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Author Topic: My Story Hhaving a hard time with this

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My Story Hhaving a hard time with this
OP: October 20, 2020, 07:07:14 AM
Hello all,
I cant say I'm glad to be here, but I am very thankful that this site exists. My husband and I have been together 10 years and just married march 2019. Enter his mother falling and breaking her back in June and we ran into a few legal problems in July in which we thought he might lose his job...stressful time.

I started to realize then that he was extremely stressed out, but couldnt understand why he was SO stressed out...it wasnt what I thought was the end of the world. His mother came to live with us June 2020. Needless to say that was a bad idea. Her and I  didnt get along living in the same house. Her and I had an argument August 5th and he moved her back to her house that day... and then that's when I REALLY noticed his behavior.

What I now know is bombdrop was August 18, 2020. He told me in a text that he had been unhappy for a while  and felt like his heart was dragged through the gutter and trying to hold it together for everyone else and now he is just holding it together for him. Of course I freaked out and try to reason and plead and beg and talk to him, but he had nothing to say to me. He went completely silent towards me.

After my son went over there one evening to talk to him he told my son that he wasn't leaving he was just trying to figure out how to talk to me about some things that were bothering him. Well 4 days later he sent me a text saying he didn't want to work things out and wanted to talk possessions and if he could get his things that he had before he moved in to our home. He left EVERYTHING at the house. Again I freaked out and the crying and begging through text commenced. He wouldn't answer me back at all.  My son texted him and told him he needed to at least tell me what was going on and why. So he texted me probably every nonsensical reason under the Sun of why. Some of his texts to me are textbook of what mlc'rs say.

There was no discussion, just him making statements to me. I finally wrote him a few letters through text Trying to explain those reasons away. Nothing in return.  After about 3 weeks after he left he sent me a text. It stated that I needed to understand that he was never going to live there again. And that he wanted to be able to come and get his things when he had time. He would let me collect the rent money to pay our mortgage and he would also pay the electricity bill and when he figured out what was going on with a tax return I could have that as well. But only if he could come get his things. 

I sent him another letter of course. Nothing. About 3 weeks after that he sent me a text saying he couldn't get into the electricity app because he didn't know the password I sent him a password and then that was it. I decided to send him a short text  I miss you and I love you. He sent me a text back saying that he never meant to be cruel to  Me. He just didn't know other than bluntly, to tell me what was/is his problem. That He is sad beyond words for the 1st time in his life and hes never had these feelings before , and he will just have to push through it somehow. He said he was purging his mom's house (shes a hoarder) And that I would be proud. I sent him a text saying that I understood it he had to work through things and that I hoped that we could start to work on our marriage soon. And that I was glad that he was purging his mom's house and I'm sure that I would be proud. Nothing.

That night I looked up depression and leaving your spouse I came across mid life crisis and that was the beginning of this journey. I realized that me sending him the begging and pleading and the  Relationship talks were doing damage, I stopped immediately.

I took 3 days to write him another letter through text. I told him that I was worried about  him being sad and that he was away from me and our home for over a month and he was still feeling the same feelings. I told him that I would be there for him in any way he needed me to be. There was more said but that's the gist of the letter.

No relationship talk.. No pressure… just me stating that I loved him and I hope that he would push through whatever it was he was going through. I didn't expect a reply, and I didn't get one. About 3 weeks later which was last Saturday(Hurricane Delta hit our area) I get a text stating,"I hope everyone/everything is ok over there. The renthouse has a tree down in the yard and I dont know how much of a pain that will be to me, mom fell again and other than that,life as usual.I tried the passwords and none work so please send me a screenshot of the bill".

I sent him a text back telling him there was no damage to house, a lot of debris and that I would be taking care of that as soon as I could.I did tell him that my dad was going into open heart surgery this week. He sent me the text,"ah $h!te, I hope hes ok. Glad to know theres no significant damage. Let me know how dad is doing"
He sent me a text on the day my dad was supposed to have surgery (Tuesday)  and said that he had been using the wrong email and that the bill was paid...I thanked him for that and told him I would let him know how my dad was when he had surgery.  He texted back that he was praying for him. Now its silence again.

I know that he doesnt have AW...however i believe his mother is definitely an "alienator". I guess I really dont know if I'm handling this the right way, and kind of confused on the type of contacter he is, or if it's too soon to tell. He has told NO ONE about his leaving as well.Help?
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« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 08:43:14 AM by Gypzziroze »

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Confused on is his type of contact
#1: October 20, 2020, 08:46:12 AM
Hello,

I am so sorry you are here, but due to your situation, you will find the advice here very helpful and let you understand that you are not alone during his crisis. I state his crisis because he is the only one that can work his way out of it. You cannot plead, talk, manipulate, or love him out of it. You can have a major influence on him by living and focusing your energy on you and your family.

I want to clarify some concerns- his mother. You and her had an argument that put him in a difficult situation-and it left him very conflicted. She seems to be a difficult person to deal with, but she is his mother. Also the fact that she is a hoarder (is this an extreme issue?) If it is, then her issues have had a profound impact on him as well.  At this time, I don't know if she can be the alienator unless she enables him to avoid. In most cases, the OW/OM allows the MLCer to escape. His or her presence creates a high for the MLCer to escape and avoid. If his mother is an alienator, how does she help him avoid the crisis.

From what you have mentioned and it is very early to classify anyone, he comes across as a wallower. He just wants to be left alone to deal with his life. His cleaning his mom's house out may be his own therapy at the moment. My advice is for you to let him do his thing, limit your contact and focus on your own healing from the trauma you have endured.

Keep posting. I suggest counseling and keeping a journal of the things you would like to express to him but can't at the moment.

(((((Hugs)))) and more (((((Hugs))))

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Re: Confused on is his type of contact
#2: October 20, 2020, 08:51:23 AM
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.msg380#msg380

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

RCR has asked everyone to keep to one thread until  that thread is 150 posts

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
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Confused on is his type of contact
#3: October 20, 2020, 09:02:09 AM
Hi, thank you for replying. Yes, I understand that the situation with his mother put him in a rough position,  but he didnt even ask me what happened. He told me what happened, and didnt want to hear any of the actual content. When I tried to bring it up with him, he shut it down and wouldnt talk about it. I actually sent her an apology letter to which she replied accepting it and to take care of myself.
Her hoarding isnt extreme,  but a lot of safety issues. More crowded living I suppose and he is removing those issues. As far as me thinking of her as an alienator, she is of course going to take his "side" of justifying his leaving the way he did...etc. she is extremely happy to have him living there with her and not talking to me (I'm assuming the last statement). Her other 3 kids rarely talk to her. Thinking back he had tried to talk about spinning his wheels, but what we were talking about was the money that was just going out from our legal fees and bills going up from her moving in. That's what I assumed it was and it was just never talked about again...if I tried to ask him what was wrong, he would say he was tired....the only other answer I got was the wheels. I guess I am trying to figure out if he is a vanisher or distant contact...and how to communicate with him.a friend went to visit him last night and he said that he didnt mention me at all...actually sounded and looked like himself. I'm just confused and extremely sad
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Confused on is his type of contact
#4: October 20, 2020, 09:31:38 AM
Hello,

Thank you for the extra information. The fact the other children do not contact her speaks volumes. Yes, I know how sad you are and the fact that there really isn't a rational explanation. One of the reasons why I don't classify him as a vanisher is that he has made some contact with you and has made an effort to pay bills and make sure the mortgage is paid.

However, we are early in the game and I don't want to jump on any particular conclusion as to what type of MLCer he is until there has been a little bit more water underneath this bridge.

As OP stated, you need to detach from the situation. I often thought I was detached, but I really wasn't. I was bound to one outcome and that was the reconciliation of my marriage. When you are truly detached, you are open to any resolution including him not coming back. Because you are not clinging to only one outcome, you are able to focus and live for you and your family.

I would avoid jumping to conclusion that he looks "normal" from friends. We all wear masks. I know of many people that I thought I really knew only to find out how different they actually were in real life.

I hope this helps and I know how terrible things are for you at the moment. Just take the time to be good to yourself. Eat and get some rest. Find some comfort food or a nice hot bath.

((((Hugs)))) and more ((((Hugs))))

Ready
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Confused on is his type of contact
#5: October 20, 2020, 09:40:00 AM
Thank you for your reply  :)
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Re: Confused on is his type of contact
#6: October 20, 2020, 10:01:30 AM
Welcome Gypzz!

Ready gave you some very good advice.

Hugs
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Confused on is his type of contact
#7: October 20, 2020, 07:32:43 PM
Welcome Gypzz!

Ready gave you some very good advice.

Hugs
Thanks 😊
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Re: Confused on is his type of contact
#8: October 21, 2020, 01:52:05 PM
Welcome GYpzz

Here for you as are many of us.

Keep posting - the more we learn about you and your MLCer the more we can give appropriate guidance and advice.
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BD march 2013
Stay at home MLCer
OW for 3.5 years - finishing Autumn 2016
Reconnection started 2017 and still going with no sign of reconciliation.

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Hhaving a hard time with this
#9: October 23, 2020, 02:13:24 PM
I know everyones story is different and one and the same. I never thought I'd be here writing anything much less even have had a reason to find this forum.
I am thankful for it though. I would probably be doing more harm than good in this situation if it weren't for people having been through this living hell.
Today,  like every other day has had it's ups and downs. 2 months and 5 days since BD and the last time I saw my husband. I'm getting better at not crying everyday, but today is one of those days. The tears wont stop,  no matter how much I try to shove them down. I'm not here for pity party. I just have to write and throw it out to the universe. I'm trying to understand all this.

 I read somewhere that even silence is a form of monstering. Has anyone else read that? Who here has had a distant contactor? How did they act and how the hell did you get through the silence? Did they ever come clean on what they were actually thinking the whole time?? I cant seem to find any posts, so reaching out. (I'm still looking)

I have to admit, today I had the thought to write him something...just to reach out to him in hopes of to touch something in him to talk to me. I fought against that idea,  and will not.

Just a few thoughts

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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#10: October 23, 2020, 04:03:47 PM
Hello Gypzziroze, ((((HUGS))))

You might want to keep this over on your first thread, that will make it easy for everyone to keep up with your posts if they’re all in one place!

You’re grieving. Crying a lot is soooo normal when we’re grieving. This circumstance really hurts and it’s a big loss on multiple levels all at once. It’s natural for tears to come, so give them and yourself room and permission to feel and cry.

I haven’t seen my h in over 2 years. He moved far away with ow2 and this summer during pandemic, while still trying to connect or stay connected to me, he let me know he has bought a house with her and is staying put where he is. I can tell you I cried so much that my siblings called friends who live nearby to come out to the house to make sure I was safe and didn’t need to be hospitalized or something.

I won’t say it gets easier very quickly? But I want you to know that it does get easier. And it doesn’t matter, anything about the ow.

The one who matters is You.

Right now it’s important for you to take care of you. And being here and sharing your story is part of it. Keep reading and keep writing, and we’ll keep responding.

I know it’s really hard. You’re going to be ok; it’s just a matter of finding the rhythm and the things and ways that work for you, the parts of life that feed your heart and your soul and spirit. We often forget our own selves a bit in relation to others, especially in distress when a spouse has left and for such bad and unexpected reasons. But it’s still going to be ok.

Keep telling your story. There are any number of good people here whose own stories and experiences and insights may help you along.

(((HUGS))) — I totally feel you. Keep breathing and cry when you need to and just know that that is grief and it’s normal. Sending loves.
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Hhaving a hard time with this
#11: October 23, 2020, 05:04:54 PM
HI GYPZZIROZE

I merged your first thread with your new one. We ask that you don't start a new thread for 150 posts. This makes it easier for posters to follow your story line. Once you reach 150 posts you can copy the address of your thread and post it on a new thread so people can go back and see what you have written.

First, cry as much as you want. Really, it is the body's way to release grief and it is normal and necessary. So no apologies for crying. You are very new to this and trying to suppress it will not help you.

Their time is not our time. It may seem like a long time between contacts and yet to them it may be really short.

Give him space. There is nothing wrong in answering him if he contacts you...but that may not be for a while.

I have a clinging boomeranger..he goes a long time between contact and then will connect back again...kind of like a little boy who keeps looking back to see if his mother is still there. I know, not a pleasant way to be seen but nothing about MLC is pleasant.

(((HUGS)))
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https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#12: October 23, 2020, 09:05:43 PM
Hello Gypzziroze, ((((HUGS))))

You might want to keep this over on your first thread, that will make it easy for everyone to keep up with your posts if they’re all in one place!

You’re grieving. Crying a lot is soooo normal when we’re grieving. This circumstance really hurts and it’s a big loss on multiple levels all at once. It’s natural for tears to come, so give them and yourself room and permission to feel and cry.

I haven’t seen my h in over 2 years. He moved far away with ow2 and this summer during pandemic, while still trying to connect or stay connected to me, he let me know he has bought a house with her and is staying put where he is. I can tell you I cried so much that my siblings called friends who live nearby to come out to the house to make sure I was safe and didn’t need to be hospitalized or something.

I won’t say it gets easier very quickly? But I want you to know that it does get easier. And it doesn’t matter, anything about the ow.

The one who matters is You.

Right now it’s important for you to take care of you. And being here and sharing your story is part of it. Keep reading and keep writing, and we’ll keep responding.

I know it’s really hard. You’re going to be ok; it’s just a matter of finding the rhythm and the things and ways that work for you, the parts of life that feed your heart and your soul and spirit. We often forget our own selves a bit in relation to others, especially in distress when a spouse has left and for such bad and unexpected reasons. But it’s still going to be ok.

Keep telling your story. There are any number of good people here whose own stories and experiences and insights may help you along.

(((HUGS))) — I totally feel you. Keep breathing and cry when you need to and just know that that is grief and it’s normal. Sending loves.


