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Author Topic: Discussion Anyone else have a vanisher 23?

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Nas

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Discussion Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#100: August 01, 2023, 10:57:49 AM
I actually have 3 relevant anecdotes but I’ll just share the first one right now and will post the others later:
In regards to previous posts regarding my old friend who left her H and appears to be in the midst of MLC, recently she, without my knowledge or permission, gave my contact info to a man she thought I might "be perfect for" (whatever the heck that means). He initially reached out in a polite manner and so I thought, what the hell, no harm in chatting, so I wrote back. I really should have thought twice. We had a very few back and forth messages, light banter, nothing of any substance. Then, boom, he took a sharp left and sent me an unexpectedly forward message with an "unsolicited" picture.
So I asked my old friend, who the heck is this guy. She thought it was hilarious and said “we both need a fling.” Interesting, so in her mind, I need what she needs – which really means she has no knowledge of or consideration for what I need, she just doesn’t want to be alone in her “lost-ness.”  Apparently when she told this guy about me, she described “me” as I was about 28 years ago when she and I were young and used to hang out together a lot - she described me that way because she's living in that past and desperate to recapture it. Maybe she thought if she could bring me back there with her, it would make it more "right," or it wouldn't feel so lonely, who knows? But I'm not that person anymore - I wasn't even really that person then. I wasn't really all that wild by nature, but I probably appeared a little wild because I was entirely disassociated and simply living minute to minute, and some of my "wild" was also (now embarrassingly) performative. I couldn't go back to that existence even if I wanted to because it never really existed. I can't speak for her but I suspect that's partly true for her too and she's trying to construct a new self by reaching back to grab something that never even really was. Maybe she’ll realize that someday, maybe she won’t.

https://youtu.be/EfYGfJmTy78
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2023, 11:00:00 AM by Nas »
The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you shall be free. ~ Margaret Atwood

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Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#101: August 01, 2023, 11:11:10 AM
Wow!!!! You know I met another LBS that lived near me. We got very close and went out a lot, but she was always getting into convos with men that were sending her “hot dog pics” she kept saying why?? Why do I get these? I said, it’s the vive you gave out. She said do you ever get them? I said NEVER. I dont give that vibe, so I think you are spot on with your friend must have given an inaccurate version of you.

I also would HATE and be LIVID with anyone giving out my number to anyone. This is also another reason why I find putting myself put there these days is scary. Heck if I didn’t see what my XH was capable of, how the heck am I going to be able to find someone now.  So sorry that happened NAS.
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
June 2022 XH bring OW to meet family due to xMIL illness
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife
May 2024 xMIL visits XH/OW in their new home
Aug 2024 cut relations w/XH fam.
Dec 2024 D33 expecting baby ( XH not told)

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Nas

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#102: August 01, 2023, 03:55:30 PM
I know I definitely don’t give out a vibe. But even if I did, or even if any woman does, it’s still on the person who perceives a “vibe” and decides to take the action of sending an un-asked for picture. Similar to the way even if an OW appears to be flirting shamelessly with a married man, it’s still on the married man who decides to take action.

As far as not being able to see what your xH was capable of, none of us were, but part of entering into any relationship is taking a risk of getting hurt. We even took that risk way back when we first got together with our spouses, whether we saw it that way or not. There are no guarantees, that’s why it’s important to be in a place where you’re OK with or without a relationship. It’ll still hurt if you enter into one and it ends, but it will not knock us on our ass the way the end of the marriage did. I never ever intend to put my well-being in the care of anyone else. I know it’s a difficult and delicate balance because it’s a rare person out there who will be “right” for me, so knowing that that person is so rare but also knowing that it’ll be OK if the relationship ends… Striking that balance means I have to be in peak emotional fighting shape, as it were, before even entering the relationship to begin with.
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The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you shall be free. ~ Margaret Atwood

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Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#103: August 01, 2023, 04:38:33 PM
Word, Nas. You will know when, and who. I don’t even know how d pic’s became a thing? I have no need. I’ll go out on a limb, and say a high percentage of women don’t need? Unsolicited pics, or grabs, or, or, or……….and then, if it accidentally happens to us, WE are at fault? Absurd. We can’t go out for fear of being accosted. We can’t stay in on the internet for fear of being accosted. It’s just the same old chastity belt being placed on maidens (who have no f’n clue why-their head doesn’t go there)…..but we are the problem, somehow? Well, some of are contributing to it, but that’s not me, or you. This is a man problem, and it can really only be fixed eventually by good men. I’m raising my son to be a good man. Part of the solution. He should always feel he is MORE powerful when he chooses not to buy into this crap. And MORE powerful when he stands up for his female friends. And MORE powerful when he seeks to become part of the solution. It’s not emasculating to be part of the solution. It should be the most empowering thing ever to masculinity.
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#104: August 01, 2023, 07:37:43 PM
I agree Nas.  One thing I have kicked myself over on all this is I have always been a strong, confident and self sufficient woman. I kept my maiden name even when I got married.  I gave up to much and lost my independence. I thought ai was being supportive, but in the end I wasn’t supportive to me.  I can never understand those that can jump right in again. You have to process and disconnect before starting again.
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
June 2022 XH bring OW to meet family due to xMIL illness
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife
May 2024 xMIL visits XH/OW in their new home
Aug 2024 cut relations w/XH fam.
Dec 2024 D33 expecting baby ( XH not told)

