[MadLuv]

I unfortunately am with DF on my apologies received. When I look at them now they seem more like guilt relief or more avoidance. I’m sorry I’m a terrible person, I’m the worst person I know…. In the end he has just gotten worse in my opinion.  I do think how they apologize and then what happens after tells whether it was a sincere one or not.  I’m glad you got one that feels  sincere.

[titleholder]

TH - I'm glad you got that apology - I think it means a great deal to us LBS as a sanity check - that our reality wasn't skewed - and that the (major) problems in our break up really weren't of our making, or in our control.

Maybe it's a shame that it comes too late for many of us to really make a difference to us. But maybe not, maybe the day after BD wouldn't have made much difference!
You sound like you're in a really good place TH! Really happy for you!

B x

Thank you for the reply B! I also follow your journey and I'm amazed by your grace and the way you're handeling this situation.

I totally agree that the apology is important for the reason you're stating. And sadly I also think you're right that an apology after BD probably wouldn't make a difference.. they are the way they are and if they weren't then we wouldn't be in this situation.

Talking about apologies, I got lots of them after I found out about the OW. My xh was even crying to me while asking for forgiveness. But all those apologies were just words. There was no remorse that came with it. I still got blamed. So for me they meant nothing. It really depends if the apology was sincere or it was just to take control of you. Just my opinion.

Yes those kind of apologies you got DF are more for him then they were for you.. I think that hurts even more, the selfpity they inflict on themself when they are the ones destroying lifes.

I think the apology was sort of sincere but it's only words.. I see some actions lining up with his words but mostly he's still not behaving as a grown-up and taking all the responsibility he should.

I unfortunately am with DF on my apologies received. When I look at them now they seem more like guilt relief or more avoidance. I’m sorry I’m a terrible person, I’m the worst person I know…. In the end he has just gotten worse in my opinion.  I do think how they apologize and then what happens after tells whether it was a sincere one or not.  I’m glad you got one that feels  sincere.

Thanks ML, but I agree let's see how he progresses. We're certainly not there yet.. it's a long, long road with some movement. But I really doubt if he's going to reach the 'end' of the tunnel or he keeps getting stuck.

[FaithWalker]

I'm glad you got that apology TH.  Hopefully his actions moving forward back it up.  Sound like it was pretty heartfelt.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

A few years back, I got the apology from my ex. Never expected it either. In her world she was the victim and I was the ogre. However, it came and it was heartfelt as well.

It didn't mean that we were going to get back together or anything of that magnitude as I was already engaged. However, It was still nice to receive.

It is also good not only for you, but your daughter as well. You want to work with a parent that can admit to their mistakes and treat you as the mother with the respect you deserve. I think that as he grows up "again", you may begin to work with a true adult that put the needs of his daughter over his own and OW as well.

I hope everything else is going as well. for you and your baby. As I was posting on another thread, you can't predict the future. You can influence and makes plans, but to be certain, life is very uncertain. You just live through it and make the best of the circumstances. I think you have done an excellent job of navigating your own experience without him bringing you down.

Keep up the great work and keep posting!

(((Ready)))

[titleholder]

I'm glad you got that apology TH.  Hopefully his actions moving forward back it up.  Sound like it was pretty heartfelt.

Thank you FW. I think it was sincere, so that shows something   We'll see how he moves further!

A few years back, I got the apology from my ex. Never expected it either. In her world she was the victim and I was the ogre. However, it came and it was heartfelt as well.

It didn't mean that we were going to get back together or anything of that magnitude as I was already engaged. However, It was still nice to receive.

Sounds like you and I were in a similar place Ready! I'm also happy that I never asked for an apology but got it on a unexpected moment.

It is also good not only for you, but your daughter as well. You want to work with a parent that can admit to their mistakes and treat you as the mother with the respect you deserve. I think that as he grows up "again", you may begin to work with a true adult that put the needs of his daughter over his own and OW as well.