Thank you for replying,
I'm still trying to figure out this forum thing...may get a handle on at least that soon 🤣

My friends did the same thing a few nights after BD. Apparently I didnt how much turmoil I was in. Panic attacks are not fun, havent had one since I was 20 and I have never had one that bad...so thank God for friends. I have read so many stories here and it's uncanny just how very similar they are. I feel for everyone here
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Hhaving a hard time with this
#13: October 23, 2020, 09:20:19 PM
HI GYPZZIROZE

I merged your first thread with your new one. We ask that you don't start a new thread for 150 posts. This makes it easier for posters to follow your story line. Once you reach 150 posts you can copy the address of your thread and post it on a new thread so people can go back and see what you have written.

First, cry as much as you want. Really, it is the body's way to release grief and it is normal and necessary. So no apologies for crying. You are very new to this and trying to suppress it will not help you.

Their time is not our time. It may seem like a long time between contacts and yet to them it may be really short.

Give him space. There is nothing wrong in answering him if he contacts you...but that may not be for a while.

I have a clinging boomeranger..he goes a long time between contact and then will connect back again...kind of like a little boy who keeps looking back to see if his mother is still there. I know, not a pleasant way to be seen but nothing about MLC is pleasant.

(((HUGS)))


Thank you for replying,  getting the hang of forum etiquette lol

Somewhere I have heard of the time thing...where it nearly stands still for them,  yet of course not us. I wish I knew more about that...I've run the gamut of online articles, etc...do you have a suggested read for that particular issue?
I am dead set on not contacting him first right now even though every fiber of my being is screaming to do so. When he has contacted me this last month, I have responded...and even my responses seem automated....In my original post I stated that I had sent him a letter through text about how I would always be there for him in any way he needed while he was working out what he needed to do...I didn't expect a text back and I didn't get one....I just wonder if he even read it... this whole thing is just...so frustrating
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Hhaving a hard time with this
#14: October 24, 2020, 02:53:22 AM
Dear Gyp, I want to congratulate you on fighting your own impulses to initiate contact or send any more letters of 'support'. We all remember how hard that is when you are internally screaming for answers and reassurance and a bit of certainty.

Please continue to trust your judgment on this. Why? Bc you need to train your brain....and it takes a while....that your h has no useful answers to your questions. Whether it is bc he can't or he won't does not change that. It is a simple truth I think that the source/cause of our pain is rarely helpful in dealing with that pain....but my word, that takes a big shift in mindset for most of us who spent years accustomed to a spouse who was very different to the one we see in front of us.

Stonewalling (the refusal to talk) and gaslighting (trying to normalise things that are not normal or lie about self evident facts as a kind of control) are pretty common behaviours in MLCers and unfaithful spouses and depressed folks. As is a surreal kind of self-centredness and lack of empathy. Whether this is intentional abuse or simply a function of someone else's dysfunction, it can feel like abuse regardless. Being shunned and silenced tends to prod a very deep bit of us as human beings and it is often extremely traumatic. Your frustration is normal and understandable....and the only way to feel less frustrated is to change your expectations as part of adapting to the reality you can see. Not the one you want or assume or infer.....the one you can currently see. And that is often very painful for most of us...hence many of us experiencing things like panic attacks and other PTSD like symptoms bc our brains are traumatised by this new surreal reality.

My former h said very little and ignored me for weeks and months, even about practical things. Your h does not yet seem to have quite reached that stage. On the rare times when he did speak....and he lied a lot about most things....he made no sense usually. And he made announcements rather than having any discussion, just as you describe. It's a very strange thing to experience isn't it?

The only answer to it all tbh is to stop going to a well that is dry. I had to repeat to myself over and over for months that my then h simply did not care what I thought or felt or needed. And he did not want to talk to me and he did not want my support or help.  I didn't know why and I found it incomprehensible, but his actions showed that it was a simple truth.
And trust that, with time, you will find better wells and decide for yourself how much of your h's behaviour is can't and how much is won't.

So, the first thing that all LBS need to teach themselves is to dig their own well  :)

Practical stuff.....take self-care seriously.....treat it like a liferaft. Not a nice to do but a thing that will help you survive this terrible time in your life regardless of what happens. Make it an absolute priority every single day. Find out what makes you feel calmer and stronger, then do that. Move away from things that make you feel more anxious or weaker....and at times that may include interactions with your h. I did not start healing until I put my healing front and centre above anything else. Including my then h and my marriage.

More practical stuff....protecting yourself legally and financially and emotionally and physically.....take legal advice even if you are not ready to act on it. Lock down access to joint finances and assets and debts where you can. Not all crisis folks spend like drunken teenagers but some do....and all folks in crisis will do what serves them without much regard at all for the consequences of their actions on others....so you have to look after you bc your h probably won't. And while not all MLCers have an ow/om in the mix, the sad truth is that the vast majority do and that most LBS start off by believing that their spouse is different....until they find out this is not so.  ::) Again, on a practical level with regard to communicating with your h, it is probably safer to assume that he is talking to someone who is not you and that your communications (especially heartfelt written ones) may be seen by other people with their own agendas.

I am truly sorry that life has brought you here, but I hope that the support and experience of others who have been just where you are will help you find your own way to navigate it.
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« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 03:37:43 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Hhaving a hard time with this
#15: October 24, 2020, 03:28:20 PM
Dear Gyp, I want to congratulate you on fighting your own impulses to initiate contact or send any more letters of 'support'. We all remember how hard that is when you are internally screaming for answers and reassurance and a bit of certainty.

 
It is extremely hard...probably the hardest thing I have ever made myself do. He has always been a rational thinker and I have to remind myself that right now he is not...no matter how much I wish it otherwise.


Please continue to trust your judgment on this. Why? Bc you need to train your brain....and it takes a while....that your h has no useful answers to your questions. Whether it is bc he can't or he won't does not change that. It is a simple truth I think that the source/cause of our pain is rarely helpful in dealing with that pain....but my word, that takes a big shift in mindset for most of us who spent years accustomed to a spouse who was very different to the one we see in front of us.

Stonewalling (the refusal to talk) and gaslighting (trying to normalise things that are not normal or lie about self evident facts as a kind of control) are pretty common behaviours in MLCers and unfaithful spouses and depressed folks. As is a surreal kind of self-centredness and lack of empathy.

  The lack of empathy...the proverbial nail on the head. He couldn't even bring himself to say "I hope you and the house are ok".....used the words "everyone and everything over there"...unless he has driven by the house, he doesnt know that my son moved back in with his girlfriend...so the use of "everyone" in his statement really stood out to me. To say this is surreal is a gross understatement...for I believe there is no word imagined for this type of existence. But, its definitely a damn good word 😊

Whether this is intentional abuse or simply a function of someone else's dysfunction, it can feel like abuse regardless. Being shunned and silenced tends to prod a very deep bit of us as human beings and it is often extremely traumatic. Your frustration is normal and understandable....and the only way to feel less frustrated is to change your expectations as part of adapting to the reality you can see. Not the one you want or assume or infer.....the one you can currently see. And that is often very painful for most of us...hence many of us experiencing things like panic attacks and other PTSD like symptoms bc our brains are traumatised by this new surreal reality.

My former h said very little and ignored me for weeks and months, even about practical things. Your h does not yet seem to have quite reached that stage. On the rare times when he did speak....and he lied a lot about most things....he made no sense usually. And he made announcements rather than having any discussion, just as you describe. It's a very strange thing to experience isn't it?

Yes...the announcements....the statements... absolutely no discussion...simple bewilderment.

The only answer to it all tbh is to stop going to a well that is dry. I had to repeat to myself over and over for months that my then h simply did not care what I thought or felt or needed. And he did not want to talk to me and he did not want my support or help.  I didn't know why and I found it incomprehensible, but his actions showed that it was a simple truth.
And trust that, with time, you will find better wells and decide for yourself how much of your h's behaviour is can't and how much is won't.

So, the first thing that all LBS need to teach themselves is to dig their own well  :)

Practical stuff.....take self-care seriously.....treat it like a liferaft. Not a nice to do but a thing that will help you survive this terrible time in your life regardless of what happens. Make it an absolute priority every single day. Find out what makes you feel calmer and stronger, then do that. Move away from things that make you feel more anxious or weaker....and at times that may include interactions with your h. I did not start healing until I put my healing front and centre above anything else. Including my then h and my marriage.

More practical stuff....protecting yourself legally and financially and emotionally and physically.....take legal advice even if you are not ready to act on it. Lock down access to joint finances and assets and debts where you can. Not all crisis folks spend like drunken teenagers but some do....and all folks in crisis will do what serves them without much regard at all for the consequences of their actions on others....so you have to look after you bc your h probably won't. And while not all MLCers have an ow/om in the mix, the sad truth is that the vast majority do and that most LBS start off by believing that their spouse is different....until they find out this is not so.  ::) Again, on a practical level with regard to communicating with your h, it is probably safer to assume that he is talking to someone who is not you and that your communications (especially heartfelt written ones) may be seen by other people with their own agendas.

I am truly sorry that life has brought you here, but I hope that the support and experience of others who have been just where you are will help you find your own way to navigate it.

Thank you for your words. I read a lot of your journey as well, and you write so eloquently. It truly is a breath of fresh air.  😊
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Hhaving a hard time with this
#16: October 25, 2020, 07:42:33 AM
I just saw a meme on facebook that a friend posted. I believe it is fitting.

"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than $h!te, the fly wouldn't understand."

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« Last Edit: October 25, 2020, 07:48:21 AM by Gypzziroze »

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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#17: October 25, 2020, 09:06:26 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Hhaving a hard time with this
#18: October 25, 2020, 08:05:27 PM
Today was an ok day...I saw that meme above early this morning and I guess it spoke to me more than I realized. Funny as hell,  yet sad in the same.
As much as I've read about this,  I'm 99% certain that is what is happening with him. But there is this little voice nagging at me... what if I did do something that made him leave... what if I would have put more effort into my appearance during covid... (he didn't mention that,  it's just my thoughts)... the what ifs are killing me. Yet there is this voice that is screaming at me hell no... you really arent the bad guy in this scenario.
Some of the things I heard from the BD text throughout...

August 18th - I've been unhappy for a while. I've been able to deal with the little things that make me unhappy, but lately everything is just dragging my heart through the gutter. I can't even explain how hurt I've been and it's just got worse. All I ever do is try to keep everything together for everyone else. And it doesn't work.ever. so now, I'm just trying to keep me together . I don't expect anybody to understand, but that's just the way it is and that's all I have to say at this point .

*After my son talked to him at his mothers house and he told him he wasnt leaving me:*
August 20-We will talk once I figure out how I am going to say the things I want to say without causing more drama. Stop worrying about this. We will talk soon

*I sent him an article on stonewalling,  and the next morning I woke to this text-*
August 24-That's a good article and I hope you read it too. But, I'm not interested in "working things out ". I just want to talk about belongings. I want to know if I will be able to get the things I owned before I moved to Milton.

*My son texted him that evening telling him that he needed to at least explain why he was doing what he was doing....of course there is begging and pleading on my part...too much to put here for sure...*

August 24- It first started when we had that first big blowout while ric was visiting for a semester. I was going to leave then, but the boy's asked me to stay. So I stayed for the boys that time.
*(The first argument we ever had...January 2014...we've been together since october 2010)*

Right around the 3rd big blowout I got a storage and started moving little things to it, but then the flood came and I would have felt like a complete d!ck leaving then. So the flood was the reason I stayed the second time.
*(Werent arguing about anything that I can remember and I've racked my brain...so dont really know what that is about)*

I hoped getting married would change things,  but I realized that it hasn't the night you insisted on risking your life driving the avalanche backwards home from the store while you were way too fuct to be driving . Just about caught the God dam truck on fire. It was almost that point that   I gave up trying to do nice $h!te for you, bc you totally pissed away the gobs of time and money I put into getting that firetrucking thing going.
*Long story about the truck incident, it's totally not how he portrayed it here...I'll tell that story if I have too. This incident was 1 month after we got married..April  2019.*

Next, I finally got a 4-Runner! I wanted one for a while. I had that $h!te set up too. firetrucking AC and everything.  But,,well firetruck that one too.That's when I gave up doing firetruck all.I don't know if you noticed that or not.
*NEVER expressed interest in a 1990 something 4runnner before...in fact this one was being given to us and he asked me if it was something I would drive, if i didn't want it we would tell his brother no.*

Yeah, I'm still God dam salty about that firetrucking $h!te.

I couldn't leave then, bc you were crippled from the firetrucking accident. What a d!ck I would have been right ?
Every time I have ever tried to complain to you, it gets minimized. It's futile arguing with you.
I know you want to blame my mom for all of this, but the way things wound up only compounded previous things and pushed me off the cliff. I can hear the contempt you have for her in your voice.

This was the last thing he sent that evening. I sent him long letter texts...explaining away...trying to reason with him...etc..silence. until this next one...

August 28th- A marriage is supposed to be a partnership. That's true. It takes effort on both sides. I was barely breathing between working and trying to have any time off for the past however long it was.But living there got me to the point where I could never work enough for every little thing that comes up. I felt like I was under water. With no life raft. And I'm tired of being a debt slave. I don't want to die poor. And I can't have a comfortable life if I'm the only one always working. Yes, you've had jobs here and there, and when I tried to mention a full time  job I heard of for you, there was always a reason why you couldn't or wouldn't do it. I could have got you a few jobs,  bank teller job one time, but you didn't even want to inquire about it. Then got pissed off when I pushed the issue. I don't hate my job, but I don't love  working every day either, it's just a choice I made.
I hoped when we got married that you would start  doing something regular to enhance our income and livelihood. I get it that the avalanche was down from a botched repair. But you were never without a vehicle,  you could have chosen to go do something.   Especially since we both got in all that trouble. Then there was me mentioning something about spending your stimulus check on that pool and you got rather pissed about that. In short, it's clear to me that we have different ideas about how things should be.

*By the way...yes, I work, and I spent $120 on the pool...he forgets he wanted the pool up and running as well) then nothing...of course there was pleading with him to be reasonable etc...*

September 4- Ive thought long enough about this now and here is where I stand.I don't want to be mean or rude about any of this, but you need to understand that I'm not living there again. That's off the table. We need to be clear about what happens next. I would like to be able to get all my stuff from there, and I know it will take a while. So, I'm planning to start getting some things as soon as I have some time. I realize that you likely don't have much income or a regular job. I hope I'm wrong about that though. If you are agreeable about letting me get my things, I am willing to continue letting you collect monthly's from Thorn until January, which is when I will probably move back into my house. I will also pay your electric bill until then as well. And you can have my income tax return once I sort out whatever bull$h!te is going on with it. I want to be fair, but you need to be fair about it too because if I'm not allowed to go and get my things, then this offer is null and void. Please,  I just want to move forward with this as peacefully as possible.

