[KayDee]

It helped me to realise that my H's actions weren't about me. They are enacted in the context of his newly formed and complete self-centeredness. I can guess why he is like this, but it doesn't matter so much, because the effect on me is still the same. For me, I'm not sure it's indifference - I used previously the analogy of a stage light that only encircles the actor - he is not able to 'see' beyond his own needs and pain at the moment. If/when, he is able to step outside his stage light, when he is no longer self-centered (i.e when I, or those close to me no longer exclaim 'it's still all about him!'  ) then I will take that as a sign that something has shifted. If I still care to observe, that is.

Funny, as this thread is called 'it's not you, it's me' 

[WHY]

It helped me to realise that my H's actions weren't about me. They are enacted in the context of his newly formed and complete self-centeredness. I can guess why he is like this, but it doesn't matter so much, because the effect on me is still the same. For me, I'm not sure it's indifference - I used previously the analogy of a stage light that only encircles the actor - he is not able to 'see' beyond his own needs and pain at the moment. If/when, he is able to step outside his stage light, when he is no longer self-centered (i.e when I, or those close to me no longer exclaim 'it's still all about him!'  ) then I will take that as a sign that something has shifted. If I still care to observe, that is.

Funny, as this thread is called 'it's not you, it's me' 

Great analogy.  Thanks Kay

[Acorn]

Wishing you contentment and quiet joy in 2024!

Reinventing asked interesting questions some time ago.  Marvin, I hope you don’t mind that I go back to these questions and try to give my POV. 

How do we position the weird similarities in our experiences and yet acknowledge that the MLCer is a separate, autonomous, adult human being?

Re: ‘weird similarities in our experiences’

 Nas made a pithy observation and I couldn’t agree more:

We’re all just human.

Human behavior is often very predictable even in those situations where we never could have predicted it.

Re ‘yet acknowledge that the MLCer is a separate, autonomous, adult human being’

I don’t think we have any choice but acknowledge this incontrovertible fact.

To think otherwise — ‘MLCer is not a separate, autonomous, adult human being’ — is incomprehensible.  We have no right or power to diminish the personhood of another adult. 

I do see it might be beneficial if we can turn the lens around to LBS — LBS should recognize and wholly embrace that he/she is a separate autonomous adult human being, apart from others, for example, MLCer.

….

Reinventing wrote:

The pressures of arriving at midlife and viewing the inevitable end brings to the fore parts of a MLCer that previously were hidden.

It is my view that there are aspects in all of us we didn’t even know existed until they pop up when we are faced with drastic changes and challenges in our circumstances, such as identity crisis at midlife or LBS at BD.  Very human, very understandable. 

Why lie, cheat, and come up with ridiculous reasons for doing this? Why blame the LBS and abandon children?

Re; why lie and cheat

I cannot read other’s minds as to the whys so I’m unable to make general comments.   

However, I can share how H very simply explained it: he didn’t want unpleasant reckoning of his wrong deeds.  As simple as that.  Yes, again, very human.

Re: ridiculous reasons:

It took me a long time to see the big picture of those reasons, rather than focussing on the absurdity of each one.   Before I understood what his overarching theme was, I wrote about his ‘ridiculous’ reasons in an arrogant, snarky and dismissive way on my old threads.  I would take them back if I could…

Re: turning away from me, our children, his FOO and friends, the community and everyone and everything associated with his life before his crisis:

He had this inexplicable primal urge to leave behind everything of his past, and said ‘you are part of that past.’

Why do some re-suppress these parts of themselves and reconcile?

I obvisouly cannot comment on behalf of other reconciled couples or make general comments.    Again, I’m willing to share our sample of one.

Through many conversations I’ve had with my husband, we would like to think that we have become more self aware, gained insight into what unsavoury deeds and reactions we are capable of, the importance of self control, communicating our needs and misgivings clearly and in timely manner and not let them  fester, etc. 

H and I need to be on guard against the worst parts of ourselves and constantly call upon the better angels of our nature.  We hope we stay the course. 
 

[Nas]

Through many conversations I’ve had with my husband, we would like to think that we have become more self aware, gained insight into what unsavoury deeds and reactions we are capable of, the importance of self control, communicating our needs and misgivings clearly and in timely manner and not let them  fester, etc. 

Love this and just want to add especially to newbies that you don’t need to wait for a reconciliation to focus on these things. Acorn has provided a perfect example of an important part of the oft repeated phrase “doing the work.” These things are important for our relationship with ourselves first and foremost, and then we can show up authentically in our relationships with others.

