given that the pandemic will cause suicide rates to increase, emphasizes Harkavy-Friedman, who is also an associate professor of clinical psychology, in psychiatry, at Columbia University.
“One event can bring stress, but it’s not going to make someone suicidal out of the blue,” she says, explaining that it is typically a combination of biological, psychological, environmental and other factors that renders people vulnerable to suicide.”

To point at quarantine as the sole reason for suicide is unhelpful and, I am sorry to say, a bit simplistic.

The sooner people listen to sensible advices of the experts which are based on good quality research (not anecdotes and conspiracy theories), the sooner we should be able to resume more or less normal life.   That would help the emotionally vulnerable who may be at risk for self harming.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#50: August 01, 2020, 11:16:12 AM
(like young people who think because they or ok its just fine to get sick or people who don't actually understand what "freedoms" the constitution is referring to).
The things most people remember from the Declaration of Independence also shape their thoughts on freedom. Who really understands what freedom "means" in the context of documents? Like everything, words are open to interpretation.

A few parts from the Declaration of Independence that are pretty broad, but people hold onto:
"that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
 
"organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." 

"and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. "

Again, I adhere to social distancing as a consideration to others. If the door sign says "No shirt, no shoes no enter", thems the rules for that store. Same for mask. The people who walk in without a mask don't care about anyone else except their own selfish entitled selves. MLCERS in the making or actuality. Trying to make sense of it is , as UM always says, like trying to taste green with your elbow. If anyone should understand we don't get to control what other people do, it's people who had to deal with an MLCER.  So I rarely go out. If I do, I am aware of who is around me and if they are following social distancing recommendations.  If they aren't,  I avoid them or leave. As is my right. The ones I feel bad for are the people who are working and can't leave, so their choice is confrontation or submittal. In theory, though, they have the right to get another job or file a complaint that they don't feel safe at their job.

Freedom has a lot of layers and meanings to different people. I may not understand someone else's point of view, but I don't get to control it, so it's on me to protect myself, and my loved ones if I can and if I can't  for them to protect themselves.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#51: August 01, 2020, 11:34:05 AM
Offroad: all good points. And we have a lot of precedent and analysis and define the bounds of freedom. For example I am not allowed to walk down the street naked, although technically it wont “hurt” anyone. I am not allowed to urinate or defecate in public for public health reasons, as it will potentially hurt others. So the entire mask argument for those who claim freedom has no legal, ethical nor social basis. It is closes to conspiracy theory thinking. If we had said you are no longer allowed to protest to redress your grievances we know these rights are spelled out and they are understood. But even then we are allowed to place limits and restrictions on them for safety reasons.

So as others have said (and I get the sense you agree) its one thing if one chooses for oneself, but its different when it impacts others.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#52: August 02, 2020, 06:36:14 AM
More interesting information, various studies of public transport in Europe shows it may be safer than we think, but assuming riders adhering to guidelines. Most of these studies are in Europe and Tokyo where they have been running aggressive contact tracing after reducing the base infection level, and none of the case clusters have traced back to use of public transport. Obviously we are nowhere near that base level and I have not yet seen any reports of fully functioning contact tracing in any part of the country, as it appears it has to be run at the state level.

“ In countries where the pandemic has ebbed, ridership has rebounded in far greater numbers than in New York City — yet there have been no notable superspreader events linked to mass transit, according to a survey of transportation agencies conducted by The New York Times.

Those findings could be evidence that subways, commuter railways and buses may not be a significant source of transmission, as long as riders wear masks and train cars or buses never become as intensely crowded as they did in pre-pandemic rush hours.”

“ In Paris, public health authorities conducting contact tracing found that none of the 386 infection clusters identified between early May and mid-July were linked to the city’s public transportation.

A study of coronavirus clusters in April and May in Austria did not tie any to public transit. And in Tokyo, where public health authorities have aggressively traced virus clusters, none have been linked to the city’s famously crowded rail lines.”