*I asked him why he didn't want to be with me anymore and didnt I at least deserve an answer*
* Also, told him in a letter text that I had found a regular job...that one finally contacted me after my initial application in June *

I think I've given you enough reasons .

(I texted back "Because I didnt have a job since covid lockdown started and I wrecked the 4runner bc the balljoint failed?!")

If that's the only thing you got out of everything I've said, you need to read all that again.

*by this time I have his texts memorized*

Nothing will change, so it doesn't matter how much you wanna talk about things. I haven't been happy in a long time and it wouldn't be fair to me if it takes me being unhappy for you to be happy. I don't want to live that way.

(Wtf ing and pleading from me *sigh* I know. Not my best moments....)

That house is not mine, and whether you want to believe it or not,  it isn't yours either. If your parents were to both suddenly pass, the bank will liquidate that property to recover their unpaid mortgage.  I hate to say it, but there's nothing you could do about that. It's is on paper their property and not mine or yours. And aside from the irreconcilable differences between us, that house has always irked me in some ways.  The septic system that constantly backs up, the insane amount of energy it used because you insist on keeping it sub-arctic at 68 degrees. I just don't have the desire to be there anymore.

I could put up with some things that constantly got on my nerves before, but it got to be so much more than that. And you made it really clear that you didn't want to "kiss anybody's ass in your house ". I never asked you to cow tow to my mother but you could have shown her at least a little more respect than you did. I suppose you didn't count on my relationship with her to be as strong as it is. But that in itself was a deal-breaker and you can say all you want that you love her and you're sorry now , but it's too little too late. You were being completely honest when you had that melt down,so whatever you try to say now is ineffective
*his mother told him i cursed her out. ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE*

Don't call me,  I don't feel like talking right now

That's just 1 incident. There were other times that you could have been more civil toward her than you were.

I'm not trying to argue about this. And again , that's just 1 facet of my unhappiness,  you just asked why I left just bc you don't have a job and wrecked a car. That's just 2 things I brought up. There's more to it, but you just aren't hearing it.

You felt like everything was ok because you didn't perceive that I was miserable. I've felt alone in my struggle for a long time.   Add to that the constant fatigue of not getting enough sleep on a nightly basis. I knew when we got together that you are a night owl and I thought I could handle that kind of schedule, so I accommodated you. But it hurt me. I haven't slept as good as I have in the last 3 weeks in 10 years .and it's because I don't get woken up at 330.  I see that now because I got away from that situation.  And now it's time for me to accommodate me. That may sound selfish, but that's the truth.

(Kept asking him if he loved me...if he did then we could work this out...would not tell me yes or no....but I got this.....)
I hate it when I hear " love can conquer anything "  I heard " I love you" every day in a previous relationship that ended in me almost having domestic violence on my record . You've said you live me every day too. But when you hear it and don't see true signs of it,  those words become ineffective by the day.
(No he isnt violent...another long story)

The text you sent me at midnight is a prime example of how much non-communication our relationship had endured. Just a few hours after my text about getting woke up every night , you decided to text me something you already said about 3 hours into my normal time of sleeping ,which for the last 10 years has been the same. Yet, here we are again with the same issue. So this leaves me feeling exactly the way I have felt every time I felt like I was talking to a wall. And I feel like the reason must be that you weren't listening or maybe you're indifferent to the things that inconvenience me. Either way, that's one more reason I feel the way I do. And that has nothing to do with my mother. So, you can harp on how much you didn't disrespect her all you want.  It's falling on deaf ears now.

(My phone sent him a text at midnight....one that I had actually sent at 10p.m. 🙄)
Nothing from him until September 23

I can pay Entergy Thursday if I need to.  Just need to know how much it is. I still can't get into the app bc apparently the password isn't what I thought it was

(I texted him the password, and decided to just tell him one line....I love and miss you.)

I never meant to be cruel towards you about anything. I just don't know how else to tell you, except bluntly,  what was/ is my problem.  I'm sad beyond words for the 1st time in my life, never had these feelings before. And I need to work through it somehow. Focusing alot of energy on moms place. I'm getting her house purged. You would be proud .

I sent him a quick reply on how I understood if he needed to work on some things, and that I hoped that we could work on this soon.
No reply.
I went home that evening and started looking up depression and leaving your spouse. I came across midlife crisis and it blew me away....I had almost everything checked off. Even other symptoms from reading articles (clinging to the bed almost falling off) ...the look in his eyes..etc..
I would have  put the context of my responses but I believe everyone reading this knows the content. I'm willing to answer any and all questions...
Does this sound like midlife crisis?
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« Last Edit: October 25, 2020, 08:16:34 PM by Gypzziroze »

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Hhaving a hard time with this
#19: October 26, 2020, 02:05:17 AM
Ooof, Gyp.....that brought back some post BD memories for me. Not of my h so much but of my reactions.  ::)

It is very early days in your situation and you are in shock. Which means that you might not yet be able or ready to hear some of the perspectives here. Which is normal. We have all been there.
But in case it helps, I'm going to throw a couple of thoughts into the mix.

Last question first....
All of us ask this at one time or another.
Truthfully none of us can answer that question. We don't know the history of your relationship, what your h or you were like before BD or why you both got married after years together. With time, and a little distance from events, you will figure that out for yourself.
What matters more is what you want the answer to be and why. Most of us come here thinking that if the answer is 'yes', that means what is happening will get better, that it is temporary. With time, you will probably find that the question becomes less important bc, whatever is going on with your h, you can't control or fix it anyway. And you still need to navigate the reality of his behaviour.

I'm going to invite you to consider that what your h says he thinks and feels is true.
For him.
I'm not saying it IS true or fair or reasonable. I'm not saying that he is telling you the whole truth either bc he almost certainly isn't. And I am not saying you are responsible for what he is blaming you for.....and he is certainly a pretty angry man right now. (Don't know if he was before?)
I AM saying that what he is saying feels true to him. And that, even in normal circumstances and these are not those lol, it is very frustrating and belittling to be told a hundred reasons why we should not feel or think what we feel or think. Most people react badly to that and become defensive so dig in more, don't they? So they get nastier and more aggressive, they double down.
So every time you send a loving text or letter or a logical challenge? He will see it as an attack. And tbh he no longer cares what you think or feel, only what he does. (I am telling you this bc it took me well over a year to 'get' this....I did not have a Me or this forum to tell me this post BD  :) )

So, what does that mean for what you can do?
Imho, treat him as if you are taking what he says at face value. He's unhappy and wants out. So, let him go. You may find he is surprised by that (and turns into a clinging boomerang or does  more nuts stuff), true enough, but it will help you to deal with the reality of what is going on and the inevitable practicalities of it. You can still stand if you want, you can keep your powder dry and see how things unfold for a little while. But there are no magic words or actions which will change what HE feels is HIS truth....until or unless HE changes them. And he may not so you need to find a way to get on with life anyway. Which we know probably feels impossible right now, so baby steps are fine.

Do not go to the well looking for answers or trying to tell him what you think. He doesn't care what you think right now. So, keep your thoughts and feelings away from him....share them here or with an IC or with good friends.

Treat him as if you are separated, as if he left you, as if your marriage is over. Bc right now that is how it is. It may change, but right now that is what is actually happening. And I am truly sorry for that.

It sounds as if - reading between the lines - finances might be an issue for you. Please take legal advice on your options even if you are not ready to act on it. Please assume that for the foreseeable future, or at least post-January, you are going to have to figure out how to support yourself financially and keep a roof over your head. Much better to plan for the worst and hope for the best. Jmo.

I'm sorry bc I'm pretty sure that none of this is what you want to hear... ::)
But time and events will show you more of what is going on and, whatever choices you make now to get through this terrible time, please remember that you can change your mind and adapt as you go.

But for the moment, I would stop trying to persuade him of anything, stop initiating any contact other than about real emergencies or legal/financial things and focus solely on what you need to do to cope with how things are without any input from him......you can be civil, of course you can, but you need to draw back from the rollercoaster right now. Which practically speaking means accepting some painful current realities, probably having less interactions with him and putting some boundaries in place to take care of your own needs.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#20: October 26, 2020, 03:25:14 AM
A lot of this is pure MLC script. I'm going to translate for you.......

Today was an ok day...I saw that meme above early this morning and I guess it spoke to me more than I realized. Funny as hell,  yet sad in the same.
As much as I've read about this,  I'm 99% certain that is what is happening with him. But there is this little voice nagging at me... what if I did do something that made him leave... what if I would have put more effort into my appearance during covid... (he didn't mention that,  it's just my thoughts)... the what ifs are killing me. Yet there is this voice that is screaming at me hell no... you really arent the bad guy in this scenario.
Some of the things I heard from the BD text throughout...

August 18th - I've been unhappy for a while. I've been able to deal with the little things that make me unhappy, but lately everything is just dragging my heart through the gutter. I can't even explain how hurt I've been and it's just got worse. All I ever do is try to keep everything together for everyone else. And it doesn't work.ever. so now, I'm just trying to keep me together . I don't expect anybody to understand, but that's just the way it is and that's all I have to say at this point .
It's all about me. I've been a hero and you have never understood.  I've been hurt (when and how are the questions to ask here) I am such a victim of all the circumstances and I deserve your pity

*After my son talked to him at his mothers house and he told him he wasnt leaving me:*
August 20-We will talk once I figure out how I am going to say the things I want to say without causing more drama. Stop worrying about this. We will talk soon
I actually have no idea why I am doing what I am doing, I have no genuine justification but I feel unhappy and it has to be someone else doing this to me - so I won't explain because I actually have no idea what the heck I am doing. I am enjoying the drama by the way because it is feeding my need to escape and justifying it.

*I sent him an article on stonewalling,  and the next morning I woke to this text-*
August 24-That's a good article and I hope you read it too. But, I'm not interested in "working things out ". I just want to talk about belongings. I want to know if I will be able to get the things I owned before I moved to Milton.
This is your problem not mine.  On the surface it is a well written article but it doesn't apply to me. It's good though that you are seeing how you have behaved and caused me to do what I am doing

*My son texted him that evening telling him that he needed to at least explain why he was doing what he was doing....of course there is begging and pleading on my part...too much to put here for sure...*

August 24- It first started when we had that first big blowout while ric was visiting for a semester. I was going to leave then, but the boy's asked me to stay. So I stayed for the boys that time.
*(The first argument we ever had...January 2014...we've been together since october 2010)*
I know that all we have ever done is argue oh actually no we haven't but I do remember something and am going to blame why I feel the way I do on that - because telling you I've been feeling this for ages I am justified in picking reasons out of the air to justify why I am a victim

Right around the 3rd big blowout I got a storage and started moving little things to it, but then the flood came and I would have felt like a complete d!ck leaving then. So the flood was the reason I stayed the second time.
*(Werent arguing about anything that I can remember and I've racked my brain...so dont really know what that is about)*
So you see we have been arguing all the time.  I have done my best to stay and I have been acting sneakily but you see the flood came and forced me to stay here - I am such a victim.......

I hoped getting married would change things,  but I realized that it hasn't the night you insisted on risking your life driving the avalanche backwards home from the store while you were way too fuct to be driving . Just about caught the God dam truck on fire. It was almost that point that   I gave up trying to do nice $h!te for you, bc you totally pissed away the gobs of time and money I put into getting that firetrucking thing going.
*Long story about the truck incident, it's totally not how he portrayed it here...I'll tell that story if I have too. This incident was 1 month after we got married..April  2019.*
I would now like to rewrite history so that we should have never got married.  Oh BTW - I equate our marriage with the truck destruction.  I worked so hard making it so nice and pretty - I am such a victim and the crashing of the truck really hurt me so that's the reason I have to leave.

Next, I finally got a 4-Runner! I wanted one for a while. I had that $h!te set up too. firetrucking AC and everything.  But,,well firetruck that one too.That's when I gave up doing firetruck all.I don't know if you noticed that or not.
*NEVER expressed interest in a 1990 something 4runnner before...in fact this one was being given to us and he asked me if it was something I would drive, if i didn't want it we would tell his brother no.*

YOu see - you IGNORED me -  Pity me.  I had dreams too you know - I am such a victim

Yeah, I'm still God dam salty about that firetrucking $h!te.

I couldn't leave then, bc you were crippled from the firetrucking accident. What a d!ck I would have been right ?
Every time I have ever tried to complain to you, it gets minimized. It's futile arguing with you.
I know you want to blame my mom for all of this, but the way things wound up only compounded previous things and pushed me off the cliff. I can hear the contempt you have for her in your voice.
Yet again it's your fault that I couldn't leave.  Your accident made me stay.  I wanted to leave but everyone else would have hated me if I left and so I wanted to be seen as the good guy but that forced me to stay. You may have even done this deliberately because you knew how i was feeling and so planned to make me sta by having the accident - I am such a victim

This was the last thing he sent that evening. I sent him long letter texts...explaining away...trying to reason with him...etc..silence. until this next one...

