[Reinventing]

but I never viewed my MLC as toxic per se. I view him as a broken hurt child that is just lost ....and while I might not be able to influence this child into repairing itself, I can be there and of comfort to the child.

Apologies, Schratz66, wishing the toxic person well, well away from me, was a general statement and not necessarily about MLC.

Sharing that way of thinking about toxic people was more about those people some  encounter at work or other places. Xyzcf's peom that included language about wishing them well reminded me of adding that extra part of "well away from me" that can be applied in some situations in life.

[xyzcf]

There has been a great deal of introspection and hard work going on  A fine balance of discovering who you are and who you want to be, understanding why you respond in certain ways, bravery for not running away from therapy, plans with your daughter and a spa visit (I get my daughter, high tea, spa weekend in May when I visit her for mother's day)....and a technique to work with to unwind your beliefs about yourself...I would say a pretty good week.

Progress forward, inch by inch and sometimes we slip back. My therapist suggested that my journey is like a slinky and that there will be times I would feel like I had lost progress and I'd unroll backwards...but.....I would never go back as far as I had been.....and then I'd reverse the direction and start moving forward again.

The "kisses" he sends......what are we supposed to make of this?  It's so bizarre but then so much of what they do is bizarre....and perhaps we think too much about what those xx's mean...but still, they touch my heart when he uses them in texts or cards.....and I respond back in kind...why not? I have nothing to lose.

All this "thinking" is tiring. Do you do any yoga or meditation? I find yoga helps to clear everything from my head that has been swirling around and adding up making me sluggish.

Doing well Schratz!!

[Schratz66]

Thank you Reinventing and XYZ...

I used to do some yoga before hip surgery but I am not able to move quite the same yet but I do try some meditation some times.

I need to calm my mind so today I am just journaling to work through some stuff without reaching out to him.

Apparently one of the issues I need to work through is that I have anxious attachment style and he is an avoidant...and while I normally do not like labels .....I do have to admit that I am always anxious when I respond ....and then I think back to my childhood and it was the same because you never knew how my father would react to anything and so you kept trying and waiting......
So somehow I managed to survive this roller coaster for 5 1/2 years, I got off the floor and just kept going.....now having to wait 5 weeks is becoming torture....how did I manage 5 years...lol......probably because I had no choice but to somehow manage.
My mind and body right now is in such a high alert mode and I am terrified on all fronts. No, nothing has changed, except his more loving tone in his messages...he still immediately replies. I have not lost anything else, nothing is different and yet .....it almost feels like I will live or die in March....like getting a gun with 1 bullet and you don't know which chamber it is in......
I do not want to let him know that I am so fragile and scared because it is my issue and not his. Logically I am fully aware that I will be okay either way....but the 'what if'  are monkey braining me to no end.

[xyzcf]

I am more convinced than ever that mind/body work done regularly is very helpful. The problem is there are lots of fitness centers with yoga classes but they don't watch each individual or help to modify poses to be comfortable. There are some other practices I like, restorative yoga and yoga nidra. In restorative yoga, you use blankets, straps, bolsters, pillows, blocks to relax into a comfortable posture. Yoga nidra, you just lie in a comfortable position and listen, trying not to fall asleep.You can find yoga nidra exercises on the internet..just listn to them for 20 min regularly and they will help to calm the nervous system.

There are also chair yoga classes that can be very helpful until you are able to do more movement style classes.
You may be able to find a yoga studio with a teacher who is qualified to use yoga therapeutically. Ok, off my yoga bandwagon..

like getting a gun with 1 bullet and you don't know which chamber it is in......

this is a function of your amygdala, the reptilian part of the brain...developed to protect us, I have mentioned before it really doesn't know how to differentiate between the degree of a "threat"...so a lion with it's mouth opened ready to bite you arouses the same response as your partner eating dinner with his mouth open.....

It's being off balance by his actions that took me a very long time to work through and the fact that we do still care about them and would like them to come back into our lives....but there is no real ability to dialogue with them, to explain that setting a date in 5 weeks just doesn't work. It isn't what you want..because if he wanted to return, this probably isn't the way he would do it...however, who knows really what the process will be...I am continually astonished at how things work out.

The thing is, we don't get to speak our truth...we can only watch and witness what they do...well some might say we can speak up, but I don't think it is very helpful because unless he responded back with some feeling and understanding, then I am left upset again.....this is not the way it is with any other person in my life...it's just what I have learned as I navigated how I would relate to him.....

I think you have your daughter's girl's weekend coming up....enjoy that time with her!

[Treasur]

Brave of you, 66, to be so honest here about that feeling.
I remember it (although I rarely experience it now) and I understand how absolutely awful a feeling it is.
Wise of you too to get that this is a ‘you’ thing not a ‘him’ thing even if he/the situation acts as a trigger.