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Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#105: August 02, 2023, 02:13:44 AM
Word, Nas. You will know when, and who. I don’t even know how d pic’s became a thing? I have no need. I’ll go out on a limb, and say a high percentage of women don’t need? Unsolicited pics, or grabs, or, or, or……….and then, if it accidentally happens to us, WE are at fault? Absurd. We can’t go out for fear of being accosted. We can’t stay in on the internet for fear of being accosted. It’s just the same old chastity belt being placed on maidens (who have no f’n clue why-their head doesn’t go there)…..but we are the problem, somehow? Well, some of are contributing to it, but that’s not me, or you. This is a man problem, and it can really only be fixed eventually by good men. I’m raising my son to be a good man. Part of the solution. He should always feel he is MORE powerful when he chooses not to buy into this crap. And MORE powerful when he stands up for his female friends. And MORE powerful when he seeks to become part of the solution. It’s not emasculating to be part of the solution. It should be the most empowering thing ever to masculinity.

totally agree with that. As a man, I would never send such a picture. It sounds very childish to me. Who could want such a relationship ? I feel sad for men imagining relationships with women can be purely sexual. I know it comes from hormones, yes but it is not an excuse. Culture and education are the right answers, I agree. It is a question of power, yes, it is also a question of happiness. What makes life beautiful is desire, time, and uncertainty. Babies want their needs to be immediately fullfilled. Teenagers and spouses in crisis also. But when we raise children, we know that giving immediately what they ask is not the right answer. Children getting immediately what they want are frustrated and unhappy.

Now I am living with kind of chastity belt. Looks like I am forced to wear it due to the MLC of my W. But when I make it a conscious choice to wear it, that makes a difference for my mind. When I understood the MLC could be for years, I got temptations : I searched the announcements for prostitution or "massage", I subscribed to dating sites. And I unsuscribed the day after just after getting some notifications. I don't want this kind of relationship. Sexual intimacy is beautiful when it happens between two people in love. I want no less. So I am entering what Standing Strong is calling "hibernation". That does not kill me.

Final touch less serious : please continue to bring out the funny anecdotes like this one with the sausage pic. This thing is so ridiculous, we should only laugh of it.
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M 45, W43. Married 17 years, together 20
3 children D17, D15, S6
OM discovered Dec 22, BD Jan 23 (few days after)
W living at home 16 mths post BD, then keeps moving in & out "for work" in foreign country.
Aimer, c'est donner sans attendre de retour et tout acte est prière, s'il est don de soi (Antoine de Saint Exupéry)
Love means to give without expecting return, and every act is a prayer if it is a self-gift. (thanks OffRoad !)

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#106: August 02, 2023, 02:30:20 AM
Richard Pictures = "Little Richard"   'nuf said....
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Me - 61, xW - 54
Together 19 years - Married 17 at separation & 21 at D-Day
S - 17, D - 13
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House sold & separated - Mar 2016
Divorce final 30 August 2019
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Nas

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#107: August 02, 2023, 01:41:40 PM
Second anecdote, which for me connected to a bit to my former H and what people tell themselves when they’re having an affair. I won’t tell this story very well, forgive me, but hopefully you get the gist:

I was recently sat next to a man while traveling and, after a few minutes of polite chit chat, I did something I usually don't do, which is exchange emails with a stranger. I was apprehensive when he asked, but a few things he said made me think he might be a good contact to have. After talking for a while (he talked, I didn’t really get a word in edgewise), he sighed really, really loudly and said out of nowhere: "Well,  for better or worse, I’m going home for a bit because [another loud sigh]...I'm getting married next week." Then told me how he's marrying the woman who taught him what a relationship should *feel* like (important to note the words here), because his marriage made him *feel* “about this big.” I said, "Oh, so you had an affair."
His face was priceless. After looking stunned for a few seconds, he copped to it but tried to justify in all the usual ways: his wife *made him feel* small, blah blah blah. Eventually, I told him just a very, very little bit about how my marriage ended due to infidelity and then sat back while he twisted himself up trying to differentiate his actions from my former husband's, calling my former H every name in the book while justifying his own reasons.