“ Among the range of urban activities, the experts say, riding the subway is probably riskier than walking outdoors but safer than indoor dining.
The low infection rates on some public transportation systems can be attributed, in part, to measures transit agencies have adopted, including mandating face masks; disinfecting trains and buses; and ramping up service and asking businesses to stagger work hours to reduce rush-hour crowding.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/02/nyregion/nyc-subway-coronavirus-safety.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#54: August 03, 2020, 03:50:43 PM
Hello,

Very interesting comments in regards to suicide and covid. Xyzcf- I agree completely that more people need access to therapy and if we cut the defense budget by 50,000,000,000. We could afford every man, woman, and child an hour of therapy at $150.00 an hour. Since a small amount of people need this we could afford therapy for everyone. That is only a 6.9% cut to the budget and would still leave the US with the largest military budget in the world. Three times over.

Suicide rate has been increasing since 2000. Despite all the connections with phones and the internet, we are actually more disconnected than ever before. This is especially in regards to our young people. Another interesting note is that suicides by middle aged white men is the highest rate in our country. Overall, white males counted for 69.67% of all suicides. These statistics were before covid.

Suicide is separate from covid and was going to increase regardless of covid. So I don't think you can compare the two until after the crisis is past and see if the rate of increase was faster during the time of covid as compared to the rate prior to covid.

I know it is a dark subject  but that is why many of us push counseling for all LBSers as a means to grow and cope with their socioemotional health during the crisis.

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#55: August 03, 2020, 07:28:44 PM
Two new studies seem to point to children under 14 being less susceptible to getting Covid-19, but being almost twice as virulent an agent of spread of the disease. If this holds up then it would really put a brake on any country trying to reopen schools quickly.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/07/31/new-evidence-suggests-young-children-spread-covid-19-more-efficiently-than-adults/#612a8b2019fd

“ The researchers found that although young children had a somewhat lower risk of infection than adults and were less likely to become ill, children age 14 and younger transmit the virus more efficiently to other children and adults than adults themselves. Their risk of transmitting Covid-19 was 22.4 percent—more than twice that of adults aged 30 to 49, whose rate of contagiousness was about 11 percent. “Although childhood contacts were less likely to become cases,” they wrote, “children were more likely to infect household members.””
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#56: August 05, 2020, 06:25:05 AM
Many people are concerned about the safety of a potential COVID vaccine and how quickly it is being made. I found this short video from the CBC helpful in explaining how it is possible to produce a safe vaccine in a shorter period of time than what it would normally take.

How COVID-19 vaccines are being created quickly without sacrificing safety

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1771808835773
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#57: August 05, 2020, 07:57:02 AM
An interesting if not very cheerful article https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02278-5 that seems to suggest the likeliehood that Covid will be part of our lives for quite a few years.

Tbh reading it didn't surprise me. The two big 'killer app' issues that I think we just don't know yet is how long any vaccine immunity might last and how we set up more reliable testing/tracing processes that allow parts of our individual countries to suppress transmission spikes before they get too big to do that without locking down a wider population. Here in the UK, I'm pretty confident that we haven't yet got the ability to do the latter as a matter of course and reading between the political lines, I think our government is being told by those who know better than me that a serious second wave (and potentially a second lockdown) is looking eminently possible in the autumn.

It occurred to me actually, reading the article, that how one reacts to it might not be unlike the most blunt likely scenarios that MLC vets might unfurl for an LBS newbie. We usually don't bc it beats people to their knees when they are already frightened.....they don't want to hear it. I didn't want to hear it either. But truthfully, the pattern suggests that most LBS would be more honestly served by accepting a scenario that says their MLC spouse will almost certainly have at least one ow/om, will trash their joint finances, be impossible to communicate with rationally, be a lousy self-centred parent, that most LBS will end up separated or divorced and will probably not see their spouse start acting like a sane decent adult for at least seven years......so now, what does Standing look like to you and do you want to do that?  ::) Not a nice message is it? Not easy to give or hear. But, based on the patterns we see here, probably statistically the most likely scenario.....

I wonder if the issue is much the same with the virus.
If you knew that most probably we were all going to be living with a series of trial and error virus ups and downs for say the next 3-5 years.....along with the unpredictable ways in which society might adapt to that....would you do anything differently now in how you live your life?
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#58: August 10, 2020, 12:27:06 PM
An interesting study about efficacy of masks, spoilers:

N95, surgical, poly/cotton, and multi layer cotton masks work well, while knitted, bandana, fleece are the worse (with fleece actually being worse than wearing no mask).

