[UrsaMajor]

Attaching -

XYZ spells it out pretty well - D for self-protection/financial protection is one thing. Using a D (or the threat thereof) to "motivate" the Mid-Lifer to get their head out of their .... fog.... isn't going to have the desired effect and it really gives the MLC'er the "Get Out of Jail Free" card they so desperately crave to show that they really aren't so bad after all.... and that it wasn't their fault.... Guilt-alleviation at its finest....

Getting legal advice does NOT mean that you need to file either but having the information is a good start....

[thissucks7788]

So I've read everything above and as they say, I've slept on it. I think I am going too far pushing for D right now--obviously my body is telling me that I'm not ready to do it so as long as I still have a choice and there is nothing obvious or triggering, I will leave it be--for now.  I have met with a lawyer (shortly after BD) and I think I'll continue to collect paperwork, log expenses etc...so I can move quickly if needed.  I have no misconceptions that filing would pull him out of the MLC and even if it did, I know what happens when they get pulled out too soon, so I would never take this approach. I also would never want my H to come back b/c of anything I did to manipulate.  I wouldn't want to have to go through this ever again and I have learned so much about false starts etc...  I am totally keeping out of his way.  This was about financials only-- I'm bitter that my state doesn't have legal separation- but it is what it is.

I also feel for now that I want to back off on our "friendship".  I don't really want that type of relationship with him, so I like the idea of behaving like a friendly neighbor when I see him.  I am not available for chit chats etc... at least that's how I feel for now.  I realize that it can contribute to connection, but it isn't working for me and I'm feeling resentful ... Not b/c I can't handle the interactions, but b/c I feel like he fired me from that job so he doesn't get to be with me like that.  When he came to see my son the other day, I made sure that I wasn't around. 

   Soooo on that note, I'm looking for a reset to hopefully get back to a better place.
I started feeling a bit better after I decided to slow my roll    After work, I think I am going to take my son to a local farm market and have some fun.  We both like going there   We have made amends after our fight the other day and he has been trying to please so I really appreciate that.  We could use a little fun bonding. 

As always, you guys are the best and I hope my jumbled thoughts here made sense.   I hope you all are well! xo

[xyzcf]

The first attorney I saw was very specific regarding documenting and keeping receipts for all my expenses....so that I could "prove" that I was accustomed to a certain lifestyle...so she had me keep a record (she said for at least 6 months) of every hair apt, groceries, magazines, shows I went to, mortgage, taxes, insurance premiums, cable....absolutely everything so that when it came time to determine maintenance, I would have documentation to assist in getting a "fair" settlement.

Making copies of all documents, tax returns for the past years, life insurance policies, investment account balances (401 K) pension accounts....having a record of the account numbers, the financial institutions and the balances at the time he left is also important.

Also making sure to look at things like health insurance and life insurance to cover the cost of child support and alimony should your husband pre decease you.

Sometimes taking a lump sum (for example all the equity in a house) rather than monthly payments is beneficial in case he loses his job or refuses down the road the road to pay.

Also, since your husband has his own business, you may need to hire a forensic accountant who can make sure that all assets are accounted for and can figure out what assets are better for you to have from a tax perspective. It gets complicated when there is a business involved and it is money well spent.

Regarding being his "friend"you said

it isn't working for me and I'm feeling resentful ... Not b/c I can't handle the interactions, but b/c I feel like he fired me from that job so he doesn't get to be with me like that.

They are so delusional (sigh)...they seem to think that we are ok with all this and still want to be "friends".....you are quite right to identify what YOU want...and not worry that having a "connection" will make much difference in the long term...some people will say that they have to feel as though they are losing you...once again, I am not into playing games and I don't think it matters to them, I really don't.

Whatever you do, you do for your own mental health and well being.

Love the idea of going to the local farm market with your son. ENJOY. There was about 4 months when my daughter was 16 that I would have gladly given her away!

[thissucks7788]

Thank you so much xyzcf.  That is one of the best lists I've seen to get my paperwork together.  I actually worked on it for about an hour today and made some good headway. I majorly appreciate it!!!

