[252338133]

children - 2 both ours girl 6 boy 4
Date of Marriage: 27.8.2004
Date/Season of Bomb Drop: 9.8.2014
husband left home on 9.10.2014 I
s there an alienator?: Yes physical affair

Forward to today 7th April 2023.
My ex husband (we are now divorced, he paid a lawyer to write me a letter inviting me to divorce him for adultery, which eventually I did long story) is now married to the woman he was having an affair with (12 years his junior) and they have a son aged 3 going to be 4 in July 2023.

My question is this.  Please bear in mind I have not been standing in the pure sense of this blog in the interim by which I mean, I have not been actively engaging in any conversation he has tried to initiate with me (hardly any - even conversations about our children have been very difficult), but by the same token I have not got into a new relationship myself, mainly because I have had so much to do in the meantime (moving house twice, looking after my primary school aged children more or less full time on my own).  There have been a few opportunities to get into a new relationship for me but I have not pursued them so they went no where.
Apart from that I have not properly followed the recommendations of standing but I have grown in many ways I never thought I would at the start of this.

Anyway.  As we are now 8.5 years since his bomb drop date and moving out of the family home, my question is, if it really was a midlife crisis for him, what are the signs he might be coming out of it (if he is, and bear in mind I don't see or hear from him apart from things my children say to me when they get back from seeing him).  (What I have read indicates male MLC can last up to 10 years and I am assuming the whole 10 years so on paper there is still 1.5 years till that 10 year anniversary)

If this has already been covered in resources on this website apologies and if someone could point me to where I need to look to read up on it I would be very grateful.  thank you

Previous thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9350.0

[252338133]

I should say I have accepted his marriage to his affair partner (mainly because my children have had to interact with her on a regular basis since my ex husband left) I have only met her very fleetingly in the passenger seat of a car in 2014 did not speak to her.
My only hope is that my ex husband stays with her as I feel she is stability for my children, having said that my children are reporting quite a few fights and instability in his marriage to her especially recently.

[xyzcf]

I don't have an answer to your question.

What I have read indicates male MLC can last up to 10 years and I am assuming the whole 10 years so on paper there is still 1.5 years till that 10 year anniversary

I know of a few MLCer's who are past "10 years"...and still seemingly continuing to act is a strange way...certainly different from the person before this hit them. My own BD was over 13 years ago...we are in contact but just superfically.

His life style is not what we had together and it is not what I would want.

I think it is possible that some never resolve the issues that might have caused them to crash ...compartmentalizing their old life, and searching still for something to fill that void.

I am not sure there are any "recommendations of standing "....it's a very individual thing....I personally see this as if he ever wanted to come home, the door would be open for that...but with the need to really work on building something new (which is what I have seen in marriages that seem ok post crisis)....a new relationship...because we are both very different people now.

Thanks for coming with your update. Perhaps other "old timers" will have other things to say.

[OldPilot]

(What I have read indicates male MLC can last up to 10 years and I am assuming the whole 10 years so on paper there is still 1.5 years till that 10 year anniversary)

You can never put a timeline on this.
It might last that long or it might last forever.

The point about the searching is that they are searching for something rather than looking at themselves and trying to change the real issues.
I have seen so many people never resolve their issues, my mother being one of them.
She died before it happened.

So you must do whats best for you.
JMHO

[Songanddance]

my question is, if it really was a midlife crisis for him, what are the signs he might be coming out of it (if he is, and bear in mind I don't see or hear from him apart from things my children say to me when they get back from seeing him).

Is this out of idle curiosity or is this because if he does you and he may reconnect and maybe ultimately reconcile?

From what premise are you asking this question?   
You say that you have accepted his marriage to OW and that you hope he sticks with it because of the children. 
And yet you must be aware that very often MLC 2nd marriages do not always last. Some can last years but that's not necessarily because it's a happy one - it's just that the MLCer hasn't really grown out of the crisis and is permanently stuck in escape or avoid or has come out of the crisis and conscience is not allowing them to do to the second spouse what they did to the first because it means less hassle!

There is no specific guaranteed timeline for the MLCer to emerge from the crisis and there is also no guarantee that if they do emerge that they want the former marriage and spouse.  MLC burns something out of them and if an MLCer decides that the bridges have been burned then there is often very little reconnecting or reconciliation.
The MLCer can also believe that the former spouse wouldn't want them back - sometimes because the LBS has said so and sometimes because their shame is so great they won't even think to ask.