Yes exactly this! This is for me the key in everything moving forward. I really hope he arrives at that point; for my daughter, for him and also for me.

I think you have done an excellent job of navigating your own experience without him bringing you down.

Thank you Ready for these words, they almost make me cry. It's been such a hard battle and I'm so proud of myself but my god it's not easy.

I see so many of my friends staying in relationships that are not healthy with a lot of trauma, so I'm so proud of myself that I'm chosing myself and moving forward without my xH. I know he's not going to give what me and my D deserve, but it has not been easy following that road and chosing to let go.

[titleholder]

Just when you think there's some actual moving forward, grownup behaviour going on (with apologizing for what happened), we go backwards again.

OW sees my D sometimes. I find that difficult because of the unstable person she is, not because there's another women in my D's life. That's part of the divorce I have to accept and I really wish for my D's sake that in the future my xH finds a stable GF who's willing to invest in my D.

A couple of weekends ago I found out that OW was at my xH's house, I was a bit earlier then usual and when picking up my D and my D asked me to come in and have tea with OW. I was flabbergasted, my xH stated that 'TH doesn't want that' (he knows I don't like OW) and because I didn't expect it, I didn't do it. While driving home I thought that this was not the envirorment I want for my D. If my D wants me to come in and have a cup of tea with OW, I'll do that.

So I texted him that if OW was going to be there in de future if he would let me know so I could come in and have a tea. I texted that I have to accept that she's in his life and my D's life and that I want to make steps forward in creating a safe and healthy space for D.

No response for days. I had to ask him for a response and when he responded I found out that OW has been there before when I pick up my D, but that she hides when I come to the door. I again told him that this was not the envirorment I want to create for my D, that OW hides when I come over. I want to take steps forward, yes it's going to be difficult for all of us, but it's what's necessary. My xH is always welcome to come in for a drink when he picks up my D, also when my boyfriend is there. They get along well and I think my D wants to create that same space at home with her dad and OW for me.

Long story short; OW doesn't want to meet me. She feels like she's the black sheep in this story and doesn't feel like it's the right time to meet me. I stayed really polite but told my xH that this was not thinking in favour of our D. OW chooses to be in my D's life and I'm part of that life, you can not choose the easy parts and leave the difficult parts out (in my opinion). xH defends OW and here we are.. I'm trying to do the right thing and again and again I get the confirmation that with these two people right and grownup options are just not on the menu.

I'm really torn on what to do, but I'm afraid that I that only thing I can do is accept the situation..

[Treasur]

Your daughter is quite small still, and doubtless figuring things out with her own version of trial and error. Imho that’s about reality as much as anything else - please be reassured that in her little head it’s a pimple not a carbuncle. It will pass. Things evolve in life fast when you’re a young human and tbh even for bigger humans things evolve with time, don’t they? What seems important today or impossible today may not feel exactly the same in a year, or five, or ten.

Look at how far you have progressed already.

Sadly, you can only do you, you’re right about that.
Your opinion on what’s best for your daughter can’t be enforced on people who have a different opinion. Neither xh or ow….they have already shown you their take on how central your daughter’s wellbeing is if it conflicts with their own.

And imho I’m not sure that you are obliged to sit down for tea and chat with ow - to be civil and adult, yes, but chummy? Not so much. Ow is not your friend - i’d guess you can throw a boot on a crowded street and be more likely to hit someone who could be a friend!  Unless you have a penchant for disordered people and drama lol….and most of us LBS post BD really don’t bc they are an exhausting distraction from the good stuff of life.

And tbh, it runs the risk of normalising things that are not normal and not ok….if you do bad things that hurt other people, one of the usual consequences of that is that they don’t want to be your friend and come over for tea or a game. That’s as true when you are 3 as it is at 33, right? And a pretty good life lesson even when you are small imho.