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#59: August 10, 2020, 01:09:38 PM
40% of people with coronavirus have no symptoms. Might they be the key to ending the pandemic?

https://www.chron.com/news/article/40-of-people-with-coronavirus-have-no-symptoms-15469295.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Desktop)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

This was reported in The Washington post but I do not have access to it there...what was interesting to me is the possible connection between other vaccines that people had been given and the reduction in infections.

 "Seven types of vaccines given one, two or five years in the past were associated with having a lower rate of infection with the new coronavirus. Two vaccines in particular seemed to show stronger links: People who got a pneumonia vaccine in the recent past appeared to have a 28% reduction in coronavirus risk. Those who got polio vaccines had a 43% reduction in risk."

By chance, I just had a pneumococcal vaccine 2 weeks ago.

There has also been information about BCG vaccine which  also received as a child.

They are discovering more information everyday. The more we can contain the virus and stay safe, science will figure it out so we can get out of this pandemic and back to living.
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« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 01:13:26 PM by xyzcf »
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#60: August 14, 2020, 03:18:13 PM
I just came back from grocery shopping where masks are mandatory but 5 customers had no mask on, several are wearing them below their nose and one man had a child’s cone shaped birthday hat covering his nose..I kid you not! The manager did come on expressing that everyone in the store over the age of 10 had to have a mask and they would gladly provide one if you “forgot”..he stressed that the safety of his staff who have been in the store all day as well as the safety of customers..but people are either too stupid to get it after 6 months or too selfish..I suspect the latter.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#61: August 14, 2020, 03:22:48 PM
Had a Walmart trip this afternoon xyz, and it was my first time out that I've seen some of the "anti-maskers". :( One guy made sure we noticed him, and was wearing some sort of "freedom" shirt. Another was a group of teenage boys on phones who kept purposely squeezing between people to be 'funny'. Disheartening. I saw some of the "under the nose" wearers too, but they seem more clueless than cruel.

The boys really bothered me because they were more privileged kids who have likely been on vacations out of town, and I don't like that near my dad, who has copd, and takes all of the precautions. It's sad how people just don't seem to care.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#62: August 14, 2020, 03:26:05 PM
It's really stressful isn't it? You don't dare say anything because you may put yourself in danger if you do.

Today the announcement was made that Canada has extended the border closing until Sept 21 and I am sure that will continue to be extended so I am not going to be able to go home anytime soon.

It does not have to be like this!
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#63: August 14, 2020, 03:58:48 PM
..but people are either too stupid to get it after 6 months or too selfish..I suspect the latter.

Sadly, I wouldn't be too quick to discount the former. Perhaps we might call them misinformed or ignorant instead of stupid.

It does not have to be like this!

No, it doesn't and it shouldn't be like this. IMO, refusing to follow public health requirements is a form of assault. It potentially puts the people around you in danger. Public health laws also violate people's "rights" by not allowing them to defecate in public but that law doesn't seem to be too controversial.

I wear N95 masks that I recycle after wearing them on EMS calls. I wear a mask to protect the people around me. I wear an N95 mask to protect me from the people around me, especially from those who refuse to wear a mask and those who refuse to wear them correctly.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#64: August 14, 2020, 03:59:24 PM
It is a form of willful ignorance combined with narcissism wrapped around a complete lack of understand of “freedom.”

I am lucky that in my local area they are the exceptions, and that Walmart and many major stores here actually have someone check and not allow those idiots (yes I said it) to come inside.

I even feel bad when my bank forced me to go to branch for something I should have been able to do online, not for me, but for the branch employees. But they were fully enforcing the distance and the masks.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#65: August 14, 2020, 04:08:56 PM
On mask wearing, I am sure no one is very comfortable wearing a mask. I personally find it restricting and irritating. However, I wear a mask for other people, I wear a mask because it is the least I can do, I wear a mask because if I don't, I will be fined, my company will be fined.

There are very good reasons to wear a mask, there is a study that says it reduces the viral load if contaminated, it protects the other person if you have the disease and you are assymptomatic.

