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Author Topic: My Story Think my husband having MLC HELP

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My Story Think my husband having MLC HELP
OP: August 30, 2020, 04:52:58 PM
So here’s my story. November 2017 he had a bad quad accident and broke his pelvis and could not walk or work for quite a few months. He also back then talked about how he couldn’t believe in a few years he would be 60 years old. 

July 2018 I started to notice he was acting different. By that September he seem to be very depressed. We own a trucking company and he works a lot and he seem to be working more and more. I found out December 23, 2018 that he had an emotional fair with our best friends sister that ended the end of September sometime. He didn’t really want to answer any questions I had, Just kept telling me he was just trying to help her out going through her divorce.

For months he was very emotional tearing up over everything. I lost my dad that May.  By the end of June I felt like I was completely crazy and he wasn’t giving me any respect and I kicked him out. I think that set off his childhood baggage as his father had died when he was 10 and his mother basically threw him away like he was garbage to go live her life. When he was 17 he came home from school and she told him she moved him into an apartment because his stepdad didn’t like him and was verbally abusive ( so was his mom) and that he had to pay the bills. He was a senior in high school. 

I begged him to come home because it wasn’t really what I wanted I acted out of anger. In the middle of all this he bought a farm and said he wanted to eventually put a trucking company there.  The house needs redone but there is a little side apartment attached to the house that he was going to fix up.  

He finally moved home January of this year but never really made an effort to make things work. In May he told me he didn’t love me anymore That he was going to move out..hes still here.  If he truly wanted to leave he definitely could. If not to the farm house but to an apartment as we have the money. Also I felt like I hit my limit and called my attorney to draw up the papers for divorce. I gave those to him and told him he needed to sign the paper of acknowledgment so I could file.

He took the papers with him and has yet to return a signed paper. When I asked about it he told me he hasn’t had time even though it’s only a signature. He will come home for dinner and sleeps in my bed and always tries to have sex with me. Do I allow him to have sex with me?  He comes home for dinner...do I continue to cook for him?/I don’t know anymore what the heck I’m doing.  Any advice is appreciated. 
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« Last Edit: August 30, 2020, 07:34:43 PM by Thunder »

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#1: August 30, 2020, 06:09:00 PM
Hello,

I am sorry for the reason that you are here, but want you to know that you are in a good place.

Before we address your h. Let's discuss you. How are your working on healing yourself from your trauma? How are you taking care of yourself? In order to move forward, you have to be strong.

You wrote that you lost your father in May (2019?) and that had a huge impact on you as you threw your husband out shortly afterwards. You have filed for divorce. Is this something you want or to protect yourself financially.

With all that is going on with you and your h, I strongly suggest that you find a good therapist to help you. This is part of the self care that you need right now. As you heal, you will be able to deal with your h from a better mindset. Please read the forum articles on MLC as it will give you an idea of your h's crisis but remember, no two MLCs are alike. Similiar, but not the same.

I wish you the best and be good to yourself,

(((((Ready)))))

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#2: August 30, 2020, 06:23:04 PM
At first I was a total mess.   But I have picked myself up and dusted myself off.  I got a part time job, started yoga and spending more time with friends.  I have a counselor but need to find a new one. She doesn’t seem to believe in MLC.   I filed to protect myself financially.   He still hasn’t signed the acknowledgment paper so I can actually file.  I just wish I knew for sure that this was MCL or is it truly he just fell out of love.
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#3: August 30, 2020, 06:54:52 PM
Hello,

Quote
I just wish I knew for sure that this was MCL or is it truly he just fell out of love.

Whether it is MLC or not, your actions and responses would still be the same. Just to be fair, your h has a tremendous amount of baggage and probably has attachment issues from them,

As far as the counselor goes, I would focus on a counselor that deals with trauma. Many therapists vary on MLC, but that is trying to diagnose and analyze someone they have never met. The IC's focus should be on helping you find your path to recovery. Standing is a personal choice and as long as you are making progress to healing yourself, then your decision to stand for your marriage should have no bearing on your therapy.

(((((Hugs))))

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#4: August 30, 2020, 07:20:02 PM
Hi mouse

People don’t “fall out of love.”  It just doesn’t work that way.  But MLC *does* bury true feelings very deep so he (legitimately) believes that he has.  And there’s no convincing them otherwise.

It took me a loooong time to fully “get” this.  I wondered if our marriage was indeed a sham.  But it wasn’t.