Let ow and xh carry on with their own feelings and choices - not your responsibility, not in your control. Let them deal with their own created mess and consequences. Your wishes for your daughter have limits, my friend, bc reality always wins eventually - I’d guess you wouldn’t have picked any of this for her if you’d had the choice, but you didn’t. Model being the sane sensible civil calm parent and let her figure out her own boundaries as long as she is not at any serious immediate risk of harm -  and avoid the sandpit of nonsense that these kinds of folks wallow in. Let ow deal with her own shame and discomfort  Xxx

[titleholder]

Thanks for your reply Treasur, these are some good statements that I'm going to take in and think over.

I stretch myself to the ends an beyond for my D and every time I get the confirmation that this is not happening on the other end of the line with xH and OW. Exactly as what you say, they can't deal with the shame and guilt for what they caused and will chose the easy and avoiding way for themself a hundred times before putting my D first. For now it's just a little blip, but my overthinking mind already knows that with time and aging of my D this probably is going to cause bigger problems. But it's also what you state, it's their mess to figure out, my xH's connection with his own D and what's important in that.

The only thing I can do is be the sane and responsible parent and maybe take a step backward in stretching myself in making things 'right'. They have chosen their path of destruction. I reached an olive branch, they're not taking it and that's just the confirmation of the state of mind they're in.

You're also right, creating an enviroment where I'm pretending that everything is fine and having tea with OW is also not healthy. Her hiding behind the door when I come over also isn't.. But maybe I have to accept that healthy environment isn't going to be there, maybe never. I can at least say (again) I tried?

[Treasur]

You gave it a decent college try, no shame in that 
But imho one can’t talk much sense to stupid or disordered - they don’t see the world or themselves as you do. And again jmo, it is often a waste of good energy to even try - energy that can be better spent baking Halloween cookies or organising a spooky princess outfit for your girl. Or cleaning the bathroom or sorting out your paperwork lol.

I hope other parents will chip in with their experience. But yes, you’re probably overthinking and as my Gran would say, troubling trouble before trouble troubles you. Probably a bit hard-wired to do that as a decent quality mother….my mother still did it when I was 50! Your little one is her own unique person and, whilst you will always provide a safe spot from life storms and a template for how good folks deal with not so good things, you can’t entirely predict or protect her from the storms, can you? But I can tell you, as someone who no longer has parents, the lessons stick and so does that inner sense of a safe place - remarkably sticky actually, much stickier than the storms of life xxx

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

But imho one can’t talk much sense to stupid or disordered - they don’t see the world or themselves as you do.

Great statement. I think you are trying to pull your brisket out of the smoker before it is ready. Smoking a brisket takes time and it is fascinating to watch as it will keep at 150-160 for hours before it breaks and starts to move to a temperature that makes it soft and tender.

I know that you are moving forward and have accepted your new life. However, that doesn't mean your ex and his side piece are prepared to be adults. As you are aware, your h is more about fun and being an adult is not high on his priorities. I don't think he wants to have OW as a new mom for his child. Instead, he prefers to follow the path of least resistance. That is why he doesn't respond to your texts and I am not sold on the strength of their relationship anyway to invest time and energy on someone who will be gone before you know it.

You're also right, creating an enviroment where I'm pretending that everything is fine and having tea with OW is also not healthy. Her hiding behind the door when I come over also isn't.. But maybe I have to accept that healthy environment isn't going to be there, maybe never. I can at least say (again) I tried?

I also don't think that pretend family works either. I have avoided doing things together as a "family" because we are no longer a family and everyone feels awkward. However, there are others who have made it work and it is just fine. Your daughter is young and may benefit from "family" events. My children were older and having dealt with three years of awkwardness did not want to try and be a family anymore. However, your daughter may be different.

I guess in a long winded way, you have shown that you are a great mother and dedicated to your daughter. Trust me, as time passes, she will know and appreciate you for being a parent-not a buddy. Live for her and you and try to avoid getting sucked into any ex drama.

Have an awesome day!

(((Ready)))