Our supermarkets are very strict and most of them test your temperature as you come in, they also insist on wiping down the handles of your shopping cart and dousing your hands with sanitizer!
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#66: August 14, 2020, 07:05:33 PM
Mitzpah, I am pleased to hear that the stores are very strict where you live. I hope that will help to keep you safe. I worry about you down there when I read the news reports.  :)

Marvin, our Walmart also requires masks for entry so a lot of people wear their masks until they get inside, then they either slide them down or remove them. We're very fortunate to be in a rural area where community spread is currently very low.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#67: August 14, 2020, 07:20:22 PM
MBIB: actually here I see very high compliance even inside, and when we have pointed out a few people or staff who don’t comply I almost always get immediate action from managers. At least here most places do take it seriously. I do know the minute I hit PA and went into a store 1/2 the people were not complying on purpose. And this was in a rural area. The low spread rate in rural areas is not holding in areas that are mask resistant. That was only true in the early days where rural areas thought they were somehow ‘immune.” The hotspots are now just as bad in rural areas.

The willingness to comply is very regional.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#68: August 14, 2020, 07:37:04 PM
Hello,

Quote
The willingness to comply is very regional.

That's so sad. I think back to the WWII Generation. They grew up poor in the Great Depression. As my aunt would say, "We didn't know how poor we were because everyone was poor. Then WWII struck. I had one uncle on my mom's side who died for our country. He didn't have to go as he was the only son to carry on the family name. No draft for him, he volunteered. My uncle's brother was stationed on the Philippines when Japan took the island. He stayed behind so MacArthur could leave. He spent the entire war as a POW. Beaten and severely starved. He somehow survived. This generation came back only to invest their tax dollars to build colleges for their kids. While the men fought, the ladies stayed and worked the factories. They went without meat and rationed gas.

Now we can't even unite to put on a face covering to save our own.

I really miss the Great Generation.

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#69: August 14, 2020, 07:59:53 PM
Quote
Now we can't even unite to put on a face covering to save our own.

I don't understand why it's so hard...you don't have to wear a mask at home or outside but when you step inside a public place it is the law. It stresses me out so much to go buy groceries but I have tried ordering and don't get the things I need.

Our King Sooper's is not cleaning the shopping carts anymore. There are wipes you can use. I bring my own disinfectant spray.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#70: August 15, 2020, 05:25:24 AM
A long but great read on various testing methods, strengths and shortcoming, why test results are taking so long in the US, how having tests that are so delayed are worthless and information about new tests on the horizon that can be run at home. Also it discusses various pooling and group testing strategies that if deployed would allow daily testing at nursing home for staff and testing at classroom level allowing a class to be sent home on a positive as a group while maintaining privacy.

My personal conclusions: first the US has failed because there has been no centralized strategy. As article explains free market is not capable of solving these kinds of challenges as cost is too high without a centralized approach. Second is how much innovation and smarts is being applied in the US at the research and corporate level, but it is again hampered by a intelligent central approach (for example reducing required accuracy rates for rapid tests). Third is there are a lot of testing approaches that are scaling up that can maybe reverse our biggest error: blinding ourselves by not supporting then intentionally hampering testing. These solutions are varied and can be run at medical facilities, or even workplaces daily. If we had this capability we could resume a much more normal life while effectively containing the virus.

I guess my takeaway is things are about to improve over the next six months due to testing and vaccines, in spite of our national level failures. It simply blows my mind on why we think that failing to rise to this challenge was ok. One example: declaring a war time level emergency effort would have eliminated all the reagent shortages as there are resources to make them but no supply chains. So private companies were unable or unwilling to take that on without a national declaration.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/how-to-test-every-american-for-covid-19-every-day/615217/?utm_source=digg
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#71: August 15, 2020, 06:17:50 AM
Quote
first the US has failed because there has been no centralized strategy

I hear many people say "I don't want the government "controlling" my health care and then the government taking away the collection of data from CDC and transferring it to the White House:

“Historically, C.D.C. has been the place where public health data has been sent, and this raises questions about not just access for researchers but access for reporters, access for the public to try to better understand what is happening with the outbreak," said Jen Kates, the director of global health and H.I.V. policy with the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/trump-cdc-coronavirus.html

The CDC is the gold standard worldwide for infectious diseases. They have the expertise ....and are consulted worldwide for their assistance in controlling infectious diseases.

For me, this was purely a political move and I suspect a way to mislead the public of the gravity of the situation by "hiding" the numbers.