August 28th- A marriage is supposed to be a partnership. That's true. It takes effort on both sides. I was barely breathing between working and trying to have any time off for the past however long it was.But living there got me to the point where I could never work enough for every little thing that comes up. I felt like I was under water. With no life raft. And I'm tired of being a debt slave. I don't want to die poor. And I can't have a comfortable life if I'm the only one always working. Yes, you've had jobs here and there, and when I tried to mention a full time  job I heard of for you, there was always a reason why you couldn't or wouldn't do it. I could have got you a few jobs,  bank teller job one time, but you didn't even want to inquire about it. Then got pissed off when I pushed the issue. I don't hate my job, but I don't love  working every day either, it's just a choice I made.
I hoped when we got married that you would start  doing something regular to enhance our income and livelihood. I get it that the avalanche was down from a botched repair. But you were never without a vehicle,  you could have chosen to go do something.   Especially since we both got in all that trouble. Then there was me mentioning something about spending your stimulus check on that pool and you got rather pissed about that. In short, it's clear to me that we have different ideas about how things should be.
Pity me _ I worked hard (probably did) but that money I earned was for me and not you.  I wanted to be rich and being married to you stopped that.  I was forced to spend my money on our marriage and even though you might have worked I was still the hero here. I am such a victim
*By the way...yes, I work, and I spent $120 on the pool...he forgets he wanted the pool up and running as well) then nothing...of course there was pleading with him to be reasonable etc...*

September 4- Ive thought long enough about this now and here is where I stand.I don't want to be mean or rude about any of this, but you need to understand that I'm not living there again. That's off the table. We need to be clear about what happens next. I would like to be able to get all my stuff from there, and I know it will take a while. So, I'm planning to start getting some things as soon as I have some time. I realize that you likely don't have much income or a regular job. I hope I'm wrong about that though. If you are agreeable about letting me get my things, I am willing to continue letting you collect monthly's from Thorn until January, which is when I will probably move back into my house. I will also pay your electric bill until then as well. And you can have my income tax return once I sort out whatever bull$h!te is going on with it. I want to be fair, but you need to be fair about it too because if I'm not allowed to go and get my things, then this offer is null and void. Please,  I just want to move forward with this as peacefully as possible.


*I asked him why he didn't want to be with me anymore and didnt I at least deserve an answer*
* Also, told him in a letter text that I had found a regular job...that one finally contacted me after my initial application in June *

I think I've given you enough reasons .

(I texted back "Because I didnt have a job since covid lockdown started and I wrecked the 4runner bc the balljoint failed?!")

If that's the only thing you got out of everything I've said, you need to read all that again.

I'm exhausted and run out of excuses now. I will be a good boy and rescuer by making sure you are covered financially but I want to run and run; I don't want to face what I have done so I think if I just run I can be justified in being a victim
*by this time I have his texts memorized*

Nothing will change, so it doesn't matter how much you wanna talk about things. I haven't been happy in a long time and it wouldn't be fair to me if it takes me being unhappy for you to be happy. I don't want to live that way.
Pity me - I am such a victim.......

(Wtf ing and pleading from me *sigh* I know. Not my best moments....)

That house is not mine, and whether you want to believe it or not,  it isn't yours either. If your parents were to both suddenly pass, the bank will liquidate that property to recover their unpaid mortgage.  I hate to say it, but there's nothing you could do about that. It's is on paper their property and not mine or yours. And aside from the irreconcilable differences between us, that house has always irked me in some ways.  The septic system that constantly backs up, the insane amount of energy it used because you insist on keeping it sub-arctic at 68 degrees. I just don't have the desire to be there anymore.

I could put up with some things that constantly got on my nerves before, but it got to be so much more than that. And you made it really clear that you didn't want to "kiss anybody's ass in your house ". I never asked you to cow tow to my mother but you could have shown her at least a little more respect than you did. I suppose you didn't count on my relationship with her to be as strong as it is. But that in itself was a deal-breaker and you can say all you want that you love her and you're sorry now , but it's too little too late. You were being completely honest when you had that melt down,so whatever you try to say now is ineffective
*his mother told him i cursed her out. ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE*

Don't call me,  I don't feel like talking right now

That's just 1 incident. There were other times that you could have been more civil toward her than you were.

I'm not trying to argue about this. And again , that's just 1 facet of my unhappiness,  you just asked why I left just bc you don't have a job and wrecked a car. That's just 2 things I brought up. There's more to it, but you just aren't hearing it.

You felt like everything was ok because you didn't perceive that I was miserable. I've felt alone in my struggle for a long time.   Add to that the constant fatigue of not getting enough sleep on a nightly basis. I knew when we got together that you are a night owl and I thought I could handle that kind of schedule, so I accommodated you. But it hurt me. I haven't slept as good as I have in the last 3 weeks in 10 years .and it's because I don't get woken up at 330.  I see that now because I got away from that situation.  And now it's time for me to accommodate me. That may sound selfish, but that's the truth.

Sorry - too much self pity to even bother explaining.... I am such a VICTIM

(Kept asking him if he loved me...if he did then we could work this out...would not tell me yes or no....but I got this.....)
I hate it when I hear " love can conquer anything "  I heard " I love you" every day in a previous relationship that ended in me almost having domestic violence on my record . You've said you live me every day too. But when you hear it and don't see true signs of it,  those words become ineffective by the day.
(No he isnt violent...another long story)
If I rewrite history - it will justify why I am doing what I am doing.

The text you sent me at midnight is a prime example of how much non-communication our relationship had endured. Just a few hours after my text about getting woke up every night , you decided to text me something you already said about 3 hours into my normal time of sleeping ,which for the last 10 years has been the same. Yet, here we are again with the same issue. So this leaves me feeling exactly the way I have felt every time I felt like I was talking to a wall. And I feel like the reason must be that you weren't listening or maybe you're indifferent to the things that inconvenience me. Either way, that's one more reason I feel the way I do. And that has nothing to do with my mother. So, you can harp on how much you didn't disrespect her all you want.  It's falling on deaf ears now.

(My phone sent him a text at midnight....one that I had actually sent at 10p.m. 🙄)
Nothing from him until September 23

I can pay Entergy Thursday if I need to.  Just need to know how much it is. I still can't get into the app bc apparently the password isn't what I thought it was

(I texted him the password, and decided to just tell him one line....I love and miss you.)

I never meant to be cruel towards you about anything. I just don't know how else to tell you, except bluntly,  what was/ is my problem.  I'm sad beyond words for the 1st time in my life, never had these feelings before. And I need to work through it somehow. Focusing alot of energy on moms place. I'm getting her house purged. You would be proud .

I sent him a quick reply on how I understood if he needed to work on some things, and that I hoped that we could work on this soon.
No reply.
I went home that evening and started looking up depression and leaving your spouse. I came across midlife crisis and it blew me away....I had almost everything checked off. Even other symptoms from reading articles (clinging to the bed almost falling off) ...the look in his eyes..etc..
I would have  put the context of my responses but I believe everyone reading this knows the content. I'm willing to answer any and all questions...
Does this sound like midlife crisis?

In short YES.  Full of justifications that change and move with the wind.  Note how his language is all about him - how he feels and how he needs and wants to be the hero.
I stopped translating because the message from him is still the same - He feels sorry for himself - he believes he is the victim who has been hard done by and he is the one who is entitled to live his life the way he wants
What is important for you to learn is the pursuit and distance dance, and to back off from sending any further texts or askign any questions.

When you ask an MLCer any question other than the time or day you will never get the answer you seek. It will be batted back to you in all shapes and form. It will never be an honest answer.

That said we are all 50 % responsible for what happens in our marriage but he is 100% responsible for his contribution to it and his subsequent actions - the way that you are too.

Bear in mind too that there is alway some element of truth in what they say. For example my H complained at BD that I saw him just as a handy man. For 24 years of our marriage before BD he would do all the DIY (willingly and because he didn't want to pay anyone else and he was pretty good at it too)  It mattered little to him that was on him and that I would often suggest bringing in other people to help but he refused.   
It was about 6 months after being with OW that he had the audacity to complain to me that she saw him as a handy man only.  I laughed out loud and told him that that was on him.  I knew then that, whilst I could see how he might have a modicum of truth - it was his desire to be hero that he needed to resolve and not for me to receive any blame. 
Now we have been in reconnection for nearly 3 years and he will still do things but if I now say I'm doing it (because I learned to do quite a bit) or I get someone in - he doesn't complain.  I told him I have no expectations of him helping out and if he chooses to do so - it's all on him and he can blame no-one. He gets it.

But this is nearly 8 years on from BD. 

MLC takes time and I recommend that you distance yourself as much as possible to give him the space he needs.  Go dark and don't initiate any conversation or ask questions unless they are really important or urgent.
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« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 04:38:05 AM by Songanddance »
BD march 2013
Stay at home MLCer
OW for 3.5 years - finishing Autumn 2016
Reconnection started 2017 and still going with no sign of reconciliation.

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Hhaving a hard time with this
#21: October 26, 2020, 03:53:23 AM
Gypzziroze

I do have some comments to make. but very little time at the moment . I have included a link for you to read and decide if it could have some value for you right now. I will be back later

http://healinginfidelity.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-180-for-hurt-spouses.html
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Hhaving a hard time with this
#22: October 26, 2020, 04:13:02 AM
Song is, of course, quite right  :)
Lots of victim nonsense, sounds like a teenager, no taking of responsibility for his actions at all. Which of course is the pay off for victimhood......Very script  :)
And I hope you can see that it is a time to hold two opposing truths......that something is not true just bc your h says so AND that it is pointless (and potentially damaging) to try to persuade him to have a different truth. Let him find out for himself......or not.
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#23: October 26, 2020, 06:36:59 AM
Gypzz I agree with everyone.

I read your post and was thinking, yes...yes..yes..he was checking all the boxes!
He seems like a classic case of MLC to me.  Pity party an all.  ::)

I would stop telling him you love him, it only irritates them.  He doesn't want to hear that when he's not coming back.  You already told him that and he knows you don't want a D.
I would also stop having relationship talks with him altogether.  They do no good and it only feels like pressure to them.  Maybe try to keep the conversations light and friendly.  It may help.

Sometime the best response it.."I'm sorry you feel that way."  No matter what he comes up with. 
It tells him you are listening and heard him, but you are neither agreeing nor disagreeing.

I have a question.  When he says he just wants the stuff he came into this with, what exactly is that?
No matter what he thinks is his, they are marital assets now (unless it's something major like a house).  Marital assets get divided equally.

Have you had any conversation with a lawyer?  Just so they can tell you what your rights are, or what to expect.  It's not a bad idea.

I'm so sorry you are going through this.  It's very hard, so be gentle with yourself.
You did nothing to cause this.

Hugs
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Hhaving a hard time with this
#24: October 26, 2020, 07:19:38 AM

It is very early days in your situation and you are in shock. Which means that you might not yet be able or ready to hear some of the perspectives here.

I do believe that I was in shock...still a bit actually. Knowing that his actions, verbiage and symptoms are the effect of something going on inside HIM, actually helps me wrap my head around the insanity of the situation. I am one that can handle hard truths if there is an air of facts surrounding it, so although I may not like what I may hear, I appreciate what I am being told. So believe me, I am open to fresh perspectives. 😊

Which is normal. We have all been there.
But in case it helps, I'm going to throw a couple of thoughts into the mix.
Yes, your words help. Did I mention already I admire your way with words? 😊

I'm going to invite you to consider that what your h says he thinks and feels is true.
For him.
I'm not saying it IS true or fair or reasonable. I'm not saying that he is telling you the whole truth either bc he almost certainly isn't. And I am not saying you are responsible for what he is blaming you for.....and he is certainly a pretty angry man right now. (Don't know if he was before?)

No, he has never been an angry person, and I do believe that is the reason why I was able to pinpoint his denial and anger stage. I didn't realize that I was walking on eggshells roughly December to BD, but thinking back on my own thought process and what I was doing,  I absolutely was. He had the most insane reaction to me wrecking a vehicle, that after a week of him treating me like garbage I told him that I didn't need someone blaming me and treating me as such,  that I needed my husband to show a little compassion and love for what could have been potentially the death of his wife. It was a bad wreck,  and mechanical failure was the issue. Something that the salvage yard guy even told him,  but he refused to believe it and still blamed me (even after his best friend told him the same 🙄)My parents noticed his behavior and didnt say anything to me until the night I had the panic attack. Other snaps were apparent as well during this time.


I AM saying that what he is saying feels true to him. And that, even in normal circumstances and these are not those lol, it is very frustrating and belittling to be told a hundred reasons why we should not feel or think what we feel or think. Most people react badly to that and become defensive so dig in more, don't they? So they get nastier and more aggressive, they double down.

Oooohhhh yes 😳

So every time you send a loving text or letter or a logical challenge? He will see it as an attack. And tbh he no longer cares what you think or feel, only what he does. (I am telling you this bc it took me well over a year to 'get' this....I did not have a Me or this forum to tell me this post BD  :) )

I gathered that in the first few texts he sent, when it was no longer "we cant have a better life"....it was "I" cant have a better life...etc"

Do not go to the well looking for answers or trying to tell him what you think. He doesn't care what you think right now. So, keep your thoughts and feelings away from him....share them here or with an IC or with good friends.

I've started journaling,  and find it helps a little, but my papers haven't bounced a different perspective...yet. My friends that know what's going on have been the best anyone could ask for,  and of course this site and forum have been extremely helpful 😊

It sounds as if - reading between the lines - finances might be an issue for you.

Yes, they are.  Pre-covid we were finally starting to do well,  then the universe decided to have her own version of BD.... since then I have landed a few jobs and perhaps a steady one when I get back to my state from working this job.

But for the moment, I would stop trying to persuade him of anything, stop initiating any contact other than about real emergencies or legal/financial things and focus solely on what you need to do to cope with how things are without any input from him......you can be civil, of course you can, but you need to draw back from the rollercoaster right now. Which practically speaking means accepting some painful current realities, probably having less interactions with him and putting some boundaries in place to take care of your own needs.

I actually stopped initiating contact after I sent him the "support" letter. I have responded to him when he did send text about the hurricane etc...and my response was just facts about the house and a statement that I hoped his mom would be doing better in the falling department.  No relationship talk, miss you talk, asking anything...etc. It's back to no contact from him again and although it's only been 2 weeks it feels like a lifetime.  I do want to add here, just for the sake of adage that the day after the hurricane hit,  I noticed that he was on facebook about every 30 minutes. I know he wasn't talking to anyone (I have his computer and therefore access to his facebook and google account) I hadn't put anything on my facebook about being ok or any damage that was incurred. The first hurricane hit about a week and a half after he Houdini'd, and i did post about how my situation was. He didn't text or call for the first one and I had this nagging feeling that he didn't because he already knew how I was from my posts. So this hurricane I answered no one.. didn't comment, like, share,  nothing. I watched his fb behavior and after about 5 or 6 hours of him popping on and off, he sent me a text with the statements. After about an hour passed I texted him back with my own statements.  I noticed after that, he didn't log onto facebook for about a week.
Sometimes it's the little wins.
By the way, I've been dark on facebook since BD. Just like he hasnt posted anything, I have not either.
Thank you again for your words 😊

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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#25: October 26, 2020, 08:06:16 AM


In short YES.  Full of justifications that change and move with the wind.  Note how his language is all about him - how he feels and how he needs and wants to be the hero.