As you have children my advice is keep the door open for lines of communication.  If you get a hint or whiff of reconnection or the MLCer declares that he is no longer happy in his current situation, you have to ask yourself if this is what you truly want.  If not then keep the status quo - if you do then understand it is not going to be easy and there will be a lot of further heartbreak on the way because he has another spouse and a young child.

In short - what purpose does asking your question serve you?  As OP says - focus on your wants and needs and leave the MLCer to it.

[252338133]

Thank you so much Old Pilot and xyz for taking the time to reply I am very grateful.  Everything you say is right.  It might sound like I am "waiting" ("waiting" even 8.5 years on!) but I can honestly say I am not (or rather I don't feel like I am waiting for some radical event or change).

"The point about the searching is that they are searching for something rather than looking at themselves and trying to change the real issues."

Well this is exactly it so far as I can see.

This is the thing I have found most difficult all these years.  I just wake up some mornings and have an overwhelming feeling that I really have zero sense of my ex husband as a human being.  I cannot get any kind of sense of any feelings he might be having (apart from anger and sarcasm towards me).  Where I would anticipate something, anything about a thing a person cared about, I sense none of that from him. 
Just thro away comments he makes to my children about how much money he earns and how important his job is.

Recently my daughter found herself in a real scrape (since exhonarated) which involved being interviewed by the police.  She has since been cleared.  I had to contact ex husband to give him the details in accordance with a court order.  He paid for a very expensive lawyer to represent her.  But when the time came for him to actually see her and (should he have wanted to) and potentially have a conversation with her about it he did not mention it to her, not even once.  She is 14 so you might wonder whether she was going to look to him for some kind of reaction.  He gave none.

Similarly, we have been invited on a church holiday later this summer which would involve switching round dates on the calendar he is due to see my children.  I knew if I asked him to do that he would refuse (from past experience) because (I guess) he always has refused and I can only assume the calendar symbolises some kind of control for him (it never seems to have any consequence or meaning to him explaining his refusal if that makes sense).

The person who invited us said to me "Why don't you tell him its a church holiday in other words its good for the children" I replied that so far as I could see doing anything which is (arguably) nurturing/life affirming/good for his children etc would literally be of no consequence to him so no point in explaining that. (as it is we are still going on the holiday but now just different dates so we don't have to ask him the question).

The hardest thing in this journey is the feeling that there is no human being there on the other side of the person.  The switch is so final and even now years on i still wonder how a human being can switch off feeling so completely and permanently

[252338133]

"Is this out of idle curiosity or is this because if he does you and he may reconnect and maybe ultimately reconcile?"

Songanddance.  I have never really thought about reconciliation.  Mainly because I have almost never got any sense of any kind of self awareness /conscience /self reflection over what the consequences of his actions have been for me and his kids.  Not even now.

The children report that even now when he sees his own family members (and certainly at bomb drop in 2014) he just explained in a very matter of fact, there-is-nothing-more-to-know way "I've always wanted to be with a much much younger partner" as the reason why he left me and his kids. I get that some people might well find the idea of a much much younger or much much older partner something which has a deep importance to them but he did literally offer that fact as explanation in itself for just going with no more elaboration.

I can certainly see there might be a point in the future when he and his wife (he married her shortly after they had a child (boy) who is now approaching 4 years) split up.  My children with my ex husband regularly report disharmony of a nature which feels fundamental to me (for example he tells our two children that his new wife is "selfish" and they have had rows in front of my children about her infidelity against him etc).  But even if they do split up I cannot see how we could ever reconcile even if I wanted to because I have zero transparent information that he has even thought about what happened for us as a result of him leaving.  (eg living and maintaining a very large family home alone for 4 years, divorce, living in temporary accommodation, buying the new home the children and i live in now, all sorts of emotional turmoil which, on a factual level I think he must have been aware of even if he did not acknowledge it to himself). 

He sometimes asks my daughter where various toys he gave her when she was 5 and 6 years old shortly before he left us are.  The answer is that they went to the charity shop long ago (she is 14.... and has changed her pass times and interests dramatically obviously and only retained childhood toys of sentimental value to her).  She says he looks really surprised when she says she no longer has her dolls house etc.  Its bizarre.

