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C
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My Story Need advice
OP: August 01, 2020, 10:02:49 AM
Hai everybody,
(Sorry for my English)
I am a newby on this forum.
My H BD was end of january 2020. So far 6 tough and go’s/short return attemps. He has an affair for a year now. Today he wanted to meet me to talk about investing in our relationship again. Says the affair is over but that they are stil having contact and that she has become a ‘friend’. I told him that I do not accept her as his ‘friend’ when we are working on our relationship and asked ( okay told)him to break contact with her as a precondition for me to be willing to work on our relationship. The divorse is pending ( he has stopped it being send to court) and said  that he in fact is willing to break contact with her when we are working in our relationship.

The meeting went well; I was calm, but afterwards I got very upset about some things he had done. I asked him for proof of his good Will and to send the message to break contact with his OW in my presence  😬. He was hestitant, but he started writing and then showed me a very unclear message to his OW that ended with X.. At that point I couldn’t handlle it anymore.. I yelled at him and was very angry... told him I wanted him our of my life ( but revoked that a few minutes later....) and walked away. My reaction ( I wouldn’t call it response...) had really shock him because I am a very calm person and he has never seen me so angry before.
Although it felt good to finally be angry and express that to him for the first time..  I feel like I have failed in my detachement. I find it so hard to coop with the lies and the infidelity. I don’t trust him and I know my gutfeeling is right although I Cannot proof it.
He keeps on lying to me and deleting all the Messages from his OW. How do you all cope with that 😞. I know my I really struggle with myself and my feelings and would really appreciatie having a mentor...
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« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 05:51:43 AM by Songanddance »

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#1: August 01, 2020, 10:15:37 AM
Hi there

Sorry you find yourself in this spot, it is very difficult and first and foremost be kind to yourself. It is very hard to detach and we all can get surprised by our reactions. What you felt and said is so very human, and we can only do what we can do. It sounds like he is definitely very confused, so as much as you may want to engage you have to ask is he able to stick to what he says or are you really about to tie yourself back to an out of control car and get flung around? Start with what are you willing to engage with if you H is lying and not able to even make sense.

Wise vets will soon join and give you great advice, and I am sure you will find wisdom and comfort from many here. This is all very hard, and it is hard to explain to friends and family sometimes how crazy they are, and the insane clown logic we sometimes experience.

We are all here for you.
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#2: August 01, 2020, 05:27:25 PM
Hello,

Quote
Wise vets will soon join and give you great advice, and I am sure you will find wisdom and comfort from many here. This is all very hard, and it is hard to explain to friends and family sometimes how crazy they are, and the insane clown logic we sometimes experience.

While you wait for someone wise, I will chime in as well.

Quote
Says the affair is over but that they are stil having contact and that she has become a ‘friend’. I told him that I do not accept her as his ‘friend’ when we are working on our relationship and asked ( okay told)
him to break contact with her as a precondition for me to be willing to work on our relationship.


This is a perfect boundary. Remember, a boundary is not set to punish or change him, but to protect you. You don't want to work on a relationship with him while he is still has any interactions with ow at all. If you allow him to see both you and her, he will use both of you and your hurt will only be tenfold.

Quote
I don’t trust him and I know my gutfeeling is right although I Cannot proof it. He keeps on lying to me and deleting all the Messages from his OW.

If you don't trust him, then you are not ready to work on the relationship. I also want you to know that your gut feeling is probably right, You women have some instinctual lie detector that works really well. For some reason, you ignore it and that's when you get tripped up the most.

Since you feel (and he probably is) lying, it is important to get control of your feelings and  instead of reacting to his lies and bad behavior, you need to respond to his bad behavior. A response is a thought out, calm, and non-threatening. For example, he asks about returning or working on the relationship. Your response is, "I am glad that you want to work on our relationship. However, I can't work on our relationship until I am sure that OW is out of the picture. The very thought of her hurts my feelings and makes me angry. If you want me, she has to be gone completely." Don't be angry or defensive. It is a reasonable request.

Quote
I know my I really struggle with myself and my feelings and would really appreciatie having a mentor...

Your feelings are yours and the pain you feel is real. Just focus inward and take good care of yourself. Self focus is about healing and taking the time to recover from the trauma you have been through. I will forward your request!