He explained that the impetus for the upcoming marriage was that his work kept him in another country for much of the year and his soon to be wife (the OW) has trust issues and was uncomfortable with the amount of time they'd be spending apart. (And of course marriage will totally fix that, right?) I talked to him longer than I should have, and I didn’t share much about myself at all but still wish I hadn’t shared anything – things just kind of flowed because I was so fascinated by the textbook nature of his justifications. It was like one cliche after another and it was really kind of fascinating to hear it play out. He spent A LOT of time telling me about what he does (it’s very, very important  ::)), where he’s been  ::), who he knows  ::), and the things he has (“11 cars, down from over 20…it’s kind of a sickness I have”  ::) ::) ::)). At one point he told me that in 11 and a half boring years of traveling the same route, I was "a breath of fresh air" and he wished he'd met me 30 years ago - you know, all things one should be saying to a stranger a week before his wedding.  ::) Though it wasn’t in a lecherous way, I didn’t feel like I was being hit on, and I can’t say what he really meant because I’m not in his head, but it felt almost sad, and definitely not about me at all - the most telling part was that he said those things to me after not having asked me a single thing about myself. He didn’t learn anything about me, so how could he know if he’d liked to have known me 30 years ago? They were empty words, and I wondered if he was saying to me some of what he deep down wishes someone would sincerely say to him.

It didn’t surprise me at all the way he talked about his ex-wife and his soon to be wife, like a script he’d memorized and kept repeating in the same way so as not to mess up his “facts.” The ex-wife was the first woman who'd made him feel seen, but as time went on, she made him feel small, she said things that made him feel bad. The OW/soon to be wife made him feel “good” – and me, meeting me was an unexpected pleasure - for what reason? He talked for a very long time, the words he was saying – his own words - made him feel validated and justified and he projected that onto me, even though they were his words and I never validated him once. That’s similar to my former H and his OW, from the little I know. He talked, she happened to be there on the receiving end, and he gave her credit for making him feel the relief he felt when he said a bunch of words that justified his $h!tety behavior, if that makes sense.

So it was interesting and made me think a lot about how people project and put so much on other people. I’m nobody, I was just sitting there, but he built me up into something more than a complete stranger, just because I was there while he was in a certain state of mind. He needed to feel "seen," so he told himself I saw him. Doesn't need to be true, just needs to meet the current need.

And then a few days passed and I did get an email from him. He wrote, in part: “I want to thank you for making a trip that is usually quite tedious pass very quickly. You truly are inspiring and meeting you was an unexpected pleasure. Certainly it has made me re-evaluate quite a lot.” Such words, to a total stranger, someone he knows nothing about. This is a man who, much like several people I’ve known, seems to meet people and then invent them in his head, which is sad because he probably doesn’t really know anyone. I would say good luck to his fiancée, but she knows she was the affair partner, so she’s probably living in a delusion just as thick as his.

Never thought I’d say it but I’m kind of glad I’m lost on my own and not out there trying to piece together a storyboard using other people as filler.

https://youtu.be/GJsYQY_ZXK4
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« Last Edit: August 02, 2023, 01:46:58 PM by Nas »
The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you shall be free. ~ Margaret Atwood

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Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#108: August 02, 2023, 02:28:39 PM
The lost man or woman seem to do this. Fantasy on all levels Here he is getting married and already lost and looking for something else. A connection, because they just cant connect that deep emotionally so it is all made up. It is very sad. To never feel truly connected. Thanks for sharing. How very interesting
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There is almost something harder about someone being alive and having to lose what you believed to be true of them than someone actually dying.

Indefatigability - determined to do or achieve something; firmness of purpose
perspicacity- a clarity of vision or intellect which provides a deep understanding and insight

Married July 1991
Jan 2018 BD1 moved out I filed for Div/ H stopped it
Oct 2018 moved back
Oct 2020 BD2
Feb 2021 Div-29 1/2 years
July 2021 Married OW
Feb 2022  XH fired
June 2022 XH bring OW to meet family due to xMIL illness
May 2023 went NC after telling XH we could not be friends
Aug 2023 XH moves w/o OWife
May 2024 xMIL visits XH/OW in their new home
Aug 2024 cut relations w/XH fam.
Dec 2024 D33 expecting baby ( XH not told)

N

Nas

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Anyone else have a vanisher 23?
#109: August 03, 2023, 07:28:31 AM
It is sad to think of never truly being connected. I didn't mention it's been six years since he left his marriage. He's still telling himself the same story after six years, and he probably always will. I would love to believe when he emailed me and said "certainly it's made me re-evaluate quite a lot" it meant he was re-evaluating why he had an affair and really looking at himself. But from other things he wrote, I tend to doubt it.
There's this interesting metaphor about a mirror that I think about an awful lot from a poet, Ibn Arabi, where polishing the mirror represents a polishing of projections of the heart and mind, resulting in a change of perspective. I said this to "airplane man" and he looked at me like I was nuts, or like he was horrified by the very idea. It is a scary idea though - I always tell myself it's time to polish my mirror, but it's hard, always, especially when I don't recognize the reflection. I can see where it would definitely be much easier to just avoid it forever, to never see yourself (and therefore never being seen or really seeing another). Easier, but completely undesirable imo.
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« Last Edit: August 03, 2023, 07:43:04 AM by Nas »
The desire to be loved is the last illusion. Give it up and you shall be free. ~ Margaret Atwood

 

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