I sit here thinking about the number of people who have died needlessly and continue to die needlessly, and watch as other countries successfully implement tried and true public health measures to contain the virus.

The governor of Colorado has negotiated with a private lab and set up testing facilities so that results are available in 48 hours..I spoke to some nursing colleagues yesterday in Canada, test results there are available in 24 hours. In the US, people are waiting 14 days and more....

Canada does have a centralized system to deal with issues relating to public health and it works. It worked during SARS and it is working now. The leaders accept what the experts advise, and the whole country is on one page and it works.
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 06:24:18 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

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https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#72: August 15, 2020, 08:10:48 AM
I have wondered about the variance in testing results and how long it takes.  My son got a test through Kaiser and had the results in less than 24 hours.  If he had gone to one of the "protest" testing sites (he had gone to a protest),  it would have taken a few days.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#73: August 15, 2020, 08:28:37 AM
I know a few people who got tested in 2 different states (MN and Idaho) and got the results within 2/3 days.

Why is there such a difference between the states?  Funding??  Do some states have to send the tests out?
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#74: August 15, 2020, 09:51:46 AM
First because there is no federal response it is state by state, how much money, how seriously testing is taken. In fact sone stats have slowed down testing in purpose after the Presidents urging in order to make the numbers look better. Obviously this has tragic public health consequences and is purely political. It horrifies public health officials.

For example Maryland bought tons of tests in the early days from South Korea and used them because of lack of Federal response. Some states are cutting desks for testing, but we have created a nightmare scenario where states are competing with each other. We are doing this so badly.

As for vaccines two are in phase 3 and may be ready in 2-3 months. Early results are positive. Then it has to be mass produced and distributed. Here it will depend on each health care provider while in countries with national health there will be one single source and provided instantly for free.

 
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#76: August 18, 2020, 03:51:56 PM
Here, we must wear masks in the supermarkets. It's been like this since March. They won't let us in if we don't wear one. They will make us leave if we don't comply. When Covid rules came into place, the police enforced it by checking people, stopping cars, and by handing out stiff fines. It's a nuisance, it's a drag, but it works. At least that's how we feel about it.

And just the other day, discos were closed again, and masks must be worn in public again (had been stopped a couple of months ago) from 6pm to 6 am. This is because the contagion numbers have risen lately although deaths have not. We don't like it since as others have said, the masks are hot and itchy but they seem to work. In fact here, there are no covid clusters connected to public transport where you can not get on without a mask. That really helped us understand how effective this annoying method is.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#77: August 18, 2020, 04:58:02 PM
Good News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5Z6wdu1eI0

for herd immunity.

Excellent news and easy to understand!
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#78: August 19, 2020, 03:31:19 PM
Thanks for posting that video, OP. Definitely worth the watch.  I thought he did such a good job explaining the body's immune response in an easy-to-understand way.  And of course, the studies he referenced also give such hope.  I wish there was more information like this circulating in mainstream media.

How are you feeling, OP?  Are you still dealing with lasting effects from the illness?
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« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 03:34:40 PM by trusting »

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#79: August 19, 2020, 03:39:45 PM
Quote
I wish there was more information like this circulating in mainstream media.

I do think that information is out there, especially if you look at different news sources. I liked the video and the three studies all are saying the same thing, but Dr. Campbell does say that the studies have not been peer reviewed yet.

I am not surprised that there is a good immune response, that is true for many other infectious diseases.It does look good that a vaccine will also give a good immune response...yet the problem I'm afraid is going to be getting people to get the vaccine.

We have come a long way in understanding how to prevent transmission and decrease the spread of the virus as well as how to treat it. I would really like to see  better testing and contract tracing.....the numbers in Colorado have been pretty stable, 3 down to 2.71 since Aug 6 but in reality, this is a very short period of time and many things are still operating with limited numbers of people.

We do see that when social distancing measures are relaxed, that the numbers shoot up pretty quickly but that will also get better as more people develop immunity to it.

Here's more from The Chicago Tribune:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-nw-nyt-covid-immunity-mild-infections-20200817-hvv4tiiu5feklclx47bc74el34-story.html?fbclid=IwAR3RumTzu6ladWzJB9-smBhYXU0DkKezvWuDjuW8vDsNUZv1N_nrPEfIzM0
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« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 03:50:40 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#80: August 19, 2020, 05:32:24 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/07/health/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-covid-19-survivors-wellness/?hpt=ob_blogfooterold

This talks about the long term effects for some who become infected with COVID. It suggests that it could be as high as 35% of people will go on to have some kind of chronic health issue.