Yes, that was the first thing that I noticed in his texts....everything was "I" ... "me"...etc. Not the usual speak of "our"..."we"...etc.

What is important for you to learn is the pursuit and distance dance, and to back off from sending any further texts or askign any questions.
You are absolutely right,  and I have backed off from sending texts and asking anything...especially since I read that it was more harm than good. Being counterintuitive is a lesson unto itself...


Bear in mind too that there is alway some element of truth in what they say.
Yes, I do understand that there is an element of truth in his words. And,  I'm not trying to make excuses, but finding a job in the middle of a pandemic was futile. Some of the things he mentioned,  we had talked about,  and even the job he mentioned I didn't qualify for! Because I did inquire about it. I cant make a degree in business finance appear from thin air, jeese ... basically what he told me his reasons were, was things that were resolved as far as I knew and he made me believe. They really werent big issues...We were having extreme financial issues,  that's true,  but the way he portrays it it sounds as if I was sitting on my ass on the couch and eating bonbons while watching him be a slave.

MLC takes time and I recommend that you distance yourself as much as possible to give him the space he needs.  Go dark and don't initiate any conversation or ask questions unless they are really important or urgent.

Thank you for your words.  I'm doing my best to do so.  It's truly hard as I'm sure everyone here knows so well... but I'll push through it best I can 😊
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« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 09:22:45 AM by Gypzziroze »

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Hhaving a hard time with this
#26: October 26, 2020, 08:08:45 AM
Gypzziroze

I do have some comments to make. but very little time at the moment . I have included a link for you to read and decide if it could have some value for you right now. I will be back later

http://healinginfidelity.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-180-for-hurt-spouses.html

Thank you for the link. After reading it I realized that I have read it before... but it reiterated everything I need to hear again. But please,  continue when you have a chance 😊
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Hhaving a hard time with this
#27: October 26, 2020, 08:16:53 AM
Song is, of course, quite right  :)
Lots of victim nonsense, sounds like a teenager, no taking of responsibility for his actions at all. Which of course is the pay off for victimhood......Very script  :)
And I hope you can see that it is a time to hold two opposing truths......that something is not true just bc your h says so AND that it is pointless (and potentially damaging) to try to persuade him to have a different truth. Let him find out for himself......or not.
Absolutely...its taking me a moment to realize that what he says isn't true, 90% of it anyway. There are little truths,  but blown WAY out of proportion. I read somewhere to stop defending yourself when you know something to be other than what they are saying.  I know what our marriage was like...and it was never short on love. The statement he made about him not seeing signs of it was absolutely ridiculous in my eyes...we were first loves at 15, in high school, and finally reconnected 10 years ago. Lived together since that day, basically. He knows I have loved him my whole life...and I mean KNOWS...so I wanted to shake him when I read that 🤬
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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#28: October 26, 2020, 08:58:35 AM
Gypzzi, my response might be a little different from the others. I don’t think it will be much “wrong” but just another angle or perspective, as we all encounter these life events a little differently.

I agree with others in that reading your h’s words brought back a lot of stuff for me too. What I want to say here is that it brought up the stuff that was almost or seemed like, in retrospect, the preface to the harder stuff that came later. So I want to assure you that it does get pretty weird and it’s important for you to consider your own feelings and needs and self-care first, now and early. I agree with others too that right now it’s so fresh and you are in a time of emotional shock. Gird up with journaling here and offline, time with your best and safe people, and engage a therapist if needed or wanted, to help you through this grief. See it for what it is: a big unwanted loss, a sharp change in your emotional environment and rhythms. Your loved and trusted person has unaccountably changed and the shifted dynamics — both of the relationship and of your own thinking/feeling inner processes — will take some time to sort out, process, get accustomed to.

I’m sorry that there is never really a quick fix. You can quicken your own adaptation or resiliency, though, if you will just unhook your inherent or routine expressions to him and turn all care to you yourself, to your kids, to your home and finances, and to the future of any dreams or goals you may have had before or independently of him. Go for your own known comforts and know that as much and as deeply as we all have loved our spouses, the spouse was only ever one component of love, comforts, or enjoyments. Really we have what we need whether the spouse is near or true or staying or not.

It is not a fun time. The not fun can last a LONG time. Build in now, for your own individual comforts and care. He’s drawn a line, like they all do, and built a wall, like they all do, and it makes it none of our business to be picking at and drawing out the stones or bricks or sending doves of peace with olive branches over those walls.

Our doves are not wanted, Gypzzi. Keep the birds of your heart safely.

I measured my love messages to my h, finally, and only ever sent them again when I knew I could be ok if they were shot down, gored, or just lost. There were a few periods over the years where I knew I could send a whole flock all at once and that he would shamefully ignore them, but they’d still be there if he chose or needed to look. It’s a fine line but/and there may come a time when you know you are sending only unconditional love and don’t need any response at all.

What I want you to know from my perspective of only 1, is that I ventured the best of messages to him periodically — and I know he has appreciated them on the other side of his high wall — but he still has been gone 3.5 years with another woman, and despite occasional short bursts of unexpected contact from him, our situation shows no signs of resolving.

So the other important message here is that you are well to find a level of acceptance, as quickly as you can. He’s drawn a line and built a wall. MLC or not, sometimes decisions are made that take a great deal of time and solitary thought to unmake again. It’s his decision, and we have to concede that no matter what the agreements used to be, they are out the window for now, and :/ that’s his right. None of us like it, but it’s the other’s right to live as they will, as long as they do. Just as it is ours.

The strange part for me, reading your h, is that he writes at length and does seem self-aware at least in that he can express how he feels and (if also disputably and rewriting or embellishing history a bit or a lot) can tell you why or when he feels that started. My own h doesn’t do that; he stays very superficial in his thinking, memory, and language. My h’s written language has all but disappeared, to the point that I have thought many times that he must have had a hidden stroke or series of undiagnosed brain events; it’s like he can’t utilize that brain function anymore. So even if others are saying it’s script or MLC, I saw it as a gift last night to read how thorough and not exactly monstering your h has been. He’s blaming you for a lot, and some of it does look oversimplified or petty to me, but it does sound like he’s making an effort to tell himself and his concerns or sadness to you.

He’s still sharing his feelings with you, I mean. And I don’t know if it’s ultimately going to be of help or healthful to have that dialogue. I do recognize it as willingness, and as a former would-be marital counselor, at this read I would not say this isn’t reconcilable; he’s willing to say his present perceptions or truth.

If it hurts or confounds you, though, it’s REALLY WORTHWHILE AND VALUABLE for you to establish a boundary for your own self-care and healing, right away. You love him so much and it shows; you do have to love yourself now foremost, though, in order to get through whatever this is.

The stuff about money and working, he doesn’t seem cognizant of your own efforts or facts or needs. Rather than argue or justify or self-defend, maybe just observe that in him to yourself and make sure that *you* know the value of every good you have made or done.

The stuff about his mother, I am so sorry but my own experience made me scoff a bit and call that a pure mama’s boy. Whatever and whyever that has come up for you both, and I freely admit I am kind of a sh!tty daughter-in-law — I believe in spousal sovereignty before loyalty to one’s parents — that is either a scenario where you were crass somehow to a woman who was giving you familial love, familiarity, and respect, or else it was/is at most extreme a situation where the son and mother were still exhibiting a dynamic that should have naturally shifted in his adolescence or young adulthood, and definitely once he had chosen and married a wife.

I got on beautifully and sincerely with h’s parents, but they were really old when I met them and they had been through six decades of their own marriage and several decades of the marriages of three of their four adult children. They knew what influence they had in our lives and historically on him and they really endeavored to give us room and also much very experienced loving support.

Before that and in a previous marriage, even sincerely and with the very best of intention and loving, with other men’s parents (and so, with those men), I could do absolutely nothing right. EVER.

So if you have any history of being a scapegoat, a black sheep, or other cast out, right now is a good time to turn focus GENTLY *and privately*, away from communicating with him or thinking about why is he like this or why or what did he mesh when he said that, and toward the truths of your own inner and wider experience.

I say this because his side of the story isn’t the one that defines you or your history or who you will be in the future. On some level or even only fractionally, his side of the story will confound you and hang you up. You need to keep living Yourself forward, even in tears and tired and aggrieved. It isn’t even going to be a matter of strength sometimes as much as it will just be necessity. It’s a challenge but we here all know you can do it, and that some days, you can even sing and soar as you do.

I am so sorry you are subjected to this new strange unpleasantness. I know it isn’t fun or ok, and that it hurts. But he’s not the first to fall out of character, and sadly will not be the last. Midlife passages are confusing and hard, but many of life’s passages are.

You are not alone. If journaling here or on paper or in words doesn’t quite feel like enough, explore adding a visual component: collage, drawing, photography, etcetera. Sometimes a picture is worth more than a thousand words, to the brain that is trying so hard to process all of this. Getting the images and symbolic together in a way where we can see them at once, can relieve some of the confusion or ache of the mentalization or tough stuff of verbalizing.

I’m rooting for you. I started writing here a lot so that I wouldn’t send my doves over his wall. It’s safe ground here, and full of wise nurturing and good care. Sending loves to you.
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Re: Having a hard time with this
#29: October 26, 2020, 09:16:51 AM

I would stop telling him you love him, it only irritates them.  He doesn't want to hear that when he's not coming back.  You already told him that and he knows you don't want a D.
I would also stop having relationship talks with him altogether.  They do no good and it only feels like pressure to them.  Maybe try to keep the conversations light and friendly.  It may help.

I'm beginning to get the gist of this.  At the time I couldn't understand why he was just so angry towards me when all I kept doing was telling him that I loved him and didn't understand wtf just happened...makes this nonsense sound ...sensible? Lack of better wording lol. After a point I realized in my confusion that Iwas just a broken record,  and ceased that immediately. When he did text,  I wasn't rude or enter whatever phrase here,  I was just factual and offered sympathy for his mother (even tho I'm extremely pissed at what she said...and now thinking about it,  I'm not even sure she said that. She could have very well told him that I was cursing the sewage pump out (which I was tbh).... nothing was directed at her.... although the situation called for it,  I still had that respect for her.  Ugh)

Sometime the best response it.."I'm sorry you feel that way."  No matter what he comes up with. 
It tells him you are listening and heard him, but you are neither agreeing nor disagreeing.
I need to ingrain this in my head in the event that he does contact me again and wants to argue or validate his reasoning,  thank you!

I have a question.  When he says he just wants the stuff he came into this with, what exactly is that?
No matter what he thinks is his, they are marital assets now (unless it's something major like a house).  Marital assets get divided equally.

Every thing he is talking about is exactly that. The stuff he moved in with. He left EVERYTHING here...clothes, musical equipment, a P.O.S. car that he was working on preflood 2016, since then he hadnt touched it...tools ...name it. When he said that,  I had the nagging feeling that he was trying to erase the last 10 years if our life together...impossible buddy.

Have you had any conversation with a lawyer?  Just so they can tell you what your rights are, or what to expect.  It's not a bad idea.
No, I haven't. If he wants a divorce,  he will have to be the one to dismantle our marriage.  I have lawyer friends if I need council,  but at this time I'm adopting a wait and see attitude. He cant file for at least 6 months...

I'm so sorry you are going through this.  It's very hard, so be gentle with yourself.
You did nothing to cause this.
Thank you,  it is hard and I go back and forth with everything,  but ive strapped my big girl panties on and just focusing on getting the house repaired, etc..😊

Hugs
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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#30: October 26, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
That's good to hear you have lawyer friends you can talk to, if needed.

I agree with you, sit back and see what he does, sometimes they talk but do nothing.  Sometimes they don't really know what they want.
If in the event he does want a D, let him do it with no help from you.
I made it clear to my H, this is not what I want but if you feel you need to do this I understand. I won't fight you but I will make sure I am protecting myself, financially.

But this is pretty early on so give him time and space, to work through this. 

In the meantime, I agree with the others, make your life the best you can.
He could be in this for a long time, Gypzz.   Don't waste good years of your life, live them.
I wish after BD I had taken a 2 year vacation.  lol  I wouldn't have missed much and it would have been a lot more fun.   :)

Big Hug
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#31: October 26, 2020, 10:12:28 AM

 My h’s written language has all but disappeared, to the point that I have thought many times that he must have had a hidden stroke or series of undiagnosed brain events
My mother thought he had a stroke or a brain tumor because this was so out of character for him.I was beginning to wonder myself to be honest 😳

He’s blaming you for a lot, and some of it does look oversimplified or petty to me, but it does sound like he’s making an effort to tell himself and his concerns or sadness to you.
When he wrote the first text to me, about how he felt his heart had been dragged through the gutter,
I agonized for weeks over what I could have done to make him feel that way. I could not come up with anything,  because simply put,  I had been trying everything in my power to de-stress him and our financial situation.  The next text where he told me that he was sad beyond words for the first time in his life, had me worried...so much I started researching depression and leaving your spouse. That's when I came across mid life.  I looked at those texts as if he was trying to reach out to me in some way, and even though I know im still in shock and never felt a hurt like this before,  all I could think of was what I could do to help him.  However,  I did not make this known to him, even in my "support" text letter I sent him, to which I didn't expect a reply,
and didnt get one.  I wanted him to have something to read and re-read, if that is something that they do. 


He’s still sharing his feelings with you, I mean. And I don’t know if it’s ultimately going to be of help or healthful to have that dialogue. I do recognize it as willingness, and as a former would-be marital counselor, at this read I would not say this isn’t reconcilable; he’s willing to say his present perceptions or truth.

I'm on the fence about this as well, but if he decides to have a dialog with me,  I do believe that I can be strong enough to withstand what may or may not come.  I do know it is too early to tell, I get that, and right now, I have to gather my strength to whatever may come.