Neither is yours.
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#5: August 30, 2020, 07:37:12 PM
I can’t thank you enough for your advice...you really don’t know how much it means. 
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#6: August 30, 2020, 08:39:33 PM
I'm so sorry you're going through this. My soon to be XH acted in a similar fashion; I asked him to spend some time alone ( this was at the beginning of his MLC, and I thought he was having a nervous breakdown as he wasn't sleeping or eating much. I didn't even know what an MLC was back then) doing a sort of 'self care' retreat. He had wanted to do a full blown meditation retreat but apparently missed the deadline and was freaking out. He was angry all the time, at everyone. He was acting completely unlike himself.

He was supposed to be gone a month and was to use that time to focus on taking care of himself.

Instead, he abandoned my daughter and I ( he later abducted her...it's a long story) and we were left to fend for ourselves.
He began an affair with a waitress that worked at the kid's restaurant he used to take our daughter to.

He told my daughter he wasn't in love with me anymore ( never had the balls to ever say that to me though!) and I'm still baffled how he could throw me/us away after 14 years.

Sadly, this is common MLC behavior. Like MeGoGirl, I thought maybe my entire marriage to him was a sham. Maybe all the incredible love we had was BS and I was this controlling, irritable, moody monster that I think he now believes I was. But to me, if I have a problem with something or someone I love, I can't hide that from them. I want to communicate with them and help them and get it worked out, not throw them away. Love is too valuable.

I agree my Megogirl. MLCers bury their feelings for the LBS. They become monsters that are driven by confusion and desperation, and they become narcissits.
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H born in 80
I was born in 83
Started dating in 2004; both felt we were soulmates & kept that feeling for 14 yrs
Married H 2006
D born in 2008
H entered MLC in late 2017
Replay started 2018
H moved out in April 2018; was supposed to be gone a month & focus on getting rest; he instead started an affair w/ 21 yr old waitress
H tricked me into moving internationally to stay w/my Mom in June 2018; he abducted our daughter for a YEAR in a desp attempt to cover up the affair

OW seems to be masterminding everything in his life and looks like she wants a green card.
Little to no contact with MLCer but he encouraged me to file for divorce
What's helping me:
meditation, reading/listening to audiobooks

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#7: August 31, 2020, 03:23:47 PM
He has definitely turned into a narcissist that is for sure. My husband, looking back, was the same as yours. He was very thin because he didn’t really eat a lot and he still doesn’t really sleep either. I’ve decided to continue to live my life and if he leaves, he leaves. I am still praying that he gets out of this fog and sees the reality of what he is doing.
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#8: September 01, 2020, 12:06:50 AM
Mouse73,

There was a link posted by someone on here to an article by a top marriage counselor. He said that many MLCers who cheat had some form of childhood trauma or issues-especially regarding a sibbling- and/or they are the subservient type that have issues taking care of themselves and put everyone else's needs before theirs.

That is, until midlife. If they don't get their subservient issues resolved ( look inside themselves and heal trauma or communication issues), they have an MLC and become horrible narcissists.

Like your hubby, mine is SUPER frail and thin, and I think he has some type of low key eating issues. He almost acted like he was unworthy when he ate, as though he needed permission. When his food came at a restaurant, he would ask my D and I first if we wanted a bite, before he had even taken one. My H barely slept either, but it was mainly because of his job. Although, it honestly seemed there was an undertone of him wanting to abuse himself, as though he wanted to mistreat himself and be a people pleaser. It makes me sad he was like this, and I actually have a suspicion if he hadn't had an MLC, he could have had something horrible happen to his health, like a heart attack or something. It's a sad situation, and I wanted to be there for him as he healed. But instead? He turned against me.

Yes, we need to just move on, focus on ourselves and healing. As much as we want to understand what's going on inside them and how they could dare cause so much pain and destruction, I don't think even they know the answer. I prayed for along time ( maybe about 2.5 years now) mine would emerge from the fog, and I've looked for clues. But he doesn't live in the same country as we do so it has been hard to monitor, but from what I can tell, he seems even more confused and now wants to change careers. I think the OW wants more money.....
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H born in 80
I was born in 83
Started dating in 2004; both felt we were soulmates & kept that feeling for 14 yrs
Married H 2006
D born in 2008
H entered MLC in late 2017
Replay started 2018
H moved out in April 2018; was supposed to be gone a month & focus on getting rest; he instead started an affair w/ 21 yr old waitress
H tricked me into moving internationally to stay w/my Mom in June 2018; he abducted our daughter for a YEAR in a desp attempt to cover up the affair

OW seems to be masterminding everything in his life and looks like she wants a green card.
Little to no contact with MLCer but he encouraged me to file for divorce
What's helping me:
meditation, reading/listening to audiobooks

M
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#9: September 10, 2020, 05:17:14 AM
Trying to figure out which stage my husband may be in? Again this started about three years ago when he got injured in a quad accident and could not work. We own our own business and it was a wake up call that there was no one to run the business if he could not. I only can see that it started then looking back I didn’t realize it then. July 2018 he started acting different  And distant.