I see people relaxing their protective measures. This has gone on for so long and we are tired by all the restrictions this has on our lives.

Please keep in mind that there is still a great deal that is not known about COVID even as science pushes forward with some good news as well.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#81: August 20, 2020, 07:00:42 AM
Thanks for posting that video, OP. Definitely worth the watch.  I thought he did such a good job explaining the body's immune response in an easy-to-understand way.  And of course, the studies he referenced also give such hope.  I wish there was more information like this circulating in mainstream media.

How are you feeling, OP?  Are you still dealing with lasting effects from the illness?
I am pretty much fully recovered but my girl friend still has lasting effects.

She has covid-brain, and just lost her job yesterday, from the hospital that gave her covid.
We keep hoping that she will fully recover and I am still hopeful that she will get full brain function back.

It is only for maybe a minute at a time (for maybe 4-5 times a day)  but who would want a nurse to be taking care of you that couldn't think straight.

Thanks for asking hope all is well with you.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#82: August 20, 2020, 01:45:54 PM
Glad to hear you are feeling better, OP, bjtbsorry to hear that your girlfriend is still struggling.
What is 'Covid brain'? Like chemo brain? Problems with attention, memory etc?
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#83: August 20, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
Glad to hear you are feeling better, OP, bjtbsorry to hear that your girlfriend is still struggling.
What is 'Covid brain'? Like chemo brain? Problems with attention, memory etc?

Brain short circuits for periods of time.
Inability to think and for her do simple math (8x7) or think straight like early dementia or alzheimers.
It usually only lasts a few minutes but is quite frightening.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#84: August 21, 2020, 12:43:58 AM
Ah I see.....yes, I can imagine it is frightening and rather disheartening for her. Seems pretty common with a lot of auto-immune type illnesses, no idea why. When I experienced something similar years ago, I found the 'spoons theory' helpful and became a bit of a detective so I could learn if there was a pattern to it e.g. When I was physically tired or certain types of activities or time of day, numbers were a problem for me too, so I could build some alternative ways of doing things. Often with chronic illnesses we become our own best medics, I think, don't we? But I am so sorry and I hope that she starts to see progress soon.
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Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#85: August 21, 2020, 01:10:29 AM
Sorry to hear about your girlfriend, OP, and that she lost her job on top of it. How devastating. I hope that even if slowly, she recovers completely.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#86: September 13, 2020, 05:55:37 AM
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#87: September 13, 2020, 06:15:03 AM
Interesting article xyzcf - Thanks for sharing.
To me, it makes sense.
Our rules in the US haven't "lightened up" as much as in the UK when it comes to mask wearing. 
Still required just about everywhere except the dentist and dine-in.

Everyone stay safe!  Wear your masks!

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#88: September 13, 2020, 06:27:05 AM
Thanks xyzcf interesting indeed if it holds up.

Seahorse I’m a little confused. Rules in UK have not been relaxed re face masks. In US it ranges from good to non existent depending on where you are, while in UK the rules are consistent with randomized test tracking and regional lockdowns. While in US we are near blind in widespread randomized testing and the quality of our scattershot data is considered poor by researchers as we have no standards across various sources, nor any consistency.

In fact there is escalating fines for violating rules starting at 100 pounds and doubling per repeat to a max of 3200 pounds, a significant disincentive. In US even in areas where mask rules exist there are no fines nor consequences and no legal enforcement. It’s left purely to business owners and workers. Wegmans, a well known local grocery store even confirmed to me that if a customer wears no mask they can shop. When I asked what if I take my mask right now they said that is fine.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#89: September 13, 2020, 08:58:12 AM
Marvin -
I'm sorry that I was confusing in what I was trying to say.

In the US we're SUPPOSED to be social distancing, wearing masks everywhere except the dentist and when dining in, from what I have experienced in a few different states.  I didn't say that we were enforcing it, and again I have asked and was told that they have a "hands off" policy and are not allowed to ask a person to wear a mask, even though they have a sign stating at the entrance that it is a state law.  It's very frustrating.