If it hurts or confounds you, though, it’s REALLY WORTHWHILE AND VALUABLE for you to establish a boundary for your own self-care and healing, right away. You love him so much and it shows; you do have to love yourself now foremost, though, in order to get through whatever this is.

I do love him, and I always will, regardless of what happens here on out. The one thing that I noticed is that he would not tell me he didnt love me, or that he does. My son, when he went over to his mothers house to talk to him, asked him if he loved me. My son told me that my H looked at him like he was crazy and said "Yes, I'll always love her" ....but he also told my son that night that he wasnt leaving too.

The stuff about money and working, he doesn’t seem cognizant of your own efforts or facts or needs. Rather than argue or justify or self-defend, maybe just observe that in him to yourself and make sure that *you* know the value of every good you have made or done.

Yes, for a moment in time, I was really questioning this.  During CoVid-19 I threw myself into getting the house finished from the flood in 2016... things that we both didnt have time to do BECAUSE WE WERE BOTH WORKING! 🙄🤔

The stuff about his mother, I am so sorry but my own experience made me scoff a bit and call that a pure mama’s boy.
I do believe this more than ever now...

I believe in spousal sovereignty before loyalty to one’s parents —
THIS...he does/did too. He actually told me not to let her bully me in my house....so the ONE time I blow my own lid because of everything I was holding in, this happens. ...and no, I didn't direct it at her even though I should have. I even write an apology letter to her which she showed him. Pretty funny story of how I found that out, but I digress.

 that is either a scenario where you were crass somehow to a woman who was giving you familial love, familiarity, and respect, or else it was/is at most extreme a situation where the son and mother were still exhibiting a dynamic that should have naturally shifted in his adolescence or young adulthood, and definitely once he had chosen and married a wife.

She moved into our house...and I do believe she was overstepping boundaries. After I insisted that she not do my "chores" she would,  and then get butthurt if I re-folded towels and rearranged the dishwasher. Yes, I am extremely OCD and she is borderline hoarder and messy as hell. My H knew this and so did I, so I really tried to not complain etc...but then I started noticing little things that she would do on purpose to annoy me. Gosh....that's a whole other thread lol We did get along for the most part, but I made myself scarce working outside most of the time.
 

I’m rooting for you. I started writing here a lot so that I wouldn’t send my doves over his wall. It’s safe ground here, and full of wise nurturing and good care. Sending loves to you.
Thank you...I am finding everyones words helpful and comforting 💞
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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#32: October 26, 2020, 10:16:41 AM
That's good to hear you have lawyer friends you can talk to, if needed.

I agree with you, sit back and see what he does, sometimes they talk but do nothing.  Sometimes they don't really know what they want.
If in the event he does want a D, let him do it with no help from you.
I made it clear to my H, this is not what I want but if you feel you need to do this I understand. I won't fight you but I will make sure I am protecting myself, financially.

But this is pretty early on so give him time and space, to work through this. 

In the meantime, I agree with the others, make your life the best you can.
He could be in this for a long time, Gypzz.   Don't waste good years of your life, live them.
I wish after BD I had taken a 2 year vacation.  lol  I wouldn't have missed much and it would have been a lot more fun.   :)

Big Hug

Thanks 😊 Right now just imagining him in a mental asylum, not able to talk.  Dont know if that's going to help or not...but the shock treatment therapy is a fun visual😳🙄🤣
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Hhaving a hard time with this
#33: October 26, 2020, 06:19:43 PM
Many believe ( including me) that a MLC is a result of childhood trauma that has not been resolved.  Certainly it is far more complex than can be explained in a sentence or two, but it is a theory that certainly is true in my marriage/situation.  As a result of years and years of "wearing a mask" ,  "acting" like someone they truly are not or trauma coming buried in the subconscious bubbling to the surface ...it is well and truly Nothing to do with you .  No matter what he says ...it is NOT about you.   This is an inner discontent, a personal crisis inside of him that he MUST work thru ..it is HIS journey . You did not cause and no matter what you do, what you say, how you look or any other tactic to change it....you cannot. 

My husband has a very traumatic background ..some of what happened to him I only discovered when he went into crisis.  We were married 28 years , 5 kids and decided to visit his father while we were in Florida. He had not seen his father in 10 or 15 years . Within 6 months of that visit with his father , my husband had an affair, left the marriage, abandoned his family, quit a high paying job and was looking to move to another town.  I am told some type of subconscious "trigger" from seeing his extremely abusive father started his unravelling. And yes, he blamed me for things that happened BEFORE we were ever married ( that he never mentioned before) , had been trying to leave me for years,   had not been happy or loved me for over 10 years  and on and on and on. And off he went to the land of OZ.  Although I did not know at the time , it had NOTHING to do with me ...despite feeling deeply personal.  I was deeply traumatized ( as many LBS are) , went NO CONTACT and just staggered thru the most shocking experience I have ever witnessed ...ever.  I do have PTSD , still in counselling ...I also have a returned MLCer.  Its not easy. From this point on Gypzziroze, nothing is going to be easy for a very very long time...I am sorry.  The truth is , you need to get very serious about looking after YOU and only YOU .  If your H stays "gone", it will indeed be very difficult.  If your H "returns" , it will be very difficult as well, just in a different way.  Please find a trauma therapist for support asap, look after your physical self ( food, sleep , exercise), find something to do that you totally enjoy, spend time with friends, take an online course etc etc ...leave him to his crisis.  Ask him NOTHING , he has no answers and he will blame and attack and that is not in your best interest .  Its  hard to recover from things they say... .  He is on his own journey and that has spun you into your own crisis , trust me you need to find some trauma support . Leave him alone Gypzziroze ....no good will come from pursuing or trying to reason with him. You can't , it has nothing to do with you.
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« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 06:22:00 PM by barbiedoll »
Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Hhaving a hard time with this
#34: October 26, 2020, 09:49:01 PM
Thank you for responding 😊 I am beginning to believe that it is, in fact, not me or anything I've done. The excuses are really menial to be honest. I'm attempting the focus on me right now...I have a lot of projects around the house that need to be done, so I'm about to throw myself into those. I am not going to contact him unless he contacts me...bc even though I am positive this is what he is going through...his depression worries me. If he reaches out, I will respond ...tactfully for sure. 😊
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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#35: October 27, 2020, 05:52:21 AM
Quote
She moved into our house...and I do believe she was overstepping boundaries. After I insisted that she not do my "chores" she would,  and then get butthurt if I re-folded towels and rearranged the dishwasher. Yes, I am extremely OCD and she is borderline hoarder and messy as hell. My H knew this and so did I, so I really tried to not complain etc...but then I started noticing little things that she would do on purpose to annoy me. Gosh....that's a whole other thread lol We did get along for the most part, but I made myself scarce working outside most of the time.


Aargh!  Having an inlaw or parent move in with you especially if they are fixers is a nightmare even at the best of times and the most settled of marriages.  The parent has their own way of doing things and it is common to hear of such extended families that are thrust together in this way falling apart.  If the extended family has a pattern of working together with clear responsibilities, then it can be harmonious. 

It's possible she wasn't trying to deliberately annoy you but if she was messy and didn't co-operate she is going to annoy you anyway.

I think that you probably did the right thing - you set boundaries and it was on her to get upset when you called her out.  However if H was in denial phase with his MLC it is very likely that he would have taken no notice and run from it.  And then use it as ammunition against you to justify his leaving.  His mother is quite possibly also enabling this behaviour too.
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BD march 2013
Stay at home MLCer
OW for 3.5 years - finishing Autumn 2016
Reconnection started 2017 and still going with no sign of reconciliation.

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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#36: October 27, 2020, 06:30:09 AM

Quote
Aargh!  Having an inlaw or parent move in with you especially if they are fixers is a nightmare even at the best of times and the most settled of marriages.  The parent has their own way of doing things and it is common to hear of such extended families that are thrust together in this way falling apart.  If the extended family has a pattern of working together with clear responsibilities, then it can be harmonious. 

It's possible she wasn't trying to deliberately annoy you but if she was messy and didn't co-operate she is going to annoy you anyway.

I think that you probably did the right thing - you set boundaries and it was on her to get upset when you called her out.  However if H was in denial phase with his MLC it is very likely that he would have taken no notice and run from it.  And then use it as ammunition against you to justify his leaving.  His mother is quite possibly also enabling this behaviour too.

Good morning
Not only was she a fixer, she was definitely a meddler. I put my foot down about that a few days before the "argument " we had. What mother asks a DIL if she would like her to buy the little blue pills for her son? I was so taken aback by that! I did think that maybe she wasn't doing things on purpose, but after a while it became apparent that she was. I truly felt like an ass for thinking that way about her prior to realizing that. I read denial and anger overlap,  he was definitely in the anger phase.  July was the beginning of this for him... then right around December id when I believe the anger phase started. He absolutely used that as the catalyst for leaving and moved straight in with her. So if they do revert back to their teenage years,  he did it for sure... house and all 😳 I do know that there is no other woman in the picture other than his mother. I call her the "alienator" because she is validating his reasons I'm sure. He isnt talking to any of his friends about this either...I'm assuming because he doesn't wasnt to be told he is screwing up?? He did meet with one of our friends coming in from Texas , and in his email he wrote that it would be just him because we are going through a rough patch.  Those words exactly.....
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« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 06:55:14 AM by Songanddance »

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Hhaving a hard time with this
#37: October 27, 2020, 05:41:36 PM
What are your thoughts on this statement?

Narcissism breeds nihilism.
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Hhaving a hard time with this
#38: October 29, 2020, 07:38:34 AM
Last few days have been rough. So hard to focus on myself when this has consumed my thoughts. I've been praying almost nonstop, to the point I think I'm going crazy myself. I know that this is something that he has to go through...I keep telling myself that, so that it sinks in. I want to reach out to him so badly and stopping myself from doing so is becoming a task upon itself. I know from reading everyone's stories that it is a bad idea, and I wont. But my resolve is wavering at this time. I am just having a hard time with this...I will probably never understand why he didnt just talk to me about these feelings he was having.
Today is our 10 year anniversary of getting back together.. maybe this is why its hitting me hard.
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« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 07:55:18 AM by Gypzziroze »

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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#39: October 29, 2020, 08:38:13 AM
I'm sorry you are having a rough time, Gypzz.  We all understand those days.

I know it doesn't seem possible right now but it does get better.  Time really does help.

Being triggered by an anniversary doesn't help any, I know.  Neither do birthdays or holidays.   Especially the first ones.  It's very normal. But you can get through them. 
Maybe just get out and do something on those hard days.  Plan something for yourself.  Even if it's a nice long walk in the fresh air.
I did my best praying on those nature walks.  Also had some good conversations with God.  My dog kept looking at me like.."Who is she talking to"   ???

I hope you feel better soon, Gypzz.  None of this is easy, but you are not alone.

{{Big Hug}}
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Hhaving a hard time with this
#40: October 29, 2020, 08:41:20 AM
Gypzziroze ...  Its a hard road you are on right now .  Just exhausting and so painful . Many here know exactly how you feel...many are doing the exact same thing. I cannot say that I totally understand because it just was not my experience , simply the difference in people I suppose. I did not want to see my husband , I did not want to talk to him, reach out to him ...nothing. I never wanted to lay eyes on him . If he was around , I left or hid out in the basement . I finally told him NOT to come any where near me or the house ..period.  If he texted me , I literally physically shook and never answered him. If he emailed me at work, I made a co-worker read it and tell me what he said. I couldn't do it.  I was so traumatized , so shocked...I stayed far far away from him and I had no longing to contact him.  If I had to see him ( daughters university graduation) and her dinner , I stayed completely away from him . I feel sick even remembering that time period.  I never EVER would have contacted him....not even if there was a death.  I just could not . I am sorry...such a painful paralyzing thing is this MLC.  Keep going ...you are strong no matter how it feels ...you CAN do it.  Others will be along that can relate exactly to what you are experiencing
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Married April 1985
5 children
Bomb Drop April 2013
Thrown out of house August 2013
Affair discovered November 2013 (i guessed who)
Home December 3 2013
The Journey Of Reconciliation .. is for the brave .

Anger is like a candle in the wind ... it blows out the light of all reason.

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Hhaving a hard time with this
#41: October 29, 2020, 08:41:53 AM
Following along Gypzziroze.

Sorry you're going through this and having a hard time. Anybody would, so don't get down on yourself.

I can see you're getting some good advice here. I won't add anything other than to encourage you to get out of your head a little if you can. Do you have any exercise or fitness activities? Hiking, biking, running, kickboxing, etc... If not, this would be a good time to start. It helps your overall mood as well as with sleep. Also, drink plenty of water and get as much sleep as you can. Be good to yourself.
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"I'm slowly learning to expect nothing and appreciate everything."

Together 28 years, married 27
Two adult kids, ours

BD #1: 2016 - EA
BD #2: 2018 - FA
W moved out - June 2019
OM#3 - July 2019
W asks for divorce - August 2019
Divorce final - September 2019
Card-carrying member of the Iffer Party

My thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11537.new#new

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Hhaving a hard time with this
#42: October 29, 2020, 08:44:10 AM
Even many years later, intellectually I understand MLC. I accept that he is gone. My heart though still doesn't think the way my head does.

Quote
I will probably never understand why he didnt just talk to me about these feelings he was having.

In most situations in life, good or bad, we work at trying to find a solution. Their leaving the way they do and absolute refusal to talk to us about it goes against the way that we live in other situations..and this from the person that we trusted the most in our lives.

It causes "damage" to us, many people here have been diagnosed with PTSD, when that was first suggested to me, I didn't think it could apply...PTSD was for military vets or people who had been raped or assaulted....yet, our worlds were shattered, blown apart without warning in most cases.

We go into a state of fight/flight/freeze and sometimes we remain in that state much longer than is healthy for us. Trying to get out of that cycle can be very hard...it becomes part of who we are.

The anniversary dates, seeing other "happy" couples, the struggles that this hits us with is very very hard to get a handle on.

But, little by little, we let go of what was...it takes much longer than I would ever have thought and for some of us it takes much longer than others.