I have some shocking news.  My H texts me that he needs to talk to me about something important and to meet him at his place at 7:15.  I literally thought I was going to puke.  I didn't know what he had in mind.  It seems he wants back. LO is gone. I let him do most of the talking and listened to what he had to say.  I asked a lot of questions and listened carefully to the answers.  I told him that it was a lot to take in and I would need time to reflect.  I said that I'm not the same person and trust has been broken, so I need to think before making any decisions. 

Honestly, I think it is too soon to come home.  I don't want him to just come back like nothing ever happened.  I think he still needs to live elsewhere, and we can try dating and see how it goes.  I don't want to have false starts with this thing.  I also think if we were to move forward, I would want to have him sign a post nuptial agreement. I feel like I need that type of security.    These are some of my initial thoughts which I haven't shared with him yet. 

It is so weird; things are changing in 24 hours and then they can change back again.  I don't want to get sucked into the stay/go cycle.  I'll keep you posted family! xo

[xyzcf]

You are welcome. We all certainly have good information to share with one another..having learned the hard way.

OK....it is hard not to be somewhat "excited" (not sure that is the right word) about his disclosure to you.

I think RCR's husband made about 7 attempts  and eventually he did return....I believe that he did not live with her for about a year.

If your husband truly wants to come home, I am not convinced of the time frame necessary before the time is "right" and if he is truly sincere, he will respect that you need time now to heal.

Continue to watch out for yourself and see what unfolds. You understand his "crisis"and what could happen...going into this with your eyes wide open will allow you to assess what you need to rebuild your marriage.

I had to understand clearly that the old marriage was gone...took me a long time to really accept that.

Keep us posted!

[Treasur]

Well, that’s a plot twist, right? How wise of you to take time to reflect before jumping into action one way or the other.

I have no advice at all bc your situation is so far from my own experience. I wonder if you might find it helpful to re-read some of RCR’s writings about returns, false or otherwise, or to reach out to others by PM who have had similar experience of returning spouses.

I don’t know what your h said to you about his ‘reasons’ or what he is asking of you now. Or indeed what you feel about what he said/did. From reading other stories here, it does seem that they do not return in one bound magically ‘fixed’, that it is a gradual up and down internal process that is not much influenced by the LBS other than letting the reconnection door be open or shut firmly.. I say this to relieve any burden you might feel on judging the ‘right’ time or ‘perfect” conditions bc i’m not sure there is one as such from others’ experiences shared here. And also to temper your expectations of a straight line vs a stop/start that you (reasonably) don’t  much fancy. Again from stories here, I think the reasons why they want to return are not initially as clean, clear or whole-hearted as one might wish....the simplest truth is that their ‘greener grass’ turned out not to feel so green I suspect. And i’d guess that this doesn’t feel quite enough perhaps from your POV.....yet where he is now may not be where things stay.....again anecdotally, reconnection is a real thing, takes time and is not the same as reconciliation.

So, hey ho, seems like you might be paddling along a slightly different creek.....
And you’ll still need your own boat.
Putting emotions to one side - ha ha - I guess you know now, which you probably did not know before, that in the right set of circumstances, your h can fixate on a young woman and up and leave. And his doing so had/has significant collateral effects for you and your son. So I guess you are thinking about ways to manage risk? Or how much risk you are prepared to take? What would make you feel safe enough to take any risk at all?

Fwiw one of the big markers from the cheap seats here is what I call the Me-Me scale. Reading stories of other returns, the level of entitlement - that flavour of ‘well it was really your fault but i’ve decided to give you another chance as a spouse if you do x or y’ - does seem to be a red flag. How Me-Me ish is your h being? And what is he actually proposing or asking of you and your son as a first step? How does HE want to resolve the mess that HIS choices created? Does he know? Or does he just want to glide back and for you to make it all lovely and tidy again?

Your h made some choices that changed your marital and family landscape. He may regret doing so now, which is nicer than him not, but of course it still happened. So now you are both in new and rather uncertain territory. It’s ok to say idk, not now, not like this, not yet....or indeed no.

There are not many reconnections or reconciliations here, as you know. Often there is just too much time and too much damage. But there are some and you are not alone in trying to figure out this kind of new creek. We will support you whatever you choose and I hope that others come along who have more useful experience or advice than I have.

[UrsaMajor]

My only additional input to his sudden "change of heart" is that talk is cheap....