(((((Hugs)))) and more (((((Hugs))))

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"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

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#3: August 02, 2020, 12:10:10 AM
Hi Cootje
From someone in a similar situation to you but much further down the line and therefore with a “brilliant experience”, stick with your gut (it has never let me down despite whatever H may have said to try to prove it wrong) and stick with your boundary of not wanting to work towards reconciliation until OW is completely, but completely, out of the picture.  At this point, your H is trying to have his cake and eat it, for as long and every time that you will let him.  There are some brilliant articles here on detachment, boundaries, cake-eating which you may find very useful.
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January 2018 - 1st BD - "I'm not happy"
June 2019 - I discover existence of OW since November  2017. Lives on another continent
July 2019 - OW moves to live in my city. H has been taking minibreaks on our continent with her since the beginning.  
August 2019 - H on holiday with OW, despite ultimatum
September 2019 - H commits to leaving OW
November 2019 - OW moves back to her country (temporarily). Reconnection with me begins.
December 2019 - H resumes remote contact with OW.
January 2020 - H informs me he has broken up with OW. Continues seeing her anyway.
April-June 2020 - H moves home. While "rebuilding", H continues contact and some PA with OW (BD2).
July 2020 - H leaves home, fence-sits.

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#4: August 03, 2020, 06:15:29 AM
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

RCR has asked everyone to keep to one thread until  that thread is 150 posts

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
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#5: August 03, 2020, 01:00:57 PM
Thank you all so much for your support.
My H has definitely filed for the divorce. There had to be some legal action ( also from my point of view), since our house has been sold, he moved into an apartment ( since March this year) and even though I have a very good job, I can’t afford our house on my own. We are married without any arrangements, so I am totally financial responsible for his financial actions ( and he is for mine). I have to move out of our house before the first of November. Now looking for an rental or buying a house for myself. In order to buy a house, as long as we are not divorced or have incorporated a ( I think you call it pre-nub arrangement?), he has to co-sign for my mortgage. Considering the continuous changing his mind and restlessness, I really didn’t feel comfortable by agreeing to that. He took that as a sign of ill faith ( which I think it is, but I have to be careful when it comes to financial responsibility I think during MLC although he has never, not even uptill now, has done me any wrong financially wise.
Anyway, I suggested to have the arrangement build in into our marriage. But he felt better with filing the D. Since we already have everything in place and, as he puts it, he does this out of love for us. So that I can buy an house as soon as possible and that it will help restore our relationship in the long run..
He says he wants to grow old with me, loves me and that he knows theare is no future with the OW. He says that if he had really wanted to, he could have had a serious relationship with here the past half year and that that hasn’t happened.
He says he has broken up with her, told her that he doesn’t want contact anymore and today he told me that Debussy’s blocked his number ( I only think, so you checked otherwise you wouldn’t have known..).
He has helped me sorting things out in our home today, helped me with the garden, was wearing his wedding ring ( it is not a classical wedding ring but still). And he has been very kind, helping to find a suitable home for me. Went back home to his apartment and will return tommorow to help me again with sorting out all our stuff and clearing out the house.
He asked if he could join me when I am seeing my coach. He has been reading books about dealing with emotions, has put our special painting ( a man and woman in love) on the wall in his apartment.
It’s so confusing. I don’t know if he is really trying to Resist temptation and trying to stay with me, or if he is acting out of guilt and waiting for me to have a new house and to have de D in place before he feels free to go to his OW...
perhaps it’s both..
I have to focus on getting a new place to live. I the meantime, since we will be divorced soon and won’t have a mutual home to return to anymore.. I feel like I want to use these days to plant some positive seeds for the future..
I am expecting that he will ‘leave’ me again (although he hasn’t returned home at this point, but expressed the will to work on our relationship). I just hope that it will take some time to be honest. Don’t know if that’s a wise path to follow, but I don’t want to get to no contact at this moment. Also because I have no proof that he is contacting his OW right now while working with me ( if I do I think I will go into No Contact mode).
What do you more experienced LBS make of this?
I feel I still want to stand, even though I will be divorced soon, since for me it’s only for my necessary  financial
Hoping for some wise thoughts  :-\
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#6: August 04, 2020, 02:05:29 AM
Cootje,

I have merged your two threads into this one. Please stick with one thread until it gets to 150 posts. Otherwise, the board is impossible for the mods and RCR to manage.....

