[Treasur]

Well, it sounds as if you are fine, Marvin, and that you have been able to meet the goal I think you set for yourself of being some kind of friend without being overly embroiled.

I wonder what’s in Colorado? Odd time of year to relocate there I’d think. Wasn’t she living in Italy before? OM bitten the dust? New OM with free snowshoes lol? Who knows. But as long as all it cost you was a few old pots and pans, that sounds fine. It is her life and path to plow, after all and you sound happily busy with your own.

[marvin4242]

Thanks Treasur. I think most of us know at this point the answer to "what does it all mean? What has changed?" Answer is it means nothing, nothing has changed, the players may swap, the setting may be changed, but the play remains the same. I am sure OM is still around, but he was never really the issue. Yes, she has been to Italy, Norway, Colorado, NY, home, and who knows where else honestly. I am sure there is just that perfect place that will make things ok.

What should be very clear that even when she can just put herself first (being selfish), be free (she never was captive), be with whoever she wants (friends, OM) nothing really changes.

I can't imagine what it would be like to still have attachment to her well being, or if I had not stopped trying to dance with the crazy within the first year. Or if I had put my life on hold "waiting for them to exit the tunnel."

[marvin4242]

Hello everyone from the edge of year eight of the post MLC life. Hope all of you had a good, fine, or at least tolerable holiday season depending on where you are in your journey.

I have been quietly reading what everyone is sharing, but not posting much as partly I feel there has been so much wisdom shared here by many people over the years that its all here for us to take it in, but when we are ready and willing. And as other always say its a process that is different for all of us. I just like to add that isn't a reason not to be constantly striving to get our footing and let go of the past and try to create a new future, whether its one we imagine, want or even may find desirable. Its not possible to live in the past, only to suffer in it.

The non update is that my MLCer is cycling as always and seems more anxious and a little less well off lately. But I have seen this back and forth for a few years now, so nothing to see. I still hope for her sake that one day something makes her seek real help, but unfortunately I do not see much hope. As I have shared I have come to the same conclusion that many before have come to, that this is not a "journey" or a "process" but a shattering destruction. Some may find a way out, but most will not.

I only say this as it may help people in the early days who are open to the idea decide better how to live, whether they choose to stand or walk away. My life today looks nothing like it did eight years ago. some of it is because I no longer share one with a person I was sharing it with for 23 years ago, but some of it is because I "grew up" more and really internalized what I had always kind of known. Nothing is given, nothing is certain, plans are just something so we can see how we deviate and life flows in ways we can not predict or control. Having gone through the difficult experience of losing someone to this event has only clarified and further pushed me to live with this knowledge. And in a strange way it is more comforting than terrifying.

[MadLuv]

Beautifully said Marvin. 

[Reinventing]

Agree with Madluv,

Well said.

[Atari25]

Hello everyone from the edge of year eight of the post MLC life. Hope all of you had a good, fine, or at least tolerable holiday season depending on where you are in your journey.

I have been quietly reading what everyone is sharing, but not posting much as partly I feel there has been so much wisdom shared here by many people over the years that its all here for us to take it in, but when we are ready and willing. And as other always say its a process that is different for all of us. I just like to add that isn't a reason not to be constantly striving to get our footing and let go of the past and try to create a new future, whether its one we imagine, want or even may find desirable. Its not possible to live in the past, only to suffer in it.

The non update is that my MLCer is cycling as always and seems more anxious and a little less well off lately. But I have seen this back and forth for a few years now, so nothing to see. I still hope for her sake that one day something makes her seek real help, but unfortunately I do not see much hope. As I have shared I have come to the same conclusion that many before have come to, that this is not a "journey" or a "process" but a shattering destruction. Some may find a way out, but most will not.