[amazinglove]

thank you Acorn for that brilliant reply and KayDee for the stagelight analogy! so helpful!

[FrenchHusband]

Great post Acorn and all other participants to the discussion. Thank you very much to give this simple and human explanation regarding the actions of people under MLC. It helps to understand and then to focus on oneself.
Working on oneself to improve the relationships with other people is key for all LBSs from my POV : I totally agree with Nas.

[marvin4242]

Hello all, that was an interesting set of posts and views (thank you everyone for sharing).

There is only one reason I wanted to post something today. I am now almost exactly at the 7 year mark from the first official BD which came out of nowhere. If you have been following my thread here (most of my observations and updates were in another site and devolved into an almost surreal attack and my leaving/deleting all my posts) you probably know that I "moved on" around 5.5 years ago around BD3 I believe (I honestly don't even remember anymore nor care). But I am in the exception group where my W is still in the house a lot of times (and I am not when she comes home), we do keep in contact and it ranges from distant to daily conversations as if nothing has happened. I hold no desire, hope or path to reconciling, but I also wish her the best and want her to find her way to happiness. I have no resentment, anger only memories of all of years together, still some deep moments of loss and sorrow over what was lost, but complete clarity that I have NO INTEREST in any relationship with my W in any capacity.

I am firmly in the camp that what we call MLC is a major psychological event, something that was rooted way in the past, not treated until a very significant fracture occurs. I do not believe in any timelines nor that this is just an even that requires "time." I believe in the opposite, this is like a building falling down, time will not restore anything. If it was to be rebuilt it would require the willingness and great deal of effort, and few MLCers seem to have the skills to do it (in fact if they did they would have done it before the building fell down).

So my thought for today is this: if you are early in this journey (say first 2 years) I think it is absolutely normal to try to "understand" and "fix" and want the old life back. Yes you will hear that that life ended at or before BD1. But its one thing to hear it, another to have to let the consequences of that true resonate and shape your life. That part takes time and comes in many many layers.

But when you have stabilized maybe ask yourself this: what kind of odds would you require if someone could "predict" some kind of reconciliation in let's say seven years (a number that I believe randomly is thrown around a lot). Would you be willing to take a chance at waiting 7 years of the odds were 1 in 100? 10 in 100? 50/50? And how would you feel if waited for seven precious years and then discovered that your MLCer is really exactly where they were at BD1, but with some minor tweaks and changes. Maybe the crumbled building has been cleaned up a bit and has a nice parking lot to torture the analog.

So hello from the seven year mark, where my W is just as unhappy, just as anxious, but with new coats of paints and slightly different games than when she started.

[MadLuv]

True Marvin. I think if you have been through multiple BD’s and a live in and live out MLCer with time like you said ( specially after year2) you do come to more realization of the situation. I believe in the crisis, but not timelines or even stages as each MLCer has their own FOO that created their crisis. They make bad choices and if they have seen how they have hurt you and choose to hurt you again ( mutli BD’s) well, that is a bit diabolical in my mind.  So, I do think you have to look at how much can you forgive.

Can you trust someone capable of this?  The longer it goes the harder the repair.  The most pain I have felt besides  the discard of myself and more so our kids and grandson comes from the fact the person I knew and built a life for 30 plus years will never be again who I loved. Not ever. I will never see him the same. Not if he did a national broadcast on TV apologizing and  begging for forgiveness. I could never have nor could I still do that to someone.( and we are all  thrown into our crisis ) So how could you rebuild a life with someone who did it to you?  It would be hard. We have seen it, but it is rare!

[Treasur]

I still remember the point - pre divorce but about 2 years in about - when it suddenly struck me that I had already lost what I had wanted so much to not lose. Regardless of what I or my then h did or did not do. That I had deeply valued a relationship in which I felt unthinkingly safe and appreciated, even treasured lol, and one that had decades of shared history. Whether with a ‘recovered’ version of my h, or indeed a new relationship with someone else, I could not have those things back. And tbh at that time I could have thrown a cat in a room of random male strangers and probably found someone who would have been more kind and respectful to me than my h was, so a poor bet! I could not get what I had back. I could not look at him, me, the world or our relationship in the way I used to. I could only have something different. I found that realisation profoundly sad and quite helpful at the same time.

[MadLuv]

Exactly, you cant ever get how you saw them back. That person is lost forever, no matter what happens. It is such a sad realization.  Whether they were or weren’t that person doesn’t matter much in the place we are now. They aren‘t that person and will never be. Irregardless of it is their fault or not.