Now for the rest....
<...snip...>
Anyway, I suggested to have the arrangement build in into our marriage. But he felt better with filing the D. Since we already have everything in place and, as he puts it, he does this out of love for us. So that I can buy an house as soon as possible and that it will help restore our relationship in the long run..
He's divorcing you "out of love for us?"


He says he wants to grow old with me, loves me and that he knows there is no future with the OW. He says that if he had really wanted to, he could have had a serious relationship with here the past half year and that that hasn’t happened.
He says he has broken up with her, told her that he doesn’t want contact anymore and today he told me that Debussy’s blocked his number ( I only think, so you checked otherwise you wouldn’t have known..).
THe basic rule of thumb is that a Mid-Lifer is usually lying if their lips are moving BUT..... Talk is cheap.... What counts are consistent actions that back up the words.....

He has helped me sorting things out in our home today, helped me with the garden, was wearing his wedding ring ( it is not a classical wedding ring but still). And he has been very kind, helping to find a suitable home for me. Went back home to his apartment and will return tomorrow to help me again with sorting out all our stuff and clearing out the house.
So, he's feeling guilty and his Love Language appears to be "Acts of Service."

It’s so confusing. I don’t know if he is really trying to Resist temptation and trying to stay with me, or if he is acting out of guilt and waiting for me to have a new house and to have de D in place before he feels free to go to his OW...
perhaps it’s both..
It is entirely possible that HE doesn't know either..... He is just "doing stuff" in order to NOT have to think about what is going on...

I have to focus on getting a new place to live. I the meantime, since we will be divorced soon and won’t have a mutual home to return to anymore.. I feel like I want to use these days to plant some positive seeds for the future..
And what future is that you want to plant seeds for? And, yes, this IS a "trick" question...... Because if you are planting seeds for a future with STBXH alone, you are replaying the biblical parable of the sower where some of the seeds fell on the path, some into the weeds and a few on fertile ground. The problem is that you don't KNOW where the fertile ground is at the moment or even if there is any.  To put it short - your seeds for the future need to be based on self-growth, and living the life YOU want to lead, regardless of whether STBXH is in it or not.

I am expecting that he will ‘leave’ me again (although he hasn’t returned home at this point, but expressed the will to work on our relationship). I just hope that it will take some time to be honest. Don’t know if that’s a wise path to follow, but I don’t want to get to no contact at this moment. Also because I have no proof that he is contacting his OW right now while working with me ( if I do I think I will go into No Contact mode).
What do you more experienced LBS make of this?
I'll be blunt - I am NOT a fan of NC unless it is for protection from abuse - verbal or otherwise. NC is NOT a way to punish the Mid-Lifer. It is simply a way to protect one's self. If you are hoping for any type of reconnection, that can ONLY happen if there is some communication and NC puts a total and complete block on that.  Going black-hole dark (only responding to his communication and then only if it is a business matter, keeping all communications short, concise, and to the point) might be a better way. If he is still in ontact with OW, rather than going NC, it might be a better idea to establish a boundary that, as long as OW is in contact with STBXH, you will not be. However, you do still need to communicate to arrange the sale of the house, etc. so true NC is not really an option (unless you want to hire a lawyer and let all communications go through them).

I feel I still want to stand, even though I will be divorced soon, since for me it’s only for my necessary  financial
Hoping for some wise thoughts  :-\
To file for a D is HIS decision.... and has NOTHING to do with it being strictly financial. There are (in most places) other ways of ensuring financial security than to get a D. However, his comment regarding:
Quote from: Cootje
I really didn’t feel comfortable by agreeing to that. He took that as a sign of ill faith ( which I think it is, but I have to be careful when it comes to financial responsibility I think during MLC although he has never, not even until now, has done me any wrong financially wise.
shows me, at least, that he is still in some sort of avoidance mode - He has broken your trust by having an affair. Why does he think you will blindly continue to trust him? Just because he has behaved himself financially so far does not negate the fact that he has broken a MUCH more intimate and fragil bond of trust by sticking his willie where it didn't belong. THAT is the trust bond that has to be rebuilt, NOT the one regarding the bank accounts....