End of September beginning of October 2018 he seem to be depressed. Friends and family were concerned about him always checking on him while he was at work to make sure he was OK. I found out December 23, 2018 that he had an emotional affair with our best friends sister.  I was devastated to say the least. We tried working on a relationship but he didn’t want to answer any questions about what had happened between the two of them so it was hard for me to get past. At one point he was constantly in tears over the littlest things or sometimes absolutely nothing. Then after that it seem like he had so much resentment and anger towards me that he could barely hold a conversation with me.

We own a trucking company so he is on the road a lot but since this has all went down he has been working more than ever running himself into the ground. Now I barely get a text letting me know if he is going to be home or if he is on the road At one point he was constantly in tears over the littlest things or sometimes absolutely nothing. Then after that it seem like he had so much resentment and anger towards me that he can barely hold a conversation with me. We own a trucking company so he is on the road a lot but since this has all went down he has been working more than ever running himself into the ground.

Now I barely get a text letting me know if he is going to be home or if he is on the road.  When he is home he will come home for dinner and still initiate intimacy and sleeps in the same bed with me. But other than that there is no time spent together. A few weeks ago I asked him to go to dinner and he agreed because we needed to pick some things up about an hour away but there was no Real connection.    I guess I’m just trying to figure out if this is MLC and if so what stage is he in? Any advice or help is more than appreciated!

Paragraph breaks for easier reading.
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« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 01:12:59 PM by Thunder »

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#10: September 10, 2020, 09:04:21 AM
Hello,

One thing I have realized that MLC is not a linear, straight line from start to finish. They can go back and forth from stage to stage as they start to emerge from one to go into another, they go back. Just like real people, no two MLCs are alike.

Based upon what you are writing, he is in replay and is a low energy wallower. Just be advised that he is on the road, he may have something on the side. I don't know. What happened to the EA? Was it ended by him or her. Often if the MLCer fails the first time, they just find someone new.

He seems to be in a crisis especially if this behavior is completely different from the norm. My advise is to look at how this has affected you and what you can do to recover from the trauma that you have suffered.

Hope this helps,

(((((Ready)))))
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#11: September 10, 2020, 09:28:10 AM
I think she ended it.  I still think there is contact but no proof.  And  why does he want sex from me if he’s with someone else??  I filed and gave him the papers to sign weeks ago but he hasn’t.  Maybe trying to hide money?   That’s the other thing...this is what HE wants so why doesn’t he leave me and file??????   I appreciate you helping me more than you know
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« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 09:50:44 AM by Mouse73 »

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#12: September 10, 2020, 02:08:23 PM
Hi Mouse I would follow your instinct on this.

He could very well be trying to hide money, but your best bet is to get a lawyer and see what they think, or what they suggest, if you haven't already.

Some of these MLCer can get very selfish so you need to protect yourself.
Especially when you have no idea if their is someone else in the picture.  They could be a big influence on them, I'm sorry to say.

I'm sorry Mouse, just keep a good watch on everything and take good care of yourself.

Hugs
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"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#13: September 10, 2020, 02:46:12 PM
Thank you!
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#14: September 11, 2020, 04:44:34 AM
I think she ended it.  I still think there is contact but no proof.  And  why does he want sex from me if he’s with someone else??  I filed and gave him the papers to sign weeks ago but he hasn’t.  Maybe trying to hide money?   That’s the other thing...this is what HE wants so why doesn’t he leave me and file??????   I appreciate you helping me more than you know

Let's start with the first question..... Why does he want sex with you if he's with someone else?  Because it props up his ego!  He has TWO women that he can sleep with! In his mind, that makes him "more of a man."

You filed and gave him the papers two weeks ago but he hasn't. Is he trying to hide money?
Maybe... It IS a possibility but it is just as likely that he has his head stuffed up his .... fog.... so far that he has lost the concept of time... It is like being on a manic high .... Mid-Lifers are notoriously good at ignoring things they do not want to deal with or anything that is any form of a buzz kill....

"That's what HE wants so why doesn't HE leave and file?"
Because then he would be the "bad guy." HE would be responsible for ending the marriage... If YOU do it, he can point and say "See? It wasn't my fault! SHE filed. SHE is the bad one, not me." Mid-Lifers refuse to accept any sort of responsibility for their actions, let alone realize that their actions come with certain consequences for which THEY are solely responsible....
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Me - 57, xW - 50
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
A REAL friend will sit you down and tell you to your face to stop being a firetrucking idiot before you ruin your life and the lives of those around you.