I said what I said because the article states that masks (in UK) are not required to be worn:

Visitors to cinemas, eat-in restaurants, concert halls, museums, heritage sites, theatres, hairdressers, gyms, leisure centres, dentists and opticians, pubs and restaurants are not be required to wear face masks.

So, it appears that the US is holding stricter criteria - that doesn't necessarily mean that the criteria is being followed.

Does that make sense?

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#90: September 13, 2020, 09:19:43 AM
Yes thank you, makes perfect sense!
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#91: September 13, 2020, 03:00:40 PM
So a not so surprising study results but data is always better than opinion and guesses. I for one have no idea why these basic public health ideas and measure are in any way controversial.

“ COVID-19 Study Links Strict Social Distancing to Much Lower Chance of Infection”

https://healthcnd.com/covid-19-study-links-strict-social-distancing-to-much-lower-chance-of-infection/
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#92: September 15, 2020, 05:54:34 AM
Found this interesting plot of data comparing mortality from flu and pneumonia vs Covid-19. The spike of pneumonia that parallels Covid-19 is probably due to the fact that it is a common complication. So this is educational for those who do not believe this pandemic is more serious than a seasonal flu. Part of how much worse this is in the US has been because of our uncoordinated and ineffective response in containment, but it still shows that Covid is real issue and not a made up idea.

https://i.redd.it/yjvlz964ctl51.png

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#93: September 15, 2020, 07:04:13 AM
I am still dealing with post covid symptoms for my hero nurse.

She got covid on April 15 and is long over the worst of the symptoms but still can not think straight and has now lost her nursing job in the ER.

So we have found out that many people do not fully recover from this disease.

I am not sure that anything is happening to fix this situation and I wonder if their will be a cure.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#94: September 15, 2020, 07:13:11 AM
OP: I really hope and believe there will be. There are more and more reports of long term effects, more and more understanding of them. And as we find these out treatments will become available. I hope its a case of so much being learned so fast, and that most of the initial focus was on the acute mortality. Now the focus has shifted more to the long term treatments.

I know a couple of other people who are still struggling with recurring or long term effects from Covid. I believe even some of the data from the vaccine trials may give information about how and why some side effects linger. And this should also help with longer term treatments.

This virus really seems to trigger the immune system in ways that are more challenging that other ones. Specially the common cold and flu. Yet another reason for everyone to take this seriously, and to follow guidelines and science.

But I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for you and people in the same boat.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#95: September 15, 2020, 07:20:06 AM
I hope this makes for useful reading, OP. https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2020/07/24/open-letter-covid-19-long-hauler-me-cfs/

As someone who years ago suffered a post-viral arthritis illness followed by ME symptoms, I found that most doctors were pretty rubbish bc the symptoms did not seem to fit their diagnostic framework or the bit of the body that was their specialism. So I needed to be my own advocate and build my own recovery plan. In my case, I think it took about three years of gradual improvement....yoga and fish oil and sleeping like a cat little and often lol were my secret powers...before I felt normal again. So there is hope and small pockets of post-covid support/research, but I am very sorry that your lady friend is suffering this.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#96: September 15, 2020, 08:10:02 AM
Thank you both - yes a good article.


Quote
One bright spot is the Mount Sinai Health System in New York City, which has opened a Center for Post-Covid Care.
The center is monitoring roughly 1,000 Covid-19 patients with initially mild to moderate cases.

She is already in this group and I hope it can do something but so far no.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#97: September 16, 2020, 04:27:28 PM
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map

John Hopkins COVID 19 United States cases by county. You can zoom into different areas and see where the cases are higher than other states. Good tool .
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#98: September 18, 2020, 12:55:26 AM
Old Pilot: saw this in The Guardian this morning, there is no direct link, but more evidence that there is a lot of ongoing work now on the lingering effects of Covid-19. I am pretty sure this will not be a “forgotten” issue by any means.
——
More than half of patients and staff with Covid-19 monitored by an Irish hospital suffered persistent fatigue in the aftermath of the initial disease, according to a new study Friday highlighting the “significant burden” of lingering symptoms, AFP reports.

“Whilst the presenting features of SARS-CoV-2 infection have been well-characterised, the medium- and long-term consequences of infection remain unexplored,” said Liam Townsend, of St James’s Hospital and Trinity Translational Medicine Institute at Trinity College Dublin.