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Me - 57, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
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2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

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#7: August 04, 2020, 05:12:14 AM
Thank you all for your reactions. It really feels good to have your thoughts and advise.
I must say today I am a bit in doubt wether or not he is actually in MLC or just cannot decide between me and OW, without an MLC. He seems very clear today. Talking about the fact that he is not sure about his feelings for me. He is responding pretty normally and also responding normally to friends. I noticed him using very different words and style when communicating with me via email. But today he is totally making sense when talking to me. Maybe he is just having difficulty letting me go after 14 years and is having abandonment issues without being in a MCL, it probably shouldn’t matter to me, but I guess maybe I am just trying to find an explanation that would Make it easier for me to understand.
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Hi there,
I was wondering how you respond to cake- eating, or even more so how to deal with the suspicion of you H/W eating cake.   Re- Reading my previous posting, I am now quite sure that he really is having a MLC. Today he told me about the idea of emigrating to another country and buying an old house there that we could restore. His youngest child is 15.. Living with his mother. When I asked him if he was truly thinking about leaving his children behind, he said that he would be fine, and that he wouldn’t move to the end of the world.... 
Back to the cake- eating. My H ( I still call him my H because divorce is not final yet and he is again not responding to emails) has told me that he wanted to work on our relationship. I know BD is only 7 months ago so it will probably be too soon, but I told him that I would like that too, but only if he would break all contact with his OW while we are working on our R.
He agreed and told me that he had broken contact with her.
However, I have this strong feeling telling me that he is contacting her and even that he is about to meet her tomorrow secretly. My question is, how should I deal with that? I don’t want to be a controller, but I would pretty easy for me to check on him. Should I do nothing and let it pass, or just repeat the respect boundary? Or should I check it out? There is a risk that  I could be wrong of course, but there are too many signs..
I would love to have some insights/experienced views on how to best handle this situation.  :-\

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#9: August 06, 2020, 05:08:03 AM
Quote from: Cootje
Back to the cake- eating. My H ( I still call him my H because divorce is not final yet and he is again not responding to emails) has told me that he wanted to work on our relationship. I know BD is only 7 months ago so it will probably be too soon, but I told him that I would like that too, but only if he would break all contact with his OW while we are working on our R.
He agreed and told me that he had broken contact with her.
However, I have this strong feeling telling me that he is contacting her and even that he is about to meet her tomorrow secretly. My question is, how should I deal with that? I don’t want to be a controller, but I would pretty easy for me to check on him. Should I do nothing and let it pass, or just repeat the respect boundary? Or should I check it out? There is a risk that  I could be wrong of course, but there are too many signs..
I would love to have some insights/experienced views on how to best handle this situation.

He told you he has broken off contact with OW?

His words and $2 will get you a cup of McDonalds coffee.....

Like I said before, talk is cheap. He can tell you anything he wants and probably will, if nothing else so a) you will either quit talking about it or b) so he doesn't have to feel so guilty....

7 months after BD? He's probably just heading off into the tunnel now for real.... The fact that he is totally OK with up and leaving his child with his xw, essentially killing off whatever R they have, tells more of the story than lots of things.

It also says that you are W#2... How did his current ex become his current ex? What's the story behind the demise of THAT R? Are there parallels to what you are dealing with now?

Cake-eating is basically when the Mid-Lifer is getting their needs met in more than one place to the detriment of the real spouse (and family, i. e. kids if applicable)... So,for example, if he is getting his emotional needs met at home by you but getting his physical needs met elsewhere, aka Doin the Mattress Mambo with OW, yeah, he's cake eating.... If he is telling you about his "issues" with the R with OW, he's cake-eating (what are you? His Doctor Ruth? please.... )... If he gets his Happy family fix with you and then scoots off to OW for a little "R&R" he's cake-eating....

Back to "He agreed and told me that he had broken contact with her." Very simple - in the immortal words of Ronald Reagan talking to Michel Gorbaschov when they started the Nuclear Arms Reduction Talks - "Trust, But Verify." A Mid-Lifer lies because it is easy to do so, they think they can escape consequences and need not take responsibility or be accountable for their actions.... The joke goes "How do you know when a Mid-Lifer in Replay is lying?" Their lips are moving.... Just be ready to find that he has, in fact, lied and is still carrying on the R with OW.....
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Me - 57, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 13, D - 9
2 Dogs
BD#1 - August 2015
Atomic BD - 13 Dec 2015
House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019

Survival Instructions for Newbies
Site Map
 
A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

 

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