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#15: September 11, 2020, 12:44:02 PM
Thank you.  This is so confusing!   Also, I have been doing more for myself and being as happy as I can. He came home and I was getting ready to do dinner with friends ( he didn’t know where I was going), had the music on and singing.  Didn’t say anything to him except answered if he spoke.  He got ready for work and usually leaves right away, but he stuck around and stared at me as I was cleaning up the kitchen?   Last week I was leaving to go to a Labor Day party and he was “sexting” me after I left the house.   Ugh 😩
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#16: September 11, 2020, 01:03:57 PM
Ugh mouse for your own physical and spiritual health please stop having sex with him. You are bonding yourself with a pretty unstable person. The hormones in your brain during sex do that. Your brain forms a bond.
If he's getting it from her don't you give it to him too.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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#17: September 11, 2020, 02:16:34 PM
Hi Mouse,

I have to agree with In It, but for another reason than what she said, which was important.

You need to protect your health.
Just remember IF he is having sex with with her, then you are having sex with him, you are having sex with everyone she has ever been with.

My niece got divorced and dated this really nice guy...but she ended up with an STD.
Sadly an STD there is no cure for.  She will have to take medication for the rest of her life, and will need to notify anyone she dates now, of her situation.

I'm not trying to scare you, but she found out after the fact that after his divorce he was going to swinging singles parties and had no idea he was infected until he infected my niece.  She is only 42.

Just something to think about and decide for yourself if he is really safe.
At the very least use protection if you are not 100% sure he is with both of you.

I think if he cares about you he will understand your concern.

Sorry for the sex talk but we do need to protect our hearts and our bodies.
It only takes one time.

Hugs
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#18: September 11, 2020, 04:33:18 PM
Yes Thunder is spot on with this. I didn't emphasize how important your physical health is. I know you may not want to drop this particular connection with him.
If he gets upset that you are no longer available to him that way and says anything else except "I understand"
He doesn't care about or respect you at all.
He's been used to having his cake and eat it too and now you need to change that up, so he might just get upset.Don't worry about upsetting him.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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#19: September 11, 2020, 04:59:01 PM
Hi Mouse,

I am going to give you one person's perspective. It doesn't matter what stage he is in because:
Mine lived at home for 18 months. During that time he:
Said terrible things to me, screamed and was horribly rude, but also brought me slurpees and sub sandwiches
Went out and got drunk but insisted he was not vomiting in the bathroom. just coughing  ::)
Would leave the front door open when he left. I mean WIDE open, not even closed, much less locked. Creepy to come home to.
Would bring home ice cream, then refuse to put it in the freezer because I didn't want any "right then"
Stayed out all night, but called home to tell me he was going to be out, but just with friends. On work nights.
Started calling to tell me he'd be late (and he has NEVER done this before, just waltz in whenever he felt like it and expect the entire family to drop everything they were doing), then show up on time.
Be nice one minute and a crazy man the next. Once he realized he was being crazy, he had to leave the house.
Made sure he showed me he had gotten a bonus (showed  me the letter that said he had gotten one) he had put into what he thought was a hidden account. :P  So I told him he needed to talk to his employer because that bonus never made in to our account. He said nothing, but continued to hide money. I kept track and made sure I got my share from the joint account.
Quit his job because "everyone else" was out to get him. It was ALWAYS everyone else's fault.

So much else. I just started watching him like he was a bug in a terrarium. Nothing I did mattered, not one thing. I told him once after he screamed at me while I was trying to do something he;d asked as a favor that he treated complete strangers better than he did me. I got a blank look.

What stage was he in? It wasn't in the "I have screwed up so bad and want to make it right stage." so it just didn't matter. I would think "He brought me a slurpee, it must mean something. " Nope. It meant he had  been a jerk for years, maybe trying to get me to leave and be the bad guy when he was perfectly capable of being a considerate human being.

Someone once asked me, is his behavior acceptable to you? And I kept thinking if he had been the considerate part of this weirdness, it was good. But the screaming and anger over nothing was impossible for me to live with.  I didn't start healing until he moved out and I went as No Contact as I could manage with one child in college and one in high school.

It doesn't matter why HE does or doesn't do *whatever*. What you want, need and deserve does matter. You need to not be left homeless and penniless (it has happened to people her and elsewhere). You need to not have to worry for your safety and health. You need to make sure you don't end up with debt he incurs with someone else. You need to get yourself into a place where if he comes back or if he doesn't, you will be OK.