Have you read ‘The Body Keeps the Score’ by Bessel van der Kolk? (There are also some YouTube videos around of him talking about his work if big reading is tricky)
The heart of his point is that we don’t experience trauma in our heads as we might think we do but in our bodies. (And it doesn’t matter what or when the trauma is, your body does it’s thing anyway - what matters are the symptoms you experience bc they tell you that your nervous system is on high alert) I used to call it the difference between fear and Fear.....if you’ve felt it, you get it, right? Regardless of what your head says, part of your brain thinks you are living surrounded by tigers and it sends signals to your body. And your body doesn’t know any different so it’s as real to your body as if there were real tigers. Xyzcf and me are on the same page I think with our experience of something similar.

Why does this matter? Bc the way in is also the way out.
You need to learn to teach your body to feel safe, to create a different feedback loop. The quickest way I found to do it is through something called box breathing https://www.webmd.com/balance/what-is-box-breathing, but there are other things like slow yoga, some kinds of exercise and some kinds of NLP  etc that help. Have you talked to your therapist about some tips and tricks?

PS it’s ok to start really small....the Fear is in the moment and so is the way to turn the dial down....we all learn in little baby steps how to do what works for us

PPS when I was really in the long grass, I could not do meditation or yoga. Not sure I can describe it but being physically still was too much for me at the time and silence was too noisy if that makes sense.  I could later but not for a while. Saw this article and thought it might be helpful for you or others https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/feb/09/the-stress-secret-12-ways-to-meditate-without-actually-meditating

[Schratz66]

Oh my goodness....XY and Treasure....you truly are my life vest right at this time.

And I agree with both of you that the mind and the body are so closely aligned. I could not feel any less terrified if it was a room full of tigers and yet I know this is only in my mind but my mind truly thinks that my life is in danger. And while it is not my actual life - it is my sanity and my peace and these days I am really really feeling crazy...thankfully I am leaving tomorrow for my daughters and once I am back I have a therapy session lined up.

Treasu...I will check out the book and the box breathing and XY - thank you for the different Yoga to look into...I really appreciate it.

I have been thinking of Treasur almost daily and remind myself to not use negative words when talking about myself. Which is hard because I truly feel like there is something wrong with me for letting one person out of a billion control my mind and emotions like that. But, there is nothing wrong with me, it is just that it is the old child hood patterns popping up and I am simply a frightened little bird that has no idea if that human is approaching is dangerous or if it will get rescued. And just as I type this word 'rescued' ...I wonder why am I using that word......because that is truly how I feel....like I need rescued....except I know that only I can rescue myself and I cannot look at a drowning person to be my rescuer.

Unfortunately since he has been so easy to message with - I did too much of it...nothing lengthy or intricate because I know he still can only digest small words and small messages but I reached out way too much to somehow calm me down. He did reply for most of it and he tried to be patient, but the truth is...he cannot help me feel calmer or more in control......so today I contacted my physician to see if we can switch up my anti depressant to something else or do an add on to top the crying and the obsessing and the feeling crazy. I also promised myself to not reach out again. If he remembers March great and if he does not I will not remind him. If I have to sit on my hands to not type, I will do that......

I started EFT tapping again....and I force myself out into nature as that always calms me down and amazes me how nature functions without any fear, concerns or overthinking by just being. A bird is just a bird doing what birds do...there is no overthinking, there is no need for validation, there is no rush for anything - they just are until they aren't.

This is the most disheveled and out of control I have felt in a long, long time....probably since the first few months after BD......I need to put more focus on GAL again - even though right now being around others seems so exhausting to me

[Schratz66]

Just needing to journal .....I just realized that if he was drowning and I'd swim out to save him, I would rather drown with him than let him go and save myself. And that right there is the scariest thing I ever admitted to myself. I do not want o harm myself and I will not do that to my D, but I am not sure life without him in it is worth it. These last couple of weeks with frequent contact just made that very apparent to me and I know it is my issues and they have always been there. Truly the only time I ever enjoyed life was with him. I have done everything one is supposed to....exercise, get on meds, therapy, learn about child hood trauma, try to heal the inner child, try to be in the present only, do a gratitude journal each day, meditate, try new things...I have tried it all ....I do not want him to have this much power over me. I surrendered to God on my knees and begged him for help and I am not sure he hears me.

Sorry - this is just a very emotional journal entry and I will be ok....

[xyzcf]

I know that the time that we had together was a really wonderful time of my life. Together, we were a great team, on the same page, loved many of the same activities and I felt safe and totally loved by him. That time of my life is over now.

A couple of years ago, when I felt stuck, I was not able to "feel" joy. I knew what joy felt like but I couldn't feel it and fortunately a very good therapist and I worked at finding me again...many many sessions and over a period of about 1 1/2 years.....