I know that when we are not in "touch" we think they will forget us. Contacting with any kind of questions regarding what happened or what will happen  is not suggested. If you feel the need to contact, this is what I found helpful.

I contact him on his birthday and other special days. Sometimes I send him something funny that I know he will like. He does the same. He contacts me on certain occasions. When he does, I respond to him.

I used to hate when I would be told here "no expectations"...but that is 100% true. Whatever you decide to do regarding contact, don't expect any response back or a response that you would like.

Some people find absolutely no contact is easier for them. Some situations are so abusive that contact would be dangerous. It's very individual.

Some of the need to contact is actually anxiety. What can you do to decrease your anxiety? I exercised, did yoga, spoke to friends and sometimes took medication to break the cycle when I would get into a place that I couldn't stand (for me it would show up in my hands literally shaking).

You will find what works for you. This is not easy.

Keep writing.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#43: October 29, 2020, 05:07:40 PM

I hope you feel better soon, Gypzz.  None of this is easy, but you are not alone.

{{Big Hug}}

Thank you 🤗
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Hhaving a hard time with this
#44: October 29, 2020, 05:16:29 PM
such a painful paralyzing thing is this MLC.

Paralyzing...yes, absolutely. Sometimes I wish I could just hate him and be angry at him. I cannot, though. My heart is with him, and I know I am the only one he has told about him feeling the way he does. How can I be angry at someone who is lost and depressed? Dont get me wrong...I am angry to a degree about him not discussing with me his feelings before he Houdini'd(which I believe if every mlc'r would have done in the beginning none of us would be in this $h!testorm.) I am angry he left and blames me for everything...and I'm angry at the WAY he left...but, for the most part, I still want to help him because of my love for him.  I know...I know...
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Hhaving a hard time with this
#45: October 29, 2020, 05:21:50 PM

Do you have any exercise or fitness activities? Hiking, biking, running, kickboxing, etc...

No, I dont. Everything I am interested in doing cost money I do not have at the moment. I was getting into yoga before he BD'd...been trying to talk myself into doing it again. Mainly trying to focus on getting the house repaired and little things that go with it 🤷🏻‍♀️
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Hhaving a hard time with this
#46: October 29, 2020, 05:34:55 PM
Even many years later, intellectually I understand MLC.
Intellectually speaking,  this is the one thing I'm holding on to. I'm thankful it wasn't a brain tumor or stroke.
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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#47: October 30, 2020, 03:52:11 AM
Hi Gypzziroze

I was catching up on your story and I see so much of myself in you.. The feelings, the urge to contact him, the love I felt despite it all and the fact that I couldn't get mad at him because "he wasn't himself, he was suffering, etc etc"   At that time, I just couldn't think any differently, not matter what everyone told me, I could not get out of that mindset... and the reality is that you probably won't be able to get out of that mindset either until you are ready. But as many of the people here have already told you, you need to focus on you and plan your life without any reliance on him because unfortunately, he's most likely going to be gone for a long a time..

Analysing what he says, what he does... Trying to figure out where he is in his journey or being the "perfect LBS" is what most of us do at the beginning.. Now looking back, I think it prolonged my agony and the feeling that I had some control over the situation.. The good news is that it won't feel like this forever. Life will eventually take its course, you will discover that not only you can live without him but you can also thrive. I think this experience changes us, the damage it causes is nothing to laugh at but this forum is full of LBSs who were able to discover themselves again, who have achieved wonderful things, who chose to make the most of this unplanned change in our lives. You can do that too, even if that seems impossible right now. Things will work out, it will take time so you need to be patient with yourself but you will be OK.

As for contact, I agree it's not a good idea. I don't believe it changes anything in relation to his MLC but it protects you from more damage. Right now he thinks you are the reason why he feels the way he feels. That's what his twisted brain is telling him, you are the enemy. It's a concept that I still struggle to understand 3 years on but I have accepted it so I truly let him go to live his life in the way he chose. Time will tell if he made the right or the wrong choice, it doesn't really matter to me anymore.... and I never thought I would say that.

Hugs!
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H - 43 (40 @BD1)
M - 43 (40 @BD1)
Together 15 years, M 8 @separation
No kids
BD1 - 26th Aug 2017 (Not happy, life has no purpose, "we have problems")
BD2 - 22nd March 2018 (Marriage is over, we want different things, confessed EA with someone 12,000 kms away although "she means nothing")
H moved in with parents 11th May 2018 (I asked him to leave as couldn't handle the EA rubbed all over my face)
H moved abroad 29th Dec 2018, not sure if OW will join him or if they are still in contact.
Confirmation H and OW are together, presume PA  - 3rd June 2019
H gets engaged with OW (we are not divorced) - Oct 2019
H "finally" asks for divorce - Aug 2020

"One of the happiest moments in life is when you find the courage to let go of what you can’t change"

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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#48: October 30, 2020, 06:21:01 AM
At that time, I just couldn't think any differently, not matter what everyone told me, I could not get out of that mindset...

Thank you...
I know that I shouldnt analyze what he said the reasons were...but I cant help it honestly. All I do is analyze things when there is a problem with anything. Aahhhh...the mind of a Gemini 🙄😫
I understanding isn't getting me anywhere psychologically,  so I'm doing my best to let it go,  let God handle it.  What recourse do I have, really?
EVERYONE here has been extremely helpful and I am grateful that I found this forum and website. 💞
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Hhaving a hard time with this
#49: October 30, 2020, 07:57:39 AM
Hi Gypzz,
some of the Veterans tell me i over Think/Analyze too.  I realized they are so right!  Well pretty much the advice they give has been spot on for me.  The thing is reading what they suggest and then putting into play does not happen overnight.  I found out that not truly detaching hurts me more than just releasing my wife responsibilities.  H fired me at Bd 5/19 and what i do he does not care about. I don't want to be hurt by his actions that i cannot control and i don't want him tell me what to do.  Right now i don't have respect for my H and i certainly do not admire him.  Those are two key components that will hold my attention.  So for now i just have put what it was in my back pocket and i go off and figure out how to get it done on my own.  It will get easier and using the advice from the Veterans will be extremely helpful at the right time when u need it.

((Hugs))
5hil
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Hhaving a hard time with this
#50: October 30, 2020, 09:53:41 AM
Hi Gypzz,
some of the Veterans tell me i over Think/Analyze too.  I realized they are so right!  Well pretty much the advice they give has been spot on for me.  The thing is reading what they suggest and then putting into play does not happen overnight.  I found out that not truly detaching hurts me more than just releasing my wife responsibilities.  H fired me at Bd 5/19 and what i do he does not care about. I don't want to be hurt by his actions that i cannot control and i don't want him tell me what to do.  Right now i don't have respect for my H and i certainly do not admire him.  Those are two key components that will hold my attention.  So for now i just have put what it was in my back pocket and i go off and figure out how to get it done on my own.  It will get easier and using the advice from the Veterans will be extremely helpful at the right time when u need it.

Yes, the veterans here definitely have opened my eyes to a few hard truths. Today has been a much better day. I will continue to pray for him and our marriage,  but mainly my focus now has to be on myself.  That said, it is really hard to do when I have really put him first in every aspect of our lives. Deep down I know he knows this and if and when he comes out of it, I do hope he knows the damage he has done to my psyche. I have read only a few stories from the other side, and continue to search for more,  just to grasp an understanding,  nothing more at this point. I know I have a struggle ahead, and I have to get stronger mentally for either outcome.  Everyones words here are welcome,  and believe me I take them all into account.

Ive decided to do something nice for myself today whether our not I have the money to do so at this moment. Everyone loves pretty nails and feets 😊
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« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 09:54:50 AM by Gypzziroze »

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#51: October 31, 2020, 07:15:59 AM
I haven't written in my journal in a few days, and just realized that I am writing here more often.  So I guess this is taking the place of my journal for the moment. That's ok,  paper doesnt bounce ideas and thoughts from another perspective to you.
Yesterday I realized that I hasnt done really anything nice for myself since the wreck last February. Felt good to get out of the house for something other than work,  and although I didn't have the"extra" money to do so,  I had my nails done. Such a simple thing really,  but it does makes me feel better about myself instead of looking down at beaten hands.
Our friend visited my H for a few hours last night and told me when he got back that he noticed one thing,  and that was that H still had his wedding ring on. I don't know if that means anything,  or nothing...I realize that one cannot assess "regular" body language with someone in mlc... but I do wonder if that"core" person is screaming at the alien. He mentioned to our friend also thay he has been thinking about his own mortality lately. He is buying expensive parts for his car and been tinkering with it.  (This I already knew) H tinker's when he is in deep thought about something.
Just written for note.
I have the same mindset as yesterday,  so hoping today will be a good day
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#52: November 01, 2020, 04:47:16 AM
GYpzziroze

My H wore his wedding ring even after BD. That doesn't mean anything at least in my case. After a year, he took it off when he was finally ready to announce to his so called new friends that we are separated. His reason was, he wanted to move on and be in a relationship again. This was 1 month after constantly pursuing me and professing his love for me. At that time, I just rejected him because I was so in pain and angry about the affair with his ex gf which up to this day he denies.  So like what every body said here, take the focus off your H and take care of yourself. It's hard to do this because it's still your H. I took me a lot of effort to finally take care of myself and not care anymore what my H is doing or who he is seeing or talking to.
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Married 12 yrs no kids
BD May 2019 (I moved out Nov 2019)
EA or PA with ex gf (not sure), H spent 3 nights with the hoe during our vacation in July 2019, it was a friendly encounter according to H
H wanted D April 2020 but didn’t file it
Contact never stopped, H now wants to reconcile
Me not sure

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#53: November 01, 2020, 01:39:08 PM
  So like what every body said here, take the focus off your H and take care of yourself. It's hard to do this because it's still your H. I took me a lot of effort to finally take care of myself and not care anymore what my H is doing or who he is seeing or talking to.

So very very hard to do...I'm trying though
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#54: November 01, 2020, 04:17:13 PM
Its really hard, but dont read into the wedding ring.  Some MLC'ers dont want the rest of the world to know what's happening, so they continue to wear their ring, they dont post about OP.   Some revert to teenage crush years and blast everything on social media and to friends.

In my sitch, I took my ring off first (before I knew of MLC, but to be honest, I am not wearing it anymore).   My W wore hers for a bit after I removed mine.   She now no longer wears her ring, and if she did, it was on her right hand and she made a point of specifically saying it doesn't mean anything other than, she really likes her ring

Follow the advice of the forum.   There are a lot of experienced vets here.   Do not watch or read into what they do.   You will absolutely lose your mind
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#55: November 01, 2020, 09:37:02 PM
I feel like I've lost it already,  truly. 
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#56: November 02, 2020, 05:37:58 AM
Hey Gypzz,
what do you mean "lost it already"?

5hil
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#57: November 02, 2020, 06:28:54 PM
Hey Gypzz,
what do you mean "lost it already"?

5hil

My mind.... heart tells me one thing,  intellect tells me another. Trying to meet in the middle... almost like sucking a hamburger through a straw. 😫
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#58: November 10, 2020, 06:45:52 AM
Made an appointment with a psychiatrist for next week...its time for medication.  I have been trying to get through this on my own without inundating my friends (who I know are here for me). No one understands, truly understands, this mlc. You can't understand it unless it happens to you, believe it. My friends that know what's going on are truly trying to help and absolutely hate what I am going through...but they are trying.
I can go about a day without sobbing and crying out to God to ease this suffering. 3 months...3 months and I cant get my $h!tee together. I've been journaling...on and off. But nothing eases this.
Hard to focus on myself or even daily activities.
If this black cloud is anything like what they are going through,  I do have a heart that goes out to my H.
But at least I recognize there it's something wrong.
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#59: November 10, 2020, 07:20:33 AM

I can go about a day without sobbing and crying out to God to ease this suffering. 3 months...3 months and I cant get my $h!tee together.

3 months is VERY new.   Try to be kind to yourself, and remind you that this is very raw and very recent. 

It gets better in time, with shadow work.   I'm almost 10 months out, and while I have some "sad" days, I definitely am not even close to where I was at 3 months, much less 6 months.
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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#60: November 10, 2020, 07:25:35 AM
That's a great step forward for you, Gypzz.  Yes get some counseling for yourself.

I felt better after I did, but don't expect the doctor to understand MLC.  They may understand an Identity Crisis.

It's important that he/she can work on your feelings and emotions.  You need that kind of support right now.

Gosh you bring back all those very dark days in the beginning of my H's crisis.
I too, cried for what seemed like forever.  I was shaky, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep and I barely functioned.  I lost almost 50 pounds and got really thin.
I think it's the shock your body is reacting to.
Try hard to eat a little something every day, something that you can keep down.
I lived on oranges....   ::)

Gypzz this won't last forever and you will not always feel this bad, with time, proper counseling and maybe some medication for anxiety you will start to feel better.

You H maybe is suffering from depression, but he needs to deal with that himself.  I'm not saying you can't feel sympathy for him, but there is just nothing you can do to help him.  You need to get you well.

Much love to you, Gypzz. 
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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#61: November 10, 2020, 08:32:19 AM
Hello Gypzz,
I think sometimes we believe we must feel and heal as others do.  But we all know that's not the case since we are all uniquely individual.  I am pretty new to this craziness too bd 5/19.  I remember sitting in church and meetings like a bomb ready to explode into tears.  I was quiet and prayed that no one would talk to me.  I was really involved with the community and church and sat on various boards of directors if asked i raised my hand.  But that came to a screeching halt, i pulled out of everything because i could not focus on myself and even less on church and community responsibilities. I was pretty sure that since i retired and stayed very active with the community my absence drove H into the person i no longer know. I know now that is not the case.

I did ask for help from my doctor and shared with only 4 life long friends. 3 who really love my H and one who does not know him as well since she lives in another state.  I keep myself busy doing what i need to do with my home maintenance and i have started back with some church and community activities.  But they are mostly to keep my mind occupied.  The yard work is therapeutic though, i can cry, curse, whatever.  While doing yard work i can wear whatever i want no hair or make-up concerns and put my music as loud as i want.