We all want or wanted to know why or try to figure out how long it's going to be, or if we can do something to make it go faster. It's an illusion of control over something uncontrollable. You must control yourself, do what you need to do (like protect your assets by opening your own bank account and keeping money in it and your health), but don't wait for him to make the decisions. You decide what is good for you. If it is MLC and he is one who figures it out and comes or stays home, you will see it. If it is MLC and he ends up running like so many do, you will be prepared. If it isn't MLC and he's just become a jerk (which can happen) you are also in a good place to keep moving yourself forward.

What stage is he in? At any time, it might be "Exit, stage left." Be prepared for that. JMO and experience.
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#20: September 11, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
Mouse I know some of this sounds very harsh to you right now, but we are all coming from different situations and just sharing with you what we experienced so you can be watchful of some things that you may be able to relate to.  Just things to be aware of.

My H was never a Monster.  He was a very Low Energy MLCer, never had an OW, but some can turn on you when you least expect it.

We just want you to be aware and don't always trust what they say.  They are very good liars.

Just take good care of yourself in every way.

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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#21: September 11, 2020, 05:53:04 PM
Mouse very important.

Yes really good liars and take heed of OffRoads post.

 Don't wait for him to make any decisions regarding money. Protect yourself.

You are getting great advice here.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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#22: September 12, 2020, 04:14:18 PM
Thank you everyone.  I haven’t had sex with him in months.  But constantly tries.  I mean constantly.    I was having sex with him and it made me feel so bad about myself.  You all have helped me so much!
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#23: September 12, 2020, 05:45:05 PM
Mouse that is the point, if it made you feel bad then you made the right choice for you.

There are some LBS's who can be intimate and it does not bother them, but not a lot of them.  I knew my H had no ow, so I was not bothered by that, but that is not the norm.

Most of them do have ow's on the side and lie about it.

You're doing good, Mouse.  Keep respecting yourself and keeping yourself safe.

Hugs
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Discussing MLC with my husband
#24: September 14, 2020, 03:38:30 AM
Has anyone talked with their husband telling them you think they are in MLC???
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« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 03:53:25 AM by Thunder »

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Re: Discussing MLC with my husband
#25: September 14, 2020, 03:45:33 AM
Well I will jump in and say there are many reasons and stories why this is a very very bad idea. Hey did I mention bad?

People in MLC are disordered, they project all their pain and difficulties onto others. If they did not they would address them and well, they wouldn't be in MLC. So what can be accomplished going to someone who is doing their best to deny their problems and saying "have you considered you have a very big problem?"

I would go as far as to say anything you tell him, if he is in MLC, is a guarantee he will reject as a thought and if an action he will then DEFINITELY refuse to ever consider.

Can I turn this around for a second and ask: what is it you want to accomplish if you did talk to him and tell him he may be in MLC? Because maybe this is more about a desire to control or "fix?"
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« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 04:11:02 AM by marvin4242 »

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Re: Discussing MLC with my husband
#26: September 14, 2020, 04:03:48 AM
I have to agree with Marvin, not a good idea.

My H has a very high IQ so I thought clearly he would understand if he read an article that fit him to a T.  Nope, he not only was irritated I showed it to him, but he said...that does not sound like me at all!   :o :o

It made me look like I was in denial because I didn't understand he just wanted his freedom.  I was not believing him and trying to change his mind.  I was not accepting how he felt...and there was nothing wrong with him.

I never mention MLC again.   ::)
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#27: September 14, 2020, 04:18:04 AM
We have a business and his spending is out of control.  Also, employees are trying to avoid him because of his jekyll and Hyde behavior.  I guess I will continue to let go and continue just watching him destroy everything he has worked his butt off for as difficult as that is.  I feel like jumping off this runaway train but feel bad for him at the same time.  I wish I was at the point of indifference.
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Discussing MLC with my husband
#28: September 14, 2020, 04:59:48 AM
Hello,

Quote
I feel like jumping off this runaway train but feel bad for him at the same time.  I wish I was at the point of indifference.

Yes, you definitely need to detach from the situation. However, let me explain the difference between detach and becoming indifferent. Indifference is apathy. Apathy is draining and leaves one with no energy and focused on the negativity. Apathy leads you to feeling that you have nothing to look forward to, and/or there is nothing meaningful that you can do. What apathy does is close your heart and warp your perspective to see only negativity and limitation.

Detachment is when you are not attached to a certain outcome. You feel an inner calm that is not easily shaken by what the future might bring. We feel at ease with ourselves, and life. When you are detached, you don’t assume anything—good or bad. You let reality unfold as it’s meant to be. Detachment is liberating yourself.  When you are not too concerned about what happens next, you can be free doing what you are doing.

Think of a boxer in the ring. As he grapples with his opponent at close quarters, he may have to push off to detach himself. To create a separation so that he can pull himself together, set his feet, and reengage at the right time. He may be detached from his opponent, but he still is in the fight. Indifference will only get him knocked out.