I do have contact with him. I just watched Superbowl with him and we'll be spending a week with our daughter together soon. I am amazed at how we still make a "good team"......how comfortable I am and yes, how I feel more normal when we are together than any other time.......but he wants something different.....he has a complete life as do I....so I have come to a place of peace.

I don't have the childhood issues that many have, the only trauma in my life was the breakup of our marriage....and I understand that although it was a wonderful time of my life...that time is over.....

I do not know what will break through for you...perhaps getting a change in medications will help. You sound very much in a state of fight/flight..his contact is shaking you up a great deal and you can feel it and it is taking it's toil on you.

Regardless of how much we loved them, or how happy they made us.....we are more important than any one person in our lives. Even if we feel "sadness"....finding the parts in us that feel "joy" will bring us back to a place of ease....at least it did for me.

I surrendered to God on my knees and begged him for help and I am not sure he hears me.

God hears us Schwartz. Of that I am 100% certain. The problem is that others may not hear God or deny what God is asking of them...

You have been feeling shaky for quite some time now, his contact has done something that doesn't feel very good....perhaps getting to the root of why will help you eventually break loose, rediscovering Schwartz and all the good that is within you.

Keep writing it out. Keep looking for what helps to relieve those horrible feelings, even for just a few minutes at a time..those minutes add up to hours and the hours add up to days.

I hope it happens for you..the freedom to be ok, whether you know about him or not, whether he contacts you are not..letting go of what once was and becoming aware of what is and can be.

[Treasur]

Just needing to journal .....I just realized that if he was drowning and I'd swim out to save him, I would rather drown with him than let him go and save myself. And that right there is the scariest thing I ever admitted to myself. I do not want o harm myself and I will not do that to my D, but I am not sure life without him in it is worth it. These last couple of weeks with frequent contact just made that very apparent to me and I know it is my issues and they have always been there. Truly the only time I ever enjoyed life was with him. I have done everything one is supposed to....exercise, get on meds, therapy, learn about child hood trauma, try to heal the inner child, try to be in the present only, do a gratitude journal each day, meditate, try new things...I have tried it all ....I do not want him to have this much power over me. I surrendered to God on my knees and begged him for help and I am not sure he hears me.

Sorry - this is just a very emotional journal entry and I will be ok....

We know you will be. We believe in you.

At the same time, just as xyzcf said, I want you to be open-minded to the possibility that you may not always feel how you feel now. I’m not saying you won’t or even asking you to believe that you won’t....just to try to accept that you don’t know yet. And that this means you have to stick around for longer to see if you might.

Like xyzcf said, I too had a very long time of being unable to feel much, certainly Joy was absent. And tbh most things hurt; it felt almost impossible to take pleasure in anything much without my three most loved ones. It wasn’t that I wanted to die exactly....it was more that I didn’t care much if I did or not....and I lived with that for quite a few years. An online friend asked me to do the same as I am asking you....to accept that I didn’t know yet. Imho that is an act of deep faith, real faith, to trust that it might feel different when there is no way of knowing for sure that it will.

I remember recently hearing a psychiatrist say that she feels the opposite of depression is not happiness, it is vitality. Literally, one’s life force returning. And that seems to happen in little whispers more than big shouts imho. Or at least that was my experience. Keep doing what you are doing. And, if you are not sure what to do on any given day, do something that whispers life force to you.....watch children play, look at tiny bulbs breaking the soil, birds waking up, the smell of spring or candy floss or really good coffee, the sound of a snoring content dog or a purring cat. It doesn’t matter what it is....whatever feels like ‘life energy’ to you, do a few minutes of that.

And do not feel ashamed or alone....bc the only reason xyzcf and me are saying what we are saying is bc we have stumbled along in your shoes. We know how hard it is to walk hour by hour, day after day, in those shoes. So you can’t beat yourself up unless you are going to beat us up too 

[Schratz66]

Well, I had a fabulous time with D as always.....we watched a star is born and of course I cried like a baby because I did not realize that the main character was a raging alcoholic and it was too close to home because even my D said that it's him....and I am truly afraid that it will end similar for him.......after the much needed daughter time I went to my therapist and we had a good session on survival strategies that might no longer be useful to me and how to work on me to fill myself up with self love for him to no longer have that power over me. Of course all of this takes time....there is that word again.....sigh........

And while MLC never monstered - and I don't think he consciously is cruel but this stringing along for 6 years is pretty darn cruel, but then again I could not have been strung along if I was not a willing participant. And again, I am not someone that would allow anyone else to treat me this way and yet here I am.......

Rereading the few lines I just wrote....wow......I am basically blaming myself for allowing it to go on before blaming him for being $h!tety. I honestly would rather get mad at myself for not having enough self love rather than calling him out. So much work to be done...lol.....