The study, which tracked 128 participants at St James’s Hospital, found that 52 percent reported persistent fatigue when they were assessed an average of 10 weeks after “clinical recovery” from infection, regardless of how serious their initial infection was.

The preliminary study, which has not yet been peer reviewed, included 71 people who had been admitted to hospital and 57 employees of the hospital who had mild illness. The average age was 50 and all participants had tested positive for Covid-19.

Researchers looked at a variety of potential factors, including the severity of the initial illness and pre-existing conditions, including depression.

They found that it made no difference whether a patient had been hospitalised or not. However, they did find that women, despite making up just over half of the participants (54%), accounted for two-thirds of those with persistent fatigue (67%).

Those with a previous history of anxiety or depression were also found to be more likely to have fatigue.

The authors said the findings showed that more work was needed to assess the impact of Covid-19 on patients in the longer term.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#99: September 18, 2020, 06:14:10 AM
Dr Abdu Sharkaway


EXCELLENT article full of great reviews of evidence for different modes of Covid-19 transmission.
Instead of buying more Lysol, invest in an air purifier, comfortable 2-ply cotton masks and a fire pit or outer heater to socialize safely this winter.



https://elemental.medium.com/the-most-likely-way-youll-get-infected-with-covid-19-30430384e5a5
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#100: September 18, 2020, 06:45:57 AM
Old Pilot: saw this in The Guardian this morning, there is no direct link, but more evidence that there is a lot of ongoing work now on the lingering effects of Covid-19. I am pretty sure this will not be a “forgotten” issue by any means.
——
More than half of patients and staff with Covid-19 monitored by an Irish hospital suffered persistent fatigue in the aftermath of the initial disease, according to a new study Friday highlighting the “significant burden” of lingering symptoms, AFP reports.

“Whilst the presenting features of SARS-CoV-2 infection have been well-characterised, the medium- and long-term consequences of infection remain unexplored,” said Liam Townsend, of St James’s Hospital and Trinity Translational Medicine Institute at Trinity College Dublin.

The study, which tracked 128 participants at St James’s Hospital, found that 52 percent reported persistent fatigue when they were assessed an average of 10 weeks after “clinical recovery” from infection, regardless of how serious their initial infection was.

The preliminary study, which has not yet been peer reviewed, included 71 people who had been admitted to hospital and 57 employees of the hospital who had mild illness. The average age was 50 and all participants had tested positive for Covid-19.

Researchers looked at a variety of potential factors, including the severity of the initial illness and pre-existing conditions, including depression.

They found that it made no difference whether a patient had been hospitalised or not. However, they did find that women, despite making up just over half of the participants (54%), accounted for two-thirds of those with persistent fatigue (67%).

Those with a previous history of anxiety or depression were also found to be more likely to have fatigue.

The authors said the findings showed that more work was needed to assess the impact of Covid-19 on patients in the longer term.

Thanks



I just took this survey for people that have had covid.

Here is a link to the survey: https://uclcovid19.fra1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_b7QROw98zfEuf1b?unique_id=790ce0d769e5865733fe7b19486f27fd
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#101: September 18, 2020, 07:58:34 AM
Great article xyz. One of the best I've read. I reposted it on FB. I hope my family and friends will read it. IMO, the most effective protection against this virus isn't face masks, vaccines, or social distancing. While those are all indisuptably important, I think the most effective protection is having access to high quality, accurate, trustworthy sources of information. Once you have that, everything else falls into place.
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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#102: September 18, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#103: September 18, 2020, 11:42:24 AM
Thanks xyzcf!   :)
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#104: September 18, 2020, 03:49:24 PM
Here is a cool bit of research, a safe UVlight can be used to essentially create disinfection fields without harming people.

Study shows first proof that a safer UV light effectively kills virus causing COVID-19

https://www.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/en/news/60119

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Re: COVID-19, Coronavirus. Its real, stay safe! #4
#105: September 20, 2020, 07:47:24 AM
A general good "state of the nation" on what is current state of knowledge about the virus. Nothing earth shattering but a good catch up read:

"What we actually know about Covid-19"

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/sep/16/what-we-actually-know-about-covid-19

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