Don't worry about talking to him. Go find a nice wall in the house and let it know all that is wrong with it. The wall will listen better than your MLCer. After you finish your talk with the wall, go protect your finances. MLCers can go through the money fast and will leave you with nothing.

Time for you to be the mouse that roared!

(((((Ready))))))
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Discussing MLC with my husband
#29: September 14, 2020, 05:13:06 AM
Mouse -
I agree with the others.
No sense in doing it.

So many (most?) MLCers hit rock bottom both emotionally, in their relationships and finances before the start to come out of the tunnel.
AND, I'm not saying rock bottom is the impetus for coming out, just correlative.

Detach, love unconditionally and protect yourself to the best ability possible.
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Re: Discussing MLC with my husband
#30: September 14, 2020, 05:15:58 AM
We have a business and his spending is out of control.  Also, employees are trying to avoid him because of his jekyll and Hyde behavior.  I guess I will continue to let go and continue just watching him destroy everything he has worked his butt off for as difficult as that is.  I feel like jumping off this runaway train but feel bad for him at the same time.  I wish I was at the point of indifference.

It is incredibly hard to watch someone you love destroy their lives, their relationships, and we want to take care of them like we did. So the first step is to realize there is no “us” anymore. Its you and he is off on his own trip. Its a bad one. And it will most likely be destructive. And its so hard to accept that there is nothing you can do for him.

But what are you doing for yourself? Are you protecting yourself financially? Can you protect your assets or your share of the assets? And then do whatever you need to protect yourself emotionally.

I like to use this analogy: you are right now tied to the rear bumper of an out of control car driving toward the ledge Not much you can do from back there. You can cut the rope or just be dragged along and damaged and maybe even dragged off the ledge.
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#31: September 14, 2020, 05:23:33 AM
I need to keep hearing this!  I feel like I get to a place where I’ve had enough and then panic sets in the next day.  Can you protect yourself financially without filing?
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#32: September 14, 2020, 05:28:50 AM
Well... 
I tried that.
I set up a very detailed agreement where we would pay our common bills, then each get an equal allowance (all of our money was going into a joint checking account (so I thought)).
I think that was the impetus for my husband to file for divorce, because he did NOT agree with the agreement and he got angry that I had contacted a lawyer (ran it past lawyer only, who also thought my H would never agree). 
So, this party of one says you're better off consulting a lawyer and perhaps can file separation agreement instead of divorce.  Just let him know you only want to protect your finances.
Good luck!
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Discussing MLC with my husband
#33: September 14, 2020, 05:33:05 AM
I agree with Marvin, Ready and Thunder.
Waste of time and breath. And likely to provoke a bit of DARVO where he says either a) you're imagining it or b) everyone else thinks he's great or c) the problem is you. Which might hurt and doesn't help you at all, Mouse. As others say, I usually found it more helpful to talk at a tree or equivalent lol....and to pause and reflect on what the impulse to talk to him told me about my own priorities or needs.

Tbh it helped me to think of his behaviour being just like an addict. Never known an addict yet who agrees with someone else telling them they are until they decide they might be. Or responding well to being challenged about it.  ::)

You may indeed need to jump off the train and let him crash it, but if what he is doing to the business or joint finances is a risk to your future of course, that might include having to take action to safeguard your own interests where you can rather than just ignoring it completely. Depending on the law where you live, it may be possible to file for financial or legal separation without divorce. But tbh, if divorce is what is necessary to protect you, you will not be alone in that and most of us end up wishing we had bitten that particular bullet earlier where finances are at risk. As Marvin says, one of the tough truths is that there is no 'Us' now.
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« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 05:35:10 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Discussing MLC with my husband
#34: September 14, 2020, 05:41:21 AM
I seriously appreciate all your advice.  It’s hard to discuss with family/friends who haven’t been through this.  I need to detach and file. 
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Re: Discussing MLC with my husband
#35: September 14, 2020, 05:53:16 AM
As hard as it is you may have to if finances are in danger. As other have said filing does not mean you can not one day get back together. I can imagine it may be hard depending on community and beliefs, but protecting yourself HAS to come first. Family and friends may not get it, they may try to apply normal rules and that is so hard and confusing. That is why communities like this are so valuable. We all nod our heads and understand why. That this is NOT normal, that you CAN NOT simply talk about it, that just going to counseling will NOT work.