I only say this as it may help people in the early days who are open to the idea decide better how to live, whether they choose to stand or walk away. My life today looks nothing like it did eight years ago. some of it is because I no longer share one with a person I was sharing it with for 23 years ago, but some of it is because I "grew up" more and really internalized what I had always kind of known. Nothing is given, nothing is certain, plans are just something so we can see how we deviate and life flows in ways we can not predict or control. Having gone through the difficult experience of losing someone to this event has only clarified and further pushed me to live with this knowledge. And in a strange way it is more comforting than terrifying.

I don't believe that most will ever "exit" or change really unless they really hit rock bottom at some point in their lives and even then. They are who they are. I truly feel sad that my beautiful wife may never find true happiness in life. The most truthful thing I think she said the last time saw her was "I'm trying to find happiness".

[marvin4242]

The most truthful thing I think she said the last time saw her was "I'm trying to find happiness".

Happiness in any form (not the fake MLC version) is transitory, contentment and gratitude are more  permanent and something solid. And these can only be found internally and by examining ourselves, they can not be gained by any external factor. It’s something most of us should be striving for whatever our life circumstances are. People who fall into “MLC” seem to not have any or very little understanding of this and substitute external “happy” like an addict who replaces it with chemicals. Neither can fix internal pain and anxiety.

[Atari25]

Happiness in any form (not the fake MLC version) is transitory, contentment and gratitude are more  permanent and something solid. And these can only be found internally and by examining ourselves, they can not be gained by any external factor. It’s something most of us should be striving for whatever our life circumstances are. People who fall into “MLC” seem to not have any or very little understanding of this and substitute external “happy” like an addict who replaces it with chemicals. Neither can fix internal pain and anxiety.

I could not agree more.

[Happylight]

The most truthful thing I think she said the last time saw her was "I'm trying to find happiness".

Happiness in any form (not the fake MLC version) is transitory, contentment and gratitude are more  permanent and something solid. And these can only be found internally and by examining ourselves, they can not be gained by any external factor. It’s something most of us should be striving for whatever our life circumstances are. People who fall into “MLC” seem to not have any or very little understanding of this and substitute external “happy” like an addict who replaces it with chemicals. Neither can fix internal pain and anxiety.

Wow Marvin--8 years!  I think you are very right...I watch the cycles of thinking something is the solution, and then heading downhill again, and it is sad.  Sometimes I can "see" what he thinks the solution is, and other times I can't, but I can tell that there is something.  With each cycle we seem to have an episode of High blood pressure spikes.  I am helpless to do anything, but do worry that he is going to end up having a heart attack or stroke as a result.   All the running gets him nowhere.  I used to pray for a resolution to all of this--and I still do, but more often I pray for peace.  Peace for both of us from this turmoil. 

[marvin4242]

Thank you all for your comments and observations.

I have been noticing something that I thought I would share. As I read the reactions and feelings of people earlier in this process I started to notice something about where I am. Like many others here I went through a lot of stages in the early days in what I wanted to happen. Obviously it started with "this will all go away and we will go back to where we were," to "I will try to be supportive," to "I am living my life and we will see where we end up," to, for me, fully accepting that there really is no realistic chance that my MLCer will be ok. It was easier because by that time I had accepted, separated and had built a life for myself and was no longer in most ways engaged with her ups and down and way past reading any "tea leaves" in her fluctuating behavior.

The part I am now noticing is at various points if you had asked me what I wanted to hear from her the answer would have been different. Obviously early on it would have been words about realization of what was going on (and to be fair she had some painful lucid moments where she would refer to this). A bit later I would have wanted to hear desire for some kind of reconnection. Later on I would have said all I want to hear is an apology for what what she did.

I am now noticing I honestly do not care or would want any of those things. I expect nothing, I want very little and there are no hooks into the past life we shared for 23 years. But the only thing that would be nice, if it ever happened, is simple acknowledgment. Acknowledgment that we did share a great life together for a long time, and that for whatever reason she threw it away. I have no judgement about that action, I understand that it wasn't about me, she was throwing herself away in a lot of ways. And I do not need apology or blame or responsibility. Just simple acknowledgment of a common reality. Not sure what it means but there you are.