[MadLuv]

I think the fact he has mot changed any outward behavior towards you tells you he hasn’t done much work on himself the fact it seems to be an unstable relationship yet he stays may be due to the small child and feeling he can’t leave again? We just never know what is in their heads do we? I agree the hardest thing is that they are like the walking dead. They are alive, but who they were is gone. My XH started showing signs in 2008 and I had a couple BD’s and the last I divorced him and he remarried. We were in heavy communication for a year and then none  for 10 mths and then started back a few months ago and there are moments where he seems to be the old him, but then I find our he has lied about small things for no reason. He doesn't see his kids and that will always be my guide on him.

I do think the MLCer needs a lot of alone time to work through issues without someone putting more in their already confused head. If your XH is in a high conflict marriage he doesn’t have a lot of time to clear that jumbled head.i wish their was a magical lamp with all the answers . The only answers are their actions matching their words and their effort. 

[OffRoad]

Are you maybe looking for even a glimmer of what you thought your husband was? I know that is something that confused me for a long time. I many times wondered if I were the one with the "wrong" xh. Like the guy I fell in love with and married was not the real xh, and what he is now IS the real person that xh was supposed to be. I wouldn't have looked at that guy twice. But then I wonder who WAS  that guy I married? Where did he go?

Let's take your question. "What are the signs he might be coming out of it?" Does it matter? How does it matter? If you see signs he might be coming out of it, what will you do with that information?

Personally, unless my xh showed complete remorse for how his behavior harmed his family, his children and myself and sought to make amends, I'm not going to care what signs might show he is "coming out of it". But that is me and my kids are older.

In what way might seeing "signs" benefit you or your kids? Will it be helpful in some way?

[Treasur]

I’m going to take at face value that you have no investment in wanting any kind of reconnection as you say. You may - and you won’t be alone in this here - feel you would like to hope that he would be a more ‘normal’ parent.
But tbh it sounds as if mostly you are chewing on a kind of residual WTF happened feeling about what was ‘real’ about this person, who they were/are and how you found yourself here.
Which is imho pretty normal for most LBS.

And wondering about ‘signs’ is some kind of answer to some kind of question that, for you, is not quite put away in its’ appropriate box?
Do you know what that question is really about?
If I could tell you with 100% certainty that the answer was yes, or indeed no, (and of course in the spirit of honest disclosure I can’t), what would you have that you don’t have now?

From reading here, it seems different LBS reach different conclusions about what happened as they move forward from what is a life-altering experience. I couldn’t honestly tell you with real certainty even what happened with my former h let alone yours, whether it was a reversion to who he really was, an MLC-type fracturing into something different or whether he will  stay like whatever he became  There are anecdotal stories here of everything from one end to the other and somewhere in between, aren’t there?

What I found helpful was to teach myself to say as honestly as I could ‘I don’t know’, to separate out what I thought might be true or how I inferred x from y vs the facts in so far as I could see them. What I could confidently feel was reality from speculation. Sounds easy but actually it’s trickier than it sounds bc we humans are designed to infer big from small, futures from nows. But it was quite useful as a way of making some kind of peace with what had happened in my life and where that had taken me and my own regrets or unintended consequences of honestly made choices from good intent....and it stopped me looking for ‘signs’ in him and towards looking for ‘signs’ in me that tbh were more useful in my own life.

Again jmo but considering one’s own unanswered questions is part of making some kind of peace in oneself with what happened and how we feel about it and ourselves - and peace imho is a prize in itself. I could not have done most of the things my former h did....it was like a foreign language to me which left me with lots of questions but was also strangely reassuring. I couldn’t get most of it bc it is simply not who I am. Self-evidently he did and could bc he did. Which means there were things I did not know. And I don’t know how long or how much I did not know. And I don’t know who he is on the other side of it all or if that has worked out well for him or was/is transitional. I simply don’t know....with time, I suppose I saw my task as sorting through what I did and didn’t know and finding my own way to live with all the not known if that makes sense? And perhaps trusting that, bc it seems to be how the universe works, that if there was a time when any of that changed, I could adjust my lens accordingly....until then I would just move forward on the bare facts available to me