Do what you must, then deal with explaining to others.
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Re: Discussing MLC with my husband
#36: September 14, 2020, 05:56:51 AM
Agreeing with all the other posters here.
Rule number 1 -  put on your own oxygen mask first.
Protecting yourself financially is your number one priority.
Go to a lawyer ASAP and file for divorce so you can freeze the assets and prevent further financial destruction.
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Think my husband having MLC HELP
#37: September 14, 2020, 07:57:57 AM
Rule Number 2 - Please stick with a single thread until you reach 150 posts. Otherwise, people won't know which thread to really respond to and it makes it very difficult to manage the forum....

I have merged the 3 existing threads into this one so all our posts & the responses are in one single place.

Thanks,
UM
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A "friend" will not "stand by you" no matter what you do. That is NOT a friend. That is an enabler. That is an accomplice.
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Re: Think my husband having MLC HELP
#38: September 14, 2020, 08:20:44 AM
Thanks some of the of posts have been duplicated.
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#39: September 14, 2020, 11:58:43 AM
 I had enough. Told him he has to the end of the week to get out.  He’s been staying so he could hide money I’m sure. Nothing that a forensic accountant won’t find. I am relieved and sad all at the same time but I feel like the last two years have been total hell and at least I can see a light at the end of the tunnel now. We all deserve to find someone that loves us as much as we love them and I have a lot of love to give.   I am choosing to take control for once in this mess and it feels good.  He still hasn’t even signed the acknowledgment paper that I gave him weeks ago. This coming from a man who says he does not love me.     
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#40: September 14, 2020, 02:52:57 PM
There you go..why make any effort or wait around or play games with someone who would say that? He doesn't love you? Get out.
It's not called giving up, it's knowing when you have had enough.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: Think my husband having MLC HELP
#41: September 14, 2020, 03:47:45 PM
Mouse if he is acting as irrational about money as you say, he may very well thank you some day for stepping up to save things.

Not that you should do it for that reason, saving yourself comes first, but in his clouded, delusional, mind he is not capable of making good decisions.

He may run himself into a disaster but you don't need to join him.

Yep you're right a forensic accountant will find the truth.

Stay strong Mouse!
I'm so sorry you have to go through this. None of this is easy.
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Think my husband having MLC HELP
#42: September 14, 2020, 05:42:10 PM
You all have been so helpful and it feels good to get it out! 
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#43: September 16, 2020, 06:36:38 PM
I need advice...and a drink.  So he told me would be out by the end of the week.  He has given me many dates over the past and always says too busy blah, blah, blah.  The next day after me asking him to leave he seemed sort of off. He called to day he was coming home to shower and was driving that night  and I said ok, I left something he needed on the counter and he said aren’t you going to be there?  I said I’m getting ready to leave.  I didn’t tell him where I was going but went to dinner with friends.  We pull back in around 7 and he’s here.  I walked in and asked why he was still home. He said he just got done at the shop.  My friends and I changed and were leaving to go walking and he stopped me and said to leave the door unlocked he’d be home.  I said it’s 4 hours each way, what do you mean?  He said well it’s too late to leave now. He has left that late or later before.  So he tried to have sex with me and held me all night?  The next morning he was very chatty and not in a hurry to leave.  I almost saw a small glimpse of the person he used to be.   I asked him again tonight when he was going and he said he’s been so busy he hasn’t had time to work on the apartment.  I also asked if he had time to have an attorney look at the papers he won’t sign. Nope...no time he says.  WHAT IS GOING ON???  And what do I do now?
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Re: Think my husband having MLC HELP
#44: September 16, 2020, 11:46:20 PM
Well, I think you should start by reminding yourself part of getting off the roller coaster is to internalize this: stop trying to understand what is going on. Why? Well because he doesn’t know what is going on. And his behaviour doesn’t make sense and is not consistent, so trying to “understand” crazy clown logic (even emotional one) leads to become, well a crazy clown. It doesn’t lead to understanding.

It is very normal to try to understand. We all do it, for a while. But the sooner you stop trying to understand the less you will get tossed around.

If you need an answer how about: who knows? Followed by who cares? This is not meant to be uncaring, its more about realizing the situation for what it is. He may want you as option B, he may be feeling down and needs a boost. And yes, maybe there are still parts of his fractured self that is very much connected to you. But those are fragments, not a while person. You can’t really do much with that right now.