I am no longer the bomb ready to explode mostly because i have found ways to get it out of my system.  That does not mean i don't cry or i don't wonder what the hell happened.  Although i still have my triggers, i do feel each day i get stronger.  Take good care of yourself ((HUGS)),

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#62: November 10, 2020, 02:45:52 PM
Quote
I can go about a day without sobbing and crying out to God to ease this suffering. 3 months...3 months and I cant get my $h!tee together. I've been journaling...on and off. But nothing eases this.
Hard to focus on myself or even daily activities.
If this black cloud is anything like what they are going through,  I do have a heart that goes out to my H.
But at least I recognize there it's something wrong.

There is no time table for grief. I was surprised at how long I cried every single day...for hours. How I could not focus, I could not read, I could not sleep and all I could think about was why? I was a mess.

I have since learned that the LBSer is often suffering from PTSD and we are operating in a fight/flight/freeze mode. Our whole world has blown up, suddenly and without warning.

Take a look at this chart and you will see how this relates to the way that you are feeling:
I have since learned a lot about the stress response and especially the polyvagal system and what happens during stress. This chart and explanation really can help you understand why is happening when you are in a fight/flight/freeze zone.

https://www.rubyjowalker.com/polyvagal_theory.html

The fight/flight response is helpful when we are threatened but it was never meant to be turned on continuously which is what is happening to you now.

Medications can be helpful. Exercise is essential, walking was especially good for me. Journalling, yoga, meditation..I took up golf and gardening also help greatly to calm me down.

My therapist specializes in mind/body work and she has taught me techniques to be in what she calls the "green tree zone". All of this takes time and work and is costly as well.

The ups and downs of the actions of the MLCer contribute to our distress. It is so very hard not to know what to expect from them from one moment to the next.

It is good that you made an apt to see someone. You will eventually feel better. But it takes much more time than we could ever imagine.

Keep writing to us...take some comfort in knowing that so many of us understand what you are feeling, have felt it ourselves and know that over time you will be ok..but I don't think it can be rushed.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#63: November 11, 2020, 09:50:50 AM
Just letting you know, I could not concentrate enough to read a short story for 3 years. Yes, years. Granted, I had a live in MLCER for 1.5 of those years, but it takes a while to get your sea legs back when your system has been through such a shock plus you have to figure out all the logistics. (Money, living space, bills, kids or pets, etc)  I'm over five years in and there will still be an occasion where I will burst into tears. It's ok, it does get better.

My mantra became "One thing at a time". Wash one dish if that was all I could handle. Do one load of laundry. I was fortunate to get a job where I could run on half speed and still do well.

Be kind to yourself. This is not easy.
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#64: November 11, 2020, 02:51:03 PM
Quote
I can go about a day without sobbing and crying out to God to ease this suffering. 3 months...3 months and I cant get my $h!tee together. I've been journaling...on and off. But nothing eases this.
Hard to focus on myself or even daily activities.
If this black cloud is anything like what they are going through,  I do have a heart that goes out to my H.
But at least I recognize there it's something wrong.

There is no time table for grief. I was surprised at how long I cried every single day...for hours. How I could not focus, I could not read, I could not sleep and all I could think about was why? I was a mess.

I have since learned that the LBSer is often suffering from PTSD and we are operating in a fight/flight/freeze mode. Our whole world has blown up, suddenly and without warning.

Take a look at this chart and you will see how this relates to the way that you are feeling:
I have since learned a lot about the stress response and especially the polyvagal system and what happens during stress. This chart and explanation really can help you understand why is happening when you are in a fight/flight/freeze zone.

https://www.rubyjowalker.com/polyvagal_theory.html

The fight/flight response is helpful when we are threatened but it was never meant to be turned on continuously which is what is happening to you now.

Medications can be helpful. Exercise is essential, walking was especially good for me. Journalling, yoga, meditation..I took up golf and gardening also help greatly to calm me down.

My therapist specializes in mind/body work and she has taught me techniques to be in what she calls the "green tree zone". All of this takes time and work and is costly as well.

The ups and downs of the actions of the MLCer contribute to our distress. It is so very hard not to know what to expect from them from one moment to the next.

It is good that you made an apt to see someone. You will eventually feel better. But it takes much more time than we could ever imagine.

Keep writing to us...take some comfort in knowing that so many of us understand what you are feeling, have felt it ourselves and know that over time you will be ok..but I don't think it can be rushed.

Thank you all for your words. Especially thank you for this link... this is my language...something I can see in front of me. Believe me I take all what is said into account. I just hope that I am doing the right thing
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#65: November 11, 2020, 04:03:25 PM
The polyvagal theory basically is our "stress response". I am a nurse and had lots of theory about stress and the effects of stress on our bodies.

But I did not connect "stress" so much with the destruction of our marriage.

I felt very lost, I did not recognize the person I became, I did not know her. There were things such as exercise that I knew made me feel better but the sadness and grief remained for a very long time. Even to this day, there are times when it overwhelms me (and certainly is made worse by COVID and the political situation).

When I was introduced to that chart, I had already been in therapy for perhaps a year..already being taught to pay attention to my body's response and things that could "turn down the volume". I knew that there were waves, times when I felt reasonably ok and then times when I was in a very bad place..the chart shows how the body knows how to return to a calmer state.

There is also a field of study called epigenetics that is looking at how we respond to trauma may be something that we are genetically coded to do. It  explains why some people  seem to have a more difficult time with this than others do.

I have an amazing therapist who helped me to break through what was holding me back from healing...and I recognize that there will always be places that are damaged by this.

It took me years to feel "normal" again. At times, I took an anti anxiety med to break the cycle of anxiety/panic that would hit.

Each one of us have to find what works best for us. But you are on your way..because you are asking and questioning and recognizing your own inner world..and that is a very good start.
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« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 04:06:06 PM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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#66: November 24, 2020, 11:26:18 PM
Hi all,
Well I went to the psychiatrist last Thursday and she prescribed me antidepressants and anxiety and sleep meds. I think I now know why they call prozac "sunshine in a pill" 🤣
I know that you are usually supposed to feel the effects after a few weeks, but I'm here to say that 2 days ago I laughed for the first time in 3 months. I think its safe to say it starting to work....especially since I took not of the laughter. It feels like eons have passed since I laughed.
Texted my H about 3 weeks ago letting him know about my dads surgery..he texted back almost immediately.  I could tell by his texts that he is still missing that empathetic part of his brain. I mentioned that the back of the fascia was now repaired to get ready for ins adjuster to come out. Imagine my surprise when he asked "who did it?"
Yes, that is the first question he has asked me in 3 months. Maybe means nothing, but I took notice. I haven't heard back from him since they day.
Just wanted to update here...for a while I think the writing was hurting me more than helping...but now I believe it helps...
Hope everyone who celebrates Thanksgiving has a wonderful day! 😊
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#67: November 24, 2020, 11:41:58 PM
Well done, Gyp, for having the courage to seek professional support. And I am so glad that you are feeling that small shift....yes, it's a funny feeling when we suddenly realise that we have a little burst of normal pleasure or contentment isn't it?....but it is a good sign that you are starting on a new constructive path forward. This time too will pass, my friend, and I hope you have a good Thanksgiving with lots of small joys  :)
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T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

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#68: November 27, 2020, 09:00:25 PM
Well done, Gyp, for having the courage to seek professional support. And I am so glad that you are feeling that small shift....yes, it's a funny feeling when we suddenly realise that we have a little burst of normal pleasure or contentment isn't it?....but it is a good sign that you are starting on a new constructive path forward. This time too will pass, my friend, and I hope you have a good Thanksgiving with lots of small joys  :)

Thank you. It was a nice quiet day with the family and friends. It was a kind of surreal day, though. First holiday without my husband with me for 10 years. No call on his part either. I've reached a point now that I know there is absolutely nothing I can do to help him along with this, and he has to do it himself. I wish I could contact him, but apparently that is the worst thing I can do with a vanisher/distant contactor. I do know that he has been updating his mom about the things I have told him. She buttdialed me the other day and we had a nice 45 minute conversation. The first time I have talked with her since the incident ...I was very careful in selecting my words to her, I know she will and has gone back to him with every word. All I told her regarding my H was that I believe he is going through something that he has to push through himself. She actually agreed with me. I believe she knows something is wrong with him, but doesnt know what. She was also under the impression that we talked a lot....nope.
I did tell her however, that I have been going to bed earlier and earlier (something he mentioned in his monstering/blaming text ) and that I have 3 jobs now instead of none (also mentioned in his monstering/blaming text)...she told me that I sounded happy....I told her that I was far from happy, but am making the best of the situation.
She said that she hoped that it wasnt her that caused any problems...I told her no, that this was coming regardless of anything that occurred (which is only a half truth, but I'll take the high road here)
She ended the conversation saying that she really cares about me and that if there is anything she can help me with let her know. I told her thank you for that and I'll consider that in the future.
As I've said, I know that she will go and tell H everything....did I say the right things to her??
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« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 09:02:07 PM by Gypzziroze »

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#69: November 27, 2020, 09:22:06 PM
Gypzzi-
Sounds like you did a great job speaking with her!
You were kind and honest, no blaming or anger.
You should be proud of yourself...
And you were speaking to your H as well, if she does indeed go back directly to him.
Seems as if the parents of the MLCer don't always have all the information.
It's good that you had the opportunity to fill in some holes.

You said that sometimes writing hurts more than helps.
You'll find that you go through stages, where the site may bring up more sadness and monkey-braining than if you just stay off.
If that's the case, take a HS forum break for awhile and see how you feel.
I think that's a pretty common thing.
We're here for YOU...
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#70: November 27, 2020, 10:16:26 PM
Gypzz I agree with Seahorse, you did very good.

Only saying truths to your MIL, knowing it will get back to your H, without blame or anger.

I'm sorry, but honestly the first for occasions without them is the very hardest.
Holidays are never easy but please know it will get easier.

Also please know no matter what he blamed you for, sleeping, working, had nothing to do with why he did what he did.  They have to find reasons why they are doing these unkind things they do to justify them to themselves, so they make them up.  Relieve the guilt a bit.

You did not cause any of this, Gypzz.

Hugs
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A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

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Re: Hhaving a hard time with this
#71: November 28, 2020, 04:57:09 AM
Thank you seahorse...I still cant figure out how to put 2 quotes together on this thing 🤣😳

Gypzz I agree with Seahorse, you did very good.

Only saying truths to your MIL, knowing it will get back to your H, without blame or anger.

I'm sorry, but honestly the first for occasions without them is the very hardest.
Holidays are never easy but please know it will get easier.

Also please know no matter what he blamed you for, sleeping, working, had nothing to do with why he did what he did.  They have to find reasons why they are doing these unkind things they do to justify them to themselves, so they make them up.  Relieve the guilt a bit.

You did not cause any of this, Gypzz.

Hugs

Oh, I know that now. The only reason I mentioned it to her was because she said that he wasn't sleeping well for years (I know he told her that, same as me)... I told her that he was always a light sleeper, but after the DUI he received, his not sleeping got worse.  So enter me going to sleep earlier and earlier 😁 which is true, but that's why I mentioned it.
I also wanted to take his justification away in the only way I could. Selfish maybe? Nahh, I dont think so.
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« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 05:11:38 AM by Gypzziroze »

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#72: November 28, 2020, 06:28:16 AM
I had to go a little quicker earlier so that's why my reply was short. I'm very thankful that the meds are working already,  but will probably change the prozac to something different. I won't deal with the weight gain, and I think that wellbutrin can possibly be a better fit. I'll be talking to my psychiatrist Monday about it. The side effects already are numerous....although it works! 🙄 Aahhh the Joy's

As far as MIL conversation, it did go surprisingly well. I absolutely contribute that to my newfound calm. If I wouldn't have gotten help, I would have buckled under that kind of "pressure". My mind would have gone into overdrive, and judging from the chart that was sent to me in an earlier post, I was operating between the red and yellow for the last 3 months...and I knew my body could not take it much longer. I am now in the "Green"...its so different than even just a week ago"ish".
So I'm thankful for that.
I'm also very thankful for this forum. I'm on 3 forums on facebook and one of them is THS community. This place is much calmer and more positive I find.
Just my observation 😊
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#73: December 02, 2020, 07:18:33 PM
So I saw my psychiatrist yesterday,  and she is a fan of cymbalta...trying that now. 🤞🏼🤞🏼
I am relieved that I am in a better place mentally and can better approach this situation. Yes, I know it's only been 3 and 1/2 months, but what I was just 2 short weeks ago and where I'm at now is amazing.
I know I have to just let him get on with it, and sc if and when he does contact. I find myself not wanting him to call or text if he would be cruel to me in any way. A mutual friend went to have dinner at his mom's with him the other day and he asked how we were doing.  H told him we are doing good, but we have some things to work out.
WTF? 🤔😠
Gotta communicate for that right? Sheesh...
I'm beginning to see a little of the confusion, but I honestly try not to think about him every minute like I was... but it is hard when I wake in the morning and how he is doing is my first thought, and when going to bed if he has made any progress through the tunnel. I'm still praying for him and I daily.
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Hhaving a hard time with this
#74: December 03, 2020, 04:51:32 PM
Hopping on board here Gypz.  I'm glad that you and your psych are working together to find meds that best fit for you.

Thinking of my H every morning first thing happened for a very long time.  Like you, whenever I think of him, I say a prayer for him.
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M-42
H-44
S-20 (mine)
D-18 (ours)
S-15 (ours)
Friends 7y before M
Married 14y
BD 12/14/15 - 2 weeks after 14th anniv.
Divorce final 4/13/16
EA - 9/15-4/16
New GF 12/16
Engaged 6/17 (I found out 8/10/17)
Moved to her State 4 States away - 7/13/17 (told me 4 days before)
Eng. off 8/20/17
Moved back to our State 8/24/17
New GF 2/29/20 (Told me 4/22/20)
Married her 4/24/20 (Told me 4/22/20)

Link to my journey: 
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11618.0

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning to dance in the rain."

"Don't become a container for bitterness.  It's a toxin that destroys what it's carried in."

"Sometimes - some things have to break apart so better things can be built."

 

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