Consistent actions and conscious planning over time are what counts.

[thissucks7788]

Thank you xyzcf, Treaur and UrsaMajor.  You all speak wise words.  Honestly, I'm scared.  I mean practically 5 minutes before I am collecting D paperwork and then this happened. Don't get me wrong, I am grateful, but I'm scared to open myself up again.  As Treasur points out, he has it in him to pick up and leave for someone else (an extremely young someone else).  It's funny-- almost 6 months ago my life changed it felt like in one second. I thought I was a happily married woman to my "rock" who would always be there for me.  Then in one night, it was over.  It felt almost like the reverse yesterday. Once again, no build up, no real clues just a switch.

Regarding Me-Me scale (I love the name!)  he didn't blame me at all.  He actually hasn't throughout (he never monstered).  He claims that he loved me the whole time but a flood of emotions for this other "woman" was very powerful.  He actually showed me with an air graph that our love was high and steady but with her it was a huge up arrow (and he said like an infatuation) but after he left...she let her veil drop (according to him) and the line on the graph went down. (As we all know-- limerence) He said the way I handled it throughout this was very attractive.  Meaning he thought I would be more "attitudey" but he said every text, interaction was done so well that it showed him again what a good person I am and how much he missed me.  Then all the love stuff and how this was like a near death experience to show him what life would be without me. Said he's wanted to come back since June but needed to make sure.  So yes, great he realized but massive damage has been done.  I have been mourning him and our marriage for months.  I felt abandoned and discarded and that just can't change overnight. I don't trust him.  Like you guys said --- that's great, but it happened, and we can't sweep it under the rug.

Also-- and here is the MLC portion--he said he didn't have a lot of confidence with women when he was young and now with his confidence, he felt like he could "get" any woman. But, as it turns out he doesn't want any other woman.  (Enter Treasur analysis-- the grass wasn't greener). So just another aspect.

So yes, I still have love for him but not trust in him.  Like UrsaMajor said I need to see consistent ACTIONS. I don't want to reconcile until we reconnect first. I am formulating my thoughts and plans on how I can try this in a way that feels safe and comfortable for me.   Xyzcf and Tresur- I am going to look at the RCR videos on this topic as suggested. 

So that is how it all went down. The past 6 months have been so crazy, I don't know if I'm coming or going. I'm married, I'm divorcing...I'm crying/I'm reconnecting.  I feel like I've been living in the Twilight Zone.

[Tsun]

TS, wow! That is a plot twist for sure!

What I was wondering after reading your description of your conversation, did he show any insight into what this experience has been like for you and your son? Does he realize the massive damage he has done? Does he know how much you've grown and changed these last few months? And finally, did he show remorse (beyond describing what he could have lost)? I am asking because your descriptions of what he said still seemed to be very much about him and how he feels/felt.

[xyzcf]

As difficult as it is for our hearts to understand (although our heads can sometimes) MLC is not about our marriage or I suspect, not about the love they have for us, it's not about their affair and so perhaps it requires a different way of viewing what can be done to reconnect, reconcile and perhaps build a better marriage.

MLC is an identity crisis often coupled with massive depression and it's possible that there will still be work that needs to be done for a long time after their wanting to come back home.

Heartsblessing wrote "where there is love, there is hope". A scripture reading that is very often read at weddings is "love is patient, love is kind....Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."

This is truly hard stuff and there is great risk in keeping a door open for them while they continue their crisis but the only thing that matters really is what you want..and how you feel about him.

I personally know several couples who have reconciled, their marriages are "different" but many have told me they are better than they were before.

You are watching...I don't know that he could presently give you everything you need, and perhaps our healing really means we grow through this experience regardless of whether or not we ever get those apologizes.

I agree with Ursa...watch and  see what his actions are and if he takes off again you once again have given everything you can to this relationship or you see whether he turns back again...because often it takes more than one try on their part.

Can you imagine how much it takes to come back and face us? Especially as we have grown stronger and more resilient? Especially as you have done, continue to treat them with a kindness that few people feel they deserve?

There are not any guarantees, life as we know changes in a flash and no way to predict which MLCers will manage to get through their tunnel and which will not.

In the end, you get to decide whether you want this man or not and what it might take to make it right for you and your family.