So just take a breathe, remind yourself what is going on. And try to see him as he is today. And simply step away. If it helps write down a list of all the things he has said, like he doesn’t love you, or the fact that as you say he is hiding money and LYING. It may help keep the picture clearer for now.
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#45: September 17, 2020, 02:16:50 AM
Thank you...I needed to hear this. 
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#46: September 17, 2020, 03:09:12 AM
 :'(
Quote
It is very normal to try to understand. We all do it, for a while. But the sooner you stop trying to understand the less you will get tossed around.
It is. And we have all done it. Largely bc some bit of our brain believes that if we can understand it, we can do something to change it.
But, with time, most of us learn that it is pretty impossible to understand from our POV.
And that trying normally draws us a bit closer to the cycling rollercoaster which tends to hurt and confuse us more.
And that any understanding we trip over does not change the reality of what is happening right in front of our noses, so it is usually wiser to simply focus on the behaviour we see and protecting ourselves from the effects of it the best we can. (Imho, further down the line, there is a kind of more distant understanding, and the MLC label might be part of that, which is part of our coming to terms with what happened to us in a way that helps us accept the reality of it.....but that takes a bit of time and detachment.)

So, your h - as far as you can see - has not signed the papers and has not found an apartment to move out to. Which means he is living at home, coming and going as he pleases, perhaps incurring debt or siphoning joint assets and behaving in random ways which are far from how a normal marriage looks. Which means you have some choices. And there is no right answer per se, only choices that feel do-able or best for you. The why doesn't matter as much as you feel it does right now bc a bit of your brain is trying to mind read and infer something from trying to do that. Which is normal in an uncertain situation.

But you do have choices..... so, I presume you have taken legal advice and you may need to get more on what your legal options are if he refuses to move out or respond to legal paperwork for instance. There are a whole set of possible choices there based on how you feel about the status quo, the uncertainty and how much risk you are facing. Other LBS have taken that route. Or you might decide that living with this random strange roommate is something you can cope with if you detach more and stop discussing anything significant with him, perhaps if you decide that your finances and emotional wellbeing is secure enough, so you just do nothing much about him other than detach with some good boundaries and go about your life regardless. Other LBS have taken that route. Or perhaps there is a middle ground where you legally or practically push to protect yourself financially but do nothing at all about whether he stays or goes, or his comings and goings, but treat him as an odd current roommate whose life is none of your business (and vice versa). Other LBS have taken that route. So, it really isn't one size fits all, Mouse....it depends quite a lot on some of the practicalities of your situation as well as your ability to decide what is best for you that you can control.

But, as I said, it's important to remember that you DO have choices. It might not feel like you do. It might feel like they are all sucky choices, that's true. Or that the outcomes are not certain from any of them. But that does not change the fact that you do have choices. Or that it is easier to think more clearly when we are not hooked onto someone else's rollercoaster emotionally. Or that it is ok to take your time to think about your choices if you are unsure.

And that we will support you whatever choice you make.

How it is today is how it is today. How you feel is how you feel. Things evolve, that's how life works, and that includes your thoughts and feelings, Mouse.

The future is unknown, but all you can sensibly act on today is your best judgment of what you are dealing with right now and your own best interests in a confusing and uncertain situation. That's good enough though. As a general rule, I think the more we focus on 'why', rather than 'what', the less we focus on our own best interests. We've all done it.....but moving away from that is also part of how we move forward. In a way, it's not very different from all the uncertainty about the virus is it? There is a point when speculating about the complicated 'why', or what might or might not be happening next, doesn't help us decide on things that we need to decide regardless.....so we try to make the best decision we can based on the information we have and our own personal values.
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« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 03:29:43 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#47: September 17, 2020, 04:11:01 AM
 :Treasur THANK YOU....this has helped me so much.   I sometimes feel like ripping the bandaid off and get it over with fast and down days I get sucked back in and can see his pain.   
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#48: September 17, 2020, 05:24:21 AM
You're welcome, Mouse  :)
Worry about YOUR pain first....and protecting yourself from further damage where you can....would be my best advice. Let him take care of HIs pain right now.....partly bc you can't fix it and mostly bc he is incapable or unwilling to worry about yours.

It is easier to feel compassion imho when we have less skin in the game if that makes sense, when we feel stronger and safer so we can see it as a graceful act of human decency not a weakness or doorway to manipulation. Get to safe ground yourself first....like the airplane rule about putting your own oxygen mask on if that makes sense.

Even after all this time, and with an xh long gone, I find that I do feel sometimes compassion for my xh. Usually if I remember who he was before and I reflect on how painful my own crisis has been on the offchance that he may have experienced something as painful. But I can't if I take it personally if that makes sense bc then I just see him as a rotten person or a really toxic mess who did awful things that hurt me. And I couldn't NOT take it personally while I was still exposed to the effects of him throwing hand grenades at my heart and life. My xh may indeed be happy as Larry now, I have no way of knowing, but I happen to prefer compassion as a way to live.....and I don't have to DO anything with my compassion really other than allow it to stop me hating or being disgusted by someone I loved for twenty years  :).....which feels better to me  :)

But I had to get to safe ground first  :)
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

 

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